There is a small City on one of the bends of the Euphrates that sticks out into the great Syrian Desert. It’s on an ancient trade route linking the oasis towns of the Nejd province of what is today Saudi Arabia with the great cities of Aleppo and Mosul to the north. It also is on the desert highway between… return to article
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Reader Comments (212)http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2004/11/30/ukraine_election/
[...]
But if the Ukraine standard were applied in Ohio—as it should be—then the late lamented U.S. election certainly was stolen. In Ohio, the secretary of state in charge of the elections process was co-chairman of the Bush campaign in the state. He obstructed the vote count systematically—for instance, by demanding that provisional ballots without birth dates on their envelopes be thrown out, even though there is no requirement for that in state law. He also required that provisional ballots be cast in a voter’s home precinct, ensuring that there would be no escape from long lines. Republicans fielded thousands of election challengers to Democratic precincts, mainly to try to intimidate black voters and to slow down the voting process. A recount, demanded and paid for by the Green and Libertarian parties, has been stalled in court, so that it won’t possibly upset the certification of Ohio’s electoral votes.In Franklin County, Ohio, there was rampant abuse, with voting machines added in Republican precincts and taken away in Democratic ones, as documented by the Columbus Dispatch. The result was a crippling pileup at the polls; many thousands did not vote because they simply could not afford to wait. I witnessed this with my own eyes. And Sen. Lugar could have, too, for much less than the price of airfare to Kiev. [...]
Done.
Posted by femalespirit on Nov 30, 2004 at 3:11 PM TO FEMALESPIRIT AND OTHER LEVEL MINDED FOLKS;
NICE TO HAVE A WOMEN SPEAK ON THIS ISSUE.RECALL,MOST WOMEN WOULD VOTE FOR BUSH.I WOULD THOUGHT THE OPPOSITE---I CAN’T STOMACH WATCHING THIS CREEP.
HOWEVER,CHECK THIS SITE ARTICLE--ELECTION FRAUD--ON THE FRAUD ELECTION--THIS GUY REALLY KNOWS HIS STUFF-- AT THE ENDING READ THE INPUT COMMENTS OR ADD YOURS.SEEMS WE HAVE FORGOTTEN ABOUT THE POOR BLEEDING IRAQIES.
KNOW YOUR ENEMY-NEVER CALL ISRAEL YOUR FRIEND!
YOU’LL BE SORRY!
Posted by GEORGE on Nov 30, 2004 at 3:27 PM SORRY FOLKS-MISSED THE SITE---
http://www.politicalstrategy.org/archives/000869.php
KERRY TOOK A DIVE--WON’T ANYONE!
Posted by GEORGE on Nov 30, 2004 at 3:30 PM The irony is delicious. We (America) are an aging, religiously conservative country. We need to appeal to the liberal wing of the Muslim nation so the conservatives don’t blow us up. Facinating.
Posted by Beny Flores on Nov 30, 2004 at 9:13 PM BUSH IS A FASCIST"--VERY MILD LABEL KEITH
“Why should we hear about body bags and deaths? Oh, I mean, it’s not relevant. So why should I waste my beautiful mind on something like that?” Barbara Bush, March 18, 2003.Yoh! Sam
I am glad to see that we are in to a degree of agreement. I call Bush his administration and the people who support him fascists because they fit the dictionary definition of the word. They define themselves as fascists by their actions and policies. They do not like to be called such for it exposes them for what they are. We are all aware of the sub-human obscenities that this form of government logically devolves to. Therefore to call them Fascist is use what I believe to be a very powerful word against them. It is to use the truth. They would much rather be called “shitheads”, or “assholes” or some other such other expletive because to them this gives them justification to return your hate, and that is what they most want to do. That is why we see so much name calling on these threads. They love to inspire hate! It allows them to hide from the truth of what they are. How am I to reach the poor benighted Zombies that have succumb to their lies and propaganda if my words do nothing but generate heat, and hate. I must admit, I do hate fascism; I also hate intolerant religious fanaticism. I see them to be a mental and spiritual disease upon the collective mind of mankind. There are those who are so taken with these evils that they have become terminal and unredeemable. I would account Bush & Osama Bin Laden among these. There are many others who have been taken with their lies, propaganda and fear, who would I hope can be reached and perhaps cured.
I see the Fascists and Fanatics using vast swathes of the world’s population to engage their rabid insanity in a dance of war murder and death. They have so rationalized their actions that they truly believe them to be justified.
Bush and the American Corporate elite have all the fancy weapons, depleted Uranium, cluster bombs etc.etc. But it is just a matter of time when the fanatics on the other end of the spectrum deliver a suitcase nuke and New York or perhaps Chicago will suddenly disappear. Unless we can break the escalating cycle of violence I would recommend that we all learn to spell the word –DINOSAUR- because our own self-immolation will make them our cousins.PS: Your quote from Barbara Bush is much appreciated. It reveals the sub human mindset of the people that have taken control of the United States.
IT EXPOSES THEM!!
Posted by Keith on Dec 1, 2004 at 8:32 AM 1) Keith is an example of that which he professes to despise.
Calling others “Sub-Human” is a serious indicator of a troubled mind.I do not support Bush, never have.
I do not support the invasion of Iraq, never have.But Keith is a fanatic just as bad as any Neo-Conservative.
Fanaticism is wrong.
Therefore…
Keith is wrong. (So is Bush)Moreover, if NY or Chicago disappear, so will most of the Muslim World. Because at that point the overwhelming majority of americans will support annihilating them. No nukes needed, just use the Air Force to shut down the water and electricity for a month or two in each region in turn.
2)The irony that Beny Flores mentioned (While not “Delicious” in my view) is pronounced. It is visible EVERYWHERE. In the Ukraine, America supports the liberals. In the Middle East, America supports the liberals. In China, America supports the Liberals.
The founding fathers of this nation were DEEPLY Liberal.
