Like many of his U.S. press colleagues, New York Times foreign policy columnist Thomas L. Friedman has pronounced himself “unreservedly happy” about the Iraqi election of Jan. 30, adding: “You should be, too.” But rather than pointing toward an exit for the United States from Iraq, the election may just be another mirage, hiding the fact that U.S. troops could be… return to article
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Reader Comments (46)Page 1 of 1 pagesIt is my understanding that one of the great tragedies of the Iraq war is that Sunni/Shiite tensions have traditionally NOT been an issue in Iraq. I have come across this information several times, usually with the conclusion that media, with its incessant need for antagonists and protagonists has greatly exaggerated (and possibly exacerbated) this divide. While I greatly enjoy In These Times’ articles, this one seems to be part of the problem rather than the solution.
Posted by Gabe on Feb 14, 2005 at 4:30 PM Who knows where the war will lead? I do agree with the notion that the election protends nothing.
Let’s let the Bushies enjoy their moment, for if it doesn’t work out they will forever be branded as fools thorughout the eternal abyss of history.
Posted by Chris on Feb 14, 2005 at 7:58 PM My current inclination toward this situation is to hope with reservation. I would like to see our troops out of Iraq and on their way. The main thing that scares me is that if Bush gets the feeling that his job in Iraq is done, regardless of cost or consequence he will find another front for his endless warmongering, be it Iran, North Korea, or Syria. In some ways i believe it may be better for him to spend the next four years quagmired in a low intensity civil war, in order that he might be preoccupied from starting disasters of greater magnitude. Of course who knows if that will stop him anyway?
Posted by Hurin on Feb 14, 2005 at 10:05 PM Hurin:
Check the news. President Bonehead and his band of merry neocons are gung-ho to invade both Iran and Syria. They have had a hard-on to kill a lot of Arabs and Persians since the 1979 takeover of the American embassy in Tehran. They will too, if Congress rolls over and plays dead as they have so many times the last five years.
Regardless of what happens in Iraq, good or ill, remember two things:
(1) The U.S. did NOT go into Iraq to spread democracy. That is the 3rd justification that Bushwa has used on the ever-gullible American people, if you have been keeping score. The first was because Saddam had WMDs (wrong), the second was because Saddam was such a brutal dictator and had filled mass graves with innocent victims(yeah, so what about Uzbekistan, Congo and Indonesia?) and,
(2) In a free society, the ends NEVER justify the means.Peace is the only answer.
Stephen Kriz
Posted by Stephen Kriz on Feb 15, 2005 at 9:33 PM As long as we have all these pasifists sitting around watching animated cartoons on TV that only was intended for idiots, nothing is going to be done about stopping this administration from furthering it’s quest to dominate all oil bearing countries. Bush if you remember reading the history on him was never successful in any of his dealings before politica. Why anyone would vote him into office is anybodys guess.
We are in for another rough 4 years, the last 4 were bad enough. How many generations is it going to take to pay off this one war, if he involves us in one or more other wars, this country will go belly up and then what will we do? We owe China and Japan so much money they own us now. This is very scary people.
Posted by Pat Grzybowski on Feb 15, 2005 at 11:48 PM Fact is: if I can’t trust the honesty of elections here in America, how am I suppose to believe that the ones in Iraq are legitimate? Bush was defeated twice and yet here he is still the ‘president of the world’ for that is what the American presidency is (or should I have said ‘dictator of the world?). In the end it does not matter who ‘rules’ Iraq as long as the resources (oil and perhaps a few other things thrown in) and the bases are very much under American military/corporate control. The actors may speak their lines there but they don’t own the stage.
Posted by Roger Lafontaine on Feb 16, 2005 at 1:21 AM Interesting title. Could be referring to the quagmire in Iraq or to the position of US electorate’s head in relation to their anal tract.
Posted by Matt Harris on Feb 16, 2005 at 5:17 AM Problem in America—what is read or seen in News Media is believed.Americas media have an agenda—-protect Israel.Just imagine if China controlled it?—Bet? Bush would have been exposed along time ago as a fraud and a moron.
The media can mould any idiot as being the right guy for the job.my sugestion is—-all jews in government and media—-find them another job!
IsraOil
Posted by george Archers on Feb 17, 2005 at 2:28 AM I don’t believe that the Shia government
will want the U.S. military to serve as
a prop. They have to worry that the U.S.
will eventually choose to topple them through
a coup. Think of what happened in Iran fifty
years ago.I predict the Shia government will do the
sensible thing. Build a massive, poorly
-trained army with covert help from Iran.
I doubt they will wait until the U.S. model
army is properly trained. Again, why would
the Shia government trust a highly trained
professional army?It is difficult to believe much of anything
that the Shia say now, because they haven’t
taken power yet. I think they will sensibly
follow the U.S. imposed interim constitution
until they cannot get their way because they
are blocked by some minority. And then they
will point out that the interim constitution
has no legitimacy.And they will be better off if they have
a massive Shia army and few U.S. troops
about.
