The Real Case for Israel

You are off topic..the topic is Israel and the Palestinian problem...why are you trying to obfuscate the issue..don’t you have anything else to offer??

One of the leading Zionists here in the Bush Administration is up on 5 criminal charges...of lying and obstruction of Justice....don’t you think that alone, is topic enough??..After all, he is one of the leading signatures of that Contract for America,and chief of staff of the Vice President of America. That same blueprint for war, the Zionists have been flogging every administration since Daddy Bush..It took ‘STUPID’ to finally put it into fruition, at the cost of hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi lives, over 2000 American lives, and 47,000 seriously maimed, untold property damage, and the depletion of the US treasury..
and all for Israel!

Now I think that issue is more important than your vocabulary displays..You’re not impressive and only makes you look asinine, in light of the seriousness of the topic!

TATA

Edithann:

Turdbooger doesn’t look any less asinine when he’s on topic.  Is his ad hominem about a ‘PUBLIC institution’ referring to UC Berkeley?  How asinine can one get?

TB, as israel is the client state of the present murdurous regime in the US, not my country canada, it would be more accurate to describe you and your compatriots as gormandizing on baby flesh, given the obscene nos. of deaths, particularly of babies and children, suffered by the iraqi citizenry and the palestinian diaspora huddled in refugee camps, imprisoned in their own land. your venomous de haut en bas pullulates [breeds] lethiferous levels of hatred that ripple ever-outward from your vortex and maculate every ubiety the ripples touch. we and our progenitors have all suffered from the hate-mongering obloquy of others. my husband’s grandparents were slaughtered by the turks in talas. all my grandfather’s lands outside prague, bohemia [now the czech rep] were confiscated by the catholics and his herds slaughtered, but what remained of the 2 families came to canada and started again, w/out inciting a mordant [caustic] diathesis w/ which to poison the hearts of subsequent generations. vindictive ambits are self-abnegating. shoving the past and all its iniquities behind you and your fellow zionists is long overdue.

tyrrhen,

I thought I recognized your accent as Canadian, eh.

Look at the history of United States foreign policy.

The war in Iraq is not a war for Israel.  It is a war to secure key natural resources.  The neo-conservitives in America are NOT zionists.  They are CAPITALISTS.  It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure that one out.  Bush is an oil barron, not a jewish zionist.  Why not cut off relations to the Sauds?  That is not to say he is not racist, however, I don’t think he holds hatred for muslims alone.

Look at the history of Israeli foreign policy.  Its relations with Palestine and the surrounding arab nations have been PREDOMINANTLY defensive in nature.  I do believe Israel has always had a right to exist.

I hold no hatred for any people.  Merely what unnerves me is heinous acts committed under the guise of a political ideologue.  Clearly you believe I am entrenched in a purely dogmatic love for Israel and zionism.  However, it is clear to me that you are entrenched in a dogmatic belief of your own.  Tieing the Bush administration to Zionism is completely ludicrous.

Most of my family lives in Winnipeg ;) However, I am currently at Uni in California… ;)

From my understanding UC Berkley is a publicly funded institution.  From my understanding teachers are strongly encouraged not to teach dogmatic ideology.  Academic freedom refers to the right to publish facts and teach objectively not the right to teach ideology and hearsay.  Public instutions are there to provide people with objective information so they can reach their own conclusions.  It’s called ‘critical thinking’, sadly not everyone is ‘college material’.  Private institutions like Harvard are not held to these moral standards.  The article fails to mention this in its discussion of attempts to keep the book from being published.

tb

#1--you present a U.S. war of aggression to secure resources and establish regional force projection In the Mid East as mutually exclusive to America’s rabid support for Israel and certain zionist ideals, whereas these are quite intimately related.

The World Zionist Organization recommended a radical restructuring of the Mid East through violence, and their program dovetails with uncanny comfort with Mid East plans outlined by Jewish-American Nazis, including those composed by Jewish neocon zealots and described in a variety of documents, the Program for a New American Century, among others.

It seems preposterous to claim that many of America’s neocons had no zionist sympathies when they were paid members of a variety of zionist think ttanks and/or acted as direct advisors, laisons, etc to the israeli government or were directly attached to israel’s propaganda machine.

As to Mr. Bush and the most influential element in his power base..both are evangelical Christian psychopaths who have their own obsessive agenda involving the return of Jews to the so-called Holy Land in preparation for the Second Coming. It is no secret these fundamenatlist Christian lunatics, despite their anti-Semitism, have been embraced as important allies by israel.

#2 I suppose one COULD claim that most of israel’s actions have been “defensive.” They’ve “defended” their vicious ethnic cleansings, rapes, terror campaigns and massacres of 1947-48. They have “defended” the illegal expropriation of land and water from the indigenous population. They have “defended” their illegal apartheid wall as a “defensive” gesture, though it is a VERY thinly disguised land grab and effort to establish expansionist borders. They continue to “defend” their reprehensible human rights record, outlined in great detail in Norman Finkelstein’s latest book.

This brings me to my question for YOU.

WHY are you commenting on the nature of, and condemning the publication of A BOOK YOU HAVE PLAINLY NEVER OPENED?

Mr. Turd..
I hate to burst your bubble with some other critical thinking, but, Israel has been the aggressor since they invaded Palestine in the late 18th to early 20th Cent......
And the Neocons are all Zionist dual Loyalists masquerading as Americans..all working for Israelis best interests, or so they thought.....
It was the Contract for the New American Century, written by Netanyahoooo himself and signed by nearly all the neocons (Jews) in the present administration which is he blueprint of what we are living through at this moment in time...I’m sure you might not be aware that Irving Lewis (Scooter) Libby is the first to get his ass in the sling..with more to follow, if all goes well.......I don’t know where you get your information..but I’m sure it’s from the same Zionist propaganda file issued by Israel, and handed out to all the Diaspora faithful....
It’s not rocket science, that the contract was more than appealing to the baser instincts of greed which seems to permeate the Bush crime family and, simultaneously dove taied with the never ending aspirations of Israel for perpetual war in the Middle East..It was a perfect storm for the fantasy of an Israeli emergence as Power Broker of the Middle East with the US as their ‘Bully Boy” !
And as Hubris would have it...Israel and the US are now being eaten alive.......

The only consolation for this American is, that as we go down..ISRAEL and their Diaspora supporters will go down also…

I don’t think you have benefited by the extraordinary opportunity you have at the UC at Berkley...because your critical thinking certainly leaves much to be desired..
.You are out to lunch on all your facts..I suggest you give up that ‘free’ seat you have at UC and give it to some worthy student...one who has the capacity to be able to think for himself..and is not already brainwashed with Israeli claptrap!.

.

Were the ‘Jewish Zionist Nazis’ involved in the attempted coup of Hugo Chavez in Venezuela aswell?

Since when is the UC system free?

http://registrar.berkeley.edu/Registration/feesched.html

Compared to Harvard, it might as well be free..It’s a state school and so doesn’t compare to Harvard..but then that’s where your buddy Dershowitz teaches..the seat he bought at he Law school...I bet it was endowed by an Israeli Firster..like himself!. so he would have a pulpit for his pro-Israeli tirades......and anyway, what are you doing here??..What’s the matter with Canadian Higher Education??..Especially that you don’t like us..or do you find more kindred Israeli spirits here and especially in the CA area..Or maybe you’re one of those art students roaming around the states..and not at UC at all???????????????…

There isn’t a University in the US that is free from the ADL which automatically stifles any kind of free speech..They seem to have their own secret police monitoring the professors for fear they might say something about the ongoing Israeli barbarism.