Apparently what is good for other nations (And the founding fathers of America) is not good for America, in the eyes of the Bush Administration and its supporters.
But I remember “Sauce for the Goose is sauce for the Gander.”
3) Monotheism is a cause of violence.
Not the only one, but a cause of violence.One less reason to make war is GOOD.
One more reason to make war is BAD.
Thus, monotheism is bad.The West has monotheism, the East doesn’t.
The East has no history of religious warfare.
The West does. Lots of it.There is no Eastern equivalent to the following western horrors;
The Crusades
The Arab Jihad
The Inquisition
The Assassins
The Thirty Years War
The Wars of Religion in FranceI could go on.
Religion is everywhere, the difference is Monotheism. Where there is montheism, there is a much worse history of violence.From the Zealots of ancient Judea through the Assassins of classical Islamic times to the Fundamentalists of today (Muslim, Jewish and Christian alike) there is a history of religous violence.
China, Japan, Korea, Indochina, they saw nothing like this horror. They had their MUCH FEWER nationalist conflicts, but they had almost no religious violence.
Humans have enough to fight over without adding another. Monotheism added another reason to fight.
It is a bane on the planet.
It reduces us as humans.BornJewish
===========================================
Let the mind be enlarged to the grandeur of the mysteries, and not the mysteries contracted to the narrowness of the mind.
Francis BaconReason is the greatest enemy that faith has: it never comes to the aid of spritual things, but, more frequently than not, struggles against the divine word. Reason must be deluded, blinded and destroyed. Faith must trample underfoot all reason, sense and understanding; and whatever it sees must be put out of sight and know nothing but the word of god.
Martin Luther (1500’s)I have never seen the slightest scientific proof of the religious theories of heaven and hell, of future life for individuals, or of a personal God. I can not believe in the immortality of the soul. No, all this talk of an existence for us, as individuals, beyond the grave is wrong. It is born of our tenacity of life, our desire to go on living, our dread of coming to an end.
Thomas Alva Edison
The New York Times (October 2, 1910) Magazine Section.The idea of a personal god is an anthropological concept which I can not take seriously. I also can not imagine some will or goal outside the human sphere. Science has been charged with undermining morality, but the charge is unjust. A man’s ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death.
Albert Einstein
“Religion and Science,” New York Times Magazine, 9 November 1930I don’t have to know an answer. I don’t feel frightened not knowing things, by being lost in a mysterious universe without any purpose, which is the way it really is as far as I can tell. It doesn’t frighten me.
Richard P. Feynman - PhysicistGood people will do good things, and bad people will do bad things. But for good people to do bad things, that takes religion.
Steven Weinberg - PhysicistHmmm, completely a-religious—atheist. I find that people seem to think religion brings morals and appreciation of nature. I actually think it detracts from both.
Linus Torvalds - Inventor of LINUX
Posted by BornJewish on Dec 1, 2004 at 9:24 AM Thank you for such an eloquent response. I would however encourage you to think more clearly and not allow your mind to be so fogged by your own prejudices. You obviously perceive me as a threat. If you read carefully. I call a form of government and its resulting obscenities “Sub Human”. Why such a --Knee Jerk --- reaction?
You say that you do not support the policies of the Bush administration, neither do I. You seem to recognize that religious fanaticism as a bane upon humanity, so do I.
To quote you, “Moreover, if NY or Chicago disappear, so will most of the Muslim World. Because at that point the overwhelming majority of Americans will support annihilating them.” Is this desirable>??
Why do you perceive me as a threat, “BornJewish”? That you would have to brand me a fanatic! I stand on what I have written and make no apology. If we do not cure ourselves of mongering hate we are surely lost. I come out against hate and evil and am defined by you as a fanatic! You reveal to me your darker side.
Posted by Keith on Dec 1, 2004 at 10:14 AM All it took was listening to the news, checking out sites on the internet and reading the newspaper to affect my sleep at night!
Does anyone else see how wrong all of this is?
The whole war? The United States troops being over in Iraq? Our people are dying; innocent civilians over in Iraq are dying? Look, I have a daughter and a family and all that I can think about is, I would hate for thousands of troops to come here and take over in the United States and for something to happen to my daughter or family!
Is it worth it? Our cause and reason for the war?
Innocent people dying? So many of us are grown people who can voice against this war and see what is wrong. It is wrong because none of us have a right to choose who dies and this war will continue until we pull out and come home to our families and begin to start something new.
Obviously this approach with our troops over there fighting isn’t solving the problem or making anyone content with the results and it will continue to be an eye for an eye until we stop it!
My heart truly goes out to the families over there,the civilians families and ALL of the troops! I can’t believe that in this day and age, people actaully believe all this death is justified because of a dispute over oil! Nothing justifies millions of innocent people dying! CHILDREN! I am saddened by the thought of all the heartache this war is causing. Most of the civilians in Iraq do not agree with their goverment but yet they are being punished.
Their families are dying. Their children.
I also bet our troops would rather be here celebrating life instead of taking lives over there. I just don’t understand or see this as acceptable no matter what the reason…
Posted by Crystal on Dec 3, 2004 at 2:50 PM Yoh “Crystal”
It is heart breaking. I agree it is. People of good will, who at least try to hold hate at bay must support one another. We have Fanatical Terrorist running around wanting to kill everyone on one side, and we have Political Zealots running around on the wanting to control everyone. And they don’t seem to mind if they kill everyone try to achieve that goal. And they all see to be strong on hate It is serious insanity! They seem to think hate will serve their purposes. What FOOLS, Hate will not do that.
Posted by Keith on Dec 4, 2004 at 7:30 AM Palestine,Eygpht,Jordan,Labenon, --america provided military and support toisrael,to bomb the hell out of the civilian population.---there was no oil interest.I wish americans would read all about the USS Liberty and King David bombings--Israel hidden killings.Before anyone starts to blame the USA thirst for oil,check out the reason why the USA media-supports the war.--simple----all owners linked to Israel.The war in Iraq would have ended along time ago.How many drones in USA know what mandate AIPAC has for Israel and why is Israel protected by each politician.Why is it a crime to call Israelies--thugs and killers and most of all--leeches?
