This past February, Ohio Secretary of State Ken Blackwell told the president of the State Senate, “The possibility of a close election with punch cards as the state’s primary voting device invites a Florida-like calamity.” Blackwell, co-chair of Bush-Cheney reelection campaign, wasn’t warning his fellow Republican of disaster; he was boasting of an opportunity to deliver Ohio for Team Bush no… return to article
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Reader Comments (130)Page 1 of 1 pagesHo Hum you sound just like Jesse Jackson trying to extort money for alleged racism. I hope the ACLU ( a communist lawyers union) comes to your rescue. When you don’t like something you can always cry racism like crying wolf. Bush won get over it.
Posted by redstate on Nov 14, 2004 at 7:18 PM Haha, nice try, redstate, but you really suck at being a troll.
Posted by Mikhail Capone on Nov 14, 2004 at 8:04 PM Bush won an honest election. He is the President and you are just cryer (probably hired to cry).
You should be proud of free and fair elections in the U.S.
If you do not like it you can always move to North Korea to experience “free” elections.
Posted by klement danda on Nov 14, 2004 at 8:08 PM I may be a “troll” in your distinguished eyes but I am right.
Posted by redstate on Nov 14, 2004 at 8:41 PM The number of emotionally tinged reactions
to articles in “In These Times” seems to increase.
A sad things to read generalizing reactions to an
analysis focussing on details and drawing conclusions. If the former were falsified: good, one would be content.
People guided by directed sentiment take their time to make their voice be heard. Communication becomes a matter of reflexes somehow hammered into people. The reasoning right (as the other side of the unreasoning one) will probably come up with some proposal of a law against dissent in the U.S.A. in some time.
Posted by qedchris on Nov 14, 2004 at 9:14 PM You people never cease to amaze me. Second grade rhetoric and content-free chest-thumping posts.
Hitler was elected too, y’know. Democracy is the rule of the majority, and once upon a time the majority believed that the earth was flat. Bush being elected - if he was really elected without the help of Diebold and his brother and the conservative big media, which in itself is pretty uncertain, as the elections in the US are some of the less transparent and most crappily organized in the western world - doesn’t mean that he’s right in anything. It just means that there are a lot of fools out there.
Posted by Mikhail Capone on Nov 14, 2004 at 9:16 PM Mikhail Capone, so now you are saying that the U.S. democracy over 200 years old is equal to Hitler’s Nazism. Shame on you and all the other “Democrats” who are the same as you!!!! You are a traitor. That’s all I can say at this moment. My blood is boiling.
Posted by klement danda on Nov 14, 2004 at 9:39 PM Hey Klement, wouldnt it be nice if your guy could just win an election without ANY worry of controversy, uncounted or thrown out votes??? Funny how that’s worked out for you!! Move over into the realm of reality with the other half of the nation who did not vote for bush.
Posted by teresa on Nov 14, 2004 at 9:53 PM Frankly, this story doesn’t surpise me (either anecdotally) or from a “conspiratorial” view.
After the Florida-supreme court mess of 2000, we learned that our electoral process is ripe for deceptive “wins”.Until we have a verifiable paper trail, where 10% of the ballots are audited independently to assure that each ballot matches a ballot of the same identification, held in separate box, we can not be sure of a true vote count.
I would also suggest that the system of an electoral college also makes cheating alot easier than a “real” vote count.
Corrupting the most vulnerable swing state is easier than corrupting an audited popular vote count.
Posted by Robin on Nov 14, 2004 at 9:59 PM Klement, your reading comprehension skills need a serious upgrade. Please work on it and then we’ll talk.
Posted by Mikhail Capone on Nov 14, 2004 at 10:10 PM A day will come when a Democrat wins the presidential election by a slim margin in a single swing state turned blue and the Secretary of State by chance will be a Democrat following the Kate Harris’ playbook.
You’ll see Repulicans kicking the doors down crying fowl and demanding legitimate recounts. Proof that what goes around comes around.
Posted by Gus on Nov 14, 2004 at 10:20 PM Democrats will NEVER win any elections outside of maybe a few blue states ie California, New York. Dems will never win until they get rid of the far left ideology. All the elections from 1994 to present have proven dems are a dying party.
Posted by redstate on Nov 14, 2004 at 11:12 PM Redstate, what are you talking about? Far left ideology? Man, you really need some perspective. All mainstream politics in the US are either center-right or right ever since the 60s. Nixon was to the left of Bill Clinton and you guys have pretty much turned your back on all the social progress that you made during the New Deal era.
Posted by Mikhail Capone on Nov 14, 2004 at 11:48 PM A DAY IN THE LIFE OF JOE REPUBLICAN
Joe gets up at 6 a.m. and fills his coffeepot with water to prepare his morning coffee. The water is clean and good because some tree-hugging liberal fought for minimum water-quality standards. With his first swallow of coffee, he takes his daily medication. His medications are safe to take because some stupid “socialist” liberal fought to insure their safety and that they work as advertised.
All but $10 of his medications are paid for by his employer’s medical plan because some liberal union workers fought their employers for paid medical insurance—now Joe gets it, too. He prepares his morning breakfast, bacon and eggs. Joe’s bacon is safe to eat because some girly-man liberal fought for laws to regulate the meat packing industry.
In the morning shower, Joe reaches for his shampoo. His bottle is properly labeled with each ingredient and its amount in the total contents because some crybaby liberal fought for his right to know what he was putting on his body and how much it contained. Joe dresses, walks outside and takes a deep breath. The air he breathes is clean because some environmentalist wacko liberal fought for laws to stop industries from polluting our air. He walks to the subway station for his government-subsidized ride to work. It saves him considerable money in parking and transportation fees because s! ome fancy-pants liberal fought for affordable public transportation, which gives everyone the opportunity to be a contributor. Joe begins his work day.He has a good job with excellent pay, medical benefits, retirement, paid holidays and vacation because some lazy liberal union members fought and died for these working standards. Joe’s employer pays these standards because Joe’s employer doesn’t want his employees to call the union. If Joe is hurt on the job or becomes unemployed, he’ll get a worker compensation or unemployment check because some stupid liberal didn’t think he should lose his home because of his temporary misfortune. Its noontime and Joe needs to make a bank deposit so he can pay some bills. Joe’s deposit is federally insured by the FOLIC because some godless liberal wanted to protect Joe’s money from unscrupulous bankers who ruined the banking system before the Great Depression. Joe has to pay his Fannie Mae-underwritten mortgage and his below-market federal student loan because some elitist liberal decided that Joe and the government would be better off if he were educated and earned more money over his lifetime. Joe is home from work. He plans to visit his father this evening at his farm home in the country. He gets in his car for the drive. His car is among the safest in the world because some America-hating liberal fought for car safety standards. He arrives at his boyhood home. His was the third generation to live in the house financed by Farmers’ Home Administration because bankers didn’t want to make rural loans. The house didn’t have electricity until some big-government liberal stuck his nose where it didn’t belong and demanded rural electrification. He is happy to see his father, who is now retired. His father lives on Social Security and a union pension because some wine-drinking, cheese-eating liberal made sure he could take care of himself so Joe wouldn’t have to. Joe gets back in his car for the ride home, and turns on a radio talk show. The radio host keeps saying that liberals are bad and conservatives are good. He doesn’t mention that the beloved Republicans have fought against every protection and benefit Joe enjoys throughout his day. Joe agrees: “We don’t need those big-government liberals ruining our lives! After all, I’m a self-made man who believes everyone should take care of themselves, just like I have.”
Posted by Steve on Nov 14, 2004 at 11:51 PM If you want to see something scary that usually happens in fascist countries, check this out.
Posted by Mikhail Capone on Nov 14, 2004 at 11:57 PM I never ever said that SOME regulations were bad just a lot of them. You talk about third generation farmers. How about the farms and homes that have to be sold due to excessive taxe and death taxes? How about people that buy land and then can’t do anything with it because of excessive enviornmental regulations. I hate to tell you this but liberals are not the heroes you think they are. For every benefit mentioned there are two that are stupid . Boy how did this country ever get by before the liberals all came to save them. It is Amazing we could even feed themselves before the libs came. Look I am once again not saying all things related to government are bad but can you honestly say that all are good?
Posted by redstate on Nov 15, 2004 at 12:42 AM Federal law guarantees everyone the right to a provisional ballot in the case of their name not appearing on the voter roles on election day. However, in Florida, no such right is protected. Nick Arnold, my friend and an African American, registered to vote two separate times, but was not allowed to even complete a provisional ballot on the grounds that he “had not registered to vote”. I experienced difficulties registering to vote. A few of my friends also did and were ultimately prevented from voting. We all had one thing in common: we registered as independents and/or democrats.-my point? this president will serve two terms having never been legitimately elected
Posted by mikey kettinger on Nov 15, 2004 at 12:54 AM Redstate, nobody wants unnecessary regulations, but what must be realized is that nothing really is “unregulated”. Someone always makes the decisions and has the power. Most times, it’s either the government or big corporations. In some cases, it’s good to leave control to big corporations. But right now they have way too much power, and in many instances their interests conflict with those of the population; would you trust big corporations with the water you drink? the air your breathe? your food? the car you drive (remember the pre-Nader days? not even seat belts in cars)? With healthcare and social programs? Their interest is to make the most money, and to do that they spend as little money and ressources as possible on the actual services that you receive, but you pay a lot anyway.
Posted by Mikhail Capone on Nov 15, 2004 at 2:58 AM For a country that wants to promote democracy around the world you would think the U.S. would be a little more consistent about it home. It’s kind of ironic that the elections in Afghanistan were better run with more international norms observed. Having partisan and ambitious politicians of any party being in charge of election procedures is as crazy as having a patchwork quilt of voting methods, rules and technologies. The entire system is open to abuse by either side. What a waste of the money Congress threw at the problem after the Florida debacle. Lots of other countries based on Federalism have no problems establishing consistent voting systems for national office.
Posted by N.D. on Nov 15, 2004 at 4:03 AM So Blackwell isn;t doing an impartial job, as an Ohioan I feel he should be removed from office. If the votes for Kerry to be president are there - then certainly the signatures to bring him up on misconduct, oversight and willful fraud is plausible.
Or is the TV coming back from commercial?
Posted by SethHubert on Nov 15, 2004 at 4:21 AM Much of the howling about election fraud I took with a grain of salt, or would have, had Greg Palast not already been warning about it weeks ahead of the elections. In fact, Palast, for those who don’t know it, is the one who uncovered the hair-raising scandal in Florida in 2000, but the American media simply hemmed and hawed at his findings. His investigative pieces can be read in the book The Best Democracy Money Can Buy. He did some interesting work notably on Pat Robertson, the Clintons, the energy “crisis” in California, etc… Palast works for the BBC and other British news media, though he is American, from California.
As for this constant “liberal” labelling: It would really be great if some of those freaks on the lunatic fringe would begin defining “liberal.” Or “left-wing” for that matter. The idea in a democracy is to admit competition on the political scene while striking a balance. Too much of one thing can be destructive. As for the left-right business…. well, we have grown beyond that concept by now. It was an old concept going back to the French Revolution, when the more radical Jacobins sat on the left of the National Assembly and the more staid Girondins on the right. The “left” was simply more prepared to change the status quo, e.g. back then in 1791 kill the king and thus push the Revolution into a zone of “no return”. As a parallel, the GOP would like to push America over a certain brink, stuffing the Supreme Court with ultra-conservative justices, rolling back the bill of rights, prohibiting abortion by law, etc… The methods they are using are very much the same ones the Jacobins used: namely instilling fear in society, fear of an external enemy. The Jacobins had one: The crowned heads of Europe and their armies, we, as Americans, don’t. That’s what is amazing. One attack on the WTC and the USA is unravelling all of its own accord. OBL is basically a very sharp customer, and we have fallen into a fabulous trap. He has turned this great country, which had at one time a powerful message of freedom and individualism and reponsibility into a playground bully fueled with billions of tax dollars and the hysterical shrieks of the eternally timorous. The spectacle woiuld be laughable, were it not causing the death of tens of thousands and spreading misery in the world. Just remember, ye proud armchair patriots, that pride comes before the fall.
Posted by Talleyrand on Nov 15, 2004 at 11:23 AM why do you bitch on about Florida? Bush won fair and square this time and you trying to play the race card is pathetic and Jesse Jacksonlike. Bush will not fill SCTUS with right wing ideolouges like clinton did with leftists. Bush will put in place people who can read and enforce the Constitition. What rights have you lost that Bush has taken away??
Liberal- someone who is for high taxes big government, more “social programs” More gun laws (despite what the second ammendment says) more special rights for self described protected peoples. Atrue liberal is anti white male of course! those baaaad white men.
