Sorry about the Rabbit mistake the site you linked to was the proper 911Review site, which rabbit has also posted to above. there is a 911Review.org, which is a disinfo site, and Rabbit was hasty in writing it off. However the Rabbit rises another head taller than the Natalie, by recognising and admitting it. Now the information on collapse times, is that there is some doubt about the exact times taken, but it doesn’t actually alter the main contention at all.
The site in fact is a strong supporter of the theory that explosives were involved. So Natalie, Rabbit will link to the relevant section of that site, for you.
[url=“http://tinyurl.com/cgstk”]Our analysis of the destruction of the Twin Towers divides the events into four parts:
—Jetliners impact the towers
—Fires follow the impacts
—Explosions level the towers
—Vast dust clouds follow the explosions [/url]
This is the source Natty just used for a reference
You are coming around to our way of thinking then Natty?
Maybe you are just desperate for something, anything that you’ll settle for establishing one of the 911 researchers smoked pot in college, or maybe one of them squeezes farts out of dead seagulls.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 4, 2005 at 7:28 PM
The following site includes a good roundup of Witnesses to the explosions in the World Trade Centers, as well as some simple logic. What can you attack this guy for Batty Natty?
William Thomas
William Rodriguez Just a report, from a reporter, to show he is real.
<i>By Greg Szymanski
What happened to William Rodriguez the morning of 9/11 is a miracle. What happened to his story after-the-fact is a tragedy.
But with miracles and tragedies comes truth. And truth is exactly what Rodriguez brings to the whole mystery surrounding 9/11.
Declared a hero for saving numerous lives at Ground Zero, he was the janitor on duty the morning of 9/11 who heard and felt explosions rock the basement sub-levels of the north tower just seconds before the jetliner struck the top floors.
He not only claims he felt explosions coming from below the first sub-level while working in the basement, he says the walls were cracking around him and he pulled a man to safety by the name of Felipe David, who was severely burned from the basement explosions.
All these events occurred only seconds before and during the jetliner strike above. And through it all, he now asks a simple question everybody should be asking? How could a jetliner hit 90 floors above and burn a man
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 4, 2005 at 7:49 PM
William Rodriguez’ Story
How will the SHILL deal with this guy? Attack his character? Attack the sites used so far, (Rabbit has collected dozens of references to Rodriguez’ story from the days after the 911 attacks until recently, just in case Natty doesn’t like Arctic Beacon or that lady reporter from before.
<i>...since he was late, Rodriguez found himself checking into work in an office on sub-level 1 when the north tower was hit, seemingly out of harms way. However, the sound and concussion of a massive explosion in the sub-levels right below his feet changed that.
“When I heard the sound of the explosion, the floor beneath my feet vibrated, the walls started cracking and it everything started shaking,” said Rodriguez, who was huddled together with at least 14 other people in the office.
Rodriguez said Anthony Saltamachia, supervisor for the American Maintenance Co., was one of the people in the room who stands ready to verify his story.
“Seconds after the first massive explosion below in the basement still rattled the floor, I hear another explosion from way above,” said Rodriguez. “Although I was unaware at the time, this was the airplane hitting the tower, it occurred moments after the first explosion.”
But before Rodriguez had time to think, co-worker Felipe David stormed into the basement office with severe burns on his face and arms, screaming for help and yelling “explosion! explosion! explosion!”
David had been in front of a nearby freight elevator on sub-level 1 about 400 feet from the office when fire burst out of the elevator shaft, causing his injuries.
“He was burned terribly,” said Rodriguez. “The skin was hanging off his hands and arms. His injuries couldn
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 4, 2005 at 7:55 PM
here is the key and it is what Natty is all about.
<b>(in) Puerto Rico and all the other Latin American countries, I have been allowed to tell my story uncensored. But here, I can
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 4, 2005 at 7:58 PM
GO here
That is a great site, lots of quotes from experts and exactly the sort of Pyrotechnics Rabbit was talking about.
Say one idiotic thing Natty and Rabbit will mention the name of the company….....you know who…....and post lots of quotes from the site. For now you can just hope that others don
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 4, 2005 at 8:53 PM
This article..........Rabbit looks behind himself….................. bad electrons, stay put this time.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 4, 2005 at 8:54 PM
Morgan Reynolds has been critically examined it seems and while some other of his ideas, which may be being treated out of context anyway, are challenged the fact of his credibility, expertise and position are not.
This by Jim Hoffman and it includes the rebuttal and lots of links for anyone who wants to look closer. The essential point is Reynolds’ qualification to say what he says.
The article Why Did the Trade Center Skyscrapers Collapse? published on the libertarian-oriented website LewRockwell.com, has garnered considerable attention. It makes the case for the controlled demolition of the Twin Towers and Building 7 with much the same eloquence as David Ray Griffin, whom it cites. Its author, Morgan Reynolds, brings unprecedented credentials to the community of skeptics of the official story: He is professor emeritus at Texas A&M University, former director of the Criminal Justice Center at the National Center for Policy Analysis, and former chief economist for the US Labor Department during 2001-2002.
Reynolds provides an excellent summary of evidence for the controlled demolition of the WTC skyscrapers. However, he also devotes about a third of his article to supporting the dubious idea that neither the Twin Towers, the Pentagon, nor the field in Shanksville, PA were the sites of the crashes of the jetliners commandeered on 9/11/01. His article thus weds the thesis of controlled demolition of the skyscrapers with the denial that Flights 11, 175, 77, and 93 crashed where reported. This is unfortunate because it functions to discredit the case for demolition by associating it with ideas that lack scientific merit, are easily debunked, and are inherently offensive to the victims of the attack—especially the survivors of the passengers and crews of the crashed flights.
The role of disinformation in undermining the exposure of the facts of the 9/11 attack—the subject of the information warfare section of 911Review.com—is appreciated by few in the 911 Truth Movement itself. Indeed most sincere researchers of the attack have been fooled, at least temporarily, by some of the many hoaxes that have been promoted under the guise of truth exposure. Reynolds, a relative newcomer to the skepticism of the basic tenets of the official story, is likely no exception. I can imagine several reasons he might give the no-jetliners theories so much credence.
Enough of that Red-herring Nat the Bad Bat and do the Rodriguez character assasination if that is all you have left.
WITNESS time.
The final bell, the real matter of Personal attack is when it comes to WITNESSES. The other personal attacks Nat makes are of little meaning in the overall picture, but now the claws must be sharp. So this should be Milk and honey for Natalie.
Here she comes….....Swooping in ..........Blood dripping from her fangs, fresh from a kill. Probably feeding off some fresh War Dead.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 4, 2005 at 9:43 PM
Natalie in Brazil?
She’ll be back once she has fed.
This has to be the latest on 911. Anybody who still tries to defend the offiical lie, must be certifiably insane. They would fail a basic reflex test.
[url=“http://tinyurl.com/7m372”]German Intel Agent
Von Bulow Solves 911[/url]
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 5, 2005 at 6:55 PM
Natty is gone walkabout, as she does when the going gets tough.. When the going gets tough, the tough get lost.
Come back Natty we want the “official” response to Rodriguez, everybody is dying to hear the government response. Or are you waiting for an assassination to make the problem go away? that is what Rabbit fears.
Mr Rodriguez has got to be the most seriously threatened species on the planet, may God go with him.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 7, 2005 at 3:00 AM
“Natalie the actual Facts Rabbit is not going to play your personal attack Shill games anymore”
MY personal attack shill game? MY game? If you’re suggesting that I’m somehow not allowed to critique what you put forth, or question the credibility, credentials and reliability of your sources, I would wonder what makes it taboo for me and perfectly fine for you. Is there some kind of ....hypocricy exemption…..I’m unaware of?
The game of “SHILL” is your invention. You introduced the term, and insist on keeping it alive through thick and thin. Please tell me what the difference is between me arguing one POV, and trusting a certain set of sources, and you promoting another POV put forth by a separate set of sources. Why am I called a “Shill”, while you somehow remain immune to the label? I would suggest that you either offer a reasonable explanation, or abandon the term.
“There is an American Poll, it has been posted already among the many you ignored.”
Please repost the link to this American Poll that asks specifically about deliberate demolition. I apparently missed it. Obviously, it can’t be an “Internet poll”. To be meaningful it must be scientific.
<i>“That Texas A&M link tells us nothing of importance Natalie.
Posted by Natalie on Nov 7, 2005 at 10:53 PM
I don’t want to attack Bill Rodriguez. It appears that he was quite heroic on 9/11 and continues to try to help other victims of the attack. I can’t explain why all the reporters and/or editors chose to clip out his comments about explosions, if he did indeed testify to that effect from day one as he maintains currently. It does appear that he has gained a new following, a new set of admirers to take the place of likely a fading spotlight that shone simply on his heroism. His lawyer, Philip Berg, actually filed a lawsuit demanding that Supreme Court justices be disbarred for siding with Bush in 2000. This is Kookville central. This kind of goofiness has not gone unnoticed by the good, but still in major denial folks at 911review.com:
disinfo/lawsuits
In fact, these good but still in major denial folks seem to have quite a few issues with a lot of what you’ve introduced here in past posts:
Errors
And so do these good but still in major denial folks:
Bogus
You may be disappointed to see many of your most trusted sources listed. Rense, Jones, Serendipity (the LSD guy), etc, etc.
So people heard explosions. That’s really not too suprising, what with jet fuel fires coursing through the building’s elevators:
Elevator shafts worked like chimneys, funneling unbearable smoke to floors above the crashes. The shafts also channeled burning jet fuel throughout both towers. Fire moved not only up and down but also side to side, from shaft to shaft, unleashing explosions in elevator lobbies and in restrooms next to the shafts.
(link)
I can’t explain how the brave janitor is able to interpret the progression and direction of the explosions he heard and felt as being the product of a deliberate demolition, and not simply because of the crash of the planes and the sub-explosions that no doubt resulted. I don’t believe anyone has made any claims that might actually prove something, like for instance seeing someone laying blasting wire, or someone coming forward and admitting that he did, or someone among the thousands that picked through the debris bucket by bucket finding some.
I suspect this lawsuit will be thrown out of court, or more likely laughed out. I hope I’m wrong, though. I hope it’s televised so I can see how a few disgruntled Bush-haters with no technical expertise stand up against a parade of structural engineers, including some of the same ones that designed and built the towers, and other misc. genuine experts in the fields that apply. That would be priceless.
In other words…....please…... bring it on!!
Posted by Natalie on Nov 7, 2005 at 10:54 PM
Nobody said anything about polls and demolition Nasty Natty, we were talking about “NOT believing” the official lie. Those polls are referred to several times above and Rabbit will re-post them in his own time, they are more dissembling by a Liar, you. Your points of vuiew are official propaganda and obviously so. you have avoided reasonable deabte you go round and round with snarky personal attacks, avoidance of issues and false screeching about how badly done by you are. The thread stands and so do otyhers which show you are not even a real person in the sense that you came onto this site pretending to be someone you were not. You have shown yourself to be completely devoted to maintaining the official line, beyond what is normal even for trolls and morons, your tactics are so transparent and repulsive that no one who has met you has called you anything diferrent.
You refer disparagingly to Reynolds now and you will do it over and over to anyone who doesn’t tow the official line, why is it any surprise. You can’t dispute what they say so you attack the person.
You can’t dispute what they say so you attack the person and it is obvious. Just because you don’t have ANY credible independant witnesses for the official lie, and just because half the details of the offiical lie are patently false, don’t assume that the rest of the doubting world is as poverty stricken in the area of logic and evidence as you.
You can’t dispute what they say so you attack the person
I have not found out that Reynolds is buying into anything like you suggest. that is just more of your feeble innuendo.
You are referring to a comment by someone, which was a throwaway one, and which does not even refer specifically to the theories. As I pointed out the author probably was misunderstanding and taking something out of context, for whilst Rabbit hasn’t looked at Reynolds beliefs, his professional opinion is no less for any “beliefs” especially as if they are the ones I am thinking of there is no way they can be called impossible. So stop with the innuendo you dishonest toad of a person. So far you’ve sold your soul and every grain of credibility for your assigned cause, and despite your hollow claims of anything else, you have FAILED spectacularly to introduce any credibility to a discredited official lie, and you have failed to damage any alternative theories about what happened which have been accepted as probable by Rabbit and others. It is also obvious that you disapear like you do when there gets to be too many against you, and come back after you hope they have all gone away. You are such a fraud, Natty.
You don’t want to attack William Rodriguez but you will, and calling him Bill, which has not been done before by any source does not make you seem any less ridiculous. You must share the same image consultant as Dubya.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 8, 2005 at 1:40 AM
When a known false info site like which includeds claims about certain sites to be false, and I see my trusted sites among those it lists as untrustworthy? Actually Natalie Rabbit is pleased to see that those sites are under attack, especially as he knows the perpetrators had to resort to false claims about those sites to be able to criticise them. You do use soem garbage. taht link is no more than an attck piece. It uses nothing more substantial than your type of innuendo and starwman arguments. Crap in other words. Where is something factual? It cleverly attacks one or two other disinfo sites, like itself, but that doesn’t change anything. we already know which of the supposed truth sites are really yours.
Those things which you claim are being denied by 911.review, are not things which Rabbit has tried to claim anywhere, you are just repeating your earlier lies when you tried to put words in my mouth, strawman arguments, by cherrypicking bits and pieces around the periphery of sites which were posted for other specific purposes. you have attributed some of the claims being debunked on that link, but they were not, so, that is what is called a foul, Natty.
The other thing to be rememeber is that certain theories on this site may be wrong, it is but one of many, and since the Government has hidden the evidence and is hindering all investigations, it is hard to sort out all the theories and several of even the more extreme ones may yet be true, who is to know while the EVIDENCE is being withheld?
As for the last part of your post, all it shows is that you have either not read the full account by Rodriguez, including the number of other witnesses, or you are ignoring it. There was not lots of Jet fuel down elevators as we’ve already shown that it was almost all burnt up in the explosion. It was one of thsoe facts which was ignored by you as being unassailable, like most of the other important things. as for the things which might have been noticed in the setting up of the explosives, you are right, and there is indeed evidence of this. Among other interesting things, the BOMB Sniffer dogs were removed from the WTC’s a week or so before 911. One of the later identified “hijackers” was also seen in the building, apparently measuring and mapping the building. Evidence which is on record and was ignored by the 911 commission, of course.
There is more, Natty much much more than you can ever hope to discredit, even if you had a single useful fact which you don’t. Get on with the dirty attacks of Rodriguez, because it’s all you have. His story completely F*CKS yours. So either he and his twenty odd witnesses are lying, or your Blood Drenched Government is lying, telling the biggest lie of modern times and you are helping them do it. You are also helping spread Depleted Uranium all over the planet. You are the original She devil, incarnation of Evil. You are besmirching the memory of thsoe three thousand who you otherwise use as justification for killing 150,000. You are doing this because what you are doing, no matter what you believe, you are trying to stop the truth being found, whatever it might be. The truth is oibviously not known, and you are detenrmined it will not be. You are Beezlebub. The original figurehead for Babylon the Great W.
The witnesses will be speaking the truth, they will be doing so separately and they will be supported by much much more evidence as it must be obvious to any fool. NO Parade of structural engineers who have nothing but theory to work with anyway, will be able to discredit that you stupid fool. There is no way that proving the building might possibly have fallen down by itself, if the witnesses show it did not!
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 8, 2005 at 2:07 AM
Wow are you a hopeful one. Twenty people, supported by various forms of evidence much of which is outlined on this thread, claim to have heard, felt and experienced exlosions before and after the plane hit. A bunch of government sponsored engineers trying to use various weird ways of explaning, how such a previously unknown event managed to happen not once but three times in one place on the same day. How do you like the odds? You are of course someone who thinks nuclear waste is no worse than lead, so anything is possible. Of course Rabbit knows you must really know how hopeless is your cause, you just have to keep up the pretense Natty, or they won’t pay you.
But don’t worry, it is being brought on, and it is being brought on from more than one direction too. How long do you think this Junta can stay standing against it’s current failure on all fronts? Another year? Two? Maybe three but Rabbit doubts they can hold it together any longer than another two, before they’ll have to drop the disguise and fire up the ovens. By then even idiots like most of the morons who still dream on will be awake and angry.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 8, 2005 at 2:16 AM
It is hard to believe you would repost the link of errors which rabbit has already highlighted and which you refer to now it is convenient as you try to use something out of context. So Rabbit shall stop your cherry picking and let’s look at the whole artcile, which is of course referenced on many points raised, on the site, Nat had kindly re linked above.
Parade of Errors
On September 11, 2001 four jetliners, the Pentagon, and Manhattan were struck in a complex and coordinated military operation involving numerous individual assaults. A critical view of the timeline and targeting of the attack undermines the official story that bands of Islamic terrorists armed only with primitive weapons executed the attack, and that the deadly collapses that followed were merely engineering failures.
Consequently a growing number of skeptics of the official account of the attack have raised questions and demonstrated that key assertions of the official story are impossible.
However, skeptics have faced an array of challenges in their attempts to convince others of the bankruptcy of the official story, not the least of which are their own failures to correctly interpret evidence of the attack and present a unified theory. It appears that confusing and dividing the skeptics was an important objective in the planning and follow-up of the attack. This was accomplished both at the front end, by the way the attack was structured, and at the back end, by the insertion of disinformation.
The idea that Flights 11 and 175 did not hit the North and South Towers illustrates how the front-end and back-end techniques work together to divide and discredit the skeptics. Many skeptics point to the absence of public evidence that proves Flight 77 hit the Pentagon, and apparent evidence to the contrary, such as an absence of much recognizable debris from a 757 in photographs of the site, and a pattern of damage that seemed to be incommensurate with the impact of 757. In the absence of evidence theories flourished that something other than a jetliner crashed at the Pentagon, despite numerous eyewitness accounts supporting the crash of a jetliner. The Pentagon ‘no-plane’ theories helped to seed even more incredible theories that the Twin Towers were hit, not by jetliners, but by some other objects—despite considerable evidence that the impacts were, in fact, of Flights 11 and 175. The counterintuitive appearance of jetliners entering the towers would help to fuel these theories. After the attack “investigative reports” from neutral countries such as Spain and Canada would feed the idea that those crashes did not involve Boeing 767s at all, but rather the planes had been swapped or the crashes were simulated by various means. These dead-end theories would serve to discredit skeptics, soak up large amounts of their time, and divert attention from the core fraud of the attack— the Big Lie that the Twin Towers collapsed due to impacts and fires.
Errors such as these litter websites and books by sincere researchers attempting to discover the truth behind the attack. One of the goals of 911review.com is to highlight these errors and improve the quality of analysis in the community of skeptics.
How does that help your cause Nat?
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 8, 2005 at 2:50 AM
jesus 600+ comments…
Nitzche already declared that god was dead years ago.
Get with it people.
Posted by turdburgler on Nov 8, 2005 at 4:20 AM
Get hip, Turdbooger. 600 comments that you haven’t read.
Posted by luminous beauty on Nov 8, 2005 at 9:03 AM
Friedrich Nietzsche also said :
” there was only one true Christian, and he died on the cross. ” </i>
Posted by David in Canada on Nov 8, 2005 at 4:04 PM
Nietzsche said that David? Curious. That’s probably what unconsciously triggered my response when my frosh world history prof declared there had never been a single true Christian in all of history. I leapt up and said, “Well sir, perhaps One, but we all know what happened to Him.”
That made me a truly undeserving hero to all the Christians on campus for a week or so.
I guess I’ve always had a smart mouth. I knew some of it came from reading Nietzche in High School.
Posted by luminous beauty on Nov 8, 2005 at 4:57 PM
Wasn’t jesus jewish?
Posted by turdburgler on Nov 8, 2005 at 5:09 PM
A Nazarene, actually. According to extant accounts. Some believe he was an Alien.
Posted by luminous beauty on Nov 8, 2005 at 5:21 PM
Yes, Jesus was a Palestinian Jew.
Do you have anything worthwhile to contribute Turd?
Posted by David in Canada on Nov 8, 2005 at 5:34 PM
“How does that help your cause Nat?”
I’m actually trying to help your cause, Rabbit. If you insist on holding on to your demolition fantasy, at least refine your argument so you might have a chance of trying to convince someone beyond the choir.
That is what 911review is saying to Philip Berg and William Rodriguez.
911review and oilempire (they link to each other) appear to at least be half-way reasonable in what they buy into. (I think they’re still in outer-space somewhere) I would suggest putting a little more faith in them, and less in the sources that they disparage.
Looking forward to that trial…I hope it’s televised!!
Posted by Natalie on Nov 8, 2005 at 8:05 PM
i thought my joke was pretty worthwhile. I was surprised you got it.
Posted by turdburgler on Nov 8, 2005 at 8:34 PM
Turd,
Yes. Your comment was worthwhile and I apologize for my disparaging remark.
Any other jokes? I like to laugh.
Posted by David in Canada on Nov 8, 2005 at 8:50 PM
Rabbit is mostly in agreeance with 911.Review it is he who first posted the link Natty the Lying Batty. It doesn’t disparage any particular source or issue Rabbit believs in, it supports it, stupid girl. As for the other one, it said nothing, it merely attacked sites, and as said, Rabbit is aware form his own readings the criticism of some of those sites was right off the mark, had nothing to do with reality on that site, that is common tactic of Government propaganda. Of course you would think your games are just soo convincing and NOBODY could possibly doubt you are genuine and open minded and honest. If you knew how you came across to us you wouldn’t want to do it to yourself. besiders which it is us who are using you to propound the very well referenced and convincing argumenst against the official lie. If your lie theory doesn stand up to facts, it doesn’t Natty. No amount of repitition or screeching or petty character attacks are going to change something as big as this. You are labouring as Rabbit said to hide a Pink Elephant in the living room. It isn’t working. How was it you accounted for the seven LIVE SUICIDE BOMBERS NATTY?
William Rodriguez and twenty people have not formed a cabal within minutes of the collapse of those buildings to bring discredit on the government. theyc ame forward with their stories right from the start. They were ignored, officially ignored and an obvious conspiracy enacted to keep a lid on their story. WELL IT HASN’T WORKED. If we are the choir, Natty we are one hell of a big and growing one. OUR combined voices will utterly drown your lies out and will replace them with a genuine effort to find the truth and BRING THE PERPETRATORS TO JUSTICE!
Especially the mongrels who ordered and allowed it to happen.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 8, 2005 at 9:43 PM
Here is a little more jocularity :
Three Proofs that Jesus was Jewish :
He went into his father’s business.
He lived at home until the age of 33.
He thought his mother was a virgin, and his mother thought he was God.
click here for more
Posted by David in Canada on Nov 8, 2005 at 10:00 PM
Natalie the 911 review does not attack Rodriguez’ story, but more the way in which it is being handled legally. The thing to remember is that we already know the story of Rodriguez it was reported in enough detail from early on and has been consistent in that it allows for no doubt about there having been explosions in the building before the plane hit, someone was injured in it and there are more than a dozen random witnesses. The legal case may well be being mishadled, and it is not too hard to imagine that could be deliberate. As 911 Review says.
If websites can be created to sabotage 9/11 truth exposure by inserting discrediting memes, couldn’t a similar tactic be used in litigation? There have been accusations that lawsuits on behalf of 9/11 victims are designed to obstruct rather than elicit justice. One can imagine that a lawsuit could be designed to fail, and thereby discourage and foreclose subsequent legal action on behalf of the victims. However, it could be difficult to distinguish between intentional sabotage and mere incompetence in an unsuccessful lawsuit.
Here we examine three lawsuits filed behalf of victims which have serious flaws—flaws that could do more to damage the cause of 9/11 Truth exposure than help it.
Philip Berg’s Lawsuit on Behalf of Ellen Mariani
Stanley Hilton’s Lawsuit on Behalf of Able Ashes
Philip Berg’s Lawsuit on Behalf of William Rodriguez
The Witness report is still what it is, you read it above.
The 911 Review site has been wrong occasionally and it is an extremely conservative site as it happens.
But either you take the site seriously or you don’t natty. You accept the site is telling the truth based on facts, then you must explain what facts they have misunderstood to arrive at the following conclusion.
That the Twin Towers and Building 7 were destroyed through controlled demolition is immediately obvious from the fact that all three buildings fell straight down, maintaining symmetry about their vertical axes as they plunged at nearly free-fall rates.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 8, 2005 at 10:16 PM
Despite your innuendos to the contrary the site doesn’t list any of Rabbit’s trusted sources and he keeps telling you, Rense just disseminates news, via the original sites mostly, not biased except the in house articles. Which is normal.
The other site you mention is however listed by 911 review as DISINFO. Your bread and butter Natty.
Dissembling Websites
We show that the September 11, 2001 attack was a carefully engineered inside job similar to previous attacks such as the Oklahoma City bombing. In the aftermath of this attack, as in previous cases, a community of skeptics worked to expose the fraudulence of the official story. However, by 2001, the World Wide Web had become established as one of the principal modes of communication. It immediately became the main arena for the information wars surrounding the attack.
Given how much was invested in the success of the attack, it is only reasonable to expect that elaborate deceptions would be crafted to confuse and discredit the skeptics. A raft of websites have popped up since the attack promoting theories ranging from patantly absurd to subtle hoaxes. In some cases websites that had established reputations before the attack were used to inject nonsense into the discourse of 9/11 skeptics.
A case in point is 911review.org, which was originally rolled out in late 2003, just as 911Research.wtc7.net was coming into prominence. Our analysis of that site finds that it has the effect of discrediting skepticism of the official account of the attack, whether by design or incompetence.
9/11 Review REVIEWED
Another example was Physics911.net (originally Physics911.org) also rolled out in late 2003, with the ostensible goal of providing a Scientific Panel for the Investigation of Nine-Eleven (SPINE). Both 911Review.org and Physics911.net promoted hoaxes like the Pod-Plane and pushed implausible science-fiction scenarios like Operation Pearl.