Posted by Bill Woolsey on Feb 17, 2005 at 5:35 PM As long as israel is safe, nothing matters. The oil doesn’t belong to the arabs, it belongs to israel. That’s why we’re building a pipeline from mosul to the great port city of haifa. if those crazy sunnis keep blowing up the pipeline, we’ll just ship the oil to israel where we can sell it a profit to the americans.
Posted by Benjamin netanyahu on Feb 17, 2005 at 8:41 PM http://www.sweetliberty.org/issues/israel/calendar.html
Parasites need hosts,they can not live and thrieve on their own.Without USA feeding them Israel thugs- If not USA tax $—their goners!
No one to feed on.
IsraOil
Posted by IsraOil on Feb 17, 2005 at 8:51 PM For the life of me I can’t understand the jubilation. The Iraqi’s who (justifiably) hate our guts and want us gone haven’t changed their minds. The election doesn’t herald a pullout, or a lessening in the massive financial burden the US is saddled with. In fact, the “emergency” contruction of the largest, most expensive and best guarded embassy in the world indicates that the US isn’t only going to be running Iraq, but will be there for all day.
I’m starting to wonder just how ignorant the American people REALLY are.
Posted by IntheUSA on Feb 17, 2005 at 9:55 PM I seriously doubt that any politicaly conscious Iraqi would join forces with the likes of John Nigroponte to support a U.S./Honduran like counterinsurgency against their own people. The more likely scenario is that the Sunni and Shiites will together resist any further entrenchments attempted by the crazies of this administration.
Posted by Earl Sharp on Feb 18, 2005 at 2:41 AM The Jews own 80% of all the media in America So all the news in America will be pro Israel It does not matter what anyone says Whoever owns the media controls the message. If you control the entire spectrum of the mass media newspaper, radio, and TV You can distort and lie 24 hours a day, it does not matter, because your point of view will be the only one that is seen and heard. Freedom of Speech is for FOX news not the citizens of the United States of Israel.
Posted by darryl m on Feb 18, 2005 at 4:27 AM You know a few years ago I was talking to our Priest. He told me the US Government gave Israel the eqivalent of 10,000 bucks a year for every man woman and child in their country. I thought that was a little to generous and so did the Priest. I am suprised that they aren’t helping us out in a big way in this Iraq war.
We are going to pay some disasterous prices and I’m not just talking about money. I just know Bush will have the Arabs do something terrible on our own shores and it won’t be just one in-
stance like the twin towers, but lots of them. This country does not even know how many Arabs reside in our nation. Allot of Arabs came over here to go to school or on some buisness trip and just dissapeared into thin air. This country did not even try to keep tabs on them.
What are we suppose to do about stuff like this, terroists could be living next door to you. This of course is not something that started with the Bush administration, but he has stirred up a hornets nest, and can you blame the Arabs.
It’s not our right to go and try and tell another country how to rule themselves. That’s all show on Bush’s part, he’s only concerned with how much oil he can steal and building arge military bases so he can have a ligitament place to kill people from.
Posted by Pat Grzybowski on Feb 18, 2005 at 4:38 AM Are you freekin kidding me? The last thing we need in Iraq is Israeli releif. Not only would that energize the insurgency, but we would have neighboring countries invading on principal.
Posted by Hurin on Feb 18, 2005 at 8:42 AM Pat-wise-up,the downing of the WTC was not done by Arabs.There is so many Israelis under cover here-that is what should worry you.
http://www.libertyforum.org/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=news_members&Number= =293014609
Let me know if Pearl Harbour interests you?
IsraOil
Posted by IsraOil on Feb 18, 2005 at 12:20 PM You missed my point fellas, I said I didn’t know why Isrial is not in the middle of this, they were certainly gungho to get into it when we had our butts in Iran when Carter was in office. So what if they got in it, how could it be much worse then it already is. The press keeps talking about if they have a civil war going on in Iraq,it’s already going on isn’t it. Once the guy they elected takes power and says all right the rest of the country belongs to those of you of the other two factions, my group are taking the oil reserves. Won’t that be fun with our poor guys stuck over there. I hate to think whats going to happen when Bush reinstates the draft.
Posted by Pat Grzybowski on Feb 19, 2005 at 5:25 AM Pat—USA is a state of Israel.We fought the bad Russians and now they control and use us .We Americans made deals with Russia—$billions from USA,for the release of Russian Jews to immigrate to Israel and America. Now,We sure don’t want the Israelie Russian jews to get hurt in Iraq and find our tax dollars wasted?
Like a husband who kicks the wife everyday in the head and she asks for more—-stupid yes!
