Passion of the Right

Here’s how the pResident’s “compassionate conservative” way of cutting taxes for corporations has helped:

wire services story, published in USA Today and Rueters to name just two.

NEW YORK — PepsiCo (PEP), the world’s No. 2 soft drink company, said Thursday that quarterly profit rose because of tax benefits and strong performances from its key Frito-Lay snack and North American beverage businesses and it raised its full-year profit forecast.
The company also said it is closing four plants at Frito-Lay, resulting in 780 job cuts at those locations. About 250 of those jobs will be moved to other Frito-Lay operations.

Revenue rose 6.3% to $7.26 billion.

There’s talk of my company eliminating health insurance at the first of the year. I have epilepsy and pay $116 a month for insurance and medicine, and I only clear $1020. Without insurance—we’re talking about $400 a month. Another job? If I want to work part-time delivering pizzas and put in a 60-hour week.

Nice job, Bush, you son-of-a-bitch.

Hell yes, I’m angry. I’m angry because my country is destroying all that once made it unique among free nations. Ask an English person living here in America how much they paid in taxes and they tell you to stop bitching about how little you have to pay.

And this isn’t including the abominable lie that is the Iraq invasion:

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said on Monday he knew of no “strong, hard evidence” linking Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)‘s Iraq (news - web sites) and al Qaeda, despite describing extensive contacts between the two before the Iraq invasion.

Let’s see you spin that, you GOP fuckers!

Posted by Neil on Oct 5, 2004 at 6:47 AM

The “backlash myth” is a fascist appeal to declining WASP influence in American culture.  The result appears to have been the personification of “corporate America” in the image of a WASP.  Corporate interest equals WASP interest even if reality puts them at polar opposites.  Republicans believe what’s good for corporations is good for America, even if it means jobs are being shipped overseas, individual rights are denied, social inequities grow, information is distilled, wars are fought to achieve corporate objectives, and reality is turned into an illusion.  America, WAKE UP!

Posted by theloneous on Oct 5, 2004 at 12:58 PM

the standard liberal / left knee jerk response that “oh, those republicans, what are we ever going to do with them?” does kinda get on my nerves, especially when the left plays the exact same games, but just not as well as the republicans.

http://www.siglamag.com/features/0410/BushBashing.php

Posted by fmk on Oct 5, 2004 at 1:02 PM

Mr. Mulcahey paints a vivid picture of right wing psychological manipulations designed to turn our country into a theistic dictatorship. On the other side, O,Reilly, Hannity, Limbaugh& Buchanan Assert that the left wing’s shennanigans will result in some sort of secular anarchy. Polar opposites engaging in battle can be a real crowd pleaser, it can also be a great diversionary tactic if you happen to be a part of the elitist/corporate cadre that’s been controlling both parties for some time now. Kerry is bad, Bush is worse, Nader is the answer.

Posted by Dr.D on Oct 5, 2004 at 2:29 PM

I have seen first hand how the repukes have conned church goers to think the republican party is on their side. In a local election, two years ago, a candidate for the state senate lost after posters were put up around her district saying she was a baby killer. (No word on her pro-family stance for education, health care, etc)
There is a dirtier election this year for attorney general, and of course, the letters saying the bible will be banned.
In a state as poor as we are, being robbed of our natural resources, we need social programs that will help us. The welfare system has not worked, and now disability is the only option for some…25% of WV adults are on disability.
(granted some is valid due to coal mining)
Many join the service, because they think it is the only way to get an education or have a job.

I can only hope, when the curtain is drawn at the polls, people will realize that while coal companies are getting richer, while doctors get discounts from the state on their malpractice insurance, we, the citizens are suffereing due to favoritism. I can only hope we elect kerry.

Posted by Robin on Oct 5, 2004 at 3:13 PM

This is not a new strategy.  Keep them fighting amongst themselves, so they won’t notice that they are both being oppressed by the same forces, and come together to fight their common oppressor.  It’s not the Company Store anymore, nor the Company Town; it is the Company Country (hell bent on becoming the Company World).

Posted by liberalron on Oct 5, 2004 at 4:59 PM

“...what the Democrats need to do is build a movement of their own. So far there’s no sign of it.”  Wow, Mr Mulcahey, you said a mouthfull! But unfortunately most Americans really do identify with the demographic that the GOP claims to represent. Until the liberals get the clue that they have allowed reactionary forces to co-opt patriotism, spirituality (and I mean the Christianized kind that most Americans relate to), fiscal responsibility, and political decisiveness (are you listening, Mr. Kerry?), the Dems will be seen as watered down and boring, and appeals to open-mindedness and appreciation of cultural diversity won’t compensate. People want something to identify with, and if the Dems lack the cojones to come out as the champion (and I mean the defender, protector, and advocate) of those who have been the victims of over-concentrated wealth, cultural oppression by a religious majority, and political disenfranchisement (including being gerrymandered into obscurity), then they’ll be stuck with the message, “We’ll do pretty much what the incumbent is doing, but we’ll do it better.” Taking a more confrontational stance might be divisive in some sense, but at least it will be a real stance, instead of an emasculated, kinda-sorta hopefully convincing non-alternative. The only way to get GWB fired is to present an actual alternative that gets people worked up, off their asses, into the streets and polling booths. Does anyone out there see one being offered? Oh for a dose of Kennedy!

Posted by Kuya on Oct 5, 2004 at 7:21 PM

Hi,

First of all David does a poor job of delineating the history of the “conservative takeover” and then uses it to justify his erroneous conclusion that the Dems have not built their own party.  Hogwash.

Let me mention a few names—Nancy Pelosi, Jennifer Granholm, Patty Murray, Howard Dean, Barack Obama, Dennis Kucinich, Air America, The Progressive Populist, Alternet, MoveOn, Veterans for Common Sense, Helen Caldicott, David Brock et al.

David says that the conservatives took 40 years to build their machine—look how far the clueless Dems have come in 4 years!

In stead of denigrating these heroic efforts as non-existent David should be doing his job as a journalist and REPORTING about these seminal figures.

He seems to be one of those pundits that feels the Dems have to re-structure themselves in the mould of the GOP.  If they do that he will be among the shrill and ad hominem wags that will decry this as a recipe for disaster becuase “this is not what the REAL Democrats are about, they are abandoning their party trying to imitate the Republican success”.  In other, damned if they do, damned if they don’t.

The GOP has had a tremendous amount of “aiding and abetting” from many circles of influence willing to prostitute themselves for entrance into the land of “Steady Checkdom”, and all of the perks that come with the job.

This starts with the indispensable contributions of the servile milquetoast media.

David, I suggest you look in the mirror or, exhibit some aberrant behavior for the ranks of the media—run for office! 

Fat chance!

Posted by David T. Gray on Oct 5, 2004 at 7:40 PM

Cheney and his gang are saying to the American public the same thing Tricky Dicky C. said to his constituant in the Senate recently——“F… You”.
  How can people be so blind to what is happening with our government? There is no caring,no compassion,no respect fot humans, animals or the planet. “Actions speak louder than words” is an old saw.  Yet we are buying the words without looking at the actions .

    Just look at ONE truth alone: After 5 years of “W” as Gov., Texas ranked in the bottom 3 of all the states in quality of education,and quality of air and water.  Does this give anyone a clue?   

    If you are among the awake enlightened citizens, for God’s sake fire up everyone you know.  And VOTE!!!

Posted by Bevely Cummins Spangler on Oct 5, 2004 at 10:16 PM

Many people of faith are single issue voters. Support abortion and they will vote against you. Oppose it and they will vote for you. This position is perhaps the only honorable position for those who believe that abortion is murder. And certainly where i live, there are very significant numbers of people who subscribe to this point of view. To dismiss it is to bury one’s head in the sand. (Of course, to have another point of view is fine - people in the US can disagree on such issues without resorting to violence!)

Posted by Obviously on Oct 6, 2004 at 7:13 AM

You are obviously right,Obviously!!

  These single issues are what people get really emotional about( or, as we say here in the deep south, we get “het up”:) ) Sometimes when people get so worked up emotionally, it interferes with their ability to think rationally and to make sound judgements.

  I think it is interesting that many of those who oppose abortion, are adamently intent on upholding the death penalty and support accellerating the the killing in the Middle East.
Does that seem a little screwy to anyone?

  John Kerry is not PRO-abortion.  He’s Roman Catholic,for Pete,’ sake!  He simply believes(as
do I) that it is not the place of government to become involved in people’s personal private lives.  Do you know that Bush supported a bill which would have allowed federal agents to go into hospitals and examine women’s medical records?  Fortunately saner heads prevailed and the bill was not passed but that is an excellent example of the neocon mind-set.

  I do believe that the majority of citizens,when they have all the facts in hand will make the best choices on Nov. 2.

Posted by Bevely Cummins Spangler on Oct 6, 2004 at 6:45 PM

Good points, Beverly.

I can’t believe some Catholics still support the whole invasion while the Pope was saying it was wrong.

It is screwed up.

fmk, we bash Bush because:

1. He lied to the nation and the world
2. Illegally invaded Iraq
3. 1st president in 70 years to have NEGATIVE job growth for his entire first term.
4. Has cut and will continue to cut EPA regulations.
5. Says such things as “whim of a hat” in public.

We have many reasons to bash that inept piece of un-elected shit. And by the way, a real unbiased link you provide there. To borrow a neanderthal Republican phrase concerning your dislike of Bush bashing, “If you don’t like it go troll somewhere else!”

Posted by Neil on Oct 6, 2004 at 9:42 PM

Saying Kerry (henceforth to be known as poodle) is in the center is one of the main reason “progressives” (socialists) keep losing. America is smarter than to put you social degenerates in power. Tell me again how forced diversity and homosexuality is going to help this country? You are so far to from the values that made this country the best in the world. If you keep poking a dog with a stick sooner or later it’s gonna bite your ass. That is what the left has done. Keep stealing more money for taxes for more “programs”. Keep pushing the PC crap in schools and media. Keep telling people that they cannot recognize God in public forums (ie. schools,courthouses,town halls,etc) . Keep telling people that firearms ownership should be outlawed. Go ahead tell people that what they believe in is stupid and wrong and illegal. You are pushing for what will eventually will become a second civil war when you try to enslave people with your lies and socialism. Go ahead push your liberal crap down peoples throat . If you get all in a tizzy about Bush you ain’t seen nothing yet. I can’t wait until the boat leaves for France or China with every living sorry ass liberal on it or under it.

Posted by Carl on Oct 7, 2004 at 5:50 AM

Wow, Carl,

  You’ve got a whole bunch of hate going for you there.  Makes me wonder what in what sad circumstances you grew up to make you so angry and bitter at the world.

