Unnatural Disaster

The Army Corps of Engineers official on MSNBC last night actually had the unique insight to call the levees “a success,” because they only broke in one spot.  Nothing changes these guys.

This has been, admittedly, harder to watch than most of our daily abominations.  I’m not quite sure if it’s the abject incompetence, like FEMA just becoming cognizant that refugees were actually in the convention center for 4 days without receiving aid, or that these are the first scenes of footage of poor America I’ve seen on TV since Springer was on primetime, or just watching the unfolding of a series of bad, bad luck (the evacuation bus overturning, that plant exploding, gas prices topping $5.80 in one station, etc.). 

Perhaps that’s it - the series of bad luck.  It’s eerie.  A number of the haplessly uneducated and forlorn victims have been calling this “biblical.” I’m not so faithful; but I do believe that chance favored the prepared mind.  We have known for decades that levees and dams are unnatural and dangerous, and that destroying vegetation on barrier islands to build homes is downright suicidal.  We have known for centuries of the inequality between suburban (and apparently photogenic) White America and the lower colored caste that keeps the system working.  We have known since the days of Henry Ford and George Washington Carver that fossil fuel is a faulty, expensive, inefficient and toxic energy source. 

But foresight hasn’t exactly been a buzzword in this country.  It doesn’t seem to be a part of our national character.  It looking more and more, to quote that Mississippi Delta blues song, if it wasn’t for bad luck, we’d have no luck at all.

But I’m a believer in the healing power of storms.  Short of supernatural wrath, I think this hurricane has unearthed epidemics hidden under the silt of American bullshit for far too long.  As one inspiring victim - who lost his home and everything in it - said today: “This is an opportunity to start again.  We can either fritter away our time or we can do something with this life.” That means you, too, Army Corps of Engineer guy.

It is about time someone draws this line on a regular news blog. 

HAARP - HIGH FREQUENCY ACTIVE ARORAL RESEARCH

HIGH FREQUENCY - 1 GIGA WATT OF MICROWAVE that can be pointed at the ionosphere in a pinpoint location causing it to actually bend outwards towards space.  Causing a LOW PRESSURE SYSTEM in the lower atmosphere.

ACTIVE - OUR LEADERS are actively changing the arora to “record their ability” to effect our weather.

RESEARCH - No.... WARFARE

bottom line… in alaska there is a multi acre grid of telephone poles that have a huge net streched accross.  The net sends microwaves into the ionoshere… the ionoshere bends outward and a low pressure system is created and can be controled through the movement of the microwave pinpoint. 

Remote control HURRICANE

Instill fear in the people and you can control them.

Build a city where poor and non-white are dependant on public transportation… create a disaster in waiting with shoddy levees… evacuate the white rich folks.  point the microwave.  genocide.

Sri Oracle

To All Libertarians, Neo-Cons, and Similarly Minded Selfish People:-

Hurricane KATRINA is a lesson in point why “private initiative” and “faith-based charities” and all that nonsense DO NOT WORK and ARE NOT ADEQUATE… not in anything but the smallest of local emergencies, they’re not!

Bush keeps yabbering on about how people should donate to the Red Cross and Catholic Charities.  THAT’s not going to cover it!!  It will take ages for the donations to be processed, for a start!  Meanwhile, people are still starving, thirsting, dying without medicine and waiting to be rescued from the tops of homes in many areas.

FEDERAL AID.  FEDERAL AID.  FEDERAL AID AND FAST, is the only way in which the bleeding wound in the US left behind by Katrina can be staunched!  And as for the rebuilding… yup.  That’s going to take a LOT MORE FEDERAL AID!

They can’t just write off a whole city in the US as if it were Babylon or Atlantis, so won’t that just annoy the conservative types who want to “starve the beast”??  Of federal funding.

Anyway.  Large natural disasters are a precise illustration of WHY “private” this and that, “compassionate conservatism”, and sheer greedy individualism DO NOT WORK and ARE NOT ADEQUATE TO MEET SOCIETY’S NEEDS.

This applies to DISASTER PREVENTION equally as well, if not more.  New Orleans needed levees that would stand up to a Category 5 hurricane, and more.  Studies for years proved this.  The local politicians and the federal ones couldn’t be bothered to invest; so the city only had Level 3 ones, which broke open.  What should the scientists do now - scream “Told you so”?  They are.  WHEN are the politicians going to listen?

One “good thing” about this disaster is that America’s poor are finally coming to light in the corporate media… and so is the skin colour of most of those people.  About time.

Hugo Chavez the Venezuelan socialist would have done much better than the American authorities if HE were governor of Louisiana!

SOCIALISM rules OK - it’s not rocket science!!

The above two posts by rocco and sri oracle are pretty good!  I wonder what will happen when the Bushie and other con-nuts find this article and board?

But, you know, sri: I know a bit about HAARP and am VERY unhappy about it!  But - seriously - unlike the Twin Towers thing… *would* the US spooks REALLY want to cause a hurricane in New Orleans and the lower reaches of the Mississippi?  Floods always cost MILLIONS if not BILLIONS to clean up after - they had this problem writ a bit smaller when the Mississippi flooded in its higher reaches in the 90s.  Heaps of compensation had to be paid to farmers and so on.

And with New ORLEANS… you get the problem that most of the oil industry is down there!  If they can’t put it right again soon, then it could turn into a 1973 situation, with queues at petrol stations nationwide… and bring down the Bush government.  Discredit the entire political establishment in fact.  Does he/they REALLY want that??

(Say yes - then we who watch worldwide will see the entertaining spectacle of the bastard’s recall!)

Oh, and at LEAST it hit the south.  Alabama and Mississippi as well as Louisiana!  THAT will teach them to vote for Bush!!  Or, for that matter, to trust in God.

*would* the US spooks REALLY want to cause a hurricane in New Orleans and the lower reaches of the Mississippi?

-Liz

Yes.  Call it Nazi.  Call it bilderberg.  Call it skull and bones.  Call it satan.  Call it what you will. 

It is about power. 

It is about creating dependency upon a heirarchy.

“FEDERAL AID.  FEDERAL AID.  FEDERAL AID AND FAST, is the only way in which the bleeding wound in the US left behind by Katrina can be staunched!” - rocco

That is exactly what they want you to think.

They engineered the problem.

Now you fear.

Now you’re controlled.

THE TRUTH…

Exodus - Movement of Jah people.

Get to high ground.  Farm.  Don’t rely on big brother… his power grid.  his power structure. 

I’ve walked across Manhattan all the way to paterson, NJ in a day. 

My brothers in NO need to remember the Dirty Dozen Brass Band “My feet can’t fail me now”

The system is breaking down.  You’re watching it happen.

Rabbit too is waiting for them to turn up, come and get it you mangy muts. Come and tell us how it is all our fault for not supporting POTUS, who really is doing a great job, but its hard with all them there black looters runnin about shootin at brave people tryin ter help em.

Luckily Rabbit doesn’t have to worry about being called unpatriotic, so he should be safe from that most grievous attack they could otherwise launch,

In anticipation of the apologists for the biggest ongoing clusterfuck in modern history, the Government of the USA, let Rabbit offer the following as a sort of welcome mat. Wipe your feet and come in side babies. Rabbit has something to say to you.

My Opinion.
by Rabbit

Some Americans are the biggest wack jobs this Australian has ever seen.

You are arguing about whether or not to re-build New Orleans while the place is still in the throes of catastrophe and the worst administration in history is screwing the thing up so badly that the death toll which could clearly have been limited to a few hundred with real leadership, is probably going to go beyond ten thousand. Most of those people are yet to die, but your country has become so enfeebled by an overun of blind panic stricken, cringing, hubris that it is going to stand by wringing its hands in dismay, repeating hollow patriotic slogans while they die. I predict that very soon the military is going to start shooting, massacres will occur, they will probably be able to rush four times as many helicopter gunships to the area for the purpose and they’ll get a budget of a few billion to carry out the necessary “work”. Hell they’ll probably be able to get the lot in place and ready to start shooting within four hours or less. Just watch them, which of course you will. Then of course you’ll be explaining to each other why it was a reasonable response since those evil looters were just out of control.

So far most of the looting I’ve seen has involved people getting Nappies, canned foods, sanitary items. They look like people trying to survive to me. They are your own countrymen and your country seems to be abandoning them, label them looters and terrorists, then shoot the lot of them. Go ahead and proove me wrong, please!

You lack any credible leadership. What you have is a pack of confirmed thugs and psychopaths devotedly looting your once great nation. They are breaking the back of your military in a war of conquest for their oil and zionist handlers. They rob from the budget of your emergency services and cutback on planned adequate preparations against such a disaster, all documented. They have sent a large portion of your civil defense, your national guard off to fight this war where they are poisoning the same forces with Nuclear Waste, (not to mention innocent Iraqi’s who might once have at least felt pity for the Americans suffering) and trying to sell the idea as Sexy. When in truth it is a war crime of the first magnitude.

