It’s a strange thing when a letter from the school principal arrives on lime green and aqua stationery. Stranger still when the postmark is Burbank, California, and the return address reads “Imagineer That!” But it was real. The communique trumpeted “Disney Channel is coming to our school to help spark our creativity”—in a pre-packaged 90-minute assembly. “Imagineer That! The Creativity Adventure”… return to article
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Reader Comments (39)Page 1 of 1 pagesExcellent article.Couldn,t have said it better myself.Please keep corporate influence out of our public schools.The kids are there against their will as it is and they should not be treated as pawns in some marketing strategy.
Thank You.
Posted by Paul Leslie on Mar 28, 2005 at 9:12 PM Miss Davis (I can’t imagine anyone wanting to marry anyone as nasty as you),
Do you put out rabbit poison for the Easter Bunny? or maybe load both barrels for Santa? how about a nice cup of hemlock for Valentines Day? It’s people like Susan Davis that make this world a crappy place to live!
PS - You suck as a writer too!
Posted by John Doe on Mar 28, 2005 at 10:37 PM The saddest thing about what’s mentioned in this article is that the word ‘imagineer’ has become something of ridicule.
In my childhood, when the Disney Company was something brilliant, I in fact dreamed of being an imagineer.
Today it’s apparently simple PR and kids dancing like Monkeys.
This is a great article, another sign that Disney is so deep in decline that its attempts to bring imagination down along it are nothing less than DISTURBING.
Lord, I hope the end of Eisner will bring some hope to us.
PS - John Doe, Davis probably leaves candy for the Easter Bunny, but like any normal being also puts out garlic for the hording vampires trying to takeover our souls. It just turns out the Vampire is the Disney Company . . .
Posted by Phoenician on Mar 28, 2005 at 11:30 PM GREAT article. Well composed, to the point, with nary a word wasted. I can assure you that I consider it an insult that Disney would ever utilize the term “Imagineer” for anthing so slummy as cheap P.R. You can bet I’ll be sending the URL to your article far and wide. Thanks!
Posted by Scott Carter on Mar 29, 2005 at 5:18 AM Two words jump out at me from the article: “art” and “imagination”.
If schools really want to foster the imaginative powers of children (which, after 20 years in schooling, I very often doubt), Art Class is the perfect place. And let’s give a boost to Music and Drama Class, while we’re at it. Of course, children have an inherent tendency to use their imaginations, which is the basis of real creativity, so along with all the “academic” subjects we put the kids through, I consider arts-related classes to be virtually essential. It’s not just sad that art, music, drama, and all of the fine and performing arts have become ever more rare in schools, it’s almost an act of aggression against the developing minds of children. I don’t teach these, HS social studies is my gig, and I can tell you that I demand a level of intellectual rigor and evidence of a strong work ethic from my students. But at the same time, it’s perfectly obvious that the places where so many of them flourish isn’t in history or psych class, but in their explorations with artistic media, music, acting, and so forth.
They’ll forget 90% of the history they learned in my class, they’ll never forget portraying Helen Keller or Pippin on stage, they’ll never forget the ovation they got from their instrumental solo, they’ll never forget the admiration of their friends and family in connection with their painting or sculpture.
And for those who don’t think these ought to be emphasized in today’s schools, I say that it damn sure should. Look at the difference between young adults who didn’t get any of these opportunities, compared to those who did while in school. Their intellectual powers and ability to engage in higher-order mental functions of all kinds are, very simply, less well-developed. For some, they’re downright truncated.
And we sure as hell don’t need Mickey or Goofy to tell them how to be creative! They know how already. What we need to do is support their creative efforts, with funding and with good teaching.
Do I wish my own kids could relate in detail the politico-economic effects of the Hawley-Smoot tariff, or am I more glad that they learned how to read music while in school (which is something I cannot do)? It’s not even a question.
