When members of the Army’s 343rd Quartermaster Company refused orders in Iraq last month they considered too dangerous, it didn’t surprise Michael Hoffman. He had expected something like this. Hoffman, 25, went to Iraq with the Marines, then returned to help found Iraq Veterans Against the War this past July. “When [soldiers] are asked to put their life on the… return to article
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Reader Comments (45)Page 1 of 1 pagesMany many people opposed WWII at the time. Does anyone here remember how Roosevelt tricked us into that war? Does anyone here still care that he used deceit to further his ends? Sometimes the ends must be considered along with the means. And when talking about the Iraqi war, we all should remember how horrible Iraq was before the war. . .
Wars are rarely popular, but may (or may not) be necessary.
Posted by justToSayTheObcious on Nov 30, 2004 at 9:27 AM The United States does not invade countries that do not pose a DIRECT threat to our interests or REQUESTED us to invade.
This is a FUNDAMENTAL change in US Policy and it was done by bypassing Congress.
It’s a War by your own admission...well...there is DIRECT Congressional Approval Required BY THE CONSTITUTION for the President to DECLARE War. If you remember...there was no DIRECT declaration of war.
This Administration has destroyed the credibility of this country as a MORAL voice in the world, it has made a shambles of the Geneva Convention by playing games with language and redefining POWs as “enemy combatants”..WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT!
Regardless of the outcome of this “war”, George Bush will go down in AMERICAN history as the one elected official to have done more to damage the Constitution than any other elected official in the country’s history.
Posted by Liberal AND Proud on Nov 30, 2004 at 10:38 AM LAP,
let’s not forget sanctioning torture and humiliation in an attempt to get information out of people that probably didn’t know anything to begin with. Leaving aside all the arguments that torture doesn’t even garner useful information (people wil say whatever you want in order to get them to stop) those pictures from Abu Ghraib sickened me.
When all the details finally come out of Guantanamo we’ll be sickened even further.
p.s. Bush is in Canada today and we’re serving him Alberta beef :)
Posted by lefty canuck on Nov 30, 2004 at 11:47 AM I wish i had someof your future “history” books! Must be nice to know how the world will turn out. I guess the current administration is full of dummies and sycophants, too bad they could not get a “real” thinker like some of the posters here. :)
As for sickening photos, see the results of the insurgents. See how they target anyone, women and children included. But perhaps some see the US as “just as bad”? Maybe even worse? LOL!
Since y’all know future history, got any stock tips?
Posted by howFunny on Nov 30, 2004 at 2:17 PM I am a proud veteran of four years in the US Navy, but I’m feeling a lot less pride than I used to. I would seriously consider going AWOL in Canada if I were still in the service. The United States used to hold itself to a higher standard than other countries and political systems. I remember the horror stories of how our guy who were POWs in Viet Nam were brutally tortured, and we were always able to take the moral high ground..."Oh, we would NEVER do such things.” Well, old Georgie Porgie has trashed that way of thinking...we’re no better than anyone now, and a lot worse than most. I pray that W gets a “message from God” telling him to end this insanity before someone DOES start raining nukes on the US.
Posted by riki on Nov 30, 2004 at 2:28 PM Soldiers NEVER get to pick the conflicts they are involved in. The orders always come from the top down. There is no draft - people who cannot stand the thought of being involved in a war should not enlist. Those that do MUST serve, regardless of their opinions on the particular conflict of the day.
The US is the absolute worst country in the world. Except for all the rest.
I am a very proud American. As it should be i am willing to die fighting for my right of freedom of speech. And your as well.
Posted by LtCol on Nov 30, 2004 at 2:41 PM The children...are starving at a faster pace than BEFORE the invasion.
And my vision of the future is just as good as any vision this administration used to justify going into this country.
Remember...we’ll be greeted with flowers?
The young men and women of our military have been betrayed. They have been put into the line of fire for no good reason, without OUR national interest being threatened, and without ANY plan for success or withdrawal.
