On September 11, 2001, I lived in downtown Manhattan near the World Trade Center. After I heard the bang, I was stuck on the phone for several hours reporting from my fire escape for CBC and BBC. And then, as soon as I could, I headed toward the towers, zigzagging round lower Manhattan to evade the police lines and get… return to article
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Reader Comments (44)Page 1 of 1 pagesStatistically speaking:
How many of the US forces would have died if they were not deployed in Iraq (that is, no war took place)?
How many Iraqi’s would have died if Saddam was left in power?
Both of the above refer to the last 18 months or sl. . .
Just curious.
Posted by DoesAnyoneKnow on Sep 14, 2004 at 2:23 PM The best point here is the Swift Boat Veterans. If dumbleyou wants to play dirty, Kerry needs to round up some Air Canada Veterans and take our office back.
Posted by Justin on Sep 14, 2004 at 3:02 PM I was fortunate enough to rate a 3a classification back in 1970 after coming up number 3 in the draft lottery, and I’ll be forever grateful to divine providence that I did’nt have to risk myself for what I considered to be a mistaken cause. Having said that, I find it reprehensible that our Commander in Chief can put all these young individuals at risk for the sake of his rich buddies. His arrogant elitist background gives us some insight to his methodology,but how can a self professed born again christian be such a cowardly hypocrite? I think Jesus is not happy with George W.
Posted by Dr.D on Sep 14, 2004 at 4:57 PM Actually, OBL has never taken credit for 9.11. He’s expressed agreement with it occuring, but hasn’t claimed any involvement.
Posted by JM on Sep 15, 2004 at 4:57 AM He continually refers to himself as “commander-in-chief
I imagine you continually refer to yourself as “Ian,” too, inasmuch as that is who you are. Bush is running on the last four years. Kerry is just running.
Posted by gary on Sep 15, 2004 at 8:24 AM Yeah, running on the last four years of:
Lies
Murder
Surplus eroded
Recession
Unemployment
1000 American soldier deaths
FAILURE to capture those behind 9/11Yeah, something to run on.
Vote this piece of shit “commander in chief” out. And if he is re-elected, I hope someone plugs the fucker.
Posted by Neil on Sep 15, 2004 at 10:43 PM DoesAnyoneKnow,
-- How many of the US forces would have died if they were not deployed in Iraq (that is, no war took place)? --
Uh, probably NONE.
-- How many Iraqi’s would have died if Saddam was left in power? --
Hmm, don’t know. But I Do know how many Iraqi civilians have died with Dubious Dumbya in power:
http://www.iraqbodycount.net/
And I do hope you’re not a Bushie. Because I find it eye-rolling that so many staunch Republicans purport to care about the Iraqi people when they don’t give a hoot about the poor and suffering people in THIS country. If Al Gore had launched an illegal, unnecessary war under the guises of Iraq being an imminent threat and WMD, and then flip-flopped and claimed that the war was to “liberate the Irqai people”, Bushies would be calling for his head on a platter and calling him a murderer of America’s children.
But, oh well, it’s amazing what deficit-contributing tax cuts and bigoted policy agendas will buy from Bushies: mainly, their consciences.
Posted by Kevin Collins on Sep 16, 2004 at 4:56 AM It is so sad that these kinds of articles do not get printed in the mainstream press. But I just watched the DVD “Orwell Rolls in his Grave” about the buying of the media and I understand it a little better. Please keep writing. It is the only thing that keeps me going. And I doubt that the real story of Bush’s guard days is going to be made known. It will be glossed over in the media because they are told what to say and print, period.
Posted by Grace Love on Sep 16, 2004 at 5:42 AM Kevin - Your grasp of mortality statistics is non-existent. Any other (serious) takers? However, I do like the link you sent about Iraqi causalties. It was claimed (mostly by the left, which i heard about endlessly from a Palistian friend of mine) that **millions** of Iraqis were killed in the years spanning 1991-2003. Both from Saddam overtly killing off his own people and the results of sanctions. It appears to me that even if 15,000 Iraqis “civilians” had died (and presumably this includes the numbers killed by the terrorists there, such as al Sadr), it is a safer place to be now than before the war - at least for Iraqis. Not to mention that they - the Iraqi people - now have a shot at controling their own fate. . .
Posted by DoesAnyoneKnow on Sep 16, 2004 at 7:40 AM I wanted to add to Neil’s post above.