Oh, are my remarks anti-Semitic???

Were the ‘Jewish Zionist Nazis’ involved in the attempted coup of Hugo Chavez in Venezuela aswell?

Public institutions aren’t morally supposed to support the institutionalization of dogma.  I could care less if Harvard does, it’s a PRIVATE institution.  BTW Harvard and every other ivy legue school is prodomantly prodestant.. haha

I’ll repeat this cause its important…

Were the ‘Jewish Zionist Nazis’ involved in the attempted coup of Hugo Chavez in Venezuela aswell?

By throwing in Chevez makes you very transparent…
You are deliberately trying to obfuscate the topic..the topic is Finkelstein and Dershowitz..Do you have a problem with discussing the topic or is your UC memory faltering.??..Or probably more to the point, it’s just another Israeli two step, to obscure the myriad of lies put out by Israel for the past 60 years, and sworn to by Dershowitz. 
Finkelstein cleaned his clock in 317 pages and shot down all your claims to victimhood by the Arabs...All researched and impeccably documented ..
I would suggest you read the book and then start your classes. That is, if you are mature to accept the truth..And if you really are at UC!

TATA

You can repeat it until the ‘cows come home’!…
Does it have anything to do with the topic at hand??

And if it’s so important to you..let us know why?

TATA

My point was that the US has no ‘zionistic’ goals in its foreign policy.  The US is involved in Iraq for the sole purpose of securing natural resources.

Please add this to your ever expanding vocabulary. 

CORPORATOCRACY

YOU CAN NOT DROP OUT OF YOUR CLIENT STATE FREE MARKET SYSTEM.

You are out in space if you think it’s only corporatocracy..it’s that and Israel..what, can’t you accept that it’s for Israel also??..
Give me a break..of course it’s for oil..after all, with Iraq oil, there would be Oil for Israel and that dreamed of pipeline..

US alone has no Zionist interest per se, but just try and get anything that doesn’t include a big slice for Israel..it just would never happen...we are joined by the neck with Israel..and it’s all due to the Fuken Zionists and the clout they’ve had on our government since ‘48..So you can forget any other rhetoric..it doesn’t float..it’s been for Israel..the war, and the oil...So how come Russia was so smart??  They got rid of the Oligarchy Israeli sponsored crooks and now we will also...soon I hope!

You still haven’t mentioned Finkelstein and Dershowitz..
I guess you are an Israeli shill after all.....

TATA…

Derschowitz is from Harvard
Finkelstein’s book was published by the UC press.

You have brained your damage.

TB, contrary to your pronouncement, i suspect most harvard undergrads are in fact nullifidians, like my son, who is in 2nd year there… whether they check the identity box that labels them protestant, catholic, ba’hai, jew, muslim, pantheist, animist, shinto, buddhist, sycorax-votary, hindu, zoroastrian, agnostic, or a poseidon-acolyte.....

as you so argutely detected, david, yes, a canadian… but living in egypt.

My point was not that Harvard students were religious in any way, but rather that the ivy league schools if controlled by any conspirators would be controlled by white anglo saxon protestants rather than jews.  I don’t believe the post I was responding to was inferring a religious orientation to the Jews in control of Harvard.  It had more of a political connotation to it don’t you think?

It’s still and irrelevant point..religious or political...it’s still not on topic..and it’s still an avoidance of the topic..

You are out of touch with reality if you think there is a difference between public and private Universities..your ADL is an equal opportunity Anti-Semitic brigade..always looking for something that would put Israel in a bad light..and might put the Arab issue open to debate. There is nothing worse than anyone questioning the validity of Israel and it’s right to exist...Israel has no right to exist and that is exactly the point!

Me thinks you are circle jerking and looking to obscure the fact that Finkelstein is telling the truth..and is diametrically opposed to your facts..in fact..you have no facts!
What you are doing is exactly the usual Israeli agenda of avoidance of debate of any relevant and factual issues..
So if you have nothing further to add to the conversation..I suggest you hang it up....

TATA

Private Institutions of any kind are not heald to the same standards of Public institutions.  Name a publicly funded Catholic School.  It is expected that information be provided to students in a objective manor.  I am asserting that neither of these books is entirely objective.  Being that Harvard is a private institution it doesn’t really matter there.

Israel has as much right to exist as any other modern nation.

Israel has been the victim not the victimizer in the majority of cases.  This point has as of yet not been refuted with the acception of israelisarefilth’s laughable reply which consisted entirely of hearsay.  Here’s some more hearsay:  I worked for amnesty international this past year.  Their methods for political change involve the manipulation of statistics.  I know that to be a fact, however, you will only know it as hearsay.  Here’s a fact that you can verify.  The latest California Peace Action/Amnesty International ads deplore US arms trade to the congolese.  It has a picture of a child holding a gun.  The gun is a russian AK-47.  Haha.  Political organizations tend to be biased.

Can you name one nation other than Israel that has returned the spoils of war after a victory?

Israel has no right to exist on another’s land..period..there is no other argument..

You are doing the AIPAC shuffle..and I refuse to play your stupid game..I don’t believe anything you say...on Amnesty Int’l..or anything else..Israel is the aggressor, always has been and always will be until we cut off all US monies…

You can stick you pseudo argument up your ‘you know what’!
Finkelstein is right, you all do the same thing..anything to change the subject...so how many Palestinians have you killed in your IDF days??..Are you on some sort of Katsas mission here?…
It all has to do with BY WAY OF DECEPTION we shall try and snow the world with our propaganda....and it’s not working..I don’t believe you are a student at UC and especially with any amnesty Int’l....you are just a fuken Israeli shill…

Oh, giving up the spoils of war?...You bastards haven’t given up a thing!..You are still stealing more and even building mini concentration camps. Disgusting vile trash!

So get lost!.

I’ve never been to Israel.  The only time I left the states was for a bar mitzvah in Winnepeg when I was 14.  I went to Puerto Rico once too, but I’m not sure that counts.

You argue only by personal attacks.  You keep changing the subject.

Finkelstein sounds like a psuedonym to me.

Find yourself!

what’s a katsas?

Look it up in your mossad dictionary…

TATA

what’s mossad?

Well if Finkelstein sounds like a psuedonym to you..then it proves you know nothing at all about the subject?…

Ao why are you wasting everyone’s time?..Are you trying to impress anyone with yout vocabulary, which by the way, needs work…
I guess I was right after all, you aren’t a student at UC, in fact I bet you aren’t even an adult!

TATA

I was mocking you.

YOu!!!

Is this board your new assignment?

TATA

“We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population.” David Ben-Gurion, May 1948.

ISRAELI’S MUST ASSIMILATE FOR WORLD PEACE!

That’s not a real quote.

Now, why am I not surprised you would say that?…
I bet the Protocols aren’t a real blueprint either?…
I also bet the forgeries of the Niger nuclear material weren’t a mossad plant either?..
For someone who doesn’t know Finkelstein, his real name, or anything about the book; what gives you the authority to even make any statement as to the truth of anything???.....
Why would anyone take anything you say as anything but garbage??
you can’t discuss he topic..and you refute direct quotes…
What the hell are you doing here anyway???
Get lost! you have no credibility....

TATA

“Peace for us means the destruction of Israel. We are preparing for an all-out war, a war which will last for generations.”—Arafat, El Mundo, Caracas, Venezuela, Feb. 11, 1980

That one is though.

What’s Finkelstein’s real name?  <-another joke

Anyone can do what I did and google that quote.