Ask Senator Mc Cain-why his daddy covered up the killings.
Want to control a country---allow the media to be bought out by one sinister group and pack the the government with the same.
http://www.libertyforum.org/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=news_members&Number= =293014609
please save & pass it around--
Posted by GEORGE on Dec 4, 2004 at 7:56 AM Merry Christmas season to you also, geo1671!
I’ve not been ignoring your posts and ideas in this thread. Like I said to Puckatawk, the provably true facts behind all of the collusion and conspiracies between the crooked politicians and their cronies will remain hidden, with no way for us ordinary citizens to force them to tell the truth, until after the standing governments of America and Israel become either overthrown by their own military leaders or defeated in the looming World War Three.
As it is in America, Israel and most of the powerful nations in the world, the Zionist Jews have control over the Mass News media, and so they have control over the thinking of the ordinary citizens (the “masses of asses,” as the politicians consider us). And so, most of the people believe “the big lies” that are repeated ad nauseum in the newspapers, on television and over the radio, and they are conditioned to ridicule and ignore everything they hear or read from “alternative” sources.
It was exactly this same way in Germany while the Nazi Party was in power and in the Soviet Union while the Stalinists were in power.
History proves that the truth will out, but also that it usually comes out too late to stop ongoing conspiracies within the standing governments.
__________________
“The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them. In nationalist thought there are facts which are both true and untrue, known and unknown. A known fact may be so unbearable that it is habitually pushed aside and not allowed to enter into logical processes, or on the other hand it may enter into every calculation and yet never be admitted as a fact, even in one’s own mind.” (George Orwell: Notes on Nationalism, 1945)
Posted by GEORGE on Dec 4, 2004 at 8:24 AM well how about I dont give a fuck what started the war, i know it was a combination of alot of things...oil..greed....politics...terrorism
WHATEVER
i dont think there is a reason that justifies
all the death..i understand why some people feel the war is nessacary but there should be a line that is drawn because if not wont this go on forever? i still dont see what this is fixing…
Posted by Crystal on Dec 4, 2004 at 11:58 AM Crystal--This theft and killing will go on for ever.People who don’t care what started it-is America’s number one problem.
“Pull a good natured dog’s tail long enough it will bite you”.
When we realize that Arabs are nice good natured people--then there is hope. They have suffered for thousands of years,by invaders.To end the killing----Israel must be removed from the middle-east and zionists in America be linched!
Posted by Frank Zappa on Dec 4, 2004 at 12:31 PM Wow: Honest to GOD dialogue!!!
Can we get this across the court a few times?
Posted by Keith on Dec 4, 2004 at 6:20 PM First things first.. How would the Businesses own me in an Anarco-Capitalist Society.. Businesses would be competing so much that there would be no reason to own people Businesses would HAVE to make them happy to work there. Your Also saying that Democracy is good.. When the Majority of the People can Oppress the Minority is UNTHINKABLE but wait it does happen.. TGNP Your saying that people are in an Absolute need for the government when in fact you don’t, I’m sure that you enjoy paying an Income “Tax”, The Term tax in my definition would be, Government Stealing your money and making a word to justify it
Yeah What i am saying is Anarchy, If i had the choice of living in America or a Private Island, I would take the Private island
Isra, I will say this once again.. I AM AGAINST THE GOD DAMN SLAUGHTER THAT THE US IS COMMITTING IN IRAQ, i will say this again, War or the US’s every 10 year policy we have to destory some little country to “Flex” our military might… right..
The Arab Nation doesn’t hate American Freedom, They just hate the Policies of a Corrupt Government…
Name me a Country were the Government is not corrupt…
As i have also said.. I really don’t like the US Policy of “Aid” to countries that don’t need it, Isreal, Germany, and Japan are the biggest countries the US gives the most “AID” to
If I could choose to Live in a Democrasy or a Anarco-Capitalist Society I would go with the Capitialistic non corrupt society aka Anarco-Capitalist
Mythic
Posted by Mythic on Dec 5, 2004 at 11:11 AM Btw have any of you noticed that there is no exact body count on the dead.. reason why, US “Mindless” Soldiers are killing Doctors, Journalists, and Clergy.....
Doctors to not count how many Men, women and children my corrupt government has killed
Journalists that put faces behind the numbers
Clergy for opposing the Invasion…
and TGNP what your talking about Businesses are owning our government and would own the people in my society is Called Mercantillism look it up.. It’s what the “Great” Abe Lincoln made
Isra I don’t have a harmful manner at all.
Mythic
Posted by Mythic on Dec 5, 2004 at 11:18 AM There is a nice country that has guts---New Zealand
The prime-minister---she booted the Isralies bastards out ,but first jailed the smuck Russian Mossad killers zionist Hebs.Name me one other country that is not afraid in crossing the jews.Not like in Jesus but Jewus!
These people have no shame.
Posted by Frank Zappa on Dec 5, 2004 at 11:29 AM I for one do not blame the Iraq people for having any hard feelings towards the American goverment.
How can this be a free country if our own soldiers cannot choose whether to go to war and fight, but infact are more or less shipped off, dropped off and left to kill and fight to protect our country? What must our country and people look like to their people? We are over there fighting.I am against this on going war but the thought of ending it brings questions to mind…
If we did bring our soldiers home, would Iraq soldiers then follow us here to finish?
Or would bringing our soldiers home end it all?
How is the best way to make it end?
Posted by Crystal on Dec 5, 2004 at 12:52 PM This thread has got to be almost like preaching to the converted but not quite!
