George W. Bush’s electoral victory is chilling proof that conservatives have achieved dominance over the flow of information to the American people and that even a well-run Democratic campaign stands virtually no chance for national success without major changes in how the news media operates. It is not an exaggeration to say today that the most powerful nation on earth is… return to article
-
subscribe to print magazine
-
email this article to a friend
-
Reader Comments (122)Page 1 of 1 pagesI LOVE reading your looney articles!! You on the left have had for 40 or more years ABC CBS NBC. The universities the “main stream” press CNN. OH and don’t forget Dan Rather bias who helped you to lose by lying about Bush.You have had all these media mouths whining and lying for you for decades. Then comes FOX and you flip and FOX IS fairer than Danny Rather anyday. Then you get Rush who really flips you out. That is the problem with liberals they don’t understand that people are dying to hear information that does not have your liberqal bias.
These little stories you write on In These Times is great. It proves once again that you don’t get it and never will. You have to put your ideas into ring and let people hear other sides and make their own decisions. You just can’t handle that you no longer have a monopoly on information any longer. Now you have embarrassed yourselves immensely by calling anyone who does not agree with your liberal ideology stupid!
Keep up the good work that you are doing and next time the only votes Dems get will be college professors, “news” reporters and a few old hags from my favorite hate group the National Orginization for bitchy Women..
Posted by redstate on Nov 10, 2004 at 5:55 PM The article is right on target. I hope the Democrats that have the funds will take a good hard look and get off their wallets.
Insanity is doing the same things the same ways, always expecting a different result. The main stream media is controlled by large corporations. They in turn have a great deal at stake in front of the FCC and other government agencies. So they do what they are told. We need a progressive agenda put forth using all the tools available everyday. We’ve got to show Joe beer can, that he has been voting against his own interest.
Posted by Walter Purvis on Nov 10, 2004 at 6:12 PM Great article.
While I would never take my hat off to the chain of right-wing propagandists who are heinously using our public airwaves like their own personal crapper, it’s impressive to stand back and look at the iron grip they’re closing on every means of information dissemination in America. I agree, the (fast becoming marginalized) “reality-based” community needs to take some serious notes and divert attention (serious cash) to correcting the imbalance.
Posted by Jeff Parke on Nov 10, 2004 at 6:40 PM redstate-
Your horrible grammer aside, you fail to address any of the points made in the article. I would venture to guess that you are part of the 60% of Americans that still believe that Saddam was in league with Al Qaeda and was responsible for 9/11. By all means- don’t get distracted with the facts and only tune into media outlets that tell you what you want to hear. I am curious, what does the word ‘liberal’ mean to you? Also, what do you believe is the roll of the media?
Posted by Christopher on Nov 10, 2004 at 7:13 PM The contemptuousness of “redstate” is a fine example of the neo-con language that appeals to the public’s reptilian brain. The right wing has done its homework. They understand both the basics and the subtleties of marketing. They use this understanding to frame their message and to pound it into the heads of a vulnerable public whose critical thinking faculties are rapidly atrophying. People who are pining for easy, one-syllable answers find this kind of uninformed derisiveness compelling.
Progressives need to consider seriously two questions: (1) what is so appealing about this smart-assed attitude, and (2) how can the Progressive message be couched in similar terms when aimed at those who need simplistic answers? The data used by the right wing to accomplish their goals isn’t secret. Any graduate student in market research can describe the principles and their application.
Progressives have been paying too much attention to the message, and not nearly enough attention to tailoring its language to the audiences it needs to reach. Progressives need to get busy and use all this education the right wing loves to accuse them of having, to take back the hearts and medullas oblongata of the voters. I think we might look to Michael Moore for some indication of what needs to be done a lot more of.
Posted by Gayle Osborne on Nov 10, 2004 at 7:16 PM You are 100% right in that this situation did not arise overnite.
The attacks, during the ‘80s, on and ultimate elimination of the “fairness doctrine”, on the baseless position that the “free market” should determine the use of the PUBLIC airwaves, and that an abundance of outlets would preclude the domination of one groups access to exclusion of the other, went without response and with total capitulation given without a whimper.
Any legitimacy of the “abundance of access” argument was totally under undermined when media conglomerates were allowed BY A CHANGE IN THE LAW to expand their empires thru the ownership and ultimately consolidation of multiple tv and radio stations, newspapers and magazines.
We now see the result of the shortsightedness of allowing PUBLIC PROPERTY (the airwaves) to be “de facto” owned by a select few elitists and special interests.
It’s not book burning…it’s worse…it borders on mind control.
Posted by Liberal but Proud on Nov 10, 2004 at 7:33 PM The inane comments of “redstate” are a perfect example of inability of the right in today’s American to engage in reasoned discussion. Not satisfied with remaining ignorant (and incapable of writing a grammatically correct sentence), “redstate” follows the conservative media’s lies to the point of insanity, i.e., the notion that ABC, CBS, NBC, or PBS, for that matter, has been pushing a liberal agenda for 40 years. Any reasonable, thinking person with even a passing familiarity with progressive opinion knows that what mainstream media are pushing has has nothing to do with a progressive or liberal agenda, only with profit. The soundbite here is “the media are as liberal as the conservative corporations who own them.”
There is no hope of reaching people like “redshirt” for whom an unexamined and unthinking reactionary ideology is all that matters, not truth nor justice nor faith. We have to be able to frame the debate for those to whom facts, truth, and the consquences of actions still matter, and hope that reasonable and rational people can still hears us through the din of the likes of Fox “News” and Rush Limbough.
Posted by Scott Hufford on Nov 10, 2004 at 7:56 PM Well mr English teacher how the hell do YOU spell grammar?? And it’s Limbaugh not “Limbough” Thus I define liberal those who live in glass houses and throw stones . There are more of you than me and I still have you outnumered!
I HOPE & PRAY that you get Michael Moore and maybe Al Franken & Ellen Goodman & Ted Kennedy too. America just told you that it was too smart to listen to these piles of steaming offal.(look it up) Like I always say- I don’t believe the liberal media…and I am not alone.
Posted by redstate on Nov 10, 2004 at 8:35 PM Yeah…Hannity, Carlsen, Levin…now THERE are JOURNALISTS!!
Posted by Liberal but Proud on Nov 10, 2004 at 8:42 PM To: Liberal but Proud,
Redstate is entitled to listen to those hate machines that vomit their neo-con drivel on orders from the Whitehouse. I just hope that Redstate is one of those proud boys who are ready to go and fight in Iraq for the benefit of Halliburton and Chaney. He sounds like me before living through Vietnam. Only 58,000 dead and for what? I know, so we don’t have to fight them here. I heard that before.
Posted by Walt Purvis on Nov 10, 2004 at 9:26 PM I enjoy a little conpsiracy theory every now and then (my favorite so far is Cheney responsible for 9/11, tvnewslies.org), so it seems to me that conservatives aren’t just behind the information, but also the other mind-numbing schleck we see on tv. Doesn’t it stand to reason that, seeing as how a tad more then half of America voted for Bush, at least 51 percent have been de-evolved mentally to actually believe he is A) a protector of the people (largest terrorist attack on American soil in history on his watch), B) a moral leader who believes in Jesus and wants to safeguard us from all those scary gay people, and C) a competent commander in chief who knows what he’s doing in Iraq.
So, in my conspiracy theory, is it no possible the conservatives have been steadily dumbing us down so that one day they could release their golden boy? In any decently run country, this guy couldn’t become a county sheriff.
On the subject of the article, I think if liberals were to try and match the conservative media powerhouse, whose to say we wouldn’t become just as bad as they are? I agree we need more independent news orginazations, that’s why I read ITT, but the majority of America, it seems, are just too willing to swallow everything the big news companies tell them. We can’t stoop to their level. If they fight with lies, we have to fight with the truth, with evidence and conviction. We haven’t done that, it seems, since Clinton. I suppose we got comfortable (I don’t remember much of that time, I was just a lad). If there ever was a liberal media bias, its at least decimated, if not overthrown.
As for Redstate, who I’m assuming is a man, he seems to be the stereotypical conservative, white collar, white bred, middle class, homophobic freak. See how mean that sounded? We’re never going to get anywhere if we don’t at least attempt to get along (fat chance, cracker.)
Posted by Josh on Nov 10, 2004 at 10:06 PM I grew up during the VietNam war, and missed the draft by only one year.
But I do remember the division. I remember arguing with my father, a stevedore, the bluest of blue collar workers, over the beatings delivered by some NYC construction workers to a bunch of anti-war students.
I REMEMBER Kent State. Not the PHOTOGRAPH. The actual event.
I remember the despair, the absolute anger and total “heels in the sand” attitudes on both sides.
I remember the friends that came back. The friends that were now unreachable and refused to discuss the experience.
I remember being called names, just like today, because I was somehow “unAmerican” because I thought the whole damn mess was WRONG. And I remember who it was that spouted that crap.
I remember never having received any type of apology…either to me directly…or collectively to all of us that opposed it.
Most of all, I remember those “die hard” proponents…so righteous…so AMERICAN…who simply faded into the background when all their beliefs came crashing down.
Posted by Liberal but Proud on Nov 10, 2004 at 10:48 PM This article shows what wrong with the “progressives” in this country. Certainly the right has built a vast information infrastructure, but a majority Americans are not falling for their diatribes. This infrastructure is now used primarily to hide the right’s crimes. The right has lied, cheated and stolen their way to political dominance. This is not a war of ideas, but a one-sided game where liberals allow the right to get away with anything pure and simple.
For example the author gives legitimacy to Bush’s recent “victory”. This may be expedient, but it is not true. Bush did not achieve an electoral victory, but committed another electoral theft. The author fails to mention very concrete evidence of fraud accross the country. Liberals tend to wear blinders, so they find it easy to look the other way.
The fact is, that all the votes in this contest have not yet been counted and now, some never will be counted. The evidence points to Kerry giving the election to Bush, by quitting early. This effectively nipped a recount fight in the bud. Anti-Bush voters were expecting a close race and were primed for a recount fight. Thanks to Kerry the fight never happened.
Contrary to the right’s disinformation, a majority of Americans voted to oust G.W. Bush in the last election. The evidence for this is there without a doubt. Since the GOP can lie, cheat and steal, without serious challenge, we now have a third-world political system. Massive voter fraud occurred, and as expected the right is using it’s information resources to suppress, discredit, and otherwise keep the people from focusing upon a story that dwarfs watergate by comparison. The left is as usual, trying very hard to act like nothing unsual occurred.
Posted by Rasoul Acheh on Nov 10, 2004 at 10:50 PM I can’t let that last comment stand. Clearly, a free media is the heart and soul of a free people. Anyone who argues with that has no love of democrcay.
Posted by Nellie on Nov 10, 2004 at 11:15 PM redstate i believe it is you who are neo nazi scum dont forget that granddaddy bush helped finance the nazi party…and now hahahahahah neo nazi asskrak (asscroft) is gone…do the same… leave my country you anti american non-serving little girl and you can take any of your bloodline out of here with you and any dead relatives dig them up and get your stink out of my fine mother earth. you are the perfect example of the republicans regime of brain washing and media lobottomies good riddance to bad rubbish and your first statement is the example of what the article is talking about. now get over there in the no breathing zone way away from humanity.
Posted by anti-redstate on Nov 10, 2004 at 11:32 PM has anyone noticed that bush boys picture appears in tv reruns of programs that were produced before he was in office like law and order and such?
i.e. a telivision in the background and radio shows heard in the background etc…
media control and subliminal subterfuge
i’ll take things that make you go hmmm for $200 plz.
Posted by hmmmm now that you mention it on Nov 10, 2004 at 11:43 PM Yes, its true aobut the Right-Wing Behemoth; however, I strongly believe that this election and the last were rampant with high-level voter fraud. Is this why the democrats(from Al Gore to John Kerry)lose and election and keep virtual silence,act like the dog thats been kicked one to many times or AS IF THEY HAVE A GUN TO THEIR HEADS?