Numerous other sites serving to discredit serious analysis of 9/11/01 lack the sophistication of 911review.org and Physics911.net. Some, such as letsroll911.org, are almost entirely devoted to amplifying the idea, supported by no evidence, that missiles were used in the attack on the Twin Towers. OilEmpire.us was the first site to provide a complete rundown on such sites in mid-2004—a time when several new such sites sprang up.
e x c e r p t
title: Bogus 9/11 websites Muddying the waters with easily disproved phony claims
authors: Mark Robinowitz
[T]he 9/11 truth movement has been having long overdue successes in shifting public consciousness many more people now understand that 9/11 was not a surprise attack. This is probably why bogus websites and fake films with easily disproved material have been developed, which distract from the best evidence of complicity. These websites promote the idea that blurry photos with illogical and supported claims should be the basis for 9/11 truth outreach efforts, instead of the issues surrounding the failure of the Air Force to intercept the hijacked planes[.]
site: oilempire.us page: oilempire.us/bogus.html
..............more
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 8, 2005 at 10:23 PM
Lip service to the core facts of the attack is sometimes used in dissembling sites to establish bona fides within segments of the 9/11 Truth Movement. For example, Victor Thorn, on the WingTV website, writes in “9-11 Bottom Line: Explosives in the WTC”:
As the 9-11 Truth Movement surges forward and attempts to determine who the guilty parties actually are, we likewise need to step-back for a moment and focus on what constitutes the crux of this matter. In other words, we’ve been expending so much energy on peripheral issues that we’re losing sight of the most damning act of all the explosive demolition of the World Trade Center towers and WTC7. Now this isn’t saying that the war games, our military stand-down, Flight 93, or the absence of a Boeing 757 at the Pentagon are unimportant; but in the end, none of these areas of study hold the potential to prove that our government was directly involved in the planning, execution, and cover-up of 9-11 as does the deliberate destruction of the twin towers. We shouldn’t be mamby-pambying around any longer with facilitation, negligence, or incompetence; we should be going straight for the throat by proving that these provocateurs engaged in a planned mass murder by placing bombs in these buildings
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 8, 2005 at 10:24 PM
As a matter of fact Rabbit finds the site to be somewhat questionable in it’s logic, it seems more into debunking on it’s own say so, and there are a lot of leaps of faith. If anything it said conflicted with anything else Rabbit already trusted, he would be forced to look with less favour upon it, it doesn’t even make a good case for the things it claims to support which rabbit finds interesting.
Point is Natty, the buildings were brought down with explosives no matter how you look at it. Physics, history, witnesses, visual evidence. Whistleblowers and obvious disinfo projects such as you just to top off the obvious culpability.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 8, 2005 at 10:29 PM
Natty hates Mr Griffin so much, she should be made to read another of his very excellent speeches. This one is well referenced too, Rabbit would be interested in any criticism of what he says, rather than Nat claiming he is on drugs. Somehow that just doesn’t cut it .
David Ray Griffin: 9/11 and the American Empire
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 8, 2005 at 11:48 PM
“But either you take the site seriously or you don
Posted by Natalie on Nov 8, 2005 at 11:58 PM
Now Natty the foot shooting Batty, has asked about polls. Athough she tried to put a spin on it having to do with explosives…........ nobody claimed any such thing….....there are plenty of polls about showing the distrust of even Americans, (Gullible creatures) for the official LIE.
Zogby, 2004
<blockquote>Half of New Yorkers Believe US Leaders Had Foreknowledge of Impending 9-11 Attacks and
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 9, 2005 at 12:20 AM
No Natty, you are wrong and have been shown to be already. The structures were not unique, they were of a standard type of construction, although there was an attempt by Fema to pretend they were missing certain struictural components early on. This was after the eveidence had been removed from the scene, and before the buildings plans became available. Thus the original structure was shown and it was not what the coverup report claimed. the engineers claims have all been dealt with above. You are pulling your claasic number of raising small pointeless objections, losing every single point along the way, and then pretending you’ve achieved some great feat of debating. You have failed as always to come across as anything but a desperate SHILL for the official lie. How irrational can you get than to ignore physics, witnesses, one’s own eyes and all the history of building fires and demolitions and still cling to a story which even a year ago didn’t wash with the most gullible people on earth. A story which includes a series of outright lies about what was known and what was done on the day. A story which ignored an entire third building collapse which had no plane crash. A story which lists nineteen men as suicide bombers, even after seven of them turn up alive and well.
You need to moderate your ideas a bit Natty you are coming across as a complete nutcase. Rabbit never knew and ANTI-government conspiracy theorist with as much craziness in their ideas. You are a lunatic, Natty, the above details are enough to prove that anybody who believes in the official story can only do so by ignoring all the facts and a huge amount of witnesses and whistleblowing evidence even. You are suggesting a far greater conspiracy than anything we are Natty, and what do we stand to gain with our great conspiracy?
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 9, 2005 at 1:06 AM
What are you now going on about you ignorant cow?
Why don’t you look at the facts and tell us what is wrong with whatever Jon Carlson has said. As for who he is, does it matter? Frankly Rabbit finds your innuendos so boring. He is not seeming to write everything, he wrote that article and he may have written something else we have posted. SO what? So bloody what?
you have a lot more important issues to address, before going into more character attcks on obscure people. The ZOGBY poll is good isn’t it Natty? Rabbit bets on that one year old poll alone that you are amongst a minority these days. you have the most corrupt and vicious governmnet on Earth Natty and it is not even an exageration to say so. You cannot continue to say they are above all suspicion when they have ignored so much crucial evidence and done so much to cover up the truth of what happened.
It just defies logic. you keep appealing to logic and reason, when the only illogical and unreasonable viewpoint is the one which accepts the TOTALLY discredited official lie.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 9, 2005 at 1:14 AM
By the way Natty the fall time of even twelve or fourteen seconds is still impossibly fast for a collapse under gravity alone. However, though this is the only fact you seem willing to accept on that site, which is called cherrypicking by the way, it is not PROOF that the time wasn’t closer to 10 seconds, and in fact the majority of claims are of ten seconds or less and they show how those times were arrived at. unlike the 911.Review, which simply makes the claim.
In truth Rabbit finds the 911.review to be less than the best referenced site. It also does oversimplify certain theories of others’ in it’s debunking. This is always something to be suspicious of. If someone needs to misrepresnt what another says in a debunking, much klike you often do Natalie, then you show only that you are misinformed and thus damages any other claims you make. Making a mistake, especially in the area of theory is quite forgiveable.
Deliberate lies, such as most of the official story has proven to be, is another matter altogether. Now whatever did happen on 911, it could not have happened without inside complicity. The WTCs did not fall down because of a couple of airliners and a bit of jet fuel, and the list of alleged hijackers is false, at least for seven of them.
Those things are facts. They mean the offiical story is a big fat lie and the fact that you struggle to defend it by avoiding reasonable debate on the IMPORTANT issues, shows you to be complicit in the lie.
A government propagandist has no business lecturing informed and decent people on honesty or reason.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 9, 2005 at 1:27 AM
The following is so false that it should by its own logic disqualify Natty from being taken seriously since the issues it tries to present are already blown away earlier.
<blockquote>I don
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 9, 2005 at 1:37 AM
Now this directly brings your LIE into sharp relief. by the way all this has been posted above.
On Feburary 13, 1965, real estate baron Lawrence Wien called reporters to his office to charge that the design of the Twin Towers was structurally unsound. Many suspected that his allegation was motivated by a desire to derail the planned World Trade Center skyscrapers to protect the value of his extensive holdings, which included the Empire State Building. In response to the charge, Richard Roth, partner at Emery Roth & Sons, the architectural firm that was designing the Twin Towers, fired back with a three-page telegram containing the following details. 5
THE STRUCTURAL ANALYSIS CARRIED OU BY THE FIRM OF WORTHINGTON, SKILLING, HELLE & JACKSON IS THE MOST COMPLETE AND DETAILED OF ANY EVER MADE FOR ANY BUILDING STRUCTURE. THE PRELIMINARY CALCULATIONS ALONE COVER 1,200 PAGES AND INVOLVE OVER 100 DETAILED DRAWINGS.
...
4. BECAUSE OF ITS CONFIGURATION, WHICH IS ESSENTIALLY THAT OF A STEEL BEAM 209’ DEEP, THE TOWERS ARE ACTUALLY FAR LESS DARING STRUCTURALLY THAN A CONVENTIONAL BUILDING SUCH AS THE EMPIRE STATE BUILDING WERE THE SPINE OR BRACED AREA OF THE BUILDING IS FAR SMALLER IN RELATION TO ITS HEIGHT.
...
5. THE BUILDING AS DESIGNED IS SIXTEEN TIMES STIFFER THAN A CONVENTIONAL STRUCTURE. THE DESIGN CONCEPT IS SO SOUND THAT THE STRUCTURAL ENGINEER HAS BEEN ABLE TO BE ULTRA-CONSERVATIVE IN HIS DESIGN WITHOUT ADVERSELY AFFECTING THE ECONOMICS OF THE STRUCTURE. ...
At the time the Twin Towers were built, the design approach of moving the support columns to the perimeter and the core, thereby creating large expanses of unobstructed floor space, was relatively new, and unique for a skyscraper. However, that approach is commonplace in contemporary skyscrapers.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 9, 2005 at 1:39 AM
Lots of Rabbit words but Liars need help to bury themselves. There are hundreds of different references to the structure of the WTCs from before and since 911, Rabbit has used one, but he could have chosen more and there are of course the original WTC info sites still around. The only sites which call the structural integrity into question are those which have sprung up since 911 to try and spread a myth, which is hereby, debunked. They only do this by talking in generalities, and by misrepresenting the actual structure. If it seems too much to believe that your government could so blatantly lie and decieve, even to the extent of spreading false propaganda, that is too bad. The fact of this can be established merely by looking at the details and comparing them with the official lie.
It is not nice to realise our government has become a threat to our lives and our freedoms, but it would be worse not to know it.
If there was even a shadow of a case for the official lie, don’t you think that a government shill, like Natty, she is the real deal folks, would try and make it? Instead of just pulling obvious avoidance and petty character assasinations of any and all who would witness against the lie.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 9, 2005 at 1:59 AM
Things that make us go Hmmm..
SPANISH SKYSCRAPER FIRE RAISES
QUESTIONS ABOUT 9/11 COLLAPSES
By Christopher Bollyn
American Free Press
The fact that a Spanish skyscraper is still standing after an intense
fire consumed the steel and concrete tower for 24 hours provides real
world evidence that fire alone does not cause high-rise towers to
collapse.
As an intense fire consumed the 32-story Windsor Building in Madrid’s
business district, the press reports all began with the words “fear
of collapse.” After 24 hours, however, the tower, which was a similar
construction to the twin towers of the World Trade Center, remained
standing.
The fact that an extremely severe fire did not cause the Spanish
steel and concrete tower to collapse raises serious questions about
the events of 9/11 and how they have been explained. Why did the
Windsor Building remain standing when similar towers in New York City
collapsed completely after being affected by much less intense fires
burning for considerably shorter periods of time?
The Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) sponsored engineers to
conduct the World Trade Center Building Performance Study (BPS) to
examine how the buildings of the WTC responded to the airplane
crashes and fires that allegedly caused the collapses of the twin
towers and WTC 7, a 47-story office building on the next block.
“Prior to September 11, 2001, there was little, if any, record of
fire-induced collapse of large fire-protected steel buildings,” the
BPS says in the chapter about the mysterious collapse of WTC 7, the
third tower to collapse on 9/11. WTC 7 was not hit by aircraft or
large pieces of debris and had only sporadic fires. At about 5:25
p.m., WTC 7, owned by Larry Silverstein, collapsed in what appeared
to be a controlled demolition.
It would be more accurate to say that no steel framed high-rise, like
WTC 7, has ever collapsed due to fire. The fact that the Windsor
Building is still standing is proof that fire alone does not cause
properly constructed steel and concrete towers to collapse.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 9, 2005 at 2:08 AM
Rabbit already knows what Natty will say to the last one.
She will start by wanting to know who Christopher Bollyn is, or she’ll just say he is on drugs or something. Wasn’t that what she said about Griffin…... on Drugs?
She’s a sharp debater our Natty.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 9, 2005 at 2:11 AM
I don’t know who Chris Bollyn is, apparently nobody does, but it would appear that even little ol’ me has better investigative skills than he.
It didn’t take more than three or four seconds to learn that the Madrid building fire actually strengthened the WTC collapse theory put forth by the nerds.
<i>“Because of the height of the structure and the extent of the blaze, firefighters could only mount a containment operation and ensure that neighbouring buildings were protected. The fire eventually finished 26 hours later, leaving a complete burn-out above the fifth floor. The steel-glass fa
Posted by Natalie on Nov 9, 2005 at 9:52 AM
Nattys post isn’t worthy of comment.
You are not making any case Natty. Rabbit will now start buring you in technical Proof, which is hardly necessary because for anyone who has read all above, the matter is closed. The following has already been posted but you need reminding obviously. The fact that there were some differences in structure, is certainly no more important than the fact the fire burned MUCH hotter for 26 hours.
AGAIN
<blockquote>On Feburary 13, 1965, real estate baron Lawrence Wien called reporters to his office to charge that the design of the Twin Towers was structurally unsound. Many suspected that his allegation was motivated by a desire to derail the planned World Trade Center skyscrapers to protect the value of his extensive holdings, which included the Empire State Building. In response to the charge, Richard Roth, partner at Emery Roth & Sons, the architectural firm that was designing the Twin Towers, fired back with a three-page telegram containing the following details. 5
THE STRUCTURAL ANALYSIS CARRIED OU BY THE FIRM OF WORTHINGTON, SKILLING, HELLE & JACKSON IS THE MOST COMPLETE AND DETAILED OF ANY EVER MADE FOR ANY BUILDING STRUCTURE. THE PRELIMINARY CALCULATIONS ALONE COVER 1,200 PAGES AND INVOLVE OVER 100 DETAILED DRAWINGS.
...
4. BECAUSE OF ITS CONFIGURATION, WHICH IS ESSENTIALLY THAT OF A STEEL BEAM 209
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 9, 2005 at 6:54 PM
Fat lot of good that does you anyway. The concrete Center is a trade site and it draws a comparison between the two in the way it does in an attempt to promote concrete. Hardly what one could call an impartial comment on the overall design similarities or differences. That is beside the point anyway because the statement refers only to the Interim NIST report which we have already proven relied on false design parameters, and is itself under a substantial clowd in every important respect. This is a typical way you mob of Clowns in the US JUNTA and it’s ORGANS go about trying to pervert the truth, and too many of us are awake up for it to do any good anymore.
You feed some lies into the system via false reports. You then point to the reports in the media and elsewhere about those reports and even when the logic of your theories falls down you can still point to the false reports and claiming at least the facts are proven by them being thus reported.
How stupid do you think people are? Obviously you must think we are dumber than you, we’re not. Your masters may hold the guns and curfews over us for a short while Natty, but sooner or later you lot will have to answer to the people,m we can flick you pricks of our collective back like a bug, when finally you annoy us enough.
Of course Rabbit could just answer the Natty’s post by saying like she would, Who exactly has written this site? How can Rabbit see who the person is? How qualified he is, Where is his data referenced anywhere?, Beware of unsourced claims is a good motto. Well Natty Rabbit prefers to use his common sense and he can see that the site seems genuinely to be trying to sell concrete to industry. It revels in concret and that is all. It certainly does not include anything of use to the case as it does no more than refer to a report, which is full of inconsistencies, errors and omissions. You have long since lost the NIST report as anything of subsatnce so best you avoid it’s use in future. You see it is the thing we are discrediting here. What a Daft girl Natty is.
There is also this however on the Concrete selling site, from England, about the Windsor Tower and it does contrast with the WTCs because they did have modern fire proofing despite an early attempt by NIST to claim otherwise.
The building was in the process of refurbishment and fireproofing to modern standards when the fire occurred; some fireproofing was being provided on the steel perimeter columns
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 9, 2005 at 7:17 PM
The so called Investigation is given a very well researched treatement here, and if anyone wishes to claim the FEMA report is anything but shallow piss meant to cover a bigger stain, they had better be prepared to tackle “ALL” the issues on that site. That doesn’t include the authors even, because it is in black and white. The report is there and so is a commentary with references all the way.
So Rabbit calls you Natty, get out of the ditch and spin a better spell my gel, that one didn’t go so well. How do you explain 7 live Suicide Bombers Natty? since you have failed to give any cover to any other part of the elephant.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 9, 2005 at 7:29 PM
More of the Choir Natty?
Marin County Post
Four Years Later-More Questions Than Answers On 9/11
By Stephen Simac
It’s the fourth anniversary of the Attack on America and two official investigations into the events have been made public, more or less. The joint congressional hearings (see Coastal Post, Sept. 03) and the independent 9/11 commission (CP, Sept./ Oct. 04 ) have each issued reports that exonerated all government officials and agencies for their failure to prevent the attacks.
It’s easy to understand why the joint inquiry backed off blaming anyone. During their investigation the members and their staff were interrogated using lie detectors by the FBI. This was after an NSA document was leaked, about a phone call by known terrorists that had not been translated until after the “big day.” Senator McCain, a member complained about the FBI “compiling dossiers on people who are investigating” the agency.
Huge portions of their report were classified, including the whole chapter on Saudi Arabia involvement. The joint committee did find enough damaging evidence that a second investigation was held because of pressure from the families of the victims.
The 9/11 Commission was formed against the wishes of the Bush administration, then given only $3 million to work with at first. Clearances for the members were delayed until they had less than a year to finish. They did find documented warnings of terrorist plans to hijack airplanes and crash them into the Pentagon and the WTC towers. These warnings went back for years, increasing in intensity during the summer of 2001.
They found abject failures to follow protocol, to share vital information, to take action on actionable intelligence, to act in a timely manner, even suppression of investigations into the terrorists’ cells. (see CP Sept. Oct. 2004).
Nevertheless, no one was held responsible by the independent commission. There was no buck to stop. No resignations, demotions, administrative warnings or public scolding have resulted from the official findings of the 9/11 commission. Documented, widespread incompetence and failures to act on their duties by numerous federal agencies and individuals and none at fault.
Some agents who had direct responsibility were actually promoted. All agencies involved have been given more funding and powers, after miserably failing with already gargantuan budgets and permissive regulations. The independent commission’s recommendations for restructuring the intelligence community were enacted into law. This will cost hundreds of billions more over the next decades, but they chose not to blame anyone who had wasted trillions over decades spent on intelligence and defense.
“We’re not interested in trying to assess blame, we do not consider that the commission’s responsibility.,” the vice chair admitted before they began hearings. The investigations and public hearings were carefully orchestrated to lay down a covering fire for the administration’s explanations for the failures. Only a failure of imagination, autistic communication skills and developmental delay in connecting the dots were responsible. And no one could be blamed for this.
The choir is big and it is diverse.
What does Nat have? A Glee Club? A duo maybe?
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 9, 2005 at 8:12 PM
[url=“http://tinyurl.com/dfy93”]Taking a Closer Look: Hard Science and the Collapse of the World Trade Center
[/url]
by Dave Heller, article originally appeared in Garlic and Grass
While it may be difficult to awaken everyone from their state-induced fog of fear, we are at a critical point in history which requires us to try. We truly must take an objective look at the facts and evidence surrounding 9-11.
While none of the many 9-11 researchers knows exactly what happened on that fateful day in September almost 3 years ago, any sensible person can easily spot dozens of inconsistencies in the official story that is being forced upon us.
And these inconsistencies are huge. They range from the apparent stand-down of our immense military arsenal (for over an hour and a half) to the small hole and lack of debris at the Pentagon. There was Bush’s bizarre, uninterrupted photo op in a Florida elementary school, and then there is the matter of the remains of Flight 93 being scattered over eight miles of Pennsylvania farmland, a fact which suggests the plane may have been shot down. The official story seems wrong on all of these points.
But the focus of this article is on just one point: the odd collapse of the three buildings in the World Trade Center complex.
Dave Heller, who has degrees in physics and architecture, is a builder and engaged citizen in Berkeley, California.
More Choir, Natty
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 10, 2005 at 2:20 AM
“A light structural element can heat up quickly and the resulting expansion can produce an outward bulging away from the slab edge which can create internal flues if it happens before the facade glazing breaks.”
source
“The Windsor Tower was completely gutted by the fire on 12 February 2005. A large portion of the floor slabs above the 17th Floor progressively collapsed during the fire when the unprotected steel perimeter columns on the upper levels buckled and collapsed (see Figure 1). It was believed that the massive transfer structure at the 17th Floor level resisted further collapse of the building.”
“The fire protection on the existing steelworks below the 17th floor had been completed at the time of fire except for the 9th and 15th floors. When the fire spread below the 17th floor, those protected perimeter columns survived, except for the unprotected columns at the 9th and 15th floors which all buckled in the multiple floor fire (see Figure 2). However, they did not cause any structural collapse. Obviously, the applied loads supported by these buckled columns had been redistributed to the remaining reinforced concrete shear walls. Nevertheless, structural fire analysis should be carried out before such a conclusion can be drawn.” (Trustworthy Fire Engineers)
source
“In fact, comparisons between the Windsor tower and the WTC towers are limited because of the very different structures of these buildings. The Twin Towers and Building 7 were both 100% steel-framed, with columns consisting of box-beams and I-beams as much as three feet wide and of steel up to several inches thick. In contrast, the Windsor building was framed in steel-reinforced concrete, with columns of concrete reinforced by thin sections of rebar. The concrete pillars in the Windsor building are clearly visible in the photographs showing the intact core exposed by the collapsed facade. It is not clear what materials were used to frame the perimeter, but their apparent thinness indicates that the the core was the main load-bearing component of the building.” (911better_but_still_in_denial_research)
source
Now, after reading all about the Windsor tower from a variety of sources, aside from the obvious conclusion you should draw, which is that unprotected steel buckles and collapses, are you prepared to admit that the article by Chris Bollyn that contained this:
“After 24 hours, however, the tower, which was a similar construction to the twin towers of the World Trade Center, remained standing.”
should be put in the circular file?
And your last article is yet another example of someone we’re suppose to take seriously yet who doesn’t demonstrate either the knowledge or the honesty to point out the unique construction of the trade towers, as opposed to other conventional steel buildings.
One can only conclude that the author is either ignorant, or a propagandist. My hunch is both.
Posted by Natalie on Nov 10, 2005 at 9:20 AM
Found this :
religious quiz
This is the God Squad thread and since only the hardcores are still reading these commments I have posted it here.
I have taken a similar quiz before. If anyone has another worth taking (not saying this one is) please share it.
Posted by David in Canada on Nov 10, 2005 at 8:39 PM
David’s results :
You fit in with:
Taoism
Your ideals mostly resemble those of the Taoist faith. Spirituality is the most important thing in your life. You strive to live by all of your ideals, and live a very intellectually focused life.
50% spiritual.0% reason-oriented.
Posted by David in Canada on Nov 10, 2005 at 8:41 PM
Natalie, the best you can muster is to raise a small possibility that the towers might have fallen from fire alone, do you not get it?
If we are generous and grant you this, which can only be done by taking the best of what you have posted and ignore the sources Rabbit has posted, and most all he has said, if we grant you it “could somehow in the realms of possibility, have happened three times in a row, on one day like this, then all that means is it is possible. It doesn’t prove it did happen. Do you know what most destroys your case? The ONLY thing the government has to do to establish the credibility of their story which is losing ground daily, is to release what they have still got of the eveidenece they have witheld. There will be enough just in a few videos and some recorded converstions, to completely demolish the entire alternative theory crowd. There can only be ONE reason they would not do that, Natalie, and do you know what that is? ———————————WE DO!
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 10, 2005 at 8:55 PM
Do you think picking apart the details of the two buildings comparisons is going to help the bigger picture?
If the structural case for the WTC collapses was sound, has it not occurred to Natty that four years down the track, these theories would be going the way of several others which have come along and been discredited?. Sure you still atrribute some of those theories to us, the redundancy of some of your posts has been in attending to things nobody here was claiming. The fact is that the theory of explosive demolition of the buildings has been the most consistently growing cause celebre. Not just more and more ordinary people, but most crucially as you recognise, more and more experts and influential people.
The official case for the buildings collapse always was shaky, and the best that can be said of it is it is collapsing more slowly than the WTCs. That it is collapsing can be witnessed by the size and growth rate of our Choir<> as evdenced by many of the above sources and a few more which have just arrived into the world, which will be added shortly.
It is collapsing, and you can’t make a case for The Junta withholding the evidence which would exonerate it in the face of mounting world hostility, distrust and the same from many of it’s own citizens. WE the doubting and swelling multitudes are saying we believe they did it, and everything points to that, and the best they do to disprove it, is to send people like you out onto the internet to rattle the debate a bit. Now propaganda has its uses, sure, but if you have the EVIDENCE, a couple videos and a few recordings of Firefighters who were not on a secret Mission for Gods sake.
WHAT THE HELL IS SO SECRETIVE ABOUT THE RADIO COMMUNICATIONS BETWEN FIREMEN HELPING TO SAVE LIVES ON 911?<b>
Why keep them secret when the result is about half of Americans are ready to believe their government committed and atrociously cynical mass murder on home soil?
<b>AND What is so important to be kept secret on a privately owned video which shows a plane crashing into the PENTAGON, if that is all it shows?
Unless you can answer these questions Natalie, then you ducking the most important and damning TRUTH. If you even try to answer those questions, the ONLY conclusion is that you are a Government SHILL. There are no answers which will convince even a six year old.
Scene: Six year old kid sees Dad pick up something off the ground.
Kid: <i>What was that?
Dad: Nothing
Kid: Behind your back
Dad: I’m holding nothing behind my back
Kid: Show me
.....
Kid: The other hand
Dad: No
Does the kid believe the father? Should he?
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 10, 2005 at 9:20 PM
Curious Monkey
You like the little qyuizzy things don’t you. Have you seen Rabbit’s Billy Cart Story on another thread?
Oh yes
Rabbit is placed thus on this monkey ladder:
Spiritualism
Your ideals are mostly spiritual, but in an individualistic way. While spirituality is very important in your life, organized religion itself may not be for you. It is best for you to seek these things on your own terms.
80% spiritual.
60% reason-oriented.
Well what does one expect for an Gnostic Rabbit.
......................................Shiny Rabbit...................................^^...........................
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 10, 2005 at 9:28 PM
Climb the Monkey Ladder please Natty, let us see where you end up.