It seems to me that everybody is to swift to blame. To scapegoat, To blame, the American, the Jew, the Arab, the Black, the Anglo. When we allow ourselves to fall victim to this kind of thinking, when we demonize a race, a country, or a people, we fail ourselves. The powers that be love this. It gives them what they want. It gives them our hate freely use for their purposes. Their propaganda machines have an easy time directing it where ever they want. WHO’s THE PUPPETS and WHO’s THE PUPPET MASTERS.
Posted by Keith on Dec 5, 2004 at 10:04 PM Quote-"How is the best way to make it end?”
Simple---- Ban second class hebrew Christianity and make it a world crime to be Jewish.
Not Jesus,it is all about Jewus-- greed killings will never stop.
JEWWATCH.COM
Posted by George Archers on Dec 6, 2004 at 6:00 AM Dear Last Leftist in Zell-land,
I would like to contact you to learn more about your sources of information. I am a journalist.
—Urania
Posted by Robin Jenkins on Dec 10, 2004 at 12:33 PM Urania---no such thing as a leftist or rightist,it is all bull! Just a meaningless title.
FOR ALL THOSE PERSONS WANTING TO KNOW UN-BIASED REPORTING-WHATREALLYHAPPENED.COM
ANTIWAR.COM
INFORMATIONCLEARINGHOUSE.COM
QUOTE;As mentioned in the article, the American media does not show the true chaos occurring in Iraq. Can anyone suggest an honest, non-American media source to turn to?
CHECK OUT THE OTHER BEST SITE AND INPUT--GREAT FOLKS--LIBERTY.COM
Posted by George Archers on Dec 10, 2004 at 2:16 PM Elections in USA are always frauds.Why is it a policy that voters vote be protected.This allows the poli-dicks to cheat.
http://www.libertyforum.org/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=news_members&Number= =293014609
Speaking of cheats and liars ,please take time to check this informative site. Our friend,Israel tried to get USA to nuke a country.Americans are saps!
New Zealand has P.M. guts--We have a Prez. a Bush’el of Shit
Posted by IsraOil on Dec 10, 2004 at 2:28 PM IsraOil - yeh I am on that site too. Informative stuff. Look for Ash
Posted by Asif on Dec 10, 2004 at 2:57 PM OK So We All Hate Each OTHER!
That’s great! We have Something in Common!.
Terroist Hateres, Jew Haters, Talabaan Hater’s
That’s Great: We have Somet-y-hing in Common!So What we need now! ……..
IS A GAME PLAN ??? !!!! # $ @ *Maybe We’re all Certifiable?????
Who’s got a PEN?
Posted by Keith on Dec 10, 2004 at 7:06 PM I guess it is alright for certain privileged class of people to hate others.As those killer Germans or the dirty devil Japs.Sure it is OK for Jewish Hollywood to remind us about the poor fleeing jews and who lost all their gold..
Face the fact,Jews got Germany in a mess and now they got USA in DO-DO.
Below is a good article written in such a way that it does not offend anyone.the way I would of written it would be in a few words-135 troops dead in Nov/04--toooooo Bad,it should have been 135,000
Defeat For an Empireby Robert Jensen
12/09/04 “Fort Worth Star-Telegram”—The United States has lost the war in Iraq, and that’s a good thing.
I don’t mean that the loss of American and Iraqi lives is to be celebrated. The death and destruction are numbingly tragic, and the suffering in Iraq is hard for most of us in the United States to comprehend.
The tragedy is compounded because these deaths haven’t protected Americans or brought freedom to Iraqis. They have come in the quest to extend the American empire in this “new American century.”
So, as a U.S. citizen, I welcome the U.S. defeat for a simple reason: It isn’t the defeat of the United States—its people or their ideals—but of that empire. And it’s essential that the American empire be defeated and dismantled.
The fact that the Bush administration says we are fighting for freedom and democracy (having long ago abandoned fictions about weapons of mass destruction and terrorist ties) does not make it so.
We must look at the reality, no matter how painful. The people of Iraq are better off without Saddam Hussein’s despised regime, but that does not prove our benevolent intentions or guarantee that the United States will work to bring meaningful democracy to Iraq.
In Iraq, the Bush administration invaded not to liberate but to extend and deepen U.S. domination. When Bush said, “We have no territorial ambitions; we don’t seek an empire,” on Nov. 11, 2002, he told a half-truth.
The United States doesn’t want to absorb Iraq or take direct possession of its oil. That’s not the way of empire today; it’s about control over the flow of oil and oil profits, not ownership.
In a world that runs on oil, the nation that controls the flow of oil has great strategic power. U.S. policy-makers want leverage over the economies of competitors—Western Europe, Japan and China—that are more dependent on Middle Eastern oil.
The Bush administration has invested money and lives in making Iraq a platform from which the United States can project power.
That requires not the liberation of Iraq but its subordination. But most Iraqis don’t want to be subordinated, which is why the United States in some sense lost the war on the day it invaded. One lesson of contemporary history is that occupying armies generate resistance that, inevitably, prevails over imperial power.
When we admit defeat and pull out—not if, but when—the fate of Iraqis will depend in part on whether the United States makes good on legal and moral obligations to pay reparations and allows international institutions to aid in creating a truly sovereign Iraq.
We shouldn’t expect politicians to do either without pressure. An anti-empire movement—the joining of anti-war forces with the movement to reject corporate globalization—must create that pressure.
We should all carry a profound sense of sadness at where decisions made by U.S. policy-makers—not just the gang in power today but a string of Republican and Democratic administrations—have left us and the Iraqis. But that sadness should not keep us from pursuing the most courageous act of citizenship in the United States today: pledging to dismantle the American empire.
The planet’s resources do not belong to the United States. The century is not America’s. We own neither the world nor time. And if we don’t give up the quest—if we don’t find our place in the world instead of on top of the world—there is little hope for a safe, sane and sustainable future.
Posted by IsraOil on Dec 10, 2004 at 9:59 PM You hollow hippie-spawn should be shipped off to these squatting, flea-bitten sodomites you so venerate. Patting one another on the back on the internet over how superior and humanistic you are to the “imperialists” is pathetic at best.