The BushCo will make Ashcroft the next Chief Justice,along with Rummsfeld and Evans. But everyone will be looking at is “Roe v. Wade” but what they will be doing is overturning term limitations!
Posted by magistre on Nov 11, 2004 at 12:32 AM dear anti-redstate I did not know that YOU were in charge of the earth or this country. YOU are talking like the nazi. you can’t discuss facts you only think with that little brain of yours. Me thinks it might be you that wants to do a little walking you little twit. what’s the matter run outta KY so things alittle rough “down there”?
But just keep talking the talk cause i know you can’t do the walk.
Posted by redstate on Nov 11, 2004 at 1:11 AM Why can’t we get it together? This seperation is fuled by those “higer ups”. They fill their pockets & destroy our world a little more each day while we stay distracted by all this b.s.! Red & Blue no longer represent your average American. Our democracy is a failure. It’s time for a new vision…
Posted by Will it never end? on Nov 11, 2004 at 2:24 AM ‘George W. Bush’s electoral victory is chilling proof that conservatives have achieved dominance over the flow of information to the American people and that even a well-run Democratic campaign stands virtually no chance for national success without major changes in how the news media operates.’
The proposition is actually untrue, for the reason that the Democrats actually won - despite the fiercely partisan media. It strikes me as the height of ignorance to overlook the fact the election was stolen by cyber fraud. We’ve been warned that this could happen and finally it did. It’s time journos came to terms with the reality that the Republicans are a bunch of criminals not cleverdicks.
Website:
http://www.freewebs.com/stolenelection/index.htm
Posted by James Paterson on Nov 11, 2004 at 2:30 AM dear redstate,
without doubting your patriotism and love of our great country i can’t resist to remind you that unfortunately you do sound brainwashed. we all have to stop this hateful namebashing. because it destructs us from real issues. i grew up in a horrible regime called USSR and i chose to come to live in USA because it was the last bastion of liberty. i love this country very much and i cherish every ounce of free air that i breath here. however, my dear friend, you do have to admit that this administration is not a real republican administration. maybe in the name only. lets leave the democrats aside for a second. when lies i.e. WMD, Saddams nukes, his links to Bin Laden start dominating the tongues of political leaders, when arrogance i.e. neo-conmen’s pre-emptive doctrine becomes an accepted norm, when national treasury is being looted in broad daylight, when CIA operatives names are being linked for political vendettas, when geo-poilitics vanishes from public discussion - you do have to wonder if we are being part of a science-fiction orwelian type of an experiment. and believe me - i do recognize this experiment when i see it. dick chaney, wolfovitz, perle, faith, rumsfeld - they so much look alike soviet leaders. power is beyond ideology. believe me the soviet leaders didn’t give a damn about communistic ideology. it was a way of holding on to a power. the corporate interest that controls nowdays the power in our country is beyong ideology. they don’t give a damn waht’s it called, democrat or republican, as long as they’re in power. what amazes me is that republican right wing is acting more like communists that democrats. they have consolidated all the media in their hands, corporations monopolized our economy and fear became the dominant control mechanism. doesn’t it sound USSR to you. we are not quite there yet, but very close. i’d like you to re-question your government and the president: where is osama bin laden? the islamist fascist who killed 3000 of our innocent civilians. its been more than 3 years. we should not attack fallujah, we should attack him. you don’t hear much of his name, do you. unless he surfaces with his videos. its time to clear some myths all around.
with all my respect to ronald reagan. soviet union didn’t collapse because of him. it collapsed from within. the lies ate the society from within. government was looting its citizens. and when citizens started looting the government back - it collapsed. there was a hidden revolution going on there, no one seems to know about it here.
US didn’t win the second world war. it was won by the red army. 8 out of 10 nazi soldiers were killed by the red army.
feeding myths to ourselves will blind us and eventually we will collapse.
we all should be worried reps and dems alike when the news is not free. when we are in a wrong war. when a few reactionary neo-conmen thugs managed to hijack the foreign policy of our government. when we are losing our confidence in our most sacred right - to vote.
Posted by ex-soviet dissident on Nov 11, 2004 at 3:33 AM This is for redstate,
Its a miracle Bush got relected because Nixon was re-elected under the very same circumstances with Vietnam AND LOOK WHAT HAPPENED TO HIM YOU FASCIST MORON!
Posted by John on Nov 11, 2004 at 3:34 AM Poster Ms. Gayle Osborne (see below) articulately hit the nail on the head. Look no further than Frank Luntz on the conservative side for proof of how methodical and assiduous the GOP is in hammering home their message in a way that resonates with “red state simpletons”, in a way that gets them to vote against their own economic interest. George Lakoff writes extensively about this need for the left to craft the message into a narrative. He’s right. The uneducated don’t want facts, they want a story. The right combines marketing with the Bible. We better come up with a counter-narrative, and quickly.
Posted by Andrew Clarke on Nov 11, 2004 at 4:49 AM No, George, Private Profit Does Not Justify All
By Holly Berkowitz
©2004 of, by, for public rights and public health
Logic doesn’t win elections when GW is in control of the cash-driven propaganda machine of his powerful military-industrial-corpoarte-media-CEO complex that Republican Dwight D. Eisenhower warned us against….the General that GW refuses to listen to.Democrats assume that others will understand logic, nature’s logic that any need to produce any prosperity of any definition for any.
But unfortunately, logic does not drive human history.
Instead, powerful and cash-driven emotional-button firestorms fuel the engines of history…..especially the ship that GW Bush is driving so carelessly right now downward.
And I cannot believe that Americans want us to crash and burn.
Unfortunately, GW Bush and Bush, Inc. have successfully sold US the unacceptable as acceptable….and we and the world will pay…in costs impossible to count in cash…..as he intentionally lied to cause war for profit with the help of Fox and others….
GW Bush and Bush, Inc. assume erroneously that private profit justifies all. But it does not.
Unfortunately, Bush, Inc. lure many into their hollow and artificial voodoonomics with glittering cashflow floods that crush and destroy the fragile watersheds, thoughts and life that any need to produce any prosperity or peace of any definition for any now or generations from now.
But as a used car salesman that cares only about the profit in his own secret, private bank account, GW Bush and Bush, Inc. of this CEO administration really don’t care about the lives, health or safety of the many trapped in the terrifying future he is throwing at us.
And I cannot believe that so many have lost their vision.
But he will pay. We will pay in costs impossible to count in cash.
Deuteronomy warns us to cause blessing enough to fill in the hungry voids of curse, of the negative.
But GW Bush and Bush, Inc. just don’t get it.
Perhaps Liberals can help him understand. After all, the word “liberal” comes from the same word root as “library” and “liberty,” as in
“liberty and justice for All…..”Has GW read the Declaration of Independence?
Has GW even read the US Constitution?
Someone should show it to him…..and to Fox.
Richard Nixon won his election with a so-called “landslide”....but resigned only two years later.
Why was that?
Posted by Holly Berkowitz on Nov 11, 2004 at 5:01 AM To redstate,Say Something intelligent,please? To everyone else,teach your children to THINK,teach yourselves to THINK.The reason that the “right” can control what we think through the media is that we are not able to think for ourselves.So what difference would it make if the “left” could deliver a more effective message?We would be still be controlled by the powers that be.“We the people”,the 3 most important words in the DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE,have become meaningless.Nothing will change,nothing will ever change until “WE THE PEOPLE” change ourselves,and become the free people that our fore fathers envisioned
Posted by mike on Nov 11, 2004 at 5:05 AM Guys,
Why get worked up about someone like Redstate. Obviously pointing out where he is wrong isn’t going to change his opinon. I have read this blog for a couple of weeks, and he makes comments each and everytime trying to fire you up…. and it works.
I don’t live in the US, i am not even a US citizen, but it makes me laugh that 51% of Americans that can be bothered to vote would vote for an incompetent man like Bush. Of course your media is right-wing, even those channels like CNN and NBC, we get them here in Australia and watching them is like watching a comedy show, with all these assumptions that somehow get turned into fact without any facts. You all love your country, otherwise you wouldn’t be writing on this blog. What is also obvious is that your media isn’t telling you the whole truth about everything, and when they do tell you something there are a lot of half lies embedded in the statement. We do get FOX News here in Australia, but nobody watches it because we all know that what they are saying is basically a replication of what your White House says…. the whole world knows that the US is full of shit and quite frankly we are scared that you are the so called “Leaders of the free world”. One can only hope that Europe, in it’s unified from, can offset the mess your government is making. And it’s not like Australia is all good as well, because my leader, John Howard, wants to suck Mr. Bush off so bad it’s not funny….
Posted by Scoota on Nov 11, 2004 at 6:58 AM I don’t see anything particularly untrue or off-base in what Redstate said in his original post. (He doesn’t help himself with the second).
I think the left is mistaken in thinking that conservative media is just some tool financed by wealthy right wing money moguls. This is fundamentally false and continuing to believe it undermines their ability to counter.
Rush started out two decades ago in a media world hostile to his views and through his own stubbornness and talent survived the bombardment coming from the likes of folks posting here. He built his current success on talent, creativity, and having the strength and appeal of a conservative message on his side.
Foxnews started much the same way, in the ratings basement, but has built an audience based on being willing to boldly present BOTH sides of the argument.
Their detractor’s anger is based mostly on the fact that when presented with both sides, people tend to judge ideas coming from the right to be pretty darn good, or at least not evil like they’ve been led to believe elsewhere.I would encourage folks on the left to present a clear message on where they stand on the issues. If you can, do it not in terms of “well I sure wouldn’t do this and that like the Republicans do”, but a bold clear course of action devoid of references to the opposition.
This is how they will win back the Whitehouse, not by employing people with conflicting and deceptive messages that can’t survive the light of day. Kerry’s war hero foundation was unsound and was easily and rightfully destroyed. Michael Moore’s lies were transparent and insulting, and wound up back-firing on all who fell for them. Dan Rather’s documents were exposed as fakes in a matter of hours by a guy in his pajamas.
Posted by Natalie on Nov 11, 2004 at 8:42 AM Let’s understand something.
Rush got we he is now, because his message is the message that best serves the purpose of the thinktank.
Same with FOX. If the REPUBLICANS under Reagan and Bush the First had not neutered the FCC and re-written law to allow multiple station ownership and multiple ownership of multiple types of media (radio,TV, newspapers)...people like Rupert Murdoch would NEVER have been able to build the type of all-encompassing..and controlling…beast that now exists.
The dangers of that consolidation are what this article is talking about.
“The medium is the message” - McLuhan
Posted by Liberal but Proud on Nov 11, 2004 at 12:50 PM This country needs another partisan news source like it needs another attack on New York City.
No sacred cows - that should be the goal of any self-respecting news organization (as far as I can tell the only publication that comes close to this mission is The Onion). It’s an American ethic that died in the consolidation of media in the eighties. By putting ratings and uber-profits before impartiality, news sources automatically made themselves beholden to the twin sacred cows of our time.
Most people don’t have the time to read multiple news sources, though it’s essential that we do so in this post-journalism world. So they tend to rely on a source they trust, that is, that matches their world-view. Liberals are already just as guilty of this as conservatives. So you want another, even more distilled partisan news channel? Not me.
What America needs isn’t a band of limousine liberals to build media by and for Democrats (though that’s probably inevitable). This country badly needs a journalistic roots movement that embraces the throw-back notion of a truly free press, and an Edward R Murrow devotion to facts.
Posted by Barth on Nov 11, 2004 at 2:01 PM Its amazing to see how much hate flies between the left and the right. One party believes that they hold all the values that count, while the other party believs they have all the right values. When do we get to rent North - South part II on dvd? Please make sure that you really give it to each other, so that we do not have to be bothered by you for a long time.