Go forth and proselytise Dave, let your curiosity be your guide, sally forth and survey the site for the rest like the busy Monkey does best. Rabbit is suddenly quite interested in the results of this quizzy thing. It is simple and kind of cute but it will do for a show, push it and let us see how it goes.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 10, 2005 at 9:33 PM
Natty who talks of unprotected steel buckling and twisting, is forgetting the steel in the WTC was fire proofed. There were some attempts to claim it was not, early on like other structural lies which were set to rights once the plans and the rest of the information was examined, this one was tossed out. the fact that the Spanish Windsor building did not have fireproofing was being rectified when the accident happened. The main thing from this incident to be gleaned is that after more than 24 hours of very hot fire, and a similar overall design the building did not collapse.
It is also only one example, there are plenty more and some are referred to in sources already given. The end is nigh for you attempt at a case, you never got even one block on the ground, you might as well pack it in. seriously.
In the event you still have need of more humiliation, and Rabbit is glad as always to oblige, but then you should get down to the serious stuff and stop playing with pebbles. The rocks have been identified, by Rabbit. he can list them, but will only rub your nose in it while doing so, so best to try showing you have some brains and powers of comprehension, and address the ROCKS.
HINT:
Rabbit post of 11:28 is a pretty fair sized boulder. But it is among peers. You Natalie are not my dear.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 10, 2005 at 9:43 PM
Here is what the quiz thought of me today,I might answer the questions differently,depending on my mood.
You fit in with:
Humanism
Your ideals mostly resemble that of a Humanist. Although you do not have a lot of faith, you are devoted to making this world better, in the short time that you have to live. Humanists do not generally believe in an afterlife, and therefore, are committed to making the world a better place for themselves and future generations.
30% scientific.
60% reason-oriented.
In case anyone cares…:-)
Posted by Kaw Valley Kid on Nov 10, 2005 at 11:02 PM
Kaw Valley Kid - thanks for sharing the results
I hoped you would be one of the hardcores still visiting this thread. Did you ever take this one :
Posted by David in Canada on Nov 10, 2005 at 11:43 PM
Rabbit cares KVK, thanks, it is interesting and a pattern is forming of how the results compare. This one is harder to predict than the Political compass, since mostly it is politics which is on display on these threads. Nevertheless the pattern is beggining to form, now he sees these three.
What will the Vampire be?
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 11, 2005 at 2:28 AM
So Dave, does the HTML code writtend like this go OK, Rabbit got into trouble before somewhere trying to post that to someone and the electrons were thieving it.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 11, 2005 at 2:30 AM
By the way, has Natty ever said thankyou for the HTML tips?
She was thanked for the Tinyurls when we finally sorted out the things about postings, and she was graciously offered some of the nice new fruit thereafter, the combination of which has made us all feel much cleverer.
But has there ever been an acknowledgement of the niceness of people, and Rabbits who so easily and generously shared of their bounty?
Just a little sniffy Rabbit remark.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 11, 2005 at 2:35 AM
Dude! Formidable thread! You guys really are hardcore!
Posted by Kuya on Nov 11, 2005 at 3:26 AM
;-) God love the lot of ya
Posted by Kuya on Nov 11, 2005 at 3:29 AM
OK David, as I write this NPR is saying there might be more in common with the Dalai Lama and neuro-physicists than you might think. Not news to me, particularly, but an interesting moment of synchronicity. So I took your silly quiz and got some good chuckles out of it. Like wondering if I ever believed in the Easter Bunny. I was wondering who would admit to being even the tiniest bit gullible, when I thought, ‘hey, I got roped into taking this silly quiz, am I gullible.’ It was fun, and oh yeah, my results:
Spiritualism
Your ideals are mostly spiritual, but in an individualistic way. While spirituality is very important in your life, organized religion itself may not be for you. It is best for you to seek these things on your own terms.
80% spiritual.
80% reason-oriented.
Posted by luminous beauty on Nov 11, 2005 at 6:55 AM
Rabbit, always works for me. Except that one time just above. I was getting ready to paste in the URL and it was like the submit button got clicked. Eager electrons. Thanks for sharing your results and the encouragement to bring the quiz to the others.
Luminous Beauty, I wondered the same thing about believing in Easter Bunny so I just answered as best I could. I think it was a poke at faith/belief systems. The recant on your death bed question was tricky too. I recant every day, sometimes several times a day. hee hee. Thanks for sharing the results.
Posted by David in Canada on Nov 11, 2005 at 10:23 AM
I know about that pesky submit button. Forgot about the death bed question. Also pretty funny. I both hope and suspect the moment I cease recanting (i.e., learning something new that forces me to re-evaluate my level of understanding and depth of wonder in the world) is likely to be the moment I die. After that I rather suspect I’ll be making a brand new set of mistakes.
Posted by luminous beauty on Nov 11, 2005 at 11:07 AM
Luminous Beauty, what is NPR?
Posted by David in Canada on Nov 11, 2005 at 11:25 AM
Luminous Beauty and anyone else who cares to, please email me :
braverdave@hotmail.com
I promise I am not a stalker and do not have cooties :)
Just want to discuss some things on a personal and off topic level sometimes.
Posted by David in Canada on Nov 11, 2005 at 5:05 PM
Sitting here in front of the computer, drinking a beer (excellent local craft/micro brewery), dinner in the oven.
In small print on the label of the beer bottle :
” drink locally .. think globally ”
I like the idea of a group of friends stretched out across the world. All different but the same. All knowing others and knowing themselves.
Posted by David in Canada on Nov 11, 2005 at 5:14 PM
Maudlin Monkey
Rabbit felt it is a good day for Pina Colada in the sun. Saturday morning and people keep coming in the door, giving Rabbit money. Some take away boats, others are paying boats off for christmas, it is fun, collecting the money but the Pina Colada and peace pipe help pass the time in between. Mrs rabbit will be along soon to pillage Rabbit’s pockets she has an instinct for these things.
Thanks Kuya, we don’t take prisoners, it is true. We build these whopping great big threads sometimes too, just because we can.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 11, 2005 at 9:26 PM
Rabbit sincerely hopes this is the vinegar stroke for the Natty.
The Choir seems to have had quite a recruiting run of late nayy, and the following is kinda cool.
<blockquote>By Elaine Jarvik
Deseret Morning News
The physics of 9/11
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 12, 2005 at 1:38 AM
<blockquote>In a 9,000-word article that Jones says will be published in the book “The Hidden History of 9/11,” by Elsevier, Jones offers these arguments:
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 12, 2005 at 1:39 AM
Hey, not bad, Rabby. You finally found someone with some actual credentials in a field that is somewhat applicable to the subject at hand. And as predicted, you were eager to crow about him, even after repeatedly poo-pooing other professionals. Of course I understand it would be unfair for me to suspect that this guy has been “gotten to”, or has other motivations. (because of the exemption.)
I must point out though that like Griffin, who he referenced along with the other usual suspects, he provides very little original thinking and relies on the same old repeated and nearly identical propaganda we’ve grown so familiar with. He did drop a brick, though. And he makes solar cookers.
How was it to actually read an account from the real news media? Must have startled you cuz you quickly retreated back to your comfort zone.
Was Barbara among the passengers?
Posted by Natalie on Nov 12, 2005 at 4:38 AM
NataLIE, Such a graceful concession.
Posted by luminous beauty on Nov 12, 2005 at 6:24 AM
Not that formidable, Kuya. If you just ignore the flame war between Rabbit and Natalie, the thread boils down to approximately twenty-three posts.
Getting back to the topic of the day:
Q: What do you get when you cross an atheist with a Jehovah’s Witness?
A: Someone who knocks on doors for no apparent reason.
Posted by Major Major on Nov 12, 2005 at 7:53 AM
Three people were about to be executed during the Reign of Terror in the French Revolution: a Rabbi, a Priest and a Secular Humanist.
The executioner dragged the Rabbi from the cart and shoved him onto the platform of the guillotine.
“Have you any last words for the crowd before you die?”, he asked.
“I believe in the one, true God,” he shouted, “the God of Abraham and Moses. He will save me from this ignominious demise.”
The executioner forced his head into the cradle of guillotine, locked it in place, raised the blade and released it. The blade dropped to within one centimeter of the Rabbi’s neck and, Thump!, stopped.
“Oooh, a miracle!”, cried the crowd, and the executioner was compelled to release the Rabbi.
“Told you so.”, said the Rabbi.
The executioner then siezed the Priest and ordered him to speak his mind before he died.
“I believe in the Holy Trinity”, declared the Priest, “the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. He will save me in my moment of need.”
Once again, the executioner raised and released the blade, and once again, it dropped short of the Priest’s neck.
“Another miracle.”, muttered the crowd.
The executioner released the Priest and forced the Secular Humanist to the platform.
“So what have you got to say for yourself.”, he asked, but the Secular Humanist simply stared at the terrible contraption, eyes glazed, slack-jawed, sweat dripping from his face.
The executioner poked him in the ribs and demanded a few words for the crowd.
“Aha!”, said the Secular Humanist, “There’s the problem. There’s an obstruction in the gear assembly. Right there!”
Posted by Major Major on Nov 12, 2005 at 8:34 AM
A minister is hiking through the woods one Sunday after delivering his sermon. As he is walking along, he spots a hungry bear. Unfortunately for the minister, the bear spots him, and begins to chase him through the forest.
At first, it appears that the minister might make it, but the chase wears on, and the bear begins to gain on the minister. Finally, the minister trips on a rock, and knowing he had no other chance, begins to pray.
“Lord,” says the man, “I’ll never ask you for anything, ever again, but please, hear my prayer. Dear God, make this bear a Christian.” The minister turns around and, to his surprise and joy, the bear stops in his tracks. His paws together and his head bowed in prayer, the bear says, “Lord, thank you for this food I am about to eat!”
Posted by David in Canada on Nov 12, 2005 at 10:44 AM
another variation ...
An atheist was taking a walk through the woods, admiring all that the accident of evolution had created. “What majestic trees! What powerful rivers! What beautiful animals!” he said to himself.
As he walked alongside the river he heard a rustling in the bushes behind him. He turned to look, just in time to see a 7-foot grizzly charge towards him. He ran as fast as he could up the path. He looked over his shoulder & saw the bear closing in on him. He tried to run even faster, so scared that tears were coming to his eyes. He looked over his shoulder again, and the bear was even closer.
His heart was pumping frantically as he tried to run even faster, but he tripped and fell on the ground. He rolled over to pick himself up and saw the bear right on top of him raising his paw to kill him.
At that instant, he cried out, “Oh my God!”
Just then, time stopped… The bear froze; the forest was silent; even the river stopped moving. A bright light shone upon the man, and a voice came out of the sky, saying, “You deny My existence all of these years; teach others I don’t exist; even credit My creation to a cosmic accident, and now do you expect Me to help you out of this predicament? Am I to count you as a believer?”
The atheist, ever so proud, looked into the light and said, “It would be rather hypocritical to ask to be a Christian after all these years. But could you make the bear a Christian?”
“Very well,” said the voice.
As the light went out, the river ran, the sounds of the forest continued, and the bear put his paw down. The man breathed a sigh of relief. Then the bear brought both paws together, bowed his head and said: “Lord, I thank you for this food, which I am about to receive.”
Posted by David in Canada on Nov 12, 2005 at 10:46 AM
Does evil exist?
The university professor challenged his students with this question. Did God create everything that exists? A student bravely replied, “Yes, he did!”
“God created everything? The professor asked.
“Yes sir”, the student replied.
The professor answered, “If God created everything, then God created evil since evil exists, and according to the principal that our works define who we are then God is evil”. The student became quiet before such an answer. The professor was quite pleased with himself and boasted to the students that he had proven once more that the Christian faith was a myth.
Another student raised his hand and said, “Can I ask you a question professor?”
“Of course”, replied the professor.
The student stood up and asked, “Professor, does cold exist?”
“What kind of question is this? Of course it exists. Have you never been cold?” The students snickered at the young man’s question.
The young man replied, “In fact sir, cold does not exist. According to the laws of physics, what we consider cold is in reality the absence of heat. Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-460 degrees F) is the total absence of heat; all matter becomes inert and incapable of reaction at that temperature. Cold does not exist. We have created this word to describe how we feel if we have no heat.”
The student continued, “Professor, does darkness exist?”
The professor responded, “Of course it does.”
The student replied, “Once again you are wrong sir, darkness does not exist either. Darkness is in reality the absence of light. Light we can study, but not darkness. In fact we can use Newton’s prism to break white light into many colors and study the various wavelengths of each color. You cannot measure darkness. A simple ray of light can break into a world of darkness and illuminate it. How can you know how dark a certain space is? You measure the amount of light present. Isn’t this correct? Darkness is a term used by man to describe what happens when there is no light present.”
Finally the young man asked the professor, “Sir, does evil exist?”
Now uncertain, the professor responded, “Of course as I have already said. We see it every day. It is in the daily example of man’s inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil.”
To this the student replied, “Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is not like faith, or love that exist just as does light and heat. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God’s love present in his heart. It’s like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light.”
The professor sat down.
Posted by David in Canada on Nov 12, 2005 at 10:49 AM
another variation ...
A college class was led by an atheist professor, and every day he’d stand in front of his class and say, “Have you ever seen God?” to which nobody would answer. Then he’d ask, “Have you ever felt God?” and nobody would answer. Finally he’d ask, “Have you ever heard God?” and, like the other times, nobody would answer. He then would say, “It is obvious that there is no God.”
One day a Christian student had been having an extremely bad day; her car broke down, her mother was sick, her boyfriend was out of town, and she’d gotten a bad grade on one of her exams. She had been fed up with her professor’s little act every morning, so she decided to do something about it.
While the professor stood up at the beginning of class and did his thing, the student had an idea. She got up and said, “Professor, would you mind if I said something?” He said, “Of course not. This is an expressive classroom, and I think it would be fine if you spoke your mind.”
The girl said to the class, “Have you ever seen our professor’s brain?” and nobody answered. Then she asked, “Have you ever felt our professor’s brain?” and nobody answered. Finally she asked, “Have you ever heard our professor’s brain?” and, like the other times, nobody answered.
She then said, “It is quite obvious that our professor has no brain.”
Posted by David in Canada on Nov 12, 2005 at 10:50 AM
and yet another ...
An atheist professor was teaching a college class and he told the class that he was going to prove that there is no God.
He said, “God, if you are real, then I want you to knock me off this platform. I’ll give you 15 minutes!”
Ten minutes went by.
The professor kept taunting God, saying, “Here I am, God. I’m still waiting.”
He got down to the last couple of minutes and a Marine just released from active duty, and newly registered in the class, walked up to the professor, hit him full force in the face, and sent him flying from his platform.
The professor struggled up, obviously shaken and yelled, “What’s the matter with you? Why did you do that?”
The Marine replied, “God was busy, so He sent me.”
Posted by David in Canada on Nov 12, 2005 at 10:51 AM
The original
The Preacher and the Bear
A Preacher went out huntin, t’was on one Sunday morn
He knew its against his religion, but he took his gun along
He shot himself three mighty fine quail
and one little measly hare
And on his way returning home,
he saw a great big Grizzly Bear
Now the bear marched out in the middle of the road
and waltzed to the Preacher you see
The Preacher got so excited, he climbed up a ‘simmon tree
The bear sat down upon the ground,
the Preacher climbed out on a limb
Well he cast his eyes to the Lord in the skies,
and these words he said to Him
Oh Lordy, didn’t you deliver Daniel from the lion’s den
Also, deliver Jonah, from the belly of a whale and then
Three Hebrew children from the fiery furnace
so the Good Book do declare
Now Oh Lord, if you can’t help me,
well then please don’t-cha help that bear
Now the Preacher was up in that tree,
I think it was all night
He said Mr Bear if you bother me,
I’ll give you an awful fight
Just about that time the limb let go
and the Preacher came tumblin’ down
You could see him getting his razor out
before he hit the ground
He hit the ground cuttin’ right and left,
he put up a very game fight
Just then the bear grabbed the Preacher,
and he squeezed him a little too tight
The Preacher dropped his razor, the bear held on with a vim
Well he cast his eyes to the Lord in the skies
and these words he said to Him
Oh Lordy, didn’t you deliver Daniel from the lion’s den
Also, deliver Jonah, from the belly of a whale and then
Three Hebrew children from the fiery furnace
so the Good Book do declare
Now Oh Lord, if you can’t help me,
well then please don’t-cha help that bear
They fought all the way to the river,
it was a terrible fight
That bear just kept a-hanging on,
but the Preacher was a-doing all right
He dragged that beast right down in the water
it was three times in and out
Then the bear got up and he limped away
and the Preacher began to shout
Oh, Lordy, didn’t you deliver Daniel from the lion’s den
Also, deliver Jonah, from the belly of a whale, Amen,
And oh Lord, it may not seem like much from way up there,
But the hardest thing I ever done was baptize that (bleep bleep) bear.
Composed or copyrighted in 1903 by George W. Fairman.
Posted by luminous beauty on Nov 12, 2005 at 11:14 AM
I posted this on another thread but I don’t think anyone but chopper read it.
A young couple were on their way through the Sierras to Reno in order to be wed, when their car went over the mountainside and crashed, killing them both instantly.
Posted by luminous beauty on Nov 12, 2005 at 11:33 AM
Oh, for Christ’s sake. Why do the Marines always get stuck with doing God’s dirty work? Let us pray: “This is my rifle. My rifle is my friend…”
LB’s contribution to the thread reminds me of a joke I heard on the radio, that the Ten Commandments were removed from the Courthouse vestibule because among all the lawyers, businessfolk and politicians who frequent the building someone wopuld be sure to sue the city “for creating a hostile work environment.”
Posted by Major Major on Nov 12, 2005 at 12:36 PM
The Choir is growing Natalie and you don’t have a story which works, so your cause is doomed.
How was it to actually read an account from the real news media? Must have startled you cuz you quickly retreated back to your comfort zone.
For your dumbfounded information, clown….... Rabbit keeps track of ALL media sources, and he found this particular article quite by chance, via his “Alternative Media” sources which as has been pointed out repeatedly, mostly link to MSM sources. All the sources posted by Rabbit have been “REAL MEDIA” you stupid girl, you have cast your innuendos, on most of them, but it hasn’t won you any ground. The fact remains that Natty, The Expert opinion about the Obvious controlled demolition, is mounting and it6 has always been there. Don’t expect new people to come on board and say anything different. the fact that they com,e on aboard and agree with us, is what is most telling. Your cause is doomed Natty, and it always has been. You can’t cover up a lie this big, even with millions of dollars worth of false prpganda, of which you are a part, despite your belated and throughly discrefdited denials.
Did Natty read the Article which is about the two flights? the information comes from the “Real Media” as you define it, Natty. The thing is a couple of internet researchers found the information and brought it into the open. The story makes it quite clear there is something VERY serious going down here. As for Barabara Olson being among them. More of your strawman disinfo tricks. the information did not refer to any actual passengers being identified, merely trhat the two flights landed somewhere they should not have.
AND Natty, all the denials by you is not going to change the fact that this story alone, may be the death knell of the whole LIE.
Keep on squirming and denying it Natty. The rate things are going Rabbit expects to have you on hand when the final blow comes, and it feels like it could be approaching fast.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 12, 2005 at 10:35 PM
Oh and Natty, isn’t it obvious why Jones does not provide any original thinking?
Because you dumb tart, there is no great mystery, the whole thing is obvious, and the only NEW thinking which was ever applied to the WTC collpases, was the attempt at blidsiding the whole scientific and Engineering community with such a pumped up, wobbly deck of cards, which is what the offiicial lie is. There is no new ideas needed to understand the truth here, people just need a bit of an awakener to see it, and Natty, they are waking up. Rabbit xan just sit here and watch your cause go down the drain by the day. Jones like anybody who stands up and defies your evil masters, is taking a chance and your innuendos about his motives suck deeply. To tell this truth takes courage. Rabbit who is among those who have been telling it since the begginning, and we were a small and much maligned minority back then, Rabbit knows it takes courage of the kind your side is devoid of.
By the way rabbit has not poo-pooed any experts, he has pointed out where they had erred in using false intel to arrive at their conclusions. Rabbit pointed out that most of the experts quoted by you, are being taken out of context, which was shown, and in the end, none of them do or can deny that the buildings were brought down by explosives. T
Now for fun, see how the new choir member sings, Nat the dead in the water bat.
[url=“http://tinyurl.com/a82jz”]Prof. Jones Tallks To
Arctic Beacon On WTC Demo[/url]
Your boat don’t float girly, your ship went straight to the bottom again.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 12, 2005 at 11:08 PM
Oh….........Natty.
Rabbit who has read the report from Professor Jones, just twigged to another one of your stupid self defeating statements. How could you make any judgement of what Professor Steven Jones, was saying, about how “original” or otherwise it was? You haven’t read it, only an article about it. Caught yourself out bigtime there. Now the facts which he is relying upon are certainly not new. They are as has been said here all along, FACTS and are not refuted. This is why no new FACTS were being presented, as said, we have them, and we have had them all along, that is why so many of us have known the truth all along.
You started by claiming there was no scientific, qualified support. Now Rabbit has given you bucket loads, and we are getting new stuiff daily. The BYU Professor, is just the latest, but it all spells DOOM for your case. DOOM for the EVIL JUNTA, your masters, and Natty, DOOM for Vampires who will be having the light shined into their piggy little eyes.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 13, 2005 at 2:01 AM
Hello to others on thread, Rabbit reads the thingys.
Dave, some of those stories Rabbit heard in church years ago, they are sort of Backslapping exercises, they get up sying these things in their sermons and “Witnessing” or “Tesifying”, they tell such little strories to each other smiling in self satisfied ways, seeing and revelling in a pround logic which is completely imaginary. The stories fail in their very essence to establish the things for which they are usually used. Much the same as the often illogical, largely Faith Based arguments which steer most of their lives.
They may well tell a story, but not the one they envision. They even had some currency with Rabbit way back then, they are of course satire. The poor old Christians see some justification in the fact that some arsehole attacks somebody in the name of his GOD. Ok the Prof was an arse hole, but the story was rigged against him in the first place, because in real life, even many atheist students would have called the good professor to task on grounds of etiquette if nothing else. Rabbit finds the Christian acceptance that it was cool for the soldier to assault the Prof because he was expressing his Disbelief. So what if he was doing it loudly, and irritatingly from a public platform? What then is public sermons, proselytising, and door knocking. If it is OK for someone to come around to my door and tell me that his religion is the ducks nuts, then it is OK for some dipshit to do the same thing and tell me there is no GOD.
So the story shows the Violent, crusading nature of Christianity, while it gives NO credence to the idea of GOD.
The bear stories show that whether or not there is a god is not going to make a scrap of difference to your life. Because he is no more involved with earth and it’s creatures daily affairs than the Moon…............in fact.. probably a whole lot less.
Thankyou Mr Zimmerman
Oh my name it is nothin’
My age it means less
The country I come from
Is called the Midwest
I’s taught and brought up there
The laws to abide
And that land that I live in
Has God on its side.
Oh the history books tell it
They tell it so well
The cavalries charged
The Indians fell
The cavalries charged
The Indians died
Oh the country was young
With God on its side.
Oh the Spanish-American
War had its day
And the Civil War too
Was soon laid away
And the names of the heroes
I’s made to memorize
With guns in their hands
And God on their side.
Oh the First World War, boys
It closed out its fate
The reason for fighting
I never got straight
But I learned to accept it
Accept it with pride
For you don’t count the dead
When God’s on your side.
When the Second World War
Came to an end
We forgave the Germans
And we were friends
Though they murdered six million
In the ovens they fried
The Germans now too
Have God on their side.
I’ve learned to hate Russians
All through my whole life
If another war starts
It’s them we must fight
To hate them and fear them
To run and to hide
And accept it all bravely
With God on my side.
But now we got weapons
Of the chemical dust
If fire them we’re forced to
Then fire them we must
One push of the button
And a shot the world wide
And you never ask questions
When God’s on your side.
In a many dark hour
I’ve been thinkin’ about this
That Jesus Christ
Was betrayed by a kiss
But I can’t think for you
You’ll have to decide
Whether Judas Iscariot
Had God on his side.
So now as I’m leavin’
I’m weary as Hell
The confusion I’m feelin’
Ain’t no tongue can tell
The words fill my head
And fall to the floor
If God’s on our side
He’ll stop the next war.
Bob Dylan
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 13, 2005 at 2:33 AM
As for the professor and the class with no brain. Not one of them could see that the obvious answer is that GOD is all, just because he has evil, does not make him evil. God has all Love in him too. He is all, having the evil and the good, in infinite measure is why it is GOD. God is neither he nor she, GOD is if we are to be quite correct an IT.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 13, 2005 at 2:36 AM
Notice the Mention of WTC-7 and the times. The article is worth a read, it is by Symanski and is the latest and most compact appraisal of where we currently stand. Obviously Rabbit is not addressing this to natty, it is too late for deniars. Those interested in the latest 911 news do take the time to look.
Good Summary
Prof Jones main points, in his words.
* The three buildings collapsed nearly symmetrically, falling down into their footprints, a phenomenon associated with “controlled demolition” - and even then it’s very difficult, he says. “Why would terrorists undertake straight-down collapses of WTC-7 and the Towers when ‘toppling over’ falls would require much less work and would do much more damage in downtown Manhattan?” Jones asks. “And where would they obtain the necessary skills and access to the buildings for a symmetrical implosion anyway? The ‘symmetry data’ emphasized here, along with other data, provide strong evidence for an ‘inside’ job.”
* No steel-frame building, before or after the WTC buildings, has ever collapsed due to fire. But explosives can effectively sever steel columns, he says.
* WTC 7, which was not hit by hijacked planes, collapsed in 6.6 seconds, just .6 of a second longer than it would take an object dropped from the roof to hit the ground. “Where is the delay that must be expected due to conservation of momentum, one of the foundational laws of physics?” he asks. “That is, as upper-falling floors strike lower floors - and intact steel support columns - the fall must be significantly impeded by the impacted mass. . . . How do the upper floors fall so quickly, then, and still conserve momentum in the collapsing buildings?” The paradox, he says, “is easily resolved by the explosive demolition hypothesis, whereby explosives quickly removed lower-floor material, including steel support columns, and allow near free-fall-speed collapses.” These observations were not analyzed by FEMA, NIST nor the 9/11 Commission, he says.