Where are the national guard? Where are the extra helicopters they control? In Baghdad strafing innocent Iraqis in case you haven’t being paying attention. By the way don’t be too surprised if the world doesn’t have too much sympathy to offer this time around, this is largely seen as self inflicted, even if by mismanagement. Our sympathy is also kind of distracted by the carnage your troops are wreaking upon the Iraqis every day. There is only so much sympathy to go around sometimes. Oh expect our leaders to make sympathetic noises, they have to don’t they. But the hearts of the people will not be in it. Sorry mates, but the last five years have seen a lot of water under the bridge and we just don’t see you the same as we used to. So sad for the victims as usual are the most innocent.

Are you in, my little munchkins?

One of your number is already doing his patriotic duty. The following is by a poster on this site on another thread. He is one of you, he has clearly said everything you are all about to say, and as you will see he knows what to do in the situation.

“
As far as the New Orleans situation — I should be spending less time on the computer and more at the TV. This is the worst possible handling of a natural catastrophe I have ever seen.

These poor people are in a survival mode. Like a wounded animal they will even attack someone who is trying to help. This is totally understandable — we are all just a few meals short of this same response.

After listening to the Mayor of New Orleans this morning I hate to think of what will happen if the terrorists hit us with a dirty bomb. We have no training. No evacuation plans. No defense.

Posted by whattheheck on September 2, 2005 at 8:56 AM

So far the terrorists are busy using your homeland security to throw Dirty Bombs at the Iraqis, and depriving. I don’t think they intend even to use DU when they start the massacres, they’ll just machine gun them from the air, using helicopters which are being kept in reserve for the purpose, which is why btw, there don’t seem to be too many to go around for rescue operations.

Oh was it not those terrorists you meant?
What others are there?

“What we had in New Orleans is a growing disaster: The hurricane hit, that was one disaster; then the levees broke, that was another disaster; then the floods came; that became a third disaster.”

- George W. Bush

Come on you Bush lovers, where the hell are you now that the PRESIDENT needs your support? The terrorists are attacking! Quick, quick some traitors are at it, slandering the POTUS. Putting the troops in danger, damaging confidence in the economy. Get ya guns out boys they’re everywhere.

My god what’s that, some of the faithful are faultering, they are shocked, suddenly a new thought dawns like a brilliant ray of light. But it is blinding, it hurts, take it away.

But no, you can’t keep the light out, it has already shone light on things you never knew were with you in the darkness, all along. You can never go completely back now. The awakening begins with a jolt. It is over in a flash, the despair begins almost immediately as you recognise this hithertoo safe room is in reality a jungle with many dark and frightening places and things. You know at the same time that you must now keep the light on, you would never want to live in this place with darkness again.

If you are one of the many who will be having a complete paradigm shift at this time, take heart that Rabbit understands, he loves you and always did. No, Rabbit does not understand the process from experience but has helped many others over the moment of realisation before. Rabbit never was silly enough to have bought the bull. Not for thirty years at least.
Its nice no longer to be a minority though.

“You lack any credible leadership.” - Rabbitvoz

Truth.

Let me step in.

1) Eat organic food. 
2) Never stay in bed too long.  Stay up late reading, get up early to feed the family.
3) Read scripture, self help, and anything on the subject of wisdom.  I highly recommend I Ching, Bhagavad Gita, Sun Tzu, and Tao Te Ching.  Keep a library of reference.
4) Store everything in glass jars or earthenware.  (Alchemist)
5) Have tenacious Will with single minded Attention.
7) Act in truth as the instrument of your higher self.
8) Research. 
9) Plant trees.
10) Drink pure water.
11) Low consumption.  No eating out.  Electric bill under $30.  no hot water, etc.
12) Recognize when best to be slave and best to be Master.
13) Look out for the ultimate happiness of others.  Deny children candy, etc.
14) I work as a carpenter with wood and nails.  Right livelihood as the Buddha puts it.
15) Seek only work, never its fruit (Bhagavad Gita)
16) Have the best tools you can get your hands on.  Yet know that you can get the job done without those tools.
17) Avoid all propaganda and marketing.  (No TV, packaging thrown out (recycled) at date of purchase on everything, no radio, avoid “commercial” WebPages with popups and flashing adds, no wandering around the mall, have a disinterest in politics, etc. )
18) Listen to classical music, chants, instrumental, etc.  Avoid music that disturbs the chittam.
19) Meditate.  Pray.  Sit in silence.
20) Spend plenty of time outdoors.
21) Avoid cities.
22) Grow food.
23) Avoid petrochemicals. (use less gas each week, remove things one by one from your home made of plastic, choose not to have coffee if a Styrofoam cup is the only option, etc.)
24) Always consider the metaphysics of your choices.  The mahogany piano is beautiful, but so was the chunk of rainforest it was made from.
25) Be honest
26) Set wheels in motion
27) Be mindful of and act in accordance with your Strengths, Weaknesses, Opportunities, and Threats (SWOT analysis)
28) Love is free giving
29) Anything can be accomplished with time, persistence, and purpose.
30) If you do not know a word, look it up… then get to know it.
31) Deny gifts that you do not need.
32) Accept others faults yet strive for personal perfection.
33) Harm none.
34) Exercise, get your heart rate up, stretch, yoga, etc.
35) Visualize your future. 
36) Set goals and objectives.  Make “To Do” lists.
37) When you have performed magic, let no one know lest they are involved or are an apprentice.
38) Be an anonymous angel

Rabbitvoz there is a difference between the America the world interacts with via “The Political Corporation” and the patriots kept silenced within its borders.

Sri Oracle

Rabbit knows which is why he clear has made it that there are two types of Americans. Right now agonising about the fact that you don’t have anything with steering the ship is not going to help get it under control. My friend it is not going to be enough to save your ship from ploughing headlong into the iceberg, that you just say some of you know how badly its being steered and would do it differently.

The iceberg in this case could more or less be defined as the rest of the planet. Chances are that your ship is so big and running hard before a building storm, it may just sink the iceberg this time. The titanic analogy is intentional. What was the classic lesson of the Titanic again? Mate we are in much worse scenario than a single ship on a calm sea.

Make sure that you don’t just skim Rabbits words. They are carefully chosen, real and hard to misunderstand if taken in context.

Rabbit is an Gnostic of 42 years and a Water Rabbit/Aries.

Rabbit is only anonymous in the dark. In the light any can see who he is.

Cheers

Some clarifications of Rabbitvoz’s remarks for those who are not acronym friendly but reading along:

POTUS - Presidents of the United States

DU - nuclear waste that the US forces use to tip their missles and bullets with for armor piercing capability.  3000 metric tons have been exploded in iraqi cities in this form and will remain there for billions of years causing mutation due to radiation.  There was a news article the day before the storm on “Victoria Claudette” story “Radioactive Wounds of War” look her up on google… Daddy shot Iraqi’s w/ DU guns… comes home has a kid… born w/ 2 fingers due to radiation poisoning.  The story is lost in the shuffle by the N.O. incident coverage.  Kind of like the story of AIDS being manufactured as an “ethnic cleansing” weapon to reduce african decent population being covered up by the coverage of the assasination of Indira Gandhi on Oct. 31, 1984.  But we won’t go there.

Sri Oracle

Sri oracle there is this or similar article dealt with on this site, “Radioactive wounds of war” complete with a fully exposed Military DU shill. The Pentagon man gets exposed and roundly belted about the court. Possibly ongoing. He is furthermore a troll particularly active on this site. Worth the read. Trust Rabbit, it is bound to spill over.

It is appropriate to tie all the acts which are coming undone to the right people right now. They are at their weakest they are ever likely to be and the only way for them to go up from here may make it even more difficult in the future. How long do you think we’ll have even this much, Internet, to link our cause, survival of our civilization in the most basic meaning of the word.?

Surprise Anouncement - Halliburton hired to do New Orleans cleanup - who’d a thunk it?

The Navy has hired Houston-based Halliburton Co. to restore electric power, repair roofs and remove debris at three naval facilities in Mississippi damaged by Hurricane Katrina.

Halliburton subsidiary KBR will also perform damage assessments at other naval installations in New Orleans as soon as it is safe to do so.

KBR was assigned the work under a “construction capabilities” contract awarded in 2004 after a competitive bidding process. The company is not involved in the Army Corps of Engineers’ effort to repair New Orleans’ levees.


http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/business/3335685

“If you are one of the many who will be having a complete paradigm shift at this time, take heart that Rabbit understands, he loves you and always did.”

It occured for me 6 months before 9/11.

eye to eye Rabbitvoz check your private msgs at iraq news

Sri Oracle - Alchemist

ps - I misquoted above the call for federal aid was by liz not rocco

“How long do you think we’ll have even this much, Internet, to link our cause.” -rabbit

My brother, I do not know.  I have been spouting 2025 as a madhouse year for a while.  Sooner is now becoming apparent.  USGS and NOAA are still giving out pretty clean climate data.  Connecting the dots paints a clear picture.