USS Liberty’: America’s Most Shameful Secret
by Eric S. MargolisNEW YORK – On the fourth day of the 1967 Arab Israeli War, the intelligence ship ‘USS Liberty’ was steaming slowly in international waters, 14 miles off the Sinai Peninsula. Israeli armored forces were racing deep into Sinai in hot pursuit of the retreating Egyptian army.
‘Liberty,’ a World War II freighter, had been converted into an intelligence vessel by the top-secret US National Security Agency, and packed with the latest signals and electronic interception equipment. The ship bristled with antennas and electronic ‘ears’ including TRSSCOMM, a system that delivered real-time intercepts to Washington by bouncing a stream of microwaves off the moon.
‘Liberty’ had been rushed to Sinai to monitor communications of the belligerents in the Third Arab Israeli War: Israel and her foes, Egypt, Syria, and Jordan.
At 0800 hrs, 8 June, 1967, eight Israeli recon flights flew over ‘Liberty,’ which was flying a large American flag. At 1400 hrs, waves of low-flying Israeli Mystere and Mirage-III fighter-bombers repeatedly attacked the American vessel with rockets, napalm, and cannon. The air attacks lasted 20 minutes, concentrating on the ship’s electronic antennas and dishes. The ‘Liberty’ was left afire, listing sharply. Eight of her crew lay dead, a hundred seriously wounded, including the captain, Commander William McGonagle.
At 1424 hrs, three Israeli torpedo boats attacked, raking the burning ‘Liberty’ with 20mm and 40mm shells. At 1431hrs an Israeli torpedo hit the ‘Liberty’ midship, precisely where the signals intelligence systems were located. Twenty-five more Americans died.
Israeli gunboats circled the wounded ‘Liberty,’ firing at crewmen trying to fight the fires. At 1515, the crew were ordered to abandon ship. The Israeli warships closed and poured machine gun fire into the crowded life rafts, sinking two. As American sailors were being massacred in cold blood, a rescue mission by US Sixth Fleet carrier aircraft was mysteriously aborted on orders from the White House.
An hour after the attack, Israeli warships and planes returned. Commander McGonagle gave the order. ‘prepare to repel borders.’ But the Israelis, probably fearful of intervention by the US Sixth Fleet, departed. ‘Liberty’ was left shattered but still defiant, her flag flying.
The Israeli attacks killed 34 US seamen and wounded 171 out of a crew of 297, the worst loss of American naval personnel from hostile action since World War II.
Less than an hour after the attack, Israel told Washington its forces had committed a ‘tragic error.’ Later, Israel claimed it had mistaken ‘Liberty’ for an ancient Egyptian horse transport. US Secretary of State, Dean Rusk, and Joint Chiefs of Staff head, Admiral Thomas Moorer, insisted the Israeli attack was deliberate and designed to sink ‘Liberty.’ So did three CIA reports; one asserted Israel’s Defense Minister, Gen. Moshe Dayan, had personally ordered the attack.
In contrast to American outrage over North Korea’s assault on the intelligence ship ‘Pueblo,’ Iraq’s mistaken missile strike on the USS ‘Stark,’ last fall’s bombing of the USS ‘Cole’ in Aden, and the recent US-China air incident, the savaging of ‘Liberty’ was quickly hushed up by President Lyndon Johnson and Defense Secretary Robert McNamara.
The White House and Congress immediately accepted Israel’s explanation and let the matter drop. Israel later paid a token reparation of US $6 million. There were reports two Israeli pilots who had refused to attack ‘Liberty’ were jailed for 18 years.
Surviving ‘Liberty’ crew members would not be silenced. They kept demanding an open inquiry and tried to tell their story of deliberate attack to the media. Israel’s government worked behind the scenes to thwart these efforts, going so far as having American pro-Israel groups accuse ‘Liberty’s’ survivors of being ‘anti-Semites’ and ‘Israel-haters.’ Major TV networks cancelled interviews with the crew. A book about the ‘Liberty’ by crewman James Ennes’ was dropped from distribution. The Israel lobby branded him ‘an Arab propagandist.’
The attack on ‘Liberty’ was fading into obscurity until last week, when intelligence expert James Bamford came out with Body of Secrets, his latest book about the National Security Agency. In a stunning revelation, Bamford writes that unknown to Israel, a US Navy EC-121 intelligence aircraft was flying high overhead the ‘Liberty,’ electronically recorded the attack. The US aircraft crew provides evidence that the Israeli pilots knew full well that they were attacking a US Navy ship flying the American flag.
Why did Israel try to sink a naval vessel of its benefactor and ally? Most likely because ‘Liberty’s’ intercepts flatly contradicted Israel’s claim, made at the war’s beginning on 5 June, that Egypt had attacked Israel, and that Israel’s massive air assault on three Arab nations was in retaliation. In fact, Israel began the war by a devastating, Pearl-Harbor style surprise attack that caught the Arabs in bed and destroyed their entire air forces.
