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You are off topic..the topic is Israel and the Palestinian problem…why are you trying to obfuscate the issue..don’t you have anything else to offer??
One of the leading Zionists here in the Bush Administration is up on 5 criminal charges…of lying and obstruction of Justice….don’t you think that alone, is topic enough??..After all, he is one of the leading signatures of that Contract for America,and chief of staff of the Vice President of America. That same blueprint for war, the Zionists have been flogging every administration since Daddy Bush..It took ‘STUPID’ to finally put it into fruition, at the cost of hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi lives, over 2000 American lives, and 47,000 seriously maimed, untold property damage, and the depletion of the US treasury..
and all for Israel!
Now I think that issue is more important than your vocabulary displays..You’re not impressive and only makes you look asinine, in light of the seriousness of the topic!
TATA
Posted by Edithann on Oct 29, 2005 at 4:46 PM
Edithann:
Turdbooger doesn’t look any less asinine when he’s on topic. Is his ad hominem about a ‘PUBLIC institution’ referring to UC Berkeley? How asinine can one get?
Posted by luminous beauty on Oct 29, 2005 at 6:30 PM
TB, as israel is the client state of the present murdurous regime in the US, not my country canada, it would be more accurate to describe you and your compatriots as gormandizing on baby flesh, given the obscene nos. of deaths, particularly of babies and children, suffered by the iraqi citizenry and the palestinian diaspora huddled in refugee camps, imprisoned in their own land. your venomous de haut en bas pullulates [breeds] lethiferous levels of hatred that ripple ever-outward from your vortex and maculate every ubiety the ripples touch. we and our progenitors have all suffered from the hate-mongering obloquy of others. my husband’s grandparents were slaughtered by the turks in talas. all my grandfather’s lands outside prague, bohemia [now the czech rep] were confiscated by the catholics and his herds slaughtered, but what remained of the 2 families came to canada and started again, w/out inciting a mordant [caustic] diathesis w/ which to poison the hearts of subsequent generations. vindictive ambits are self-abnegating. shoving the past and all its iniquities behind you and your fellow zionists is long overdue.
Posted by tyrrhen on Oct 30, 2005 at 1:34 AM
tyrrhen,
I thought I recognized your accent as Canadian, eh.
Posted by David in Canada on Oct 30, 2005 at 9:34 AM
Look at the history of United States foreign policy.
The war in Iraq is not a war for Israel. It is a war to secure key natural resources. The neo-conservitives in America are NOT zionists. They are CAPITALISTS. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure that one out. Bush is an oil barron, not a jewish zionist. Why not cut off relations to the Sauds? That is not to say he is not racist, however, I don’t think he holds hatred for muslims alone.
Look at the history of Israeli foreign policy. Its relations with Palestine and the surrounding arab nations have been PREDOMINANTLY defensive in nature. I do believe Israel has always had a right to exist.
I hold no hatred for any people. Merely what unnerves me is heinous acts committed under the guise of a political ideologue. Clearly you believe I am entrenched in a purely dogmatic love for Israel and zionism. However, it is clear to me that you are entrenched in a dogmatic belief of your own. Tieing the Bush administration to Zionism is completely ludicrous.
Most of my family lives in Winnipeg ;) However, I am currently at Uni in California… ;)
From my understanding UC Berkley is a publicly funded institution. From my understanding teachers are strongly encouraged not to teach dogmatic ideology. Academic freedom refers to the right to publish facts and teach objectively not the right to teach ideology and hearsay. Public instutions are there to provide people with objective information so they can reach their own conclusions. It’s called ‘critical thinking’, sadly not everyone is ‘college material’. Private institutions like Harvard are not held to these moral standards. The article fails to mention this in its discussion of attempts to keep the book from being published.
Posted by turdburgler on Oct 30, 2005 at 1:32 PM
tb
#1—you present a U.S. war of aggression to secure resources and establish regional force projection In the Mid East as mutually exclusive to America’s rabid support for Israel and certain zionist ideals, whereas these are quite intimately related.
The World Zionist Organization recommended a radical restructuring of the Mid East through violence, and their program dovetails with uncanny comfort with Mid East plans outlined by Jewish-American Nazis, including those composed by Jewish neocon zealots and described in a variety of documents, the Program for a New American Century, among others.
It seems preposterous to claim that many of America’s neocons had no zionist sympathies when they were paid members of a variety of zionist think ttanks and/or acted as direct advisors, laisons, etc to the israeli government or were directly attached to israel’s propaganda machine.
As to Mr. Bush and the most influential element in his power base..both are evangelical Christian psychopaths who have their own obsessive agenda involving the return of Jews to the so-called Holy Land in preparation for the Second Coming. It is no secret these fundamenatlist Christian lunatics, despite their anti-Semitism, have been embraced as important allies by israel.
#2 I suppose one COULD claim that most of israel’s actions have been “defensive.” They’ve “defended” their vicious ethnic cleansings, rapes, terror campaigns and massacres of 1947-48. They have “defended” the illegal expropriation of land and water from the indigenous population. They have “defended” their illegal apartheid wall as a “defensive” gesture, though it is a VERY thinly disguised land grab and effort to establish expansionist borders. They continue to “defend” their reprehensible human rights record, outlined in great detail in Norman Finkelstein’s latest book.
This brings me to my question for YOU.
WHY are you commenting on the nature of, and condemning the publication of A BOOK YOU HAVE PLAINLY NEVER OPENED?
Posted by israelisarefilth on Oct 30, 2005 at 2:26 PM
Mr. Turd..
I hate to burst your bubble with some other critical thinking, but, Israel has been the aggressor since they invaded Palestine in the late 18th to early 20th Cent…...
And the Neocons are all Zionist dual Loyalists masquerading as Americans..all working for Israelis best interests, or so they thought…..
It was the Contract for the New American Century, written by Netanyahoooo himself and signed by nearly all the neocons (Jews) in the present administration which is he blueprint of what we are living through at this moment in time…I’m sure you might not be aware that Irving Lewis (Scooter) Libby is the first to get his ass in the sling..with more to follow, if all goes well…....I don’t know where you get your information..but I’m sure it’s from the same Zionist propaganda file issued by Israel, and handed out to all the Diaspora faithful….
It’s not rocket science, that the contract was more than appealing to the baser instincts of greed which seems to permeate the Bush crime family and, simultaneously dove taied with the never ending aspirations of Israel for perpetual war in the Middle East..It was a perfect storm for the fantasy of an Israeli emergence as Power Broker of the Middle East with the US as their ‘Bully Boy” !
And as Hubris would have it…Israel and the US are now being eaten alive…....
The only consolation for this American is, that as we go down..ISRAEL and their Diaspora supporters will go down also…
I don’t think you have benefited by the extraordinary opportunity you have at the UC at Berkley…because your critical thinking certainly leaves much to be desired..
.You are out to lunch on all your facts..I suggest you give up that ‘free’ seat you have at UC and give it to some worthy student…one who has the capacity to be able to think for himself..and is not already brainwashed with Israeli claptrap!.
.
Posted by Edithann on Oct 30, 2005 at 2:29 PM
Were the ‘Jewish Zionist Nazis’ involved in the attempted coup of Hugo Chavez in Venezuela aswell?
Posted by turdburgler on Oct 30, 2005 at 2:57 PM
Since when is the UC system free?
http://registrar.berkeley.edu/Registration/feesched.html
Posted by turdburgler on Oct 30, 2005 at 3:00 PM
Compared to Harvard, it might as well be free..It’s a state school and so doesn’t compare to Harvard..but then that’s where your buddy Dershowitz teaches..the seat he bought at he Law school…I bet it was endowed by an Israeli Firster..like himself!. so he would have a pulpit for his pro-Israeli tirades…...and anyway, what are you doing here??..What’s the matter with Canadian Higher Education??..Especially that you don’t like us..or do you find more kindred Israeli spirits here and especially in the CA area..Or maybe you’re one of those art students roaming around the states..and not at UC at all???????????????...
There isn’t a University in the US that is free from the ADL which automatically stifles any kind of free speech..They seem to have their own secret police monitoring the professors for fear they might say something about the ongoing Israeli barbarism.
Oh, are my remarks anti-Semitic???
Posted by Edithann on Oct 30, 2005 at 3:20 PM
Were the
Posted by turdburgler on Oct 30, 2005 at 3:29 PM
By throwing in Chevez makes you very transparent…
You are deliberately trying to obfuscate the topic..the topic is Finkelstein and Dershowitz..Do you have a problem with discussing the topic or is your UC memory faltering.??..Or probably more to the point, it’s just another Israeli two step, to obscure the myriad of lies put out by Israel for the past 60 years, and sworn to by Dershowitz.
Finkelstein cleaned his clock in 317 pages and shot down all your claims to victimhood by the Arabs…All researched and impeccably documented ..
I would suggest you read the book and then start your classes. That is, if you are mature to accept the truth..And if you really are at UC!
TATA
Posted by Edithann on Oct 30, 2005 at 3:38 PM
You can repeat it until the ‘cows come home’!...
Does it have anything to do with the topic at hand??
And if it’s so important to you..let us know why?
TATA
Posted by Edithann on Oct 30, 2005 at 3:50 PM
My point was that the US has no ‘zionistic’ goals in its foreign policy. The US is involved in Iraq for the sole purpose of securing natural resources.
Please add this to your ever expanding vocabulary.
CORPORATOCRACY
YOU CAN NOT DROP OUT OF YOUR CLIENT STATE FREE MARKET SYSTEM.
Posted by turdburgler on Oct 30, 2005 at 4:01 PM
You are out in space if you think it’s only corporatocracy..it’s that and Israel..what, can’t you accept that it’s for Israel also??..
Give me a break..of course it’s for oil..after all, with Iraq oil, there would be Oil for Israel and that dreamed of pipeline..
US alone has no Zionist interest per se, but just try and get anything that doesn’t include a big slice for Israel..it just would never happen…we are joined by the neck with Israel..and it’s all due to the Fuken Zionists and the clout they’ve had on our government since ‘48..So you can forget any other rhetoric..it doesn’t float..it’s been for Israel..the war, and the oil…So how come Russia was so smart?? They got rid of the Oligarchy Israeli sponsored crooks and now we will also…soon I hope!
You still haven’t mentioned Finkelstein and Dershowitz..
I guess you are an Israeli shill after all…..
TATA…
Posted by Edithann on Oct 30, 2005 at 4:29 PM
Derschowitz is from Harvard
Finkelstein’s book was published by the UC press.
You have brained your damage.
Posted by turdburgler on Oct 30, 2005 at 4:33 PM
TB, contrary to your pronouncement, i suspect most harvard undergrads are in fact nullifidians, like my son, who is in 2nd year there… whether they check the identity box that labels them protestant, catholic, ba’hai, jew, muslim, pantheist, animist, shinto, buddhist, sycorax-votary, hindu, zoroastrian, agnostic, or a poseidon-acolyte…..
Posted by tyrrhen on Oct 30, 2005 at 4:52 PM
as you so argutely detected, david, yes, a canadian… but living in egypt.
Posted by tyrrhen on Oct 30, 2005 at 4:57 PM
My point was not that Harvard students were religious in any way, but rather that the ivy league schools if controlled by any conspirators would be controlled by white anglo saxon protestants rather than jews. I don’t believe the post I was responding to was inferring a religious orientation to the Jews in control of Harvard. It had more of a political connotation to it don’t you think?
Posted by turdburgler on Oct 30, 2005 at 5:08 PM
It’s still and irrelevant point..religious or political…it’s still not on topic..and it’s still an avoidance of the topic..
You are out of touch with reality if you think there is a difference between public and private Universities..your ADL is an equal opportunity Anti-Semitic brigade..always looking for something that would put Israel in a bad light..and might put the Arab issue open to debate. There is nothing worse than anyone questioning the validity of Israel and it’s right to exist…Israel has no right to exist and that is exactly the point!
Me thinks you are circle jerking and looking to obscure the fact that Finkelstein is telling the truth..and is diametrically opposed to your facts..in fact..you have no facts!
What you are doing is exactly the usual Israeli agenda of avoidance of debate of any relevant and factual issues..
So if you have nothing further to add to the conversation..I suggest you hang it up….
TATA
Posted by Edithann on Oct 30, 2005 at 5:26 PM
Private Institutions of any kind are not heald to the same standards of Public institutions. Name a publicly funded Catholic School. It is expected that information be provided to students in a objective manor. I am asserting that neither of these books is entirely objective. Being that Harvard is a private institution it doesn’t really matter there.
Israel has as much right to exist as any other modern nation.
Israel has been the victim not the victimizer in the majority of cases. This point has as of yet not been refuted with the acception of israelisarefilth’s laughable reply which consisted entirely of hearsay. Here’s some more hearsay: I worked for amnesty international this past year. Their methods for political change involve the manipulation of statistics. I know that to be a fact, however, you will only know it as hearsay. Here’s a fact that you can verify. The latest California Peace Action/Amnesty International ads deplore US arms trade to the congolese. It has a picture of a child holding a gun. The gun is a russian AK-47. Haha. Political organizations tend to be biased.
Can you name one nation other than Israel that has returned the spoils of war after a victory?
Posted by turdburgler on Oct 30, 2005 at 6:24 PM
Israel has no right to exist on another’s land..period..there is no other argument..
You are doing the AIPAC shuffle..and I refuse to play your stupid game..I don’t believe anything you say…on Amnesty Int’l..or anything else..Israel is the aggressor, always has been and always will be until we cut off all US monies…
You can stick you pseudo argument up your ‘you know what’!
Finkelstein is right, you all do the same thing..anything to change the subject…so how many Palestinians have you killed in your IDF days??..Are you on some sort of Katsas mission here?...
It all has to do with BY WAY OF DECEPTION we shall try and snow the world with our propaganda….and it’s not working..I don’t believe you are a student at UC and especially with any amnesty Int’l….you are just a fuken Israeli shill…
Oh, giving up the spoils of war?...You bastards haven’t given up a thing!..You are still stealing more and even building mini concentration camps. Disgusting vile trash!
So get lost!.
Posted by Edithann on Oct 30, 2005 at 6:41 PM
I’ve never been to Israel. The only time I left the states was for a bar mitzvah in Winnepeg when I was 14. I went to Puerto Rico once too, but I’m not sure that counts.
You argue only by personal attacks. You keep changing the subject.
Finkelstein sounds like a psuedonym to me.
Find yourself!
Posted by turdburgler on Oct 30, 2005 at 7:06 PM
what’s a katsas?
Posted by turdburgler on Oct 30, 2005 at 7:07 PM
Look it up in your mossad dictionary…
TATA
Posted by Edithann on Oct 30, 2005 at 7:09 PM
what’s mossad?
Posted by turdburgler on Oct 30, 2005 at 7:12 PM
Well if Finkelstein sounds like a psuedonym to you..then it proves you know nothing at all about the subject?...
Ao why are you wasting everyone’s time?..Are you trying to impress anyone with yout vocabulary, which by the way, needs work…
I guess I was right after all, you aren’t a student at UC, in fact I bet you aren’t even an adult!
TATA
Posted by Edithann on Oct 30, 2005 at 7:12 PM
I was mocking you.
Posted by turdburgler on Oct 30, 2005 at 7:18 PM
YOu!!!
Is this board your new assignment?
TATA
Posted by Edithann on Oct 30, 2005 at 7:22 PM
“We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population.” David Ben-Gurion, May 1948.
ISRAELI’S MUST ASSIMILATE FOR WORLD PEACE!
Posted by Edithann on Oct 30, 2005 at 7:24 PM
That’s not a real quote.
Posted by turdburgler on Oct 30, 2005 at 7:51 PM
Now, why am I not surprised you would say that?...
I bet the Protocols aren’t a real blueprint either?...
I also bet the forgeries of the Niger nuclear material weren’t a mossad plant either?..
For someone who doesn’t know Finkelstein, his real name, or anything about the book; what gives you the authority to even make any statement as to the truth of anything???.....
Why would anyone take anything you say as anything but garbage??
you can’t discuss he topic..and you refute direct quotes…
What the hell are you doing here anyway???
Get lost! you have no credibility….
TATA
Posted by Edithann on Oct 30, 2005 at 8:04 PM
“Peace for us means the destruction of Israel. We are preparing for an all-out war, a war which will last for generations.”—Arafat, El Mundo, Caracas, Venezuela, Feb. 11, 1980
That one is though.
Posted by turdburgler on Oct 30, 2005 at 8:08 PM
What’s Finkelstein’s real name? <-another joke
Anyone can do what I did and google that quote.
Posted by turdburgler on Oct 30, 2005 at 8:18 PM
More lies..just as Finkelstein states..It’s all been a colossal lie from the moment the UN declared and Israel at the expense of the Palestinians to the present…
I bet you are going to tell me there never where any Palestinians and there was never a Palestine…that’s the Golda Golden Quotes..now I bet you will say that’s authentic….Too funny, just too funny!!!
As for Arafat, he already declared his acceptance of Israel years ago..only you all want the whole enchilada..way beyond the ‘UN ‘48 boundaries….
It’s Israel who is to blame for everything..all the killings..all the suicide bombings, all the demolishing of homes, the poisoning of wells the destruction of farm land, olive groves, killing of livestock, the destruction and slow genocide of the Palestinian people…all of it…
It’s because Israeli’s can’t live without war and an outside enemy, or they would turn inward and ask questions about a religion that preaches hate of ‘others’..and is full of lies…just as Norman Finkelstein states in his book ‘BEYOND CHUTZPAH’...and you have the chutzpah to keep on with your nonsense!
TATA
Posted by Edithann on Oct 30, 2005 at 8:25 PM
Israel’s Further Theft of Palestinian lands
http://www.imemc.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=14707&Itemid=1
16:12 Israel resumes plans to divide the West Bank into three isolated cantons
Saed Banoura - IMEMC & Agencies - Sunday, 30 October 2005
Israeli Authorities are carrying a plan which aims to divide the West Bank into three isolated parts, with roadblocks, settlement constructions and the separation Wall dividing them.
Israeli newspaper Haaretz reported on Sunday that Israel started to construct a huge roadblock near Tappoah settlement, south of Nablus, to separate the northern West Bank from the central areas.
An Israeli military source told Haaretz that the army decided nine months ago, to construct this roadblock, which includes ten routes, eight leading to the south and two to the north of the West Bank.
One of the routes will be used for ambulances and urgent cases, while another route will be used to enable easy passage for West Bank settlers.
Nablus governor, Mohammad Al Aloul, said that this plan aims to separate Nablus district from Jenin and the rest of the districts in the West Bank.
Al Aloul expressed deep concerns that Israel might consider these roadblocks and routes as international border crossings as it is currently considering Qalandia checkpoint, south of Ramallah as a border crossing in spite that it is far from Jerusalem and the Green Line with Israel.
An Israeli political diplomat reported that the installing the huge roadblock south of Nablus is one phase of Israeli policy of limiting the freedom for movement of the Palestinians by creating three huge isolated cantons in the West Bank; the other phases are resembled by controlling main roads in the West Bank and expanding Israeli settlements.
Currently, the Qalandia checkpoint is considered a main roadblock which separates the center of the West Bank from the south.
Israeli constructed Modi
Posted by Edithann on Oct 30, 2005 at 8:42 PM
I hope that quote wasn’t in this book. That would truly be pathetic.
Posted by turdburgler on Oct 30, 2005 at 11:32 PM
“[Israelis]they would turn inward and ask questions about a religion that preaches hate of
Posted by turdburgler on Oct 31, 2005 at 2:25 AM
edithann, your tireless, herculean protreptics, in a heroic effort to elucubrate this TB hebetude, are noble beyond compare. the augean stable that TB’s thought processes represent, is far too feculent and impetiginous for me to persist in further decontaminating attempts. my brain is benumbed by all the contusions sustained from bashing my skull against the concrete cortices of TB’s. but i applaud your energy, moral compass, and perseverence throughout these polemics; they are laudable. i cling to the hope that somehow our collective exertions will segue into a transformation of the US/israeli-created maelstrom the palestinians are drowning in, at least long enough for the palestinians to emerge for an invigorating breath of fresh air and a reassertion of their right to freely breathe the air that wafts across their own land.
Posted by tyrrhen on Oct 31, 2005 at 4:00 AM
I hereby declare that you have no right to exist…
Your arguments have been purely hearsay and ad hominem. Truely a pathetic display.
Posted by turdburgler on Oct 31, 2005 at 4:24 AM
Arafat never said that..that piece of Propaganda was for your own consumption..to keep all the lobotomized brain dead Israeli’s still acting like Nazis..
As for that Nobel Prize…Begin got one too, and we all know what a terrorist he was…It’s all a bought prize anyway..they give them our like candy..to anyone with the money, that’s why Jews get so many…....
You are Zionist scum..and as I said…get lost!