Posted by redstate on Nov 15, 2004 at 5:28 PM Thank you, Greg Palast, for your powerful research and analysis. This kind of patient, persisitant work is crucial to the future of this country (especially because of the inability of the conservative mainstream media to do its job).
An article in USA Today suggests that the results of the election have spurred some soul searching in newsrooms. Perhaps journalists are out of touch with the heartland, it suggests. Could there be a more vapid point? The majority of America does not know the truth about most issues (i.e. that no weapons of mass distruction have been found in Iraq, the lack of ties between Iraq and al Qaeda or the completely-discredited claims of the Swift Boat slanderers) because the conservative mainstream media did not report the truth.
That’s where the soul searching should begin: how can America’s journalists have allowed so many of the country’s citizens to get it so wrong?
Thanks again, Greg Palast, for trying to turn that out around.
Posted by LoneStarLiberal on Nov 15, 2004 at 5:48 PM Liberal: open minded, broadminded, generous, tolerant, freethinking, bountiful, not narrow in opinion or judgement.
I for one am sick and tired of the republican think tank spouting how bad liberals are. What is bad about wanting to protect senior citizens, disabled people, even childrens education? Maybe you cant find anything good to say REDSTATE because you arent good. Go ahead and cling to the idea that this was a fair eletion, its all you got. What you have in fact is a moral victory and that is all. We want to protect democracy, not destroy it. We want fair and honest elections for democrats and republicans alike, not politicians who say that all is fair cause they know whats best for us whether we realize it or not! We lost a lot under the first four year reign and we will continue to lose. We lost American lives you idiot! Course all those Iraqis, they dont really matter to you do they? As many as 100,000 of them. Better them than us huh? You make me sick.
Posted by teresa on Nov 15, 2004 at 6:13 PM there’s a number of problems in palast’s analysis.
first, as in 2000, he is advocating selective recounts, in areas only in which the kerry vote might rise. why not play fair and call for full recounts, allowing the possibility of bush’s vote rising too?
second, for four years people like palast have whined that bush’s failure to secure the popular vote denied his presidency legitimacy. is that arguement to be dumped if that’s what it takes to get a kerry win?
the simple fact is, the whole system is riddled with errors, in blue states and red states. if palast wasn’t so partisan, only crying foul where democrats suffer, i’d give his words a bit more credence. as it is, he’s showing how partisan he is by failing to acknowledge democrat use of similar tactics.
the quote from kerry about disenfranchised voters amuses me - why do democrats only care about disenfranchised voters at election time in a tight race? why don’t they do something about the problem when they can, in the months and years in between elections?
Posted by fmk on Nov 15, 2004 at 6:42 PM Great essay Steve on Nov 14th! Your point is well-made. See “A DAY IN THE LIFE OF JOE REPUBLICAN”.
Posted by gabeap on Nov 15, 2004 at 6:56 PM We did our part here in Michigan. Bush lost by a wide margin in my town. Guess we’ll just become a Province now!
Amerika, Love it, or leave it!
Regards
Posted by BlueDog on Nov 15, 2004 at 8:23 PM you forgot to mention bitchy-mean- self righteous-condecending- did I mention bitch?
yeah your mind is so open that any old b ody came coem along and put whatever crap they want into into it and you’ll accept it as fact.
you mention polititcians who know whar’ts best for us well that is the mark of a liberal pushing the cradle to grave nanny state on us. You should think with your mind and not with parts of your body incapapble of reason. Yes liberals suck and more people learn it every day.
“how can America’s joiurnalist’s allowed so many to get it wrong???? The media is supposed to tell the truth which it rarely does( I don’t believe the liberal media!!) Stop trying to use the media to get your liberal eleected. Was Dan Rather’s blithering idiot actions enough?
Posted by redstate on Nov 15, 2004 at 10:42 PM Redstate,
Take some time to study Bushes Patriot 11 Act.
Now upon reading S. 22, it is clear that the leadership of the Senate is fully aware of the Patriot Act II, and have passed these riders out of their committees into the full bill. It even contains the Our Lady of Peace Act that registers all gun owners. It bans the private sale of all firearms, creates a Federal ballistics database, and much more.
So you can’t blame the Liberals for wanting to take your wife, your kids, your pickup, maybe your dog, but never your guns anymore now can ya?
Nope!
Posted by Steve on Nov 15, 2004 at 10:46 PM ALL I can say to anybody who wants to disarm this country is good luck…and have lots of body bags. And I don’t have a pickup truck you racist liberal
Posted by redstate on Nov 15, 2004 at 10:53 PM fmk:
First, he isn’t selective about the recounts. He advocates counting all of the spoiled votes. As he points out, most of the spoiled votes “happen” to be black; if you find any uncounted white votes I’m sure he’d support counting them as well.Second, the legitimacy challenge wasn’t based just on the loss of the popular vote, it was that in combination with the controversial Supreme Court ruling that seemed to suggest Bush was not a clear winner either popularly or electorally.
Again, you point out Palast only cries foul where Democrats are concerned; however, the Republican transgressions are far more widespread and far less publicized; and apparently racist, which is even more appalling. When the ghost of Jim Crow continues to haunt the electoral system, there is no true democracy.
I partly agree with your last part, but that isn’t an issue, really. Just because our politicians can be lame ducks doesn’t mean that blacks don’t deserve to vote.
Posted by matt on Nov 15, 2004 at 11:13 PM Redstate, don’t forget liberals helped fund and institute the Internet which, I’m told, is the only place beside Fox News where anyone will listen to the vapid and infantile ramblings of woefully misinformed and disingenuous cretins.
Posted by matt on Nov 15, 2004 at 11:40 PM yeah I almost forgot AL Gore developed the internet right so the michael moore fan club can bitch about America and prove what traitors they are. Boy Matt themmis some big word yer usin there what did you learn them at whatever socialist college you went to. Nice try pinko
Posted by redstate on Nov 15, 2004 at 11:48 PM Is it just me, or was Mr. Palast’s article about voter fraud and disenfranchisement? If I read just the letters in response to the article, it is clear to me that many of the letter writers are expressing either their fears of what would happen were the outcome of the election to change, or outrage that Americans can have such passionately held, and diametrically opposed, views.
If a true majority of voters wanted President Bush to enjoy a second term, I have to respect that outcome even if I strongly disagree with that decision. My personal feeling is that most of my fellow Americans have no idea as to how most of our decision makers conduct business once they gain political office and disappear from our view, esconced in the corridors of power, where those with money and influence will have their ear in a way we never will. I also believe that most of our leaders have learned how to appeal to the fears of most voters while supporting policies that do nothing to alleviate said fears, and in some cases, make said fears worse.
If it turns out that either side, Democrat or Republican, engaged in efforts to deny Americans the right to vote, and to have their vote counted, the offending parties have to be held accountable, and results should be made to reflect the true vote count. If the integrity of the elections we conduct in this country can be undermined or brought into question, not only will we lose the republic the Founding Fathers designed for us, but we will lose whatever position of moral authority or influence we have with the rest of the world. I fear we have lost a great deal already.
Posted by David RICE on Nov 16, 2004 at 12:06 AM Talleyrand,
great post. unfortunately those boneheads who voted for W and are ecstatic about their blood bath will never get it.
redstate is a communist. first of all he’s red. and secondly he’s like the KGB spy on these posts. we get it man! you got the propaganda award from the zealots. the word liberal drives thse people mad.
enjoy your retard president as much as you want. you deserve each other.
just leave us alone with your horsecrap.
Posted by jake on Nov 16, 2004 at 12:47 AM It’s interesting how hateful “redstate” became the further I went along in the thread. After he was told to read Patriot Act II which will effectively disarm and or identify all Americans with guns he quickly turned into a vigilante who said he would kill ANYONE who attempted to take his guns away.
It’s really shameful that we have a country that would create a human being that is so fearful.So the woman Theresa is a “bitch”? Why? Because she does not agree with you. How pathetic.
The story about the Life of Joe Republican is brilliant. And I’m a former Republican…but enough is enough. It’s time for Americans to stand up for democracy. If we don’t stand for something we will fall for anything and right now we are falling for fascism friends.
When we have the Purple Heart, the medal with George Washington’s picture on it, and we decide to dishonor a man who earned it because he’s not OUR man, we spit on the founding fathers.
As for the old tired phrases, “tax and spend liberals”, it is the very purpose of government to tax and spend. All Presidents have done it. But for conservatives it’s ok for Halliburton to get a no-bid noncompetitive contract because it’s their guy. It’s WELFARE for the rich but somehow that’s ok.
But God help us, we dare to spend money on the less fortunate, to help a woman in trouble, a family in need, it’s an evil social program. SOCIAL SECURITY IS A SOCIAL PROGRAM. Let’s all refuse this money from a program that was started by that commie bastard Roosevelt. Any takers? I didn’t think so. Why? Because if it puts money in our pocket or in the pocket of the people that we admire it’s ok. But if we help black people or the poor we call it liberal so we can hate it. How hypocritical!
We have high taxes now because Reagan spent more money than we had in the Treasury. That’s what a deficit is. When Clinton was president this country WAS IN THE FRIGGING BLACK because we took in more than what we spent. I thought conservatives could at least add and subtract. And nobody…nobody attacked us in OUR HOUSE. But it seems our enemies don’t respect people they perceive to be thieves and in less than a year we got hit while the folks running the country were still gloating over how they stole the election.
Our dear President was in office for only months when we were attacked by terrorists. Yet we reelected him becasue he said he would protect us after he failed to do so the first time. Is bin Laden smarter than we are? That SOB laughed in our faces with utter disrespect and we reelected the man he embarrassed. Pathetic. We are the laughing stock of the world now but most don’t care because they are duped into thinking that conservatives care about them. News flash…they don’t give a damn about you. If you were Skull and Bones at Yale, if you were elite from Harvard, maybe.
Duped by the illusion. Ignorance is bliss.
The fact is that the last election was between two rich frat brothers from Skull and Bones who were at Yale at the same time. Clinton went to Yale, and Clarence Thomas and George Bush I. Wake up, you guys are fighting over crumbs because of an illusion of choice. Wake Up.
Jefferson said people get the government that they deserve. When 240,000 people lose their jobs in Ohio because we ship the jobs to China and Bush carries the state we are morons in Ohio. So we deserve who we have in the White House. God help us all. Kerry conceded and didn’t stand up for 55 million people who supported him. The heck with him too.
There are 250,000 votes yet to be counted in Ohio between the spoiled chad votes (yes, like Florida) and the second class citizen provisional ballots. The shame of a black man, Blackwell, disenfranchising his own people will be remembered forever and his actions disrespect King and all the others, white and black, who died to make America pass the Voting Rights Act of 1965.
The Bible says “Thou shall not kill” ...period. There is no qualifying sidenote or footnote. I am a pastor and people like “redstate” need our compassion and prayers, for he is frightened beyond reason, even in victory he cannot have peace.
But Jesus was not a conservative. Our Lord was not for the status quo. He fought the system. And looked what happened to HIM.
What is a liberal? People like Martin Luther King who fought for peace and justice. His reward was to be murdered by those who hate. Why do we hate? We hate when we are afraid and we are afraid when we deny the truth and refuse to listen to others. It’s ok to disagree but listen to adversary. I bless my enemies, those who hate me. When I know the election is crooked, I say so without fear.
The election was crooked. But no different than any other. I was a Republican and I wanted to win fair and square. It didn’t happen in Ohio. We are the Romans now.
Posted by swingstate on Nov 16, 2004 at 1:00 AM Redstate you seriously need to calm down and get back on your meds. You obviously are incapable of rational thought. Gee I thought it was just liberals that resorted to name calling. Oh yeah, I did call you an idiot first. Seems I had you pegged just right moron. Seriously get a grip if you can.
Posted by teresa on Nov 16, 2004 at 1:19 AM I don’t understand why when registering to vote you have to declare a party, your system seems highly undemocratic and an invasion of your privacy, it shouldn’t be known anywhere but to yourself who you vote for, and it’s absurd you don’t have a majority vote, it all sounds extremely fishy and I don’t understand that you put up with this kind of nonsense.from where we’ve been watching the whole thing makes the us a laughing stock, where is your pride in safeguarding your precious democracy if you can be held up to scrutiny!
Posted by lowlands on Nov 16, 2004 at 1:40 AM id like to point out quickly that no poor farmer will ever pay death-tax. it only effects those with considerable wealth to tax. i happen to know this because my father, now an estate planner, grew up a poor farmer.