Israel was also preparing to attack Syria to seize its strategic Golan Heights. Washington warned Israel not to invade Syria, which had remained inactive while Israel fought Egypt. Bamford says Israel’s offensive against Syria was abruptly postponed when ‘Liberty’ appeared off Sinai, then launched once it was knocked out of action. Israel’s claim that Syria had attacked it could have been disproved by ‘Liberty.’
Most significant, ‘Liberty’s’ intercepts may have shown that Israel seized upon sharply rising Arab-Israeli tensions in May-June 1967 to launch a long-planned war to invade and annex the West Bank, Jerusalem, Golan and Sinai.
Far more shocking was Washington’s response. Writes Bamford: ‘Despite the overwhelming evidence that Israel attacked the ship and killed American servicemen deliberately, the Johnson Administration and Congress covered up the entire incident.’ Why?
Domestic politics. Johnson, a man never noted for high moral values, preferred to cover up the attack rather than anger a key constituency and major financial backer of the Democratic Party. Congress was even less eager to touch this ‘third rail’ issue.
Commander McGonagle was quietly awarded the Medal of Honor for his and his men’s heroism – not in the White House, as is usual, but in an obscure ceremony at the Washington Navy Yard. Crew member’s graves were inscribed, ‘died in the Eastern Mediterranean..’ as if they had be killed by disease, rather than hostile action.
A member of President Johnson’s staff believed there was a more complex reason for the cover-up: Johnson offered Jewish liberals unconditional backing of Israel, and a cover-up of the ‘Liberty’ attack, in exchange for the liberal toning down their strident criticism of his policies in the then raging Vietnam War.
Israel, which claims it fought a war of self defense in 1967 and had no prior territorial ambitions, will be much displeased by Bamford’s revelations. Those who believe Israel illegally occupies the West Bank and Golan will be emboldened.
Much more important, the US government’s long, disgraceful cover-up of the premeditated attack on ‘Liberty’ has now burst into the open and demands full-scale investigation. After 34 years, the voices of ‘Liberty’s’ dead and wounded seamen must finally be heard.
May 2, 2001
Eric S. Margolis 2001
Posted by IsraOil on Feb 19, 2005 at 2:33 PM Ah, the infamous Liberty incident. Just another example of how the fed doesn’t really care about the armed forces (or the truth for that matter) near as much as they say.
Posted by IntheUSA on Feb 19, 2005 at 2:39 PM Thanks IsraOil for the good read about the Liberty, I confess I was not happy to hear about this crap going on even though I know it does.
For such a small damned country to have so much power over a nation of this size is rediculous.
Especially with all the aid we give, which I can’t understand either. Maybe I live under a rock or something huh?
Posted by Pat Grzybowski on Feb 20, 2005 at 12:49 AM America’s relationship with Israel and can be defined by three conditions:
1. Guilt. Even after all this time it’s still a powerful motivator, one that the Israeli’s use at the drop of a hat. Any hat.
2. Sheer power of the Israeli lobby. Couple this with the slimy chickensh1ts who haunt the halls of power in the US and you have a recipe the sort of control Israel has over us.
3. Payment of past debts. This hooks into the guilt trip thing, but it apparently has something to do with things they did for the US during the cold war.
None of these excuses justifies what’s happening though.
Posted by IntheUSA on Feb 20, 2005 at 1:07 AM Why should we have to feel guilty about Iseral? We were not responsible for the holacost (misspelled), what ever did we do to make us feel indebted to them?
Posted by Pat Grzybowski on Feb 20, 2005 at 2:03 AM The US is one of the countries who turned away jewish refugees during the lead-up to the Final Solution. Ultimately, I don’t think this guilt really exists as a tangible. However, the Israeli boosters in our government and their cheerleaders use anti-semitism, real and imagined, past and present, to keep hard debate to a minimun. The way I understand it, Israel was very useful during the coldwar. Again, I don’t see any of this as a justifiable reason to let them punk us.
Posted by IntheUSA on Feb 20, 2005 at 4:11 AM I agree with you intheUSA. I wish we could change this guilt trip DC is on.
Claire I fully agree with you that the counting cannot be done just by precints, but has to be whole counties. When they say Gore just picked areas he would have alot of votes from in Florida was because that’s the only choice he had. They wouldn’t let him ask for vote recounts in the whole state. I don’t know why there wasn’t more of a push from Kerry for recount, especially in Ohio, Colorado, Oregon and Florida. I read alot about the voting being screwed with in those states. There has to be a better way to keep polls and vote counting places on the up and up. There has to be an answer to this problem. I was going to say maybe the states could have state troopers doing the guarding, but here in Mo. we don’t have enough troopers now to be out on the highways because of budget shortages and alot of them quit because of the low pay. I’d trust them before anyone else though I think.
