There is a small City on one of the bends of the Euphrates that sticks out into the great Syrian Desert. It’s on an ancient trade route linking the oasis towns of the Nejd province of what is today Saudi Arabia with the great cities of Aleppo and Mosul to the north. It also is on the desert highway between Baghdad… return to article
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Reader Comments (212)This is great for those that find it to read.
I know there is a time, and it is very near. The day’s are numbered and the numbers are very small for each and every one to find their maker.
How will they be accpeted is a nother topic all together.
Surley Allah loves those that are the close to him.
Victory is and will allway’s be with those that are oppresed.
Never has a bad deed been rewarded by GOOD from man nor Allah.
PEACE
Posted by Abdull Rahman on Nov 13, 2004 at 2:47 PM Its a well written and documented write-up…the stress on ‘history’ is the most important thing of our time as we never think about the history of a land or terms like ‘terrorist’ or ‘liberation’ or democracy when thinking about the present. Also we miss the point that these apparently easy and fun to use terms (freedom for one) are politically immensely loaded.
This small article touches these vital points too.
But one must wonder…how far can one go in this age of information boom, depending only on alternative media while all the ‘big’ media is constructing a different story….in the 16th-17th century when printed papers first came into being…surely it helped a lot to disseminate knowledge against the authority…but now, how can one fight against the big media?
Posted by willtoread on Nov 13, 2004 at 6:16 PM Rashid:
Thanks for providing a perspective that is not readily available for American consumption.
Posted by Theloneous on Nov 13, 2004 at 8:55 PM i’m glad i read this—it’s sometimes amazing how naive our government is, how it seems they haven’t thought about history or any other perspectives. have they ever been to the Middle East and seen that it is a different world, that they don’t recognize American goodness as a given? jeez—it’s like our country is in fantasyland.
and i agree with willtoread: how can we fight big media? how can we fight such absurd indoctrination, except to say “hey that’s not right” and still be overwhelmed by the majority?
Posted by matthew on Nov 13, 2004 at 9:39 PM Very nice article. The difference between what is said and what is done is particularly important to highlight.
Posted by Mikhail Capone on Nov 13, 2004 at 10:16 PM Thank you Rashid Khalidi for the History Lesson!
However my heart is hurting when I see the mess the USA made of this wonderful place, Fallujah.
Not to mention the suffering that people there have to endure.I pray for all the people of Fallujah and hope some normal life will return when the troops move out.
Posted by Karin on Nov 14, 2004 at 12:07 AM Scottish people who are “free” support our Brothers & Sisters in Iraq - may you too be Free.
Posted by Dave Dundee on Nov 14, 2004 at 12:54 AM The promiss of allah to muslim is victory all over the world not only falujah insha’allah even all muslim die alhamdulillah they are all shaheed in the sight of allah..
So Kristian & jews they will think where they where go when they were die ? that is the big question Alhamdulillah praised all muslim around the world paradise is the place of muslim faithfull and devoted to allah…
this world is not enough to human kind where we as place in.Inside world is like a game but if you have true faith insha’allah the promissed of allah is paradise not for kristian nor jews but for muslim faithful… Victory or Martyrdom !
Posted by Kim on Nov 14, 2004 at 6:54 AM appears that all reporters have left out-the real cause ISRAEL and it’s Western Jewish Industrialists.
Israel was not created for the homeless jews but England and America’s foothold in the middle-east.What fools we are—U.N. was solely created for the creation of Israel.Sad,no-one dares to say—Rid all the Russian Jews out of the land Palestine.Notice no Jew complains of France helping Arafat—-Ya1—they helped in killing him.
IsraOil—Blight on all of us!
Posted by george on Nov 14, 2004 at 12:27 PM in reply to george on November 14. Good point. It seems a three pronged approach with the same intention. Oil, securing Israel and a right wing fundamentalist christian crusade (which ties into Israel because they want the Israelies to build their temple on Temple Mount and knock the Mosque down - this is inline with the alledged prophesy that the end of days can only happen with a jewish temple on that land. All interesting stuff. But the problem is that Muslims are a lot harder then they think.
Posted by Asif Rahman on Nov 14, 2004 at 2:34 PM Booooring…
People should be helping instead of writing stuff like this, if they’re so upset about it. By the way, this is not helping.
Posted by x on Nov 14, 2004 at 5:03 PM We are far from Irak, and we are weak, so we must make Dou3a to aour Brothers in Falluja and else where in irak and other places, where the moslems are attacked, killed, and colonised, and where they are practicing a selfdefence-djihad (like in tchetchenia).
Victory or Shahada (paradise in chaa allah) for the Moudjahidin, defeat AND Hell for the Kouffar, Amin
Posted by Berber on Nov 14, 2004 at 9:49 PM x, it might be boring to you, it isn’t to all of us!
I suggest you stop reading here and go back to reading comic books.
Posted by Karin on Nov 14, 2004 at 10:57 PM It’s seems as though the Bush Oil Mafia underestimated the will and strength of the Iraqi people. To be sure, the U.S. intelligence community completely missed the historical significance and the role it plays in the region. And one point in particular; those people there have never known anything but war and will fight to the bitter end to overcome outside imperialistic powers controlling and exploiting them.
Posted by Benjamin on Nov 15, 2004 at 12:17 AM Thank you, Rashid, for an informative piece of news. It is very unfortunate that the average US citizen is obviously so uninformed or ill informed that they continue to support an administration causing so much harm in the world in the name of “fight on terrorism” , which they have created themselves originally. We, the citizens of the rest of the world, rather risk to be labelled “old” by the likes of Rumsfeld etc, than agree to follow an illegal crusade for oil.
Keep up your fight for real freedom!
Posted by Cyberdad on Nov 15, 2004 at 2:08 AM This old Crown Colony has already finished itself off, though most of the people don’t understand the how and why of it.
“It’s the nuclear weapons stupid!”
Read The how and why of it at http://politicsofet.com
Posted by Pat Sullivan on Nov 15, 2004 at 2:14 AM This should be required reading for every American who wants to understand what our government is doing in our name,and how we are seen in the eyes of the world. I can only hope that someone in the American media has the integrity to broadcast this to a larger audience that desperately needs to see it. Thank you.
Posted by Kelli on Nov 15, 2004 at 2:18 AM Thanks for the article. It made me realize what should have been obvious—I don’t know the history of the Middle East. However, the US government does. I think it just doesn’t care. As a U.S. citizen, whose tax dollars go to support invasions in the Middle East, I apologize to those in Iraq and Afghanistan. I’m doing what I know to do, little as it is, to stop the Bush agenda.
Posted by amy on Nov 15, 2004 at 2:38 AM america is done. it is very interesting to see how the Iraqis are fighting for their country even if it means death and destruction. that surprising part in the world is that Americans aren’t fighting for their country anymore, they had forfieted their coutry to their masters: the jew bankers and the zionists. Americans are finished they will be destroyed when their usefullness is no longer needed. just read the old testament ( the forged bible by the jews) or better yet Read the “controversy of Zion” by Douglas Reed. You will see the futur of America there. The zionists in this country are living like demi-gods..they are stealing the gentiles blind and raping their daughters and sons. the biggest child smuggling ring is in the hands of jews in America and canada..selling little boys and little girls to psychos is a big buisness in the hands of the jews in America…nextime your child is missing he is sold by your friendly jew who claim his parents are hallow-hoax survivers
Posted by sam on Nov 15, 2004 at 2:52 AM 55 US Soldiers Killed This Week
At least 34 killed in Fallujah alone[Associated Press: BAGHDAD, Iraq - U.S. military announced Sunday that 38 U.S. troops have been killed and 275 wounded in the ongoing operation in Fallujah: http://www.sunherald.com/mld/sunherald/news/breaking_news/10181636.htm]
by Michael Ewenshttp://www.antiwar.com/ewens/?articleid=3977
In a flurry of weekend press releases, the Department of Defense named another 23 U.S. soldiers killed in Iraq. These deaths bring the total killed since Nov. 8 to 55. Such facts may conflict with “official numbers” released to the unquestioning media. However, in an apparent response to this article, the DoD is now reporting that 38 US troops have died in Fallujah. The discrepancy in numbers may stem from unreported deaths. We will only know after the troops’ names are officially released.(wounded lift to Germany: 412)
Posted by Lear on Nov 15, 2004 at 3:08 AM Some good comments here on a solid article. It has been clear to me for some time that what will ultimately bring down the curtain on Bush and his greedy plans for global imperialism and domination will be the faltering US economy. Just this weekend Sy Hersh, Pulitzer Prize-winning reporter, stated that countries all over the world have finally had it with Bush and his war plans and have begun drawing back from financial support of US corporations and investments. The economic crunch will be very severe, and Americans will begin to wake up from their deluded state soon enough.
Posted by Jim Logan on Nov 15, 2004 at 3:43 AM These long cerebral articles are not read by the lowbrows, whom unfortunately, are the bulk of the Red states.
other than that- excellent article
Posted by John on Nov 15, 2004 at 8:26 AM JUST LIKE READING A COMIC BOOK—but more scarie!
The first recorded political act of Iyad Allawi — now the interim prime minister of Iraq, then the student organiser for Saddam Hussein’s Baath party — struck some as a little extreme, even by the standards of Sixties campus politics. ‘We were at medical school in [pre-Saddam] Baghdad together,’ said his contemporary and, more recently, colleague on the Iraqi governing council, Raja al-Khuzai. ‘When we turned up for our exams, we found Iyad at the door of the examination hall, wearing combat gear and holding a machine-gun. He said, “I’m not going to allow anyone to take the exam. We’re on strike.” We were scared.’Following the unfortunate failure of this démarche — the exams eventually went ahead, after the authorities sent in tanks — Mr Allawi evidently decided that the time for liberal pussyfooting was over. With a friend, Adel Abdul Mahdi, he arranged to kidnap the dean of the university to publicise the Baath cause. ‘We took Iraq’s first hostages,’ recalls Mr Abdul Mahdi, now Iraq’s finance minister, nostalgically. The two men did time for the offence, until a Baathist coup got them back out again.
Now, as the US threatens to destroy Fallujah in order to save it, Mr Allawi is once again at the centre of an act of violence aimed at strengthening his position. He is both the supposed author of the American offensive and definitely its intended beneficiary. Actually, of course, the authorship lies elsewhere and Mr Allawi may not even be the beneficiary. Leaving aside the tricky question of whether democracy and freedom can be built on a pile of civilian corpses, a close examination of the past of this old Baathist intriguer makes clear that to represent him as a standard-bearer of liberty is a very hard sell indeed.
After his sterling efforts in Sixties Baghdad, and the final revolution that brought Saddam to power as vice-president, Mr Allawi was promoted to head the Iraqi Student Union in Europe, a key intelligence-related post that required him to cultivate the elite Arab students who headed for the universities of London. Some time in the 1970s, disillusioned with the regime, he started what was to be the major political relationship of his life — with British intelligence, MI6. (It nearly led to his murder in 1978, when Iraqi agents burst into his suburban London home and tried to axe him to death.)
Saddam’s invasion of Kuwait, in 1990, gave Mr Allawi the catalyst he needed. With another man, Salih Omar, whose democratic credentials included supervising public hangings for the regime, Allawi founded al-Wifaq, or the Iraqi National Accord, a small but influential collection of almost exclusively ex-Baathists who had held office but fallen out with Saddam. From the beginning, the INA was never meant to be any sort of mass movement. Its aim was never to bring democracy to Iraq, but to engineer a palace coup which would see, in Allawi’s estimate, the top 30 to 40 leaders replaced by ... well, people like himself.
The INA’s first act was to set up an opposition radio station in Saudi Arabia during the war. But it soon realised that its aims were better served by targeting a narrower, more credulous market, the international intelligence community. Allawi was good at this. Unlike his main rival in Iraqi exile politics, the banker Ahmed Chalabi, he was low-key and persuasive, hinting at highly placed contacts inside the regime who were ready to turn the West’s way. Not for the last time, Iyad Allawi was telling the British, and later the US, governments exactly what they wanted to hear, and the CIA millions started to pour in.