Do get above 30 ft sea level.  Do get out of major metros.  It is coming.  It is not just the weather.

sri oracle

The comments attached to this article have been grossly censored overnight.  All comments made by rabbitvoz have been removed.  He was critical of US administration handling of this crisis.  He was not obscene and he remained on topic: “How policy decisions doomed New Orleans”

Now he said nothing.

sri oracle

FULLL TEXT OF RABBITVOZ’s comments follow.  They were made during a blog conversation last night intermittenly between my comments.

Sri Oracle

-----------------------------

Surprise Anouncement - Halliburton hired to do New Orleans cleanup - who’d a thunk it?

The Navy has hired Houston-based Halliburton Co. to restore electric power, repair roofs and remove debris at three naval facilities in Mississippi damaged by Hurricane Katrina. 

Halliburton subsidiary KBR will also perform damage assessments at other naval installations in New Orleans as soon as it is safe to do so. 

KBR was assigned the work under a “construction capabilities” contract

awarded in 2004 after a competitive bidding process. The company is not
involved in the Army Corps of Engineers’ effort to repair New Orleans’
levees. 

Sri oracle there is this or similar article dealt with on this site,
“Radioactive wounds of war” complete with a fully exposed Military DU

shill. The Pentagon man gets exposed and roundly belted about the court. Possibly ongoing. He is furthermore a troll particularly active on this site. Worth the read. Trust Rabbit, it is bound to spill over.

It is appropriate to tie all the acts which are coming undone to the right people right now. They are at their weakest they are ever likely to be and the only way for them to go up from here may make it even more difficult in the future. How long do you think we’ll have even this much, Internet, to link our cause, survival of our civilization in the most basic meaning of the word.?

Rabbit knows which is why he clear has made it that there are two types of Americans. Right now agonising about the fact that you don’t have anything with steering the ship is not going to help get it under control. My friend it is not going to be enough to save your ship from ploughing headlong into the iceberg, that you just say some of you know how badly its being steered and would do it differently. 

The iceberg in this case could more or less be defined as the rest of the planet. Chances are that your ship is so big and running hard before a building storm, it may just sink the iceberg this time. The titanic analogy is intentional. What was the classic lesson of the Titanic again? Mate we are in much worse scenario than a single ship on a calm sea.

Make sure that you don’t just skim Rabbits words. They are carefully
chosen, real and hard to misunderstand if taken in context.

Rabbit is an Gnostic of 42 years and a Water Rabbit/Aries.

Rabbit is only anonymous in the dark. In the light any can see who he is.

Cheers
“What we had in New Orleans is a growing disaster: The hurricane hit, that was one disaster; then the levees broke, that was another disaster; then the floods came; that became a third disaster.”

-George W. Bush

Are you in, my little munchkins?

One of your number is already doing his patriotic duty. The following is by a poster on this site on another thread. He is one of you, he has clearly said everything you are all about to say, and as you will see he knows what to do in the situation.

“
As far as the New Orleans situation — I should be spending less time on the computer and more at the TV. This is the worst possible handling of a natural catastrophe I have ever seen. 

These poor people are in a survival mode. Like a wounded animal they will
even attack someone who is trying to help. This is totally understandable — we are all just a few meals short of this same response. 

After listening to the Mayor of New Orleans this morning I hate to think of what will happen if the terrorists hit us with a dirty bomb. We have no training. No evacuation plans. No defense.

part two follows:

So far the terrorists are busy using your homeland security to throw Dirty Bombs at the Iraqis, and depriving. I don’t think they intend even to use DU when they start the massacres, they’ll just machine gun them from the air, using helicopters which are being kept in reserve for the purpose, which is why btw, there don’t seem to be too many to go around for rescue operations.

Oh was it not those terrorists you meant?
What others are there?

Come on you Bush lovers, where are you now that the PRESIDENT needs your support? The terrorists are attacking! Quick, quick some traitors are at it, slandering the POTUS. Putting the troops in danger, damaging confidence in the economy. Get ya guns out boys they’re everywhere. 

My god what’s that, some of the faithful are faultering, they are shocked, suddenly a new thought dawns like a brilliant ray of light. But it is blinding, it hurts, take it away. 

But no, you can’t keep the light out, it has already shone light on things you never knew were with you in the darkness, all along. You can never go completely back now. The awakening begins with a jolt. It is over in a flash, the despair begins almost immediately as you recognise this hithertoo safe room is in reality a jungle with many dark and frightening places and things. You know at the same time that you must now keep the light on, you would never want to live in this place with darkness again.

If you are one of the many who will be having a complete paradigm shift at this time, take heart that Rabbit understands, he loves you and always did. No, Rabbit does not understand the process from experience but has helped many others over the moment of realisation before. Rabbit never was silly enough to have bought the bull. Not for thirty years at least.  Its nice no longer to be a minority though.

“How long do you think we’ll have even this much, Internet, to link our cause, survival of our civilization in the most basic meaning of the word.?”

It is happening already rabbit.

at this point I’m a bit concerned for the safety of my family.  is there going to be some armed patriot act militant at my door accusing me of dissent?

sri oracle

Yes sri oracle, check your Iraq News per mes. I fear it may be so. Problems this end and did you notice all my posts gone also other places and this site re-arranged. Message me I’ll give my E-mail. This other computer etc and expect this message too to disapear.

If you’ve never had door kicked in before, make sure you nothing have illegal in possession. They don’t need any but any excuse they will use.

Announcement:

This site encourages debate about issues. The truth may be discussed but it is not in any way intended that truth should be established beyond doubt. Any poster caught seriously removing all doubt about any issue which is too unflattering to the US government or its employees will be edited out and locked out of the site. Furthermore their computer will suffer a serious hacking attack.

This thread has been re-arranged so as to undo some of the damage via strong but true words which cast serious doubt on quality of US by Rabbitvoz.

Another thread on DU has had similar treatment because Rabbitvoz said too many true things about the US government.

Members are encouraged to discuss things but this site reserves the right to curtail excessive imbalance of truth. Balance means equal amount of lies and truth.

War is Freedom
The dangers of DU are in doubt.
All animals are equal.
Some are more equal than others.

There is No Rabbitvoz
There never was anybody called Rabbitvoz
There is nothing to see here folks.

Any member mentioning someone called Rabbit as having been a real person will be terminated.
You have been warned.

Henceforth any mention of the mythical Rabbit shall simply say, “He who must not be named”

By the way sri oracle the main post on this thread by “He who must be named” which they dissappeared has had excellent response on another site and caused quite an avalanche of reaction, most unfavourable to the Junta.

Still alive and kicking, once more re-posts the one that must have cracked their shell.

By:

He Who Must Not Be Named

Some of you Americans are the biggest wack jobs this Australian has ever seen.

You are arguing about whether or not to re-build New Orleans and who to shoot while the place is still in the throes of catastrophe and the worst administration in history is screwing the thing up so badly that the death toll which could clearly have been limited to a few hundred with real leadership, is probably going to go beyond ten thousand. Most of those people are yet to die, but your country has become so enfeebled by an overun of blind panic stricken, cringing, hubris that it is going to stand by wringing its hands in dismay, repeating hollow patriotic slogans while they die. I predict that very soon the military is going to start shooting, massacres will occur, they will probably be able to rush four times as many helicopter gunships to the area for the purpose and they’ll get a budget of a few billion to carry out the necessary “work”. Hell they’ll probably be able to get the lot in place and ready to start shooting within four hours or less. Just watch them, which of course you will. Then of course you’ll be explaining to each other why it was a reasonable response since those evil looters were just out of control.

So far most of the looting I’ve seen has involved people getting Nappies, canned foods, sanitary items. They look like people trying to survive to me. They are your own countrymen and your country seems to be abandoning them, label them looters and terrorists, then shoot the lot of them. Go ahead and proove me wrong, please!

You lack any credible leadership. What you have is a pack of confirmed thugs and psychopaths devotedly looting your once great nation. They are breaking the back of your military in a war of conquest for their oil and zionist handlers. They rob from the budget of your emergency services and cutback on planned adequate preparations against such a disaster, all documented. They have sent a large portion of your civil defense, your national guard off to fight this war where they are poisoning the same forces with Nuclear Waste, (not to mention innocent Iraqi’s who might once have at least felt pity for the Americans suffering) and trying to sell the idea as Sexy. When in truth it is a war crime of the first magnitude.

Where are the national guard? Where are the extra helicopters they control? In Baghdad strafing innocent Iraqis in case you haven’t being paying attention. By the way don’t be too surprised if the world doesn’t have too much sympathy to offer this time around, this is largely seen as self inflicted, even if by mismanagement. Our sympathy is also kind of distracted by the carnage your troops are wreaking upon the Iraqis every day. There is only so much sympathy to go around sometimes. Oh expect our leaders to make sympathetic noises, they have to don’t they. But the hearts of the people will not be in it. Sorry mates, but the last five years have seen a lot of water under the bridge and we just don’t see you the same as we used to. So sad for the victims as usual are the most innocent.