More lies..just as Finkelstein states..It’s all been a colossal lie from the moment the UN declared and Israel at the expense of the Palestinians to the present…
I bet you are going to tell me there never where any Palestinians and there was never a Palestine...that’s the Golda Golden Quotes..now I bet you will say that’s authentic....Too funny, just too funny!!!

As for Arafat, he already declared his acceptance of Israel years ago..only you all want the whole enchilada..way beyond the ‘UN ‘48 boundaries....
It’s Israel who is to blame for everything..all the killings..all the suicide bombings, all the demolishing of homes, the poisoning of wells the destruction of farm land, olive groves, killing of livestock, the destruction and slow genocide of the Palestinian people...all of it…
It’s because Israeli’s can’t live without war and an outside enemy, or they would turn inward and ask questions about a religion that preaches hate of ‘others’..and is full of lies...just as Norman Finkelstein states in his book ‘BEYOND CHUTZPAH’...and you have the chutzpah to keep on with your nonsense!

TATA

Israel’s Further Theft of Palestinian lands

http://www.imemc.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=14707& p;Itemid=1

16:12 Israel resumes plans to divide the West Bank into three isolated cantons
Saed Banoura - IMEMC & Agencies - Sunday, 30 October 2005

Israeli Authorities are carrying a plan which aims to divide the West Bank into three isolated parts, with roadblocks, settlement constructions and the separation Wall dividing them.
Israeli newspaper Haaretz reported on Sunday that Israel started to construct a huge roadblock near Tappoah settlement, south of Nablus, to separate the northern West Bank from the central areas.

An Israeli military source told Haaretz that the army decided nine months ago, to construct this roadblock, which includes ten routes, eight leading to the south and two to the north of the West Bank.

One of the routes will be used for ambulances and urgent cases, while another route will be used to enable easy passage for West Bank settlers.

Nablus governor, Mohammad Al Aloul, said that this plan aims to separate Nablus district from Jenin and the rest of the districts in the West Bank.

Al Aloul expressed deep concerns that Israel might consider these roadblocks and routes as international border crossings as it is currently considering Qalandia checkpoint, south of Ramallah as a border crossing in spite that it is far from Jerusalem and the Green Line with Israel.

An Israeli political diplomat reported that the installing the huge roadblock south of Nablus is one phase of Israeli policy of limiting the freedom for movement of the Palestinians by creating three huge isolated cantons in the West Bank; the other phases are resembled by controlling main roads in the West Bank and expanding Israeli settlements.

Currently, the Qalandia checkpoint is considered a main roadblock which separates the center of the West Bank from the south.

Israeli constructed Modi’in – Giv’at Zeev road west of the checkpoint, which will only be used by settlers which disconnected the direct link between Palestinian areas within Ramallah district.

The Separation Wall around Jerusalem, settlement road number 60, Abu Dis checkpoint and settlement constructions which are encircling Jerusalem are completely separating between central West Bank areas and the south.

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“We plan to eliminate the state of Israel and establish a purely Palestinian state. We will make life unbearable for Jews by psychological warfare and population explosion. . . . We Palestinians will take over everything, including all of Jerusalem.” --Yasser Arafat, Chairman of the PLO (in front of an Arab audience in Stockholm in 1996)

1996 was after he ‘accepted’ Israel.  He even got one of those nobel prizes for it in 1994.  I think it was the Nobel War Prize.  Wait no, Peace Prize…

I hope that quote wasn’t in this book.  That would truly be pathetic.

“[Israelis]they would turn inward and ask questions about a religion that preaches hate of ‘others’..and is full of lies...just as Norman Finkelstein states in his book ‘BEYOND CHUTZPAH’” Edithann <- which religion?  Christianity?

Finkelstein your ancestors are rolling in their graves.  Did you get picked last in gym class?  Mom didn’t hug you enough?  Still a virgin?

“We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population.” David Ben-Gurion, May 1948.  <-- I hope you did not perport this to be fact in your book.

edithann, your tireless, herculean protreptics, in a heroic effort to elucubrate this TB hebetude, are noble beyond compare. the augean stable that TB’s thought processes represent, is far too feculent and impetiginous for me to persist in further decontaminating attempts. my brain is benumbed by all the contusions sustained from bashing my skull against the concrete cortices of TB’s. but i applaud your energy, moral compass, and perseverence throughout these polemics; they are laudable. i cling to the hope that somehow our collective exertions will segue into a transformation of the US/israeli-created maelstrom the palestinians are drowning in, at least long enough for the palestinians to emerge for an invigorating breath of fresh air and a reassertion of their right to freely breathe the air that wafts across their own land.

I hereby declare that you have no right to exist…

Your arguments have been purely hearsay and ad hominem.  Truely a pathetic display.

Arafat never said that..that piece of Propaganda was for your own consumption..to keep all the lobotomized brain dead Israeli’s still acting like Nazis..

As for that Nobel Prize...Begin got one too, and we all know what a terrorist he was...It’s all a bought prize anyway..they give them our like candy..to anyone with the money, that’s why Jews get so many.......

You are Zionist scum..and as I said...get lost!

TATA

As for turning inward..It would be your own Talmud stupid..that’s the one that’s filled with ‘HATE’ for all ‘OTHERS’! As another one of yours so stated:..
In Jewish History, Jewish Religion,..Israel Shahak!…

Is it your education that makes you ignorant..or too much time with your nose in a book, banging your head on a wall?

Oh, spare me your vocabulary..it was amusing at first but has worn thin..you Nazis are a ‘one trick poney’!

TATA

As is your usual ‘schtick’..you took what I said out of context..therefore you have lost any modicum of credibility you might have had…

ISRAEL HAS NO RIGHT TO EXIST ON ANOTHER’S LAND..

ISRAEL HAS NO RIGHT TO EXIST ON PALESTINIAN LAND..

NOT NOW, NOT BEFORE, AND NOT IN THE FUTURE!

tata

Just in case you were to young to remember what the Israeli Nazis are capable of......TATA

Militia boasts of role in Sabra massacre

By Inigo Gilmore in Beirut

10/30/05 “The Observer”—-- It was one of the most shocking massacres to scar the Middle East, the slaying of more than 2,000 Palestinians by Christian militiamen in the wretched Lebanese refugee camps.

Now a film has returned to the story of Sabra and Shatila. But for the first time it has told the story of the slaughter through the voices of the killers. In Massaker, six former Christian Phalange militiamen tell of their training by Israeli allies and recount the events of 16-18 September, 1982, when hundreds of Palestinian men, women and children were killed in the Beirut camps.

Although the identities of the men are disguised in the 90-minute documentary, they make no attempt to hide the gruesome details of the massacre, with some boasting about their killing skills with AK-47 assault rifles and butchers’ knives.

Several parts of the film assault the viewers’ senses, including one where a man describes how another militiaman, a butcher, took pleasure in carving up his victims. Another recalls how even the wails of old Palestinian women ‘left them cold’ as they systematically moved into the camps, tossed grenades into houses and sprayed rooms with gunfire, killing at close range.

The film is ground-breaking because it is the first time that members of the various militias involved in the 1975-90 civil war have spoken at length on film about what happened, particularly in such candid detail. It has been shown at festivals in 15 countries, and in France and Greece Massaker will go out on general release.

The directors say that they deliberately made a ‘politically incorrect’ choice in portraying the massacre from the perspective of the perpetrators. The characters are unpalatable and the directors hope not only to confront their audiences about the violence generally, but to tackle the Lebanese head-on about their past deeds.