  I’ve never tried to shove my beliefs down anyone’s throat but I do have a right to express an opinion as do you.  Since I am a practicing Christian, I can only feel love for those who do not follow Christ’s teachings. Many people of other faiths actually LIVE in accordance with Spirit.  God can see into our hearts and knows the difference.

  A trip to the Orient sounds delightful.  Am wondering if you are in the travel business and how I can arrange passage on that boat. Would it look anything like the Ark?  Could I bring along my two cats and two dogs? Should I bring my gun along?  I’m a petty good trap shooter.
 
  Blessings to you on this beautiful day the Lord has made. 
              Beverly

Posted by Bevely Cummins Spangler on Oct 7, 2004 at 7:42 AM

I find the religious connection to political thinking to be in a word - exasperating.
It’s claimed that many church going people are predominately for Bush. The glaring contradiction and example of how many of these people are not really paying much attention to what the administration is really doing is - I would suggest - that if Jesus were to appear on the scene today, George W. Bush and the Republican attack machine would claim that Jesus is a left wing radical and proceed to crucify him and their record supports that!
Republican’s of the so-called religious right are opposed to progress, to science, to the environment, they are attempting and succeeding in many parts of the country to remove the teaching of evolution from school curriculums and anything that resembles a scientific/secular view of life.
The Republican party’s attempt at painting the Democratic party and liberalism as anti religion (anti-God) with their mailings that Democrats will “ban the bible” nonsense is successful because the media is absent in the debate and allows such blatant distortions to be made without serious opposition.
The success of the Republican party (somewhat fascist in it’s appearance) is not because the Democratic party has suddenly wilted in the heat of the debates for the hearts and minds of the American electorate but that many Americans seem to be content on no longer questioning the wisdom of their leaders, no longer seeking “truth”, no longer learning, no longer reading, and no longer understanding or perhaps caring what a proper education of our children means for our future.
I would not advocate the removal of God from the hearts and minds of Americans but would hope that the belief in God didn’t also mean the rise in ignorance and mean spirited Republicanism prevailing over the words of the “ten commandments” that the intolerant “religious right” attempt to post in public places, and amending the constitution to give credibility to their mean spirited and contradictory Christian hearts must be prevented.

Posted by BAM on Oct 7, 2004 at 8:12 AM

I grew up in a happy normal family in a small New England townthank you.I have little hate . You must be a liberal. I detest the fact that God and patriotism are wrested from schools and the public sphere while the homo agenda is being shoved down the throats of America . Just look how the “gay” agenda has used the the word homophobe. The word indicates that normal people who reject homosexuality are the ones with the problem…yeah right. And people are badgered and belittled to accept it with phrases like intolerance and bigoted etc. Give me a break.
And while I am on it I REALLY detest the way liberals say they are so smart but they cannot even read the Second Ammendment. I mean gimme a break- what part of shall not be infringed don’t you get. As for the elections even you president Clinton stated that the democrats lost big time when they tried to mess with the 2nd. How come it is with a country with so many firearms that no safety courses are taught in school but the gay agenda is. I don’t know the exact figures but I would be interested to see firearms deaths compared to AIDs and other STD’s. Sorry to ramble but I am mad as hell but I don’t hate anyone.Love the sinner hate the sin .

Posted by Carl on Oct 7, 2004 at 9:53 AM

Well, there can be doubt as to where Carl’s affiliations are.
Why are you threatened by anything so-called liberals stand for?
I don’t believe you have a probem in rejecting homosexuality except when you assert that those that are homosexuals have a problem. Why is it your concern?
And your appreciation of the 2nd ammendment apparently doesn’t apply to your own infringements on other’s rights.
No body, as far as I can see is opposed to owning guns. The only opposition that I’m aware of and agree with is the right to own “assault weapons” designed to kill multiples of people, not deer, squirrels or ducks unless of course that’s what you want, the freedom to stoop a heard of deer from impailing you on some antlers or squirrels pelting you with acorns or ducks coating you with droppings in their defense of the barrage of bullets expelled by these sporty weapons. What next the right to own Bazookazs or a tank? I have heard no one provide a rational reason to own assault weapons! Sure there is a lot of whining obout gun control and the right to bear arms but not one reasonabe explanation for owning “assault weapons”. If you want an assault weapon join the military I believe they issue them, and you get the opportunity to legally kill people too.
It doesn’t appear from the tenor of your argument that you are tolerant of anything that you disagree with.
Oh, I’m sure you don’t hate anyone anymore than the current administration would assert that they hate anyone. I’m sure you would not claim to be a racist anymore than Bush or Cheney or Delay or any other well spoken, smart Republicans would claim. No, If your not intolerant or homophobic and just said to be mad as hell, maybe it’s because you can’t assault gays, liberals or anyone else you disagree with because you given into trying to use language rather than violence to exprss yourself. That’s to be praised for sure. We can see that the Republican party also uses carefully crafted sound-bites to camoflauge their intentions and deeds is to be if not commended then at least acknowledged to be more effective than sending in troops into places they don’t belong.
I also grew up in a New England town which at one time believed in witchcraft. We’ve come a long ways from that but you would think that some current political mindsets would as soon return to that kind of control over education, women, and the population at large.

Posted by BAM on Oct 7, 2004 at 11:21 AM

To clarify BAM’s misguided diatribe I submit the following: 1-nowhere in the second ammendment is hunting mentioned. It ain’t about hunting. I thought maybe you could read. 2 I have never hurt anyone in my life. I don’t want to assault gays or anyone else.  You are the intolerant one by labeling anyone who disagrees with your socialist PC mindst as raciast,homophobe,mysoginist etc. I do own guns but I DO NOT own an assault weapon whatever that is. I do not even hunt anymore but I do enjoy target shooting and “plinking”. I am tolerant if you want to do something I don’t consider normal go ahead. The Constitution gives you the right to be a degegenerate, socialist,even idiot if you so choose. It does not give you the right however to destroy America. Liberals always start name calling when their arguments are hollow and lame.

Posted by carl on Oct 7, 2004 at 12:50 PM

Wow! Carl starts his comments by saying he “has little hate” and then procedes to talk about what he detests. This is truly indicative of the double talk and viciousness of the rightwing agenda. Anyone who is threatened by homosexuality that much didn’t get a whole lot of security from his “normal” family. This country was not founded in an atmosphere of “Christian beliefs”; it was founded on a the principal of separation of church and state. Diversity is and has always been a wonderful, enriching part of American life.
As a non-Christian, I am well aware of the inequalities promoted by the Christian culture. When my son was in the choir, virtually all the songs selected by the teacher were hymns - in spite of the fact that an entire year of Islam songs or even Native American religious songs would infuriate the Christians. In the school department in which I work, our holiday parties are dominated by Christian themes, and I am subjected to Christian prayers before our meals. It’s easier for me to just let that go than it is to make a big fuss about it. One of my co-workers who is also a friend and a devout Pentacostal asked me why I don’t believe what she does. It never occurred to her that she would be insulted if I asked her (using the same tone of puzzlement) why she does believe. When I explained it to her, her answer was “well, maybe you will come to believe some day.” Had I said “Well, maybe you will wake up to see that it’s all a myth” she would have been offended, and rightly so.
School is no place for a government sponsored religion. Period.
As for the right wing agenda, it has been such a constant source of amazement to me that working people support policies that are so obviously against their better interests that I have read as much as I can concerning this issue. Dave has provided as coherent and thoughtful account of it as I have read. It amounts to this: Right wing politicians promote social and religious “values” to the poor and disenfranchised, then blame the liberals when they don’t even bother to really push the legislation to follow through. It’s a smoke screen. Working people vote for prayer in school, then they get tax cuts for the rich. Vote against affirmative action, get loopholes for corporations to move off shore. The list is endless.
This administration has the largest non-military spending record in modern times. So liberals are “tax and spend”? And neo-cons are just “spend and spend.” It’s like the old Grateful Dead song, “We don’t own this land, but we act as if we did. It belongs to the children of our children’s kids. The actual owners haven’t even been born yet.” And so it goes with the deficit and the ravages of the right wingers against our democracy, our environment, our civil rights.
It’s time to take the blinders off and see what the real right wing plan for America’s future will bring!

Posted by LeeAnn Gallucci on Oct 7, 2004 at 12:52 PM

Leanne, I would love to talk with you regarding your response. Sounds like the same stuff I get here. The aclu got involved with a case a few years back regarding this issue on a local level. Please write if you’re interested.
Robin
ritabird1@yahoo.com

Posted by Robin on Oct 7, 2004 at 12:58 PM

I just read Carl from New England’s comment.  I am also from New England and I have run into Carl’s ilk many times.  I have only one question for dear sweet Christian gun-bearing Carl:

When have you EVER heard a liberal say they were SMART?  I am 55 years of age and I never have.

Carl, I suspect, is a closet dittohead with a nasty streak that only comes out after some social lubrication.

He spews his hatred for the bulk of his comments then absolves himself dutifully with a schiziod “I forgive you”.

He has bought many of the GOP hot-button issues that pours forth from the media on a daily basis then cloak themselves in even-handedness.

In closing, if I had Carl in front of me I would ask him of his conservative brethren:

What Bible do you read?  Since the 10 Commandments are the configuration of the Bible how many of those 10 commandments do the GOP break on a daily basis?

Posted by David T. Gray on Oct 7, 2004 at 1:07 PM

Carl:
In my misguided view, you are the one that brought up the 2nd amendment and based on you current response I don’t know why you brought it up in the first place. As far as I’m aware no Democrats or liberals are opposed to the right to bear arms, so, what was you purpose in bringing it up if not to advocate the allowing a citizen to bear any arms they desire?
In no line that I previously wrote did I call you any of the things you assert. I was speaking in general terms about the Republican mind set which you seem to attempting to articulate.
How are liberals destroying your America and presumably Republicans are attempting to preserve and improve it.
You are the one in your previous post that was assailing gays & liberals as something that angered you.
I appreciate your in depth and profound insight into the issues addressed in the article that precedes all these posts. I understand your position so much more clearly now…whatever it really is.

Posted by Bruce A. Morgan on Oct 7, 2004 at 1:50 PM

I am starting to like this! There is a difference between hating something and detesting it. Look it up -it’s even spelled different! This country was founded by religious “nuts” with guns. Don’t they teach history anymore? School is no place for state sponsored forced “diversity” training, or pushing the homosexual agenda. Diversity for the sake of diversity is the ideology of the cancer cell. I never said that I was a dittohead or Christian or even was bearing guns( I keep them locked in a safe). It sure is funny how the venom and condecending name calling comes out when you are challenged. You have to distract to name calling because your arguments are hollow as is your ideology. I am hesitant to start doing the Bible with any of you if you cannot even read something like the Constitition and figure it out.  It’s supposed to be freedom of religion-not freedom from religion.

