“Moral values” has become the hot-button phrase since November 2. To counter the implication that progressives have no “morals” or “values,” In These Times conducted an informal survey of its online audience to determine how progressives define themselves and their principles. The survey, Progressive Priorities, also asked readers to identify the top issues and strategies progressives should focus on during the… return to article
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Reader Comments (24)Page 1 of 1 pagesTo better expand on this issue - I’d like to see a comprehensive and balanced survey of volunteers and workers for groups like the Red Cross, Doctors w/o Borders, CARE, UNICEF, Peace Corps, Shelters/soup kitchens (both religious and non-religious)... basically people at the front-lines of non-profit groups that provide services to the poor, hungry, the sick, the addicted who are US citizens and voted in the last election. I think this would speak louder and create its own story, be it for the right or left mouthpieces - I’ll reserve my judgement for who would win this survey.
The moral value thing is starting to blow in the wind anyways, the actual numbers on that are below 10% from what I’ve read, well below the war and economy in the polling and not to mention the uncertainty over the exit polling anyways.
Posted by dzn on Jan 4, 2005 at 6:16 PM Good going to raise the issue!!! Ceding the “moral” high ground” to people who think it’s ok to poison our childrens’ air and drinking water has been our greatest strategic weakness. It’s time to get tough and hit them head on with “family values” such as health care and the environment. Voting irregularities aside, these issues are low-hanging fruit that could tip the balance. They appeal to a broad array of republicans and democrats alike [as well as 3rd party candidates] and the Rove people have left themselves wide open - due to the inherent nature of what this administration says vs. what it does this is perhaps our only chance. Considering that Karl Rove is probably the most intense, sharpest political strategist of our time this is no small opportunity. Too bad hindsight is 20/20; but good thing there is always 2006, 2008, 2010, 2012. . . . . .
Posted by Ed Mellon on Jan 5, 2005 at 9:43 PM I am pro-choice and also believe that we should be taking care of the environment this is gods country not ours and for the conservative christian right to assult the christian faith with corruption by telling people that those who voted for Bush were christians and those who didnt were pagen. Does he have any idea that their were millions of christians that did not vote for Bush? does he not understand that the bible just doesnt talk about gays and abortion like it is the only moral issue in the bible. Do they know that god does not want them to impose their religious views on others through the political system? this is why the supreme court judicial nomination is so important. we cant afford this group or any other group to take over and blame Hollywood for their problems or that of the United States we know what the bible says they dont and that is something that the Democrats/progressives are gonna have to relate to the red states as well as the blue states. Economic issues are moral issues.
Posted by Cheryl Johnson on Jan 7, 2005 at 9:54 AM There was an article in today’s San Diego Union Tribune announcing that San Diego County is the 2nd-worst in the US for affording to buy a home. San Diego ranked second behind Santa Barbara-Santa Maria-Lompoc area with a median home price of $470,000.
With home prices out of reach for most people and rents just as equally out of proportion to income there is little hope that most people can improve their financial status enough to climb out of this deep hole in their lifetime.
Last week on one of the evening news programs it was reported that consumer borrowing debt tops $9 trillion. Yes, $9 trillion. However, massive borrowing in the Bush administration plus $1.35 trillion in tax cuts for the wealthiest 1% of the population have set the tone for runaway greed, the likes of which have never been seen under any previous president. But Bush set the standard for his avaricious administration when, shortly after the 9/11 hijack bombings of the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, he exhorted all Americans to “Spend.”
Though the Bush administration and the Bureau of Labor Statistics show job growth rising to 157,000 in the past month other experts explain that the job market needs to add a minimum of 150,000 workers just to keep up with the new population entering the work force.Even so, job numbers don’t tell more than half the story. In much of the job growth in San Diego, for example, about 40% of the jobs are literally McJobs, jobs that are at the lower end of the wage spectrum. None of these people taking the bare minimum wage jobs can afford a home nor can a single family of four live much above the poverty wage which government statistics show to be about $18,660 per year.
While health care costs have been rising at double digits, US income has actually dropped by 9.2% over the last four years according to the Internal Revenue Service numbers. Factor in the questionably low 3.2% inflation, which is twice as high in San Diego and other metropolitan areas, and the standard of living continues to plummet.
With 45 million without health care coverage, 35.9 million living below the poverty line, 11 million of them children, those who espoused Bush’s “divinely-guided” leadership qualities as their main reason for voting for his punitive policies understand less about the reality of today’s world than they do about the compassion they allude to so easily when they cherry pick biblical scripture to disguise their vacant and empty “moral values.”