Opposing a true unbiased 9-11 investigation of whodoneit.
Attempting to strip protections of the environment.
Lies
Murder
Surplus eroded
Recession
Unemployment
1000 American soldier deaths
FAILURE to capture those behind 9/11You also forgot the quotation marks for the “re-elected”, since he was never elected.
Posted by Steve on Sep 16, 2004 at 7:45 AM True, Steve.
There’s many more failures in just about every aspect of his failed government. I heard the other day a GOP speaker praising his accomplishments with HUD and how it’s becoming the greatest it’s ever been.
My sister works with HUD and says probably 1000 people in her area alone will be let go if he’s re-elected, not to mention how much he’s cut from their budget. The waiting list for housing for homeless families has grown to four years.No, I don’t want anyone to kill him--that’s wrong. I get worked up and pretty pissed off at the complete lack of care he has for this nation and the arrogance he displays when confronted with something as sensitive as a soldier’s death.
Reagan made jokes but not as callous and crass as dubya.No, DoesAnyoneKnow, Iraq is not a safer place now. Before, the civilians knew their enemy and knew what not to do or they knew how to avoid them. Innocent people who never have been or ever will be involved in the political dealings of that nation only had to deal with getting enough to eat.
Now, no one knows from day to day if a car bomb intended for US soldiers will kill them or if the corrupt police will or anyone involved in a group struggling to grab power. Or if one of the many US strikes will kill them.
Yeah, the Iraqi’s have a shot at controlling their own fate--as long as it goes along with the Bush empire and his minions who will never leave because they have so destabilized that region--getting exactly their wish to be able to control it with military force. You saw what happened to Aristide.
This absolute BS justification people have that Iraq is better now does not make up for lying for the reasons to go to war. The ends do not justify the means and this is an impeachable offense this falsely appointed president has committed against the world.
The above mentioned are the reaons 90+% of the world hates Bush.
Posted by Neil on Sep 16, 2004 at 8:05 AM saddam provided the highest standard of living
for iraq in it’s history better than america
look it up
Posted by joe on Sep 16, 2004 at 8:53 AM Whew! First lets try to get over the fact that the election was close, but Bush won. While i believe it is probably that the nutty fringe on the right would be saying the same thing if Gore had been elected, the fact is that the race was close and one candidate had to win. His name was Bush.
Second do you have to be out of touch with reality to use phrases like “his failed government”? While Kerry is an amazingly weak candidate, the fact is that Bush very well may be re-elected. I would think that a president with “a failed government” would be very easy to beat! But perhaps you only trust the voters when they agree with you - otherwise they are merely “brainwashed”?
Finally, it is clear that Bush did NOT lie, he believed there were in fact WMD in Iraq, as did virtually all intelligence agencies. The fact that Saddam was able to deceive the world so well can only be called ironic, especially for him. (Remember Bhagdad Bob telling us how US soldiers were suiciding at the gates of Bhagdad? What ever happened to him, he was very entertaining!)
Joe - yes, Iraq was a paradise before the US attacked and subjugated it for no reason other than greed. Now go outside and play, while the grown ups talk. :)
Posted by DoesAnyoneKnow on Sep 16, 2004 at 9:05 AM It’s mindboggling how many middle class people still continue to support Bush. It is something in their water or just the result of generations of in-breeding? Every time I hear that “America, love it or leave it” mentality, I’m grateful that my grandfather married outside the family and expanded our gene pool. Why can they not SEE what’s going on in this country? Is it beyond their realm of comprehension to even consider that the mainstream media is corrupt and biased? This is the most arrogant, greedy, evil administration I’ve ever witnessed.
Posted by Debbie on Sep 16, 2004 at 9:19 AM Vote for Bush/Cheney Because They’re NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANYTHING THAT HAPPENED!
Vote for Bush/Cheney if you want the draft.
Vote for Bush/Cheney if you want more outsourcing.
Vote for Bush/Cheney if you want war with Iran.
Vote for Bush/Cheney if you want World War III.
90% of the world hates Bush and fears him as the next Mussolini or Hitler. If we legitimately elect him (not possible) then the world will hate Americans which they really haven’t done so far, knowing that the last so-called election ended in a bloodless coup. (They’re more sophisticated about coups than we are. We thought it couldn’t happen here.)
