Katrinas Racial Wake

Don’t you you love the right-wing spin on their most recent dropping of the ball.

“Hey,nature happens.”

Sweet.

They knew the hurricane was coming.FEMA had published a lengthy report stating that a hurricane would eventually hit.They knew the approaching hurricane would damage the levees.
Worst of all they had to know that there would be victims.This time,unlike the seven minutes that Bush sat in a daze during 9/11,he sat and did nothing after our country was hit by the worst hurricane in thirty years.Now they wish to absolve themselves from blame.

Sorry,Georgie,the southern states WILL remember this one for a while,even if you pass laws that allow southerners to buy guns out of vending machines and restore prayer in school.Hopefully our populace won’t forget the Bush teams irresponsibility as the full scale of this horror is realized.Perhaps a Cindy Sheehan for this recent Bush blunder is needed.

I wonder if we would have this snafu if the Katrina had hit Bush’s brother’s state?

Honestly,what does Bush have to mess up for his toadies to see just how incompetent he is? Come to think of it,I don’t know if I want the answer to that.

I like the fact that this article pointed out not only how the race/poverty correlation was a largel taboo issue in America outside the progressive arena, but how the prevailing conception by the general American public of New Orleans as an upscale, tourist destination that was all fun and games was completely shattered by Katrina. I cannot think of a natural disaster that has so fundamentally altered the public conscience about fundamental issues such as race and poverty as has Katrina. This event may mark the beginning of the end of conservatism in this country.

A poll shows 74% of republicans feel Bush is doing an excellent or good job dealing with the Lake George(formerly New Orleans)debacle. There sure are alot of poor black folk suffering. The last year a majority of white people voted for a Democrat for president was 1964. The last northern Democrat to win the presidency was JFK in 1960. There sure are alot of poor black folk suffering. But I repeat myself looking for a point to make…

Eventually a large meteor will strike the Earth, with the worst case scenario being the possibility of wiping out all humans. Yet Bush does nothing to alleviate this certain but future tragedy, just as Clinton, Bush I, and Reagan before him. Just like the New Orleans disaster. . .

Cost benefit. How much money do we spend to attempt to avert disasters? To make New Orleans able to withstand a direct category 5 hurricane would be VERY expensive. So expensive that it has never actually been seriously proposed. The levees that broke were not even the ones slated for upgrades. How can this be the fault of the feds, much less the current chief executive?

Perhaps some good will come from this. Yes we should rebuild a very limited New Orleans. Permanently condemn the very low lying areas (say those that are 10 feet below the water level) or/and build some of them up higher. And then protect that limited area more robustly. But even then, disasters will still occur (and, of course, they will impact the poor more than the wealthy, at least statistically).

mcartri opines: “There sure are alot of poor black folk suffering.”

I think: There sure are alot of poor folk suffering. And some not so poor folk too. Almost like a major tragedy occured. . .

Natural disasters don’t distinguish between the races. To put it in Biblical terms an Old Testiment writer put it this way, “God causes the rain to fall on the just and the unjust.” Not so much a blame on God as an observation from experience.

Among those whose homes were destroyed was none other than Trent Lott. Not a favorite of mine, but I wouldn’t wish this on anyone. There are things which no amount of insurance or wealth can replace.

I have to agree that the poor people got the short end (not unusual), but who should know better what their situation was than their mayor? No money — no car — no ticket out.
A lack of funds is a lack of freedom of choices.

There is and will continue to be plenty of spin on this from now on. This article for example has mutliple indictments of the Federal government, but they are the last of the three governmental levels responsible in a case like this. It has to do with the way the Constitution disperses power. In this case States’ Rights leave it to the Governor to “invite” Federal involvement. If we think this is wrong, we need to change it.

Oh. My. God. Leave it to Salim to write some piece of shit article like this. Yeah, it’s (again) some big, racist conspiracy at the heart of the suffering and tragedy of New Orleans.

As I or anyone who’s spent time in that once magnificent city, NONE of this is news. The poverty/race statistics are accurate to my recollections of the city… so who’s surprised that most of the people left behind were of the MAJORITY race? Come on already, blacks make up the bigger percentage of the population, and unfortunately the bigger slice of the poverty pie. This wasn’t a RACE issue; it was a CLASS issue.  And contrary to Salim’s blanket assessment, I saw plenty of white folks in the news footage, too.

And, this was also a LOCAL issue! While FEMA/Homeland Security probably could’ve done more, all this represents is a cheap, stupid opportunity to blast Dubya. Don’t get me wrong, there’s plenty of rope for him but in this case, sorry, nada.

CONGRESS ultimately puts the financial kabosh on funding for research/enginering of the levees, floodwalls (the part that actually broke) and pumping systems. This has been going on for several administrations, not just Dubya’s.

But what about loudmouth mayor Ray Nagin? His very own office drafted plans on what to do in just such an emergency and yet he somehow managed to virtually ignore it. Case in point: watch the footage… see those rows and rows of empty school and municipal buses sitting in floodwaters unused? According to Nagin’s own plans, these were to be used to transport people in an evacuation.

What did he do? Let them sit dormant. Failed to arrange for adequate security at the Superdome. Issued a weak evacuation order that only yesterday turned into a “forced” order. The Governor of Louisiana failed to ask for help, which is the first part in initiating pleas for Federal assistance. Dubya did his part in declaring the place a disaster area early on; what, the hell, were the local and state officials doing?

Oh yeah… mouthing off and swearing in the media! Well done, guys… well done.

Adding insult to injury, FEMA’s Brown has ordered the media not to photograph the dead bodies in New Orleans.  He’s blocking cameramen from accompanying the search crews.  He’s had enough bad press.

Reasonable? Of course not. It’s a slam-dunk violation of the 1st Amendment and freedom of the press. Anyone, dead or alive, can be photographed in a public place. Although morbid, a wide-ranging collection of dead-body photos would simply be part of the truth of what happened in New Orleans.

So here we have the chief of the same agency whose inaction and murderous policies—turning away many relief parties through Day 5, who could have significantly reduced the death toll—unconstitutionally gagging the press to stop production of images that show the agency’s murderous handiwork.

In-freaking-tolerable.

Remove that incompetent and begin criminal prosecution under 18 USC 241—conspiracy against citizen rights—immediately.  He is another Bush administration felon-in-waiting.  Per the penalties cited in 18 USC 241, his sentence on conviction will be life imprisonment or the death penalty. Richly deserved.

See “FEMA Blocks Photos of New Orleans Dead”
Editor & Publisher, 07 September 2005
http://www.mediainfo.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=100105576 68

g-love wrote “The Governor of Louisiana failed to ask for help, which is the first part in initiating pleas for Federal assistance. Dubya did his part in declaring the place a disaster area early on; what, the hell, were the local and state officials doing?”. 

This is clearly not the case, and the lie and its retraction are well documented.  Both Govenor Blanco and President Bush declared a state of emergency on August 27.

There is an excellent timeline of events at http://talkingpointsmemo.com/katrina-timeline.php

Wood,

What are you talking about? 
wood wrote “I wonder if we would have this snafu if the Katrina had hit Bush’s brother’s state?”

Six hurricanes and a couple tropical storms have hit Florida in the last thirteen months. It took three days to get food, ice and water to my area after Francis.  My brother went down to do search and rescue after Charlie, they we doing that well past a week.

What you have in New Orleans is a Mayor and Governor that abandened their citizens, and FEMA has 90,000 square miles, compared to New Orleans 300, of disaster area to assist.

By the way LIBERAL, your hopes of this bringing down conservatives, do not bet on it. 

13% of americans do not blame BUSH. CNN/USATODAY/GALLOP poll:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/07/katrina.poll/

WTH.

Please return to previous thread. Rabbit has something to say to you, Tis a little long, but it is “critical” if you are to maintain the ground you have gained.  Rabbit promises you will thank him for it. Let us first turn around once and look behind ourselves before we defend the messiah and his merry men. Nothing occurs in vacuum, least of all a debate.

You must address the first step fully, you will understand. Rabbit to and fro must weld and grind boat a bit. But is here.

Same to you Think, he has no desire to be meaner than necessary. Please note that Rabbit’s meanest words ever which were censored, have been re-instated on DU thread, if anybody wondered what “that” was about.

The lesson in Government disinfo agents is worth the long read.

Rabbit is vindicated.

.. Dance. Happy Wabbit..@

Arekd, I stand by my comments, you’re getting some bad info. Yes, Dubya and Blanco both declared on the 27th; but where was Blanco/Nagin’s mouth prior to this? Clearly, the local/state government were as much - or more - a part of the problem as the Feds.

g-love, nothing occurs in a vacuum. The current, catastrophe, and a week later it is still current did not happen out of the blue as a single failure in an otherwise spotless administration. Apportioning the amount of blame within the various cells of the administration of your nation says nothing except that you Americans have still not learnt a dam thing.