One of the directors, Lokman Slim, says he hopes it can bring people together - if not to ‘reconcile’ them, then to educate them about chapters of their common history.

‘Personally I don’t think there are victims and perpetrators [in this conflict],’ said Slim at his office in south Beirut, a stronghold of the radical Hizbollah movement.

‘I think each perpetrator was a victim, because he was amputated from a part of his humanity, and this amputation makes him a killer ... If someone is at the same time a perpetrator and a victim, is he somehow less responsible for what he did? No. As long as we are not recognising what we did towards each other, we will never reach a point of real reconciliation.’

Only one of the six men interviewed shows any sign of remorse.

Some Lebanese have raised questions about the merits of the film, with one critic, writing in Beirut’s Daily Star newspaper, accusing the filmmakers of providing the killers with a platform from which ‘they make excuses for themselves and boast’.

The men interviewed in the film were loyal to Lebanon’s then new President, Bashir Gemayel, who was assassinated on 14 September, 1982, in an explosion at the Phalangist headquarters in east Beirut, a killing which has never been solved. A day later the Israeli army moved into west Beirut in violation of existing agreements.
continued:

continued from previous page::

Israel’s Defence Minister at the time, Ariel Sharon, authorised the entry of members of Gemayel’s Lebanese Forces (a Phalangist militia) and Saad Haddad’s South Lebanon Army into the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps, home to 30,000 Palestinians whose refugee families had moved to Lebanon in successive waves since 1948.

The camps had been sealed off by Israeli tanks. When the militiamen, who were worked into a frenzy after being told that the Palestinians were responsible for Gemayel’s killing, entered on the evening of 16 September, the only resistance they encountered was from a few lightly armed young men.

For the next 38 hours, the militiamen raped, tortured, mutilated and massacred civilians. The exact number killed is still not known. On 22 September the International Red Cross gave a figure of 2,400, but Palestinians claim more died.

One of the most controversial revelations in the film is the alleged extent of Israeli involvement in the preparation and execution of the operation, down to providing body bags before the killings began. ‘You’ll be needing these,’ one of the militiamen is told by an Israeli officer.

© Guardian Newspapers Limited 2005

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The single document probably most influential in directing George W. Bush’s alliance with Israel against Saddam Hussein’s Iraq was a study prepared by Perle, Feith and Douglas Wurmser, who in 2004 took a White House job connected with pressuring Syria to evacuate Lebanon, drop support to Hizbollah and block insurgent troops, funds and weapons from entering Iraq over Syria’s borders. The study was called “A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm.” It was originally prepared not for the Pentagon, but for Israel’s new right-wing Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, Ariel Sharon’s perpetual critic and rival on the far-right fringe of Israel’s Likkud Party. It trashed the Oslo peace accords of 1993 that Clinton had sponsored between Rabin, Shimon Peres and Arafat. It asserted Israel’s right to invade the Palestinian Authority’s areas whenever it believed necessary. It further advocated not only Saddam Hussein’s forcible removal, but also overthrow of governments in Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia and Iran. It urged an open policy of preemptive strikes. For Iraq, the report urged post-Saddam restoration of the Hashemite monarchy in Iraq and mentioned that “Israel has an interest in supporting the Hashemites in their efforts to redefine Iraq.”

Books by Bush’s former National Security Adviser Richard Clarke and Treasury Paul O’Neil, to say nothing of Bob Woodward’s meticulously recorded interview with Bush and others, amply record the president’s determination to blame Iraq for the 9/11 attacks and, with the support of a Republican-dominated Congress, to steer America into his war of choice against Iraq. What many Americans, other than those outside the defense industries, government and the Washington lobby groups like the potent AIPAC (The America-Israel Public Affairs Committee ), do not realize is the degree of actual U.S.-Israeli military cooperation in the run-up to the war, and the war itself. Weapons including co-produced drone aircraft, were shared. Israeli special warfare instructors helped to train U.S. Special Forces at Fort Bragg, North Carolina, and elsewhere. U.S. observers accompanied Israeli strikes on Jenin and other West bank towns during the second Palestinian intifada in the spring of 2001, to learn “house-busting” and other techniques later applied in Iraq. Above all, Israel continued and probably increased the perennial input of intelligence it gathers or tries to gather on Iraq and most of the rest of the Muslim world.

During my interviews in Israel I consulted such analysts as Shai Feldman, heading the Jaffee Center for Strategic Studies (JCSS) at Tel Aviv University. Before the war he had prophetically written that “Israel’s security interests are served by the evolving U.S.-led confrontation with Iraq almost regardless of how it ends,” a statement he might be less ready to support after the disasters of the U.S. occupation of Iraq.

http://www.ameu.org/printer.asp?iid=263&aid=551

I think this thread has been changed and is now out of Israel...I might be wrong..but I don’t think so…

If you notice..our little Turdblossom is absent today..and the same old argument is getting boring…

I was glad to see at least one damn neocon indicted..now for the other 99 and we might have it under control…
Will they have to turn in ‘ALL’ their passports at their hearings, to keep them from fleeing to Israel??

..

I’m not a neo-con.

Stop spewing your propaganda.

prop·a·gan·da n.

The systematic propagation of a doctrine or cause or of information reflecting the views and interests of those advocating such a doctrine or cause.

You are a holocost revisionist.  Most people view holocost revisionists on the very very far right of the spectrum of political doctrine in the united states.  If anyone is a conservative on this message board it is not I.

You have no right to exist.

Hey Mr. Turd…

Israel has no right to exist..there was never an israel and there is no need for one now..So pack your bags..and hit the road...get a boat and drop anchor at the first port that will accept you…

TATA

Finkelsteins biggest supporter and advocate:

http://www.davidduke.com

That’s right.  DAVID DUKE.

I made this propoganda myself.  It only seemed apporpriate.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a118/turdburgler/eichmanvsfinkelstein.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a118/turdburgler/eichmanvsfinkelstein.jpg

You’re useless!

you don’t even know who David Duke is....

You must be terrified of Norman Finkelstein,,,are you that terrified of Chomsky, Sy Hersh, Avi Shlame, and the Jews against Zionism??  YOu must be terrified of everyone who doesn’t think like you....so sad..really so sad…

TATA

You’re right.  I’ve never met David Duke.  I doubt you have either though.

51 Documents: Zionist Collaboration With the Nazis
Article/book #1179: 51 Documents: Zionist Collaboration With the Nazis
By: Lenni Brenner
Date of issue: November 2002
Abstract: From the book description: The Nazi era is the most discussed period in history, yet most Jews and other Americans are unaware of the interaction between Zionism and Hitler and Mussolini. The reason is simple and stark: the Zionist record is dishonorable. This book brings to light, through the use of actual historic documents, the disservice that the Zionists did to Jews before and during the Holocaust. Some of these documents were published in English decades ago, but are only now seeing the light of day. Others are being translated into English for the first time. Included are documents from Propaganda Minister Goebbels’ newspaper, Der Angriff, detailing an SS-man’s visit to Palestine as the Zionists’ guest. Readers will also learn about Adolf Eichmann’s account of his personal dealings with the Hungarian Zionist Rezsö Kasztner, who was later assassinated in Israel as a Nazi collaborator who betrayed 400,000 Hungarian Jews. Also revealed is pro-Zionist propaganda put out by the Nazis, such as a medal for getting Jews to Palestine and a Nazi board game where the object is to move Jews to Palestine. The documents contained in this book were selected with due care so that a rounded picture of history emerges. The author concludes that Zionism betrayed the Jews; and the evidence that led him to that conclusion is contained in this book. This book shows that the consequences of Zionism demand exposure.
http://www.corkpsc.org/db.php?aid=1179