China, the European Union, Russia, India.....all of those nations have more right to MidEast oil than we do. They will NOT sit by and let us try to take the Caspian Basin. As for the treaties we have with these nations? George has set the example of setting treaties aside if one feels like it. George has set the example of pre-emptive invasion if he feels like it.
Bush has made the limits of American military power visible. He has left us naked to our enemies. We no longer have money or men to fight a protracted war. WE CAN BE BEATEN because of Bush policies. That’s what John Wayne George has done for us. Our weaknesses our exposed. Those who think we’re still the world’s only superpower better think again. By treating us as a banana republic, George has made us one.
Posted by aquart on Sep 16, 2004 at 9:54 AM PS
Even if we wanted to fight a protracted war, and drafted enough men for it, we would have to wait for parts FROM OTHER COUNTRIES before we could equip our soldiers because Reagan off-shored our steel and tool and die industries. Our fancy equipment operates with foreign parts. We are no longer self-sufficient in our own defense. In a world war, an embargo would stop us in our tracks.
Of course, we have nukes. But so do China, Russia, India, and the European Union. Still wanna use ‘em?
Posted by aquart on Sep 16, 2004 at 10:03 AM I’m staggered that DoesAnyoneKnow claims that virtually all intelligence agencies believed Iraq had WMD - don’t you check the news outside the USA? Barely anyone I know in the UK thought the claims were plausible. Why did 1 million people march in London ? Because we knew we were being lied to. Why do you think so few western allies supported the war? And those that did, did so against overwhelming public opinion, and are one-by-one being voted out of office. (Howard next, then Blair) It has been proved beyond doubt that UK intelligence were extremely sceptical of the WMD claims - but Blair didn’t want to hear, his decision was already made.
Still, if DoesAnyoneKnow relies on US mainstream media for information about Iraq, their ignorance is understandable. (Though using suicide as a verb is still unforgivable.)
Check Bush’s approval ratings outside the US - where an independent media can do its job - and I think you would be shocked. UK 15%, France 20%, Germany 9%. The world deserves better than Bush.
Posted by LondonCalling on Sep 16, 2004 at 10:44 AM Let us not foget, We do not REALLY have a say who is elected it’s all smoke and mirrors. The elctoral college makes that call. NOT the American people.It’s the exact reason I do not vote...Why should I?? My vote certainly doesn’t count, esp from a state as insignificant as WA.
Do you think this is what Thomas Jefferson and the other founding fathers had in mind? I bet they are rolling in their graves, with Big W.
Posted by Amy on Sep 16, 2004 at 10:55 AM Amy, you don’t vote because of the electoral college?
BECAUSE OF THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE?????
Well, I won’t call you an idiot. I’m sure you have a higher IQ than that.
Do you know what would happen if we DID NOT have the electoral college? You think a popular vote is the best idea since sliced bread?
Well, a national popular vote undivided by states means an election that is cake to steal. How do we know there was fraud in 2000? Because something was wrong in Florida. The votes weren’t fed into one mass. They were kept divided for the electoral count. We knew exactly where to look. We couldn’t stop it because the fix was in, but we knew where to look. The same way we knew there was trouble in Tennessee.
The electoral college is our protection against hysteria. It is also a way to avoid civil war, because the less-populated interior states can’t be railroaded by the immigrant-packed coastal states. Does it sometimes seem that cattle have more votes than people? Yeah. That’s why the number of electoral votes are weighted by population.
You don’t vote because your vote doesn’t count? Did you feel even a little stupid writing that?
Posted by aquart on Sep 16, 2004 at 11:23 AM No, of course I didn’t feel stupid, it’s the truth and it stinks. Popular vote is what the nation was founded on..Not having someone else decide our outcome for us. I do understand the good of checks and balances, but this is not balanced.
Posted by Amy on Sep 16, 2004 at 12:02 PM Doesanyoneknow,
Poor, poor you. Living in your delusional world that somehow this hell that we call Iraq is now BETTER off than before the invasion.
Asking your ever so inane, freeper questions: does anyone know how many Iraqi’s if the US wasn’t there? Yeah we know. A hell of a lot less than now. MOST of the mass graves in Iraq date to the earyl 1990’s, and are there because Dubya’s dad allowed Saddam to go on a killing spree right after the gulf war.