Posted by Richard on Jan 7, 2005 at 8:32 PM You know I used to be a Democrat, I really did.I believed in a lot of things the dems stood for especially in terms of the empathy they had for the human condition of the less fortunate. But when I see Teddy Kennedy have the sheer testicular audacity to question someone on the use of drowning as torture I begin to bristle. Here this pompous windbag let some poor girl drown to save his worthless drunken ass and political career. He is one of the main reasons that folks find the Democratic party so odious and why they keep spiraling downward in power. It’s the hypocrisy Teddy!!
Posted by redstate on Jan 7, 2005 at 8:54 PM One would have to believe that the “redstate” person who posted the above message is one of the new Republicans. The Old Guard Republican Party followers prided themselves on promoting fiscal responsibility and smaller government. But the new Republican Party is just the opposite, running up record budget deficits and record spending every single year while they expand their bloated federal bureaucracy with pork barrel spending and a $1.35 trillion tax cut giveaway to the wealthiest 1% of the population.
The Old Guard Republican Party was fond of accusing the Democrats of being the War Party. Again, that role has been reversed by the hard line new Republican war hawks who see War Forever as an opportunity to expand the military industrial complex, warned against by Old Guard Republican President Dwight D. Eisenhower.
Now, the new Republican Party under G. W. Bush has committed 150,000 US troops to Iraq after having killed 100,000 innocent Iraqi men, women and children and put over 1,370 US military in body bags with no end for the war in sight.
Old Guard Republicans warned against putting our men and women in uniform “in harm’s way” and expected the president to wage war only when necessary, not when he felt like it as Bush has done. New Republicans clearly love preemptive war, especially those wars waged based upon complete lies and deception and against a broken country that had no significant military. Iraq for twelve years was divided into thirds with the US-British enforced No Fly zone edicts which controlled both the northern and southern parts of that country and twelve years of economic UN- imposed sanctions.
While some, like “redstate,” find little else to reminisce about except Ted Kennedy’s 1969 Chappaquiddick incident, the new Republican Party crooks like Tom DeLay have honed their rhetoric to tar Viet Nam War veterans like John Kerry and Max Cleland as traitors and unpatriotic while adulating George W. Bush for dodging the draft and getting into the Texas Air National Guard where his last year of military service has yet to be accounted for.
The new Republican Party is the Party of Depravity, Corruption, Deceit, Lies and Decadence, all attributes which they sell as “moral values” by cherry picking biblical verses and twisting biblical scripture.
Now we know what being a Republican in name only really means, but it’s not “moral values.”
Posted by Richard on Jan 7, 2005 at 11:40 PM You know, some things are a matter of fact, and some things are a matter of taste.
What is a matter of fact is this:
Same-sex attraction springs from faulty bonding/identification with the same-sex parent in the critical early years of life, and is preventable and treatable.
www.narth.com SECULAR ORGANIZATIONS
www.gaytostraight.org
www.peoplecanchange.com
Posted by Sharon Kass on Jan 8, 2005 at 4:24 AM You know, when it comes to the human psyche there are as many ways to define human nature as there are stars in the universe. Shakespeare said it best in Hamlet,
“There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy.”
For those who live in a narrow, structured and Absolutist world, believing everything is black or white, no shades of gray, right or wrong, they are the poorest.
Posted by Richard on Jan 8, 2005 at 6:11 AM Have to interject here that Hypocrisy has been raised to previously un-imaginable levels by the incompetence that led to 9/11, and the refusal to hold anyone accountable, the lies about WMD, the war profiteering, the torture memos, the actual torture and killing of prisoners, the bombing of civilians, corporate welfare, tax cuts for the wealthy in war time while slashing what’s left of the social safety net, nominating judges even Alberto Gonzales considered poor, and that even the KKK would be embarrased by, basing a campaign on fear, prejudice and bigotry, and making life harder for the working class and poor, while pretending to be some kind of moral upright christian that God wanted in the white house so badly he rigged the vote in Florida (twice) and Ohio. And look at his most vocal supporters! the drug addicted Limbaugh, the phone sexed O’Reilly, the crazed Colter. These people have put Goebbells himself to shame with their constant repetition of the “big lie” du jour.
I haven’t much use for the democrats either, and have written here that it’s past time to abandon that party as it currently exists, complicit in everything the right wing has accomplished in this country, and, like a kidnap victim, seeking to identify ever more closely with it’s captor.
