As Israel prepares to with-draw from the Gaza Strip, the question of what to do with the houses the settlers leave behind is becoming more and more contentious. Some policy makers argue that images of Palestinians dancing on the roofs of the handsome cottages vacated by the Jews would project Israeli weakness and embolden militants in the West Bank to step… return to article
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Reader Comments (32)Page 1 of 1 pages“Some policy makers argue that images of Palestinians dancing on the roofs of the handsome cottages vacated by the Jews would project Israeli weakness and embolden militants in the West Bank to step up their struggle.”
Sounds familiar . . . oh yes, kinda like the way Palestinians in Gaza, West Bank and Patterson, New Jersey were dancing in the streets upon learning of the 9/11/01 attacks on the world trade center. (Now, if they really understood that the attack was on the Bush and Saud families and not America, I would have supported their celebration).
“We really and truly welcome you to live among us in peace and security,” he told a stunned Israeli public. Years of suspicion melted away that night.”
Let’s see, that must have been shortly before Anwar Sadat was assassinated by his own people.
The problem with gestures of good will from the likes of Sadat (assassinated) and King Hussain is that they don’t speak for the Palestinians (nor their terrorist supporters, Iran), they are not supported by their own people or the majority of the Arab world.
THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE AND THEIR LEADERSHIP DON’T WANT PEACE WITH ISRAEL AS THEY HAVE DEMONSTRATED 100’S OF TIMES OVER THE LAST 60 YEARS.
The best solution Israel is to build a Chinese wall between them and the Palestinians and leave them to fend for themselves.
Posted by Lefty on Jun 23, 2005 at 4:40 PM Lefty,
*** (Now, if they really understood that the attack was on the Bush and Saud families and not America, I would have supported their celebration).***
You must be either Howard Dean, bin Landen or Dick Durbin. Better go get in a little extra flag burning while you can.
Posted by U Scare Me on Jun 23, 2005 at 5:05 PM What amazes me is that, on the on hand, conservatives are all either overt or latent racists and bigots who especially despise Jews, and yet, on the other hand, the Neo-Cons in control of this country and who support the christo-fascist Bush’s administration, are all Jews.
What on Earth could be a bigger fool than a conservative republican Jew? To be a fascist in this day is the height of stupidity and greed. To be a Jewish fascist is a crime of stupidity of such monumental proportions that there could be no forgiveness in this life, or the next.
Posted by Lefty on Jun 23, 2005 at 7:03 PM Hand over the keys..what an appropriate headline when you consider the ruling of the Supreme Court today. What has happened today is another mark on this country.
Posted by Robin on Jun 23, 2005 at 7:05 PM I’ve wondered about this too, but your take on this misses an important point. As I understand it, nobody wants to hand over the low density Jewish housing…. perhaps the Israelis don’t like the idea of Arabs living in their houses, but what I’ve read suggests that the Arabs don’t want the housing either…. supposedly because they want to and need to build higher density housing.
Now they may also wish to uproot the symbol reprsented by the settlement architecture… I don’t know. That wouldn’t be surpising.
But the fact is that the settlement architecture doesn’t seem very well suited to the intense population density issues of the Gaza, and it carries some pretty nasty memories for the other side.
I looked for the article I read in Ha’aretz about this and couldn’t find it. There seemed to be agreement on both sides that the settlements would be razed.
Were the Palestinians just going along with that because they have no choice? Could be, but they seem to be going along with it for an articulatable reason: a need for higher density.
Symbolically it means “tearing down” instead of “building on the past”... but the history of settlement is a long and dishonorable one… it was never a path to co-existence. No harm in tearing those settlements down. Those buildings and zones are a poisonous symbol.
Ah, but you say turn poison into peace? Well, who are we to say? I think the intense demand for housing for young families might be a more pressing issue in Gaza than symbolism.
Posted by M. on Jun 23, 2005 at 9:52 PM Robin,
The mark you refer to is the mark of the swastika. The U.S. government has been taken over by corporate fascists and the USSC is no exception. So, now if a rich guy likes your house, he can bribe the local government to condemn it, take it through eminent domain (pay supposed market value for it), and give it to the rich guy so that he can build a more expensive house that will create a larger tax base and sell it to another rich guy to live in it. IS THIS A GREAT COUNTRY OR WHAT!