Posted by Carl on Oct 7, 2004 at 2:01 PM

PS-Mr. Gray- I ask noboby for forgiveness certainly not any mortal. Also it’s not about the bible, it’s about common sense. You don’t start going into schools and governments and trash what people believe and expect them to just welcome you with open arms. I am not not “schizoid” and I would sure like to know what “social lubrication” is.

Posted by Carl on Oct 7, 2004 at 2:14 PM

Carl:
God has not been removed from schools, if I understand the meaning of God as you believe.
Apparently your belief system is faulty and your faith has been weakened by presumably liberals and people that you perceive to be out to ruin the - what - the existence of God?
If you believe in God as you obviously do why do you concern your self with whether school prayer or even whether the mention of “God” is in our pledge? It should make no difference, either God is omnipresent or he/she isn’t…
I was brought up Catholic and owe much of my moral grounding to the religious teaching but eventually I began to question the validity of much of the dogma and now would consider myself more inclined to agree with Buddhist belief rather than all the mythology coming from organized religion.
That doesn’t make me any less respectful of my fellow humans, animals, environment or opinions different than my own.
Your religious belief does not bother me, it’s the attempt to force that belief upon others that is bothersome.

Posted by Bruce A. Morgan on Oct 7, 2004 at 2:20 PM

Carl said (among other idiotic things):

“I have little hate. You must be a liberal. I detest . . . And while I am on it I REALLY detest . . .  I am mad as hell but I don’t hate anyone. Love the sinner hate the sin . . . .”

Carl, you are an abject idiot.

Posted by Lefty on Oct 7, 2004 at 2:21 PM

PS: Hey Carl!  Is that your picture at the top?  LOL.  I can see your tomato face now. LOL.

Posted by Lefty on Oct 7, 2004 at 2:22 PM

Mr.Morgan I respond by saying my God is not dead…sorry to hear about yours tho. My moral grounding also comes from religious exposure early in life. I do not force my beliefs on anybody. On the contrary it is the holier than thou liberals who force their beliefs on EVERYONE. Imagine for a moment you are in school in a small rural town and tone of the so called diversity trainers come to your school.If a girl is pregnant they will circumvent the parents to get her an abortion. They tell you everything that you and your family believe is not only wrong but stupid and then call you names. You don’t seem to see that it is a case of the pot calling the kettle black. The left is evangelical and pushy about “diversity”. I have read and studied all views of the political and religios spectrum. From paganism to born again from rainbow festivals to militia and many in between. I formulate my belief sysytem on what I have felt in my heart and mind is right and ask conversion or agreement from no one.

Posted by Carl on Oct 7, 2004 at 2:33 PM

Hey Lefty. please pull the butt-plug outta yer ass it is cutting off the circulation to yer brain and shut up now- I refuse to have a battle of wits with someone thatis unarmed

Posted by Carl on Oct 7, 2004 at 3:08 PM

I thought this board was a bit more about an intelligent discussion of the issues, rather lowering ourselves to the same level of intelligence as the man whp pretends to be in charge.

Posted by Robin on Oct 7, 2004 at 3:11 PM

You are right Robin and I apologize for getting into a base dispute with a dropout from the Al Franken charm school.

Posted by Carl on Oct 7, 2004 at 3:15 PM

Hummm, I don’t believe I claimed that God was dead. Nietzsche said that. Whether he/she is or not is open to debate I suppose. God is a metaphor in my opinion and used to subjugate people to believe in wars and frankly non-christian behavior in his/her name.

Your taking this to personally and I would suggest that none of the post writers are against families and I don’t recall reading that you were stupid. I assume that your more misinformed and perhaps entertain stereotypical views of liberals, gays and reasonable people that don’t believe in your God, than you are stupid.

Oh, and anyone can take an introduction to religions in college to familiarize themselves with the many that are out there but there is no course apparently that teaches critical thought so you have the tools to appreciate the difference between mythology and reality.

Those liberals that you detest are not trying to misinform children in rural communities anymore than they are trying to misinform children in urban or suburban middle class communities. We all want our children to be provided the best educations available. If you want them to learn about the almighty they can attend church and Sunday school.

Incidentally, although I hold the liberal point of view that women have the right to chose I’m not an advocate of abortion as a birth control method. In fact I’m opposed to abortions on principal but I don’t believe that we should be proclaiming that woman or that doctors that perform them to be murderers as that good Republican Dr. running for the US Senate from Oklahoma is suggesting.

Many of our terrorist enemies are fundamentalist religious fanatics but I’m afraid that many fundamentalist religious fanatics right here are as great a threat to our freedom as they are.

I don’t want to call you names as none would be apropos.

Posted by BAM on Oct 7, 2004 at 3:56 PM

Come on Carl:
I don’t see why Robin deserved your Dick Cheney like insult.
Stand for what you believe in but if your going to debate/argue with people do it from the srength of your conviction and not from the level of your contempt.

Posted by BAM on Oct 7, 2004 at 4:23 PM

BAM,
No sense trying to talk sense. I have learned from months of posting at Yahoo boards, that most adults would rather believe a nice lie, than the ugly truth.
I have asked for civility and got what seemed like a backhanded apology from me.
What seems to be the truth to me is this current time in american history (for whatever reason, though I have my theories) is one where permission has been given through anonymity of the internet to be crude and uncivil to each other.
I have never been one for protocol, but I thought the ten commandments have always been a good guideline, no matter who the author.

Posted by Robin on Oct 7, 2004 at 4:28 PM

Bam/Robin I did not mean any disrespct toward Robin in the least. I just get pissed at people like lefty who resort to name calling and I am not one of those people who can let it slide when I hear and idiot speak. I guess years working as bouncer has shortened my capacity for mouthy idiots.
  I guess my main peeve with liberals and I must admit the “right” also is the abject willingness to demand rights while negating rights. What I mean plainly is that if you are for abortion rights then you damn well better be for second ammendment rights. If you want to espouse homosexuality as an option then you had better let people hear about God too. To be truly educated you must hear both sides or in fact all side to make an informed ,heartened and rational decision.
  The divide and conquer mentality is too prevelent today. I hate the holier than thou attitude in ANYONE. There are some things that are more absolute in terms of position such as taxes but people must be able to learn to live with opposing views.
I find that anytime somebody wants to equate the second ammendment with hunting and disdains firearms I get pissed because I believe in the second ammendment. When certain positions are espoused by people who are against firearm ownership (and I am not talking machine guns!)I have a tendency to question things that they feel are important. How dare you demean my beliefs and expect even demand self rightously that I accept yours.
  Thanks for the opportunity to speak.

Posted by Carl on Oct 7, 2004 at 4:42 PM

I really don’t understand where you’re coming from.  You use a lot of soubriquets and accuse others of name-calling.  My feeling is, you are one of the “My mind is made up, don’t bother me with facts” crew.

  Here’s my final word on our topic,as I have better things to do than deal with close-minded fanatics.

  Jesus said.“Render unto Caesar(ie: kings and governments) the things that are Caesar’s and unto God the things that are God’s”.  A clear case for Separation of Church and State.  N’est pas?  ( I threw in that bit of French just to annoy you—LOL!) 

  There will be no great changes in this world because of what we write here.  It’s merely a chance to ventilate and blow off steam.

  Hang on to your sense of humor,baby!

          Love and blessings,
                        Bev

Posted by Bevely Cummins Spangler on Oct 7, 2004 at 5:06 PM

I’m really confused by your continued mention of the second amendment. Where is it written that anyone is opposed to it? If that is true then it should be a news story.
Also I don’t believe that anyone is espousing, recommending homosexuality over heterosexuality. There seems to be the confusion with being tolerant to lifestyles different than our own and advocacy.
Your right about learning to live with people with opposing views, but all your previous prose seemed to contradict that.
And this forum does allow people to maintain a degree of annonimity while expressing their views.
What it doesn’t do is give permission to disparage others for attempting to express their views.
Hang in there…

Posted by BAM on Oct 7, 2004 at 5:49 PM

Lets take another look at what Carl said:

“I have little hate. You must be a liberal. I detest . . . And while I am on it I REALLY detest . . .  I am mad as hell but I don’t hate anyone. Love the sinner hate the sin . . . .”

Then Carl said: “I hate the holier than thou attitude in ANYONE.”

Carl, you are an still abject idiot and a hypocrite.  And try looking up the word abject before using it again, pea brain.

Posted by Lefty on Oct 8, 2004 at 8:19 AM

Mr. Mulcahey makes a number of interesting points, both true and false.  I am a Catholic, a determined opponent of abortion, but also very much against the unjust invasion of Iraq and capitalism (I am a distributist).  Mr. Mulcahey is correct that Republicans have capitalized on a number of issues, such as abortion, to get the votes of people whose real interests they do not have at heart.  They deliver little or nothing on these “social issues,” and at the same time, turn the country over to the power of the corporations.  But is this all there is to it?  Take abortion, for example.  We’ve all seen pictures of unborn babies.  Is it really so silly to think that these are pictures of tiny human beings, and that like all human beings, they deserve the protection of the law?  To me it seems simply like common sense.  The reason the Republicans were able to get people to vote for them while hurting these same people economically, is that in many cases these “social issues” are real.  If an unborn baby is a person, then it is murder or manslaughter to kill that person.  Should we be unconcerned about that?  If you’re saying that all we should be concerned about is whether my paycheck is bigger or smaller, or whether I have decent health care, then how are you different from the Republicans who say all we should care about is my own well-being?  I will be voting for neither Bush nor Kerry in this election, since I regard each of them, in his own way, as very harmful to the common good.  Until more Democrats and other progressives wake up and realize that there are some valid concerns with many of these “social issues,” then they will continue to have the same problems and lose elections to the corporate capitalist Republicans.