But Pleeeeeze. Teddy was responsible for one tragic needless death. How many thousands are on the heads of the current regime. How many more before we are forced to do the inevitable and withdraw.
Posted by Kenneth D. Brown on Jan 8, 2005 at 8:44 AM Amen to the above post by Kenneth D. Brown. No question about it, Democrats have put up only token opposition and have abandoned the protection of the bedrock principles of freedom, tolerance and justice which the New Republican majority are working furiously to dismantle.
While Bush “moral values” idolaters genuflect before his despotic throne of corruption, Democrats acquiesce and only watch as bystanders while the Bush regime and the new Republican Party majority nullify our US Constitutional civil liberties and individual rights.
A review of Alexander Solzhenitsyn’s novel, The Gulag Archipelago, stated the problem of public apathy and ignorance well:
“No civilized man in the West can afford not to read at least part of this great work on life in the 20th century. It has already achieved, in fact, a certain fame in the free world. But how many can dare to look for long at the stark and bitter reality it describes? The free and easy life of the West is more conducive to sleep than to awareness…until the time comes when we too must face something like Gulag. Solzhenitsyn has told us in advance.”
Posted by Richard on Jan 8, 2005 at 5:34 PM What is a matter of fact is that same sex attraction springs from faulty bonding/identification with the same sex parent in the critical early stages of life in SOME of the cases, NOT ALL!!! To intentionly see only one aspect of an issue,and use that as an excuse for bigotry and to discriminate against another group of people,is dispicable,and shows that the person posting it has no idea what it means to be an American.And what does homosexuality have to do with this article anyway?
Posted by whats the truth? on Jan 11, 2005 at 4:57 AM Redstate,
I do not believe you were ever a democrat. You can’t just turn off empathy for other people and responsibility for yourself and others. That, by the way, is what it is to be a democrat, a liberal, a progressive, a human being. You exhibit none of these traits.
George W. Bush did not win the 2000 election, and the recent 2004 election was won by just three million votes, in a country of over two hundred and fifty million people. That is the lowest amount a second term president has won an election since Woodrow Wilson in 1916. Nothing to sing and dance about I assure you.
As for Sharon Kass and her homosexuality nonsense, if an individual is happy being Gay then no ‘cure’ is needed. There is nothing wrong with homosexuality, it hurts nobody. What hurts people are homophobic individuals like yourself. Most of us imprint hetrosexuality in early childhood, some imprint homosexuality. So what? Get a life.
Posted by Matilda Gatsby on Jan 11, 2005 at 8:55 AM How DARE you sit in judgement of me Matilda- who the hell are you? who died and left you in charge of making such blidly hypocritical judgements? Typical liberal selective “diversity”. I know the republicans suck but boy you liberal idiots take the cake.
Posted by redstate on Jan 11, 2005 at 2:40 PM I think that one of the problems is that quite a few “christian moralists” aren’t christian at all. They use their religion as a protective wall which allows them to be the bigots they are without having to feel remorse for it.
We are taught that hatred is wrong, but if the hatred is couched in religious tones, and being religious is held in high esteem by society at large, then the hatred is acceptable.
it seems to me that “progressive” values are more in step with The Beatitudes than anything the Conservatives come up with. Fear Mongering and spreading hatred probably wasn’t what Jesus had in mind (just a guess on my part :)
i’ve posted it here before but it bears repeating:
“as far as I can see, socialism is Christianity in Practice”
- Tommy Douglas.
Posted by lefty canuck on Jan 11, 2005 at 5:45 PM Richard, you’re cracking me up. Good stuff in the analysis. Also sorry to report that property values up here in Northern California aren’t much better than in San Diego.
Getting back to the values discussion: Thanks for ITT staff for framing the debate exactly as how it needs to be framed. . . Poisoning our kids’ air, crapping in our drinking water [which is literally what the Bush Administration is saying when relaxing EPA standards on industrial poultry farms] and complete fiscal irresponsibility to scratch the surface are all some real moral liabilities.
What the democrats need is a hard-core public relations offensive and ruthless strategy!!! We have the ruthless part down pretty well [usually when tearing each other and our own people to pieces] but there is no PR offensive answer to the Rove juggernaut - only defense to the latest piece of Drudge.
Therefore: Our moral values are where the true strength of our party lies. Let’s see no more of this pandering to some imaginary middle, people who are supposedly too naiive or uninformed to know if George Bush or John Kerry is the person they are supposed to vote for
Clear, lound, unapologetic broadcasting of our values are the order of the day: Strong Children, Healthy Family and a Clean Environment.