The 5th Amendment to the Constitution provides, in pertinent part: “nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.” The USSC has traditionally held that there were two requirements for an eminent domain taking: 1) the government had to have a legitimate public purpose, and 2) it had to pay just compensation for the taken property. Apparently, the legitimate public purpose served when a private person arranges to have your house taken by the government so that he can knock it down and build a bigger one is the bigger tax revenue it will produce.
Here are some comments concerning this disgrace:
“The city has carefully formulated an economic development that it believes will provide appreciable benefits to the community, including _ but by no means limited to _ new [construction?] jobs and increased tax revenue.,” _ Justice John Paul Stevens, writing the majority opinion backing New London’s authority to use eminent domain.
“Any property may now be taken for the benefit of another private party, but the fallout from this decision will not be random. The beneficiaries are likely to be those citizens with disproportionate influence and power in the political process, including large corporations and development firms.” _ Justice Sandra Day O’Connor, writing in dissent.
“It’s a little shocking to believe you can lose your home in this country. “I won’t be going anywhere. Not my house. This is definitely not the last word.” _ New London resident Bill Von Winkle, reacting to the Supreme Court decision.
“A narrow majority of the court simply got the law wrong today and our Constitution and country will suffer as a result.” _ Scott Bullock, an attorney for the Institute for Justice which represented families in the Fort Trumbull area of New London, targeted to lose their homes.
“It was the worst decision that I’ve ever had to make in my life, but I am charged with doing what’s best for the 26,000 people that live in New London. That to me was enacting the eminent domain process designed to revitalize a city that’s only six and a half square miles, with no where to go.” _ State Rep. Ernest Hewett, D-New London, former New London mayor and member of the city council who voted in favor of eminent domain. [But getting your palm greased by a rich developer made that bitter pill go down easy, didn’t it, Ernie].
“This case was never about the taking of property from one person and giving it to another. This case was not some type of a land grab. This case was about New London, its six square miles and its economic survival.” _ New London City Attorney Thomas J. Londregan [Can you guess that this guy is a conservative? He might as well be saying that the sky is green and the grass is blue. CONSERVATISM - THE CULTURE OF LIES].
“Their opinion obviously upholds the fact that economic development is considered a public use. I’m glad for the city because now the city can move forward with development. But, I feel very sad for the people whose homes are there and now will sell their properties and move on.” _ State Sen. Andrea Stillman, D-Waterford, whose district includes New London.
“I’m concerned that some cities will treat this as a license to steal and will become even more aggressive in taking private property to give it to a preferred developer.” _ House Minority Leader Robert Ward, R-North Branford. [BINGO!]
Posted by Lefty on Jun 23, 2005 at 10:16 PM Please remember that it was American taxpayer dollars that first built those Israeli villas in the Gaza, that it was American taxpayer dollars that subsidized the Israeli residents of those villas, that it was then American taxpayer dollars that bribed the residents to move out of those villas, and that it will be American taxpayer dollars that will now bulldoze those villas.
We Americans have been played for suckers by the Israelis for decades. We chose to lie on the couch watching reruns while our politicians enacted the US Israeli Entitlement Fund, while the AIPAC enacted the Israeli Campaign Contribution Kickback fund, while the folks on the receiving end of our F-16s and Apaches and Caterpillar tractors in Palestine and the rest of the Islamic world seethed with rage born of despair and impotence.
We Americans reaped no benefit from any of this, unless like the neocons in search of a “catastrophic catalytic event—like a new Pearl Harbor”, you count 9/11 as a benefit because it allows you to crank your deception and larceny to another level altogether and to start stealing American lives as well as treasure.
So now the Israelis convert all of Gaza into one large Concentration Camp, cut up the West Bank into smaller Concentration Camps, and we Americans fight on the Eastern Front of the war to enlarge the Israeli/American Middle Eastern Co-Prosperity Sphere.
Will we dumbly stand by and let them plunge us all into WW III and/or a rerun of the Great Depression? Speak up. No one can hear you!
Posted by John Francis Lee on Jun 24, 2005 at 12:26 AM A few facts about Israel:
Israel is the 100th largest country in the world.
The cell phone was developed by Israelis working in the Israeli branch of Motorola, which has its largest development center in Israel.
Most of the Windows NT and XP operating systems were developed by Microsoft-Israel.