Posted by Tom on Oct 8, 2004 at 8:45 AM

Following up on the insidious religious Republican revisionist agenda. Some of you are probably aware of the creationist theory being advocated to be part of the schools curricula. Their assault on science and evolutionary theory in particular has suddenly taken on a new legitimacy and actually going to become part of some school programs because like racists they have adopted the newer more shaded language of racism they have learned how to manipulate scientific language to forward their specious “Intelligent Design” theory. Like any good defense attorney they want to promote a reasonable doubt theory to any scientific evidence that doesn’t support their views.
Even the invasion of Iraq had a religious reason component to it along with the for oil, but not to many people want to bring it up in debate because it will become to controversial and unresolved.
If we accept the George Bush theory of stem cell research, economics, preemptive war, environmental protection, global warming, civil rights, and last but not least what is and isn’t truth, we do it at our peril.
It has become cliche to say this is the most important election of our life time but it really is in more ways than one. Some apparently are choosing to ignore the issues at stake and claim they probably wont vote or will vote for Nader of some other candidate. I’m not going to attempt to dissuade them from their choice, but only offer a bit of recollection that, back some 50 years ago a lot of people didn’t take a particular politician seriously enough to prevent his grab for power and they paid for that poor judgement.
Ignorance can I suppose be blissful to some but if we have to many taking refuge in that we will suffer for generations.
  The Democratic party is not without it’s faults as many writers above point out, but if you were to compare them to what the Republican party is up to, there can be no doubt that the Republican party would prefer we return to a pre-Civil War era or at least to a more wide spread Southern mentality; they would prefer to eliminate Darwinism being taught all together, they would prefer slavery over freedom, they would prefer a more ignorant population rather than a properly educated one, and they of course would prefer that we accept without question their explanations for anything they say is good for the country.
I have more faith in the electorate - that we just can’t be as ignorant as the Republicans seem to be counting on. And come Nov 2 we will vote for the entire good of the country and not vote based on a single issue.
Some will accept the sky being red if the administration says it is but that doesn’t make it so.
We are indeed at war in this country to take control of the heartland of America, and I’m not just referring to geography; we can not allow our educational system nor our government to become extensions of religious fanatical teachings anymore than we will tolerate it happening across the oceans.

“Computers double their performance every 18 months. So the danger is real that they could develop intelligence and take over the world”
                              Stephen Hawking
“Learn to look with an equal eye upon all beings, seeing
the one Self in all.”
                              Srimad Bhagavatam

Posted by BAM on Oct 8, 2004 at 10:22 AM

“never try to teach a pig to sing, it wastes your time and it annoys the pig” I am not gonna change your mind an you are not gonna choose mine. I read things like Republican revisionist agenda and I just can’t fathom that liberals are so far gone mentally they twist things to suit their beliefs. It is like a liar lying so much she starts to actually believe her lies. Your whole agenda is corrupt, ridiculous, and just plain wrong. From affirmitave action to gun control to taxes and “moral issues” you are on the wrong side of every issue except maybe the enviornment. Look I like Bush for the most part. I agree that some of his policies I don’t agree with but I agree with him alot more than 99% of the democrats I hear. The democratic party and the democratic platform is out of touch with America; most of it anyway. You paint anyone that doesn’t agree with you as racist,homophobe,sexist, ad nauseum. I just hope you all don’t flip out too bad when Bush wins this election by a landslide.

Posted by Carl on Oct 8, 2004 at 5:04 PM

Just how is our agenda wrong, Carl?
Is it wrong to give minorities a fair shake? Is it wrong to stop racially profiling people? Is it wrong to control lunatics out there with firearms? Is it wrong to tax people for services that you take for granted?
Just from your statements, I know a racist when I hear one. That’s immoral, and so is that fucking piece of shit we didn’t elect.
Fuck him and fuck your agenda.

Posted by Neil on Oct 8, 2004 at 7:17 PM

Oh, and by the way, hypocrite Carl, I use foul language but it’s definitely called for in the case of an arrogant self-righteous ass like you. I don’t claim to be a perfect person, whereas most “gubment-hating, flag-waving bubbas who done claims ta go ta church” will vote for anyone provided they pay lower taxes and sell the country out from under them do claim to be and claim Bush as their “moral man”. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Posted by Neil on Oct 8, 2004 at 7:20 PM

Well, I wouldn’t expect you to appreciate let alone understand what I was taking about.
For a person that says he doesn’t hate anyone you show many of the signs of a bigot and frankly I won’t waste anymore time attemting to reply to your nonsense.
I didn’t call you a racist, homophobe or a mysoginist but apparenty the words strike a chord and you do have a tendency to ignore what others are saying and dismiss them out of hand when they obviously disagree with your position.
Sorry you felt the need to bounce everyone that attempted to engage you in this forum out of the debate,but of course you claimed that it was your profession.
Keep on bouncing.

Posted by BAM on Oct 8, 2004 at 7:21 PM

Carl:
Well, I wouldn’t expect you to appreciate let alone understand what I was taking about.
For a person that says he doesn’t hate anyone you show many of the signs of a bigot and frankly I won’t waste anymore time attemting to reply to your nonsense.
I didn’t call you a racist, homophobe or a mysoginist but apparenty the words strike a chord and you do have a tendency to ignore what others are saying and dismiss them out of hand when they obviously disagree with your position.
Sorry you felt the need to bounce everyone that attempted to engage you in this forum out of the debate,but of course you claimed that it was your profession.
Keep on bouncing.

Posted by BAM on Oct 8, 2004 at 7:28 PM

yeah, yeah , yeah- typical liberals whining. You don’t agree with my ideology so you are a gasp- racist or homosexualphobe or some other name you made up. You liberals are spineless& idiotic. Yeah it’s ok to give anybody a fair shake no matter who they are. Racial profiling- give me a break. You go after whoever is committing crimes.White guys ain’t flying planes into buildings asshole. You are so full of BS you can’t even think straight.Taxes - I am tired of paying taxes for the BS liberal welfare entitilement state. Taxes are one thing stealing money for you limp agenda is another.Idiots

Posted by Carl on Oct 9, 2004 at 5:34 AM

Carl:
You ain’t buying anything unless packaged in a plain brown wrapper and sent to you by the RNC.
As one writer observed you mind is closed.
You have demonstrated that you have adopted the Orwellian double-speak - so cleverly used by this administration, and your not a racist, your not a homophobe, your not a mysoginist, you are a Republican for freedom to disparage & dispise
all those that are not quite like you, and God forbid must be “liberals”; the “N” word of political parlance, red-neck good ol’ boys and bar-room inebriates.
Are we supposed to be insulted?
You don’t sound like a very happy fellow
for being so sure you and your president are right.
Incidentally, you have yet to explain where it is written that there is opposition to the second amendment!

Posted by BAM on Oct 9, 2004 at 9:07 AM

Oh but I am a very happy fella! Being right makes me happy.Poor Neil &BAM; (or is that Neil-BOB) you fag lovers are a sick sick lot. How can anyone in their right mind espouse sexual deviancy? Whats next Kids, sheep, how about trees? Where does it end with you degenerates? Racist-Mysoginist..Ha just because I don’t believe in special preferences for blacks does’t mean I am a racist.Just because I don’t agree with the sicko men hating feminazis doesn’t mean I hate women you narrow minded idiots. Your mouths and minds are so full of BS you don’t even see it.

Posted by Carl on Oct 9, 2004 at 9:40 AM

O.K People,

  Let’s not gang up on poor old Carl. He’s outnumbered and out-classed and it isn’t really fair.

  I can’t help but wonder why he would come in on a site for progressives. He must have known he would not find any of his kind here. On another site where people were discussing the election, a man told me that after Bush was reelected, he was going after all the liberals with a gun.  At least Carl wants to send us on an ocean voyage( I can only hope there won’t be a bomb planted on the
ship)

  Yesterday from 4;30 to 6:00 P.M.,I stood at a busy intersection in Cocoa,Fl And waved Kerry-Edwards signs with about 20 others. We got LOTS of “thumbs ups”,smiles ,and “go Kerrys”. There were a few who gave the “V” for victory sign & forgot to put up the 2nd finger. The 2 eight-year old boys and 6yr old girl in our group thought it was funny that grownups could be that forgetful.
 
  Have you all seen the battery pack picture from the first debate?  A photo take from the back clearly shows that item outlined under Bush’s jacket.  This would explain why he angrily said “Let me finish!” when no one was interrupting and it wasn’t near his time limit.  Would also explain the odd facial epressions when he was not speaking.  HE WAS LISTENING TO INSTRUCTIONS IN A RECEIVER IN HIS EAR. Looks like security may have to start frisking the candidates.  You can see the pic on the “GRIST” magazine site.       

    “Curiouser and curiouser” said Alice.

Posted by Bevely Cummins Spangler on Oct 9, 2004 at 10:17 AM

Carl:
If your didn’t sound so pathetic I’d find some humor in this back and forth.
You seem to be the deviant no matter how “happy” you claim to be.
You perhaps surround your self with like minded people, that’s a frightening thought indeed. “skin-head” & “neo-Nazis” comes to mind.
I’d call you a Neanderthal but I don’t want to be unfair to them. I can appreciate your level of education as being still going through the potty training phase and incapable of properly expressing your self as an adult but hey, you’re entitled to your closed mean child like mind and you can revel in it as a happy mentally challenged adult.
We can all be happy to be quite different than you!

Posted by BAM on Oct 9, 2004 at 10:19 AM

I agree with Bevely, we can desist from ganging up on poor Carl but we can’t ignore [unfortunately] that he represents many troubled people out there.
This guy has been trying to prod most of the people within this forum and they all have taken turns trying to answer him and criticize him for his bigoted, homophobic, misogynist and racist diatribes.
He’s pretty clear as to where he’s coming from, so, we understand him don’t we?

Posted by BAM on Oct 9, 2004 at 10:34 AM

Oh boy now ya all have gone and hurt my feelings-sniff-sniff. I am a homophobe. calling me that indicates that I have a problem right. Just keep telling you delusional selves that I am the one with the problem and that makes it all right. I am not the one having sex with other men, Gays are the ones with the problem and should get mental help. Up until the mid 70’s homosexuality was on the list of mental disorders. Bigoted-misgonist- did they teach you that in college? Oh us bad white men..we are the curse of the earth. You classify anybody that does not agree with you with name calling. You are just as bad as the KKK and skinheads you loathe- you are them just a lot more liberal in your hate. And BAM you are pure idiot plain and simple . Who tells you to say all this bad stuff?  you really have not got a clue do you. You say stuff that proves your abject ignorance beacuse you cannot fight me on the principles. So go ahead all of you with your little alliance I am happy to be on the outside of people with such deep thought and conviction as tou.

Posted by Carl on Oct 9, 2004 at 1:35 PM

“Carl” wrote:

This country was founded by religious “nuts” with guns.

No it wasn’t.  “Founded” was the peaceful drafting and adoption of the U.S. Constitution.

If you’re talking about the break from the British, it was by a group of people who did not belong to the United States of America (see U.S. Constitution).

Oh, and the Mayflower Compact, which every religious zealot likes to identify as the origins of this “Christian nation,” was signed by less than half of the participants (41 out of 102- hardly unamimous as we’ve been brainwashed into believing).  Nowhere did any of this/it enter into the Constitution.

The founding of this nation, was not, and is not, based on Christianity.  Go ahead, find it in the most important documents that created and sustain this nation.

Isn’t the current wave of power mongers in Washington looking to create the first amendment to our constitution RESTRICTING individual rights?  Who’s looking to trash this country?