Posted by Daniel on Nov 16, 2004 at 1:58 AM Hey redstate - We’ll leave it for now but call us in 4 years. Maybe you won’t be able to because you’ve been drafted and are having your butt blown away in another war for oil. Maybe you won’t be able to because the air is polluted you can’t breathe. Maybe you won’t be able to because all forms of expression are gone in favor of big brother GOP. Maybe you won’t be able to because someone didn’t like what you did in your bedroom with another consenting adult. Any number of reasons you might not be able to respond. Maybe because you’ve put your money where your mouth is and volunteered for the military. Maybe we’ll be hearing from in you Iraq because you believe it’s important to put your life where your mouth is. Something your charlaton war-criminal fearless leader didn’t do.
Posted by Denis on Nov 16, 2004 at 2:16 AM y’all are just mad that we won’t let you fags marry.I hope ya’ll get AIDs ya bunch of immoral brain dead idiots.I hope you see in 4 years what happens when you try to get another liberal idiot and his bitch wife elected. Bitch about the tax bitch about this bitch about that. What’s the matter ya mad because taxes won’t pay for another abortion mill or gay bar??What a bunch of damn fools you all are. You can all go to hell because that, in the end is where you are going.
Ya know sometimes when I get blue I put in the tape of the WTO in Seattle and I watch the cops beating you commies to pulp and then I feel better.
Posted by redstate on Nov 16, 2004 at 7:52 AM Hey redneck, oh I mean redstate, you guys are the ones who bitch about taxes, remember? You know you come here to this site to troll and pick a fight, but when someone pushes the right buttons you cant take it, you are a fake and a phony. Seems that you and your president have something in commmon. I agree with Denis, why dont you put your money where your mouth is? Go fight someone in Iraq. Do you ever seriously read what you write? You are mentally unbalanced and will probably come unhinged at some point. You cant take the heat, you big whiny baby,and you wouldnt last long in Iraq anyway. When someone pushes the right buttons you react by becoming angry and show your true self. None of us really had to do much for you to show who and what you really are. A bigot, filled with hate and a hypocrit filled with ignorance. I’d feel sorry for you if you werent such an ass.
Posted by teresa on Nov 16, 2004 at 1:51 PM oh waaaa. Go take a midol little girl and maybe that will help with your liberal- feminazi pms. I have done all my physical fighting before you you were born ya little self righteous snot. I revel in your contempt! I would not want to be accepted by a bunch of left wing wackos who push gay “marriage” ’ and push michael moore conspiracy theories about President Bush. You are even worse than wingnuts we had back in the 60’s you are meaner, stupider, and more wacked out. Is this the crap they teach in college nowadays? I wish you pinkos would all move to Canada so we would not have to put up with your constant whining.
Posted by redstate on Nov 16, 2004 at 2:17 PM Rednut, you sure seem to have a problem here. No one agrees with your radical right wing views. And get this, we arent going anywhere. America is ours too whether you like it or not. All you spout here is filled with hatred.Do you honestly think anyone here appreciates your narrow, tiny little view or your sarcasm? Everyone who reads it thinks you’re the wacko. You’ve proven it reapeatedly. And I am not a kid, I am a grown up, with a husband and 4 children. So once again you are wrong. It doesnt surprise me that you “revel in contempt.” Nice. Well good for you cause thats all you get.
Posted by teresa on Nov 16, 2004 at 2:49 PM The reason you list party affiliation when you register to vote is so that you can participate in your parties primaries. In all the states i have lived in, you can register as an independent, but that may mean you cannot participate in primaries. (Note that “crossover” voting in primaries can be quite controversial.)
Have a fun day!
Posted by why on Nov 16, 2004 at 3:05 PM The best thing we can do in response to the vicious hatred espoused by someone like redstate is just ignore him.
His rants make a compelling argument for compassion and tolerance. I want to thank him for exposing just how pervasive ignorance and closed mindedness is right now in America.
Fags, pinkos, bitches, femininazi pms, this is the terminology that his fear of EVERYTHING has brought him too.Truly pathetic, someone not to hate but to pray for. A man totally powerless and hateful without remorse. I suggest we carry on the conversation without him and not respond to his racism. No one else is listening to him, surely not the educated, sophisticated, and wealthy elite that run the Republican party. He speaks for only himself. That is why he spends so much time here.
He adds nothing to the discussion. Let’s move on.
Posted by swingstate on Nov 16, 2004 at 4:20 PM As a newcomer in this realm, I’m glad to find so many interesting comments here. Still, I’d like to remind several posters that “Insults, Not Issues!” is a prime method to confuse and conquer but rarely leads to understanding or effective compromise.
Also, I notice that most posters use at least one personal name (presumably genuine?) while a few hide behind nicknames. What gives?
And lastly, please be aware that, here in Ohio, more family farms have been lost through vertical integration in corporate agribusiness than have been forcibly sold nationwide because of income or estate taxes. This leaves the largest and most heavily subsidized agricultural concerns in charge of our national food supply. Hardly a joking matter, in my opinion.
Posted by Ann Miller on Nov 16, 2004 at 4:53 PM Can any of you tell me why you even bother arguing with this moron?
Posted by Lisa on Nov 16, 2004 at 5:00 PM the reason you all argue is you are trying to convince YOURSELVES that you are right when you are not. If you look at my attacks they are in direct response to your attacks on me -oh open minded caring liberals. I bring out your hypocrisy and it makes you nuts. You are soooo tolerant- of only that which you believe in. So go on with your little love-fest of liberalsm. Right now I gotta go Rush is on and I can’t waste time with you babbling fools. I need to hear the truth…
Posted by redstate on Nov 16, 2004 at 5:53 PM yeah, don’t answer that nazi thug. lets wish him 4 more years of hate and send him to hell thru jesusland.
Posted by sam on Nov 16, 2004 at 5:57 PM Ann, Lisa, & Sam, I do realize that you cant get through to someone who is of the mindset we have seen here. But a part of me thinks we shouldnt ignore it either. I have always thought that ignorance and bigotry should be exposed for what they are, however redstate has done a fine job of that with very little help from me or anyone else. (He is cowardly, so much so that he doesnt even use a name here. I have used my real name.) I guess its kind of like being on the playground as a child and seeing a bully mistreat some other poor child for the way the look or because they were disabled. I could never ignore that then and I still cant.
Teresa
Posted by teresa on Nov 16, 2004 at 6:24 PM Is this guy Redstate serious, I mean a real person? I didn’t think there were people out there that are so blind or ignorant of issues going on around him. Then again, there are the people that voted for the Bush administration. Go figure.
Posted by ryan on Nov 16, 2004 at 7:35 PM “redstate”
Sounds much like an incarnation of “Carl” AKA
“red white and blue” etc.
There just can’t be more like him…If he represents many that voted for Bush…we can be proud to be just the opposite, the poor fool is lost in delusions.
Posted by abs on Nov 16, 2004 at 8:08 PM I choose not to use my name because I choose to remain anonymous.
My anonymity does not make me a coward, so I must respectfully disagree with the characterization. Nor does it diminish my attempts to contribute to the debate.
I would also disagree with the idea that engagaing this hatred, in this forum, has any benefit. On the contrary it is pointless. Keep giving him attention and it encourages further ignorance.
Posted by swingstate on Nov 16, 2004 at 8:44 PM Swingstate I did not mean to make you think I was characterizing you or anyone else here as cowardly other than redstate. I welcome your contributions to the debate. The only point I was making is that we should not ignore the ignorance and hatred he espouses. It is usless to try to engage him in any meaningful conversation as he is not capable of reason. And I dont want to encourage him, only to expose him. As I said earlier though, he’s done that himself anyway.
Posted by teresa on Nov 16, 2004 at 9:03 PM I came here for a few reasons one to expose your blind hatred of red-state America and to rabble rouse a little bit . To me it’s kinda funny the way you all march in lockstep. I am pretty much alone here so who are the bullies?? Ah I love the smell of hypocrisy in the morning. Nobody( myself included) hates gays -really I do think civil unions OK but they should not be allowed to redefine marriage. I don’t hate, blacks, jews etc. But what I really dislike are abunch of libs who jump on me when I say something and classify me as a nazi. I only get mouthy when you do -it’s called self defense. I don’t even hate any of you here. It’s been fun for me-really I wish ya’ll well. Oh an I’ am from the bluest of the blue connecticut but reside for right now in a redstate and no not in jail either smartasses…
Posted by redstate on Nov 16, 2004 at 9:42 PM Thanks for the clarification Teresa. I admire your courage. It seems our wolf now wants to don sheep’s clothing.
Posted by swingstate on Nov 16, 2004 at 10:12 PM naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah! just dicourse of course I’ll stop the ugliness and talk if you all will. I am not really abad fellow- just ask me.
Posted by redstate on Nov 16, 2004 at 10:29 PM Isn’t it just plain obvious that any entity subjected to the pressures of a market place, i.e. a business, will flat screw over the citizen. It’s a lead-pipe cinch and there’s no need to even think about it. Fortunately, the liberal is there to stand between the greed-heads who live in the market place and the supine souls who are their next meal. Bash liberals all you want, but do you really want to have to take care of yourself?
Posted by clark Nitrate on Nov 16, 2004 at 10:35 PM No I don’t think that business and the free market will ALWAYS screw over the citizen. I think that the size of the entitiy is crucial. I don’t like big business anymore than I like big government. i think there needs to be a balance. I wish governmnet would be more like a small family business- friendly accomodating -personal. Yes i do want to take care of myself as much as possible. I don’t want a nanny state cradle to grave government diaper. i want good roads- national defense. I don’t want unscrupulous people taking advantage of old people or folk who have less mental faculties than normal. I think that we need a balance like I said before. We can meet somewhere in the middle. No body really benefits when one party is pushed to the fringe.
Posted by redstate on Nov 16, 2004 at 11:28 PM This election was smeared with inconsistencies and the more chaotic the more advantageous it was for the GOP .......
Posted by makesenseofit on Nov 17, 2004 at 1:06 AM Hey Redstate, I think your sister is yelling at you to take out the trash. Why did you ever marry that bitch? You play a mean banjo dude.
Posted by Mattdog on Nov 17, 2004 at 2:43 AM hey Mattdog saw yer mamma on the corner-nasty even for a dollar you lowlife butt eating fagboy. did you renew your NAMBLA membership ya little anus. Saw your mamma onthe cover of Crack whore magazine again!!
Posted by redstate on Nov 17, 2004 at 2:48 AM I am new to this site but it seems that Redstate is very similar to another blogger on another “progressive” site I go to. I think it is either the same person or they are a group of people that spread themselves out amongst the liberal and progressive webblogs to spew their venom and see what kind of reactions they can get from us. They don’t really want to try and debate with us.
I agree with Swingstate, who is wise indeed, that he should be ignored. Restate is like a child throwing a tantrum. To show him attention now will only encourage his behavior. I have two teenagers, I know this from experience.
Shhh, pretend he isn’t there….
Posted by midstate on Nov 17, 2004 at 2:53 AM See, what did I tell you? As I was writing my post, look what happened?
Seriously, all of this trading of insults gets us nowhere. The truth is that our voting system is totally screwed up and we need to reform it. It won’t happen anytime soon, and it will get worse before it gets better - if it gets better.
We went to war in Iraq to supposedly bring Democracy to them. If we cannot effectively administer a democratic election in our own country then we have no business trying to tell other countries what to do.
Posted by midstate on Nov 17, 2004 at 2:56 AM hey i did not start it . i try to talk with you and some of you here are cool. i don’t want to fight I’d like to talk but out of nowhwere comes Mattdog Midstate I don’t hear ya bitch at Mattdog but me you go after eh? is this the liberal way of discourse?? I thought you all had open minds but I guess I was wrong…..
Posted by redstate on Nov 17, 2004 at 3:06 AM Dear All,
As a Brit living outside my own nanny state it’s interseting to see you American’s fighting it out over a bone. This site started out with a discussion over the fact that Bush won the election again via the back door. However, you seem to forget that he won the popular vote this time at least he’s getting better at attracting voters. I was sad to see a man how looked so solid fold so quickly as Kerry did. I believed him when he said he would make sure every vote counted. It seems to me these to ivy league guys are just as a bad as each other. I think you American’s are stuck in this two party 50-50 mould. How about voting for an independant that would really open up the country to change. In the Uk we have a number of parties and I feel that States should to our you’ll just be going around in circles again in 4 years time. That is if you haven’t invade Iran or N Korea by then. God what a world we live in where the rich get richer and therest of us are just fighting over the scraps.
Posted by Phil Smith on Nov 17, 2004 at 3:17 AM Thanks to those of you who paid me the complements. It’s not so much that I’m wise but more that my nose works just fine and can still smell a skunk a mile away. I think midstate hit on something. If we are wasting time playing in the third grade sandbox with you-know-who we are unable to discuss the real issues that confront us.
The hypothesis that the efforts of redstate, who is soooo over the top that it warrants suspicion, is being made in concert with others is plausible. Notice how he was very quick to change his tune the moment that he thought he would be shunned. He wants to stay in the flow. Very Dr. Jeckll and Mr. Hide.