I submit this thought: No solid foundation has ever been built by asking random passers-by how THEY would like to see the building to look.
If We Build It, They Will Come.
Posted by Ed Mellon on Jan 11, 2005 at 9:17 PM I want a politician who is gonna keep order and protect the border. I want revoked and denied the notion and practice that business and industry have the same rights as humans. I want pompous self righteous liberals & conservatives put out to pasture and new leaders who will follow the interests of people not money. I want them all to stop messing with the what is left of the natural world. I want no more factory farms ( and fewer factories altogether). I want a new sense of what is moral and it does not neccessarily have to do with sex either! No more GM food and less GM cars. mass decentalization and more localization of everything but national DEFENSE. Not offense.
now for what WE can do. Quoting loosely from that sage of the farmlands Gene Logdson- you might not be able to shut down monsanto or the large factory farm but you can try raising your own food . I think that is the mentality we need now more than ever. Read Wendell Berry, Kirkpatrick Sale, Ed Abbey, Abbbie Hoffman, read something that is gonna somehow piss you off and then try to do something about it. Voting for these Bozos ain’t gonna change diddly-squat- it’s all more of the same .Voting for them just encourages the bastards They all leave us fighting over crumbs from the loaf of bread we already own.
Posted by redstate on Jan 11, 2005 at 10:59 PM oh yeah and by the way i ain’t no friggin republican ( or what passes for democrat ) either.
Posted by redstate on Jan 11, 2005 at 11:00 PM but you are a troll, redstate. a reactionary. and a commenting thug.
lay your poisonous rat bait out for people who really give a damn.
and yes, Matilda dared and so do I. but, despite her eloquence, i won’t be so nice about it.
so screw you.
being liberal and progressive doesn’t mean being a pushover. i’m tired of having “discussions” with people like you. if you came into my house and talked to me like that i kick your ass out on the curb.
so go away.
Posted by whatever on Jan 14, 2005 at 2:28 AM Hey ‘whatever’. Thank you for the compliment. The best way to bitch slap a conservative is with the truth, they hate that. Or you can just swear at them, either way.
Redstate, I’m not sure if you actually know what you want, I’ve heard you say some outrageous things on this site. You are either a complete fool, or you think we are.And that ‘all politicians are bad’ crap is something right wingers have been trying to convince us of for years. There are some good people in politics, and most of them are on the left. I think it is the right wing who have lowered the tone of government over the years (a blow job doesn’t count, imprisoning people without trial does), and they continue to do so.
The conservatives would have us all conclude eventually that any form of goverment is intrinsically bad, so why bother. The fact is that it is in the neo-conservative’s interests to have us all apathetically turn off. With real democracy in tatters they could then get on with the happy job of robbing us all even more effectively than they are currently doing now (pharmaceuticals are just the beginning).
So as ‘whatever’ suggests, go peddle your regurgitated uber nonsense somewhere else, the local gun club for instance.
And if, by the way, you think this is ‘undemocratic’ or ‘hypocritical’ then as soon as you have something to say that genuinely makes sense we will all listen, whether we agree or not. Half baked psuedo political nonsense, however, is painful to listen to and, frankly, an attempt by you to disrupt real discourse. Remember, I have read your responses to many many articles on this site and for your information you are a ‘friggin republican’.
So go and post some entries on a few conservative websites. Oh, I’m sorry, they generally don’t let people respond publically to their internet articles do they. Oh well.
Posted by Matilda Gatsby on Jan 14, 2005 at 10:59 AM No WMD? Sorry!
(Read Joseph Heller’s Catch-22 World War II satire in case you’re wondering where I got this idea. (Over 400,000 US military lost their lives in that war.)DOD Form: DEADGI-1A
Letter of Condolences From the Secretary of Defense
Date: (To be filled in by Dept.of Defense clerk)
Memorandum For: The Bereaved
Subject: Death of Loved One
Text: Dear Mr., Ms., Mrs., Miss (Circle applicable title)
I regret to inform you of the recent death of:
Your Son, Daughter, Husband, Wife, Mother, Father, Sister, Brother, Grandmother, Grandfather (Circle all that apply)
Although there are some who believe that those who have died in Iraq gave their lives needlessly because the War was declared and waged under false information and pretenses, I assure you it had the immeasurable benefit of electing G. W. Bush for four more years in the White House on November 2, 2004.