* With non-explosive-caused collapse there would typically be a piling up of shattering concrete. But most of the material in the towers was converted to flour-like powder while the buildings were falling, he says. “How can we understand this strange behavior, without explosives? Remarkable, amazing - and demanding scrutiny since the U.S. government-funded reports failed to analyze this phenomenon.”
* Horizontal puffs of smoke, known as squibs, were observed proceeding up the side the building, a phenomenon common when pre-positioned explosives are used to demolish buildings, he says.
* Steel supports were “partly evaporated,” but it would require temperatures near 5,000 degrees Fahrenheit to evaporate steel - and neither office materials nor diesel fuel can generate temperatures that hot. Fires caused by jet fuel from the hijacked planes lasted at most a few minutes, and office material fires would burn out within about 20 minutes in any given location, he says.
* Molten metal found in the debris of the World Trade Center may have been the result of a high-temperature reaction of a commonly used explosive such as thermite, he says. Buildings not felled by explosives “have insufficient directed energy to result in melting of large quantities of metal,” Jones says.
* Multiple loud explosions in rapid sequence were reported by numerous observers in and near the towers, and these explosions occurred far below the region where the planes struck, he says.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 13, 2005 at 3:25 AM
That’s right Natty, Nothing NEW.
It has been said by some for a long time, it is nothing new to us. You are a professional liar, it is nothing new to you. But it is now being said by a respected Brigham Young University Professor, as well as ex administration officials amd many other qualified and respected people. Like the Article says, you mob will now go into overdrive to give the guy hell, destroy him, even kill him. God help the poor bastard because he comes across as a complete innocent. He is actually asking the government for evidence which nobody has been able to get near in four years. He has already been unwise in his choice of words and Rabbit expects he is already being roasted, out of context, but the liars are clutching at straws now and they’ll take anything. They might just have to give up soon, and stop pussyfooting around. that means they will simply arrest him and hold him without charges, incommunicado , the works, they can now you know. They won’t do it unless they have to, but soon they will have to. That or give up and face the music. Not likely. Natty is here to try and save their asses. She and her type are the frontline defences now, against the doom which is aproaching them. It is the light of truth which is the danger, and since you stand for darkness, as the story above points out truthfully, their is no darkness, it is just the absence of light. You Natty and Liars like you are only trying to hold back the light. You don’t have any power of your own, in the way we have the truth. You can only try to stop, Dam up, or destroy. You might as well try and stop the sun coming up. You don’t have enough towels, blankets or serviettes in the cupboard to cover the Big Pink Elephant Natty and Rabbit is not the only one who would appreciate it if you would drop it. We’ll call it a draw. You did not prove the buildings could have fallen down from a plane and a fire. Rabbit did not prove that they fell down from explosives.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 13, 2005 at 3:43 AM
I found this interesting and informative essay on the history of Islamic Science . It touches directly on some of the issues raised on this thread. When considered in the light of the Bush Administrations misuse and abuse of Science and what has been happening in Kansas and Dover, Pa. is quite illuminating of the lugubrious forces modern Conservatism has unleashed upon the world.
Posted by luminous beauty on Nov 13, 2005 at 11:15 AM
Rabbit, they were just simple stories. Some satire and comedy too. I never attributed infallibility or accuracy to any of them. Just shared them for discussion
You say ” If it is OK for someone to come around to my door and tell me that his religion is the ducks nuts,then it is OK for some dipshit to do the same thing and tell me there is no GOD.”
There is a door to door guy here in my town who does just that : knocks on doors to tell people there is no God. He even has tracts to leave behind if you were not home. And the world goes round.
Thanks for posting the Dylan song. What is the title of that song please ?
Posted by David in Canada on Nov 13, 2005 at 11:21 AM
Luminous Beauty, great article on Islamic Science and a special thank you for digging out the original of the Preacher and the Bear . I really enjoyed it.
Posted by David in Canada on Nov 13, 2005 at 12:43 PM
Sorry Dave, Rabbit knows why you posted the stories, and was concerned you might misunderstand he was having a dig, but no, only meant that some of the stories and the format especially was familiar from his days in Church. Using them as a serious comparison, is all.
The Dylan song is “With God on Our Side”
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 13, 2005 at 3:23 PM
Actually Rabbit was making a transparent reference back on topic, really. But true anyway, I think.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 13, 2005 at 3:25 PM
David, if you want to hear an excellent rendering of “With God on Our Side” may I recommend the version by Aaron Neville, If you like Black Gospel at all. I do.
Here’s my offering in this spirit of Armistice Day:
Eric Bogle—No Man’s Land
Well how do you do Private William McBride,
Do you mind if I sit here down by your graveside?
And rest for awhile beneath the warm summer sun,
I’ve been walking all day and now I’m nearly done
I see by your gravestone you were only nineteen
When you joined the glorious fallen in 1916;
Well I hope you died quick and I hope you died clean,
Or, young Willie McBride, was it slow and obscene?
Did they beat the drum slowly,
Did they play the fife lowly?
Did they sound the Death March
As they lowered you down?
Did the band play
“The Last Post And Chorus?”
Did the pipes play
“The Flowers Of The Forest?”
Did you leave ‘ere a wife or a sweetheart behind?
In some faithful heart is your memory enshrined?
And although you died back in 1916,
In that faithful heart are you forever nineteen?
Or are you a stranger without even a name,
Enclosed forever behind a glass pane,
In an old photograph, torn, and battered and stained,
And faded to yellow in a brown leather frame?
Did they beat the drum slowly,
Did they play the fife lowly?
Did they sound the Death March
As they lowered you down?
Did the band play
“The Last Post And Chorus?”
Did the pipes play
“The Flowers Of The Forest?”
Ah the sun now it shines on these green fields of France,
The warm summer breeze makes the red poppies dance,
And look how the sun shines from under the clouds;
There’s no gas, no barbed wire, there’re no guns firing now.
But here in this graveyard is still No Man’s Land,
The countless white crosses in mute witness stand
To man’s blind indifference to his fellow man,
To a whole generation that was butchered and damned.
Did they beat the drum slowly,
Did they play the fife lowly?
Did they sound the Death March
As they lowered you down?
Did the band play
“The Last Post And Chorus?”
Did the pipes play
“The Flowers Of The Forest?”
Ah, young Willie McBride, I can’t help wonder why,
Did all those who lay here really know why they died?
And did they believe when they answered the call,
Did they really believe that this war would end war?
For the sorrow, the suffering, the glory, the pain,
The killing and dying were all done in vain,
For, young Willie McBride, it all happened again,
And again and again and again and again.
Did they beat the drum slowly,
Did they play the fife lowly?
Did they sound the Death March
As they lowered you down?
Did the band play
“The Last Post And Chorus?”
Did the pipes play
“The Flowers Of The Forest?”
It has beautiful traditional Irish tune. I weep like a baby whenever I hear it.
Posted by luminous beauty on Nov 13, 2005 at 5:03 PM
Thanks Rabbit, I understand. I knew you were having a dig, sorry for getting a little bristly.
Posted by David in Canada on Nov 13, 2005 at 7:03 PM
...or maybe you weren’t having a dig? Doesn’t matter.
Luminous Beauty, thanks for the recommendation. I like gospel music too.
Posted by David in Canada on Nov 13, 2005 at 7:10 PM
Rabbit wasn’t having a dig at Dave, but at the Christians since it is their thread, even if they won’t come out and claim it. Du er en folsome Fisk<>. A sensitive fishy. Rabbit doesn’t hurt his friend the curious fish monkey. Likes to play with him, since he does do funny things and Rabbits like funny things to. Have told you about Rabbits and Ball sports?
Lume you an Eric Bogle fan?
Rabbit thinks of him as our answer to <i>The Minstrel himself, Aussie Gold.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 13, 2005 at 7:32 PM
Dave Eric Bogle isn’t into Gospel Music. He is an (the) Aussie folk singer.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 13, 2005 at 7:34 PM
Eric Bogle (born September 23, 1944) is a Scottish-born Australian singer and songwriter. He was born in Peebles, Scotland, and emigrated to Australia in 1969. He currently resides near Adelaide, South Australia. Perhaps his best-known song, written in 1972, is “And The Band Played Waltzing Matilda”, a haunting evocation of the ANZAC experience fighting in the Battle of Gallipoli; it has also been interpreted as a reaction to the Vietnam war.
His songs cover a wide range, including bright comic songs, satires (“I Hate Wogs”), protest songs and other serious considerations of the human condition. Some idea of the breadth of his work can be gained from the fact that another of his well-known songs is “The Aussie Bar-B-Q”, a cheerful ditty about a completely different Australian institution.
In a similar vein to “And the Band Played Waltzing Matilda”, his song “No Man’s Land” refers to the old Scots song “Flowers of the Forest” being played over the grave of a World War I soldier. (Bogle is also on record as calling the song “The Green Fields of France”, and it has sometimes been covered as “Flowers of the Forest”.)
On the lighter end of the scale, other well-known songs include two homages to departed pets, “Little Gomez” and “Nobody’s Moggy Now”, and his homage/diatribe to his folk music fans, “Do You Know Any Dylan?”.
Many of his songs have been extensively covered by other artists, particularly those in an anti-war vein. “And the Band Played Waltzing Matilda” and “No Man’s Land” both gained fame in versions by June Tabor and The Clancy Brothers. “And the Band Played Waltzing Matilda” was covered by John McDermott and The Pogues, and “All the Fine Young Men” was recorded by De Dannan. Recently, the Dropkick Murphys covered “The Green Fields of France.”“
That is actually from Wikipedia, how cool, Mr Bogle is in a big internet encyclopedia.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 13, 2005 at 7:36 PM
Sorry Dave Rabbit just realised he missed a couple of lines and the gospel was referring to Aaron Neville. (Rabbit has no idea who he is, btw.)
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 13, 2005 at 7:39 PM
This is new just when you thought you’d heard all about 911, there is this one.
Missiles from Woolworths?
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 13, 2005 at 7:55 PM
Actually with the stuff being found now about the flights 77 and 175, this here and the Prof from BYU as the latest to join the Choir, this has all the makings of a landslide any one of these days.
The pressure is building, they only have so much they can do to hold it back, but it if keeps building the breakthrough is only a matter of when, not if. This is a very well referenced thing for all it’s newness to Rabbit. Have not yet checked all the sources it gives. Something tells the old Rabbit it has legs though.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 13, 2005 at 8:01 PM
“AND Natty, all the denials by you is not going to change the fact that this story alone, may be the death knell of the whole LIE.”
You are indeed correct, Rabbit, that in the case of the article describing a Boeing 767 landing safely in Cleveland, Greg Szymanski via Rense.com is referencing a story from a small but presumably legitimate news organization. However, what is not apparent to the casual reader, and that would appear to include you, is that the story retold by Szymanski has evolved, and has been molded into something that conveniently meets the requirements of reviving a fading fantasy.
Here is the relevant part of the original story by WCPO Cleveland obtained from the web archive of the page:
Plane Lands In Cleveland; Bomb Feared Aboard
Reported by: 9News Staff
Web produced by: Liz Foreman
9/11/01 11:43:57 AM
A Boeing 767 out of Boston made an emergency landing Tuesday at Cleveland Hopkins International Airport due to concerns that it may have a bomb aboard, said Mayor Michael R. White.
White said the plane had been moved to a secure area of the airport, and was evacuated.
United identified the plane as Flight 93. The airline did say how many people were aboard the flight.
United said it was also “deeply concerned” about another flight, Flight 175, a Boeing 767, which was bound from Boston to Los Angeles.
original story
Here is the relevant part of the recent article authored by Greg Szymanski:
On the morning of 9/11 a little known Cincinnati television station ran a story saying Flight 93 landed at Cleveland International Airport instead of crashing in Penn. as claimed in the official government story. Reporters at WCPO Channel 9 quoted then Cleveland Mayor Michael R. White as saying “a Boeing 767 out of Boston made an emergency landing due to a bomb threat,” the airplane landing safely, moved to a secure location and evacuated.
The early morning report went on to say United Airlines verified the plane as Flt. 93, but was also deeply concerned about another jetliner in the vicinity, Flight 175, flying from Boston to Los Angeles.
Former Mayor White, as well as United and WCPO, could not be reached for comment, but the evidence still remains, even though it was suspiciously removed from the television’s web site in June 2004 in and around the time of the 9/11 Commission hearings…..
Nobody could be reached for comment? I find that a little hard to believe.
......With the evidence trail getting colder and colder, the obvious still must be asked: if Flight 175 was slamming into the South Tower and Flight 93 was downed over Penn. like the govt. contends, why was Mayor White saying both planes were in the vicinity of Cleveland?
Szymanski is clearly equating the plane in Cleveland with the one that crashed in Pennsylvania. One problem is that Flight 93 was out of Newark, not Boston. Another is that it was a 757, not a 767.
Later, he adds the phrase “in the vicinity” which was not contained in the original story, I guess so he could include Flight 175 in the “mystery”.
To be sure, there is likely some errors in the original story (hence their retraction), as I don’t think United would have two Flight 93’s flying on the same day. There was another flight, that was a 767, Delta 1989, that did do an emergency landing at Cleveland that morning, along with confusion as to whether or not it had a bomb on board.
Szymanski is either deliberately dissembling, or is an incredibly poor journalist not to do basic fact-checking and point some of this stuff out. I suspect that he is intentionally trying to turn a simple mistake or two on the part of the reporter or United on a day of incredible confusion and panic into some grand nefarious scheme, with the bottom line intention of keeping his wallet full and his particular type of readership satisfied.
Posted by Natalie on Nov 13, 2005 at 11:04 PM
More innuendods and speculation with not a scrap of anything. Natty my source, linked directly to the original artcile so it is a bit hollow to suggest it was anything but 100% accurate. Rabbit looks at your quotes and see’s nothging which was not said in the original article, have no idea what you are getting at. The fact that the people who were referemced obviously declined to comment, is a surprise to you? Or maybe you are trying to pretend that they meant they could not find them? Natty are you old enough to drive? natty governmnet people are always refusing to be available to comment on such issues, but you conventiently avoid mentioning the rest of the story and that there is more reference to other media sources. NO sorry natty dfear we’ll be sticking with this one unless you can do better than that. You are a foll for even trying, since by the way, it is only listed as a news story. Rabbit has not said he believs it is tru. he certainly believes it seems probable, because it is providing answers to things which have been speculated about for a while. Rabbit always knows when you are being briefed on the new angle of attack, the latest propaganda. It only happens with the new stuff, things which the Junta has not yet had time to formalise a resonse to. You dispaear just as long as it tales beofr ethe new, co-ordinated response is up and running. You have been doing it for months and it is funny to watch.
Now you have obviously not looked too closely at anything which has been postedm especially the Flight 977 and 175 stuff, so best go and do some more study and don’t come round here making a bigger fool of your self. Unless of course abject humiliation is your turn on. It must be, it is all you’ve ever experienced around here. So long as you remain intellectually barren and morally bankrupt so it shall remain too.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 13, 2005 at 11:25 PM
Oh and Natty, we are the majority these days, remember the polls? So if WE say Symanski is a very respectable journalist and is far out in front of most of the MSM in courage and honesty, soory old girl, we are the majority. the guy is ace. He also does things like “PROVING” his sources, something the MSM has long since forgotten was necessary.
Got the flight number wrong above, but you can correct Rabbit on it and it will be like…...................... the first thing you ever successfully corrected Rabbit on.
Natty you don’t feel that since we have so far won every single exchange of facts and sourcing, that you should call it a day? You are losing this one so much worse than the DU one, which rabbit predicted. You may not have noticed but a few have come by this thread and gone from your side, or neutral, to realising the truth. Nobody has come close to taking you seriously. Baby even the house Trolls are not prepared to join you in this one. The same thing happened on the Depleted Uranium thread. Not even the House Trolls were prepared to sink that low, even they have more sense than to try and push this lie. They feel it in their silly hearts, the day of reckoning is near and the 911 lie, is doomed.
How poorly must a case stack up before even the House Trolls will not touch it? Not even Scorpy is going to play. Natty you are beginning to smell on this thread too. You have even without Rabbit’s help exposed your Shill status, but there is one final test, the triple Shill Test Rabbit calls this process. One more issue you have no doubt been assigned to monitor. Torture. Let us go somewhere and you can support the US torturing people. That is your position isn’t it lovely girl? US torture, is not the same as the Nad Guys, it is Democratic Torture. Humane Rape and Torture, isn’t it Natty.
Come on Bitch, let’s see your fangs.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 13, 2005 at 11:36 PM
Rabbit would be less than honest if he was unduly pleasant to you Natty, but surely you understand. It is your dishonesty, your sleaze which has done it.
Will she be back to back her useless attack? Or was she just clocking in there? Just a guerilla tactic, hit and run?
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 14, 2005 at 12:21 AM
<i>“Natty my source, linked directly to the original artcile so it is a bit hollow to suggest it was anything but 100% accurate. Rabbit looks at your quotes and see
Posted by Natalie on Nov 14, 2005 at 12:57 AM
No way Natty. That is the stupidist little nit you ever picked. There is nothing wrong with saying flight 93 was in the vicinity for this is implicitly implied by the fact that Clevland took and interest. You are just doing the usual. If you doubtr the veracity, go and find something which refutes it.
the link on the rense article was broken within hours of it being posted, that is common when you scumbags are caught out, the links worked yesterday for Rabbit but can see they no longer dpo. They don’t just use professional liars like you, we know that shutting down articles on the net and hacking is big on your favorites list too. it is you guys doing the coverup, and Natty stop being pathetic. The public awareness of the scale of the LIE is growing daily, that has also been obvious in this thread. You are the fading party, you still have nothing except diversions and avoidance, anmd you still fail to address anything of significance.,.\
How do seven Suicide bombers survive alive? That is roughly the tenth time Rabbit raises that one. This thread stands as ulimate proof that you have raised a few small issues, failed to be able to make them stand up to anything except more damage to your own cause, and mostly avoided 90%, the most important 90% of the postings you are suppopsedly refuting.
by the way did you think no one would notice that the thing you quoted is not first hand witnesses and is only speculation. It would not be admissible in court, he saw nothing and admits it. He speculated on the thing only and you just posted that in answer to dozens of different sources on that particular story. rabbit din’t want ot post the whole thing but since you choose to misrepresent it he shall now have to do so.. Besdt way to show your lies. It will take a while to attach all the links but I’ll do it, just to piss you off.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 14, 2005 at 1:12 AM
Your link is not right, it is once again connected to nasty hacking things and Rabbit is not going near it. New computer is clean and you are not getting at Rabbit so easily this time. Try making an honest link, SHILL!
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 14, 2005 at 1:14 AM
Of course we never forget even though Natty does, that we, and the people like Szymanski, are speculating upon known facts, not maintaining that we know what happened and all other possibilities are thence crap.
Another fact which you are now making a habit of ignoring is that the Government is witholding all the evidence. rabbit long since suggested you answer how that sits with any credibility you claim for them. You go back a couple of posts and read it. the things you are now failing to make much of a dent in, are nothing more tha articles about 911, they are posted for people to read and think about, invetsigate if they wish. Rabbit his indicated the fqact that he is not averse to them, they seem probable and until he has looked more closely himself he is not going top commit himself. You have of course forgotten about how you babble on about being discerning. What you really meant is to believe only the official line and no more. It is telling that you can see dozens of well sourced and verifiable articles about thses things, and yet you could see no more than a telivision report saying something had been said and you’d defend that to thje death. You have, not for the first time resorted to ad hominem attacks on sources and stories without even having read or verified them. Rabbit has read your so-called sources and dismantled them if necessary from a factual basis, no speculation, no innuendos, just staright up facts and related to the sources’ claims, not who the sources were. You asked for experts and you got more experts than you could attack the characters of, though you tried, until you were left with nothing but sly innuendos, based on nothing but your dirty winking eye.
You have a lot more attempts at debunking Natty, you have not touched the 90% of what has been presented and others who have read it have indicated it has convinced them. the CHOIR is growing and you are not even welcome to join, you jkust stay over there. Now how about you start on torture, forget this you’ve long since lost the 911 debate, the thing is probably going to be decided in the courts one of these days, and at the very least neither you nor Rabbit will get much older before the perpetrators are made known. the JUNTA is long since on its final downward spiral..
OK Rabbit, expects that your mob is going to take off the gloves before long, they have no choice because within six months 60% of the US population is going to be screaming for Bush’s impeachment and the whole Junta’s crimanal trials. Rabbit feels very confidant in predicting the Junta’s demise, but he is not a naive Rabbit, and expects them to make a lot more mess before they are brought to justice, or at least desptroyed.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 14, 2005 at 1:48 AM
Have we had This opinion yet?
Four months after 9/11 to the chagrin of the US Government former German Intelligence Minister Von Bulow spilled the 9/11 beans in an interview in the German daily newspaper, Tagesspiegel:
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/VonBuelow.html
This is one hell of a big and varied choir.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 14, 2005 at 1:53 AM
Maybe Rabbit is being over sensitive about the hacky things, he can find nothing after all,, but he doesn’t trust anything you post which starts expecting his computer to download anything.
Still no difference. The article is too long to post it has been Linked and it is much bigger and more substantial than Natty’s nit, about a second hand report and speculation.
From Fulton Street, Reifenberg could see the South Tower. He began to make the short walk toward it. Just as he stepped into the Plaza, about 50 yards from the Tower, a strange noise filled the air.
“There was a ‘swooshing’ sound, then an explosion, and it sounded really low,” Reifenberg recalled. “It was if someone, one or two floors above me, had launched a shoulder-fired missile.”
Because it sounded so low, Reifenberg, and several other people, ducked to the ground. After moving slightly forward, he then looked up and saw a huge black hole near the top of Tower 2.
“It was strange, for some reason I didn’t even connect the loud noise with the hole which was now smoking,” he said. “I just thought, ‘wow-what a bad fire,’ and stopped to watch along with everyone else. No one really knew what was going on there. We just stood in awe, and the street traffic stopped.”
Marine Res Lance Corporal Alan Reifenberg
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 14, 2005 at 2:12 AM
“In general, they show people performing their duties very heroically and very professionally on a day of horror,” PA spokesman Greg Trevor said.
Most of the conversations are disjointed. Frightened people routinely interrupt each other. Some calls break off. Others are drowned out by screams.
There are repeated references to wailing sirens, and there is great confusion.
At one point in the radio dispatches, there is a report of a “possible missile launching from the Woolworth Building,” a landmark a few blocks away.
Another person called out: “They’re shooting at the Trade Center from the Woolworth Building.”
Throughout, terror is pervasive.
“Another plane just hit the building,” a man says.
“They said another plane just ... flew by and hit Building 2.”
<a href=“http://tinyurl.com/7heg3”>PA Transcripts</a>
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 14, 2005 at 2:55 AM
Sometimes one comes across something which says it so well it is worth the cut and paste especially when Natty would answer the link itself with no more than its Rense so how could it be anything.
Well this could truly be said to be sourced at Rense itself,... see,.. exclusive.. So read the truth and see how corrupt and and craven anyone would have to be to maintain your line of non-reasoning, faith based, slander. Even the so-called suicide bombers are probably being slandered, by the real culprits.
Murphy’s Law & 911
Exclusive to Rense.com
By Douglas Herman
douglasherman7@yahoo.com
11-13-5
“When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.” ~ Arthur Conan Doyle
As a testimony to a couple of legendary but fictional detectives, I once wrote a pair of Internet essays called “Detective Columbo Asks: Was 911 An Inside Job?” and another entitled, “Sherlock Holmes & 911…The ULTIMATE Unsolved Mystery.” Just imagine the conversation detective Columbo might have had with Watson and Holmes, as that trio stared at the pile of wreckage in the weeks after 911.
As one of the more iconoclastic writers on the Internet, I get a lot of intelligent emails contesting my viewpoints. Recently a man named Jay emailed me in reference to 911 and said I didn’t know the laws of physics. He said I didn’t know what I was talking about, didn’t know metallurgy, didn’t know mathematics.
I have to admit Jay was more than a little correct. I scarcely know the difference between Newton’s Three Laws of Motion and Murphy’s Law. So I decided to do a little snooping around and see if I couldn’t learn a lot more about laws. Helps to know what you,re talking about.
In a recent Rense essay, the one that bothered Jay, I took MIT to task for implying that the Twin Towers collapsed due to sudden weakening of the steel caused by fire. I suggested MIT engineers should just build a scale model and prove their unscientific theory. Because 911 heretics like myself just don’t buy it.
Jay, a machinist, claimed you couldn’t build a forty or fifty foot scale model of the Twin Towers (1/25 scale) and replicate the collapse using a scale model of a Boeing 757. Mentioned something about the differences between the mass of the real structures and the mass of the models, plus a whole bunch of other technical data.
He quoted the rule of Occam’s Razor “Pluralitas non est ponenda sine necessitate”“or Given two equally predictive theories, choose the simpler. Detectives often use Occam’s razor to shave in the morning before locating the culprits in most crimes.
Curiously, the name Occam, or Ockham, wasn’t applied to the razor until several hundred years later. Sometimes, when you cut away the simplest explanation, you realize it isn’t always correct.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 14, 2005 at 3:02 AM
Jay adhered to the official, government explanation for the collapse of the two taller towers, that they pancaked down due to truss failure, rather than imploded. He did admit that WTC-7 was “deliberately demolished with the permission of the owner.”
According to Murphy’s Law (one of many), “Any object when dropped will roll into the least accessible corner.” Curiously, the three collapsed building, instead of falling all over the place, ALL fell exactly into their own footprints. Convenient. Perhaps the best Murphy’s Law that applies to 911 is: “If you can’t understand it, it is intuitively obvious.”
Thus, if you can’t understand it was controlled, than perhaps you are controlled, we 911 skeptics suggest.
I remarked that a stout 47 story skyscraper with a few fires raging in the lower floors (and just HOW did they start?) had collapsed suspiciously. Never happened before or since.
WTC-7 dropped"fell doesn’t describe the rapidity—almost as fast as one of Newton’s free-falling objects obeying his gravitational Law. Eye-witnesses to the collapse—firemen, policemen, news reporters"concurred, stating repeatedly the collapse resembled a “controlled demolition.”