Posted by george on Nov 15, 2004 at 11:58 AM Excellent article and commentary, see what we get when the “corporate media” is challenged. Here are my insights into what the future holds. Noam Chomsky pointed out in his highly respected work
“Deterring Democracy”, that with the Cold War over and the Soviets retreating from the Middle East, the major obstacle to U.S. global design departed. This in turn set up what he logically foresaw as the inevitable, U.S. and her client states intervention. Natural resource control, but chiefly political control. Iraq holds 10%, Saudi Arabia 25%, Iran 10%, Kuwait 10% and other Arab states 10% respectively (OIL) Chinese imports of Iranian oil have the highest national security priority given their demand will double in 6 years. Current output of oil globally is 83 million/bpd, that will not rise in accordance with demand, mainly Eurasian (Indian, Chinese). Western oil corporations (British, French and U.S.) will profit immensely in the near to mid term from increased military occupation and aggression in the region. Thus the incentive to escalate the regions wars from today´s Iraq/Afghanistan to tommorrows Iran/Saudi Arabia by 2007. Imagine a world in which the U.S. has virtually total control over the global oil production and distribution or at least 85% of it. China, Europe and the rapidly growing third world will be compelled to acquiese to the oil-war faction of the U.S. oligolopy (We have no democracy in America folks, accept it.) The U.S. economy is totally dependent upon foreign direct investment in three forms (stock purchase, bond purchase, investment) Annually since 1990 that aggregate increased from 90 Billion to 950 Billion by 2002. Today´s numbers are likely lower due to combined global opposition to U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East. We can´t reverse the trade deficit 6.3% (635 Billion) rapidly enough to offset the hemmorhage of the national wealth, so we must coerce the world to invest in America, without which the standard of living would collapse by about 4-5% per annum. Imagine unemployment at 14% in two years from now. The message here is; We are fighting a global war (economic and militarily) against the world, yet the newspeak can´t outright say it, we must understand this trend has been occurring for over 35 years now. The U.S. once controlled 51% of the global GDP (1945), today 21-23% (2004). America is basically fighting for it´s economic survival and the only weapon it has left in the arsenal is the military. Yet, our brutality and the total departure from civilized and universal norms (human rights, Geneva Convention) in essence were only publicly perceived under the Bush administrtion. We talk a good game only, Americans need to look at the current day society they have surrounding themselves and compare their Social Darwinianism with Europes Breed of Socialism. Vast and deep differences, not only in it´s attitude towards war and it´s usage but towards mankind in general. I see the future to consist of more of the same, more war and without end, perhaps for a decade and a half. Opposition over here to the U.S. economic and military design has gone off the charts. (Europe) Europeanized Americans like myself can only shudder when we glance across the Atlantic, we pray for radical change, but must appease the beast untill we can challenge it on par. That´s is not what we would choose to do, understand this clearly, factions within Europe are very Pro-American, others are strongly De Gaullistic, Independent, yet ultimately America wants to isolate and divide Europe and Eurasia as well. It desires global domination and that´s where you Americans come into the picture, are you all really able and capable of reversing the drive to total warfare with the globe? No, but then again ...who knows the future so well. We´ll have to wait it out and see just how furious Japan, China and core Europe react to the next invasion(Iran)or (Saudi Arabia) 2005-2007. All analysis by our experts points to it, we´re are racing to head it off, just look at the desperate diplomatic activities by the EU today. In 2020 when alternative fuels supply 25-35% or maybe more of the global energy demand, it may already have been too late, the U.S. is accelerating the speed in order to undermine and ultimately destroy the economies of Europe and Eurasia. We are at war (defensively) with America, a cold-war if you will. Look at the Ivory Coast, U.S. backed regime attacking French military bases. Keep a close eye on this folks, it´s evolving and may spin too fast. Anyway, don´t believe everything you hear, be sceptical and view it theoretically on a scenario basis, If..then approach. Works fine for me. May your supreme being protect you from the Federation as well.
Posted by Caroline on Nov 15, 2004 at 2:27 PM What’s hapening in Iraq is a crime against all humanity, not just Muslims! The various establishments, in most situations, are determined to acheive just one thing; total control for them and their kind, at the expense of everyone else! To acheive this, they’ll use religion, democracy, “freedom”, or any argument that can be twisted to their ends, and it is foolish to follow “leaders” of any kind, beit neocons in the US or imams seeking power in Iraq (who are guilty of playing the same games as Bush and his ilk).
It may seem trite to those who are being bombed, but the problem is far greater than events at Falluja, and effects us all. When will people worldwide simply learn to say no to the ambitious and greedy?
Posted by gwynfryn on Nov 15, 2004 at 3:40 PM What do ou mean democracy means what is good for America?
When Bush says he is for democracy, he means what is good fot HALLIBURTON
Posted by George on Nov 15, 2004 at 4:24 PM Professor Khalidi’s brilliant exposé of the conflagration in Fallujah just over 80 years ago and the senseless human toll of that imperialistic adventure should be a “de-javu” experience for all —Arab and non-Arabs—who witnessed the events unfolding in Iraq at the time. For those who have read his piece, it is a undeniable testament to the eerily similar events imploding in Iraq as we speak. All indications are that it will end up with the same consequences, it is only a matter of time. The US military will be forced to put its tail between its legs and exit Iraq because today’s only superpower cannot enforce “democracy” through the barrels of a gun, even though it may temporarily gain some political advantage (a take on Mao). The other superpower of the day - the British - tried as much but failed vainly. Sadly, history, inspite of the enormous wisdom and lessons it offers warmongers to judge and weigh the uninteded consequences of their brutal actions, has rarely served as a retropective guide.
This piece of historical enlightenment is even more disheartening given that the present US imperial adventure in Iraq continues to be guided by parochial, self-serving, faith-based, religiously-driven principles as opposed to the realities on the ground, which has changed dramatically since the early invasion. Countless human lives on both sides—especially ordinary Iraqi citizens—will be lost, but at the end Iraq will fall to the Iraqis. For those who doubt this outcome and want a historical perspective, “Bush in Babylon” by Tariq Ali will take you through a remarkable glimpse of the British misadventure in the post-war period.
Posted by Ash on Nov 15, 2004 at 4:30 PM Wow! Thanks for the background info on Fallujah. Amazing what a person can learn when they take five minutes to read something. Knowledge IS power….Excuse me. The commercial break is over. Got to get back to watching “Fear Factor.” SO much less “boooring” than reading history.
Posted by Kim on Nov 15, 2004 at 4:30 PM As an Agnostic or Deist I do not ascribe to the teachings of any organized religeon and decry organized religeon as a tool for division and control. The Bush regime has cranked that up to a level rarely acheived in history and the corporate press in the U.S. may as well be officially state controlled.
The quick concession speech by Kerry is suspicious in light of the widespread voting shenanigans in Ohio and Florida. The spineless Democrats are questioning their strategy when it does not matter if the votes are handled exclusively by the opposing party.
Voting machines should be government built with government approved software and provide 2 different auditing methods. Without an open, nonpartisan voting process there is no democracy.
I believe America’s foreign policy of kill first, steal later and speak an alternate reality to the masses of citizens unmotivated to learn the truth will come to an end within the next 2 years.
As soon as the dumb as a rock Democrats in the U.S. Congress get it through their thick skulls that they facilitate a massively murderous, thieving, maniacal American dictator who steamrolls them when they try to play nice, the naked, murderous, irresponsible, greed will be exposed to the masses of dumbasses who voted for him.
They let him get away with 9/11 and stealing another election. I feel like I’m living in the Twilight Zone. An alternate reality.
Final thought. There should be a rule that any candidate for president of the U.S. should at least be a man who has traveled outside this country. How can a rich American in his 50s not even have a passport (at least when he ran in 2000)? That says a lot about him.
Posted by Rick on Nov 15, 2004 at 6:21 PM ok it is a good article but I think It is too late for the USA people and the world, we will all embark in a world war of low to middle intensity. but be happy big companies and the capitalist system will benefit from this bloodshed, financial channels are already enjoying the ‘benefits’
Posted by Abdel on Nov 15, 2004 at 8:11 PM Caroline: I’m sure you have some great points in your post. It’s just too bad that I won’t be reading any of them.
Here’s a hint: use a PARAGRAPH every third sentance or so, it makes it easier to read. Thanks.
History lesson: while the points in this article are dead-on, one needs go back no further than Vietnam to understand that wars of ideology are doomed to failure, and a motivated insurgency (i.e. “the people who live there”) can out-last the mightiest of militaries.
Now, if only our esteemed administration had a fucking clue!
Posted by g-love on Nov 15, 2004 at 8:29 PM I too pray for all involved in this senseless carnage…..
but i must also to those who agree with the above poster who said:
>>>>The promiss of allah to muslim is victory all over the world not only falujah insha’allah even all muslim die alhamdulillah they are all shaheed in the sight of allah..
So Kristian & jews they will think where they where go when they were die ? that is the big question Alhamdulillah praised all muslim around the world paradise is the place of muslim faithfull and devoted to allah…
this world is not enough to human kind where we as place in.Inside world is like a game but if you have true faith insha’allah the promissed of allah is paradise not for kristian nor jews but for muslim faithful… Victory or Martyrdom ! <<<<<<
I must say that you are as much of the problem as neocons in washington.
your one sided religiosity is retarded and show that you are only sheep.
mankind should be big enough to realise that religion is very much the cause of our isms and therefore our problems.God or Allah or YHVH does not take sides based on man made religions. If you think he does you are trying to limit him and you are a fool.
Posted by JON on Nov 15, 2004 at 11:49 PM Jon, I suggest someone should be tasked with posting the Khalidi article across various “pro-red” websites to get a response from your “ordinary”: faith-drivelling; bible-thumping; messiah-coming; Rupture-awaiting; soul-rebirthing; evangelic-prophesizing; hallelujah-SING, GOP-glorifying, bush-idolizing, moron-for-president accepting; Blair endearing, neo-conservatizing, stars-and-stripe waving; flag- wrapping; yellow-ribboning; pro-“shock- and aweing”; pro-bunker-busting; fear-mongering; arab-hating; ass-kicking; “Abu-ghrabbing”; iraqi-dog-leashing; “hearts-and-minds winning; car-lot “fallujah-Sizing”; Kaffeya-bashing; hijab-attacking; war-patronizing; muslim blood-letting; pro “insurgency-crushing” “democratizing; jerusalem-crusading; middle-east nuking - albeit Israeli-arse licking; pro Jewish- lobbying; European-despising; frog-hating; pro-French-fries embargoin; Arab-dictator-loving; xenophobizing;hate-spewing; global-American corporatizing; oil-profiteering; first-amendment proclaiming; gun-toting; Marlboro-smoking; gay-bashing; anti-aborting; evolution-theory banning; Halliburton-contracting “free”-marketing; pro 100% Iraqi-privatizing; spoils-of-war plundering; puppet-electioneering; Dennis-Miller cheering;, Toby/Britney euphoring, Janet-cri"tits"iz;, pathologically-lying; fact-distorting; truth-denying; and, CNN-FOX-ABC-NBC-CBS 24/7 mainstream “prole”-feeding FOLKS who subscribe to one or more factions of the great “red” rainbow coalition,
Posted by Ash on Nov 16, 2004 at 12:15 AM unfortunately it is not solely the christians that are the problem.
it is the concept of religionisms.they amass one against another, and then we see the ignorant sheep like the jihadists above.
problem is, american or iraqi, we have the same problems, which are corruption, dishonesty, and political corruption. the iraqis are under occupation and so are we in america.
the solution is not to sit here like an ignorant fuck and argue about who is going to heaven (yeah you kim from up above) .
this life matters, we aer alive and should cherish that. martyrs are a waste. you do ABSOLUTELY nothing for change when you are dead.
Posted by jon on Nov 16, 2004 at 12:35 AM Tut tut, if there was no religion, there would be another reason to make war - money, resources, looks etc.. It never ends - its human nature to be this way. Thats why Islam’s true meaning of Jihad is the fight the temptations that start in our own minds. If everyone took that seriously, then we would have no problems.
Blaming religion is like a bad work man blaming his tools.
Posted by Asif Rahman on Nov 16, 2004 at 2:13 AM Caroline, Ash, and Asif, your comments are very on mark and key, even better than the article. Thanks
Posted by pjames on Nov 16, 2004 at 8:53 AM I WOULD JUST LIKE TO SAY WHAT MY LATE FATHER USED SAY “THERE’S NOTHING NEW UNDER THE SUN”
Posted by CARY G DEAN on Nov 16, 2004 at 9:36 AM They are speaking about election frauds. Someone must have asked Bush and Kerry that both of you members of a society Skull and Bone, a secret society nothing can be explained of the secrecy. I have a simple question if you don’t want to share the secret than both of you are rejected candidates as you are both a home team everything is common in you and your secret may be todestoy us so, please be away from politics, American accept them as they are then why shouting now for fraud in election, there would be no difference between Bush and Kerry, as their goals are the same. If anyone think that Kerry would have done better than one is the most foolish their agenda was that of Skull and Bones, all are conspiracies so live ib conspiracies and die in conspiracies but call that a Democracy..
Sometims I think perhaps Bernard Shaw was righ when he defined Democracy as “Government of quantity and not of quality, and fools are more in numbr therefore democracy is a Government of fools.”
Posted by desert_wolf on Nov 16, 2004 at 9:41 AM I had the opportunity to watch and listen to Professor Khalidi once on a television news/commentary program; he did an excellent job standing up to Daniel Pipes’ stand-in whose name I can’t recall right this minute. People like Khalidi and Juan Cole do get some media time, but far from enough to counterbalance the over-exposure of the likes of Danielle Pletka, Richard Perle, and Dick Cheney.
The matter of history and the ignorance thereof is endemic to American reporting, however, and can’t be changed by having spokespersons of the various ‘sides’ get equal coverage. The reporters themselves must begin to be capable of questioning what they are told, hear, and see.
A very good example can be found in the recent coverage of the assault on Fallujah. Most reporters simply repeated what they were told about the number of civilians remaining in the city prior to the attack’s start. One reporter stated that 80-90% of the civilians had left the city, that the US military thought there were 2600 insurgents left in the city, that all males between 15-50 were not being allowed either to leave or enter the city. Nowhere did the reporter state the actual population size of the city. But if that reporter had done so, perhaps he/she would have become puzzled by the various discrepancies between the statements she/he so dutifully reported. It is not possible that the city contained only 10-20% of its population, if all males between 15-50 were not being allowed to leave/enter. There was no way of knowing these percentages AT ALL, yet the reporter allowed them to be repeated as though there were some sort of validity in them.
When the media allow themselves to be unquestioning conduits for such clearly manipulated statistics, they are underwriting propaganda rather than reporting. For a number of unclear reasons, the American media seem unable to question the state’s positions and the military’s statements without making obeisance.
I think the only reporters consistently showing they have guts are Landay and Strobel from KR.
Posted by aunt deb on Nov 16, 2004 at 11:36 AM Never forget that the ignorant won the election fair and square. They have prevailed despite your intelligent protests. Words are useless against these beasts - their brains are too dim, their skins too thick
We will be more effective if we subvert their evil, idiotic goals by action not words. Avoid paying income tax, reject consumerism in favor of simple living, refuse to publically pledge “alegiance” to a depraved government, quit militant church congregations; these are some of the ways an individual can contribute to the the only really necessary war.
Posted by richard vajs on Nov 16, 2004 at 12:37 PM Look the point of all this goes to show us all that the new world order’s plans have been going on for 1000’s of years, just look at your one dollar bill, there they are at the top of the pyramid, the big eyeball in the sky, the only thing thats going to stop this is not getting rid of the puppets like bush, kerry, blair,AND CO it’s a WHACKING BIG EXTERMINATING ROCK TO HIT US SQUARE IN THE MUSH!!!!!END OF STORY.
