Hurricane Katrina is being touted as a turning point in American politics. Much has also been made of the press’ outrage over the abandonment of New Orleans. But will journalists’ rediscovered mission to question authority continue? As I noted last month, the press had already shifted into a much more querulous and combative post-post-9/11 mode that the president, who claims… return to article
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Reader Comments (35)Page 1 of 1 pagesThis is amazing.
Governor Blanco and Mayor Nagin, looking down the throat of a Cat 5 hurricane, did nothing until the President of the United States called them and urged them to declare an evacuation.
The evacuation was called just one day before landfall, even though New Orleans own hurricane procedures defined a 72-hour evacuation procedure, including use of city buses and school buses to carry people who had no other transportation. The buses were never mobilized, and ended up sitting in water up to their spark plugs.
Not only did President Bush persuade the Louisiana politicians to do their jobs, he called out the Coast Guard and Navy, which moved in quickly behind the storm. The USS Bataan was on station off New Orleans on Tuesday, August 30, the day the levees broke, and was able to run a reconnaissance by helicopter on Tuesday before dark. Then on Wednesday, the Bataan’s helicopters began moving trapped people from flooded areas and bringing in relief supplies in a 24/7 operation. By Sunday, September 4, the Bataan’s helicopters had rescued 1613 people, delivered over fifty tons of food and emergency supplies, and delivered 8000 gallons of fresh drinking water. In addition, the Bataan had medical parties working in New Orleans and Biloxi, and work crews in Biloxi.
After all this, on September 5, five full days after the USS Bataan began full operations in the New Orleans area, Paul Krugman, one of the dimmest of the lying Liberal dim bulbs, accused federal officials of “lethal ineptitude”, and cited the USS Bataan as an example.
The Old Media reported up to 10,000 deaths from Katrina, and 25,000 body bags were delivered. The actual death count is now 1069. (September 26.)
The Katrina fiasco was not the first calamity that has occurred since President Bush was elected: 09/11, the four major hurricanes that hit Florida in 2004, Katrina hit Mississippi as well as Louisiana, and Rita hit between Texas and Louisiana last week. Each of these problems was dealt with professionally and capably, by Republican city, state, and national officials, in fact. Only in corrupt, Democratic Louisiana where local officials failed to take action was there a problem, and it was all President Bush’s fault, obviously.
Throughout the Katrina ordeal, the media exaggerated the problems, minimized the successes, and blamed everything on President Bush, including the hurricane itself and the failure of the levees, even though the levees were only designed to contain a Cat 3 hurricane.
As the truth came out and perspective brought focus, it became obvious that the Old Media was lying, again, in order to discredit President Bush. But the media is in a race to the bottom. The Liberal press is losing readers and revenue, and network television is losing viewers and revenue. The New York Times just last week announced a layoff of 4% (500 people) of its news personnel. This follows declining income at a number of the Liberal outlets. And President Bush’s ratings rose.
So, what do you think? Will the media realize the futility of lying about President Bush before it runs out of money? Or not?
Posted by scorp on Sep 26, 2005 at 8:50 PM Scorp - new post.
One thing. Bush did not help himself by remaining on a prolonged vacation during the hurricane. He practically drew a bulls eye on himself. And in politics, perception is often more important than reality (hmmm, maybe Bush and Penn could have rented boats together?)
Posted by wolf on Sep 27, 2005 at 8:30 AM Of course the reality being he was really fully engaged and doing everything he could to help the victims.
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Good Point Wolf
“And in politics, perception is often more important than reality”...............
It was just a false perception that he was eating cake and ignoring the whole mess for as long as possible.
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Your perception is invaluable as usual.
Posted by GhostRabbit on Sep 27, 2005 at 10:36 PM God I wish we “liberals” could see things so clearly.
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We are all so wrapped up in our hatred of Bush and his Junta of professional criminals, we just can’t ever see anything good about Bush.
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Lucky we have enlightened folks like you guys to set us straight.
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What was the last thing he did right again?
Rabbit in his silliness has forgotten again.
What did Bush do right last time?
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Please remind us O perceptive ones.
Posted by GhostRabbit on Sep 27, 2005 at 10:39 PM I am sure there are some “conservatives” who agree with some “liberals”. Nobody that calls themselves “liberal” will agree about each and every issue with a fellow “liberal”. Same is true for “conservatives”. Otherwise they aren’t liberals or conservatives but sheep.
Posted by David in Canada on Sep 28, 2005 at 11:04 AM Eidolon Lagomorph -
DON’T PANIC, LAGOMORPH! Panic does absolutely no good. I hate to see a grown man get hysterical in public.
Let’s see, now. There were the 25 million Afghanis that were freed from the Taliban terrorist theocracy, and now they are well along in establishing a democracy in the least democratic corner of the globe. And then there are the Iraq Shia and Kurds who were freed from the worst dictatorship since Pol Pot, and before that, Nguyen Ai Quoc (AKA Ho Chi Minh), and before that Mousy Dung. The Iraqis are now building their own democracy, with a little help from their friends.
And Qaddafi, of course. Qaddafi decided he did not want to have to hide in a used septic tank, smelling like shit and looking like shit, so he turned over his nuclear and WMD programs to the USA, and the equipment now sits in Oak Ridge, Tennessee.
The USA also promoted the Rose Revolution, and Georgia (formerly part of the Soviet Union and Stalin’s birth place) elected a democratic government. That worked so well, we followed up with Ukrania (Orange Revolution) and Lebanon (Cedar Revolution). Now democracy is stirring all across the Middle East: Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Kuwait, most notably. Of course, you are a Liberal, and a Liberal would not lift a finger to bring freedom and democracy to anyone, nor stop genocidal terrorists, but that’s your problem.