We are on a highway to hell and we do not want it any other way.
Posts that I enjoyed are from the Russian and the Aussie. Hey Scoota get your goverment to sign the kyoto agreemant, so that we have clear vision on that highway!
And Mr Russia how does the vodka taste in America? Any good?
Posted by Watson on Nov 11, 2004 at 4:56 PM Hello, it is sad how the “left” and the “right” call each other those labels; they both sound derogatory…. I would consider myself an anarchist. Simply, that means that I do not feel that I need a government to govern me, I want to govern myself, and I do. Of course anarchist brings to mind all your stereotypical black mask wearing bombing violent types or whatever. That is a crock. I only want to be in charge of myself, and be around others who are in charge of themsleves. Perhaps we could all go have a pint together.
Posted by Doctress Julia on Nov 11, 2004 at 5:59 PM Hey Red
I’m with uI’st time us patreuts round up all thim tax and spind liberals before thay run the defisit any hier. we shuld ship em off to france or one uv thim other gay cuntrees. We’ll be much more better whin thay qit bad mouthin our presidint. I met a long hared hippie down at the unemploymint office that started singing this hipie song that wint something like “we don’t need no thought control”, I told him to shut his welfare eatin pie hole and startid singn “I’m proud to be an American, whir at least i no i don’t have to think”
dam satin worshipn commie hippie.
Posted by Billy Bob on Nov 11, 2004 at 7:43 PM Oh puh-LEASE!!! Give me a FUCKING break!!
Oh boo-hoo… a lame-ass candidate like Kerry loses to Dubya, let’s blame it on the media!! Yeah.. THAT’S it, they must be to blame!!
Hogwash. The fact of the matter is that the Democrats LOST to a drunken, former coke-head that likely can’t even spell most of the languages Teresa-Heinz Kerry can speak. The fact that Kerry couldn’t beat such an obvious moron like Dubya speaks volumes not about Dubya’s popularity, but to how weak a candidate Kerry really was.
The same applies to the slimy Democratic party. Instead of showing a spine and some chutzpah, these idiots have done their best to morph into a wishy-washy version of the Republicans. Bravo, as Dubya might say, “mission accomplished.”
Can anyone really say with any kind of certainty what the Republican Lite party stands for? The best candidate they had was Kucinich - which isn’t saying much - and they served up a bunch of loonies in the primaries and expected to be taken seriously.
But let’s blame the media. A media which, while I don’t believe is “biased” in any specific direction, certainl has been more than kind to the Republican Lite party over the years, no? Instead of looking to the media, these fools should look in the mirror instead.
Posted by g-love on Nov 11, 2004 at 8:25 PM “Democrats assume that others will understand logic, nature’s logic that any need to produce any prosperity of any definition for any. “
- Holly BerkowitzWith all due respect, Ms Berkowitz. WTF does this mean?
Posted by clark Nitrate on Nov 11, 2004 at 8:36 PM Redstate is a troll who writes, if we can call it that, under several aliases. But the net cognitive
content is zero. He is a hater, like 99% of the
Right and has no solutions to our many Bush-created and/or aggravated problems.
Kerry ran an extremely uninspiring campaign.
Only Lieberman would have been worse though that
nut Marty Peretz over at The New Republican
thinks he could have won !
Comedy aside, Air America needs to be supported.
They just came on the air here in San Francisco
(960am) and they are fantastic, particularly
Jeanine Gariofalo and Mike Malloy. We need more
media presence and they are a good start.
They have a newness and energy that’s missing
at the tired Pacifica Network (KPFA locally)
and is long gone from centrist NPR.
I’d like to thank ex-Soviet dissident for his
factual rebuttal to the redstaters of this land.
Posted by Michael Hardesty on Nov 11, 2004 at 9:48 PM If you you want true hate look no further than that contemptous piece of furry whale excrement known as Michael Moore. The hypocrisy of you liberals excuse me(ahem) progressives is really funny. For real intelligent discourse worthy of the left we have Al Franken who wins this years award for best rodent with glasses impersonation.Then we move on to that bastion of truth and integrity Jeanine Garafalo who no doubt will never end the constant cycle of pms and hormonal imbalance. What stupidity we spout from mouths so full of crap you can’t even see it. I just hope you keep your talentless and tasteless cheerleaders going full tilt for the next election so you can lose even worse than you did this time.
Posted by redstate on Nov 11, 2004 at 10:29 PM In contrast to the right’s media juggernaut, the left relies largely on a scattered network of cash-strapped Web sites, a few struggling magazines and a couple of hand-to-mouth satellite TV networks. And CBS, ABC, NBC, MSNBC, CNN, NY Times, LA Times, and on, and on.
The fact is the liberal media is incredibly successful, except its fragmented so the lone voice of Fox stands out from the crowd much more than it should otherwise.
John Kerry’s well-fought campaign—and the youthful energy that surrounded it—may have been an encouraging sign, but the hard truth is: It was too little, too late This is just a pile of crap. Kerry took August and part of September off without speaking to any journalists. That is not a well-fought campaign, that’s one of the worst campaign moves in history. He was pounded during that time and he couldn’t even do a softball interview with Larry King to get his side out?
Posted by rjschwarz on Nov 11, 2004 at 11:29 PM I don’t know who redstate really is. Hell, I don’t think redstate knows who he is. He’s obviously accustomed to accusations of ignorance, so calling him a moron, while it may provide some temporary sense of satisfaction, rolls right off his back like shit on a sow stuck in the mud. Questioning the intelligence of the less intelligent is great sport among the (especially liberal) intelligentsia, but it’s also counter-productive and pretty much the principal source of the liberal-conservative cultural divide, along with class, gender, race, sexuality, religion and all that other good shit that gets us all pissed off and reaching for the rifle.
Way back there during the 60’s, when the war in Vietnam was getting ready to entertain us with its graphic presentations of patriotic gore, most of us marched off to college, and the rest of us marched off to war. The Veterans returned to confront the Graduates along the picket lines of a nation that was even more socially fractured than the one they had just destroyed and abandoned. Women demonstrating for the right to choose, minorities demonstrating for the right to work, gays demonstrating for the right to exist, and everyone demonstrating against the war. This counter-cultural carnival was orchestrated by a liberal leadership and celebrated by a liberal media. The Grads, now firmly established among the concrete towers of the information industry, felt irresistibly inclined to lecture the Vets on the political etiquette appropriate to the model citizen of a progressively modern democracy.
Is it any wonder that the backlash returned to bite us in the butt?
Posted by Milo Miderbender on Nov 11, 2004 at 11:53 PM Let me start by saying that I voted for Nader. Though I feel that Kerry was weak, something’s is really wrong when GW is re-elected. I’m not going to say that the left is any where near infallible - but I will say that the majority of informed voters are against Bush. Don’t get me wrong, there are a good number of extremely well informed conservatives - to whom, I give props. It seems like even they were against Bush (e.g.the mag, “American Conservative” support for Kerry). However, there were some well informed voters that supported Bush, but I just don’t see how they add up.
To embrace Bush and his policies - I just don’t get it. You would either have to be; a) an extreme social Darwinist with contempt for anyone but yourself, b) counting on political favors from Bush or, c) plain fucking stupid.
I will lump categories A and B together under the following assumption: in order to embrace social Darwinism, you would have to be at the top of the hierarchy - otherwise social Darwinism works against your favor. Also, in order to receive political favors from Bush, you have to already be at the top of the hierarchy. Yes, there are individuals and corporations that profit from the Bush administration - but I can assure you that they don’t make up 59 Million votes. I would be surprised if they made up a million votes. [Note: if someone wants to convince me how the upper middle class (and anyone below) financially benefits from the Bush administration - I would love to hear it. After all, I’m clearly influenced by the “liberally biased media.”]
Then you have category C. Oh category C, how I loathe you. Unless you are super rich or a powerful corporation - you do not benefit from the Bush administration. I’m not going to say that I’m right in supporting Gay marriage or abortion. I’m not going to say that I support either… I really don’t fucking care - as long as it doesn’t effect me, let people do what they need/want to do. When it starts noticeably making my life worse, then I’ll join the pro-life, anti-gay cause. Until then, I don’t care.
I will say that I AM RIGHT (fuck the liberal “everyone has a different opinion” PC bullshit) when it comes to voting based on economic/job stats, environmental stats, or the unfair use of military aggression rather than voting based on prejudice and fear (or in one word, ignorance). There are solid statistics showing how Bush is bad for job security, our economy, our environment, and given his failed adventure in Iraq, our health. The Bush administration has made ALL OF OUR lives noticeably worse (except for the super rich/powerful/corporate types all 1% of you). Where did all the fucking jobs go? What happened to our federal surplus? What happened to the value of US dollar? What happened to over a thousand of our soldiers in the last couple years? What happened to any semblance of global respect for the US?
Bush fucking happened. Bush is fucking happening. Though, I do suspect some forms of foul play in the election - it was certainly not enough to win it alone. I am sure that 10s of millions of people did vote for GW. And now I finally tie this rant to the article. Why are these people so ignorant? Is it the media’s fault? Obviously, they are partly to blame. However, people wouldn’t buy this bullshit if they weren’t braindead to start with. That brings us to educational system… [cue dramatic duh duh duhhhh]. Why is the educational system so bad? That brings us to people in power. Why are the people in power so bad at providing us with a decent education? That brings us back to the braindead masses.
Honestly, I wonder why I get up in the morning.
Posted by Porktamer on Nov 12, 2004 at 12:05 AM The term “independent media” is a lie. Independent of what? A bias. If you have an opinion then you have a bias. We all have opions and so do journalists. Those unconscious biases seep into their reporting. There is no such thing as “independent media”. In These Times advances a left leaning agenda the same way that the National Review advances a right leaning agenda.
In These Times is NOT independent media, unless you believe that the word independent is a synonym for liberal, left, socialist etc.More power to you for organizing and fighting for what you believe in, but don’t put forth the idea that somehow the liberal viewpoint does not have a media voice or that the voice it has is less powerful than the conservative counterpart.
Be honest with yourself. Believing in this myth only handicaps your cause.
Posted by Greenwhich on Nov 12, 2004 at 12:28 AM Milo, your agnosticism regarding an out and out
profane moron like “redstate” or whatever alias he’s using next is disgusting ! Get a life, turkey !
If you read redstate’s posting right below my earlier one you can honestly come to no other conclusion than that he’s an utter moron.
Nor did centrist, pro-war Kerry lose because he
allegedly didn’t pander to the redstates of the
country !
God but you are a spineless, gutless, braindead
imbecile !!!
Posted by Michael Hardesty on Nov 12, 2004 at 1:05 AM Perhaps the term “independent” could be understood not to mean “free of any agenda”, which no mass media can claim, but free of the dictates of a corporate board and the shareholders they’re hired to serve, which can obviously warp any news/opinion publication’s editorial policy. Murdoch’s NewsCorp comes to mind, among others (e.g. Who funds al-Jazeera?). It truly would be ludicrous for ITT or any paper to claim freedom from bias, but for all their flaws they can at least be upfront about their agenda. The problem is, so few Americans relate to that agenda at this point. I’ve read ITT off and on for almost 20 years, and (sorry ITT gang) they’ve been “fringe” all along. I felt as though kicked in the stomach after Nov. 2, but I can’t say I was surprised, after all, there’s a war on, eh? You know how that all works. But remember, attitudes about abolishing slavery, equalizing rights based on gender, in fact the whole notion of rights as a protection against absolute authority, were all “fringe” at one time. And the millions who voted NOT to entrench Bush and the Republican hardly constitute a fringe, more like a huge minority. I can only hope we can all get over the post-election despair quickly and get to work blunting Bush’s agenda!