Pappa Bush led the Iraqis to believe the US would support them if they challenged Saddam. They stood up, Bush took a powder, and the Iraqis got killed. Now Dubya is just allowing more Iraqis to get killed.
No one who knows anything about Iraq would ever consider todays situation better than pre-ivasion. Clearly you can’t deal with facts.
Posted by Charlie Horse on Sep 16, 2004 at 12:07 PM Charlie Horse - Thanks for your “thoughts”. They are so very big and important, just like you. But now it is your naptime. LOL. :)
Posted by DoesAnyoneKnow on Sep 16, 2004 at 12:15 PM LondonCalling - It is clear that most of the worlds population was content to allow Saddam to continue to develop WMD and kill off his own people. This is not contentious, and given that the WMD turned out to be mythical (Saddam was nothing if not a great liar!) the wars “popularity” has declined even more (but who doubts that even if WMD were found, the world would be saying much the same things as now?). For an example of how callous the world actually is, just watch how it is reacting to the genocide taking place in Sudan, where we carefully do not disturb its precious sovereignty..
As for the polls on Bushs (or any other presidents) popularity taken outside the US - who cares? For fun, maybe we can take a poll on the popularity of the Queen (you do still have that primative institution there, yes?). :)
Posted by DoesAnyoneKnow on Sep 16, 2004 at 12:27 PM DoesAnyoneKnow
No - the rest of the world was preventing Iraq from developing WMD by a rigorous sanctions regime(shame Halliburton couldn’t comply), and by UN inspections. The rest of the world wanted to wait for the inspectors to finish their task. Interim reports were moving to a conclusion that pre-1991 WMD had been destroyed. Had the inspectors been allowed to continue, we would have discovered Hussein posed no danger to anyone except his own people and perhaps neighbours.
As for the callousness of the rest of the world - the inaction over Darfur is disgraceful. But surely Bush’s attitude to Darfur is only more evidence of the cynicism of his policy in Iraq. It only helps to undermine Bush’s claim that he acted partly to liberate Iraqis (after all his other reasons were proved without foundation).
Your analogy with the Queen is bizarre - her role is purely ceremonial. Nothing she says or does is going to result in loss of life around the world. We, however, will all have to suffer the consequences of Bush’s misguided foreign policy and inaction on global warming. (How many hurricanes does it take before people start to worry about the warming of the oceans?)
Your attitude of “who cares” about the world’s reaction to Bush is typically insular. Doesn’t it matter to you that your President can barely leave the country because he is so unwelcome elsewhere? Perhaps you don’t know - after all your news didn’t cover the 500,000 protestors on the streets of Rome when Bush visited this year. Or the protests in Ireland that meant he had to cancell all his media appearances when he visited there. Don’t you care that he has turned a great country into a rogue nation?
Posted by LondonCalling on Sep 16, 2004 at 1:05 PM Yeah, the UN “process” was working well. Iraqi kids dying in droves from lack of basic foodstuffs and medicine. Inspectors unable to inspect facilities. Which led to the lack of knowledge about WMD. LOL.
As to Bushs (retroactive) claim to have gone to war to liberate Iraqis - that is funny (this dig is directed at Bush, not you)! But regardless of why he made his decision, this is a goal we should all aspire to.
I still think having a royal family is ridiculous and an embarrassment to the UK. How utterly primative. You may think differently.
Perhaps the reason for all the protestors you mention is, at least partially, the high unemployment rate throughout most of Europe? Too many people with too little to do. By the way, what exactly are they protesting? That the US is spending its resources and blood to free a nation? Why did they not protest the atrocities in Iraq before the war - or the atrocities in Sudan now? On the other hand, i DO understand the antiwar protests in the US - we are the ones dying, perhaps in vain, perhaps not. . .
Posted by DoesAnyoneKnow on Sep 16, 2004 at 1:19 PM DoesAnyoneKnow
WE should care about the opinion the rest of the world has of us. I certainly wouldn’t want to be judged for the actions of the idiots in the White House. It should disturb you that a large majority of the world’s population considers Bush the most dangerous man on the planet. We still have to conduct business with the rest of the world. If we want to claim to be the greatest nation on the planet than our leaders must posess the sensibilities and moralty that reflect those of the people of our great nation. By the way, Bush DID lie. He knew full well there were no WMD’s in Iraq. He and Darth Vader (Dick Cheney) were salivating at the opportunity to invade Iraq, for any reason. Richard Clark and Joseph Wilson both attempted to expose them for the lying frauds that they are and, well, we saw the Karl Rove slime machine in action. Exposing Valerie Plame was treasonous and it doesn’t take an astrophysicist to figure who’s office LEAKED that tidbit.
