Radioactive Wounds of War

Don’t ya just hate it Pale Rabbit when someone, in an apparent attempt to distract or diffuse,  accuses you of being something or someone you aren’t?  Especially when they have no credible proof thereof and their logic for arriving at such accusations is well…..kooky?

Yeah, I hate it when that happens.

How about you, KVK?  Do YOU believe a missile hit the pentagon instead of a planeload of people?  Do you share this belief with the person cited as an authority in Lindorf’s article, and with another woman “scientist” at the top of the anti-DU speakers list?

Posted by Natalie on Sep 27, 2005 at 10:16 AM

Yes,I do believe a missle hit the pentagon.
A plane would of made a much larger entry hole and the soft nose of a huge jet wouldn’t of penetrated so deeply,the way it(what ever it was)did.it was flown as described by air traffic controllers as the way military planes fly.The person who supposedly flew it,couldn’t fly worth a damn ,according to his flying teacher in Florida.to name just a few points.but this is the wrong thread to discuss 9/11 I think. but for a few more points,check out this film http://www.pentagonstrike.co.uk/pentagon.htm

Posted by Kaw Valley Kid on Sep 27, 2005 at 12:06 PM

Natalie, you are on the how seat you lowly lier.

All the proof of your lies and deciet is right here in the thread.

Anybody in doubt that you and Roger are directly related, despite your lying claims otherwise, has only to read this thread.

You have been caught in every shilling trick, not once but repeatedly.

Every body who doubt Natalie and Roger are Pentagon Shills can read the thread and see for themselves.

What would Natalie laike them to do?

Just take her word and Roger’s that there is nothing to see here folks, just a crazy Rabbit.

No No don’t read the thread, Natalie and Roger are so trustworthy, just take their word and don’t check. It is of course the Rabbit, who has so many false faces that he can post twenty four hous a day and even simultaneously.

RABBIT SAYS READ THE THREAD. Then come and give these dirty pigs their medicine.

Kaw Valley Kid, Rabbit suspects a smaller jet, probably military and remote, preceded by a missile, like with the WTC’s.

That however Nat the Rat is only an opinion, and we have said as much, does this somehow prove we are crazy?

No bitch it does not. It merely proves we are not going to take anything at face value, when it does not fit. The official story of 911 is a collapsing deck of cards as we speak Nat.

Furthermore there are indeed credible and growing reports that BARBAR OLSEN has indeed been located and arrested. The news is not yet confirmed but is getting stronger.

Do you realise what this would mean for the BIG LIE? Deny it all you wish, you slimy toad, the internet does not exist just in you imagination.

Just as it allowed Rabbit to identify you in about five minutes it will allow anybody to look into this story.

Does Natalie think Rabbit is KVK too?
\.
How is that Paranoia going sow?

KVK has noticed your famous diversionary tactics instantly, smart Kid reckons Rabbit.

He sounds like he has gotten a taste for your ass too so he may indeed be back to kick it some more. Stick around Nat, and give the Colonel a kick in his puny nuts for Rabbit.

Posted by GhostRabbit on Sep 27, 2005 at 6:21 PM

Hee Hee,Yes they are a slimey lot,Rabbit,and I know it if frustrating work outing these obvious Shills,but the name calling will only reduce your crediblity.Let them be undone by thier own stupidity,as they or him,have already done.It is our job to point this out to the good people who believe what the corperate owned <everything> feed them.Don’t lower yourself to the level of this scum.Silly Rabbit,Tricks are for Kids!and the shills of the Corperate America.(sorry,I couldn’t resist!) Hee Hee

Posted by Kaw Valley Kid on Sep 27, 2005 at 8:22 PM

Rabbit has been remarkably pleasant to these trolls KVK, a reading of the thread will show some very sweet people have met them and become savagely abusive before long. The only way these people have been able to cope probably was to move away for a bit and count ten, as the pattern of postings will show.

It has been a struggle and Rabbit has certainly taken abuse to the edge of acceptable on any public forum. It has been done after examing the whole site with a view to not stepping over the boundaries.

Rabbit would never have been banned if these trolls had not worked together to lie, but as you.ve seen the lie backfired and Rabbit is exonerated.

Rabbit has freely admitted that some has been borderline, but sailing so close to the edge has not been an accident, Rabbit has indulged his anger and that of others to a point. It can itself serve as some satisfaction to the many fine and decent people who have been and seen and who still seek out this thread for a glimpse of their Tax dollars in motion. Pentagon style.

They are the most loathesome of trolls.

Rabbit is not one to drop the ball for the sake of the man. In this case the Trolls are actually spokesmen for the Murdering faction of the Pentagon, this is as good as proven above.

This makes for an interesting reversal of the usual rules of forum debate. The posters Natalie and Roger and any more of ‘Their’ aliases or buddies, have exhausted every bit of science and pseudo science in a patently failed effort to paint DEPLETED URANIUM, sexy.
They have used masses of band width to repeat proven lies and to use incredinle tactics of dissemination and smoke and mirrors style propaganda. They have nothing new to add, as you can see they will happily begin any and all discussions away from the central topic if it avoids the hard stuff they have never even acknowledged ahs been put to them.

Of more direct relevance at this point is them, they are the only fly in the ointment of truth. Let us examine the Flies says Rabbit.

Posted by GhostRabbit on Sep 27, 2005 at 8:56 PM

What are you NOT Natalie?
...
Are you not Natalie Helbig now?
........
Are you not a Depleted Uranium Shill?
...........
Are you not here with an agenda?, after a month of “no progress” ?
..............
Are you not a bloodthirsty Vampire ?
...................
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>NATALIE<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
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What are you not?
...
............................^^........................

Posted by GhostRabbit on Sep 27, 2005 at 9:46 PM

So much anger, so little science.  So much written with so few facts.

In the aftermath of the use of ammunition containing Depleted Uranium (DU) during the Gulf War in 1991 and in the Balkans in the nineties, a controversy emerged in the public opinion on the alleged effects of DU on man’s health and on the environment.  Official reports, mainly of military origin, are strongly questioned in the public opinion, being often interpreted as a justification or part of a cover-up.  This controversy reached its peak towards the end of the year 2000, when DU was held responsible for the incidence of leukemia in soldiers of the Italian peace-keeping force.  Having in mind how difficult it is to get scientific facts across to the general public and how strong a distrust there is against official statements, particularly when radioactivity is involved, this report summarizes the present state of knowledge about the effects of DU on man and environment. It bases on a comprehensive re-examination and critical review of the scientific literature, in particular the medical literature and reflects the authors’ collective experience and expertise….......

- Epidemiological studies on persons exposed to DU in Iraq and the Balkans:

Verifiable epidemiological studies on groups of persons potentially exposed to DU exist up to now only for groups of US and GB soldiers from the Gulf War as well as for groups of SFOR- and KFOR-troops and members of civilian humanitarian organisations from the Balkans.  Among a relatively small group of soldiers who evidently had been exposed to DU during the Gulf War, no health problems attributable to DU could be found. Among the British Gulf War veterans, neither the overall death rate nor the occurrence of specific causes of death, such as cancer, are significantly different from those of a reference population. No association between the health problems of many Gulf War veterans (Gulf War Syndrom) and a suspected DU exposition could be found.  In the case of German KFOR soldiers in Kosovo potentially exposed to DU, it could be demonstrated that no significant intake had occurred.  Preliminary results of a medical expertise show that the incidence of leukemia among the Italian KFOR troops is not significantly higher than the incidence in a reference population.  Thus it can be concluded that up to now there is no scientific evidence for health damages among army personal or the civilian population as a consequence of the use of DU-ammunition in the Gulf War and the war in the Balkans.  Controversial Information and reports about dramatic health effects of DU among soldiers of the Iraqi and Yugoslavian army as well as among the civilian population in the areas concerned do not withstand a peer-review.  Therefore they were not considered any further.   

http://www.europarl.eu.int/stoa/publi/pdf/stoa100_en.pdf

P.S.  What’s the latest word on Barbara Olson?  I bet there’s a book deal there somewhere.  What a story she’ll have to tell.  Whatta you wanna bet Foxnews has exclusive interview rights?

http://www.piratenews.org/

Posted by Natalie on Sep 28, 2005 at 9:21 AM

You incur the anger of all decent people Nat have you not noticed it.
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IF and it is still IF Barbara Olsen is still alive, you don’t think there might be a wee problem coming up for all the BUllshit?
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What about the Janitor and 27 witnesses to Previous Bombs in WTC on the 911?  Not more problems there Nat?
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Does the fact that 7 at least of the list of 911 Hijackers were never in the USA at the time and are alive and well, make any ripples even in your stagnant pool of a mind Nat? or have you not been prgrammed with these “FACTS”
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You are the issue here Nat and all details about DU are behind us on this thread, you can play dress-ups and pretenders all you wish, you are adding nothing new, just repeating stuff you long since lost. You so pathetic.

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Don’t kid yourself that Rabbit is especially worked up about you, it is enjoyable watching you sqirm and this thread is becoming an awesome tool for getting the issue of Depleted Uranium into the public arena.
....Your presence is so valuable to the case at this point that Rabbit has formally requested some time ago, that no matter what yours and Roger’s postings be left intact.
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Even if you were to try and get banned, by using the obscenities which you are mouthing silently, it won’t work if Rabbit can do anything about it.  So keep on lying from the depths of your humiliation and exposure.

There was a couple of questions and they are very relevant Nat, what is the problem you have when answering simple questions?
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Do you not realise that everyone can see you ignoring very simple straightforward questions?.Not answering them makes you look even more suspicious if that were possible.
...............
What are you NOT Natalie?
...
Are you not Natalie Helbig now?
........
Are you not a Depleted Uranium Shill?
...........
Are you not here with an agenda?, after a month of

Posted by GhostRabbit on Sep 28, 2005 at 6:22 PM

By the way, seriously.
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You once said that you liked Bunnies Natalie.
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Speaking as a friend and ally of all life and as a Rabbit especially, I must tell you that the thought of a sweet Bunny in your arms is a most terrible one and something that does not give Rabbit any peace of mind…..........
...........................Nothing else you have said has been true so far so it is a fair bet any denials of this will not convince anyone either. You could not hold any gentle, helpless life in your arms without breaking it’s neck or biting off it’s head to suck the blood….................>>>>>>>>>>>>.<<<<<<<<<<

Posted by GhostRabbit on Sep 28, 2005 at 6:29 PM

A small point about your quite poorly supported claims, about soldiers of Gulf War not showing signs of DU poisoning.

Excuse Rabbit for pointing out that about 250,000 US service personnel are fully disabled with symptoms which would be said to be DU poisoning if it were not for the desperate attempts by your employers to pretend it isn’t.

Now the Oz government is still not officially admitting OUR disabled vets with “GULF WAR SYNDROME” have DU poisoning, they did immediately stop using DU the moment the reports started coming out saying it is.
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This thread began with an article showing someone who has DU poisoning and showing Birth defects, kind of makes your squarking about “theories” a bit irrellevant.
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Do you have an alternative to explain the DU poisoning like symptoms of many veterans?
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Perhaps you would like to claim those veterans are lying or slacking? If so Natalie remember your Name is on record and those vets are alot closer to you than Rabbit. If Rabbit is hereby risking the lives of US servicemen, at least they have to swim over and get Rabbit.
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More likely you will ignore a hard one like usual and resort to Waffle or you may just say you have no idea what it is but it could not possibly be DU poisoning…..
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Is this what you would like to say Nasty Nat?
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Then maybe you might like to tell us why those soldiers should not be properly tested as is by the way now being legislated for in several states.
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Come Nat, screw all the theories let us look at real life…..

>..But first try those simple questions, lets see how you go with the easy stuff, Name Rank and serial number in essence.
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Do I need Pale Rider to dig up all three for me, Rabbit thinks he has the resources.

Posted by GhostRabbit on Sep 28, 2005 at 6:47 PM

Or of course pass the baton to Rambo, so he can ignore the Hard one on your behalf.

.......
Been there done that…....................^^....................

Posted by GhostRabbit on Sep 28, 2005 at 8:34 PM

If we have reached one of those impasses again, where truth has become an obstacle too wide, then they will keep quietly in the darkness, waiting to pounce on anyone who drops by the thread and like any SANE and RATIONAL being says Depleted Uranium is an inhuman and immoral way to wage war..
..
...They will be back, just not to Rabbit before enough distance has come between their last massacre and the new stage they percieve for their combined Shilling Act.
................................................................................ERK!

Posted by GhostRabbit on Sep 29, 2005 at 11:01 PM

You know, Rabbit, I was thinking about asking you about that issue of the WTC being brought down by explosives.  Thanks for taking the initiative and offering up your thoughts on your own.  Very, very instructive and illuminating.

I believe I’ve addressed most of your questions multiple times.  In response to your self-created fantasy about me being a Helbig, I’ve repeatedly tried, seriously and humorously, to get you to stop making a fool of yourself by pursuing it.  Actually, I’m quite flattered that you would entertain the possibility that the gal from CTG is moi; she seems to be quite accomplished.  Even graduated from college and stuff.  All that guilt about not finishing, and I can fool people this easily.  I’m energized now.  Of course you’re observant enough to know that this particular Helbig (of which there are ~26,000 in the U.S.) is a New York kind of gal and Roger seems to be a California kind of guy.  After gazing upon her somewhat attractive image and observing her impressive resume, does common sense or even a little bird tell you the two would live that far apart?

Am I a DU shill?  Are you a anti-DU shill?  Your answer is the same as mine.  Even if I was, why should that affect YOUR ability to defend your position?  Why do you waste so much time wondering who someone is instead of simply providing solid proof that DU is so harmful.  Where are all the peer-reviewed studies that say so?  James Salsman says we should trust studies from Iraqi scientists under the control of Saddam Hussein.  Do you concur? 

Do I have an agenda?  Yes.  Because Linforff, Rokke, you and others have necessitated it.  My recently acquired “agenda” is simply to defend the good name of the U.S. and the U.S. military against phony charges by leftist pseudo-scientists with a warped view of American motivations.

Did I falsely portray myself as being open-minded on the subject when I actually wasn’t?  Perhaps.  Perhaps I used that as a tool to encourage others to have an open mind.  Guilty as charged.  However, that doesn’t change the fact that I had scarcely heard of DU before reading the article by LIndorff, did my own independent research and politely posted my opinion about the matter.  More research combined with observing the emotion-based arguments (except Salsman) on the other side reinforced my initial conclusions.  When I noticed that several of the links posted by the anti-DU people (yourself included) actually contained powerful evidence contrary to the poster’s stated beliefs, I was alerted to the sloppiness and unreliability of such people.

When I discovered that apparently (and if somehow they have been misquoted I apologize and take it all back) Doug Rokke and Lauren Moret believe in kooky conspiracy theories, assertions that these two commonly quoted “authorities”  have misrepresented or exaggerated their qualifications for judging the degree of danger posed by DU rang even truer.

I believe I have made a good deal of progress.  Your inability to respond rationally without resorting to inventing inane conspiracy theories about other people’s identities and motivations is one good indication.  Roger and I have provided links to dozens of peer-reviewed studies by numerous organizations that all contradict the wild claims of the article.  (You, Salsman and KVK provided some as well….thanks!)  Rokke’s and Moret’s credibility has been properly challenged,  by presenting evidence of disingenuousness regarding their qualifications and the accuracy of their claims (30 of Rokke’s team did NOT die as he once claimed) and by exposing the fact that they (and you and KVK and I wonder how many others) are apparently conspiracy kooks to boot.

You did correctly identify me as a Vampire, however.  I, along with the laws of physics, have drained you and the article of credibility.

More later…....

Posted by Natalie on Sep 30, 2005 at 9:14 AM

Natalie you have not really adressed the direct questions, the thread is the proof why do you lie so?

Why would you live anywhere near Roger?
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Natalie, you have been assumed to be a daughter and Rabbit does not actually think Natalie Helbig seems very accomplished the qualifications are just window dressing and the stuff she writes is worthless filler, no more.  Natalie who has no credibility, once pretended to know nothing of DU and yet has never stopped Shilling for this FALSE cause from the start. You are a LIER pure and simple.
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If there was no more to this you would have revelled in pointing it out earlier, no go and the thread is the record. You have posted enough for your modus operandi to be known.