Of course, now that we acknowledge that the under-manning and under-equipping of our US military was somewhat of an embarrassment, I’m sure you’ll be happy to know that we have made some changes and contracted with Halliburton to assist in adding more armor to the tin can Humvees.
Though the false claim we made as to Iraq’s possession of WMD and the equally false claim that Iraq had direct ties to al Qaeda which upset some people in our country, mainly the unpatriotic and traitorous Democrats and others who also dissented in this war, I’m sure you’ll understand that Nation Building and establishing a puppet government under the guise of Democracy have been our main objectives all along.
Enclosed is a gift certificate for you to purchase one US flag, to be redeemed at any Wal Mart (hecho en China), compliments of the Secretary of Defense, Donald Rumsfeld. Sincerely yours,
Donald Rumsfeld,
Secretary of Defense
Posted by Richard on Jan 15, 2005 at 3:01 AM whatever you are an idiot- I’ll just leave it at that -your own words prove that. Matilda.why don’t you get a life! I’ll just bet you are a registered member of the bitch brigade who see’s sexism ans all that bullshit behind every corner. You are even less than an idiot- a self righteous pompous liberal ass that has nothing better to do than to bitch-bitch-bitch . Oh and whatever good luck kickin my ass you little snot nosed twit. you all are just as judgemental and closed minded and bigoted as a bunch of KKK members except you are even more ignorant -screw you all.
Posted by redstate on Jan 19, 2005 at 12:49 AM Oh redstate,
you just proved whatever and matilda right beyond a shadow of a doubt-you are a friggin republican! (It’s your hatred of liberals and name-calling that gives it away.You done Rush proud with bitch brigade thing too)
I had hope for you there for a minute with the comment about growing one’s own food and the rest(my husband and I do just that so I could relate) but like Matilda, I have read many of your comments and always I’m struck by your hatred-(of so many things)This is truly the flag of conservatives these days, and we liberals are just sick of it. Not wanting to be trashed by you doesn’t mean we’re closed minded or judgemental-it means we don’t want to be trashed by you-period. So I’m with whatever and Matilda-go rant somewhere else.
And as for the issues of moral values as defined by the conservatives- it’s just more slick marketing- FOX on a larger scale-it’s the image that counts with these folks-truth has little to do with it. Bearing that in mind, I think it’s time liberals built strength from within-anything we put out there now will simply be trashed by conservatives in the same way they have done in the last decade-they get the ole saying “why fix it if it ain’t broke”. They’re even gloating about how they took power from us in new books-they claim they used our sence of fairness and inclusion against us and it worked, and they beleive it will keep working.Their version of morals values is easy for many folks- hard working two job americans who know deep down this isn’t the american dream they’re livin’- to get around. It’s simple. And when you’re tired, simple is good.
No, we can talk about what course we travel to “win”, but what we need,really,is to turn the tables on them just like they turned it on us and that will take more than one election cycle and oh yeah, we might want to stop in and ask OZ for a heart and maybe some courage too, so that when it is time, we’ll be solid and not have to pander to republicrats-let them get their own party.
Liberal values have always saved the people in trying times-as long as the bushies brainwash the people into beleiving that they’re alll alright, our words will sound foolish-it’s only when the veil falls from their eyes that we have a chance at really discussing values with the people.
I just hope the planet can hold on that long.
Posted by kaela on Jan 19, 2005 at 6:19 AM ya know I really don’t care for George Bush and the conservatives but they are better than you liberal hypocrites with your “diversity” bullshit.You all march in lockstep to same tired old self righteous, judgemental, and bigoted ideals. You are worse than the damn evangelicals with demands of obedience to your dogma, You make me sick. Anybody that does not agree with you is a republican or a racist or homophobe or GASP a sexist pig! Oh the humanity. You still don’t get that this country views you as the morons . you are and will never ever have a liberal in power at the national level. Hypocrite fools. And I will always be around this site because in some instances on this site there are good folks willing to discuss ideas and not display the liberal bigotry of Matilda and kalea or whatever.
Posted by redstate on Jan 19, 2005 at 12:18 PM redstate, my god I feel sorry for you. This country, and the rest of the world (remember them) views your type as the morons. You’re just projecting your little heart out. And if you don’t know what projection is, go read a basic psychology text book. On the other hand I’ll save you the bother. ‘Projection’ is when you credit others with your own repressed and unacknowledged traits.
By the way, bigotry is another word for prejudice. Well I am not pre-judging anything, I’m judging, period. Get used to it, unless the cold light of reason is too much for you tortured little mind.
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