Posted by Debbie on Sep 16, 2004 at 1:37 PM PS
If you REALLY believe that we’re spending resources and the blood of our young to FREE Iraq...well, that’s pretty naive. They saw an opportunity to raid the treasury (Haliburton, Bechtel, etc). Whatever happened to avenging 9-11? Why would freeing the people of Iraq become a higher priority than hunting down the REAL terrorists that murdered 3,000+ at the WTC?
Posted by DEBBIE on Sep 16, 2004 at 2:21 PM Does anyone know?
Since you can’t deal with the facts,I see you have resorted to the standard freeper comeback of attacking the messanger.
I will resort to quoting you, because I couldn’t come up with anything this stupid on my own:
“It is clear that most of the worlds population was content to allow Saddam to continue to develop WMD and kill off his own people”
Again, we have proven that Saddam was NOT developing WMD’s. We know that the WMD’s he used to “kill off his own people” were purchased from pappa Bush and Ronnie the clown. Since those two imposters stepped down, Saddam hasn’t used WMD’s against his own people.
You are an idiot.
Posted by Charlie Horse on Sep 16, 2004 at 4:28 PM Let me be clear, I am not attacking the messenger by calling you an idiot. I am merely making a statement of fact, you are an idiot.
You make “arguments” that have no facts to back them up. On the contrary, all the facts refute your “arguments.” Let me give you some pointers:
1)Saddam got his WMD with approval of Ronnie and papa Bush.
2)Saddam was not part of 9/11.
3)Saddam had no plans to attack the US, and certainly no capability to.
4)Osama was the target. Both baby Bush and you forgot this.
5)The opinion of the world matters. All GREAT leaders know this.
6)The cooperation of the rest of the world is critical to stopping terrorism.
7)Bush has ignored genocide, as other posters noted, to now “fake” that the war in Iraq was somehow “genocide prevention related” cannot even be made by the biggest bold faced liars.
8)We, the world, are MUCH LESS SAFE, thanks to baby Bush and his war.Again, if you want to post something that is fact based, do it. Otherwise go back to the freeper boards, they don’t care about the truth.
Posted by Charlie Horse on Sep 16, 2004 at 5:30 PM To Does Anyone Know:
Here’s the real test of your thesis. Uncle Sam wants you! Sign Up for an Iraq tour of duty. Do something our lame President would never do. If you rely believe that being in Iraq is the right thing to do, go help make Iraq something Saddam was not, and relieve some poor bastard who wishes he were not there. Otherwise, you are just a tin horn.
Posted by David G. Mills on Sep 16, 2004 at 6:36 PM Don’t be too hard on him if he supports the war but won’t serve - he’s just following in the footsteps of his illustrious leader!
Posted by Dan Uhl on Sep 17, 2004 at 2:05 AM I think “Does Anyone know” has slinked off to hide in the Alabama National Guard.
I’m still laughing at his “thesis” that Europeans were protesting “because they didn’t have anything else to do.” I guess the POPE was protesting the war for that reason as well?
Posted by Charlie Horse on Sep 17, 2004 at 4:17 AM The problem is there are millions of “Does Anyone Know’s” in Amerika. Un-informed, ill-mannered, un-willing to sacrifice even a tiny bit of their antiseptic, un-natural cozy little white washed world to do anything to make the world a better place. Know why millions died in the past dozen years in Iraq...the sanctions that prevented from reaching the people necessary medical supplies, equipment to repair water and sewage treatment facilities, depleted uranium weapons used gratuitiously in a “salt the earth” fashion. They didn’t die because of Hussein and the Baath party, they died as a result of U.S. enforced and coerced sanctions. That’s been their plan all along, deplete the healthy population, destroy their will and moral...basically it’s been a twelve plus year seige of the entire country harkening back to medieval times on a larger scale. Is there an island we can banish the moronic “Does Anyone Knows” of this world to?
Posted by solrey on Sep 17, 2004 at 7:25 AM Solrey, you are right. The mass of ignorant people in the US is clearly worrisome. Last week a Newsweek poll showed that 42% of Americans think that Saddam was behind 9/11, and over 30% think that we have found WMD in Iraq.