It has already been made clear that the theories about 911 are many and the only thing thjat is known for sure is that almost nothing in the official theory is true. Actual evidence has seen to that.

Leuren and Moret can believe what they like about such unrelated matters but if you thinkl the Missile theory about the pentagon is more kooky than the official lie, then once again you lose credibility, not others.

If all is well why so much energy is being expended to withold the evidence which would prove what happened? LIES is why.

Your tag team effort with Roger are classic and are we forgetting a little sopmething about combined complaints using false accusations?  We are forgetting little things like that Natalie are we not?
Thye US does not have a good name and you and people like you are the reason so your crocodile tears are wasted.

We are not anti-DU people you stupid twat, we are just people. You are the one siupporting an untenable position.

Why do you not support the proper testing of veterans? Because the lies would be exposed.

Why can you not answer the comparison with the fear of a single terrorsit Dirty BOMB? Because your lies would be left naked.

You never had an open mind and at last you admit it.  You fail to realise that as far as Nuclear waste as a weapon of Warfare goes there are no open minds, only the world which knows the truth and that is not under question. The other is part of the Military Industrial complex, who you are shilling for. You have had no buyers in this whole thread, noticed that have we? Everybody of any substance has destroyed everything you have tried to spin, not once but many trimes.

You have never had anybody but your own partner in Crime to agree with anything you have said and he has even less credibility. If you have looked up LTC Roger Helbig, and really did not know him you would have had to pull your head in alone due to the complete lack of credibility Helbig owns. Do you not realise he is the best known Depleted Uranium Shill on the Block and a horrible , rude and abusive man to boot. You are crap just for associating with such vermin.

All your links have been examined and found wanting as it happens so don’t claim anything you have not earned. You have not touched the article, you have not dented the DU issue. It is still evil, banned and insane.

Since you are not Natalie Helbig you won’t mind someone checking up with the returned vets to make sure, they would like to know who is working so hard against their interests, so I hope you are telling the truth Natalie.

You are reminded again you have still not managed anything but proove that someone is desperate to keep the lid on the DU issue.

Anybody who doubts that Natalie is a LIER and a SHILL is invited to read this thread, it is long and she hopes you won’t, go ahead and read the truth here if you doubt. Natalie is counting that you won’t.

Posted by GhostRabbit on Sep 30, 2005 at 11:18 AM

Repeats of questions, you lied as expected on the last lot, but the proof is all here.

Try and slime your way through these now.

A small point about your quite poorly supported claims, about soldiers of Gulf War not showing signs of DU poisoning.

Excuse Rabbit for pointing out that about 250,000 US service personnel are fully disabled with symptoms which would be said to be DU poisoning if it were not for the desperate attempts by your employers to pretend it isn

Posted by GhostRabbit on Sep 30, 2005 at 11:33 AM

I love how the shills and media label anyone with an opinion,other than “the official version” of events, conspiracy kooks! It is well known throughout both our countrys history and history in general,that there have been and are many, many true conspiracys.I think the kooks are either the ones that think they can get away with something,or those who try to COVER IT UP. The word conspiracy,has been turned into a dirty word,by those who hold the power behind the media,to more easily defend their undefendable positions,much the way the word libral has been villafide.No more bait please,I’m full.

Posted by Kaw Valley Kid on Oct 1, 2005 at 7:17 AM

I agree, KVK, that realities are often different from how they appear in our window to the world…the media.  Skepticism is healthy and the fruits of thinking outside the box are often abundant.

One “reality”, which was recently presented to us by the media, was quite distorted, turns out.  It makes sense however why the media would choose to distort it, and there is pictorial evidence that proves the obviously willful distortion. 

http://tinyurl.com/djxh5

When CBS presented documents purporting to show that George W. Bush shirked his responsibilities in the TANG, the vast majority of viewers accepted them as genuine.  But a closer look at the documents, combined with the knowledge of CBS’s ideological leanings (Rather in particular) led to the realization that the docs were fakes.  Upon reading the investigative report of the incident, it was clear that CBS was duped, but almost willingly.  People within their own employ doubted the documents’ authenticity and warned them not to use them.

However, the difference between believing the CBS documents were fakes, and believing that a missile hit the Pentagon and the WTC was brought down by explosives, is vast.  It makes perfect sense that someone would try to pass off phony documents to help defeat GWB.  And it makes perfect sense that Dan Rather, who has done a poor job through the years of hiding his disdain for Republicans and the Bushes in particular, would buy into it.  There’s plenty of solid evidence to back up the assertion that the documents are fakes.  There’s hours and hours of footage demonstrating Rather’s bitter partisanship.

But it makes no sense on any level that this or any administration would participate in such a nefarious scheme to purposefully destroy lives and financial and military assets.  One would have to imagine the meeting where it was suggested:

“Here’s what we’ll do.  To gain sympathy in the world and get a free pass to imperialize whomever we want,  we’ll team up with some middle eastern guys and they’ll provide us cover while we actually bring down the WTC with explosives.  We all know the planes alone couldn’t do that.  And then, instead of actually crashing a plane into the Pentagon, as per my earlier plan, I think we should go with a DU tipped missile.  I like the accuracy and the penetration factor.  I doubt anyone in the Pentagon would recognize missile parts when they saw them.  If they do, we’ll just have em killed.  The CIA has just completed a secret runway in Brazil where we can land the other plane, or maybe we should just crash it into the sea”.

“Sounds good, Rummy, let’s go with that”.  I’ve been itchin’ to do some imperilizin ever since I stole the presidency.”

“Yes, Mr. ‘President’, I know ya have”.  (raucous laughter about the whole room)

Skepticism is good.  But several questions need to be asked:  Do I believe it’s this way mainly because I WANT it to be this way?  Do I have CREDIBLE evidence to back up my suspicions?  Does it make any sense what-so-ever?

These same questions should be applied to the issue of depleted uranium.

Posted by Natalie on Oct 1, 2005 at 11:19 AM

I have a question :

I have read (maybe even in this thread) several news articles, after a recent plane crash in Ontario, Canada,  which mention that depleted uranium is used as ballast(?) in the wings of some aircraft. Does the type of plane that (alledgedly) crashed into the Pentagon have depleted uranium on board? I could run a search on it but want to see if anyone else knows and/or has considered the possible implications.

I don’t know what happened at the Pentagon on 9/11. Sometimes I wonder if the missile theory isn’t dis/misinormation, created to poison the well, that will be debunked by the eventual release of more footage that will clearly show a plane crashing into the building. Then everyone can rest assured that they were being told the truth all along and sleep well at night that (all) the whacky conspiracy theories are delusional rantings.

Am I crazy? To ask questions like this? Or is it healthy skepticism?

Posted by David in Canada on Oct 1, 2005 at 2:44 PM

David, Rabbit agrees that the missile, especially the missile on it’s own theory is dis-info. The story traces back to that Viall gentleman Rabbit once mentioned, which makes it suspect. Incidentally that is also Rabbit’s main sticking point with the abiotic origins of OIL theory. And a few others, which I would otherwise consider more probable on theory alone.

Healthy Sceptisism David, the kind Natalie mistakenly claims. One is right to be sceptical of anything unless it is either very believable or backed by enough evidence to make it so.  This is why Rabbit does not believe the airliner which is alleged to have hit the Pentagon, did. But there is some evidence for there having been a smaller plane, and this is of several different types from pictorial, of wreckage and damage, as well as anecdotal from several sources and conclusions which have logically been inferred from circumstantial evidence.

Enough for Rabbit to go with a smaller plane, probably specially fitted, and possibly with missile or explosives, the damage was not caused by a lump of Aluminum plane which is so weak a battering ram by the governments own attempts to explain the small entry hole, that it crumpled like a leaf, as would be expected when hitting such an immensely strong and newly re-inforced section of what is not just your average summer house construction.

..............

Natalie you dirty little lying SHILL. Take your sleazy ass over to another trhead, where all your recent lies on behalf af Bush and Co are being dealt with in better context. You have just raised some very un-related matters which can easily be turned against you, they are of no consequence to the 911 questions which are after all the most important to the whole case. Just how evil and depraved are your masters.

It seems completely obvious that you are merely trying to lose the DU issue in the new debate, but if you have any interest in 911 as an issue the thread is now in full swing on the God Squad and it is looking set to outrun this thread. You even have new friend there, but he needs help with coming up with sources all he has is a faith based argument. You two sould get alomg fine.

As for 911, Rabbit will happily Fry your ass on that one. We all will. It will be too easy.

Stop shilling for the DU on this thread, by taliking about 911 now. The Rabbit will otherwise begin to discuss with others the possibility of “adjusting” this thread for readability, if you think this to be a hollow threat, you do not begin to concieve of how poorly you stand, in credibility, respect or position.

Are you just a LIER for DEPLETED URANIUM WEAPONS? or do you actually have any other opinions?

If you do then stop lurking here amongst the Radioactive Wounds OF WAR, and comeout into the light a little. Get out of your NUCLEAR cave, if you don’t want to be seen as a NUCLEAR BITCH….and nothing else.

Posted by GhostRabbit on Oct 1, 2005 at 9:52 PM

Another thing Nat. You have at the least managed to prove that someone might be able to cobble together a defence of DU use to people who don’t read the whole thread and don’t bother to check all sources when a valis challenge is presented.

Frankly that is the best you could ever have hoped for. Come on, your last post showed to Rabbit that you had finally read the whole thread., It was patently obvious you had never done so before that. Now honestly at what stage do you really think you were in front on the issue?  Keep it to yourself, we know the answer as well as we know the answer you must give. Why bother? 

Now Rabbit knows that tactical thinking is not a strong point, either for you or your masters, assuming such do actually exist.

Therefore Rabbit is pointing out something that should have occurred to you long ago, you can only go down from here.
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Now the trick of leading the thread off topic at this point, will serve a number of ends, none of them good from your point of view.
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First you will be doing exactly what a Shill would be expected to do, and EVERYONE knows this. Thus your belated attempts to try and keep your SHILL status secret, will also continue to take a hammering, and Nat they are already flat.

Second you are begginning to attract a crowd, and on a site which is itself seeing an upswing of interest and which already boasts a very intelligent and well informed core group of posters, this is not likely to be good for you. You will at least have to call for re-inforcements. Costly and frankly sending good people in after bad or at least compromised, American as it is, is unwarranted where no lives are yet in danger. Best to cut your losses. If your masters exist and are military men, you are probably just the tip of the iceberg into which your government is about to run the Ship of state. The effects of being caught between things with such massive momentum are predictable. You are stuck in this foxhole until relieved or dead. Rabbit will be in the grave digging Party if this is the case, that is a promise.

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Rabbit as a teller only of the truth, with no agenda and honest Rabbit, fears no defeat from you. So don’t start more Natty the Ratty or Rude RAmjettery. You are not more than a fly on Bunnies nose. He is watching you and treating you frankly with about the same mix of indifference and interest, as a small black Rabbit I know would do to such a fly. Two of them at once might get knocked to the floor, but just as content to watch their silliness and not get too worked up about it on the whole.
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Posted by GhostRabbit on Oct 1, 2005 at 10:40 PM

The Third problem you will have from now on, is that since you have introduced a Substantial New topic 911 into the equation you have made an enormous blunder. Probably you assumed that by taking what you must percieve to be some crazy conspiracy line and introducing it to bring discredit on others. Not a wise assumption. For a start people round here know what a theory is and they know what conspiracy means. We only use the two together to mock people like you, we are all capable of discerning that neither word on its own or in combination is anything but a neutral noun verb combination. By that Rabbit means it neither strengthens nor debunks anything on its own.  We are open minded, well informed and trust me guys Rabbit knows we are going to pin you, and slice you into mince meat on the 911 if it is your intention to defend anything even remotely like the official story.
..
If you doubt this you are in for one hell of a rude awakening. Are you unable to browse freely on your comptuer Natalie? Rabbit has wondered before if maybe you were somehow restricted to what you can view. Rabbit knows of several cases of people he knows whose web provider does not allow them to access many sites, which are otherwise very popular and very reliable sites with many. Restriction of information seems the only way Shills could actually function and sound so convinced, it would also explain what is obvious to those of us who can see whatever we want, Shills hardly ever read and trace sources. Usually just replying with standard lines which always alerts others who do check the sources. It is by the way one of the many indicaters which tells observant people much about others, via no more than words. What you most wish and don’t we all, is that your words said all you want to say. The problem is after a bit those words begin to tell their own story, much of it is between the lines so to speak, much of it is style and format, some is observation and deduction but it all springs from your words and after a while it becomes easir and easir to hear the truth we are seeking from your words, not the things you are seeking to establish from your words. You have long since crosseed the point where any words of yours could further the DU cause, or any cause on this thread.
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The result of drawing the two issues together is the most serious mistake you will make. Rabbit is cool with it, if you wish to abandon all tactical reason and now take onboard your leaking cause, an even faster shinking ship, who is Rabbit to deny you the opportunity.  The result will be that two issues which have not been connected before will now bring many people from both areas of interest to the same table.  Now the problem for you is this. Most of those who will challenge 911 alternative theories and some who are doing so right now will without any doubt be confronted with Depleted Uranium as an issue. Rabbit can assure you that most of these people know next to nothing about the fact of DU and that it is being used as it is.  Rabbit is willing to bet a whole bushell of Carrots that most if not all of those folks are going to have a tough time accepting DU the way you would like them to. Therein lies your worst nightmare. Indeed Rabbit is posting this last one in a bid to lay the groundstone for this wonderful thing.
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Posted by GhostRabbit on Oct 1, 2005 at 11:10 PM

We have some compelling stuff to come, and if it is to be dealt with on this thread simultaneously as with THE GOD SQUAD, then what could be better.  For the most part Rabbit does not go too deeply into DU on other threads, just enough to test the waters, Rabbit is a cautious creature, fools rush in and all.  The damage that will be done to the 911 official story is already predictable, we shall be taking a few new things on board all of us and Rabbit has at least one new thing to add, maybe. But we should know by now that Dittoheads, Trolls and Shills, and Morons, will be leaving no wiser, there is little chance for those who are merely misinformed, like WTH. We will gain from the exchange and that will be that.
..
BUT
.
What if we have such a Lovely pasture as this “Radioactive Waste Dump” to graze on while we deal with the issues?
How comfortable will the government supporters be seeing not only the lies about DU being spread but they will have to receoncile that with the Government would never do such evil, which is of course their final and irrevocable argument..

..
All those who read this thread and have come this far, who still doubt your government could do such evil as allow or even orchestrate 911, how do you feel about that leap of faith now that you see what they are doing with “Nuclear Waste”? See how they even put a huge and ongoing effort into lying about “DEPLETED URANIUM WEAPONS” and trying to make them seem sexy. See how they do this and ask yourselves what would 3000 lives mean to them, just because they were mostly Americans? They made sure the buildings were insured in a most propitious manner for the Lessee and for the owners.
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. “search engines Nat”
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In the interests of you mostly therefore Rabbit offers the following truce.
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STOP NOW, Drop it, and join the other thread, if you wish. There Rabbit will treat you as not much different to any other, no Shill word will be used at you, unless you re-earn the title, independantly. Rabbit will not refer to this thread even, if you don’t, that is fair, it is conditional but it is a truce which serves your interests as indicated, so that you may know, Rabbit desires it simply because he has other things to take care of and am sick of going round the mulberry bush on this one.
..
You stop now, Rabbit will not post on this thread agin unless you or Ramjet start up again. Rabbit feels some responsibility over you, since you are his SHILLS, and you have never lost your bite, despite massive beatings with the stick. For this Rabbit commends you.

...

the Choice is yours Natalie, and Dodgy Rodgy, begone, and Rabbit will do likewise. KVK and DAVID and WHIT and others will welcome a better battle than poor old “OPINIONS’R'US”. better known as Jay. You might be a worthy opponent there, at least you are not afraid of Rabbit, Jay is rather scared of Rabbit and it is a bit sad, Rabbit has to rely on others to re-ask Jay things for he ignores Rabbit, in his Terror.

Posted by GhostRabbit on Oct 1, 2005 at 11:13 PM

Here is a fact to chew on :

Iraq, Afghanistan, the Balkans, have all become, to a greater or lesser degree, very large, toxic nuclear waste dumps through the actions of certain countries that have decided to use toxic nuclear waste for bullets and bombs.