The end result of apportioning blame will not diminish the amount of blame which falls onto the administration as a collective. One hundred percent.

Before any Dittoheads spout, acts of god or whatever other slogans work for you, at this moment, consider this.

Katrina did not happen within a vacuum. Before giving the administration any benefit of the doubt, is it not relevant to ask what is their track record like? What has their previous performance been like.

Of all the things which have come out of the mouth of George Bush, is there anyone who can prove anything of consequence has ever come out of George Bush or any in his administration which later proved to be the truth?

Rabbit is just guessing here but doubts anyone has got a thing which will be important enough not to be laughed out of cyberspace or totally disproven by Rabbit and many others who will eat you alive if you try and pass off any slippery tricks of avoidance. Straight up or shut up. No Bush-speak. We have time to talk about Bush-love if that’s your choice, but not to dance around the central theme of the battle in which we have all come to play our part.

Should George W. Bush and his recognisable Junta, be allowed to maintain control of your country, your only country at this juncture in time. When to all intents and purposes your country seems to be falling under the Jackboot of Martial Law, followed by Chaos and Tyrany.

You know in your heart that you have no “FREEDOMS” left. You have been sloganising and bullshitting to yourselves for so long. Nobody except a dwindling percentage of Americans and a handfull of Aussies and Brits, thinks America has anything of value left to offer even it’s own citizens.

You not only cannot see what is happening on your bloody TV sets, now, finally right there where you always said was the only place you would believe it. You still don’t believe it.

Rabbit knows why you don’t believe it. Rabbit always knew the awesome depth of the delusions of HUMANS. It is one of the things which makes them so fascinating to ET races for those who are interested. (This comment was above your head if you didn’t have a moment of epiphany upon reading it)

Rabbit knows why you cannot see the truth now on your TV’s. If your black and poor it probably seems a lot closer and more scary. If you are not poor and black then it must be even harder to imagine yourself in there.

Some of you are waiting to see your own house on TV before you realise you are in that same world that is being so imperfectly imparted to you via that stupid, electronic box and its peripheral Newspapers and Radio lackeys.

Even when the troops are marching past your doors to enforce a daily curfew you will, still be on here telling us how you are glad they are protecting your freedoms and even if things are not perfect they will be. If only people stopped resisting.

Not the evil terrorists who you know are just plain evil. Your brave soldiers are killing them over in faraway countries to stop them overruning you in your homes.

Stay safey locked up in your Nanny sate with your Patriotic Acts, and your endless, vacuus, often self defeating slogans.

Nothing you people say makes any sense any more. Shall I list the last Ten Bushisms Rabbit has heard? Several of them on this very site. Worthy of the Sheik of strangled syntax himself.

The thing is guys you are not living in a vacuum, (or a vacuum tube LCD display). these things we are debating are not merely theory. They relate to verything real there is. Stop arguing and debating, find the right questions to ask, then for all our sakes, work together to find the answer. If we are all 99% the same, (see Rabbit’s other rants) then why should the TRUE facts not lead to the TRUE answer. If the answer is not to be found in your FACTS, then you are using the wrong facts or asking the wrong question. How should a search for truth become ever more complicated which is all you HUMANS do when you argue without separating your facts from opinions and recognising the difference.

Reflecting upon Stephen Neitzke’s post above, I personally hope that freelance photogs and as well a few gutsy media players simply disobey the order not to photograph. Damn their PR needs, Amendment 1 takes precedence.

When flag-draped coffins from our wars were excluded from publication, I was livid. And though it seems tangential to bring that up, the whole concept of these people cooking the data for us, trying to limit our access to information for their own agenda of sanitizing the public’s reactions in advance is appalling. True colors being revealed, as far as I’m concerned.

They love that “freedom” word, until it’s inconvenient for them.

Respect to the disobedient ones who shoot and publish their photos, in advance.

think4yourself,

Thank you for the standard right-wing guff.I was wondering when I would be called"liberal" as an insult.Coming from Republicans and their crypto-fascist policies,that’s a compliment.

Still,despite the delays after hurricane Charlie,you did get relief sooner than New Orleans.Where your area is was a bit vague.Then again,leave it to the far-right/way-wrong to use vagaries when trying to win an argument,like bad salesmen.

The fact that this was a category five hurricane should have immediately set off klaxons with the Bush team.It didn’t.Just like Al-Qaeda in 2001,Bush knew of an inevitable threat and when it hit,he sat around and waited.

Thirteen percent of Americans don’t blame Bush.By right-wing logic,or lack of,and mimicing their ability to twist facts to suit their goal,that means eighty-seven percent of Americans DO blame Bush.

think4yourself?

I don’t think so! 

As expected,the far-right/way-wrong has slid into their second argument"You can’t blame Bush.He’s doing the best he can!"Unfortunately,given the delay of his response,to say nothing of him crippling FEMA to help fund tax cuts for the rich,his"best"is nowhere near good enough.

Had this been Clinton:

Similarities:people would be dead,the opposition would gripe about not getting the aid there sooner.

Differences:there would have been some kind of a plan beyond the faith-based initiative that the hurricane would lessen in intensity before it hit,relief would not have taken four days,and Republicans would be saying that Katrina is a ploy to draw attention away from Monica.

In addition to aid to New Orleans,might i recommend we send velcro gloves to Bush so he doesn’t drop the next ball.

I see think4yuorself was addressing Lberal in stead of me.My bad.Still,Republicans are proponents of crypto-fascism.

After they privatize our government,then they’ll break out the colored shirts and armbands.

One last thing,what does anyone want to bet that for all the money given to rebuild the citiy and help the people,at least twice as much will be given to help the oil companies.The amount of which and how it was used will not have to be disclosed,of course--national security.Audits only embolden the terrorists.Does anyone want to speculate that Halliburton will be given some sort of contract with an undisclosed.Gee,from the right perspective,you really can make lemons into lemonade!

my bad

13% DO blame Bush
38% blame noone
25% blame local
18% blame FED

i was on my way to bed

check the link

09/11 - New York suffered a major attack with no warning, with 3000 dead and destruction of two of the most prominent building in the world.  Under the inspired and inspiring leadership of Mayor Guiliani and with the strong support of Governor Pataki, police and firemen led a heroic response, injured were dispatched to medical sites, and the damage was contained and cleaned up.  There was major support and involvement by the citizens of New York in caring for the injured and cleaning up the mess.

Florida Hurricanes, 2004 - An unprecedented four hurricanes hit Florida in 2004, resulting in 49 deaths and much destruction.  Emergency plans and evacuations were put in effect under Governor Bush, and deaths were limited.

Katrina, Mississippi, 2005 - Governor Barbour initiated emergency procedures and called out the National Guard on August 26, three days before Katrina made a direct hit on Mississippi.  Damage was total in some of the Gulf Coast communities, and final deaths have not been tallied, but evacuations were prompt and effective.

Katrina, Louisiana, 2005 - With a Cat 5 hurricane bearing down, Governor Blanco and New Orleans Mayor Nagin delayed taking action until called by President Bush on August 27.  On the morning of August 28, 24 hours before landfall, Mayor Nagin called for an evacuation and 80% of the residents of New Orleans got out ahead of the storm.  With such short notice from the Governor and the Mayor, normal emergency steps were not undertaken: school and city buses were not mobilized, stocks of food and water were not pre-positioned, and sandbags and emergency equipment were not mobilized at the levees.  All these items are spelled out in the New Orleans emergency procedures, but the local officials that were responsible activated none of them.  People who were without transportation went to the Convention Center and the domed stadium, where there was chaos: no food, no water, no crowd control, no preparation of any sort.  Thugs and looter roamed the city.  Some of the New Orleans Police (designated first responders) responded by going AWOL and some joined the looters.  After President Bush had stepped in and urged Governor Blanco and Mayor Nagin to take action in accordance with their own emergency procedures, Blanco, Nagin, Democrats in Congress, and every Liberal with access to a computer decided that the hurricane and the poor response to the hurricane were all Bush’s fault.

All the state and local officials in the above narrative are Republicans, except for Governor Blanco and Mayor Nagin in Louisiana, who are Democrats.

Now do you understand why voters keep electing Republicans over Democrats?