One thing we can do is elevate the tone of discourse, stick to verifiable data and thoughtful analyses as the basis of our opinionating, avoid ad hominem attacks, etc. What’s this penchant for insult in these comment sections? Seems to me like it benefits the adversaries. Actually, it imitates them, as the shit-talk of those who access these forums for the purpose of attack demonstrate. Why become what we hate?
Posted by Kuya on Nov 12, 2004 at 2:36 AM redstate:
People like you make me fervently wish that Osama and Company drop a bomb right smack in the middle of Cracker Nation.
It would improve the aggregate IQ of the United States one hundredfold.
I love how you use a term like “hard on.” You conservatives love obsessing over what you are incapable of doing.
I guess all those guns are substitutes for your private parts.
Posted by Terry C on Nov 12, 2004 at 2:40 AM “a few old hags from my favorite hate group the National Orginization for bitchy Women..”
Oh, I suppose we’re “bitches” because we would NOT touch the likes of you with a ten foot pole.
Go Cheney yourself, redstate.
You’re a moron! Go wank to a photo of (M)ann Coulter.
Posted by Terry C on Nov 12, 2004 at 2:43 AM well Terry I guess you put me in my place huh? No I do not dislike the Nazi Orginazation for women or you for that matter because of the length of the pole you wish you had. Penis envy must be tough for a girl like you. No I dislike NOW because it fits all the criteria for a bona fide hate group. It is tough for women when feminism is defined by a group of really hateful women instead of women who are a little nicer.
Posted by redstate on Nov 12, 2004 at 3:10 AM Redstate…once - just once - introduce some actual facts with the crap that is spewing out of your idiotic little mouth…
I’ve been arguing with morons like you for the last four years…all you can muster up are hate based bile laden statements instead of trying to fire up that little pea brain you have and look at some actual facts about the destructive, reckless, and irresponsible nature of this administration…
If you are too ignorant to see this administration for what they are then you actually do deserve the government you asked for – unfortunately that includes bestowing thier actions upon half of this nation that believes they are exacting considerable harm to this nation’s future – both short term and long term…
I know that you’re having a problem wrapping your head around this for one simple reason…
You’re a fucking moron.
Posted by RJMC on Nov 12, 2004 at 5:31 AM I think everyone is far too concerned with the right’s stronghold on the media. Is it bad for the country? Yes. However, there are still plenty of ways to spread the progressive message.
The primary problem is that the Democrats abandoned liberals a long time ago. If the Democrats had the guts to nominate Kucinich or even Sharpton, the media would not be as bad as it currently is.
Unfortunately, the only voices that are heard are the top Democrat voice and the top Republican voice. Thus, the debate for the past year has been between a staunchly conservative, right-wing madman and a weak-minded, right-of-center Democrat.
No matter who the Democrats chose, they knew that the Republicans would label him as a liberal. So why didn’t they choose true liberal? The only way to counterbalance the extreme right-wing candidate would be to nominate an exteme left-wing candidate.
Kerry couldn’t criticize Bush well enough because they have so much in common. The Republicans couldn’t really criticize Kerry either, so they made up some lies. Kucinich or Sharpton could have criticized Bush on every issue because they differ so much from Bush.
In sum, we have to make sure the Democrats know that the people want liberals. We need liberals. Without a true liberal to counterbalance Bush, the large new electorate may actually believe that Kerry is liberal and that the true liberals are too far out of the mainstream to listen to.
Posted by none on Nov 12, 2004 at 6:40 AM If the Democrats expect to win anything in the future, they need to stop chasing these sorry “security moms” (?) and NASCAR dads and pay some attention to their base.
Drop Shrum, Carville, and the rest of those wannabe-Republican DLCers, and get some real, genuine progressives in the picture. The Democrats have spent years trying to distance themselves from their base, and this base has still supported them even though the slight is glaringly obvious.
We ALL know we outnumber them, and that’s why they won’t take the risk of having free and fair elections, that’s why the left doesn’t sit around trying to figure out how to disenfranchise those redstaters. Energize the base!
Demolish the DLC (the Kerrys, Edwards, Liebermans, Bayhs, Kennedys, Fords, Clintons, etc.) and bring in the progressive caucus folk!
We’ll really give the residents of Jesustan something to fret over!
Posted by pheromone 7.1 on Nov 12, 2004 at 10:30 AM Redstate, what’s with all this anger against women?
Your mother not allow your father to buy you that pony you wanted? Not allowed to play Little League? Your sister win the National Spelling Bee? Well, I can understand why you’d be upset over that one.
In any case, I do suggest you engage your brain before you put your mouth in gear.
Your scarin’ the livestock.
Posted by Liberal but Proud on Nov 12, 2004 at 12:53 PM it’s funny RMJC I have been trying to talk to morons like YOU and the rest of this ITT bunch. What gives you the right to call me a moron? Because I don’t believe in your silly little lberal-socialist ideas? Hypocrisy is the trademark of a true liberal or progressive or whatever you folks are calling yourselves these days.
Dear lib but proud…no I don’t hate ALL women just self righteous delusional men hating bitches such as yourself. Ponies?? Baseball? spelling bees? Where do you get this stuff MS magazine or something. I am happily married and and had the best (gasp- stay at home mom) in the world. No I believe that you have some deep issues that maybe a few hours on the shrinks’s couch could help.
Posted by redstate on Nov 12, 2004 at 1:38 PM No redstate - what I call myself is informed…I don’t place a label on myself…
Back to the crux of this article - how can you not see that the label you so like to put on this’liberal media’ is a crock of shit…all you need do is look at who owns all the media outlets and thanks to FCC chairman Michael Powell - remember whose brother that is? - one company can now own up to 45% of the national market up from 35%...that was a republican party-line vote that installed that…and it’s not the democrats that own those massive media conglomorates…liberal media my ass…
See - there’s some facts for you…can you refute with some actual intellegent FACTS…?
Also - in your childish attack of Al Franken you fail to mention exactly what he has said that is untrue…please cite a specific example - I beg you…the difference is that with Rush verifiable lies come out of his mouth on just about a daily basis…just off the top of my head rush talked about how 70 some percent of mimnimum wage workers were teenagers…well not according the the Labor Department who publishes statistics that show the majority are actually adults…that please refute with some of those facts thingys…
Posted by RJMC on Nov 12, 2004 at 2:10 PM And now the latest from the world of “free market” television.
Certain networks, including that bastion of even-handedness the Sinclair Group, are planning on boycotting the airing of Saving Private Ryan, due to the excessive profanity and violence.
Yes, we need to continue to see war the Republican way. No caskets, no casualties (for our side), no blood, no mistakes.
“Honey, bring me a beer and then get yourself into the bedroom. I’ll be in right after Amos and Andy is over, so that you can fulfill your wifely responsibilities”.
Posted by Liberal and Proud on Nov 12, 2004 at 2:19 PM Liberal and Proud. It was all American media that refused to show the people jumping from the World Trade Center and refused to show footage of the attacks after a week or so. Not right, not left, all media. The world saw the jumpers and the US did not for fear it would make us even madder.
I agree, we should see the blood of everyone, or we should see nobody’s blood. The hypocracy of showing the dead Iraqi’s while failing to show the Americans jumping from the towers is horrible. CNN and others should be ashamed for trying to sway public opinion that way.
Second, the refusal to show flag drapped caskets dates back to the Clinton Administration.
Posted by rjschwarz on Nov 12, 2004 at 3:52 PM There are intelligent secular righwing viewpoints
but the redstates’ ilk is not one of them.
On media, it’s difficult because we all have a
viewpoint, which is normal and fine. But if you
spout something contrary to the party line at
one of the alternative outlets you’ll be out
on your behind. I think the real test is what
is true and who most consistently reports the
same. Not an easy task but a necessary one.
The trouble with arguing with an idiot is that
people might not be able to tell the difference.
Posted by Michael Hardesty on Nov 12, 2004 at 4:32 PM Robert Parry:
As long as you assume that “American democracy” is a conservative/liberal, Republican/Democrat, right/left political construct, they will continue to play footsie with each other as long as Americans think that’s the only game in town. The rest of the world is wondering; if America is a real democracy, why isn’t there an alternative to Bush/Kerry? Well, there is, but the Democrats are as guilty of suppressing Libritarian, LaRouch, Nader or any other different ideas as the Republicans are of brainwashing white Americans with this conservative silliness. All Democrats are really doing is running interference for the Republicans.
So, is America actually a democratic republic? Was it ever a democratic republic? Why has American democracy been “diminished”? Forget all the propaganda from the brainwashing media and “educational” system. If it don’t look like, walk like or talk like a democracy then it aint one. The “American experiment” failed because everything that was tested, compared and contrasted were all placebos.
Posted by theloneous on Nov 12, 2004 at 4:54 PM Sounds like Mr. Redstate needs some serious psychotherapy to work through an enormous amount of anger. I always wonder where all that anger and hate comes from that gets spewed at Liberals. I think it has more to do with Mr. Redstate than it has to do with us. Take a look inside, Mr Redstate, I bet that anger started well before you had trouble in your gradeschool spelling classes.
Posted by Mary McDowell on Nov 12, 2004 at 5:26 PM I may be a Democrat and a Liberal…there I said it…but I disagreed with not showing caskets from the very beginning.
And we DO need to see ALL blood. On all sides.
The “masses”, particularly in this country, have become too disassociated from the horrors of war.
Look at where the elimination of TRUE news divisions has brought us, and I’m not even talking about the Iraq War in this context.
Where are the images of the real HORRORS in the Sudan? Does the majority really know what’s going on on the Ivory Coast?
This country and it’s media have becoming so introspective, so disassociated from the realities of life in the rest of the world.
I believe that we in the US are inherently a good people. But we have become so brainwashed by our media, whether intentionally or unintentionally, that we are now encapsulated in our little cocoons of sitcoms, commercials, materialism and we have become so abhorrent of ANYTHING that imposes on this safe little womb we’ve built, that we call and complain when the networks pre-empt our little lives with inconveniences like the State of the Union Address.
The fairness doctrine did more than just guarantee equal exposure to opposing views, it forced us to actual learn and to pay attention.
Posted by Liberal and Proud on Nov 12, 2004 at 5:35 PM Dear Ex-USSR Citizen:
Please continue re-telling your personal story every chance you can. The citizens of the USA are living under the tyranny of Christian fascists operating as the U.S. Government. To protest the actions of this government is to be persecuted and jailed. Torture is OK. Hating others for their unique characteristics is supported. Oh, and if you are not a “Christian”, beware the fires of heresy. Sorry you jumped from one form of tyranny in the USSR to here in the USA. Let us all who want to live free organize together to fight against it.
Posted by Cynthia Gay Hollin on Nov 12, 2004 at 6:05 PM I wonder how difficult it would be to obtain progressive talk radio time in each of our communities. Maybe that’s a grassroots way of responding to this challenge.
Posted by Aamir Zakaria on Nov 12, 2004 at 6:39 PM I agree that the media has been taken over, but what can we do? Personally I don’t have as much money as George Soros and people don’t want to listen to the facts on a one to one basis. They trust Fox becuase it’s “Fair and Balanced”. Oh yeah and and in this reality monkeys can fly outa my butt.
Posted by Leebo on Nov 12, 2004 at 6:57 PM Here’s a link to show you how you can set up your own microbroadcasting station for under $2000.
http://www.prometheusradio.org/stealing_back_airwaves.shtml
Let’s get going, people!
Enough whining…start ACTING!
Posted by Aamir Zakaria on Nov 12, 2004 at 7:34 PM Spend that money by investing in XFM. Work to have fair and balanced management placed into those stations.
People like George Soros should be lobbied to put his money into programs and ownership of those airwaves, so that we can have a voice for open minded fair Americans.
Fight the Right with their own playbook.