Posted by Pat Grzybowski on Feb 20, 2005 at 8:43 AM Pat and InTheUSA
USA and Canada And Britin and Austrialia,all voted not to accept the Jews wanting to immagrate.Fact—-alll Senators being Jewish voted that no Jews allowed-WHY?—cause they had a plan—all needed to be in Palestine to out number the arabs.
Another forgotten important fact is that Germany hosted hundreds of thousands of fleeing jews from Poland.Germans begged America to take some jews in—-Answer-no—-gun point USA turned back thousands of Jews and then started to cause trouble in Germany.—bombs AWAY!
Read about the Zionist bombing of the King David Hotel( supplied by Uncle Sam) and the killing of the hundreds of Brits—reason -Brits tried to curtail the large influx of European Jews in Palestine.
If these scuums don’t get their way—watch-out America!
Look around you—Bush is planting all Jews in high places—forget Codo-she is a no-body lesbo.
Posted by IsraOil on Feb 20, 2005 at 2:08 PM historyreader,
I don’t like what you say, but I know you are right. We practice what you are preaching about owing as little money as possible. There are unfortunenatly some things you can’t get out of like health and house insurance. and you know the old saying that there’s just two things you must do in life, pay taxes and die. What if the wealthier of us manage to anialate us, what good would the country be to them then? I keep thinking about all the jews who were killed in ww2. What will this country do with all the street people which there is a large number already, especially in the warmer regions of this country. Will they go around with flame throwers burning people and paper shacks up? I keep thinking about some of these Australian movies I’ve watch the last few years that are suppose to be about after world war 3. Is that the way you see this country? I hope it doesn’t take another depression for some change to come about.
Posted by Pat Grzybowski on Feb 20, 2005 at 11:10 PM It doesn’t have to be that way. However, there just isn’t that much time left. The American people are going to have to wake up from their long slumber, soon.
Posted by IntheUSA on Feb 20, 2005 at 11:31 PM Quote “I keep thinking about all the jews who were killed in ww2”
Patrick—forget about the Jews,they are able to take care of themselves.Ever cared for the Palestinians?The numbers of Arabs and countless Europeans and Russians have been killed by crazy fanatic jews.There is many jews that I know and adorn. But there is a element of greed in the ones I read and listen in Israel and washington.Does it bother you that Jews control USA and the USA media(and down Under) and most of the hard core Zionists have dual citizenship???? What is your thoughts on that asssss-hole Murdoc??
Do you agree when Israel hitmen enter a country and kill at will and the host country is shit scared to prosecute them.
Patty Boy—All information leads to the 9/11 downing was done by Jews in high places and in Lebanon’s recent bombing—jews again.Seems it is OK for America and Israel to shoot their months off that Syria did it but not the other way.
What would your thoughts be if 9/11 was found to be orchestrated by Bush and his league of zionist thugs?? Would you still support the poor victum jews????
Palestinians have suffered enough and don’t give that crap that jews have suffered.When and coming soon, the WIII killings will start in America and then the public will wake-up to who was behand it all—-the same fate will come to the jews as in WWII in Europe.Why did the polish and Cecks and Germans hate the Jews so much???-I wish someone can answer this?—and don’t tell me because they were rich and helped the needed!
The Jewish Divide on Israel
by Esther KaplanEMENDATION: In “The Jewish Divide on Israel” [July 12], Esther Kaplan referred to two Hillel program directors who resigned after being reprimanded for their articles supporting Israeli and Palestinian peace activism. In fact, one of the two, Aron Gutman of Ithaca College, was let go because of funding problems. He had, however, been taken to task for his Ithaca Journal article supporting Israeli and Palestinian peace activists and told Kaplan, “My desire to depart related to these issues”—constraints on expressing his views on Israel/Palestine. (7/28/04)
or a glimpse of how Israel plays out in an American election year, recall the day in September when then-Democratic presidential frontrunner Howard Dean told reporters he would like to see the United States take an “even-handed” approach to Israeli-Palestinian negotiations. Thirty-four Congressional Democrats responded by sending Dean a harsh letter questioning whether he shared their “unequivocal support for Israel’s right to exist,” and anonymous e-mails inundated Jewish listservs, accusing him of abandoning Israel. Dean promptly appeared on CNN to defend Israel’s assassinations of Palestinian militants.Or consider the day in February when John Kerry sat down in New York to discuss issues with a group of Jewish leaders hand-selected by the Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations. Hannah Rosenthal, executive director of the Jewish Council for Public Affairs and one of the few liberals invited, said she had her hand in the air, ready to ask questions about civil rights, poverty and the erosion of the church/state divide, but she was avoided by the facilitators, and the meeting shaped up as a single-agenda affair. “The central issue, no matter how they came at it, was, ‘Are you going to be there for Israel in these difficult times?’” Rosenthal recalls. “It was, ‘We’re putting you on notice that this is our number-one concern.’” Kerry took his cue. During the meeting, he backed off from earlier statements that he’d send Jimmy Carter (seen by the right as pro-Palestinian) to the region to jump-start negotiations, and six weeks later, when George W. Bush, in an agreement with Ariel Sharon, accepted Jewish settlements as permanent and renounced Palestinian refugees’ right of return, Kerry immediately endorsed it.