Opinion to chew on :

Nukes, dirty bombs, depleted uranium, toxic nuclear waste, call it what you will, in the end, it is, or should be, hopefully, one day, a war crime.

Posted by David in Canada on Oct 2, 2005 at 9:21 PM

David of Canada .. you have a poor grasp of facts .. your rhetoric is strong, but you are clearly fact challenged .. what is your relation to rabbit dung?

You initially posed a good question.  DU has been used for counterweights on aircraft for a number of years .. it is extremely dense, more dense than lead and a DU counterweight thus can be much smaller than one made out of any other material.  DU has also been considered to make small fork lift vehicles since the counterweights can be be substantially reduced in size.  This enables much closer aisle spacing in warehouses.

None of the locations that you cited are in any way considered to be radiological materials waste dumps.

Posted by Ramjet on Oct 2, 2005 at 10:28 PM

Thanks for your kind offer, Rabbit, but I think I’ll reserve the option to post more here in the future as it relates to DU, or other issues that might serve to inform about the motivations, qualifications and judgment of those who might disagree with me about   the degree of danger posed by the use of DU in proportion to the benefits thereof.

I take issue with your characterization of me and others that advocate for the use of DU as people who somehow don’t care about the health and lives of our soldiers, or civilians close to a battle situation.  My opinion, based on evaluating the amount and quality of information put forth by all parties, is that DU is minimally dangerous, is nothing close to being properly described as “nuclear waste”, and is certainly an integral part of our ability to win battles quickly with MANY less casualties on BOTH sides, as well as contributing to an overall deterrent effect.

Saddam Hussein tried mightily to deprive us of our ability to use depleted uranium weapons.  Based on the type of medical research he carried out on who he once considered to be HIS people, I somehow don’t think their health was his primary motivation.

Posted by Natalie on Oct 2, 2005 at 11:39 PM

Rabbit hoped you would be so stupid and indeed expected it. Like I said I’ll be in your burial party SHILLS.
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Frankly Natalie I don’t care what you take issue with. You are advocating a war crime. You are advocating the use of something which has for sixty years been known to be dangerous, it forms the bane of the Nuclear Industry, how to dispose of the waste. You are so foul you would try and twist the truth, god knows how because you are not succeeding, just so that people can be killed more efficiently.
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You have the temerity to “Take Isuue” with being called “people who somehow don

Posted by GhostRabbit on Oct 3, 2005 at 2:25 AM

You are a SHILL, long since proven so your evaluation of facts is a foregone conclusion. If your opinion was worth shit, you would never have tried to pass yourself off as an open minded party, seeking clarificataion of an issue, which you did.
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Go back to page one and read the first post of this VERY STUPID SHILL people.
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Saddam Hussein, who Rabbit didn’t even know had his people checked, has nothing to do with anything, dumb shill. The tests which you are resisting being carried out will be everything. The tests are being carried out as we speak in Australia, in the USA and in Britain. It is only a matter of time before the piper will be coming to call, so shill on.
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Your whole set of lies relies on there never being any testing done.  HA HA HA HA HA….........
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..
...
You still have not ever faced any of the actual simple questions put to you any of which would be your undoing, and that is why of course.
...
..
.The slow suffering and disabling of so many soldiers after the fact is a small price to pay for doing as much damage to the enemy for the longets amount of time. That is what you are saying you GROSS TOAD. 250,000 disabled veterans with a mystery disease from the GULF WAR. “GULF WAR SYNDROME” shows the symptoms of DU poisoning. Testing of the disabled for DU poisoning, has shown positive, in cases privately funded. The remaining 250,000 are waiting to be diagnosed, the testing will do it. Forget the radiation you Stupid Shilling Sheila, this was never the main issue, it is just the one you are instructed to stick to. The Uranyls are the main problem as has been pointed out on this thread and proven.

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It is NUCLEAR WASTE NATALIE. It is the same stuff my government is trying to figure out how to deal with because our nuclear export potential may require us to take back the Depleted Uranium Waste. Something nobody wants.
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Funny that Natalie, it would after all be in lead and concrete lined drums and buried. It’s not like it would vapourised all over the country, after all. Maybe you think it’s safer to vapourise it Natalie?  Funny girl.
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If the disabled from the GULF WAR who appear to be suffering some “MYSTERY DISEASE” with DU poisoning like symptoms, sounds bad at 250,000, think about this.
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Only a few hundred tons of the stuff was splattered around then, we’re up around 3500 tons in Iraq so far in two years.
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By the way Natalie and Roger the Goose, you might as well stop talking about DU shortening the WAR ir saving US lives. If you think Iraq is going well, well what can Rabbit say.
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If you think Civilian casualties of upwards of 150,000 so far and the US losses which even without the many thousands of mercenaries is way over 2000, is an improvement then the question is begging, what would you have considered bad?
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“Private Contractors”....., mercenaries sell their gun, what do “Private Contractors” do which is different?
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It’s been said before Nat and Rog you are long since dead and stinking.

Posted by GhostRabbit on Oct 3, 2005 at 2:42 AM

DAVID is obviously another one of Rabbit’s huge army of Anti DU-Shills, of course Roger.
Actually he like everyone else on the thread just knows you are full of crap, and a SHILL.
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He like others is just pointing to some of the things which they know or how they feel about those things. David’s point is relevant and is made so by the entirety of this thread. Roger still hasn’t figured out that all the previous pages on the thread are still accessed by people, and can be read, just because he assumes that everything posted somehow replaces the previous postings.
>
Rabbit has said before these shills may be on computers with controls which keep them inside certain strict information zones. It would explain a lot actually.

Posted by GhostRabbit on Oct 3, 2005 at 2:52 AM

“None of the locations that you cited are in any way considered to be radiological materials waste dumps.”

Roger Ramjet, shame on you!  Shame on you, LTC Helbig for lying and for trying to scare off good people who have proved you wrong time and time again!

See the following:

The use of DU weapons by the U.S., the U.K., and NATO in Kuwait, Iraq, Bosnia, Croatia, Kosova, and possibly Afghanistan over the past decade led to investigation and opposition in several countries.

In 1999, MTP, the Laka Foundation (Netherlands), and the Campaign Against Depleted Uranium (UK) began the first attempt to create an international coalition against DU weapons by organizing a DU workshop at the Hague Appeal for Peace.

In 2003, MTP and several organizations in other countries co-founded the International Coalition to Ban Uranium Weapons (ICBUW), an extension of the effort begun at the Hague Appeal for Peace in 1999. ICBUW is a collaboration between grassroots organizations and technical experts to end the use of uranium and other radioactive materials in weaponry.
——

And also, see the following:

THE OTHER SIDE OF JUSTICE
Tamara Stupar

NIN, 10/30/97

The Gulf Syndrome in Bosnia

The Federal Committee’s report on the investigation of war crimes in Bosnia-Herzegovina contains data stating that NATO aviation used radioactive projectiles during the bombing of Republika Srpska and Knin Krajina; however, that document is coded “strictly confidential” and is not available to the public.

While the authors of the Dayton peace plan feverishly attempt to preserve the mosaic of a state whose future is still uncertain, medical specialists and members of some ecological movements and organizations have been warning for two years that the people there were not only victims of mutual destruction, but were also victims of a morbid NATO experiment of which the consequences, with certainty, will be far reaching.

Against both the hypocrisy of the Western political and military establishment and the local political and state ruling circles—who declare to support human values and principles while at the same time silently approving participation in the unscrupulous destruction of lives of “ordinary people” whose existence is often reduced to a mute testimony of their own helplessness—an isolated, and usually lonely, voice speaks out.

Dr. Zoran Stankovic (age 43), a pathologist and the head of the Institute of Forensic Medicine at the Military Medical Academy in Belgrade—who as a member of the Yugoslav Committee for investigating war crimes was in Republika Srpska in the fall of 1995 immediately after the bombing by NATO forces, and later continuously toured the most endangered locations—said to NIN that occurrences of “gulf sickness” are evident in the population. That syndrome in its mildest form is manifested by CNS disorders, psychological discomforts and digestive problems; its most acute form is manifested by a rise in malignancies, leukemia and higher numbers of stillborn babies.

Increased records of “gulf sickness” occurrences in the regions of Sarajevo, Foca, Doboj and Knin, are the basis of suspicion that NATO aviation—in violation of the Geneva Convention’s protection of war victims—used radioactive projectiles (whose penetrable armor contains weakened uranium) in Republika Srpska and Knin Krajina, just like during operation “Desert Storm” in southern Iraq in 1991, says Dr. Stankovic.

[more to follow]
——

LTC Helbig, stop your shameless campaign of lies.

Posted by Pale Rider on Oct 3, 2005 at 4:18 AM

More on the use of DU in the Balkans:

According to his statements, official precise data on the relationship between the rapid increase of, above all, malignant illnesses in Republika Srpska and the type of weaponry that NATO used during the bombing, is not yet available. Unofficially, however, we learned that the report by the Yugoslav Expert committee confirmed that the Allied aviation used radioactive projectiles; and due to the strictly confidential nature of this information, that document is unavailable to the public.

When asked why official Belgrade sources and the ruling heads of Republika Srpska are silent about this, Stankovic hopelessly shrugs his shoulders, stating that by not recognizing or marginalizing the problem, it is in effect a defense against responsibility.

He, however, announces that at the end of November he will, with the help of his colleagues (medical specialists of different backgrounds), begin research aiming to confirm the now hypothetical relationship between different manifestations of the radioactive syndrome and the weaponry which the Allied military forces—whose members are pro-democracy oriented and very sensitive to questions of human and minority rights—experimented with on the Serbian soldiers and civilians in Bosnia and Croatia. The first results of this painstaking research, which, according to Dr. Stankovic’s statements, is motivated solely by humanitarian and professional conscience, and whose financial basis is still uncertain, will be known at the latest by March of next year.

He emphasizes that precise data would enable the leadership in Republika Srpska to start an inquiry into NATO’s responsibility, and to request material compensation for the victims of the bombings.

The president of the Council of the New Green Party, Branka Jovanovic, who in the past two years has publicly warned of the tragic and long term consequences of using radioactive weapons in Bosnia, told NIN that Republika Srpska “is probably just another experimental region where the U.S.A. used nuclear projectiles.”

As support for this thesis she cites a recent public admittance by the assistant U.S. Secretary of Defense Kenneth Bacon, who confirmed in a Japanese newspaper Mainichi Shimbun that during a military exercise on the island Torisima near Okinawa “there occurred an incident, and by mistake 1520 radioactive projectiles were fired.” Bacon explained that weakened uranium (U-235 and U-236), in spite of confirmed radioactivity, is used because of its hard alloy in the penetrable armor of the projectile.

According to Bacon’s statement, after this incident created waves in the Japanese media, the bombs were transferred to South Korea, and later to the American naval base in Guam. Not a single Pentagon official, however, has denied the claim that the warehouse of nuclear projectiles has still not been transferred from the Japanese military base of Iwakuni Yamagushi, even though this was demanded by the local officials.

Jovanovic states that in June of this year Mainichi Shimbun published results of a research study done by the American military institute AFRI, which says that bombs containing weakened uranium cause cancer. The military institutes GOA and AEPRL simultaneously warned that the use of these weapons directly endangers the soldiers who handle them. Former U.S. Attorney General Ramsey Clark confirmed to the Japanese newspaper that after using radioactive projectiles in southern Iraq, which he characterized as a crime, a rise in the cases of leukemia, cancer and tumors in children were recorded.

Jovanovic also says that another indication is the unambiguous warning to members of SFOR in Bosnia not to drink local water and not to touch grass or earth with their hands.

——

LTC Helbig and your various shills: travel to these regions and tell the people poisoned by DU how they are safe and have nothing to worry about…

Posted by Pale Rider on Oct 3, 2005 at 4:20 AM

Basic numbers on the widespread use of DU: even CNN contradicts the good LTC Helbig and his parade of shameful lies.

Uranium arms warning issued in 1991
January 15, 2001

LONDON, England—Nuclear safety advisers for the British Government warned 10 years ago about the potential health hazards of controversial uranium tipped weapons.

The UK Atomic Energy Authority’s 1991 report warned that depleted uranium (DU) shells left in Kuwait after the Gulf War were potentially harmful.

DU weapons have been linked—although there is no solid scientific proof—to illnesses among peacekeepers who served in the Balkans, where the weapons were also used.

The report, which AEA confirmed to CNN.com was published in full in 1998 in response to a parliamentary question. It was publicised as senior medical officers of the 19-member NATO alliance met in Brussels on Monday to examine reports of health problems.

The special meeting of the Committee of the Chiefs of the Military Medical Services (COMEDS), which normally assembles twice a year, was being held at the Belgian Defence Ministry. 

The AEA report said: “Handling heavy metal munitions does pose some potential hazards, as does the possibility of the spread of radioactive and toxic contaminations as a result of firing in battle

Posted by Pale Rider on Oct 3, 2005 at 4:23 AM

LOW INTENSITY NUCLEAR WAR

by
Michel Chossudovsky

Professor of Economics, University of Ottawa, author of “The Globalization of Poverty”, second enlarged edition, Common Courage Press, 2001.

The death from leukemia of eight Italian peacekeepers stationed in Bosnia and Kosovo sparked an uproar in the Italian Parliament, following the leaking of a secret military document to the Italian newspaper La Republicca. In Portugal, the Defense Ministry was also involved in what amounted to a deliberate camouflage of “the cause of death” of Portuguese peacekeeper Corporal Hugo Paulino. “‘Citing “herpes of the brain’, the army refused to allow his family to commission a postmortem examination.” Amidst mounting political pressure, Defense Minister Julio Castro Caldas advised NATO Headquarters in November that he was withdrawing Portuguese troops from Kosovo: “They were not, he said, going to become uranium meat”.

As the number of cancer cases among Balkans “peacekeepers” rises, NATO’s cover-up has started to fracture. Several European governments have been obliged to publicly acknowledge the “alleged health risks” of depleted uranium (DU) shells used by the US Air Force in NATO’s 78-day war against Yugoslavia.

The Western media points to an apparent “split” within the military alliance. In fact there was no “division” or disagreement between Washington and its European allies until the scandal broke through the gilded surface.

Italy, Portugal, France and Belgium were fully aware that DU weapons were being used. The health impacts—including mountains of scientific reports—were known and available to European governments. Italy participated in the scheduling of the A-10 “anti-tank killer” raids (carrying DU shells) out of its Aviano and Gioia del Colle air force bases. The Italian Defense Ministry knew what was happening at military bases under its jurisdiction.

Washington’s European partners in NATO including Britain, France, Turkey, Greece have DU weapons in their arsenals. Canada is one of the main suppliers of depleted uranium. NATO countries share full responsibility for the use of weapons banned by the Geneva and Hague conventions and the 1945 Nuremberg Charter on war crimes.

Since the Gulf War, Washington launched a “cover-up” on the health impacts of DU toxic radiation known as the “Gulf War Syndrome”, with the tacit endorsement of its NATO partners.

While NATO had until recently denied using DU shells in the 1999 war against Yugoslavia, it now admits that although it did use DU ammunition, the shells “have negligible radioactivity

Posted by Pale Rider on Oct 3, 2005 at 4:26 AM

-continued-

In docile complicity, a new media consensus has unfolded: the mainstream press concurs without further scrutiny that only “peace-keepers” breathe the air. “But what about everybody else.“6 In Kosovo some 2 million civilian men, women and children have been exposed to the radioactive fallout since the beginning of the bombing in March 1999. In the Balkans, more than 20 million people are potentially at risk:

“The risk in Kosovo and elsewhere in the Balkans is augmented by the uncertainty of where DU was dropped in whatever form and what winds and surface water movements spread it further. Working the fields, walking about, just being there, touching objects, breathing and drinking water are all risky. A British expert predicted that thousands of people in the Balkans will get sick of DU. The radioactive and toxic DU-oxides don’t disintegrate. They are practically permanent.”