Scorp is repeating a GOP talking point when he says the reason why Blanco declared Louisiana and New Orleans a disaster area was because of a call from George Bush. The original “evidence” for this claim was in AP article that merely pointed out that shortly before the press conference Bush spoke with Governor Blanco. The conservative blogosphere then distorted the assertion to satisfy a pre-existing belief. To anyone with a brain, the press conference had already been scheduled so it is unlikely that Bush’s call minutes before provided the impetus for Blanco to make such a large decision. Rather, it is MUCH more likely that Blanco had already made the decision to declare her state a disaster area BEFORE Bush’s call. The only major news network to make scorp’s accusation, FOX News. How surprising.

Furthermore, school buses are meant for CHILDREN passengers, not adults. To fill a school bus with adults would dramatically alter the weight of the vehicle, requiring specialized operating permits for drivers and additional training. Not likely that the city of New Orleans could have trained several hundred drivers in a couple of days with existing resources.

Finally, the Department of Homeland Security proclaims on its own website that it will take the lead in coordinating disaster relief efforts. As soon as Bush declared Louisiana, Mississippi, and Alabama a federal disaster area, he accepted the responsibility of the relief and restoration of order efforts.

Case closed.

liberal,

The G.O.P.and their mean machine have received their programming,as evidenced by the posts above.It’s going to do about as much good argung with them as it would arguing with a soda machine that took your money.If only they were as good at organizing relief as they are at organizing their spin when they mess up.

I know why people vote Republican over Democrat,if you trust the election results.

The Republicans are better at creating propaganda.Most con-artists work hard at perfecting their craft.It just pains me to see so many people dead because this administration spends so much more effort on wording than working.

Liberal said,

“school buses are meant for CHILDREN passengers, not adults”

What?

When I played football in HS we used school buses.  We were the same weight as adults.

Nice try.

think4yourself: Then your driver had an additional license and supplemental training. Only a limited number of drivers have such qualifications. Your anecdotal evidence STILL does not invalidate my initial claim.

CNN recorded Governor Blanco’s actual statement concerning Bush’s phone call as follows:

“Just before we walked into this room, President Bush called and told me to share with all of you that he is very concerned about the citizens. He is concerned about the impact that this hurricane would have on our people. And he asked me to please insure that there would be a mandatory evacuation of New Orleans.”

Later that evening, Governor Blanco spoke with Larry King about Bush’s phone call. She told King that the president “Was glad to hear that the mayor had already decided to do a mandatory evacuation.”

Did you hear that scorp? Would you kindly sit down?

Liberal -

“Scorp is repeating a GOP talking point when he says the reason why Blanco declared Louisiana and New Orleans a disaster area was because of a call from George Bush.”

Nice try, Liberal.  Here is the quote.

“Gov. Kathleen Blanco, standing beside the mayor at a news conference, said President Bush called and personally appealed for a mandatory evacuation for the low-lying city, which is prone to flooding.”

http://www.nola.com/newsflash/louisiana/index.ssf?/base/news-18/1125239940201382 2.xml&storylist=louisiana

So Liberal, are you going to believe me, or your lying eyes?  And just out of curiosity, I would be interested to see “a GOP talking point” that I have copied from.  Surely it wouldn’t be too much trouble to document your weird assertion.

“Furthermore, school buses are meant for CHILDREN passengers, not adults.”

Think has commented on this, but there are other things to be considered.  The New Orleans Hurricane Emergency Plan called for city buses and school buses to be mobilized and used to evacuate people who had no other transportation.  Quite apart from Mayor Nagin’s failure to activate the Emergency Plan, do you think the Emergency Plan was built around the use of inadequate buses?  Since buses for high school students are clearly sufficient for adults, are you telling me that there is a separate class of identical buses built to lower specifications that are to be used exclusively for younger children?  And do you really believe that there are separate classes of Chauffeur’s Licences for school buses, depending on the age of the children being driven?

“As soon as Bush declared Louisiana, Mississippi, and Alabama a federal disaster area, he accepted the responsibility of the relief and restoration of order efforts.”

Is that why some of the NOPD went AWOL, and some of them joined the looters?  Why didn’t the police and fireman go home on 09/11, and in Florida, and in Mississippi when a federal disaster was declared?

One final question, Liberal.  Are you a Karl Rove plant, sent to further screw up the pathetic Liberal efforts to discredit President Bush?

How pathetic it is the denial of people who feel that any legitimate criticism of George Bush is an attempt to discredit the man.  What nonsense.  The man has no credibility to begin with....and his statement that no one could have predicted the breeches in the levees is all the proof you need about the administration that also couldn’t have predicted the use of planes as weapons on 9/11.

The saddest part of all this is the thought of what this world...and New Orleans might look like today IF Bush had not been pushed into office by the complicit and corrupt corporate media.  What if the levees had been shored up because there was no George Bush to take the funding away from the Corps of Engineers and divert it to Iraq.  What if there had been no Iraq war, and thousands of people - including our own troops, were still alive?

Read this and understand: Shaming the Devil…
CLICK HERE

Scorp, I am not saying that there is a separate group of buses that are used for just ransporting adults or eople above a certain age. Thanks for putting words in my mouth.

What I DID say was that the increased weight of the school bus requires an altogether separate driving approach, additional training and another license.

Regardless of New Orleans’ evacuation plan, you have yet to refute the fundamental charge that it is the federal government’s responsibility to lead the disaster recovery effort and assist in the evacuation of areas at risk of destruction. DHS is obligated by law to do this, but failed.

How ‘bout them apples?

What if we all just lived in peace and harmony? What if Saddam had seen the errors of his ways, and began making restitution to his victims? What if Katrina had just dissipated?

Never mind. What if’s are pretty stupid. . .

I find it so humorous that racist Rupublicans come to this site and actually expect that their lies will change anyones mind.

Bush golfed while New Orleans drowned.
Bush birthday partied while New Orleans died.

That’s all I need to know to understand compassionate conservatism.

Reminds me of the worst of the Roman Empire, Nero fiddled while Rome burned.

Yes, if only Bush had saved New Orleans. But then again, us racists really wanted to drown all the poor black folk, the “secret” is out. Sure, that’s the ticket. And certainly the city and state officials did their valiant best, but were stymied all the way by the evil Repubs. . .

Geez. Jon does it really make it easier for you to pretend that those who think differently are caricatures? Perhaps there might really be more than one side to the story.  . .???:

Liberal,

I will admit I do not know how NO handles certification for bus drivers, but in every town I have lived in the elementary, middle and high schools started at different times.  This is because they use the SAME drivers and buses to pick up all the kids.  So your weight and class of drivers license theory is BS.

Think

Because of this unfortunate inncident, everyone once again, have been exposed to the reality of what People of Color and The Poor experience at the hands of politians and the Rich and Powerful.  And again it will be just a mere conversation about the discriminitive practices of our elective officials.  You act as if this is new or an isolated incident.  Haven’t you acknowledged what Poor people have experiecned since the beginning of time?  So why should a delayed responce from our (Somebodies) officials cause you wonder?  Look at the living condition of each community.  Statistics have shown that Mississippi and New Orleans have the highest poverty rate in the nation.  So is it any wonder that they received “The Usual” treatment?  People, no matter what happens the lies and excuses that will follow, will only reflect the truth of our government, it only serves thoes that they can benifit from or promote their careers and financial indeavors.

Thinky and Scorpy, Rabbit thought you pair had stopped mating, but here you are hard at it again. Rabbit warns Thinky that Scorpy is way beneath you in intellect and is frankly quite a liability to any argument he espouses. Rabbit has some work to do but will be back to put Scorpy back into his box. Anybody who has seen the Unnatural Disaster thread will understand. They may also notice as has Rabbit that you have progressed a little bit in articulating things and you powers of reason give some indication they are about to awaken.

DH Boys if you can’t get over your Bush-love frenzy, at least don’t underestimate the sense of Wwoods words. He and others have pointed out the flaws of your argument. Rabbit just has one question for you now.

Just as an aside DHs another wierd fact for you to assimilate. Neither Rabbit nor any of the millions of different varieties of “Liberals” which surround you has any less loathing for at least the top twelve members of the Junta. BushChimp is a foul, psychotic, lunatic. Cheney is a vile, stinking sack of evil and the Real President. Bush is not actually allowed to touch any of the buttons. He is only there to humiliate people like you who actually seem to know that he is in every way your emperor, yet are too stupid to realise that this is not something to be proud of.

On what basis should we award benefit of the doubt on Bush or any memeber of his Junta

Question:  On what basis should Bush and his JUNTA be awarded any benefit of the doubt when there exists as much doubt as there clearly does in this case?  What have they ever done right? At what time have they ever intentionally told the truth about any major action they have undertaken? The first time? Or for that matter the second third or fourth time as the case may be?

It is one question Scorpy and Thinky, THINK4YOURSELF and you may understand the Rabbit’s one question. He only need one answer to get a debate based on the simplest establishable FACT. We can begin with one thing.