Then you have to deal with the bloviaters like “Does anyone know” who spew the spin and ignore the real truths of the world.
This election is not about Bush vs. Kerry it is about Bush vs. Democracy. That statement is a real turn off to the “undecideds” in the US. But it is the truth, because it will prove that the lie at all costs Republicans can control government, and then there will be no stopping them.
If Bush wins the US will be finished as the leading Democracy, and the leading military power. We will have become a Kleptocracy, lead by fools, and supported by uniformed ditto heads.
42% think that Saddam was behind 9/11, that is a shameful indictment of the US citizen.
Posted by Charlie Horse on Sep 17, 2004 at 9:25 AM Charlie Horse - You assert that i resort to “personal attacks” (where did i do this to you, exactly?) then rationalize that calling me an idiot is merely a statement of fact? Where i come from, we usually just say that “we disagree” particularly when the facts are in dispute.
I still wonder why the protests are ongoing now, as opposed to before the war. And why the protestors ignore Sudan. . .
But you are right about one thing - these boards are not meeting my need to learn more about the thoughtful left. Which is actually very disappointing to me.
Posted by DoesAnyoneKnow on Sep 17, 2004 at 9:31 AM I think if you re-read your first response to my post you will see.
Your lame assertion that someone has to protest EVERY injustice, in order to protest one injustice is a non-starter.
I made a list of what you can learn from the left.
First, you can make up your own opinion, but you cannot make up your own facts.
The “facts” are not in dispute. Bush lied to us, and to the world. There is no connection between 9/11 and Saddam and there never was.
And your well worn excuse that “you are here to learn about the left” is a common troll response. At least be original.
Posted by Charlie Horse on Sep 17, 2004 at 11:36 AM Charlie Horse wrote: “I think if you re-read your first response to my post you will see.”
I do see! You are talking about your “post” where you referred to my world as being “delusional” and my questions “inane”. Um, what were we talking about again? Can you say irony? :)
It may very well be that there are “trolls” and for that matter that i am one. In my case, i was in fact “trolling” for cogent arguments from the left. Imagine my disappointment, at least with your responses!
But hey, life is too short to fuss at one another. Have a fun weekend! :)
Posted by DoesAnyoneKnow on Sep 17, 2004 at 11:54 AM Where I come, from we can also disagree. But if one of us (you, in this case) is completely ignoring the facts, we call that person an idiot. There is always option B to the idiot theme: LIAR. You are free to choose either.
The facts are that Colin Powel went to the UN to talk about IMMINENT threat and WMD. The facts are that Bush, Cheney, Rummy and the rest harped on these same themes for months. There was NO mention of genocide.
So for you to somehow use Bush excuse #83 for why we invaded Iraq, just won’t be tolerated. We could disagree about whether or not Bush is a liar or an incompetent fool for getting us into Iraq, then we would be dealing with the same fact set. The fact set that represents the truth. The fact set that people all over the world understand. The fact set that the bloviators choose to ignore.
Posted by Charlie Horse on Sep 17, 2004 at 12:34 PM Again, poor poor Does anyone know?
Still no ability on your part to come up with any facts to support your argument.
Give me some hope that all the right wing bloviators aren’t as stupid as you. List something that is based in reality that supports your side. Please, I really hope that you aren’t all idiots.
Posted by Charlie Horse on Sep 17, 2004 at 12:40 PM I’ve been following this discussion for a couple of days now,and I’ve come to the conclusion that our participitation of said discussion is a microcosm of the, if you will, “progressive elements” problem. We find ourselves nitpicking about relatively minor ideological differences, thereby alienating and subverting our chances to present a unified front against our common adversary; George W. Bush. WAKE UP. If you live in a swing state, you have to vote for Kerry, If you live in a dem. state(like I do), you can vote for Nader or Bednarik. Mainstream media will not help us, use your voice literally and electronically to get your opinions heard.Bush must lose. Global civilisation may be at stake.
Posted by Dr.D on Sep 17, 2004 at 6:27 PM How come In These Times wasn’t publishing stories like this in the leadup to the 2000 election, when they might have made a difference. Too little, too late is my take on the current hooha about Bush’s service record. (I suppose they’ll finally get around to the Margie Schroeder rape/murder case in about 2012.)