Keep in mind that the heavily armed “peacekeepers” together with United Nations staff and civilian personnel of “humanitarian” organisations entered Kosovo in June 1999. The spread of radioactive dust from DU, however, started on “day one” of the 78 day bombing of Yugoslavia. With the exception of NATO Special Forces—who were assisting the KLA on the ground—NATO military personnel was not present on the battlefield. In other words, there was no radioactive exposure to NATO troops during a “push button” air war, which the Alliance forces waged from the high skies. Yugoslav civilians are, therefore, at much greater risk because they were exposed to radioactive fallout throughout the bombings as well in the wake of the war. Yet the official communiqu

Posted by Pale Rider on Oct 3, 2005 at 4:28 AM

-continued-

COVER-UP

The United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP) and the World Health Organization (WHO) have tacitly accepted NATO-Pentagon assumptions concerning the health impacts of depleted uranium. When UNEP conducted its first assessment of DU radiation in Kosovo in 1999, NATO refused to provide the mission with maps indicating the locations of “affected areas” (points of impact where DU shells had fallen).

On the pretext that “there was insufficient data available to comprehensively address the issue of the impacts of depleted uranium ordnance,” UNEP produced an inconclusive and noncommittal “desk study” which was appended to the 1999 Balkans Task Force Report (BTF) on the environmental impacts of the War. 13 UNEP’s desk study pointed to the “possible use of DU” thereby implying that it was still unsure as to whether DU shells had actually been used.

UNEP’s evasiveness -claiming lack of sufficient data—contributed, in the wake of the bombings, to temporarily dissipating public concern. More generally, the UNEP-UNCHS Balkans Task Force report tends to downplay the seriousness of the environmental catastrophe triggered by NATO. Amply documented, the catastrophe was the deliberate result of military planning.14

NATO maps (indicating where DU shells had been targeted) were not required for UNEP and the WHO to conduct an investigation on the health impacts of depleted uranium radiation. A study of this nature—inevitably requiring a team of medical specialists in pedriatics and cancer working in liaison with experts on toxic radiation—was never carried out. In fact, UNEP’s stated “scientific” assumption precluded from the outset a meaningful assessment of the health impacts. According to UNEP:

“the effects of DU are mainly localized in the places DU has been used and the affected areas are likely to be small”. 15 See the 1999 desk study, op. cit.)

This proposition (which is presented without scientific proof) is shared by UNEP’s sister organization, the WHO:

“You would have to be very close to a damaged tank and be there within seconds of it being hit

Posted by Pale Rider on Oct 3, 2005 at 4:30 AM

UNEP AND NATO WORKING HAND IN GLOVE

Amidst the public outcry and mounting evidence of cancer among Balkans military personnel, UNEP conducted a second assessment in November 2000 which included field measurements of beta and gamma particle radiations in 11 so-called “affected areas” of Kosovo.

Despite NATO’s earlier refusal to collaborate with UNEP, the two organizations are currently working hand in glove. The composition of the mission was established in consultation with NATO. The representative from Greenpeace (involved in the 1999 study) had been dumped.

The broader health issues were not part of the mission’s terms of reference. The two medical researchers dispatched by the WHO in 1999 (as part of the desk study mission) had been replaced with experts from the US Army Center for Health Promotion and Preventive Medicine…

AC Laboratorium Spiez (ACLS) has actively collaborated in chemical weapons inspections in Iraq. Under the disguise of Swiss neutrality, ACLS constitutes an informal mouthpiece for NATO. ACLS has been on contract with NATO’s “Partnership for Peace” financed by the Swiss government’s contribution to the PfP.20

Although the November mission was still under UNEP auspices, the Swiss government was funding most of fieldwork with ACLS—a division of the Swiss military—playing a central role. The mission—integrated by representatives linked to the Military establishment—was working on the premise (amply reviewed on ACLS’s web page) that DU radioactive dust does not (under any circumstances) travel beyond the “point of release.”

The results of the report to be published in March 2001 are a foregone conclusion. They focus on radiation levels in the immediate vicinity of the target sites . According to the mission’s “back to office report” (January 2001):

...Already at this stage the Team can conclude that at some of the DU locations, the radiation level is slightly higher above normal at very limited spots. It would therefore be an unnecessary risk to the population to be in direct contact with any remnants of DU ammunition or with the spots where these have been found.”

DOUBLE STANDARDS

If radioactivity were confined to so-called “very limited spots”, why then have KFOR troops been instructed by their governments “not to eat local produce, have drinking water flown in

Posted by Pale Rider on Oct 3, 2005 at 4:34 AM

CONTAMINATION OVER A LARGE GEOGRAPHICAL AREA

According to NATO sources (communicated to UNEP), some 112 sites in Yugoslavia (of which 72 are in Kosovo) were targeted during the war with depleted uranium antitank shells. Between 30,000 and 50,000 DU shells were fired.

Scientific evidence amply confirms that the DU radioactive aerosol spreads from “the point of release” over a large geographical area suggesting that large parts of the province of Kosovo are contaminated. “[R]adioactive derivatives can linger in the air for months ‘‘Just one particle in the lungs is enough—a single particle could travel to the lymph nodes, where the radioactivity would lower the body’s defenses against lymphomas and leukemia’‘

According to World renowned radiologist Dr. Rosalie Bertell:

When used in war, the depleted uranium (DU) bursts into flame [and] releasing a deadly radioactive aerosol of uranium, unlike anything seen before. It can kill everyone in a tank. This ceramic aerosol is much lighter than uranium dust. It can travel in air tens of kilometres from the point of release, or be stirred up in dust and resuspended in air with wind or human movement. It is very small and can be breathed in by anyone: a baby, pregnant woman, the elderly, the sick. This radioactive ceramic can stay deep in the lungs for years, irradiating the tissue with powerful alpha particles within about a 30 micron sphere, causing emphysema and/or fibrosis. The ceramic can also be swallowed and do damage to the gastro-intestinal tract. In time, it penetrates the lung tissue and enters into the blood stream. ...It can also initiate cancer or promote cancers which have been initiated by other cancinogens”.

The targeted sites within Kosovo (see NATO map at http://balkans.unep.ch/du/targetmap.html) although concentrated on the South-western border are scattered throughout the province. Most of the villages and cities including Pristina, Prizren and Pec lie within less than 20 km. of the 72 DU target sites confirming that the entire province is contaminated.

NATO WAR CRIMES

The bombing of Yugoslavia is best described as a “low intensity nuclear war” using toxic radioactive shells and missiles. Amply documented, the radioactive fall-out potentially puts millions of people at risk throughout the Balkans.

In March 1999, NATO launched the air raids invoking broad humanitarian principles and ideals. NATO had “come to the rescue” of ethnic Albanian Kosovars on the grounds they were being massacred by Serb forces. The forensic reports by the FBI and Europol confirm that the massacres did not occur. In a cruel irony, Albanian Kosovar civilians are among the main victims of DU radiation.

To maintain the cover-up, NATO is now prepared to reveal a small fraction of the truth. The military Alliance—in liaison with NATO member governments—wants at all cost to maintain the focus on “peacekeepers” and keep local civilians out of the picture, because if the entire truth gets out, then people might start asking questions such as “how is it that the Kosovar Albanians, the people we were supposed to rescue are now the victims?” In both Bosnia and Kosovo, the UN has been careful not to record cancer cases among civilians. The narrow focus on “peacekeepers” is part of the cover-up. It distracts public opinion from the broader issue of civilian victims.

The primary victims of DU weapons are children, making their use a “war crime against children.” The use of depleted uranium munitions is only one among several NATO crimes against humanity committed in Iraq and the Balkans…

-last bit to follow-

Posted by Pale Rider on Oct 3, 2005 at 4:36 AM

-my final posting on this matter for now.  LTC Helbig, shame on you and shame on your shills for lying.—

According to official records, some 1800 Balkans peacekeepers (Bosnia, Croatia and Kosovo) suffer from health ailments related to DU radiation. Assuming the same level of risk (as a percentage of population), the numbers of civilians throughout former Yugoslavia affected by DU radiation would be in the tens of thousands. British scientist Roger Coghill suggests, in this regard, that “throughout the Balkan region, there will be an extra 10,150 deaths from cancer because of the use of DU. That will include local people, K-FOR personnel, aid workers, everyone.” Moreover, according to a report published in Athens during the War, the impacts of depleted uranium are likely to extend beyond the Balkans. Albania, and Macedonia but also Greece, Italy, Austria and Hungary face a potential threat to human health as a result of the use of radioactive depleted uranium shells during the 1999 War.

While no overall data on civilian deaths have been recorded, partial evidence confirms that a large numbers of civilians have already died as result of DU radiation since the war in Bosnia:

“DU radiation and an apparent use of defoliants by US/NATO troops against Serbian land and population [in Bosnia], have caused many birth defects among babies born after the US/NATO bombing and occupation; the magnitude of this problem has stunned Serbian medical experts and panicked the population.”

A recent account points to several hundred deaths of civilians solely in one Bosnian village:

The village is empty, the cemetery full. Soon there will be no more room for the dead. Among refugee families who moved to Bratunac from Hadzici [in the outskirts of Sarajevo] there is a hardly a household not cloaked in mourning

Posted by Pale Rider on Oct 3, 2005 at 4:39 AM

And lest anyone forget what this is really all about:

LTC Roger Helbig, United States Air Force: A Bully Pushing Around Civilians—Air Force Colonel Abuses American Citizens over Uranium Weapons Coverup
By Dr. Doug Rokke, US Army, Ret., and Bob Nichols, Project Censored Award Winner
Apr 11, 2005, 23:57

April 11, 2005—(Oklahoma City) “Individuals on web sites throughout the United States have complained over a period of months about the abusive and aggressive actions of an Air Force Lieut. Colonel named Roger Helbig,” stated Project Censored Award Winning writer Bob Nichols.

“Col. Helbig has consistently misrepresented himself and his participation, voluntarily or on a paid basis, as a “minder” or enforcer for the DOD lie about Uranium Munitions in direct contravention of US Army Regulations and Orders,” Nichols stated.

“Col. Helbig apparently is fervently following the Secret Los Alamos Memo about Uranium Weapons (UW), aka so-called “Depleted Uranium,” instructing personnel to lie about Uranium Weapons to maintain the political viability of continued use of the Genocidal Weapons: “weaponized radioactive and poisonous ceramic uranium oxide gas and dust” in Iraq and throughout Central Asia,” added Nichols.

Nichols stated “Dr. Doug Rokke, Ph.D., is the former Army Officer in charge of the Pentagon’s Depleted Uranium Project. Dr Rokke is a career officer, loyal to the Constitution of the United States of America, not to any political party. He is the man the people of the United States can turn to for “on the level information”  about the true nature of Uranium Weapons (UW.)

Dr. Rokke commented, “LTC Roger Helbig, United States Air Force: I would suggest that since you claim to be so knowledgeable about DU and my specific activities during Gulf War 1 and while I was the Director of the U.S. Army Depleted Uranium that you produce the actual official documents, not some comments by Bob Cherry or Ed Battle or Mike Kilpatrick, your bosses up the line, verifying your comments.”

Rokke added “Unless you can do so, please cease and go away. But before you go away you still have not answered;  why you, as an United States Air Force officer, refuse to support my / our actions to ensure that United States Department of Defense officials provide medical care to all DU casualties and clean up all environmental contamination as required by AR 700-48 and TB 9-1300-278; and, that medical care is provided to all DU casualties as required by Lt General Ron Peake’s April 29, 2004 order.” 

Dr. Rokke concluded “It is time for you to decide. The question is not about me, but whether or not United States Department of Defense personnel comply with their own requirements to provide medical care and clean up all environmental contamination as specified in AR 700-48, TB 9-1300-278, and all of the orders mandating medical care for DU casualties.”

Posted by Pale Rider on Oct 3, 2005 at 4:41 AM

Ramjet .. Thank you for the compliment on my rhetorical skills. Will keep working on the facts. You ask about my relation to GhostRabbit. Mostly the same as my relation with you, an acquaintance met over the Internet.

Now, getting back to the use of DU as counterweights in airplanes. If I can widen the scope of the question a little. Do you, or anyone else, know if the any of the planes involved in 9/11 were the types that would have DU counterweights? How much DU is typically used as a counterweight in a plane?

Posted by David in Canada on Oct 3, 2005 at 7:11 AM

Answer these facts, Roger Ramjet:

The military are not the only users of depleted uranium, it is used as a counterweight in some aircraft. El Al Flight LY 1862 crashed into a block of flats on the outskirts of Amsterdam (October 1992). Apart from the immediate consequences of the crash (at least 43 people killed on the ground, the exact number not known due to illegal immigrants living in the area), 850 people have since fallen ill as a consequence of a giant fireball that erupted from the plane and choking white smoke. The plane was known to be carrying 1,500 kg of depleted uranium (only 163 kg recovered), plus the possibility of nerve gas agents or biological weapons agents. The plane was destined for the Israel Institute for Biological Research (a top secret establishment for biological and chemical warfare, where according to an ex-employee ‘There is hardly a single known or unknown form of chemical or biological weapon ... which is not manufactured at the institute’ [Sunday Times, 4 October 1998]). The crash that occurred at Stansted Airport less than a minute from take-off narrowly missed outlying farm buildings, there was no loss of life on the ground (December 1999). The aircraft was carrying depleted uranium as a tail fin counterweight. Most of the depleted uranium has not been recovered. In a paper published in Nature physicist Robert L Parker estimated a worst case scenario of 250,000 people exposed to DU in a 747 crash.

Whilst the rare crash of a plane carrying DU is a local problem, the main concern with depleted uranium is the use by the military, as has been recently highlighted in the Gulf and former-Yugoslavia. DU is a heavy metal, in common with other heavy metals it is highly toxic and radioactive. Wars involving the use of DU are likely to be the most toxic in human history. The ‘success’ of DU in its two most recent field trials both as a penetrator and armour is likely to hasten its use on the battlefield unless there is urgent international action to outlaw its use.

And, the FAA warns:

The U.S. Federal Aviation Administration (the FAA) tells us that “The main hazard associated with depleted uranium is the harmful effect the material could have if it enters the body. If particles are inhaled or digested, they can be chemically toxic and cause a significant and long-lasting irradiation of internal tissue.” 1 The FAA further advises to “avoid contact with balance weights using depleted uranium” and to “avoid breathing or swallowing particles of balance weights found damaged or with cadmium plating damaged or lost.” 

The U.S. Army experts agree with the FAA’s warnings: “...if depleted uranium enters the body, it has the potentiality of causing serious medical consequences. The associated risk is both chemical and radiological.”

Posted by Pale Rider on Oct 3, 2005 at 7:58 AM

Depleted Uranium Released During Canadian Plane Crash

Little-Known Use of DU in Commercial Jets Exposed

By Christopher Bollyn

The recent crash of a Boeing 747 in Halifax, Canada, raises a number of questions about the use of depleted uranium (DU) in airplanes, public health concerns and the 9-11 attacks. When a Boeing 747 crashed and burned on takeoff at Halifax International Airport in Nova Scotia, Canada, on Oct. 14, an official accident investigator said the aircraft probably contained radioactive depleted uranium.

Bill Fowler, an investigator with the Transportation Safety Board of Canada, said the plane was likely equipped with DU as counterweights in its wings and rudder.

Posted by David in Canada on Oct 3, 2005 at 9:43 AM

...

PENTAGON RADIATION LEVELS

Around the Pentagon there were reports of high radiation levels after 9-11. American Free Press has documentation that radiation levels in Alexandria and Leesburg, Va., were much higher than usual on 9-11 and persisted for at least one week afterward.

In Alexandria, seven miles south of the burning Pentagon, a doctor with years of experience working with radiation issues found elevated radiation levels on 9-11 of 35 to 52 counts per minute (cpm) using a

Posted by David in Canada on Oct 3, 2005 at 9:44 AM

David in Canada,

Excellent posts!  Thank you for the info on aircraft!  I searched high and low and all I found was the article on the El Al Flight LY 1862 that crashed in Amsterdam (October 1992).

What say you, Roger Ramjet?  Natalie?  Any other ideological hacks want to nose around in the tail of a commercial aircraft?

Posted by Pale Rider on Oct 3, 2005 at 10:04 AM

Yes David the aircraft info is good, BTW Rabbit meant to say the same. Especially interesting regarding Pentagon because radiation was measured I believe. Also at WTC’s sites, it may explain the readings, which Rabbit has read about somewhere.
.
.Hooray…. Pale Rider… Welcome back, ITT is a good site to check up on complaints as Rabbit said. They do their duty by reacting to complaints, but that is not the end of the issue..
.
.Bad luck Natty Ratty - Dodgy Rodgy.
.
We have us a DEMOCRACY here, your lying complaints have failed you again..
.
Rabbit wonders if the SHILLS dare cry Wolf again?  .
..