I believe it was Finkelstein who started the name calling…

On Anti-Semitism
By Gilad Atzmon
10-20-4…The last statement is perplexing because it is the Zionists who tell us all the time that anti-Semitism is on the rise. Zionism is fuelled by anti-Semitism. The Zionists need anti-Semitic acts in order to justify the state of Israel as the only viable option for Jewish existence. Zionists have long understood that it is anti-Semitic acts that push Jews to support the idea of a Jewish state. Accordingly, in order to promote Zionist interests, Israel must generate significant anti-Jewish sentiment. Cruelty against Palestinian civilians is a favourite Israeli means of achieving this aim. Hence, we confront something of a vicious circle: the Israelis commit atrocities against the Palestinians; some anti-Israeli feelings mature into sporadic verbal and violent attacks against Jewish people and Jewish interests; Jews around the world feel rightly threatened and inclined to support Israel; some of those Jews emigrate to Israel; more Palestinian land is confiscated; anti-Jewish outrage around the worl

_________________

It appears that Edithann is an agent of the Israeli machine. Her hate-filled anti-Zionist and anti-Israeli posts make many readers became strong supporters of Israel. So, I hope she continues with her vile diatribes, especially those against Jews and their religion… also a few fabricated quotes can be helpful…

The icing on the cake:

“you don’t even know who David Duke is....”

Oh Ariram..Is that a call for help??

foo funny, just too funny…

Yes, you will be attacked with everything I can find to show the world your evil message..be it in your religion or in your politics..they seem to be the same anyway…

So bring it on....and lets see who has the facts!

TATA

Ooooh! Ooooh! It’s Assram with a wicked judo move on Edithann....but....wait....Edithann isn’t there....and Assram falls heavily on his assram.  Turdbooger....waiting in his corner for his chance to kick Edithann while she’s down....kicks Assram right in the neck.  Ooooh!  It’s getting wild in the ring folks....the crowd is rolling in the aisles!

Gift Of Insults
There once lived a great warrior. Though quite old, he still was able to defeat any challenger. His reputation extended far and wide throughout the land and many students gathered to study under him.

One day an infamous young warrior arrived at the village. He was determined to be the first man to defeat the great master. Along with his strength, he had an uncanny ability to spot and exploit any weakness in an opponent. He would wait for his opponent to make the first move, thus revealing a weakness, and then would strike with merciless force and lightning speed. No one had ever lasted with him in a match beyond the first move.

Much against the advice of his concerned students, the old master gladly accepted the young warrior’s challenge. As the two squared off for battle, the young warrior began to hurl insults at the old master. He threw dirt and spit in his face. For hours he verbally assaulted him with every curse and insult known to mankind. But the old warrior merely stood there motionless and calm. Finally, the young warrior exhausted himself. Knowing he was defeated, he left feeling shamed.

Somewhat disappointed that he did not fight the insolent youth, the students gathered around the old master and questioned him. “How could you endure such an indignity? How did you drive him away?”

“If someone comes to give you a gift and you do not receive it,” the master replied, “to whom does the gift belong?”

In other news:

Civilization began the first time an angry person cast a word instead of a rock.
Sigmund Freud

My conclusion is: the Internet has a civilizing influence on even braindead troglodytes. (don’t let me get in the way, people. The entertainment value is just too good)

Oh, what was that Ariram...a call for help with a ‘few fabricated quotes”???..I know you are asking for help..but help with ‘lies’...Is that how you manage to do it???  With ‘FABRICATED QUOTES’?? Now that is really scraping the bottom of the barrel....you are a sad specimen of a human being....needing to defend your posItion with ‘FABRICATED QUOTES!!!

Too funny, just too funny....

TATA

luminous beauty: are you mocking edithann and his cronies or did you get hit in the head with a blunt object this morning?

Edithann:  Ariram was referring to the Ben-Gurion quote you made which is not real.  Haha.  Check your sources… try www.google.com

I don’t believe Ariram used any fabricated quotes… There is an Arafat quote you questioned that I posted.  However, there is no proof its false anywhere that I can find.

again Edithann’s website:

www.davidduke.com

bravo, edithann; your bravery inspires the more timorous to bend courage in servitude to others, which according to sebastien junger, is the craton of heroism. and luminous beauty, your identity is condign...you are a source of luculence; the apodictic [true] definition of beauty is luminosity.

Thank you Tyrrhen for the compliment, and I’m sure it would be even more fun to read, if the topic wasn’t so serious.....
You must add more..and I certainly don’t mean by ‘fabricating” anything....Wasn’t that just too much??..
.
Oh, and I also appreciate your ‘Lewis Carroll’ use of language.

TA

Luminous Beauty who is so Gloriously Bright,

Thanks for the great story : Gift Of Insults . Will be saving that one to the hard drive.

Edithann,

You are a hero. Keep up the good work here.The Turdbungler is just stuck to your shoe. But don’t worry, shit washes off.

Tyrrhen,

Thanks for the vocabulary lessons.

Glad you guys are enjoying the fracas..

Can anyone imagine putting a name like ‘Turd’ out there to argue a case for Israel, or a case for anyone??…

Does anyone think it might be a Freudian slip??

Too funy, just too, too damn funny..

TA.

turd - A lump of excriment.

burglar - a person who attempts to enter a premises with the intent of committing a crime

You have suffered severe brain damage if you cant see the meaning of my handle.  No one is born that dumb.

It’s mocking YOU.  I didn’t ‘steal’ shit.

Send some money to David Duke’s campaign.  He is the only politician I know of supporting this filth.

BTW Freud went out of style a long time ago.

You steal shit?

You are a shit stealer?

You are the filthy one. You mock yourself.

Israeli state terrorism....Isn’t this a war crime?? TA

Israeli clampdown amid rise in ‘sonic bombs’

Chris McGreal in Erez
Tuesday November 1, 2005
The Guardian

The Israeli defence ministry has barred foreign journalists from entering the Gaza Strip in an apparent attempt to limit reporting on the killing of Palestinian civilians, the firing of artillery shells and the use of “sonic bombs” to terrify the local population.
Over the weekend, Israeli air force jets caused two dozen sonic booms, many at night, which human rights groups have described as “terrifying collective punishment”.

The crossing post at Erez was closed after a suicide bomb last Wednesday in Hadera killed five Israelis. It was reopened yesterday to Palestinians with permits.

It is time to deal with Izraeli’s Lobby!
Lies of the White House gang about the Iraq were always transparent.  But the biggest, and so far whispered only factor in this Iraqi/terrorism mess is virtual control of American Legislature, foreign policy and mass media by the Israeli partisans.  Power of the Lobby shuts down any debate about the main (and stated by terrorists) cause of 9/11, which is occupation of the West Bank with US money and arms.  9/11 was in turn grabbed by the Lobby as an opportunity to destroy the most dangerous enemy of Israel - Saddam’s Iraq, as advocated by the familiar characters for years before 9/11.  It is not a coincidence that the most vicious Iraq - bashers were Jewish: from Wolfowitz, Feith, Perle, Libby, and Abrams to Adelman, Brooks, Krauthammer, Safire, Judith Miller and Kristol, to name just a few of the countless activists.  This fifth column must be exposed to prevent further damage to our treasure and life.  Manipulation of intelligence and public opinion that went into this enterprise is nothing short of treason of historical proportions.  And the Lobby was a crucial factor in ramming the war through.  There were other powerful interests involved - emporium-builders/oil securing corporate types, crusaders and political opportunists like brains of our shrub. For the mass media overwhelmingly owned and staffed by the Lobby (vide NYT) a nice bonus was economic value of the reality show entitled The War.  To paraphrase: Never in the history of the mankind, so many across the world did not suffer so much for so few (fanatic settlers) to gain so little (land and water of the West Bank). Sure, there will be still plenty to deal with, but you cannot start making any progress without decisively addressing that glaring injustice.