Posted by Carl Wernerhoff on Sep 19, 2004 at 8:17 PM Carl,
I can’t find anything on the rape/murder case you mentioned. Just a few small articles in places but they don’t go much into detail.My brother was murdered some years back. He was forgotten about by the press; they focused on the police mishandling of the case. On and on it went over the news for months until someone finally was convicted, though the accomplice walked on a technicality.
Imagine my anger.
Murder is a violation you can hardly believe. You feel it like a wet, mildewed quilt being thrown over you. All you want to do is fight your way out of it, but you’re so devestated, you don’t have the strength.
Seeing my mother lose another son, only to murder this time, was so awful. Rape is a horrible abomination and I can’t imagine a mother losing a daughter like this. Or the grief of anyone in the family losing their sister.If what you say happened and the guy walked, there are some horrible wounds out there that will never start to heal until someone is sent to prison. Even then, you bear them like a scar.
It wouldn’t surprise if it was that piece of shit in the White House. If you have money, you can buy your way out of anything. Meanwhile the casual weed smoker goes to prison, and Martha Stewart pays the pennace for the business criminals.
Posted by Neil on Sep 25, 2004 at 10:07 AM Seems the original article “Deserter at the Helm” was forgotten in all the postings to date. As a disabled Vietnam Vet, I find it especially odious that Bush has wrapped himself in the flag and spouts his self-delusional BS about “liberating” oppressed Iraqis. He is perfectly willing to send our sons and daughters to die in a war for reasons more bogus than the Gulf of Tonkin incidents. But where was he and his coterie when they had the chance to “liberate” South Vietnam? They all had “other priorities”, namely to avoid bodily harm to their elitist selves. I disagreed with the Vietnam war, but served because I was brought up a patriot. There were many like me. Now to hear this chickenshit administration denigrate such patriotism because many do not agree with his fascist policies adds just one more insult to the long litany of insults suffered by Vietnam Vets. How some of these vets can support Bush is beyond me. It is my opinion that the majority of said supporters were clerks and jerks in Vietnam with no combat experience who are belatedly exalting their participation by trying to prove what great “warriors” they were by vicariously fighting Bush’s war. If I learned anything in Vietnam, it is that a different culture cannot be changed by our bringing violence to bear and that we should not try as long as viable alternatives exist. Of course, Bush and his draft-dodging cabal would know none of this. Bush must go!
Posted by Gary C. on Sep 29, 2004 at 3:37 AM How about a little poetic justice?
The Burning Bush (a tribute to father and son)
Prepare to meet thy maker
Troublesome Christian fakerYou don’t seem to understand
respect for your fellow man
Don’t think that you can disguise
the hate that’s burning from your eyesYour evil actions we despise
too late to hide from all your lies
We’ve come together across this land
to take back our future from your handsFrom first to last word, you lying bastard
Grand wizard of deceit and disaster
A tainted victor, carbon based hell raiser
The empire falls on this comical KaiserYou stole the election
now you spread your infection
You show no affection
you’re a lethal injection
You can’t stand rejection
and you have no reflection
A distorted collection
of negative projectionsDo you get an erection
projecting dysfunction?
Need a circumcision
from your manly projections?
Taste apprehension
feel mass rebellion
There’ll be no resurrection
just your crucifixion!(And do I need to mention your total corruption?)
Are you paying attention
or do you lack intellection?
Fear’s your protection
hate’s your prescription
So what are our options
but to perform a dissection?
To your confused conceptions
and your evil perceptions.You should be safe in your mansion
as they flatten Manhattan
While you fatten your pension
with your war tax collection.
If you were Tibetan
you’d be less than a heathen
May your karma be true
to the power of centillion (10 600)You will rot in eternity
for the murder of millions
Stole the world’s prosperity
to profit a billion
One thing is certain
as we pull back the curtains
The truth has been written
you will not be forgotten!We will soon enlighten
this ship’s course will righten
The seas will soon settle
the skies will soon lighten
And the people will love
and stop all this fighting
A gift from above
it will be so delighting!So be prepared to meet thy maker
In the clear light, we all ascend
We will learn to forgive, and not to forget
And attain our collective enlightenment!Michael Michael December 21st, 2002
Posted by Michael on Sep 29, 2004 at 11:52 AM Page 1 of 1 pages -
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