Let’s try to keep our eye on the ball.
The far right is very sophisticated. They are very good at the aw shucks corn pone stuff and very good at baiting liberals…as we have seen in this thread. Why the interested in this particular article at this particular time. To rabble rouse? It’s probably more insidious than that.
We’ll talk again.
Posted by swingstate on Nov 17, 2004 at 3:28 AM swingstate I believe you meant jekyll & Hyde but thats picking.. i seek not acceptance nor rejection. i just like to talk ideas . you flatter me with trying to label me as some type of operative of the right- or is that an insult too? i am an old hippie who got kinda pissed at the self rightousness and pomposity of the left .I am neither sophistiicated or corn pone. I am I assure you a rabble rouser whose interest is purely conversational. I mean no harm and despite my rude and profane attacks on people who attack me I have no hate . i love to talk politics and ideas and have no leanings purely other than libertarian. ignore me and attack me if you must but be it known that I will engage in genuine discussion if only allowed to peacefully.
Posted by redstate on Nov 17, 2004 at 4:18 AM Am I mistaken, or did redstate just chastize someone for a minor mistake in spelling. (Swingstate no less, someone whose superior writing skills and obvious intellect put him to shame.) I have read this thread all the way through, and at first I must admit, redstate made me a little angry, (by the way, I thought you were going away? My guess is that you said that so you could duck out, and then once again became so riled up, you just couldn’t stop yourself) “I didn’t start it, you did..” you remind me of the way my siblings and I used to fight…in grade school. Anyway, about halfway through, all I could do was laugh when reading his posts. As swingstate ponted out earlier, his tone visibly changes from post to post. He is INCAPABLE of a proper debate, because he just can’t keep a cool head. As soon as someone makes a valid point that he can’t contend with, his post becomes riddled with these;?????? and these:!!!!!!, Not to mention the MANY spelling errors. Its’ funny. It’s funny that when someone uses a word with more than six letters, he accuses them of using “all those big words”. He cracks me up!
Posted by heyro on Nov 17, 2004 at 6:23 AM I have seen people on other progressive sites that are very much like redstate and I agree that it may be orchestrated. They do sound very much alike. He says he wants to play but has a hard time playing fairly and swingstate you are right, he has donned sheeps clothing. He wants acceptance and inclusion by the progressives here, now that would be funny if it werent so contradictory.
Posted by teresa on Nov 17, 2004 at 11:26 AM And again, you are talking about redstate and not the issue that the voting system in this country is in shambles. Please go to David Corn’s site…www.davidcorn.com, he has an interesting thread going.
Posted by midstate on Nov 17, 2004 at 12:42 PM Dear redneck, we had somebody here who thought it was amusing to rile people with insulting offensive language and little or no sense of nuance. It might have escaped your attention as you were too busy absorbing your onesided newsmakers but he got murdered as he didn’t cowardly hid behind a nickname. His name was Theo van Gogh and believe it or not a well respected filmmaker and a loving father who thought of himself as a untouchable rebel who thought it was funny and useful to ruffle feathers left, right and center as he dind’t care for any extremist points of view. He ended up dead with his throat slid by an extremist and left a country in an uproar and deep confusion; we had freedom of speech, we know how to elect our representatives without fiddling with votes or equipment and were nice to each other, but we are just a speck in the world that is not even big enough to have its name on it wihout a abbreviation, so what do we know? That life is very much not amusing anymore and serious non-offensive debate will get you further to do what you should do as you keep proclaiming itself as the best, the democratic leader etc, (i.e. the us) and that is to put your house in order and make sure that what you are willing to fight wars over so you say is beyond reproach and truly democratic before you export it anywhere else! Meanwhile don’t think that controversy is a fun thing, it is not and don’t think it won’t happen to you because it can, we didn’t believe it here and guess what?Nobody is laughing here any longer.
Posted by lowlands on Nov 17, 2004 at 1:13 PM I think that the left marches in the same lockstep that it accuses the right of. I am not anybody’s operative. I just came here to see the “progressive” views. I must saw that i post on some “conservative” sites and they are much more polite. Not just to me but to the lefties that visit. Like I said i am an old hippie who got disillusioned with the left a while ago. I think that the left is guilty of what it accuses the “right” of- being close minded. i get annoyed at you equating Bush with Hitler and all the conspiracy theories. I certainly don’t seek acceptance with you. Some of you are rather nice and rational and a few are just rude wack jobs. I think it seems like fun for some of you to vent your spleen and act pedantic but that’s Ok.
I find it dismaying to see people who call themselves enlightened and open minded and progressive to be so mean and close minded when it comes to anything that may offend their sense of what is right.
Posted by redstate on Nov 17, 2004 at 1:17 PM dear lowlife. If you lookmaround there are not too many Christians slitting the throats of those who rant against them. If that were so this site would have few writers left. My point is Holland went the route of blind multiculturalism and political correctness and look where it got them. Some poor bastard murdered by somebody who was really intolerant. That is where i get my hackles up. You made the point for me. You worship blindly at the altar of acceptance and tolerance(except conservatives right??) and then you suffer the consequences and you still don’t get it. i suppose that Van Gogh’s murder was Bush’s fault too eh? Every time you bitch about the conservatives trying to take away a woman’s “right to Choose” think of all the Muslim women who quite often don’t have the right to even chose to stay alive.
Posted by redstate on Nov 17, 2004 at 1:26 PM Midstate I seriously doubt that we will “fix” anything by coming to this site or any other like it and talking about the issues. I appreciate that you are wanting to stay on the topic but I would argue that by exposing bigotry and hatred and showing someone for the hypocrit that they are, is a part of the learning process. When the civil rights movement began there was a lot of work to do. One of the ways the folks who were involved in that movement helped was to expose all the lies and the hatred to people who might not otherwise see it. redstate is not the only one with the view we have seen displayed here in the last few days. I live in Oklahoma, its rampant here, believe me.
Posted by teresa on Nov 17, 2004 at 2:03 PM Dear redneck, no we dont blame bush for a minute, so put your hackles down and calm down for a minute, you are so easy too rile that I wonder why you get so angry. a true christian would turn the other cheek and pray for your hatefilled soul,so I guess that you didn’t become a christian after your disillusionment with the left but you didn’t find an viable alternative by the looks of it. the point of my comment is that extremism breeds extremism and in the end violence, pick up a historybook and blood will drip of the pages sadly. It was a muslim here at this time but it could be anybody anywhere as the news will tell you every day. the point is that your country is getting it seems strechted at the seams if you keep on tugging at its very fabric; democracy. And don’t tell me that christians are non-violent in your country, they just use differnent methods. The point is controversy doesn’t help anybody if it played out with such venom!!!! and dear redstate my apoligies for the redneck comment, Freudian slip I’m afraid after reading all your incendary comments. greetings from lowlife from the lowlands praying we’ll keep our feet dry in these troubled times
Posted by lowlands on Nov 17, 2004 at 2:14 PM sorry i offended your politically correct sensiblities Theresa. There are other views on things out there and there is hatred and bigotry on the left just as bad as on the right.
Posted by Redstate on Nov 17, 2004 at 2:16 PM OK man of the lowlands- peace. i stop the nasty drivel. I just like ideas. I love the coyote sense of humbling the self rightous and making them laugh at themselves.The left needs to lighten up with the hate too. i never said i was a “true” Christian.I don’t believe in always turning the other cheek! I come from a Catholic backround. But my backround also is Pagan and many other beliefs. I read everything I can. I am the guy at the cafe not engaging in conversation I am the guy reading the milk container!
I mean it when i say to all of youmay you never thirst
may you never hunger
Posted by redstate on Nov 17, 2004 at 2:34 PM Dear redstate, thank you for your good wishes, gives me a distinctly different angle on your comments (by the way who could have come from Theo van Goghs mouth, same take on debate but not very constructive) than what I read before but lets get back at where the debate started; how your votingsystem is shaky to say the least, any proposals to improve it and make it less partisan and more private, easier to check if things are aboveboard. Respectable newsources in Europe keep on reporting that there’s been massive voterigging with the old and the new systems, that is sad to say the least.
Posted by lowlands on Nov 17, 2004 at 3:21 PM As for me, I live in a red state, namely Ohio (and, incidentally, grew up in the reddest of the red—the heartland of Kansas). Wood County, Ohio, is a swing county and often considered a bellweather. As some of you may know, the major city of our region is Toledo (half an hour north of my home), which was targetted with more political advertising than any other locality in the US. Bush, Cheney, Kerry and Edwards all passed through multiple times, as did most of their wives, as well.
I worked very hard on the election, volunteering from 10 to 20 hours every week from August through October. Please know that I do NOT believe the outcome in Ohio reflects the true will of the people or the actual vote, if it were properly tallied.
OOps—I am runnning out of time but will return to post further details of our experience…
Best wishes to you all.
Posted by Ann Miller on Nov 17, 2004 at 4:48 PM In an age of irony(an undergrad major) satire is completely lost.
Posted by clark Nitrate on Nov 17, 2004 at 5:42 PM As I was saying, there is no question in my mind that voter supression occurred here in Ohio, both at the polling place, as well as in the ballot count. Greg Palast’s excellent article enumerates many of the problems and ought to appear on the front page of every newspaper in our state.
In addition, there were incidents of precinct AND provisional ballots being denied on 11/2 to people who earlier requested absentee ballots, even if they had not used or even received those ballots. Preliminary information suggests that this was done selectively, ie, in urban and heavily Democratic precincts. Here in Wood County, in my Republican-leaning precinct, my daughter was allowed to vote, even though she had requested an absentee ballot weeks before, AND changed her address, AND had no proof of her current residence. She readily received and voted by regular punch card, not a provisional ballot.
At the very least, this indicates unequal protection of voting rights from one precinct to another.
According to our local ACLU board director [[UH-OH! Did I “start it” again?? Will mention of defending civil liberties incite recriminating remarks like—<<Ho Hum you sound just like Jesse Jackson trying to extort money for alleged racism. I hope the ACLU ( a communist lawyers union) comes to your rescue. When you don’t like something you can always cry racism like crying wolf. Bush won get over it.>> ...??]]
...Anyway, according to our local ACLU board director, the greatest systemic concern about our Ohio vote on 11/2 is that waiting lines of up to 10 hours developed, primarily IN DEMOCRATIC PRECINCTS. This was due to inadequate numbers of voting machines/booths provided in these polling places. Now, it’s possible that some of these precincts have seen low turnout in the past and only needed that number of machines. But given the various, extensive voter registration drives statewide since early last spring (and all of those that I’m aware of, BTW, were conducted exclusively by volunteers—contrary to allegations I’ve seen in the media), all of our Boards of Election HAD to know that higher than usual turnout was to be expected.
In the town of Bowling Green, where I work, there were such long lines in certain precincts that we dispatched volunteers to deliver encouragement, hot coffee/tea/etc. (it was cold and drizzling) to people still in lines after 8pm. Of course, most people were determined to vote no matter what, but let’s face it—if you have crying children in tow, an early Wednesday morning at work, a growling stomach, or etc., you may simply have to throw in the towel.
Well, I guess that’s more than 2 cents worth for one day, and I only hope some of it was interesting to read. Long story short: there are many, many kinks in the electoral system, and we don’t yet know the full story.
All best.
PS—I’d like to acknowledge my conviction that “Mr. Hide” is no mere spelling error. I got a kick out of it.
Posted by Ann Miller on Nov 17, 2004 at 6:47 PM It’s very sad to see both sides resort to name calling. I may have falsely assumed that there were adults debating in this forum. Redstate was right when he stated there is hatred and bigotry on the left and right. Some of you have aptly displayed this.
Posted by blueridge on Nov 17, 2004 at 7:32 PM So, which scandal will bring about impeachment proceedings?
1. The Stolen Election
2. Haliburton Briberies
3. Plame Affair
4. Abu GhraibI’m going with Bev Harris and choice number 1…although any of the above that brings it on would be fine by me
Posted by non-citizen on Nov 17, 2004 at 8:50 PM As an African American.., I’m sick to death of ALWAYS needing to question if my country is ‘for me, or against me’. I do not have the luxury of ever forgetting about whether I’m being ‘treated the same’, regardless of my effort to move through this country with a measure of Grace. I’m really exhausted from the rhetoric that neither represents me, or includes me, in it’s most basic ideology. Christians and Christianity ignores my right to believe in the God of my ancestors and having no true affiliation to being African or American, allows me to daily feel like a nomad in the place that’s suppose to my home. I’m tired.., just tired of it all and if I could find one other place to ‘live’ in peace, I would be ‘gone’ with the wind.