Posted by Kuya on Mar 29, 2005 at 7:08 AM “They’ll forget 90% of the history they learned in my class, they’ll never forget portraying Helen Keller or Pippin on stage, they’ll never forget the ovation they got from their instrumental solo, they’ll never forget the admiration of their friends and family in connection with their painting or sculpture” - Kuya
I guess if it’s ovations and admiration that drives highschoolers creativity, they’ll soon forget it too. Certainly, most creative acts aren’t recognized by peers or marketplaces. That’s in history somewhere, perhaps in the forgotten 90%
Posted by larry jones on Mar 29, 2005 at 3:08 PM Hello larry jones,
There’s where the academic rigor and work ethic come in, in addition to their hoped-for experiences of creative exploration and (if they’re so inclined) performance. I wouldn’t say it’s a good idea to drop one in favor of the other (i.e. purely artistic or purely academic schooling), more to say there should be numerous artistic/creative opportunities as well as academic demands placed upon students. I figure if they have opportunities to develop various aspects of their minds, they’ll be better able to find successful paths in the marketplace once they leave their mandated schooling. There’s a lot of cool brain science coming out over the last several years, really interesting to read and potentially influential in improving schooling (hopefully, if it’s given a serious look).
I guess my response above comes from watching school curricula in many localities degrade, in my view, as budgetary shortfalls (and school-related political headbashing) lead to the loss of valuable programs that foster creativity. Very unfortunate, a disservice to kids and society at large, I think. The Disney article got me going on a pet theme of mine. :-)
Posted by Kuya on Mar 30, 2005 at 12:43 AM Academic rigor and work ethic, it is sometimes hard to get people to understand this does apply to creative activities. In spare time I run writing workshops and it’s frustrating see people waiting around for inspiration to strike. I tell them to just work and the inspiration will catch up to you. So many, and not just the young, want the ambience - a louche, bohemian, coffee house style - and not the substance. It’s a pet peeve of mine, or as my styling workshoppers would say: bete noir. Thanks Kuya for your thoughtful and civil post and for putting up with my completely apolitcal response.
Posted by larry jones on Mar 30, 2005 at 1:56 PM I agree with Kuya greatly. As a student, do I remember all the facts of history or science? Heck No! But I do remember (and still hold dear) the pieces I create in Ceramics, the applause I hear when my Choir does an outstanding job.
When it comes to television, Mickey and Goofy do not need to tell us how to be creative, and I agree. But they do need to show us why we shoudl be creative.
When I see a great show, whether it be Gargoyles, Tru Calling, or 24, I desire to write something great as well. When I see great animation, I want to draw as well.
You get my point? Disney must stop being the teacher it will never be and start being the role model it has failed being for several years.
Posted by Phoenician on Mar 30, 2005 at 6:32 PM The best teachers for me were the ones who personalized teaching. For example, my 8th grade history teacher explained how an historical event unfolded by comparing it to a student taking the same action on a fellow classmate. From there, he would explain it in detail, avoid editorializing, and give us hints on how to remember the information for the upcoming tests.
I retained so much from teachers like this, and when I would see them later on, I would thank them for doing such a great job.
My english and art teachers liked to “brainstorm” and come up with ideas on how to solve problems. My 6th grade teacher like to just take everyone outside for a few hours because it was too nice of a day to sit inside.I was lucky, though, for no metal detectors were at the entrances of my school, no teachers or students feared for their lives and you could still get swats from the football coach (because he was so intimidating) if you really screwed up. He had our respect, though, because he forgot about it afterwards and even sat around talking sports or whatever was on our minds afterwards.
Posted by Neil on Mar 31, 2005 at 9:55 PM It had occurred to me recently that it must be one of the major disasters in world history to allow a company such as Disney to dominate and exploit the imagination of children. Pollution all the way…
Posted by michael roloff on Apr 1, 2005 at 10:34 PM “It had occurred to me recently that it must be one of the major disasters in world history to allow a company such as Disney to dominate and exploit the imagination of children. Pollution all the way…”
- Michael RoloffCouldn’t have said it better myself, Michael.