Posted by Liberal AND Proud on Nov 30, 2004 at 3:12 PM It’s impossible to know what might have been, but I imagine to myself what the national mood and the level of military esprit de corps would be like today if the resources devoted to the Iraq debacle had been aimed at Afghanistan instead. As it is, we have two under-manned, under-equipped wars (and state-building projects) going on at the same time, neither of which is living up to the assurances given to the peoples of Iraq, Afghanistan, and America. It’s increasingly impossible for the troops in either location to protect themselves or the locals they’re supposedly there to benefit. Hell, they can’t even depend that they’ll be issued a flack jacket! And rather than weakening the appeal of America’s enemy al-Qaeda for young Muslim men around the world, Iraq is strengthening their case, making future conflicts all the more certain and numerous. It’s ironic that the people who have questioned the justification for Iraq have been called “unsupportive” of the military and “unpatriotic”, while policies that spread soldiers too thinly and impair their ability to protect themselves are said to deserve support as a duty of patriotism. Who really supports the troops? Is it those who reflexively back the President no matter what the facts are on the ground, or those who are indignant that their sons, daughters, and friends are sent ill-equipped into a war for which the justification has been shown to be non-existent? Worst of all, if Iraq as a project was to be abandoned at this point, it would only foster chaos and feed the spread of religious and political militancy. Has Bush and his team set up conditions that will actually make Saddam Hussein look good by comparison? I fear they may have.
Posted by Kuya on Nov 30, 2004 at 7:47 PM I used to be a proud American and could be once again if our government started acting quite a bit less fascist. Our soldiers are dying for a lie. That sickens me.
With every Abu Ghraib and Mosque shooting picture that comes out we create 100,000 more terrorists. Anyone who thinks this shithole of a war is making us safer is either on halucinogens or should be. We’ll be paying for this mistake for at least a generation.
The War Plan is a joke. Cotex-In-Chief Bush and Secretary of Defense Cumsmelled seriously screwed the pooch on that one. If you haven’t seen “Uncovered, The War on Iraq” ya gotta see it.
Things were supposed to get better once we took Baghdad, then after we got Loosey and Goosey (or whatever Saddam’s sons were named), then it was gonna get better after we caught Saddam, then once we “turned over” the government to the Iraqi people, then once we “liberated Fallujah”. No, no, no, no and hell no were the outcomes of those events for those of you keeping score. Now we are hoping the elections will do the trick. Just a guess, but I’m thinkin’ no here as well.
It’s not gonna get better until we leave. And they may still have a civil war to take care of then (if it doesn’t happen right after the elections). The only questions left are how long it takes us to get the hell out, and how many more must die. Looks like we are in for at least 4 more years of it.
It’s a fuckin’ tragedy.
Posted by Mattdog on Nov 30, 2004 at 7:54 PM I.E.,religeous extremists willing to do anything to destroy the great “satan”.sound familiar?
Posted by mike on Nov 30, 2004 at 8:39 PM the ‘only’ diference is that we have a superior military,technologically speaking,which depends on the fossil fuels that belong to the ‘evil’ people that we are fighting. ironic,isn’t it.I fear that it is we who are in fact the evil ones.it is we,who justify killing 100,000 of them in response to ‘them’ killing 3,000 of us.100,000 of them who weren’t even responsible for our 3,000 lost.the FACTS support this.how can any of us justify this? HOW?
Posted by mike on Nov 30, 2004 at 8:56 PM any of you CHICKENhawks out ther got any kind of a response?
Posted by mike on Nov 30, 2004 at 8:59 PM If(Vietnam - Lt. Bush)=0 and (Iraq + Pres. Bush)=0, then (Vietnam - Lt. Bush)=(Iraq + Pres. Bush). Assume (Vietnam=Iraq). What must “Bush” be?