The Pentium MMX Chip technology was designed in Israel at Intel. Both the Pentium-4 microprocessor and the Centurion processor were entirely designed, developed and produced in Israel.
The Pentium microprocessor in your computer was most likely made in Israel.
Voice mail technology was developed in Israel.
Both Microsoft and Cisco built their only R&D facilities outside the US, in Israel.
The technology for the AOL Instant Messenger ICQ was developed in 1996 by four young Israelis.
Israel’s $100 billion economy is larger than all of its immediate neighbors combined.
According to airline industry officials, Israel has industry’s most impenetrable flight security. US officials now look to Israel for advice on how to handle airborne security threats.
Israel produces more scientific papers per capita than any other nation by a large margin - 109 per 10,000 people—as well as one of the highest per capita rates of patents filed.
Israel has the second largest number of startup companies in the world behind the U.S., and the largest number of per capita startup companies in the world.
Israel has the 2nd highest concentration of hi-tech companies in the world behind Silicon Valley in the U.S.
Israel is ranked #2 in the world for venture capital funds behind the U.S.
Israel has the 3rd largest number of NASDAQ listed companies behind U.S. and Canada.
On a per capita basis, Israel has the largest number of biotech startups in the world.
Twenty-four per cent of Israel’s workforce holds university degrees, ranking third in the industrialized world, after the United States and Holland, and 12 per cent hold advanced degrees.
Israel is the only liberal democracy in the Middle East.
When Golda Meir was elected Prime Minister of Israel in 1969, she became the world’s second elected female leader in modern times.
Israel has the third highest rate of entrepreneurship—and the highest rate among women and among people over 55 - in the world.
Relative to its population, Israel is the largest immigrant-absorbing nation on earth.
Israel publishes the world’s second highest per capita of new books.
Israel is the only country in the world that entered the 21st century with a net gain in its number of trees, achieved in an area that is primarily desert.
Israel has more museums per capita than any other country.
Israeli scientists developed the first fully computerized, no-radiation, diagnostic instrumentation for breast cancer.
An Israeli company developed a computerized system for ensuring proper administration of medications, removing human error from medical treatment. (Every year in U. S. hospitals over 100,000 patients die from medical errors).
Israel’s Givun Imaging developed the first ingestible video camera, so small it fits inside a pill. Used to view the small intestine from the inside, cancer and digestive disorders.
Israel leads the world in the number of scientists and technicians in the workforce, with 145 per 10,000, as opposed to 85 in the U. S., over 70 in Japan, and less than 60 in Germany.
An Israeli company was the first to develop and install a large-scale solar-powered and fully functional electricity generating plant, in southern California’s Mojave desert.
ALL THE ABOVE WHILE ENGAGED IN REGULAR WARS WITH AN IMPLACABLE ENEMY THAT SEEKS ITS DESTRUCTION, AND AN ECONOMY CONTINUOUSLY UNDER STRAIN BY
HAVING TO SPEND MORE PER CAPITA ON ITS OWN PROTECTION THAN ANY OTHER COUNTY ON EARTH. THE STATE OF ISRAEL CONTINUES TO EXCEL !AND THE FRENCH AMBASSADOR IN ENGLAND SAYS “ISRAEL IS NOTHING BUT A SHITTY LITTLE COUNTRY.”
Posted by Lefty on Jun 24, 2005 at 2:41 AM Back to the Point at hand - Israel should first put up a Chinese wall, and then hand over the keys. Why not? If they are giving up the land anyway, they loose nothing to give the houses standing on it. The only cymbalism to be served by knocking the houses down is pettiness. If the Arabs don’t like the architecture, they can tear the houses down themselves.