Or consider May 18, when the hawkish American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) held its annual conference in Washington. House majority leader Tom DeLay showed up to speak, along with two assistant secretaries of state, an assistant secretary of defense and the President himself. Bush’s speech was regularly interrupted by cheering and chants of “Four more years!” The meeting of the Jewish community’s most prominent voice on Capitol Hill may as well have been a Republican political rally.These events reveal a stubborn political fact: that AIPAC and the Conference of Presidents, along with their powerful fellow travelers, Christian Zionists, have forged a bipartisan consensus in Washington that Middle East policy must privilege the “special relationship” between the United States and Israel. In practice, this solid consensus means putting Israeli security before peace; supporting even such extreme Israeli measures as the separation wall and assassinations; and delegitimizing the Palestinian leadership. In AIPAC’s view, even Bush’s unambitious Middle East “road map” conceded too much to the Palestinians. Until the late 1980s, when the PLO publicly affirmed Israel’s right to exist, such positions may truly have represented the vast majority of American Jews. But ever since the 1993 Oslo Accord proved that negotiations were possible, surveys have consistently found that 50 to 60 percent of American Jews favor ending the occupation and dismantling settlements in return for peace.
The trouble is, AIPAC and the Conference of Presidents never fully embraced the Oslo thaw, and once peace talks failed in 2000, they snapped back to their hard-line stance. The combination of Palestinian suicide bombings, the election of Sharon, the ultimate hawk, as prime minister and Bush’s with-us-or-against-us “war on terror” allowed the AIPAC consensus to harden throughout the Jewish establishment. After 9/11, United Jewish Communities, the joint Jewish charity, decided to direct funds to Jewish settlers for the first time. And 2002 was a banner year: At a pro-Israel rally in Washington that April, busloads of demonstrators from Jewish social-service agencies and Hillels (the network of Jewish campus organizations) booed Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz for speaking about Palestinian suffering, and the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) and other groups published manuals on how to discredit “anti-Israel propaganda” on campuses. “Arafat had a chance to move toward peace and he rejected it,” says Rabbi Eric Yoffie, the leader of the 1.5 million-strong Reform Jewish movement, and one of mainstream Jewry’s most outspoken voices against settlement expansion. “We rallied to Israel’s side out of the sense that it was the right thing to do, and out of real anger toward the Palestinians.” The joke used to be two rabbis, three congregations; over the past two or three years it’s become 6 million American Jews, one official opinion.
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http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20040712&s=kaplan
Posted by IsraOil on Feb 21, 2005 at 12:03 AM Okay israoil, I read the whole article on Jews. I just used Jews in my two cents worth to wonder if that was what would happen to us Americans by the time the Republican administration were through with us or maybe it doesn’t make any difference who’s in office. There’s not much separating the last platforms except the war and social security. I am not a person who hates any race of people. I grew up in southern californis which is a melting pot of peoples. Some how we all managed to rub along together pretty well. I hope people will be tolerant and stand together when times get bad. I think most of us Americans would fight for our lives and livlihoods. I don’t like supporting the Jews financially, we do not do it for most other countries that alot of immigrants migrated to our country do we? I think really we have to many good old boys running the show in Washington and we need to sweep them out of there. It doesn’t help to elect someone for president if you don’t get rid of the buddy system who are only there for the money and prestige. They could give two hoots in hell about the average citizen who elected them to office. If people would turn them over enough times they would start doing the wishes of the people mnot big business. I have a lot of dyed in the wool republicans in my family and they will not even talk about changing their affliations. My parents were republicans, their parents were republicans and we’re republicans.
I however am an independent.
Posted by Pat Grzybowski on Feb 21, 2005 at 1:16 AM Pat,thank-you for your thoughts.Now that I know your side,it is right you hear me out.
Yes, I was a die hard republican-hated the democrates with a passion,Watched every media on the Clinton bashing—UNTIL
I watched the documentry called—Hidden War of Desert Storm or more appropraite—The Highway of Death—
Over 182,000 Iraq deaths in 2 days by our wonderful airforce.In waiting was 100’s of huge John Deer Power shovels burying the dead.UN give Saddam time to clear Kuiwaite-all Iraq troops, families, businees personnal.Once the highway was full to Bagdad—the US order was given to kill every living thing on the highway.SwoorKoff and the Black Sh!t Pow-Pow Colin ordered it-nice chaps!