And that is only in foreign affairs. President Bush also stopped the recession that followed the collapse of the Bubba Bubble, lowered taxes and instituted economic reforms, passed a significant legislative program, and successfully dealt with a series of natural and unnatural disasters. President Bush also listened, bemused if not amused, as the lying Liberals overstated the fatalities from Katrina by 1000% (that was Mayor Nagin talking, as reported by the CNN) and overstated the deaths in the Superdome by over 1600%. There were just six deaths in the Superdome (four from natural causes, one OD, one suicide), not the 100 that were reported.
Now President Bush is building a Conservative Supreme Court and Court System to restore the primacy of the Constitution as the source of our laws and freedoms.
But even with this uninterrupted string of triumphs, the very best thing that President Bush has done is to drive the lying Liberals stark, raving bonkers. Soros and his ilk spend hundreds of millions of dollars, and still can’t buy an election. I love it.
Posted by scorp on Sep 28, 2005 at 8:36 PM Scorp dear lad what is it with you and assuming others are panicking?
Rabbit is a most un-panicky fellow, trust me on this.
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Aries are not as a rule prone to panic for that matter.
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Rabbit gets around saying the truth, examining things with people, sometimes changes his views of things and often learns new things. Rabbit has never been other than fully engaged in all he does, what rabbit says is deliberate and Scorp should by now know that it just sounds over-weening to suggest Rabbit is anything but a calm and reasoned and articulute and honest Rabbit.
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Sorry it’s not a topical answer Scorp but have to catch up with someone else already promised.
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Literally only read your fist line, but hey an honest Rabbit, likle I said. Note that Rabbit often has a warm Herb Tea and a warm choc Chip Muffin sitting in front of him when posting, sometimes a small black Bunny on my lap. Hard to feel panicky when sitting thus....
Posted by GhostRabbit on Sep 29, 2005 at 12:21 AM Just a quick one, as Rabbit passes by again in a hurry, and in case you drop by again also. Promise to get back to your post for it is now Half read and interests Rabbit, I know its only short but Rabbit reads thoughtfully and carefully when he recognises some trying to do the same.
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Question, and it is not a leading one, don’t need to get into it now,
...... What is Scorps feelings about Depleted Uranium as a Weapon of War?…
Not asked for any other reason than curiosity at this stage, (mostly want to be sure Scorp is genuine, OK that is the truth)....But I promise not to discuss the issue further at this time, it is just something Rabbit has been dying to ask you since China. That thread actually told Rabbit you were not what you first appeared, but still left Rabbit with two possibilities. Scorp could easily satisfy the curious Rabbit. We are curious creatures, in all ways, but Rabbit is no less honest than he is curious, promise.
.....Shall return, maybe 24 hrs.
Posted by GhostRabbit on Sep 29, 2005 at 3:52 AM Eidolon Lagomorph -
DON’T PANIC, LAGOMORPH! Panic does absolutely no good. I hate to see a grown man get hysterical in public.
You say you do not panic, but why then bring up the subject of DU? Lying Liberals are in a constant state of panic over DU. But DU has never actually hurt anyone unless it was traveling at a high rate of speed, which is sort of the object of the game, isn’t it?
Now, it is true that a person should not eat DU, because it has about the same toxicity as lead, tungsten, and nickel. But the toxic heavy metals first cause damage to the kidneys, and even the twenty-two Gulf War veterans who are still carrying DU shrapnel show no damage to the kidneys, much less radiation damage. Uranium miners have a long history of high exposure to radioactivity with no adverse consequences; the small amount of radioactivity from ingested or inspired DU is inconsequential. This is, after all, depleted stuff. Natural uranium has little radiation, and DU has substantially less. If you are really concerned about radiation exposure, you undoubtedly avoid completely airline flights; long airline flights expose you to substantially more radiation than living in a DU house, or leaning against a granite wall.
But I do not expect that the sweet light of reason will faze a dedicated Liberal such as yourself. You worry about things that cannot possibly make a difference, and ignore the two million plus victims of Saddam’s genocide and aggressive wars, as you ignore the positive democratic changes that are coming to the Middle East. There is no accounting for taste, nor for tastelessness.
Posted by scorp on Sep 29, 2005 at 8:32 PM Scorp writes : “ You worry about things that cannot possibly make a difference, and ignore the two million plus victims of Saddam’s genocide and aggressive wars, as you ignore the positive democratic changes that are coming to the Middle East. “
Weren’t some of those two million plus victims, many innocent civilians, killed with weapons and know how supplied by America?
Weren’t some of those victims, ie. Iranians in the Iran/Iraq war(But I guess the Iran Contra affair evens that out?), Kuwaitis in the Kuwaut invasion, killed with political approval and permission supplied by America?
Democratic changes? I see the Middle East descending further into chaos not getting better.
Posted by David in Canada on Sep 29, 2005 at 8:50 PM AH HA! Thank you.
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No actually DU was a settled issue until attempts of a recent nature have been made to turn around sixty years of science and bury the last few years of evidence of just how deadly and evil this stuff is. No sane or rational person would argue in favour of those conditions outlined above.
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Sorry SCORP the gig is up. The Chinese thing could have shown an open mind, but you actually supported the True US government position on China, even though this is not the publically presumed one. This was a puzzle for Rabbit and he gave you the benefit of the doubt.
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As far as the issue of using Depleted Uranium as is being done, it has been established as dangerous, governments are resisting admitting it’s role as primary cause of Gulf War syndrome, no surprise, can anyone say COMPENSATION....In the mean time all civilized nations have stopped it’s use, according to International Resolutions which are binding come hell or high water Scorp. The fact that you can say it’s OK to use thousands of TONNES of Dirty BOMBS against an entire countryside even a region, because somebody in that region “MIGHT” use one small Dirty Bomb in our country, is the end of you as a person. You are and Rabbit calls you a SHILL. No mere TROLL Scorp, no my friend Rabbit calls you a SHILL, and he has only ever called it twice before and proven it both times....