Posted by GhostRabbit on Oct 3, 2005 at 7:03 PM

Natty Ratty .. Dodgy Rodgy .. Rabbit Dung

Someone do my name please.

Posted by David in Canada on Oct 3, 2005 at 10:49 PM

“He did not head up a study which concluded that there is no safe way to use DU munitions.

Rokke can not support the claims made on behalf of his own experience, let alone the wild claims that he has made about DU.

Roger “

Roger has reminded me how useless it is to argue with right wing nut jobs. 

Coincidentally, Rog, you “can not support” any of your claims against Rokke.  You’ve shown us nothing.

But that’s irrelevant, because Dr. Rokke isn’t the only person telling the world about DU.  And about the Pentagon’s numerous LIES about uranium munitions.

Christian Science Monitor tells us that parts of Baghdad are 300, 1000, 1300 and 1900 times more radioactive than normal cities.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0515/p01s02-woiq.html

I suppose by Roger’s logic that makes the Christian Science Monitor part of Al Qaeda, the communists, and the gay conspiracy wrapped up in one.

http://crimesofthestate.blogspot.com/

Posted by johndoraemi on Oct 3, 2005 at 11:01 PM

The Bob Nichols article is dictated by Doug Rokke, and yes, I intend to unmask him as the phony that he is .. the article is not true.  I am a retired reservist, so is Rokke.  Neither of us is in the active military or has been in the active duty military for many years .. I was on active duty from 69-74.  Rokke was on active duty in 1991 and perhaps 1992.  Bob Nichols is Rokke’s designated hack; he never worked for a real newspaper or as a reporter of any kind before he became Rokke’s hack.

Posted by Ramjet on Oct 4, 2005 at 1:57 AM

Being an unmasked phony yourself Roger Ramjet aka: LTC Roger Helbig,
.
How exactly do you :
.
A)  Intend to achieve that after failing to do so, dismally all over the internet for so long?
.
B)  Think this will make a scrap of difference to the enormous amount of evidence presented above in this thread and elsewhere?
.
Did Rokke Shag your old lady or something?

Posted by GhostRabbit on Oct 4, 2005 at 3:43 AM

Interesting to see Nat and Roger posting about same time, see God Squad thread.
.
Things that make Rabbit’s go hmmmmm….................................................^^................................................

Posted by GhostRabbit on Oct 4, 2005 at 3:46 AM

Hi ho,

Rabbit,Rabbit,Rabbit,

I’ve been reading this thread over the past couple of days and it’s occurred to me,as it should soon to you,that Natali(ar)e and Roger(to infinity and beyond!)Ramjet are military/industrial shills.Think hard about that.They are true-believing salemen of the worst sort.No matter what argument you pose,no matter what evidence you present,no matter what method you use short of actually making them sit down and eat a pile of DU,I suppose,will make them admit they are wrong.At least until they quit working for that corporation and the expiration of the confidentiality contract.

I’m on your side,but,well,it does no good to argue with these myrmidons.The only way to win against a machine is to dismantle it.

“Cigarettes do not cause cancer”
-every single tobacco executive

Remember that some opponents will never learn to count their losses,and some have never learned to couint at all.

Posted by wwoods on Oct 4, 2005 at 5:38 AM

Oh,one last thing.

I also believe the whole missile and Pentagon thing is nonsense.This administration is too stupid to pull off such an elaborate hoax.

There is such a thing as dumb luck,and it counts too.

Posted by wwoods on Oct 4, 2005 at 5:48 AM

Actually,they arent dumb at all,wwoods.They have a dumb puppet they use to cover their tracks,(which many of the sheeple,until recently,love).The things done by this administration,may seem dumb,or beyond dumb to you or me,but they are acomplishing exactly what they want. BTW ,did you watch the 3 min movie,I listed above?Can anyone say it was a hoax after seeing it? I guess a bunch of Arabs that could barely fly,armed with boxcutters could have ALOT of dumb luck… Like having the US defences STAND DOWN,at just the right time… or the fact that the airforce was practicing war games,at Chaneys direction,using the senario of hijacked planes THE SAME DAY,so the air traffic controllers didn’t know if there were really hijacked planes,of if they were just for the war games… or the fact that no one of any power flew on public airlines that day,many cancelled there flight plans!I could go on to list about 100 other suspicious things about that day,shall I? How about the expert on explosives,at the scene of the pentagon,who smelled a certain kind of military explosive,immediatly following the “crash”?how is it,people nearby described a missle “whooshing sound"before the attack?Of course that was before the spin masters suggested to them it was a jet plane..ect.. ect.. ad nauseum CAN YOU SAY FALSE FLAG OPERATION? Almost the SAME plan was devised to use to disredit Castro in the “60s,Thankfully,Pres.Kennedy refused to implement it.Kinda makes you wonder why HE was killed.

Posted by Kaw Valley Kid on Oct 4, 2005 at 6:13 AM

Hi Wwoods, it’s good to see you back on this thread, it has come along way and yet nowhere since your last visit I would say. The Rabbit has promised the Shills he will be in their burial party, and it looks like it is forming as we speak.
.
Too soon to sing “ding dong the witch is dead”, but we can start to stock up on shovels.
.

Posted by GhostRabbit on Oct 4, 2005 at 7:21 AM

KVK how about joining the GOD SQUAD thread, for 911. Natalie has taken up the invitation to take it there, and the fun has barely begun.
.
There is already a well dug in Troll, so some interaction between the two species is on the cards, and there is a couple of 911 issues Rabbit would like to share with someone who clearly has been looking at deatils..
I’m particularly interested in establishing exactly how long the buildings took to collapse.

Posted by GhostRabbit on Oct 4, 2005 at 8:10 AM

Hi ho,

Correction on one point.Several of the hijackers were actually armed with lockblade knives.A box cutter is a pretty easy weapon to beat,whereas a folding knife with a blade of three and a half inches,under legal length,is pretty darn dangerous.It does take skill to fly a plane,but not as much as one thinks,especially if you go to flight school.Remember,it’s an airliner and not a fighter jet. 

I can believe in coincidence before conspiracy,naive as that may sound.Primarily because of one point:if the people aren’t dead,where are they.I’d sure the people on that plane were patriotic,and I believe that Mrs.Olsen would do just about anything to help her party.Still can one believe they’d give up the lives and go into hiding to further this administration’s goals?Could the Bush assume they’d all be loyal Republicans—not a democrat or Bush-hater among them?Unless all the people on that plane were murdered and put WAY out of sight,where are they?Still,there’d be some trail.For that matter,where’s the plane?Something that big cannot be landed in some farmer’s field.That means someone,actually quite a few people,would have to know about it’s location.I’m sorry,but the more one examines the details and the logistics,one sees a conspiracy too big to keep covered—especially nowadays.Again,you can kill people to enforce silence,but how many before somebody smells blood and an accompanying rat?

Posted by wwoods on Oct 6, 2005 at 12:23 PM

Oh,I almost forgot.

Don’t get me wrong.I’d love to see the Bush team choke on the bone from an elaborate plot like that you’ve been describing,but I doubt it will happen.

Posted by wwoods on Oct 6, 2005 at 12:26 PM

Wwoods Rabbit has not begun to describe any elaborate conspiracies at all, check.

Merely not accepting the official claims of an elaborate conspiracy, especially where conflicting evidence exists.

The details are being dealt with on God Squad thread, so Rabbit shall not go into them here.

The FACT is thjat 7 of the official list of alleged hijackers is alive and was not involved on 911.

That on its own blows the hijackers story seriously apart. There is as yet no way of knowing all of the truth. The one sure thing is that the official story does not works on any level.

The type of knives is not important, what is important is how we know of any knives, how good is that information?

An example right now is the recent Bali Bombing. How many of you know what happened?

I’ll bet everyone thinks it was suicide bombers?  Well it wasn’t. One bomb was under a table, that I know of and I expect this was so in all of them.

http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2005/s1474901.htm

Posted by GhostRabbit on Oct 6, 2005 at 6:09 PM

“I also believe the whole missile and Pentagon thing is nonsense.  This administration is too stupid to pull off such an elaborate hoax.”

The people running the show are not “stupid.”  They’re “evil.”  Evil and treasonous. 

I don’t like to delve into the Pentagon crash because it’s impossible to prove one way or another at this point.  So I honestly don’t know what hit the pentagon.

I DO know that nothing SHOULD have hit the Pentagon with 75 minutes of advanced warning and Andrews Air Force Base 10 miles away, and anti-aircraft missile batteries located on the roof there for just this sort of eventuality.

However, IF the Boeing 757 that they claim hit the Pentagon did so, then there would be no reason for them to hide the video from the public, and for them to doctor the 5 frames of alleged surveillance camera footage from the parking lot cam.

The hotel and gas station videos were confiscated within 5 minutes of impact by FBI, never to be seen again. 

The parking lot frames show no plane at all in the first frame,  before the crash.  The crude Photoshop enhanced explosions have placed the image of plane wreckage in other frames, but it is highly suspect.  Several web sites have analyzed how the shadows that should be visible, when the explosion was a bright light source (TOO BRIGHT, BY THE WAY FOR A JET FUEL EXPLOSION—SEE WTC SOUTH SAME DAY) do not show up.  The frame had the brightness levels raised across the whole image, even the parts supposedly in shadow.

What are they hiding?

Why was the first act after the plane crashes to give the executives of the airlines $15,000,000,000?

Which plane went where?

I don’t know.

I do know that on CBS’s web site right now this minute, it says that Flight 77 hit the World Trade Center.  How did that get there?

Posted by johndoraemi on Oct 6, 2005 at 6:14 PM

Hi John

Mostly agree with your take on it. Don’t know.

To quote myself ” I don

Posted by David in Canada on Oct 6, 2005 at 7:58 PM

Or here is another fantasy of mine.

That some of the truth (or new lies) will come out one day and the reason they will give for the delay and cover up will be :

” For reasons of national security “

Don’t you feel better now?

Posted by David in Canada on Oct 6, 2005 at 8:14 PM

John we want you on the God Squad thread but Rabbit is of same opinion as yourself. I also have experience in Pyrotechnics/(inc Chemistry) and E*plos*ves and physics. Easily to the extent necessary to know that the WTCs were brought down with exlosives. I have a private theory about exactly how they did the cores, but the cutters were where they should have been by Rabbit’s reckoning and quite visible if you know what to look for. The timings of the collapses are the most irrefuatble and provable evidence of foul play though. Witnesses such as Rodriguez and co especially but also others gives expected support for explosives as well.

The collapse of WTC 7 is the BIGGEST PINKEST ELEPHANT ever to have been ignored by anybody in any living room in the history of coverups.

Posted by GhostRabbit on Oct 6, 2005 at 9:23 PM

Wearily….....the Rabbit climbs to the top of the pile of Radioctive Poisonous Waste….............he plants a small flag, firmly in the ground…..............and hops away, hopefully for the last time…...............................................

.........................................
..........................^^...............................

Posted by GhostRabbit on Oct 9, 2005 at 9:57 PM

Saluting the small flag.

Posted by David in Canada on Oct 9, 2005 at 11:15 PM

Yoh! Rabbit & Good Friends.

Part I

It has been a while.  I have been on other fronts.

I see “Doger Damebget” and “Nat” have been quoting the same old, same old, again and again.
Studies done by Gov. & Corp. shills like them.
They keep a vain hope that they will be the last to post on this thread.
It would mean points for them.

They have never answered my question.
If DU is not a problem why is Nuke generated Waste such a problem in this or any other country.

They are people that

Posted by Eadora on Oct 11, 2005 at 6:25 PM

Part II

I would like now to ask Helbig & Nat.
  What are you defending?
The right to kill with a horrible polluting, disease ridden weapon.

Like

Posted by Eadora on Oct 11, 2005 at 6:28 PM

Part III

This is what Helbig & Natalie have bough into, God help their souls.

You friend Rabbit and your Compadre

Posted by Eadora on Oct 11, 2005 at 6:29 PM

Please Read

Posted by Eadora on Oct 11, 2005 at 6:34 PM

Eadora,

Welcome back.

You are like a knight in shining armour, riding across the desert on a fine arab charger, to our emotional rescue.

Posted by David in Canada on Oct 11, 2005 at 10:31 PM

Small Rabbit sidles up and licks the toes of the mighty Eadora.

Amazon Queen of Rabbit’s heart.

Found some other stuff I wasn’t going to post after all since the number 363 was so pretty.
Since it is now no more, the following might show why they still argue against the war crime angle, in a lame sort of way.

Bush JUNTA actully got exemption for war crimes from UN to start with. They tried to get an extension in 2004, but failed.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=CLA20050927&articleId=199

Posted by GhostRabbit on Oct 12, 2005 at 12:04 AM

Silly Rabbit posted the wrong link.

Here is the right one.  It is really very telling and almost should have a thread of it’s own.

http://www.cuttingedge.org/news/n1933.cfm

————————————————————————
These are all new to the thread too thinks Rabbit.

http://www.ratical.org/radiation/DU/DKonDU.html

http://www.iacenter.org/depleted/du.htm

http://www.eoslifework.co.uk/du2012.htm

http://www.state.nv.us/nucwaste/news2001/nn11107.htm

http://www.sundayherald.com/32522

http://www.oilempire.us/warcrime.html

Posted by GhostRabbit on Oct 12, 2005 at 12:15 AM

perhaps 1 shell going off isn’t enough to get poisoned by the DU
But in a war scenario many such shells are fired.
in fact more then 2200+ tons of DU has been exposed to the troops and the IRaq citizens.
Which far exceeds what can be tolerable
Torture,DU,excessive force,desicretion of dead taliban
On a third world country you are there to free?
PETRO ~EURO is the real reason for war and indeed there will be a new nuremburg
the only people left supporting the war are those that are as dumb as a door knob

Posted by skullker on Oct 22, 2005 at 5:30 AM

Since Skulker claims to have accurate information, let’s start with his “one shell going off” .. Depleted Uranium armor penetrators are NOT shells .. a shell contains explosive and kills with shrapnel effect and the concussive blast .. DU armor penetrators do not contain explosive .. they are not shells.  Now, given that he starts off with that wrong information, how much of the rest is accurate .. 2200 tons .. probably not, but no one knows for sure.  What we do know is that even the A-10 tankbuster aircraft only fires one DU bullet out of 5 in a burst.  They also would be armed with DU only when on a mission when they expected to encounter enemy armor.

Posted by Ramjet on Oct 22, 2005 at 4:01 PM

Yoh!  Skullker Mon Ami

In case you are new to this forum.
There are some ten pages to this thread.
It deals with the issue of depleted uranium in some depth.

Roger Ramjet was outted early on.
He is Colonel Roger Helbig USAF.  retread
He is a talking head for the Defense Department

Posted by Eadora on Oct 22, 2005 at 4:57 PM

DU Armor penetrators are shells
they look like a bullet (much larger)
when fired they leave the tank at more then the speed of sound ( must be some explosive to push that shell at those speeds
this causes the outer casing to be broken on contact and when used against armour fragmentation will occur
if used on softer targets no fragmentation takes place yet they split open
either case scenario leaves the deadly contents exposed
4.5 billion yr half life
again all these tactics against a third world nation
America is now looked at as a terrorist state by all countries in the world save for britain which sits with them
sadam is gone its time for America to leave
no peace can be had as long as America remains there
the dumbed down people may believe otherwise
I am a weapons expert All the BS in the world wont work on me
to get the projectile to move you need a propellent
I quoted 2200+  from a source
and they were used on citites as well as tanks
no the tanks were only armed with DU rounds 100% of the time
IT is a convenient way for America to get rid of its nuclear waste
even a 5 yr old knows it takes an explosive to propel the projectile out of the tank they leave the tank at such high velocity = to a 300 magnum high power rifle approx. 4000 ft sec
the outer casing of the projectile is much softer material
and peels easily exposing the inner depleted uranium
shells = catridges as in bullets

RAMJET please do your HOMEWORK

Posted by skullker on Oct 22, 2005 at 5:10 PM

THANKS eadora
rodger ramjet has met his match here I can teach him about ballistics

Posted by skullker on Oct 22, 2005 at 5:16 PM

Poor Old Roger has already been skinned a couple of times here.

But it’s never to late to peel some more bark off the old stump.

Go get him “skullker”  I’m off for a while, and a goodnight to ya all.
Sleep tight R.R.