Posted by CARY G DEAN on Nov 16, 2004 at 12:40 PM ..and interesting fact I learned from John Keay’s “Sowing the Wind” on the Middle East from 1900-1960. When the British occupied Iraq in the 1920’s and encountered armed resistance they searched around for a term to call the “enemy” so as to avoid the term freedom fighters. The Britsh decided on the term “insurgents”
Posted by Alistair Clayton on Nov 16, 2004 at 2:46 PM As mentioned in the article, the American media does not show the true chaos occurring in Iraq. Can anyone suggest an honest, non-American media source to turn to?
Posted by Sarah on Nov 16, 2004 at 2:50 PM The personal info you give in me is out of date.
Updated bio follows for web version of article:Rashid Khalidi is the Edward Said Professor of Arab Studies in the Department of History and Director of the Middle East Institute at Columbia University. He received his B.A. from Yale University in 1970, and his D.Phil. from Oxford University in 1974. He has taught at the Lebanese University, the American University of Beirut, Georgetown University. He thereafter taught at the University of Chicago for 16 years. He is past President of the Middle East Studies Association, and was an advisor to the Palestinian delegation to the Madrid and Washington Arab-Israeli peace negotiations from October 1991 until June 1993. He is Vice-President of the American Task Force on Palestine, and editor of the Journal of Palestine Studies.
Khalidi is the author of Resurrecting Empire: Western Footprints and America’s Perilous Path in the Middle East (2004), which has been translated into French, Italian and Spanish; Palestinian Identity: The Construction of Modern National Consciousness (1997), co-winner of the Middle East Studies Association’s Albert Hourani Prize as best book of 1997, and which has been translated into French and Italian; Under Siege: PLO Decision-making during the 1982 War (1986); and British Policy towards Syria and Palestine, 1906-1914 (1980); and is co-editor of Palestine and the Gulf (1982) and The Origins of Arab Nationalism (1991). He has written over seventy-five articles on aspects of Middle Eastern history.
Posted by r. khalidi on Nov 16, 2004 at 3:06 PM History is written by the victors, and damned if the Americans are going to let it be written in Arabic.
When a person fails to learn from their own mistakes, and the mistakes of others, that person is doomed to repeat them, given enough time and opportunity. This much is probably obvious to most of you who have appreciated Rashid Khalidi’s excellent article (and the attached T.E. Lawrence London Times excerpt from 1920), and have posted comments and follow-ups. However, this lesson does not seem to register with the U.S. administration and its top military commanders who behave as though they can conquer the mistakes of the past rather than learn from them, like an overconfident student of martial arts who believes he can defeat his opponents without the benefit of his master’s teachings. Right now, in Fallujah, the U.S. government is taking one step forward, two steps back, as it has been doing everywhere since day one of the invasion. America’s reign of terror over Iraq is creating masses of opposition within that country and throughout the world, and the execution of the Fallujah offensive is hastening a chain-reaction created by the initial invasion that will spread throughout the country, turning every major city into a bloody tug-of-war, and making civilians pay the price, along with self-immolating resistance fighters, and U.S. grunts that seem to be regarded by their Commander-In-Chief as expendable.
The horrors of this war, its unjust reason for being, and the inexcusable and criminal actions of both the U.S. government and its military-industrial complex have created a terrorized but increasingly galvanized Iraqi population who express their resistance with actions, not words, as words have fallen on the deaf or muffled ears of the foreign conquerors who call themselves champions of liberation and democracy, but whose actions blatantly defy the Geneva Convention - a crucial piece of international law and designed to be a bastion of human rights in wartime - on a daily basis. Every time the U.S. and its minions flatten civilian targets (and they must BE targets - I thought the missiles were precision-guided…), accept collateral damage and say they don’t do body counts, or cut off water and electricity to civilians, or block medical aid convoys (most recently the Red Crescent convoy trying to enter Fallujah), or shut down hospitals while reactivating prisons, they expand the ever-growing mass of violent, diehard resistance, and lose international credibility (an ever-dwindling commodity that the U.S. has nearly expended). Nevertheless, America continues to blindly or wilfully follow in “the footsteps of the old Western colonial powers.” [Khalidi]
The U.S. government believes pulling out of Iraq is a step backward. They fail to appreciate a simple, beautiful logic: “A step backward, after making a wrong turn, is a step in the right direction.” [from “Player Piano”, by Kurt Vonnegut]
The U.S. will not do the right thing until at some future time a real democratic government gains power in America and has the courage and humility to say to the people of Iraq (and the rest of the Middle East) “We were wrong, we are sorry, we deserve no forgiveness, and we are leaving, forever, until a time comes when we are worthy of your respect. Your destiny belongs to you.” And then actually do it. And maybe even learn something, for the record.
But don’t hold your breath.
I welcome your comments and your criticism.
P.S. To Americans dissatisfied with your country: it takes a year to get through the Canadian immigration process, but it’s worth it, you’ll like the place. I got lucky and was born here.
Posted by Noel on Nov 16, 2004 at 5:07 PM What would George say about Iraq? I am talking about a George who TRULY loved liberty and freedom and fought an imperial power to win them. I am talking about a George who warned his new country to avoid foreign entanglements and large permanent military institutions. I am not talking about our “boy emperor” as Chalmers Johnson calls George W. but our founding father George Washington! What would he say? I think he would weep at the behavior of his beloved republic…as do I.
Posted by Kurt Dunbar on Nov 16, 2004 at 6:10 PM Brilliant analysis.
All of the historical info about Fullujah was extremely valueable.
Thank you!
I would like to recommend for further reading, two books which offer additional historical detail about U.S. clandestined involvement in the Middle East-
“Ropes of Sand” by Wilbert Crane Eveland (unfortunately out of print). Eveland was a CIA agent in the late 40’s, early 50’s involved dierctly with the attempted overthrow of the Syrian and Lebanese governments (I beleive that he was the bag man for at least one of those operations), and knew all of the principals involved in Operation Ajax, the CIA’s successful overthrow of Mossadegh in Iran in 1953.
“All The Shah’s Men” by Stephen Kinzer (John Wiley and Sons) A detailed historical account of Iran and its politics, the first discovery of oil there by George Reynolds in 1908, and the abusive policies practiced by the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company- the British Company that “administered” the Iranian oil industry until the industry was nationalized by Mossadegh.
An interesting little known fact (little known in the U.S., I’ll bet people in Iran know about it)-
The U.S. General responsible for training the
Iranian police force during WWII, and the man who also served as a “bag man” for the CIA during the Coup…was H. Norman Schwarzkopf Sr…
Desert Storm Commander H. Norman Schwarzkopf Jr.‘s FATHER! Schwarzkopf Sr. was also involved in the investigation of the Lindbergh kidnapping (he was a policeman in civilain life) and was the voice of the radio serial “Gangbusters”.
A bit TOO bizarre, yes!? it truly is “ALL IN THE FAMILY”.
Posted by Mike Freas on Nov 16, 2004 at 6:20 PM There are so many problems, religion and greed chief among them, but that’s already been said. As a member of academia, I want to add that Yale U added to the problem when it gave a degree to a rich party boy who had absolutely no intellectual curiosity, and thereby credentialed him as a likely member of the ruling class.
George W Bush does NOT know Mideastern history, nor does he know any history upon which to base a decision, nor is he even mildly curious about history, and Yale should be humiliated to have foisted this ignoramus upon an unsuspecting public. Clearly a Yale degree means nothing and Yale should close itself down in shame and horror.
To have a look at his disgraceful Yale transcript, go to : http://www.iuptown.com/YaleProtest/bushs_yale_transcript.htm
He wouldn’t be admissable to a graduate History program! Or any other grad program!
Posted by Barbara on Nov 16, 2004 at 6:35 PM [you have true faith insha’allah the promissed of allah is paradise not for kristian nor jews but for muslim faithful… Victory or Martyrdom !]<<<<<<
“I must say that you are as much of the problem as neocons in washington.”Amen.
Any truly spiritual person, atheist or not, knows the end is near.
what form?
Whether it is Armageddon, the Mayian or Hopi endtimes, the end times prophesy in the Koran, now predicted for 2011 by a cleric in Ramullah, or the financial and environmental collapse predicted by Chalmers Johnson and Kirkpatrick Sale, academics and intellectuals, it is happening as we speak. the signs of the times are clear, and to those paying attention, nearly deafening.
I hope you all have taken good care of your relationships, for you will need them.
Posted by femalespirit on Nov 16, 2004 at 6:41 PM The Kahlidi article is one of several I have read which have pointed out the historical fallacy of American actions. Ignoring history is one of the things the Bush group does best. Note Imperial Hubris by Michael Schueur and the quickly evolving ousters in the CIA; the delusion of ‘making history’ overtakes the informed consensus of those well aware of the consequences who must be excluded.
I appreciate Mr. Khalidi taking the time to voice his knowledge and hope he does so in many forums. Knowledge should never take a holiday; history doesn’t.
I’m from a Red state. Be aware that the vote in those states wasn’t 100%. An Electorial College map represents the winner-take-all approach (except for one state) when in fact the votes are spread all over. The point is that there are willing and understanding minds everywhere, so don’t fall into easy and almost ‘fundamentalist’ statements. It’s popular - but inaccurate, too.
The rise of U.S. Fundamentalism has been a campaign which started over 100 years ago. For further information see Grant Wacker’s summary of 20th century development in the National Humanities Center’s homepage (bottom link) and you will clearly understand how the objectives of that movement seque into the results and policies of the present administration. I must emphasize this is not a recent development but has been pushed on several fronts. Many of the posts here are directly related to that conflict in ways which may surprise the informed reader.
I must point out that the governement does own the voting machines; however, wrt software, that is a conditional ownership which is dangerous. And second, a concession is not legally valid; that is, the votes must be counted, canvassed and accepted formally; that is an on-going process still alive. That doesn’t mean the result will change. However, it does point out that the Bush administration has an increasing load of liabilities and risks in many, many areas of this government’s actions, home and abroad. At some point there will be a momentum breaker. Big Mo rarely stays in one place long.
The US is now in a diminishing information environment, one more tightly controlled than anytime in the last century. Share your net information, which isn’t constrained, with those who don’t have access.
American Fundamentalism is the easiest attack; it is an antiquated description of the world and contains massive connundrums and dilemmas. The movement itself is based on fear and ‘belief’ as identity, both dangerous but quite vulnerable.
And the final irony is that those who espouse actions in foreign lands are precisely those who don’t believe in the basic tenets of democracy.
Those who think Manifest Destiny was a 19th century phenomena should turn around and see the shadow of the past projecting into the future.
Posted by walkhills on Nov 16, 2004 at 6:59 PM Here is one American, formerly a nationalist, who is in solidarity with the people of Iraq.
I pray that they will throw off the oppressors—the Army, Marines, Air Force, and Navy .
I know pray that God will not allow the aggressors to benefit from their aggression: no bases, no oil ownership, and no special access to contracts.
I pray that the defeat of US forces in Iraq will teach a lesson the USA will not soon forget.
Posted by Anglo-American on Nov 16, 2004 at 8:19 PM i think it was an excellent article. but i think it’s a history lesson for all of the world. being married to an iraqi i’m sure i’m one of the few americans that actually have an idea about the history of falluja and i’m pretty sure that there are many arabs who have no clue about it either. the problem is as another indivisual mentioned, they just don’t care. the average american is more concerned about mortgages, car payments and providing their children with a lot of things they don’t need or deserve and quite simply living beyond their means.
Posted by amal on Nov 16, 2004 at 8:29 PM Thanks for an enlightening article. The American people are woefully ignorant of history - even their own history. This means they end up making the same mistakes over and over again.
Most think that the so-called “war on terrorism” started after September 11, 2001. When, in fact, Ronald Reagan declared war on terror in a different hemisphere in 1980 when he took office. He used that declaration to secretly arm the Contras in Nicaragua and right-wing death squads in El Salvador. In other words, Reagan used the same justification (terror) to slaughter thousands of innocents in Central America then and Bush is using terror to slaughter thousands of innocents in Iraq. Because Americans are so historically illiterate, they don’t question Bush’s motives or point out the foolishness of trying to kill your way to peace.
One deep moral lesson that everyone seems to be missing after 9-11 is that when the U.S. tried to kill one enemy (the Soviet Union) by arming and training the mujahadeen in Afghanistan and Pakistan, we created a new enemy, who will likely cause us as much or more grief as the Soviets!
When will we ever learn????
Posted by Stephen Kriz on Nov 16, 2004 at 9:18 PM I feel the biggest danger to the world is fundamentalism wherever in the world it may be. Driving down in the so called Red state I saw a sign “God blessed America” after the elections. Clearly the god fearing christians see Bush as their saviour and that is alarming, since he is responsible for so many iraqi deaths that it is despicable.
The gloomy part is their seems to be no solution right now, as there are no voice of reason which is governing US. It is so hypocritical that people who themselves ditched the goverment on military duty are proposing war all over the world(not just Bush, even Chenny ducked the milatary draft). Someone who never saw real suffering is making millions suffer, and what is worse after 4 more years he will never be told to explain his reasons.
Maybe he should be tried in a military court by the iraqi families after the war. But that part is covered by Bush himself because he refused to sign the international treaty for justice. What is worse is that most people have not seen the terror of war and the sound of gun, so they think it is collatral damage, but the fog of war is such that it always turns its ugly turn both ways sooner or later.
If anyone has any doubts about how many terrorist he is responsible for nurturing, just imagine if you or a close family member is a victim of a wrongful death. Would’nt you be mad at hell to do the same to the responsible person. Now multiply it by 100,000 and imagine the number of terrorist coming into the world.
Remember how much you moan about the set of young teenagers when they die in a freak car accident and ask what will you tell those mothers whose kids were killed in a freak incident of indifferent bombing from suicide bombers or trans atlantic missle launchers. What will you tell them, that it is a case of bad luck or your kids were just collateral damage. When death becomes a number, it can make people become really insensitive.