Posted by Liberal but Proud on Nov 12, 2004 at 8:11 PM well RMJC you are informed only by the likes of things you choose to believe. Keep calling me a moron - that just proves what I always say about you lefties. Anybody that believes in God and the truth is a moron for not (ahem) being educated. you all pick on my spelling , grammar etc that’s OK I am right and you are wrong.
As for Al franken he’s just a mojor asshole a real mouthy mean little turd. i suspect anything coming out of his mouth is bullshit. While I do listen and read many opinoions on the leftI do not waste any time on that jerk off. If he’s so good how come he sucked so bad in SNL and now Air America is taking a nosedive??
You libs at it again and it’s funny. Condecending little twits that you all are you expect anybody who does not fall for your little socialist - progressive ideas is an ignorant uneducated dumbfuck.
Like I have said I don’t believe the liberal media. You bitch about the right having control because of Rush and Fox and that is sooo laughable. You just can’t stand that the left’s monopoly on informnation is over. Why right here in dipstick county USA the computer revolution is on. Even “iggorant” rednecks like me can use a computer now. What a bunch of snotty self centered little pricks you all are…
Posted by redstate on Nov 12, 2004 at 8:22 PM redstate sorry i was involved with “Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer” - Adolf Hitler/redstate simalarities you certainly used an awful lot of space to proffess to us and the world your extreme lack of intellect. also germany crique 1930 = usa today espacialy perpetuated by stooges as yourself and yes this says it all…
“dear anti-redstate I did not know that YOU were in charge of the earth or this country. YOU are talking like the nazi. you can’t discuss facts you only think with that little brain of yours. Me thinks it might be you that wants to do a little walking you little twit. what’s the matter run outta KY so things alittle rough “down there”?
But just keep talking the talk cause i know you can’t do the walk.”i have been taught 57 different ways to end a human life but i think back only 5 to save one starting with education walkin the walk ...wanna try my shoes on panty waist?
Posted by anti-redstate on Nov 12, 2004 at 10:20 PM Oh anti redstate you are scaring me..I bet you were a Green Bidet or something at least in your delusional little mind . I too was taught by the best how to end life from casual to extreme prejudice and how to save life too. So quit talking badass to a badass and maybe we can talk sense..if’n you want it the other that’s fine but at my age I’d rather talk…it’s up to you.
I get baited and bashed in here and I deserve it..but I like it . Its funny to me to argue with the libs . But I ain’t no Nazi ..my reletives all fought with the resistance and special forces to end the nazi’s so don’t push it..
Posted by redstate on Nov 12, 2004 at 11:42 PM Redstate, you are a Nazi-Fascist, I don’t care
if all your relatives worked for Mother Teresa, it’s the same ideology-philosophy that you spout.
Your mama should have aborted you, we’d all be
better off.
Posted by Michael Hardesty on Nov 13, 2004 at 12:49 AM Redstate - just as I suspected…not a single fact…way to back yourself up there…
You see - it is a moron that can look at actual facts and truths like ones published by the Labor Department but refuse to believe it because of a liberal bias ?!?!?!?!?...and you’re still okay with the proven lies thast come out of Rush or Ann or Bill or Sean or any of those other clowns…
You’ve proven my point - you’re still a fucking moron…
C’mon - one more time - I dare you - send me some facts…prove something Al Franken has said to be a lie…do something you dimwit…
Posted by RJMC on Nov 13, 2004 at 1:14 AM Hardesky you are a little peckerhead. I ain’t gonna get into it with you. You are obviously not smart enough to even waste time with you little asshole.
RJMC.allright dipstick I’ll tell you outright that I have no specific point about Franken lying. I just think he is a little asshole. i have heard some of his views on taxes and the right in general and I thinky he is a pompous self righteous arrogant rude little turd of a man. Kinda just like you asshole.
Posted by redstate on Nov 13, 2004 at 2:27 AM Redstate,
I have read numerous of your missives in which, amongst many expletives and namecalling, you accuse the"liberals” of still not getting the picture and being up in their ivory towers far removed from the real world. You seem to pride yourself on being in the picture and despite the fact that uou label all people who don’t share your opinion as patronizing moralisers, you dish out quite a bit of it yourself. Yet, however hard I tried, I have failed to see a single hard fact in all of your “comments”. Nothing but rethoric and spiteful soundbites- not a single fact-baffling… How about shaking up some neurons and giving some facts as to why you support Daddy’s boy (whose political agenda in Europe is considered as dangerous far-right rethoric on a par with Jean-Marie Le Pen’s National Front in France) instead of rattling off your emotionally charged rantings and ravings. Just to stir you on a little and get you on the “facts” track here are some facts for you to consider.
Under Daddy’s boy’s presidency
-the economy has lost 1.9 million private sector jobs (the worst job record of any President since Herbert Hoover)
-America is 7 million jobs short of the prediction Daddy’s boy made in Feb.2002
-healthcare costs are up nearly 50%
-petrol prises(gasoline) is up more than 40%
-college tuition is up 35%
-long-term unemployment is up 165%
-wages now represent the lowest share of national income on record while profits are soaring
-40% of the tax breaks have gone to the richest 1% with less than 17% going to 80% with adjusted gross income of less than $75,000
-a $236 billion surplus turned into a massive $422 billion deficit
-taxaudits for the workingpoor have been increased while Enron-like corporate scandals are mushrooming as enforcement of corporate tax law has been reduced to a strict minimum
-the minimum wage has fallen to an inflation adjusted 50 year low
-more than 5 million people have lost their healthinsurance bringing the total tally around the 50 million mark
while on the environmental front…
-clean-air standards for aging power plants have been gutted, resulting in at least 20,000 premature deaths each year
-protections of more than 200 million acres of public lands have been eliminated
-promises to curb and place limits on carbon-dioxide emissions have been broken and the Kyoto-agreement flatly refused despite the fact that a clear link between human industrial activity and global warming have been established beyond any scientific doubt.Even though the American population makes up 5 % of the world’s population 20% of the world’s total output of carbon dioxide emissions come spewing out of the good U.S of A.
-and yet massive tax loopholes for SUV’s were introduced by Daddy’boy
-he also thought it would be a great idea to cut the Environmental Agency budget by a whopping $600 million (who needs that agency anyway when you’ve got all your old corporate buddies pulling the ropes…)
-and to sweep lots of dirty little secrets under the carpet a whopping $6.5 billion were spent in 2003 on creating 14 million classified documents. In fact it spent $120 classifying documents for every dollar it spent declassifying documents.
-and last but not least a humongeous amount of money has and is still being spent an that bloody quagmire called Iraq where NO WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION HAVE BEEN FOUND and whose former dictator also has been proven to have had NO LINKS WHATSOEVER WITH BIN LADEN…
Somewhere between $150 and $200 billion that could have been spent on
-providing clean,safe water to the 3rd world (around $100 billion over a 10 year period)
3000 children die every day on this planet because they don’t have access to safe water-as many people as on that tragic September day…
-elliminating illiteracy and thereby greatly diminishing the breeding grounds for blind fanatical fundamentalism
(around $50 billion over a 10 year period)
-removing landmines
(around $40 billion over the same period)
I somehow imagine Jesus-that “long haired unshaven bearded bleeding heart commie individual”- would have preferred this agenda rather than intervening in what consenting adults get up to in their bedroom or having prayers at high schools…
So there you have it Mr Redstate. I hope your compassionate conservative values will render your reply a coherent and sensible one full of REAL FACTS.
Posted by a concerned and baffled European on Nov 13, 2004 at 10:47 PM I cannot and will not address each one of you points but I will elaborate on some of the reasons I hate liberals and maybe you can respond.
why do you bitch about Cheney/ Halliburton and let socialist Soros slide for trying to buy Kerry the presidency?
Why do let Dan Rather-Bias slide for lying about Bush?
Why do you hate guns and say they are apublic health menace and the become cheerleader for the AIDS speading Gays?
On your points about jobs I say Clinton faked his job numbers and even if he did not the numbers were artificially high because of the computer-dot com explosion. In the last year of Clinton’s reign the numbers were dropping fast and you blame Bush?
so what about the tax breaks . people work hard they make money why should the government steal it for some socialist perverted illusion of income re-distibution?
i could go on and on and will in future posts but I will end this by saying this who the hell wants to become like Europe anyway. You certainly don’t live in any kind of utopia I’d want to live in. and if you don’t stop trying to meddle in our election affairs maybe we should send in a few SEAL teams to set you straight.
Posted by redstate on Nov 13, 2004 at 11:33 PM I won’t pretend to speak for redstate, although he seems to enjoy baiting the liberals almost as much as the liberals like to bait the yahoos from our conservative sister states. In fact, Bush was re-elected for precisely that reason. As stated, questioning the intelligence of the less educated is great sport among the liberal intelligentsia, domestic and foreign. We can’t seem to resist the urge, even if it means losing an election which otherwise ought to have been ours.
So let’s run down your list of “obvious” objections to a second Bush administration, obvious in that they rely upon economic explanations for political consequences, and ignore the cultural variables. Any self-respecting Marxist will solemnly inform you that the economic base determines the cultural superstructure. And they would be right, as far as it goes. But when the economic base is contracting rather than expanding, then the cultural superstructure likewise contracts to a previous post-modern manifestation. The trick is to transform an exponential distribution into a normal distribution.
Most of your objections center around the loss of jobs during the Bush administration, including fringe benefits such as health and retirement insurance, the rising costs of living (gas, food, housing, heating, education, etc.), tax breaks (socialism) for the rich and free enterprise for the rest of us, wage reductions, loss of welfare benefits (food, housing, education: see socialism for the rich) and, of course, our regard for enviromental degradation, which, according to our rural brethren, inhibits their opportunities for employment and the maintenance of their rural culture, despite the obvious consequences of said degradation. The alternative, in many cases, is migration to the cities, where they might be derided for their quaint country customs.
First of all, many of the factories migrating from the post-industrial states are finding their way into the neo-industrial states, where the costs of production and consumption are comparatively lower. Score one for the red states. Lower wages for factory employment in the post-industrial states often translate to higher wages for the people employed in those same industries which are re-located to the neo-industrial states. Absent or fewer fringe benefits are resented by the people who lose them, not by the people who obtain employment which otherwise itself would be absent. Urban welfare benefits are offset by compensating rural welfare benefits (mining and grazing rights, timber quotas, military installations, farming subsidies, etc.).
So, on balance, the red states stand to gain much more than they lose from the Bush administration, while the blue states are losing their population as well as their industry to the red states.
It’s not much of a secret that petroleum is a finite, non-renewable resource, or that declines in the production of petroleum are imminent. Allocation of the remaining resources, as they become progressively more scarce, will be concentrated among industry, agriculture and the military. The fallout from that social disruption is better left to the analysis of minds more empirical than my own. If I believed in God, I’d be praying, too.
Posted by Milo Minderbender on Nov 14, 2004 at 1:42 AM Wow Mr Catch-22 man you sure do use some big words and this good ol country boy is having a hard tome wrapping hi brain around em all.
I do however enjoy your sense of humor . Just remember you cannot spell oxymoron without m-o-r-o-n.
things like liberal intelligensia and self respecting marxist. You all up there in the ruling liberal class that you have got yourselves a good old peasant revolt on your hands. Your powerbase has not only been compromised it’s been destroyed. Information and communication are the cornerstones of a good battle plan and you no longer have a monopoly with which to control your subservviant masses. I really wonder if you even believe the things you say or is it group madness from being all couped up in them thair big citiesand not getting any fresh air. Hope ya get to feelin better.
Posted by redstate on Nov 14, 2004 at 2:13 AM The peasant revolt occurred a hundred and fifty years ago, when John Brown marched to Virginia to liberate the Federal arsenal at Harper’s Ferry. He didn’t live to see it, but he also liberated the labor camps in the South. You good ole boys used to call them plantations, and now you call them prisons. You lost that first revolt and, if necessary, you’ll lose this one too.