Posted by Mark Cartwright on Nov 30, 2004 at 11:44 PM Not to be forgotten, despite the relentless associating of al-Qaeda with Saddam from Cheney et al, there just aint no such thing. Murderous bastard though he is, Hussein was an enemy of al-Qaeda; bin Laden and Zarqawi were probably toasting demitasses of coffee in Quetta while the Coalition of the Misled were roaring across the desert thinking to “shock and awe” the Iraqis. The incredible civilian death toll of Iraq stands on its own, it can’t legitimately be seen as retaliation for 9/11, despite what the White House tried to assert.
Posted by Kuya on Nov 30, 2004 at 11:52 PM “...and up from the ground came a bubblin’ crude. Oil that is, black gold, Texas tea...”
Iraqi saki? Tigris tequila? Mesopotamian mudslide?
There’s a justification for ya, comrades. Two f’n SUVs in every f’n garage! Gotta get them gas prices below $2.00 a gallon. If the Repubs do that, they won’t even have to campaign in 2008, they’ll slide back into 1600 Penn Av. slicker than snot on a doorknob!
Shocking it will be, but not awesome…
Posted by Kuya on Dec 1, 2004 at 12:06 AM “who justify killing 100,000 of them “
The 100,000 is a bogus figure. A more reasonable guess might be ~15,000. Many (most?) of which were the victims of the “insurgents”. (Man it must be rough - these mean guys come in, depose a murderous madman, and then start building schools, drilling water wells, etc. I have to wonder how it would have gone had the rest of the world cooperated?)
(There were 73 violent deaths uncovered in the Lancet study—61 caused by America, and of those 61, 58 came from air strikes. These 73 deaths were then extrapolated to **100,000**!!! IBC (Iraqi Body Count) guess is ~15,000.)
An interesting question one can ponder is: Did more Iraqis die as a result of the war than would have under Iraq’s prewar situation? From what i can tell, the answer is almost certainly no. But who cares about Iraqis anyway? Those of us against the war were perfectly content to allow Saddam to slaughter **millions** with nary a peep. . .
(As for the inane “are we becoming what we claim we are fighting”, let’s see. Freedom of the press? Check. Freedom of religion? Check. Shredding people with plastic shredders? Nope. Shooting political opponents? Nope. Looks like we are very safe from that “threat”. LOL! :)
Posted by whatIsTheDeathToll on Dec 1, 2004 at 1:41 PM Civilians killed in war: 15,000-100,000
Cost of war to US taxpayers: $150 billion
Conservative’s lame-ass attempt to justify the war: PRICELESS
Posted by Mattdog on Dec 1, 2004 at 3:28 PM I happen to agree with Mattdog. Why should the US ever even attempt to help any other nations, however vilely they are being run? I say, let the ragheads suffer! They are used to death and besides why should we waste perfectly good dollars - and much worse - precious American blood! - for their kind?
Nuke ‘um (or just isolate/contain them, like the diseased society they are) and let Allah sort out the mess! Lets get the US back to its roots - isolationism (and damn free trade too!).
Posted by ofCourse on Dec 1, 2004 at 3:59 PM 15,000 or 100,000,what difference does it make? these people DIDN’T ATTACK US!!!there is no way to justify this war,no way to justify killing these people.
Posted by mike on Dec 1, 2004 at 4:14 PM Finally, a true conservative in the mold of Pat Buchanan shows up to add some racist flavor to the discussion. I’m just so (sniffle, sniffle) proud to be an Americuhn. Sure was nice of us to help them other nations kill their people cuz we gots bigger bombs.
Wow, that’s really cool how your IQ and age are interchangeable (means they’re the same) like that.
Posted by Mattdog on Dec 1, 2004 at 4:35 PM When you find yourself making the same arguments that prominent Nazi leaders were executed for at Nuremberg ... do you imagine that yes, you’re a Nazi too?