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All bets are off.....When Rabbit said he will not debate the issue of DU further with you he meant it.....That will be your choice.....................as for anything else.............SHILL.......you are mince
Posted by GhostRabbit on Sep 29, 2005 at 10:21 PM More of those two million plus victims actually died because of US forced sanctions too David, the children part.
Posted by GhostRabbit on Sep 29, 2005 at 10:23 PM Correction Rabbit, actually UN sanctions. It is part of the good cop(UN and bad cop(USA) game. Another oxymoron there. Should read bad cop and badder cop.
Posted by David in Canada on Sep 29, 2005 at 11:26 PM The US was the leading force behind those sanctions for sure though.
Posted by David in Canada on Sep 29, 2005 at 11:27 PM That was Rabbit’s meaning, but can see it wasn’t clearly enough said.
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Rabbit agrees about the UN, off topic but the EURO vs DOALLARS is probably the Hegellian Dialectic of Illuminati again too.
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Now to cop a “Moon Batting”, after such ill considered public words.
Posted by GhostRabbit on Sep 29, 2005 at 11:49 PM I actually quite like the term “Moon Bat” - it seems very “poetic”, to me, and my cartoonist’s mind (alas, I have no cartoonist’s fingers to go with it) is busy drawing happy humorous pictures (rather greeting-card style) of smiling blue-furred bats illuminated by moonlight, flying up against a pretty-looking moon…
Etc.
It sounds better than “moon calf”, anyway, which I understand was originally a German expression, for a mad person.
Where Repugs get “moon bat” from, I really don’t know! (Perhaps they have a secret Illuminati spaceship which has discovered bats on the moon - in underground, atmosphere-filled caves?? Along with a few flying saucers??)
Anything lunar is poetic.
Nice to break up an unpleasant discussion!
Posted by Liz on Sep 30, 2005 at 12:41 PM Rabbit likes Moon Bats too and has a similar image Liz. Encourages adoption of a word to lovely to be offensive. Too lovely for a Rethuglican to have thought of.
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Only a thug would think such a term offensive.
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Look at Jay on the next thread who resorts to calling Rabbit...............BUNNY FACE........hee hee...
You are always welcome to break up any unpleasant discussions, for a moment of remembering why we are right and left and the other side is just wrong.
Posted by GhostRabbit on Sep 30, 2005 at 11:16 PM Eidolon Lagomorph –
DON’T PANIC, LAGOMORPH! Panic does absolutely no good. I hate to see a grown man get hysterical in public.
You once said you had no background in economics, and proceeded to prove the point by giving us your hysterical opinions on economic matters. I can tell by guessing that you have no background in science and mathematics, as well. Otherwise, why would you say such profoundly ignorant things, and come to such utterly unsupportable conclusions? Such as:
“DU was a settled issue until attempts of a recent nature have been made to turn around sixty years of science and bury the last few years of evidence of just how deadly and evil this stuff is.”
Can you come up with ten minutes of actual science (much less sixty years) is support of this absurd statement? LaRouche and Lancet don’t qualify.
You Lying Liberals sit around in an incestuous circle jerk, trying to see who can come up with the wildest unsupported and irrelevant ideas that prove your ideological purity in a conspiracy of dunces. Well, you have succeeded in your object, but who do you think cares outside your own little (and diminishing) minority?
If it does not tax your abilities too much, you might consider the following:
· You impute the symptoms of so-called Gulf War Syndrome to radiation poisoning from DU. The symptoms of radiation poisoning, which are well defined, have little to do with the diverse and indefinite symptoms attributed to Gulf War Syndrome. At any rate, there is no scientific consensus that Gulf War Syndrome is one or many conditions, or that it even exists; the New England Journal of Medicine insists that there is no such thing as Gulf War Syndrome. Fewer than one percent of US troops returning from Gulf I have unattributable illnesses, and these few have diverse symptoms, so it is entirely probable that so-called GWS is several different conditions, possibly the result of combat stress, that is, hysteria (there’s that word again). Now, I realize that you can go to your favorite Lying Liberal conspiracy theory website, and join the Gulf War Syndrome masturbation, but why should I be concerned, or bother to take note?
· There are several measures of radiation exposure, and some of the measures vary with the type of radiation (alpha, beta, gamma, x-ray). One rad is an absorbed dose of 0.01 joules of energy per kilogram of tissue. One gray is equal to 100 rad, or one joule of energy per kilogram of tissue. Rads are closely equivalent to rems for beta and gamma particles, and for x-rays. But one rad of alpha radiation is equivalent to 20 rem. One sievert is equal to 100 rem, regardless of source. And, of course, one thousand millirem (mrem) is equal to one rem. With all this in mind:
· Some of the inhabitants of Ramsar, Iran, are exposed to over 13,000 mrem of background radiation per year, and show no ill effects.
· People in Colorado are exposed to 180 mrem per year, and Massachusetts inhabitants are exposed to 102 mrem per year. But there are 16% more incidents of cancer in Massachusetts than in Colorado, and no one knows why, but it is not a direct correlation with radiation exposure, obviously. There is speculation that this is an example of hormesis, wherein low doses of certain materials (radiation, in this case) stimulate body defenses, and produce beneficial results.
·Research shows that a one-time exposure to 10,000 mrem will result in 1% of the exposed population eventually developing radiation-induced cancer.
· “Radiation caused illness and death after the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki in about 1% of those exposed who survived the initial explosions.” (Wikipedia)
Posted by scorp on Oct 1, 2005 at 9:48 PM (Cont.)
· Gulf War military personnel exposed to DU are closely monitored, all thirty-three of them. Twenty-two of these are carrying shrapnel. None of these are showing adverse effects related to radiation.
· The site is not up anymore, but I once read that Gulf War survivors who actually had DU imbedded had a 50% chance of dying of cancer within 186 years. We should all be so lucky.
