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The lesson of the 20th century, one that must be learned in the 21st, is as follows: political freedom and economic freedom, and social justice, and equality are inseparable. Whatever gains are proclaimed by taking the short-cut of sacrificing political freedom and the rule of law for economic and social justice winds up getting the recipients neither. Totalitarianism and the New Class are the result.
The path that works is the Vital Center, the Welfare state, and the examples of Sweeden and Finland are the best models. Yes, to the Finnish station—but let us realize that the tracks are laid sound so that the train of history cannot be derailed.
Posted by Steven C. Hill on Jan 21, 2004 at 3:13 PM
In our societies we make the big choices by what our smaller choices are. A progressive society does not branch out into a radical idea without developing the idea on different levels first. Without developing initial levels a good idea can be turned into an anti-progressive platform. Healthy nation-states are not dependent on other states to use as prototypes. However, they may look to a system when manipulated to fit into thier laws and national temperment. That being said, ultimately freedom comes at the cost of the past.
Posted by Doug on Jan 21, 2004 at 4:53 PM
Zizek must be an environmentalist, cause he sure likes to recycle. Slavoj, my man, its great that you brought this argument to the In These Times audience, but your fans are waiting for newer, greater analogies, paradoxes and perhaps something about the out-of-control Kinder Egg craze here in Canada.
Posted by J Cummings on Jan 21, 2004 at 6:02 PM
Greetings,
Shortly before his death, Lewis Mumford, a truly _independent_ intellectual, said this: “Democracy grants every possible freedom in the world except one: to opt out.”
All this reminds of the old philosophical dictum: “Your freedom ends just short of my nose.” And, reactionary freedom ends nowhere, as they have now devolved. They can do whatever they wish to anyone’s “nose.” May Lenin’s chickens come home to roost.
daigu
Posted by daigu on Jan 22, 2004 at 12:54 AM
How refreshing to see a non-hysterical reference to Lenin and his thoughts.
IMHO: ‘Freedom’ is a con. ‘Liberty’ is the real thing.
Posted by Matt Quinn on Jan 22, 2004 at 11:10 PM
It’s too bad that Lenin’s life ended so soon. We can only guess as to what he would have done. I believe that he truly desired freedom and/or liberty for his countrymen and for the masses of people all over the world. Two things are certain; he inspired many people in his life and ever since, and at the very least Soviet history would have been different had he lived longer. However we choose to struggle for justice is a definite choice that we all are free to make. I am confident that people will never abandon this struggle.
Posted by jimmy on Jan 24, 2004 at 7:10 PM
“Democracy grants every possible freedom in the world except one: to opt out.”
Mumford was apparently “independent” of intellect. This is among the most moronic axioms I have ever read.
Posted by Nus on Jan 28, 2004 at 2:24 PM
Socialism is a failure. Are you absolutely a cretin, or what? Maybe a fan of mass murder? The Nazi’s were socialists shithead! So were the Soviet scumbags. Grow up!
Posted by patwest on Jan 30, 2004 at 11:03 PM
Zizek’s Lenin and Ours
Posted to www.marxmail.org on January 31, 2004
An “In These Times” article by cultural theorist Slavoj Zizek titled “What Is To Be Done (With Lenin)?” has been circulating on the Internet (http://www.inthesetimes.com/print.php?id=568_0_4_0). Today, a link to it popped up on neoconservative Denis Dutton’s “Arts and Letters” website, obviously a sign that Zizek was doing the left no favors when he wrote this article. Dutton is like a vacuum cleaner sweeping up every hostile reference to Marxism that can be found in the major media and academic journals. Despite his obligatory genuflection to Lenin, Zizek’s Lenin serves more as a token of ‘epater le bourgeois’ rebelliousness rather than a serious attempt to make him relevant in the year 2004.
full: http://www.columbia.edu/~lnp3/mydocs/fascism_and_war/zizek_lenin.htm
Posted by Louis Proyect on Jan 31, 2004 at 2:05 PM
Zizek’s at it again.
Posted by Elizabeth Dorn on Jan 31, 2004 at 6:12 PM
Zizek’s at it again.
Posted by Monica Gandhi on Jan 31, 2004 at 6:13 PM
Mr.
Posted by Wild Monk on Jan 31, 2004 at 7:49 PM
Page 1 of 1 pages
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Reader Comments
The lesson of the 20th century, one that must be learned in the 21st, is as follows: political freedom and economic freedom, and social justice, and equality are inseparable. Whatever gains are proclaimed by taking the short-cut of sacrificing political freedom and the rule of law for economic and social justice winds up getting the recipients neither. Totalitarianism and the New Class are the result.
The path that works is the Vital Center, the Welfare state, and the examples of Sweeden and Finland are the best models. Yes, to the Finnish station—but let us realize that the tracks are laid sound so that the train of history cannot be derailed.
In our societies we make the big choices by what our smaller choices are. A progressive society does not branch out into a radical idea without developing the idea on different levels first. Without developing initial levels a good idea can be turned into an anti-progressive platform. Healthy nation-states are not dependent on other states to use as prototypes. However, they may look to a system when manipulated to fit into thier laws and national temperment. That being said, ultimately freedom comes at the cost of the past.
Zizek must be an environmentalist, cause he sure likes to recycle. Slavoj, my man, its great that you brought this argument to the In These Times audience, but your fans are waiting for newer, greater analogies, paradoxes and perhaps something about the out-of-control Kinder Egg craze here in Canada.
Greetings,
Shortly before his death, Lewis Mumford, a truly _independent_ intellectual, said this: “Democracy grants every possible freedom in the world except one: to opt out.”
All this reminds of the old philosophical dictum: “Your freedom ends just short of my nose.” And, reactionary freedom ends nowhere, as they have now devolved. They can do whatever they wish to anyone’s “nose.” May Lenin’s chickens come home to roost.
daigu
How refreshing to see a non-hysterical reference to Lenin and his thoughts.
IMHO: ‘Freedom’ is a con. ‘Liberty’ is the real thing.
It’s too bad that Lenin’s life ended so soon. We can only guess as to what he would have done. I believe that he truly desired freedom and/or liberty for his countrymen and for the masses of people all over the world. Two things are certain; he inspired many people in his life and ever since, and at the very least Soviet history would have been different had he lived longer. However we choose to struggle for justice is a definite choice that we all are free to make. I am confident that people will never abandon this struggle.
“Democracy grants every possible freedom in the world except one: to opt out.”
Mumford was apparently “independent” of intellect. This is among the most moronic axioms I have ever read.
Socialism is a failure. Are you absolutely a cretin, or what? Maybe a fan of mass murder? The Nazi’s were socialists shithead! So were the Soviet scumbags. Grow up!
Zizek’s Lenin and Ours
Posted to www.marxmail.org on January 31, 2004
An “In These Times” article by cultural theorist Slavoj Zizek titled “What Is To Be Done (With Lenin)?” has been circulating on the Internet (http://www.inthesetimes.com/print.php?id=568_0_4_0). Today, a link to it popped up on neoconservative Denis Dutton’s “Arts and Letters” website, obviously a sign that Zizek was doing the left no favors when he wrote this article. Dutton is like a vacuum cleaner sweeping up every hostile reference to Marxism that can be found in the major media and academic journals. Despite his obligatory genuflection to Lenin, Zizek’s Lenin serves more as a token of ‘epater le bourgeois’ rebelliousness rather than a serious attempt to make him relevant in the year 2004.
full: http://www.columbia.edu/~lnp3/mydocs/fascism_and_war/zizek_lenin.htm
Zizek’s at it again.
Zizek’s at it again.
Mr.
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