Posted by Doraemi on Dec 1, 2004 at 6:17 PM where are these schools,water wells,etc.?in bagdad? in fallujah?where?we’ve leveled fallujah.people are starving and dying of thirst there.it’s like if a group of people come to your town,city,or whatever,and destroying every thing there,and then they drill a well,and then say,see, we’ve made things better for you.would you be grateful?only if your an idiot who believes everything your told.the question of whether more iraqis died of the war than would have died otherwise is one of the dumbest questions and one of the most LAME rationals ever given for this war.yes,sadaam did kill his own people,but now we are doing it.how can you rationalize that?’we’ll give you freedom even if it means killing every last one of you.’that’s bush’s policy and what everyone who supports what we’re doing over there is supporting.and by the way, the 100,000 number is estimated by various independent groups,and as such, is probably a lot more accurate than the official numbers fed to us by our fearless leaders,who we already know lie through there teeth to us. so keep mindlessly spouting the party line and keep showing how unbelievably stupid you are.
Posted by mike on Dec 1, 2004 at 8:47 PM Without the sanctions, Saddam would have gone down like Pinochet, Somoza, Galtieri, Stroessner, Batista, Mobutu, the USSR, the South African apartheid regime (a good comparison, actually), and so many others. It’s eerie how these trolls making previous posts still believe the “war of liberation” line. Have you ever noticed how overwhelmingly unpopular the war is in Latin America?
Posted by AtheistPeace on Dec 1, 2004 at 11:41 PM I’m angry that my country is in lockdown about the reasons for the war.
Israel and American Jews crafted a racist view of Muslims in movies and television.
We are all Palestinians now, with Jews in all the watchtowers of America, ready to destroy anyone in media who dares to say so.
We are the occupied nation. And until we stand up to foreign occupation of our government, we are little more than cannon fodder for racist Jews in Palestine.
Posted by karen ladik on Dec 2, 2004 at 2:50 AM To those who have vile comments like nuke them all have got to be the most mindless of them all. Learn your history and feed your useless mind. The rest of the world is far more educated on history,and far more informed than most Americans. It’s very embarrasing. Read more please. And don’t rely on CNN. The mouthpieces of the Bush croud is dumbing down alot of people. So wake up America! Carmen
Posted by Carmen on Dec 2, 2004 at 6:49 AM On the subject of Nazism.
Hannity and Colmes has a “former CIA” operative, his name escapes me right now, on their show last nite.
The discussion was about torture and the situation in Gitmo and the disregard for the Geneva Convention.
Here’s the quote justifying American behavior and policy.
“These people are sub-humans with no understanding or appreciation for life and values...”
Sub humans...hmm...sound familiar to anyone out there?
Posted by Liberal AND Proud on Dec 2, 2004 at 7:26 AM “..DeathToll” must get his stats from the Drudge Report, Rush “doper hipocrite” Limbaugh etc. We helped Saddam slaughter millions! Guess he has’nt seen the pic of Rumsfeld and Saddam shaking hands when Saddam was “the enemy of our enemy”. Now we don’t need his help! We got our own lame-ass lie of an excuse (except for the FACT that Iraq NEVER DID AND COULD NOT ATTACK US!) Still can’t understand why they are’nt throwing flowers at us, what with all the schools and water and medicine and whatever else he imagines are sprouting up everywhere that the damn “liberal media” isn’t and so does’nt report (gag!)? More Iraqis have died from “insurgents” than U.S. tanks, guns and bombs ("smart" ones too!), etc? Gimme a fuckin break! Obviously DT has’nt been in the military and seen what a 2000 lb. “smart” bomb can (and cannot...kill enemy only with absolutly no civilian casualties) do...I have! He obviously can’t see our freedoms being shredded by the Patriot act(s) either! And the conservative “christian” right-wing nut-jobs have been trying to politicaly assasinate their opponents with zeal! I agree with Carmen...America needs to wake up and open it’s eyes and get informed by other than the “liberal” corporate run media! It’s not hard to do...you have a great tool in front of you now! Use it!
P.S. Loved Mark Cartwright’s formula (Dec 1 post)!!
Posted by TheDood on Dec 2, 2004 at 7:50 AM I would like to know how did this administration come about calling insurgent a terrorist and none Iraqi as a Foriegn Fighers?
lets look at the facts:
Arab fighters and insurgents, are in fact most of them musilms, speaks arabic and most of them are Arabs sharing the same culture and all.