Now, I realize that, not having any scientific knowledge or background, none of this means anything to you. I also realize that, given your Lying Liberal ideology and your inadequate understanding of technical matters, reading lurid conspiracy theory websites about the imagined effects of DU is very attractive to you. O-o-o-o-kay! Knock yourself out, boy!
Posted by scorp on Oct 1, 2005 at 9:49 PM Rabbit is not interested Scorp. You are a Shill. DU has been dealt with on another thread and there is nothing new to add. Like Rabbit said Scorp, SHILL. Nobody else could push the DU lie.
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Obviously Scorp would not consider a Dirty Bomb set off by so called “terrorists” to be a worse attack than a conventional bomb then? Depleted Uranium is just that you damned idiot.
You are a Shill and as such are beneath contempt Scorp. Put simply, F*CK YOU.
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You are such a damned fool. There are no lurid web sites depicting imagined effects of DU. IDIOT. Look it up on WIKIPEDIA..................... FOOL
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.There are a few sites set up to attempt to propagandise for DU but they have nothing but recent artciles by paid scientists. The US military own rules of use and cleanup are being igmored and so is International Law.
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Try and deny it you lying Shill, and you Knock yourself out...........................
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More......
Posted by GhostRabbit on Oct 2, 2005 at 5:41 AM Weaponized Ceramic Uranium Oxide Gas betrays the motives of its users in the US military and its advocates in politics, government and society. Just as surely as the Nazi’s poisonous hydrogen cyanide gas does for an impartial war crimes investigator.
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. Rabbit will cut and paste relevant bits from elsewhere to deal with you Scorpy, you are the one who wanted to play with the stuff.
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Here are a few of those lurid web sites Scorp mentions.
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United Nations:http://www.unhchr.ch/tbs/doc.nsf/(Symbol)/7afeec7003489bb780 02567550045e27a?Opendocument
http://www.unhchr.ch/Huridocda/Huridoca.nsf/(Symbol)/E.CN.4. .Sub.2.2002.38.En?Opendocument
http://www.unep.org/pdf/iraq_ds_lowres.pdf
Scientific:
http://www.royalsoc.ac.uk/landing.asp?id=1243
Now if there was any real scientific organisation in the world who would support genocidal ideas it would have to be this bunch of Ape descendants. Even the Royal Society isn’t prepared to ultimately sacrifice it’s credibility by running with you on this. The truly informed will know what this means.
http://www.ead.anl.gov/pub/doc/Depleted-Uranium.pdf
http://www.ead.anl.gov/pub/doc/Uranium.pdf
http://www.sandia.gov/news-center/news-releases/2005/def-non nprolif-sec/snl-dusand.pdf
Other:
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0508/S00085.htm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uranium/0,7368,419839,00.html
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/04/05/1356248& &mode=thread&tid=25
Another 500 links here:
http://www.betterworldlinks.org/du.htm
These links can provide a massive amount of facts, DU lovers.
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Posted by GhostRabbit on Oct 2, 2005 at 5:52 AM Scorp says depleted uranium is less radioactive than uranium. All depleted uranium is, is uranium that has had most of the U235 taken out of it (the stuff needed for fission chain reactions in bombs and nuke plants). Since U235 occurs in nature at about 2 percent of all uranium, with U238 accounting for about 98 percent of any sample, depleting it has very little effect on total radioactivity, though it’s true that U235 is a bit more radioactive than U238. But again, it’s not the radioactivity alone, or even primarily, that is what makes depleted uranium so dangerous.
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.Only Shills want to talk about the Radioactivity as if it the main issue it is not.
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The problem is with inhalation of the relativly soluble uranyl ion, e.g. in uranyl oxide (UO3). The hexavalent uranium(VI) ions such as uranyl—unlike any metalic uranium(0) or uranium(IV) ion such as in UO2 or U3O8—is “biologically available,” which means it is distributed into many tissues, some of which it accumulates in (e.g. the testes.) In addition to being biologically available, it catalyses oxidative radicals which damage DNA, and binds to proteins and DNA through ligation, which allows it to enter cells and nuclei. That is bad news.The problem with the chemical toxicity of uranium is that it attacks the chromosomes instead of other reticulated cell structures, making it a harm to the immune syste (resulting in gulf war illness) and offspring of male exposure victims with increased incidence of birth defects.
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From the Military Toxics Project:DU has been processed and tested at dozens of locations throughout the U.S., creating extensive contamination.
- The National Lead Industries factory in Colonie, NY, closed in 1980 after DU particles were found 26 miles away and DU levels in soil were 500 times higher than neighboring areas. (Len Dietz, 1996)
- The Starmet plant in Concord, MA dumped 400,000 pound of DU and other toxic substances into an unlined pit over twenty-five years. DU contaminated soil and groundwater, and is moving toward drinking water supplies. (Citizens Research and Environmental Watch, Concord, MA)
- The former Jefferson Proving Ground in Madison, IN contains over 150,000 pounds of DU shells and fragments. The U.S. Army wants to walk away from the contamination without performing any cleanup or ongoing environmental monitoring. (U.S. Army & Nuclear Regulatory Commission)
Health and Environmental Damage
When a DU shell hits a hard target such as a tank or building, it burns and produces a tiny ceramic dust that can be inhaled. These particles can remain in the environment for many years, travel for miles on air currents, re-suspend into the air when disturbed, and migrate into soil and groundwater. DU particles that are ingested or inhaled can lodge in the lungs, bones, kidneys, and reproductive organs and cause damage through radiation and toxic properties. Studies have linked DU exposure with damage to the kidneys; immune, nervous, respiratory, and reproductive systems; cancer; and genetic mutations.
Research over the past decade has produced increasing evidence that DU can harm humans.