Former U.S. Marine
Weapons owner
Hater of intolerance

God is Not a Republican. Or a Democrat.
http://go.sojo.net/campaign/takebackourfaith

Posted by seer on Oct 9, 2004 at 1:50 PM

You have principles? Amazing! I thought they sounded more like prejudices.
But of course you wouldn’t know the differences.
Sorry to have encouraged you to assert any more of your misunderstanding of human nature and what is proper civil discourse.
Your “not having sex with other men” perhaps your problem is that you spend to much time thinking about things that you shouldn’t be concerned with. Let Rick Santorum spend his time articulating your view. At least he knows how to use the language albeit he’s as wrong as you are on the issue.
I won’t waste any more of my time with your ignorant ranting.  Yea, I’m “a pure idiot” to assume your anything but…well, I’ll refrain from any further name calling as this debate is no longer productive at least with you.
I have removed myself from receiving anymore
replies from here.

Posted by BAM on Oct 9, 2004 at 1:58 PM

Aw BAM whattsa matter. Can’t take a little dissent from your way left ideology. I will not let you dictate to me what is civil discourse. You use disparaging names too but I guess it’s OK when you do it because in your mind your right. The line between principle and prejudice is only heard in the mind of someone who does not agree with you. Calling me ignorant is a typical liberal rant. I guess I am not smart enough to accept any mindless crap that people try to put in my mind. I have my own thoughts and beliefs . I KNOW the difference between right and wrong. I do not need you or anybody else to determine my values.

Posted by Carl on Oct 9, 2004 at 3:25 PM

Carl:
AMEN!

Posted by BAM on Oct 9, 2004 at 3:38 PM

“Freedom is the right to make choices other people disapprove of.”—Eric Hoffer,journalist. (The man who wrote the newspaper articles upon which “On the Waterfront” was based.)

  Before signing off from this thread, I would like to make a couple of points:

    1) Homosexuality is NOT a choice. Scientific studies of the brains of men who died from AIDS show that their brains are constructed differently.  This was reported by medical journals and Time magazine.  Furthermore, psychologists agree that men who are extremely angry and upset by homosexuals are demonstrating their insecurity over their OWN sexuality.
 
    2) Similarly, those who become almost hysterical over the possibility that someone might try to take away their guns, are exhibiting their fear of castration.  The gun is a classic phallic symbol.

    So, Carl, don’t be surprised if you catch a few snickers from those who listen to your rants. Your words reveal a lot about you.

    3) John Kerry is NOT a “far left liberal”. He is considered a moderate by members of the Senate,both Democrat and Republican, with whom he has served honorably for quite a few years. Attaching a perjorative but inaccurate label to
someone shows a lack of critical discernment—a paucity of research.

    4) Flip-Flop is a word that has been repeated ad nauseum.  Advertisers know well that a slogan repeated often enough gets drummed into people’s unconcious mind.  Like an hypnotic suggestion it can make them go out to buy a product they might not even want. “Pepsi-Cola hits the spot”—“You can’t eat just one”, etc.,etc.
                       
    Are you awake out there??

    Another quote;” Consistancy is the hobgoblin of little minds.”—Ralph Waldo Emerson.

    May I suggest that,when your bouncer’s duties allow you some free time, you spend it at your local library reading the words of some of the world’s great thinkers and philosophers: Plato, Seneca, Goethe,Henry James, Gide, Kirkegaard, Jung—just for starters—then add the great playwrights who have shaped Western thinking like Oliver Goldsmith, Molier, Rostand, Chekov, G.B. Shaw to name but a few.  You can learn a lot from Mark Twain’s essays too. There are riches awaiting you and they cost nothing.

    Would love to hear from you in a few years. 

                    Blessings,
                        Beverly

Posted by Bevely Cummins Spangler on Oct 9, 2004 at 7:05 PM

Yawn Beverly Yawn. I guess you get your information from whatever suits your beliefs and that’s OK. Why do liberals always talk in terms of sex tho? I have no fear of castration, I am secure in my sexuality,and the gun is NOT aphallic symbol -it’a a tool like any other. And as to reading I have my own personal library of approx 10,000 volumes many by authors you suggested. I do not come from the reactionary ,uneducated mindset that you seem to think I do. I do think being gay is a choice- it’s the ultimate narccisim . I DO think Kerry is one the most liberal senators. He never met a tax he did not like or a gun control law he disliked. Have you read his record?? I have and If this country falls for a man who is actually to the left of Ted Kennedy then we are in REAL trouble.I thought liberals were not judgemental but from this forum I can see that you all are very critical and condescending of anyone that does not agree with . I realized a long time ago that liberals were the most hypocritical people and still believe that now

Posted by Carl on Oct 9, 2004 at 7:26 PM

Bevely:
Why waste your time on this “marooon” (as Bugs Bunny might say). Your attempt to influence him to appreciate the authors you mention is a total waste of your time. Don’t entertain him any longer - he’s a real case for study but not by you or I, and hardly worth any further attempts to give him any respect or appreciation beyond his displayed limitations.
Yea, guns are just tools, and he lamented on two or three occasions about some kind of assault on the 2nd amendment to presumably to take his “tool” away (castration?) to which I asked him: “where is it written” or claimed that there was sombody trying to deny him his playing with his “tool”?. He has never answerd that question!
I have given up and have been trying to extricate myself from this forum but looked in and saw your reasonable and insightful comments.
Sorry that they won’t make any difference as his reply supports.

Posted by BAM on Oct 9, 2004 at 7:52 PM

Boy you are really a bunch of mushmouth wackos. I knew you would run with the “tool” . Get your head outta your pants you degenerates. You all know why you are mad and won’t admit it. Bush cut taxe, is against baby murder, and is for the second ammendment. Get over it you snivelers. Why don’t you go open another gay bar or baby killing mill or something.You won’t be happy until you get a pres who says that women can murder their babies. you are all a bunch of sickos without reason or intelligence. I hope Bush wins but for no other reason than to piss you off.Go to France ,go to Hell.

Posted by Carl on Oct 10, 2004 at 5:15 AM

Actually, Carl “hate” and “detest” are spelled differently - not different. And although they are different words, they are synomyms. In case you are unfamiliar with the meaning of “synomym,” it means two words with the same meaning.

Posted by LeeAnn Gallucci on Oct 11, 2004 at 6:08 AM

Boy Carl, are you ever preoccupied with penises, pants, guns and gays. Are you hiding something, troll?

You can keep your little pop-gun because I know how afraid of everything you are. You’re afraid of the “a-rab”, you’re afraid of minorities, you’re probably afraid of women advancing in the ranks of the workplace and government.
My how Bush has you in the palm of his hands, working you with fear and hatred of anything that disagrees with neo-conservative garbage. You actually believe this biggoted swill you wrote and that just gives you no credibility, especially when on a progressive forum.
Well, guess what. If Hitler, I mean Bush (God helps us all) wins again, he won’t make abortion illegal. No way. How many women are in this country compared to men? What does it say in one of those “10,000” books you have? And who are you to speak for women anyway? Or any of the other people you’ve bashed with your hatred?

We’re not hypocrites. We’re intolerant of hillbilly attitudes that you seem to respresent—the same ones that had epileptics burned at the stake for being possessed and left hundreds and hundreds of black men hanging in trees in the first half of the 20th century. It took a Democrat (gasp!) to listen to black Civil Rights leaders. Reagan probably would have just made a joke and ignored them.
Man, Bush is playing you. Ha!

Your Rush Limbaugh arguments and tantrums won’t work here, little doggy, so go bark somewhere else.

By the way, if it weren’t for the French, you troll, England would have lost their entire army at Dunkirk, along with 100,000 free-French. But nobody ever gives them credit for that one.

Posted by Neil on Oct 11, 2004 at 12:50 PM

Oh, and Carl, you’re the one that started all the name-calling. Read your first post and tell me you didn’t.
Oh, wait, that’s a FACT. Well, looks like you won’t be reading that again.

Posted by Neil on Oct 11, 2004 at 12:55 PM

Halloween is approaching
and we stir and are reproaching
this Red/Carl for encroaching
upon our sense of right and wrong
knocking our sensibilities all along
He relishes the tricks and get his treat
from our fear and loathing of his blighted spirit
we’re taken in and can not see it.
All Hallow’s Eve
we celebrate with pretense
wearing masks and the like
Knocking on stranger’s doors under
cover of the night
But there are real monsters
under cover trying to scare within this site
with words and disregard for what’s polite
These Monsters lurking should stir fears
but three days hence is the real scare
we vote for who will lead us for the next 4 years!
Be sure to vote, and if we prevail…
All the torment of hell will befall upon poor Carl because he and the devil did indeed fail!
Happy Halloween

Posted by BAM on Oct 11, 2004 at 2:43 PM

Boy BAM even your poetry Like your ideology sucks.
Rush is right and you can’t handle it. Neil isn’t time you went cruising at the local gay bar or something you sound a little dry….liberal idiots

Posted by Red on Oct 11, 2004 at 3:35 PM

“the local gay bar”  where presumably you are a bouncer…
  and probably a writer on the bathroom stalls, your writing skill seems to fit that venue rather this.
  It would also so fit your trivial and sophmoric debating skills.
  Enjoy yourself…

Posted by BAM on Oct 11, 2004 at 4:40 PM

hey liberal idiots- feminazi-fag lovers you are right you need affirmitive action that is the only way you can get ahead…they certainly can’t do it themselves. fools . get your head out of your asses and quit making this country your socialist sewer….idiots…ignorant self absorbed lily white liberals who feel guilty for being lily white liberals. What the hell is really wrong with you. Baby killers..idiots & fools…have a nice day…

Posted by Carrl on Oct 12, 2004 at 11:15 AM

Listen to those homophobes.

Posted by Neil on Oct 12, 2004 at 1:00 PM

“Freedom is on the march”
Stomp, stomp, stomp…hear it coming?...

Halloween is hardly as scary as election day is going to be. Not only for the presidency but many of the senatorial races as well! Just to mention one; the race in Oklahoma. The Republican candidate is a Dr. that suggests that Dr’s that perform abortions should get the death penalty!
I have never noticed such a radically right leaning representative group before!

(Bush’s base is frightening to say the least. Do I hear The Brown Shirts stomping their heels?)

The polls are somewhat deceiving, as many people that are knowledgeable point out, and can’t really be trusted to be that accurate this time around. Depending on which polls you see - it’s an even race thus far, or one has a slight lead.
Recall that Bush was supposedly ahead by five points or so going into election day in 2000 but still lost the popular vote by a half a million.
The debates are drawing a larger audience than usual and this third debate is crucial to say the least.