While the invaders who do not speak Arabic, none arab and none muslims.so WHO IS THE FORIEGNER HERE?
we have gone thousands of miles to kill and destroy a nation which done nothing to us.
and the administration and the press still wonders WHY DO THEY HATE US? Helloooooooooo.
they should be held accountable, after all
WHEN CLINTON LIED, NO ONE DIED.
Posted by An American on Dec 2, 2004 at 8:42 AM When there’s a God-damned (and I use the term advisedly) Shia revolution in southern Iraq, secession and union with Iran and all that will follow, maybe they’ll start to get the rules of history, but by then, so much damage and despair, more of this “clash of civilizations” nonsense, so avoidable.
Posted by Kuya on Dec 2, 2004 at 9:08 AM Re; posting by of course Dec 1. It is idiotic morons like yourself that have enabled the Israelis to lead around the USA like a jackass to do its heavy lifting and dying to make life safer for “the settlers”. We are not wasting our lives and treasure and civil liberties for the “ragheads”, you fool, but for our “only friend” in the world.
Posted by James on Dec 2, 2004 at 10:04 AM Dear Red State American Public, My Fellow ‘Mericans, I was wrong. Sorry but you know how it is with dyslexia, and being the town idiot for so long-- I jest got it wrong. Well, not me… God. God got it wrong. Because of that son-of-a-bitch Bill Clinton, and that blow-job. God told me yesterday he was sorry-- and that we should pull out of Iraq… well not pull out, but turn right. She meant IRAN. Spelling error. She came to me in the middle of the night, in the embodiment of Ms Rice and corrected her spelling error, she called me Daddy and then Hubby, and then jumped into the bed with me and the old-ball-’n-chain. Don’t worry, we are whoppin the heck out of the gay anti-gun folks, so please send us another 20,000 of your unaborted 18-year-old fetuses, because we’re getting a little bogged down in Wolfowitz’s flowers and jew-bulation (hey Wolfy, a jewish joke!)
Posted by Helen Highwater on Dec 2, 2004 at 12:16 PM If you ask Vick about the Falcons...I’m sure you’ll hear great comments. Same with Favre...he’ll have wonderful things to say about Green bay. They are on the same team. you have to get independent analysis to to find out injury reports, key acquisitions...the whole nine.
Take our media,,,namely FOX. WHen hae they ever been objective about us. How come every other nation is in agreement that we are the agressor & not liberator. My bad...Poland, UK, & Australia are w/ us...so no QUITE the whole world (smile). Question...who is the only nation ever to use atomic bombs?? That’s like Giambi speaking out against steroids....a sham! YET...we over here are so arrogant to think that we are above others. This same rhetoric is preached by so-called Christians…
We ALL are being duped...some have already smelled the coffee...the others are either evil, ignorant (not in a malicious sense), or plain ole stupid (in a malicious sense).
Posted by Atlien on Dec 2, 2004 at 12:44 PM I’m with Atlien, I read the WSJ, but temper it with CBS and guardian.com. I watch FOX, and then check out antiwar.com and buzzflash and bushwatch. The sliver of a majority that voted W into office (sadly the 25 lowest IQ states were all found to be blue), were tugged along by their wedge issue noserings, homosexual wedlock, gun registration, fried twinkies--- not by their support of our fun-and-games in Iraq. The American public (including we of faith and those of us with children in the military) does not by ANY NUMBERS support the war effort.
Buchanan, a man I rarely agree with, has made some very CONSERVATIVE points--- real conservatives deplore chasing other country’s problems.... when in this picture did the GOP become the NEO-war-mongering DEMOCRATS of the current administration.
THE GOP HAS BEEN HIJACKED...jump off the ship.
Posted by Mark on Dec 2, 2004 at 1:03 PM As a proud American, I am happy that we finally found and removed the weapons of torture from the Iraqi prison. It turns out that the weapons were cameras, and since they have been confiscated you will all notice that there are no more pictures of torture.