Sad - an entire thread taken over by conspiracy nuts. Sad.

GrayArea -

You may have it wrong and backward, but at least you are coherent, unlike most on this thread.

“ There is no credibility in saying that nobody saw this coming.”

Nobody is saying that.  There was a decision years ago to build the NO levees to withstand a Cat 3 storm.  This was done for reasons of cost effectiveness; higher levees cost too much.  A Cat 4 or 5 storm was guaranteed to flood the city, and everybody knew it. 

The City of New Orleans and the State of Louisiana have well-developed plans to deal with hurricanes; the plans included training, rehearsals, reserve supplies, shelters, mass evacuation orders, bus transportation for those that needed it, and security.  See Annex I below.

http://www.cityofno.com/SystemModules/PrintPage.aspx?portal=46&tabid=26

The problem was the failure to execute the plan.  The plan called for a 72-hour evacuation of the city, and both the Mayor and the Governor froze with a Cat 5 hurricane bearing down on them.  Then on Sunday, with the hurricane 24 hours away:

“Gov. Kathleen Blanco, standing beside the mayor at a news conference, said President Bush called and personally appealed for a mandatory evacuation for the low-lying city, which is prone to flooding.”

President Bush had to tell the Governor and the Mayor to do their jobs according to their own plans!

http://www.nola.com/newsflash/louisiana/index.ssf?/base/news-18/1125239940201382 2.xml&storylist=louisiana

You have probably seen the school bus photo on Drudge: over 200 NO school buses up to their axles in flood water.  Those buses could have hauled over 13,000 people to safety if the plan had been followed.  Instead the buses are sitting in a parking lot in the floodwater, while people desperately needed transportation and support.

“It is plain to see that the humanitarian support infrastructure of the US is pretty much in tatters and the Bush administration expects folks to fend for themselves.”

This.  Is.  Nonsense.  And the American people know it.  The more maniacal you Liberals talk and act, the more people vote Republican.  Republicans have won seven of the last ten Presidential elections, now control both houses of the Congress, and have improved their performance in 2000, 2002, and 2004.  Keep up the good work.

Sometimes I think Karl Rove really does exert mind control over the Democrats.  Democrats seem to have zero control over their own minds.

Nice to see I’m not alowed to see naughty things that might warp my fragile little mind.Shyeah!

I’m sorry,but sometimes it’s funny to see someone do a Thelma and Louise on one of these threads.That’s why
Jack Barnes was so interesting.Now we’re going to be protected from ranting.Sweet.

By the way,sri oracle,what in blazes are you talking about?Remote control hurricanes?Please.If you want something to really be afraid of try the global warming(climatic erosion is actually more fitting)that has raised water temperatures in the Gulf of Mexico and the South Atlantic.Warm water produces hurricanes,not Flash Gordon.With our irresponsibilty of our industry Katrina could be the new standard.

I’ve heard some people were amazed that it took so long for relief supplies to show up.Considering that most of the refugees were poor and black,people who don’t vote Republican,I’m amazed that relief even got there at all.

Despite this colossal SNAFU,the Bush team is still trying to claim victory and Fox News is looking for a way to blame Democrats.

“The Black Knight always triumphs!Have at you!”
-new Bush Team slogan.

Seriously,you know you’ve choked when Gingrich says you blew it.Still,it will be fun to watch the Bush Team squirm for a few days.I wonder what Rush and Hannity could possibly say to mitigate this?

“By the way,sri oracle,what in blazes are you talking about? Remote control hurricanes?”

Google search:  HAARP

Do your own research.  Connect the dots.  Infer.

Truth will then find you.

Peace and Jah Love,

Sri Oracle

Eadora -

Do I have a link for you!  The one I provided in my post seems to be slightly garbled.  Try:

http://www.nola.com/newsflash/louisiana/index.ssf?/base/news-18/1125239940201382 2.xml&storylist=louisiana

I think the Bush quote ("breach of the levees") has been overplayed by the Liberal disaster mongers: americablog, crooksandliars, etc.  Can you access the complete ‘Good Morning, America’ transcript, for context? 

After all, it was Bush that urged Blanco and Nagin to activate their own emergency plans, and it was Bush that declared an emergency on 26 August 2005 without waiting for action by Louisiana officials.  Blanco and Nagin certainly did not anticipate breach of the levees; they did nothing until the hurricane was upon them.  I think everyone, including Bush, was hoping there would be no breach, but only President Bush and Governor Barbour did anything about it.

Which brings up another point.  How come when there is an emergency under a Republican administration (09/11, four hurricanes in Florida in 2004, Katrina in Mississippi) everyone pitches in and takes care of business, with a minimum of fuss and bother?  But when a Democratic administration is in power (Watts Riot and Katrina in Louisiana come to mind) it is like a demented circle jerk?  Do you suppose this is why the American people keep electing Republicans?  I will bet you a genuine $3 bill that the next governor of Louisiana is a Republican.

Eadora -

Did it again.

http://www.nola.com/newsflash/louisiana/index.ssf?/base/news- 18/1125239940201382.xml&storylist=louisiana

Eliminate one space after news-

Eadora -

This is making an automatic change of some sort.  The center of the address should read

...../base/news-18/11252.....

Thank You I Got It!
I have had the same problem posting links

Attention Seamus

REGARDING THE TIMING OF THE EVACUATION.

1st call that I can find comes from “Crawford Texas” Sat, Aug. 27, 2005 no time given

http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/12494800.htm?template=contentModules s/printstory.jsp

Mandatory Evacuation Ordered by Mayor: Sat, Aug. 28, 10:00am 2005

http://www.nola.com/newsflash/louisiana/index.ssf?/base/news-18/1125239940201382 2.xml&storylist=louisiana

Link given by the “scrop!”

---------
Now here is the best Link that I found describing the evacuation plan!

Louisiana revamps plan for hurricane evacuation
http://www.usatoday.com/weather/hurricane/2005-04-13-Lousiana-evacuation_x.htm?P POE=WEAISVA

Posted 4/13/2005 6:11 PM Updated 4/14/2005 6:42 PM

Involving Hurricane Ivan - Plan still in effect for this one
----------------------

Best read the article, but here are a few quotes:

Quote:  “Preparing for evacuations would begin at least 72 hours in advance under the new plan. One problem during Hurricane Ivan was the time required to get barriers, people and other material in place to allow lane reversal on highways.”

So evacuation was not to begin 72 hr before storm hit, Evacuation was to be prepared at this time.

Quote:  “The plan allows traffic from Louisiana to head north on all four interstate lanes as far as Hattiesburg/Laurel on I-59 and to south of McComb on I-55, Brown said. There would be provisions for vehicles that need to travel south to take alternate routes, such as U.S. 51.”

And that is what happened.

From above Link:

Quote:  Beginning 50 hours in advance evacuations south of New Orleans would be ordered, public offices and schools would be closed, but traffic would remain along normal routes

Quote At 40 hours, evacuation south of the Mississippi River, including ---the West Bank of New Orleans, would be ordered
------------------

As to when these evacuations were officially begun I can as yet find nothing.
I sure another poster will get that info.

Scrop has a point the 1st order for “Mandatory Evacuation” that I can find comes from Crawford Texas.

But that might have been his prerogative. I don’t know.

The Order was given by the Mayor , early the next morning

The Evacuation was never planned to begin 72 hrs before the storm hit.

Rather Preparations for the evacuations where to begin at this time.

The earliest time that the planned evacuation was suppose to begin 40 hrs, prior to lift off.

How far they where off I do not know.

Evacuation plans for all the effected areas will hopefully be scrutinized in the months to come. It wasn’t just New Orleans that suffered. Biloxi, Miss. was wiped off the map, over 100 dead and still counting. Slidel, LA, was severly affected, Gulf Port, decimated.

And every casino along the coast, that are all on floating platforms (riverboats) for the most stupid of reasons, because they wanted gambling but not in their state so they put them on the water. Dipping their toe in the water (so to speak) in favor of gambling, they probably ended up with more destruction with this dumb idea. I’m sure the casinos had insurance, they’d be way too stupid not to, unless they just figured the government would pay them off anyway.

The death toll has not even been attempted to be counted yet. We were getting many estimates by this time from the Tsunami. I’m betting when all is said and done the count from Katrina might hit 20,000.

The article is quite clear that budget cuts were certainly a signal from Washington that New Orleans just wasn’t that important to them. It has also been made quite clear in the media that Democrats in Louisiana had been pleading for the money on many occassions. Sen. Landrieu had been on the senate floor opposing those budget cuts on numerous occasions. The current mayor and previous mayors of New Orleans opposed budget cuts for levee work.

But every pundit in America knows that this falls on Bush. He took huge gains after 9/11 in polling popularity, even though he really didn’t do anything except what, visit the site and say “I hear you.”