- DU has been found in the urine of Gulf War veterans and Iraqi civilians eight years after exposure. (Rosalie Bertell, Ph.D, GNSH, Gulf War Illness Conference, 1999)- Animal studies found that DU lodges in high concentrations in a variety of organs; causes changes to the brain; crosses the placenta to the fetus; and is associated with mutations. (U.S. Armed Forces Radiobiology Institute)
- A recent U.S. military study found that DU damages the chromosomes that carry human genes. (U.S. Armed Forces Radiobiology Institute)- Radioactive and toxic properties of DU appear to reinforce each other, causing more extensive damage than the properties would separately. “You can get more than an eight-fold greater effect that you’d expect,” says DoD scientist Alexandra Miller. (The Guardian, April 17, 2003)
Posted by GhostRabbit on Oct 2, 2005 at 6:03 AM DU remains in the environment for many years after testing or combat use and can reach humans through a variety of pathways, including soil, air, drinking water, and food.
- At the former Jefferson Proving Ground in Indiana, DU has entered the food chain and been found in deer, clams, and fish. (Lockheed Analytical Services)- DU was found in Kosovo over two years after its use there. Researchers found localized DU contamination at 10,000 times normal, found DU contaminated with plutonium, and found evidence of airborne movement of DU dust. (United Nations Environment Programme)
- Investigators found widespread DU contamination in soil, air, and lichen in Serbia and Montenegro over two years after the conflict there. (United Nations Environment Programme)
- DU remains in Bosnia and Herzegovina over seven years after its use. Particles were found suspended in the air inside buildings and in drinking water. (United Nations Environment Programme)
Posted by Eadora on August 30, 2005 at 9:22 PM from Between Here and There
Yoh NatalieI apologize if I have seemed over zealous. But there have been a lot of “Scientific Facts” thrown your way. We have been around the carousel a couple of times.
As the Rabbit sez “If you had an open mind then you should long since have made it up”
But I will give you the benefit of the doubt and apologize to you. And see how things go.
So Again back to the issue: Quoting Natalie
“But then again, as I stated at the outset, I am not a scientist. I only pointed out that there can be much more than science involved in discerning the truth about DU”
Please review some of the science and facts already offered.
And
“I would suggest petitioning reputable and fair investigative reporting media outlets, if you can find any, to take up this issue.”
Excellent suggestions, I wonder why the issue is not covered as much as it should be.
It would seem the EU does not have that problem the have outted the stuff as WMD and War Crime.
Perhaps we don’t hear about it as much because of massive media and Gov cover up.
http://www.xs4all.nl/~stgvisie/VISIE/cancerous-web.html
I wonder if Alexandra Miller still has a job?
--------------Now Please review
Understand the lie, misrepresentation and deception perpetrated by US Defense upon “The Royal Societies” stand on this issue
Posted by Eadora on August 28, 2005 at 9:30 AMReview some of the numerous and excellent citations and information offered by jsalsman, dlindorff, johnmccarthy. Etc. All dissed and rejected out of hand.
See how “Roger Helbig” aka. “Roger Ramjet”, Major, Colonel, whatever, falls out of the bag of snakes.
A person with more than simple vested interest, his job probably depends on his performance here.
Understand the Vet Disability statistics.
Try the Conference Resolutions From The World DU & Uranium Weapons Conference.
Hell! do your own research.And answer this one burning question. That remains untouched by any of you Apologists.
Who would want to justify and rationalize the dumping of our Toxic Radioactive Waste upon a foreign land and a sovereign people.
Why can’t we dump it in our backyards?
That action alone Under existing International Law constitutes War Crime.
Answer as to the Simple Morality of that...
Come on Scorp Rabbit is knocking himself out here, as you can see.
Posted by GhostRabbit on Oct 2, 2005 at 6:04 AM WIKIPEDIA - saves you looking it up even Scorpy.
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.“In 1996 and 1997, the United Nations Human Rights Commission in Geneva, passed a resolution to ban the use of depleted uranium weapons. The Subcommission adopted resolutions which include depleted uranium weaponry amongst “weapons of mass and indiscriminate destruction, ... incompatible with international humanitarian or human rights law.” (Secretary General’s Report, 24 June 1997, E/CN. 4/Sub.2/1997/27)
A UN report of 2002 states that DU weapons also potentially breach each of the following laws: The Universal Declaration of Human Rights; the Charter of the United Nations; the Genocide Convention; the Convention Against Torture; the four Geneva Conventions of 1949; the Conventional Weapons Convention of 1980; and the Hague Conventions of 1899 and 1907. All of these laws are designed to spare civilians from unwarranted suffering in or after armed conflicts.
According to the UN, the resolutions in 1996-97 were passed because DU breaches several international laws concerning inhumane weapons: it is not limited in time or space to the legal field of battle, or to military targets; it continues to act after the war; it is “inhumane” by virtue of its ability to cause prolonged or long term death by cancer and other serious health issues, it causes harm to future civilians and passers by (including unborn children and those breathing the air or drinking water); and it has an “unduly negative” and long term effect on the natural environment and food chain. In detail:
Weapons may only be used in the legal field of battle, defined as legal military targets of the enemy in war. Weapons may not have an adverse effect off the legal field of battle. DU shells burn into fine particles which remain in the air or the environment. So they infect others over a wide range, and future passers-by, with uranium poisoning.
Weapons can only be used for the duration of an armed conflict. A weapon that is used or continues to act after the war is over violates this criterion.
Weapons may not be unduly inhumane. Weapons that cause cancer and illness long after the war are widely considered to be legally “inhumane”. Health issues to unborn children and civilians may also be crimes against humanity under international law.
Weapons may not have an “unduly negative” effect on the natural environment. The dust from DU impact becomes widespread in the environment, and (as with other heavy metals) becomes highly concentrated within living beings and the food chain.”
Posted by GhostRabbit on Oct 2, 2005 at 6:13 AM Eidolon Lagomorph –
DON’T PANIC, LAGOMORPH! Panic does absolutely no good. I hate to see a grown man get hysterical in public.