Send a list of liberal websites to all of your conservative friends. Ask them to read a report from each site each day, and in return do the same for them on sites they name.
Reading both sides, American and off-shore, conservative and liberal, most people can find the truth if they are looking for it.
Posted by Polly Gahn on Dec 2, 2004 at 1:16 PM Iraqi body count comes up with their numbers by; 1)confirmed death from a morgue or hospital. 2) Two members of the media reporting a death. Now one might ask how many people take their family members to hospitals or morgues under the current conditions and how many in the media come out of the green zone in pairs of 2. The Lancet report is not exact as was stated in the report but was a survey of the Iraqi public from many different areas. The scary part was the Lancet did say 100,000 was a conservative number.
Posted by Dorothy Schwartz on Dec 2, 2004 at 2:50 PM Mark...great points. Instead of pointing fingers, we should ALL realize that we are being duped for the advancement of a few. Nevermind the death toll of humans that had nothing to do with 911 in Haiti, Iraq, & Afghanistan (a country hat has been decimated by civil war for 20-25 years now..that also has the UNOCAL pipeling plans running straight thru it froim the Indian Ocean). Nevermind that Saddam was torturing his people with chemicals from many US corps when he was OUR ally in 82-83. Nevermind that Israel & Suadi Arabia have been involved in countless acts of terror. Nevermind that Iraq happens to sit on the 2nd largest oil reserve in the world. Nevermind that OUR agencies have yet to find a link to Saddam & Bin Laden...the 1st pretext of many for our invasion. Nevermind that the CONSERVATIVE govt has spent more than any other administartion...yet liberal (unfairly labeled) are always thought of in this light. Nevermind the jobs lost & continued job losses! Yet, Like Mark alluded to...Roe vs Wade & Bill kissing Steve somehow matters more. I too am a person of faith & morals, but also a person with a brain capable of objectivity.
Posted by Atlien on Dec 2, 2004 at 3:02 PM Read this quote and then see if you know the subject of the quote and who said it.
“The ‘rebels’ or ‘freedom fighters’ are part of a nationwide ‘resistance movement.’ While many of them are local, even tribal, and fight simply because they are outraged by the occupation of their country, hundreds of others among the ‘resistance fighters’ – young Arabs – are arriving from as far away as ‘Lebanon, Syria, Egypt and Jordan,’ not to speak of Saudi Arabia and Algeria, to engage in jihad, ready as one of them puts it, to stay in the war ‘until I am martyred.’ Fighting for their ‘Islamic ideals,’ ‘they are inspired by a sense of moral outrage and a religious devotion heightened by frequent accounts of divine miracles in the war.’ They slip across the country’s borders to fight the ‘invader’ and the ‘puppet government’ its officials have set up in the capital in their ‘own image.’ The invader’s sway, however, ‘extends little beyond the major cities, and even there the… freedom fighters often hold sway by night and sometimes even by day.’
The subject is the war in Afghanistan against the Soviets and the quote is from the New York Times 1988. Seems these Arabs were called “freedom fighters” when they were fighting the Russians but become “insurgents” and “murderers” when they fight Americans for the same reason!
Posted by CSM on Dec 2, 2004 at 8:05 PM What this war on Iraq is all about?Who is behind the idea?When this idea arised?And why just Iraq?
Forget about the invasion of Kuwait,even forget about the pretended WMD,the oil...etc..etc…
The story you never find on the net.Soon I have to post it here from a hidden agenda,to write it down here.Perhaps some wise people will agree and others just ignore it.
Posted by Falcon on Dec 2, 2004 at 11:33 PM It’s time to admit it: A significant portion of America, including virtually *all* who hold the reigns of power in both public and private sectors (not that there’s a dime’s worth of difference between “public” and “private” sectors anymore) have fallen under the spell of Fascism. It’s an infatuation that won’t be leaving us anytime soon. Just a few years ago, I was routinely ridiculed and scorned by conservatives and liberals alike for my warnings about the imminent emergence of a Fascist majority. Not surprisingly, that doesn’t happen much anymore, and it’s not because I stopped talking about it.