To connect to the world is to feel that this comfortable life that you have taken for granted is at the point being destroyed by the ruling US goverment. So americans need to be really selective(if they could) in choosing reponsible leaders, else they are running the risk of paying the price for their goverment mistakes. The media seems to have been already sold so the real hope is the people who can make a difference. How keen are they is a very big question, because to find the real truth you have to get out of your TV sets and do some fact finding, which definately did not happen in this election.
War is always bad for everyone no matter which side you are, and the people who pay the price are always the common people, who are generally peaceful. The way out is really foggy, but we can start small by stop being judgemental to people who does not fall into our spectrum of normalcy.
The bigger problem then war is non-acceptance and that is where it all goes wrong. So accept that the world is multicultural, multi-racial and as REM says so beautifully “Everbody hurts sometimes”. Stop using the word hate in your vocabulary and see how it slowly changes your daily lives. It is a cynical world, but together we can make the difference by stopping hate when it rings our doorbell. Cheers.
Posted by Puneet on Nov 16, 2004 at 9:53 PM I fully agree with the text. I also belong that generation who witnessed the liberation of Arab countries from British (Egypt) and French domination (Algeria, Syria, Lebanon etc) I also witnessed the liberation of African and Asian peoples from European colonial domination. I see no difference between American actions in Iraq from those perpetrated by the Western colonial powers It is a new type of colonialism revisited under false ideas of
democracy. As a christian and as an Armenian I support the Iraqi resistance against American occupation forces until they are ousted!
May God be with Iraqi fresistance and punish severely the American invaders!
Posted by Armenianpatriot on Nov 16, 2004 at 10:56 PM The first step is simple everybody.
DON’T HATE.
yes, don’t hate. many of you have good points, but your hate is transparent. it spreads. it wins.
LOVE, PITY, COMPASSION, EDUCATE, ACT, INFORM, EXAMPLE, TEACH, SHOW, DISCOVER, TRY,
This is what will save us all.
Be a shining example of optimism, acceptance, and personal strength and power.
This is what will win.
This is the truth that will shine in any smug self-righteous darkness.
PLEASE! I’m begging all of you who read this! Use your power!
Posted by pablo on Nov 16, 2004 at 11:44 PM The German Writer Norter Damus predicted World War III to start in the Middle East in 1987.
He was out by at least 20 years.
But, don’t worry. Mr. Bush is trying his best to catch up, even though his father got cold feet in 1991.
Posted by Sam on Nov 17, 2004 at 12:31 AM I would like to remind the persons who posted anti-Christian or anti-Jewish remarks that Zionism is itself a profoundly anti-Jewish movement and that Bush’s invasion of Iraq is resulting in the biggest blow to Iraq’s ancient Christian communities in history.
Remember, the Zionists cooperated fully with the Nazis until about 1938 and even afterwards to some degree. Adolf Eichmann, who was tried and executed in Israel in the 1960s after a farcical show trial, had been in charge of coordinating with the Zionists on Jewish emigration from Nazi-occupied Europe to Palestine.Zionist operatives in the US and Britain influenced those governments not to relax their low limits on Jewish immigration before during and after the waqr in order to force the Jews who were fleeing Hitler to either return to Europe or go to Palestine.
Zionism made it nearly impossible for the Arab Jewish community to thrive, not only through the angry Arab reaction to the Zionist theft of Palestine, but also through direct acts of Zionist terrorism and subversion directed against the Jews of Yemen, Iraq, Syria, Egypt and Morocco.
From early in the Zionist movement’s history its more radical thinkers regarded as Zionism’s most dangerous rival the secular Arab nationalist movement which had been founded in the 19th century by Christian, Druze and Sunni intellectuals in Beirut and Damascus, was continued in the Arab Revolt of 1914-1920, and was revived in Damascus and Cairo in later decades following the neo-colonialist suppression.This movement was and is a danger to the Zionist project precisely because it is secular, non-sectarian and modern.Zionists prefer their enemies to be narrow and intolerant.Don’t become what they want you to be!
Secular Arab parties and leaders have been targeted and brought down repeatedly by the Zionists and their western allies through wars, rebellions, sanctions, embargos and assasinations, I need only mention the many campaigns against Gamel Abdel Nasser, against Syria, against Iraq, the assassinations of the Moroccan Ben Barka and the only secularist Saudi King, Feisal, to illustrate this.
Illustrations of Western and Israeli support for the most reactionary forces in the Arab world are equally abundant:
Who made Hajj Amin al-Husseini the mufti of Jerusalem to undercut the Muslim-Christian Association? Herbert Samuel, the Zionist High Commissioner for Palestine.
Who promoted Hamas in the West Bank and Gaza in the 1980s to undercut the Palestinian student movement? Israel’s government.
Who sold Khomeini, Khameini and Rafsanjani the arms they needed to prosecute their war in Iraq for 8 long years? Israel, Thatcher and Reagan.
Who gave Osama Bin Laden his start as a mujahid? The CIA.
Who supported the Ikhwan rebellion in Syria in the late 70s-early 80s? Also the CIA.
Where was Abu Musab al-Zarqawi’s base in Iraq before the invasion? With “our Kurdish allies” under the US umbrella beside the Iranian border.
What is the only country which admits that it is holding Al-Qaeda members, which admits that it lets Al-Qaeda members pass freely through its borders but refuses to turn them over to the US, and does this with impunity?The Islamic “Republic” of Iran.
Who has gained from the disastrous and erroneous US invasion of Iraq? Shi-ite separatists, Kurdish separatists, and perhaps eventually, the surviving Wahabi separatists.
And who has lost? Secular Arab nationalism.
Who was too dumb to anticipate this result? Bush. Who is not so dumb? Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, Perle and Co.
Who needed a “new Pearl Harbor”?
Posted by Last leftist in Zell-land on Nov 17, 2004 at 12:38 AM Even before it began, I figured the war with Iraq was planned and fought for only two reasons. The first and foremost being the removal of an economic and military threat to the state of Isreal. The second, being to secure for the western world (including Israel) the vast oil reserves in Iraq. To date, not one thing has occurred to change this opinion. I suspect, however that the US and Britian may have bit off more than they can chew. Before its over, this war could easily result in the collapse of the US economy, along with what is left of the British economy. If this occurs, it will of course lead to the immediate end of Israel, which cannot survive without the massive aid from US taxpayers and Britain subjects. Since all problems have a natural tendency to correct themselves, the demise of Isreal would in this case remove the cause for this conflict as well as many of the other troubles throughout the entire world. That being the case, this war could eventually force average Americans to come to the realization of which group of people have historically been behind most of the past troubles thoughout the civilized world, and which group is behind the current ones. As has happened with other nations and people in the past, if this takes place in this country, a long period of world peace and real properity would likely follow.
Posted by carroll price on Nov 17, 2004 at 2:53 AM re: carroll price
Priceless.
I love your optimism.
And your words beg the question: Can Israel really stand alone?
You, like so many others, presume not.
Posted by walkhills on Nov 17, 2004 at 4:01 AM Another neglected aspect of Falluja history is that the US Veterans for Peace (VFP), of which I am a proud member, have for the last ten years - beginning in the 1990s - labored to help the people of Falluja restore and rebuild their water treatment system. So far the reconstruction work has been destroyed twice over by the US military. But ultimately, I believe, the builders will prevail over the destroyers.
BTW, I’m off this weekend for the demonstration at the “School of the Americas” at Ft. Benning, GA. Hope to see you there . . .
AJ Oliver
Posted by AJ Oliver on Nov 17, 2004 at 6:04 AM One generation ago the peoples of the world asked themselves: Where were the “good” Germans? - Today the peoples of the world are likewise asking themselves: Where are the “good” Americans?
SEEMS THERE ARE NOT MANY BY THE POSTS READ.
The following Quote is from a real Sh!t head Jew,that writes for Sharrons zionist cause.I recall reading,when young,in Nazi germany ,the Jews had to wear the star of David on their sleeves. The mess these goons have caused,is time we do the same. Sorry folks but they have ruin America. NOTICE-I DO NOT HATE ALL JEWS—JUST THE ONES IN Sharron’s ISRAEL AND IN BUSH,S WASHINGTON
*********************************************
Quote
“In a better world, the PLO chief would have met his end on a gallows, hanged for mass murder much as the Nazi chiefs were hanged at Nuremberg. ... In a better world, George Bush would not have said, on hearing the first reports that Arafat had died, ‘God bless his soul.’“God bless his soul? What a grotesque idea! ... God, I am quite sure, will damn him for eternity.”
So writes Jeff Jacoby of the Boston Globe. And we are surely fortunate to have columnists who know the mind of God
Posted by george on Nov 17, 2004 at 1:01 PM Good and enlightening social analysis, i.e. reading the signs of the times involves simplicity: simple truths, simple reasoning [as does wisdom]:
Who benefits? who pays the price?much of that displayed here, thank God.
the next step is to be courageous enough to take the enlightenment to the logical conclusion, given all things remain the same…as in the Old Testament type of prophets, who were villified in their time, but proved prescient.
the end is near, in some form or other.
as a US citizen, i prefer it be in the main with us, for we will be better off in the long run, and purged of so much sickness and moral bankrupcy, and ability to cause harm. i am counting on the world forgiving us, eventually.
as Mother Teresa said, “we are called not to be successful, but to remain faithful”
in a world of so much atrocity that calls itself morality, remaining faithful to a deep moral vision, is, at best, an uphill battle [it’s QUITE EASY TO BE FULL OF HATRED AND BLAME]...
but worth every second of soul wrentching doubt, for morality will prevail.thanks to all for your time, attention and clear sightenness. you know who you are.
Posted by femalespirit on Nov 17, 2004 at 1:57 PM So where are there any references to the scandalous “Oil for food” ripoffs by Saadam-up to $20 Billion
which were meant to go to his people. Looks like the UN isn’t in too big a hurry to investigate there own
part in this fiasco. I haven’t heard of any more new mass graves being dug since Saadam has been in jail.
The US certainly has not made the best decisions on Iraq-but we’re there now and need to stay thru the elections.
Posted by John on Nov 17, 2004 at 2:35 PM jONNY—RECALL THAT CLINTON PARDONE—I forgot his name but he was Jewish and was the middleman selling Iraq oil to america.This was done during embargo USA had on Iraq. This guy made over a $billion profit.he would have receive 20 years in Jail.Seems his x-wife was Hillory’s best freind.
You talk about UN.This was formed back in 1948 for the main reason to create Israel on Palestinian lands. Has anyone questioned, why the UN has not declared war on USA or Britin or Israel,in the killings in the Middle-east.? Hello no! Cause they are the bosses.
Seems the whole world is stupid in depending on U.N. Recall when Condo rice authorized wire tapping on UN ambassadors——-nothing,the asshole black Annan did. SHAME! U.N.=U.S.A.
Why is KOfi ANNAN-still in power?-must be Condo’s relative!
Posted by george on Nov 17, 2004 at 4:26 PM Don’t forget the 500 years prior to this, ending in 1918, where the Iraqis were successfully dominated by the Ottoman Turks for centuries. Iraq is hardly unconquerable, although it doesn’t respond favorably to benevolent masters like the British. Historically, however, Iraqis have been supplicants in the face of brutal strength. There’s a lesson to be learned in this.
In any case, we’re only talking about the Sunnis, not the Shiites (despite the Najaf incident), and certainly not the pro-American Kurds. It is these Wahabi jihadists who are our enemy. Further, there does not exist a true “nation” of Iraq. There is rather a polyglot political entity composed of eastern Persia, western Syria, and southern Kurdistan. The Sunni population within these boundaries is a minority that is subject to military defeat and will never be dominant again in Iraq, regardless of America’s involvement. Besides, we’re not 1920’s Britain. Technology has greatly multiplied the effectiveness and efficiency with which military power can be utilized, even in the face of a guerilla insurgency.
Posted by Bill the NeoCon on Nov 17, 2004 at 7:02 PM This article by Rashid Khalidi was most insightful and does go a long way to explaining the historical context of this situation.
Thank you Mr. Khalidi for helping me to think.No reasoning man can blame Arabs for distrusting the West. That being said, blaming the West at some point has to end. The truth of the matter is that “Muslim countries” are full of corruption, poverty, conflict, instability, and social unrest…. not primarily because of the CIA, but primarily because their irrational dedication to mysticism—i.e. religion. This is because Islam is a “fundamentalist” religion almost by definition, as I don’t think I’ve ever met a “moderate” Muslim.
Unfortunately, Allah, Jesus, Mohammed, Abraham, etc, are unworthy ideals to base a civilization upon. This is as true in the United States as it so obviously is in the Middle east. The difference of course is that in the US religion is still “fire-walled” off from civic affairs—at least for the time being…. but give the “fundamentalists” a chance and we’ll soon have the “Muslim” flavor of Christianity here as well.
What is a worthy ideal to base a civilization upon is REASON. The mind of natural man is more magnificent than the mind of any imaginary God, and in this sense, we do best when guided by the reasoning of our own self-interest that by some concept of Allah, Yahweh, and/or Jesus forced upon us.
The irony is that despite their spoken hatred of each other, the Muslim, Christian, and Jew are essentially the same animal—all prefer the mystic to the rational.
Posted by EconMan on Nov 17, 2004 at 8:05 PM Thanks, caroline, for your hogwash. i love it when radical lefties spew their bs…...they always love to share their “enlightened” views, but then either refuse to follow through on them by living blindly in an “ivory tower” or by abandoning the united states to leave the political struggle to those with enough courage to undertake it.
there certainly is a lot wrong with American foreign policy, as prof. khalidi’s article so finely pointed out. bemoaning the united states in an hopeless manner while not living in the united states is a rather pathetic manner in which to create a better world for americans, american ex-pats, europe, and the rest of the world.
Americans are good…....many of our public institutions are not quite so good (corrupt/disengenous/etc are also fair characteristics). work with the people instead of whining!