Posted by Brother Douglas on Nov 17, 2004 at 9:19 PM Thanks for the good word, Jake. I studied history and it has always served me well at least in understanding a situation in time. And in my job. It also teaches one to study your sources well. I must say, I browse through these posts occasionally, and there are people who write things here, you mention one, who must be profoundly frustrated at not having an elastic mind able to exrtrapolate from plain events. They just spout the same old hogwash we have been hearing before, no ideas, no reflection… two dimensional stuff, propaganda from the Bilge Belt. I still remain optimistic that America is sanguine enough to switch suddenly, to realize the country has been shafted.
Posted by Talleyrand on Nov 17, 2004 at 9:31 PM I want to tell Ann Miller that I also reside in Wood County and in Bowling Green. Yes there was a clear case of very sophisticated voter suppression all across Ohio. But since the 1965 Voting Rights Act only covers protecting the rights of voters in the 13 SOUTHERN STATES (ooops) no federal laws were broken under that act. Isn’t that special?
Of course, this doesn’t mean that there were not laws broken.
The question is why did Kerry concede? As of this evening there will be a recount in Ohio.
Of course don’t believe for one second that the results will change. You can’t count a vote that’s been shredded.My point is the election is not just one night.
It began earlier than Election Day and results are not certified until December 1st.
But Ken Blackwell figured out that if he pulled voting machines from key black precincts, black people would give up and go home…which they did by the thousands. Let’s face it…we’re not tough enough to get the job done. We’re great at whining though. We’re soft when push comes to shove. Where were the chairs for people to sit in on the line. Where was the outdoor TV for entertainment, where were the food tents? An army travels on its stomach, but our army was not fed on the front line so the troops went home to eat.
We don’t act like its life or death, period.
Remember the movie, “Network”? Peter Finch, “I’m mad as Hell and I’m not going to take it anymore.”That should be our battlecry. Everyday in everyway. Mad as Hell and we will do whatever it takes. Fair or unfair. It’s come to that.
Still Kerry’s people should have anticipated this final battle. In Toledo the Democractic headquarters were burgularized, with only the computers listing registered voters stolen. What did the democratic DA of Lucas County do?
Absolutely nothing. There wasn’t even an investigation!! Lists with ALL the registered voters addresses and phone numbers. Why no overnight armed security, no frigging BACK UP DISKS, NO ONE WILLING TO DIE rather than give the lists up. If they had asked me I would have. Wasn’t the fate of the nation at stake?Democrats didn’t act like it. So what happened next was predictable. The trusting citizens in the overwhemigly black and democratic precincts got phone calls telling them their percincts had been CHANGED. So they went to the wrong precinct and of course Blackwell was waiting for them because he had a federal ruling saying that UNLESS YOU VOTED IN THE RIGHT PRECINCT your vote didn’t count.
But it’s the democrats fault because we trusted the republicans to be honest and not steal our computers. How stupid can you be.
Democrats are simply not willing to do EVERYTHING that is necessary to win. Unfortunately we have principles. We have to learn to be ruthless, we have to learn to create ads that are simple but powerful. Like those wolf ads…we should have counterattacked with an ad that had sheep in the valley, suddenly Vietnam vets (like Kerry) take off the sheep’s clothing and machine gun and kill every single wolf in that ad. Tagline…
“John Kerry has dealt with wolves in the jungle before…and he’s still standing”
Or better yet after all the wolves are dead just say…
“Any questions?”
Another ad might have been about 9/11: after all Bush let this happen on his watch…
“George Bush says he will protect us from terrorism. Do we really want a man who has already failed to keep us safe?”
Get the idea? Mount up!
Posted by swingstate on Nov 17, 2004 at 11:08 PM Can moderate Republicans simply ask themselves “what if the situation were reversed, with a Democrat having won the election through a calculated strategy”.... and ask themselves “Do you stand for free and transparent elections regardless of which side benefits? The election is the cornerstone of democracy and the process should be scrutinized, enhanced and protected by all Americans regardless of party politics. Both sides ought to welcome recounts, exit polls, non-partisan counters and much critcal analysis ensuring that the process is protected and not just that their party won or lost.
Posted by kallister on Nov 17, 2004 at 11:36 PM You may have seen the associated press story about the precinct in Cuyahoga county that had less than 1,000 voters, and gave Bush almost 4,000 extra votes.
But that turns out to be only the tip of a very ugly iceberg. The evidence discovered by some remarkably careful sleuthing would convince any reasonable court to invalidate the entire Ohio election.
In last Tuesday’s election, 29 precincts in Cuyahoga County, Ohio, reported votes cast IN EXCESS of the number of registered voters - at least 93,136 extra votes total. And the numbers are right there on the official Cuyahoga County Board of Elections website -
http://boe.cuyahogacounty.us//BOE/results/currentresults1.htm#top
is the official website of the Cuyahoga county election board, providing irrefutable evidence that the vote was off by at least 93,000.Kerry lost Ohio by approximately 130,000, so this is not an insignificant figure that can be ignored, particularly when there are numerous other indications of voter fraud in Ohio and elsewhere.
I happen to live in a red state, but my county is absolutely BLUE - - the majority of votes in Flagstaff went to John Kerry, as did the entire county of Coconino.
Steve - - A DAY IN THE LIFE OF JOE REPUBLICAN was a great essay - thank you.
P.S. - Midstate, while I’ve enjoyed reading your posts (very level-headed), please do not use the republican revisionist reasons for going to Iraq, i.e., to bring them Democracy. That is not why we went. We went b/c Sadam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction that he could use against countries such as Israel, or that could get into the hands of terrorists who could use them against us - - “But we don’t want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud.” (Condoleeza Rice)
Thanks for the brain-food ya’ll - - keep up the great dialogue…
Posted by SagGem2004 on Nov 18, 2004 at 2:51 AM From the Cuyahoga County Board of Elections website:
Bay Village - 13,710 registered voters / 18,663 ballots cast
Beachwood - 9,943 registered voters / 13,939 ballots cast
Bedford - 9,942 registered voters / 14,465 ballots cast
Bedford Heights - 8,142 registered voters / 13,512 ballots cast
Brooklyn - 8,016 registered voters / 12,303 ballots cast
Brooklyn Heights - 1,144 registered voters / 1,869 ballots cast
Chagrin Falls Village - 3,557 registered voters / 4,860 ballots cast
Cuyahoga Heights - 570 registered voters / 1,382 ballots cast
Fairview Park - 13,342 registered voters / 18,472 ballots cast
Highland Hills Village - 760 registered voters / 8,822 ballots cast
Independence - 5,735 registered voters / 6,226 ballots cast
Mayfield Village - 2,764 registered voters / 3,145 ballots cast
Middleburg Heights - 12,173 registered voters / 14,854 ballots cast
Moreland Hills Village - 2,990 registered voters / 4,616 ballots cast
North Olmstead - 25,794 registered voters / 25,887 ballots cast
Olmstead Falls - 6,538 registered voters / 7,328 ballots cast
Pepper Pike - 5,131 registered voters / 6,479 ballots cast
Rocky River - 16,600 registered voters / 20,070 ballots cast
Solon (WD6) - 2,292 registered voters / 4,300 ballots cast
South Euclid - 16,902 registered voters / 16,917 ballots cast
Strongsville (WD3) - 7,806 registered voters / 12,108 ballots cast
University Heights - 10,072 registered voters / 11,982 ballots cast
Valley View Village - 1,787 registered voters / 3,409 ballots cast
Warrensville Heights - 10,562 registered voters / 15,039 ballots cast
Woodmere Village - 558 registered voters / 8,854 ballots cast
Bedford (CSD) - 22,777 registered voters / 27,856 ballots cast
Independence (LSD) - 5,735 registered voters / 6,226 ballots cast
Orange (CSD) - 11,640 registered voters / 22,931 ballots cast
Warrensville (CSD) - 12,218 registered voters / 15,822 ballots castKerry’s statement the day after the election that there were not enough provisional ballots to have any chance to alter the result of the election may have been true, but it was a bit misleading since provisional ballots are only part of the story. There were also absentee ballots, there were reports of substantial pockets of election problems, and allegations of over-voting and machine malfunction. In addition, over 70 percent of Ohio’s votes were done with punch cards. We know that when you do a challenge to those, they tend to turn over. So there is room to challenge Ohio and other states. This is not to say that a recount is likely to change the result of the election, but it is not an impossibility.
COUNT EVERY VOTE AND LET THE CHIPS FALL WHERE THEY MAY!!!
Posted by SagGem2004 on Nov 18, 2004 at 3:00 AM “We went b/c Sadam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction that he could use against countries such as Israel, or that could get into the hands of terrorists who could use them against us -...” -
UMMM. NOPE. SORRY, not true.
Posted by heyro on Nov 18, 2004 at 3:04 AM Sorry dude, I wasn’t sure if you were being sarcastic or not, but since there are so many people who actully STILL believe that thought I’d put that out there. Color me red! ( as in embarassed)
Posted by heyro on Nov 18, 2004 at 3:16 AM We’ve had close elections in the past except in the past two a new strategy seems to have been implemented. That strategy is one in which the science of understanding electoral college votes has been perfected to the point of being able to determine exactly the one state that will decide the election and placing all of your advance “ground” forces (to use another military analogy) in that state for the purposes of committing acts that will assure you of victory.
It is also predicated on the knowledge that you control: the most important person in the state in regards to elections, that is the Secretary of State and…
control the U.S. Supreme Court, which if all else fails will vote your way regardless.I’d be interested in seeing how the end game is played out after the Electoral College votes this time. As you may recall the Congressional Black Caucus challenged the election in the Senate when the electoral votes were reported and counted there in January 2001. Gore presided over this if you recall.
As was so eloquently documented by Michael Moore, at the beginning of Fahrenheit 9/11
not a single senator would sign the challenge, as required by the rules of the Senate. Had such a challenge been signed, the matter could have led to an investigation by that body, with the Florida electoral votes not being counted until after the Senate was satisfied.One thing the ruling class did not want to see is a delay in the process because the government of the United States would have continued to function, not be “paralyzed” as was stated. Why?
Because the Presidency is not that an important a function in terms of running the government, and We the People would have asked, well then who IS running the government? Remember ‘ol Jack Ruby said after JFK was murdered that we “now have a whole new form of government.” People blew that statement off but somehow he knew that was exactly the case.Why do I say this? Well this time we have Barack Obama from Illinois, who might sign such a petition and the great secret of the puppet President would be out.
The elections of 2000 and 2004 were about the preservation of white privilege. Kerry, Kennedy, Hillary Clinton were ALL in that Senate chamber back in 2000. Don’t you find it interesting that none of these liberals would stand up for the 1965 Voting Rights Act, which clearly had been violated?
This time it might be that Skull and Bones rules, which supercede ANY other laws, (yes I mean federal, state, you name it) dictated that Kerry concede right away to his fellow brother, so again white privilege might be maintained at all costs….one of the founding principals of that super secret sect.
So in answer to kallister, NEITHER side will welcome recounts, et.al. because it is not in the interests of the elite ruling class.
My guess is Obama wants to be President, is right now being groomed for President, much like a 32 yr. old governor from Arkansas was back in 1979 (guess who) and will not join the Black Caucus or anyone else’s petition to challenge the election….unless we have a Janauary surprise in store and our secret government has decided that maybe Bush needs to be humiliated.
The only remedy for this is a legitimate third party and fourth party, much like what the gentleman from England said to us earlier in this thread. Al long as we accept the two party system there will not be significant changes in America that affect lower and middle class Americans.
Posted by swingstate on Nov 18, 2004 at 3:25 AM Point well taken, Swingstate….
and while I agree that democracy might be better served by putting together coalitions from other parties, the fact remains that ‘in our current reality’ we had a choice of either Bush or Kerry. The short term answer from any informed person was Kerry… the lesser of two problems. Politicians are the enemy, no doubt, for they are the servants of power. They perpetuate the worst of humanity and undermine the masses at every turn. But November 2nd was our last best shot at preserving a country that we might have mended. In four years I fear that we won’t know enough to stop it. Perhaps that is what the country needs so that people can grasp at last the obvious and four more years of the Great Bush Crusade.
Posted by kallister on Nov 18, 2004 at 3:49 AM So can someone tell me what might happen if irrefutable evidence was found in Ohio, or Florida, or really, anywhwere. I plead total ignorance here. I would really appreciate it if someone could answer this question. Does somone have to once again Challege in the Senate? Can the Electoral College vote on their own accord? Can Bush be impeached? Is there ANY way AT ALL that another election would be held? And what about all the appointments and “resignations” in the admin. since the election? Could Someone educate me, please?