The most recent poll I’ve seen has him at only a 45% approval (Washington Post/ABC for Aug. 25-28) which is his lowest while in office and rivals Nixon’s numbers. Just wait until polls get published that cover this past week, I’m betting below 40%.

Americans saw his slow reaction, many who voted for him I’ve personally heard have called him a disgrace. They saw Bush totally ignore the situation on Tuesday as New Orleans became submerged. He gave an Iraq speech in San Diego, he golfed in Arizona and then retired for an evening at the ranch, day 29 of his vacation. He didn’t address the country until 500pm the next day when he finally got his butt back to Washington.

The White House the other day explained they don’t know when Cheney is to return from his vacation in Wyoming. Condoleeza Rice was spotted shopping for shoes in New York Wednesday night, where someone saw her and in anger asked how could she be shopping while people were dieing in New Orleans. She then attended Spamalot that evening. No knowledge of Rumsfeld, I first saw him Saturday next to Bush when he gave his televised radio address (oxymoron). Certainly doesn’t seem these people felt Katrina aftermath was any reason to stop their pleasure plans.

It wasn’t long after 9/11 that a detailed study of what Bush did in the hours and days following that event appeared in the media, we will see it this time as well. Only this time the media is mad. New Orleans 80% underwater and Bush was still on vacation and had time for golf. If that isn’t out of touch, I don’t know what is.

How’s this for help from Bush;

Times-Picayune
Saturday, September 03, 2005
Bush visit halts food delivery
By Michelle Krupa
Staff writer

Three tons of food ready for delivery by air to refugees in St. Bernard Parish and on Algiers Point sat on the Crescent City Connection bridge Friday afternoon as air traffic was halted because of President Bush’s visit to New Orleans, officials said.

The provisions, secured by U.S. Rep. Charlie Melancon, D-Napoleonville, and state Agriculture Commissioner Bob Odom, baked in the afternoon sun as Bush surveyed damage across southeast Louisiana five days after Katrina made landfall as a Category 4 storm, said Melancon’s chief of staff, Casey O’Shea.

“We had arrangements to airlift food by helicopter to these folks, and now the food is sitting in trucks because they won’t let helicopters fly,” O’Shea said Friday afternoon.

The food was expected to be in the hands of storm survivors after the president left the devastated region Friday night, he said.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Bush not only was AWOL on Tuesday, but he was just in the way on Friday. What a loser, I’m ready to call him a murderer.

And then there’s Bush’s wife.

Lafayette Daily Advertiser
Friday, Sept. 2, 2005
Jan Risher

As the first lady toured the Red Cross shelter at the Cajundome this morning, a line of evacuees waiting to eat their lunch trickled out the door of the Dome.