Posted by Eadora on Oct 22, 2005 at 5:28 PM

shell

  ammunition consisting of a cylindrical metal casing containing an explosive charge and a projectile; fired from a large gun

http://www.wordreference.com/definition/shell

Posted by Ramjet on Oct 22, 2005 at 5:40 PM

For a “weapons expert”, you sure don’t seem to know much .. like the difference between “propellant” and “explosive” .. propellant is what you are talking about as the source of energy that propels the bullet at near supersonic speed out the cannon barrel .. “explosive” is the charge that fills the “shell” .. since DU armor penetrator munitions are not filled with “explosive” they are not shells.  They do not even look like a shell .. they are stilleto shaped so that all that kinetic energy is concentrated at the end of a long thin point to punch through the armor.  They cause explosions of the target’s fuel and ammunition due the intense heat generated on impact, but they do not in themselves explode.  So much for your being a ballistics expert, but then again, I have not met too many of you shills for the anti-DU movement in this discussion who really are expert at anything.  Experts don’t hide behind phony names and they communicate with me directly.

Posted by Ramjet on Oct 22, 2005 at 6:44 PM

Ramjet

Posted by Eadora on Oct 22, 2005 at 7:30 PM

I am not anti Du ,by all means stock pile them to the roof incase of a third world war.but dont use them on a third world country that was stripped bare of weapons by the UN.

if you think that there is no explosive sit on one while it is detonated
propellent : modern day propellent makes a dynamite stick seem like a fircracker.
I don’t want to argue It is not of my nature to do so,but this issue of DU is insane , especially on a third world country that has been defanged by the U.N..
America has made sure all of its nuclear waste doesnt go to waste .
I would even go as far as to say against tanks they are a usefull weapon,but not on the citites there is now a field of
uranium in populated areas that people you are suppose to be freeing will have to live with( or die with)
for many years to come
Anyone that condones this use of DU on populated areas has no morals what soever
The nightmare that will follow up this war of terror will be felt by both the IRAQI and the US soldiers .The soldiers wil have to live with their actions for the rest of their lives .The Iraqi will be mutilated by this for many years.
Sadam(the American puppet) was better for the IRAQI then this
the GOVT. sanctioned torture,DU, defecating the dead Taliban.I thought America was the bringer of freedom, I now see it as the bringer of death.
May god have mercy on their souls

Posted by skullker on Oct 23, 2005 at 5:21 AM

Rabbit sees the dirty Shill, have you licked your wounds you filthy lying skunk Roger Ramjet?  You are a lying shill and like Eadora says you are dead and buried from page one to here, number ten, not once but ten times….......... you are the original Cyber Zombie…................. Lurking here like a maggot still hoping to suck some pus out of an old wound.

You have NOTHING,

You never never scored anything, not a skerrick of a point for your beloved DU.

Rabbit promises any who doubt this that the thread shows a clear case against the use of Depleted Uranium.  It also shows LTC ROGER HELBIG to be a lying pentagon bully and an advocate of war crimes.

Ramjet is an EVIL cockroach and Rabbit wacks him soundly in the head in the name of all life, in the name of all children.

For you and your masters Roger Death Bringer.

MASTERS OF WAR

Come you masters of war
You that build all the guns
You that build the death planes
You that build the big bombs
You that hide behind walls
You that hide behind desks
I just want you to know
I can see through your masks

And I hope that you die
And your death’ll come soon
I will follow your casket
In the pale afternoon
And I’ll watch while you’re lowered
Down to your deathbed
And I’ll stand o’er your grave
‘Til I’m sure that you’re dead

                            ....................  Bob Dylan

Posted by GhostRabbit on Oct 23, 2005 at 5:56 AM

Yoh GhostRabbit

Can you believe that toad!
Hanging around like a spider in a dark corner just waiting for some guy like the skullker to Be Bop By. 
I guess he figured we had gone fishing!

From:  Posted by Ramjet on October 4, 2005 at 3:57 AM
To:    Posted by Ramjet on October 22, 2005 at 6:01 PM
This guy sat in the Bush. For 18 days!  (pun intended)

These articles show the stubborn refusal of the Defense Department to properly study the problem.

http://www.iicph.org/docs/du_update_1_3.htm

The work by Dr. Hari Sharma of the University of Waterloo is especially revealing.
As is the work or Han Kang of the US Depat. Of Vet Affairs, regarding Birth Defect, rates among the families of Gulf War Vets.  The Gov shut him down and shut him up before his work could be completed.

CHECK IT OUT!  Fellows. 
And

Posted by Eadora on Oct 23, 2005 at 8:09 AM

“I am just a poor boy and my story is often told”

Rodger rAMJET I will not attack you personally you are still a human being.
I am not needed here , eadora handles you with aplomb!
I hold back no punches when I am faced with war mongering fools, that back the use of torture, and the use of DU on civilian populations.The trouble in America is that,
although they only make up 5% of the world’s population,
they have the arrogance of strength that will be it’s down fall.Instead of using that strength to bring the world closer together they use it today to split it asunder.
this arrogance of power is a lesson that America has failed to understand.
to the war mongers that continue to back the war you are as dumb as a door knob please.
” your old road is rapidly changing get out a new one if you can’t lend a hand the time they are a changin|” BOB

Posted by skullker on Oct 23, 2005 at 9:50 AM

Eodora
Yoh!  skullker -
I have to tell you my understanding on DU penetrators, to keep me honest.. 
It is my understanding that DU penetrator round contains no high explosive.
It does not need any!  It is what is called PYROPHORIC. 
U238 is a very hard dense and unstable element.
When it hits anything of moderate density at a high velocity it immediately begins to burn at a super hot temperature.  It immediately melts through any protection and sprays the inside of any tank or building with burning white-hot weird uranium oxides.
It burns into a uranium ceramic gas, and a very find dust containing all sorts of radioactive muck that no mask or clothing can possibly protect you against.

When a projectile hits a target, 70% of its depleted uranium burns
and oxidizes, bursting into highly toxic, radioactive micro particles.
Being so tiny, these particles can be ingested or inhaled after being
deposited on the ground or carried kilometers away by the wind, the food
chain or water.

they wont burn up like that
they are super dense and are made to penetrate thick steel plating
the burn factor is caused by the friction so there will be a partial vaporization of the projectile .but it is designed to not
break up
minute particles do vaporize ,but the dense core will stay 1 piece it will only fragment on armour ,the rounds that were used on the civilians (soft targets cement,toyotas etc..)
will not break up .However the outer casing will split wide open even on soft targets exposing the uranium.
there really is only minute amounts of vaporization of soft targets
minute amounts will kill you just the same though in the long run
I think people are underestimating the amount of radiation
poisoning though
falugah and basara were pounded repeatedly by these tank rounds and radiation levels are said to be = to 1 x-ray
every 2 hours 10 feet away.imagine a child finding and playing with the pieces strewn all over the place
it is not acceptable and the other 95% of the world should have another Nuremburg concerning this and the torturing .
I am not an expert on radiattion effects, those figures I posted were from a site I read which may or may not be accurate .In my books any radiation is not acceptable,
What really bothers me though is BUSH ‘s willingness to use bunker buster nuclear bombs in a preemptive strike on Iran. That to me is unacceptable
are we heading for armageddon .Bush will not back down he is a sciopath bent on filling his and his cronies pockets with both America’s wealth and the middleast’s wealth.

Posted by skullker on Oct 23, 2005 at 10:13 AM

comme une espece de cancer les combatant sont des tete dure
il ya pas des mots pour explique leurs actions
Le dieu vas regles leurs actions c’est la diable qui vas prendre leurs esprit

Posted by skullker on Oct 23, 2005 at 10:24 AM

Dodgy Rodgy, Death from the sky;

Endorsing war crimes makes us cry.

When the truth came out to stay,

Dodgy Rodgy ran away.

Posted by David in Canada on Oct 23, 2005 at 11:11 AM

ghost rabbit I would hate to be your enemy lol

Posted by skullker on Oct 23, 2005 at 4:13 PM

The claim .. “bursting into highly toxic, radioactive micro particles.  Being so tiny, these particles can be ingested or inhaled after being deposited on the ground or carried kilometers away by the wind, the food chain or water” coupled with “It burns into a uranium ceramic gas, and a very find dust containing all sorts of radioactive muck that no mask or clothing can possibly protect you against” is untrue ..

U238, as is all Uranium, is pyrophoric and does spontaneously ignite on impact.  The resultant Uranium Oxide particles, however are not capable of being carried kilometers away in the wind, the food chain or water, they are extremely dense and are confined to a few meters of the point of impact.  The particles also are not so fine that no mask can protect against them, and a mask is only required if you crawling around inside the tank that was hit by the munition.  Extensive studies have been made, not just conjecture, as is common on this forum by the anti-DU loonies who regurgitate the same claims on a several times a day basis and then claim “victory” because each is not successively rebutted.

If you want to learn something, you should read some of them .. the most recent and most comprehensive, based upon actual test firings against an armored vehicle, is at

http://www.sandia.gov/news-center/news-eleases/2005/def-nonprolif-sec/snl-dusand.pdf

A good series of un-biased articles by Bob Evans, a real investigative reporter of some years standing, is in the Newport News Daily Press

Second article of the series .. Of Rodents and Radiation - Ch 2 - From the Nose to the Brain
http://www.dailypress.com/news/specials/dp-du2,0,4684968.story?coll=dp-speci
al-news has link to all seven articles

Posted by Ramjet on Oct 23, 2005 at 4:51 PM

HELP….................^^................................

Posted by GhostRabbit on Oct 23, 2005 at 5:39 PM

Rabbit is blocked from other threads, but this one is still working…...................What does it mean…................Keep wacking the Ramjet, TOAD…........Rabbit must solve this problem, seemed like HE had pulled his old tricks again, but why then can Rabbit post here?  Maybe it to will go now, it happened last time like this rolling, help, people if Rabbit disapears e-mail Seamus, the SHILLS have lying tricks up their slimy sleeves.

Posted by GhostRabbit on Oct 23, 2005 at 5:42 PM

Yoh Rabbit

I’m having problems to.
Done a google search “GhostRabbit”
Almost got yer address
don’t disappear! OK !

Eadroa Pravda   not Eadora

Posted by Eadora on Oct 23, 2005 at 5:54 PM

Still hopping so far…......Rabbit has posted info saying that 30% of the round burns up on contact with armor above here am sure and that is the figure Rabbit is used to anyway.  true about the soft targets, but the stuff is rarely fired at soft targets, and when it is used as it mostly is, in bombs, it ALL burns into Ceramic Uranium Oxide Vapours.  These form EVIL Uranyls on contact with water, which is of course what happens when they are breathed in.  It is also how it is trapped and enters the food chain via rain and I guess, other forms of condensation….......Anyone except Rabbit been in the desert at night?

Ramjet the mangy old spawn of satan.  Death Bringer himself….....................Genocidal Failed Fool of a Pentagon Stool…....................................LOathesome, vile man,  all that can be said about your small box of tricks is that it has all been presented by you before in this thread. You have given the same six references sixty times, now sink back into the pit and await another victim…..............gnash gnash…....failed again….....................The Dragon is getting desperately hungry, but it must stay here in the pit…..........................Cursed to stay forever….......Guarding the stinking pile of Radioactive waste…................

That cursed Rabbit and the terrifying Giant Eadora, the6y always seem to sense its return.  Foiling it’s efforts to catch something to eat….............Angry OLD DRAGON…....................BAD old DRAGon…...............MAD OLD dragon

aaarggg…..................Rooaar….........gnash ....gnash…........................

................................................................................................^^................................................................

Posted by GhostRabbit on Oct 23, 2005 at 6:03 PM

Eadora   It might be hacking attacks or something weird….electrons in a tiz…..........Still here..

Better search is Rabbitvoz, but e-mail is no secret, and this is an old one…...........  sgp1963@hotmail.com

Posted by GhostRabbit on Oct 23, 2005 at 6:14 PM

Probably the IRE of the Dragon has disturbed the balance of the site for a while, others noticed it too, like a cyber earth tremor almost..  it has stopped and all is quiet again..

Posted by GhostRabbit on Oct 23, 2005 at 6:31 PM

Rabbit Yer One Hell Of a Rabbit!

We Stuck another one up the Ramjet’s Pipe!

Yabbidy Gobitus Yadimos!

Give me time.
I got fires in Living Room!

Gotta go fer a bit.

Posted by Eadora on Oct 23, 2005 at 7:11 PM

Rabbit will be hopping about on site for another seven hours or so. It is still morning, sun is shining and Rabbit is Cooking Boats.  First one is due out of the oven soon. 

Put in the boat mix, like cake mix only prettier and no eggs or milk…...............turn on the boat machine…........ cook another boat…................hee hee…..........Rabbit does it and people pay him for the boats.

Posted by GhostRabbit on Oct 23, 2005 at 7:29 PM

RAMJET are you a looney tune
du is the uranium waste from nuclear reactors
would you want some in your back yard ?

Posted by skullker on Oct 23, 2005 at 10:15 PM

he has already not answered that one…........

Posted by GhostRabbit on Oct 23, 2005 at 10:21 PM

Ramjet is lying about nobody knowing how much DU is used.  He wants us to believe that the military does not keep records.

.............D*ckhead….....

The military’s own figures are closer to 3500 tons thinks Rabbit.  They have published the amounts.

It is also in the above thread and well covered.

Posted by GhostRabbit on Oct 23, 2005 at 10:23 PM

lets they fired 100 tons at Basra its probably more weight then that, as the figures i’ve seen so far state 2200+ tons total on Iraq.
for arguments sake Lets 300 tons on Basra
would you want that much scattered about your hometown
this is the stuff they bury in out of the way places yuka MT.
type places
its so toxic and still quite radioactive
if we dumped lets say 100 lbs of it around your house
so your children can play in it
how would you like that
straiten up and fly right !

Posted by skullker on Oct 23, 2005 at 10:25 PM

America is practicing illegal nuclear waste dumping
and exposing the poor civilians to all it’s ravages
No one I know would back the use of this weapon on a defensless third world country
it is a war crime against humanity
Only a nazi would back the use of these weapons on cities
only a Nazi would back torture of prisoners
only Nazis !

Posted by skullker on Oct 23, 2005 at 10:37 PM

It is gross isn’t it?  The thead shows that the reaction has been invariably one of mounting disgust until people just blow their stacks with the whole revolting sham. Ramjet has been here from the start, with a bit of help, which evaporated slowly or quickly, but Ramjet, hero of the Reich is holding the ground yet.

Talk about Custers Last Stand.

Roger’s last stand is this thread. He has been ordered to stick with it and the only way he is getting out is to convince someone to take his place. 

Like Atlas, a kind of Anti-Atlas….............That is the Dodgy Rodgy Ramjet

Posted by GhostRabbit on Oct 24, 2005 at 12:13 AM

I figure Colonel Helbig has ducked below the radar again.

He disappeared for 18 days before.
This thread was pretty well inactive till the skullker happend on board.

The DOD cockroach probably thought we had moved on and he could come back out onto the kitchen table.

Well the lights go on, the alarms blare out, and Squasho!

I don’t think he expected that.

Posted by Eadora on Oct 24, 2005 at 11:04 AM

The scum got what he deserved,defending such a terrible substance and policy!I hope he stays under that five sided rock this time.

Posted by Kaw Valley Kid on Oct 24, 2005 at 1:17 PM

Hi Kaw Valley Kid

Good to see you still around.

Has Eadora seen the Natalie has branched out into 911 on the God Squad thread, oh and by the way, Eadora, are you a bloke?  ....Rabbit asks, nose twitching, looking up with small shiny eyes.

Posted by GhostRabbit on Oct 24, 2005 at 6:02 PM

Here comes more reenforcements ... Kaw Valley Kid ...  proverbial six guns blazing. It is a rally around the flag of truth.

Look out Dodgy Rodgy. Looks like we done ambushed you.

The Lights are on. Run and Hide.

Posted by David in Canada on Oct 24, 2005 at 8:12 PM

Answer:  Yes.  and a mean old narlely one that stll spends time in the hills,

This thread has been a good alliance has it not.
If the DU Zombies try to return within the next few decades we’ll have the traps set out.

Got to go for now.  Probably see you on that other thread in a while. Take care and keep your STOMPIN boots on!