Recently, a BYU physics professor arrived at the exact same conclusion. A controlled demolition, he said, but for ALL three buildings. Now professor Steven Jones may, or may not, have applied Occam’s Razor to the puzzle, or he may have reverted to Doyle’s Dictum: “When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.”
Sir Isaac Newton, not to mention detectives Columbo & Holmes, (sounds like a TV show) may also wish to know why a man who just purchased a 47 story building which contained acres of US government records, Secret Service offices and Mayor Giuliani’s emergency command post, would choose to destroy it? And most importantly, How?
Now if we apply Occam’s Razor (that the simplest explanation is usually the most likely), recent owner Larry Silverstein is simply guilty of massive insurance fraud. And destruction of government property. And conspiracy. And perjury. And reckless endangerment.
Because any man who buys a piece of property, purchases massive amounts of insurance, and purposely destroys it weeks later, only to claim many times the amount of what that property is worth, is almost always a criminal suspect.
And Silverstein admitted doing it. His words to that effect were taped.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 14, 2005 at 3:04 AM
But how could Silverstein have arranged to “pull it” (his remarks) in the few hectic hours before the collapse? Normally, a controlled demolition requires days or weeks, not hours, of careful preparation. Jay claimed it could be done, but by whom?
Recall the streets around the collapsed Trade Towers were inaccessible, clogged with dust, piles of debris, wrecked fire trucks and police cars that morning. And thousands of fleeing New Yorkers.
Unless, of course, Silverstein had arranged the demolition days or weeks earlier. Because the laws of probability, weigh heavily against a professional demolition team arriving on the scene, unpacking their gear unnoticed, and rigging high explosives while several fires rage around and above them.
Since scientific people love Occam’s Razor, I devised an even simpler rule. I call mine, “Doug’s Denouement.” According to the definition, a denouement (day-new-ma) is, “1:The outcome of a complex sequence of events. 2: the final resolution of the main complication of a literary or dramatic work. The unraveling or discovery of a plot, especially of a drama. 4: The solution of a mystery; issue; outcome.”
Doug’s Denouement: “If something looks like a conspiracy, sounds like a conspiracy, acts like a conspiracy, feels like a conspiracy, and smells rotten like a conspiracy, it probably is a conspiracy.” My denouement follows the classic description of a duck that we know so well.
But wait, let me clarify things. It’s not a conspiracy if it’s a fact. And any fact found in the street weighs exponentially many times more than any official government version. At least in the last fifty years or so.
Wisely, BYU physics professor James avoided the question of Why the buildings were imploded (He didn’t even mention that miraculous passport). Physics cannot be confused with philosophy or ethics, or even Forensics 101.
After September 11th, the forensic crime scene invetigators at the WTC site, and later at the ironically named Fresh Kills, sorted through dust looking for human remains while the bigger pieces of the puzzle (steel beams and girders) were hastily shipped to China. Why they did so may require a greater law than Murphy’s or Newton’s or Occam’s Razor to discover.
Perhaps one day we’ll call it Fitzgerald’s Law.
WACK
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 14, 2005 at 3:06 AM
Yes, I am sensitive, sometimes overly so. I like playing with you too Rabbit. It is fun.
I would also like to take this opportunity to thank Rabbit for his good works. Rabbit has tirelessly taken to task many issues and I would not see it be thanklessly so.
Thank you Rabbit
Posted by David in Canada on Nov 14, 2005 at 11:46 AM
There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root.
Henry David Thoreau
Posted by David in Canada on Nov 14, 2005 at 11:51 AM
Thanks Dave
All creatures enjoy an occassional stroke, though Rabbit is generally immune to flattery as well as insults.
Too bad we have to be mean to such a girl as Natty, Rabbit would much rather stroke her too, even if we disgreed, but how can one remain pleasant to someone who so clearly has an agenda, and is prepared to behave so dishonestly just to stop anyone seeking truth. If the truth is as she says, then all the government needs to do is release all the evidence and allow an independant enquiry. Allow an investigation which asks what happened? Not as it is, a exercise in trying to back up a theory. It was well said here, in another article about Professor Jones.
<blockquote>According to Professor Jones, all of the laws of science and mathematics point directly to the controlled demolition of the World Trade Center and not to fire bringing down the three towers.
Through his intensive and methodical research, Jones has come to realize that the speed and symmetry of the collapse of the WTC buildings prove that the so-called official story must be false. He points to venting or squibs (smoke puffs) present around the collapsing structures as being direct indicators of the use of pre-positioned explosives. He also noted that the way that NASA infrared satellites and aircraft were able to take photos of the burning wreckage and molten steel for weeks was indicative of a massive use of thermite in the structure.
For Jones, the real problem with the official line on 9/11 is that it relies on wrong-headed science that starts with a conclusion and seeks out evidence that supports that theory to the exclusion of all others in order to cover up what really happened on September 11th. FEMA, the 9/11 Commission, and even the National Institute of Standards and Technology had all started with the supposition that what caused the WTC collapses was the impact of the jets and their exploding fuel and ignored any and all evidence to the contrary even though their findings were
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 14, 2005 at 4:10 PM
By the way, another thing which just occurred to Rabbit.
Thermite would not be detectable by ordinary bomb detection and bomb sniffing dogs. I think. Depending on what was used as a detonator, of course. Thermite takes a lot to ignite. Still the dets would be very small overall.
Electric Sparklers, are a typical thermite reaction.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 14, 2005 at 4:15 PM
Kuya says “Dude! Formidable thread! You guys really are hardcore!”
Major Major says “Not that formidable, Kuya. If you just ignore the flame war between Rabbit and Natalie, the thread boils down to approximately twenty-three posts.”
(I think there are more than 23 posts. But, it doesn’t matter, with those as a given and acknowledging the worthwhile tangent this thread has taken :)
Let us please see this thread to 999, 1000, 1001 and maybe beyond.
It is not so far to go.
Maybe our computers will explode and we will be set free?
Free at last! Free at last! Thank God Almighty, we are free at last!
Just praying so…..
Posted by David in Canada on Nov 14, 2005 at 11:40 PM
David,
I love your sense of humor and the way your mind works. I don’t think I’m anywhere near your political wave-length, but never-the-less you have a knack for seeing what most don’t even consider. Haven’t been to Canada since my honeymoon some 23 years ago, but I remember it to be an enchanting place. (Victoria, BC, at least.)
Rabbit,
You might be glad to hear that Steven Jones was featured on a cable network here. I have no idea what kind of television you have access to, but it was a show on MSNBC. Tucker Carlson, the Situation.
Tucker is a conservative, he was quite skeptical of Jones but was as usual very polite. Jones wanted them to run the video of WTC7 collapsing, but apparently they didn’t have it prepared, and never did.
This is not grounds for dismissal, certainly, but let the record show that Jones is apparently very much a Democrat. He can’t be lumped in with former Republican appointees and the like. I didn’t learn this on the show, but came across his post at Democraticunderground.com.
I think it likely that he will be severely challenged on this forum, because I think many far left DUers would not see this position as desireable from an electoral standpoint.
It will be interesting to see if he posts anymore there.
“The tilting of the South Tower was also intriguing to many, squibs from the North Tower less so – but I spent most of the time on WTC 7. Also, the letter of Kevin Ryan carried weight evidently, along with protests about the destruction of the steel beams. My slides on Pathological Science were very useful in countering claims of the “official” theory.
That’s it for now.
Oh, you’ll notice in my talk an appeal to the Book of Mormon – which speaks over and over about “secret combinations”, “secret plans”, “secret societies” in the “last days.” This provided a means to overcome the barrier of “conspiracy theory nonsense” with this group. Won’t work for everyone, but this really is something we Mormons believe in and watch for….”
Best Regards,
Steven E. Jones
Jones on DU
Posted by Natalie on Nov 15, 2005 at 10:03 AM
Rabbit, I’ve been wanting to tell you this story, but I had to talk to my cousin and get some of the details right:
My grandmother’s cousin, who owned the cinnibar mine and really was an old time hard rock miner, used to mix his nitro by the glacial stream just below the house. He would always say he liked it because he got more bang for the buck. The only joke I ever heard him make. He’d rack his product in a little shack next to the creek, and when finished, hang his little vials on little spings and wrapped in rags in the back of his old Ford truck and drive it on 8mi. of bad rock road up to the mine.
My grandmother, needless to say, didn’t like him doing this so close to the house. When my grandfather installed a diesel generator in the shack it really pissed ‘Uncle’ Jim off, because it would go on automatically and shake the shack like an earthquake. So he built a new one about a hundred yards downstream.
Apparently it wasn’t too windproof though, because one night everyone was awakened by a loud explosion. I wasn’t there at the time, but my cousin says they found the remains of the corrugated steel roof about a quarter mile across the creek and up the mountainside.
One of Uncle Jim’s boys became a geologist and because of his expertise in seismology and his activism in the Society of Friends, was instrumental in creating the Comprehensive Nuclear Test Ban Treaty. Just a point of family pride.
Posted by luminous beauty on Nov 15, 2005 at 10:22 AM
Thanks Natalie,
I am just a simple country boy. I have voted for Green Party candidates in the last few elections. Awaiting the return of the Rhino Party.
Happy to make you laugh. I do see things differently. Must be my bad eye ;)
Just kidding.
I live in British Columbia but on the mainland. Have visited Victoria several times. Glad you enjoyed your visit.
Posted by David in Canada on Nov 15, 2005 at 2:38 PM
Thankyou Natalie, although Rabbit has no idea what political persuasion Jones has, it does not have any bearing. For a start as anybody will agree, there is bugger all difference between the two parties, at the end of the day. Secondly and most importantly, Natty, a BYU professor is not going to say something as incredibly far reaching as this, if he was not sure, that must be obvious. Thirdly Natalie, as the following article will show, he has plenty of support from other faculty members as well, maybe they are all democrats too?
Please do not insult Rabbit’s intelligence by suggesting that UTAH, is not the heartland of Bush supporters. Rabbit has a Mormon family, deary, and knows all about it.
911 Demo: BYU’s
Prof Jones Has Wide
Academic Support
BYU Professor Has Plenty of Company in the Academic Community,
Including 60 Faculty Members from Two Utah Universities
Who Concur a Controlled Demolition Most Likely Brought
Down the WTC and Further Investigation Is Needed
Source
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 15, 2005 at 5:59 PM
Rabbit likes the story thankyou. Such things give Rabbit an excited feeling in his heart. Probably in a past life Rabbit used to shoot big cannons. Have had a few glimpses of something occassionally that suggests this is a recurring theme for Rabbit.
Rabbit had an old American book with lots of amazing things in it, and it was pre American Civil war. Among the many weird and wonderful medicinal remiedies, and inks and everything was an excelent chapter on the manufacture of explosives and fireworks.
This was in fact the first literature Rabbit had about such things and he proceeded to experiment. As his rusty Chemistry started to catch up and Rabbit obtained modern books on the subject it began to dawn on Rabbit just how unstable some of the old fireworks mixtures really were. But not before a few interesting and exciting experiences. Some of these are better than the Rocket Powered Billy Cart. I’ll probably set up a Blog soon, and may save the best till then.
The following is from much later when I had become licensed and was using commercial explosives.
Our Apple Orchard, which we’d inherited with the farm, was about 40 years old and we’d finally cleared most of it since the new house orchard, including lots of different apples, was coming into its first fruit. There remained just a couple of trees, a particularly robust and tall Apple tree variety as well. Rabbit got his old Massey Fergussen MF60, tractor and pushed and pulled on the tree, but it, wouldn’t budge. Oh well thought Rabbit with a happy sigh, “I’ll just have to blow it up”.
Rabbit went down the hill, our block was sloping up away from the house at the bottom of the hill. Rabbit set up a nice big charge, and grabbed a bit of fuse and a det, went up the hill and poked the charge into a hole which he dug under the roots a bit. It was a bit bigger than necessary, but the last charge on an apple tree didn’t sever the roots and he had to work a bit too hard to get it out still. Also Rabbit had not made a bang for a while and felt like a good bang.
Rabbit lit the fuse, and retired to a safe distance. Mrs Rabbit was watching out the kitchen window, about three hundred meters down the hill.
BOOM…....................................................^^.......................................
There was lots of smoke and dust, and the tree weighing about half a ton, lifted up like a rocket into the sky and in a big arc started flying, down the hill towards the house. At the apex of its travel it was about a hundred meters in the air. rabbit was running like crazy down the hill, but could do nothing. Mrs Rabbit ran out the back door and the tree finally landed with a thump, about three meters from the house door. It left a fair crater too.
Turns out there was rock not far under the tree at that spot, just a fluke, but it meant the ground didn’t absorb as much of the blast as was normal in that soft soil.
Mrs Rabbit is remarkably tolerant of the old Rabbit sometimes. She was a bit peeved, and asked him to be more careful, which Rabbit ignored as always. She would have a very boring life without the Rabbit though, and in her heart she knows that.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 15, 2005 at 6:26 PM
Dave the Rhino Party lokks like Rabbit’s idea of a party.
Have you heard of Yahoo Serious? He is the Aussie guy in “Young Einstein” and a couple of other parodies I can’t remember just now.
He ran as an independant, in Tasmania, back in the eightees, if I recall, and he had but one policy.
A PAIR OF
BLUNDSTONE BOOTS FOR EVERY AUSTRALIAN</b>
As he answered when aksed why,
“They are good boots, and if every Aussie can say he got a good pair of boots out of his government this time round, we would see that as an improvement on past experience.”
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 15, 2005 at 6:43 PM
I like good boots too.
In the near future we will be having a federal election here in Canada. Currently we have a minority government and a wee bit o’ scandal as well.
Going Green again this time too. They are gaining popularity and may even get a seat this time!
The Rhino Party was a national treasure to be sure.
Natural Law Party is another example of some of the fringe elements. They got my vote once on a lark.
Posted by David in Canada on Nov 15, 2005 at 7:39 PM
Greens are the third party in Oz politics, since Democrats imploded and dropped off the charts.
Actually the Libs are a coalition with the National Country Party and could not get by without that usually.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 15, 2005 at 8:07 PM
Rabbit might start a new party one of these days.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 15, 2005 at 8:08 PM
Might call it The Last Party......................^^.................
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 15, 2005 at 8:12 PM
I used to LOVE Jim Marrs’ UFO stuff, by the way, ljwhit. (And his name!)
I have/had no IDEA what his politics actually are - but I always found his stuff coolly and reasonably, yet rigorously, reasoned… and informative!!
Good stuff it was!! Loved his “Alien Agenda”!
Posted by Liz on Nov 16, 2005 at 6:48 AM
Speaking of fringe….
Here in Cali we have among many anarchist groups, the
Erisian Faction
Here is one of their position papers:
Little Tony was sitting on a park bench munching
on one candy bar after another.
After the 6th candy bar, a man on the bench across from him said,
“Son, you know eating all that candy isn’t good for you.
It will give you acne, rot your teeth, and make you fat.”
Little Tony replied, “My grandfather lived to be 107 years old.”
The man asked, “Did your grandfather eat 6 candy bars at a time?”
Little Tony answered, “No, he minded his own fucking business.”
My kind of party. Wooo! Wooo!
Posted by luminous beauty on Nov 16, 2005 at 6:56 AM
“Has Liz seen the interesting paasenger list from the Flight 77?” No - haven’t got a good link - but I do know from memory that all the planes were about half-full… and that many of the people were quite important… ie were “government” people who could be resettled under new names and passports, you know??
” Very high percntage of people who would have had to have known about a lot of what was done to pull off the big day. Surprising number of people who researchers would like to talk to are on that list, if rabbit recalls correctly. ” Yeah - telling me!!
“Trying to locate the xact link you referred to, could you re-post it please.” Lost link - glad you found it again!
Posted by Liz on Nov 16, 2005 at 7:08 AM
Ah! I didn’t know “Nat the Bat” was a Dr Seuss character!
I love Dr Seuss!!
Posted by Liz on Nov 16, 2005 at 7:09 AM
Aw - one of my comments didn’t come out! I tried to post the Jones BYU link!!
Try again!!
http://www.911truth.org/index.php?topic=media
http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2005/11/328670.shtml
It’s always good to WATCH a video clip!!
Posted by Liz on Nov 16, 2005 at 7:26 AM
Liz:
You have brought to my attention another reason why Bill Gates should be tarred and feathered and run out of town on a rail. I can’t get that video to work on Mozilla. Now I have to open IE. Getting creakier and creakier on Macs.
Posted by luminous beauty on Nov 16, 2005 at 8:59 AM
Luminous Beauty ... loved the guns and dope link. Very funny.
Liz ... I love Dr. Seuss too. Childhood favorites. I used to recite from them when I was little and my parents wanted to show off my early reading ability.
I am full of love today ... please do not get me started on Microsoft. hehehe
Posted by David in Canada on Nov 16, 2005 at 11:57 AM
David Pronunciamiento…..............................
I want to love others and to be loved by others.
I want to be loved by others and to love others.
Perfect blossoms.
I love others and am loved by others.
I am loved by others and love others.
Perfect fruits.
Posted by David in Canada on Nov 16, 2005 at 4:11 PM
SAVE 53% OFFTHE NEWSSTAND PRICE!
Reader Comments
Sorry about the Rabbit mistake the site you linked to was the proper 911Review site, which rabbit has also posted to above. there is a 911Review.org, which is a disinfo site, and Rabbit was hasty in writing it off. However the Rabbit rises another head taller than the Natalie, by recognising and admitting it. Now the information on collapse times, is that there is some doubt about the exact times taken, but it doesn’t actually alter the main contention at all.
The site in fact is a strong supporter of the theory that explosives were involved. So Natalie, Rabbit will link to the relevant section of that site, for you.
[url=“http://tinyurl.com/cgstk”]Our analysis of the destruction of the Twin Towers divides the events into four parts:
—Jetliners impact the towers
—Fires follow the impacts
—Explosions level the towers
—Vast dust clouds follow the explosions [/url]
This is the source Natty just used for a reference
You are coming around to our way of thinking then Natty?
Maybe you are just desperate for something, anything that you’ll settle for establishing one of the 911 researchers smoked pot in college, or maybe one of them squeezes farts out of dead seagulls.
WTC Demolition, slideshow and talk.
More and icludes WTC-7
About Disinformation
The following site includes a good roundup of Witnesses to the explosions in the World Trade Centers, as well as some simple logic. What can you attack this guy for Batty Natty?
William Thomas
William Rodriguez Just a report, from a reporter, to show he is real.
<i>By Greg Szymanski
What happened to William Rodriguez the morning of 9/11 is a miracle. What happened to his story after-the-fact is a tragedy.
But with miracles and tragedies comes truth. And truth is exactly what Rodriguez brings to the whole mystery surrounding 9/11.
Declared a hero for saving numerous lives at Ground Zero, he was the janitor on duty the morning of 9/11 who heard and felt explosions rock the basement sub-levels of the north tower just seconds before the jetliner struck the top floors.
He not only claims he felt explosions coming from below the first sub-level while working in the basement, he says the walls were cracking around him and he pulled a man to safety by the name of Felipe David, who was severely burned from the basement explosions.
All these events occurred only seconds before and during the jetliner strike above. And through it all, he now asks a simple question everybody should be asking? How could a jetliner hit 90 floors above and burn a man
William Rodriguez’ Story
How will the SHILL deal with this guy? Attack his character? Attack the sites used so far, (Rabbit has collected dozens of references to Rodriguez’ story from the days after the 911 attacks until recently, just in case Natty doesn’t like Arctic Beacon or that lady reporter from before.
<i>...since he was late, Rodriguez found himself checking into work in an office on sub-level 1 when the north tower was hit, seemingly out of harms way. However, the sound and concussion of a massive explosion in the sub-levels right below his feet changed that.
“When I heard the sound of the explosion, the floor beneath my feet vibrated, the walls started cracking and it everything started shaking,” said Rodriguez, who was huddled together with at least 14 other people in the office.
Rodriguez said Anthony Saltamachia, supervisor for the American Maintenance Co., was one of the people in the room who stands ready to verify his story.
“Seconds after the first massive explosion below in the basement still rattled the floor, I hear another explosion from way above,” said Rodriguez. “Although I was unaware at the time, this was the airplane hitting the tower, it occurred moments after the first explosion.”
But before Rodriguez had time to think, co-worker Felipe David stormed into the basement office with severe burns on his face and arms, screaming for help and yelling “explosion! explosion! explosion!”
David had been in front of a nearby freight elevator on sub-level 1 about 400 feet from the office when fire burst out of the elevator shaft, causing his injuries.
“He was burned terribly,” said Rodriguez. “The skin was hanging off his hands and arms. His injuries couldn
here is the key and it is what Natty is all about.
<b>(in) Puerto Rico and all the other Latin American countries, I have been allowed to tell my story uncensored. But here, I can
GO here
That is a great site, lots of quotes from experts and exactly the sort of Pyrotechnics Rabbit was talking about.
Say one idiotic thing Natty and Rabbit will mention the name of the company….....you know who…....and post lots of quotes from the site. For now you can just hope that others don
This article..........Rabbit looks behind himself….................. bad electrons, stay put this time.
Morgan Reynolds has been critically examined it seems and while some other of his ideas, which may be being treated out of context anyway, are challenged the fact of his credibility, expertise and position are not.
This by Jim Hoffman and it includes the rebuttal and lots of links for anyone who wants to look closer. The essential point is Reynolds’ qualification to say what he says.
The article Why Did the Trade Center Skyscrapers Collapse? published on the libertarian-oriented website LewRockwell.com, has garnered considerable attention. It makes the case for the controlled demolition of the Twin Towers and Building 7 with much the same eloquence as David Ray Griffin, whom it cites. Its author, Morgan Reynolds, brings unprecedented credentials to the community of skeptics of the official story: He is professor emeritus at Texas A&M University, former director of the Criminal Justice Center at the National Center for Policy Analysis, and former chief economist for the US Labor Department during 2001-2002.
Reynolds provides an excellent summary of evidence for the controlled demolition of the WTC skyscrapers. However, he also devotes about a third of his article to supporting the dubious idea that neither the Twin Towers, the Pentagon, nor the field in Shanksville, PA were the sites of the crashes of the jetliners commandeered on 9/11/01. His article thus weds the thesis of controlled demolition of the skyscrapers with the denial that Flights 11, 175, 77, and 93 crashed where reported. This is unfortunate because it functions to discredit the case for demolition by associating it with ideas that lack scientific merit, are easily debunked, and are inherently offensive to the victims of the attack—especially the survivors of the passengers and crews of the crashed flights.
The role of disinformation in undermining the exposure of the facts of the 9/11 attack—the subject of the information warfare section of 911Review.com—is appreciated by few in the 911 Truth Movement itself. Indeed most sincere researchers of the attack have been fooled, at least temporarily, by some of the many hoaxes that have been promoted under the guise of truth exposure. Reynolds, a relative newcomer to the skepticism of the basic tenets of the official story, is likely no exception. I can imagine several reasons he might give the no-jetliners theories so much credence.
Enough of that Red-herring Nat the Bad Bat and do the Rodriguez character assasination if that is all you have left.
WITNESS time.
The final bell, the real matter of Personal attack is when it comes to WITNESSES. The other personal attacks Nat makes are of little meaning in the overall picture, but now the claws must be sharp. So this should be Milk and honey for Natalie.
Here she comes….....Swooping in ..........Blood dripping from her fangs, fresh from a kill. Probably feeding off some fresh War Dead.
Natalie in Brazil?
She’ll be back once she has fed.
This has to be the latest on 911. Anybody who still tries to defend the offiical lie, must be certifiably insane. They would fail a basic reflex test.
[url=“http://tinyurl.com/7m372”]German Intel Agent
Von Bulow Solves 911[/url]
TRY THIS
Natty is gone walkabout, as she does when the going gets tough.. When the going gets tough, the tough get lost.
Come back Natty we want the “official” response to Rodriguez, everybody is dying to hear the government response. Or are you waiting for an assassination to make the problem go away? that is what Rabbit fears.
Mr Rodriguez has got to be the most seriously threatened species on the planet, may God go with him.
“Natalie the actual Facts Rabbit is not going to play your personal attack Shill games anymore”
MY personal attack shill game? MY game? If you’re suggesting that I’m somehow not allowed to critique what you put forth, or question the credibility, credentials and reliability of your sources, I would wonder what makes it taboo for me and perfectly fine for you. Is there some kind of ....hypocricy exemption…..I’m unaware of?
The game of “SHILL” is your invention. You introduced the term, and insist on keeping it alive through thick and thin. Please tell me what the difference is between me arguing one POV, and trusting a certain set of sources, and you promoting another POV put forth by a separate set of sources. Why am I called a “Shill”, while you somehow remain immune to the label? I would suggest that you either offer a reasonable explanation, or abandon the term.
“There is an American Poll, it has been posted already among the many you ignored.”
Please repost the link to this American Poll that asks specifically about deliberate demolition. I apparently missed it. Obviously, it can’t be an “Internet poll”. To be meaningful it must be scientific.
<i>“That Texas A&M link tells us nothing of importance Natalie.
I don’t want to attack Bill Rodriguez. It appears that he was quite heroic on 9/11 and continues to try to help other victims of the attack. I can’t explain why all the reporters and/or editors chose to clip out his comments about explosions, if he did indeed testify to that effect from day one as he maintains currently. It does appear that he has gained a new following, a new set of admirers to take the place of likely a fading spotlight that shone simply on his heroism. His lawyer, Philip Berg, actually filed a lawsuit demanding that Supreme Court justices be disbarred for siding with Bush in 2000. This is Kookville central. This kind of goofiness has not gone unnoticed by the good, but still in major denial folks at 911review.com:
disinfo/lawsuits
In fact, these good but still in major denial folks seem to have quite a few issues with a lot of what you’ve introduced here in past posts:
Errors
And so do these good but still in major denial folks:
Bogus
You may be disappointed to see many of your most trusted sources listed. Rense, Jones, Serendipity (the LSD guy), etc, etc.
So people heard explosions. That’s really not too suprising, what with jet fuel fires coursing through the building’s elevators:
Elevator shafts worked like chimneys, funneling unbearable smoke to floors above the crashes. The shafts also channeled burning jet fuel throughout both towers. Fire moved not only up and down but also side to side, from shaft to shaft, unleashing explosions in elevator lobbies and in restrooms next to the shafts.