Posted by heyro on Nov 18, 2004 at 4:13 AM I don’t agree the conclusions the author of this article wrote, I believe that the sources he used were questionable at best. I am a conservative but truly believe that dissention is what makes this country great. Trying to find non-partisan sources is truly difficult, but in defense of not counting the vote because the whole was not correctly and completley punched, these voters didn’t even take the time to double check their votes, I’m sorry but they chose to not make their vote not count, nobody else did. On a side note we did get attacked in OUR HOUSE in 1993 the first WTC bombing. Also, an operation of the magnitude of the 2001 WTC bombing was planned well in advance of Bush’s first term. I feel, and I could be wrong, that Clinton’s non resoponse to the first bombing helped lead to the second, but that is just a feeling.
Posted by giantsox79 on Nov 19, 2004 at 12:15 AM Thank you giantsox for correcting me on the first WTC bombing. It’s easy to forget that first tragedy given the magnitude of the second. But any attempt to blame Clinton, even partially, for the second bombing is suspect.
You would think that Team Bush would have been even more vigilant since the first attack had occurred. Also Bush had the CIA report in hand, referenced by NSA Rice in her testimony to the 9/11 Commission, the TITLE of which said that bin Laden was planning an attack on an American city using air planes as bombs…how much more of a heads up do you need? Hey, but I guess working on his golf game was more important.
I’d be interested in which particular sources you feel are suspect and why. Please share the information you have to the contrary.
Finally, it’s a typical conservative response to blame the victims. There was NO ATTEMPT TO COUNT these so-called “spoiled” votes at all. Doesn’t it bother you if 2 million votes are just thrown in the garbage. Of course it would, if it were your guy on the short end. Why do we make it so difficult to vote? Why do we declare a winner and then count the votes. Votes aren’t certified by the states until December 1st. This isn’t the SuperBowl where we have to have a winner the same day.
We have no problem granting driver’s permits or state ID cards. We choose not to use the state police computer systems to veriify voters because its too EASY. The police use it everyday to find people and verify identities. But we don’t because then there would be no way to disenfranchise minority voters who are specifically targeted time and again. Makes me appreciate the racists from the Jim Crow era, at least they were straight forward.
But ok…let’s say we accept your premise that chads are the fault of the voter, even though I disagree. What about the organized republican effort to challenge black voters at the polls BEFORE they vote. What about the lack of voting machines, which caused some people to give up after waiting up to ten houts to vote. Can you imagine being in the DMV line that long? There would be a riot.
What about the report given earlier in this thread about Cuyahoga County recording more votes than there are people in some of the precincts? Go to that site and see for yourself. It’s an eye opener. 93,000 votes more than registered voters. Grounds for an automatic recount.
So if you would site what sources you think are “questionable” and present your evidence as to why it is. I’d be very interested in reading your research.
Posted by swingstate on Nov 19, 2004 at 2:01 AM @redstate: you expend a tremendous effort to remain so amazingly ignorant and selfish. Why don’t you use your strength and intelligence to get a clue?
LIBERAL - yes I am. VERY. Why? THE FACTS.
Posted by kabamm on Nov 19, 2004 at 6:34 AM Oh, sorry folks, didn’t read the whole thread. We’re ignoring him.
Greg Palast is a hero and should be garlanded with laurels. This election just smelled wrong to me - thank goodness someone is telling the truth.
Posted by kabamm on Nov 19, 2004 at 6:51 AM @heyro - good questions. Anyone? Someone must have the legal grounds to do something about this mess…
Posted by kabamm on Nov 19, 2004 at 6:54 AM I do have a difficult time feeling sorry for anyone who didn’t examine their voting card enough to make sure it was within acceptable standards. I believe even more that if a person can not even double check their vote, they more than likely couldn’t even begin to tell you about the platform of the candidate they voted for. Too many people vote based on thirty second sound bytes or what the Swift boat veterans for truth/Moveon.org tell them very few people look at the relevant issues. Finally no it wouldn’t bother me if my vote didn’t count due to my own negligence, that is my responsibility.
Even though I checked my vote it still didn’t count I tend to vote republican in New York, mine never counts.As far as my questionable sources comment the posting about the extra votes that were cast in Ohio is one of them. Yes I believe that there is proof that there is foul play, but what party are these registered voters? Who are they? Untill these questions are answered these are just numbers. We need to determine who benefitted more. The natural assumption is Bush since he apparently won Ohio, but we have to be sure. Weeks before the election CNN reported that some democrats were simultaneously regstered in Florida and Ohio. Yes if the republican party is trying to throw out black votes because they are overwhelmingly democrat that is reprehensible, but no less than the Gore camp trying to throw out the military vote in 2000. The military is predominatly republican and Gore knew that after Clinton cut the military in half, many soldiers were a little torqued.
And as for Farenheit/911, the disclaimer at the beginning of the movie says it all, this is for entertainment purposes only. Don’t accept much of that as fact because by Moore’s own admission he used some clever editing tricks to make his point. So once again examine the source. You don’t see me here spouting off Ann Coulter or Laura Ingram claiming it to be an ironclad fact. I actually go out and research what they claim.
This source is also suspect. Where is the report from the U.S. Civil Rights Commission? How can I access it? Why didn’t the author of the article include this information? Your postings are interesting but I have a hard time accepting them as fact they just appear to be stories, I need some sort of proof. Michael Moore doesn’t count either folks. These wacky conspiracy theories are entertaining but I can’t base the truth off entertainment.
Can you reference me in the 9/11 report where Rice testified , because I don’t remeber seeing it. I’m not saying it didn’t happen but I need to see that testimony to be sure. After reading “Dereliction of Duty” by Lt. Col. “Buzz” Patterson (the carrier of the Nuclear football for Clinton) you’d see who was more interested in their golf game truly. If Clinton would’ve reacted the way Bush did those two towers would still be standing although they’d still be juicy targets for other terrorist groups. But we really did create our own problems by arming Al-Qaida and for that matter Iraq. We know he had weapons of mass destruction at least chemical anyway, the Reagan administration and Ollie North supplied him with them. In 1997 his son-in-law an supposed head of his WMD program claimed that Hussein’s program was alive and well, but once again I reiterate, consider the source it is entirely possible he was promoting his entire agenda (like Moore)but we’ll never know. When he returned with Saddam’s promise no punishment would come to him Uday brought his head to Saddam. Does this really sound like someone to try diplomacy with? I feel no. But I could be wrong.
Bottom line is we had more terrorist attacks at home and abroad on civilian and mainly military personell during non-aggression time during Clinton’s time than Bush. That is a fact. I feel Clinton’s non-response was worse than Bush’s pre-emptive one, but once again that is just what I feel. I realize that since my unit was deployed to Ground Zero on 9/11 what I saw and moreover the stench I worked in does bring a certain amount of emotion into my decision, and perhaps I shouldn’t be the person to decide our course of action, but I do get an equal say as everyone in the country. Untill you can prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that this election was rigged I will continue believing that Bush won this election. I am open to any and all credible sources to change my perception though. I truly enjoy a differing opinion because I can learn alot from informed people such as yourselves who see things differently than me.
Posted by giantsox on Nov 19, 2004 at 9:00 PM Hey, John Kerry didnt wank my weenie on election day, can i have my vote back??
Posted by Kerrywhacker on Dec 2, 2004 at 3:45 AM I am proud of our California senator Boxer. I am proud of those who bravely chose to join them.
I think it’s interesting to see how many “redstate” people are desperate to tell us to get over it. We have not been shrill, we have not been manipulating the media to get attention (as if we could interject ourselves into this right-wing media. HA!)
Word of caution to the idiots in redstates who want to tell us to shut up: You are supporting a man who has lied to you. It is reasonable to believe the lies of a president. It is not reasonable to cling to these lies when they have been thoroughly exposed.
Republicans are terrorists. If all arguments are centered on this basic truth, then we can begin a discussion on how to return this country to its constitutional mandate.
Peace.
Posted by Ken Daves on Jan 6, 2005 at 7:51 PM I have never seen anthing as sleazy a American politics. Everyone in the world know Bush won neither of the last two elections. The only difference between the UKRAINE election and the US election is the the thieves in the US are more accomplished. A fair election in the US has about as much chance of happening as hell freezing over.
Posted by Chuck B on Jan 6, 2005 at 7:55 PM giantsox,
Thanks. It’s refreshing to see there are still some sane Republicans out there. From your post, “we armed al-qaeda and Iraq.” WE (Rumsfeld, cia, Bush I, Reagan, Ollie North) ARMED AL-QAEDA. Steel structures don’t collapse due to fire. PDB August 6, 2001. You’re almost there. Did it hit you yet? Like the stench you described at ground zero, it’s starting to hit you, isn’t it?
The irony of it all, is that among all the lies, a twisted bit of truth exists: they hate us for our freedom. What they don’t tell you is “they” are Bush, Wolfowitz, Rice, Perle, Gonzales, Cheney, Lieberman, Guiliani, Rove, Silverman, Murdoch… Al-Qaeda is just a subsidiary.
Posted by doug4jets on Jan 6, 2005 at 8:07 PM To all you supporters of Bush,
Get off your backsides and show your unending support for your president. Enlist for immediate action in Iraq.
With the Iraqi elections just a few weeks away and 200,000 “highly dangerous terrorists” (i.e. local Iraqis and their neighbours) about to attack, you can bet they need some fresh meat over there.
Bush said bring it on. Well, they did.
Watchya gonna do boyz?
Support the troops Bush boys. Get your asses over there now.
You vote for this. You want it. Go get it. But remember. You support it, you must pay to clean it up after the fact. You broke it you have to pay for it.
Posted by Gill Bates on Jan 6, 2005 at 8:10 PM There is only one way to clean up the mess when all is said and done in Iraq. Everyone that voted Republican should be executed for supporting a proven war criminal and terrorist regime.
The fair way to do this would be to ship them all off to Iraq to rebuild it (with their money). Then, they should be forced to rebuild every other country they have had destroyed.
When that is done, they should be hung up like Mousolini was - so all can witness what the world should do to people like this.
Posted by Gill Bates on Jan 6, 2005 at 8:17 PM The other difference is that the Ukraines don’t have a press that exists only to keep the powers that be in power.
Our press is less free than the Ukraines. Who’d a thunk?
God love Dennis Kucinich. Don’t let the media make fun of him, and if they do, know it’s the media and not him.
Posted by Ken Daves on Jan 6, 2005 at 8:22 PM The Party that claims to be the reaaallllllly smart people admitting that they are to stupid to cast a vote. That’s Funny
Posted by country bumpkin on Jan 6, 2005 at 10:28 PM Happy Holidays everyone…
I offer a few comments in rebuttal to the previous post asking me for “proof”.
1. Rice’s testimony before the 9/11 was carried live on TV and of course is included in the 9/11 Commission report, which is available in every bookstore.
2. As a documentary filmmaker myself I can tell you that the disclaimer “entertainment only” at the beginning of Moore’s film was placed there by the distribution company as a legal means to avoid being sued. This does not mean that the work is fiction. No one has sued Moore (and you know the conservatives want to) because his facts are accurate. Moore admittedly often does edit out of context; mostly transposing time (such as the opening Gore dream sequence).
However his information on the Carlyle Group’s connection to the Bushites is dead accurate as are his interviews. And his painfully concise documentation of the lily white Senate’s refusal to question the election results in Florida is probably more damning than anything said about Bush because these guys all are so “liberal.” But when push came to shove where was the one senator needed TO SIGN THE PETITION BROUGHT BY THE BLACK CAUCUS? Kennedy? Boxer? Feinstein? Clinton? KERRY?? ALL SILENT!3. Why not type in “Thomas Carlyle” at Google search and see who Carlyle Group is named after and what the name means interms of history and political philosophy. Company names just don’t come out of the air. They have purpose.
4. As far as rigging the election, I’ve got one word for you… Diebold. Its CEO guaranteed a Bush win after he was given the contracts to computerize the voting machines. Why name a state level secretary of state (supposedly in charge of presiding over a fair election) the CHAIRMAN of your reelection committee (Ohio, 2004; Florida, 2000)? It’s a clear conflict of interest and more than hints at skullduggery.
And there are too many conincidences (yep a new word I invented) for me. That this is the FIRST time exit polls have been discounted as inaccurate. That only black majority precincts had fewer voting machines and that only black and poor voters were challenged. 1950’s White supremacy redux pure and simple.
5. Moore and his film proved conclusively that the Saudis and their oil control the Bushites and you don’t believe that because you can’t believe men of color could ever have that kind of power. They do. So what do our leaders do? Once these guys don a cowboy hat the conservative iconography of the west takes over your brain. Name me one President since JFK not from the south or not conservative right wing. LBJ…Nixon…Ford…Carter…Reagan…Bush…
Clinton…Bush.They could sell this country to the Arab oil shieks but hey they’re wearing that hat. They could be from Maine and have gone to the most liberal and elite prep schools and colleges but hey he’s got a cowboy hat and he uses a chain saw to cut wood, damn he’s one of us. Those guys must sit down to dinner and can’t even take the first bite without laughing their asses off at how dumb people are. Granted the cowboy hat is better looking than that pointed white hood but consider it even more powerful a symbol to those fearful of liberals, jews, and rational blacks who still remember what King and X died for. And hell you can wear the hat to dinner and not have to cut up your wife’s good sheets.