First lady Laura Bush arrived about midday to tour the shelter and meet evacuees.
By 12:50 p.m., the trays of food were still covered and hungry evacuees stood in line, holding empty plates. Rice, beans and jambalaya were on the menu. About that time, volunteers began rolling the carts of food into position to serve.
~~~~~~~

Must be nice to be elite and well-fed, Laura. Get out of the way if you aren’t any help, people are really hungry after their ordeal. Are you so blind to your unimportance to this situation?

Eadora -

My original post: the first link I gave you copied wrong, also.  It should have contained the ‘City of New Orleans Comprehensive Emergency Management Plan, Annex I’.  This quote is from Annex I:

“Using information developed as part of the Southeast Louisiana Hurricane Task Force and other research, the City of New Orleans has established a maximum acceptable hurricane evacuation time standard for a Category 3 storm event of 72 hours.”

Try the corrected link:

http://www.cityofno.com/portal.aspx?portal=46&tabid=26

“The Evacuation was never planned to begin 72 hrs before the storm hit.”

I find this statement utterly incomprehensible.  Having ridden out Audrey in 1957 (600 dead) and a number of lesser blows, I assure you that New Orleans, of all places, requires a minimum of 72 hours, because of the city’s size, demographics, proximity to the coast, at risk features, and limited exit routes.  Preliminary activity after an alert allows people to secure their homes and property, allows for logistics preparations (food, water, medical), allows for transportation assembly (the infamous flooded school buses), and allows for preparations to care for special needs requirements (hospitals, nursing homes, etc.).  The actual evacuation might well take 48 hours, after the preliminaries are successfully completed.  Nobody in their right mind would announce an evacuation of New Orleans 24 hours before a Cat 5 hurricane was due to hit, but the Governor and the mayor have left minds. 

Redstate has a good timeline of the events:

http://www.redstate.org/story/2005/9/2/151117/6847

Posted by scorp on September 4, 2005 at 9:20 AM

Quote the scorp:
“The Evacuation was never planned to begin 72 hrs before the storm hit.”
“I find this statement utterly incomprehensible.”

From what I have been able to gather since my last post, I find that the 72 hr, time frame was meant as a start of “Voluntary Evacuation”, and a beginning of preparations for “Mandatory Evacuation”

Thank you for the LINK! 
CITY OF NEW ORLEANS COMPREHENSIVE EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT PLAN
http://www.cityofno.com/portal.aspx?portal=46&tabid=26

From that site I glean this relevant data.
Quote:

A.Evacuation Time Requirements

”Using information developed as part of the Southeast Louisiana Hurricane Task Force and other research, the City of New Orleans has established a maximum acceptable hurricane evacuation time standard for a Category 3 storm event of 72 hours………..”.

Clearance time also includes the time required by evacuees to secure their homes and prepare to leave (mobilization time); the time spent by evacuees traveling along the road network (travel time); and the time spent by evacuees waiting along the road network due to traffic congestion (delay time)…………. Evacuation notices or orders will be issued during three stages prior to gale force winds making landfall.

> Precautionary Evacuation Notice: 72 hours or less

> Special Needs Evacuation Order: 8-12 hours after Precautionary Evacuation Notice issued

> General Evacuation Notice: 48 hours or less
----------------------------------
According the site I found, and posted Yesterday, Which I might add has oddly enough I find has been scrubbed from the web this morning.

LOUISIANA REVAMPS PLAN FOR HURRICAN EVACUATION
http://www.usatoday.com/weather/hurricane/2005-04-13-Lousian na-evacuation_x.htm?POE=WEAISVA

I have the following quote saved from the site
Quote:  “Preparing for evacuations would begin at least 72 hours in advance under the new plan. One problem during Hurricane Ivan was the time required to get barriers, people and other material in place to allow lane reversal on highways.”
------------------------
Putting these sources together, I conclude:
The “>Precautionary Evacuation Notice: 72 hours or less” was to be voluntary. During which time Preparations would be made for “Mandatory Evacuation”
The “> General Evacuation Notice: 48 hours or less”
I take this to be the planned time given in THE COMPREHENSIVE EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT PLAN for Mandatory Evacuation.

Yoh scorp Thank for this link

TIMELINE FOR KATRINA EVENT
From your LINK – Red State .org We Get
http://www.redstate.org/story/2005/9/2/151117/6847
I recommend it as the only timeline on this event that seems to be available
Though not official it seems credible.
Unfortunately this site does not give exact time of the N.O. landfall
----------------------------

I found that info here:

HURRICANE KATRINA MAKES LANDFALL IN LA.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2005/08/29/national/a034848D47. .DTL
Aug 29 04:07 am PDT NEW ORLEANS, (AP) –

SO!

Mon. Aug 29 04:07 am PDT minus - 48 hrs. equals = Sat Aug 27 04:07 am PDT

Sat Aug 27 04:07 am PDT is the time that the “Mandatory Evacuation” order should have been made according to THE COMPREHENSIVE EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT PLAN

Sat Aug 27 09:16 pm is the time that the “Mandatory Evacuation order” was finally made, by Mayor Nagin.  According to these unofficial figures it was some 17hrs late.

It seems Mayor Nagin need his ass kicked on this one. Seventeen Hours could have gotten a lot of people out.  FACT UNAVOIDABLE

PLEASE KEEP IN MIND “scorp”!
That this in no way mitigates, this Administrations Incompetent polices
Other Unavoidable Facts

THE GHOST OF KYOTO COMES CALLING ON NEW ORLEANS

“No One Can Say they Didn’t See it Coming”

http://www.informationclearinghouse...rticle10050.htm

After reading the article, we may come to some conclusions as to the competency of the Bush administration.

The facts delineated in the above analysis show ----

Bush Ignored FEMA’s warnings that New Orleans was in grave danger warning - Bush & his Administration’s fault

They Ignored U.S. Army Corps of Engineers proposal & plan, that New Orleans could be protected from a catastrophic hurricane - Bush & his Administration’s fault

Federal funding for the flood control project essentially dried up and was sent to Iraq - Bush & his Administration’s fault.

Additional cuts at the beginning of this year - Bush & his Administration’s fault.

Total reduction in funding of 44.2 percent since 2001 - Bush & his Administration’s fault.

Senate debate to adding funds for fixing New Orleans’ levees, is too late - Bush & his Administration’s fault.

Turning Wetlands over to developers - Bush & his Administration’s fault.

Ignored US Army Corps of Engineers warning regarding Wetlands - Bush & his Administration’s fault.

Ignored a joint expert environmental study regarding wetlands – Bush & his Administration’s fault.

Ignored EPA on global consequences of climate warming - Bush & his Administration’s fault.

Stymied any common action on global warming - Bush & his Administration’s fault.

Ignored call by Noble Scientists to “Restore Scientific Integrity into Policymaking” - Bush & his Administration’s fault.

New Orleans disaster was exasperated by these policies - Bush & his Administration’s fault.

That many people may have difficulty dealing with facts. - Who’s to say?
But the Facts remain. It remains to be seen weather they will be allowed to drown in the magnitude of this tragedy.

Eadora -

“After reading the article, we may come to some conclusions as to the competency of the Bush administration.”

Who reads Information Clearinghouse?  IC is a hard left propaganda site.  The only thing you can say about it is that it is dead-sure wrong on any position it takes.

For example:

“They Ignored U.S. Army Corps of Engineers proposal & plan, that New Orleans could be protected from a catastrophic hurricane - Bush & his Administration’s fault”.

But consider:

“The New Orleans area’s last line of defense against hurricane flooding is a 475-mile-long system of levees, locks, sea walls and floodgates averaging about 16 feet high. The Army Corps of Engineers says the system will protect the city and suburbs from a Category 3 hurricane that pushes in enough seawater to raise Lake Pontchartrain 11.5 feet above sea level ...”

http://www.nola.com/washingaway/risk_1.html

Well and good, but Katrina was a Cat 5 hurricane as it came ashore, and the levee system was not designed to withstand a storm this strong.  The system was built to a Cat 3 specification because of cost considerations.  Raising the height of 475 miles of the levee system would require a spectacular cost, and there is no proposal to do such a thing.  All the people who are talking about rebuilding New Orleans ought to consider how much protection they are willing to pay for when they talk about rebuilding.  I expect that if you add up the cost of rebuilding and the cost of Cat 5 protection, New Orleans will never be rebuilt.

Similarly:

“Stymied any common action on global warming - Bush & his Administration’s fault”.

Ummm, no.

During the Clinton Administration, the Senate voted 95-0 to reject the Kyoto Accords, and the idea was shelved.  People like Information Clearinghouse and Al Gore keep bringing the subject up, and lying about if, but there is no serious discussion of Kyoto at this point, and never will be, because the whole concept is inaccurate, flawed, and too silly for words.  And Bush had nothing to do with it.  And global warming had nothing to do with Katrina.

Eadora, you went to some trouble to research this subject, and then you turned over your critical thinking faculty over to a crack-pot outfit like Information Clearinghouse.  Why?  You need to learn to think for yourself.  There are too many people out there that will joyfully lie to you if you can’t think your way through these things.

“Experts have warned for years that the levees and pumps that usually keep New Orleans dry have no chance against a direct hit by a Category 5 storm.”—AP story, 8/29/05

Ummm…

“I don’t think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees.”—George W. Bush, 9/1/05

Scorpion- Noone is saying that Katrina was a direct consequence of global warming. Global warming is a massive and immense climatic alteration process that scientists are still beginning to understand the consequences of. Furthermore, there is NO way to attribute a single weather incident to something as pervasive as global warming. There are too many other varibales involved. But scientists do know that global warming leads and will lead to more irregular weather patterns, as well as more intense storms.

Think of this analogy: crime goes up when a heat wave hits, but that does NOT mean that an individual who commits a crime did it specifically beacuse of the heat. Yet that does NOT mean that heat waves do not influence the level of crime.

“[Nobody’s] saying that Katrina was a direct consequence of global warming.”

Although there is plenty of reliable scientific evidense that suggests that warmer waters in the Gulf of Mexico did in fact contribute to the storm’s intensity. Storms increase in intensity as they pass over warm waters. It figures that the warmer the water the more a storm’s intensity will increase. 

http://www.gfdl.noaa.gov/reference/bibliography/2004/tk0401.pdf

http://www.heatisonline.org/main.cfm

So who are you going to believe? Bona fide scientific scholars, or a pathological liar (George Bush)?

Tim Christopher- I hear you on that last post. I was not trying to deny the fact that global warming alters weather patterns, just that one could directly attribute global warming to Katrina. If you read the latter part of my post I explicitly say that global warming does lead to more irregular and violent weather. I do not doubt the existence of global warming, just that a straight line of logic can be made from the greenhouse effect to this hurricane.

The administration couldn’t get things rolling for almost 3 days. I wonder why Harry Connick could get in and out but not any food or water.

Rabbits ghost drops by.

“In These Times” has regained Rabbit’s trust somewhat and he apologises for accusing them of dishonesty. Also Seamus, Rabbit will swiftly withdraw the accusation of lying as soon as it is admitted that Rabbit did not in fact make any threats. Snarled and bit the Pentagon shill mercilessly he did, but no threats.

To those who are still demonstrating the elasticity of the human mind by supporting the criminal junta which rules your poor country Rabbit would say the following.