TATA
Posted by Edithann on Oct 31, 2005 at 4:54 AM
As for turning inward..It would be your own Talmud stupid..that’s the one that’s filled with ‘HATE’ for all ‘OTHERS’! As another one of yours so stated:..
In Jewish History, Jewish Religion,..Israel Shahak!...
Is it your education that makes you ignorant..or too much time with your nose in a book, banging your head on a wall?
Oh, spare me your vocabulary..it was amusing at first but has worn thin..you Nazis are a ‘one trick poney’!
TATA
Posted by Edithann on Oct 31, 2005 at 5:12 AM
As is your usual ‘schtick’..you took what I said out of context..therefore you have lost any modicum of credibility you might have had…
ISRAEL HAS NO RIGHT TO EXIST ON ANOTHER’S LAND..
ISRAEL HAS NO RIGHT TO EXIST ON PALESTINIAN LAND..
NOT NOW, NOT BEFORE, AND NOT IN THE FUTURE!
tata
Posted by Edithann on Oct 31, 2005 at 5:15 AM
Just in case you were to young to remember what the Israeli Nazis are capable of…...TATA
Militia boasts of role in Sabra massacre
By Inigo Gilmore in Beirut
10/30/05 “The Observer”——It was one of the most shocking massacres to scar the Middle East, the slaying of more than 2,000 Palestinians by Christian militiamen in the wretched Lebanese refugee camps.
Now a film has returned to the story of Sabra and Shatila. But for the first time it has told the story of the slaughter through the voices of the killers. In Massaker, six former Christian Phalange militiamen tell of their training by Israeli allies and recount the events of 16-18 September, 1982, when hundreds of Palestinian men, women and children were killed in the Beirut camps.
Although the identities of the men are disguised in the 90-minute documentary, they make no attempt to hide the gruesome details of the massacre, with some boasting about their killing skills with AK-47 assault rifles and butchers’ knives.
Several parts of the film assault the viewers’ senses, including one where a man describes how another militiaman, a butcher, took pleasure in carving up his victims. Another recalls how even the wails of old Palestinian women ‘left them cold’ as they systematically moved into the camps, tossed grenades into houses and sprayed rooms with gunfire, killing at close range.
The film is ground-breaking because it is the first time that members of the various militias involved in the 1975-90 civil war have spoken at length on film about what happened, particularly in such candid detail. It has been shown at festivals in 15 countries, and in France and Greece Massaker will go out on general release.
The directors say that they deliberately made a ‘politically incorrect’ choice in portraying the massacre from the perspective of the perpetrators. The characters are unpalatable and the directors hope not only to confront their audiences about the violence generally, but to tackle the Lebanese head-on about their past deeds.
One of the directors, Lokman Slim, says he hopes it can bring people together - if not to ‘reconcile’ them, then to educate them about chapters of their common history.
‘Personally I don’t think there are victims and perpetrators [in this conflict],’ said Slim at his office in south Beirut, a stronghold of the radical Hizbollah movement.
‘I think each perpetrator was a victim, because he was amputated from a part of his humanity, and this amputation makes him a killer ... If someone is at the same time a perpetrator and a victim, is he somehow less responsible for what he did? No. As long as we are not recognising what we did towards each other, we will never reach a point of real reconciliation.’
Only one of the six men interviewed shows any sign of remorse.
Some Lebanese have raised questions about the merits of the film, with one critic, writing in Beirut’s Daily Star newspaper, accusing the filmmakers of providing the killers with a platform from which ‘they make excuses for themselves and boast’.
The men interviewed in the film were loyal to Lebanon’s then new President, Bashir Gemayel, who was assassinated on 14 September, 1982, in an explosion at the Phalangist headquarters in east Beirut, a killing which has never been solved. A day later the Israeli army moved into west Beirut in violation of existing agreements.
continued:
Posted by Edithann on Oct 31, 2005 at 6:03 AM
continued from previous page::
Israel’s Defence Minister at the time, Ariel Sharon, authorised the entry of members of Gemayel’s Lebanese Forces (a Phalangist militia) and Saad Haddad’s South Lebanon Army into the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps, home to 30,000 Palestinians whose refugee families had moved to Lebanon in successive waves since 1948.
The camps had been sealed off by Israeli tanks. When the militiamen, who were worked into a frenzy after being told that the Palestinians were responsible for Gemayel’s killing, entered on the evening of 16 September, the only resistance they encountered was from a few lightly armed young men.
For the next 38 hours, the militiamen raped, tortured, mutilated and massacred civilians. The exact number killed is still not known. On 22 September the International Red Cross gave a figure of 2,400, but Palestinians claim more died.
One of the most controversial revelations in the film is the alleged extent of Israeli involvement in the preparation and execution of the operation, down to providing body bags before the killings began. ‘You’ll be needing these,’ one of the militiamen is told by an Israeli officer.
Posted by Edithann on Oct 31, 2005 at 6:04 AM
The single document probably most influential in directing George W. Bush
Posted by israelisarefilth on Oct 31, 2005 at 11:27 AM
I think this thread has been changed and is now out of Israel…I might be wrong..but I don’t think so…
If you notice..our little Turdblossom is absent today..and the same old argument is getting boring…
I was glad to see at least one damn neocon indicted..now for the other 99 and we might have it under control…
Will they have to turn in ‘ALL’ their passports at their hearings, to keep them from fleeing to Israel??
..
Posted by Edithann on Oct 31, 2005 at 1:45 PM
I’m not a neo-con.
Stop spewing your propaganda.
prop
Posted by turdburgler on Oct 31, 2005 at 5:09 PM
Hey Mr. Turd…
Israel has no right to exist..there was never an israel and there is no need for one now..So pack your bags..and hit the road…get a boat and drop anchor at the first port that will accept you…
TATA
Posted by Edithann on Oct 31, 2005 at 5:36 PM
Finkelsteins biggest supporter and advocate:
http://www.davidduke.com
That’s right. DAVID DUKE.
I made this propoganda myself. It only seemed apporpriate.
[IMG]http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a118/turdburgler/eichmanvsfinkelstein.jpg[/IMG]
Posted by turdburgler on Oct 31, 2005 at 8:55 PM
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a118/turdburgler/eichmanvsfinkelstein.jpg
Posted by turdburgler on Oct 31, 2005 at 8:56 PM
You’re useless!
Posted by Edithann on Oct 31, 2005 at 9:09 PM
you don’t even know who David Duke is….
You must be terrified of Norman Finkelstein,,,are you that terrified of Chomsky, Sy Hersh, Avi Shlame, and the Jews against Zionism?? YOu must be terrified of everyone who doesn’t think like you….so sad..really so sad…
TATA
Posted by Edithann on Oct 31, 2005 at 9:12 PM
You’re right. I’ve never met David Duke. I doubt you have either though.
Posted by turdburgler on Oct 31, 2005 at 9:17 PM
51 Documents: Zionist Collaboration With the Nazis
Article/book #1179: 51 Documents: Zionist Collaboration With the Nazis
By: Lenni Brenner
Date of issue: November 2002
Abstract: From the book description: The Nazi era is the most discussed period in history, yet most Jews and other Americans are unaware of the interaction between Zionism and Hitler and Mussolini. The reason is simple and stark: the Zionist record is dishonorable. This book brings to light, through the use of actual historic documents, the disservice that the Zionists did to Jews before and during the Holocaust. Some of these documents were published in English decades ago, but are only now seeing the light of day. Others are being translated into English for the first time. Included are documents from Propaganda Minister Goebbels’ newspaper, Der Angriff, detailing an SS-man’s visit to Palestine as the Zionists’ guest. Readers will also learn about Adolf Eichmann’s account of his personal dealings with the Hungarian Zionist Rezs
Posted by Edithann on Oct 31, 2005 at 9:17 PM
I believe it was Finkelstein who started the name calling…
Posted by turdburgler on Oct 31, 2005 at 9:18 PM
On Anti-Semitism
By Gilad Atzmon
10-20-4
Posted by Edithann on Oct 31, 2005 at 9:20 PM
It appears that Edithann is an agent of the Israeli machine. Her hate-filled anti-Zionist and anti-Israeli posts make many readers became strong supporters of Israel. So, I hope she continues with her vile diatribes, especially those against Jews and their religion… also a few fabricated quotes can be helpful…
Posted by Ariram on Oct 31, 2005 at 11:55 PM
The icing on the cake:
“you don
Posted by turdburgler on Nov 1, 2005 at 2:20 AM
Oh Ariram..Is that a call for help??
foo funny, just too funny…
Yes, you will be attacked with everything I can find to show the world your evil message..be it in your religion or in your politics..they seem to be the same anyway…
So bring it on….and lets see who has the facts!
TATA
Posted by Edithann on Nov 1, 2005 at 6:40 AM
Ooooh! Ooooh! It’s Assram with a wicked judo move on Edithann….but….wait….Edithann isn’t there….and Assram falls heavily on his assram. Turdbooger….waiting in his corner for his chance to kick Edithann while she’s down….kicks Assram right in the neck. Ooooh! It’s getting wild in the ring folks….the crowd is rolling in the aisles!
Gift Of Insults
There once lived a great warrior. Though quite old, he still was able to defeat any challenger. His reputation extended far and wide throughout the land and many students gathered to study under him.
One day an infamous young warrior arrived at the village. He was determined to be the first man to defeat the great master. Along with his strength, he had an uncanny ability to spot and exploit any weakness in an opponent. He would wait for his opponent to make the first move, thus revealing a weakness, and then would strike with merciless force and lightning speed. No one had ever lasted with him in a match beyond the first move.
Much against the advice of his concerned students, the old master gladly accepted the young warrior’s challenge. As the two squared off for battle, the young warrior began to hurl insults at the old master. He threw dirt and spit in his face. For hours he verbally assaulted him with every curse and insult known to mankind. But the old warrior merely stood there motionless and calm. Finally, the young warrior exhausted himself. Knowing he was defeated, he left feeling shamed.
Somewhat disappointed that he did not fight the insolent youth, the students gathered around the old master and questioned him. “How could you endure such an indignity? How did you drive him away?”
“If someone comes to give you a gift and you do not receive it,” the master replied, “to whom does the gift belong?”
In other news:
Civilization began the first time an angry person cast a word instead of a rock.
Sigmund Freud
My conclusion is: the Internet has a civilizing influence on even braindead troglodytes. (don’t let me get in the way, people. The entertainment value is just too good)
Posted by luminous beauty on Nov 1, 2005 at 6:42 AM
Oh, what was that Ariram…a call for help with a ‘few fabricated quotes”???..I know you are asking for help..but help with ‘lies’...Is that how you manage to do it??? With ‘FABRICATED QUOTES’?? Now that is really scraping the bottom of the barrel….you are a sad specimen of a human being….needing to defend your posItion with ‘FABRICATED QUOTES!!!
Too funny, just too funny….
TATA
Posted by Edithann on Nov 1, 2005 at 6:47 AM
luminous beauty: are you mocking edithann and his cronies or did you get hit in the head with a blunt object this morning?
Edithann: Ariram was referring to the Ben-Gurion quote you made which is not real. Haha. Check your sources… try www.google.com
I don’t believe Ariram used any fabricated quotes… There is an Arafat quote you questioned that I posted. However, there is no proof its false anywhere that I can find.
again Edithann’s website:
www.davidduke.com
Posted by turdburgler on Nov 1, 2005 at 1:25 PM
bravo, edithann; your bravery inspires the more timorous to bend courage in servitude to others, which according to sebastien junger, is the craton of heroism. and luminous beauty, your identity is condign…you are a source of luculence; the apodictic [true] definition of beauty is luminosity.
Posted by tyrrhen on Nov 1, 2005 at 1:52 PM
Thank you Tyrrhen for the compliment, and I’m sure it would be even more fun to read, if the topic wasn’t so serious…..
You must add more..and I certainly don’t mean by ‘fabricating” anything….Wasn’t that just too much??..
.
Oh, and I also appreciate your ‘Lewis Carroll’ use of language.
TA
Posted by Edithann on Nov 1, 2005 at 3:14 PM
Luminous Beauty who is so Gloriously Bright,
Thanks for the great story : Gift Of Insults . Will be saving that one to the hard drive.
Edithann,
You are a hero. Keep up the good work here.The Turdbungler is just stuck to your shoe. But don’t worry, shit washes off.
Tyrrhen,
Thanks for the vocabulary lessons.
Posted by David in Canada on Nov 1, 2005 at 5:30 PM
Glad you guys are enjoying the fracas..
Can anyone imagine putting a name like ‘Turd’ out there to argue a case for Israel, or a case for anyone??...
Does anyone think it might be a Freudian slip??
Too funy, just too, too damn funny..
TA.
Posted by Edithann on Nov 1, 2005 at 6:12 PM
turd - A lump of excriment.
burglar - a person who attempts to enter a premises with the intent of committing a crime
You have suffered severe brain damage if you cant see the meaning of my handle. No one is born that dumb.
It’s mocking YOU. I didn’t ‘steal’ shit.
Send some money to David Duke’s campaign. He is the only politician I know of supporting this filth.
BTW Freud went out of style a long time ago.
Posted by turdburgler on Nov 1, 2005 at 7:38 PM
You steal shit?
You are a shit stealer?
You are the filthy one. You mock yourself.
Posted by David in Canada on Nov 1, 2005 at 9:32 PM
Israeli state terrorism….Isn’t this a war crime?? TA
Israeli clampdown amid rise in ‘sonic bombs’
Chris McGreal in Erez
Tuesday November 1, 2005
The Guardian
The Israeli defence ministry has barred foreign journalists from entering the Gaza Strip in an apparent attempt to limit reporting on the killing of Palestinian civilians, the firing of artillery shells and the use of “sonic bombs” to terrify the local population.
Over the weekend, Israeli air force jets caused two dozen sonic booms, many at night, which human rights groups have described as “terrifying collective punishment”.
The crossing post at Erez was closed after a suicide bomb last Wednesday in Hadera killed five Israelis. It was reopened yesterday to Palestinians with permits.
Posted by Edithann on Nov 2, 2005 at 12:42 PM
It is time to deal with Izraeli’s Lobby!
Lies of the White House gang about the Iraq were always transparent. But the biggest, and so far whispered only factor in this Iraqi/terrorism mess is virtual control of American Legislature, foreign policy and mass media by the Israeli partisans. Power of the Lobby shuts down any debate about the main (and stated by terrorists) cause of 9/11, which is occupation of the West Bank with US money and arms. 9/11 was in turn grabbed by the Lobby as an opportunity to destroy the most dangerous enemy of Israel - Saddam’s Iraq, as advocated by the familiar characters for years before 9/11. It is not a coincidence that the most vicious Iraq - bashers were Jewish: from Wolfowitz, Feith, Perle, Libby, and Abrams to Adelman, Brooks, Krauthammer, Safire, Judith Miller and Kristol, to name just a few of the countless activists. This fifth column must be exposed to prevent further damage to our treasure and life. Manipulation of intelligence and public opinion that went into this enterprise is nothing short of treason of historical proportions. And the Lobby was a crucial factor in ramming the war through. There were other powerful interests involved - emporium-builders/oil securing corporate types, crusaders and political opportunists like brains of our shrub. For the mass media overwhelmingly owned and staffed by the Lobby (vide NYT) a nice bonus was economic value of the reality show entitled The War. To paraphrase: Never in the history of the mankind, so many across the world did not suffer so much for so few (fanatic settlers) to gain so little (land and water of the West Bank). Sure, there will be still plenty to deal with, but you cannot start making any progress without decisively addressing that glaring injustice.
Posted by transatlantyk on Nov 3, 2005 at 7:55 AM
To supplement my earlier comment. The order of real drivers on Iraq war will always be debatable. But I would stick to my opinion that efforts of pro-Israeli activists on many fronts were the primary one. We should be hearing more of it if it is true that Fitzgerald is looking into Benjamin Franklin (accused Israeli spy) connection with Niger forgeries (www.dailykos.com/story/2005/10/19/145557/54).
Unfortunatelly, any discussion of the assertion that mass media are predominately owned and staffed by Jews immediately invokes accusations of anti-Semitism (just wait!). The problem is that this is a factual statement. It is a pity that only fringe groups (www.stormfront.org) dare to document it (or, conversely, anybody who tries, gets marginalized). Recommend a book by former congressman Paul Findley
Posted by transatlantyk on Nov 3, 2005 at 8:04 AM
Transatlantyk: excellent post ...
And we didn’t need a dictionary to decipher it…it was concise and exactly on point!
The hard part now is to pick up the pieces..put America back together better than it was, without catering to special interest goups, take back the media and, straighten out Israel once and for all.
Israel cannot be allowed to run roughshod over the world fermenting hatred and problems. It must not be allowed expansion and access to neighboring natural resources and the annnihilation of the Palestinians…....
They will just have to be content with the land given them by the UN..sans water and oil..and allow the Palestinians to live in peace…After all, the Palestinians have already accepted them..so aside from the rapacious greed of Israel for more of their land and resources..there is no need for continued support of anything ISRAELI!
tata
Posted by Edithann on Nov 3, 2005 at 8:24 AM
Trans..I’m sure you didn’t mean Benjamin Franklin as a possible Israeli spy?...One must be very careful of what one says..Things are always taken out of context to make their own points…I’m sure your aware of it..it’s their game!
TATA
Posted by Edithann on Nov 3, 2005 at 8:40 AM
I second and third all who call for a total withdrawl of U. S. support of Isreal. Those who steal the land of other, rightful occupants of that land have no right to gain from that act of theft. We need to abandon support for Isreal and tell the rest of the Middle East - ‘Have at ‘em boys’, and let them drive ALL the Jews there into the sea. For those who draw parallels to our treatement of Native Americans and what we should do about them, I say yes that is a problem. However, there are no living Native Americans holding deeds to land that was taken from them by white Europeans, and there are still Palestinians holding title to lands confiscated by Isreal.
Withdrawing our support of Isreal will help to restore the balance in the region to what it should be. Yes, it will hurt our efforts to control oil resources in the region and force up the prices we pay for oil. That would be a good thing to finally bring some sanity to our selfish, bloated and ruinous ways of living in the “modern” world. This gets into all other kinds of issues to be discussed other places, so I’ll leave it there.
Posted by truthteller on Nov 3, 2005 at 11:28 AM
truthteller, you are steller. tell us where to proceed. how do we redress the injustices, the heinous crimes that have been committed against the palestinians w/ mind-bludgeoning relentlessness for over 7 decades? be our cynosure, our pole star. i feel so helpless in this battle i’ve been involved in but losing since our family moved to jordan in 1988. here we are 17 years later, now working in egypt, and no progress has been made. in fact, the palestinians are suffering in an even more dispiteous state now than they were then. sanguinity is dying an anguished death.
Posted by tyrrhen on Nov 3, 2005 at 12:05 PM
truthteller:
I don’t mean to distract from your otherwise admirable screed, but I’ve had lots of personal contact with living Native Americans struggling to recover tribal lands deeded by treaty unilaterally abrogated by the US and various state governments. They’ve maybe had more success than the Palestinians, but still have a long path to walk.
But go on.
Posted by luminous beauty on Nov 3, 2005 at 12:27 PM
right you are, luminous beauty. during our regnancy in inuvik and tuktoyaktuk in the western arctic during the mid-‘80’s, we bore gratifying witness to the enormous strides being made by canada’s inuit and other ‘first nations’ under the COPE land claim settlements, wherein the canadian govt was compelled to return millions of sq.clix, as well as lucre, in compensation for what had been expropriated by us european defalcators. more compensation is to follow.
Posted by tyrrhen on Nov 3, 2005 at 12:47 PM
native americans get payed ‘reperations’ for the use of their land. they are not allowed to use large plots of the land apporpriated to them in certain states. This land is used for toxic waste dumping by the government and the natives are payed reperations. indeed we have a very racists government.
To say that our current administration’s policy is dictated by israel’s best interests would be moronic. They act only in the best interest of world trade. The 9-11 attacks weren’t on the israeli-american embassy. They were on the world trade building. Look at the history of american foreign policy. Look at an objective history of israeli foreign policy. To me you look like a bunch of racist yokels.
Go comment on david duke’s site.
Posted by turdburgler on Nov 3, 2005 at 1:56 PM
Hey Turd:
Comparing the American Indian situation is another AIPAC retort to serious questions as to the legitimacy of Israel..and it doesn’t float..Although what we did is inexcusable..there are Tribes now who are very rich…So rich that one of yours just swindled millions from them…seems you all have a propensity to take what’s not yours..Anyway as you might not know Jack Abramhoff stole those millions to build and support illegal settlements in sunny old Israel..Abramhoff is the lobbyist who also is in deep doodoo with DeLay in laundering campaign money…and he is also involved in a murder in Miami..involving another swindle of a Casino Owner. I must say..you all do get around..