Get a clue. Or a woman. Well, neither seems likely.
Posted by Shem et Duat on Dec 11, 2004 at 1:57 AM Posted by IsraOil on December 10, 2004 at 10:59 PM
I had a beer or two: But I read your post & I ---weep-.
seems we got to get over the “ Weeping and Wailing And Knashing of Teeth” before we can hope to achieve. Just seems so much blood on the floor. I choke,,,,,
Posted by Keith on Dec 11, 2004 at 2:02 AM http://justworldnews.org/archives/001029.html
We have forgotten about Fallajuh clean-up and for those so-called good americans-there is none!
http://www.antiwar.com/blog/index.php?id=P1529
Everyone should look at it, though, because this is the result of the US military’s Fallujah Solution---mass murder!.
Quotes taken :(for those Good Christian Americans,too busy reading their holy bible))
“That picture, and the accompanying story describing how dogs eating corpses has created a rabies threat in Fallujah, is horrifying enough, but now we have Dahr Jamail’s gallery of photos from Fallujah. I’m just going to quote Helena’s reaction to viewing them and ask everyone to read her post before viewing the album.I’m weeping inside of me. What can we do about this? How can we explain to that majority of US citizens that seems still to support this war the depths of depravity to which it has led?”
I can’t believe,there is still Stupid americans,that can’t see themselves as monesters,created by the Jewish media. HOLLOW?
Dr. Frankenstien,’s creation lives--in washington--BUSH.
Those crazy GI snippers are coming back to USA---!All FUCKED-UP creeps ready and etching to kill.Time to build more prisons--put them and all those zionist pigs together.
To save prison space I suggest :
WE SEND THOSE (Washington) RUSSIAN JEWS BACK TO RUSSIA*-and BUSH-EL Of SH!T
Posted by IsraOil on Dec 11, 2004 at 7:40 AM IsaraOil-
That was a good article and its very right, I myself am very ashamed of some of the choices that our Amercian goverment has made and continues making and i dont think we should have the right to dictate the Iraqi peoples freedom and the killing has got to stop becuase its not doing anyone any good.except making amercians look like slaughters…KEITH
I dont hate anybody, i just hate the war and i hate the fact that in this day and age there is SO MUCH HATE over stupid shit.shem-
who r u calling a hippie?
having an opinion over this disgusting war and sharing it over the net doesnt make anyone a hippie.... why are u reading the postings if u think its so lame…
sounds like ur the one who needs a woman…
Posted by Crystal on Dec 11, 2004 at 11:38 AM Attn Urania:
Info re Schwimmer-Nimrodi-Kimche office in London can be found in the latter chapters of “Nest of Spies” by Amir Taheri."Profits of War” by Ari Ben-Menashe & Victor Ostrovsky’s two books on Mossad(particularly the second one), “Israel’s Global Reach”, whose author slips my mind at the moment, all go into some detail on the arms for Khomeini network.
Info re Zionist manipulation of US-British immigration policies in 30s-40s, as well as Zionist takeover of postwar European refugee camps in “From Haven to Conquest” by W. Khalidi
Allegations regarding Hank Greenspun & mob true but possibly unprovable.
Patrick Seale’s books, “Asad of Syria” and “Abu Nidal” contain interesting hints re 1975 assassination of Saudi King Faisal, the true story of Saddam’s 1979 takover in Iraq and why the West backed him (also in “Saddam Hussein: the Politics of Revenge” by Said K Arburish), aspects of US-Israeli dirty business in Syria and Lebanon which were “under-reported” at the time.
Milton Viorst’s “Sand Castles” is interesting regarding how Saddam was manpulated, particularly in 1990, though Viorst doesn’t name sources."Veil" by Bob Woodward illustrates how CIA Director Casey ran amok in the 1980s, but Woodward seems to have gained access by promising not to go into certain areas too deeply, particularly Middle Eastern areas.Everyone who officially investigated Iran-Contra seems to have made the same promise…
Most of the other stuff can probably be found on the web.Ask for specifics and I’ll try to find a web address.
Posted by Last Leftist in Zell-land on Dec 14, 2004 at 2:43 PM Yoh! Urania & Zell-land
I to find Zell-land’s sources of interest!“Isreal’s Global Reach”
Arms Sales As Diplomacy
By Aaron S. KliemanYoh ! Crystal I was not singling you out.
I address the thought of all who have posted here.
This thread has attracted many Bee’s and also a few flies.
Seems everybody has his AXE to grind..
Some seem ready to grind it with words, some would seem to rather use an axe.Yet the thread has endured I wonder why?
We have got tget over this VIRUS hate, it’s worse than HIV>
Posted by Keith on Dec 14, 2004 at 4:44 PM For a land that is teeming with “sodomites”, as Shem would have it, Iraq had a remarkably low rate of HIV/AIDS, one of the lowest in the world, if memory serves. Now that Iraq has been opened up to Iran’s heroin merchants (thanks to the Coalition) that AIDS rate will certainly skyrocket. The heroin trade is another little common thread that links the CIA, Pakistan’s intelligence services, Iran’s wealthy holymen and Osama Bin Laden.
In one of Andrew Sullivan’s recent cheerleading screeds for the war in Iraq called, “Iraq’s Bright Spots”, he applauds the fact that the US finally seems to have learned one of the valuable imperial lessons which our English betters have to teach us - “divide and rule”. I kid you not, he is actually citing the incipient civil war in Iraq as a “bright spot”.
I had thought that it was a common consensus that the British and French made a huge error in trying to re-colonize the liberated territories of the Ottoman Empire.Now the war supporters are reviving the most discredited slogans of that era.When are we going to hear “Empire on the cheap”, I wonder?
It now seems to me that divide and rule was exactly the plan from the start of operation Iraqi freedom, and Bush’s henchmen have done such an amazingly good job at dividing Iraq that they have made it totally ungovernable for decades to come.Before they execute Saddam they should give some serious thought to turning the country back over to him. That’s not a cheerful prospect even for a Ba’thist sympathizer like me, but who can restore Iraq’s integrity at this point?