It’s easier to believe in the “hat” than the truth, which is that Middle eastern men of color, esposing a religion the media so effectively has taught us to hate, run this government.
Don’t think so? How easy would it have been for the Shieks to pull the 600 Billion in Saudi money invested in the U.S. economy, and say convert it to euros or yen if Gore won the 2000 election. See Al won but he had one problem, a Jewish VP one heart beat away, something totally unacceptable to Islam.
Saudi economic blackmail. Now that’s a reason to keey EVERY senator silent that day in 2000 they counted the electoral votes, isn’t it? Speak up and Gore will run a country with its economy ruined, and with gasoline at European prices. OR… Al you can take this “settlement” check and graciously throw in the towel. Be a patriot or be President. Must have been one hell of a meeting.
It explains how Saudi citizens can blow the hell out of the Trade Center and we have to take in the ****. Why? Because disaster is only a phone call to Wall street away. We even have to let the FAMILY of the MURDERER GO without questioning them (which by the way Michael Moore got completely right.)
Welcome to the desert of the real.
Posted by swingstate on Jan 7, 2005 at 12:48 AM There is no party in America that is really smart. We have allowed a lying, mental-midget chimp-fuck to steal two straight elections. We went to war over imaginery weapons based on blatantly false information. We have one Senator with nuts and her name is Barbara.
We are about to confirm an asshole for Attorney General who has advocated torture and been an abject failure at pretty much all he has done, except for sticking his head up Bush The Fucked-ups ass. Our defense secretary is a fucking retard, who couldn’t invade my house without fucking it up.
We have a press that is littered with fascist scum-sucking bitches like Coulter, Limbaugh, Hannity and Falafel Boy who wouldn’t know the truth if it dick-slapped them in the face. And we have citizens who vote to turn over their country to religious zealot-fucks and corporations led by stupid, whorish pieces of crap who make the aforementioned people look good.
Oh yeah, and why don’t you learn the difference between to and too, or don’t they have fucking 4th grade where you live?!
Posted by Mattdog on Jan 7, 2005 at 1:16 AM Country bumpkin, are you a poster child?
I have noticed that I can tell republicans just by watching them on TV, and I mean watching. I can tell without hearing a word they’ve got to say.
They are the ones who look like they’re lying to themselves, and hope they’re pulling one over on you.
They are the ones who are slick, strident, and mostly vapid.
Coulter is a %&^$! (Think assonance. Or assinine.)
Why do stupid people gloat so much when they feel that they have power?
I would like everyone in this room to answer a question:
Do you notice the movement of the language tending towards revolution? I can sense it is moving that way. We are righfully indignant at the fascists stealing our lives.
Bumpkin, ugh.
“Too” is used to say something like: “You are too stupid for words,” and “to” is used in the sense “Go to hell.”
Get it?
Posted by Ken Daves on Jan 7, 2005 at 1:26 AM Thanks for this Site:
The average American DOES see the atrocities of the Bush takeover, both foreign and domestic, but as was in the Hitler regime, fear becomes the greater factor holding citizens in check. Taxpayers are expected to play by the rules while the governments makes the rules, rearranging countries to their profit. Elitist coffers reap the spoils. By the time citizens get the picture, it’s too late to fix the problem. We just foot the bill.
Is the earth coming apart from Planet X, HAARP, El Nino, Industrial Pollution, War, Nuclear Disaster, Mother Nature, Political Manipulation, or what! We only know what we are told. Then we get stressed, depressed, angry, raged, and hostile; none of which can be released without leaving us looking like terrorists. If we band together, we’re called conspirators. If one voice protests, it either disappears or is accused of being SATANIC. With so much paranoia in America it’s hard to determine who the enemy is. The lies are so retarded, we accuse each other.
My first thought on the Sumatran Trench tsunami was WHAT caused this ... God? America was so fast with supplies and 10,000 men it astounded me. Where did they come from so fast? My next thought was WHO GAINS WHAT on this massive destruction? Of course I didn’t realize at the time 99% of the people in the damaged area are Muslim, nor did I realize the land in question is sitting on another vast supply of oil.
Our men finally have the chance to be ‘who they really are’ in the rescue effort in Asia. It almost feels good to see “Our Boys” helping people they didn’t have to slaughter, and for once, in a land WE didn’t destroy. Strange seeing all the Bushmen, Jeb, Papa B., Clinton, and Powell running swiftly with Big Brother’s helping hand. Where’s Cheney? Indonesia’s EXXON wasn’t even touched, and apparently neither was Diego Garcia Naval base. Who’s next?
Peace
Maka Fairman
Posted by Maka Fairman on Jan 7, 2005 at 2:41 AM I agree wuth Mattdog. After the 2000 election we sat and watched Bush steal another one. Until more people stand up and say that we are not going out like this again nothing will change.
Posted by Concerned Citizen on Jan 7, 2005 at 4:27 AM The election was merely a distraction from the truth. It didn’t matter who anyone voted for, the election wasn’t for the people of America. America was established as an illusion for the people to believe in from the beginning. What people? Boats and boats of criminals who were controled by more criminals.
But ... the spirit of this land, which was overtaken by the criminals, can never be broken. It lives in those of us that love this land. I am not an athiest, but I very seriously doubt persons who will speak for God. As from the words of a good brother, Jethro Tull, “In the beginning, MAN created god.” There is a spirit I believe in however, and most of us know the feeling. Love is the truth, and in the spirit of love, nothing is impossible.
Folks this is real. Haven’t you wondered why Mr. Cheney has been missing from the headlines lately? Where is he? Shouldn’t he have been the one to “observe” the mess in Asia instead of Bill Clinton and Papa B.? Wouldn’t it have been better for our President or Vice P. to travel to travel with Colin Powell to Indonesia instead of Jeb Bush?
Time is short. Soon there will be no internet in which to voice our concerns ... I’m certain the Patriot Act II was meant to strip us of our freedom of speech.
Thank you again for letting me speak my piece. I’m just another human for Peace.
Posted by Maka Fairman on Jan 7, 2005 at 5:01 AM redstate,
Our ancestors were liberals…you know, Washington, Jefferson, Madison, Franklin, etc?
Can’t get more liberal than they were…fought against the King…raised their own army…wouldn’t pay taxes levied by the King.And I’m a liberal…damn proud to be their decendent, So, does that mean that you aren’t a true american if YOU aren’t a liberal?
Posted by golfervet on Jan 7, 2005 at 5:51 AM To Maka Fairman.
Your posting of 06Jan at 901pm was brilliant.
What needs to happen is for more men to be able to admit this truth.
In all of this, never let us forget it is aggressive straight white men who are denying the rest of us. It is greed, plain and simple.
Look at the airline industry. Oops. We’re strapped for cash (while we lower fares to levels NEVER seen before, literally) so we need to cut your pensions, reduce vacation time….
It is always the little guy who gets swallowed up. When will we realize we are all little guys, dependent on one another.
And only love matters. Only love, not tolerance, not acceptance, but truly loving one another will change things. We cannot shrink from those inconvenient feelings.
And I also agree with the comment that preceeded yours that stated that we all need to get upset and do something about this. No more stolen elections.
Anyone driving from San Francisco to Washington to protest the inauguration? Looking for a car pool.
Peace and love.
The people in this room represent the fact that we are better informed than those who live in regions dominated by Sinclair or Murdoch, which is the same as saying Bush, Cheney… But we all know that.
Posted by Ken Daves on Jan 7, 2005 at 6:29 PM Thank you kind sir ... and although I am a woman, I have been trained by some pretty fearless men, including my present husband who has taught me my more important spiritual lessons in love. If we could all stand down briefly to vision the larger picture, the future would seem quite dismal right now ... and I’m certain things are going to get pretty shaky soon. I, however, have faith that the universe is still unfolding as it should, and that we are all children of that cause. I’ve really savoured the warmth of some of the writer’s in this circle and may it continue to grow with the times we are living. Thank you all very much ... and yes, even you “redsnot”
Peace and Love
Maka
Posted by Maka Fairman on Jan 7, 2005 at 7:33 PM I was writing to a friend, and thought some of this would make sense here.
I would like to see if anyone else has anything to add about the ways they see deception as I note below with the airlines that may be a sign of further tipping the scale towards corporate health over individual well-being.
Here’s what I said to my friend, a million-miler on United, and an attorney. His response: AMEN.
You tell me….
Something very strange is, and has been, going on with the airlines for a little while now. (I’m thinking about 1990.) Fares have made no sense at all, which in and of itself is nothing new, but I think we’re reached a whole new level of crazy. 500.00 to LA on United, in COACH! and only 200.00 to New York. And this kind of insane fare structure has been the case for the last couple of months and has been bleeding towards getting worse, rather than stabilizing.
Delta lowered fares, now their competitors are trying to undercut that by matching. The industry is in the toilet, Continental announced that they will be out of cash by March if they can’t get concessions from their employees… I think it’s that last one that makes me wonder if an artificial situation is being created to justify the raping of employees. To reset things in the companies’ interests.
United is far and away the worst to their passengers, if for no other reason than they are larger than some of the smaller, more egregiously rude and incompetent airlines. (I will vouch that I don’t have as much experience with US Air, and I’m thankful for that.) Moving back here made me aware, in a way I hadn’t been before, just how much United has dominated the market in San Francisco, and lowered standards and reduced expectations. (If you ever hear of a flight cancelled because of a coffee maker, that was a United invention in the LA/SFO market back when they flew too many flights.)
I’m beginning to realize that the world maybe would be better without republican/democrats. I think we have to think of this pack in DC as all part of the same problem. The misbehavers and the enablers. Of course, there are exceptions.
There is an air, when considering the overall tone in conversation on the internet, that is sounding like the nexus of truly revolutionary thought. The pitch seems to be going up. People are feeling desperate. I get that just from forcing myself to read through what people have to say about what they’ve learned and come to understand about our country and its place in the world. People are beginning to question where our freedoms have gone, or if they ever really had them. And they’re much better informed than the popular media would ever want anyone to believe. They’ve gotten pretty good at sniffing out what not to believe.
Okay, rant’s done.
Ken
Posted by Ken Daves on Jan 8, 2005 at 12:14 AM I’ve been so busy thanking my senator, Barbara Boxer, the members of the Black Congressional Congress, Nancy Pelosi, that I’ve completely forgotten one of the most important people: Greg Palast.
When writing to Barbara Boxer, the hero, I remembered to urge her to stand behind her words and fight constantly to achieve election reform where every vote is verifiable, that every vote is counted, and that the removal of electronic voting systems which may not be verified.
Greg Palast is a leader in America. He represents the best in a concerned citizenry who takes action and inspires others to do so.
Along with many other great liberal voices of our immediate time, like Amy Goodman at DemocracyNOW! the staff at MotherJones, Al Franken (a modern Mark Twain with moxie,) and there are so many more! Greg Palast has shared his work and helped us better understand this battle we truly are all in. And they all have given voice to a generation that we can only hope will be freer and more powerful because of them. Goodness, I hope and pray, does eventually win. Or we all lose.
Democracy may be being smothered, but it is fighting like hell to survive. It is evident in all the pages of comments, many of which are quite moving and important. So many well-informed people. And the others, well, aren’t they the spoiled winners. And so, the struggle is just beginning.
What do you say we begin a voter registration drive to help secure a victory in the mid-terms so we can maybe nail some of this shit on the administration who shat it?
We need to make sure the voter rolls are clean and chock-full of Democrats. We need to get an enormous voter turn-out. Like 100% in places so that if the republicans want to use their computers to win, then virtually every precinct will end up with far more votes than voters. Expose them!
Then, in 2008, we need to look to replace the under-performing so-called-democrats. I’d say all but about 2 in the Senate need to be swapped out.
Move this party left, and let the moderates join the republicans, where they belong, to help bring some semblance of balance to those extreme assholes.
It is a lovely world. For now. Let’s keep it. Who knows where we go when we’re dead. Do we disappear from this earth? Inasmuch as everything on this planet is inter-connected, don’t you think it is the same all over the cosmos? Do you really believe you can escape your lives by dying? But what happens to us when the earth is gone?
We live and die. That is all. You will live, you will die. That is assigning an entity to death. You will be dead, and implicit in this is, in some way, you will still be you.
Isn’t it a wonder that we all have this language at it’s foundation that assumes our eternal nature?
So, maybe we know something we don’t understand. I bet, if there is a hell, it must be located in George Bush’s (pick one) heart. Gosh, I would hate to be him.