To supplement my earlier comment.  The order of real drivers on Iraq war will always be debatable.  But I would stick to my opinion that efforts of pro-Israeli activists on many fronts were the primary one.  We should be hearing more of it if it is true that Fitzgerald is looking into Benjamin Franklin (accused Israeli spy) connection with Niger forgeries (www.dailykos.com/story/2005/10/19/145557/54).

Unfortunatelly, any discussion of the assertion that mass media are predominately owned and staffed by Jews immediately invokes accusations of anti-Semitism (just wait!).  The problem is that this is a factual statement.  It is a pity that only fringe groups (www.stormfront.org) dare to document it (or, conversely, anybody who tries, gets marginalized).  Recommend a book by former congressman Paul Findley “They Dare to Speak Out,” to see how it is done.

Regarding sources of 9/11.  Bin-Laden’s personal motives my be more complex, but the important issue is that the glaring injustice visited on Palestinians by Israeli-US alliance is the main source of hatred felt to US by the “Arab street” (his base) and source of martyrs willing to die to hurt us (US).  But check page 154 of the official 9/11 Commission Report – the initial plan was to land one of the high jacked planes, kill all man to draw attention and read statement condemning US support to Israel.  Bin Laden tape released just before last year’s elections was primarily devoted to justify attacks as a revenge for US and Israelis policies.  But this got buried, and our fellow citizens are convicted that muslim extremist just “hate our freedom”.  Any idea why?  We are already past 1984, it looks.

Transatlantyk: excellent post ...
And we didn’t need a dictionary to decipher it...it was concise and exactly on point!

The hard part now is to pick up the pieces..put America back together better than it was, without catering to special interest goups, take back the media and, straighten out Israel once and for all.

Israel cannot be allowed to run roughshod over the world fermenting hatred and problems. It must not be allowed expansion and access to neighboring natural resources and the annnihilation of the Palestinians.......
They will just have to be content with the land given them by the UN..sans water and oil..and allow the Palestinians to live in peace...After all, the Palestinians have already accepted them..so aside from the rapacious greed of Israel for more of their land and resources..there is no need for continued support of anything ISRAELI!

tata

Trans..I’m sure you didn’t mean Benjamin Franklin as a possible Israeli spy?...One must be very careful of what one says..Things are always taken out of context to make their own points...I’m sure your aware of it..it’s their game!

TATA

I second and third all who call for a total withdrawl of U. S. support of Isreal.  Those who steal the land of other, rightful occupants of that land have no right to gain from that act of theft.  We need to abandon support for Isreal and tell the rest of the Middle East - ‘Have at ‘em boys’, and let them drive ALL the Jews there into the sea.  For those who draw parallels to our treatement of Native Americans and what we should do about them, I say yes that is a problem.  However, there are no living Native Americans holding deeds to land that was taken from them by white Europeans, and there are still Palestinians holding title to lands confiscated by Isreal.

Withdrawing our support of Isreal will help to restore the balance in the region to what it should be.  Yes, it will hurt our efforts to control oil resources in the region and force up the prices we pay for oil.  That would be a good thing to finally bring some sanity to our selfish, bloated and ruinous ways of living in the “modern” world.  This gets into all other kinds of issues to be discussed other places, so I’ll leave it there.

truthteller, you are steller. tell us where to proceed. how do we redress the injustices, the heinous crimes that have been committed against the palestinians w/ mind-bludgeoning relentlessness for over 7 decades? be our cynosure, our pole star. i feel so helpless in this battle i’ve been involved in but losing since our family moved to jordan in 1988. here we are 17 years later, now working in egypt, and no progress has been made. in fact, the palestinians are suffering in an even more dispiteous state now than they were then. sanguinity is dying an anguished death.

truthteller:

I don’t mean to distract from your otherwise admirable screed, but I’ve had lots of personal contact with living Native Americans struggling to recover tribal lands deeded by treaty unilaterally abrogated by the US and various state governments.  They’ve maybe had more success than the Palestinians, but still have a long path to walk.

But go on.

right you are, luminous beauty. during our regnancy in inuvik and tuktoyaktuk in the western arctic during the mid-’80’s, we bore gratifying witness to the enormous strides being made by canada’s inuit and other ‘first nations’ under the COPE land claim settlements, wherein the canadian govt was compelled to return millions of sq.clix, as well as lucre, in compensation for what had been expropriated by us european defalcators. more compensation is to follow.

native americans get payed ‘reperations’ for the use of their land.  they are not allowed to use large plots of the land apporpriated to them in certain states.  This land is used for toxic waste dumping by the government and the natives are payed reperations.  indeed we have a very racists government. 

To say that our current administration’s policy is dictated by israel’s best interests would be moronic.  They act only in the best interest of world trade.  The 9-11 attacks weren’t on the israeli-american embassy.  They were on the world trade building.  Look at the history of american foreign policy.  Look at an objective history of israeli foreign policy.  To me you look like a bunch of racist yokels.

Go comment on david duke’s site.

Hey Turd:

Comparing the American Indian situation is another AIPAC retort to serious questions as to the legitimacy of Israel..and it doesn’t float..Although what we did is inexcusable..there are Tribes now who are very rich...So rich that one of yours just swindled millions from them...seems you all have a propensity to take what’s not yours..Anyway as you might not know Jack Abramhoff stole those millions to build and support illegal settlements in sunny old Israel..Abramhoff is the lobbyist who also is in deep doodoo with DeLay in laundering campaign money...and he is also involved in a murder in Miami..involving another swindle of a Casino Owner.  I must say..you all do get around..

Oh, the American Sage was 300 years ago...No one in this day and age rolls up on any shores and declars a ‘NEW WORLD’..on land already inhabitied...It seems Israel is suffering from a case of arrested development...You can try to put forth that argument..but you will look ridiculous and really very stupid..

As for David Duke...You were the one who brought him up...so you debat it if you feel it’s necessary...But I would be careful...Israel seems to have learned all they know from the Nazis, the collective punishments..all the way to building mini concentration camps for their slow genocide of the Palestinians......

There are no yokels here..only the ones defending the right of Israel to exist on the backs of the Palestinians…

TATA..

.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pine_Ridge_Reservation

Yes, native americans are bathing in riches. <-sarcasm

There were jews in palestine prior to large amounts of Jews emmigrating to the lands.  The formation of Israel was sanctioned by the U.N.  The Jews emmigrated to escape persecution, not to conquer the arabs for exploiting the land. 

Why would they emmigrate to the desert if that was their purpose?

so you support david duke?

Hey Turd:

American Indians is not the subject..the subject is Israel...and the money we spend to suport your sorry asses..the money we send for you to brutalize the Palestinians, steal their homes, confiscate their land, destroy their social fabric, destroy their infrastructure..and perpetrate a slow, insidious genocide..so Israel can confiscate all their land..and truely make the ‘GOLDA GOLDIES..true…

Oh, that persecution crap is nonsense...everyone has been persecuted at one time or another..that doesn’t mean the world owed them someone else’s land...grow up..and get an adult argument…

you must read Finkelstein...you have a serious case of denial....