Rabbit is intentionally avoiding the Race issue which is the heart of this thread and its Rabbit’s intention to address this in his final analysis. In the mean time we must establish actual facts and work with them. Rabbit does not give a RATS (sorry Rat) about anyone’s opinions. Once we establish what Facts if any somebody bases their opinions upon, then we can finally discover what we are actually fighting about and maybe find closure for everyone sooner than you might think.

Scorpthinky the first Bush honest act please?

BTW Scorpthinky drop in once in awhile and let us know how the search is going, and feel free to give up anytime and others will then explain what this means for your assertion that Bush does not lie.

That is after all a pretty ambitious statement to make of anyone, but is of course in keeping with your world view. All or nothing. You’re either with us or you are against us.

Damn it, the Rabbit just answered his own question. BUSHLER said that and blast if it isn’t the truth.

Does that count anybody, does that count as Bushler telling the Truth?

I haven’t been altogether comfortable with the race issue as a central theme of the scenario as it unfolded in New Orleans.  I also don’t believe that anyone ignored the flood waters *because* the majority of the inhabitants of the area were black.

What I do find interesting is how the administration is so focused on perception being reality, and how little mileage they are getting on this huge PR effort. 

If you are a black man or woman in this country, there is a high probability that you feel race played a substantial role in the response.  If I were a member of the administration, or the GOP for that matter, I would wonder why that was the case.  It is clear that they do not know the answer - or understand the question.

What has the administration done to foster any notion of unity between members of different ethnic groups, social classes or ideologies?  He really couldn’t have done less in my opinion.  Bush’s approach is really at odds with his stated identity as a uniter and not a divider. 

National prayer day?  Oh yeah, that ought to do it.

OK here goes…

I think the assertion that Bush is racist and doesn’t care about African Americans is groundless. Kanye West, though he was in the midst of a very intense emotional reaction to the obvious suffering of New Orleans citizens (hopefully non-blacks as well as blacks), was off base. And even though it might be somehow “understandable”, that doesn’t make the assertion factual or supportable by evidence. Real evidence of racism, I mean, of which I’ve seen nothing convincing connected to Mr Bush.

For that matter, the experience of being victimized by active racism, which plenty of AfAms have had, does not qualify one to make charges of racism against the president or anyone else just because of their dismal experiences. We can sympathize with their plight and work hard to correct the social and legal deficiencies that foster the racism that is still apparent in American life, but we shouldn’t think that simply being a victim qualifies one as having a clearer or more worthy perspective. Point of view should not be final consideration. Evidence should be.

The New Orleans/Gulf Coast disaster was the result of unimplemented plans, lack of forethought, appallingly slow reaction time, diversion of necessary funds and human resources, and failure to replace or supplement those resources that had been directed away from disaster preparedness (toward, for example, military commitments). Incompetence and malfeasance, arguably so. Racism? There’s not enough to back the charge.

The disaster in the Gulf Coast region says more about short-sighted approaches to taxation and an appropriate role for government than anything else. It points up the reality that the building and maintenance of infrastructure, with all the benefits derived from it, comes from investment. In fact, virtually every material necessity or creature comfort derives from that, from investment. It results from the devotion of material resources and human work to create things that allow us to overcome or mitigate the effects of powerful forces of nature that can harm human beings. The rebuilding of Japan and Germany after WWII? Investment. The interstate highway system? Investment. Effective schools v. poor ones? Same. Levees, drainage systems, and emergency plans and provisions. Same same same. It’s all about the willingness to pay, and the actions of building and re-building those things that make human life better (or in some cases, possible at all in a given locality).

I’m much more convinced by arguments that emphasize issues like the need for adequate federal taxation and allocation of revenues toward infrastructural maintenance, or the results of neglected needs like sufficient helicopter airlift capacity, or the lack of law enforcement (incl. the law and order function of national guardsmen who were transferred overseas and no new ones recruited), or bureaucratic dithering and time wasting blame-games. Those are much more convincing criticisms.

An argument that incompetence or dereliction of duty was at work could perhaps be brought, but those are charges that can be spread around very broadly indeed. If Bush carries that burden, he’s surely not alone, and he’s not even the one with the greatest burden. That one falls to local and state authorities.

(continued)

(to continue)

The aspect of racism in these events that has me much more disturbed, and for which there’s more evidence, is connected to media depictions of the victims. Blacks have been said “loot” food from flooded stores, whites “find” food in those stores. The automatic assumption that a dark complected man is “looting” when he desperately searches for something on which to survive (since no one did a damn thing for him for days after the storm!) says much more about mean-spirited popular assumptions and race-based jumping to conclusions than anything else. That’s really more of an indictment of American culture at large, and of the news industry in particular. Frankly, that’s more worrying to me than the speculation that George Bush is a hater of non-Cauc people, which really doesn’t have much back-up. His cabinet appointments alone refute that claim.

As for the rich v. poor evaluation, it will be supported to the extent that there’s evidence that wealthy regions get quick and adequate government help in the face of disaster compared to poorer regions. Floridians might have a word to say on that score. The answer is supplied by actual events on record. For that matter, the racial assertions can be supported or refuted on that basis too. What’s the pattern of response from government, when disaster hits? That tells the story.

My issues with George Bush are numerous. I didn’t vote for him either time, and his approaches to taxation, marriage rights, and war in Iraq (though not Afghanistan, which I backed) are among the things that make me wish he had not been re/elected. If he partied on while Orleanians suffered, we can say that he’s out of touch or callous, but if those are attributes of his they’re not particularly linked to ethnicity; a majority AfAm city is not an exclusively AfAm city; and everyone left behind was traumatized and damn near abandoned. But to call him racist is unproductive, unfounded, and frankly (I believe) will tend to feed an eventual Bush-favoring reaction among the public, most of whom will see no reason for such an inflammatory charge.

What are the records of past natural disasters (or other crises) during which Bush was the primary decision-maker or director of policy implementation? Is there a racial differential? Again, that will tell the story. Short of that, we might be angry with his quality of leadership and think his administration’s agenda is harmful to America and the world, but that’s not the same as racism and we shouldn’t confuse them.

GrayArea you are probably right thinks Rabbit, in one sense about the issue of race not having anything to do with the lack of help, not directly, anyway.

If we are to hypothesise that this event was in some way intentional from the point of view of the next major shift in public programming, the the race issue becomes critical from another perspective. Rabbit predicted day two that deqaths would be tens of thousands and official estimates were but a thousand. As Rabbit said then, the tragedy is that most of those people are yet to die. This is no less true this very minute.

The Army, a large invasion force for such an area even by USA usual standards. 58,000 was last number Rabbit heard. The body bags are ordered, ready for about 30,000 - 40,000. Most of those people are just stuck in the zone and trying to survive, they probably don’t know they are about to be invaded, standard US practice for invasions too, isn’t it?

In the end Rabbit expects to see the usual result. The clue to the victims being Black, is they are a minority, albeit not too far removed from the majority in “race”, being American born, for the ovveriding lesson to be lost on the populace. Poor too means they are the weakest most marginalised.

The similarities to “REAL AMERICANS” like themselves was not lost on anybody, yet Dittoheads who are mostly not poor, or Black, were able to feel safe.

It’s OK they are just poor blacks, they had nothing anyway so what have they lost?

Next will be the slightly better off crowd, or was that the lesson being perpetrated in the police assault on a Legal Rage Party in Utah recently? About 3000 mostly teenage, middle class kids probably looking a little differently at New Orleans than many of their comrades just now.

BTW Grayarea, the divide and conquer tactic is standard NWO fare. Bliar and Howard too. The Arse-licker, John Howard is probably the absolute master of splintering a nation down every concievable fault line. And a few made up ones for good measure.

Bushler has good handlers in some ways, Rabbit fears Howhard does not need them.

Kuya, your post is actually very interesting. You appear to Rabbit to have attained a firm grasp of certain essential faults with the prgram, from within the program. This is good.

Rabbit means no harm by this, almost everyone has come from within the program or is still in it. Rabbit recognises still a flaw, in your otherwise very articulate, mostly true words, (To Rabbit).

Problem comes from assumptions, certain assumptions which not sustained by facts. You always knew the Emperor had no fashiom sense, and even probably recognise his nakedness at the crucial times. Still you think the Castle is solid, it’s foundations firm. The court is in order, it just needs a change to Democrats, who surely would have done things differently. Rabbit is not so sure you ahev any reason to make that assumption. Just like the opposition party, in Britain and Oz they grumble and pontificate but never give any indication they would have handled anything much different. (why do all our multiparty systems dejenerate into two party systems?)