The real fear for many of us is that 50% of the electorate - could yes, be right wing, misogynist, homophobic, racist, and gun toting good ol’ boys, but many could also could be ignorant religious fundamentalists (or both). Ok, throw in some nice well meaning(but less informed) people into the blender and you have Bush’s support.
So many issues that concern us are not brought up and I have to continue to fault the media. [If it were about a stained blue dress or the use of Cuban cigars and an intern exposing her breasts we’d hear more than we would like to know about “it” or what “it” means.]
Even the Catholic church is anti-Kerry. Why, because of his intelligent position on abortion? It makes no sense whatsoever that a church that presumably defends the poor, the sick, the elderly, and the sanctity of life - would support this president that is doing all he can over and under the radar to intentionally and inadvertently hurt these groups while waging and unjust war - sacrificing thousands of lives!

On the News Hour they had opposing views regarding stem cell research. The opposing side had “Catholic” in his organization title and of course argued against stem cell research - without interestingly mentioning the almighty or any religious positions.
There is no doubt that ethical questions need to be addressed in this debate but if we’re to allow mythology to undermine our progress toward the curing of many destructive diseases, seems to be not only ignorant but immoral as well!
The campaign by right wing ideologues to replace scientific rational thinking with irrational religious mythology and dogma for instance is outrageous!...Where is Clarence Darrow when you need him?

Someone proposed the notion that behind the ever increasing deficit is that the Bush Cheney logic is that many states will go bankrupt because the Gov. will have to stop providing funding for various programs because they can’t afford it due to the Hindenberg size deficit, (we know what happened to it).  I’m shocked that this statement has not gotten the attention that it deserves in the ever apparently somnambulant media..
 
There has been some interesting input from people in Europe regarding how Bush is perceived, as, to say the least a very disturbing fellow, and Europeans and Americans abroad are hoping he is defeated.

The shrub (a diminutive Bush) will require some serious pruning if not totally eradicated; as one poster cleverly said: we’ll have to do some landscaping and remove the bushes from the white house.

Keep the faith you all…“Freedom is on the march”

Posted by BAM on Oct 12, 2004 at 2:34 PM

I love the term “homophobe” which implies that the one who is repulsed by homosexuality is the one with the problem. Yeah right keep telling yourself that, you might even believe if you tell yourself enough. The gays are the one with the problem. They are the ones that need mental help. America is waking up to the “gay” agenda and all it’s sick implications.

Posted by Whitey on Oct 12, 2004 at 3:43 PM

What “gay “agenda are you referring to?
Lets organize a search party and try and find it.
You can lead the party Carl or whitey. Will we be wearing any uniforms, say with armbands and rounding up these “gays” to put them to the question. “are you now or have you ever had sex with a member of the same sex”. Then what, leader?
I want to hear you righteous agenda!Your solution
to this human trait that manifests itsef in a percentage of the human species, a natural variation of human sexuality.
What do you think that being “white” gives you the right to hate while supporting your naked
emperor? Your Fuhrer?

Posted by bushwhacker on Oct 12, 2004 at 4:23 PM

the gay agenda that tries to force homo boy scout leaders. the agenda that takes religion out of school and teaches homosexuality. the agenda that is cramming gay “marriage” down America’s throat. The forcing of the PC agenda that DEMANDS we aceept homosexuality. NAMBLA..Will and Grace trying to normalize gay lifestyle. The pending legislation in Canada that the Bible into “hate” literature…Gay “pride” as if there is anything to be proud about being a sick degenerate in need of mental health…you want more????

Posted by whitey on Oct 12, 2004 at 5:09 PM

We do have laws against abhorrent and aberrent behaviors.  Gays are not responsible nor are they suffering from the deviant behavior of pedophilia as your diatribe tries to suggest. In fact, it could be argued that heterosexuals are more inclined to be pedophiles, women abusers, child abusers, drunkards, and display more criminal behaviors than “gays”.  NAMBLA and the subscribers to their sick magazine and behavior are not related to anything like “Will and Grace” [I’ll say up front, I have never watched this program so, can’t comment much on it’s quality] a TV show. Frankly your associations are far fetched and once again indicative of your narrow Archie Bunker mentality. Why are you concerned with a TV program that apparently appeals to heterosexuals as well as presumably to homosexuals, otherwise I suspect it wouldn’t still be on.
No body is trying to get you to accept “homosexuality”, in fact I’d guess that no body is trying to educate you regarding anything at all. You’re obviously not capable of being educated.
Your intolerant and should fit right into your party of bigots and hate mongers. Is that the neo-nazi party?
A posting after the Dafur column a person calling themself “The Realist” made similiar ridiculous conclusions about black people as Whitey (how appropriate) seems to be attempting to do about gay people. If these people are not the same they apply the same twisted logic to support their very limited intellects and lack of compassion for the human condition.
Heterosexual married couples are not threatened in any way because of civil unions or gay marriages.  Your attitude is more of a threat to a diverse and thriving society than the gay life style. You should be living in a totalitarian country where you could find acceptance.
Go and spread your hate among like minded people…there are plenty of conservative/Republican sites aren’t they. Well, even they have standards and probably wouldn’t accept your low quality diatribes.
Perhaps you should read some William Bennett, that purveyor of piety and virtuous Republican hypocrisy. At least you might learn how to martial a reasonable argument even if not a winning one.

Posted by bushwhacker on Oct 12, 2004 at 9:00 PM

Oh give me a break. thata the only liberal argument.

Oh gimme a break. thats what you liberals do when faced with the truth. you whine about hate and try to make yourselves seem much more educated and sophisticated than you really are. Your arguments are so pathetic you really ought to hear yourself. You are what is part of the problem with this world. You have your mind so open that you accept any ridiculous BS anybody puts in it. Homosexuality is the ultimate narccism and a sad statement on the decay of our society. Go get yourself some help. You need it.

Posted by whitey on Oct 13, 2004 at 12:14 AM

Carl/Whitey/AKA Red & Red white and blue
“Oh gimme a break.”

We’d be only to willing to give you that!

I think you have exhausted all the hot air in your balloon.

Posted by bushwhacker on Oct 13, 2004 at 5:54 AM

Ok ‘Whitey’, I’d like to think that I am a free thinker, I’ve got an open mind and do not adhere to conservative/liberal labels.  I like to explore all sides of an issue before really forming my stance on it.  I’d like to give you the opportunity to let me know WHY I should think that homosexuality is the decay of our society.  Please don’t just tell me because its the ‘ultimate narccism’, go beyond that and explain to me WHY…WHY is a woman who stands up for women’s rights a feminazi?  WHY is it neccesary for anyone to be able to own an automatic weapon for their personal use?  Please go beyond the 2nd amendment and tell my WHY.  WHY does the US have to right to use aggressive preemptive force when another country may not?  Move past the angry name calling and convince me that you’re right.  You must have good reason to feel so strongly and I’m really curious to know those reasons…..please enlighten me.  Maybe you’ll change my mind.

Posted by esa on Oct 13, 2004 at 6:20 AM

Whitey:
Go ahead and articulate a reasonable reply to
“esa”!Thus far you haven’t shown the ability to do that.
We are all in this together and our votes are important. If we have learned anything from the 2000 fiasco
it’s that we can’t afford to watch from the sidelines our country being taken over by a personable liar and a corporate interest’s lackey. We are either a democracy by, of, and for the people or we abdicate that responsibility as a voter and sit home and watch the take-over of the country on TV.
VOTE!

Posted by BAM on Oct 13, 2004 at 6:52 AM

1 homosexuality is the indication of western society just like it was for Rome. Nomatter how hard you try you will never convince 80% of the people in this country it is legitimate. you want to be gay go ahead but leave marriage alone. leave the kids alone.
2 womens rights are different than what is espoused by hate groups like NOW and their ilk.
3 automatic weapons have been illegal since the early 1930’s you know not of what you speak
4 pre-emptive attacks bring the battle to the source. have you noticed no attacks on US soil since 9/11?
do not expect me to stand up for what you believe in when you denigrate what I believe in ..that is how wars are started.

Posted by whitey on Oct 13, 2004 at 6:53 AM

bam I will vote! but I would rather vote for my dog for president that a Massachussets Liberal! Kerry is to the left of Ted (Chappaquiddick) Kennedy if that is possible.

Posted by Whitey on Oct 13, 2004 at 7:21 AM

This person has his head so far up his ideological rear end that all they can see is (pardon) crap.
Why he insists on providing us with his venom is beyond understanding.
Don’t ask him any questions because he is incapable of providing reasonable explanations for his blatant
and frankly distorted interpretations of human behaviors or history.
Perhaps what we’re dealing with here is a bottom feeding denizen of society that only interprets life and humanity in terms of what he ingests and expels through his sphincter muscles!
Closer and in touch with his limbic system than in higher evolved life forms. Reptilian.
But they have a place, like rodents and other vermin but I would suggest it’s not on this site!

Whitey: In your reply to “BAM” you spin further out trying to express yourself…I feel sorry for your dog!

Posted by bushwhacker on Oct 13, 2004 at 7:31 AM

boy bushwackoffer you sure do know how to hurt my feelings. Like I would care what YOU think. You obviously have never had a thought in your little head that was not put there by some socialist wacko. Get real. You calling me names is quite funny and sad..you are a sad delusional little person who knows not the truth..why don’t you read something other than the Village Voice or Boston Globe for your enlightenment.

Posted by Whitey on Oct 13, 2004 at 7:49 AM

Feelings?
Don’t care!
Funny and sad - indeed!
“delusional”
Your are not worth spending any further effort on responses to your nonsense!
Fini!

Posted by bushwhacker on Oct 13, 2004 at 8:28 AM

it’s funny how liberals always run with confronted with the truth-like Nicholson said -you can’t handle the truth.

Posted by whitey on Oct 13, 2004 at 12:50 PM

It’s funny what pathological, Machiavellian liars each and every wing-nut is.  It’s like a virus that only affects republicans.  There also seems to be a strong correlation between being republican and having an exceptionally small penis.

Posted by Lefty on Oct 13, 2004 at 7:13 PM

Mulcahey’s article is quite a nice piece, I must admit. I do hate to go back to history, but the concept of “organizing discontent” is not an original one, it was applied very successfully by the National Socialist Party in Germany in the late 20s and early 30s to get to power. What Orwell and Huxley desacribed in their utopian novels (and the Russian Zamyatin in the novel “We” decades before, note the title) was in fact an existing reality. I have spoken to Germans who lived in those times, and the honest ones simply say: We were desperate, there was chaos in the streets. Well, who was making the chaos? Those who purported to heal it.

Something similar happened in the USA as well, if I get the jist of the article. What I find fascinating as a contradiction, is on the one hand the obsession for “individualism” in America and on the other hand the incredible monotony of the country’s social fabric and the inability of so many people to actually think for themselves and make the logical, intellectual steps to see what is the higher or deeper truth. They have been convinced that thinking is bad, evil, yeah, of Satan, believing is grace. Believing in what? the formerly Swaggering Swaggart, caught with his pants down? Pat Robertson, whose Christian Coalition made millions in many a non Christian endeavor? A friend of mine from Nebraska received a teddy bear for her daughter from her nice, middle class, kind and fundamentalist parents (who support these Elmer Gantrys blindly). It was fine until she found that the little poochypooh speaks. It says “What would Jesus say?”... if you press its crotch. Well, some fundamentalist toymaker has a good sense of humor.