Posted by Eadora on Oct 24, 2005 at 8:52 PM

Yuk .....to think Rabbit licked those toes…..............

Not an Amazon a Mountain man then?

Rabbit likes the bush and is more at home there any time. 

Cheers, Eadora of the mountains…...........

Rabbit sees the Monk….....................................^^............................................

By the way, the Ramjet practises his deception elsewheres, Rabbit has seen him about the place, just observed him at this stage, all predictable of course, nothing new, he even does the same order of dancing, and the sit and wait spider act.

Posted by GhostRabbit on Oct 24, 2005 at 9:55 PM

Dear readers,
    Please note that the following letter was refused publication by the editors of In These Times. Because of that refusal, I have demanded that they remove my name from their masthead as a contributing editor. As a contributor to ITT since its founding in 1978, it pains me to have to do that, but such shabby treatment of a writer cannot be tolerated:

To the editors:
        I have to take issue with the note that ran on the letters page of the October 24 hard-copy issue of In These Times, apologizing for an

Posted by dlindorff on Oct 25, 2005 at 1:49 PM

Kudos To You David Lindorff

Your post :  Posted by dlindorff on October 25, 2005 at 3:49 PM
Is a keeper.  It goes in my DU file,

I remember a valuable very posting of yours from early on, on this thread.
I

Posted by Eadora on Oct 25, 2005 at 3:08 PM

I guess that is what happens when you rely on an unreliable source.  I am surprised that Llindorf has not yet caught on that Rokke lives in a fantasy world cheered on by the DU activists who idolize him.  Unfortunately, the real world has no DU M-16 bullets ..they would be quite useless as any infantryman could tell them .. they have little stopping power, just aren’t big enough to even stop terrorists let alone a tank!

Posted by Ramjet on Oct 25, 2005 at 9:53 PM

What the Hell is going on?

Tell me this is not the thin end of the wedge, ?

Rabbit said they were DESPERATE to keep the lid on this one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ramjet, you and your masters have just gained yourselves a determined enemy.

Rabbit declares you, the ENEMY…................................................^^............................................

Posted by GhostRabbit on Oct 25, 2005 at 10:28 PM

Write friends, write everybody who gets to this point, this is the time to stand up.  Write to the editors of this site, for a grave deceit has been perpetrated, as any who have read this thread can see, the PENTAGON has struck, with LIES Threats and lies.

THERE HAVE BEEN AT LEAST 2500, CLOSER TO 3500 TONS OF DU RELEASED IN IRAQ,  SEE THE ABOVE THREAD FOR LOTS of sources and reports.

ITT has had it’s judgement hijacked, but have faith friends, they have shown themslevs to be cautious, but honest before, so hopefully TRUTH will prevail again, or we shall rally at Rabbit’s e-mail,, given earlier and strike back with the weight of light before us.

Posted by GhostRabbit on Oct 25, 2005 at 10:40 PM

ITT : why oh why ?

Censoring makes us cry.

When the Pentagon came out ot play,

ITT ran away ?

Posted by David in Canada on Oct 25, 2005 at 10:42 PM

THANKS to the FREEPER detectors out there: Ghostrabbit, Eadora, Wwoods, Liz, et al.

He (sake of argument) cannot get around you!!

WhoooHooo.

I just want to add one little bit.  All this BS Ramjet (and his other incarnations) gives about explosives v. projectiles, etc., is so much dog and pony show.  DU will spontaneously ignite on impact, putting out FUMES and GAS that sink deep into the lungs.  You measure its half-life in millions of years.
Whoever said it is right:  it’s just another ruse, a way to get rid of nuclear waste.  It is DENSE stuff, able to penetrate tanks.

What else do you need to know?
Hey!

Posted by lbyland on Oct 25, 2005 at 11:56 PM

Strike and strike…..................wack ..............wack…............Cut and jab the dragon….......................slice it’s eyes…..........do you get it Ramjet, you stinker?  Everybody is awake up to you and your lies and now you have awoken the people.  Rabbit warned you, ......dirty Cockroach.. ..........The people will see you and then you are for it, darkness is your only defense…...............................the light is on…....................Wack him and tell the Pentagon what People are NOT,/b> prepared to have done in their names.  fight this stuff people, or you willl be complicit in the <b>CRIME. ...............................It is a CRIME Roger, or why did the Pentagon need to seek an exemption from international law as detailed above?

Posted by GhostRabbit on Oct 26, 2005 at 12:03 AM

Will the jack-booted goons be busting down my door tonight?

Or tomorrow?

Posted by David in Canada on Oct 26, 2005 at 12:39 AM

Gather evidence of the true amounts of DU released, and it’s forms, and write to ITT, demanding they reverse their position, if the evidence is there.

Post it here.

Rabbit will have to go back and re-post a lot of things which have already been said on the thread, but we have work to do, ..................weary Rabbit, wants no more of this horrible thread, but we must press on, brothers and sisters.

Posted by GhostRabbit on Oct 26, 2005 at 1:25 AM

To the group:

This is a horrible thread and this has been painful to read through.

If Natalie and Ramjet like DU so much, I hope some DU finds its way into their hot little hands.

In These Times—shame on you.  This discussion got out of hand because you allowed trolls to run amok. Rabbit and Eadora and others have cited the truth and Ramjet and Natalie have cited lies produced in order to provide a veil of secrecy over the issue of DU.

Depleted Uranium is a highly dangerous and criminally misunderstood element of modern warfare.  The track record of nations who willingly and openly acknowledge creating hazards is very poor, to say the least.

What I see here is an attempt by people to illustrate just how dangerous DU really is.  People are not getting sick and dying by accident.  The overwhelming number of articles cited here by Rabbit and others is staggering.  And yet all Ramjet and Natalie offer are pithy arguments that try to knock down rock solid arguments.

I posted here a while back, thinking this topic was closed.  The desperation of Ramjet and Natalie to counter the efforts of people to expose the danger of DU—and the above resignation of Mr. Lindorff—indicate that In These Times has no one moderating these comment pages.

A campaign of willful misrepresentation has been allowed to continue here, and it is a shameful, disgraceful and ultimately un-American example of cowardice and fear-mongering that is being perpetrated by traitors and fools like Ramjet and Natalie. In These Times has ceased to be an advocate for anything other than it’s own meager existence.

Print THAT in your magazine.

Pale Rider

Posted by Pale Rider on Oct 26, 2005 at 9:48 AM

The following is an email that ITT Associate Editor Brian Cook sent to Dave Lindorff that explains why ITT apologized for his unverifiable assertion that 3000 tons of DU have been used in Iraq. Dave Lindorff has still not provided any verifiable proof that DU has been expanded into bunker-busting bombs, which is the point at issue here:

  The question, though, is what can actually be verified. No one here doubts that the Pentagon lies, continuously, through their gnarled teeth and soulless fucking eyes. But the question here is whether they’ve lied in this particular instance and the burden of proof lies on you (the reporter) and us (the magazine) to demonstrate that they have. You still have not provided any proof, outside of a single source, who, without citing anything in particular, says it was “probably” 2000 tons. We don’t print “probabilities” as verifiable fact and if we do, we apologize for giving that impression, with or without the writer’s consent.

    Furthermore, your attacks on Cohen-Joppa are getting tiresome. If you’d actually read his essay that I sent you, you’d know that he doesn’t believe whatever the Pentagon tells him and explicitly states that we should be skeptical of what they do tell us. (This was edited out of his printed letter for spatial reasons….perhaps we should have kept it in, but that’s a different argument.) But he also makes the perfectly reasonable point that barring any other verifiable facts that can rebut their claims, we can only use their figures to infer how much DU has actually been used. Unlike you, I’m not willing to take Rokke’s word uncritically, unless he provides specific information backing up his claims. Neither his rank, his promotion, nor his appointment letter to head the DU program afford him any SPECIFIC knowledge about how much DU has been used in Iraq from March 2003 to the present.

    The fact is, we don’t know how much DU has been used in Iraq. The Pentagon won’t tell us, and we can certainly hammer them for this. It could be as high as 3000, or it could be much higher or much lower. We don’t fucking know. But your original article did not allow for any of this uncertainty. It stated, as fact, that “more than 3000 tons [of DU have been] used in Iraq.” That this was stated as an established fact was an error, on your part, and on ours, and that is why we apologized for it.

Posted by Brian Cook on Oct 26, 2005 at 2:16 PM

Friends

Short on time!  But I have to take a swing at these AZZ holes.

Ramjet SAYS and Quote:

Posted by Eadora on Oct 26, 2005 at 2:35 PM

Brian

Rabbit reads your words, and they are reasonable and the situation is understood.

Rokke is not the only source of information about the amounts of DU, the Pentagon’s own figures, have been around beofre, Rabbit will search them out, hopefully.  Recalls something of a Navy Admiral who had to report on it, or something.  It will be forthcoming.

In the meantime, since you are aware of the nature of the beast, how about someone looks at this thread, there is an enormous amount of information, some of which is bound to lead to the truth on the best known figures.

ITT, it is understood that the Beastmen can be threatening and agressive, we all are taking risks standing up to them, truth is important to be verified, and the exact deatil of how much DU is important.  None of the details the Shills or their masters are pressing change the facts about the harfulness of the stuff as it is stated in this thread.

Nothing changes the increasing ilness of exposed veterans, and nothing can hide the background radiation levels in Iraq today.   

These are established facts, and Pentagon lies, change nothing, except to make them even more culpable.

                                        WAR CRIMES

B

Posted by GhostRabbit on Oct 26, 2005 at 5:20 PM

Yoh Mon Ami

Posted by Eadora on Oct 26, 2005 at 6:25 PM

OK Cool down.

But, In an end analysis 3000 tons is more believable than 200

If you are not told the truth you have to estimate it given the best data & info available.

One Bunk.Bust. can weight 2 to 7 tons.
Not to mention innumerable other DU ordinance.

Did you or did you not see “Shock & Awe”!
How many Iraqi tanks destroyed?
Nobody counts!  I wonder WHY!

To Brian!  A I will offer an apology! 
I’m runnin hot on this one, and I have other irons in other fires.

To fast off the take

Posted by Eadora on Oct 26, 2005 at 7:01 PM

Yoh!  Col. Helbig

Why don’t you “Ramjet” some of those M-16 DU flechettes you told us don’t exist!

Like where the sun don’t shine, lowlife!

Posted by Eadora on Oct 26, 2005 at 7:06 PM

[url=“http://tinyurl.com/bazy9”]Depleted Uranium: Questions and Answers on Its Use in War
by H. Patricia Hynes and Sardor Ibragimov
[/url]

4. What happens when DU weapons strike a target?

In 1991, the Allies fired 944,000 DU rounds or some 2700 tons of DU tipped bombs. A UK Atomic Energy Authority report said that some 500,000 people would die before the end of this century, due to radioactive debris left in the desert.

>

Posted by GhostRabbit on Oct 26, 2005 at 7:17 PM

A little more data towards a more educated guess!
REMAINS OF TOXIC BULLETS LITTER IRAQ
The Monitor finds high levels of radiation left by US armor-piercing shells
By Scott Peterson, Christian Science Monitor, May 15, 2003

“The Monitor visited four sites in the city - including two randomly chosen destroyed Iraqi armored vehicles, a clutch of burned American ammunition trucks, and the downtown planning ministry - and found significant levels of radioactive contamination from the US battle for Baghdad.
In the first partial Pentagon disclosure of the amount of DU used in Iraq, a US Central Command spokesman told the Monitor that A-10 Warthog aircraft - the same planes that shot at the Iraqi planning ministry - fired 300,000 bullets. The normal combat mix for these 30-mm rounds is five DU bullets to 1 - a mix that would have left about 75 tons of DU in Iraq.

Posted by Eadora on Oct 26, 2005 at 7:41 PM

The problem is that several of those who are best known in activists circles, such people as Doug Rokke and Leuren Moret, spread false information about depleted uranium. For example, Doug Rokke, in various Internet interviews, has claimed that 30 co-workers died with the implication being that they died of depleted uranium. The military investigated that claim and found that only one had died and he had not worked with depleted uranium.  There is no doubt that Rokke made the claim as it is on many internet interviews. But Rokke refuses to provide any supporting evidence.  He could perhaps refute the military claim that none of his co-workers died but when asked directly about this, Rokke does not answer.

Now about Leuren Moret.  She has often made the claim on the Internet that 67 percent of the children of a National Guard Unit from Mississippi had birth defects with the claim being that this was from depleted uranium in the first Gulf War. However, the Centers for Disease Control did a thorough scientific investigation of that National Guard unit back in about 1996 and found that the rate of birth defects was not above normal.  Leuren Moret is still making that claim up to the present time even though she has been told directly that her claim has been refuted. When asked about this in email, she refuses to reply. 

Leuren Moret claims to be a scientist but she has no background in the field of nuclear science and it is questionable that she is a scientist in any other field.

Posted by radchemist on Oct 26, 2005 at 7:43 PM

The above got a bit mixed up. The following is separate from the quoted piece which is from the first reference.

<i>US forces

Posted by GhostRabbit on Oct 26, 2005 at 7:45 PM

Thank You Rabbit!

How good are these guys at MATH do you suppose, Rab. ??

ADD IT UP FOOLS!

200 !!!  you have to be stupid to suppose or even suggest that!

Its like trying to hide an elephant dung under a mouse turd!
Really a stupid thing to try and do!

Typical retard, military, dysfunctional, disinformation.

They should have given us a 1500 or 2000 ton estimate.
That might be cause for some confusion.

Posted by Eadora on Oct 26, 2005 at 7:58 PM

Rabbit apologises for posting the above link, i…..................t is the most disturbing set of pictures Rabbit has seen…..................... for a long time…...............maybe ever.

The most terribly distressing thing and this must be said, and you all of you have to think about the following Rabbit words.

These are only what came of the first Gulf War, to my understanding, shocking as these are, they are only the tip of the iceberg.  This is the work of Ramjet and his MASTERS OF WAR. 

He is doing it in the name of America and your Freedoms.

New scientist, apr2003

But while the chemical toxicity of DU is reasonably well established, Mothersill points out that the radiological effects of DU are less clear. To gauge the risk from low-dose radiation, researchers extrapolate from tests using higher doses. But the relationship between dose and effect is not linear: at low doses radiation kills relatively fewer cells. And though that sounds like good news, it could mean that low radiation is having subtle effects that go unnoticed because cells are not dying, says Mothersill.

More crucially, she has recently found that DU radiation increases gene activity in cultured cells at doses of DU not known to cause chemical toxicity (Molecular and Cellular Biochemistry, in press). The possible consequences are made all the more uncertain because no one knows if genes switched on by DU radiation enhance the damage caused by genes switched on by DU’s toxic effects, or vice versa. “I think that we assumed that we knew everything that we needed to know about uranium,” says Miller. “This is something we have to consider now when we think about risk estimates.”

Posted by GhostRabbit on Oct 26, 2005 at 8:00 PM

Who the hell kind of a new SUPER SHILL do we have here?  Rad Chemist, you are coming in here with a highly loaded title like that and promptly launch into a personal attack on a single person after the Enormous amount of evidence already postyed on this thread, and most of it has NOTHING to do with ROKKE you SHILL.

Posted by GhostRabbit on Oct 26, 2005 at 8:08 PM

radchemist  IS SO OBVIOUSLY NEXT IN LINE FOR THE SHILL ROLL.

You are a stinking character assasin, and Rabbit nor others here have need of Moret’s work or Rokke’s to kick you back into your pit.  If you are a false Shill as expected you will soon give your self away by failing to deal in facts and preferring instead to smoke and mirror your way forward, attack the man, ignore the ball. We’re so used to toads like you we could just play without you you know.

Come on Rad Chemist tell us how the other FACTS and opinions we have expressed stack up against a “REAL” scientist, as you are sure to claim any moment.

Posted by GhostRabbit on Oct 26, 2005 at 8:14 PM

YOH!  radchemist

Parachutist Extraordinaire!

Review the thread.  You are on old news Bros.
Do your homework, review the thread, or go back to kindergarten.

The subject of Rokke & Leuren are old news on this thread.
It has been dealt with thoroughly!
If you have something to add, add it. 
What you are chucking in now, is OLD NEWS.