Posted by Phoenician on Apr 2, 2005 at 5:30 AM To me, a childhood without Disney is a deprived childhood, but then, I’m speaking of my own childhood, of the days when Disney was only about Mickey, Donald, Goofy, et al., and not the ubiquitous, pervasive entity it is today.
Posted by Linda A. on Apr 2, 2005 at 3:38 PM Linda, replying to your post just above this one. I myself happened to spend the first 12 years of my life in a european village still rife with the animist fables that the grimm brothers and many others then collected. these seemed to be corroborated by my reading of same in my fathers extensive collection of folk tales and dreams from around the world. these are all manifestations of the human imagination—which includes the dream work on an individiual and then communal basis, and their elaboration in fairy tales that seek to make sense of experience and seem to do so in a very effective way. for example: one of my favorite, if not the favorite quote of all: “a long stretch of time is the dream bird that hatches the egg of experience” - from walter benjamin’s essay on lesskov, the russian writer of fairy tales, gets to the heart of this process in a world that is not continuously disrupted with distractions. the important british analyst w.d.winnicot proposed that these fairy tale creatures functioned as a security blankets that then allowed the imagination to flourish. one major objection i have to nearly everything disney has to do with each of these critters being cutsiefied, and commercialized in that fashion, and i dont think allowing the imagination to flourish except in the sense of it being tied to acquisitiveness, to buying.
Posted by michael roloff on Apr 2, 2005 at 8:01 PM Did the failure of Disneyworld in France have anything to do with the failure of Bush to win support for his genocide in Iraq?
Posted by eric swan on Apr 3, 2005 at 6:36 PM eric, you may be right in your suppositon that that is one reason for the french theme park’s failure. not to gainsay european capacity for trivialization, cutesyness, gross sentimentality, except that, so far, they may have airbus, but not the equivalent dominator of children’s entertainment, but i have to admit i know nothing about childrens t.v. programming there. no doubt cna be ascertained on line. class of course makes a huge difference. children are quite capable of making dolls and the like on their own. how the imagination flourishes determines a great deal for the health and future of any mind and that of the culture.
i would say the success of the u.s. theme parks has in large part to do with the fact that generations of kiddies, meanwhile, have been disneyfied, and so it is not too surprising that visits to the mecca & medinas of that world are considered ultimate consumer pilgrimages. nontheless, isn’t it surprising what with all the barbie dolls being sold how regrettibly few amercan girls then are as shapely as barbie! there is something to be said for the sheer resistance of flesh and bone structure to accomodate to those inculcated ideals.
Posted by michael roloff on Apr 3, 2005 at 9:48 PM Disney sucks the cock. My kids sold my frog to it last year!
Posted by Jim Henson on Apr 5, 2005 at 6:24 AM I really wonder if that’s really you, Jim. What you say sure sounds real!
Posted by Phoenician on Apr 6, 2005 at 1:59 AM What do you do to help out kids in schools nationwide? Have a better idea, or just like to bitch?
Of course Disney brought their Mickey Mouse - he’s their icon. If WB had done it, might have been Bugs Bunny! If Henson did it, it would be Kermit and Ms Piggy. No shit they used Disney products - it’s a free presentation from Disney!
Why don’t you put together a PR package, and all the materials, and then start your own “Imagination” sessions at schools. Then we can write a stupid article about how we can’t believe you use a tried-and-true method!!
Posted by Jay on Apr 6, 2005 at 7:15 PM This might not be so appalling if Congress had let the copyright on Mickey Mouse expire after 75, as it should have a couple years back. But corporatism reigns supreme. Culture, community, society—these things don’t mean anything anymore. Letting Disney into our schools is just another example of how badly things are out of balance.
Posted by Nelson on Apr 6, 2005 at 7:51 PM Let me reply to the several comments that my posting has elicited.
1] first to Jay, the second of the three: if parents had a culture there would be no need for corporations [of whatever kind] to replace them, and in schools of all places; neutral forums for learning; not venues to be propagandized to buy stuff.