Changing the subject makes you look obvious!
.

I see you have a thing for david duke…

too funny, just too funny

TATA

All I can say to Truthteller, is hang in there..it will be a long hard pull, but you will eventually come out of it...Israel can’t last forever..they have no educational system to speak of..they have no industry., oil or water.. they have just about no economy but what we supply..and the religious nuts are taking over the government..so they can’t move much..
They have to create problems just to hold together.. .but they are falling apart, many Jews are leaving..there is no immigration to speak of....so the best we can do is bide our time..keep those deeds..and never, never, never give up…

It is always nice to be underestimated by your enemies. That is what the Arab states did in 1947-48 and in 1967 and ended up paying dearly for their mistake. As for “throwing the Jews into the sea” - they tried that several times and ended up drinking the sea water themselves…
Now some facts:  Israel has a $100 billion economy. It has the highest ratio of university degrees to the population in the world. Twenty-four per cent of Israel’s workforce holds university degrees, ranking third in the industrialized world, after the United States and Holland.  Israel has the world’s second highest per capita of new books.
As for immigration. This year more than 2000 came form North America and more than 1500 came from France. More than 3000 came from Ethiopia.
Edithann can eat her hate filed bigoted heart out....

i didn’t change the subject to the native americans.  It was brought up by someone else.

“There were jews in palestine prior to large amounts of Jews emmigrating to the lands.  The formation of Israel was sanctioned by the U.N."<- what about this?

U.S. GDP per capita -> $42,367
Israeli GDP per capita -> $22,944
Jordan GDP per capita -> $$4,427
Syria GDP per capita -> $1,378

Egypt Net migration:  -0.22 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2005 est.)
Israel Net migration: 0 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2005 est.)

As for the educational system… I believe Neve Gordon, the author of this very article, teaches at a school in Israel.

Well Assram & Turd:

Yes the UN sanctioned Israel, and you’ve been trying to destroy it ever since..Israel has almost 300 violaitons including Human Rights violations...so what about that?

You spout the same old tired Israeli arguments with not an ounce of facts to substantiate your claims...yes..there were all those people migrating to Israel..BUT HOW MANY HAVE LEFT??
More are leaving every day,,MORE LEAVING THAN ARRIVING.
I love it that you are taking in the Ethopians...They are the bottom of the rung, you need bodies to justify your claims..otherwise the whole damn place would be one big settlement.and you know it!…
Tell me true:..would you allow your daughters to marry one of them???  .
I understand a lot of Jewish Zionist girls from the US and Israeli girls find Ethopian Jews attractive,, I hear that the American Zionists are running in droves to marry Ethopian Jews...to show they aren’t prejudiced or racist..and are willing to make any sacrifices for Israel......Is that true???  What do their Rabbis say about that??Do they arrange those marriages also??...I also understand, and it was in Haaretz, that the Rabbis make the arrangements for the marriages..even if the girls are underage, and in opposition to their parents......How did those Rabbis get so much power??  ..
It’s all just too funny..just too, too funny....

The Israeli educational system in on a par with the 3rd world internationally..they are ranked 34th after Thailand....If it wasn’t for American money..Israel would have no economy at all...The US just banned Israel from selling arms to Venezuela...first China now Venezeual...pretty soon you will have to eat all those arms…

Who cares who teaches in Israel..you need more than Neve Gordon....you need to teach something useful...instead of that Vile Talmud..That’s just a manual for crime..how to do it, and who to do it to ...etc…

You can’t sell that usless, overworked, time worn ‘SCHTICK’ anymore..it’s not selling…

TATA..

Israel is ranked 23.
http://hdr.undp.org/reports/global/2005/pdf/HDR05_HDI.pdf

thailand is ranked 73.

I know nothing of arranged marriages in modern times… The grooms were of the same age as the bride.

That’s not true..look up the educational standings in Haaretz...they are below Thailand…

And the girls were underage..and you didn’t answer the question of your prejudices towards other Jews..namely the Ethopian Jews...but you are so willing to drag them out for propaganda purposes....You are too much
...Don’t you know that half truths..are lies...don’t you know that deliberate omissions are lies...oh, I forgot..you get your rules from the Talmust..the “crime manual”...forget it...I stand corrected..you don’t know that half truths are
lies...you just lie!

And anyway..even if all you say was true..and it’s not...that still wouldn’t justify Israeli’s existance...you could all do the same thing in the new Diaspora...There never was a reason for an Israel, and there certainly is not a reason now..never was and never will be.....

TATA

TATA

my prejudice towards ethiopean jews?  I have no prejudice.  What about you?  When did I use them for purposes of propaganda?

Give me a link to your alleged rankings at haaretz… There is no such document at the haaretz website.

I gave you a verifiable link from the source of my information.

The girls AND boys were underage.  Prove otherwise.

This filth that is spat from your viale mouth is blatant anti-semitism.  You have nothing to back up your argument other than information from purely anti-semetic sources.  Find some information that is verifiable and objective.

there is only one eidolon of truth that matters in this embittered polemic… the PRESENT… it is the present US/israeli-induced dystopia in which the brutalized palestinians struggle to survive, so eloquently described by finkelstein, that every humanitarian’s conscience must address. and it must be addressed by everyone w/ a shred of misericordia [compassion and mercy] before israeli troops jack-boot their way thru gaza and what remains of palestine’s west bank. now that all the jewish settlers have been summarily and safely extracted from gaza, the israeli genocide of gazan palestinians has kicked into high-gear. soon it will be too late. and still the media will suppress the evidence of this genocide. the israeli/zionist propaganda machine will ensure that velleity and unapologetic mendacity prevail.

palestinians play war games with the israelis.

there is a cause and effect involved in the actions of palestinian rebels.  Militant dissenters, jewish or otherwise, from inside the israeli state would be treated in a similar manner as would those in any other modern state.  Palestine is not a sovereign nation for a reason.  Militant dissenters from inside the Palestinian state are not treated in this manner.  Until this changes little progress can be expected in terms of their statehood.

Israeli reaction to Palestinian militants has nothing to do with ‘Zionism’.  It is merely to preserve the Israeli state.  In order for Palestine to achieve its independence, it must first and foremost seek to preserve an organized free government capable of maintaining order, self-preservation, and lobbying for change in Israeli foreign policy.  It will NEVER achieve this if Palestinians continue to seek an end to the means via militant action against Israeli civilians.

It is only dystopian if you are swimming against the current. 

Turn around.  You’re going the wrong way.

The educational figures were in Haaretz..you look it up!

As for anti-Semitism...I think any criticizm of anything Israeli is Anti-Semitism..and especially someone who doesn’t by your propaganda on the wonders of Israel..
.
We feed your sorry asses, keep your IDF brutalizing the Palestinians, pay for your stealing of Palestinian land and your slow genocide of the Palestinian people..and you have the nerve to call anyone anti-semitc?? 
You are anti-American, anti- Goy, anti-Gentile...and anti-Arab..is there anyone else on the planet you hate??

Too funny, you are just too funny....

TATA

TATA

Hey Turd:

You do not have the world backing you..only us..I think it is you who had better turn around..because we will not be watching your back for long....Your neocon days are numbered..or hadn’t you noticed!

TATA

I think the hope for a change in U. S. policy towards Isreal lies with the attitudes of working class Americans, especially in the Black community.  I hold an industrial, union covered job on the U. S. East Coast, and many, if not most of the African-Americans I work with are sympathetic to the Palestinian cause.  From their history they understand oppression and know it when they see it.  They are also generally untrusting of our Government’s motives in general, and are among the most likely to see and believe in the Zionist control of our media and politics.