The group madness you talk about is called the Stockholm Syndrome. The hostages eventually return to their senses but in the interim (big word, hah, good…) they regard the hijackers as saviors.
Posted by Nately's Whore on Nov 14, 2004 at 1:07 PM To be honest I wasn’t expecting much from redstate. Blaming Clinton for Bush’s mismanagement…classic stuff. Comparing Soros’ fiancial support with Halliburton’s monoploly on Iraq’s financial windfall…stretching it a little. Obviously a small detail like the Iraqi bloody mess- pffh! just bounces off the man. All irrelevant details. Who cares about 100,000 dead towelheads and (oops) over a 1000 of your boys killed as well. ‘peripheral’ damage I suppose.Oh yes, the tax breaks…Dubya is all for the working man bringing home the bacon- the media sure did a good job pulling the wool over close to 60 million Americans’ eyes on that one- are you serious? I suppose if it’s bacon by the truckloads than he’ll be your man.He’s looking out for his base- the have mores. Tax breaks are ok by me as long as there is some degree of fairness and a balanced budget to pay for healthcare, hospitals, education, social security (the sort of things that make a country civilized), the country’s infrastructure and the protection of the environment. What will your offspring a couple of generations down the road think when they inherit a destroyed planet? If you believe in a god then surely you must consider this planet to be his creation and therefore worthy of respect.
As to the meddling in your election affairs and the atteched testosterone charged quip about sending your Seal teams over to straighten me out…as long as Americans the world over keep meddling in other countries affairs (especially when oilpipelines are in the vicinity) you know where you can stick that one.
Posted by a concerned and baffled european on Nov 14, 2004 at 4:02 PM Dear C&BE;. I will be intersested to see what is developing in Holland right now with the “towelheads” you are so fond of. While the left is comaping Bush to Hitler Europe is facing Muslim radicals invading your European Union. You fail to see the danger at your door. And these “towelheads” are not just after America because of your claim of meddling in other countries affairs. I hope and pray I am wrong about the Muslims but I think in the next decade you europeans are going to beg us (again) to help you fight off the towelheaded hoards.
Why should the government be involved with healthcare. They can’t even get my driver’s license straight. I don’t want social security to gamble with my money. The liberals in this country have been raiding it for decades for their “social(ist) programs. i would rather be in charge of my own retirement not the governmnet! And just remember that testoterone you loathe is the first thing to summon in a war.
Posted by redstate on Nov 14, 2004 at 4:35 PM okay red state you know some one in the seal teams ??? i thought the purpose of the seal teams was for external special missions… hmmmm what you speak of is what the nazis did in the build up of the reich you little insignificant misinformed morron. it is also against the constitution to surveil ourselves so the planning for that little mission is pretty much out…i got an idea why dont you use the bush special forces led by the granddragon you know the bedsheet wearers and their little svasticaz they can operate on american soil make sure you intimidate all of these liberals squash them down and when your done get out your pen and write out “mein kompf by redstate” you are sure to get funding by the bush family i sure do miss a good cross burnin you little fascist pig you…
now stop embarrassing yourself and america with your silly unamerican, unconstitutional views and hatred…i can see you typing franticaly “oh oh use the seals use the seals” put down the fascist video games and rhetoric and maybe no one els will be embarrassed by you idiocy…your like a small child you cant take with you down the street to buy a news paper or a quart of milk. and the metric ton of facts posted earlier wow…“I cannot and will not address each one of you points but I will elaborate on some of the reasons I hate liberals and maybe you can respond.” red-state
with your own post you admit that it is you who are the problem… uneducated white trailerpark trash. and lastly you should be careful a seal in your neighborhood just might take offense at you speaking their respected name in your posts as they work for the american constitution and not the politicos.
Posted by anti-redstate on Nov 14, 2004 at 6:19 PM okay redstate upon further analysis i think you are an imposter type feigning lack of intellect…point blank are you one of the neo-con or pure right wing thinktanks trying to scatter the discussion with trolling like attacks? me-thinks that you are more than what you purport…or are you a “lefty” using reverse psychology…?
and this ladies and gentleman is what we have to be careful of, wolves in sheeps clothing.
Posted by anti-redstate on Nov 14, 2004 at 6:34 PM ho hum anti red state . every seal team member and special ops that I have known has been a patriot and republican to a man so cut the bs talk you little fool. Yeah anybody that does not agree with your little “plan” for america is a fascist, nazi, redneck, racist ad nauseum. Gimme a break dickhead. America is sooo tired of your liberal whine. and don’t you preach to me about the constititution you commie twit. I know how to read the writing on the wall and the Bill of rights. If I were you i’d be sweating out this election and the next few as you seen to pleasure yourself in denigrating George Bush who is a GREAT president.Maybe you are the one who needs to be a little careful about where you walk at night fool.
I am not anybody’s operative I am not even a registered republican. I am just a concerned citizen trying to agitiate and bring out of the closet all you socailist -progressive wackos that want to turn America into your private utopia of communist thinking.
Posted by redstate on Nov 14, 2004 at 8:21 PM oh ye of little intellect….
hahahahaha omg what a gas oh what ...you are starting to sound like a liberal you better be careful you might just become one… if you start reading and understanding the constitution and bill of rights…it is not the puppet in the whitehouse im worried about its fools like you that believe the sheister and the non-sense that is spouted out of his mouth not of his doing/writing but the cabinet members and their buissness “contacts” and/or foreign ventures which tend to contradict the rhetoric preached to us from the almighty presidential pulpit
what would we learn if we werent constantly diverted from the truth the cia/fbi follow the moneytrail…why dont we do the same… but then the truth might set us free…but there are those of us namely redstate that would redily accept the choice of the blue pill and go back to sleep with the misconception that the “party” actualy gave shit about you and for that matter me.
BTW…President george bush admitted to “The Economist” magazine that not only did he and other members of his Cabinet know about the 9-11 terrorist attacks on the WTC but that they also allowed them to happen so that American oil companies could further maximize their profits in the Middle East and Caspian Region of Turkmenistan. Paul Wolfowitz [zeig heil!!!] (Deputy Secretary of Defense)confirmed this startling revelation to the Washinton Post by saying that the airplanes in question were never actually hijacked, but were flown via remote-control into each skyscraper and the Pentagon while military jets were ordered to “stand-down"until this atrocity took place. oh,but then you dont know anything about that
remember the old saying…the mind is like a parachute…it only works when it is open… you learn things like that when you pursue an education not sponsored by “boxed newz netverkz skared undt unbalanced”...are you in the boxps im done stooping to your level redstate ...i will exit stage LEFT and pull back from the event horizon to the black hole which is your rhetoric and mind…empty void and nothing of substance in side
to the foreigners here… http://www.sorryeverybody.com
Posted by anti-redstate on Nov 14, 2004 at 10:20 PM get your tin foil hats boys and girls!! A sitting president knew about the 9/11 attacks. Oil company conspiracies, remote control planes, f-16’s told to stand down..Wheeee! Don’t forget CIA/ FBI conspiracies..get your popcorn. Come on man come clean this is really Michael Moore writing as anti-redstate isn’t it. Come on tell the truth now. It is this convoluted thinking that makes it a sure bet that you folks will continue to be laughed at and voted against by the American people. As for your inane apologetic website do you really think we owe the world an apology for electing Bush?? I think they owe us an aplology for denigrating him. Bye- bye anti red time to go back to your room now and take your medication….what a friggin wack job.
Posted by redstate on Nov 14, 2004 at 10:58 PM what are you sound liek arguing child this red state and anti-redstate. maybe you schould spend less time typeing this stuffs and get busy fixing this mess. Mr. Bush is same thing seen as boy in deutschland many years ago. It is why I left.
accepted of apologies.
Posted by klaus on Nov 15, 2004 at 12:11 AM What makes Bush such a “great” president?
That he managed to turn himself into a tough cowboy and knows how to snarl real mean at those terrorists even though he’s a soft bellied Daddy’s boy from one of America’s richest East coast families with an elitist Yale degree (despite his obvious intellectual shortcomings)and who chickened out of going to Vietnam himself…
or perhaps created a second Vietnam with a steady stream of dead bodies coming back
or even turn America into the world’s most laughed at and hated country
Take your pick Mr redstate but I know you won’t cause you’ll be repeating the same old stories again and again and again…
Posted by a concerned and baffled European on Nov 15, 2004 at 4:43 PM B E O N. well go ahead and debase Bush I never said he was perfect..just damn good. I think Europe is becoming the most laughed at an despised set of countries.
I want to tlak to you in a few years about your tolerance. You are letting in a muslim hord to your soil and in your blind “tolerance” you let in people that are a definite proponent of theocracy , which have no concept of civil liberties and who treat their women like crap. So we’ll see in a few years I bet you won’t laugh at the US any more but will once again be seeking our help to save your sorry snotty little asses from the consequence of your misguided tolearance. Oh and by the way fuck the French.
Posted by redstate on Nov 15, 2004 at 5:16 PM Redstate,
You are rather an obvious imbecile, your dialogue
consists of unproven assertions. liberal use of
profanity and a total inability to come to grips
with opposing arguments, your purpose as a rightwing troll is to disrupt all free speech
boards with your pathetic attempts at intimidation.
The French made possible the American Revolution’s
success, our inane intervention in WW1 in France
made possible the Bolshevik Revolution, the Treaty
of Versailles, Hitler and WW2. The French do not
owe us squat.
“Christian” illiterate morons like you are every
bit as intolerant, stupid and fanatical as those
Islamic hordes whom you want to have a second
crusade against. No thanks.
But why don’t you volunteer to go over there ?
If you’re not the coward that I know you to be,
you will volunteer your butt to go over there.
Then we will be rid of you.
Posted by Michael Hardesty on Nov 15, 2004 at 6:01 PM Michael,
Don’t worry. He won’t. All bark but no bite.He’s probably as much a coward as Bush is. The only thing Bush managed to do in his “steadfast” military “leadership” was to strut his stuff on an airplane carrier of couple of miles off the Californian coast while innocent 18-19 year old American teenagers are getting their heads blown off by desperado kamikazes who no longer have anything to lose. It’s pathetic.
At least the French know how to recognize a turd when they see one.Open your eyes redstate.Oh and by the way fuck all religious fundamentalism.
Posted by a concerned and baffled European on Nov 15, 2004 at 7:37 PM well here is a good start…
Colin Powell to quit Bush cabinet
The White House confirmed it had accepted the resignation of Mr Powell, along with three other members of President Bush’s cabinet.
enough became known about his estrangement that his own deputy Richard Armitage indicated that he and his boss would be leaving if there was a second Bush term.
———————————& ——————————— 8212;——————————̵ 12;——————
guess bush will have only one token nigga now…
———————————& ——————————— 8212;——————————̵ 12;——————
The others are expected to be Energy Secretary Spencer Abraham, Agriculture Secretary Ann Veneman, and Education Secretary Rod Paige.
———————————& ——————————— 8212;——————————̵ 12;——————-
US Attorney General John Ashcroft has resigned from the Bush cabinet, the White House has announced.
I believe that my energies and talents should be directed toward other challenging horizons John Ashcroft
———————————& ——————————— 8212;——————————̵ 12;——————-
omg the nazi is going to go to someone elses country now
———————————& ——————————— 8212;——————————̵ 12;——————-
We have one country, one constitution, and one future that binds us. And when we come together and work together, there is no limit to the greatness of America.
US President George W Bush
———————————& ——————————— 8212;——————————̵ 12;——————-
wow there is a liberal idea holy shit the monkey mimed that from somewhere….
———————————& ——————————— 8212;——————————̵ 12;——————-
Mike Scheuer quit the CIA last week, as did CIA deputy director John McLaughlin, fuelling rumours of serious internal rifts and low morale.