Posted by aaron on Nov 17, 2004 at 8:18 PM Maybe this comes under the hopeless bemoaning category, but is nevertheless both true and significant to our present:
The fugitive Jewish American financier Clinton pardoned that George had in mind is named Marc Rich.He had been convicted of being a middle man in the trafficking of black market Iranian oil in the 1980s.This was part of Israel’s oil for weapons deal with the mullahs.According to Ari Ben Menashe and Victor Ostrovsky, ex-Israeli intelligence officers, Iran sold oil to Israeli middlemen for as low as $5 per bbl.Iran in turn bought military eqpmt from arms dealers connected with the Israeli-US-British network for 5 times and more their real worth.Ben Menashe said the total exchange of that traffic was over $80 BILLION.
There are several remarkable coincidences between Marc Rich and another Jewish American fugitive who was pardoned by Clinton at the same time, Adolph “Al” Schwimmer.Clinton pardoned Schwimmer for crimes he had committed while smuggling arms to the Zionists in Palestine in the 1940s.Schwimmer’s main base then was in Czechoslovakia, and what really angered the Truman administration more than the illegal trafficking itself was the fact that some of Schwimmer’s illegally obtained US weapons were turned over to the Communists for analysis.
After Israel became a State, Schwimmer became an Israeli citizen and formed Israel Aircraft Industries, the largest weapons corporation in Israel.Despite being a convicted felon and traitor, he travelled secretly to the US many times, and apparently few in the US military-industrial complex shunned him.
In the 1980s he was one of the main kingpins in the arms traffic to Iran.In 1988 the Iranian journalist Amir Taheri revealed that in the Victoria district of London Schwimmer operated an arms procurement operation along with his partners David Kimche, the British born Israeli diplomat and longtime intelligence operative, and Yaacov Nimrodi, the former Iranian Jew who had been Israel’s main operative in the court of the Shah for many years.It was from this office that the huge Iran arms and illegal oil traffic was directed from 1981-1987, including the activities of Marc Rich.
There is another knot of connections between Schwimmer and Rich, as well.Before becoming a Zionist arms procurer in the 1940s, Schwimmer had been a shady American business man with connections to Mafia figures including Miki Cohen and Meyer Lansky, as well as Hank Greenspun, who was the most important “legitimate” front man and ‘fixer’ for the Mafia takeover of Las Vegas.All of the men mentioned participated in the 1940s Zionist arms netweork, as well as in the European crime network which the Mossad organized in the Zionist-dominated temporary refugee camps of postwar Europe.Hank’s son, Brian, was a major Clinton supporter and one of the main advocates for the Marc Rich pardon.
Posted by Last leftist in Zell-land on Nov 17, 2004 at 10:57 PM LL in Zell-land
That’s a hell of a piece of information, worthy of the late Jonathon Kwitney.
The backside of Mr. Khalidi’s history is the underside of the iceberg of information concerning the deals and manipulations within the oil business, black market and intelligence manuevering. Only that will throw into relief the multiple dynamics of what has gone on and is doubtlessly still occurring in some fashion.Contrary to Economan, I do think that the continuing support by the West (not just us) of dictatorships and kletocracies in the Middle Eastern countris have as much, if not more, to do with the corruption and poverty in those places. Traditionally, religion bolsters and ‘validates’ those regimes while offering hope and redemption to the vast majority. I’m sure there are moderate Muslims, but I’m just as sure they have no real power base to seize any measure of control. If the validation function of religion starts to fail, then it will facilitate the opposition. Institutions strive to survive just like people when threatened, they take any action necessary.
According to Michael Schueur in Imperial Hubris and some other sources, this middle is exactly who Osama bin Laden speaks to publically despite being the head of an extreme part of the Muslim religion.
The American Fundamentalist here are also making a power grab for the middle.
I suspect that both are the pawns of other powers. Here, it is the global corporate complex, who goals are almost opposite those of the Fundamentalist right. Over there I don’t know; with so much unseen information and almost unknowable dynamics, who would know?If we want to win this we must see this multi-layer history and those internal dynamics clearly. I fear we don’t.
And Economan, I do agree wrt to Reason. We’re actually dealing with two archaic descriptions of the modern world who implicitly understand the clock doesn’t turn backwards. That’s the deep source of their fear and desperation. Their institutions are dying and that can’t or won’t compromise. They are trapped animals and extremely dangerous. They’ve gone all in with a losing hand.
This is not to say there is not wisdom in religious knowledge, but there is not a basic pragmatic foundation for a modern state, much less a democracy. Even reason must be tempered; it is a guide, but without an emotional base, it will turn into a guardian, too. A mature political model includes all those elements of the human psyche without exclusion but with control of the most dangerous. We’re still a long ways from that as far as I can see.
Posted by walkhills on Nov 18, 2004 at 1:31 AM Kind of interesting that the author doesnt notice that the occupation ended last June.
Kind of interesting that the author doesnt notice that the reasons for the invasion of Iraq WERE justified.
1. Iraq had not met the requirements of the cease fire agreement from the first Gulf War.
2. Iraq was in violation of UN Sanctions, and had not demonstrated its divestment of WMD programs.
3. Iraq was a supporter and major player in international terrorism. Iraq had links with Al Queda, but has not been proved to have OPERATIONAL links with the 9/11 atrocity. It did have operational links with the first bombing of the WTC.So, Fallujah had nothing to do with the murder of noncombatants in an aid convoy. News to me. Mrs Hassan was murdered by the terrorists there. What nice friends you have Utne!
Posted by DonMeaker on Nov 18, 2004 at 3:04 AM Yes, Isreal can stand alone.. Why you ask.. Easy the US has already given not loaned enough military equipment to outfit their entire army 2 times over, at the age of 18 your REQUIRED to join the military for 2 years minimum.. I think the United States has it good.. We just need to focus on ourselves and not the whole fuckin world…
1 last thing about Religion…
Religion is a Tool no matter where you look at it.. It’s a Means to an end.. or better yet said a Justification to do something you wouldn’t normally do if you were not a fanatic of your particular faith, Christian, Muslim, and Judism have all done something bad, but typically it’s the Christian faith that gets misused more often then it promotes peace, Crusades, Nazi Germany and Martin Luther (Lutherian church otherwise Protestant)... that concludes this
Mythic
Posted by Mythic on Nov 18, 2004 at 6:42 AM “These long cerebral articles are not read by the lowbrows, whom unfortunately, are the bulk of the Red states.
other than that- excellent article
Posted by John “Translation: John doesn’t understand a word of the article, and didn’t read it, but would still like to comment by bashing people he’s never met.
How about a comment on the content, John? Go back and read it first, then reply.
Posted by Emmet on Nov 18, 2004 at 1:07 PM “The first step is simple everybody.
DON’T HATE.
yes, don’t hate. many of you have good points, but your hate is transparent. it spreads. it wins.
LOVE, PITY, COMPASSION, EDUCATE, ACT, INFORM, EXAMPLE, TEACH, SHOW, DISCOVER, TRY,
This is what will save us all.
Be a shining example of optimism, acceptance, and personal strength and power.
This is what will win.
This is the truth that will shine in any smug self-righteous darkness”
It’s pretty easy to talk about love when you’re sitting comfortably in some place far away shielded from death and destruction.You have no idea what it feels like when bombs and missiles are exploding all around you killing your family,friends and the shrieks of tortured souls makes you loose your mind.
How can anyone in the above situation not think about hating those who did this to them?
Another point raised by aaron - who sez ‘we’ hate the american people? The only thing ‘we’ hate is the american government and it’s seriously flawed foreign policy. There’s absolutely no justice.
Posted by tortured soul on Nov 18, 2004 at 8:47 PM What a great T.E. Lawrence quote! Was he really in Fallujah? I hope it’s not an urban legend.
Posted by Bill on Nov 18, 2004 at 9:33 PM Iraq now belongs to the Sons of David. Before long the world will submit to the authority of Zion. The sons of Edom (Arabs) will bleed and their wives will serve Israel. There is no salvation for Esau.
Posted by Kaz Goldstien on Nov 18, 2004 at 9:45 PM Muslims want religious war - let them have it. Islam is a false religion, illegitimate ideas of forced conversion on pain of death, mistreatment of women and the weak, animalistic vengefulness and hate. Muslims want death - give them what they want, in massive quantities. Invite them to the gates of eternity in Fallujah, where they can line up for the gift of high speed projectiles. It’s a win-win.
Posted by Rick LaBonte on Nov 18, 2004 at 11:05 PM READ & COPY the following—- Then no Jew can lie to you.I hope some of you can post and share this important article.
http://www.awtechnologies.com/palestine/timeline/timeline.html
Posted by george on Nov 18, 2004 at 11:17 PM Sorry folks—copy key was pressed wrong—-Site is—http://www.awtechnologies.com/palestine/timeline/timeline.html
Posted by george on Nov 18, 2004 at 11:22 PM Salam Alaykom Rasheed
We need in this country a powerfull and active voice like the late Edward Said.We need frolm you to be more write more and more like Said. May Alah give you a long life to teach our nation historic lesson.
SAlam Alaykom
kassem khalil, M.D.
San Diego, CA
Posted by kassem khalil, M.D on Nov 19, 2004 at 3:31 AM This is a great cross section of postings. Thank You Rashid Khalidi for your inciteful article
Posted by Keith on Nov 19, 2004 at 6:01 PM Hope the author - and folks (at ITT in particular) who are fans of his piece - notice the range of islamist sentiment and straight up intolerance it “inspired.” Mebbe you’ll have an “oh shit!” moment of clarity. Like, say, J. Fischer had back in the 70’s when he realized the PLO were regularly doubling up on their demos in Germany. One for the (new) left. One for neo-nazis…What the hey - I’d be the FIRST to acknowledge that it’s uncomfortable to share ANY positions with Wolfie or Rummy or W. And God knows (like Fischer)you can argue forcefully against their way of pursuing “the war on terror.” But aren’t you living a lie if you go on pretending to yourself you have less in common with them than with murderous Wahabites who explicitly define democracy as an “infidel” institution. You’re right that history matters - but no leftist should be adding to the weight of a reactionary past by (implicitly) conflating Islamist terrorism with an anti-colonialist insurgency…Best, b.
Posted by Benj DeMott on Nov 19, 2004 at 6:35 PM ANUS IN THE MORNING-
Yasser Arafat’s funeral: IF U missed it!MSNBCDON IMUS: They’re (the Palestinians) eating dirt and that fat pig wife of
his is living in Paris.
COLLEAGUE: They’re all brainwashed, though. That’s what it is. And they’re
stupid, to begin with, but they’re brainwashed now. Stinking animals. They
ought to drop the bomb right there, kill ‘em all right now…
IMUS: Well, the problem is we have (reporter) Andrea (Mitchell) there; we
don’t want anything to happen to her.
COLLEAGUE: Oh, she’s got to get out. Andrea, get out and then drop the bomb
and kill everybody…
COLLEAGUE: Look at this. Animals. Animals!—THIS GOOF MUST BE A DRUNK- (typical) CREEPY SCUM AMERICAN.Ya! Don Anus,on your show with your attire,seems you’ve never taken a bath with soap.This guy is freaky looking. Has no heart!If he does must be made from poop.
Posted by IsraOil on Nov 19, 2004 at 7:46 PM Bill Blum’s cure for America’s hatred-Let us vote for him!
“If I were president, I could stop terrorist attacks against the United states in a few days. Permanently. I would first apologize-very publicly and very sincerely-to all the widows and orphans, the impoverished ad tortured, and all the many millions of other victims of American imperialism. Then I would announce to every corner of the world that America’s global military interventions have come to an end. I would then inform Israel that it is no longer the 51st state of the union but-oddly enough-a foreign country. Then I would reduce the military budget by at least 90% and use the savings to pay reparations to the victims and repair the damage from the many American bombings, invasions, and sanctions. There would be more than enough money. One year’s military budget in the United States is equal to more than $20,000 per hour for every hour since Jesus Christ was born. That’s one year. That’s what I’d do on my first three days in the White House. On the fourth day, I’d be assassinated.”
Posted by BILL BLUM on Nov 19, 2004 at 8:03 PM As a sop to those who want to stay strictly on the subject of Rashid Khalidi’s article, my only criticism of it is that it treats the revolt of 1920 in Iraq in a slightly too out-of-context way.The revolt of 1920 had already been underway in Syria - including Lebanon, Jordan and Palestine - for some months before it began in Iraq.Although many Iraqis had participated in the Arab Revolt from 1916-1918, the average interested person back home in Iraq was probably only aware of General Meade’s promises made to the Arabs on the occasion of the fall of Baghdad. They hadn’t heard as much about the agreements made with the Allies during the war, and so they were slower to realize the magnitude of the betrayal which the emerging French and British neo-colonialist plan represented.
I don’t believe that Wahhabis can’t accept living under secular laws or government provided that they are derived from and consistent with the monotheistic values of the Abrahamic faiths.Wahabi beliefs seem to me to represent a very rigorous and rational approach to Islam, emphasizing the need for the individual to make his, or her, own decisions.Some of the violent, intolerant or repressive practices associated with it are really a vestige of the bedouin culture it came out of and the reactionary political and economic purposes it has been used for, rather than the theology itself.
The political movements which have highjacked Shi’ite fundamentalism and Sunni fundamentalism have a great deal in common.They share some common goals, some common enemies, and they have each been used by another right-wing movement with global ambitions - it has headquarters in New York, Washington and London. Tel Aviv holds its oldest Middle Eastern franchise, but Riyadh and Tehran, though they have fallen-out with Washington a couple of times, have soon gotten back on board.