The UN Human Rights Commission? Those stalwart human rights supporters such as China, Congo, Cuba, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, and Zimbabwe? What makes you think the lot of them are qualified to comment on the effects of DU? What makes you think they can set aside their leftist and totalitarian ideologies to make an unbiased comment on any subject?
If you want a more factual and less biased report on DU from the UN try the World Health Organization:
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs257/en/
The WHO data agrees closely with the USA scientific and military studies; yes, DU produces fractional increases in natural radiological exposure, no, there are no adverse effects reported. But you have already rejected the government research; what is your take on WHO, which agrees with the government?
The list of sites you quote are utterly unimpressive; the two ead sites say that uranium is radioactive (!), and the Sandia site is not current. Neither of the ead sites give any indication of actual effects of DU exposure.
The remainder of your sites are Lying Liberal sites, ignorant of facts and motivated by leftist ideology, just like yourself.
DU has superior properties in defensive armor and in offensive anti-armor operations. That translates to a significant number of American military lives saved as compared to negligible radiation exposure and zero demonstrated negative effects among military and civilian personnel. Underlying your hysterical rants is the assumption that the United States government is deliberately doing things to harm its own troops regarding DU, while rendering superior medical care and prevention in all cases except regarding DU. Can you explain your utter lack of logic here?
Saddam killed something over two million people in his reign of terror. You cannot demonstrate that a single American soldier or Iraqi civilian has ever gotten sick, much less died, from DU exposure. You Lying Liberals devote vast amounts of time and energy to the petty and the irrelevant, while ignoring mass deaths and mass depravity. Knock yourself out, boy, I can’t think of a better use for you of your time.
Posted by scorp on Oct 2, 2005 at 1:00 PM DU is a war crime. It poisons civilians, and our own soldiers without regard. One particle inhaled can give you cancer.
“Scorp” is an ignorant person, without any concept of the issues he raises.
Death By Slow Burn:How America Nukes Its Own Troops
What “Support Our Troops” really means
http://proliberty.com/observer/20030401.htmAnd trying to cast the issue of uranium munitions as a “liberal” one is asinine in and of itself. This person lacks basic powers of cognition.
And now we’re supposed to take this guys talking points about Saddam Hussein at face value? You’ve got to be kidding me. Donald Rumsfeld on behalf of Ronald Reagan went over there to suck Saddam’s cock—I mean to sell him the precursers for bio and chem weaponry.
The CIA helped Saddam take over and gave him lists of “leftists” to exterminate, which he did.
The “2 million” deaths cited, if accurate, include tons of IRANIANS whom Saddam attacked on behalf of US interests. Iran was the “bad guy” after they overran the CIA base there, I mean “embassy.”
Reagan and Bush Sr. protected Saddam and funneled money to his regime illegally by calling it “agricultural subsidies.” Look up IRAQGATE.
And get an education, goober.
Posted by johndoraemi on Oct 2, 2005 at 3:56 PM The Butcher of New Orleans:
9-11 Insider & Director of “Homeland Security” Michael ChertoffCrimes of the State
“Chertoff delayed federal response, memo shows”
“Chertoff didn’t shift that power to Brown
until late afternoon or evening on Aug. 30,
about 36 hours after Katrina hit”
-Knight RidderHow many dead babies and grandparents does it take to earn one the title of “butcher?”
A handful should be sufficient, if the killer is a common nutcase. Dozens of dead bodies aren’t required in our mainstream sensationalist culture, certainly not hundreds, or thousands!
The buck stops where?
LA TIMES: “Under the National Response Plan, the Homeland Security secretary is deemed the ‘principal federal official’— the overall manager — for all major natural disasters.”
Knight-Ridder: “But Chertoff - not Brown - was in charge of managing the national response to a catastrophic disaster, according to the National Response Plan, the federal government’s blueprint for how agencies will handle major natural disasters or terrorist incidents. An order issued by President Bush in 2003 also assigned that responsibility to the homeland security director.”
Clearly Michael Chertoff was in charge the entire time. Which means that when FEMA actively blocked every conceivable manner of aid and rescue from arriving—or entering into—New Orleans and Jefferson Parishes, Michael Chertoff was directly responsible for the needless deaths that resulted. Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff should be arrested immediately for murder, or at least for “manslaughter.”
CONNECTIONS
Sander Hicks has investigated Michael Chertoff for his newly released book: The Big Wedding, 9/11… Hicks provided some crucial information about Chertoff in a radio interview with Dave Emory on WFMU’s For the Record (mp3):
“Their attorney happened to be Michael Chertoff”
“(Michael Chertoff) just happened to be the defender of these Egyptians who were financiers of Osama bin Laden. And it’s an incredible anomaly, and it should have completely spoiled his chances for becoming Director of Homeland Security, however there seemed to be an extremely tight media blackout.
“(NJ State investigators) found ten million. Five million [$] was still missing, still unaccounted for. It looks like that ended up in the hands of Osama bin Laden. So, Dr. Magdy Elamir had a lot to answer for. But he hired one of the most powerful attorneys at the time: Michael Chertoff (...) and Chertoff got him off. And Magdy Elamir never went to jail.
ARTICLE CONTINUES (WITH LINKS TO SOURCES):
http://crimesofthestate.blogspot.com/
Posted by johndoraemi on Oct 2, 2005 at 4:03 PM Poor old Scorpy what is it with you and panic.
Those posts took about 5 minutes to aasemble Scorpy.
Rabbit is sitting in his office with a warm muffin and morning Coffee. Your don’t panic line must really have impressed yourself or maybe you are giving away your own fears again. Who knows? Who Cares? Rabbit only cares that the truth is here. Your lies and propaganda doesn’t stand up to any scrutiny. Your words are quite familiar to many, we’ve heard them before, every Dittohead who drops in says the same thing. You have no Facts worthy of basing your bag of opinions on so you can Jabber on and attack sources all you like.