2] To Nelson, who is # 3, I say, that I couldn’t agree more.
3]To Jim Henderson & Kids: find a pond & grow your own frogs.
Posted by michael roloff on Apr 6, 2005 at 8:36 PM “To Jim Henderson & Kids: find a pond & grow your own frogs.”
That’s “HENSON.”
Don’t make me sic Animal on you, I…oh yeah, Disney owns him now. Oh, bad.
Posted by Jim Henson on Apr 7, 2005 at 7:16 AM Jay, what next? Product placement in school books?
How about mandatory art and music lessons, instead of treating these subjects like some sort of luxury. How about increased funding for schools payed for by repealing Bush’s tax cuts.
How about substainially lowering the level of child poverty in this country. How about opening more libraries, instead of closing the ones that already exist. How about free health care for all children, as healthy bodies promote healthy minds and imaginations more than Disney ever could. How about breaking up the near monopoly that only six large corporations hold over the media in this country and creating some real diversity on the airwaves.I think these are all, every one of them, better ideas.
Also, despite what Disney may have been in the early days, it now represents conservatism, not imagination. Disney stopped being a creative force around about the time Walt Disney died.
Posted by Matilda Gatsby on Apr 7, 2005 at 7:55 AM I second with what Matilda said. Disney used to be something great, but now . . . now I don’t WANT to know what it is.
Television is a powerful resourse, people . . . but it is NOT the only resourse to teach children to take control of their imagination.
Posted by Phoenician on Apr 7, 2005 at 1:27 PM replies to [1] “henson”, [2] matilda & [3] phoenecian;
1] apologies for that “henderson”, but most american families have pets & the cities, too, are rife with wild life…
2] for what it’s worth: one reason that the German army was so fierce, that even if outnumbered ten to one, it would fight on, was because under Bismarck already the country instituted athletics and health insurance… also: i subscribe to the saying “good roads make for bad people.”
3]television is a very lazy resource, except for breaking news such as 9/11; tsunamis; sports.
Does a weather report really need to be turned into a comedy routine?
But I think we were talking about children’s programming. Perhaps we—the various discussants—ought to decide to critique one or two children’s programs. I hate to have to admit it: but I used to adore the tele-tubbies! perhaps since i was peter pan long into midlife i am reverting to an infantile stage earlier than most, though i must say that no end of friends and acquaintances my age have been dropping dead right left and center in the past few years.
Posted by michael roloff on Apr 7, 2005 at 2:27 PM michael roloff, that’s hilarious. What exactly are you trying to say? “good roads make for bad people”, who made that up?
Are you trying to say that good health coverage makes fascists out of an otherwise docile population? Did I just step through the looking-glass?
The health system in this country is a joke, but we seem to doing a pretty good impersonation of fascists, suppressing mainstream disent at home while killing thousands of people abroad.
This isn’t part of that ‘tough love’ nonsense is it, that people somehow become morally stronger if you kick there legs out from under them, and then refuse to offer them help? There are enough hard knocks and challenges in life without us deliberately providing them for each other.
Kids who are treated with respect, like the young adults they are, and communicated with clearly, grow up to be confident and self disciplined. It’s just a fact. Kids who have been beaten or deprived tend to grow up to be either soullessly obedient to their ‘superiors’, or else violently rebelious. Tough love isn’t love at all but merely a system through which to obtain obedience from the people being ‘loved’. People constantly beaten back by their parents or by harsh economic conditions rarely develop true self discipline, simply because they are so used to receiving so called ‘discipline’ from outside themselves.
No, ‘tough love’ breeds obedience, spiced with occasional rebellion, not self discipline or moral strenght. The good road makes bad people only in wonderland.