Democracy is a difficult business and requires individual analysis and doubting. “Doubting Thomas” is right in the Bible, he represents the part of us that is willing to question what we are being told. In the words of the Spanish priest and philosopher Miguel de Unamuno: Faith that does not doubt is a dead faith. Perhaps the finest work on this topic in recent years, is the highly socially-critical book by Curtis White called The Middle Mind. I commend it to anyone. I would say, he goes beyondd the concepts of right and left and looks from above. Here is a quote to close this long message (p. 174):
... Incapable of self-reflection and openness to the possibility of “becoming,” we sink into the Godlessness of mere assertion. We sink into great and bloody assertions of the Truth. In the place of philosophic honesty, we get lies “age old and thick from the Spielbergs, the public broadcasting gurus, the neo-cons like Harold Bloom, the economic planning experts like [Richard] Florida, and, of course, at the top of the political food chain, our sometimes elected but in the fall of 2000 judicially selected president. Their lies are nothing less than the papering over of murder. They apologize for the knowing arrangement for suffering and torture in Indonesia, and Beirut, and El Salvador, and Afghanistan, and Iraq, and Cuba, and Palestine, and on and on. And yet we continue to assume that our well-being is dependent on these “foreign” disasters. Inevitably, though, the effects of our well-oiled disaster machine will impinge upon us, too, whether as blowback or as simple facts of the industrialized world. Consider the fact that while your grandmother’s chances of getting breast cancer were one in twenty, your wife/daughter/sister’s chances are one in eight….”

Admittedly, George Bush has not apologized for Iraq. But he has given excuses… Anyway, I believe strongly, that wehen we start turning off our televisions occasionally and start feeding our minds with intelligent and critical material and raising the the lowest common denominator to a higher level, we as a democracy will flourish and the nation as a whole will be far better off. First and foremost, we will have better choices of presidents and candidates, and once again, we may go to the polls and start voting FOR someone, instead of AGAINST the other guy.At that point we will realize that the environment is critical for our survival, and that war brings only misery and more war.

Posted by Marton on Oct 14, 2004 at 12:01 AM

hey lefty my penis is big enough to choke you, you faggot

Posted by whitey on Oct 14, 2004 at 6:10 AM

Well, Whitey, thank you your tasteful comment.  Do you know how to spell “offensive”.  How about, “cretan”?  There is a certain element in our society that I can only designate as scum.  They have always been with us and always will be.  I usually choose to ignore them.  The bible says ” Resist ye not evil, but overcome evil with good”.And with that message for guidance there will be nothing further addressed to you from me. It’s kind of like obscene phone calls.  If one merely hangs up, the sicko gets discouraged and goes elsewhere.  Toodle ooh.

Posted by Beverly Cummins/spangler on Oct 14, 2004 at 9:04 AM

Ms. vitey, I sink your biddy boy hat just cut of his own schwanz. I tolt you giff him his mets and put him to pet. No, don’t pett him anymooor he already hat serious how to you say, minderwertigkeitskomplexe… you kenow, apout schwanz und so. H He apparently vants to stopfen it town somvun’s ssroat. He iss leider peeyont sserapee. I voot hef him committet. Yes, ms. vitey, your biddy boy.

Posted by Dr. Freud on Oct 14, 2004 at 12:32 PM

Well miz cummins hyphen spangler don’t you sound like perfect little politically correct feminazi. You are the scum little girl. does your bible tells you its ok to teach children to be gay . does it say that a womens “choice” to murder her baby? Whose bible do you read the gloria steinhem bible. You and YOUR ilk are what has turned america into a cesspool of fags and feminazi. Oh hey Dr, Fraud shut up you idiot what are you 5 or something?

Posted by Whitey on Oct 14, 2004 at 1:29 PM

C’mon Whitey!  Who do you think yer kiddin.  You’re a white, wing-nut, embittered about your stature in life, and elsewhere.  And most of all, your defensiveness is a DEAD GIVAWAY.  Pthpthpthpth . . . BLAHAHAHAHAHAAAA. 

I think I’ll start callin you shorty.  You and tomato faced Carl.  What a couple of pathetic wing-nuts you are.

Posted by Lefty on Oct 14, 2004 at 1:29 PM

Lefty is that really you?? You’re not kidding anybody your the head of the Che Guavara fan club aren’t you. Is this the only way you can get chicks at your college by being a liberal idiot? You are pathetic left wing nut who probably wants to marry Neil in a very special and loving politically correct ceremony. Yeah i am white and a man so in liberal speak that makes me a criminal right?? Iam not “embittered” about my life I am just mystified by your lack of morals and common sense when it comes to almost everything .

Posted by whitey on Oct 14, 2004 at 1:46 PM

common miz Hyphen spangler I know you read my post and are right now going thru serious PMS hysteria but it’s OK you’ll feel better

Posted by whitey on Oct 14, 2004 at 1:48 PM

Oh, folks.
The fool that identify’s himself as Carl, Whitey, Red or red white and blue are one in the same.
He can’t hide his poor grammar and low level of intelligence.
Ignore him!
He’s feeding off the responses to his drivel.

Posted by the looking glass on Oct 14, 2004 at 2:33 PM

you libs are really a lot. You spew forth your mindless drivel. I counter and you come back with insults. Then you go after me again and again. When I try to defend myself you play 5 year old games. You can dish out the lies but you can’t handle the truth. That is why America is quickly discarding liberal lies and Democrats who are “carriers” of this BS ideology. So go ahead and pat each other on the back and wallow in your misguided self righteousness. But I know the truth and so does the real america. Oh an looking glass you might be REAL suprised to learn the truth about my intelligence although I do admit my typing skills need improvement.

Posted by whitey on Oct 14, 2004 at 3:22 PM

Whitey:
One thing that is so obvious that even you can’t deny it. You seem to be odd man out in this forum and if your going to continue barking at people that want to talk intelligently about issues they’re going to attempt to shut the barking dog up. They will eventually even resort to disparaging you in similar language.
Your presence within this continuing debate has been totally disingenuous; you don’t seem to be interested in informing people of why your view is better, no, you prefer to use pejorative sentences and unsubstantiated accusations. When you have been asked direct questions - you have not answered them.
Your are not serving your cause well sir. If you believe what you have been saying then write letters to the editor, join groups with similar views and quit wasting your time and our’s here.
Thank you.

Posted by the looking glass on Oct 14, 2004 at 7:39 PM

Looking glass, I agree and disagree with you about Whitey. I have read lots of these posts, and they do sound like venting, so they are just a waste of energy. Apart from a lot of hatred, public references to his dingdong, etc., I haven’t seen much coherence there. It’s certainly not my idea of “morality,” which he also invokes. On the other hand, where he cares to vent that stuff is his business, and the Web is a free country. I don’t have to agree with him, but beyond the bluster and insulting language, he has an opinion, albeit a rather narrow and violent one, that is obviously put together from his experience in life and his history. That’s what our opinions are. I grew up abroad, in several countries, learned languages, in a family of readers, I have met a wide range of people throughout my life, all kinds, colors and opinions, and it shaped my view of the world. I don’t care if homosexuals marry, I lose no sleep over it. It neither threatens nor delights, it just is, and it’s as old as the hills, so getting one’s gander up about it is truly a waste of time. If the Bible has anything to say about it, well it’s too bad, the Bible was written and translated by people with a motive, a strong political and social motive. And like the Quran and other “bibles,” it’s been used to justify mass murder and oppression. Some who read it start whistling It’s A Wonderful World, others begin to goosestep and rant against “fags” and “feminazi”. Admittedly, the latter have found a leader in W, but this too shall pass.

Posted by Talleyrand on Oct 15, 2004 at 12:28 AM

well it’s all of you against me…I like those odds. You would not know civil, intelligent discourse if it hit you in the face. You are the most close minded, mean spirited( isn’t that one of your phrases?) and hypocritical bunch of wimps that i have ever heard. You are pompous and self righteous enought to BE Ted Kennedy. I have read on the other boards that the “death” of the American way is to be applauded. I have heard how great europe is. I have heard you all bitch, moan and complain about Bush and equate him with nazis and everything else and > You folks are seriously sick, delusional and deranged. You cannot win by public opinion so you take over the courts.the media (what liberal media?) and the colleges to push your agenda and still the real America fights you. I sincerely hope you good people come to your senses about things. You must understand that YOU foster and encourage hate with your sensless attacks on me, theis country, and this president. If Bush wins in Nov then what are you gonna do?? The democratic party ( which suprisingly I was part of for 20 yrs) will be finished and will have to regroup without all you hard lefties….good day

Posted by Whitey on Oct 15, 2004 at 4:15 AM

Rant, rant, rant… But there it is, the Converted One, yet another bit of biography popping up. And lest we forget, from the lunatic fringe, the center looks extreme. Whitey, do you ever stop ranting to think? I think Dr. Freud is wrong, there is some serious paranoia going on here “Everyone is against me”... Just cool down, you are getting th attention you need by this, I realize, but it’s kind of silly, isn’t it? Your statement puts you at around ealrly forties, is that your experience in life? And the Democratic Party used to have the likes of Rankin and Strom Thurmond in it, so that is no referrence. Look at that Zell character from Alabama or wherever, somewhere in the hookworm belt… He is like Peter Sellers in Dr. Strangelove. Coming to think of it…

By the way, given all the systems of government available, I still believe a solid monarchy is the best. Kings and Queens have been much maligned. Actually, most were educated to carry out their duties and tended to be quite intelligent, articulate and savvy. And leaving the vote to the Great Unwashed is not always advisable, it does happen that the majority of the people are wrong most of the time, and that some pathological mama’s boy does rise to the top of the herd.

Posted by Talleyrand on Oct 15, 2004 at 5:21 AM

Hey Shorty, I mean Whitey,

You come to a liberal forum and call yourself Whitey for a reason - to pick a fight.  OK, you’ve got one.  You’re an idiot.  Your president is a pathological liar, a crook and an ass hole who thinks he talks to God and uses fascist, born-again, evangelical code words in a debate like “OBGyn’s can’t practice their love with women” and “I’m going to appoint Justices who disagree with the Dred Scott decision.” He took America to war for personal gain, he gives tax cuts to himself, and lies about everything he’s done. 

Shortey, based on your obvious bigotry and stupidity you are either another born-again, evangelical ass hole or just too stupid to see what a psychopathic moron your president is, which is basically the same thing.