Rabbit took a grab bag of Sources reffering to DU FACTS, they included a link to a source with over 500 more links. The facts are that most of those are neither Liberal or in any way political. As for the Sandia Site, it was actually one which DU-apologists often turned to, because it actually gave some support to minor stuff about Radiation not being the major problem. Glad to see it’s gonr, Sandia Labs was one of the less trustworthy because of links to the Military I think, can’t remeber exactly and don’t vare because it is just one source. The main thing people will see is that DU is a vry well understood subject with a huge volume of research, observations and hsitory to show it for what it is.
-
Professional SHILLS like your self are trying to make believe that it is some new science which is still being considered. This is rubbish. The only doubts about the Long Term Dreadful effects of DU Weapons is that which you and people like you have been trying to spin the last few years, without ANY success I might add..
WHO is a very questionable organisation and most informed peope know why, no need to confuse a SHILL who no doubt knows what WHO is but can never admit it.
.
The fact is SCORP that you are sticking to the official SHILL line and only reffering to Radiation which as has been said several times already is not the worst problem.
.
The things about Depleted Uranium is that at least one third of the prjectile, (With bullets) and all of the material with bombs. is turned into a Hideously Bad , “Ceramic Uranium Oxide Vapour” this is inhaled, this is what is making up much of the background radiation and since it is inhaled and is water soluble, it is many times worse than the radiation from solid, ie: Uranium Dust.
.
Further more Scorp there are over 250,000 disabled Veterans of Gulf War who are sufferring from a mystery illness, called Gulf War syndrome. The symptoms of “Gulf War
Syndrome” are remarkably similar to DU poisoning..
The Pentagon has so far resisted the proper testing of personnel exposed to DU in the field. The few that have been tested have shown that a number of these have DU poisoning.
.
There are a few stories some already on this site about ACTUAL babies being born to Veterans who have the deformitous consistent with DNA damage caused by Alpha radiation.
.
Facts are on the ground you BOZO, you are never going to win this one, the stuff is also a Banned Weapon of Mass and Indiscrimate destruction. If there is nothing wrong with it, why do people have a problem with having Nuclear Waste dumps in their COUNTRY borders?
.
Australia is poised to be a major supplier of Uranium, guess what the sticking point is? There is a political problem, they need to consider taking back the “Depleted Uranium”, for waste. No way says the people. Now isn’t that a bit odd considering it would be inside of lead and concrete, and be buried deep. Rabbit thinks that Exploding the suff with high explosives which turns it into the thousand times more mobile and deadly Ceramic Uranium Oxide Vapours, is bound to be even more of a worry than buried inside of Lead and Concrete.
.
Would Scorp care to explain why Depleted Uranium is a waste disposal problem, even in Lead and Concrete drums, yet is is no big deal used as a Weapon of WAR in the above detailed fashion?
.
Posted by GhostRabbit on Oct 2, 2005 at 8:16 PM Would Scorp care to explain, why the Penatgon will not test the returned veterans as is being demanded by them, cicil rights groups and various members of government?
.
The source you give is of little use, because it obviously has gone to lengths to ignore the CRITICAL Uranyl problem, that is where the real danger lies and that is why this is where you concentrate your lies.
.
Did you check all the roughly seven hundred references available via WIKIPEDIA Scorpy? How many of these were lying lefty sites Scorpy? all 700 of them maybe? Of course they don’t all refer to all the issues surrounding DU and of course they are not all consistent, the main reason for this is very simple, you NONG.
.
Data from 1984 or 1991 form example does not include the massive amount of testing and discussion that has gone on since it began to be used as a Weapon at those times. The intrenational community decided that the evidence was overwhelming which proves that DEpleted Uranium Weapons were justified as being banned both as Nuclear weapons and even more tellingly as Chemical Weapons. The Chemical Weapons Ban is due to the Uranyls. This is why all civilised nations, including my own country I am not ashamed to say, has ceased to use DU and will not5 do so again.
.
Only 2 countries are still using it, they are using it in enormous quantities in mainly Iraq right now. Yes we all used it in the Balkans and it was used in the Gulf War by us too. We also have a huge percentage of our Gulf War Veterans suffering from “GULF WAR SYNDROME”, with the attendant cervical cancers etc of their spouses and the deformities in children born to them. Our government is resisting admitting the DU did it, but that is only because of the compensation fears they have. It is also why they will not say sorry to the Aborigines for the treatment they sufferred at the hands of government over time, Again Compensation.
.
.The scary thing is that the earlier wars combined did not see more than a thousand tons of DU deployed. Only some hundreds in Gulf War 1. This time round in Iraq, there has been more than 3500 tons used.
.
Scorpy, you are an intelligent person, even if you are only allowed to spruik the official line, think about it.
.
At least a couple of thousand tons of Ceramic Uranium Oxide VAPOUR, some being breathed in by soldiers and Iraqi Citizens, as it is part of the “AIR SUPPLY” in that area of the Middle East at the moment. It remains as a vapour until breathed in or dissolved in water. Do you know what the rainfall pattern in Iraq is over the last couple of years?
.
Does it occur to you poor Scorpy that there are such a thing as winds and weather patterns which will help disperse that nasty stuff quite a distance, the 2000 tons of evil is shared around with a fair portion of others, it could concievably make it’s way around the world, certainly some will and the more you keep pumping the stuff out there..
It is kind of like the entree, setting the background for the Nulcear Holocaust which Rabbit would bet is going to be unleased by the Beast Men in the whitehouse, in a last throw of the dice at least before they will answer the indigments which are approaching from all quarters.Nevertheless, Scorpy, hiding such a BIG LIE is not possible. It is gargantuan next to Agent Orange, it is already old and is not standing up to any scrutiny as can be seen anywhere on the net it has been debated.