Oh, the American Sage was 300 years ago…No one in this day and age rolls up on any shores and declars a ‘NEW WORLD’..on land already inhabitied…It seems Israel is suffering from a case of arrested development…You can try to put forth that argument..but you will look ridiculous and really very stupid..
As for David Duke…You were the one who brought him up…so you debat it if you feel it’s necessary…But I would be careful…Israel seems to have learned all they know from the Nazis, the collective punishments..all the way to building mini concentration camps for their slow genocide of the Palestinians…...
There are no yokels here..only the ones defending the right of Israel to exist on the backs of the Palestinians…
TATA..
.
Posted by Edithann on Nov 3, 2005 at 4:56 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pine_Ridge_Reservation
Yes, native americans are bathing in riches. <-sarcasm
There were jews in palestine prior to large amounts of Jews emmigrating to the lands. The formation of Israel was sanctioned by the U.N. The Jews emmigrated to escape persecution, not to conquer the arabs for exploiting the land.
Why would they emmigrate to the desert if that was their purpose?
so you support david duke?
Posted by turdburgler on Nov 3, 2005 at 5:20 PM
Hey Turd:
American Indians is not the subject..the subject is Israel…and the money we spend to suport your sorry asses..the money we send for you to brutalize the Palestinians, steal their homes, confiscate their land, destroy their social fabric, destroy their infrastructure..and perpetrate a slow, insidious genocide..so Israel can confiscate all their land..and truely make the ‘GOLDA GOLDIES..true…
Oh, that persecution crap is nonsense…everyone has been persecuted at one time or another..that doesn’t mean the world owed them someone else’s land…grow up..and get an adult argument…
you must read Finkelstein…you have a serious case of denial….
Changing the subject makes you look obvious!
.
I see you have a thing for david duke…
too funny, just too funny
TATA
Posted by Edithann on Nov 3, 2005 at 5:40 PM
All I can say to Truthteller, is hang in there..it will be a long hard pull, but you will eventually come out of it…Israel can’t last forever..they have no educational system to speak of..they have no industry., oil or water.. they have just about no economy but what we supply..and the religious nuts are taking over the government..so they can’t move much..
They have to create problems just to hold together.. .but they are falling apart, many Jews are leaving..there is no immigration to speak of….so the best we can do is bide our time..keep those deeds..and never, never, never give up…
Posted by Edithann on Nov 3, 2005 at 5:54 PM
It is always nice to be underestimated by your enemies. That is what the Arab states did in 1947-48 and in 1967 and ended up paying dearly for their mistake. As for
Posted by Ariram on Nov 3, 2005 at 7:52 PM
i didn’t change the subject to the native americans. It was brought up by someone else.
“There were jews in palestine prior to large amounts of Jews emmigrating to the lands. The formation of Israel was sanctioned by the U.N.”<- what about this?
U.S. GDP per capita -> $42,367
Israeli GDP per capita -> $22,944
Jordan GDP per capita -> $$4,427
Syria GDP per capita -> $1,378
Egypt Net migration: -0.22 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2005 est.)
Israel Net migration: 0 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2005 est.)
As for the educational system… I believe Neve Gordon, the author of this very article, teaches at a school in Israel.
Posted by turdburgler on Nov 3, 2005 at 8:07 PM
Well Assram & Turd:
Yes the UN sanctioned Israel, and you’ve been trying to destroy it ever since..Israel has almost 300 violaitons including Human Rights violations…so what about that?
You spout the same old tired Israeli arguments with not an ounce of facts to substantiate your claims…yes..there were all those people migrating to Israel..BUT HOW MANY HAVE LEFT??
More are leaving every day,,MORE LEAVING THAN ARRIVING.
I love it that you are taking in the Ethopians…They are the bottom of the rung, you need bodies to justify your claims..otherwise the whole damn place would be one big settlement.and you know it!...
Tell me true:..would you allow your daughters to marry one of them??? .
I understand a lot of Jewish Zionist girls from the US and Israeli girls find Ethopian Jews attractive,, I hear that the American Zionists are running in droves to marry Ethopian Jews…to show they aren’t prejudiced or racist..and are willing to make any sacrifices for Israel…...Is that true??? What do their Rabbis say about that??Do they arrange those marriages also??...I also understand, and it was in Haaretz, that the Rabbis make the arrangements for the marriages..even if the girls are underage, and in opposition to their parents…...How did those Rabbis get so much power?? ..
It’s all just too funny..just too, too funny….
The Israeli educational system in on a par with the 3rd world internationally..they are ranked 34th after Thailand….If it wasn’t for American money..Israel would have no economy at all…The US just banned Israel from selling arms to Venezuela…first China now Venezeual…pretty soon you will have to eat all those arms…
Who cares who teaches in Israel..you need more than Neve Gordon….you need to teach something useful…instead of that Vile Talmud..That’s just a manual for crime..how to do it, and who to do it to ...etc…
You can’t sell that usless, overworked, time worn ‘SCHTICK’ anymore..it’s not selling…
TATA..
Posted by Edithann on Nov 3, 2005 at 9:13 PM
Israel is ranked 23.
http://hdr.undp.org/reports/global/2005/pdf/HDR05_HDI.pdf
thailand is ranked 73.
I know nothing of arranged marriages in modern times… The grooms were of the same age as the bride.
Posted by turdburgler on Nov 3, 2005 at 9:51 PM
That’s not true..look up the educational standings in Haaretz…they are below Thailand…
And the girls were underage..and you didn’t answer the question of your prejudices towards other Jews..namely the Ethopian Jews…but you are so willing to drag them out for propaganda purposes….You are too much
...Don’t you know that half truths..are lies…don’t you know that deliberate omissions are lies…oh, I forgot..you get your rules from the Talmust..the “crime manual”...forget it…I stand corrected..you don’t know that half truths are
lies…you just lie!
And anyway..even if all you say was true..and it’s not…that still wouldn’t justify Israeli’s existance…you could all do the same thing in the new Diaspora…There never was a reason for an Israel, and there certainly is not a reason now..never was and never will be…..
TATA
TATA
Posted by Edithann on Nov 3, 2005 at 10:03 PM
my prejudice towards ethiopean jews? I have no prejudice. What about you? When did I use them for purposes of propaganda?
Give me a link to your alleged rankings at haaretz… There is no such document at the haaretz website.
I gave you a verifiable link from the source of my information.
The girls AND boys were underage. Prove otherwise.
This filth that is spat from your viale mouth is blatant anti-semitism. You have nothing to back up your argument other than information from purely anti-semetic sources. Find some information that is verifiable and objective.
Posted by turdburgler on Nov 3, 2005 at 10:56 PM
there is only one eidolon of truth that matters in this embittered polemic… the PRESENT… it is the present US/israeli-induced dystopia in which the brutalized palestinians struggle to survive, so eloquently described by finkelstein, that every humanitarian’s conscience must address. and it must be addressed by everyone w/ a shred of misericordia [compassion and mercy] before israeli troops jack-boot their way thru gaza and what remains of palestine’s west bank. now that all the jewish settlers have been summarily and safely extracted from gaza, the israeli genocide of gazan palestinians has kicked into high-gear. soon it will be too late. and still the media will suppress the evidence of this genocide. the israeli/zionist propaganda machine will ensure that velleity and unapologetic mendacity prevail.
Posted by tyrrhen on Nov 3, 2005 at 11:46 PM
palestinians play war games with the israelis.
there is a cause and effect involved in the actions of palestinian rebels. Militant dissenters, jewish or otherwise, from inside the israeli state would be treated in a similar manner as would those in any other modern state. Palestine is not a sovereign nation for a reason. Militant dissenters from inside the Palestinian state are not treated in this manner. Until this changes little progress can be expected in terms of their statehood.
Posted by turdburgler on Nov 4, 2005 at 12:38 AM
Israeli reaction to Palestinian militants has nothing to do with ‘Zionism’. It is merely to preserve the Israeli state. In order for Palestine to achieve its independence, it must first and foremost seek to preserve an organized free government capable of maintaining order, self-preservation, and lobbying for change in Israeli foreign policy. It will NEVER achieve this if Palestinians continue to seek an end to the means via militant action against Israeli civilians.
Posted by turdburgler on Nov 4, 2005 at 12:45 AM
It is only dystopian if you are swimming against the current.
Turn around. You’re going the wrong way.
Posted by turdburgler on Nov 4, 2005 at 12:49 AM
The educational figures were in Haaretz..you look it up!
As for anti-Semitism…I think any criticizm of anything Israeli is Anti-Semitism..and especially someone who doesn’t by your propaganda on the wonders of Israel..
.
We feed your sorry asses, keep your IDF brutalizing the Palestinians, pay for your stealing of Palestinian land and your slow genocide of the Palestinian people..and you have the nerve to call anyone anti-semitc??
You are anti-American, anti- Goy, anti-Gentile…and anti-Arab..is there anyone else on the planet you hate??
Too funny, you are just too funny….
TATA
TATA
Posted by Edithann on Nov 4, 2005 at 6:30 AM
Hey Turd:
You do not have the world backing you..only us..I think it is you who had better turn around..because we will not be watching your back for long….Your neocon days are numbered..or hadn’t you noticed!
TATA
Posted by Edithann on Nov 4, 2005 at 6:32 AM
I think the hope for a change in U. S. policy towards Isreal lies with the attitudes of working class Americans, especially in the Black community. I hold an industrial, union covered job on the U. S. East Coast, and many, if not most of the African-Americans I work with are sympathetic to the Palestinian cause. From their history they understand oppression and know it when they see it. They are also generally untrusting of our Government’s motives in general, and are among the most likely to see and believe in the Zionist control of our media and politics.
I also see hope in the writings of some progressive authors and talk radio hosts like Stephanie Miller, Jeannene Garafalo, and Thom Hartmann, who have all questioned our uncritical support for Isreal.
Posted by truthteller on Nov 4, 2005 at 10:14 AM
I’m an American you racist moron. You are clearly anti-semitic if you believe zionists are in control of the american political system and the media.
Why do you think Finklestein makes his books so short?
He’s targeting the illiterate. This comment section has made that fairly clear.
As for your African American friends sympothizing with the Palestinians… Does your job require that the employees be beat with blunt objects over the head?
Bob Marley=zionist
There is still a Raggae zionist movement. In fact there are some upcoming shows where I live in Cali…
Under Arab society the Jews are a subjugated minority.
and as far as who won this argument… it was over a LONG time ago: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin’s_law
Posted by turdburgler on Nov 4, 2005 at 2:27 PM
Try and say anything on a call-in show on most radio or TV outlets in this Country that is in opposition to Isreal and see how long it takes you to get cut-off (C-SPAN may be one major exception). I heard Stephanie Miller being called every kind of racist, anti-Semitic thing possible one day by a Jewish listener for being critical of Isreal. There is definitely a concerted and coordinated effort in the media to stifle pro-Palestinian/anti-Isreali commentary.
I very much resent the implication of illiteracy. I hold a Bachelor’s degree in Political Science from a major American public University, and have been a political activist just about my entire adult life.
I don’t think most of my black aquaintances are all that political, but they do know unfair treatment and oppression when they see it, and they see it in Isreal’s treatment of Palestinians.
Posted by truthteller on Nov 4, 2005 at 2:48 PM
Hey Turdie:
No, you are not an American, you are a Dual Loyalist..an Israeli Firster and an American Traitor..just like your buddy Johnathn Pollard and the neocons who will be joining Pollard soon I hope!....
I’m the American..You are not!
Finkelstein is not appealing to the Illiterate..He is showing you and the Dershowitz zionist followers just how devious and evil you all are…and how you hound someone and villify them for telling the truth…
Besides yourself and Assram..who else has been championing your cause?? too funny….
I love when you display some comparison crap..first it’s the American Indians, now it’s Bob Marley and of course there is always the Arabs…and my response to that is SO WHAT’S YOUR POINT?? SPELL IT OUT..SO WE CAN ALL SEE YOUR RACIST THINKING….SO WHAT?????????
As I said..would any Jew in Israel or all those Kibbutz’s ask their Rabbi permission to marry an Ethopian Jew..for Israel??
Too funny…you are just too funny..but never forget..BREEDING WILL OUT.. and you are proof positive!
TATA
Posted by Edithann on Nov 4, 2005 at 2:59 PM
Both comparisons were made by anit-Israeli posters. I was merely illustrating both comparisons to be completely and utterly invalid. What’s YOUR point?
I was born in Florida. That makes me an American.
Is calling someone a Nazi vilification? I’m not sure. What do you think?
Would I marry an ethiopian jew? I probably would if I fell in love. Would I have to ask my rabbi? I don’t have a rabbi.
what exactly does “BREEDING WILL OUT” mean? I’m not an english major, but it appears to me that doesn’t make too much sense.
Truthteller: Under Arab society the jews are the subjigated minority. I’m not sure that you understand the meaning of this, so I will rephrase it. Jewish people are oppressed in an Arab society. Much like African Americans are oppressed in American society.
Posted by turdburgler on Nov 4, 2005 at 6:03 PM
An article not to miss…TATA
http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=7908
Posted by Edithann on Nov 4, 2005 at 6:03 PM
Ignorance is the last refuge of the scoundrel. In this case of the vile anti-Semitic scoundrel.
The way Edith speaks about the Jewish religion, the Talmud and how the Jews rule the world, betrays typical, classic anti-Semitism. But of course, here the extreme hatred to Israel blinds many to see this blatant anti-Semitism. Criticism of Israel
Posted by Ariram on Nov 4, 2005 at 6:42 PM
Well Turdie & Assram:..
You are lying again….Jews were never oppressed in Arab society..In fact they were respected and accepted..for hundreds of years, lived comfortably and prospered…...
They only became oppressed when the Zionists decided they were all to move to Israel after the war….and Israeli terrorist gangs started their secret terror campaign of harassment of the Arab governments making it uncomfortable for them to stay in the counties they had inhabited for hundreds of years…Remember Turd, half truths are lies..you didn’t tell the whole truth.!
To make the comparison of Jews living in Arab countries for centuries as the Negros here in the South in the early days….is really shameful of you…it’s not true..any of it..
It’s all a lies..Either you don’t know your history..or you are deliberatly telling lies….as usual..it’s telling lies….
Yes I will attack your religion..because the roots to the worlds problems and the centuries of Pariah status Jews have held in the world, can be found in the pages of that vile Talmud..and the fairytale Torah…
That is also why the govt. of Uzbekistan was insistent that the headl Rabbi turn over the ‘TAYNA’..a derivative of that vile Talmud..to finally see what was written and, to find out the indoctrination the Jewish congregations were getting…something analogues to what the Israeli’s keep doing in translating Arab Sermons…
And it not only took the local Rabbi but the Israeli government to intervene and stop the turnover…..so the material was never revealed…
Now the logical questoin would be..what was in that liturgy that was so secret? That no one else could see it??
Well some of those secrets can be found in Jewish History, Jewish Religion..by Israel Shahak..an Israeli scholar..who lays out how much the Jews are taught to hate gentiles…
and how that ‘shtick’ of calling someone an anti-Semite seems to stop one in their tracks…
But they didn’t reckon on Edithann….so you can stick that anti-Semitic crap..up your you know where!.....
There is nothing anti-Semitic about anything I’ve written…is it anti-Semitic not to like you because your a dual loyalist? Is it anti-Semitic to want all aid to Israel stopped?? Is it anti-Semitic to want to see Israel in the very mini concentration camps they are building for the Palestinians???
..Get off that old tired mantra of ‘classic anti-Semitism…there never was such a thing..it’s always been more classic Zionist Propaganda.
BREEDING WILL OUT! and in your case it’s in ‘spades’!
TATA
Posted by Edithann on Nov 4, 2005 at 8:16 PM
and as to your inquiries about the jewish texts. You are completely correct in you charges that they contain plans of world domination. haha… I WILL RULE THE WORLD!
Posted by turdburgler on Nov 4, 2005 at 8:40 PM
Hey Turdie..
When you are a minority in a country…you are a minority!..Just as the Israeli Arab is a minority..with the same discriminations by the Israeli’s…and much worse..they also are not allowed to build, and are thoroughly discriminated against by the Israeli judicial system..
Using your same arguments, then the Israeli Arabs have a good case for their own Homeland..can we say it’s already Palestine??.
Seems as though you aprove of the same the same kind of discrimination on others as you’ve lamented for the poor Jewish minorites in the Otto.Empire…...It’s odd that you don’t recognize it! I would call that extremely hypocritical wouldn’t you???...Oh, do you allow Isaeli Arabs to have arms?? Too funny, just too funny!
Can we say the collective punishments of the Palestinians, by the Israelis is analogous to the Nazis?? Just another reminder of your lies on just about every subject!..
The Ottomans were always accepting of Jews…Your propaganda is in reaction to the fact that Jews were never able to become part of the ruling class…and were kept in their places as merchants and businessmen..and not involved in the political process..it seems Arabs were smarter..and never gave you all a chance to start trouble…....You forget, it was precicesly those reasons they were kicked out of Spain..oh, and other Europen countries…The Diaspora was a continuing caravan..did you ever ask yourselves why???
You must read more history..your way off the mark!
Oh, if they were so put upon as you say, there would have been a constant migration out of the Arab countries..and that was never the case! In fact it wasn’t until the new emerging Israeli Terrorist gangs that finally made it necessary for Jews to leave Arab counties..The intention was to have all Jews in Arab countries move to Israel..and it took the Irgun, the Stern gang, and others Israeli Terrorist gangs..to accomplish it because most Arab Jews didn’t want to leave…the Zionists made it uncomfortable for them to stay with their constant ‘false flags’, instigating assassinations and bombings…and the Jews who had lived for centuries peacefully in Arab countries, no longer felf safe..it was all a Zionist set up, and documented..One has only to read BenGuerion’s papers…
Remember, it was the European Jews who were constantly kicked out..for legitimate reasons of always overstepping their boundaries as guests…You all never did know how to be ‘good’ guests…that’s one of the glaring facts that prove the point of BREEDING WILL OUT!
The Talmud is the crime manual and laws pertaining to same…The Protocols, as you’ve referenced…is the history and agenda of world Jewery. Centuries old historical facts and reputations was enough material to put documented historical facts to paper and reach obvious conclusions..
.It wasn’t rocket science then and it’s not rocket science now…
Just look at the facts man, just the facts…HOWEVER, not your faux facts…HISTORICAL DOCUMENTED FACTS OF PEOPLE LIKE FINKELSTIEN, ISRAEL SHAHAK, CHOMSKY, HERSH, SHARETT, AND COMPARE THEM TO YOUR OWN! ETC.,ETC., ETC….
TATA
Posted by Edithann on Nov 5, 2005 at 5:59 AM
Do Finkelstien and Chomsky make references to the “protocols”? bwhahaha
too funny.
most of the ‘protocols of the elders of zion’ were plagiarized from works by Maurice Joly and Eugene Sue. It’s odd Sue’s work was critical of Jesuits and the french monarchy. This is documented fact. That was sarcasm where I stated my plans to rule the world. I was mocking you. You should seek therapy. You are illustrating paranoid and deluded thoughts.
Palestinian sovereignty is not an issue of race, religion, or nationality in my eyes as I stated before. The government there is not stable. Those in ‘power’ do not protect their power. The state is not self-sustaining. The government does not seek to eliminate militant groups that threaten its very existence. It would not be intelligent to give Palestine full sovereignty at this point. There would be a substantial loss of life from the war that would result from such a decision.
You are correct in you assertion that I am not in charge of Israeli gun laws (or did you mean appendages?)
As for the minority argument… It appears to me the jewish people of Israel are still a minority in the middle east.
Posted by turdburgler on Nov 5, 2005 at 3:36 PM
Hey Turdie:
Now you qualifying you remarks with ‘In my eyes’..too funny..just too funny….
What makes you think your mocking was un-noticed..It was so stupid I just chalk it off to an idiot trying to be funny! I think you give yourself too much credit where it’s not warranted..
I just ignore most of your propaganda..without you crying persecutions and minority status ..you would have nothing to say at all!
As for the Protocols..as I’ve already stated..makes no difference who wrote it, even if it was plagiarized..(we know all of Dershowitz’s book was plagiarized from faux facts by a faux author on Israel) and oddly, it was all the same crap you’ve been touting as fact word for word…. Finkelstein cleaned his clock..just as I’m doing with you!
Mocking…..too funny, too damn funny….
When you start saying something that hasn’t already been written in a script extolling the virtues of Israel..you might be taken seriously..but everyone has heard all your stuff over the years adnauseam….And they’ve all been disproven…
You are just not with it old boy.!..
Too funny…just too funny
TATA
Posted by Edithann on Nov 5, 2005 at 4:41 PM
I qualified it with ‘in my eyes’ as you were refering to my views on the palestinian issue. You were putting words into my mouth…
as for your retort… all I can say is this:
You have brain damage. Seek therapy.