You belong to a small and swiftly shrinking minority. Unlike religions, political beliefs or any other cause, the traffic in supporters is one way street. Nobody is ever being converted to support you and nobody ever changes their mind once they begin to see the truth. Witness the masses of people all over the net admitting that they were amongst the supporters of Shrub and the Junta only a week ago. It is unlikely that you will comprehend this or its consequences, but if you did you would understand why most people hold you in contempt.

The problem with you Scorp (and you do have a problem) is that you don’t know the difference between opinions and facts.

These two terms are the most common words shouted in an argument and yet when arguing with your type you call everything you say fact while others you accuse of having opinions. Now Rabbit has always believed that opinions are best formed based upon facts.

George Bush is a proven liar, that is a fact, provable history.

For you to say otherwise is for you to prove that you have not got the fact only an opinion, no doubt based upon opinions you have been fed. We can prove Bush lies, you can only express your opinion that you don’t believe us. Since there is ample proof that Bush is a massive liar, it isn’t an opinion sweety, it’s a fact. Now Rabbits opinion is that a President who lies as much as Shrub, is not only very bad, but terribly dangerous. Of course he wouldn’t be dangerous if he didn’t represent people like you, but he does, he is your emperor.

Most people can now see your emperor has no clothes, but by all means keep on telling us how fine he is dressed, we are in need of comic relief at this time.

Does anyone know how much help, water, food, water purification units, troops and evacuation transport America was able to get to Banda Aceh, and how quickly. Rabbit will look it up and post soon otherwise?

Yoh “scorp!”

I appreciated your link
THE TIMELINE FOR KATRINA EVENT
From – “Red State .org”

http://www.redstate.org/story/2005/9/2/151117/6847
I recommended it as the only timeline on this event that seems to be available

Though not official it seems credible.

It dealt with the Facts given – Though as you may have guessed, I am not one of REP Conservative nature.

Yet I accepted the facts and adjusted my thinking. As unsavory as those facts may have seemed to me.

EG> “The Mayor should have his ASS kicked!

Now we can get facts out of the mouth of “HELL” good brother!

Facts are not Partisan, Facts don’t take sides!  “Facts IS Facts.” so to speak.

Hell is hot!  The facts about Hell are probably best measured in Hell!

Now if :  http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/index.html

Have some Facts.  <<I will evaluate them!>>

Weather facts are quoted or offered from RIGHT, LEFT or CENTER.  If they stand up as facts,
My world view must take them into account.

That is why I evaluated the facts you gave me.
The facts that were revealed and quoted by the web site, RED STATE.ORG ,
Hardly an un-biased source!

Yet I found the FACTS that they offered were Credible.  As unpleasant to my preconceptions, as I might have found those facts, I found that they indicated to me that the Mayor of New Orleans was in remiss.
He should be pilloried.

I repeat myself because this is a very important point.

Now as regards a few other FACTS!

The US Army Corps of Engineers HAD a plan to deal with a class 5 hurricane.
They were ignored!

FEMA repeatedly warned. – THEY were ignored.

US Corps of Engineers warned about the destruction of the Wetlands
They were Ignored.

Everybody warned and pleaded for funds to reinforce the Levees
They were Ignored.  AND incredibly FUNDS WERE CUT!

Numerous Independents Pleaded and Warned.
They were Ignored.

THOSE ARE “SOME” OF THE FACTS! 

It does not matter WHO brings these facts to LIGHT
Whether, RIGHT< LEFT< CENTER.— Commie, Pinko, Saint, Indian, Sinner Jew, or Freak Terrorist.

Facts are Non Partisan.  That is what is so beautiful about them.

If the facts prove credible and valid!
YOU MUST “DEAL” WITH THEM!

“You learn to deal with facts , when you learn to think for YOURSELF!

And you change your world view as you perceive FACTS.

That is called growth & learning. Being ALIVE!
–THINKING FOR YOURSELF

I’ll get back to you on the Clinton thing when I learn the FACTS.

As Far as KOYOTO and Global Warming is concerned, It will probably best be dealt with on it’s own Thread. 

The facts in that regard speak volumes to me!

Like I said:  “That many people may have difficulty dealing with facts. - Who’s to say?”

It has been said:  “When ‘The True Believer’ is presented with facts, that would seem to present a problem with his belief system.  He will simply ignore those facts and pray a little harder.”

Are You A True Believer, or do you think for Yourself?

Rabbit has finally come to recognise why otherwise good people who surely have the same basic ideals would argue so much. They don’t know the difference between facts and opinions.

Another fact, upon which an opinion can then be based, a worthwhile opinion.

The united states is committing a massive war crime at this moment, unlawfully attacking a sovereign nation and using banned weapons of war under both Chemical and Nuclear categories.

Here are five hundred links which completely make the case for this fact.

http://www.betterworldlinks.org/du.htm

This event should have been a catstrophe with fairly limited casualties, and would have been almost anywhere else in the world. It is still a week later in full disarray and most of the expected tens of thousands of deaths are yet to occur. Rabbit predicted over ten thousand before you heard it anywhere, see date and time of his above posts. Rabbit is always right about these things, he predicted the Tsunami total on day two, within a couple of thousand when they predicting total would only be a few thousand.

The reason that this happened is based upon a fact. Not enough money or attention ny authorities who were using most of that money and attention to commit the war-crime outlined above. There cannot be any disputing these facts, they are history.

Now you may have the OPINION that bush is to blame for these facts, or you may be of the opinion that Muslims are to blame, or you may have it in your head that I am to blame. These then we shall call opinions, and you are welcome to espouse yours. Do not make an ass of yourself by coming into a public space and mistaking facts for opinions. You will not only make an ass of yourself, Rabbit who promises to not bite anymore, but still has a snarl which will make you wish you had never opened your stupid trap.

Simple formula:

FACTS + THOUGHT = OPINIONS

Yoh! Rabbit!
Welcome Back! 
Try not to be so Rabbid!

Go Get Em!  Just don’t Kill em!

Liberal

Information Clearinghouse
Eadora

Time Magazine, Is Global Warming Fueling Katrina?
Democracy Now!, Katrina’s Real Name is Global Warming.
Der Spiegel, Katrina Should be a Lesson to US on Global Warming.
Boston Globe, Katrina’s Real Name … global warming.
CNN, ABC, USA Today, Katrina Reignites Global Warming Debate.
Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.
Juergen Tritten, German Environmental Minister.

The first two items above are from this thread where someone claims that global warming caused Katrina.  The next items are representative samples from Google Search ‘global warming Katrina’, 650,000 entries all in the last two weeks or so.  About 90% of the entries are MSM or blatant left-wing sites pronouncing on the certainty of a direct connection between global warming and hurricanes in general and, frequently, Katrina in particular.

But consider:  The average number of USA hurricane strikes in the last 150 years is 17.7 strikes per decade.  Since 1951, the number of strikes per decade has been less than this average, meaning that there were more hurricanes before anyone ever heard of global warming.  There have been three historical Cat 5 strikes in the USA; Katrina was not one of them.  So if global warming causes more and bigger hurricanes, where are they?  What the Liberals proclaim does not agree with the observed data.

Eadora

This is only the Ghost of Rabbit, but if you will do him the honour of reading these few last posts, and let Rabbit know if he is not being nicer and briefer.

Good Rabbit, trying hard to be nice.

--Scorp

Go read Rabbit’s words you scorp. That is where the discussion begins. They should make it clear you are not yet ready to debate with people who really are less interested in your opinion than they are those of people who base theirs on FACTS. You have only opinions and you prove it if you are unable to recognise the difference between Opinions and Fact. Opinions we can argue, facts are not disputable things, so deal with the first two FACTS I have given above, then offer an opinion on them, so we can see how you are progressing. Beyond that we know all your opinions already. You see we can watch TV too so we can read the script, you haven’t deviated from it a bit so don’t protest.

Answer Rabbit, please scorp, he has promised the nice people he will not attack you. He is trying to help you get well. Not to change your opinions, that is not Rabbit’s business. But he must give you the tools to win this argument for yourself. That means you have to be able to distinguish those critical issues of Fact versus Opinion. With facts the person has already won an argument. Without them you are left defending just your opinion with no hope of winning, ever. Just like Iraq kind of War really. This really is the answer to all human strife, arguments and war. None of which are absolutes. These are not ideals. Rabbit shall teall you what ideals are. They are Love, Security, Food, Shelter, Health and a good future for our children. None of these is a given they can all be lost. Think about it a minute and try to imagine why anyone would want to hurt any of these ideals for anyone else? Why then would anyone else want to threaten your ideals of this nature?

Since facts are irrefutable they must be the same for everyone. Since then the only reason left for war must be somebody mistaking opinion for facts this seems the only likely explanation. Of course it is just Rabbits opinion that we all share the same ideals above, but nothing has ever suggested anything different in many years of travels.

But who would want or even be able to so control your opinions as to make us go to war?

Rabbit thinks that answer is obvious. Governments and Religions.

By the way scorp. If you heed my very fair and reasonable words, you may end up spelling your own name with a capital S, denoting self respect at least. Rabbit would then too, the ‘S’ that is.

“The tropics are only going to get busier as we enter the peak of the season,” said Brig. Gen. David L. Johnson, USAF (Ret.), director of the NOAA National Weather Service. “This may well be one of the most active Atlantic hurricane seasons on record, and will be the ninth above-normal Atlantic hurricane season in the last eleven years.”

Scorp, please… your opinion on this.

Sri Oracle

“Although we have already seen a record-setting seven tropical storms during June and July, much of the season’s activity is still to come,” said Gerry Bell, lead meteorologist on NOAA’s Atlantic Hurricane Seasonal Outlook. The predicted high levels of activity during the remainder of the season are consistent with NOAA’s pre-season outlook issued last spring, and are comparable to those seen during August to October of the very active 2003 and 2004 seasons.”

Scorp?

Aug. 2, 2005 — A very active Atlantic hurricane season is underway, and with more storms projected, NOAA today increased the number of storms in its 2005 hurricane season outlook. NOAA expects an additional 11 to 14 tropical storms from August through November, with seven to nine becoming hurricanes, including three to five major hurricanes. In total, this season is likely to yield 18 to 21 tropical storms, with nine to 11 becoming hurricanes, including five to seven major hurricanes.”

“Because of the multidecadal-scale nature of the Atlantic SST variability portrayed here, the shift since 1995 to an environment generally conducive to hurricane formation is not likely to change back soon.”

WHY NOTHING WILL CHANGE AFTER NEW ORLEANS

1. This is not an election year. By the time the next election rolls around the voting public will have forgotten all about it.

2. No one in the mainstream media will still be talking about New Orleans in a month’s time. The feeling will be unanimous that there were failures all round, so there’s no point in trying to blame anyone in particular. The message, as always, will be that it’s time to move on.

3. Within six months, the mainstream media will shortly begin deluging Americans with images of the reconstruction effort. By the time the mid-term elections are held, the perception of Bush as the ‘master of disaster’ will have been replaced by the perception that he is the ‘reconstruction president.’

Social Democracy

That is certainly what one would expect if this is the end run. If we still have a choice, then this may be our last option to make it. Just a Rabbit intuition.

They are great at the mindless invective and quoting so to “prove” their opinions> Opinions one thing. Facts another thing.