.more
Posted by GhostRabbit on Oct 2, 2005 at 8:18 PM Scorpy , there is no doubt at all that if Rabbit had a choice between having a 500 gram bit of DU Shrapnel in his guts for life, or breathe in 1 gram of Ceramic Uranium Oxide Vapour. Do you know why SCORPY? Sure you do, that is why you only want to talk about a few dozen soldiers with a few grams of Shrapnel in them.
.
Rabbit is confident that the half Kilo of DU might cause some cancer and might shorten Rabbits life and lower it’s quality a bit. Rabbit knows for sure however that the 1 gram of DU Vapour, whether taken in small doses (Easy in Iraq) over time, or all at once, (unlikely, but happens), will kill him. It will cause all of the above and it would ensure that Rabbit could not have healthy normal babies, if he remained healthy long enough to have them.
.
You know something Scorp the more Rabbit thinks about this issue, the more he loses the ability to express the depth of loathing which are being felt in my heart, I just cannot find the words to tell you how much I loathe you Scorp, in all seriousness, if as it appears you are Shilling for this cause.
.
The United Staes government is doing a great deal to harm their own troops, and for you to say otherwise is the height of hypocrisy. You maniac Scorp, there are people who have postd their own personal experiences in the military, on this site, which confirm what we are saying. There is only reason there is no “OFFICIAL” recognition of the DU poisoning of hundreds of thousands of troops and many more innocent civilians. The OMLY reason is that they are resisting tesing those troops.
.
The best you can ever hope to achieve is to create some doubt, which can be eliminated by testing. Since testing is being resisted, why do you think that is Scorpy?Well Scorpy, several states are about to start the testing of their own veterans, so we should start to see pretty soon. Are you not glad for that? Of course you are not because you don’t think anyone should test anything, the Army has said it is safe, and that should be the end of it. Don’t think so Scorpy.
.
You say we cannot demonstrate that anybody ever got sick from DU poisoning, and you are quite wrong about that. There are quite a few people who have tested positive to DU poisoning up to half or more of any group so far checked. The birth deformities and symptoms of poisoning are being recorded as we speak and the fact that we are still referring to a mystery disease, with all the symptoms of DU poisoning, while refusing to test for DU poisoning is quite a large elephant in the living room. The elephant is feeling your head and touching you Scorpy but you don’t want to see it..
By the way Scorp, Rabbit shows you the respect of dealing with your posts and answering any direct questions, would you like to try and do the same, then it might look less like Shilling and more like debating. Rabbit has asked you some very critical questions which relate to your presumption that DU is sexy and it should be used as it is, despite International Law, and the normal laws by which we measure our humanity.
Posted by GhostRabbit on Oct 2, 2005 at 11:00 PM John -
DON’T PANIC, JOHN! Panic does absolutely no good. I hate to see a grown man get hysterical in public.
>> One particle inhaled can give you cancer. <<
If that were true, everyone on earth would be dead. We are constantly exposed to ionizing radiation, including through eating and breathing. Yet, of the Hiroshima and Nagasaki survivors, only one percent ever got cancer, and some of them got major doses of radiation. The piddling amount of radiation from DU weaponry is simply not a serious threat. The US military that were exposed to DU in Gulf I are being monitored and are not showing signs of cancer, nor of heavy metal poisoning.
Anecdotal reports of maldevelopment or unusual cancers are worthless. Keep in mind that radiation-induced leukemia develops within about two years, but all other forms of cancer from radiation develop in fifteen or twenty years.
I realize that you are in earnest, but you are simply not expressing serious concerns. Fortunately, we are in a free country, and you can say any weird thing that pops into your head, but if you talk silly you will be treated as silly.
Posted by scorp on Oct 3, 2005 at 8:36 PM Ah, Scorp, so now we’re defining what is and is not (and who is or is not) “serious.”
The man who decries “anecdotal reports” gives us nothing but unsubstantiated anecdotal reports. Not a reference in sight.
Is this “serious,” Mr. Scorp?
“Army health physicist Dr. Doug Rokke was dispatched to the Middle East to salvage DU-contaminated tanks after Gulf War I. His Geiger counters revealed that the war zones of Iraq and Kuwait were contaminated with up to 300 millirems an hour in beta and gamma radiation plus thousands to millions of counts per minute in alpha radiation.”
“Of the 100 people on Rokke’s decontamination team, 30 have already “dropped dead.” Rokke himself is ill with radiation damage to lungs and kidneys. He has brain lesions, skin pustules, chronic fatigue, continual wheezing and painful fibromyalgia. Rokke warns that anyone exposed to DU should have adequate respiratory protection ... “
“Once inhaled, uranium oxides lodge in the body and emit radiation indefinitely. A single particle of DU lodged in a lymph node can devastate the entire immune system according to British radiation expert Roger Coghill.”
(Scorp, I figured you could have gotten to this info from the hyperlink I posted previously. My bad. Should I use smaller words?)
Then—after all his idiotic prancing—Scorp does something completely unexpected. HE CONCEDES THE POINT:
“Keep in mind that radiation-induced leukemia develops within about two years, but all other forms of cancer from radiation develop in fifteen or twenty years.”
But they DO develop. That was the point. You’ve basically made my case for me (poorly, without supporting documentation). It doesn’t matter to the argument if it takes two, five or fifty years. You have already conceded defeat.
“I realize that you are in earnest, but you are simply not expressing serious concerns. “Cancer is a “serious concern” to rational people, and so is radiation sickness in all its ugly forms.
“you can say any weird thing that pops into your head,”
Or scientific facts. It’s all the same to you, Scorp, the man who doesn’t know which side he’s arguing.
“but if you talk silly you will be treated as silly.”
No comment necessary.
http://crimesofthestate.blogspot.com/
Posted by johndoraemi on Oct 3, 2005 at 11:35 PM Scorp by the way since you asked it was the silly slogans you used to do and not debating with at least a semblance of coherance as you do these days.
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There never was any variation in your views, there seldom is between Dittoheads. That is part of the definition.
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No offence we are all what we are.
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