We are on LIES regarding DU ordinance and it

Posted by Eadora on Oct 26, 2005 at 8:16 PM

sig heil Ramjet
reich master sgt COL uranium user

Congress made of stooges
president is a madman
And NEO~CON~artists play with my world like it’s their little toy
NAzIS NEO CON
nasty bussines

Posted by skullker on Oct 26, 2005 at 8:29 PM

Make sure you know what we are saying, start building strawmen, and we’ll all gang up on you, finding you so offensive we’ll just have to complain to have you pulled from the site, just like Roger did to Rabbit once

You had best check out all our references and see just how much you will have to deal with once you step outside of your script which just says, dump on Rokke and Moret.

Rabbit had never even heard of either of these people before this thread, having lived for in excess of forty years and been around a bit, he needed nobody to tell him the facts as they are know about DU.  Rabbit knows more than he needs to about the Gulf war, and has known about the dangers of using DU since 1990, when he first heard about it being used as weapons.  Stunned into disbelief, when first told it was being used as such, and not merely a nightmare weapon from hell.  Just when it felt the world was getting ready for a bit of peace on the macro scale, they start using this stuff, no thought Rabbit, surely not after all this time, to go back to such ideas.  But yes, it has been. Rabbit has watched in wide eyed horror as the Masters of war have used it regardless, and as if that is not enough, they are asserting a HUGE propaganda effort to hide the fact of its use, to attempt to avoid prosecution for it’s use as detailed in earlier Rabbit post, and to alter and hide scientific reports and generally muddy the waters even if they cannot actually make a case for it.

Look at those pictures above.  ANY dirty SHILL who wants to come around here, you are arguing in favour of the stuff which caused those things, and nothing you can say will alter the fact that WE will know that.  Imagine if you can the loathing we each feel in our hearts for you, let the idea enter your world, understand that all this energy is coming back at you from us and it will cost your Karma Baby it will cost it bad.

Because nothing you can say, will change the fact that we are arguing for a good and noble cause, and YOU are standing up for an ignominious WAR CRIME and something which will, eventually enter the worlds consciousness as the most repulsive act of reptillian cowardice and evil perpetrated in our otherwise less than inspiring history.

Like Judas of old
You lie and deceive
A world war can be won
You want me to believe
But I see through your eyes
And I see through your brain
Like I see through the water
That runs down my drain
                              Bob Dylan        
MASTERS of WAR

Posted by GhostRabbit on Oct 26, 2005 at 8:34 PM

HIGH CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY

Nurember 2007 U.S.A.

Ecessive Use Of Force
Use Of Torture Agaisnt prisoners
Use of Uranium Ammo 2500 + Tons +
Congress implicated Was mute and blind to the Administration
presidency is looked at, and reiculed by the world as jokes
November is time to vote get rid of the bums

impeachment eminent
The People are the power not the President
Impeach call your congressman .GET INVOLVED

Posted by skullker on Oct 26, 2005 at 8:41 PM

“A hard RAIN is gona fall”

Posted by skullker on Oct 26, 2005 at 8:47 PM

When NUREMGURG USA comes
all new congressmen hopefully will be in Place with a clear mandate.

“A HARD RAIN IS GONA FALL” B.Dylan

BUSH CHENEY AND the cabel will be fried
The reidicule the rest of the world feels for USA right now is astounding
WAKEUP

Posted by skullker on Oct 26, 2005 at 8:51 PM

I suspect this thread will go on untill The war crimes are answered for
and all of its perponents are rounded up

A unique record of who backs the Nazification of USA
who controls the isp controls ?

Posted by skullker on Oct 26, 2005 at 9:05 PM

Did Rabbit not warn you Shills, you were always biting off more than you could swallow.  All you have done is awaken an issue which was, due to public apathy and media complicity not one.

More and more are rallying here to the cause you created by just having to go the next step, Try and tell people DU is sexy.  Rabbit said when it was just Roger and he, get lost, wack job, keep it up and you’ll get more attention than you bargained for.  How many backers have you had who have not been assigned to you SHILL?

Posted by GhostRabbit on Oct 26, 2005 at 9:22 PM

The Fire This Time

“US tanks fired 5000 rounds, US aircraft many tens of thousands of rounds, and UK tanks a small number of DU rounds. The tank ammunition alone will amount to greater then 50,000 lbs. of DU. [...] If the tank inventory of the DU was inhaled, the latest International Committee of Radiological Protection risk factor calculates 500,000 potential deaths. The DU will spread around the battlefield and target vehicles in various sizes and quantities. [....] It would be unwise for people to stay close to large quantities of DU for long periods and this would obviously be of concern to the local population if they collect this heavy metal and keep it.”

This report (Volume 2) summarises data [...] in a way that allows a contrasting of the differences in health risk between Depleted Uranium (DU) and Tungsten (W) as kinetic energy penetrators. [...] Whilst much more is known about the health effects of uranium than of tungsten alloys, the comparable information on chemical toxicity indicates that insoluable DU is approximately 25 times more toxic than insoluable tungsten, and soluable DU is 20 times more toxic than soluable tungsten when exposure is at the limits allowed by the regulations. [...] Radiation effects are unique to DU. Therefore, this represents a risk which does not apply to tungsten.”

Posted by GhostRabbit on Oct 26, 2005 at 9:34 PM

Again the above is only referring to <i>particles<> and we have established that The Ceramic Oxids Vapours are of far greater concern.

Posted by GhostRabbit on Oct 26, 2005 at 9:40 PM

From a list where actual experts, Certified Health Physicists with doctorates in Physics, not in Education of high school kids like Rokke ..one of them comments in response to an anti-DU gadfly who pretends to sound scientfic

“Epidemiological studies require precise application of scientific methods,
not random imaginary association of random observations. We are now being
plagued by unscientific data misuse where the purpose is to “prove” some
preconceived association following the fallacious method called “Affirming
the Consequence”. Many books have been published in recent years by
activists that misuse data to promote their favorite imaginary radiation
effect. Most scientists do not want to assist in the advancement of
misinformation. Why encourage the misuse of data?

The fact the depleted uranium is only slightly radioactive and relatively
non-toxic does not seem to have any impact on Mr. S or the other
anti-DU crowd. The over 50 years of scientific studies of the toxicity of
uranium and the recent studies by the Department of Defense are never
referenced by the anti-DU fanatics. I wish that they would put their energy
into causes that would be societally beneficial such as campaigning against
cigarette smoking (100,000 deaths per year) or the development of clean
nuclear power to provide energy independence for out nation (we already
have all the nuclear fuel we need).”

PS .. when are Rabbit, Skulker, Eadora, etc. going to learn that zero raised to the infinite power is still zero .. so too with their infinite innane postings in which they blather on like out on the grade school playground—it is the substance of the post that matters, not the number of times that it is repeated on this forum .. someday, if I have the time, I may summarize the number of replies by each of this cast of characters.  Those of you who are in this to learn I am sure are equally not amused by the volume of the shouting, but rather by the value of the comments.

Posted by Ramjet on Oct 27, 2005 at 12:57 AM

Too late Ramjet, your cause was lost a long time ago, witness this thread, anybody who reads anything
this Ramjet con artist spouts is adviced to reteurn to the start of the trhead and read it to see evrything these scumbag is and has said. EVRYTHING which has been presnted in refutation to this psychopath, see why everybody calls him a cockroach without hesitation, everybody see’s the dirty COLONEL HELBIG lying SHILL

Roger’s Baby Photos

You can’t change the truth and it is all here in black and white.  Nothing nothing does the filthgy Shill answer, lies, lies and more lies it spouts.  Coward hides under a rock, after every slap-down, and evrytime it sees an opening up it slithers, LIES LIES and more LIES.

All it’s lies are here, it has nothing new to say, it convinced nobody, go and look at the pictures of deforemed babies who are due to your LIES dirty SHILL for the Masters of War.  Look at those pictures, click the link if your government issued computer is even able to access the site, we know lots of servers don’t allow free access to “unpleasant truths”.  Look at those pictures, they are your doing, the collective community of this site, minus the trolls even who dare not show even their faces around this one, call you resposible with your beloved death bringer.  How about answering the ONE question Eadora has asked you since the first few posts, and which you have never responded, Lying SHILL.

You probably already have such pictures haven’t you, you look at them everynight when you do that thing you do alone, with no witnesses.  All dragons have their horrible secrets and yours must by association be truly atrocious.

Posted by GhostRabbit on Oct 27, 2005 at 1:56 AM

The following is Ramjet’s own words and it explains exactly why he has so far established a sum total of zero, in a couple of months of desperate trying.

it is the substance of the post that matters, not the number of times that it is repeated on this forum.

That is the only true thing Ramjet has said for a while.

Go back and see the substance which has been put up by everyone except this professional liar.

Substance does not equal a few biased sources and official propaganda.  Every important fact Roger has claimed has been shown to be of no consequence to the discussion or false.

Posted by GhostRabbit on Oct 27, 2005 at 2:03 AM

<i>The fact the depleted uranium is only slightly radioactive and relatively non-toxic does not seem to have any impact on Mr. S or the other anti-DU crowd. The over 50 years of scientific studies of the toxicity of uranium and the recent studies by the Department of Defense are never
referenced by the anti-DU fanatics. I wish that they would put their energy into causes that would be societally beneficial such as campaigning against cigarette smoking (100,000 deaths per year) or the development of clean nuclear power to provide energy independence for out nation (we already have all the nuclear fuel we need).

Posted by Pale Rider on Oct 27, 2005 at 5:17 AM

Published on Friday, March 24, 2000 in the Philadelphia Inquirer
‘Plowshares Vs Depleted Uranium’ Activists Face Harsh Jail Sentences
by David O’Reilly
 
TOWSON, Md. - The judge in the tumultuous trial of four Roman Catholic peace activists charged with vandalizing two A-10 Warthog bombers at a nearby military base stunned the courtroom yesterday by imposing long prison sentences.

The four, who turned their backs on the judge on Wednesday and refused to cooperate with their own defense, chose not to enter the courtroom yesterday after instructing their lawyers to make no closing arguments or sentencing pleas for them. The lawyers, who included Ramsey Clark, a former U.S. attorney general, followed their instructions.

Judge James T. Smith of Baltimore County Circuit Court then sentenced Elizabeth Walz, 33, of Philadelphia, to 15 more months in the county detention center, where she has resided since her arrest Dec. 19.

Minutes before the sentencing, the state prosecutor had told the judge that state sentencing guidelines for the charges against Walz, who has no record, call for probation or one month in jail.

Smith also sentenced Philip Berrigan, 77, of Baltimore, to 30 months in state prison and Susan Crane, 56, also of Baltimore, and the Rev. Steven Kelly, 50, of New York, to 27 months, less the three months already served in jail awaiting trial.

All had been charged with malicious destruction of property and conspiracy for cutting a fence at the Air National Guard Base in Essex, Md., on Dec. 19, and afterward pouring blood, hanging a rosary and a banner, and hammering on two A-10 Warthog bombers.

Crane had also faced an assault charge for allegedly swinging a hammer over head when air-base security guards came to arrest her. The jury was hung on that charge, and it was dropped.

State’s Attorney Mickey Norman, who prosecuted the case, had recommended sentences ranging from three months to one year.

“They were prepared for the worst,” Berrigan’s wife, Elizabeth McCallister, told a crowd of about 40 supporters outside the courthouse afterward, “and they got it.”

Smith, who angrily cleared his courtroom Wednesday when the supporters burst into a spontaneous hymn of protest against his rulings, yesterday justified his long sentences: The $88,622 in estimated damage to the airplanes “takes it out of the normal range of property damage cases.”

He also ordered each of the four - who call themselves “Plowshares vs. Depleted Uranium” and say they live residentially in near poverty - to reimburse the government for the full amount of the damage.

The sentences and reparation amounts can be appealed, but lead attorney John Katz of Silver Spring, Md., said he did not know how they would proceed. The defendants were not available yesterday for comment.

After the verdict and prior to sentencing, Walz sent a note to the judge detailing what she said were many unpleasant aspects of Baltimore County Prison and noting that several other women’s prisons were more accommodating of inmates. For that reason, she said, she asked that she be permitted to stay at the Baltimore County facility “where I might be of some comfort to the women suffering there.”

The judge allowed her request.

The four claim that anti-tank bullets of depleted uranium, which were fired extensively by Warthogs in the 1991 Persian Gulf war and last year in Kosovo, pollute the ground and air with radioactive particulates that can cause birth defects and other serious ailments to civilians and military personnel.

Posted by Pale Rider on Oct 27, 2005 at 5:19 AM

-article continues-

The U.S. Department of Defense maintains that depleted uranium is only slightly radioactive and poses no significant health hazard.

When trial began on Monday, Smith said he would not allow expert testimony on the health hazards of depleted uranium ordnance, and he refused to allow the defendants to argue that their symbolic acts of vandalism - what they call “conversion” - were morally justified because of the hazards of depleted uranium.

Nevertheless, Berrigan and Walz, who represented themselves, and the three defense lawyers tried repeatedly to inject references to depleted uranium, which provoked immediate objections by Norman.

Most of those objections were sustained.

The mounting tension in the courtroom came to a head Wednesday when Smith refused to allow the defense to present witnesses to testify about the hazards of the use of depleted uranium.

Crane then read a statement asserting: “We cannot put on a defense about the dangers of depleted uranium.. . .” The judge ordered her to stop, but she continued reading: “We will not participate in what amounts to a legal gag order.”

Berrigan, Walz, Crane and Father Kelly then turned their backs on the judge. Father Kelly began reading a passage about justice from the Book of Jeremiah.

Then, someone in the audience began singing an old Catholic Worker hymn: “Courage, Sister; Courage, Brother. You do not walk alone. We will walk with you, and sing your spirit home.”

Smith gaveled repeatedly for silence, but when that did not succeed, shouted: “If you cannot control yourselves about how deeply you feel about the system, you must leave this courtroom.”

When the singing continued, the judge sent the jury out temporarily and ordered deputies to clear the room, allowing only the press.

The audience was allowed back in today, but with strict instructions to remain silent at the verdicts and sentencing, which it did.

In his closing remarks yesterday, Norman told the jurors that the defendants had “used you” and later suggested they had been motivated by a desire for publicity, “their day in the sun.”

“It’s a no-brainer,” he continued. “They came to preach.. . .

“If you let your feelings one way or the other interfere with your duty, that makes you as bad as them.”

Some members of the audience groaned.

After the verdict, Berrigan’s wife, McCallister, complained that Norman had engaged in “character rape.”

Wendy Leitner-Sieber, who with her husband shares a Catholic Worker house in Germantown with Walz, said she was saddened but not surprised by the guilty verdicts.

“Our friends acted as they felt morally justified, as witnesses to the gospel of love,” she said. “The verdict stands for itself.”

Posted by Pale Rider on Oct 27, 2005 at 5:19 AM

However, we now know depleted uranium is so dangerous that the states—not the Federal government—are taking steps to protect people:

Depleted Uranium: States Take Action to Protect Their Soldiers and Veterans
Tue, 19 Jul 2005 06:17:50 -0700

By Kevin Zeese
Louisiana passes law giving returning veterans the right to get tested
Louisiana recently passed legislation giving all returning veterans the right to get a best practices health screening test for exposure to depleted uranium. Interviewed here is Bob Smith, one of the activists that helped make this bill possible. He is with the Louisiana Activist Network. He is also I am a member of Veterans for Peace and the Viet Nam Veterans Against the War. Born a Texan and raised in a Navy family with three siblings, moved to Louisiana in 1977 a few years after returning from Viet Nam. He worked with adolescents in a psychiatric hospital where he met his wife, a co-worker, returning to the military and retired eight years ago as a Command Sergeant Major. He became actively involved the day Congress gave the President unconstitutional, power to make war on Iraq and has been active ever since in the peace movement and with the Presbyterian Church.

Zeese: What made you pursue legislation regarding depleted uranium in Louisiana?

Smith: As a twenty year veteran I have been concerned about veterans health since I returned from Viet Nam. From first hand experience I knew the treatment of veterans by our country was highly inadequate after their service. Each year after Gulf War I, more and more veterans were being diagnosed with a mysterious illness, Gulf War Syndrome (GWS) without significant research for cause and effect much like what happened with Agent Orange contamination.

I learned about how the government dealt with Agent Orange contamination during the eighties as an outreach counselor at the VA

Posted by Pale Rider on Oct 27, 2005 at 5:21 AM