If the American people would wake up we could stop it.Failing that, a REAL Arab union is the only thing that can save them. It seems to me that Washington is determined to keep the Middle East down until the oil is gone…
Here’s a quote from the former President of Iran, Abol Hassan Bani Sadr, about how Washington and Tel Aviv highjacked the Iranian Revolution in 1980-81 that may clarify things some things I was trying to say in an earlier:
“The theories of the Israeli Right were winning converts (among the mullahs in 1981).According to them, the Middle East is a region without States that has always been nothing but a mosaic of communities grouped into empires.A return to this state was therefore necessary, and who better than Israel to play the role of federator? Only war could make that dream a reality.In addition, by promoting a war in the Gulf, the proponents of this theory alleviated the pressure on the Israeli borders and made the Iran-Iraq war the number one problem in the Middle East.The center of gravity of all the region’s conflicts was thus shifted from Israel to the Persian Gulf.”
Me again. Rafsanjani, the man who privatized Iran and threw Montazeri in jail as soon as Khomeini was dead, has been a US partner since 1980.I saw yesterday that he has decided he needs to be President again.
Posted by Last Leftist in Zell-land on Nov 19, 2004 at 10:32 PM Let’s face it—the one precept NOBODY brings up is that Crescent and Cross are at war. Sweep aside smaller concerns like WMDs, democraticizing the Middle East, and all that diplomatic codespeak.
It’s them against us, and any realist in America—and there are increasingly few—has the cajones to call it like it is. Extremist Islamists hate America, for many good reasons and many inaccurate ones. Only a fool would pursue a friendship with jihadists or anyone who doesn’t expressly oppose them.
We’re coming for you fuckers. Thank G-d for President Bush and his legion of right-thinking Americans who know you assholes are from the middle ages, and need an enema so the rest of the world can move into the 21st Century with some degree of reasonable cohesion.
You will have your MTV and like it. If not, say hello to your 72 virgins..it’s the closest thing you’ll ever get to pledging a fraternity and getting a license to date rape.
Posted by Probst on Nov 20, 2004 at 2:10 AM Weapons and more weapoms!!!Men are so stupid—Why do we allow them to continue?
Posted by richard jenkins on Nov 20, 2004 at 4:16 AM I!m voting for bill blum for president.On day 5 i will become president and i will destroy all of the worlds weapons and then be assisanated.Who will lead us on day 6?
Posted by richard jenkins on Nov 20, 2004 at 4:33 AM I will lead us on day 6 and i will give aids drugs to all!!I will then be assanated.who will lead us on day 7 ??
Posted by marcelline on Nov 20, 2004 at 4:43 AM Obviously the vice president or the most available Bush kin.
Posted by walkhills on Nov 20, 2004 at 4:45 AM NO OTHER THAN-SHARRON and his Republican Likud party- DIEBOLD VOTING MACHINES WILL MAKE SURE!
Believe it or not—all USA Presidents have been assissinated by the envolment of Jews.That’s what scares Blum!
Posted by IsraOil on Nov 20, 2004 at 5:00 AM Ok ok IsraOil… first of all, Lincoln had NO involvement with Jews I.E because he was assassinated by John Wilks Booth, (YEY!), Kennedy was supposedly killed by Lee Harvey Oswald, it’s not for certian who killed Kennedy because so many shots were fired on that day it’s not sure who did but anyways.
If MAN was smart they would realize that war is an extremely bad thing for their countries, it’s an extreme waste of resources take for instance, The waste of money, Taxpayers money, money that could be used for people to get more items to make their lives better, a waste of steel, instead of creating cars and things that would better life instead we are making items to slaughter people, waste of oil, we should be using it on OUR people not on the military, The military should be limited to the defence of the Country not the defence of the world. Now the most IMPORTANT waste is the waste of human life, People that could go out in the world and better others lives as well as their own, that is what we need.
I’d take day 7 and Destory the government lmao
Mythic
Posted by Mythic on Nov 20, 2004 at 4:41 PM “To restore Iraq to their control, the British used massive air power, bombing indiscriminately. That city is now called Fallujah.”
One of the most well-known and honored historians was the late Dr.” Ali Al Wardi”. He was a remarkable sociologist and considered by most as the best ever in Iraq and the Arab world but he was also a great historian when it comes to Iraq’s modern history. He wrote a series of books about the modern history of Iraq that is indispensable to anyone who wants to know the development of modern Iraq and the conflict between beduin and civil culture in Iraq that started long ago but was at its peak following WW1. His series are titled “Lamahat Ijtima’ayah min Tarikh Il Iraq Il Hadeeth” or “Sociological Glimpses from the Modern History of Iraq”.
In the 5th part, Al Wardi talks about the 1920 rebellion for about 700 pages; the events, the tribes that took part in it, the clerics role, rumors, feelings…Etc. He also mentioned Fallujah and Sheik Dhari in that part and talked about them for long 7 pages! What Al Wardi wrote in his book and what all Iraqis know is that the rebellion started in Rumaitha near Samawa, by She’at tribes, namely by Sha’alan Abu Al Jon leader of Al Dhuwalim tribe who was a She’at with help from grand She’at clerics who issued a Jihad Fatwa against the British. Only later the rebellion spread to involve most of Iraq including the areas near Fallujah. Moreover, Fallujah actually was never bombed and it was under the control of the British army all the time! Sheik Dhari’s hometown, Khan Al Nukta was half the way on the road between Baghdad and Fallujah and he had no control on any part of it!
Posted by reality check on Nov 21, 2004 at 12:03 AM This is a red-stater who read your interesting article. Unfortunately, the inhabitants of Falluja are enemies of civilized behavior. WE should do as the Romans did…destroy all signs of life and salt the earth. Not sure how anyone on this board can accept the behavior of such terrorists that decapitate, then amputate the arms of a woman, then disembowel her, then leave her on the street to be found by the Americans. Falluja is pure evil and the place deserves to become another Dresden. Burn it all.
Posted by Don on Nov 21, 2004 at 12:07 AM To Wit: http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com
This article is a fraudMore postmodernist marxist kook revisionist history
Comming from another follower of the utopian
egalitarian religion that Murdered 100+ Million peopleHow typical
Posted by Raymond on Nov 21, 2004 at 4:24 AM I sent this to Omar, it says what i want to say to this defeatist gloom and doom propagandist hoping for failure and serving as part of the leftist agitprop propaganda machine.
Mail excerpt:
Those postmodern marxist professors are friends of Saddam in that they are fellow Socialists, not Baath Socialiats mind you, they are Maoists, Stalinists, et al, and they saw in Saddam a kindred spirit. All the leftist butchers they loved filled mass graves just like Saddam.
In reading your article and looking around I found this.
http://www.aljadid.com/features/0942saeed.htmlThere is a reason for this false history Omar, put forth by marxist professors that see all leftist butchers as beloved leaders in their quest for a one world socialist utopia. (how so like the terrorists)
These fake historians are not simply wrong or operating on bad information, but they twist what was and invent what never was to being discredit and to undermine everyone working for iraqs freedom.
They want Bush to fail, they want Iraq to fail. and lies and deception are the weapons they have, and they are using them.
In the light of this other article I found, I find it quite striking that you can finnaly mention the works of a man without worry of being taken in the night, to refute Saddam’s fake history being regurgitated here for ill intent.
Unlike poor Sattar Jabr Naser, who probably still rests in a mass grave of murdered somewhere waiting to be discovered.
All our Hopes.
Posted by Raymond on Nov 21, 2004 at 5:49 AM really f’n boring and spun to hell by rashid! I can’t believe you suckers go for this crap and cheer each other on about some jihad - but then again you are probably of the uninformed youth that love to roll their own cigarettes and condemn tobacco giants while driving their petro fueled car to a protest rally!
Get real, read real facts, try www.iraqthemodel.com and go from there!
Posted by jack on Nov 21, 2004 at 8:44 AM Very good report. Does anybody had a chance to read the book from E.G White, “The Great Controversy”? Who knows this book , will also know that Jesus second comming is right by the door. USA is the second beast (from Revelation) who is talking like a lamb, but acting like a dragon…
No one Imperia through all history couldn’t stay forever, also nor USA. Devil knows the time is short, and he has not much time to do what he want to do.
Posted by abrakadabra on Nov 21, 2004 at 9:03 AM http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/
Ha ha. Funny how the people perched firmly in their top 1% of the world’s wealth seem to think they know more than the actual historians. The men and women that lived there.
This site you are currenly reading this comment is a farce.
Posted by Truth on Nov 22, 2004 at 2:06 PM ALL I KNOW IS THE MIDDLE-EAST PEOPLE HAVE NOT DONE ANY WRONG TO THE WEST.
PULLING A GOOD NATURED DOG’S TAIL LONG ENOUGH—- IT WILL BITE.
FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS THESE LANDS HAVE BEEN INVADED. FOR WHAT PURPOSE——STEALING FROM GOOD NATURED PEOPLE. BEING NOT A ARAB—I HOPE EACH AND EVERYONE, BRIT AND AMERICAN G.I.‘S GET WHAT IS COMING TO THEM—- BURIAL ON IRAQ SOIL! YA! THE POPPIES WILL GROW IN SAND,WITH A LITTLE HELP FROM THE DOGS PISSINGON THEM!
WORLD IS FULL OF SH!THEADS,AS IN SUPPORTING BUSH.
THERE IS NO GOD TO PUNISH THEM SOON.
Posted by IsraOil on Nov 22, 2004 at 7:22 PM Yet again IsraOil I must remind you that Bush AND Kerry’s supporters were mislead to thinking that this was a justified war.. hah ha.. if that’s what you want to call it go ahead I call it a mass slaughter and relocation of peoples that were in fact happy to have Saddam as their leader vs the US Military Dictatorship, the Neo-Cons or “New” Conservatives, Neo-Nazis Warmongers whatever you want to call them have made Propoganda to mislead Americans with twisted facts, EXPESIALLY about IRAN now, but my point is, these Neo-Cons said that there were hidden cashes of WMDs in storage in Iraq.. This was false and a down right lie since Saddam could not get away with making any nuclear weapons or chemicals with out the US or the UN knowing it, Bringing the first Bush lie, the Second lie that Bush is doing is that he is doing the same thing REAGAN did, Claim to lower taxes while waging a unjust war in the east, Fact of the matter is that the American people are paying MORE taxes then before, if your a democrat you don’t mind this if your a republican you see this but don’t care to think of it until our extortionist president is out of office, 4 years is not a long time, nor is 8 years the second lie, now the Third, Bush is STILL saying that his attacks on the other cities in iraq are taking out insurgents that have entered iraq… right.. you think people wouldn’t accually stand up to the most powerful government in the world when a tank is rolling by your house… The increase of “Insurgents” in Iraq were already there when the US took OVER!
Iraq will be a US-Friendly government… and you all know what that means little boys and girls… another Dictatorship/Monarchy will show up in the World *YEY!* (Scarcastically speaking)
Mythic
Posted by Mythic on Nov 24, 2004 at 7:21 AM although reagan didn’t send US troops in the 1980s he sent something Osama liked better, CIA Training and Billions of dollars in “aid” to afganistan
Mythic
Posted by Mythic on Nov 24, 2004 at 7:24 AM Does anybody know anything at all about the American military recruiting Mexican nationals in exchange for green cards? I heard that because the recruited are still Mexican nationals when they die on the field that they are not reported on the list of casualties, thus lowering the death toll. Is this an urban myth or truth? If you know anything, please let me know.
Thanks for the great article, BTW. Yes, more uneducated people need to read this article about this historical city, the middle east, American foreign policy, and the motives of the military/industrial complex.
Posted by che on Nov 24, 2004 at 8:52 AM MYTHIC—SADDAM WAS A CIA AND M16 HIRED KILLER IN THE 50’S.ALL ALONG HE HAD BEEN A PUPPET.I GUESS IT IS OLD STUFF TO MOST OFUS—-JUDGE A PERSON BY THE FREINDS HE KEEPS.AMERCA,S BEST PAL—ISRAEL.
AFTER AMERICA CIA HELPED SADDAM ASSISSINATE THE KING OF IRAQ—HE BECAME BIG CHIEF.HE SPENT $10 MILLS IN JEWISH HOLLYWOOD(ALL JEWISH ACTORS),ON A FULL LENGTH MOVIE,ABOUT HIMSELF.I WONDER IF IT WILL EVER BE SHOWN ON LATE-NITE TV.I BET IF WE CAN BREAK THE JEWUS-HOLD ON THE JEWISH MOVIE HOUSES—-IT WOULD BE A BLOCK-BUSTER.
ANY-ONE KNOW WHERE TO GET A COPY?-I BET RUMSFELD HAD A LEADING PART IN IT!
Posted by IsraOil on Nov 24, 2004 at 12:20 PM Why is it so hard for you to see the facts? You can quote your version of the history of your area, but you seem confused about your current events. The people of Mesopotamia are suffering from the same thing that the entire civilized world has been dealing with in the twentieth century. It is called the cause and effect of “Corporate Power”. Our so called free societies all have to deal with this cause and effect. In America we had to deal with the Japanese and German automobile industries. Our people lost tens of thousands of jobs and had to change their lives to survive. Life changed but our children did not suffer. There was no mass civil disobedience, no loss of life. The people of the world have to live there lives by basically the same laws and these laws have always been corrupted over time by the powerful. More laws are constantly being written. This is a continuing conversation though out history. Participate in the conversation, you can’t write new laws from outside the system. If you want to cross a river don’t fight the current. You are only on this earth for a short time. Plot your path, know the resistance, have an escape plan, and live your life to its fullest. If you struggle with your people against the world or by yourself against your people you will fail.
Posted by TGNP on Nov 24, 2004 at 2:33 PM IsraOil, The basis of your arguement is stupid.. all you talk about Jews, So fuckin what like i really care about it? I will say this again just as i have before,
RELIGION is a god damn tool for people’s stupid justifications, People are 99% the same, that 1% of a person is what you hate so much….
Saddam was a just leader if you want to put it against US’s Dictatorship, So what if he liked Isreal, so what if he didn’t discriminate based on Faith you need to wake up dude
It’s MI6 not M-16.