Posted by Lefty on Jun 24, 2005 at 2:07 PM Assuming Lefty’s claims are no exaggeration, they only show the stupidity of anti-semitism (of which Zionism should really be considered one form) by showing the creativity and applied educational abilities of those who much of the world rejected and who were forced to live in a country under permanent war conditions when they could have been profitably absorbed in the Anglo-phone West! The wasteful military aid ONLY benefits the US who makes tons of money on it and sustains jobs-half of all the nearly 4600 F16s ever made have been for export. The Israels don’t benefit merely by risking their lives to defend themselves with US military technology when they could be allowed in elsewhere where they are accepted as contributing citizens and not worry about fighting a constant war! If the US government was so philosemitic as people think it would have allowed all the Jewish Refugees in to the US immediately and unconditionally after WWII (we had the growth rates to absorb at least these 450,000 people). Instead, the US opted for an imperialist partner in crime to dominate the Middle East. From the points issued by Lefty the US got an R&D and investment partner in the bargain. So much the better for the US but millions of Jews still suffer a great opportunity cost by being there instead of here! To the goyim who constantly tout their rageful bitter resentment at the annual $5 billion Israel gets (mostly in tied military aid and credits) I say this. Give up your job and home to the needy, endangered Israeli you’re so fucking resentful of and let him come here while you take his place “living the high-life” standing guard over occupied Palestinians (and US political interests) while getting pelted with rocks and molotov cocktails. That $5 billion is an economical option for US defense spending to secure its strategic interests in the Levant. Not a blank check to a bunch-o-yids to party!
Posted by steve on Jun 26, 2005 at 2:59 PM “From the points issued by Lefty the US got an R&D and investment partner in the bargain. So much the better for the US but millions of Jews still suffer a great opportunity cost by being there instead of here!”
Steve, I don’t think the Jews living in Israel wish they were Americans. I’d be interested to know if more Jews migrate to the US from Israel, or vise versa.
Posted by Lefty on Jun 26, 2005 at 5:06 PM Lefty,
I lived in Israel for over three years 7/92 to 9/95 and I can tell you they all want to come to the US instead of remaining in Israel. Outmigration has been steady since 1967 and turned a net migratory loss for Israel after the 1982 invasion of Lebanon-a move opposed by most Israelis who were in any case decieved by their government about the actual facts of the invasion and its “necessity”. This was doubtless the idea behind promoting the Russian migration in the early 1990s in addition to the labor shortage. Many Jews are ceasing to even identify with Israel which is why the Left should tone down its rhetoric in order to not instigate renewed Zionist ferver in the face of percieved anti-semitism. The Israeli population is at least 25% abroad on a permanent or semi-permanent basis at any one time. They should be considered economic refugees at least. To the extent that they are endangered by constant war they could be real refugees. Close to 1,700 IDF personell now refuse service in the OT as conscientious objectors.
Posted by Steve on Jun 27, 2005 at 1:50 PM Too bad Israel never lived up to its original “promises” (?) to share the land with the Palestineans, instead of slaughtering and subjegating them. Once upon a time they were going to share the same lands. But, like its protector—the USA—Israel turned on the weak. Leave them the houses to do with what they want. Leave them their country and withdraw to the territory assigned to Israel! Shame on Jewish people who try to justify the last 30 - 40- 50 years!
Posted by Silverbird on Jun 29, 2005 at 6:50 PM I have to let you know that I agree with most of your point…however, your statement SHOULD read..shame on people who….rather than singling out Jewish people.
Shame on any people who can not learn to live peacefully, without agression towards neighbors!Or, if you are talking about Israel…although it IS a Jewish state, it is really about the State of Israel..not Jews as whole who put up with this.
Let’s not make enemies of one sort of people!
Posted by Robin on Jun 29, 2005 at 7:20 PM Most Jews support the full withdrawl from the occupied territories in exchange for peace. A Labour Party poll on the eve of the 2003 election that brought Sharon back to power ironically confirmed that about 80% of Israeli Jews support a full withdrawl of the IDF and the illegal settlements from the Occupied Territories (OT) in exchange for peace with the Palestinians! The settlers are barely 10% of the Israeli Jewish population and even some of these are economic settlers who are there because of lavish government subsidies to encourage settlement in the OT! The Sharon Government is sticking to its Gaza disengagement plan in order to concentrate more fully on the colonization of the West Bank. The land around East Jerusalem in towns like Silwan is being rapidly expropriated to expand Jewish Jerusalem and cut off the Arab inhabited parts from Ramallah to the north and Hebron to the south in order to create a discontiguous mass of Arab bantustans that are not viable as anything but dependant labour reserves for either Israel or the foreign investors under contract with the PA and its Free Trade Zone programs already underway for seven years now! The Arab villages around the Jewish settlement bloc of Maale adumim, a settlement of 30,000 which is the anchor of the Jerusalem corridor, are being hemmed in by rules that restrict them from further contiguous land purchase for incorporation so that Maale Adumim can sprawl east toward Jerico cutting the Negev off from the eastern Judean Desert and the points north in Arab Palestine. The Ariel settlement block in the north near Tulkarem and Qualkilya and the Gush emunim Bloc near Hebron function in the same manner by thrusting deep into the heart of Palestinian metropolitan clusters to create discontiguity. All of these settlement blocs are to be closed into the 1967 Green Line with a significant buffer area and Jewish only bypass roads to create the new Greater Israel. The Palestinians will be left with Bantustans controlled by IDF checkpoint to impair freedom of movement. This is what activist Jeff Halper calls a Matrix of Control. This highly brutal unilateral determination of the final status by Israel will not end the violence! Once the two state solution if permanently off the table, the only one left will be a binational, secular, democratic state. Certainly the Jordanian option is out of the question as it would destabilize one of the few pro-Wesstern regimes in the region. The common poverty of the increasing number of Jews and Arabs by globalized investment may just for a domestic coalition in Israel/Palestine to at least consider just such an option
Posted by steve on Jun 29, 2005 at 7:35 PM Steve said:
“Most Jews support the full withdrawl from the occupied territories in exchange for peace.”