(link)
I can’t explain how the brave janitor is able to interpret the progression and direction of the explosions he heard and felt as being the product of a deliberate demolition, and not simply because of the crash of the planes and the sub-explosions that no doubt resulted. I don’t believe anyone has made any claims that might actually prove something, like for instance seeing someone laying blasting wire, or someone coming forward and admitting that he did, or someone among the thousands that picked through the debris bucket by bucket finding some.
I suspect this lawsuit will be thrown out of court, or more likely laughed out. I hope I’m wrong, though. I hope it’s televised so I can see how a few disgruntled Bush-haters with no technical expertise stand up against a parade of structural engineers, including some of the same ones that designed and built the towers, and other misc. genuine experts in the fields that apply. That would be priceless.
In other words…....please…... bring it on!!
Nobody said anything about polls and demolition Nasty Natty, we were talking about “NOT believing” the official lie. Those polls are referred to several times above and Rabbit will re-post them in his own time, they are more dissembling by a Liar, you. Your points of vuiew are official propaganda and obviously so. you have avoided reasonable deabte you go round and round with snarky personal attacks, avoidance of issues and false screeching about how badly done by you are. The thread stands and so do otyhers which show you are not even a real person in the sense that you came onto this site pretending to be someone you were not. You have shown yourself to be completely devoted to maintaining the official line, beyond what is normal even for trolls and morons, your tactics are so transparent and repulsive that no one who has met you has called you anything diferrent.
You refer disparagingly to Reynolds now and you will do it over and over to anyone who doesn’t tow the official line, why is it any surprise. You can’t dispute what they say so you attack the person.
You can’t dispute what they say so you attack the person and it is obvious. Just because you don’t have ANY credible independant witnesses for the official lie, and just because half the details of the offiical lie are patently false, don’t assume that the rest of the doubting world is as poverty stricken in the area of logic and evidence as you.
I have not found out that Reynolds is buying into anything like you suggest. that is just more of your feeble innuendo.
You are referring to a comment by someone, which was a throwaway one, and which does not even refer specifically to the theories. As I pointed out the author probably was misunderstanding and taking something out of context, for whilst Rabbit hasn’t looked at Reynolds beliefs, his professional opinion is no less for any “beliefs” especially as if they are the ones I am thinking of there is no way they can be called impossible. So stop with the innuendo you dishonest toad of a person. So far you’ve sold your soul and every grain of credibility for your assigned cause, and despite your hollow claims of anything else, you have FAILED spectacularly to introduce any credibility to a discredited official lie, and you have failed to damage any alternative theories about what happened which have been accepted as probable by Rabbit and others. It is also obvious that you disapear like you do when there gets to be too many against you, and come back after you hope they have all gone away. You are such a fraud, Natty.
You don’t want to attack William Rodriguez but you will, and calling him Bill, which has not been done before by any source does not make you seem any less ridiculous. You must share the same image consultant as Dubya.
When a known false info site like which includeds claims about certain sites to be false, and I see my trusted sites among those it lists as untrustworthy? Actually Natalie Rabbit is pleased to see that those sites are under attack, especially as he knows the perpetrators had to resort to false claims about those sites to be able to criticise them. You do use soem garbage. taht link is no more than an attck piece. It uses nothing more substantial than your type of innuendo and starwman arguments. Crap in other words. Where is something factual? It cleverly attacks one or two other disinfo sites, like itself, but that doesn’t change anything. we already know which of the supposed truth sites are really yours.
Those things which you claim are being denied by 911.review, are not things which Rabbit has tried to claim anywhere, you are just repeating your earlier lies when you tried to put words in my mouth, strawman arguments, by cherrypicking bits and pieces around the periphery of sites which were posted for other specific purposes. you have attributed some of the claims being debunked on that link, but they were not, so, that is what is called a foul, Natty.
The other thing to be rememeber is that certain theories on this site may be wrong, it is but one of many, and since the Government has hidden the evidence and is hindering all investigations, it is hard to sort out all the theories and several of even the more extreme ones may yet be true, who is to know while the EVIDENCE is being withheld?
As for the last part of your post, all it shows is that you have either not read the full account by Rodriguez, including the number of other witnesses, or you are ignoring it. There was not lots of Jet fuel down elevators as we’ve already shown that it was almost all burnt up in the explosion. It was one of thsoe facts which was ignored by you as being unassailable, like most of the other important things. as for the things which might have been noticed in the setting up of the explosives, you are right, and there is indeed evidence of this. Among other interesting things, the BOMB Sniffer dogs were removed from the WTC’s a week or so before 911. One of the later identified “hijackers” was also seen in the building, apparently measuring and mapping the building. Evidence which is on record and was ignored by the 911 commission, of course.
There is more, Natty much much more than you can ever hope to discredit, even if you had a single useful fact which you don’t. Get on with the dirty attacks of Rodriguez, because it’s all you have. His story completely F*CKS yours. So either he and his twenty odd witnesses are lying, or your Blood Drenched Government is lying, telling the biggest lie of modern times and you are helping them do it. You are also helping spread Depleted Uranium all over the planet. You are the original She devil, incarnation of Evil. You are besmirching the memory of thsoe three thousand who you otherwise use as justification for killing 150,000. You are doing this because what you are doing, no matter what you believe, you are trying to stop the truth being found, whatever it might be. The truth is oibviously not known, and you are detenrmined it will not be. You are Beezlebub. The original figurehead for Babylon the Great W.
The witnesses will be speaking the truth, they will be doing so separately and they will be supported by much much more evidence as it must be obvious to any fool. NO Parade of structural engineers who have nothing but theory to work with anyway, will be able to discredit that you stupid fool. There is no way that proving the building might possibly have fallen down by itself, if the witnesses show it did not!
Wow are you a hopeful one. Twenty people, supported by various forms of evidence much of which is outlined on this thread, claim to have heard, felt and experienced exlosions before and after the plane hit. A bunch of government sponsored engineers trying to use various weird ways of explaning, how such a previously unknown event managed to happen not once but three times in one place on the same day. How do you like the odds? You are of course someone who thinks nuclear waste is no worse than lead, so anything is possible. Of course Rabbit knows you must really know how hopeless is your cause, you just have to keep up the pretense Natty, or they won’t pay you.
But don’t worry, it is being brought on, and it is being brought on from more than one direction too. How long do you think this Junta can stay standing against it’s current failure on all fronts? Another year? Two? Maybe three but Rabbit doubts they can hold it together any longer than another two, before they’ll have to drop the disguise and fire up the ovens. By then even idiots like most of the morons who still dream on will be awake and angry.
It is hard to believe you would repost the link of errors which rabbit has already highlighted and which you refer to now it is convenient as you try to use something out of context. So Rabbit shall stop your cherry picking and let’s look at the whole artcile, which is of course referenced on many points raised, on the site, Nat had kindly re linked above.
How does that help your cause Nat?
jesus 600+ comments…
Nitzche already declared that god was dead years ago.
Get with it people.
Get hip, Turdbooger. 600 comments that you haven’t read.
Friedrich Nietzsche also said :
” there was only one true Christian, and he died on the cross. ” </i>
Nietzsche said that David? Curious. That’s probably what unconsciously triggered my response when my frosh world history prof declared there had never been a single true Christian in all of history. I leapt up and said, “Well sir, perhaps One, but we all know what happened to Him.”
That made me a truly undeserving hero to all the Christians on campus for a week or so.
I guess I’ve always had a smart mouth. I knew some of it came from reading Nietzche in High School.
Wasn’t jesus jewish?
A Nazarene, actually. According to extant accounts. Some believe he was an Alien.
Yes, Jesus was a Palestinian Jew.
Do you have anything worthwhile to contribute Turd?
Jesus the Nazarene works for me too.
Click for Nazarene info.
“How does that help your cause Nat?”
I’m actually trying to help your cause, Rabbit. If you insist on holding on to your demolition fantasy, at least refine your argument so you might have a chance of trying to convince someone beyond the choir.
That is what 911review is saying to Philip Berg and William Rodriguez.
911review and oilempire (they link to each other) appear to at least be half-way reasonable in what they buy into. (I think they’re still in outer-space somewhere) I would suggest putting a little more faith in them, and less in the sources that they disparage.
Looking forward to that trial…I hope it’s televised!!
i thought my joke was pretty worthwhile. I was surprised you got it.
Turd,
Yes. Your comment was worthwhile and I apologize for my disparaging remark.
Any other jokes? I like to laugh.
Luminous Beauty,
You can find a reference to the Nietzsche quote here :
Nietzsche : Religion
Rabbit is mostly in agreeance with 911.Review it is he who first posted the link Natty the Lying Batty. It doesn’t disparage any particular source or issue Rabbit believs in, it supports it, stupid girl. As for the other one, it said nothing, it merely attacked sites, and as said, Rabbit is aware form his own readings the criticism of some of those sites was right off the mark, had nothing to do with reality on that site, that is common tactic of Government propaganda. Of course you would think your games are just soo convincing and NOBODY could possibly doubt you are genuine and open minded and honest. If you knew how you came across to us you wouldn’t want to do it to yourself. besiders which it is us who are using you to propound the very well referenced and convincing argumenst against the official lie. If your lie theory doesn stand up to facts, it doesn’t Natty. No amount of repitition or screeching or petty character attacks are going to change something as big as this. You are labouring as Rabbit said to hide a Pink Elephant in the living room. It isn’t working. How was it you accounted for the seven LIVE SUICIDE BOMBERS NATTY?
William Rodriguez and twenty people have not formed a cabal within minutes of the collapse of those buildings to bring discredit on the government. theyc ame forward with their stories right from the start. They were ignored, officially ignored and an obvious conspiracy enacted to keep a lid on their story. WELL IT HASN’T WORKED. If we are the choir, Natty we are one hell of a big and growing one. OUR combined voices will utterly drown your lies out and will replace them with a genuine effort to find the truth and BRING THE PERPETRATORS TO JUSTICE!
Especially the mongrels who ordered and allowed it to happen.
Here is a little more jocularity :
Three Proofs that Jesus was Jewish :
He went into his father’s business.
He lived at home until the age of 33.
He thought his mother was a virgin, and his mother thought he was God.
click here for more
Natalie the 911 review does not attack Rodriguez’ story, but more the way in which it is being handled legally. The thing to remember is that we already know the story of Rodriguez it was reported in enough detail from early on and has been consistent in that it allows for no doubt about there having been explosions in the building before the plane hit, someone was injured in it and there are more than a dozen random witnesses. The legal case may well be being mishadled, and it is not too hard to imagine that could be deliberate. As 911 Review says.
The Witness report is still what it is, you read it above.
The 911 Review site has been wrong occasionally and it is an extremely conservative site as it happens.
But either you take the site seriously or you don’t natty. You accept the site is telling the truth based on facts, then you must explain what facts they have misunderstood to arrive at the following conclusion.
Despite your innuendos to the contrary the site doesn’t list any of Rabbit’s trusted sources and he keeps telling you, Rense just disseminates news, via the original sites mostly, not biased except the in house articles. Which is normal.
The other site you mention is however listed by 911 review as DISINFO. Your bread and butter Natty.
..............more
As a matter of fact Rabbit finds the site to be somewhat questionable in it’s logic, it seems more into debunking on it’s own say so, and there are a lot of leaps of faith. If anything it said conflicted with anything else Rabbit already trusted, he would be forced to look with less favour upon it, it doesn’t even make a good case for the things it claims to support which rabbit finds interesting.
Point is Natty, the buildings were brought down with explosives no matter how you look at it. Physics, history, witnesses, visual evidence. Whistleblowers and obvious disinfo projects such as you just to top off the obvious culpability.
Natty hates Mr Griffin so much, she should be made to read another of his very excellent speeches. This one is well referenced too, Rabbit would be interested in any criticism of what he says, rather than Nat claiming he is on drugs. Somehow that just doesn’t cut it .
David Ray Griffin: 9/11 and the American Empire
“But either you take the site seriously or you don
Now Natty the foot shooting Batty, has asked about polls. Athough she tried to put a spin on it having to do with explosives…........ nobody claimed any such thing….....there are plenty of polls about showing the distrust of even Americans, (Gullible creatures) for the official LIE.
Zogby, 2004
<blockquote>Half of New Yorkers Believe US Leaders Had Foreknowledge of Impending 9-11 Attacks and
No Natty, you are wrong and have been shown to be already. The structures were not unique, they were of a standard type of construction, although there was an attempt by Fema to pretend they were missing certain struictural components early on. This was after the eveidence had been removed from the scene, and before the buildings plans became available. Thus the original structure was shown and it was not what the coverup report claimed. the engineers claims have all been dealt with above. You are pulling your claasic number of raising small pointeless objections, losing every single point along the way, and then pretending you’ve achieved some great feat of debating. You have failed as always to come across as anything but a desperate SHILL for the official lie. How irrational can you get than to ignore physics, witnesses, one’s own eyes and all the history of building fires and demolitions and still cling to a story which even a year ago didn’t wash with the most gullible people on earth. A story which includes a series of outright lies about what was known and what was done on the day. A story which ignored an entire third building collapse which had no plane crash. A story which lists nineteen men as suicide bombers, even after seven of them turn up alive and well.
You need to moderate your ideas a bit Natty you are coming across as a complete nutcase. Rabbit never knew and ANTI-government conspiracy theorist with as much craziness in their ideas. You are a lunatic, Natty, the above details are enough to prove that anybody who believes in the official story can only do so by ignoring all the facts and a huge amount of witnesses and whistleblowing evidence even. You are suggesting a far greater conspiracy than anything we are Natty, and what do we stand to gain with our great conspiracy?
What are you now going on about you ignorant cow?
Why don’t you look at the facts and tell us what is wrong with whatever Jon Carlson has said. As for who he is, does it matter? Frankly Rabbit finds your innuendos so boring. He is not seeming to write everything, he wrote that article and he may have written something else we have posted. SO what? So bloody what?
you have a lot more important issues to address, before going into more character attcks on obscure people. The ZOGBY poll is good isn’t it Natty? Rabbit bets on that one year old poll alone that you are amongst a minority these days. you have the most corrupt and vicious governmnet on Earth Natty and it is not even an exageration to say so. You cannot continue to say they are above all suspicion when they have ignored so much crucial evidence and done so much to cover up the truth of what happened.
It just defies logic. you keep appealing to logic and reason, when the only illogical and unreasonable viewpoint is the one which accepts the TOTALLY discredited official lie.
By the way Natty the fall time of even twelve or fourteen seconds is still impossibly fast for a collapse under gravity alone. However, though this is the only fact you seem willing to accept on that site, which is called cherrypicking by the way, it is not PROOF that the time wasn’t closer to 10 seconds, and in fact the majority of claims are of ten seconds or less and they show how those times were arrived at. unlike the 911.Review, which simply makes the claim.
In truth Rabbit finds the 911.review to be less than the best referenced site. It also does oversimplify certain theories of others’ in it’s debunking. This is always something to be suspicious of. If someone needs to misrepresnt what another says in a debunking, much klike you often do Natalie, then you show only that you are misinformed and thus damages any other claims you make. Making a mistake, especially in the area of theory is quite forgiveable.
Deliberate lies, such as most of the official story has proven to be, is another matter altogether. Now whatever did happen on 911, it could not have happened without inside complicity. The WTCs did not fall down because of a couple of airliners and a bit of jet fuel, and the list of alleged hijackers is false, at least for seven of them.
Those things are facts. They mean the offiical story is a big fat lie and the fact that you struggle to defend it by avoiding reasonable debate on the IMPORTANT issues, shows you to be complicit in the lie.
A government propagandist has no business lecturing informed and decent people on honesty or reason.
The following is so false that it should by its own logic disqualify Natty from being taken seriously since the issues it tries to present are already blown away earlier.
<blockquote>I don
Now this directly brings your LIE into sharp relief. by the way all this has been posted above.
Lots of Rabbit words but Liars need help to bury themselves. There are hundreds of different references to the structure of the WTCs from before and since 911, Rabbit has used one, but he could have chosen more and there are of course the original WTC info sites still around. The only sites which call the structural integrity into question are those which have sprung up since 911 to try and spread a myth, which is hereby, debunked. They only do this by talking in generalities, and by misrepresenting the actual structure. If it seems too much to believe that your government could so blatantly lie and decieve, even to the extent of spreading false propaganda, that is too bad. The fact of this can be established merely by looking at the details and comparing them with the official lie.
It is not nice to realise our government has become a threat to our lives and our freedoms, but it would be worse not to know it.
If there was even a shadow of a case for the official lie, don’t you think that a government shill, like Natty, she is the real deal folks, would try and make it? Instead of just pulling obvious avoidance and petty character assasinations of any and all who would witness against the lie.
Things that make us go Hmmm..
Rabbit already knows what Natty will say to the last one.
She will start by wanting to know who Christopher Bollyn is, or she’ll just say he is on drugs or something. Wasn’t that what she said about Griffin…... on Drugs?
She’s a sharp debater our Natty.
I don’t know who Chris Bollyn is, apparently nobody does, but it would appear that even little ol’ me has better investigative skills than he.
It didn’t take more than three or four seconds to learn that the Madrid building fire actually strengthened the WTC collapse theory put forth by the nerds.
<i>“Because of the height of the structure and the extent of the blaze, firefighters could only mount a containment operation and ensure that neighbouring buildings were protected. The fire eventually finished 26 hours later, leaving a complete burn-out above the fifth floor. The steel-glass fa
Nattys post isn’t worthy of comment.
You are not making any case Natty. Rabbit will now start buring you in technical Proof, which is hardly necessary because for anyone who has read all above, the matter is closed. The following has already been posted but you need reminding obviously. The fact that there were some differences in structure, is certainly no more important than the fact the fire burned MUCH hotter for 26 hours.
AGAIN
<blockquote>On Feburary 13, 1965, real estate baron Lawrence Wien called reporters to his office to charge that the design of the Twin Towers was structurally unsound. Many suspected that his allegation was motivated by a desire to derail the planned World Trade Center skyscrapers to protect the value of his extensive holdings, which included the Empire State Building. In response to the charge, Richard Roth, partner at Emery Roth & Sons, the architectural firm that was designing the Twin Towers, fired back with a three-page telegram containing the following details. 5
THE STRUCTURAL ANALYSIS CARRIED OU BY THE FIRM OF WORTHINGTON, SKILLING, HELLE & JACKSON IS THE MOST COMPLETE AND DETAILED OF ANY EVER MADE FOR ANY BUILDING STRUCTURE. THE PRELIMINARY CALCULATIONS ALONE COVER 1,200 PAGES AND INVOLVE OVER 100 DETAILED DRAWINGS.
...
4. BECAUSE OF ITS CONFIGURATION, WHICH IS ESSENTIALLY THAT OF A STEEL BEAM 209
Fat lot of good that does you anyway. The concrete Center is a trade site and it draws a comparison between the two in the way it does in an attempt to promote concrete. Hardly what one could call an impartial comment on the overall design similarities or differences. That is beside the point anyway because the statement refers only to the Interim NIST report which we have already proven relied on false design parameters, and is itself under a substantial clowd in every important respect. This is a typical way you mob of Clowns in the US JUNTA and it’s ORGANS go about trying to pervert the truth, and too many of us are awake up for it to do any good anymore.
You feed some lies into the system via false reports. You then point to the reports in the media and elsewhere about those reports and even when the logic of your theories falls down you can still point to the false reports and claiming at least the facts are proven by them being thus reported.
How stupid do you think people are? Obviously you must think we are dumber than you, we’re not. Your masters may hold the guns and curfews over us for a short while Natty, but sooner or later you lot will have to answer to the people,m we can flick you pricks of our collective back like a bug, when finally you annoy us enough.
Of course Rabbit could just answer the Natty’s post by saying like she would, Who exactly has written this site? How can Rabbit see who the person is? How qualified he is, Where is his data referenced anywhere?, Beware of unsourced claims is a good motto. Well Natty Rabbit prefers to use his common sense and he can see that the site seems genuinely to be trying to sell concrete to industry. It revels in concret and that is all. It certainly does not include anything of use to the case as it does no more than refer to a report, which is full of inconsistencies, errors and omissions. You have long since lost the NIST report as anything of subsatnce so best you avoid it’s use in future. You see it is the thing we are discrediting here. What a Daft girl Natty is.
There is also this however on the Concrete selling site, from England, about the Windsor Tower and it does contrast with the WTCs because they did have modern fire proofing despite an early attempt by NIST to claim otherwise.
The so called Investigation is given a very well researched treatement here, and if anyone wishes to claim the FEMA report is anything but shallow piss meant to cover a bigger stain, they had better be prepared to tackle “ALL” the issues on that site. That doesn’t include the authors even, because it is in black and white. The report is there and so is a commentary with references all the way.
So Rabbit calls you Natty, get out of the ditch and spin a better spell my gel, that one didn’t go so well. How do you explain 7 live Suicide Bombers Natty? since you have failed to give any cover to any other part of the elephant.
More of the Choir Natty?
Marin County Post
The choir is big and it is diverse.
What does Nat have? A Glee Club? A duo maybe?
[url=“http://tinyurl.com/dfy93”]Taking a Closer Look: Hard Science and the Collapse of the World Trade Center
[/url]
by Dave Heller, article originally appeared in Garlic and Grass
More Choir, Natty
Damn the important one got broken.
Taking a Closer Look: Hard Science and the Collapse of the World Trade Center
Stick it back and tell electrons to STAY.
“A light structural element can heat up quickly and the resulting expansion can produce an outward bulging away from the slab edge which can create internal flues if it happens before the facade glazing breaks.”
source
“The Windsor Tower was completely gutted by the fire on 12 February 2005. A large portion of the floor slabs above the 17th Floor progressively collapsed during the fire when the unprotected steel perimeter columns on the upper levels buckled and collapsed (see Figure 1). It was believed that the massive transfer structure at the 17th Floor level resisted further collapse of the building.”
“The fire protection on the existing steelworks below the 17th floor had been completed at the time of fire except for the 9th and 15th floors. When the fire spread below the 17th floor, those protected perimeter columns survived, except for the unprotected columns at the 9th and 15th floors which all buckled in the multiple floor fire (see Figure 2). However, they did not cause any structural collapse. Obviously, the applied loads supported by these buckled columns had been redistributed to the remaining reinforced concrete shear walls. Nevertheless, structural fire analysis should be carried out before such a conclusion can be drawn.” (Trustworthy Fire Engineers)
source
“In fact, comparisons between the Windsor tower and the WTC towers are limited because of the very different structures of these buildings. The Twin Towers and Building 7 were both 100% steel-framed, with columns consisting of box-beams and I-beams as much as three feet wide and of steel up to several inches thick. In contrast, the Windsor building was framed in steel-reinforced concrete, with columns of concrete reinforced by thin sections of rebar. The concrete pillars in the Windsor building are clearly visible in the photographs showing the intact core exposed by the collapsed facade. It is not clear what materials were used to frame the perimeter, but their apparent thinness indicates that the the core was the main load-bearing component of the building.” (911better_but_still_in_denial_research)
source
Now, after reading all about the Windsor tower from a variety of sources, aside from the obvious conclusion you should draw, which is that unprotected steel buckles and collapses, are you prepared to admit that the article by Chris Bollyn that contained this:
“After 24 hours, however, the tower, which was a similar construction to the twin towers of the World Trade Center, remained standing.”
should be put in the circular file?
And your last article is yet another example of someone we’re suppose to take seriously yet who doesn’t demonstrate either the knowledge or the honesty to point out the unique construction of the trade towers, as opposed to other conventional steel buildings.
One can only conclude that the author is either ignorant, or a propagandist. My hunch is both.
Found this :
religious quiz
This is the God Squad thread and since only the hardcores are still reading these commments I have posted it here.
I have taken a similar quiz before. If anyone has another worth taking (not saying this one is) please share it.
David’s results :
You fit in with:
Taoism
Your ideals mostly resemble those of the Taoist faith. Spirituality is the most important thing in your life. You strive to live by all of your ideals, and live a very intellectually focused life.
50% spiritual.0% reason-oriented.
Natalie, the best you can muster is to raise a small possibility that the towers might have fallen from fire alone, do you not get it?
If we are generous and grant you this, which can only be done by taking the best of what you have posted and ignore the sources Rabbit has posted, and most all he has said, if we grant you it “could somehow in the realms of possibility, have happened three times in a row, on one day like this, then all that means is it is possible. It doesn’t prove it did happen. Do you know what most destroys your case? The ONLY thing the government has to do to establish the credibility of their story which is losing ground daily, is to release what they have still got of the eveidenece they have witheld. There will be enough just in a few videos and some recorded converstions, to completely demolish the entire alternative theory crowd. There can only be ONE reason they would not do that, Natalie, and do you know what that is? ———————————WE DO!
Do you think picking apart the details of the two buildings comparisons is going to help the bigger picture?
If the structural case for the WTC collapses was sound, has it not occurred to Natty that four years down the track, these theories would be going the way of several others which have come along and been discredited?. Sure you still atrribute some of those theories to us, the redundancy of some of your posts has been in attending to things nobody here was claiming. The fact is that the theory of explosive demolition of the buildings has been the most consistently growing cause celebre. Not just more and more ordinary people, but most crucially as you recognise, more and more experts and influential people.
The official case for the buildings collapse always was shaky, and the best that can be said of it is it is collapsing more slowly than the WTCs. That it is collapsing can be witnessed by the size and growth rate of our Choir<> as evdenced by many of the above sources and a few more which have just arrived into the world, which will be added shortly.
It is collapsing, and you can’t make a case for The Junta withholding the evidence which would exonerate it in the face of mounting world hostility, distrust and the same from many of it’s own citizens. WE the doubting and swelling multitudes are saying we believe they did it, and everything points to that, and the best they do to disprove it, is to send people like you out onto the internet to rattle the debate a bit. Now propaganda has its uses, sure, but if you have the EVIDENCE, a couple videos and a few recordings of Firefighters who were not on a secret Mission for Gods sake.