Posted by turdburgler on Nov 5, 2005 at 4:45 PM
Hey Turdie:
Now you are as expert on mental health as you are on Israeli history…Too funny, you are really a riot…
I have yet to meet a stupid Jew..who didn’t think he was a shrink..and qualified to question someone mental health because they didn’t buy his line of lies…now that’s really a scream….I would call that ANTI-CIVIL LIBERTIES..
You know the Russians put dissidents in mental hospitals all the time, and they were always ‘right!.....is that also an Israel tactic?? Seems all anti-Israeli’s are nuts…
Too funny, just too funny…
I guess you have no more lies to put out..so
TATA
Posted by Edithann on Nov 5, 2005 at 5:02 PM
Turdie:
YOu seem to be so lacking on Israeli facts..I think you might find the following enlightening…but then, you might think it’s a lie..but then what the hell do you know anyway….anyway, read it and then we may discuss….TATA
http://www.chss.montclair.edu/english/furr/essays/rokach.html
Posted by Edithann on Nov 5, 2005 at 5:44 PM
eximious edithann! thank you for directing my attention to the montclair edu. site; i plead nescience about shaaret’s diaries ..... monumental negligence on my part. his diaries should be on the required reading list of every american and canadian high school history class, as well as every university poli sci class. it begs the impugnation no one dares whisper but sub-consciously suspects… the deliberate involvement of israeli machinations and subterfuge in the 9/11 incursions.
Posted by tyrrhen on Nov 6, 2005 at 6:28 AM
Tyrrhen..there is much more proof of the same caliber out there and it should be spread out through as many channels as possible..For too long the Zionists and their Diaspora supporters have had a free reign on our media for their own brand of Propaganda..and it must be stopped because it’s been all lies from the earliest…
It is necessary to spread this information as often as possible….the true information of the Zionists and their Agenda..history and all..
It’s not necessary to go into the legal aspects of those Protocals..the truth from former prime ministers of that vile Israel should be enough..the truth is always enough..it’s just a matter of getting it out there ‘ALL THE TIME’..and never let them have the last word on any of it!
TA.
Posted by Edithann on Nov 6, 2005 at 1:30 PM
You reference a 63 page ‘book’.
Where are the peer reviews?
Where is Moshe Sharrett’s diary?
All I can find are other articles that reference the Rokach ‘book’. In 25 years no one else has written a single article referencing his diary? It seems if this was verifiable reputable information there would have been a deluge of analysis following the publishing of Moshe Sharett’s diary in 1979.
Posted by turdburgler on Nov 6, 2005 at 5:13 PM
as you exhort, edithann… zionist duplicity and israeli dissembling in the media [which they gained suzerainty over decades ago] must be divulgated, tirelessly and relentlessly. during our years in jordan in the late 80’s ~ early 90’s, i feverishly turned out 3/4-paragraph articles and letters-to-the-editors of hundreds of newspapers and rags in the US, in an effort to disseminate the truth about what was really unfolding during palestine’s initial intifadah, w/ eye-witness accounts of israeli brutality, torture, and murder, w/ their lethiferous ‘rubber bullets’ aimed at children… yes CHILDREN, many of whom carried not even a pebble in their hands, never mind rocks, yet were summarily dispatched into a state of permanent bone-smashed disability by the butt-ends of machine gun-toting israeli troops. i witnessed these children die before my eyes, children whose families had managed to bring them across the border into jordan where our over-subscribed hospitals struggled to provide the medical care for them the israelis denied them, either by bombing palestinian hospitals or barring access routes to them. needless to say, the no. of letters/articles i sent that were actually published in the press was nugatory in the extreme. i was so frustrated, i beseeched my sister in pennsylvania to print hundreds of leaflets for me and distribute them by hand wherever there was no proscription against unsolicited material. the outrage and anguish has not palliated w/ time.
Posted by tyrrhen on Nov 7, 2005 at 5:11 AM
tURDIE:
Look them up yourself..it’s you who are defending the Israeli position..and refuse to read any other views on the topic..so the diaries are out there..do your own research…
As for peer reviews…look up Dershowitz for a peer review..I’m sure he can find something for you IN TIME IMMEMORIAL..too funny, ..you’re both ‘birds of a feather’..One lies..and all the rest all swear to it!
TATA
TATA
Posted by Edithann on Nov 7, 2005 at 7:04 AM
Dear Tyrrhen:
Yes the problem of getting information out of Israel and Palestine has been terrible..Israel had all the lines of communications controlled..and so only their lines of propaganda got out..However thanks to the INternet..those days are gone forever..that’s why there are people like Turd and Assram on all discussoin boards just trying to stem the tide.But ou notice..when it comes to facts..they back off..just as Assram has..and Turdie has changed his tune…
.Everything is getting out..and it’s harder and harder for them to keep up with all the lies…just as it’s harder and harder for them to claim all that endless anti-Semitism…who cares about it anymore??..I certianly don’t!..And everyone I know seems to think it’s badge of honor now to be called an anti-Semite..Their racism know’s no bounds. And they are taught to hate from childhood…and that can also be proven..it’s all in their TALMUD..and TANYA…
They have lost their place as worlds victims….they themselves are the villains and scourge of the world..and must be stopped…
So keep on writing..and get on as many bloggs and discussion groups as you can…to thwart all of them…and especially the American Zionist Traitors..
TATA
Posted by Edithann on Nov 7, 2005 at 7:20 AM
be assured edithann, i will persevere in this mission until senectitude and my deliquescing digits render me a dysfunctional, otiose blog-of-ineptitude… and even then i will persist.
Posted by tyrrhen on Nov 7, 2005 at 8:25 AM
My dear Tyrrhen:
I’m sure you will keep on and that’s most heartening…
However I would suggest you don’t make your writing so esoteric. I know you are having fun with the language..and it certainly fun to read..but keep in mind; we are trying to reach all peoples..and to make our points and arguments easy and simple to grasp…
Don’t forget;..the Israeli’s have had a very good head start..So we must do all we can to catch up…
TATA
Posted by Edithann on Nov 7, 2005 at 10:24 AM
Hey Turdie and Assram…
Just another little something..that should brighten up your day!
http://antiwar.com/justin/
Posted by Edithann on Nov 7, 2005 at 11:25 AM
I didn’t swear to anything edithann. What about you?
You rely purely on ad hominem attacks.
I will repeat this. There are no other analysis of Moshe Sharett Diary supporting the “Livia Rokach” ‘book’. There is not even a single peer review supporting her thesis. This is blatant black propaganda. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_propaganda
Posted by turdburgler on Nov 7, 2005 at 2:36 PM
Turdie..
I think his diaries might be difficult to get..I think the Israeli’s have made sure of that..They have a way of making pertenant information scarce..but with enough effort, I’m sure you can get your hands of something…Go to your local library..and get them for yourself or get them through the inter-library system….Oh, and while your at it..I would suggest you ask for the diaries of Moshe Dyan..I think you will also find those diaries interesting….especially the ones closer to his death..He seemed to have changed a little there at the end and became more introspective..and not quite the barbarian butcher he was as a young Turk!
It’s so like you all, always wanting someone else to do your work for you…Unless you are crippled..you can do it yourself…I have not made an ad hominem attacks..I state facts..facts to which you haven’t been able to refute..
I really don’t care whether you take it as fact or not…I do..and so do many others, in fact all of academia has accepted it…and that’s all that’s important…
Just as that Talmud is a vile ‘hate’ manual…I believe it…and so do many more….If you can show where it’s not true..and you weren’t brainwashed as a child to ‘hate’ all goys and gentiles..please put it on..were all here waiting…
TATA
TATA
Posted by Edithann on Nov 7, 2005 at 3:26 PM
Edith will not tecognize a “fact” even if it hits her in the face.
I expect any day now to see Edith burning the Talmud, just like her predecessors (Spanish inquisition, the Nazis and the like ) did in the past. I will wager that if she asks her heroes (Fin
kelstein and Homsky), if the Talmud is a
Posted by Ariram on Nov 7, 2005 at 3:49 PM
Just consider the following a PUBLIC SERVICE MESSAGE…..Tata
http://counterpunch.com/halper11072005.html
Posted by Edithann on Nov 7, 2005 at 3:49 PM
Hey Assran..
Why are you always talking about me..I never talk about you, I’m not interested in you at all..only in the propaganda you have yet to defend..
..You haven’t said anything on the topic..Don’t worrry about your precious Talmud..I wouldn’t burn it..I would do what they did to the Quran in Gitmo…I’d pee on it…page by page!
Until it was a nice yellow..and then I’d burn in on synagoguge steps….Because it’s the book that’s responsible for making you all vile human specimens..
http://www.wrmea.com/backissues/031885/850318011.html
Posted by Edithann on Nov 7, 2005 at 4:44 PM
Hey Turdie…look what I came across..
Oh, and I don’t care about any of your not accepting what I say..I certainly don’t accept anything what-so-ever that you say..because I know you all lie…and have lied for centuries about anything and everything…
I think you all might enjoy the following…but pay particular attention to the last paragraph of his quotes..He says it all there..oh, and all can be gotten on Google…it’s a gold mine of information…even stuff you don’t want ‘OTHERS’ to know about..especially that TALMUD..
I don’t think I’ll ever get over a book that has 619 laws to keep you all in line..boggles the mind..Hey Assram:can you pee without trasgressing or violating a law???
I bet not!!! too funny, just too damn funny….
http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Famous-Zionist-Quotes/Story639.html
Have fun…TATA
Posted by Edithann on Nov 7, 2005 at 5:46 PM
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/customer-reviews/071468063X/ref=cm_cr_dp_pt/103-1788485-8131000?_encoding=UTF8&n=283155&s=books
erm… Please stop posting long since exposed mis-information and propoganda.
Posted by turdburgler on Nov 7, 2005 at 7:20 PM
Oh, that’s rich..you a nice big brown Turd, of all people talking about mis-information and propoganda!...Just your defense of Israeli’s existance in propaganda at it’s height…
Forget it..if you don’t want to read it..just don’t!...
But I will put everything and anything I can to show to the world the evil you all have perpetrated on the Palestinians…..and especially the Jewish cabal that is running for cover now in DC…
I trust you have already read J. Raimondo’s article on that False Intelligence which got us into Iraq for Israel…It seems all the info goes right to the Israeli doorstep…so have a good evening…and enjoy all my so factual information…I see you have none to counter….
Too funny, just too funny…
TATA
.
Posted by Edithann on Nov 7, 2005 at 7:40 PM
Hey turdie..Here is another so called Propaganda…
http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Famous-Zionist-Quotes/Story697.html
Posted by Edithann on Nov 7, 2005 at 7:44 PM
another truth….
http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/content.php?pg=11
Posted by Edithann on Nov 7, 2005 at 7:46 PM
http://www.counterpunch.org/halper11072005.html
Partial list of Neocon (Jews) 5th column of influential Jews who have managed to get America to go to war for Israel…
Would one think this is anti-semitic? would one think this might create a backlash for Jews? Would one think these Jews have brought it on themselves? Would one think this is a repeat of centuries of Jewish history? I certainly would!
TATA
Commentary founder and editor Norman Podhoretz;
Irving Kristol, former Commentary editor and founder of The Public Interest;
Elliot Abrams, head of the Middle East Desk of the National Security Council and Podhoretz’s son-in-law;
Douglas Feith, Undersecretary of Defense and one of the architects of the occupation of Iraq;
Paul Wolfowitz, former Deputy Secretary of Defense now heading the World Bank;
Richard Perle, former Chairman of the Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board;
William Kristol, son of Irving, co-founder of the Project for a New American Century;
Daniel Pipes, Middle East Studies professor and founder of the notorious CampusWatch;
Charles Krauthammer, Washington Post columnist;
Dov Zakheim, former Comptroller of the Separtment of Defense;
David Wurmser, Cheney’s chief Middle East advisor;
Kenneth Adelman, a hawkish arms control expert and senior Pentagon official.
Posted by Edithann on Nov 8, 2005 at 5:20 AM
It seems that those French riots might be just another one of those provocative Mossad False flags, to which we’ve become so accustomed….have fun…TATA
http://www.rense.com/general68/french.htm
Posted by Edithann on Nov 8, 2005 at 7:26 PM
The discussion here is very sad. I really enjoy In These Times, but it upsets me to no end that the Zionist movement is being blamed here. What should be blamed are the policies of specific Israel governments (if you disagree with them) or particular US neocons who yes, happen to be Jewish. I am Jewish, consider myself antiwar and progressive on social/economic issues, and identify strongly with the state of Israel. So criticize the policies of Sharon, Bush, et. al all you wish, but don’t blame Zionism for human rights violations occurring in the Middle East. These problems are the fault of political elites, NOT the inevitable result of a broad ideological movement to ensure a homeland for the Jewish people in their ancestoral homeland.
I read The Case for Israel and was disappointed by the lack of supporting evidence for Dersh’s many claims. But the knee-jerk anti-Zionism (notice I didn’t say anti-Semitism, which means something different) on display here is hateful—not progressive in spirit.
Posted by stevendjoss on Nov 17, 2005 at 3:13 PM
Yes, I agree, the discussions here are very sad..But you are in denial if you think Zionism isn’t to be blamed..To say it’s the fault of certain specific Israeli governments is a simple cop out of responsibility…
You forget, there really was and is no justification for a Jewish Homeland superimposed on Palestinian land in the 20/21 century…If you can explain that one point, with justification then maybe there can be a dialogue..but until you can address that fact..then all your points are moot..
.
What gave Israel the right to exist? what gave Israel the right to take Palestine? what gives the right of Israel to continue it’s occupation?
This is not a knee-jerk anti-Zionist position..it’s an honest question requiring an honest answer…
.
One cannot consider himself antiwar, progressive on any social/economic issues or levels when the basic premise is built on lies, torture, assassinations, and a willful political base of ethnic cleansing…
Posted by Edithann on Nov 18, 2005 at 8:13 AM
Edith, I’m sure you would like to moderate this debate and define its terms, but that’s not what a discussion is about. It would seem you are holding Israel to a higher standard that the US. I would answer your questions by saying: what gave the US to exist? What gave the Europeans colonists the right to take the land of the native Americans? What gives the US government the right to continue its occupation? What gave the US the right to ethnically clense the Native population? Can one consider oneself antiwar, progressive, etc and support the existance of the US, rather than criticize the Bush, Clinton administration?
I’m sure you think this is a cop out, but it is reality. What would you propose for a solution to the fact that large parts of the US are actually occupied territories of Mexico? Should we demand the US government give it back?
The bottom line is that Israel won its right to self determination through the UN and is recognizied as a soverihn nation but pretty much every country besides Iran and many Leftists. Do you not recognize the leegitimacy of the UN? Or just some of its resolutions (those that condemn Israel?)
If you reject the existance of Israel, why do you not similarly reject the soverignty of the US? This is an honest question and deserves an honest answer.
Posted by stevendjoss on Nov 18, 2005 at 8:48 AM
My dear Steven..your argument about what America did 300 years ago..is the standard ‘GOLDEN GOLDA” line or propaganda reasoning but it doesn’t float in the present world..Hadn’t you noticed…there is no colonialism anymore and hasn’t been now for a hundred years..so your argument is out of date..the only colonization today, is the creeping Israeli colonization and confiscation of Palestinian land.
Although you think you deserve an answer for your outworn, outdated analogy on US sovereignty you conveniently ignored my questions as to WHY THERE SHOULD BE AN ISRAEL ON PALESTINIAN LAND?
TA
Posted by Edithann on Nov 18, 2005 at 9:50 AM
No colonization in the past 100 years? So is that what the statute of limitations is? I didn’t realize. So I guess in 2105, Israel will be in the clear by your standards. Or will it take 300 years…I’m really not clear. Any new country by your definition is a colonizer, so I guess we magically reached the point 100 years ago where no new countries could exist.
I conveniently ignored your questions? you conveniently ignore mine! Do you support the existance of the US? So you win because you asked me first? That’s 3rd grade logic at best.
“Don
Posted by stevendjoss on Nov 18, 2005 at 10:14 AM
Well, I guess you can’t discuss anything because my mind is made up?..Could it be you have no argument to substantiate your position…..I know your mind is already Zionist. I don’t think you are impossible to talk to…but apparently you can’t seem to get your point across to me…
Could that be because you really have no legitimate argument to substantiate your claim to Palestine land?
And that ‘Golden Golda’ script about the American Saga just didn’t sell, and you have no other argument??...Is that the only justification you can find? Sad I would say….
Just think about it..I asked the simple question ‘WHY DOES ISRAEL HAVE THE RIGHT TO EXIST ON PALESTINE LAND.. apparently either you can’t answer that question honestly..or you refuse to answer because there is no RIGHT FOR ISRAEL TO EXIST ON PALESTINIAN LAND..
and you have a difficult time defending the position…
If you know in your heart you are in the right..I certainly wouldn’t let anyone dissuade me from my point..but I notice..there isn’t a Zionist who can defend that position.
So if you can’t defend it with pride and a clear heart..you know that you have no right to the land…and you are complicit in a monumental theft and tragedy…...
Of course there are some people out there who love Israel, as there are ‘more’ people out there who love Palestine..do you think those people might be the ones whose homes have been stolen, lands confiscated and the ones now finding themselves refugees in their own lands?? And then there are the interned already in the Israeli mini concentration camps being built for the ones who didn’t run away???
Yes, you are right..there is nothing else to discuss because you have no legitimate argument..except the same old, same old tired Israeli Propaganda Line the world has heard ad nauseam….which still hasn’t made the claim to any of Israeli legitimacy..
As for that Talmud..I think you might read it from the ‘OTHERS’ point of view… of what it reveals to the faithful, and then maybe you might understand why you have had the same centuries old reputations..
I find that it’s almost impossible that you are incapable of understanding how we ‘OTHERS’ view the same situations..
But then you can’t understand ‘WHY OTHERS CAN’T UNDERSTAND WHY ISRAEL HAS NO RIGHT TO EXIST ON PALESTINIAN LAND!
I also wish you well.
TATA
Posted by Edithann on Nov 18, 2005 at 4:16 PM
Edithan:
Are you retarted or something?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaii
50th state as of 1959.
American orchestrated coup d’etat in 1893.
Jews were a subordinate minority in the middle east. Israel was created essentially as a giant refuge camp for jewish people. Mostly because people like you don’t take to kindly to jewish folks.
There was a jewish population in Jerusalem since antiquity. To say they had no right to exist there is ingorant. To say that they have less justification than America does for their attrocities is compeletly irrational and insane.
Please give a sound explanation as to why Israel does not have the right to exist. Simply stating that it is Palestinian land does not suffice.
You seem to have a difficult time defending your position. So much so that you constantly reference outlandish conspiracy theory websites that are reminiscent of www.davidduke.com
Posted by turdburgler on Nov 18, 2005 at 5:50 PM
Oh, If it isn’t Turdie!..
Well, where have you been? I thought you had retired from the fight..but I see, you are defending the position again..you must be a glutton for punishment….....
Of course there was a Jewish population in Jerusalem since antiquity..Jews have been around in just about everyplace on the planet for a long, long time and consistantly thrown out as many times….They were even in Egypt if you recall. Up until they were told to leave and given a huge amount of gold to do so..all of which they were able to build that Golden Calf’ to worship while Moses was up in the hills chiseling out those tablets he was ready to palm off on those calf worshipers!.........
So why aren’t you claiming Egypt? In fact, I would think Jews have more of a right to some parts of Egypt than they have to Palestine. They supposedly were there longer, and should have at least earned squatters rights. But as usual, you all did something to make the Egyptians thow you out again..but this time, they were so anxious for you to leave..they even paid you from their treasurey…
As you all wandered those 40 years you then coveniently tripped over Palestine for the first time..only that time it was called Canaan.and proceded to do to them what you’ve been trying for 60 years to do to them today…..I think you had better read your history old boy..you are way off the beatten desert track!..
As for being retarded..I think you should think twice about calling names…Calling names is the sign of desperation in a lost argument…and it’s certainly not becoming…...tsk, tsk..you don’t seem to know much about your own history now do you??I mean the real history, not the romantic fairy tales you learn in Hebrew School..I mean the truth about your history that negates all that ‘special’ garbage you’re made to believe, when the real truth is you are the same ancient thieves you’ve always been.
.I can’t believe I might know more about you, than you?? Too funny, just too funny…..
I see you are still in love with David Duke…I think maybe you have a thing with him..well get over it..If you can’t fight your battles without using outside stupid references, you shouldn’t be in this fight at all!
I have already stated why Israel has no right to exist…Now if you don’t remember..then just read my last few posts..
However, you still haven’t given me a good reason why you think Israel ‘SHOULD’ exist on Palestine land..Especially since it was already inhabited by the Palestinians, but don’t forget, this is the second time you all are claiming that same piece of land and .from the same indigenous peoples.
So why couldn’t you keep it the first time you stole it.??..Don’t you know that repetition is the sign of never having learned your lessons the first time??
So much for being ‘special’..