Present them with one provable fact and.......

Guess scorp must be praying harder, because he sure isn’t saying anything.

Sri do you read Rense? A couple of articles of late have taken Chemtrails from my list of interesting but don’t think so, to mainstream and proof. Actually I might otherwise have questioned their validity in this discussion.

I saw that 54,000 troops will be in the devastated areas. And these idiots wanted to start a WAR with only 100,000 more?? If we can’t even help ourselves, how on earth can we “help” others.
I am a grandmother; when I was a child the National Guard was advertised and used as a help in natural disasters. Instead these precious resources have been squandered on Iraq.
It’s enough to make those who saw red to see blue.

Social Democracy Now

Geez, I hate to say it, but I have to probably agree with your opinion, which is exactly why our country will eventually be toppled from its perch. I keep hoping that something wakes us up and sweep these corrupt politicians out of office so we can embark on a more honest way of running our country. Even Katrina might not do it, we will have forgotten by 2006.

Through the week I was both extremely depressed by the images coming out of the media of the Katrina aftermath, and had a growing positivism that maybe this would wake Americans up to the fact that both political parties have fault in this, but the Bushies were probably most to blame.

My feeling about New Orleans is that two main culprits caused failure of huge proportions.

First is one of priorities. If we (as a nation) had wanted to protect one of the most important port cities in our nation, the federal money would have been there. If we had cared about the poor and non-whites in this country we would have long changed the way urban cities exist. And if we had cared about democracy we would have changed the corrupt political and election system we have.

Second is one of qualifications. Our society has for too long cosidered those worthy of running things or advancing in organizations for mostly the wrong reasons. Particularily when it comes to political appointees. Case in point FEMA head Michael Brown who apparently had no experience running such a large organization, of even being in such a large entity or of having any experieince in disaster relief. We the people simply accept that appointees don’t have to have any qualifications, that it is all up to the whims of those we elect and we see this all over the country regardless of party.

Both parties whether a mayor, a governor or a president essentially appoint their friends who helped in their campaigns, particularily the ones who raise money. Whatever happened to working ones way up in an organization, proving time and again that the person was equal to the task until they proved they were able to run an organization? In Mike Browns case, I imagine he probably had campaign ties to Bush and worthy candidates within FEMA were passed over.

Bush probably a bit more than previous presidents has done this relentlessly to every department in government. Imagine that reliable bureaucrat that toils within a department working their way up only to be appointee-ceilinged from promotion. It doesn’t take much to understand that that can demoralize the good workers in an organization, affecting the department as a whole. We see this in the corporate world as well, in fact it has gotten out of hand. Some CEO from the outside comes in and starts chopping heads figuratively, like Saddam Hussein after taking power.

Finally, a major fault in America today is accountability. When was the last time you heard ANYONE in high places say they messed up, that they are sorry and finally that they deserved some sort of repercussion? I was shocked by Richard Clarke in the 9/11 Commission hearings apologize to America for letting us down and it wasn’t even he that let us down. What a breath of fresh air, an actual apology. In Japan if someone high-up screws the pooch they consider suicide. I’d be happy with something like, “I’m at fault, I deserve some sort of punishment.” But not in todays America, a mistake is a reason to cover up and attack the opposition.

That’s says volumns about our country.

Eadora –

Dictators talk about democracy because democracy has a good reputation.  But dictators do not practice democracy.  Example: People’s Democratic Republic of Korea, which does not belong to the people, nor is it a democracy, nor is it a republic.

By the same token, ideologues on this site talk much about facts, while holding the same relationship with facts that Kim Jong-Il holds with democracy; they would not recognize a fact if it bit them.  Please quit talking about ‘facts’ and start incorporating them in your discussions.

“The US Army Corps of Engineers HAD a plan to deal with a class 5 hurricane.  They were ignored!”

Do you have a link for this? 

Here are some facts for you:

·The NO levees were designed to contain a Cat 3 hurricane.  There is no plan to upgrade the 475 miles of NO levees to Cat 5 standards.  The only estimate I have ever seen said that the upgrade would take thirty years.  The cost would be astronomical. 

·A Cat 4 or 5 hurricane cannot be contained with plans, or designs, or models, or bundles of money.  Therefore I cannot credit a USACE plan purported to deal with a Cat 5 hurricane, but I would still like to see your link.

·Since Katrina was a Cat 4 hurricane and the NO levees were designed against a Cat 3 event, it was almost guaranteed that the levees would fail.  This has been known for years.  The levees were built no higher because of cost considerations.

·New Orleans is subsiding.  The levees themselves are subsiding.  The entire Louisiana and Mississippi coastal marshes are subsiding.  As the city subsides, any new levee system will have to be constantly upgraded.  How deep of a hole in the ground do you expect to protect by levees?  To what purpose?

·The coastal area is subsiding at least partly because the levee system that has been built in the last century or two forces all the silt-bearing Mississippi River water out the mouth of the Mississippi into deep water.  Before the levees, high water dissipated out in the Delta and silt constantly restored the marshes, which are now disappearing.

If you wish to deal with real problems, this is the type information you must address.  Make-believe ‘Bush lied!’ slogans do not help, and are not true.

Scorp,

You are incredibly self-deluded. 

Clinton passed legislation in ‘95 to authorize the rebuilding of the levees around N.O. and to shore-up the Gulf Coast, as well to formulate a detailed evacuation plan for these regions.

In ‘03 Bush oversaw the destruction of these plans and funding of the rebuilding so that the funds could go to Iraq. 

Now we stand on the verge of having helped to create a new fascist theocracy bound by history and culture to Iran.  What a piece of crap!

FEMA reports to and takes orders directly from the President of the United States.  There is no middle man.  So George W. Bush is 100% to blame for this fiasco.  Don’t go trying to place blame on the mayor of New Orleans or Gov. Blanco.  They requested aid before the hurricane and didn’t receive it.  This operation is completely symptomatic of the inane and total incompetence of the Bush Administration.

The revolution begins now!

Watch the GOP fall from “glory” in ‘06.  Every black in America now sees what the Admin. thinks of them.

Social Democracy: “By the time the next election rolls around the voting public will have forgotten all about it.”

I disagree. What we are witnessing now is the fall of the house of Bush. (Bad Bush Karma)

It began shortly after the last election as the policy failures and scandals of his administration come about full circle and they can no longer suppress the truth. The hurricane has laid bare the illusion of homeland security and directly confronts Bush’s leadership abilities and his priorities. People are fed up with his lies and the scandals inherent in his administration.

I predict that Bush’s approval ratings will continue to fall and further pressure will come from the growing anti-war movement where sentiment is sure to grow during the upcoming demonstrations in Washington later this month.

The medai will side with the growing disapproval ratings of Bush and become more critical of the adminitration and moves they make. 

As gas prices continue to spiral up, so too will average Americans more and more begin to question Bush’s energy policy and handling of the situation. Economic growth will suffer and continue a downward trend as a result of high fuel prices. Concern over the mounting debt will grow. 

The situation in Iraq will worsen and result in civil war. More American solidiers will die, more average Americans will question the reasoning for a continued occupation there.

The trial of SH will reveal American intervention in pre-war Iraq affairs and more scandal will ensue. More people will question American involvement in the affairs of foreign governments and further question Bush policy.

Fighting in Afghanistan will probably escalate, compounding the need for more troops. The President will cite extraordinary circumstances and reinstate the draft. Result: more student protests, more negativity and resistance to conservative spin.

Controversy will grow with the selections of Supreme Court justices and massive demonstrations (should Roe vs Wade be overturned) will further divide the country.

The idea of rallying the nation’s unity by further conquest (war with Iran) would only draw more negative opinion at this point.

Mid term elections should reflect a growing disapproval of the direction the neocons are taking the country and more pressure will be placed on the Democratic party to respond accordingly.

I see it going more like that.

Make-believe ‘Bush lied!’ slogans do not help, and are not true.”

Make believe your President didn’t say this to journalist Diane Sawyer:

“I don’t think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees.”

George bush is a bullshit President and all those that continue to make excuses for him and his administration are bullshiters, themselves.

You are absolutely right, Tim.  This is the beginning of the end for the Bush Crime Family.

Wait until Special Prosecutor Fitzgerald drops the bomb on the Rove/Plame investigation.  It’s going to dovetail in nicely with the Downing Street Minutes, and the truth will be there for everyone to see-- Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, et al lied LIED LIED LIED, and continue to lie to the American people and Congress.  Not just a mantra, as Scorp would like to believe, but cold, hard facts.  Can we spell I-M-P-E-A-C-H-M-E-N-T hearings?

Note to those who want to blame those NOT in charge of FEDERAL disaster response:

Sen. Landrieu said:

“Yesterday, I was hoping President Bush would come away from his tour of the regional devastation triggered by Hurricane Katrina with a new understanding for the magnitude of the suffering and for the abject failures of the current Federal Emergency Management Agency. 24 hours later, the President has yet to answer my call for a cabinet-level official to lead our efforts. Meanwhile, FEMA, now a shell of what it once was, continues to be overwhelmed by the task at hand.

“I understand that the U.S. Forest Service had water-tanker aircraft available to help douse the fires raging on our riverfront, but FEMA has yet to accept the aid. When Amtrak offered trains to evacuate significant numbers of victims – far more efficiently than buses – FEMA again dragged its feet. Offers of medicine, communications equipment and other desperately needed items continue to flow in, only to be ignored by the agency.

“But perhaps the greatest disappointment stands at the breached 17th Street levee. Touring this critical site yesterday with the President, I saw what I believed to be a real and significant effort to get a handle on a major cause of this catastrophe. Flying over this critical spot again this morning, less than 24 hours later, it became apparent that yesterday we witnessed a hastily prepared stage set for a Presidential photo opportunity; and the desperately needed resources we saw were this morning reduced to a single, lonely piece of equipment. The good and decent people of southeast Louisiana and the Gulf Coast – black and white, rich and poor, young and old – deserve far better from their national government.

“Mr. President, I’m imploring you once again to get a cabinet-level official stood up as soon as possible to get this entire operation moving forward regionwide with all the resources – military and otherwise – necessary to relieve the unmitigated suffering and economic damage that is unfolding.”

And the video at this link puts the lunacy of this federal fiasco in clear perspective:

http://www.overspun.com/?p=1549&fark;Cheney couldn’t even bother to cut his vacation short.  What a “compassionate conservative”!