WHAT THE HELL IS SO SECRETIVE ABOUT THE RADIO COMMUNICATIONS BETWEN FIREMEN HELPING TO SAVE LIVES ON 911?<b>
Why keep them secret when the result is about half of Americans are ready to believe their government committed and atrociously cynical mass murder on home soil?
<b>AND What is so important to be kept secret on a privately owned video which shows a plane crashing into the PENTAGON, if that is all it shows?
Unless you can answer these questions Natalie, then you ducking the most important and damning TRUTH. If you even try to answer those questions, the ONLY conclusion is that you are a Government SHILL. There are no answers which will convince even a six year old.
Scene: Six year old kid sees Dad pick up something off the ground.
Kid: <i>What was that?
Dad: Nothing
Kid: Behind your back
Dad: I’m holding nothing behind my back
Kid: Show me
.....
Kid: The other hand
Dad: No
Does the kid believe the father? Should he?
Curious Monkey
You like the little qyuizzy things don’t you. Have you seen Rabbit’s Billy Cart Story on another thread?
Oh yes
Rabbit is placed thus on this monkey ladder:
Spiritualism
Your ideals are mostly spiritual, but in an individualistic way. While spirituality is very important in your life, organized religion itself may not be for you. It is best for you to seek these things on your own terms.
80% spiritual.
60% reason-oriented.
Well what does one expect for an Gnostic Rabbit.
......................................Shiny Rabbit...................................^^...........................
Climb the Monkey Ladder please Natty, let us see where you end up.
Go forth and proselytise Dave, let your curiosity be your guide, sally forth and survey the site for the rest like the busy Monkey does best. Rabbit is suddenly quite interested in the results of this quizzy thing. It is simple and kind of cute but it will do for a show, push it and let us see how it goes.
Natty who talks of unprotected steel buckling and twisting, is forgetting the steel in the WTC was fire proofed. There were some attempts to claim it was not, early on like other structural lies which were set to rights once the plans and the rest of the information was examined, this one was tossed out. the fact that the Spanish Windsor building did not have fireproofing was being rectified when the accident happened. The main thing from this incident to be gleaned is that after more than 24 hours of very hot fire, and a similar overall design the building did not collapse.
It is also only one example, there are plenty more and some are referred to in sources already given. The end is nigh for you attempt at a case, you never got even one block on the ground, you might as well pack it in. seriously.
In the event you still have need of more humiliation, and Rabbit is glad as always to oblige, but then you should get down to the serious stuff and stop playing with pebbles. The rocks have been identified, by Rabbit. he can list them, but will only rub your nose in it while doing so, so best to try showing you have some brains and powers of comprehension, and address the ROCKS.
HINT:
Rabbit post of 11:28 is a pretty fair sized boulder. But it is among peers. You Natalie are not my dear.
Here is what the quiz thought of me today,I might answer the questions differently,depending on my mood.
You fit in with:
Humanism
Your ideals mostly resemble that of a Humanist. Although you do not have a lot of faith, you are devoted to making this world better, in the short time that you have to live. Humanists do not generally believe in an afterlife, and therefore, are committed to making the world a better place for themselves and future generations.
30% scientific.
60% reason-oriented.
In case anyone cares…:-)
Kaw Valley Kid - thanks for sharing the results
I hoped you would be one of the hardcores still visiting this thread. Did you ever take this one :
oops ... this one :
political compass
Rabbit cares KVK, thanks, it is interesting and a pattern is forming of how the results compare. This one is harder to predict than the Political compass, since mostly it is politics which is on display on these threads. Nevertheless the pattern is beggining to form, now he sees these three.
What will the Vampire be?
So Dave, does the HTML code writtend like this go OK, Rabbit got into trouble before somewhere trying to post that to someone and the electrons were thieving it.
By the way, has Natty ever said thankyou for the HTML tips?
She was thanked for the Tinyurls when we finally sorted out the things about postings, and she was graciously offered some of the nice new fruit thereafter, the combination of which has made us all feel much cleverer.
But has there ever been an acknowledgement of the niceness of people, and Rabbits who so easily and generously shared of their bounty?
Just a little sniffy Rabbit remark.
Dude! Formidable thread! You guys really are hardcore!
;-) God love the lot of ya
OK David, as I write this NPR is saying there might be more in common with the Dalai Lama and neuro-physicists than you might think. Not news to me, particularly, but an interesting moment of synchronicity. So I took your silly quiz and got some good chuckles out of it. Like wondering if I ever believed in the Easter Bunny. I was wondering who would admit to being even the tiniest bit gullible, when I thought, ‘hey, I got roped into taking this silly quiz, am I gullible.’ It was fun, and oh yeah, my results:
Spiritualism
Your ideals are mostly spiritual, but in an individualistic way. While spirituality is very important in your life, organized religion itself may not be for you. It is best for you to seek these things on your own terms.
80% spiritual.
80% reason-oriented.
Rabbit, always works for me. Except that one time just above. I was getting ready to paste in the URL and it was like the submit button got clicked. Eager electrons. Thanks for sharing your results and the encouragement to bring the quiz to the others.
Luminous Beauty, I wondered the same thing about believing in Easter Bunny so I just answered as best I could. I think it was a poke at faith/belief systems. The recant on your death bed question was tricky too. I recant every day, sometimes several times a day. hee hee. Thanks for sharing the results.
I know about that pesky submit button. Forgot about the death bed question. Also pretty funny. I both hope and suspect the moment I cease recanting (i.e., learning something new that forces me to re-evaluate my level of understanding and depth of wonder in the world) is likely to be the moment I die. After that I rather suspect I’ll be making a brand new set of mistakes.
Luminous Beauty, what is NPR?
David, National Public Radio .
Luminous Beauty and anyone else who cares to, please email me :
braverdave@hotmail.com
I promise I am not a stalker and do not have cooties :)
Just want to discuss some things on a personal and off topic level sometimes.
Sitting here in front of the computer, drinking a beer (excellent local craft/micro brewery), dinner in the oven.
In small print on the label of the beer bottle :
” drink locally .. think globally ”
I like the idea of a group of friends stretched out across the world. All different but the same. All knowing others and knowing themselves.
Maudlin Monkey
Rabbit felt it is a good day for Pina Colada in the sun. Saturday morning and people keep coming in the door, giving Rabbit money. Some take away boats, others are paying boats off for christmas, it is fun, collecting the money but the Pina Colada and peace pipe help pass the time in between. Mrs rabbit will be along soon to pillage Rabbit’s pockets she has an instinct for these things.
Thanks Kuya, we don’t take prisoners, it is true. We build these whopping great big threads sometimes too, just because we can.
Rabbit sincerely hopes this is the vinegar stroke for the Natty.
The Choir seems to have had quite a recruiting run of late nayy, and the following is kinda cool.
<blockquote>By Elaine Jarvik
Deseret Morning News
The physics of 9/11
<blockquote>In a 9,000-word article that Jones says will be published in the book “The Hidden History of 9/11,” by Elsevier, Jones offers these arguments:
Ho Hum ......another qualified Choir member
At what point one wonders does someone like Nat the Bat accept that there game is up?
AND it seems the passengers may be getting closer to being accounted for
Oooh . Natalie, what nasty things are you trying to hide?
Hey, not bad, Rabby. You finally found someone with some actual credentials in a field that is somewhat applicable to the subject at hand. And as predicted, you were eager to crow about him, even after repeatedly poo-pooing other professionals. Of course I understand it would be unfair for me to suspect that this guy has been “gotten to”, or has other motivations. (because of the exemption.)
I must point out though that like Griffin, who he referenced along with the other usual suspects, he provides very little original thinking and relies on the same old repeated and nearly identical propaganda we’ve grown so familiar with. He did drop a brick, though. And he makes solar cookers.
How was it to actually read an account from the real news media? Must have startled you cuz you quickly retreated back to your comfort zone.
Was Barbara among the passengers?
NataLIE, Such a graceful concession.
Not that formidable, Kuya. If you just ignore the flame war between Rabbit and Natalie, the thread boils down to approximately twenty-three posts.
Getting back to the topic of the day:
Q: What do you get when you cross an atheist with a Jehovah’s Witness?
A: Someone who knocks on doors for no apparent reason.
Three people were about to be executed during the Reign of Terror in the French Revolution: a Rabbi, a Priest and a Secular Humanist.
The executioner dragged the Rabbi from the cart and shoved him onto the platform of the guillotine.
“Have you any last words for the crowd before you die?”, he asked.
“I believe in the one, true God,” he shouted, “the God of Abraham and Moses. He will save me from this ignominious demise.”
The executioner forced his head into the cradle of guillotine, locked it in place, raised the blade and released it. The blade dropped to within one centimeter of the Rabbi’s neck and, Thump!, stopped.
“Oooh, a miracle!”, cried the crowd, and the executioner was compelled to release the Rabbi.
“Told you so.”, said the Rabbi.
The executioner then siezed the Priest and ordered him to speak his mind before he died.
“I believe in the Holy Trinity”, declared the Priest, “the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. He will save me in my moment of need.”
Once again, the executioner raised and released the blade, and once again, it dropped short of the Priest’s neck.
“Another miracle.”, muttered the crowd.
The executioner released the Priest and forced the Secular Humanist to the platform.
“So what have you got to say for yourself.”, he asked, but the Secular Humanist simply stared at the terrible contraption, eyes glazed, slack-jawed, sweat dripping from his face.
The executioner poked him in the ribs and demanded a few words for the crowd.
“Aha!”, said the Secular Humanist, “There’s the problem. There’s an obstruction in the gear assembly. Right there!”
A minister is hiking through the woods one Sunday after delivering his sermon. As he is walking along, he spots a hungry bear. Unfortunately for the minister, the bear spots him, and begins to chase him through the forest.
At first, it appears that the minister might make it, but the chase wears on, and the bear begins to gain on the minister. Finally, the minister trips on a rock, and knowing he had no other chance, begins to pray.
“Lord,” says the man, “I’ll never ask you for anything, ever again, but please, hear my prayer. Dear God, make this bear a Christian.” The minister turns around and, to his surprise and joy, the bear stops in his tracks. His paws together and his head bowed in prayer, the bear says, “Lord, thank you for this food I am about to eat!”
another variation ...
An atheist was taking a walk through the woods, admiring all that the accident of evolution had created. “What majestic trees! What powerful rivers! What beautiful animals!” he said to himself.
As he walked alongside the river he heard a rustling in the bushes behind him. He turned to look, just in time to see a 7-foot grizzly charge towards him. He ran as fast as he could up the path. He looked over his shoulder & saw the bear closing in on him. He tried to run even faster, so scared that tears were coming to his eyes. He looked over his shoulder again, and the bear was even closer.
His heart was pumping frantically as he tried to run even faster, but he tripped and fell on the ground. He rolled over to pick himself up and saw the bear right on top of him raising his paw to kill him.
At that instant, he cried out, “Oh my God!”
Just then, time stopped… The bear froze; the forest was silent; even the river stopped moving. A bright light shone upon the man, and a voice came out of the sky, saying, “You deny My existence all of these years; teach others I don’t exist; even credit My creation to a cosmic accident, and now do you expect Me to help you out of this predicament? Am I to count you as a believer?”
The atheist, ever so proud, looked into the light and said, “It would be rather hypocritical to ask to be a Christian after all these years. But could you make the bear a Christian?”
“Very well,” said the voice.
As the light went out, the river ran, the sounds of the forest continued, and the bear put his paw down. The man breathed a sigh of relief. Then the bear brought both paws together, bowed his head and said: “Lord, I thank you for this food, which I am about to receive.”
Does evil exist?
The university professor challenged his students with this question. Did God create everything that exists? A student bravely replied, “Yes, he did!”
“God created everything? The professor asked.
“Yes sir”, the student replied.
The professor answered, “If God created everything, then God created evil since evil exists, and according to the principal that our works define who we are then God is evil”. The student became quiet before such an answer. The professor was quite pleased with himself and boasted to the students that he had proven once more that the Christian faith was a myth.
Another student raised his hand and said, “Can I ask you a question professor?”
“Of course”, replied the professor.
The student stood up and asked, “Professor, does cold exist?”
“What kind of question is this? Of course it exists. Have you never been cold?” The students snickered at the young man’s question.
The young man replied, “In fact sir, cold does not exist. According to the laws of physics, what we consider cold is in reality the absence of heat. Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-460 degrees F) is the total absence of heat; all matter becomes inert and incapable of reaction at that temperature. Cold does not exist. We have created this word to describe how we feel if we have no heat.”
The student continued, “Professor, does darkness exist?”
The professor responded, “Of course it does.”
The student replied, “Once again you are wrong sir, darkness does not exist either. Darkness is in reality the absence of light. Light we can study, but not darkness. In fact we can use Newton’s prism to break white light into many colors and study the various wavelengths of each color. You cannot measure darkness. A simple ray of light can break into a world of darkness and illuminate it. How can you know how dark a certain space is? You measure the amount of light present. Isn’t this correct? Darkness is a term used by man to describe what happens when there is no light present.”
Finally the young man asked the professor, “Sir, does evil exist?”
Now uncertain, the professor responded, “Of course as I have already said. We see it every day. It is in the daily example of man’s inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil.”
To this the student replied, “Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is not like faith, or love that exist just as does light and heat. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God’s love present in his heart. It’s like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light.”
The professor sat down.
another variation ...
A college class was led by an atheist professor, and every day he’d stand in front of his class and say, “Have you ever seen God?” to which nobody would answer. Then he’d ask, “Have you ever felt God?” and nobody would answer. Finally he’d ask, “Have you ever heard God?” and, like the other times, nobody would answer. He then would say, “It is obvious that there is no God.”
One day a Christian student had been having an extremely bad day; her car broke down, her mother was sick, her boyfriend was out of town, and she’d gotten a bad grade on one of her exams. She had been fed up with her professor’s little act every morning, so she decided to do something about it.
While the professor stood up at the beginning of class and did his thing, the student had an idea. She got up and said, “Professor, would you mind if I said something?” He said, “Of course not. This is an expressive classroom, and I think it would be fine if you spoke your mind.”
The girl said to the class, “Have you ever seen our professor’s brain?” and nobody answered. Then she asked, “Have you ever felt our professor’s brain?” and nobody answered. Finally she asked, “Have you ever heard our professor’s brain?” and, like the other times, nobody answered.
She then said, “It is quite obvious that our professor has no brain.”
and yet another ...
An atheist professor was teaching a college class and he told the class that he was going to prove that there is no God.
He said, “God, if you are real, then I want you to knock me off this platform. I’ll give you 15 minutes!”
Ten minutes went by.
The professor kept taunting God, saying, “Here I am, God. I’m still waiting.”
He got down to the last couple of minutes and a Marine just released from active duty, and newly registered in the class, walked up to the professor, hit him full force in the face, and sent him flying from his platform.
The professor struggled up, obviously shaken and yelled, “What’s the matter with you? Why did you do that?”
The Marine replied, “God was busy, so He sent me.”
The original
I posted this on another thread but I don’t think anyone but chopper read it.
A young couple were on their way through the Sierras to Reno in order to be wed, when their car went over the mountainside and crashed, killing them both instantly.
Oh, for Christ’s sake. Why do the Marines always get stuck with doing God’s dirty work? Let us pray: “This is my rifle. My rifle is my friend…”
LB’s contribution to the thread reminds me of a joke I heard on the radio, that the Ten Commandments were removed from the Courthouse vestibule because among all the lawyers, businessfolk and politicians who frequent the building someone wopuld be sure to sue the city “for creating a hostile work environment.”
The Choir is growing Natalie and you don’t have a story which works, so your cause is doomed.
How was it to actually read an account from the real news media? Must have startled you cuz you quickly retreated back to your comfort zone.
For your dumbfounded information, clown….... Rabbit keeps track of ALL media sources, and he found this particular article quite by chance, via his “Alternative Media” sources which as has been pointed out repeatedly, mostly link to MSM sources. All the sources posted by Rabbit have been “REAL MEDIA” you stupid girl, you have cast your innuendos, on most of them, but it hasn’t won you any ground. The fact remains that Natty, The Expert opinion about the Obvious controlled demolition, is mounting and it6 has always been there. Don’t expect new people to come on board and say anything different. the fact that they com,e on aboard and agree with us, is what is most telling. Your cause is doomed Natty, and it always has been. You can’t cover up a lie this big, even with millions of dollars worth of false prpganda, of which you are a part, despite your belated and throughly discrefdited denials.
Did Natty read the Article which is about the two flights? the information comes from the “Real Media” as you define it, Natty. The thing is a couple of internet researchers found the information and brought it into the open. The story makes it quite clear there is something VERY serious going down here. As for Barabara Olson being among them. More of your strawman disinfo tricks. the information did not refer to any actual passengers being identified, merely trhat the two flights landed somewhere they should not have.
AND Natty, all the denials by you is not going to change the fact that this story alone, may be the death knell of the whole LIE.
Keep on squirming and denying it Natty. The rate things are going Rabbit expects to have you on hand when the final blow comes, and it feels like it could be approaching fast.
Oh and Natty, isn’t it obvious why Jones does not provide any original thinking?
Because you dumb tart, there is no great mystery, the whole thing is obvious, and the only NEW thinking which was ever applied to the WTC collpases, was the attempt at blidsiding the whole scientific and Engineering community with such a pumped up, wobbly deck of cards, which is what the offiicial lie is. There is no new ideas needed to understand the truth here, people just need a bit of an awakener to see it, and Natty, they are waking up. Rabbit xan just sit here and watch your cause go down the drain by the day. Jones like anybody who stands up and defies your evil masters, is taking a chance and your innuendos about his motives suck deeply. To tell this truth takes courage. Rabbit who is among those who have been telling it since the begginning, and we were a small and much maligned minority back then, Rabbit knows it takes courage of the kind your side is devoid of.
By the way rabbit has not poo-pooed any experts, he has pointed out where they had erred in using false intel to arrive at their conclusions. Rabbit pointed out that most of the experts quoted by you, are being taken out of context, which was shown, and in the end, none of them do or can deny that the buildings were brought down by explosives. T
Now for fun, see how the new choir member sings, Nat the dead in the water bat.
[url=“http://tinyurl.com/a82jz”]Prof. Jones Tallks To
Arctic Beacon On WTC Demo[/url]
Your boat don’t float girly, your ship went straight to the bottom again.
Oh….........Natty.
Rabbit who has read the report from Professor Jones, just twigged to another one of your stupid self defeating statements. How could you make any judgement of what Professor Steven Jones, was saying, about how “original” or otherwise it was? You haven’t read it, only an article about it. Caught yourself out bigtime there. Now the facts which he is relying upon are certainly not new. They are as has been said here all along, FACTS and are not refuted. This is why no new FACTS were being presented, as said, we have them, and we have had them all along, that is why so many of us have known the truth all along.
You started by claiming there was no scientific, qualified support. Now Rabbit has given you bucket loads, and we are getting new stuiff daily. The BYU Professor, is just the latest, but it all spells DOOM for your case. DOOM for the EVIL JUNTA, your masters, and Natty, DOOM for Vampires who will be having the light shined into their piggy little eyes.
Hello to others on thread, Rabbit reads the thingys.
Dave, some of those stories Rabbit heard in church years ago, they are sort of Backslapping exercises, they get up sying these things in their sermons and “Witnessing” or “Tesifying”, they tell such little strories to each other smiling in self satisfied ways, seeing and revelling in a pround logic which is completely imaginary. The stories fail in their very essence to establish the things for which they are usually used. Much the same as the often illogical, largely Faith Based arguments which steer most of their lives.
They may well tell a story, but not the one they envision. They even had some currency with Rabbit way back then, they are of course satire. The poor old Christians see some justification in the fact that some arsehole attacks somebody in the name of his GOD. Ok the Prof was an arse hole, but the story was rigged against him in the first place, because in real life, even many atheist students would have called the good professor to task on grounds of etiquette if nothing else. Rabbit finds the Christian acceptance that it was cool for the soldier to assault the Prof because he was expressing his Disbelief. So what if he was doing it loudly, and irritatingly from a public platform? What then is public sermons, proselytising, and door knocking. If it is OK for someone to come around to my door and tell me that his religion is the ducks nuts, then it is OK for some dipshit to do the same thing and tell me there is no GOD.
So the story shows the Violent, crusading nature of Christianity, while it gives NO credence to the idea of GOD.
The bear stories show that whether or not there is a god is not going to make a scrap of difference to your life. Because he is no more involved with earth and it’s creatures daily affairs than the Moon…............in fact.. probably a whole lot less.
Thankyou Mr Zimmerman
Oh my name it is nothin’
My age it means less
The country I come from
Is called the Midwest
I’s taught and brought up there
The laws to abide
And that land that I live in
Has God on its side.
Oh the history books tell it
They tell it so well
The cavalries charged
The Indians fell
The cavalries charged
The Indians died
Oh the country was young
With God on its side.
Oh the Spanish-American
War had its day
And the Civil War too
Was soon laid away
And the names of the heroes
I’s made to memorize
With guns in their hands
And God on their side.
Oh the First World War, boys
It closed out its fate
The reason for fighting
I never got straight
But I learned to accept it
Accept it with pride
For you don’t count the dead
When God’s on your side.
When the Second World War
Came to an end
We forgave the Germans
And we were friends
Though they murdered six million
In the ovens they fried
The Germans now too
Have God on their side.
I’ve learned to hate Russians
All through my whole life
If another war starts
It’s them we must fight
To hate them and fear them
To run and to hide
And accept it all bravely
With God on my side.
But now we got weapons
Of the chemical dust
If fire them we’re forced to
Then fire them we must
One push of the button
And a shot the world wide
And you never ask questions
When God’s on your side.
In a many dark hour
I’ve been thinkin’ about this
That Jesus Christ
Was betrayed by a kiss
But I can’t think for you
You’ll have to decide
Whether Judas Iscariot
Had God on his side.
So now as I’m leavin’
I’m weary as Hell
The confusion I’m feelin’
Ain’t no tongue can tell
The words fill my head
And fall to the floor
If God’s on our side
He’ll stop the next war.
Bob Dylan
As for the professor and the class with no brain. Not one of them could see that the obvious answer is that GOD is all, just because he has evil, does not make him evil. God has all Love in him too. He is all, having the evil and the good, in infinite measure is why it is GOD. God is neither he nor she, GOD is if we are to be quite correct an IT.
Notice the Mention of WTC-7 and the times. The article is worth a read, it is by Symanski and is the latest and most compact appraisal of where we currently stand. Obviously Rabbit is not addressing this to natty, it is too late for deniars. Those interested in the latest 911 news do take the time to look.
Good Summary
Prof Jones main points, in his words.
* The three buildings collapsed nearly symmetrically, falling down into their footprints, a phenomenon associated with “controlled demolition” - and even then it’s very difficult, he says. “Why would terrorists undertake straight-down collapses of WTC-7 and the Towers when ‘toppling over’ falls would require much less work and would do much more damage in downtown Manhattan?” Jones asks. “And where would they obtain the necessary skills and access to the buildings for a symmetrical implosion anyway? The ‘symmetry data’ emphasized here, along with other data, provide strong evidence for an ‘inside’ job.”
* No steel-frame building, before or after the WTC buildings, has ever collapsed due to fire. But explosives can effectively sever steel columns, he says.
* WTC 7, which was not hit by hijacked planes, collapsed in 6.6 seconds, just .6 of a second longer than it would take an object dropped from the roof to hit the ground. “Where is the delay that must be expected due to conservation of momentum, one of the foundational laws of physics?” he asks. “That is, as upper-falling floors strike lower floors - and intact steel support columns - the fall must be significantly impeded by the impacted mass. . . . How do the upper floors fall so quickly, then, and still conserve momentum in the collapsing buildings?” The paradox, he says, “is easily resolved by the explosive demolition hypothesis, whereby explosives quickly removed lower-floor material, including steel support columns, and allow near free-fall-speed collapses.” These observations were not analyzed by FEMA, NIST nor the 9/11 Commission, he says.
* With non-explosive-caused collapse there would typically be a piling up of shattering concrete. But most of the material in the towers was converted to flour-like powder while the buildings were falling, he says. “How can we understand this strange behavior, without explosives? Remarkable, amazing - and demanding scrutiny since the U.S. government-funded reports failed to analyze this phenomenon.”
* Horizontal puffs of smoke, known as squibs, were observed proceeding up the side the building, a phenomenon common when pre-positioned explosives are used to demolish buildings, he says.
* Steel supports were “partly evaporated,” but it would require temperatures near 5,000 degrees Fahrenheit to evaporate steel - and neither office materials nor diesel fuel can generate temperatures that hot. Fires caused by jet fuel from the hijacked planes lasted at most a few minutes, and office material fires would burn out within about 20 minutes in any given location, he says.
* Molten metal found in the debris of the World Trade Center may have been the result of a high-temperature reaction of a commonly used explosive such as thermite, he says. Buildings not felled by explosives “have insufficient directed energy to result in melting of large quantities of metal,” Jones says.
* Multiple loud explosions in rapid sequence were reported by numerous observers in and near the towers, and these explosions occurred far below the region where the planes struck, he says.
That’s right Natty, Nothing NEW.
It has been said by some for a long time, it is nothing new to us. You are a professional liar, it is nothing new to you. But it is now being said by a respected Brigham Young University Professor, as well as ex administration officials amd many other qualified and respected people. Like the Article says, you mob will now go into overdrive to give the guy hell, destroy him, even kill him. God help the poor bastard because he comes across as a complete innocent. He is actually asking the government for evidence which nobody has been able to get near in four years. He has already been unwise in his choice of words and Rabbit expects he is already being roasted, out of context, but the liars are clutching at straws now and they’ll take anything. They might just have to give up soon, and stop pussyfooting around. that means they will simply arrest him and hold him without charges, incommunicado , the works, they can now you know. They won’t do it unless they have to, but soon they will have to. That or give up and face the music. Not likely. Natty is here to try and save their asses. She and her type are the frontline defences now, against the doom which is aproaching them. It is the light of truth which is the danger, and since you stand for darkness, as the story above points out truthfully, their is no darkness, it is just the absence of light. You Natty and Liars like you are only trying to hold back the light. You don’t have any power of your own, in the way we have the truth. You can only try to stop, Dam up, or destroy. You might as well try and stop the sun coming up. You don’t have enough towels, blankets or serviettes in the cupboard to cover the Big Pink Elephant Natty and Rabbit is not the only one who would appreciate it if you would drop it. We’ll call it a draw. You did not prove the buildings could have fallen down from a plane and a fire. Rabbit did not prove that they fell down from explosives.