It is not a few small changes to who and how the country is being run, it is time to shine a light on what and who exactly is responsible for what is no longer just a series of bad luck.

Rabbit does not mean New Orleans, he is thinking USA then.

I was looking over the other thread on this site pertaining to Katrina to examine the right-wing spin.I’m not congratulating myself,but it turns out I was right.The Republicans are trying to claim victory while trying to figure out how to blame the Democrats for Katrina.The posts on this thread only confirm this--mindless drivel!

Gee,maybe I should change my posting name to Clair Voyant.No,there’s no real challenge in predicting Republican behavior.They are a simple bunch.All they need is to be able to feel good about hating an enemy.

Meanwhile,I’m still wondering what Bush’s next dropped ball will be.Maybe the next one will be
a plane carrying hurricanes will slam into a load of wmd’s that are supposed to be in a country we’re invading to help pay for another round of tax cuts for billionaire anti-abortionist supreme court justices who’ll rescue social security from illegal immigrants.Bush will then sit in his office for a week while the Fox News crowd come up with conclusive rumors that it’s all Hillary’s fault,justifying another rise in gas prices.

Sounds far-fetched?Maybe.then again,if you had asked me ten years ago if I thought anyone would sit around after our country had been attacked and delay in any way to deliver relief to a city hit by the worst hurricane in thirty years,I would have said that’s farcical.

Onward right-wing voters!
Blame it on the poor!

One other thing,

Who said it’s wrong to say that elements,or even leaders,of the republican party are racist?

Excuse me,but didn’t every bigot in america turn Republican when a Democrat broke the back of the KKK and ramrodded the civil rights acts down the throats of southerners?Ask a Klansmen,or a Christian identity follower if they vote democrat--be prepared to duck!Didn’t Bush the Elder smear Dukakis with an ad to make middle-class America afraid that if Dukakis was elected,he would unroll a big rock from in front of a cave and let out all the black rapists?In my state Jesse Helms,a republican,ran an entire election campaign based on the principle that"If’n youse vote fo’ dat black man to be da sennatuh,dem darkies be takins yo job away”.It,unfortunately,worked.People wonder why my state is always in the bottom ten percent educationally.I don’t know.

Furthermore,let’s look at the fear machine created by Fox News regarding the immigration of illegal aliens.Do we dare claim that there isn’t race involved there.Mexicans take away american jobs.Sure Sean,like you took up broadcasting because a Mexican stole the very last job picking strawberries for a buck an hour.Meanwhile Fox praises the Barney Fife Brigade,I mean the Minutemen(or is it minute men,for they are certainly lilliputian in their perspective),who protect us from hordes of minimum-wage coveting job-seekers,while ignoring the FACT--FACT!FACT!FACT!-that rich white guys are selling out the country from underneath us by exporting,not only arms,but also our jobs,to third-world countries. 

Didn’t Reagan’s most memorable lie,I mean reason,for slashing welfare rest on a made-up story of a black woman receiving dozens of welfare check under phony names.By the way,she used only three.Still...well,the nerve!

Eight thousand characters per post limits examples.

But,obviously,Republicans are not racist and are not hostile to anyone not like them,and I don’t know how these rumors get started so let’s blame the Democrats because they,not us,accuse their enemy of their own worst crime!

Hi, Wwoods. Have you checked the DU thread since last saw you there. When you have a minute check out the Final and Rabbit means final act. He promises you like it.

The surprise he leaves to last, as you must. he promises the wait will heighten the pleasure. Rabbit agress with you about the Repugs and their tactics. Fears he does the next thing will be less dropping the ball than the Bomb.

Has anybody seen Cheney about Lately.

Rabbit standing up looking about, sees something dark off in the distance.

Where is Cheney?

Don’t we seem to be short of Cheny at the moment, the EVIL WARLORD himself?

If racism is observable in a person’s speech or behavior, whether they’re a regular citizen or a power-player, then they can fairly be called racist. Part of my point was that George Bush, for all of his flaws and although I think he’s way more harm than good, just doesn’t come off as a racist. The hurricane hit where it hit and many African Americans lived there (with all their different colored neighbors) and went through hell. If an earthquake swacked the San Fernando Valley, would they get better taken care of?

I don’t know that answer but if someone thinks they do, I just ask that it be backed up.

In reference to racist attitudes being ascribed to an entire political party, I really prefer to stick to individual cases on things like this, rather than generalize to groups. I imaginatively say to myself, “Republicans are racist,” and it doesn’t ring true. I can see big money and big religion motivating them, but not racial exclusion. And really, if I start looking at history, neither big party looks anything much more than incrementally, grudgingly, glacially slow at just pushing legal and (if you like thinking this way) cosmic equality among all citizens (no, that’s people) and following through with it finally.

The system broke down for everybody, because it wasn’t tended properly, because there was a preoccupation with all the damn fighting and an unwillingness to get people to pony up if they want good services. Especially people with rafts of cash, but really everybody.

A dose of decisive service to the people they claim authority over and some forethought and follow-through from the bureacrats would help too.

There’s not even a genetic basis for race as a concept, it’s just a fucking suntan. It’s a humiliation that we’re still stuck on it.

Hey, wwoods, nice to see you again!  I’m missing my old friends Margaret, Lefty, Richard… (sigh).  Wonder what’s happened to Jack Barnes/Michael Hardesty?

Yeah - and WHY are these recent threads quite FULL of Repug trolls/defenders, and a few liberals beating them back… when they SHOULD be full of EXULTANT liberals plotting the downfall of Bush on the grounds that Katrina exposed neo-conservatism and economic neo-liberalism FOR WHAT IT IS!!!  Junk!  Every cloud has a silver lining and Katrina should mean we get rid of Bush.  Like Nero burning down Rome got rid of Nero - eventually!

Well, there’s no-one to blame but Repugs and their tax cuts for this one!

I dig this excerpt:-

“Just as an aside DHs another wierd fact for you to assimilate. Neither Rabbit nor any of the millions of different varieties of “Liberals” which surround you has any less loathing for at least the top twelve members of the Junta. BushChimp is a foul, psychotic, lunatic. Cheney is a vile, stinking sack of evil and the Real President. Bush is not actually allowed to touch any of the buttons. He is only there to humiliate people like you who actually seem to know that he is in every way your emperor, yet are too stupid to realise that this is not something to be proud of.

On what basis should we award benefit of the doubt on Bush or any memeber of his Junta"…

Hey GhostRabbit, go on like that and I might even come to like you!!

Ghost is just a vehicle , needed when there was abit of scuffle when a fight with a real dragon spilled over from the Radioactive wounds thread. All is in order again and Rabbit has found a great hunting ground for it seems infested with a strangely fascinating class of “representative” trolls.

An de fun aint done momma.

Do you want Rabbit to call any trolls out from the woodwork, he knows how to call them, even a couple of different calls to narrow dow the particular species you seek?

Actually Rabbit is a Ghost because he was, and is still for some weird reason banned, when he first landed as Rabbitvoz. His always handle.

But alas rabbit was killed in the battle with the aforementioned Dragon. Did Rabbit tell you he has bagged a Dragon and a Vampire so far? He has indeed. (Brave Rabbit)

Well anyway, Rabbit’s is never more dangerous than when they are dead, and the rest is history. Except for the somewhat annoying fact that Rabbit is still a Ghost.

All Rabbit’s words have been re-instated from whence they were plucked in such untimely yet somehow perfect fashion. This amounts to a full vindication to far stronger words than those around here which are much more restrained. Yet Why has the Rabbit not been re-born as Rabbitvoz? It is a mystery.

Never mind Rabbit is still hopping around loose the way Rabbits do. Rabbits are hard to keep anyplace long, especially - out.

Liz,

Knowing Jack/Michael/Sybil/Rumplestiltskin,I’d be willing to bet he became so full of himself that he imploded,became a singularity,and is now sucking up a nebula that drifted over his event horizon.

Isn’t it funny how merry tricksters disappear when tranparency is asked for.

I was travelling when the new security I.D. was put onto the ITT site.I would love to know what happened to cause that.Surely SOMETHING happened July 12th or 13th?

Oh. My. Gawd. If some of you would actually wake your sorry asses up, you would realize that there was plenty screwed up ALL OVER. Sure, the Feds could’ve/should’ve responded sooner.

But - and it’s NOT a “Republican talking point” - the local government is ALWAYS THE FIRST LINE OF DEFENSE in these situations. And that idiot Nagin and his “let’s just pray” counterpart Blanco didn’t enact the plans in place. It really is that simple.

I can’t believe the stupid, ridiculous crap about the school buses being “designed for children.” Not only is that patently FALSE, but you know what? In an emergency, methinks most people would skateboard their way out if that’s all they had available.