That’s B.S. Steve.
Most Jews know that Israel will never have peace with the Palestinians as long as Israel exists. The Palestinians have breached every agreement they’ve ever had with Israel, and do not want peace. Most Jews know this and don’t expect any negotiations to result in peace.
Posted by Lefty on Jun 30, 2005 at 3:10 PM I totally repudiate all of my ignorant,
racist, unfactual and ahistorical arguments
above. I just got my ass totally kicked
over in the prior Negotiations board, it
was awesome the way that all my arguments
were just demolished.
Israel is a swamp of mediocrity and 99%
of the “facts” I posed above came from
a racist psychotic on the Yahoo board
the other day.
Israel stole its nukes from the US
thanks to traitors here.
And, yes, we need to stop coddling
racist Jews and call them for what
they are.
Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea culpa.
Posted by Lefty on Jun 30, 2005 at 7:58 PM Michael Hardesty, aka Martin, Mikey, Peter, Jack Barnes, etc., is a conservative troll who posts under numerous names (including the use of others’ screen names), and has conversations with himself, in order to disrupt liberal dialogue. IGNORE HIM.
Posted by Lefty on Jul 1, 2005 at 7:19 PM who gives a flying fvck if he does ? this whole board is loaded with trolls, probably including you. why don’t you deal with his arguments, you lazy bum ! and who said we only had to dialogue with insufferable liberal bores ? you have repeatedly used this identity tactic as a smokescreen for your own incompetence in basic
argumentation and logic. why not read a real book
and take your sorry hinepos off the web ?
maybe get a job !
now that’s a radical idea !
Posted by doug on Jul 1, 2005 at 7:24 PM “We plan to eliminate the state of Israel and establish a purely Palestinian state. We will make life unbearable for Jews by psychological warfare and population explosion. . . . We Palestinians will take over everything, including all of Jerusalem.” — Yasser Arafat
“Since we cannot defeat Israel in war; we do this in stages. We take any and every territory that we can of Palestine, and establish sovereignty there, and we use it as a springboard to take more. When the time comes, we can get the Arab nations to join us for the final blow against Israel.” — Yasser Arafat
Posted by Lefty on Jul 4, 2005 at 6:07 PM In fact, what many Israeli leaders have sought to do in the post-Oslo environment is to test the PA by provocation-a poinless shooting at a checkpoint, a targeted assassination, land expropriation, bulldozing a neighborhood,etc., to see if the PA leadership will rise to the occasion and defend Israeli security against the Palestinian backlash. If they do suppress the uprising or response to Israeli violence, they are deemed worthy and supported. If not, their “intransegence” is made out show how Israel has no partners in the “peace process”. They game just goes on like this until a willing quisling is found for the US/Israeli axis. Abbas seems to be satisfactory at the moment. The real fear is Bourgouthi and his Palestinian Initiative movement which eschews both traditional bourgeous Arab nationalism and clientelism and demands a peaceful, independant, democratic, secular Israel/Palestine shorn of both Zionism and Arab Nationalism which is both democratic and socialist.
Posted by steve on Jul 5, 2005 at 12:38 PM Steve, we totally disagree on socialist
anything and you need to read George Reisman’s
massive 1,000 page work titled “Capitalism.”