I found this interesting and informative essay on the history of Islamic Science . It touches directly on some of the issues raised on this thread. When considered in the light of the Bush Administrations misuse and abuse of Science and what has been happening in Kansas and Dover, Pa. is quite illuminating of the lugubrious forces modern Conservatism has unleashed upon the world.
Rabbit, they were just simple stories. Some satire and comedy too. I never attributed infallibility or accuracy to any of them. Just shared them for discussion
You say ” If it is OK for someone to come around to my door and tell me that his religion is the ducks nuts,then it is OK for some dipshit to do the same thing and tell me there is no GOD.”
There is a door to door guy here in my town who does just that : knocks on doors to tell people there is no God. He even has tracts to leave behind if you were not home. And the world goes round.
Thanks for posting the Dylan song. What is the title of that song please ?
Luminous Beauty, great article on Islamic Science and a special thank you for digging out the original of the Preacher and the Bear . I really enjoyed it.
Sorry Dave, Rabbit knows why you posted the stories, and was concerned you might misunderstand he was having a dig, but no, only meant that some of the stories and the format especially was familiar from his days in Church. Using them as a serious comparison, is all.
The Dylan song is “With God on Our Side”
Actually Rabbit was making a transparent reference back on topic, really. But true anyway, I think.
David, if you want to hear an excellent rendering of “With God on Our Side” may I recommend the version by Aaron Neville, If you like Black Gospel at all. I do.
Here’s my offering in this spirit of Armistice Day:
It has beautiful traditional Irish tune. I weep like a baby whenever I hear it.
Thanks Rabbit, I understand. I knew you were having a dig, sorry for getting a little bristly.
...or maybe you weren’t having a dig? Doesn’t matter.
Luminous Beauty, thanks for the recommendation. I like gospel music too.
Rabbit wasn’t having a dig at Dave, but at the Christians since it is their thread, even if they won’t come out and claim it. Du er en folsome Fisk<>. A sensitive fishy. Rabbit doesn’t hurt his friend the curious fish monkey. Likes to play with him, since he does do funny things and Rabbits like funny things to. Have told you about Rabbits and Ball sports?
Lume you an Eric Bogle fan?
Rabbit thinks of him as our answer to <i>The Minstrel himself, Aussie Gold.
Dave Eric Bogle isn’t into Gospel Music. He is an (the) Aussie folk singer.
That is actually from Wikipedia, how cool, Mr Bogle is in a big internet encyclopedia.
Sorry Dave Rabbit just realised he missed a couple of lines and the gospel was referring to Aaron Neville. (Rabbit has no idea who he is, btw.)
This is new just when you thought you’d heard all about 911, there is this one.
Missiles from Woolworths?
Actually with the stuff being found now about the flights 77 and 175, this here and the Prof from BYU as the latest to join the Choir, this has all the makings of a landslide any one of these days.
The pressure is building, they only have so much they can do to hold it back, but it if keeps building the breakthrough is only a matter of when, not if. This is a very well referenced thing for all it’s newness to Rabbit. Have not yet checked all the sources it gives. Something tells the old Rabbit it has legs though.
“AND Natty, all the denials by you is not going to change the fact that this story alone, may be the death knell of the whole LIE.”
You are indeed correct, Rabbit, that in the case of the article describing a Boeing 767 landing safely in Cleveland, Greg Szymanski via Rense.com is referencing a story from a small but presumably legitimate news organization. However, what is not apparent to the casual reader, and that would appear to include you, is that the story retold by Szymanski has evolved, and has been molded into something that conveniently meets the requirements of reviving a fading fantasy.
Here is the relevant part of the original story by WCPO Cleveland obtained from the web archive of the page:
Plane Lands In Cleveland; Bomb Feared Aboard
Reported by: 9News Staff
Web produced by: Liz Foreman
9/11/01 11:43:57 AM
A Boeing 767 out of Boston made an emergency landing Tuesday at Cleveland Hopkins International Airport due to concerns that it may have a bomb aboard, said Mayor Michael R. White.
White said the plane had been moved to a secure area of the airport, and was evacuated.
United identified the plane as Flight 93. The airline did say how many people were aboard the flight.
United said it was also “deeply concerned” about another flight, Flight 175, a Boeing 767, which was bound from Boston to Los Angeles.
original story
Here is the relevant part of the recent article authored by Greg Szymanski:
On the morning of 9/11 a little known Cincinnati television station ran a story saying Flight 93 landed at Cleveland International Airport instead of crashing in Penn. as claimed in the official government story. Reporters at WCPO Channel 9 quoted then Cleveland Mayor Michael R. White as saying “a Boeing 767 out of Boston made an emergency landing due to a bomb threat,” the airplane landing safely, moved to a secure location and evacuated.
The early morning report went on to say United Airlines verified the plane as Flt. 93, but was also deeply concerned about another jetliner in the vicinity, Flight 175, flying from Boston to Los Angeles.
Former Mayor White, as well as United and WCPO, could not be reached for comment, but the evidence still remains, even though it was suspiciously removed from the television’s web site in June 2004 in and around the time of the 9/11 Commission hearings…..
Nobody could be reached for comment? I find that a little hard to believe.
......With the evidence trail getting colder and colder, the obvious still must be asked: if Flight 175 was slamming into the South Tower and Flight 93 was downed over Penn. like the govt. contends, why was Mayor White saying both planes were in the vicinity of Cleveland?
Szymanski is clearly equating the plane in Cleveland with the one that crashed in Pennsylvania. One problem is that Flight 93 was out of Newark, not Boston. Another is that it was a 757, not a 767.
Later, he adds the phrase “in the vicinity” which was not contained in the original story, I guess so he could include Flight 175 in the “mystery”.
To be sure, there is likely some errors in the original story (hence their retraction), as I don’t think United would have two Flight 93’s flying on the same day. There was another flight, that was a 767, Delta 1989, that did do an emergency landing at Cleveland that morning, along with confusion as to whether or not it had a bomb on board.
Szymanski is either deliberately dissembling, or is an incredibly poor journalist not to do basic fact-checking and point some of this stuff out. I suspect that he is intentionally trying to turn a simple mistake or two on the part of the reporter or United on a day of incredible confusion and panic into some grand nefarious scheme, with the bottom line intention of keeping his wallet full and his particular type of readership satisfied.
More innuendods and speculation with not a scrap of anything. Natty my source, linked directly to the original artcile so it is a bit hollow to suggest it was anything but 100% accurate. Rabbit looks at your quotes and see’s nothging which was not said in the original article, have no idea what you are getting at. The fact that the people who were referemced obviously declined to comment, is a surprise to you? Or maybe you are trying to pretend that they meant they could not find them? Natty are you old enough to drive? natty governmnet people are always refusing to be available to comment on such issues, but you conventiently avoid mentioning the rest of the story and that there is more reference to other media sources. NO sorry natty dfear we’ll be sticking with this one unless you can do better than that. You are a foll for even trying, since by the way, it is only listed as a news story. Rabbit has not said he believs it is tru. he certainly believes it seems probable, because it is providing answers to things which have been speculated about for a while. Rabbit always knows when you are being briefed on the new angle of attack, the latest propaganda. It only happens with the new stuff, things which the Junta has not yet had time to formalise a resonse to. You dispaear just as long as it tales beofr ethe new, co-ordinated response is up and running. You have been doing it for months and it is funny to watch.
Now you have obviously not looked too closely at anything which has been postedm especially the Flight 977 and 175 stuff, so best go and do some more study and don’t come round here making a bigger fool of your self. Unless of course abject humiliation is your turn on. It must be, it is all you’ve ever experienced around here. So long as you remain intellectually barren and morally bankrupt so it shall remain too.
Oh and Natty, we are the majority these days, remember the polls? So if WE say Symanski is a very respectable journalist and is far out in front of most of the MSM in courage and honesty, soory old girl, we are the majority. the guy is ace. He also does things like “PROVING” his sources, something the MSM has long since forgotten was necessary.
Got the flight number wrong above, but you can correct Rabbit on it and it will be like…...................... the first thing you ever successfully corrected Rabbit on.
Natty you don’t feel that since we have so far won every single exchange of facts and sourcing, that you should call it a day? You are losing this one so much worse than the DU one, which rabbit predicted. You may not have noticed but a few have come by this thread and gone from your side, or neutral, to realising the truth. Nobody has come close to taking you seriously. Baby even the house Trolls are not prepared to join you in this one. The same thing happened on the Depleted Uranium thread. Not even the House Trolls were prepared to sink that low, even they have more sense than to try and push this lie. They feel it in their silly hearts, the day of reckoning is near and the 911 lie, is doomed.
How poorly must a case stack up before even the House Trolls will not touch it? Not even Scorpy is going to play. Natty you are beginning to smell on this thread too. You have even without Rabbit’s help exposed your Shill status, but there is one final test, the triple Shill Test Rabbit calls this process. One more issue you have no doubt been assigned to monitor. Torture. Let us go somewhere and you can support the US torturing people. That is your position isn’t it lovely girl? US torture, is not the same as the Nad Guys, it is Democratic Torture. Humane Rape and Torture, isn’t it Natty.
Come on Bitch, let’s see your fangs.
Rabbit would be less than honest if he was unduly pleasant to you Natty, but surely you understand. It is your dishonesty, your sleaze which has done it.
Will she be back to back her useless attack? Or was she just clocking in there? Just a guerilla tactic, hit and run?
<i>“Natty my source, linked directly to the original artcile so it is a bit hollow to suggest it was anything but 100% accurate. Rabbit looks at your quotes and see
No way Natty. That is the stupidist little nit you ever picked. There is nothing wrong with saying flight 93 was in the vicinity for this is implicitly implied by the fact that Clevland took and interest. You are just doing the usual. If you doubtr the veracity, go and find something which refutes it.
the link on the rense article was broken within hours of it being posted, that is common when you scumbags are caught out, the links worked yesterday for Rabbit but can see they no longer dpo. They don’t just use professional liars like you, we know that shutting down articles on the net and hacking is big on your favorites list too. it is you guys doing the coverup, and Natty stop being pathetic. The public awareness of the scale of the LIE is growing daily, that has also been obvious in this thread. You are the fading party, you still have nothing except diversions and avoidance, anmd you still fail to address anything of significance.,.\
How do seven Suicide bombers survive alive? That is roughly the tenth time Rabbit raises that one. This thread stands as ulimate proof that you have raised a few small issues, failed to be able to make them stand up to anything except more damage to your own cause, and mostly avoided 90%, the most important 90% of the postings you are suppopsedly refuting.
by the way did you think no one would notice that the thing you quoted is not first hand witnesses and is only speculation. It would not be admissible in court, he saw nothing and admits it. He speculated on the thing only and you just posted that in answer to dozens of different sources on that particular story. rabbit din’t want ot post the whole thing but since you choose to misrepresent it he shall now have to do so.. Besdt way to show your lies. It will take a while to attach all the links but I’ll do it, just to piss you off.
Your link is not right, it is once again connected to nasty hacking things and Rabbit is not going near it. New computer is clean and you are not getting at Rabbit so easily this time. Try making an honest link, SHILL!
Of course we never forget even though Natty does, that we, and the people like Szymanski, are speculating upon known facts, not maintaining that we know what happened and all other possibilities are thence crap.
Another fact which you are now making a habit of ignoring is that the Government is witholding all the evidence. rabbit long since suggested you answer how that sits with any credibility you claim for them. You go back a couple of posts and read it. the things you are now failing to make much of a dent in, are nothing more tha articles about 911, they are posted for people to read and think about, invetsigate if they wish. Rabbit his indicated the fqact that he is not averse to them, they seem probable and until he has looked more closely himself he is not going top commit himself. You have of course forgotten about how you babble on about being discerning. What you really meant is to believe only the official line and no more. It is telling that you can see dozens of well sourced and verifiable articles about thses things, and yet you could see no more than a telivision report saying something had been said and you’d defend that to thje death. You have, not for the first time resorted to ad hominem attacks on sources and stories without even having read or verified them. Rabbit has read your so-called sources and dismantled them if necessary from a factual basis, no speculation, no innuendos, just staright up facts and related to the sources’ claims, not who the sources were. You asked for experts and you got more experts than you could attack the characters of, though you tried, until you were left with nothing but sly innuendos, based on nothing but your dirty winking eye.
You have a lot more attempts at debunking Natty, you have not touched the 90% of what has been presented and others who have read it have indicated it has convinced them. the CHOIR is growing and you are not even welcome to join, you jkust stay over there. Now how about you start on torture, forget this you’ve long since lost the 911 debate, the thing is probably going to be decided in the courts one of these days, and at the very least neither you nor Rabbit will get much older before the perpetrators are made known. the JUNTA is long since on its final downward spiral..
OK Rabbit, expects that your mob is going to take off the gloves before long, they have no choice because within six months 60% of the US population is going to be screaming for Bush’s impeachment and the whole Junta’s crimanal trials. Rabbit feels very confidant in predicting the Junta’s demise, but he is not a naive Rabbit, and expects them to make a lot more mess before they are brought to justice, or at least desptroyed.
Have we had This opinion yet?
Four months after 9/11 to the chagrin of the US Government former German Intelligence Minister Von Bulow spilled the 9/11 beans in an interview in the German daily newspaper, Tagesspiegel:
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/VonBuelow.html
This is one hell of a big and varied choir.
Maybe Rabbit is being over sensitive about the hacky things, he can find nothing after all,, but he doesn’t trust anything you post which starts expecting his computer to download anything.
Still no difference. The article is too long to post it has been Linked and it is much bigger and more substantial than Natty’s nit, about a second hand report and speculation.
Marine Res Lance Corporal Alan Reifenberg
<a href=“http://tinyurl.com/7heg3”>PA Transcripts</a>
Sometimes one comes across something which says it so well it is worth the cut and paste especially when Natty would answer the link itself with no more than its Rense so how could it be anything.
Well this could truly be said to be sourced at Rense itself,... see,.. exclusive.. So read the truth and see how corrupt and and craven anyone would have to be to maintain your line of non-reasoning, faith based, slander. Even the so-called suicide bombers are probably being slandered, by the real culprits.
WACK
Yes, I am sensitive, sometimes overly so. I like playing with you too Rabbit. It is fun.
I would also like to take this opportunity to thank Rabbit for his good works. Rabbit has tirelessly taken to task many issues and I would not see it be thanklessly so.
Thank you Rabbit
There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root.
Henry David Thoreau
Thanks Dave
All creatures enjoy an occassional stroke, though Rabbit is generally immune to flattery as well as insults.
Too bad we have to be mean to such a girl as Natty, Rabbit would much rather stroke her too, even if we disgreed, but how can one remain pleasant to someone who so clearly has an agenda, and is prepared to behave so dishonestly just to stop anyone seeking truth. If the truth is as she says, then all the government needs to do is release all the evidence and allow an independant enquiry. Allow an investigation which asks what happened? Not as it is, a exercise in trying to back up a theory. It was well said here, in another article about Professor Jones.
<blockquote>According to Professor Jones, all of the laws of science and mathematics point directly to the controlled demolition of the World Trade Center and not to fire bringing down the three towers.
Through his intensive and methodical research, Jones has come to realize that the speed and symmetry of the collapse of the WTC buildings prove that the so-called official story must be false. He points to venting or squibs (smoke puffs) present around the collapsing structures as being direct indicators of the use of pre-positioned explosives. He also noted that the way that NASA infrared satellites and aircraft were able to take photos of the burning wreckage and molten steel for weeks was indicative of a massive use of thermite in the structure.
For Jones, the real problem with the official line on 9/11 is that it relies on wrong-headed science that starts with a conclusion and seeks out evidence that supports that theory to the exclusion of all others in order to cover up what really happened on September 11th. FEMA, the 9/11 Commission, and even the National Institute of Standards and Technology had all started with the supposition that what caused the WTC collapses was the impact of the jets and their exploding fuel and ignored any and all evidence to the contrary even though their findings were
By the way, another thing which just occurred to Rabbit.
Thermite would not be detectable by ordinary bomb detection and bomb sniffing dogs. I think. Depending on what was used as a detonator, of course. Thermite takes a lot to ignite. Still the dets would be very small overall.
Electric Sparklers, are a typical thermite reaction.
Kuya says “Dude! Formidable thread! You guys really are hardcore!”
Major Major says “Not that formidable, Kuya. If you just ignore the flame war between Rabbit and Natalie, the thread boils down to approximately twenty-three posts.”
(I think there are more than 23 posts. But, it doesn’t matter, with those as a given and acknowledging the worthwhile tangent this thread has taken :)
Let us please see this thread to 999, 1000, 1001 and maybe beyond.
It is not so far to go.
Maybe our computers will explode and we will be set free?
Free at last! Free at last! Thank God Almighty, we are free at last!
Just praying so…..
David,
I love your sense of humor and the way your mind works. I don’t think I’m anywhere near your political wave-length, but never-the-less you have a knack for seeing what most don’t even consider. Haven’t been to Canada since my honeymoon some 23 years ago, but I remember it to be an enchanting place. (Victoria, BC, at least.)
Rabbit,
You might be glad to hear that Steven Jones was featured on a cable network here. I have no idea what kind of television you have access to, but it was a show on MSNBC. Tucker Carlson, the Situation.
Tucker is a conservative, he was quite skeptical of Jones but was as usual very polite. Jones wanted them to run the video of WTC7 collapsing, but apparently they didn’t have it prepared, and never did.
This is not grounds for dismissal, certainly, but let the record show that Jones is apparently very much a Democrat. He can’t be lumped in with former Republican appointees and the like. I didn’t learn this on the show, but came across his post at Democraticunderground.com.
I think it likely that he will be severely challenged on this forum, because I think many far left DUers would not see this position as desireable from an electoral standpoint.
It will be interesting to see if he posts anymore there.
“The tilting of the South Tower was also intriguing to many, squibs from the North Tower less so – but I spent most of the time on WTC 7. Also, the letter of Kevin Ryan carried weight evidently, along with protests about the destruction of the steel beams. My slides on Pathological Science were very useful in countering claims of the “official” theory.
That’s it for now.
Oh, you’ll notice in my talk an appeal to the Book of Mormon – which speaks over and over about “secret combinations”, “secret plans”, “secret societies” in the “last days.” This provided a means to overcome the barrier of “conspiracy theory nonsense” with this group. Won’t work for everyone, but this really is something we Mormons believe in and watch for….”
Best Regards,
Steven E. Jones
Jones on DU
Rabbit, I’ve been wanting to tell you this story, but I had to talk to my cousin and get some of the details right:
My grandmother’s cousin, who owned the cinnibar mine and really was an old time hard rock miner, used to mix his nitro by the glacial stream just below the house. He would always say he liked it because he got more bang for the buck. The only joke I ever heard him make. He’d rack his product in a little shack next to the creek, and when finished, hang his little vials on little spings and wrapped in rags in the back of his old Ford truck and drive it on 8mi. of bad rock road up to the mine.
My grandmother, needless to say, didn’t like him doing this so close to the house. When my grandfather installed a diesel generator in the shack it really pissed ‘Uncle’ Jim off, because it would go on automatically and shake the shack like an earthquake. So he built a new one about a hundred yards downstream.
Apparently it wasn’t too windproof though, because one night everyone was awakened by a loud explosion. I wasn’t there at the time, but my cousin says they found the remains of the corrugated steel roof about a quarter mile across the creek and up the mountainside.
One of Uncle Jim’s boys became a geologist and because of his expertise in seismology and his activism in the Society of Friends, was instrumental in creating the Comprehensive Nuclear Test Ban Treaty. Just a point of family pride.
Thanks Natalie,
I am just a simple country boy. I have voted for Green Party candidates in the last few elections. Awaiting the return of the Rhino Party.
Happy to make you laugh. I do see things differently. Must be my bad eye ;)
Just kidding.
I live in British Columbia but on the mainland. Have visited Victoria several times. Glad you enjoyed your visit.
Thankyou Natalie, although Rabbit has no idea what political persuasion Jones has, it does not have any bearing. For a start as anybody will agree, there is bugger all difference between the two parties, at the end of the day. Secondly and most importantly, Natty, a BYU professor is not going to say something as incredibly far reaching as this, if he was not sure, that must be obvious. Thirdly Natalie, as the following article will show, he has plenty of support from other faculty members as well, maybe they are all democrats too?
Please do not insult Rabbit’s intelligence by suggesting that UTAH, is not the heartland of Bush supporters. Rabbit has a Mormon family, deary, and knows all about it.
Rabbit likes the story thankyou. Such things give Rabbit an excited feeling in his heart. Probably in a past life Rabbit used to shoot big cannons. Have had a few glimpses of something occassionally that suggests this is a recurring theme for Rabbit.
Rabbit had an old American book with lots of amazing things in it, and it was pre American Civil war. Among the many weird and wonderful medicinal remiedies, and inks and everything was an excelent chapter on the manufacture of explosives and fireworks.
This was in fact the first literature Rabbit had about such things and he proceeded to experiment. As his rusty Chemistry started to catch up and Rabbit obtained modern books on the subject it began to dawn on Rabbit just how unstable some of the old fireworks mixtures really were. But not before a few interesting and exciting experiences. Some of these are better than the Rocket Powered Billy Cart. I’ll probably set up a Blog soon, and may save the best till then.
The following is from much later when I had become licensed and was using commercial explosives.
Our Apple Orchard, which we’d inherited with the farm, was about 40 years old and we’d finally cleared most of it since the new house orchard, including lots of different apples, was coming into its first fruit. There remained just a couple of trees, a particularly robust and tall Apple tree variety as well. Rabbit got his old Massey Fergussen MF60, tractor and pushed and pulled on the tree, but it, wouldn’t budge. Oh well thought Rabbit with a happy sigh, “I’ll just have to blow it up”.
Rabbit went down the hill, our block was sloping up away from the house at the bottom of the hill. Rabbit set up a nice big charge, and grabbed a bit of fuse and a det, went up the hill and poked the charge into a hole which he dug under the roots a bit. It was a bit bigger than necessary, but the last charge on an apple tree didn’t sever the roots and he had to work a bit too hard to get it out still. Also Rabbit had not made a bang for a while and felt like a good bang.
Rabbit lit the fuse, and retired to a safe distance. Mrs Rabbit was watching out the kitchen window, about three hundred meters down the hill.
BOOM…....................................................^^.......................................
There was lots of smoke and dust, and the tree weighing about half a ton, lifted up like a rocket into the sky and in a big arc started flying, down the hill towards the house. At the apex of its travel it was about a hundred meters in the air. rabbit was running like crazy down the hill, but could do nothing. Mrs Rabbit ran out the back door and the tree finally landed with a thump, about three meters from the house door. It left a fair crater too.
Turns out there was rock not far under the tree at that spot, just a fluke, but it meant the ground didn’t absorb as much of the blast as was normal in that soft soil.
Mrs Rabbit is remarkably tolerant of the old Rabbit sometimes. She was a bit peeved, and asked him to be more careful, which Rabbit ignored as always. She would have a very boring life without the Rabbit though, and in her heart she knows that.
Dave the Rhino Party lokks like Rabbit’s idea of a party.
Have you heard of Yahoo Serious? He is the Aussie guy in “Young Einstein” and a couple of other parodies I can’t remember just now.
He ran as an independant, in Tasmania, back in the eightees, if I recall, and he had but one policy.
A PAIR OF
BLUNDSTONE BOOTS FOR EVERY AUSTRALIAN</b>
As he answered when aksed why,
“They are good boots, and if every Aussie can say he got a good pair of boots out of his government this time round, we would see that as an improvement on past experience.”
I like good boots too.
In the near future we will be having a federal election here in Canada. Currently we have a minority government and a wee bit o’ scandal as well.
Going Green again this time too. They are gaining popularity and may even get a seat this time!
The Rhino Party was a national treasure to be sure.
Natural Law Party is another example of some of the fringe elements. They got my vote once on a lark.
Greens are the third party in Oz politics, since Democrats imploded and dropped off the charts.
Actually the Libs are a coalition with the National Country Party and could not get by without that usually.
Rabbit might start a new party one of these days.
Might call it The Last Party......................^^.................
I used to LOVE Jim Marrs’ UFO stuff, by the way, ljwhit. (And his name!)
I have/had no IDEA what his politics actually are - but I always found his stuff coolly and reasonably, yet rigorously, reasoned… and informative!!
Good stuff it was!! Loved his “Alien Agenda”!
Speaking of fringe….
Here in Cali we have among many anarchist groups, the
Erisian Faction
Here is one of their position papers:
My kind of party. Wooo! Wooo!
“Has Liz seen the interesting paasenger list from the Flight 77?” No - haven’t got a good link - but I do know from memory that all the planes were about half-full… and that many of the people were quite important… ie were “government” people who could be resettled under new names and passports, you know??
” Very high percntage of people who would have had to have known about a lot of what was done to pull off the big day. Surprising number of people who researchers would like to talk to are on that list, if rabbit recalls correctly. ” Yeah - telling me!!
“Trying to locate the xact link you referred to, could you re-post it please.” Lost link - glad you found it again!
Ah! I didn’t know “Nat the Bat” was a Dr Seuss character!
I love Dr Seuss!!
Aw - one of my comments didn’t come out! I tried to post the Jones BYU link!!
Try again!!
http://www.911truth.org/index.php?topic=media
http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2005/11/328670.shtml
It’s always good to WATCH a video clip!!
Liz:
You have brought to my attention another reason why Bill Gates should be tarred and feathered and run out of town on a rail. I can’t get that video to work on Mozilla. Now I have to open IE. Getting creakier and creakier on Macs.
Luminous Beauty ... loved the guns and dope link. Very funny.
Liz ... I love Dr. Seuss too. Childhood favorites. I used to recite from them when I was little and my parents wanted to show off my early reading ability.
I am full of love today ... please do not get me started on Microsoft. hehehe
David Pronunciamiento…..............................
I want to love others and to be loved by others.
I want to be loved by others and to love others.
Perfect blossoms.
I love others and am loved by others.
I am loved by others and love others.
Perfect fruits.
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