Posted by Left in Zellandia on Dec 15, 2004 at 6:34 PM HOW MANY FOLKS KNOW THAT THE FUCKED UP BRITS AIR BOMBED GERMANY CITIES BEFORE THE GERMANS RETALITATED ON LONDON.HOW ABOUT THE 32,000 SEA MINES SCATTERED ALONG THE GERMAN COAST BY THE SAME ASS-HOLE BRITS? ALONG WITH USA DOLLARS.
SEEMS OTHER 3RD WORLD COUNTRIES KNOW HISTORY BETTER THEN WE DO!
**President Yawar, a Sunni tribal chief, said that Iraqis yearned for strong leadership in the current turmoil. He warned: “This could create an environment in which an Iraqi Hitler could emerge like the one created by the defeat of Germany and the humiliation of Germans in World War One."**
LET US HOPE MORE USA AND BRITS FIND A RESTING PLACE IN IRAQ--10 FEET UNDER
Posted by FRANK ZAPPA on Dec 16, 2004 at 5:01 AM DO you religious people know that from the creation of religions, 8 billion people have been killed in religious war among their followers. Don’t you fool religious fenatic people think it is enough??. How far down in history you want to be stuppid and beilive in Mohammad, Moses or Jusus. Live us alone dummies.
Posted by Ardeshir Irani on Dec 16, 2004 at 10:21 AM Reading Rashid Khalidi`s “ Historic Lesson “ I learnes to understand better what is going on in the Middle - East and Israel - Palatine conflict. Thanks!
Posted by Harry Gries on Dec 18, 2004 at 11:10 AM http://www.ogrish.com/archives/war/index.html
now please compare the content and the number of u.s videos to the allah videos.
you will notice that there is much more videos from allah than the u.s.
you will also notice that the allah videos are much more graphic. This is because they find pleasure in doing this. Who ever has posted here and is a believer of allah is either doing this or will be doing this too.look at the terrorist videos, they even play songs about allah in there videos while killing people. This is basically life in the middle east for them. While we work our asses off they try to make low budget music videos of people they have kidnapped , tortured and killed.
So dont try to post a pathetic fishing for help/trying to make the u.s look bad article without even thinking about why the u.s is in your piece of shit country.
Posted by ALLAHEQUALSDEATH on Jan 21, 2005 at 2:05 PM To ALLAHEQUALSDEATH
to quote: “..that there is much more videos from allah than the u.s.”
Oh dear. Someone with your education should be castrated to help the human gene pool.
1 - Allah never made those videos
2 - regardless of whether its about God or Money or Power, in terms of numbers killed your US scum have killed 100,000 more in the last two years.
Go back to reading comics and playing with yourself. Thats about as high as your IQ seems to go.
Posted by Asif on Jan 21, 2005 at 3:19 PM And burn this iamge in your heads. This is the price of bush’s ‘freedom’.. 100,000 dead..
http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/picture_gallery/05/middle_east_shooting_ _in_tal_afar/img/3.jpg
Posted by Asif on Jan 21, 2005 at 3:44 PM Asif I believe that the web site to the picture you want seen has changed to:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/picture_gallery/05/middle_east_shooting_in n_tal_afar/html/3.stmI could find nothing on the site you gave.
Please correct me if I am wrong
Posted by Keith on Jan 21, 2005 at 4:26 PM We stole a peaceful country for them and now they want the world.--IsraOil
Iran is next---blood bath is yet to come
http://www.antiwar.com/lobe/?articleid=4522
Posted by FRANK ZAPPA on Jan 22, 2005 at 5:30 AM those pictures at that website given above are awful! those asshole u.s. soldiers probably did it on purpose! how can you shoot a mother and father (civilians) driving with their kids in the car?
“unfortunate mistake”? what the fuck ever! that is why i hate war! those poor children....
Posted by Crystal on Jan 23, 2005 at 11:20 AM Crystal honey-I suggest you get to see the documentary called--Hidden war of desert storm.
In 2 days 182,000 Iraqs were killed--children, women and men on the highway of death.The UN give Saddam 6 months to leave Kuwaite, America waited until the Highway of Death was full---want to see death--get a copy.Powell was one of the killers and a host of the willing--even Canada.i guess when it is a child covered in someone elses blood upsets you---you have seen nothing lady!
Posted by IsraOil on Jan 23, 2005 at 2:47 PM The war in Iraq is not a war for money or against Islam. The war is costing the US billions more dollars than we could ever hope to extract from Iraq, barring the actually seizure of all oil assets in the country. Great efforts are being made to preserrve civilian life, and if you doubt the attitude of Iraqis, look how many showed up to vote. They want democracy and they are willing to make it work.
One of my best friends growing up was Muslim, and I have interacted with--and thoroughly enjoyed talking to--many Muslims since coming to school. The misguided interpretation of Islam offered by the terrorists does injustice to the people of the faith. Do not lend them credibility by supporting their aims in Iraq.
God does favor the oppressed, which is why Saddam had to go and the rulers of so many of his neighbors still must. It is true that the US does not have a perfect record in the region; many of our Cold War sins are coming back to haunt us. The past is done, however; judge us by our current undertakings and the results of our actions. I believe that the Middle East will, in our lifetimes, be a radically different place. The war for its freedom cannot be fought on all fronts at once. It will be a slow fight, but one that can be won--mostly from the inside--if the Muslim of the land stop conflating the perversions of Islam with Its true nature and the lies of their domestic oppressors with the truth about the outside world.
We won in Fallujah, and we will win every battle form now on. This is a fact. People talk about Vietnam and how America can be beaten. Well, America may not be invincible, but I honestly believe the majority of Iraqis--though maybe not enthusiastic aobut US forces in their country--know that stability will come no other way.