At the end of the day, the awful reality and truth is that events like this are termed “disasters” for a reason. People die, capiche? Plus, people seem to forget that NOLA wasn’t the only place hit. Shit, NOLA was left a shining kingdom of mudslides and beads compared to places like Biloxi which were virtually removed from the map.

Y’all know Biloxi, right? The place that along with casinos has huge military installations? Pray tell (as Blanco would have it) how/where are we supposed to get all these resources pronto when the military/guard facilities themselves were victims of the flooding?

Silly me… I guess that must be more “Republican talking points”....

Please share with Rabbit, children.

Is it a rare specimen, peculiar in some special way?

Rabbit nose wiggles expectantly.

g-love, Condi was saying just keep praying while the shopping bills she was a payin’

G,

I’m with you on the skateboard thread.  I could care less what certification my driver has.  If he isn’t too hammered and can get us out of town, then let’s go.

It was pretty much a melt-down at the local level, but it took most of us about a day to figure that out.  Now, if it had beed a suspected terrorist attack that had say… taken out a major levee or dam, nobody would be making excuses for the fed’s inability to cope with any local failures.

If we could get a nice independent investigation, it would be very interesting to see where the failures ocurred.  The White House is so obsessed with controlling the message that they are resisting the idea in favor of the administration investigating itself and a congressional investigation by a Republican congress.  That just smells bad.  Why even go through this exercise?  Save our money please.

Sorry, but these guys have shown that the truth and common sense are much less important than loyalty to the administration and the party.

Rabbit does not want such a worthless specimen as this one. It is sickly, runty seeming, and not likely to stand up to much of a journey. When you get it back to the farm , what do you do with it. You can’t teach it anything, won’t be domesticated and makes such a mess. Can’t do anything useful and nothing even wants to eat it so much it would go much out of it’s way for a piece.

Nope, Rabbit, munches, goes over to the stream to drink and watch the fish. Let it go.

This is not within Grayarea either, let ‘em grow bigger with somebody else’s worms thinks Rabbit.

Odd spelling of your Name there, Rabbit has only seen it twice before. Rabbits and another extra special case. Both times slips under the Radar. What is your Grey secret, if it’s not too dark?

Rabbit quiz:
Who said this:

“Why should we hear about body bags and deaths? It’s not relevant. So why should I waste my beautiful mind on something like that?”

A) Paris Hilton?
B) Barbara Bush?
C) Some other inhumane, stupid bitch, who’s good for nothing but mounting, one way or the other.

The other way? On a nice piece of Oak or Jarrah burl, cut off at about the neck with the horns pointing upwards, of course, natural like.

Rabbit wants a third share in any fish caught with his Rabbit bad Joke.

Hint? did someone ask Rabbit for a hint? The same one who said this more recently.

“What I’m hearing, which is sort of scary, is they all want to stay in Texas. 
And so many of the people in the arena here, you know, were underprivileged anyway, so this--this (chuckling slightly) is working very well for them.”

Rabbit swears he, Rabbit made it up, just then.,

After reading a few “disinformation” pieces in Rense, Rabbit noted the similarities too between the Old goat and it’s Little Bush once again.

(Hunters and collectors must always say “That was Rabbit’s Joke” if Rabbit’s joke is to be found worthy of being used again by fine people. Cheap at twice the price. Rabbit hopes)

Liberal plan for any situation involving President Bush: Ready, Fire, Aim!

Jabbar Gibson, 20, took a school bus in New Orleans, rounded up a bunch of people, including children and infants, and drove to the Astrodome in Houston.  And he did it without special training, but then, this was an emergency.  Gibson showed a lot more initiative and leadership than the Louisiana politicians who ignored their own emergency plans and left hundreds of school buses in school district parking lots, where they all flooded when the water rose.  Mr. Gibson undoubtedly has a bright future in Republican politics.

As soon as the hurricane hit, Liberals sensed an opportunity and began whining and complaining, as is their wont.  A chief complaint was that Bush wasn’t doing enough, avoiding the fact that Governor Blanco and Mayor Nagin did nothing until President Bush called them and strongly recommended that emergency procedures be implemented.  President Bush’s call was on Saturday, August 27, and Mayor Nagin finally called for an evacuation on the morning of the 28th, 24 hours before landfall and 48 hours later than the NO emergency plan demanded.  Those lost 48 hours were critical.  The first day of the alert allows people to secure their homes and businesses, and allows the city and state governments to mobilize buses and other transportation, food and water, and emergency supplies; then, if the situation warrants, the actual evacuation takes place on the second and third day.  But the emergency was not called on time and none of this preliminary work took place, and that led directly to the chaotic situation in the Superdome and throughout the city.  And it was directly due to President Bush’s urging that the evacuation was called at all; 80% of the people of New Orleans got out on time, but only barely.

Not only did President Bush persuade the Louisiana politicians to do their jobs, he called out the Coast Guard and Navy, which moved in quickly behind the storm.  The USS Bataan was on station off New Orleans on Tuesday, August 30, the day the levees broke, and was able to run a reconnaissance by helicopter on Tuesday before dark.  Then on Wednesday, the Bataan’s helicopters began moving trapped people from flooded areas and bringing in relief supplies in a 24/7 operation.  By Sunday, September 4, the Bataan’s helicopters had rescued 1613 people, delivered over fifty tons of food and emergency supplies, and delivered 8000 gallons of fresh drinking water.  In addition, the Bataan had medical parties working in New Orleans and Biloxi, and work crews in Biloxi.

After all this, on September 5, five full days after the USS Bataan began full operations in the New Orleans area, Paul Krugman, one of the dimmest of the lying Liberal dim bulbs, accused federal officials of “lethal ineptitude”, and cited the USS Bataan as an example. 

Liberals criticized President Bush for cutting the funding for the New Orleans levees, while ignoring some salient points:

·Funding for Corps of Engineer projects in Louisiana is $1.9 billion a year, which is greater (by $500 million) than for any other state.

·Funding under President Bush for five years was greater than funding for the last five years of the Clinton administration.

·Much of the USACE funding in Louisiana went to pork barrel projects for Louisiana politicians, including $748 million for a new lock on a canal with declining usage. 

·Since Katrina was a Cat 4 hurricane, and the New Orleans levees are built to cat 3 specifications, the levees were going to overflow no matter what, and would probably breach, which they did.  One levee breached after being hit by a loose barge.  Both breaches occurred in areas that had been upgraded.

(cont)

Liberals have shot without aiming so often that everyone recognizes how erratic and unfocused they are.  Lying Liberals are so determined to undermine President Bush’s credibility that they say anything that sounds good at the moment, but they ignore their own tattered honesty and integrity.  Most Americans recognize that Liberals were lying when they attempted to steal the 2000 election, and they have been lying ever since.  They lie when they accuse President Bush of lying and when they say he is stupid.  They lie when they accuse him of being racist.  They are lying now about Bush’s role in Katrina.

Most Americans are convinced that Liberals are rude, crude, uncouth, and ugly, BESIDES being vile and repulsive.  And the Liberals did it to themselves.  And they keep losing elections by worse margins.

g-love Rabbit thinks you are looking well. Rabbit has taken the liberty of updating himself before putting his foot in his mouth, in his eagerness to bag himsdelf a new critter.

Rememebered how outraged you were on the DU business. Rabbit was not surprised, had heard of it before, does this mean this was news to G then? If so interesting, and good.

Bush is not Rascist, he’ll screw a Blackfeller over as easy as a white, man or woman.

Rabbit has a plan for any situation involving President Bush: Ready, Fire, Aim!

It might give the game away about our liberal leanings though comrades.

Since Jabbar Gibson, 20, took a school bus in New Orleans, rounded up a bunch of people, including children and infants, and drove to the Astrodome in Houston.  And he did it without special training, but then, this was an emergency. 
---- Where does one begin.

This is all true scorp.

Mr. Gibson undoubtedly has a bright future in Republican politics.

-----This is open to debate. His name sounded distinctly un-republican to Rabbit.

This is a bold and yet somehow, subtle plan.
Perhaps the Repugs actualy trained the driver in all these extraordinary skills not normally found amoung people of Jabbars ancestry and social caste.

“And he did it without special training,”

-----Dam, he saw that one coming. and countered Rabbit at the gate.

In Oz we have Sheep dogs who can round up huge mobs of sheep, but of course they do need special training.

Gibson showed a lot more initiative and leadership than the Louisiana politicians

------or Bush or any of the government or administaration from top to bottom, but that was what you meant wasn’t it Scorp?

who ignored their own emergency plans and left hundreds of school buses in school district parking lots,

---Under guard, from any attempt ot use or distribute anything by Fema and Nat Guard

and locked them outwhere they all flooded when the water rose.