If nothing else, shortey, I rest with the comfort of knowing that George W. Bush will spend eternity in hell with the rest of his ancestors and his family.  When you see him there you can reminisce about the good old days.

Posted by Lefty on Oct 15, 2004 at 8:16 AM

OK-OK I will bother you facists no longer. I find no fun in it anymore. You are all boring and monotone in your little rants. I get tired of hearing how bad Christian people are and that Bush eats spotted owl for breakfast and wants to kill us all. enjoy the little world that you have esconced yourself in with the self assurance that you are right and go to sleep feeling good that you have fought the good fight. I am bored with your snobbery and meaness. Always remember to “Hate Whitey” And sleep well freaks.

Posted by whitey on Oct 15, 2004 at 1:28 PM

No brother, we love you Whitey, we really do from the bottom of these here pants. We all God’s chirren, you know, and we all have religion, and since you spread yours, I spread mine like the joyous seed of the cottongrower. I got religion juss like you do, hallelujah, only in religion class, when I was also a biddyboy, I couldn’t unnerstan why if the Lawd was so down on sex, he made these arms so nice an long and these hands so fit for grabbin, and why when young Flora would cross her legs somehow them knickerbockers would get a little tight around the buttons. The Lawd must be a mean trickster, giving all that pleasure and sayin, you have fun, boy, you gonna boil in oil for the rest of all time. So I figured quickly that it was the preachers that got it all wrong, cause life begins with a roll in the hay and that has been my philosophy since and I say ooooo yeah, praise the Lawd for the comin together of the woman and the man, cause we are made for just that. And even Massah O’Reilly likes his hormones, though he’s a little weird about it, and wants to keep others from getting their fair share of the juice of heaven. Now I’ze older than you so let me give you some recommendations heah from a guy who’s also got religion, the same Lawd as is always intoned by our massah Bush and them freky Cardinals: You dont go shoving your meat down people’s throats, it’s not made for that exclusively. You sound uptight and afraid, the Lawd has given you two long arms and hands, and they’re not meant to grope the keyboard and disseminate nonsense, take them and polish your doorknob till it opens on the Kingdom of heaven, and you’ll see the light. And then try gettin a real woman, not some goodie two shoes that says yes massah whitey as you wish massah whitey, but I mean a woman who is strong and comfortable in her self and you won’t ever feel so bad no more. And those preachers who tell you it’s makes you fry, they is full of the diahorrea of fundamentalist blindness. You’ll be hot. Be good now, we love ya.

Posted by BBB on Oct 16, 2004 at 1:28 AM

boyse 3-B youse sure is adumb niggah (negro) use better gose get yurself a white woman soon so as you can smarten up. use is a dumb monkey for sure

Posted by dwb on Oct 16, 2004 at 8:18 AM

The comment made “dwb” is to say the least shameful and despicable…
The tragedy in Dafur is indicative of how the western world in particular has compartmentalized events such as this and will only act when members of the press draws attention to them. We failed to act before in Rwanda and although we’re superficially doing something now it to little to late for the dead, and the continued slaughter there.
The comment by “dwb” and one other previously (under the Dafur article)indicates a hatred and ignorant view of the human condition. These negative comments indicate that they have no moral or ethical appreciation of their fellow human beings.
Last night they had a great discussion on C-SPAN with a distinguished panel of 5 speakers, each spoke for ten minutes initially on the war, ethics, and the role of religion in public life, and made a salient point about our involvement in Dafur. 
I couldn’t do any justice to the content of the discussion here but hope you are seeing these important and very thought provoking forums.
  An interesting element of the discussion of course was the role of religion and how certain lobbying groups can influence policies. They of course mentioned the particular influence of the Evangelical right and their apparent prominence and influence in the current administration as well as other influential lobbying factions.
Bottom line is the consensus was that the war was not ethically or morally justified at any level and that the administration’s evolving reasons and eventual conclusion that we were doing it for the humanitarian purpose - to free the Iraqi people from the tyrant was also wrong. If we were interested in doing a humanitarian invasion (one suggested) we would have been applauded and had indeed saved a grateful people - if we invaded Dafur and stopped the genocide before embarking on a “grand diversion” in Iraq!
There were so many well articulated insights into terrorism, religion, unilateralism, multilateralism, ethics,
globalism, and our role in the world as currently being defined by this administration that you could only come away with further evidence that the Bush administration has failed at every level and we as a powerful nation has lost our moral compass and the respect of most of the civilized world.

You can read more and learn from going to pewforum.org ...the event is called “liberty and power”

Posted by BAM on Oct 16, 2004 at 11:52 AM

hay bam if’n youse is really sad about us poor negroes in afirica why don’t you come helpus we like white boys . bring lottsa cash and some rap records and watermelons we just loves watermellon. you stupidniggerlover.

Posted by dwb on Oct 16, 2004 at 2:45 PM

What’s this - another incarnation of that bigoted moron Carl/Whitey/Red/red white and blue, now calling himself “dwb”...
what’s that stand for “dumb white boy”?

Your pathetic.

Posted by the looking glass on Oct 16, 2004 at 4:34 PM

If the looking glass is correct.
He claimed to be intelligent in one post. Compared to what a rodent.
Any attempt to address these issues by reasonable people in a compassionate way is criticized by this scoundrel. There are not enough adjectives to define this “pathetic” fool…

Posted by abs on Oct 16, 2004 at 4:43 PM

Ladies and gentlemen, rodents. It is just one guy, but so monotonous as to be recognizable within about two sentences. It’s either that, or iut’s just the monotony of the Monday-morning Nazi, pathetic and whiny about the world, all lining up to grind the same axe at a single grindstone, too flushed with envy about the big beautiful world out there and ready to destroy it. This fellow does not believe what he rants of, he is in need of attention, it’s another form of Attention Deficit Syndrome, and there are no meds against it, getting a life is the solution. If any of you feel really insulted by him (maybe it’s a her, or a something in between), I commend you to Greg Palast’s “Best Democracy Money Can Buy”, the 2003 edition, chapter one and two. He quotes some of the encouraging letters he received after exposing what should have been another Watergate, namely the stealing of the Florida election in 2000 (exposure that the US media did not carry even in Dec. 2000!!!). The tone and language is identical. No ideas, no thought, nothing except rant and grunt. Be cool. It’s proof that evolution is not always fairly distributed as much as we would like it, and that Neanderthal is still within our midst. And don’t go thinking that Dimwitted White Bumpkin above (and his other incarnations, be they his own or the kkkollective one)is visible to the naked eye. He’s playacting rather well, doesn’t have the real KKK lingo down pat. He’s lacking the real southern humor.

Posted by Talleyrand on Oct 16, 2004 at 11:21 PM

BAM… and others! Just check out the NY Times Opinion today (Sunday oct. 17). They back Kerry, which is hardly surprising. Their reasoning is very nicely put, clear, concise, it’s a nice “need I say more” bit of opinion. If Rove doesn’t start spreading rumors about Kerry’s sex life, or Rumsfeld doesn’t start some major bombardment to draw attention away from the election, I think Kerry is in the clear for a win. This assumes that GOP fundamentalists like Mr. Sproul leave the ballot boxes and registration cards alone. That is perhaps the most difficult hurdle facing Kerry.

Posted by Marton on Oct 17, 2004 at 3:50 AM

Read the NYT endorsement…as Marton says, that’s not a surprise.
Another (not an endorsement but an inciteful
criticism of the Bush administration can be read here [ CDC-CentralNewsletter@yahoogroups.com]

My take on the article (from a Russian paper) is that it’s just another example and contrast to the journalistic timidness in this country.
In the foreign press they can legitimately use Hitler as an example to illustrate Bush’s policy, but here no one would dare.
Just as an aside regarding our press corps and their somewhat sanctimonious reasoning and defense that they are like doctors or priests and defend their right not to reveal information.
I saw one day this week the female reporter that is risking 18 months in jail if she doesn’t disclose what she knows (whatever that is) in court. She and her attorney of course claim the tried and true right of privilege and has to protect her source. Now, I can agree to much of that but when a crime such as the leaking of Joseph Wilson’s [CIA] wife’s name to R. Novak and others and then published by Mr. Novak
with apparent immunity from any prosecution is to me outrageous. Novak has not been subpoenaed; he continues to appear on TV shows to provide his smug opinions. Why does a “journalist” feel the need to protect their source when the source has committed a crime. What if Valorie Plame had been killed because she was discovered to be an agent by the enemy? Her position was indeed compromised and she had to relocate because of Novaks disclosure.
Novak as I recall defended his position on Meet The Press with Russert and more or less said that he believed that Plame’s position was not harmed and that she was in a desk position or words to that effect. Why did he find it necessary to reveal her name when other’s would not? It couldn’t be because he’s a staunch supporter of the president’s bad policies could it?

The president being wired is another example of something that could have been easily explained if anyone in the press were interested in discovering the truth. And if there were a simple explanation they could have stopped all this speculation. And if he indeed has been wired on occasion then the people in this country should know that and see him as the incompetent man he is!
When the media takes the time in exposing the facts as to what the candidates have said and the realities. I noticed that they have never pointed out how the Republican’s have cut benefits for veterans and their families, the same veterans that are sacrificing their lives for this presidents “myopic” and grand
distraction! This administration that sent these troops to war without the proper tools! (Bush likes to point out that Kerry voted against the 87 billion but it was never asked why the money wasn’t used to make sure that the troops had what they needed and what about the money that was diverted by the administration into Afghanistan?)
More of our soldiers are dying every day for this misadventure…(7 today!)
The religious criticism in the article is also accurate and amazing that it’s not appreciated by the religious here in this country.
Certainly it’s in our best interest now that democracy prevails in Iraq but from all the experts that have commented on this it may take decades and many more lives before that happens, and there is also the chance that things will become much worse in the region because of our invasion than existed before under Saddam.
“Bush needs to go” is without a doubt the simple thought that should enter every so-called undecided voter’s mind, for the sake of - not only America’s but the world’s well being!

Posted by BAM on Oct 17, 2004 at 11:06 AM

Sorry, the Russian article can be found below…

CDC-CentralNewsletter@yahoogroups.com

Posted by Bruce A Morgan on Oct 17, 2004 at 11:09 AM

carl.
baby boo, little baby boo.
your mixing it up, you probably do hate me, much more than these nice people responding to you. I do acknowledge war with you. god isn’t dead yet, but he it is inevitable. we (human evolution) made him up (fear of the unknown, need of comforting rational for the absurd life (irrational world becoming conscious in the individual)). so i’m the atheisit who has acknowledged your war and have decided to fight as hard as the ones on your side fight. look for us, out there. the ones with our big toes in your asshole, my brown friend.

Posted by absurd fish on Oct 17, 2004 at 12:11 PM