Posted by The Raj on Feb 1, 2005 at 6:07 PM Raji---youmust have been watching CNN-fool!
Most of the Iraqies are on Food tickets--unemployed.Notice most on the line were women.If you did not vote,your food tickets for this year would not be re-issued. Some democracy..
Saddam was a stoog for USA-how you forget the USA’s hand in this dirty afair-over 60 years.Give it time---Another Saddam is lirking-Alllawi.Recall,he took his pistol and shot 6 prisoners-just a few months ago--hope your friend gets the same treatment--with the help of Americans.-Democracy--Gun to the head--blind folded!
Posted by IsraOil on Feb 2, 2005 at 5:47 AM i wanted history and all i got was political adgenda.
thanks
Posted by Brian on Feb 28, 2005 at 11:49 AM Brian--history is always reported in the interests of the victor.You will never get truth from our major jewish news media or history books.Start by reading on the web, USA LIBERTY KILLINGS by that shittie little country called Israel.
Let us know -why it was not taught in history 101 and why Israel was not punished?
Unless you are interested in other history affairs-as in rock formations then your on the wrong wave length!
Posted by George Archers on Mar 3, 2005 at 9:58 PM very informative woohoo. Thanks for that. let us know when you need the nappy changed
Posted by Ash on Apr 12, 2005 at 6:21 PM I find a lot of this interesting or the fact that it is not interesting is interesting I should say.
A lot of US soldiers dying to save people who were opressed and the answer is a whole bunch of crap about “Blame the Jews”
As far as I’m concerned, the people who are fighting the US troops are the people that didn’t have it so bad when Saddam was in power. The reason they didn’t have it so bad is because they kept their mouth shut when the neighbour across the street was being tortured because he didn’t like Saddam. If these cowards are the ones fighting against US troops and even if they make up the majority of Iraq then let them die when the bombs hit. You don’t deserve the freedom that is being fought for anyway.
You claim to be all powerful muslums who stand up and fight a great opressor but you turned a blind eye for your brothers when they were being killed because you were too afraid to stand up to Saddams men.
To shed even more light on the situation. The people that volunteer to join the Iraqi National guard do so under almost certain death to themselves and family if the piece of shit terrorists find out where they live. Terrorists either get shot in a gunfight or get put in jail if they are caught by the Americans. Based on that, who are the brave Muslums?
Posted by Straka on Apr 26, 2005 at 7:00 PM I PRAY TO THE GOD OF ALL THE GODS TO HELP US, THE ONES WHO ARE BEING LIED TO IN EVERY COUNTRY, TO FIND THE TRUTH ABOUT ALL THAT WE EITHER SEEK OR DO NOT SEEK, BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE TO STOP THE FINAL WORLD DOMINATION ATTEMPTS FROM OCCURING. THEY, THE LYING DOGS WHO RUN THINGS BEHIND THE SCENES, HAVE TRIED FOR CENTURIES TO RUIN GOD’S PLAN & ENSLAVE US, BUT IT IS ALMOST OVER FOR THEIR REALM OF DECEIPT. GOD BLESS & PROTECT ALL OF US WHO ARE CALLED BY HIM AND ARE IN THE PATH OF THIS KNOWLEDGE &/OR POST. PEACE.
Posted by MJ Fayzada on Apr 26, 2005 at 11:51 PM FOOLS ALL OF YOU.
$325million USA secretly given to Russia in 1915 to continue the war I.And whom benifited and the prize was middle-east.Homeland for the jews. The whole lot of killings for the jews.Please pass it on and wonder why it has been kept a secret for 90 years.MAKE IT A PUNISHABLE CRIME--JEWS STAY OUT OF POLITICS and ARMS BUSINESS!
http://www.antiwar.com/orig/horton.php?articleid=5711
QUOTE
The Russians in particular had been devastated, many of their soldiers were without weapons, and their luck on the battlefield was running out. The commanding generals were so incompetent that Czar Nicholas II left the capital to lead the war from the front. What little existed of a modern economy was being ruined. Primarily due to his refusal to withdraw from the war, Nicholas II was deposed in a popular uprising on March 15, 1917. As soon as the U.S. Congress declared war less than a month later, Wilson began applying diplomatic pressure and paid the Russians $325 million to continue the fight. An Anglophile to the core, Wilson didn’t care about the fate of the Russians. His concern was in keeping German forces split along two fronts. The payoff worked: Russia’s provisional prime minister Aleksandr Kerensky kept the Russians involved in the war.Finally, on their fourth try, Vladimir Ilyich Lenin and his sidekick Leon Trotsky seized power. As Powell says in the book,
“If Russia’s Provisional Government had quit the war and negotiated peace with Germany in early 1917, we might never had heard of Lenin. He would have returned home to find Russians celebrating the end of the war. Soldiers would have been returning home and the process of reviving the economy would have begun ... Finally of course, the Czar was gone, and the Russian army would have been there to defend the Provisional Government, virtually ruling out prospects for a Bolshevik coup.
Alexander Kerensky and some others in the Provisional Government wanted Russia to stay in the war, and maybe they would have prevailed if they had decided on their own. But relentless diplomatic pressure from Britain and France, and diplomatic pressure and bribes from Woodrow Wilson, helped assure that the virtually bankrupt Provisional Government would stay in the war.”
Wilson’s intervention led to the creation of the Soviet Union, the Cheka, KGB, Red Terror and Operation Keelhaul. Because of him, Joseph Stalin inherited a dictatorship; next came Lend-Lease, the Gulag Archipelago, Cold War, nuclear arms race, Korean and Vietnam wars, the Contra “freedom fighters,” and the Afghan Mujahidin.
Posted by George Archers on Apr 27, 2005 at 4:30 AM MJ Fayzada, I feel sorry for you. Both for not having lower case letters on your keyboard and that you’ve been spoon fed a fanatical way of life.