TGNP, the only way Corporations get power is threw an institute that has power, wait what do you know.. Our government! Governments have proved themselves corrupt in Democracies the most because they spend a Limited time in power, gee imagine that…
TGNP your saying be a conformist, don’t fight the system, go with it.. I don’t believe in that it’s people that want change and fight the system that get what they want in a Democracy
Mythic
Posted by Mythic on Nov 24, 2004 at 6:08 PM I am saying to fight the system from within. What you are describing is anarchy. Anarchist will be crushed by the originized forces around the globe. With out governments the corporations of the world would own you. Oil companies don’t need governments to hire an army. Freeport MacMaran would not think twice about taking all of the resources from a country and pouluting the water in the process. I understand where your passion comes from, but it is romanic. You talk about things that should be like they were once a fact. Tell me once in history when the people had the freedom you talk about. Here is a question for you. What is religion if it is not a form of government? All orginazations wheather governmental, religious, or corportate need to be whatched. All I am really trying to convey is, when you make your plans for your life do not overlook the powers that are in play. Find the path of least resistance and live your life to it’s fullest. The Mesopotamia area has be at war longer than any other region on the globe. The were the center of civilization at one time and now a third class member.
Posted by TGNP on Nov 24, 2004 at 6:50 PM Mythic:—Geee! some tamper you have.
FACT—ALL MAJOR WARS and assassinations of major figures have been done by JEWS.So get off the pot and flush the stench.Wake-up! ,talk to the Palestinians about the greedy jews and get a true lesson.Over hundred years ago,the palestinians took the hebs into their country and treated them as freinds.I know many Palestinians—and not one has the meanness as the Jews.If the problem in the middle-east is the main cause of war and suffering,then why not talk about the greedy Jews.When the news media is mostly controlled by jews and it is a crime to critize them,then as a true citizen -I’m concerned. Why don’t you let us know your opinion on what the root cause of millions of Arab’s suffering. They are not stupid.The next time you knock someone down,on this Jew issue,I ask yourselve—Romans to the Americans—why the occupation and senseless killings?
I don’t agree with some that say—all Jews into the sea. I’m in full agreement for their safety,lot’s of room in America.
Bring peace to the middle-east-ship all Jews out.Arabs have suffered long enough.
I have to go—-I hear the Jewish landlord coming for the rent!
Posted by IsraOil on Nov 24, 2004 at 6:56 PM The United States is now in the hands of a fascist operating religious regime. The lower levels of US judicial system have slowly been taken over. The legislative and executive branches of the government are firmly in their hands. Anyone who fantasizes their grip will loosen would be wise to keep it to himself. American soldiers will be used to assure that we hold Arab oil. We are in for a very interesting - very long period of opression and chaos.
Posted by Birchbark on Nov 25, 2004 at 10:18 PM This is a very good analysis of the situation, to bad every body won’t read it even if you forward it to them. They are to busy playing Video War Games.I just left my daughter’s home because the video games dominated the atmosphere there, no time for serious conversation. But they know the answers to all the problems. On voting proceedures: each precinct needs a simple card counter so thatits’ results can be posted on a “black board” BEFORE sending the results to the county central collecting post.
Posted by Juel B. Ewards on Nov 26, 2004 at 12:41 AM OH - I forget to add that our beloved government Nazi’s have the Supreme court pretty well owned, a lock will soon occur.
As for elections, the paper ballot that one only needs to be able to read and finish an arrow for ones choice is so simple. Easy to count and to recount. Of course, they can lose as many as needed.
I shouldn’t care - will die in six weeks; but damn, my offspring are grown and will have to look after themselves. Trouble is I am so sure they will have a bleak future in this country, and I am just “some kind of nut - paranoid”
Posted by birchbark1 on Nov 26, 2004 at 3:12 AM PAPER BALLOTS: These paper ballots are the hardest and most unreliable type of ballots to count. Any one who has ever worked in a large precinct when paper ballots were used can tell you it is almost impossible to get the same count from two different people counting and since there are several races being counted on each sheet, there is quite a mess in tallying the count and making it agree with the number who voted and the number of ballots handed out. I have stayed all night in a polling place trying to count paper ballots in a 4 year election. I have known of precincts which got so tired they quit for the night and didn’t come back ‘til the next day, what an uproar that caused, 1964 or 1968. The simplest and surest way is to use IBM cards with a high quality puncher. Then each precinct needs to have a MECHANICAL (not electronic) card counter and then POST THE RESULTS at the precinct in public view before sending them in for central collection. There is no other HONEST way. It’s so simple and convenient, why can’t the politicians see it. Maybe that’s it , too simple ,too honest, too sure.
Posted by Juel B. Ewards on Nov 26, 2004 at 4:21 AM By the way; I suggested this method to my local county; Aiken County,S.C. which USED TO BE an imppeccably run election system, before the chief retired. What was their flimsy excuse for rejecting it? Ha Ha! It wasn’t according to FEDERAL GUIDELINES!! When did the Federal Gov’t get the right to tell US how to count OUR votes? When wll the sheeple wake up and roar?
Posted by Juel B. Ewards on Nov 26, 2004 at 4:33 AM OK - I admit ignorance to ballots and counting thereof…but I have experience with computers going back to 1960…THEY CAN BE MANIPULATED by way of programming.
If someone would produce a machine that produced a receipt to the voter that he/she could verify AND also printed a line item for every vote on paper…......
That would help a lot, but even then could be pollulted.
Posted by Birchbark1 on Nov 26, 2004 at 5:03 AM Every one who is interested in fair voting practices should VOLUNTEER to help at the polls for several elections. There are “voter registration books” where everyone registered is listed in alpabetical order. When you show your “Registration Card” they black mark a certain block and nobody else with that name and registraton card in their hand can vote. Then they hand you an IBM card. After you punch it in the booth in secrecy YOU place it into the LOCKED box. When the polls close, the public is allowed into the place to observe the unlocking of the box. The public watches as the cards are dumped on a large table and stacked all facing the same direction with an angle-cut corner as a guide. The cards have to be counted by hand at this point and the number has to exactly equal the number of people who went through the line and signed the book. Any spoiled cards are accounted for and these figures go onto a report form to be sent to county hdqtrs. along with the ballots which are now wrapped with a rubber band and placed back in the box and SEALED with a special tamper-proof seal. There are allowed to be poll watchers from all political parties who can follow the car taking the ballots to hdqtrs. However this is not neccessary as the seal is on the boxes. My only change to make it fool-proof is that the public would witness a count at the precinct level, that means YOU ARE THERE, watching and you can see the height of each stack of cards, even measure it if you like, and compare
the height of each stack with the count to see if it makes sense. You need to work the polls to see the simplicity of it all. Problem today is we’ve got generations of people who can’t DO ANYTHING. They can’t conceive the solutions to ordinary problems. And yes, I agree with you about computers being programmed to cheat. I repaired computers starting in 1975 at the chip level and know how they work and know how Machine Language works. I know enough about high level languages to know it is hopeless to assume computers today can be trusted with the most important political process we use, the voting system.
Posted by Juel B. Ewards on Nov 26, 2004 at 5:37 AM The comments made by Caroline are particularly worth noting…..the new ““cold”” war against Europe….and “war for a decade or more….”“.
and ““ultimately America wants to isolate and divide Europe and Eurasia as well.”
I am deeply suspicious of the role Bush has chosen for the Australian Prime Minister, John Howard, whom he calls his “sherrif in Asia.”
The Howard Government has allied Australia more closely with the USA than we have been in decades…and has now trustingly signed a “Free Trade Agreement” which, if the Canadian experience is any guide, won’t be beneficial to Australia at all.
Just what plans are in store for us?? Unquestionably, a supply of cannon fodder on call….and what about our uranium deposits and gas fields??
I’m worried.
Posted by AussieFem on Nov 26, 2004 at 6:34 AM very good article. it is so important to include the historical perspective—something that americans work hard at avoiding. i am always reminded of a concept that was repeated during the heyday of the civil rights movement: people who done know their history, cannot know who they are, and do not know where they are going! it is impossible to understand anything without a sense of history.
this is the type of article that should be passed around freely—including to local politcial representatives, along with ones opinion/commentary. i do find these people pay attention to their constituencies, especially when they get the same perspective from lots of other folks. a little local activism is in order.
Posted by tanya on Nov 26, 2004 at 10:20 AM Fraud in voting will never be removed.Just as in income tax as in voting,there is a under(lying)similiar problem.Why should we not know what some-one claims on his income tax form and same in how someone voted.why is it a big secret.take for example Collin Powel,a general then a a lackie for Bush-accumulates 28$million in a short while.It should be a public record in everyone,s voting and income tax.
Suggest—-eveyone voting gets a printout with a number,the whole list is made availble on the internet and each voter can check his input and anyone can have access to the form printout. I don’t get -why the secret in voting is sooooooo protected.
Odd, that the bank machines can account for every penny!
By the way—Kerry took a dive as in boxing—-another sh!thead for Israel
America what a mess!
Posted by george archers on Nov 26, 2004 at 1:56 PM WHAT FOOLS WE HAVE IN AMERICA,SEEMS in HISTORY 101 , SHOULD INCLUDE THE FOLLOWING—I watched on the Lehrur report-the faces of the dead youth from Iraq.most 19 yearolds—which parents can’t trust with the family car—-killed for what-?-*******************************************
Never in the thirteenth century was there to be a general coalition of Western kings for a Crusade, as there had been in 1187. This was in part due, no doubt, to the internal politics of thirteenth century Europe, in part to the gradual decline of the Crusading movement itself. That the spirit of the Crusade was not dead is amply proved by the eight large expeditions from various quarters of Europe during the thirteenth century. The survival of the Crusading spirit during the century is further shown by the extraordinary movement in 1212 which is known as the Children’s Crusade. This expedition which, of course, was not a Crusade at all in the strict sense of the term attracted thousands of children and young adults from northern France and western Germany to its banners.The “Crusade” was preached in France by a peasant boy named Stephen from a village near Vendome. In Germany, a boy named Nicholas from Cologne started the movement . The sorry business was summarized by a chronicler in these terms:
In this year occurred an outstanding thing and one much to be marveled at, for it is unheard of throughout the ages. About the time of Easter and Pentecost,4 without anyone having preached or called for it and prompted by I know not what spirit, many thousands of boys, ranging in age from six years to full maturity, left the plows or carts which they were driving, the flocks which they were pasturing, and anything else which they were doing. This they did despite the wishes of their parents, relatives, and friends who sought to make them draw back. Suddenly one ran after another to take the cross. Thus, by groups of twenty, or fifty, or a hundred, they put up banners and began to journey to Jerusalem. They were asked by many people on whose advice or at whose urging they had set out upon this path. They were asked especially since only a few years ago many kings, a great many dukes, and innumerable people in powerful companies had gone there and had returned with the business unfinished. The present groups, morever, were stfll of tender years and were neither strong enough nor powerful enough to do anything. Everyone, therefore, accounted them foolish and imprudent for trying to do this. They briefly replied that they were equal to the Divine will in this matter and that, whatever God might wish to do with them, they would accept it willingly and with humble spirit. They thus made some little progress on their journey. Some were turned back at Metz, others at Piacenza, and others even at Rome. Still others got to Marseilles, but whether they crossed to the Holy Land or what their end was is uncertain. One thing is sure: that of the many thousands who rose up, only very few returned.
*********************************************
Mr.Moron Bush and the zoolot americans and I do not mean Zealots—Dumb-Fu@ked-up 2nd class Jewish bigots ( as in Christ Bull)
Posted by george archers on Nov 26, 2004 at 4:01 PM Juel, sounds like you know a good system for getting voting somewhere near foolproof…sorry that none will be scoundrelproof.
Tanya - if you want to contemplate historical prespective: The parallels of the present Bush clique is terribly similar to the Nazi’s actions and propaganda of the 1930’s. It was very effective in duping the Germans, and my-oh-my how we are so concerned with religious morality and patriotism.
One modernization our Nazi’s have come up with is enlisting the preacher/priest class. These are folks with millenia of brainwashing the stupid citizenry.
Posted by Birchbark1 on Nov 26, 2004 at 10:10 PM Thank you for your article. Fallujah is also known as the city of mosques. Now it stands to be known as another city of organized genocide. I have never felt such sadness and rage ... such impotence.. such betrayal… all of the institutions so deeply respected seem to have shuttered down and become the silent/complicit part of the genocide taking place in Iraq.
And the reason for this preemptive war was to find weapons of mass destruction? What happened? The reason morphed and morphed again? Until human lives don’t matter one jot.
As for history? It doesn’t seem to ever teach, does it? Violence never worked and never will.
My thoughts and prayers are with the Iraqis.
Posted by lajo gupta on Nov 26, 2004 at 10:29 PM And they say Arabs do not love this U.S of A! They arrest Arabs, persecute them, ship them to Guantanamo and to Mideaval regimes to torture them on behalf of the Neo-Cons junta that hijacked the trusting, unsuspecting, gallant people of this Constitutional Land of the free and the brave.
Thank you Doctor Khalidi. The Pentagon Report reiterates your concerns and your facts as well. I, as a proud American/Palestinian, hope every fellow American reads both reports. This will happen sooner or later. For, you can not deceive ALL the people ALL the time!
Samira
Posted by Samira Khatib on Nov 27, 2004 at 1:17 AM For over 50 years I have never been able to understand one constant feature of USA policy. Why do we support Israel- ignoring the opression it puts on the Palestinians, and do not bother to realize we are antagonizing at least 4 times as many peoples of the Muslim world as there are Isralis.Od course to even think that makes on “anti-semitic” To give a bit of prespective about the Iraq situation read a book titled “Churchill’s Blunder” (I think that is the correct title)
Posted by birchbark1 on Nov 27, 2004 at 1:59 AM A see a lot of hate, from both sides on this thread. Right L& Left. Who is the real enemy!