He said the CIA’s executive director had presented him with ways to stay on during a “very cordial, friendly” talk, but “all of them included not speaking out any more”.
———————————& ——————————— 8212;——————————̵ 12;——————-
yeah thats right dont tell the real truth…
yeah this was ripped from the media
Posted by it is soo great huh... on Nov 15, 2004 at 8:02 PM I DID MY TIME hardesty you twit and fuck your homo loving multicultural anti -God rhetoric and you little pussies my bite is WAAAAY worse than my bark you little michael moore lovin little faggots. Now I remember why I hate you mealy mouth little liberals so much y-you have your head up your asses . Ahcroft for president in “08 you faggot turds
Posted by redstate on Nov 15, 2004 at 10:49 PM Redstate,
I have no doubt that yo’ an ex-felon and that you
bent over a pack of cigs.
But is it fair for you to abuse your internet at
the mental hospital in which you currently reside ? Stupid people have to resort to profanity
simply because they do have enough real words in
their vocabularly. I feel very sorry for you but
how much of my tax money are you going to keep
taking ? I mean I offer you my deepest pity in
the tradition of Martin Luther King, Jr. and
Noam Chomsky. You have my deepest and most
profound pity and sympathy.
Posted by Michael Hardesty on Nov 16, 2004 at 12:13 AM ...still waiting on some facts…
...and I must say you never stop amazing me with your blind faith for this oaf you and the Supreme Court put into office…“GREAT president” “damn good” ?!?!?!?!?
...please enlighten the class as to what exactly Bush has done that can be constrewed as good…?
...take a peek here and see if you can refute some of these facts thingys…
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1023-23.htm
...also on the subject of 9/11 - how about some well documented facts (aside than those steadfast 7 minutes our Chief was standing tall and strong reading ‘My Pet Goat’)...how about that the FBI had an informant who actually lived with two of the highjackers and the White House directly blocked the 9/11 Joint Commission from speaking with that informant – to this day no one knows his whereabouts but the FBI and the White House…the second most amazing thing is that the Joint Commission found ( 2 ) separate money streams from the Saudi government that helped fund the terrorists directly…kind of puts Dumbass and his cronies in a bad position if he actually meant ‘You’re either with us or against us.’ doesn’t it…
...and finaly - when are you and the rest of the narrow mined little dolts going to realize that it’s this county’s actions around the globe as to why they hate us - for instance in Saudi Arabia we have military bases on what they consider to be holy land - they don’t, as your president would like to have you believe, ‘hate us for our freedom’...if that was the case they would have attacked Switzerland as well…
...come on junior - one more time I double dare you - how about some facts in your oh so clever retort…
Posted by RJMC on Nov 16, 2004 at 12:16 AM Redstate,
I left out the word “for” between bent and over
in the first sentence of my communication.
YOU BENT OVER FOR A PACK OF CIGS.
Posted by Michael Hardesty on Nov 16, 2004 at 12:16 AM RJMC,
Now let’s be fair here, it’s quite hard for redstate to do research wearing that straightjacket 23 1/2 hours a day.
Posted by Michael Hardesty on Nov 16, 2004 at 12:19 AM Our lovely little two year old kitty, Gina, was killed by a vet at Broadway Pet Hospital here in Oakland last Wednesday afternoon, March 26, 2003. Here’s what happened: Gina was diagnosed with FIV on November 19, 2002 by Dr. Arnold Gutlaizer, the owner of Broadway. We had several tests including ultrasound, bone marrow, tests for other diseases which all turned up negative. She had lost weight, then got her blood cell counts, which had been very low, particularly the white cells, back up to normal and was getting the red cell count back up, with some fluctations. She was on prednisone and some other meds, pills & liquids. In the week before last Monday she had gained 8 ounces, was eating like a horse, was able to go outside when we were home, was purring, walking, talking, eating, washing herself, she was a real trooper. Last Monday I took her in for twice weekly shots & fluids. Gutlaizer decided to do a BUN test for kidneys. He called me the next morning to say the kidneys were perfect. We still decided to go through on the ultrasound just to make sure there were no other problems. I brought her in for the ultrasound that morning, as soon as I get home, Gutlaizer called to say that he needed to aspirate the left enlarged kidney. I bring her back. After the procedure he tells the results should be back in a day or two. At noon the next day, Wednesday, he calls back to say that I needed to bring her in for a biopsy because the ultrasound results were “indeterminate.” I was miffed because this would be the 4th visit in three days but he insisted it was urgent, which was absurd. His young doctor, Roger Schulze, did all the ultrasounds & biopsies, he was going to be out of town after Wednesday until today. A friend told me about a very bad experience she had with Schulze over a botched ultrasound and she had stopped patronizing Broadway because of it. My wife, Nina, is a medical writer, and has never trusted Dr. Gutlaizer, last December he wanted to do “exploratory surgery” on Gina when her blood counts were very low and she was in a much weakened condition. Nina vetoed that at once, and if she had been home I never would taken Gina in for the fatal biopsy. I get there at 12:30, no one is around, finally some one comes out to take her. I never did sign any consent forms. Dr. Schulze calls me after 2:30pm and after some beating around the bush, he tells me she died. I reamed him and then Gutlaizer, had Nina go pick up her body. I’ve ordered a casket & an engraved gravestone, then I’ll bury Gina when it comes tomorrow. In a few weeks we’ll have a memorial service for her. She is a beautiful jet black cat who is partly Siamese, she has that wonderful grating sound that Siamese have, and a more affectionate cat never lived. We are now down to four cats. Elizabeth, a beautiful black & white with one eye, died at the old Broadway facility late last August, she was only 8 & I wasn’t too happy with the way Gutlaizer handled that but she was much sicker than Gina and I stupidly gave Gutlaizer the benefit of the doubt. I had been going to Broadway since 1994 and had spent about 6K on Gina alone since November. Anyway, we are going to write about this, we are filing with the State Vet Board and looking into other options. I don’t want money from Gutlaizer, I just want to prevent him from doing this to other cats in the future, or dogs. The first rule of medicine is Do No Harm. Interestingly enough Gutlaizer told Nina that a lot of people have wanted to sue him, which I find to be a revealing remark. I don’t know if that is a real option but we’re looking into everything.
I think one of the lessons here is you pay attention to your gut instincts at times. And question doctors, many are unbelievably arrogant bastards. Sometimes even listen to your partner, I had been defending Gutlaizer against Nina’s doubts ! No more. I would appreciate any suggestions or feedback. Please no one write me claiming what a great guy Gutlaizer is. This experience more than cancels out anything positive.Posted by: Michael Hardesty on March 31, 2003 02:18 PM
http://www.oaklandnews.com/archives/000026.html
Posted by Nately's Whore on Nov 16, 2004 at 1:00 AM firstly hardesty umm…I get the point first do no harm for doctors. my condolences. Perhaps you may want to consult a Petloss forum they abound on the net.
as for you red-state have you forgotten you zoloft?, The foam and spittle from your mouth started coming out of MY monitor, yeee-uk!!!, might wanna get that blood pressure checked you can consult with the vet that Hardesty took his cat to. the vet is probably approved by john ashcroft and dick chenney’s FDA and you should have smooth sailing from there.
Posted by huh... on Nov 16, 2004 at 2:21 AM sorry Hardesty I see it must have been posted by ta dah ...red-state
Posted by huh... on Nov 16, 2004 at 2:36 AM Hardesty of Natley’s
I am deeply sorry about your cat man..political differences aside I have 5 cats and a dog and we lost one of our cats a while back (I think scorpion or snakebite) but my sincere condolonces the loss of a pet is devestating and I hope ya find a vet who does ya better..stay well.
Posted by redstate on Nov 16, 2004 at 8:01 AM Well, first, thanks to redstate and the others for
their kind words on the loss of our lovely cat,
Gina. Later I found out discrepancies in the medical records on an earlier cat, Elizabeth, whom
we very reluctantly had put to sleep. Same vet.
Then shortly after I penned the above words, our
oldest cat, Tina, was diagnosed with vaccine-induced fibre sarcoma, same vet. Took her to
UC Davis for some months of chemo but she died.
We had beautiful memorial services for all three
cats and they are buried in our backyard with
their own tombstones. I’m not quite sure what this
has to do with the general topic at hand but I do
intend to write about this some day.
Posted by Michael Hardesty on Nov 16, 2004 at 5:18 PM It’s OK - losing an animal that was part of the family IS like losing a child. I still get watery sometimes when I look at a picture of my cat Puma. he used the toilet just like a human and I swear he could talk sometimes . i know what you are saying- loony redneck conservative. Even tho you think low of me I am not a monster. I don’t beat my wife or kick my dog hell i don’t even watch football or NASCAR or drink alcohol. I do stop for turtles on the road and take them someplace the REAL rednecks wont squish them. I do sympathize with you Mr. H over your loss.
Posted by redstate on Nov 16, 2004 at 6:01 PM Thank you very much, redstate, I have a greatly
enhanced opinion of you. Puma sounds great !
Thankfully, you will always have the memories.
I haven’t seen any turtles lately but years ago
driving in western Maryland and West Virginia
I used to stop to move them over too. Don’t see
too many out here around Oakland, probably the
crime rate scares them away !
We lost all three cats, Gina being the youngest,
in the space of one year, August 23, 2002-August 19, 2003. We still have three wonderful cats living with us.
My best to you and your family.
Posted by Michael Hardesty on Nov 16, 2004 at 6:09 PM My pleasure, redstate. And have a great holiday
season !
Posted by Michael Hardesty on Nov 16, 2004 at 10:25 PM you too- happy trails and maybe we’ll talk (politely and respectfully) in another forum…
Posted by Redstate on Nov 16, 2004 at 11:20 PM As a future high school “social studies” teacher, I would like to know what you want your children to learn about this election.
Posted by Emily on Nov 17, 2004 at 7:04 AM Well, offhand I’d say we advise our congressfolk to dump Social Scurity and pass a Feline Security Act.
Posted by A Categorical Consensus on Nov 17, 2004 at 5:48 PM The Bright Side of Vote Theft 2004?
I was going to write a very dark and foreboding article, something along the lines of “America Into the Abyss.” Such may turn out to be the case, yet: one party rule by a fascistic elite, endless wars, conscription, massive terror attacks, martial law, roundups of dissidents, military tribunals, forced experimental inoculations - the list is potentially limitless.But then I had a moment of respite. In a piece called, “Ten Reasons Not to Move to Canada,” I read, “Remember that Nixon was re-elected with a bigger margin than Bush, but faced impeachment within a year.”[1]
Having already tried to impeach the current regime, with no success, and little likelihood of any in the future, I was not immediately comforted. However, the criminality of the Bush administration is not something that can be easily hidden these days, not even from the most gullible of those among us. What’s more, several important legal cases are brewing, any of which could bear fruit.
Some of these cases may be known to you. Valerie Plame was a covert CIA officer (Non-Official Cover, “NOC”), that is until someone in the Bush White House told five different reporters about this fact. The result is that Plame’s entire career and ALL OF HER INTELLIGENCE NETWORKS were immediately destroyed, and the flow of information her efforts were bringing into the US intelligence establishment stopped abruptly. Many have argued, including Plame’s husband, former Ambassador Joseph Wilson (of Iraq / Niger forged document fame) that when the Bush White House “outed” Plame, they committed a felony crime and damaged the national security of the United States. Covering up this crime is also a crime, which bears the name, “Obstruction of Justice,” and possibly, “Conspiracy.”
Plame’s work involved a front company in Saudi Arabia that monitored the oil markets there, in addition to allegedly combating “weapons of mass destruction getting into the hands of terrorists.” The latter activity assures that this case will receive headlines and foment outrage. The former activity—monitoring the oil business inside of Saudi Arabia—could be the actual reason that Plame was outed and her network taken down. The oil men in the White House may have had a problem with the CIA knowing too much about their relationships with the Saudis.