Did you know that afterwards the Gulf war, powell suddenly accumulated $28million.Army-pay-Sure!
At the time of the 2003 Iraq invasion,I watched Democracy Now- and only they showed the mentioned documentary.another shocking aspect of American thugs was shown on CBC national on Direcr TV. It showed American GI’s scavenging the burnt out wrecks and stealing- wallets, hand guns from the dead corpses,Several of our boys were loaded down—full bags of hand guns. At least our boys were truthful to the reporter—We’re off to the Kuwaite market to sell.
If only you could see the burnt dead bodies hanging out the windows and our fucked up boys peeling off the rings and necklesses of the corpeses
So Pat-now you know why I hate America and what it stands for.Sure we can talk about-how we all get along-but try to get into the jewish faith—lot of luck—these folks are the most racist bunch on earth—that is if your rich or famous—the Rabbi will welcome you with open arms.
Speaking of Rabbi’s—reminds me of rabies-infectious deadly desease.Washington and the News media really need a clean-out. Thanks Pat—you are a great guy. Hope you convince your Uncle to see the above documentary—America is gone to the rabed dogs!
Posted by IsraOil on Feb 21, 2005 at 4:42 AM Hi IsraOil,
I want to thank you for the info. You know most of us who have no one in the family serving in the military are out of the loop for want of a better expression. It just goes to show how greedy people are. Today if you offer someone something, instead of saying thank you, they say how much do you want for it. I was brought up differently then that and it always shocks me when people do that. I know God is watching us and is very disappointed in his creations.
Posted by Pat Grzybowski on Feb 21, 2005 at 8:08 AM Pat-try reading this—-un-believable what is in store for USA
http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=4231
want a good web site—-news that is a click away- and no strings in posting
http://disc.server.com/Indices/149495.html
Got to run!
Posted by IsraOil on Feb 21, 2005 at 3:05 PM I think it’s important to mention that the Jewish people aren’t the problem in and of themselves. I’m sure that the they’re just as diverse in their beliefs as Americans are. Our collective problem in based on the fools, idiots, sycophants, war-mongers, manipulators, would-be social engineers, statists and sneaks well allow to run our respective countries.
Posted by IntheUSA on Feb 21, 2005 at 3:20 PM IntheUSofA,don’t kid yourself-even the Mafia’s kingpins are Jewish.
Why are you paying good hard earned taxes to be sent into that deep sinkhole Israel.Do you know anything about -who really runs America.why not test your local politician—Question—if a Jew and Gentile applied for a job—-who would they prefer for hire?
Let us go to some area close to home.
In my city,we are very generous with welfare and homeless abound.Fact-a welfare receiptent is not allowed to earn extra cash on the side or is dedictated of the amount earned.But, if your Jewish—-the funds from the local womens jewish league is a bonus. United Appeal-check the donation list over60% goes to Jewish estiblisments—-for god sake—money to teach hebrew!Why should Jews be treated as holy and different? Take the 3 jewish kids after circunzided got Herpes from a Rabbi who did the operation. Hell no-not a peep in the main news media. One kid died and the other 2 are dying .
Ah! that’s nothing to you maybe but the Rabbi had Herpes and he would proform oral sex on the boys penises and suck the blood after each circum.I guess it is alright to go after Catholic priests as homos.
There is so much favioritism to wards the Jews—it is sickening!
Why don’t you try for a job in Washington or Hollywoood or as a news anchor and see even if you get past the doorman. I do have some Stars of david if that may help.
Please read my previous post on the news media and don’t bother you?And do you know how many Jews are in the Senate and congress,to 35 nation wide? Even Hillary says she is part Jew.Is this news to you-Kerry is a closet Jew,his real name is COHEN? If you don’t believe me—let me know-comrad USA.
Posted by IsraOil on Feb 21, 2005 at 5:04 PM Correction the 35 nation was a mistake- OUGHT TO BE-3% of nationS population are jewish,I wonder WHY NO native Indians are allowed?
Posted by IsraOil on Feb 21, 2005 at 5:11 PM IsraOil; You can, of course, think what you want. However, it’s been a while since I’ve been exposed to the sort mind-numbingly ignorant bullSHIT you just expressed for all to see.
As it is, I’m not going to waste my time trying to rebut any of it. And please, no name-calling (comrad USA), okay?
Posted by IntheUSA on Feb 21, 2005 at 6:20 PM Short fuse!-cheer-up
If it is about the rabbi and herpies that got you upset—let me know-I CAN POST IT the auctual report—
Please, DON’T GET NASTY, AND IF YOU ARE COMFORTABLE THAT 3% CONTROLS THE 97% in USA,THEN GOOD LUCK YANKEE DOODLE!—THERE IS A TECHINICAL NAME FOR IT-OLIGARCHIES
“COMRAD” MEANS BUDDY.