.
To equate the American Saga to present Israel is the ‘GOLDA’ stretch..just as good as her other ‘gem’ of there not being any Palestinians on the land..
Now really!, how’d you get away with that one for so long??...
Oh, I know..it’s the same way you’ve all gotten away with jail sentences for Holocaust Deniers..now that’s a real ‘gem’!..
Tell me, is the Holocaust a religion? Is not believeing the holocaust the way you do, a sin???
Is questioning the holocaust heretical? .
You are a joke..and the jokes are coming down around your ears..and I’m enjoying just watching it..you can’t defend your positions..and everyone has had enough of all your shananagans and your propaganda…
Too funny, it’s all just too damn funny…
TATA
Posted by Edithann on Nov 18, 2005 at 7:05 PM
bravo edithann, we fully support you! i would go one step further and say CORRECT…the u.s. has no right to exist and SHOULD give all its stolen land back to the native people! unfortunately, that is now virtually non-existent history.
Posted by tyrrhen on Nov 19, 2005 at 2:49 AM
Edithann: “I see you are still in love with David Duke…I think maybe you have a thing with him..well get over it..If you can
Posted by turdburgler on Nov 19, 2005 at 10:20 PM
Well Turdie..It’s ‘retarded’ and not retarted..You’ve done it twice..so I would assume you don’t know the word..as I see you don’t know a lot of things you keep writing about..
From your dogged persistenc in saying nothing..and all your postings, I surmise you are very young and very immature..and find some kind of testosterone rush in insulting people who don’t agree with your point of view..
There are hundredes and thousands of tribes all over the world..and they don’t have their own state..Just as the Jews hadn’t had a state for over 2500 years prior to ‘48!
These tribes might like to have their own state..in fact I know of one tribe at this very moment that thinks Israel is their ancestoral home and they have every intention of making that claim to the UN in the coming months…..
They are making plans now to take it over…and do exactly what you did to the Palestinians..they also claim that they have a history on the land..and they have their own ‘book’ that says they preceeded the Caananites, which we all know preceeded the Jews….so you see..you all might have to move out after all..
Don’t forget, with all the digging Israel has been doing now for over 60 years..they still haven’t found one iota of proof that any Jew ever lived there at all…so one has to question your original claim..
There was no Israel prior to ‘48..there was no reason for it then..as there is no reason for it now…if you can give me a reason why it was necessary to plant an Israel on the already inhabited land of Palestine..then maybe you might have a discussion…but to throw in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and all matter of sundry states..is the height of ignorance..and not worth bothering about..come up with an argument..and we can discuss..otherwise..go to bed!
TATA
Posted by Edithann on Nov 19, 2005 at 11:04 PM
You have not explained why Israel has less right to exist than any other modern nation.
Posted by turdburgler on Nov 19, 2005 at 11:49 PM
turdburglar, the fact that you site the most outrageous propaganda machine regnant in the US, i.e. elementary and secondary public school ‘history’ books, demonstrates the level of your brain’s sequacious pursuivancy. there isn’t a single historian writing about US history who was an eye witness to any of the events he/she prattles on about, and then presents to the publishing companies and their vulgate as the ‘apodictic’... scilicet, the unassailable truth. concomitantly, one can only conclude that such an author’s tautologies are just that…his- or her-story… nothing more, nothing less… most of these authors’ divulgations bring to the table of academic rigor EXIGUOUS evidence to support their historical detergings and white-washes on behalf of US and state govts., and all their apologists, myrmidons, and minions in the public ‘education’ sector. of course, the jews are entitled to live wherever they please, so long as they have not stolen the land from its rightful owners and occupants. and they are welcome to call that land they have LEGITIMATELY paid for and settled on whatever takes their fancy. but they have absolutely NO right to purloin land by force of arms from the legitimate owners and then shooting them where they stand if these legitimate residents resist being driven from the only homes they have ever had. we in canada are finally redressing the crimes we recognize and admit committing against our indigenous people, natives who were occupying those lands long before the europeans arrived like a scourge of locusts. the canadian govt. has returned not only vast expanses of land to COPE [canadian original peoples entitlement], but has also dumped hundreds of millions of dollars into their coffers in order to help the indigenous people claim back their livelihood and their dignity.
Posted by tyrrhen on Nov 20, 2005 at 3:53 AM
I just found this bit of information that I think might be enlightening to all non-Jews, who for centuries have found it difficult to understand the complete lack of Jewish honesty…As in the Talmud, certain character traites are encouraged, which to the wider world of non-Jews have always been objectinable..
Well here is another ‘BLOCKBUSTER’..the yearly ability to negate all promises, agreements, business and personal….
Blew my mind! Please read the following..and then go to Google..it’s all there..the following is a small sample of a debate on the issue..it’s a prayer, and an oath taken yearly by all Jews on their high holy day of Yom Kipper!
http://www.jfkmontreal.com/Kol_Nidre/kn_debate.htm
TATA.
Posted by Edithann on Nov 20, 2005 at 5:32 PM
Oh, those holocaust deniers..just wont believe without seeing all the proof for themselves…..
The nerve of them to question the Holocaust ....
tsk, tsk, tsk….too funny…just too damn funny..
Just imagine going to jail because one questioned the holocaust..
Next they will instist of burning all doubtfuls at the stake!
http://thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=3840
Posted by Edithann on Nov 20, 2005 at 9:39 PM
Fact: There is no “Palestinian” people, they are just a bunch of filthy dogs that Egypt, Jordan and the rest of the Arabs didn’t want. There is no “Palestine” in history, you can even look it up in the book!
The Israeli have been very patient with the “Palestinians”, but I think they should all be relocated (by force if necessary) to arab countries where they belong.
What do they contribute to Israeli society other than misery?
Michael R. Cohen, Esq.
New York City
Posted by michael_r_cohen on Nov 28, 2005 at 1:27 PM
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Reader Comments
You are off topic..the topic is Israel and the Palestinian problem…why are you trying to obfuscate the issue..don’t you have anything else to offer??
One of the leading Zionists here in the Bush Administration is up on 5 criminal charges…of lying and obstruction of Justice….don’t you think that alone, is topic enough??..After all, he is one of the leading signatures of that Contract for America,and chief of staff of the Vice President of America. That same blueprint for war, the Zionists have been flogging every administration since Daddy Bush..It took ‘STUPID’ to finally put it into fruition, at the cost of hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi lives, over 2000 American lives, and 47,000 seriously maimed, untold property damage, and the depletion of the US treasury..
and all for Israel!
Now I think that issue is more important than your vocabulary displays..You’re not impressive and only makes you look asinine, in light of the seriousness of the topic!
TATA
Edithann:
Turdbooger doesn’t look any less asinine when he’s on topic. Is his ad hominem about a ‘PUBLIC institution’ referring to UC Berkeley? How asinine can one get?
TB, as israel is the client state of the present murdurous regime in the US, not my country canada, it would be more accurate to describe you and your compatriots as gormandizing on baby flesh, given the obscene nos. of deaths, particularly of babies and children, suffered by the iraqi citizenry and the palestinian diaspora huddled in refugee camps, imprisoned in their own land. your venomous de haut en bas pullulates [breeds] lethiferous levels of hatred that ripple ever-outward from your vortex and maculate every ubiety the ripples touch. we and our progenitors have all suffered from the hate-mongering obloquy of others. my husband’s grandparents were slaughtered by the turks in talas. all my grandfather’s lands outside prague, bohemia [now the czech rep] were confiscated by the catholics and his herds slaughtered, but what remained of the 2 families came to canada and started again, w/out inciting a mordant [caustic] diathesis w/ which to poison the hearts of subsequent generations. vindictive ambits are self-abnegating. shoving the past and all its iniquities behind you and your fellow zionists is long overdue.
tyrrhen,
I thought I recognized your accent as Canadian, eh.
Look at the history of United States foreign policy.
The war in Iraq is not a war for Israel. It is a war to secure key natural resources. The neo-conservitives in America are NOT zionists. They are CAPITALISTS. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure that one out. Bush is an oil barron, not a jewish zionist. Why not cut off relations to the Sauds? That is not to say he is not racist, however, I don’t think he holds hatred for muslims alone.
Look at the history of Israeli foreign policy. Its relations with Palestine and the surrounding arab nations have been PREDOMINANTLY defensive in nature. I do believe Israel has always had a right to exist.
I hold no hatred for any people. Merely what unnerves me is heinous acts committed under the guise of a political ideologue. Clearly you believe I am entrenched in a purely dogmatic love for Israel and zionism. However, it is clear to me that you are entrenched in a dogmatic belief of your own. Tieing the Bush administration to Zionism is completely ludicrous.
Most of my family lives in Winnipeg ;) However, I am currently at Uni in California… ;)
From my understanding UC Berkley is a publicly funded institution. From my understanding teachers are strongly encouraged not to teach dogmatic ideology. Academic freedom refers to the right to publish facts and teach objectively not the right to teach ideology and hearsay. Public instutions are there to provide people with objective information so they can reach their own conclusions. It’s called ‘critical thinking’, sadly not everyone is ‘college material’. Private institutions like Harvard are not held to these moral standards. The article fails to mention this in its discussion of attempts to keep the book from being published.
tb
#1—you present a U.S. war of aggression to secure resources and establish regional force projection In the Mid East as mutually exclusive to America’s rabid support for Israel and certain zionist ideals, whereas these are quite intimately related.
The World Zionist Organization recommended a radical restructuring of the Mid East through violence, and their program dovetails with uncanny comfort with Mid East plans outlined by Jewish-American Nazis, including those composed by Jewish neocon zealots and described in a variety of documents, the Program for a New American Century, among others.
It seems preposterous to claim that many of America’s neocons had no zionist sympathies when they were paid members of a variety of zionist think ttanks and/or acted as direct advisors, laisons, etc to the israeli government or were directly attached to israel’s propaganda machine.
As to Mr. Bush and the most influential element in his power base..both are evangelical Christian psychopaths who have their own obsessive agenda involving the return of Jews to the so-called Holy Land in preparation for the Second Coming. It is no secret these fundamenatlist Christian lunatics, despite their anti-Semitism, have been embraced as important allies by israel.
#2 I suppose one COULD claim that most of israel’s actions have been “defensive.” They’ve “defended” their vicious ethnic cleansings, rapes, terror campaigns and massacres of 1947-48. They have “defended” the illegal expropriation of land and water from the indigenous population. They have “defended” their illegal apartheid wall as a “defensive” gesture, though it is a VERY thinly disguised land grab and effort to establish expansionist borders. They continue to “defend” their reprehensible human rights record, outlined in great detail in Norman Finkelstein’s latest book.
This brings me to my question for YOU.
WHY are you commenting on the nature of, and condemning the publication of A BOOK YOU HAVE PLAINLY NEVER OPENED?
Mr. Turd..
I hate to burst your bubble with some other critical thinking, but, Israel has been the aggressor since they invaded Palestine in the late 18th to early 20th Cent…...
And the Neocons are all Zionist dual Loyalists masquerading as Americans..all working for Israelis best interests, or so they thought…..
It was the Contract for the New American Century, written by Netanyahoooo himself and signed by nearly all the neocons (Jews) in the present administration which is he blueprint of what we are living through at this moment in time…I’m sure you might not be aware that Irving Lewis (Scooter) Libby is the first to get his ass in the sling..with more to follow, if all goes well…....I don’t know where you get your information..but I’m sure it’s from the same Zionist propaganda file issued by Israel, and handed out to all the Diaspora faithful….
It’s not rocket science, that the contract was more than appealing to the baser instincts of greed which seems to permeate the Bush crime family and, simultaneously dove taied with the never ending aspirations of Israel for perpetual war in the Middle East..It was a perfect storm for the fantasy of an Israeli emergence as Power Broker of the Middle East with the US as their ‘Bully Boy” !
And as Hubris would have it…Israel and the US are now being eaten alive…....
The only consolation for this American is, that as we go down..ISRAEL and their Diaspora supporters will go down also…
I don’t think you have benefited by the extraordinary opportunity you have at the UC at Berkley…because your critical thinking certainly leaves much to be desired..
.You are out to lunch on all your facts..I suggest you give up that ‘free’ seat you have at UC and give it to some worthy student…one who has the capacity to be able to think for himself..and is not already brainwashed with Israeli claptrap!.
.
Were the ‘Jewish Zionist Nazis’ involved in the attempted coup of Hugo Chavez in Venezuela aswell?
Since when is the UC system free?
http://registrar.berkeley.edu/Registration/feesched.html
Compared to Harvard, it might as well be free..It’s a state school and so doesn’t compare to Harvard..but then that’s where your buddy Dershowitz teaches..the seat he bought at he Law school…I bet it was endowed by an Israeli Firster..like himself!. so he would have a pulpit for his pro-Israeli tirades…...and anyway, what are you doing here??..What’s the matter with Canadian Higher Education??..Especially that you don’t like us..or do you find more kindred Israeli spirits here and especially in the CA area..Or maybe you’re one of those art students roaming around the states..and not at UC at all???????????????...
There isn’t a University in the US that is free from the ADL which automatically stifles any kind of free speech..They seem to have their own secret police monitoring the professors for fear they might say something about the ongoing Israeli barbarism.
Oh, are my remarks anti-Semitic???
Were the
By throwing in Chevez makes you very transparent…
You are deliberately trying to obfuscate the topic..the topic is Finkelstein and Dershowitz..Do you have a problem with discussing the topic or is your UC memory faltering.??..Or probably more to the point, it’s just another Israeli two step, to obscure the myriad of lies put out by Israel for the past 60 years, and sworn to by Dershowitz.
Finkelstein cleaned his clock in 317 pages and shot down all your claims to victimhood by the Arabs…All researched and impeccably documented ..
I would suggest you read the book and then start your classes. That is, if you are mature to accept the truth..And if you really are at UC!
TATA
You can repeat it until the ‘cows come home’!...
Does it have anything to do with the topic at hand??
And if it’s so important to you..let us know why?
TATA
My point was that the US has no ‘zionistic’ goals in its foreign policy. The US is involved in Iraq for the sole purpose of securing natural resources.
Please add this to your ever expanding vocabulary.
CORPORATOCRACY
YOU CAN NOT DROP OUT OF YOUR CLIENT STATE FREE MARKET SYSTEM.
You are out in space if you think it’s only corporatocracy..it’s that and Israel..what, can’t you accept that it’s for Israel also??..
Give me a break..of course it’s for oil..after all, with Iraq oil, there would be Oil for Israel and that dreamed of pipeline..
US alone has no Zionist interest per se, but just try and get anything that doesn’t include a big slice for Israel..it just would never happen…we are joined by the neck with Israel..and it’s all due to the Fuken Zionists and the clout they’ve had on our government since ‘48..So you can forget any other rhetoric..it doesn’t float..it’s been for Israel..the war, and the oil…So how come Russia was so smart?? They got rid of the Oligarchy Israeli sponsored crooks and now we will also…soon I hope!
You still haven’t mentioned Finkelstein and Dershowitz..
I guess you are an Israeli shill after all…..
TATA…
Derschowitz is from Harvard
Finkelstein’s book was published by the UC press.
You have brained your damage.
TB, contrary to your pronouncement, i suspect most harvard undergrads are in fact nullifidians, like my son, who is in 2nd year there… whether they check the identity box that labels them protestant, catholic, ba’hai, jew, muslim, pantheist, animist, shinto, buddhist, sycorax-votary, hindu, zoroastrian, agnostic, or a poseidon-acolyte…..
as you so argutely detected, david, yes, a canadian… but living in egypt.
My point was not that Harvard students were religious in any way, but rather that the ivy league schools if controlled by any conspirators would be controlled by white anglo saxon protestants rather than jews. I don’t believe the post I was responding to was inferring a religious orientation to the Jews in control of Harvard. It had more of a political connotation to it don’t you think?
It’s still and irrelevant point..religious or political…it’s still not on topic..and it’s still an avoidance of the topic..
You are out of touch with reality if you think there is a difference between public and private Universities..your ADL is an equal opportunity Anti-Semitic brigade..always looking for something that would put Israel in a bad light..and might put the Arab issue open to debate. There is nothing worse than anyone questioning the validity of Israel and it’s right to exist…Israel has no right to exist and that is exactly the point!
Me thinks you are circle jerking and looking to obscure the fact that Finkelstein is telling the truth..and is diametrically opposed to your facts..in fact..you have no facts!
What you are doing is exactly the usual Israeli agenda of avoidance of debate of any relevant and factual issues..
So if you have nothing further to add to the conversation..I suggest you hang it up….
TATA
Private Institutions of any kind are not heald to the same standards of Public institutions. Name a publicly funded Catholic School. It is expected that information be provided to students in a objective manor. I am asserting that neither of these books is entirely objective. Being that Harvard is a private institution it doesn’t really matter there.
Israel has as much right to exist as any other modern nation.
Israel has been the victim not the victimizer in the majority of cases. This point has as of yet not been refuted with the acception of israelisarefilth’s laughable reply which consisted entirely of hearsay. Here’s some more hearsay: I worked for amnesty international this past year. Their methods for political change involve the manipulation of statistics. I know that to be a fact, however, you will only know it as hearsay. Here’s a fact that you can verify. The latest California Peace Action/Amnesty International ads deplore US arms trade to the congolese. It has a picture of a child holding a gun. The gun is a russian AK-47. Haha. Political organizations tend to be biased.
Can you name one nation other than Israel that has returned the spoils of war after a victory?
Israel has no right to exist on another’s land..period..there is no other argument..
You are doing the AIPAC shuffle..and I refuse to play your stupid game..I don’t believe anything you say…on Amnesty Int’l..or anything else..Israel is the aggressor, always has been and always will be until we cut off all US monies…
You can stick you pseudo argument up your ‘you know what’!
Finkelstein is right, you all do the same thing..anything to change the subject…so how many Palestinians have you killed in your IDF days??..Are you on some sort of Katsas mission here?...
It all has to do with BY WAY OF DECEPTION we shall try and snow the world with our propaganda….and it’s not working..I don’t believe you are a student at UC and especially with any amnesty Int’l….you are just a fuken Israeli shill…
Oh, giving up the spoils of war?...You bastards haven’t given up a thing!..You are still stealing more and even building mini concentration camps. Disgusting vile trash!
So get lost!.
I’ve never been to Israel. The only time I left the states was for a bar mitzvah in Winnepeg when I was 14. I went to Puerto Rico once too, but I’m not sure that counts.
You argue only by personal attacks. You keep changing the subject.
Finkelstein sounds like a psuedonym to me.
Find yourself!
what’s a katsas?
Look it up in your mossad dictionary…
TATA
what’s mossad?
Well if Finkelstein sounds like a psuedonym to you..then it proves you know nothing at all about the subject?...
Ao why are you wasting everyone’s time?..Are you trying to impress anyone with yout vocabulary, which by the way, needs work…
I guess I was right after all, you aren’t a student at UC, in fact I bet you aren’t even an adult!
TATA
I was mocking you.
YOu!!!
Is this board your new assignment?
TATA
“We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population.” David Ben-Gurion, May 1948.
ISRAELI’S MUST ASSIMILATE FOR WORLD PEACE!
That’s not a real quote.
Now, why am I not surprised you would say that?...
I bet the Protocols aren’t a real blueprint either?...
I also bet the forgeries of the Niger nuclear material weren’t a mossad plant either?..
For someone who doesn’t know Finkelstein, his real name, or anything about the book; what gives you the authority to even make any statement as to the truth of anything???.....
Why would anyone take anything you say as anything but garbage??
you can’t discuss he topic..and you refute direct quotes…
What the hell are you doing here anyway???
Get lost! you have no credibility….
TATA
“Peace for us means the destruction of Israel. We are preparing for an all-out war, a war which will last for generations.”—Arafat, El Mundo, Caracas, Venezuela, Feb. 11, 1980
That one is though.
What’s Finkelstein’s real name? <-another joke
Anyone can do what I did and google that quote.
More lies..just as Finkelstein states..It’s all been a colossal lie from the moment the UN declared and Israel at the expense of the Palestinians to the present…
I bet you are going to tell me there never where any Palestinians and there was never a Palestine…that’s the Golda Golden Quotes..now I bet you will say that’s authentic….Too funny, just too funny!!!
As for Arafat, he already declared his acceptance of Israel years ago..only you all want the whole enchilada..way beyond the ‘UN ‘48 boundaries….
It’s Israel who is to blame for everything..all the killings..all the suicide bombings, all the demolishing of homes, the poisoning of wells the destruction of farm land, olive groves, killing of livestock, the destruction and slow genocide of the Palestinian people…all of it…
It’s because Israeli’s can’t live without war and an outside enemy, or they would turn inward and ask questions about a religion that preaches hate of ‘others’..and is full of lies…just as Norman Finkelstein states in his book ‘BEYOND CHUTZPAH’...and you have the chutzpah to keep on with your nonsense!