I read somewhere that Allah will destroy the US because Allah favours those who are oppressed. Well, in my opinion, Allah sent the US to Iraq to help those being oppressed. Allah saw Iraqi’s standing around allowing things to happen to fellow Iraqi’s for the sake of saving their own skins. If you think for a second that Allah or anyone’s god favours people turning a blind eye to a neighbour getting their hands cut off just so they can go on pretending it isn’t happen then you are fooling yourself.
Keep making roadside bombs. It probably feels really good pretending that your are leading the rightful life because it would be far too hard to admit that Iraqi’s walking around with their hands over their eyes to save their own skins is what caused all this in the first place. Hey, it’s not you though is it. It’s the horrible Jews *gasp*.
Posted by straka on Apr 27, 2005 at 6:29 PM straka
Thanks for your very informative disinformation. A lot of US soldiers are dying because:
A: they are after oil, or their leadership is and have been for decades – see PNAC plotting by wolfowitz, cheney and ofcourse bush.
B: Because jewish interests are threatened by anyone who has power apart from them in the middle east and the fact that America is owned by the jews is a fundamental reason for america’s involvement also. Let me remind you of a little quote:
“I want to tell you something very clear, don’t worry about American pressure on Israel, we, the Jewish people control America, and the Americans know it.”
Ariel Sharon to Shimon Peres, October 3rd, 2001, as reported on Kol Yisrael radio.
How does it feel to be their lapdogs?
And finally
C: The chriSTAIN Zionists and the jewish Zionists share a common goal to knock down the Temple Mount Mosque because according to their distorted scriptures the coming of the messiah will only be set about when the mosque is demolished and the jewish 3rd temple built. However, it has not occurred to these idiots that the situation cannot be artificially created to fulfill prophesy, it has to happen naturally. Any interference would be an insult to any deity because He does not need mere mortals to create a situation for his return. Any action such as this is a horse and carrot scenario and only insulting to the ‘Messiah’. However, the jews and chriSTAINs work together even though they hate each other anyway, because they have a perceived common enemy, that being Muslims.
In short, these three reasons are inextricably linked thanks to ariel Sharon and bush’s cabals. They work in partnership, more like strange bedfellows and will only set about war in the middle east as we all know they are the REAL terrorists.
Now on to your comment about cowards. Tell me who is the coward when you have a huge bomb and your flying miles about a target (which is more often of not a family) then to drop bombs on them. Who is the hero?? Some GI idiot who cant spell his name with a M16 in his hand? Or someone who is FREEDOM fighting and willing to die for his cause knowing he is fighting overwhelming odds? I would elect the latter. The latter is the Iraqi freedom fighter. The person(s) you berate for simply wanting to get the American scum out of their country after they lied so many times about their reason for war.
Yes I agree that Saddam was a tyrant. Yes I agree that he had to go. But your little guys supported his move into power and funded it. Your guys paid for Osama Bin Laden to become what he is (or is allegedly) and it was your people who supported Noriega before you decided all three were enemies (when they stopped listening to you). Your country has been the root cause of all the pain in the world. The sooner you get your sorry ass in order and start reading the right things, the better.
Let me remind you of another gem of a quote:
“The greatest crime since World War II has been U.S. foreign policy.”
--Ramsey Clark [Former U.S. Attorney General under President Lyndon Johnson]
Posted by Asif on Apr 28, 2005 at 12:27 AM part 2 straka :
Now on to your response to MJ Fayzada. You read somewhere what?? To quote you:
“I read somewhere that Allah will destroy the US because Allah favours those who are oppressed.”
Damn, was the US around 1400 years+ ago when the Quran was written. Since the Quran was the word of God, you think he had America in mind? Oh hang on, Allah favours those who are oppressed?
Have a think about the reasoning here. If you’re an aggressor and your oppressing some group out there. Who the hell do you think Allah/God will support? Have you looked up the meaning of ‘oppressed’?
Let me help you out as you obviously do not have the capacity.
“oppressed’ - To keep down by severe and unjust use of force or authority
Come on then. If, going on your statement (which is quite true by the way) that the US is oppressing a nation, who do you think the God is going to support? Nope, you don’t need an IQ over 25 to work this baby out. Come on..fill us in.
You stakypoos are the one who is misled, or you are the one providing misinformation. You are either a sheep or a jew shill. Either way, I would hire you to wipe my ass.
Posted by Asif on Apr 28, 2005 at 12:28 AM Seems people forget that Saddam was a Brit-Yank stooge for along time-trained to kill by them. Speaking of torture,why not recall what the jews have done to the arabs for over 100 years and the Americans.Speaking of death and killings---how about the 100,000 Iraq recent deaths or the 285’000 in the gulf war.Yah!-bombing from 32,000 feet and killing is ok to the uninformed idiots.
I suggest all get to see--The Hidden War of Desert Storm---talk about mass killings and lies--the jews take the prize!
Posted by George Archers on Apr 28, 2005 at 3:52 AM How about this for a compromise: Tell the Muslim nations to leave Israel alone, quit crying for death to America, quit setting off car bombs and leave those people who would like to convert to Christianity do so. In exchange, the United States pulls out of Iraq.
Posted by Talmo on May 9, 2005 at 2:02 PM Someone (Talmo?) suggests that as the price of the USA leaving Iraq alone, the Muslims must (among other things) leave Israel alone. This person just doesn’t get it - the reason the Muslims denounce Israel is because Israel is STEALING Palestinian land which is a great injustice to the Palestinians as well as all Muslims, indeed all fair-minded people. Can anyone be so dense as to not see that what the “settlers” are doing is disenfranchising the Palestinians of their own birthright land. To suggest that the Israelis “be left alone” is to suggest that they be allowed to keep all of this ill-gotten territory and, indeed be allowed to steal even more. It is like a thief, caught with his hand in your pocket, tells you shut-up and let him work in peace. The whole world understands what I am saying except the red-state fools.
Richard Vajs
Posted by richard vajs on May 9, 2005 at 3:28 PM -
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