-----deh should a built deyself’s a bigol Ark if they was so worried about gettin flooded and all. Besides, everyone knows that blacks can dig better than whites because their skin is the same colour as dirt see? So wusn’t they fixing the dams, I mean those levis theyselfs.

they got too many levis anyway, they only need one pair of levees they only wash once a montha nway and they runaround in the nude anytime and show their breasts ans swear.

Rabbit is starting to understand you better see scorp.

Scorp what did you think of the Cuban president as primary responsible, evacuated 1.5 million of his people, with less warning, together with their familes, pets and fridges stoves etc.  Evacuatted to prepared shelters stafed by doctors, nurses, medicine and food etc. Army was used to secure the area from looters. 20, 000 homes were blown away, full category 5 hurricane with 160 mph winds.

Guess how many died, during the Hurricane?  None.

How many died in the aftermath and cleanup? None.

Their essential ideals are being safeguarded by Fidel Castro, as this is the job the Cubans elected him to do, in their own Cuban way, which you distrust, because it has no coca-cola stickers on it. They love their courageous and yes flawed, but overall a worthy leader for any land.

Rabbit would like to compare Bushler and Fidel Castro.

To which of these leaders would you entrust your safety and the well being of your family?

Either as a president of the country, a school headmaster, or a baby sitter.?

I love the neo-cons bush stole the election in 2000 and lied about it.Who is this goof ball scorp. No matter how bad bush screws up the the neo-con’s will defend him. I guess bush had to shit can his buddy brown from fema after he said he was doing a good job. Will bush admit he made a mistake? Will the neo-con’s admit bush make a mistake? I think not. I loved channey’s interview on the news when the guy says fuck you mr. channey then channey smiles becuase that was his catch frase in the senate.

It’s a troubling position for Bush, already suffering the lowest approval ratings of his presidency.

The mistakes have come one upon the other.

Even as Katrina was bearing down on the Gulf Coast that Sunday night and early Monday, Aug. 28-29, and the National Hurricane Center was warning of growing danger, the White House didn’t alter the president’s plans to fly from his Texas ranch to the West to promote a new Medicare prescription drug benefit.

By the time Bush landed in Arizona that Monday, the storm was unleashing its fury on Louisiana and Mississippi. The president inserted into his speech only a brief promise of prayers and federal help.

He continued his schedule in California, and he didn’t decide until the next day that he should return to Washington. But it took him another day to get there, as he flew back to Texas to spend another night at his home before leaving for the White House.

Once the president was in Washington, the criticism only intensified.

While a drowned New Orleans descended into lawless misery, Bush delivered remarks from the Rose Garden that were seen as flat and corporate.
In a television interview, Bush said — mistakenly — that nobody anticipated the breach of the levees in a serious storm.

Even Monday’s trip to the region was a redo, hurriedly arranged by the White House over the weekend after lukewarm response to Bush’s first in-person visit to the Gulf Coast last Friday.

Bush had raised eyebrows on his first trip by, among other things, picking Sen. Trent Lott, R-Miss. — instead of the thousands of mostly poor and black storm victims — as an example of loss. “Out of the rubbles of Trent Lott’s house — he’s lost his entire house — there’s going to be a fantastic house. And I’m looking forward to sitting on the porch,” Bush said with a laugh from an airplane hangar in Mobile, Ala.

In the same remarks, Bush gave FEMA chief Brown — the face for many of the inadequate federal response — a hearty endorsement. “Brownie, you’re doing a heck of a job,” Bush said.

Later in Biloxi, Miss., Bush tried to comfort two stunned women wandering their neighborhood clutching Hefty bags, looking in vain for something to salvage from the rubble of their home. He kept insisting they could find help at a Salvation Army center down the street, even after another bystander had informed him it had been destroyed.

And at his last stop that day, at the airport outside of New Orleans, Bush lauded the increasingly desperate city as a great town because he used go there and “enjoy myself — occasionally too much.”

Unlike his galvanizing appearance in the rubble of the World Trade Center just days after the 2001 attacks, Bush has stayed far from the epicenter of New Orleans’ suffering. His only foray into the city was to its edges to watch crews plugging one of the breached levees on Friday.

On Monday, he skipped the hardest-hit coastal areas entirely, choosing instead to visit Baton Rouge, the state capital about 80 miles northwest of New Orleans, which sustained no damage. He also went to Poplarville, Miss., to walk the streets of a middle-class neighborhood that seemed to suffer little more than snapped trees, a couple off-kilter carport roofs and a downed power line or two.

White House spokeswoman Dana Perino said the president avoided New Orleans to stay out of the way of search-and-rescue operations.

“It’s going to be almost impossible to overcome the perception about the president that he didn’t show compassion and didn’t get control of the policy failures,” American University political scientist James Thurber said. “The vivid images that are coming across the television are really destroying his image as a leader.”

White House counselor Dan Bartlett said the president and his aides are unconcerned for now about the unrelenting criticism.
All that voted for bush is going to have to live with your mistake.

It’s about race, as a part of, it’s about working poor, disabled poor and elderly poor. New Orleans as most urban centers is largly black as percentage as well as those centers being largly poor.

I’m from the Detroit area, white suburbia. The history of rascism in this area has been well documented. This area basically invented the term “white flight” as those with money (whites) left a thriving Detroit for the great unknown of the suburbs in waves (several migration out of Detroit).

Most know of the 1967 Detroit riot, but Detroit also had a huge riot in 1943. There was deep animosity of the purposeful ghettoization of Detroit neighborhoods. Even today there are remants of the wall/fencing around the only areas blacks were allowed to be crowded into to live.

The problem with white flight is that it takes the wealth out of the city to the suburbs. The tax base disappears in such a rapid fashion that it becomes hard to maintain simple services to those that remain. And the remaining now majority (black) had really no choice in two ways. One, many new suburbs played the same old game of refusing to sell/rent to minorities and two, even if a suburb opened up the financial means of the working poor blacks was not there.

This still goes on today. A realitor friend has told me of many times he runs into homeowners who refuse to sell to blacks. We still find suburban apartment complexes that do the same. Although illegal, it can be very difficult to prove.

White flight results in bright shiny new infrastructure, new schools and a new community as a whole. Then I listen to these established new communities complain about Detroit schools and don’t understand that their migration was from an old infrastructure, old schools. It takes money to revamp an inner city, but there is no money to be found except in the suburbs not interested in giving up their money for a city they no longer live in.

Whites (such as me) can never fully understand the hate FELT by blacks from whites in such a long historical timeframe that STILL exists today. I certainly do my best to empathize with blacks, but no way can I understand.

Just three weeks ago, I pull into a gas station and while in line to pay, the cashier is relating an incident that had just happened minutes before I arrive. Some woman had reached into another car and stolen a cell phone. The white guy in front of me (completing his transaction) interrupts the story and asks “Was she black?” The answer a quick “no” and the cashier finishes the story.

The questioner leaves, I pay quickly, leave and catch up to him and ask him “Why did you ask if she was black?” Caught him, because he drops his head, mumbles and walks away. He knew, I knew it, he was a rascist. And to top it off he gets into his truck with the Bush/Cheney bumper sticker. This is a working class town, suburb of Detriot.

I can’t begin to count the number of times I hear the “blacks are lazy” routine or “stupid nigger” crap from co-workers even today in my job in an integrated work environment. And almost without a fault, the ones that use that terminology are actually the ones I would rate as the laziest and stupidest where I work. They as prejudiced whites can’t seem to get it out of their head that they themselves are the problem, not who they think are the problem, blacks.

In the Detroit suburbs we still get cross burning or more common hate literature in the mail or directly on someones house as graffiti.

The inner cities of America need our full support in rebuilding efforts to rival what will happen in New Orleans, what we did for Japan and Germany, and what we are doing in Iraq. We need to “Marshall Plan” many of our largest cities. Why? Because of the long and ongoing prejudice that resulted in the decay of these cities.

In my last post, I wish I could have brought home the point of how many of the white rascist are Bush supporters. Not all Republicans are rascists by any means, but many of those non-rascists refuse to acknowledge that their party has become the home of rascists.

It certainly could be argued that Bush who has won his two presidential elections with slim margins in popular vote and electorial college vote, might not be president without rascist support.

It’s the dirty secret of the party. They have nearly acknowledged such as they have began a public effort to bring more African-Americans into the party. But then New Orleans came along, and that effort hit a wall.

Don’t think that blacks (and this Euro-American white working class guy) haven’t noticed Bush’s concern for rich, elite Republican Trent Lott’s house (of several) before anyone else’s. He certainly didn’t promise a future porch sit-down with anyone else.