Person by person, institution by institution, Americans have turned to the welcoming arms of Fascism. Paternalistic authority, always strong and never wrong. The hubris of infallibility. The treacherous illusion of security. The culture of victimization used to justify the most shameful and inhumane acts we perpetrate against ourselves and others. Rejecting accountability, critical thought and self-examination, we are on a mission of greed and self-indulgence that makes The Gilded Age look like FDR’s New Deal.
As someone who served in the United States military, I find it profoundly tragic to witness our heartbreaking descent into the quicksand of hate-fueled ideology which so many Americans find moral and virtuous. I wouldn’t want to be the soldier-turned-killer or the maimed warrior who, further down the road, comes to understand the extent to which he or she has been deceived by Important People With Self-Serving Agendas, those who scream for sacrifices to be made by anyone other than themselves. At least the dead won’t have to ponder that; they’ll leave families and friends behind to do it for them.
America has always been a violent, conflicted nation, but at least we used to agree, by and large, on our IDEALS… on what we *aspired* to be. Now, even that is gone and we are content to fill that infinite void with fear and hatred, blood, death and misery.
We had our chance for true greatness in the decades following World War II and did fairly well for a while. But with the rise of Neo-Conservatism and its insidious stranglehold on virtually all American institutions, our window of opportunity has, in the blink of an eye, slammed shut. Factoring in another major attack on U.S. soil - and we all know one is inevitable - there is little reason to be hopeful about America’s future. The only real question is whether to fight - which means fighting each other - or fleeing to friendlier lands, assuming you’re fortunate enough to find one and navigate the rigors of such a life-changing transition.
I’ve made my decision. Good luck making yours.
Posted by S.G. Smith on Dec 3, 2004 at 7:26 AM The best perspective piece I’ve found on Iraq is here: http://thecommonills.blogspot.com/2004/12/should-this-marriage-be-saved.html
I thought it boiled the large issue down into a simple narrative.
Posted by Elaine Williams on Dec 3, 2004 at 10:33 AM nam v iraq
http://www.lies.com/images/first_year.gif
Posted by Hellraiser on Dec 3, 2004 at 10:50 AM very photogenic, dont you think ?
http://www2.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/handshake300.jpg
Posted by Hellraiser on Dec 3, 2004 at 10:53 AM It is fascinating to see the level of denial in the defenders of Bush. They really want to be the “good guys” in spite of all evidence and against every account. Every time we commit overkill we are generating geometrically increasing numbers of people who are committed to avenging their loss on our troops. Just part of the Bush plan to try to rationalize the American swipe at the “Great Game” European powers have been playing since the 19th century. We even have our own “Good Germans” who will follow orders they know to be illegal and morally wrong. God save those men when they return to the US and the yellow ribbons start to fall off the hulking suv’s of the soft and overprivileged WalMart shoppers of our great nation.
Posted by Whiskey Tango Foxtrot on Dec 6, 2004 at 3:10 AM Because the POTUS is incapable and/or too mentally lazy to process anything but simplistic ideas, complex problems are treated with an exceedingly simplistic and vulgar solution, i.e. unjustified war.
Our poor soldiers are caught in a metastasizing conflict which has quickly spread throughout the invaded Iraqi land. Bush et al keep throwing aspirin at the problem, blaming everyone except themselves when the aspirin doesn’t kill the cancer that this war has created. They are killing the patient with their deadly remedy.
Here’s a concept even our simpleminded POTUS should be able to wrap his mind around: War begets war. Thanks alot, Mr. President. Thanks for allowing your religious convictions to justify launching The Great American Crusades. King Richard the Bloodthirsty Warwhore would be proud.
Posted by Constitution Is My Bible on Dec 7, 2004 at 12:11 PM Page 1 of 1 pages -
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