Let us never forget, “Who” opened “Pandora’s Box” and released the demons that now afflict Iraq. “Who” used the lies of WMD, and Iraqi Al Quida links to justify that invasion? “Who” kicked over the “Can of Worms” and made room for the parasites to flourish? “Who” wrote the dictates that would privatize a sovereign nation? “Who” brought and still delivers, ruin agony and death to Iraqi women & children with Depleted Uranium, Cluster Bombs, Gun ships and Sanctions? “Who” freely gives the inspiration to hate and murder to their enemies? “Who” pays and “Who” profits from all of this? “Who’s” bottom line becomes more bloated than the bodies of their victims. “Who” pukes out the name of, Jesus, to justify their insane reactions to their own lusts and fears? “Who” hides the truth in propaganda, fear and lies? Citizens of America! “Who” poured out the blood of their victims upon your hands?
As chaos and murder take control of Iraq like never before. As all the Kings horses and all the King’s men fail to put Humpty together again. As hate and venom triumphs over any chance of peace let alone reconciliation. As whole races are reduced to the “OTHER”, reduced to things to be hated and feared. As we watch, seemingly helpless as this maniacal insanity once again grips the human psyche. As de-evolved slope headed brutes take control and wreck their havoc upon us all. As blood and guilt is even now being poured out upon us all! We should ask, why has the Spirit of America come to be seen as a demonic monstrosity to the rest of the world? We should ask, “Who” has brought us to this?
Who but the bottom liners, the stone hearted, the mind fogged reptilian bottom feeders who allow themselves to be inspired by their own greed, fear and lust for control. “Who” but those who put their own profit above the world in which WE all live. Who smugly rejoice as evil reigns and call it good. “Who” practice a fascist Plutocracy as they mouth freedom and Democracy from the end of a forked tongue.K.L.C.
Posted by Keith on Nov 27, 2004 at 2:55 AM The truth will set us all free.
www.zerotolerenceforwar.org
Pray for peace on earth,
Dan
Posted by Dan on Nov 27, 2004 at 3:52 AM RE: poster does not understand ,why America sucks upto Israel( Jews).I don’t know how old he is,but we slaves cater to the Jews.
To learn how stupid or fearful,americans are, ask them this question-Example—if 9/11 was proved that Israel and zionist poli-ticks, master minded the downing of WTC,would we kick jewish ass and bomb israel,like we did Iraq?
Fact, It is a punishable crime to critize Jews in north America. How did these freaks get so much -power?—-they bought us!
All major News media is Jewish owned.Every Politick is either a Jew or paid lackie.
Not many know or care about the Israel bombing of USS Liberty. Major cover-up by Senator Mc Cains father—Now you know how many senators become milliomairs.
For the dumb-founded posters,
read and see some pictures of the following Israelie criminal deeds .
http://www.libertyforum.org/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=news_members&Number= =293014609
You can judge every person by the friends he keeps.
When Nixon got re-elected,with a majority ,it took 3 months to kick him out.
U.S.$—is about to kick Bush in the face.Send a message-dump your U.S.$s
Posted by george archers on Nov 27, 2004 at 3:56 PM http://www.iraqwar.mirror-world.ru/tiki-read_article.php?articleId=31878
seems american troops are no better then pigs—all they know is shit and fuck in Iraq home invasions
Posted by Bill- on Nov 28, 2004 at 1:05 AM The amazing thing for me is how a nation that prides itself on its standard of education and sophistication, knowlingly supports a murderous regime that murders and enslaves for the benefit of the chosen few while the vast majority of Americans pay the price of their actions.
The even more amazing thing is how this nation allows itself to be deceived and fooled not once but multiple times and continues to believe that their media is truthful and their politicians are honest.
Probably many of them also believe that Santa exists.
I suggest you send him to Iraq to deliver candy to the Falluja kids (those who are still alive) and Marlboros to our brave Marines who are killing the little buggers.
And remember, the guy in the white beard and fool’s cap and red coat is SANTA and he is NOT BULLET PROOF.
Posted by Yawar on Nov 28, 2004 at 1:52 PM Still going on this, eh? I think it is important to engage the questions, so here is my further two cents:
Those of you who are spewing hatred at Americans in general do not seem to realize that 49% of the voters in this country voted against Bush and a large number despise Bush and his criminal friends.
We understand your rage and desperate feeling of helplessness and sorrow. We feel it as well.
Perhaps this will surprise you, but i have been prepared to lose a loved one, an innocent bystander or one who has no racist feelings or animosity toward Islam or others of any kind, a child even, in a revenge attack ever since Gulf Atrocity One, and when the towers were falling I was not one wit surprised, nor were many people i know. THAT DID NOT MAKE THE ATTACK A MORAL OR RIGHT THING TO DO! THAT DOES NOT MAKE ANY KILLING IN ANY WAY OK!
Sad to say, but the consciousness that requires the kind of self examination you wish, is not in the majority in America at present. I am hoping and praying, counting on it even, that one day it will be. We are working very hard here in America in many circles to make it be so. Perhaps we will take to the streets as the courageous people in Kiev, Ukraine are doing even as we speak.
One thing is sure, we will pay for our sins, and dearly so. It’s a universal law.
So why don’t those of you who can do so, work for justice and peace in the little piece of the earth that you are livin’ in right now, and leave what you can’t do to God and the angels? [perhaps me and my friends are angels]
Gandhi said: “Be the change you wish to see in the world” and so I am.
I pray constantly for our soldiers many of whom are telling the truth of what they are seeing as a sicker than sick betrayal of morality in the highest order in Iraq. Tthe truth is getting out…it’s just not enough to make a difference in the criminals in the White House….yet.
I have been planning on taking my daughter to Europe for seven years… way before any of this present horror, for her high school graduation, to help complete her provincial education here in America…and i am scared to death…so afraid, that just because we are Americans, we will be attacked and vilified…even tho our sympathies are with the people who might harm us. but we have faith in the general goodness of people and feel sure when we speak to others they will realize our, and many Americans’, disgust at the moral cretins in power in the USA at present. We know this did not begin with Bush. i am hoping much will end with him.
Godspeed to all.
Posted by femalespirit on Nov 29, 2004 at 1:06 AM WEll, femalespirit
I am glad you are praying, because it will do you good…and that is all it will do.
Posted by birchbark1 on Nov 29, 2004 at 3:25 AM Yoh! “femalspirit” Thanks for the small cool draft of sanity.
Posted by Keith on Nov 29, 2004 at 4:20 AM Well,there have been many good common sense replies on Faluga 101, but good common sense must not be narrowed down and restricted to just one situation like this. This contry went wild in WW2 the same way and until that error is fully understood and admitted we don’t, as a nation, know how to get back onto the straight and narrow railroad track. Great Britain started bombing German civilian areas in towns before Germany retaliated by bombing London. That is an irrefutable fact and is proved by printed documents of the time. Even newspapers can be used for this too. But since practically nobody in the US knows how to understand or read German, their statements are easily trashed as “propaganda” as if only they used it. The younger generation of Americans need to educate themselves as the schools will not educate them. They can start by observing pictures of the completely destroyed 50 largest cities in Germany in 1945. They are ignorant of this. Not a stone was left standing of so many buildings. Not a roof or wooden board left of gutted whole city centers. It would take a library (such as I have) to show all the horrors of WW2 and it was just as unneccesary as the Iraq Wars. This country didn’t just go mad this year, it’s been insane a long time. Untill we get an Administration which will admit our errors and immorallity and ignorance we are in for a long stretch of greiving. If George Bush and his advisors, including Kissinger, were hung on a short rope like the Germans were it would cause a sudden reversal of policy and an awakening of self morality among politicians. Without this reversal point, we are in for a long sad future.
Posted by Juel B. Ewards on Nov 29, 2004 at 4:51 AM Juel
REmember Ike’s warning about the military/industrial complex…We got it in spades and no administration change will shake it loose.BIG MONEY makes the toys for our military nuts, and everyone is happy… I’d love to see our total military shut down. So if we were invaded and taken over—- pity the poor occupier that will try to rule our collection of gun happy rednecks.
Posted by birchbark1 on Nov 29, 2004 at 4:58 AM Juel [and others],
Perhaps what you say will happen. i am prepared, emotionally and physically.
I, and many in America, are well aware of the atrocities perpetrated in many places during WWII, even the American Civil War, and wars in general. We even know that we provoked Japan to attack Pearl Harbor, and that the bombing of Desden was a horror, and the firebombing of 100 Japanese cities was a war crime prior to Hiroshima and Nagasaki was more revenge, just for the hell of it. We know these things.
The point is not all that. the point is what is to be done NOW?
Aron Gandhi was interviewed, by BBC i think and he said he spoke to Arafat before his “illness” and death.
He said we must ALL give up violence, it’s the only way. Resistence of non-violence is NOT THE SAME AS PACEFISM! It’s not the same as rolling over and allowing oneself to be obliterated.Speaking of the Palestinians, he said, if tens or hundreds of thousands of Palestinian refugees just gathered from all over the Middle East together and marched enmasse to Israel, what would the government do? mow down them all? they couldn’t do it for one thing, and they wouldn’t anyway. If they do any killing at all, in the face of non-violence, they will be exposed for all the world to see explicity the morally bankrupt people they are.
Some people may be hurt, or die, yes, but one MUST be willing to put oneself in harm’s way for justice.
ARE YOU? I am and have.
So many have died and suffered already for all these years, and for what? WHAT?
Non-violent resistence does, has and will work. it’s he ONLY way.
Think about it.
Again, Godspeed to all.
Posted by femalespirit on Nov 29, 2004 at 3:25 PM FOR THE LADY, WHO BELIEVES IN CHRIST—
http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=4072
IF ONLY SHE KNEW HOW AMERICA IS CHEWING UP THE WORLD—SURE,THE STREETS ARE JAMMED PROTESTING THE ELECTION IN THE UKRAINE—-WHERE IS OUR CHRIST LOVING FOLKS PROTESTING OUR DIEABOLD MACHINE CROOOKED RESULTS—-PRAYING AIN’T GONIG TO HELP,NICE LADY.I GUESS SENDING YOUR DAUGHTER TO EUROPE IS SMART.I WISH PEOPLE WOULD READ MORE,INSTEAD OF GETTING THE B.S. FROM OUR ZIONIST MEDIA.NOT ONE WORD ABOUT OUR FRAUD IN THE NOV.2/04 ELECTION,—-FRAUD IN OTHER COUNTRIES—ALWAYS,LIKE UKRAINE.
AMERICA THE FREE—HUMBUG!
Posted by JACKIE NOBLE on Nov 29, 2004 at 7:17 PM JN,
Thanks for the link to the Justin Ramundo piece on the events in Ukraine. I have read his blog many times before.
However, he convienently does not explain the thousands in the streets. what about them? Is George Soros paying them all? perhaps. IF NOT, WHAT THEN?
As for praying and God, all those who feel violated by the mere mention, simple: if you don’t believe in prayer, don’t do it.
prayer, is no consolation to you?...sorry that is not why i do it. ....why do you apparently have the need to bash and deride and berate those who do? have you ever thought of that? hmmmmm. live and let live if no one is being hurt, i say.
i am an activist, writing letters, giving money and reading in many places of information to give the truth to those who can’t or won’t and depend on me for information…i talk loud in restaurants and in front of strangers to make them think…i listen to people like you to get a different perspective…
what are YOU doing besides spreading despair and derision?
enough.
Godspeed to all.
Posted by femalespirit on Nov 29, 2004 at 10:51 PM and one more thing: i have that photo of a dead child and man in the streets of Fallujah along with the story of the dead lying in the streets being eaten by dogs and cats i got off the internet ON MY FILE CABINET WHERE ALL IN MY OFFICE PASS BY ALL DAY LONG.
Before that it was the Abu Grhaib photo of the Iraqi standing on the box.
Got any more suggestions that don’t include violence? didn’t think so.
Posted by femalespirit on Nov 29, 2004 at 11:00 PM Hey Folks!
Hey I like this thread. We got “Red Necks! & Terrorists Talkin. This is REALLY REALLY GOOD! Are we having a good time?
What the Hell is the matter with us all?
I hate Jew!, I hate Moslem, I hate Christian Fundamentalist, I hate Fascist Pig! Are we all enjoying Ourselves! What the Hell is the matter here? !!! Cannot you see that this is a psychosis that the human race is prone to from time to time. Cancer can kill you and so can Mental Illness. They both can be Devastating. Now when a good portion on the Species catches this BUG eg Mental Illness!!! ……Deep disease….., We call it Hate. All Hell breaks loose! <WHO’s THE PUPPET>< AND WHO’s THE PUPPET MASTER>?
Posted by Keith on Nov 30, 2004 at 2:41 AM Keith,you must like war games-shot’um up-get a high,I bet,You must be one of the mental goofs of the 59 million who voted for that mental case Bush.Stupid fool—-don’t you have any morals?
Posted by Sam Wyu on Nov 30, 2004 at 12:30 PM Yoh Sam Wyu!
Bush is a fascist! A Fascist. You did not read my posts very carefully. Please re-read my post of Nov.26, 8:55 PM to see how I feel and think on the Bush problem.
You reaction seems to me a bit –knee jerk-. The kind of thing that creates more smoke and fog. The very thing we should be trying to avoid. The very thing my last post is meant to address. As long as we are reduced to name calling our adversaries we will accomplish very little.
WHAT SAY YOU?
Posted by Keith on Nov 30, 2004 at 1:08 PM “BUSH IS A FACIST”—VERY MILD LABEL KEITH
“Why should we hear about body bags and deaths? Oh, I mean, it’s not relevant. So why should I waste my beautiful mind on something like that?” Barbara Bush, March 18, 2003.
LET US DEMAND THE BUSH FAMILY BE SENT PACKING TO IRAQ TO FIGHT!
CHEERS TO KEITH—-AMERICA HAS LOST 133 TIN SOLDIERS IN NOV.04,SAD PART IT IS NOT 133,000.
THAT WOULD TEACH THEM 59 MILLION MORON YANKS A GOOD LESSON..
Posted by Sam Wyu on Nov 30, 2004 at 5:09 PM -
register a new account »Posting Security
Posted by saer on Nov 24, 2004 at 8:48 PM 
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