It’s huge, Atlas sized, 8 by 14.
That said, don’t waste your time with this
piece of Likudnik garbage. He’s a virulent
racist in addition to being unable to compose
a coherent argument in ANY area, the Mideast
being particularly egregrious in terms of more
than his usual appalling ignorance.
AIPAC, ADL, et al, should be forced to register
as agents of the Israeli State.
Just ordered Joshua Frank’s Left Out, which shows
how liberal dummies like “lefty” reelected Bush.
Counterpunch bashes the libs, Demo Party hacks
like loudmouth Dean and the soft left phonies
every day.
Enjoy !
Posted by Martin on Jul 5, 2005 at 2:40 PM A small but substantial percentage of any population anywhere on Earth will just use any excuse they can to act like assholes. Israelis slaughter Palestinians because of past mistreatment of the Jewish people, Palestinians blow up Jews because they were kicked out of where they lived a few decades ago by Zionists. Americans feel they have the right to do whatever they want because they helped beat the Nazis decades ago. There is no political solution to this. The only way for things to get better is for the larger percentage of the world that goes along with the assholes complacently or passively objects to realize that they need to stop being sheep and turn off their damn TVs. When the majority looks at what’s going on and realizes there is no excuse for murdering people under the guise of patriotism, only then can things get better.
Posted by NYC Insurgent on Jul 5, 2005 at 4:55 PM “We plan to eliminate the state of Israel and establish a purely Palestinian state. We will make life unbearable for Jews by psychological warfare and population explosion. . . . We Palestinians will take over everything, including all of Jerusalem.” — Yasser Arafat
“Since we cannot defeat Israel in war; we do this in stages. We take any and every territory that we can of Palestine, and establish sovereignty there, and we use it as a springboard to take more. When the time comes, we can get the Arab nations to join us for the final blow against Israel.” — Yasser Arafat
When the Palestinian position is that Israel does not have a right to exist, you’re right there can be no political solution.
The military solution is to build a physical barrier between Israel and their enemy, and enforce it with deadly force. Let the Palestinians look to their Arab and Persian supporters for help.
Posted by Lefty on Jul 5, 2005 at 5:01 PM Because of course, building walls guarded by soldiers is what enlightened people do to solve their problems. Nobody ever looks back on that kind of thing and realizes that it was wrong.
A military solution is just a particularly barbaric political solution. No matter what Yasser Arafat might have said on the behalf of the Palestinian people, you cannot generalize the way an entire race feels. The majority of Israelis and the majority of Palestinians will gladly get along if their leaders stop inciting racism, fear, and hate for their own selfish motives.
Posted by NYC Insurgent on Jul 5, 2005 at 5:57 PM NYC Insuregent, lefty probably works for
Israeli disinformation because no single
human being could lie as much as he does.
His 60s quotations are either entirely bogus
or taken out of context.
He reads like he has had no new thoughts on
the subject since he read an Israeli disinformation flyer in 1968.
Bottom line is that the Israelis are the
OCCUPIERS and the Palestinians the OCCUPIED.
There is no moral equivalency between them
and the Paklestinians do not have to be “incited”
by their leaders, Israel does that job quite
well, thank you.
Posted by Martin on Jul 5, 2005 at 6:08 PM Michael Hardesty, aka Martin, Mikey, Peter, Jack Barnes, etc., etc., is a conservative troll who posts under numerous names (including the use of others’ screen names), and has conversations with himself, in order to disrupt liberal discourse. IGNORE HIM.
NYC, like the typical conservative that you are, you are unable to make an argument without the aid of false premises. Yasser Arafat was the elected representative of, whose views were beloved by, a majority of the Palestinian people. Further, he backed his murderous words up with the deads of the terrorist that he was. He, with the financial aid of Iran, starting with the hostage taking at the 1972 Olympics in München, has purposely set out to murder innocent Israeli civilians and continued to do so until his, fortunate, death.
Building a physical barrier between its citizens and the Palestinian terrorists IS the way enlightened, humane, civilized society, trying to protect its citizens from Palestinian terrorist murderers, defends itself. The alternative would be an all out war - which I believe would be less enlightened and less humane - something the war criminal Bush would do.
Posted by Lefty on Jul 6, 2005 at 4:47 PM There is nothing humane about building
a Berlin Wall through another peoples’
property that also involves stealing their
lands and truncating their state to make it impossible to exist.