TATA
Israel’s Further Theft of Palestinian lands
http://www.imemc.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=14707&Itemid=1
16:12 Israel resumes plans to divide the West Bank into three isolated cantons
Saed Banoura - IMEMC & Agencies - Sunday, 30 October 2005
Israeli Authorities are carrying a plan which aims to divide the West Bank into three isolated parts, with roadblocks, settlement constructions and the separation Wall dividing them.
Israeli newspaper Haaretz reported on Sunday that Israel started to construct a huge roadblock near Tappoah settlement, south of Nablus, to separate the northern West Bank from the central areas.
An Israeli military source told Haaretz that the army decided nine months ago, to construct this roadblock, which includes ten routes, eight leading to the south and two to the north of the West Bank.
One of the routes will be used for ambulances and urgent cases, while another route will be used to enable easy passage for West Bank settlers.
Nablus governor, Mohammad Al Aloul, said that this plan aims to separate Nablus district from Jenin and the rest of the districts in the West Bank.
Al Aloul expressed deep concerns that Israel might consider these roadblocks and routes as international border crossings as it is currently considering Qalandia checkpoint, south of Ramallah as a border crossing in spite that it is far from Jerusalem and the Green Line with Israel.
An Israeli political diplomat reported that the installing the huge roadblock south of Nablus is one phase of Israeli policy of limiting the freedom for movement of the Palestinians by creating three huge isolated cantons in the West Bank; the other phases are resembled by controlling main roads in the West Bank and expanding Israeli settlements.
Currently, the Qalandia checkpoint is considered a main roadblock which separates the center of the West Bank from the south.
Israeli constructed Modi
I hope that quote wasn’t in this book. That would truly be pathetic.
“[Israelis]they would turn inward and ask questions about a religion that preaches hate of
edithann, your tireless, herculean protreptics, in a heroic effort to elucubrate this TB hebetude, are noble beyond compare. the augean stable that TB’s thought processes represent, is far too feculent and impetiginous for me to persist in further decontaminating attempts. my brain is benumbed by all the contusions sustained from bashing my skull against the concrete cortices of TB’s. but i applaud your energy, moral compass, and perseverence throughout these polemics; they are laudable. i cling to the hope that somehow our collective exertions will segue into a transformation of the US/israeli-created maelstrom the palestinians are drowning in, at least long enough for the palestinians to emerge for an invigorating breath of fresh air and a reassertion of their right to freely breathe the air that wafts across their own land.
I hereby declare that you have no right to exist…
Your arguments have been purely hearsay and ad hominem. Truely a pathetic display.
Arafat never said that..that piece of Propaganda was for your own consumption..to keep all the lobotomized brain dead Israeli’s still acting like Nazis..
As for that Nobel Prize…Begin got one too, and we all know what a terrorist he was…It’s all a bought prize anyway..they give them our like candy..to anyone with the money, that’s why Jews get so many…....
You are Zionist scum..and as I said…get lost!
TATA
As for turning inward..It would be your own Talmud stupid..that’s the one that’s filled with ‘HATE’ for all ‘OTHERS’! As another one of yours so stated:..
In Jewish History, Jewish Religion,..Israel Shahak!...
Is it your education that makes you ignorant..or too much time with your nose in a book, banging your head on a wall?
Oh, spare me your vocabulary..it was amusing at first but has worn thin..you Nazis are a ‘one trick poney’!
TATA
As is your usual ‘schtick’..you took what I said out of context..therefore you have lost any modicum of credibility you might have had…
ISRAEL HAS NO RIGHT TO EXIST ON ANOTHER’S LAND..
ISRAEL HAS NO RIGHT TO EXIST ON PALESTINIAN LAND..
NOT NOW, NOT BEFORE, AND NOT IN THE FUTURE!
tata
Just in case you were to young to remember what the Israeli Nazis are capable of…...TATA
Militia boasts of role in Sabra massacre
By Inigo Gilmore in Beirut
10/30/05 “The Observer”——It was one of the most shocking massacres to scar the Middle East, the slaying of more than 2,000 Palestinians by Christian militiamen in the wretched Lebanese refugee camps.
Now a film has returned to the story of Sabra and Shatila. But for the first time it has told the story of the slaughter through the voices of the killers. In Massaker, six former Christian Phalange militiamen tell of their training by Israeli allies and recount the events of 16-18 September, 1982, when hundreds of Palestinian men, women and children were killed in the Beirut camps.
Although the identities of the men are disguised in the 90-minute documentary, they make no attempt to hide the gruesome details of the massacre, with some boasting about their killing skills with AK-47 assault rifles and butchers’ knives.
Several parts of the film assault the viewers’ senses, including one where a man describes how another militiaman, a butcher, took pleasure in carving up his victims. Another recalls how even the wails of old Palestinian women ‘left them cold’ as they systematically moved into the camps, tossed grenades into houses and sprayed rooms with gunfire, killing at close range.
The film is ground-breaking because it is the first time that members of the various militias involved in the 1975-90 civil war have spoken at length on film about what happened, particularly in such candid detail. It has been shown at festivals in 15 countries, and in France and Greece Massaker will go out on general release.
The directors say that they deliberately made a ‘politically incorrect’ choice in portraying the massacre from the perspective of the perpetrators. The characters are unpalatable and the directors hope not only to confront their audiences about the violence generally, but to tackle the Lebanese head-on about their past deeds.
One of the directors, Lokman Slim, says he hopes it can bring people together - if not to ‘reconcile’ them, then to educate them about chapters of their common history.
‘Personally I don’t think there are victims and perpetrators [in this conflict],’ said Slim at his office in south Beirut, a stronghold of the radical Hizbollah movement.
‘I think each perpetrator was a victim, because he was amputated from a part of his humanity, and this amputation makes him a killer ... If someone is at the same time a perpetrator and a victim, is he somehow less responsible for what he did? No. As long as we are not recognising what we did towards each other, we will never reach a point of real reconciliation.’
Only one of the six men interviewed shows any sign of remorse.
Some Lebanese have raised questions about the merits of the film, with one critic, writing in Beirut’s Daily Star newspaper, accusing the filmmakers of providing the killers with a platform from which ‘they make excuses for themselves and boast’.
The men interviewed in the film were loyal to Lebanon’s then new President, Bashir Gemayel, who was assassinated on 14 September, 1982, in an explosion at the Phalangist headquarters in east Beirut, a killing which has never been solved. A day later the Israeli army moved into west Beirut in violation of existing agreements.
continued:
continued from previous page::
Israel’s Defence Minister at the time, Ariel Sharon, authorised the entry of members of Gemayel’s Lebanese Forces (a Phalangist militia) and Saad Haddad’s South Lebanon Army into the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps, home to 30,000 Palestinians whose refugee families had moved to Lebanon in successive waves since 1948.
The camps had been sealed off by Israeli tanks. When the militiamen, who were worked into a frenzy after being told that the Palestinians were responsible for Gemayel’s killing, entered on the evening of 16 September, the only resistance they encountered was from a few lightly armed young men.
For the next 38 hours, the militiamen raped, tortured, mutilated and massacred civilians. The exact number killed is still not known. On 22 September the International Red Cross gave a figure of 2,400, but Palestinians claim more died.
One of the most controversial revelations in the film is the alleged extent of Israeli involvement in the preparation and execution of the operation, down to providing body bags before the killings began. ‘You’ll be needing these,’ one of the militiamen is told by an Israeli officer.
The single document probably most influential in directing George W. Bush
I think this thread has been changed and is now out of Israel…I might be wrong..but I don’t think so…
If you notice..our little Turdblossom is absent today..and the same old argument is getting boring…
I was glad to see at least one damn neocon indicted..now for the other 99 and we might have it under control…
Will they have to turn in ‘ALL’ their passports at their hearings, to keep them from fleeing to Israel??
..
I’m not a neo-con.
Stop spewing your propaganda.
prop
Hey Mr. Turd…
Israel has no right to exist..there was never an israel and there is no need for one now..So pack your bags..and hit the road…get a boat and drop anchor at the first port that will accept you…
TATA
Finkelsteins biggest supporter and advocate:
http://www.davidduke.com
That’s right. DAVID DUKE.
I made this propoganda myself. It only seemed apporpriate.
[IMG]http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a118/turdburgler/eichmanvsfinkelstein.jpg[/IMG]
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a118/turdburgler/eichmanvsfinkelstein.jpg
You’re useless!
you don’t even know who David Duke is….
You must be terrified of Norman Finkelstein,,,are you that terrified of Chomsky, Sy Hersh, Avi Shlame, and the Jews against Zionism?? YOu must be terrified of everyone who doesn’t think like you….so sad..really so sad…
TATA
You’re right. I’ve never met David Duke. I doubt you have either though.
51 Documents: Zionist Collaboration With the Nazis
Article/book #1179: 51 Documents: Zionist Collaboration With the Nazis
By: Lenni Brenner
Date of issue: November 2002
Abstract: From the book description: The Nazi era is the most discussed period in history, yet most Jews and other Americans are unaware of the interaction between Zionism and Hitler and Mussolini. The reason is simple and stark: the Zionist record is dishonorable. This book brings to light, through the use of actual historic documents, the disservice that the Zionists did to Jews before and during the Holocaust. Some of these documents were published in English decades ago, but are only now seeing the light of day. Others are being translated into English for the first time. Included are documents from Propaganda Minister Goebbels’ newspaper, Der Angriff, detailing an SS-man’s visit to Palestine as the Zionists’ guest. Readers will also learn about Adolf Eichmann’s account of his personal dealings with the Hungarian Zionist Rezs
I believe it was Finkelstein who started the name calling…
On Anti-Semitism
By Gilad Atzmon
10-20-4
It appears that Edithann is an agent of the Israeli machine. Her hate-filled anti-Zionist and anti-Israeli posts make many readers became strong supporters of Israel. So, I hope she continues with her vile diatribes, especially those against Jews and their religion… also a few fabricated quotes can be helpful…
The icing on the cake:
“you don
Oh Ariram..Is that a call for help??
foo funny, just too funny…
Yes, you will be attacked with everything I can find to show the world your evil message..be it in your religion or in your politics..they seem to be the same anyway…
So bring it on….and lets see who has the facts!
TATA
Ooooh! Ooooh! It’s Assram with a wicked judo move on Edithann….but….wait….Edithann isn’t there….and Assram falls heavily on his assram. Turdbooger….waiting in his corner for his chance to kick Edithann while she’s down….kicks Assram right in the neck. Ooooh! It’s getting wild in the ring folks….the crowd is rolling in the aisles!
In other news:
My conclusion is: the Internet has a civilizing influence on even braindead troglodytes. (don’t let me get in the way, people. The entertainment value is just too good)
Oh, what was that Ariram…a call for help with a ‘few fabricated quotes”???..I know you are asking for help..but help with ‘lies’...Is that how you manage to do it??? With ‘FABRICATED QUOTES’?? Now that is really scraping the bottom of the barrel….you are a sad specimen of a human being….needing to defend your posItion with ‘FABRICATED QUOTES!!!
Too funny, just too funny….
TATA
luminous beauty: are you mocking edithann and his cronies or did you get hit in the head with a blunt object this morning?
Edithann: Ariram was referring to the Ben-Gurion quote you made which is not real. Haha. Check your sources… try www.google.com
I don’t believe Ariram used any fabricated quotes… There is an Arafat quote you questioned that I posted. However, there is no proof its false anywhere that I can find.
again Edithann’s website:
www.davidduke.com
bravo, edithann; your bravery inspires the more timorous to bend courage in servitude to others, which according to sebastien junger, is the craton of heroism. and luminous beauty, your identity is condign…you are a source of luculence; the apodictic [true] definition of beauty is luminosity.
Thank you Tyrrhen for the compliment, and I’m sure it would be even more fun to read, if the topic wasn’t so serious…..
You must add more..and I certainly don’t mean by ‘fabricating” anything….Wasn’t that just too much??..
.
Oh, and I also appreciate your ‘Lewis Carroll’ use of language.
TA
Luminous Beauty who is so Gloriously Bright,
Thanks for the great story : Gift Of Insults . Will be saving that one to the hard drive.
Edithann,
You are a hero. Keep up the good work here.The Turdbungler is just stuck to your shoe. But don’t worry, shit washes off.
Tyrrhen,
Thanks for the vocabulary lessons.
Glad you guys are enjoying the fracas..
Can anyone imagine putting a name like ‘Turd’ out there to argue a case for Israel, or a case for anyone??...
Does anyone think it might be a Freudian slip??
Too funy, just too, too damn funny..
TA.
turd - A lump of excriment.
burglar - a person who attempts to enter a premises with the intent of committing a crime
You have suffered severe brain damage if you cant see the meaning of my handle. No one is born that dumb.
It’s mocking YOU. I didn’t ‘steal’ shit.
Send some money to David Duke’s campaign. He is the only politician I know of supporting this filth.
BTW Freud went out of style a long time ago.
You steal shit?
You are a shit stealer?
You are the filthy one. You mock yourself.
Israeli state terrorism….Isn’t this a war crime?? TA
Israeli clampdown amid rise in ‘sonic bombs’
Chris McGreal in Erez
Tuesday November 1, 2005
The Guardian
The Israeli defence ministry has barred foreign journalists from entering the Gaza Strip in an apparent attempt to limit reporting on the killing of Palestinian civilians, the firing of artillery shells and the use of “sonic bombs” to terrify the local population.
Over the weekend, Israeli air force jets caused two dozen sonic booms, many at night, which human rights groups have described as “terrifying collective punishment”.
The crossing post at Erez was closed after a suicide bomb last Wednesday in Hadera killed five Israelis. It was reopened yesterday to Palestinians with permits.
It is time to deal with Izraeli’s Lobby!
Lies of the White House gang about the Iraq were always transparent. But the biggest, and so far whispered only factor in this Iraqi/terrorism mess is virtual control of American Legislature, foreign policy and mass media by the Israeli partisans. Power of the Lobby shuts down any debate about the main (and stated by terrorists) cause of 9/11, which is occupation of the West Bank with US money and arms. 9/11 was in turn grabbed by the Lobby as an opportunity to destroy the most dangerous enemy of Israel - Saddam’s Iraq, as advocated by the familiar characters for years before 9/11. It is not a coincidence that the most vicious Iraq - bashers were Jewish: from Wolfowitz, Feith, Perle, Libby, and Abrams to Adelman, Brooks, Krauthammer, Safire, Judith Miller and Kristol, to name just a few of the countless activists. This fifth column must be exposed to prevent further damage to our treasure and life. Manipulation of intelligence and public opinion that went into this enterprise is nothing short of treason of historical proportions. And the Lobby was a crucial factor in ramming the war through. There were other powerful interests involved - emporium-builders/oil securing corporate types, crusaders and political opportunists like brains of our shrub. For the mass media overwhelmingly owned and staffed by the Lobby (vide NYT) a nice bonus was economic value of the reality show entitled The War. To paraphrase: Never in the history of the mankind, so many across the world did not suffer so much for so few (fanatic settlers) to gain so little (land and water of the West Bank). Sure, there will be still plenty to deal with, but you cannot start making any progress without decisively addressing that glaring injustice.
To supplement my earlier comment. The order of real drivers on Iraq war will always be debatable. But I would stick to my opinion that efforts of pro-Israeli activists on many fronts were the primary one. We should be hearing more of it if it is true that Fitzgerald is looking into Benjamin Franklin (accused Israeli spy) connection with Niger forgeries (www.dailykos.com/story/2005/10/19/145557/54).
Unfortunatelly, any discussion of the assertion that mass media are predominately owned and staffed by Jews immediately invokes accusations of anti-Semitism (just wait!). The problem is that this is a factual statement. It is a pity that only fringe groups (www.stormfront.org) dare to document it (or, conversely, anybody who tries, gets marginalized). Recommend a book by former congressman Paul Findley
Transatlantyk: excellent post ...
And we didn’t need a dictionary to decipher it…it was concise and exactly on point!
The hard part now is to pick up the pieces..put America back together better than it was, without catering to special interest goups, take back the media and, straighten out Israel once and for all.
Israel cannot be allowed to run roughshod over the world fermenting hatred and problems. It must not be allowed expansion and access to neighboring natural resources and the annnihilation of the Palestinians…....
They will just have to be content with the land given them by the UN..sans water and oil..and allow the Palestinians to live in peace…After all, the Palestinians have already accepted them..so aside from the rapacious greed of Israel for more of their land and resources..there is no need for continued support of anything ISRAELI!
tata
Trans..I’m sure you didn’t mean Benjamin Franklin as a possible Israeli spy?...One must be very careful of what one says..Things are always taken out of context to make their own points…I’m sure your aware of it..it’s their game!
TATA
I second and third all who call for a total withdrawl of U. S. support of Isreal. Those who steal the land of other, rightful occupants of that land have no right to gain from that act of theft. We need to abandon support for Isreal and tell the rest of the Middle East - ‘Have at ‘em boys’, and let them drive ALL the Jews there into the sea. For those who draw parallels to our treatement of Native Americans and what we should do about them, I say yes that is a problem. However, there are no living Native Americans holding deeds to land that was taken from them by white Europeans, and there are still Palestinians holding title to lands confiscated by Isreal.
Withdrawing our support of Isreal will help to restore the balance in the region to what it should be. Yes, it will hurt our efforts to control oil resources in the region and force up the prices we pay for oil. That would be a good thing to finally bring some sanity to our selfish, bloated and ruinous ways of living in the “modern” world. This gets into all other kinds of issues to be discussed other places, so I’ll leave it there.
truthteller, you are steller. tell us where to proceed. how do we redress the injustices, the heinous crimes that have been committed against the palestinians w/ mind-bludgeoning relentlessness for over 7 decades? be our cynosure, our pole star. i feel so helpless in this battle i’ve been involved in but losing since our family moved to jordan in 1988. here we are 17 years later, now working in egypt, and no progress has been made. in fact, the palestinians are suffering in an even more dispiteous state now than they were then. sanguinity is dying an anguished death.
truthteller:
I don’t mean to distract from your otherwise admirable screed, but I’ve had lots of personal contact with living Native Americans struggling to recover tribal lands deeded by treaty unilaterally abrogated by the US and various state governments. They’ve maybe had more success than the Palestinians, but still have a long path to walk.
But go on.
right you are, luminous beauty. during our regnancy in inuvik and tuktoyaktuk in the western arctic during the mid-‘80’s, we bore gratifying witness to the enormous strides being made by canada’s inuit and other ‘first nations’ under the COPE land claim settlements, wherein the canadian govt was compelled to return millions of sq.clix, as well as lucre, in compensation for what had been expropriated by us european defalcators. more compensation is to follow.
native americans get payed ‘reperations’ for the use of their land. they are not allowed to use large plots of the land apporpriated to them in certain states. This land is used for toxic waste dumping by the government and the natives are payed reperations. indeed we have a very racists government.
To say that our current administration’s policy is dictated by israel’s best interests would be moronic. They act only in the best interest of world trade. The 9-11 attacks weren’t on the israeli-american embassy. They were on the world trade building. Look at the history of american foreign policy. Look at an objective history of israeli foreign policy. To me you look like a bunch of racist yokels.
Go comment on david duke’s site.
Hey Turd:
Comparing the American Indian situation is another AIPAC retort to serious questions as to the legitimacy of Israel..and it doesn’t float..Although what we did is inexcusable..there are Tribes now who are very rich…So rich that one of yours just swindled millions from them…seems you all have a propensity to take what’s not yours..Anyway as you might not know Jack Abramhoff stole those millions to build and support illegal settlements in sunny old Israel..Abramhoff is the lobbyist who also is in deep doodoo with DeLay in laundering campaign money…and he is also involved in a murder in Miami..involving another swindle of a Casino Owner. I must say..you all do get around..
Oh, the American Sage was 300 years ago…No one in this day and age rolls up on any shores and declars a ‘NEW WORLD’..on land already inhabitied…It seems Israel is suffering from a case of arrested development…You can try to put forth that argument..but you will look ridiculous and really very stupid..
As for David Duke…You were the one who brought him up…so you debat it if you feel it’s necessary…But I would be careful…Israel seems to have learned all they know from the Nazis, the collective punishments..all the way to building mini concentration camps for their slow genocide of the Palestinians…...
There are no yokels here..only the ones defending the right of Israel to exist on the backs of the Palestinians…
TATA..
.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pine_Ridge_Reservation
Yes, native americans are bathing in riches. <-sarcasm
There were jews in palestine prior to large amounts of Jews emmigrating to the lands. The formation of Israel was sanctioned by the U.N. The Jews emmigrated to escape persecution, not to conquer the arabs for exploiting the land.
Why would they emmigrate to the desert if that was their purpose?
so you support david duke?