Finally, compare our murder rate with that of Britain or Canada (both of which have a national health system free at the point of use) and you’ll see what I mean. If you nurture people, which incidentally is not the same as indulging them, they tend to grow and blossom. If you try in any way you can to kick their legs out from under them in the name of tough love, well, you reap what you sow. America is a testament to that particular experiment, and the results are plain to see. Murder at home, murder abroad, hipocrasy, dishonesty, and an ‘ends justify the means’ philosophy. Anything good that’s been achieved in this country has been despite right wing values, not because of them.
Posted by Matilda Gatsby on Apr 7, 2005 at 7:26 PM Matilda, thanks for biting!
1]Bad roads makes for walking, seeing the country side, thinking while you walk,no need for health clubs…
2] As to the health of the German soldiers as of Bismarck’s wars: well, it’s a way of selling a national health system, wouldn’t it be? There might not be any other to the patriotic fascists who are in charge at present.
And if you are healthy in body you still have a choice to become a conscientious objector… At least it is a point that might get them to be puzzled for a moment….
Posted by michael roloff on Apr 7, 2005 at 7:38 PM michael roloff, a brief response because I am at work now. The right wing will simply never credit the ‘fit soldier’ arguement for universal health care. They are too deeply entrenched in their social darwinism idealology.
Posted by Matilda Gatsby on Apr 7, 2005 at 7:54 PM you may be right matilda, that they won’t bite, but a fisherman/fisherwoman can always dangle the bait!
Posted by michael roloff on Apr 7, 2005 at 8:03 PM To Michael Roloff:
By powerful, I mean influential. Of course its a lazy resource . . . you only need to see a reality show to prove it. But nonetheless, millions of Americans watch television everyday, and for that reason, and that reason alone, is the source of Disney’s manipulations. That’s right people: We let it happen to us!
Posted by Phoenician on Apr 7, 2005 at 11:28 PM Phoenician, i got rid of my t.v. altogether about 4 years ago. it’s an insidious instrument, definitely on the order of a drug: as soon as the mind has spare time for reflection, there it is to divert you from your self; to take you away from reading; and if you have the multiple cable offerings… it is even easy enough to tell yourself that one or the other flicker show is worth while. i rent a tv for hearings, having become an addict to these excoriating american dramas with the army/maccarthy stuff, back in 1953/54 was it? the endless parade of crookedness, shysterism, political venality that calls itself democracy; and that keeps coming a cropper. oh yes, and being a soccer fan from earliest childhood and my playing days, i watch fox soccer at the gym: 45 minutes [plus injury time] without a single ad except those plastered on the stadium surfaces and on the players’ shirts. and watching arsenal play is still better than almost any ballet…
Posted by michael roloff on Apr 8, 2005 at 3:36 PM Michael,
You have truly taken the bravery of getting rid of your television. TV is an influential resource, as influential as drugs are addicting, and I totally agree with you.
Problem is, it could be so much better. The potential television once had is completely shot, and I fear that I may have to pull a ‘roloff’ as well.
But trust me: Your story proves to the masses that TV is NOT a necessity. In fact, it does not suit well as an accessory either!
Its just this demon that we befriend at our houses each and everyday . . .
Posted by Phoenician on Apr 8, 2005 at 7:18 PM The article describes one part of the PR reach. Labor groups in Boston have researched another part—the assembly of Disney toys in Haiti and the Dominincan Republic under sweatshop conditions. Just like cigarettes, consumers should force PR efforts to contain disclosures about ill effects. Prominent among them should be the ownership of a Saudi Prince in Euro-Disney. Thus Disney is business partners with those whose state religion is Wahabi Islamic, which, if you have read reports of the textbooks, preach a virulent form of anti-Semitism, and, by the way, hatred of the West.
A little more Disney Imagineering?
Years ago, I had heard mention of an anti-Disney book from Latin America, I think Argentina, called MAUS. the word for Mouse, that harshly criticized Disney corporate practices more than a decade ago. I have been unable to locate one in print easily, or even in circulating libraries in my area.
Something to think about.