The Berlin Wall is war.
Arafat was never elected until 2000 so
1966 quotes don’t cut it. And the quotes
mean nothing because at that time the Arab
citizens of Israel were treated like third
class citizens. And the Israeli Occupation
of the West Bank, Gaza, East Jerusalem,
and the Syrian Golan Heights was not to begin
for another year. The Palestinians certainly
had every valid reason to hate the Israelis
and after 1967 that only intensified with the
Israeli efforts to further expel them from
their own land. Israel was created by force
and fraud, it is an outlaw state and the trouble
with the Palestinians is that they have been
entirely too easygoing in relation to the Nazi
type of AshkeNAZI criminals who run Israel.
Now “lefty” when you make a blanket accusation
that someone uses false premises, you are required
to give specifics, WHICH YOU NEVER DO.
All you do is pout like a little boy and cry
out “you are a typical conservative” as if the
repetition of that hoary cliche is supposed
to substitute for a real argument.
Iran never aided the PLO, under the Shah in 1972
or afterwards under the Ayatollahs.
This is the Bush-Neocon-Demo Party line to get
us into Iran.
The settlers ARE ARMED, VICIOUS,RACIST AND IT
IS PERFECTLY LEGAL UNDER INTERNATIONAL LAW TO
KILL THEM AND I HOPE ALL OF THEM ARE KILLED.
IT’S LIKE KILLING NAZIS IN OCCUPIED EUROPE.
HOORAY ! HOORAY ! HOORAY !
Posted by Martin on Jul 6, 2005 at 5:46 PM thanks, martin, for rebutting that lunatic lefty and his trashy racist crap. if that ahole is an
example of “liberal discourse” then adolf hitler was a liberal. there’s no racist like a liberal racist and you notice that the war criminal bush is totally surrounded by jewish neocon israel first types and is the most fanatically pro-israel prez ever. and of course sharon is as much of a war criminal as bush and we taxpayers here in the usa subsidize all of israel’s fascist and imperialistic policies. it was the israelis who were the biggest pushers to get us into war against their enemy, iraq, and they are starting the same bullcrap with iran, notice how lefty is
promoting this line in his demented postings.
he has previously posted here as wwoods, gordon,liz, margaret, proud vet and other aliases.
he’s no lib but a nazi of the lowest type that you
wipe off your shoe sole.
Posted by linda on Jul 6, 2005 at 5:55 PM Thanks, Linda ! He is a truly pathetic
little man in all senses of the word.
Every time he tangles with someone on
the site here, he gets his butt whipped
in public and lefty’s bare butt is not
a pleasant sight !
I’m going to continue to be on him like
a fly on shit.
Posted by Martin on Jul 6, 2005 at 5:58 PM To all libertarians,
I have always thought that libertarians really hated Jewish people despite the fact that many of their key theoreticians are Jewish such as Murry Rothbard, Milton Friedman, George Reisman, and many others. The pro-Israel stance of the US Government has little if anything to do with the Jews in the US or in general! Current US policy towards Israel was made in the 1950s back when organized Jewish groups had little if any political power and the Jewish community in America was still quite poor to middle class. The real reason for US support for Israel is that Israel is seen as a strategic asset. At the height of the cold war in 1958-a year after sputnik-the US Government published NSDD 5801 which, coming on the heels of the Nasserite incorporation of Syria into the UAR, the Iraqi Coup in 1958 and subsequent withdrawl from CENTO, the election of the Nasserist Nabulsi as Prime Minister of Jordan in 1956, and, of course, the outbreak of a civil war in Lebanon in which thousands of US marines were landed in Beirut, saw Israel as a counter-wieght to “Soviet influence” and Arab nationalism in the Middle East! This position has been maintained since that time. AIPAC is now pushing on an open door! The policy of the US is to support the State of Israel out of geo-strategic motivation! Currently, it is a counter-wieght to Islamic Fundamentalism and Palestinian nationalism. Israel also is a pro-western instrument for globalizing the entire gammut of ME economies through trade and TNC investment in high value added industries like footwear, textiles, finished garments, processed food, beverages, light consumer electronics, and other things. The Israeli military is also a good customer!
Posted by steve on Jul 6, 2005 at 10:18 PM Steve, what you think has very little
relation to reality.
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