Either way, we now have elements of the CIA in direct opposition to the Bush White House. Both Bush and Cheney have hired private attorneys over this matter, and both could eventually face indictment.[2] Capitol Hill Blue reported:
“Witnesses told a federal grand jury President George W. Bush knew about, and took no action to stop, the release of a covert CIA operative’s name to a journalist in an attempt to discredit her husband, a critic of administration policy in Iraq.” [3]
Note that’s “witnesses,” plural.
The September 11th Cover-Up
Nothing will resonate with the American people more than learning that their own government attacked them on 9-11. There is no wiggle room for mass murdering Treason. Treason is defined in our Constitution in Article III:
“Section 3. Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort.”
-U.S. ConstitutionEllen Mariani, a September 11th widow, has brought a civil lawsuit in federal court against Bush, Cheney, Ashcroft et al., under the RICO Act. Her central complaint is that the Bush regime committed Treason by deliberately allowing the September 11th attacks to succeed and/or aided and abetted the perpetrators. Details of the lawsuit can be found here: http://911forthetruth.com/
CONTINUED AT CRIMES OF THE STATE BLOG
http://crimesofthestate.blogspot.com
Posted by John Doraemi on Nov 18, 2004 at 12:56 AM Now the next thing you’ll be saying is that just because the company’s that make the voting-computer-machines are ALL big Bush supporters that they “mis-counted” the 2004 election. Or that John Ashcroft will be named Chief Judge of the Supreme Court or that the “Term Limitations” ammendment will be over-turned so that BushCo may remain in office(read-throne) for as long as they want…
Posted by magistre on Nov 18, 2004 at 6:14 PM The Republican owned/controlled media is but one cog in the wheel that is turning our country to the extreme right. They don’t want to just control the message; they want to permeate government so that they can control our society.
The Reactionary Right and the Power Seeking Far Right Christians are not in this for the short term. They are here for the long-haul and they are wholly committing themselves to the fulfillment of their agenda in very real and long-lasting ways. For them, 2004 is just one objective in their long agenda to refashion the US government in a way that reflects their biblical values. Secularism be damned.
They are home-schooling their children so that they can control the ideas to which their children are exposed. Humanistic values, ideas of progress, science and secularism which sprang from the Enlightenment, the dogma-shattering theory of evolution are all taught as evils of the world which have no place in the US culture. From there these narrowly-educated children are sent to ultra-conservative colleges funded by Texan republicans where they continue their narrow education and their civic duty to seek power is carefully nurtured. From there the young adults are sent to Republican politicians to intern and learn how to obtain, maintain and wield power.
They are turning out future generations of narrowly-educated children to promulgate their narrow view of the world for generations to come. They want power and they intend to make their hold on power pervasive and long-term.
This isn’t just about their control of the media. It’s about power in the hands of some Christians (albeit extremists) who refute the foundation of our government - blessed secularism.
What like efforts are being made to thwart their overthrow our Constitution and American Way of Life? None, save feeble protestations, gnashing of teeth, howling at the moon and fists shaken at the stars. Who among the liberty-minded are raising their children to value, cherish, defend, honor and preserve American ideals?
It always starts at home.
Posted by Constitution Is My Bible on Nov 18, 2004 at 11:11 PM Here here!It’s music to my ears.Hoping such well-argumented views and similar wisdom will prevail in the long term as despite the rising tide of anti-Americanism throughout the world most Europeans still look upon America as a beacon of light.Keep the (secular)faith.We’ve already forgiven you… but don’t let it happen again;-)
Posted by a concerned and baffled european on Nov 19, 2004 at 6:05 PM It’s funny to here all the liberals talk about the conservative media and all us conservatives talk about the liberal media bias. How can different people see the same thing and reach diametrically opposed conclusions? Granted FOX News is conservative, no argument here, but Ted Turner (I can’t remember if he still runs CNN) is kind of liberal himself. This argument aside the concept of journalistic integrity is a farce everyone is pushing their own agenda and I don’t know how conservatives or liberals are going to get the real truth anymore.
Posted by giantsox on Nov 19, 2004 at 10:37 PM Hey ‘redstate’! What did the NAZI’S do that was so bad? Well I’ll tell you. They invaded countries that were of no direct threat to them for economic gain, interred people indefinatly without trial, and ignored international law regarding the treatment of captives. All in the name of a network of rich industrialists who supported the party in its initial quest for power. Sound familiar?
They were crazy, but not that crazy. They knew the value of other peoples capital, and they knew how to spin their greed in such a way that other people would experience it as fear.
Posted by Matilda on Nov 20, 2004 at 10:25 AM Ted Turner liberal?? May wanna check those facts there giantsox…
Posted by Mattdog on Nov 23, 2004 at 6:01 AM Presidential Madness - The president lives in a 132 room mansion (the White House) which is rent free, on an 18 acre estate with millions of dollars for his annual budget - and a very well-stocked wine cellar, private movie room, gymnasium, tennis courts, bowling alley, heated swimming pool and a lot more, including limousines, helicopters, a submarine, private jets and he is the commander of the armed forces of the world’s only super-power. (And he has his finger on the nuclear trigger.)
* Corporate States Of America
http://www.g0lem.net/PhpWiki/index.php/CorporateStatesOfAmerica
Posted by Hank Roth on Nov 23, 2004 at 8:15 PM So Redstate can’t get a date except to steal a cat…hmm?
Its not only the government but the media because controlling the populace has to be from all sides. And believe me their control will be absolute.
Did anyone think it funny that the born again Christians turn to “Mammon” to gain control. I guess politics does make “strange bedfellows”!?!
Posted by magistre on Nov 24, 2004 at 2:46 AM The conservative triumph in the media arena just proves that H L Mencken was right when he observed that “Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.” The result of this in the last election was the the Republicans swept the poorest and most uneducated states, and returned to the White House a man who is arguably the most intellectually deficient President in American history. The unbeatable combination of old-fashioned simplemindedness and religion is now a monopoly that the Republicans will ride to their dream of perpetual one party rule.
Some liberals have argued that the left should abandon its traditional staunch secularism and embrace a kind of phony religiosity as part of a path back to power. I would not support that idea, but in any event, it would not work. The key to success is the magic mix of real intellectual simplemindedness AND relgion. I don’t think that liberals are capable of achieving the sort of outright stupidity makes Bush so attractive to his followers.
Posted by SkipChurch, Annoying Internet Infidel on Nov 26, 2004 at 7:53 PM Mattdog,
I’ll check those facts and get back with you. I appreciate your want for a true statement.
Posted by giantsox on Nov 27, 2004 at 7:17 PM Michael,
How are the ribs doing? You broke a few some months back—how are they healing?Did you owe some mob guys some money? :)
Posted by Neil on Nov 29, 2004 at 5:36 PM Here’s a sign of what’s wrong with “liberals” in general:
“John Kerry’s well-fought campaign—and the youthful energy that surrounded it—may have been an encouraging sign,”
John Kerry is a warmonger. He voted for war. He voted to unconstitutionally gut our bill of rights in the “Patriot Act.” He attempted to out-Bush Bush on the question of ongoing war crimes in Asia.
That “liberals” don’t accept this at face value, and instead champion someone who would arguably be worse for the world than the chimpanzee currently in charge shows the real problem we face.
The second assumption—almost as bad as the first—is that the left media is unquestonably honest, and not propagandistic.
“it’s also a legitimate criticism of the Democrats and progressives that they haven’t fought nearly as hard as they should for honest information, the oxygen of any healthy democracy.”
Parry touts Air America as an example. Outlets like (for profit) Air America are not bastions of “honest information.” They are partisan mouthpieces, much like the Republican variety. This may not be evident to people who agree with most of the messages.
I’m all for “honest information,” but I don’t for a minute trust Al Franken to give it to me, thank you very much. Has Franken taken on the September 11th conspiracy? No? Why’s that?
I don’t trust most of the established “left media.” If they’re not willing to put it on the line (and on the air), then they are compromised. The extent of those compromises cannot easily be deduced.
http://leftgatekeepers.com/ attempts to show the connections between questionable funding sources and the established left media. Some interesting tracks lead back to central intelligence.
As for the warmongering, collaborating, corporate financed Democratic Party—I hope the Party dies a swift and irreversible death, to be replaced by an honest alternative, from the grass roots, which will take on the vicious elites, not join them in their rampages and the grand theft of the nation.
Oh yeah, I recall Air America taking sponsorship from the US Army (sending your kids off to become hamburger). That’s when I couldn’t take it anymore. Talk about compromising your “liberal,” “honest,” “values.”
For “honest information,” check out LISTENER SPONSORED (not for profit) networks like pacifica.org, and radio stations like kpfk.org (Los Angeles).
John Doraemi publishes Crimes of the State, at:
http://crimesofthestate.blogspot.com/
Posted by Doraemi on Dec 2, 2004 at 12:45 AM Dear Neil,
I hadn’t looked at this board for a few weeks
and I just saw the posting that you did on my birthday. I have long since healed, it was
just an accident tripping over a metal magazine
case in the very early am when I was getting up.
Hope all’s well with you.
And, Callista, thanks for your comments !
Oddly enough, I ran into that awful vet at
Ace Hardware on Monday, Novemeber 29, which I
took off to celebrate my 60th birthday. He
looked quite ashen, nervously waved and slunk
away.
Posted by Michael Hardesty on Dec 3, 2004 at 12:56 AM It doesn’t matter who you vote for because the “game” is rigged: “It doesn’t matter who votes, it only matters who counts the votes!” (Karl Rove)
Posted by magistre on Dec 4, 2004 at 9:39 PM About 3 weeks ago I had spoken with an activist friend (from the Clark
campaign) exactly about this flow of information dominance by the extreme
right wing. I suggested that the only way to counter this is for activist
groups (nationwide and in every american city)purchase a loudspeaker
system and force feed the truth from the underground media to our sleeping
american citizenry through these loudspeaker systems during scheduled multiple demonstration rallys. I would be overjoyed to help fund a loudspeaker system for a hoped for local activist group whose sole purpose is to broadcast the truth. I also would be overjoyed to participate in these rallys of truth.
I fear that if this is not done, we are doomed to a failed democracy!
Please pass this on and maybe the idea will catch; I HOPE!
Mike
Posted by Mike Gash on Jan 7, 2005 at 9:07 AM About 3 weeks ago I had spoken with an activist friend (from the Clark
campaign) exactly about this flow of information dominance by the extreme
right wing. I suggested that the only way to counter this is for activist
groups (nationwide and in every american city)purchase a loudspeaker
system and force feed the truth from the underground media to our sleeping
american citizenry through these loudspeaker systems during scheduled multiple demonstration rallys. I would be overjoyed to help fund a loudspeaker system for a hoped for local activist group whose sole purpose is to broadcast the truth. I also would be overjoyed to participate in these rallys of truth
I fear that if this is not done, we are doomed to a failed democracy!
Mike
Posted by Mike Gash on Jan 7, 2005 at 9:11 AM Page 1 of 1 pages -
register a new account »Posting Security
Also by Robert Parry
Popular Discussions
- The 9/11 Faith Movement
Many Americans believe 9/11 was a conspiracy by the U.S. government
1979 posts since Jul 11 06 - What’s the 411 on 9/11?
891 posts since Dec 21 05 - Democrats: It’s the War
659 posts since Nov 1 05 - Was the Presidential Election Stolen?
462 posts since Jun 19 06 - A Fundamental History Lesson
The rise of National Socialism proved politics and religion don't mix
427 posts since Oct 10 05
© 2004 In These Times | Reprint Policy | Privacy Policy | Powered by Expression Engine | RSS Feeds