But I don’t perceive any distaste with that from Republicans or Republican hierarchy. I have to think Bush was playing to a portion of his base. A base he has (wink, wink) joked about, “the haves and have mores.”

Bush continues to polarize because he knows this is the way his party wins. Why? Because the poor and working class poor (where the black population has its highest percentage) vote in the smallest percentages. And of course the haves and have mores are where his campaign money comes from.

And here is where my disappointment with the Democratic Party comes in. A portion of the political elite have decided to compete with the Republican political elite for those haves and have mores, thus disdaining that population of voters who don’t vote in large percentages. Is it any wonder that blacks and whites from the poor and working poor have felt let down by the Democratic Party. Over the last decade or so, these voters care even less about elections because they don’t have choices that they can relate to. Rich Kerry or rich Bush, what’s the difference to the working poor. Notalotta.

That portion of the Democrats can be named. It is mainly in the Democratic Leadership Council (DLC) who have issues and policies many times not much different from Republicans. Oh, they may not be “as bad as” the Republicans at this point, but if their trend continues, it won’t be long before I’ll probably consider them as one and the same pursuing policies that have rascist overtones, if they somehow out-Republican the Republicans.

And it all comes down to money needed to win elections. The haves and have mores are now so dominant in the total wealth in America, that the rest of us can’t begin to raise the kind of dollars to compete with them. And even if we could, the country has become so polarized (by social issues) that those dollars just get divided up into the two parties.

Further the working class more and more consider campaign contributions as a waste of money, because politicians do little to nothing to alleviate our economic concerns, like heathcare costs, medicaid, medicare, social security, living wage, etc. A $50 contribution is needed money for the working class, and handing it to politicians who only pay attention to them at election time is thought of as a bad decision.

The working class sees the election process as nothing but corrupt (polling shows this) and the facts are, it is. At election time rich, elite whitey forks over big money to rich, elite, whitey politician and then come time to write policy, rich, elite, whitey gets most of the benefits.

Our election process has become a huge masterbation of money that benefits mostly the rich. If we could take that vast amount of election cash and instead apply it directly to inner cities, we could go a long way to address class and race issues.

Race is a subgroup of class in this country. At some point though as the rich continue to get richer, class is going to explode as an issue.

Scorp
is
Karl Rove
thinks
Rabbit, since you ask Brian.

Jon B as always a very shiny mind. If only all had the clarity and vision.

Rabbit would like to take what you have said and add the following.

Since the dis-enfranchised “have nots”, in American society (as all societies) actually represent by far the majority, it would seem so easy for them to mobilise their masses and displace the controlling elite.

They do not. It is not merely because many of the poorest don’t vote. Many of the working class poor don’t vote.
...........
Rabbit is the working poor, he has a small factory and barely manages to pay bills and feed his family. In Oz we have compulsory voting. Rabbit and others are so pissed off we still eften defy the Must vote.
Rabbit says if you tell me I must choose between being hit with a spade or just a big stick,
--------then you choose buster.
BECAUSE YOU NEED TO KNOW WHICH WILL PROTECT YOU.  Prepare to die scum!
...............

The HAVES with their virtual free reign to do what they will with public perception, are only able to keep their power by ensuring that the majority of the people, who clearly , and they know this,
.................HATE THEM. 
They try to tell each other this is because the majority are jealous of them, that if they had as much as themselves they would be just the same.
BULSHIT.
Rabbit could use wealth and remain Rabbit. Rabbit could never be comfortable having more than most everybody though. Rabbit is not bigger than any other Rabbit, why does he need more than ten times any other Rabbit. Ten is OK if Rabbit is very fat and greedy. One Hundred times more than the average while some Rabbits are strving, would make Rabbit an accomplice to starving others. Because there is never excess until everyone has enough.

The Haves never admit the truth, even to themselves, that nobody envys them more than we just hate them for being so greedy and heartless that they will take thousands times more than everybody and not just let others die, but even make them die to get so much for themselves.

-----So why don’t the majority use their yet to be revoked power at the ballot-box?

Simply because they are not able to agree on doing anything together with various other assorted groups within their number who they have been convinced are their enemy..
...Through clever wording and blatant exploitation of the lowest common denominators the ‘HAVES, have convinced most people that some group or groups are the real obstacle to their own happiness.
...Race is the first and most obvious that springs to mind. That is too easy because their is a tribal remnant to human behaviour which is easily exploited. Especially by those in the know. Want to know why Bushler is not a Racist? and most here have to their credit noticed this? There is actually a much more fundamental reason (don’t ask), but simply because he knows that people are not different racially, he uses this fault line in others while recognising it’s artifial nature. To him there are but two races of Human, The HAVES and the HAVE NOTS.

Other fault lines can effectively splinter opposition but in Australia too the Race card has been played much more subtly and well by a vastly more sophisticated contolling elite.

---Don’t look now but our lot look to be the ultimate NWO government. They are so smooth, its spooky.

What’s happening with the Repugnikans/Freepers/Christo-fascists/Fill-In-Blanks is that, in the style and manner and way of Rome, our country is ending, it’s dying; faster than I thought possible.  It is gasping for breath NOW.  Unless we all look into this abyss with eyes open, realize it needs resuscitation NOW, we WILL open our eyes to f-word government in the not-too-distant future.  Already the odor is strong, wafting from the south—unless that is rotting flesh from NOLA; could be, come to think of it—next comes the disgusting sight of its ugly head, rearing. Funny how that works.

I look around, already I don’t recognize the place, and I KNOW it will get worse. 

This disaster (bad star) IS REALLY a disaster, and unless we want to jackboot it into the future, we had ALL better get out there, every human of age, and get REALLY active to save, well, it all.  You know, like we’re doing CPR on an unconscious body, hoping it’s not going to become a corpse.

Disaster relief for me: ITT, the check’s in the mail.  See above. See home page.  See the light.

Ibyland --

What you want can be done, if we act fairly quickly.  Working in the states, away from corportism’s zone of national govt control, there are 17 states in which the people have the CAI (constitutional amendment initiative).  One of the immense powers available to the CAI is the reduction of the state legislatures from corrupt political-party-controlled bicamerals to nonpartisan unicamerals, on the successful 1934 Nebraska model.  With the people forcing nonpartisan unicamerals in about 4-6 states, political sophistication of the civil society will advance from its present stone-stupid to Reform-Era-competent.  Along the way, helping to increase the level of political sophistication, we have many other courses of citizen action that corporatism’s govt will be unable to stop.  All we need now is about a hundred million Americans who think like you and I.

Your war of independance was fought when 4% of the population became angry enough to risk their lives.
Maybe it is not how many will support change, but how much they want to change. Enough to die?
..
4%

GhostRabbit & Ibyland --

My “hundred million” was hyperbole.  All we need for openers is the number of citizens in any one CAI state who are required to formulate and file the CAI petition to reduce bicameral to nonpartisan unicamreral.  That’s about FOUR.  As the CAI’s civics lesson proceeds through the petition process in just that one state, growth in numbers of like-thinkers across the country will, I think, be astronomical.  Point is, civil society has the power to change this mess around, but its political sophistication is so stone-stupid that hardly anyone understands.  If you’re a like-thinker, see the index page of my newly established “TRG Polity—nonpartisan online community for direct democracy and True Republican Governance” at trg-polity.org.

Stephen N.

I quickly checked out trg-polity.org and I like what I see. I’ve long tinkered in my mind about direct democracy and have wondered what steps need to be taken to get there. I’ve always thought that the powers that be would certainly go down fighting to stop it or control it.

I’ve thought in terms of beginning at local levels experimenting with internet voting that allows all citizens to have a direct vote on community issues. With success, town councils and mayors become less powerful and instead become those that must carry out the wishes of the community. At any rate, I’ll study more in depth in the coming weeks the site.

Are you aware of what CAI might have in Michigan? We do have ballot propositions, but those are very cumbersome. It takes a high percent of signatures and if a proposal does get on the ballot, then here comes the big money to drown the issue through 30 second TV spots.

I’ve always had this anti-authoritarian viewpoint, these days they call me an anarchist, which has that violent sound to the word. Every time I heard New Orleans described as anarchy, I cringed because that’s not my definition of anarchy. On the other hand when I heard the word, I thought “So what. The elitist government let them down.”

It didn’t bother me one bit seeing people loot food, water, diapers, etc. That was survival. I didn’t much care about the TVs, jewelery, etc. either. That was a little of just plain long term pent up anger. Sure, there were those that were just plain criminals, all societies have them. Criminals exist in deep red areas in the US as much as blue. But then the total amount of looting of non-essential items never came close in dollars that corporate elites loot from Americans on a regular basis. All th