Posted by Joseph F Dunphy MBA MFP on Apr 9, 2005 at 5:01 PM responses:
1] to PHOENICIAN’s of April 8: I am not so sure that TV could be that much better. Some things, such as Seinfeld, are really better than anything you can find on stage. However, the nature of the medium, as a PRIVATE dream box, as compared to a publically shared projection screen like film, or stage production, I think that’s where the problem lies: no effort, turn the thing on, the soaps keep the lonley people at home company. I am at a university, most of the time is spent at a medical research library, at lunch, in the South Campus Center, folks instantly congregate in front of the TV, the kids eyes are glued to the umpteen sets pervading the huge gym and its excecise rooms… the ears are addicted to what is piped in from their I-Pods and CD player…
2]reply to Dunphy’s post of Sat April 9th.
A] I think MAUS used to be published by Pantheon Books in this country, unless I am fantasizing, while it was run by Andre Schiffren, who now runs THE NEW PRESS, a fine outfit indeed. I will check that out and put up another post once I get the info.
B] Look, the only thing these people know is “the bottom line”, the machine is not called “dynamic capitalism” for an untrue reason; it will devour anything, sell anything to anyone… as long as there is a profit, and I believe the minimum allowable profit is something like % 150 for most US corporations… Wahabism, I think, is a fine and useful ethos if you live in the desert… which few if any of the oodles of Saudi princes do, preferring to indulege in oodles of forbidden western temptations; the more powerful the tabboo the stronger….; the “idealists,” then, like ye olde Ossama, are the one’s who heak back to the desert ways…. alas… problems of transition… mismanaged in the case of Saudi Arabia I would say..
Posted by MICHAEL ROLOFF on Apr 9, 2005 at 5:30 PM I have the following near instant response from tom englehardt who runs tom dispatch out of the nation institute
http://www.tomdispatch.com/
“Whoever asked has Art Spiegelman’s MAUS, a comic book about his father’s and mother’s experiences in the Holocaust, mixed up with Ariel Dorfman and [can’t remember first name]Matelart’s (not sure of the spelling of the second name) How to Read Donald Duck, a pamphlet they produced in Chile during the Allende era. Tom
Posted by MICHAEL ROLOFF on Apr 9, 2005 at 5:54 PM http://news.findlaw.com/ap/o/51/04-11-2005/c88400098df50bf3.html
Disney hones Internet strategy with preschool offering
By GARY GENTILE AP Business Writer(AP) - LOS ANGELES-The Walt Disney Co. is expanding its broadband offerings for kids, adding activities for preschoolers and planning a second multiplayer online game aimed at teens.
Disney’s Internet Group will launch a paid preschool broadband service this summer, featuring guided activities and games hosted by
SOMETHING TO DELIGHT ONE AND ALL WHO LOVE DISNEY…the lead character from “Bear in the Big Blue House.”
The service, called “Playhouse Disney Preschool Time Online,” is meant for children ages three to five and their parents. Activities will center on a weekly theme or “episode,” such as “friendship” or “sharing.”The service will include puzzles
Posted by michael roloff on Apr 12, 2005 at 12:59 AM What a nasty article!
I hope children see you and run before you suck the life, breath and color out of them.
I feel bad for your own kids, and their children…I hope one of them can break the cycle and find a tid bit of joy in the world.
Three words for you:
Integritas
Claritas
Consonantia
Study, and honor all aspects of beauty and life.
Namaste
Posted by J. Doe on Apr 12, 2005 at 2:34 PM Joe Doe, whoever you are, the article is by an AP reporter
http://news.findlaw.com/ap/o/51/04-11-2005/c88400098df50b bf3.html
Disney hones Internet strategy with preschool offering
By GARY GENTILE AP Business WriterI was passing it along for informational reasons of the overall discussion. You appear to be someone who decries the towncrier instead of the news he exclaims. Learn to read, Jerk.
Posted by michael roloff on Apr 12, 2005 at 3:26 PM J. Doe
I know you are free to share what you would like to say, but is it really necessary to tell us that you hate this over and over?
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