I also see hope in the writings of some progressive authors and talk radio hosts like Stephanie Miller, Jeannene Garafalo, and Thom Hartmann, who have all questioned our uncritical support for Isreal.

I’m an American you racist moron.  You are clearly anti-semitic if you believe zionists are in control of the american political system and the media. 

Why do you think Finklestein makes his books so short?

He’s targeting the illiterate.  This comment section has made that fairly clear.

As for your African American friends sympothizing with the Palestinians… Does your job require that the employees be beat with blunt objects over the head?

Bob Marley=zionist

There is still a Raggae zionist movement.  In fact there are some upcoming shows where I live in Cali…

Under Arab society the Jews are a subjugated minority.

and as far as who won this argument… it was over a LONG time ago:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin’s_law

Try and say anything on a call-in show on most radio or TV outlets in this Country that is in opposition to Isreal and see how long it takes you to get cut-off (C-SPAN may be one major exception).  I heard Stephanie Miller being called every kind of racist, anti-Semitic thing possible one day by a Jewish listener for being critical of Isreal.  There is definitely a concerted and coordinated effort in the media to stifle pro-Palestinian/anti-Isreali commentary.

I very much resent the implication of illiteracy.  I hold a Bachelor’s degree in Political Science from a major American public University, and have been a political activist just about my entire adult life. 

I don’t think most of my black aquaintances are all that political, but they do know unfair treatment and oppression when they see it, and they see it in Isreal’s treatment of Palestinians.

Hey Turdie:

No, you are not an American, you are a Dual Loyalist..an Israeli Firster and an American Traitor..just like your buddy Johnathn Pollard and the neocons who will be joining Pollard soon I hope!....

I’m the American..You are not!

Finkelstein is not appealing to the Illiterate..He is showing you and the Dershowitz zionist followers just how devious and evil you all are...and how you hound someone and villify them for telling the truth…

Besides yourself and Assram..who else has been championing your cause?? too funny....

I love when you display some comparison crap..first it’s the American Indians, now it’s Bob Marley and of course there is always the Arabs...and my response to that is SO WHAT’S YOUR POINT??  SPELL IT OUT..SO WE CAN ALL SEE YOUR RACIST THINKING....SO WHAT?????????

As I said..would any Jew in Israel or all those Kibbutz’s ask their Rabbi permission to marry an Ethopian Jew..for Israel??

Too funny...you are just too funny..but never forget..BREEDING WILL OUT.. and you are proof positive!

TATA

Both comparisons were made by anit-Israeli posters.  I was merely illustrating both comparisons to be completely and utterly invalid.  What’s YOUR point?

I was born in Florida.  That makes me an American.

Is calling someone a Nazi vilification?  I’m not sure.  What do you think?

Would I marry an ethiopian jew?  I probably would if I fell in love.  Would I have to ask my rabbi?  I don’t have a rabbi.

what exactly does “BREEDING WILL OUT” mean?  I’m not an english major, but it appears to me that doesn’t make too much sense.

Truthteller:  Under Arab society the jews are the subjigated minority.  I’m not sure that you understand the meaning of this, so I will rephrase it.  Jewish people are oppressed in an Arab society.  Much like African Americans are oppressed in American society.

An article not to miss...TATA

http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=7908

Ignorance is the last refuge of the scoundrel. In this case of the vile anti-Semitic scoundrel.
The way Edith speaks about the Jewish religion, the Talmud and how the Jews rule the world, betrays typical, classic anti-Semitism. But of course, here the extreme hatred to Israel blinds many to see this blatant anti-Semitism. Criticism of Israel’s policies is totally legitimate. Anti-Semitism is not.
I will let this scoundrel stay in the gutter where she belongs.

Well Turdie & Assram:..
You are lying again....Jews were never oppressed in Arab society..In fact they were respected and accepted..for hundreds of years, lived comfortably and prospered......
They only became oppressed when the Zionists decided they were all to move to Israel after the war....and Israeli terrorist gangs started their secret terror campaign of harassment of the Arab governments making it uncomfortable for them to stay in the counties they had inhabited for hundreds of years...Remember Turd, half truths are lies..you didn’t tell the whole truth.!

To make the comparison of Jews living in Arab countries for centuries as the Negros here in the South in the early days....is really shameful of you...it’s not true..any of it..
It’s all a lies..Either you don’t know your history..or you are deliberatly telling lies....as usual..it’s telling lies....

Yes I will attack your religion..because the roots to the worlds problems and the centuries of Pariah status Jews have held in the world, can be found in the pages of that vile Talmud..and the fairytale Torah…
That is also why the govt. of Uzbekistan was insistent that the headl Rabbi turn over the ‘TAYNA’..a derivative of that vile Talmud..to finally see what was written and, to find out the indoctrination the Jewish congregations were getting...something analogues to what the Israeli’s keep doing in translating Arab Sermons…
And it not only took the local Rabbi but the Israeli government to intervene and stop the turnover.....so the material was never revealed…
Now the logical questoin would be..what was in that liturgy that was so secret? That no one else could see it??
Well some of those secrets can be found in Jewish History, Jewish Religion..by Israel Shahak..an Israeli scholar..who lays out how much the Jews are taught to hate gentiles…
and how that ‘shtick’ of calling someone an anti-Semite seems to stop one in their tracks…
But they didn’t reckon on Edithann....so you can stick that anti-Semitic crap..up your you know where!.....

There is nothing anti-Semitic about anything I’ve written...is it anti-Semitic not to like you because your a dual loyalist? Is it anti-Semitic to want all aid to Israel stopped?? Is it anti-Semitic to want to see Israel in the very mini concentration camps they are building for the Palestinians???
..Get off that old tired mantra of ‘classic anti-Semitism...there never was such a thing..it’s always been more classic Zionist Propaganda.

BREEDING WILL OUT!  and in your case it’s in ‘spades’!

TATA

“…the position of the Jews was in many ways precarious. Like their Christian fellow subjects, the Jews were inferior citizens in the Muslim-Ottoman state which was based on the principle of Muslim superiority. They were regarded as state protégés (dhimmis) and had to pay a special poll tax (jizya) for that protection and as a sign of their inferior status. Their testimony was not accepted in the courts of justice, and in cases of the murder of a Jew or Christian by a Muslim, the latter was usually not condemned to death. In addition, Jews as well as Christians were normally not acceptable for appointments to the highest administrative posts; they were forbidden to carry arms (thus, to serve in the army), to ride horses in towns or to wear Muslim dress. They were also not usually allowed to build or repair places of worship and were often subjected to oppression, extortion and violence by both the local authorities and the Muslim population. The Jews in Ottoman Palestine and Syria lived under such ambivalent and precarious conditions for a number of centuries…” Changes in the Position of the Jewish Communities of Palestine and Syria in the Mid-Nineteenth Century”, pp. 142-163, by Maoz, Moshe

I was referring to the current state of oppresion of African Americans.

and as to your inquiries about the jewish texts.  You are completely correct in you charges that they contain plans of world domination. haha… I WILL RULE THE WORLD!

Hey Turdie..
When you are a minority in a country...you are a minority!..Just as the Israeli Arab is a minority..with the same discriminations by the Israeli’s...and much worse..they also are not allowed to build, and are thoroughly discriminated against by the Israeli judicial system..
Using your same arguments, then the Israeli Arabs have a good case for