SETTLE DOWN-INTHEUSofI (as I in ISRAEL)
Posted by IsraOil on Feb 21, 2005 at 7:11 PM Jewish Rabbi Gives Three Infants “Herpes”
by
Miroslava Flores
La Voz de AztlanLos Angeles, Alta California, February 2, 2005 - (ACN) An incredible, shocking and horrific report is coming out of New York City concerning male baby fellatio, genital mutilation and the infection with “herpes” of three infants by a Jewish Rabbi. City of New York health officials are investigating the death of a baby boy who was one of three infants infected with Herpes Simplex Virus Type 1 that exists predominantly in the mouths of homosexuals. The practice called “metzitzah b’peh” by Jews is routinely practiced on Jewish baby boys and may explain their sexual dysfunctions later in adult life. Many adult male Jews are “mother fixated” and exhibit a preponderance of homosexual and feminine characteristics. They are being “shocked” out of their masculinity as infants by the ancient and bizarre practices of Jewish Rabbis. It is not yet known what percentage of Jewish males go through the horror.
The case was made public after the New York Health Department filed a complaint in the Manhattan Supreme Court against the Rabbi Yitzhok Fischer. The rabbi had performed “metzitzah b’peh” on twin baby boys last October. A few days later one died of herpes and the other tested positive for the virus. The health department later found a third baby with the Herpes Simplex Virus Type 1 that the rabbi had “sucked his penis”.
This incredible but true report is now casting doubts on the “medical” practice of circumcision which is unnecessary, Jewish inspired, and amounts to nothing less than “male genital mutilation.” There are now a vast number of medical studies that prove that males grow up healthier and perform better sexually when their penises are left intact. The “circumcising” of Gentile baby boys is essentially “Judaizing” them for life.
“They may perform on the Sabbath all things that are needful for circumcision: excision, tearing, sucking the penis, and putting thereon a bandage and cumin. If this had not been pounded up on the eve of the Sabbath a man may chew it with his teeth and then apply it.”
Posted by IsraOil on Feb 21, 2005 at 8:02 PM Keep up your screeds IsraOil, you’re scaring away the gullible. You must work for the damn jews.You’re an Effin kike loving dolt.
Posted by rabbi's only work for tips on Feb 21, 2005 at 10:02 PM Hi IsraOil,
Sorry but I didn’t get a chance to get on here on Monday. Got on late last evening. I tried to read alot of both of the links you directed me to. I must say I was shocked to learn the Jews own all the prime-time news and intertainment. Also that they own many magazines. I thought it was bad enough we had Greenspan. duh!!! The other link APFN really has alot of different types of news, so I signed up to receive their newsletters. I know I shall learn alot from it. Thanks for all your help in trying to bring me up to the mark about what is really going on in this hateful world we live in. I’ll keep reading and responding.
Posted by Pat Grzybowski on Feb 22, 2005 at 8:30 AM Did any of you see the phone clip on last nights news of George Bush prefessing to ? can’t remember his name, but he just wrote a book. Anyway geoge told him he did do pot, but he wanted to run for President and how would that look to children. They would say well the President smokes pot so I will to. I am so glad that guy shared that with all of us peons. Add least Clinton had the guts to admit his faults, George doesn’t believe he has any.
Posted by Pat Grzybowski on Feb 22, 2005 at 8:36 AM That all goes to show that wars are not won through newspaper articles, but rather with ideas, soldiers, weapons and munitions. A people wins when it has the prerequisites to victory, when it wants to win and when it must win. All that is true for us. This evening we look back along the path we have followed…”
- Joseph Goebbels, “Our Hitler,” Adolf Hitler’s birthday, 1941
Replace it instead-
Karol Rove,—“Our Shit”,—George W. Bush’s birthday,2005
Posted by IsraOil on Feb 22, 2005 at 12:33 PM Folks, This thread is getting to be like a far right conspiracy thread. I am not a US citizen-I am a citizen of Australia, and I just cannot believe the whacky stuff that is appearing here. Does anybody really think that the US ruling class gives a shit about jews or anybody else for that matter? The support for Israel is not the result of a ‘jewish’ conspiracy, or becasue’jews control the media’ (This is an old right wing favourite that goes back to the bogus Protocols of the Elders of Zion’. The reason that the US ruling class supports Israel to the hilt is because it is a reliable ally, spy and militarily strong dependent slap bang in the middle of the biggest source of cheap power in the world-Its oil stupid! If Israel was in the middle of Australia (which was an actual proposal in the 1920s), the US wouldn’t give a shit about it. Wake up, and stop the anti semitism-it makes me sick-and no, I’m not jewish, but I loath rascism in any form, and this thread is not worthy of a politicaly progressive site. A little more analysis please and a little less crazy right wing conspiracy theories.
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