Hey Turd:
American Indians is not the subject..the subject is Israel…and the money we spend to suport your sorry asses..the money we send for you to brutalize the Palestinians, steal their homes, confiscate their land, destroy their social fabric, destroy their infrastructure..and perpetrate a slow, insidious genocide..so Israel can confiscate all their land..and truely make the ‘GOLDA GOLDIES..true…
Oh, that persecution crap is nonsense…everyone has been persecuted at one time or another..that doesn’t mean the world owed them someone else’s land…grow up..and get an adult argument…
you must read Finkelstein…you have a serious case of denial….
Changing the subject makes you look obvious!
.
I see you have a thing for david duke…
too funny, just too funny
TATA
All I can say to Truthteller, is hang in there..it will be a long hard pull, but you will eventually come out of it…Israel can’t last forever..they have no educational system to speak of..they have no industry., oil or water.. they have just about no economy but what we supply..and the religious nuts are taking over the government..so they can’t move much..
They have to create problems just to hold together.. .but they are falling apart, many Jews are leaving..there is no immigration to speak of….so the best we can do is bide our time..keep those deeds..and never, never, never give up…
It is always nice to be underestimated by your enemies. That is what the Arab states did in 1947-48 and in 1967 and ended up paying dearly for their mistake. As for
i didn’t change the subject to the native americans. It was brought up by someone else.
“There were jews in palestine prior to large amounts of Jews emmigrating to the lands. The formation of Israel was sanctioned by the U.N.”<- what about this?
U.S. GDP per capita -> $42,367
Israeli GDP per capita -> $22,944
Jordan GDP per capita -> $$4,427
Syria GDP per capita -> $1,378
Egypt Net migration: -0.22 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2005 est.)
Israel Net migration: 0 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2005 est.)
As for the educational system… I believe Neve Gordon, the author of this very article, teaches at a school in Israel.
Well Assram & Turd:
Yes the UN sanctioned Israel, and you’ve been trying to destroy it ever since..Israel has almost 300 violaitons including Human Rights violations…so what about that?
You spout the same old tired Israeli arguments with not an ounce of facts to substantiate your claims…yes..there were all those people migrating to Israel..BUT HOW MANY HAVE LEFT??
More are leaving every day,,MORE LEAVING THAN ARRIVING.
I love it that you are taking in the Ethopians…They are the bottom of the rung, you need bodies to justify your claims..otherwise the whole damn place would be one big settlement.and you know it!...
Tell me true:..would you allow your daughters to marry one of them??? .
I understand a lot of Jewish Zionist girls from the US and Israeli girls find Ethopian Jews attractive,, I hear that the American Zionists are running in droves to marry Ethopian Jews…to show they aren’t prejudiced or racist..and are willing to make any sacrifices for Israel…...Is that true??? What do their Rabbis say about that??Do they arrange those marriages also??...I also understand, and it was in Haaretz, that the Rabbis make the arrangements for the marriages..even if the girls are underage, and in opposition to their parents…...How did those Rabbis get so much power?? ..
It’s all just too funny..just too, too funny….
The Israeli educational system in on a par with the 3rd world internationally..they are ranked 34th after Thailand….If it wasn’t for American money..Israel would have no economy at all…The US just banned Israel from selling arms to Venezuela…first China now Venezeual…pretty soon you will have to eat all those arms…
Who cares who teaches in Israel..you need more than Neve Gordon….you need to teach something useful…instead of that Vile Talmud..That’s just a manual for crime..how to do it, and who to do it to ...etc…
You can’t sell that usless, overworked, time worn ‘SCHTICK’ anymore..it’s not selling…
TATA..
Israel is ranked 23.
http://hdr.undp.org/reports/global/2005/pdf/HDR05_HDI.pdf
thailand is ranked 73.
I know nothing of arranged marriages in modern times… The grooms were of the same age as the bride.
That’s not true..look up the educational standings in Haaretz…they are below Thailand…
And the girls were underage..and you didn’t answer the question of your prejudices towards other Jews..namely the Ethopian Jews…but you are so willing to drag them out for propaganda purposes….You are too much
...Don’t you know that half truths..are lies…don’t you know that deliberate omissions are lies…oh, I forgot..you get your rules from the Talmust..the “crime manual”...forget it…I stand corrected..you don’t know that half truths are
lies…you just lie!
And anyway..even if all you say was true..and it’s not…that still wouldn’t justify Israeli’s existance…you could all do the same thing in the new Diaspora…There never was a reason for an Israel, and there certainly is not a reason now..never was and never will be…..
TATA
TATA
my prejudice towards ethiopean jews? I have no prejudice. What about you? When did I use them for purposes of propaganda?
Give me a link to your alleged rankings at haaretz… There is no such document at the haaretz website.
I gave you a verifiable link from the source of my information.
The girls AND boys were underage. Prove otherwise.
This filth that is spat from your viale mouth is blatant anti-semitism. You have nothing to back up your argument other than information from purely anti-semetic sources. Find some information that is verifiable and objective.
there is only one eidolon of truth that matters in this embittered polemic… the PRESENT… it is the present US/israeli-induced dystopia in which the brutalized palestinians struggle to survive, so eloquently described by finkelstein, that every humanitarian’s conscience must address. and it must be addressed by everyone w/ a shred of misericordia [compassion and mercy] before israeli troops jack-boot their way thru gaza and what remains of palestine’s west bank. now that all the jewish settlers have been summarily and safely extracted from gaza, the israeli genocide of gazan palestinians has kicked into high-gear. soon it will be too late. and still the media will suppress the evidence of this genocide. the israeli/zionist propaganda machine will ensure that velleity and unapologetic mendacity prevail.
palestinians play war games with the israelis.
there is a cause and effect involved in the actions of palestinian rebels. Militant dissenters, jewish or otherwise, from inside the israeli state would be treated in a similar manner as would those in any other modern state. Palestine is not a sovereign nation for a reason. Militant dissenters from inside the Palestinian state are not treated in this manner. Until this changes little progress can be expected in terms of their statehood.
Israeli reaction to Palestinian militants has nothing to do with ‘Zionism’. It is merely to preserve the Israeli state. In order for Palestine to achieve its independence, it must first and foremost seek to preserve an organized free government capable of maintaining order, self-preservation, and lobbying for change in Israeli foreign policy. It will NEVER achieve this if Palestinians continue to seek an end to the means via militant action against Israeli civilians.
It is only dystopian if you are swimming against the current.
Turn around. You’re going the wrong way.
The educational figures were in Haaretz..you look it up!
As for anti-Semitism…I think any criticizm of anything Israeli is Anti-Semitism..and especially someone who doesn’t by your propaganda on the wonders of Israel..
.
We feed your sorry asses, keep your IDF brutalizing the Palestinians, pay for your stealing of Palestinian land and your slow genocide of the Palestinian people..and you have the nerve to call anyone anti-semitc??
You are anti-American, anti- Goy, anti-Gentile…and anti-Arab..is there anyone else on the planet you hate??
Too funny, you are just too funny….
TATA
TATA
Hey Turd:
You do not have the world backing you..only us..I think it is you who had better turn around..because we will not be watching your back for long….Your neocon days are numbered..or hadn’t you noticed!
TATA
I think the hope for a change in U. S. policy towards Isreal lies with the attitudes of working class Americans, especially in the Black community. I hold an industrial, union covered job on the U. S. East Coast, and many, if not most of the African-Americans I work with are sympathetic to the Palestinian cause. From their history they understand oppression and know it when they see it. They are also generally untrusting of our Government’s motives in general, and are among the most likely to see and believe in the Zionist control of our media and politics.
I also see hope in the writings of some progressive authors and talk radio hosts like Stephanie Miller, Jeannene Garafalo, and Thom Hartmann, who have all questioned our uncritical support for Isreal.
I’m an American you racist moron. You are clearly anti-semitic if you believe zionists are in control of the american political system and the media.
Why do you think Finklestein makes his books so short?
He’s targeting the illiterate. This comment section has made that fairly clear.
As for your African American friends sympothizing with the Palestinians… Does your job require that the employees be beat with blunt objects over the head?
Bob Marley=zionist
There is still a Raggae zionist movement. In fact there are some upcoming shows where I live in Cali…
Under Arab society the Jews are a subjugated minority.
and as far as who won this argument… it was over a LONG time ago: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin’s_law
Try and say anything on a call-in show on most radio or TV outlets in this Country that is in opposition to Isreal and see how long it takes you to get cut-off (C-SPAN may be one major exception). I heard Stephanie Miller being called every kind of racist, anti-Semitic thing possible one day by a Jewish listener for being critical of Isreal. There is definitely a concerted and coordinated effort in the media to stifle pro-Palestinian/anti-Isreali commentary.
I very much resent the implication of illiteracy. I hold a Bachelor’s degree in Political Science from a major American public University, and have been a political activist just about my entire adult life.
I don’t think most of my black aquaintances are all that political, but they do know unfair treatment and oppression when they see it, and they see it in Isreal’s treatment of Palestinians.
Hey Turdie:
No, you are not an American, you are a Dual Loyalist..an Israeli Firster and an American Traitor..just like your buddy Johnathn Pollard and the neocons who will be joining Pollard soon I hope!....
I’m the American..You are not!
Finkelstein is not appealing to the Illiterate..He is showing you and the Dershowitz zionist followers just how devious and evil you all are…and how you hound someone and villify them for telling the truth…
Besides yourself and Assram..who else has been championing your cause?? too funny….
I love when you display some comparison crap..first it’s the American Indians, now it’s Bob Marley and of course there is always the Arabs…and my response to that is SO WHAT’S YOUR POINT?? SPELL IT OUT..SO WE CAN ALL SEE YOUR RACIST THINKING….SO WHAT?????????
As I said..would any Jew in Israel or all those Kibbutz’s ask their Rabbi permission to marry an Ethopian Jew..for Israel??
Too funny…you are just too funny..but never forget..BREEDING WILL OUT.. and you are proof positive!
TATA
Both comparisons were made by anit-Israeli posters. I was merely illustrating both comparisons to be completely and utterly invalid. What’s YOUR point?
I was born in Florida. That makes me an American.
Is calling someone a Nazi vilification? I’m not sure. What do you think?
Would I marry an ethiopian jew? I probably would if I fell in love. Would I have to ask my rabbi? I don’t have a rabbi.
what exactly does “BREEDING WILL OUT” mean? I’m not an english major, but it appears to me that doesn’t make too much sense.
Truthteller: Under Arab society the jews are the subjigated minority. I’m not sure that you understand the meaning of this, so I will rephrase it. Jewish people are oppressed in an Arab society. Much like African Americans are oppressed in American society.
An article not to miss…TATA
http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=7908
Ignorance is the last refuge of the scoundrel. In this case of the vile anti-Semitic scoundrel.
The way Edith speaks about the Jewish religion, the Talmud and how the Jews rule the world, betrays typical, classic anti-Semitism. But of course, here the extreme hatred to Israel blinds many to see this blatant anti-Semitism. Criticism of Israel
Well Turdie & Assram:..
You are lying again….Jews were never oppressed in Arab society..In fact they were respected and accepted..for hundreds of years, lived comfortably and prospered…...
They only became oppressed when the Zionists decided they were all to move to Israel after the war….and Israeli terrorist gangs started their secret terror campaign of harassment of the Arab governments making it uncomfortable for them to stay in the counties they had inhabited for hundreds of years…Remember Turd, half truths are lies..you didn’t tell the whole truth.!
To make the comparison of Jews living in Arab countries for centuries as the Negros here in the South in the early days….is really shameful of you…it’s not true..any of it..
It’s all a lies..Either you don’t know your history..or you are deliberatly telling lies….as usual..it’s telling lies….
Yes I will attack your religion..because the roots to the worlds problems and the centuries of Pariah status Jews have held in the world, can be found in the pages of that vile Talmud..and the fairytale Torah…
That is also why the govt. of Uzbekistan was insistent that the headl Rabbi turn over the ‘TAYNA’..a derivative of that vile Talmud..to finally see what was written and, to find out the indoctrination the Jewish congregations were getting…something analogues to what the Israeli’s keep doing in translating Arab Sermons…
And it not only took the local Rabbi but the Israeli government to intervene and stop the turnover…..so the material was never revealed…
Now the logical questoin would be..what was in that liturgy that was so secret? That no one else could see it??
Well some of those secrets can be found in Jewish History, Jewish Religion..by Israel Shahak..an Israeli scholar..who lays out how much the Jews are taught to hate gentiles…
and how that ‘shtick’ of calling someone an anti-Semite seems to stop one in their tracks…
But they didn’t reckon on Edithann….so you can stick that anti-Semitic crap..up your you know where!.....
There is nothing anti-Semitic about anything I’ve written…is it anti-Semitic not to like you because your a dual loyalist? Is it anti-Semitic to want all aid to Israel stopped?? Is it anti-Semitic to want to see Israel in the very mini concentration camps they are building for the Palestinians???
..Get off that old tired mantra of ‘classic anti-Semitism…there never was such a thing..it’s always been more classic Zionist Propaganda.
BREEDING WILL OUT! and in your case it’s in ‘spades’!
TATA
and as to your inquiries about the jewish texts. You are completely correct in you charges that they contain plans of world domination. haha… I WILL RULE THE WORLD!
Hey Turdie..
When you are a minority in a country…you are a minority!..Just as the Israeli Arab is a minority..with the same discriminations by the Israeli’s…and much worse..they also are not allowed to build, and are thoroughly discriminated against by the Israeli judicial system..
Using your same arguments, then the Israeli Arabs have a good case for their own Homeland..can we say it’s already Palestine??.
Seems as though you aprove of the same the same kind of discrimination on others as you’ve lamented for the poor Jewish minorites in the Otto.Empire…...It’s odd that you don’t recognize it! I would call that extremely hypocritical wouldn’t you???...Oh, do you allow Isaeli Arabs to have arms?? Too funny, just too funny!
Can we say the collective punishments of the Palestinians, by the Israelis is analogous to the Nazis?? Just another reminder of your lies on just about every subject!..
The Ottomans were always accepting of Jews…Your propaganda is in reaction to the fact that Jews were never able to become part of the ruling class…and were kept in their places as merchants and businessmen..and not involved in the political process..it seems Arabs were smarter..and never gave you all a chance to start trouble…....You forget, it was precicesly those reasons they were kicked out of Spain..oh, and other Europen countries…The Diaspora was a continuing caravan..did you ever ask yourselves why???
You must read more history..your way off the mark!
Oh, if they were so put upon as you say, there would have been a constant migration out of the Arab countries..and that was never the case! In fact it wasn’t until the new emerging Israeli Terrorist gangs that finally made it necessary for Jews to leave Arab counties..The intention was to have all Jews in Arab countries move to Israel..and it took the Irgun, the Stern gang, and others Israeli Terrorist gangs..to accomplish it because most Arab Jews didn’t want to leave…the Zionists made it uncomfortable for them to stay with their constant ‘false flags’, instigating assassinations and bombings…and the Jews who had lived for centuries peacefully in Arab countries, no longer felf safe..it was all a Zionist set up, and documented..One has only to read BenGuerion’s papers…
Remember, it was the European Jews who were constantly kicked out..for legitimate reasons of always overstepping their boundaries as guests…You all never did know how to be ‘good’ guests…that’s one of the glaring facts that prove the point of BREEDING WILL OUT!
The Talmud is the crime manual and laws pertaining to same…The Protocols, as you’ve referenced…is the history and agenda of world Jewery. Centuries old historical facts and reputations was enough material to put documented historical facts to paper and reach obvious conclusions..
.It wasn’t rocket science then and it’s not rocket science now…
Just look at the facts man, just the facts…HOWEVER, not your faux facts…HISTORICAL DOCUMENTED FACTS OF PEOPLE LIKE FINKELSTIEN, ISRAEL SHAHAK, CHOMSKY, HERSH, SHARETT, AND COMPARE THEM TO YOUR OWN! ETC.,ETC., ETC….
TATA
Do Finkelstien and Chomsky make references to the “protocols”? bwhahaha
too funny.
most of the ‘protocols of the elders of zion’ were plagiarized from works by Maurice Joly and Eugene Sue. It’s odd Sue’s work was critical of Jesuits and the french monarchy. This is documented fact. That was sarcasm where I stated my plans to rule the world. I was mocking you. You should seek therapy. You are illustrating paranoid and deluded thoughts.
Palestinian sovereignty is not an issue of race, religion, or nationality in my eyes as I stated before. The government there is not stable. Those in ‘power’ do not protect their power. The state is not self-sustaining. The government does not seek to eliminate militant groups that threaten its very existence. It would not be intelligent to give Palestine full sovereignty at this point. There would be a substantial loss of life from the war that would result from such a decision.
You are correct in you assertion that I am not in charge of Israeli gun laws (or did you mean appendages?)
As for the minority argument… It appears to me the jewish people of Israel are still a minority in the middle east.
Hey Turdie:
Now you qualifying you remarks with ‘In my eyes’..too funny..just too funny….
What makes you think your mocking was un-noticed..It was so stupid I just chalk it off to an idiot trying to be funny! I think you give yourself too much credit where it’s not warranted..
I just ignore most of your propaganda..without you crying persecutions and minority status ..you would have nothing to say at all!
As for the Protocols..as I’ve already stated..makes no difference who wrote it, even if it was plagiarized..(we know all of Dershowitz’s book was plagiarized from faux facts by a faux author on Israel) and oddly, it was all the same crap you’ve been touting as fact word for word…. Finkelstein cleaned his clock..just as I’m doing with you!
Mocking…..too funny, too damn funny….
When you start saying something that hasn’t already been written in a script extolling the virtues of Israel..you might be taken seriously..but everyone has heard all your stuff over the years adnauseam….And they’ve all been disproven…
You are just not with it old boy.!..
Too funny…just too funny
TATA
I qualified it with ‘in my eyes’ as you were refering to my views on the palestinian issue. You were putting words into my mouth…
as for your retort… all I can say is this:
You have brain damage. Seek therapy.
Hey Turdie:
Now you are as expert on mental health as you are on Israeli history…Too funny, you are really a riot…
I have yet to meet a stupid Jew..who didn’t think he was a shrink..and qualified to question someone mental health because they didn’t buy his line of lies…now that’s really a scream….I would call that ANTI-CIVIL LIBERTIES..
You know the Russians put dissidents in mental hospitals all the time, and they were always ‘right!.....is that also an Israel tactic?? Seems all anti-Israeli’s are nuts…
Too funny, just too funny…
I guess you have no more lies to put out..so
TATA
Turdie:
YOu seem to be so lacking on Israeli facts..I think you might find the following enlightening…but then, you might think it’s a lie..but then what the hell do you know anyway….anyway, read it and then we may discuss….TATA
http://www.chss.montclair.edu/english/furr/essays/rokach.html
eximious edithann! thank you for directing my attention to the montclair edu. site; i plead nescience about shaaret’s diaries ..... monumental negligence on my part. his diaries should be on the required reading list of every american and canadian high school history class, as well as every university poli sci class. it begs the impugnation no one dares whisper but sub-consciously suspects… the deliberate involvement of israeli machinations and subterfuge in the 9/11 incursions.
Tyrrhen..there is much more proof of the same caliber out there and it should be spread out through as many channels as possible..For too long the Zionists and their Diaspora supporters have had a free reign on our media for their own brand of Propaganda..and it must be stopped because it’s been all lies from the earliest…
It is necessary to spread this information as often as possible….the true information of the Zionists and their Agenda..history and all..
It’s not necessary to go into the legal aspects of those Protocals..the truth from former prime ministers of that vile Israel should be enough..the truth is always enough..it’s just a matter of getting it out there ‘ALL THE TIME’..and never let them have the last word on any of it!
TA.
You reference a 63 page ‘book’.
Where are the peer reviews?
Where is Moshe Sharrett’s diary?
All I can find are other articles that reference the Rokach ‘book’. In 25 years no one else has written a single article referencing his diary? It seems if this was verifiable reputable information there would have been a deluge of analysis following the publishing of Moshe Sharett’s diary in 1979.
as you exhort, edithann… zionist duplicity and israeli dissembling in the media [which they gained suzerainty over decades ago] must be divulgated, tirelessly and relentlessly. during our years in jordan in the late 80’s ~ early 90’s, i feverishly turned out 3/4-paragraph articles and letters-to-the-editors of hundreds of newspapers and rags in the US, in an effort to disseminate the truth about what was really unfolding during palestine’s initial intifadah, w/ eye-witness accounts of israeli brutality, torture, and murder, w/ their lethiferous ‘rubber bullets’ aimed at children… yes CHILDREN, many of whom carried not even a pebble in their hands, never mind rocks, yet were summarily dispatched into a state of permanent bone-smashed disability by the butt-ends of machine gun-toting israeli troops. i witnessed these children die before my eyes, children whose families had managed to bring them across the border into jordan where our over-subscribed hospitals struggled to provide the medical care for them the israelis denied them, either by bombing palestinian hospitals or barring access routes to them. needless to say, the no. of letters/articles i sent that were actually published in the press was nugatory in the extreme. i was so frustrated, i beseeched my sister in pennsylvania to print hundreds of leaflets for me and distribute them by hand wherever there was no proscription against unsolicited material. the outrage and anguish has not palliated w/ time.
tURDIE:
Look them up yourself..it’s you who are defending the Israeli position..and refuse to read any other views on the topic..so the diaries are out there..do your own research…
As for peer reviews…look up Dershowitz for a peer review..I’m sure he can find something for you IN TIME IMMEMORIAL..too funny, ..you’re both ‘birds of a feather’..One lies..and all the rest all swear to it!