I think of God as the process of living and dying. Not as a judgmental entity. More as nature.
Posted by bushater2000-04 on Jan 8, 2005 at 4:52 AM You people are amazing. If there was anything questionable about the vote, don’t you think that the Democrats would have the power and money to do something about it? They want that Presidency and, if it were acheivable because the vote was tainted, they would make an attempt to prove it.
What I see here is a group of lib left people with no power beyond their single vote who, denied the prize, don’t consider that their candidate and his policies might not be to the liking of the average American - who has a great deal more good sense than the Democratic Party gives them credit for - and were thus defeated.
Do what real people do in a democracy - work towards winning the next election by developing policies which appeal to the voter. This endless whining about conspiracy and stolen elections is just a sop to poor losers and people who don’t have the intestinal fortitude to do the real work of democracy - in other words, poor losers who would rather whine and cry - ‘poor us’.
And for that twit who wrote the Joe Sixpack story? How much of that liberal largesse was paid for by conservative businessman and wealth ‘generating’ activities as opposed to wealth ‘wasting’ policies.
Grow up - stop your whining. The rest of your country is busy working, making America a better place. It’s time you people got with it.
Oh, and Iraq - damn, but looks like they’ll have a democracy and Bush will be revered in history for it. Bet that drives you nuts, doesn’t it?
Posted by W M on Feb 2, 2005 at 4:39 AM Please do yourself a favor, so that you can maybe speak from a position of knowledge and understanding, rather than attacking with what I consider to be a compliment. I do have a liberal mind.
Go to
http://www.emediawire.com/releases/2005/1/emw203331.htmOr you can find it on www.whatreallyhappened.com under the title: “Prominent Statisticians Refute ‘Explanation’ of 2004 U.S. Exit Poll Discrepancies in New Edison/Mitofsky Report and Urge Investigation of U.S. Presidential Election Results”. These are Universities. These people know.
I understand how difficult it is letting go of the reassurance we all feel at one time or another in our lives to depend on things that we see as greater than ourselves, but the media feeds lies to you. These people are only practicing their expertise.
I think it’s worth a viewing.
The way the election is couched can be summed up by a report that came out that showed bush’s huge gains in the black vote. Of course he did; if the official results were correct.
To speak about why bush won, what “moral values” drove voters to the polls, or basically, who won the election, without considering the likelihood that it was stolen, fixed, systematically, in a calculated way through non-auditable sources.
Only a mathematical study can reveal what was done to us.
It is there. Not meant to turn over the election. But to bring back our democracy. We cannot export what we do not have.
Further, and more importantly, it is those who wish to drag the party towards the right (Kerry, Clinton (both of them), Gore, etc…) who are comfortable with the stolen election. They are truly part of the problem. Kerry was, however it came about, part of the problem.
He is a loser. And there are people saying we democrats were too far to the left. That is based on the assumption of a very narrowly determined election in bush’s favor.
But I think, at this point, we have to be suspect of any conclusions anyone tries to draw from assumptions based on bush’s having won a legitimate election.
I think the 3 percent victory for Kerry would have been about right. No one like Kerry, but almost everyone with functioning morality detests bush and realizes he is far closer to satan than god.
And I say this to rude punks who wish to dumb down the arguments by evading the responsibility of employing their intellect: you are a verbal bully. When you are dead, you will look back at your remarks with shame at your advance of a liar; at having been duped by evil residing in a house of glass.
I think history will ultimately reveal that bush is the head of a major monster. Evil incarnate. The subversion of the peoples’ will animated in the callousness of luxury, lulling the dumb with a media that appeals to the same senses as pornography without the release, leaving us to spat out hate like a wetdream; energy wasted, lives lost while we sleep in ecstasy.
Posted by bushater2000-04 on Feb 2, 2005 at 6:30 AM To the poster WM:
“You people are amazing. If there was anything questionable about the vote, don’t you think that the Democrats would have the power and money to do something about it? They want that Presidency and, if it were acheivable because the vote was tainted, they would make an attempt to prove it.”Anything questionable about the vote? My, my, my, my, my, can you not read? Do you not think for yourself? EVERYTHING was questionable about the vote, the system we use to vote, and the voters! OBVIOUSLY DIEBOLD LIES. That’s the first thing to question.
“Do what real people do in a democracy - work towards winning the next election by developing policies which appeal to the voter. This endless whining about conspiracy and stolen elections is just a sop to poor losers and people who don’t have the intestinal fortitude to do the real work of democracy - in other words, poor losers who would rather whine and cry - ‘poor us’.”
There hasn’t been a “real” democracy in America since President Kennedy was assisinated. Where have you been? Of course there will be whining about ANOTHER STOLEN ELECTION, and we’ll whine louder, along with you, because our country has been completely taken over by a fascist dictator with evangelical problems and his Zionist bedfellows. Do you actually believe this government plans to lead you to better morals? Get a grip bubba. You’ve been hung out to dry like the rest of us.
“Oh, and Iraq - damn, but looks like they’ll have a democracy and Bush will be revered in history for it. Bet that drives you nuts, doesn’t it?”
Bush will be remembered in history alright ... but not with reverence. What drives me nuts is seeing the multitude of dead people that America is responsible for killing. Here’s what really drives me nuts at my age ...
Vietnam, Desert Storm, Iraq and who’s next? Americans have been asleep for 200 years! In awakening, we learn we’ve been used in a “plan” for global takeover. Americans ARE spoiled people, but most of us are not aware of that fact. Enlightened American’s don’t desire this takeover, so can this really be the plan?
The government is NOT America, and, AMERICAN’S have WORKED and PAID LIFETIME’S into the American dream, for their RIGHT’S, their PROTECTION’S, and mainly for their RETIREMENT’S. And though most Americans have never fully read the Constitution, they’ve fully TRUSTED THIS GOVERNMENT having been established for the well being of it’s citizens. American’s are taught this from birth.
Other nations were fooled by our government, but we were fooled too. Most American’s believe the TV. Is the media on government payroll? We know we have been fueled with toxins for food, introduced to hi-tech toys for experimentation and pleasure, lavished with imports, and given the “God’s” of our choice. We “fight for our freedoms,” while our government bathes in royalties from the spoils of wars. Are we merely human fodder to those who pretend to do us justice? So, Mr. Republican-fascist-moral-better-than-thou-type-citizen ... who is the real American enemy?
Before the axe falls on this country, I would like to apologize to GOD, and, to the REST OF THE WORLD, for America’s irresponsible ways; and for helping to deplete the precious resources for “someone’s” greedy advancement; for 25% of the world’s pollution; for blatant ignorance in religion and ethics; and most of all, for the true lack of concern for the rest of humanity and “life” in general, on this planet.
May God do what what he will to make things right, and forgive America, and the rest of the world who stood by and watched America’s cruelties to others; we know not what we’ve done. May there be justice, and may it not be in the hands of man.
Maka
Posted by Maka Fairman on Feb 2, 2005 at 6:13 PM The Secret Covenant of the Illuminati
An illusion it will be, so large, so vast, it will escape their perception.
Those who will see it will be thought of as insane.
We will create separate fronts to prevent them from seeing the connection between us.
We will behave as if we are not connected to keep the illusion alive.
Our goal will be accomplished one drop at a time so as to never bring suspicion upon our selves.
This will also prevent them from seeing the changes as they occur.
We will always stand above the relative field of their experience for we know the secrets of the absolute.
We will work together always and will remain bound by blood and secrecy.
Death will come to he who speaks.
We will keep their lifespan short and their minds weak while pretending to do the opposite.
We will use our knowledge of science and technology in subtle ways so they will never see what is happening.
We will use soft metals, aging accelerators and sedatives in food and water; also in the air.
They will be blanketed by poisons everywhere they turn.
The soft metals will cause them to lose their minds.
We will promise to find a cure from our many fronts, yet we will feed them more poison.
The poisons will be absorbed through their skin and mouths; they will destroy their minds and reproductive systems.
From all this, their children will be born dead, and we will conceal this information.
The poisons will be hidden in everything that surrounds them, in what they drink, eat, breathe and wear.
We must be ingenious in dispensing the poisons for they can see far.
We will teach them that the poisons are good, with fun images and musical tones.
Those they look up to will help.
We will enlist them to push our poisons.
They will see our products being used in film and will grow accustomed to them and will never know their true effect.
When they give birth we will inject poisons into the blood of their children and convince them it’s for their help.
We will start early on, when their minds are young, we will target their children with what children love most, sweet things.
When their teeth decay we will fill them with metals that will kill their mind and steal their future.
When their ability to learn has been affected, we will create medicine that will make them sicker and cause other diseases for which we will create yet more medicine.
We will render them docile and weak before us by our power.
They will grow depressed, slow and obese, and when they come to us for help, we will give them more poison.
We will focus their attention toward money and material goods so they many never connect with their inner self.
We will distract them with fornication, external pleasures and games so they may never be one with the oneness of it all.
Their minds will belong to us and they will do as we say.
If they refuse we shall find ways to implement mind-altering technology into their lives.
We will use fear as our weapon.
We will establish their governments and establish opposites within.
We will own both sides.
We will always hide our objective but carry out our plan.
They will perform the labor for us and we shall prosper from their toil.
Our families will never mix with theirs.
Our blood must be pure always, for that is the way.
We will make them kill each other when it suits us.
We will keep them separated from the oneness by dogma and religion.
We will control all aspects of their lives and tell them what to think and how.
We will guide them kindly and gently letting them think they are guiding themselves.
We will foment animosity between them through our factions.
When a light shall shine among them, we shall extinguish it by ridicule, or death,
whichever suits us best.We will make them rip each other’s hearts apart and kill their own children.
We will accomplish this by using hate as our ally, anger as our friend.
The hate will blind them totally, and never shall they see that from their conflicts we emerge as their rulers.
They will be busy killing each other.
They will bathe in their own blood and kill their neighbors for as long as we see fit.
We will benefit greatly from this, for they will not see us, for they cannot see us.
We will continue to prosper from their wars and their deaths.
We shall repeat this over and over until our ultimate goal is accomplished.
We will continue to make them live in fear and anger though images and sounds.
We will use all the tools we have to accomplish this.
The tools will be provided by their labor.
We will make them hate themselves and their neighbors.
We will always hide the divine truth from them; that we are all one.
This they must never know!They must never know that color is an Illusion.
They must always think they are not equal.
Posted by Maka Fairman on Feb 7, 2005 at 2:49 AM Drop by drop, drop by drop we will advance our goal.
We will take over their land, resources and wealth to exercise total control over them.
We will deceive them into accepting laws that will steal the little freedom they will have.
We will establish a money system that will imprison them forever, keeping them and their children in debt.
When they shall ban together, we shall accuse them of crimes and present a different story to the world for we shall own all the media.
We will use our media to control the flow of information and their sentiment in our favor.
When they shall rise up against us we will crush them like insects, for they are less than that.
They will be helpless to do anything for they will have no weapons.
We will recruit some of their own to carry out our plans.
We will promise them eternal life, but eternal life they will never have for they are not of us.
The recruits will be called “initiates” and will be indoctrinated to believe false rites of passage to higher realms.
Members of these groups will think they are one with us never knowing the truth.
They must never learn this truth for they will turn against us.
For their work they will be rewarded with earthly things and great titles, but never will they become immortal and join us.
Never will they receive the light and travel the stars.
They will never reach the higher realms, for the killing of their own kind will prevent passage to the realm of enlightenment.
This they will never know.
The truth will be hidden in their face, so close they will not be able to focus on it until its too late.
Oh yes, so grand the illusion of freedom will be, that they will never know they are our slaves.
When all is in place, the reality we will have created for them will own them.
This reality will be their prison.
They will live in self-delusion.
When our goal is accomplished a new era of domination will begin.
Their minds will be bound by their beliefs, the beliefs we have established from time immemorial.
But if they ever find out they are our equal, we shall perish then.
THIS THEY MUST NEVER KNOW.
If they ever find out that together they can vanquish us, they will take action.
They must never, ever find out what we have done, for if they do, we shall have no place to run, for it will be easy to see who we are once the veil has fallen.
Our actions will have revealed who we are and they will hunt us down and no person shall give us shelter.
This is the secret covenant by which we shall live the rest of our present and future lives, for this reality will transcend many generations and life spans.
This covenant is sealed by blood, our blood.
We, the ones who from heaven to earth came.
This covenant must NEVER, EVER be known to exist.
It must NEVER, EVER be written or spoken of for if it is, the consciousness it will spawn will release the fury of the PRIME CREATOR upon us and we
shall be cast to the depths from whence we came and remain there until the end time of infinity itself.
Posted by Maka Fairman on Feb 7, 2005 at 2:49 AM Page 1 of 1 pages -
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