TATA
TATA
Dear Tyrrhen:
Yes the problem of getting information out of Israel and Palestine has been terrible..Israel had all the lines of communications controlled..and so only their lines of propaganda got out..However thanks to the INternet..those days are gone forever..that’s why there are people like Turd and Assram on all discussoin boards just trying to stem the tide.But ou notice..when it comes to facts..they back off..just as Assram has..and Turdie has changed his tune…
.Everything is getting out..and it’s harder and harder for them to keep up with all the lies…just as it’s harder and harder for them to claim all that endless anti-Semitism…who cares about it anymore??..I certianly don’t!..And everyone I know seems to think it’s badge of honor now to be called an anti-Semite..Their racism know’s no bounds. And they are taught to hate from childhood…and that can also be proven..it’s all in their TALMUD..and TANYA…
They have lost their place as worlds victims….they themselves are the villains and scourge of the world..and must be stopped…
So keep on writing..and get on as many bloggs and discussion groups as you can…to thwart all of them…and especially the American Zionist Traitors..
TATA
be assured edithann, i will persevere in this mission until senectitude and my deliquescing digits render me a dysfunctional, otiose blog-of-ineptitude… and even then i will persist.
My dear Tyrrhen:
I’m sure you will keep on and that’s most heartening…
However I would suggest you don’t make your writing so esoteric. I know you are having fun with the language..and it certainly fun to read..but keep in mind; we are trying to reach all peoples..and to make our points and arguments easy and simple to grasp…
Don’t forget;..the Israeli’s have had a very good head start..So we must do all we can to catch up…
TATA
Hey Turdie and Assram…
Just another little something..that should brighten up your day!
http://antiwar.com/justin/
I didn’t swear to anything edithann. What about you?
You rely purely on ad hominem attacks.
I will repeat this. There are no other analysis of Moshe Sharett Diary supporting the “Livia Rokach” ‘book’. There is not even a single peer review supporting her thesis. This is blatant black propaganda. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_propaganda
Turdie..
I think his diaries might be difficult to get..I think the Israeli’s have made sure of that..They have a way of making pertenant information scarce..but with enough effort, I’m sure you can get your hands of something…Go to your local library..and get them for yourself or get them through the inter-library system….Oh, and while your at it..I would suggest you ask for the diaries of Moshe Dyan..I think you will also find those diaries interesting….especially the ones closer to his death..He seemed to have changed a little there at the end and became more introspective..and not quite the barbarian butcher he was as a young Turk!
It’s so like you all, always wanting someone else to do your work for you…Unless you are crippled..you can do it yourself…I have not made an ad hominem attacks..I state facts..facts to which you haven’t been able to refute..
I really don’t care whether you take it as fact or not…I do..and so do many others, in fact all of academia has accepted it…and that’s all that’s important…
Just as that Talmud is a vile ‘hate’ manual…I believe it…and so do many more….If you can show where it’s not true..and you weren’t brainwashed as a child to ‘hate’ all goys and gentiles..please put it on..were all here waiting…
TATA
TATA
Edith will not tecognize a “fact” even if it hits her in the face.
I expect any day now to see Edith burning the Talmud, just like her predecessors (Spanish inquisition, the Nazis and the like ) did in the past. I will wager that if she asks her heroes (Fin
kelstein and Homsky), if the Talmud is a
Just consider the following a PUBLIC SERVICE MESSAGE…..Tata
http://counterpunch.com/halper11072005.html
Hey Assran..
Why are you always talking about me..I never talk about you, I’m not interested in you at all..only in the propaganda you have yet to defend..
..You haven’t said anything on the topic..Don’t worrry about your precious Talmud..I wouldn’t burn it..I would do what they did to the Quran in Gitmo…I’d pee on it…page by page!
Until it was a nice yellow..and then I’d burn in on synagoguge steps….Because it’s the book that’s responsible for making you all vile human specimens..
http://www.wrmea.com/backissues/031885/850318011.html
“It
Hey Turdie…look what I came across..
Oh, and I don’t care about any of your not accepting what I say..I certainly don’t accept anything what-so-ever that you say..because I know you all lie…and have lied for centuries about anything and everything…
I think you all might enjoy the following…but pay particular attention to the last paragraph of his quotes..He says it all there..oh, and all can be gotten on Google…it’s a gold mine of information…even stuff you don’t want ‘OTHERS’ to know about..especially that TALMUD..
I don’t think I’ll ever get over a book that has 619 laws to keep you all in line..boggles the mind..Hey Assram:can you pee without trasgressing or violating a law???
I bet not!!! too funny, just too damn funny….
http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Famous-Zionist-Quotes/Story639.html
Have fun…TATA
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/customer-reviews/071468063X/ref=cm_cr_dp_pt/103-1788485-8131000?_encoding=UTF8&n=283155&s=books
erm… Please stop posting long since exposed mis-information and propoganda.
Oh, that’s rich..you a nice big brown Turd, of all people talking about mis-information and propoganda!...Just your defense of Israeli’s existance in propaganda at it’s height…
Forget it..if you don’t want to read it..just don’t!...
But I will put everything and anything I can to show to the world the evil you all have perpetrated on the Palestinians…..and especially the Jewish cabal that is running for cover now in DC…
I trust you have already read J. Raimondo’s article on that False Intelligence which got us into Iraq for Israel…It seems all the info goes right to the Israeli doorstep…so have a good evening…and enjoy all my so factual information…I see you have none to counter….
Too funny, just too funny…
TATA
.
Hey turdie..Here is another so called Propaganda…
http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Famous-Zionist-Quotes/Story697.html
another truth….
http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/content.php?pg=11
http://www.counterpunch.org/halper11072005.html
Partial list of Neocon (Jews) 5th column of influential Jews who have managed to get America to go to war for Israel…
Would one think this is anti-semitic? would one think this might create a backlash for Jews? Would one think these Jews have brought it on themselves? Would one think this is a repeat of centuries of Jewish history? I certainly would!
TATA
Commentary founder and editor Norman Podhoretz;
Irving Kristol, former Commentary editor and founder of The Public Interest;
Elliot Abrams, head of the Middle East Desk of the National Security Council and Podhoretz’s son-in-law;
Douglas Feith, Undersecretary of Defense and one of the architects of the occupation of Iraq;
Paul Wolfowitz, former Deputy Secretary of Defense now heading the World Bank;
Richard Perle, former Chairman of the Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board;
William Kristol, son of Irving, co-founder of the Project for a New American Century;
Daniel Pipes, Middle East Studies professor and founder of the notorious CampusWatch;
Charles Krauthammer, Washington Post columnist;
Dov Zakheim, former Comptroller of the Separtment of Defense;
David Wurmser, Cheney’s chief Middle East advisor;
Kenneth Adelman, a hawkish arms control expert and senior Pentagon official.
It seems that those French riots might be just another one of those provocative Mossad False flags, to which we’ve become so accustomed….have fun…TATA
http://www.rense.com/general68/french.htm
The discussion here is very sad. I really enjoy In These Times, but it upsets me to no end that the Zionist movement is being blamed here. What should be blamed are the policies of specific Israel governments (if you disagree with them) or particular US neocons who yes, happen to be Jewish. I am Jewish, consider myself antiwar and progressive on social/economic issues, and identify strongly with the state of Israel. So criticize the policies of Sharon, Bush, et. al all you wish, but don’t blame Zionism for human rights violations occurring in the Middle East. These problems are the fault of political elites, NOT the inevitable result of a broad ideological movement to ensure a homeland for the Jewish people in their ancestoral homeland.
I read The Case for Israel and was disappointed by the lack of supporting evidence for Dersh’s many claims. But the knee-jerk anti-Zionism (notice I didn’t say anti-Semitism, which means something different) on display here is hateful—not progressive in spirit.
Yes, I agree, the discussions here are very sad..But you are in denial if you think Zionism isn’t to be blamed..To say it’s the fault of certain specific Israeli governments is a simple cop out of responsibility…
You forget, there really was and is no justification for a Jewish Homeland superimposed on Palestinian land in the 20/21 century…If you can explain that one point, with justification then maybe there can be a dialogue..but until you can address that fact..then all your points are moot..
.
What gave Israel the right to exist? what gave Israel the right to take Palestine? what gives the right of Israel to continue it’s occupation?
This is not a knee-jerk anti-Zionist position..it’s an honest question requiring an honest answer…
.
One cannot consider himself antiwar, progressive on any social/economic issues or levels when the basic premise is built on lies, torture, assassinations, and a willful political base of ethnic cleansing…
Edith, I’m sure you would like to moderate this debate and define its terms, but that’s not what a discussion is about. It would seem you are holding Israel to a higher standard that the US. I would answer your questions by saying: what gave the US to exist? What gave the Europeans colonists the right to take the land of the native Americans? What gives the US government the right to continue its occupation? What gave the US the right to ethnically clense the Native population? Can one consider oneself antiwar, progressive, etc and support the existance of the US, rather than criticize the Bush, Clinton administration?
I’m sure you think this is a cop out, but it is reality. What would you propose for a solution to the fact that large parts of the US are actually occupied territories of Mexico? Should we demand the US government give it back?
The bottom line is that Israel won its right to self determination through the UN and is recognizied as a soverihn nation but pretty much every country besides Iran and many Leftists. Do you not recognize the leegitimacy of the UN? Or just some of its resolutions (those that condemn Israel?)
If you reject the existance of Israel, why do you not similarly reject the soverignty of the US? This is an honest question and deserves an honest answer.
My dear Steven..your argument about what America did 300 years ago..is the standard ‘GOLDEN GOLDA” line or propaganda reasoning but it doesn’t float in the present world..Hadn’t you noticed…there is no colonialism anymore and hasn’t been now for a hundred years..so your argument is out of date..the only colonization today, is the creeping Israeli colonization and confiscation of Palestinian land.
Although you think you deserve an answer for your outworn, outdated analogy on US sovereignty you conveniently ignored my questions as to WHY THERE SHOULD BE AN ISRAEL ON PALESTINIAN LAND?
TA
No colonization in the past 100 years? So is that what the statute of limitations is? I didn’t realize. So I guess in 2105, Israel will be in the clear by your standards. Or will it take 300 years…I’m really not clear. Any new country by your definition is a colonizer, so I guess we magically reached the point 100 years ago where no new countries could exist.
I conveniently ignored your questions? you conveniently ignore mine! Do you support the existance of the US? So you win because you asked me first? That’s 3rd grade logic at best.
“Don
Well, I guess you can’t discuss anything because my mind is made up?..Could it be you have no argument to substantiate your position…..I know your mind is already Zionist. I don’t think you are impossible to talk to…but apparently you can’t seem to get your point across to me…
Could that be because you really have no legitimate argument to substantiate your claim to Palestine land?
And that ‘Golden Golda’ script about the American Saga just didn’t sell, and you have no other argument??...Is that the only justification you can find? Sad I would say….
Just think about it..I asked the simple question ‘WHY DOES ISRAEL HAVE THE RIGHT TO EXIST ON PALESTINE LAND.. apparently either you can’t answer that question honestly..or you refuse to answer because there is no RIGHT FOR ISRAEL TO EXIST ON PALESTINIAN LAND..
and you have a difficult time defending the position…
If you know in your heart you are in the right..I certainly wouldn’t let anyone dissuade me from my point..but I notice..there isn’t a Zionist who can defend that position.
So if you can’t defend it with pride and a clear heart..you know that you have no right to the land…and you are complicit in a monumental theft and tragedy…...
Of course there are some people out there who love Israel, as there are ‘more’ people out there who love Palestine..do you think those people might be the ones whose homes have been stolen, lands confiscated and the ones now finding themselves refugees in their own lands?? And then there are the interned already in the Israeli mini concentration camps being built for the ones who didn’t run away???
Yes, you are right..there is nothing else to discuss because you have no legitimate argument..except the same old, same old tired Israeli Propaganda Line the world has heard ad nauseam….which still hasn’t made the claim to any of Israeli legitimacy..
As for that Talmud..I think you might read it from the ‘OTHERS’ point of view… of what it reveals to the faithful, and then maybe you might understand why you have had the same centuries old reputations..
I find that it’s almost impossible that you are incapable of understanding how we ‘OTHERS’ view the same situations..
But then you can’t understand ‘WHY OTHERS CAN’T UNDERSTAND WHY ISRAEL HAS NO RIGHT TO EXIST ON PALESTINIAN LAND!
I also wish you well.
TATA
Edithan:
Are you retarted or something?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaii
50th state as of 1959.
American orchestrated coup d’etat in 1893.
Jews were a subordinate minority in the middle east. Israel was created essentially as a giant refuge camp for jewish people. Mostly because people like you don’t take to kindly to jewish folks.
There was a jewish population in Jerusalem since antiquity. To say they had no right to exist there is ingorant. To say that they have less justification than America does for their attrocities is compeletly irrational and insane.
Please give a sound explanation as to why Israel does not have the right to exist. Simply stating that it is Palestinian land does not suffice.
You seem to have a difficult time defending your position. So much so that you constantly reference outlandish conspiracy theory websites that are reminiscent of www.davidduke.com
Oh, If it isn’t Turdie!..
Well, where have you been? I thought you had retired from the fight..but I see, you are defending the position again..you must be a glutton for punishment….....
Of course there was a Jewish population in Jerusalem since antiquity..Jews have been around in just about everyplace on the planet for a long, long time and consistantly thrown out as many times….They were even in Egypt if you recall. Up until they were told to leave and given a huge amount of gold to do so..all of which they were able to build that Golden Calf’ to worship while Moses was up in the hills chiseling out those tablets he was ready to palm off on those calf worshipers!.........
So why aren’t you claiming Egypt? In fact, I would think Jews have more of a right to some parts of Egypt than they have to Palestine. They supposedly were there longer, and should have at least earned squatters rights. But as usual, you all did something to make the Egyptians thow you out again..but this time, they were so anxious for you to leave..they even paid you from their treasurey…
As you all wandered those 40 years you then coveniently tripped over Palestine for the first time..only that time it was called Canaan.and proceded to do to them what you’ve been trying for 60 years to do to them today…..I think you had better read your history old boy..you are way off the beatten desert track!..
As for being retarded..I think you should think twice about calling names…Calling names is the sign of desperation in a lost argument…and it’s certainly not becoming…...tsk, tsk..you don’t seem to know much about your own history now do you??I mean the real history, not the romantic fairy tales you learn in Hebrew School..I mean the truth about your history that negates all that ‘special’ garbage you’re made to believe, when the real truth is you are the same ancient thieves you’ve always been.
.I can’t believe I might know more about you, than you?? Too funny, just too funny…..
I see you are still in love with David Duke…I think maybe you have a thing with him..well get over it..If you can’t fight your battles without using outside stupid references, you shouldn’t be in this fight at all!
I have already stated why Israel has no right to exist…Now if you don’t remember..then just read my last few posts..
However, you still haven’t given me a good reason why you think Israel ‘SHOULD’ exist on Palestine land..Especially since it was already inhabited by the Palestinians, but don’t forget, this is the second time you all are claiming that same piece of land and .from the same indigenous peoples.
So why couldn’t you keep it the first time you stole it.??..Don’t you know that repetition is the sign of never having learned your lessons the first time??
So much for being ‘special’..
.
To equate the American Saga to present Israel is the ‘GOLDA’ stretch..just as good as her other ‘gem’ of there not being any Palestinians on the land..
Now really!, how’d you get away with that one for so long??...
Oh, I know..it’s the same way you’ve all gotten away with jail sentences for Holocaust Deniers..now that’s a real ‘gem’!..
Tell me, is the Holocaust a religion? Is not believeing the holocaust the way you do, a sin???
Is questioning the holocaust heretical? .
You are a joke..and the jokes are coming down around your ears..and I’m enjoying just watching it..you can’t defend your positions..and everyone has had enough of all your shananagans and your propaganda…
Too funny, it’s all just too damn funny…
TATA
bravo edithann, we fully support you! i would go one step further and say CORRECT…the u.s. has no right to exist and SHOULD give all its stolen land back to the native people! unfortunately, that is now virtually non-existent history.
Edithann: “I see you are still in love with David Duke…I think maybe you have a thing with him..well get over it..If you can
Well Turdie..It’s ‘retarded’ and not retarted..You’ve done it twice..so I would assume you don’t know the word..as I see you don’t know a lot of things you keep writing about..
From your dogged persistenc in saying nothing..and all your postings, I surmise you are very young and very immature..and find some kind of testosterone rush in insulting people who don’t agree with your point of view..
There are hundredes and thousands of tribes all over the world..and they don’t have their own state..Just as the Jews hadn’t had a state for over 2500 years prior to ‘48!
These tribes might like to have their own state..in fact I know of one tribe at this very moment that thinks Israel is their ancestoral home and they have every intention of making that claim to the UN in the coming months…..
They are making plans now to take it over…and do exactly what you did to the Palestinians..they also claim that they have a history on the land..and they have their own ‘book’ that says they preceeded the Caananites, which we all know preceeded the Jews….so you see..you all might have to move out after all..
Don’t forget, with all the digging Israel has been doing now for over 60 years..they still haven’t found one iota of proof that any Jew ever lived there at all…so one has to question your original claim..
There was no Israel prior to ‘48..there was no reason for it then..as there is no reason for it now…if you can give me a reason why it was necessary to plant an Israel on the already inhabited land of Palestine..then maybe you might have a discussion…but to throw in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and all matter of sundry states..is the height of ignorance..and not worth bothering about..come up with an argument..and we can discuss..otherwise..go to bed!
TATA
You have not explained why Israel has less right to exist than any other modern nation.
turdburglar, the fact that you site the most outrageous propaganda machine regnant in the US, i.e. elementary and secondary public school ‘history’ books, demonstrates the level of your brain’s sequacious pursuivancy. there isn’t a single historian writing about US history who was an eye witness to any of the events he/she prattles on about, and then presents to the publishing companies and their vulgate as the ‘apodictic’... scilicet, the unassailable truth. concomitantly, one can only conclude that such an author’s tautologies are just that…his- or her-story… nothing more, nothing less… most of these authors’ divulgations bring to the table of academic rigor EXIGUOUS evidence to support their historical detergings and white-washes on behalf of US and state govts., and all their apologists, myrmidons, and minions in the public ‘education’ sector. of course, the jews are entitled to live wherever they please, so long as they have not stolen the land from its rightful owners and occupants. and they are welcome to call that land they have LEGITIMATELY paid for and settled on whatever takes their fancy. but they have absolutely NO right to purloin land by force of arms from the legitimate owners and then shooting them where they stand if these legitimate residents resist being driven from the only homes they have ever had. we in canada are finally redressing the crimes we recognize and admit committing against our indigenous people, natives who were occupying those lands long before the europeans arrived like a scourge of locusts. the canadian govt. has returned not only vast expanses of land to COPE [canadian original peoples entitlement], but has also dumped hundreds of millions of dollars into their coffers in order to help the indigenous people claim back their livelihood and their dignity.
I just found this bit of information that I think might be enlightening to all non-Jews, who for centuries have found it difficult to understand the complete lack of Jewish honesty…As in the Talmud, certain character traites are encouraged, which to the wider world of non-Jews have always been objectinable..
Well here is another ‘BLOCKBUSTER’..the yearly ability to negate all promises, agreements, business and personal….
Blew my mind! Please read the following..and then go to Google..it’s all there..the following is a small sample of a debate on the issue..it’s a prayer, and an oath taken yearly by all Jews on their high holy day of Yom Kipper!
http://www.jfkmontreal.com/Kol_Nidre/kn_debate.htm
TATA.
Oh, those holocaust deniers..just wont believe without seeing all the proof for themselves…..
The nerve of them to question the Holocaust ....
tsk, tsk, tsk….too funny…just too damn funny..
Just imagine going to jail because one questioned the holocaust..
Next they will instist of burning all doubtfuls at the stake!
http://thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=3840
Fact: There is no “Palestinian” people, they are just a bunch of filthy dogs that Egypt, Jordan and the rest of the Arabs didn’t want. There is no “Palestine” in history, you can even look it up in the book!
The Israeli have been very patient with the “Palestinians”, but I think they should all be relocated (by force if necessary) to arab countries where they belong.
What do they contribute to Israeli society other than misery?
Michael R. Cohen, Esq.
New York City
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