According to a well-known anecdote, anthropologists studying “primitives” who supposedly held certain superstitious beliefs (that they descend from a fish or from a bird, for example) asked them directly whether they “really” believed such things. They answered: “Of course not—we ‘re not stupid! But I was told that some of our ancestors actually did believe that.” In short, they transferred… return to article
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Reader Comments (176)Jay is the original source of knowledge. He has a Blog, the only link he has ever provided in all his many posts, not once but at least twice now. Rabbit has no interest to see it and have all his illussions dashed, all mysteries solved as it is sure to have the answers to everything.
Rabbit has it on good authority that it is part of a ring of circle jerking backslappers.
Posted by Rabbit on Oct 31, 2005 at 3:48 AM There was no gunfire, full stop. The people who claimed otherwsie, have had the sack for making such incendiary and false statements. For the record.
but,
Rather, those who were actually there, and saw the gunfire in question, report that it was intended to get the attention of the helicopters,
I guess Wise was making that up?
A student of the welfare system such as yourself certainly has a much clearer picture of the different programs available and how benefits are delivered…
I do. Apparently Wise doesn’t.
Talk to lb about irony
I thank Rabbit and GrayArea for completing the destruction of Wise’s arguments for me.
Posted by Jay Cline on Oct 31, 2005 at 6:11 AM Jay how can anyone be so stupid and still stand up? You can stand up can’t you?
Neither the first nor the second quote you gave, the wise one or the one I said, is substantial enough to make any sort of factual comparison. Get a proper reference and thenm challenge my words, or I might need to do the same.
You are the biggest waste of time. It is pathetic to imagine that you actually think you are taking part in a discussion with people like Rabbit and others here. It is downright ridicaulous for you to imagine you have gained some point against anyone. Jay you have never made a serious contention about anything yet, pick around the periphery of issues to avoid anything with meat on it and 80% of your posts are quotes of others, which you invariably quote out of context or misunderstand.
Words here, such as the two quotes you gave above are nothing, just words in the wind without referenced sources and a coherant argument for their place in the context of the point you are trying to make. Even Jay does not know what point he is trying to make. You were right Jay, you are just a troll.
Go and look after your sad little circle jerk blog, maybe one of your jerky mates wants to have his preconceptions stroked, or maybe it is time you had someone take you seriously.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 1, 2005 at 3:52 AM Dead set, Jay, you are a complete clown, you make no sense to anyone and if you think anyone takes you for anything but a complete moron, you are mistaken. Maybe Natty likes you, but she is a Shill, and she has probably bugged out now her DU cause is gone.
Dude no amount of slogans and silly nitpicking, or HTML stunts are going to make you seem smarter than you are. If you were among the right sort of crowd, you might appear to be knowledgeable, but here you are demonstrably the lowwest common denominator. Even Scorpy can tell the difference between reality, because he has experienced it and imaginings from a biased media. Witness the fact that even he showed you are an idiot about China. You are an empty vessel, and it is to be hoped that you are no older than about 25 years. In which case the foolishness, the ignorance and the embarrassing immaturity may have time to dissipate before you reach a wiser age.
If you are older, best keep it to yourself, age added to your ideas might just be too much for most to imagine, without contempt..
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 1, 2005 at 4:02 AM Get a proper reference and thenm challenge my words, or I might need to do the same.
Wise says, There was gunfire
Rabbit says, There was no gunfire.
One is right, one is wrong.
They are mutually exclusive.
Posted by Jay Cline on Nov 1, 2005 at 8:52 AM Rabbit is trying to post a reply to you stupid Jay, but is having computer problems. You have not yet given any refences which is the point of the quote you posted of mine. You are such a clown you keep on posting things people say and show you have not understood a word of what you have gone and cut and patsed. How about you read and comprehend first. As soon as I can get the computer fixed, I’ll do this more thoroughly. For now a brief bit.
</a href="http://tinyurl.com/a655x">Here is the source for the following.</a>
Lt. Col. Pete Schneider of the Louisiana National Guard said other evacuations were continuing and were not affected by trash fires burning outside the Superdome. Law enforcement officers will ride with the school buses, he said.
“At the Superdome, we have a report that one shot was fired at a Chinook helicopter,” Schneider said, adding that the Chinook is “an extremely large aircraft.”
Laura Brown, a Federal Aviation Administration spokeswoman in Washington, said she had no such report.
“We’re controlling every single aircraft in that airspace and none of them reported being fired on,” she said, adding that the FAA was in contact with the military as well as civilian aircraft.
Rabbit is only saying he believes there was nobody shooting at helicopters, Jay is saying he believes Wise said he saw some shooting or something. Rabbit gives references here and so Jay is wrong until he can show otherwise. Link back to your blog Jay. That should prove something.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 2, 2005 at 2:48 AM Five weeks after Hurricane Katrina laid waste to New Orleans, some local, state and federal officials have come to believe that exaggerations of mayhem by officials and rumors repeated uncritically in the news media helped slow the response to the disaster and tarnish the image of many of its victims.
Claims of widespread looting, gunfire directed at helicopters and rescuers, homicides, and rapes, including those of “babies” at the Louisiana Superdome, frequently turned out to be overblown, if not completely untrue, officials now say.
The sensational accounts delayed rescue and evacuation efforts already hampered by poor planning and a lack of coordination among local, state and federal agencies. People rushing to the Gulf Coast to fly rescue helicopters or to distribute food, water and other aid steeled themselves for battle. In communities near and far, the seeds were planted that the victims of Katrina should be kept away, or at least handled with extreme caution.
“Rumor control was a beast for us,” said Maj. Ed Bush of the Louisiana National Guard, who was stationed at the Superdome. “People would hear something on the radio and come and say that people were getting raped in the bathroom or someone had been murdered. I would say, ‘Ma’am, where?’ I would tell them if there were bodies, my guys would find it. Everybody heard, nobody saw. Logic was out the window because the situation was illogical.”
There was an unnerving amount of lawlessness, especially looting, in the streets of New Orleans after the hurricane. But many of the more salacious reports have not withstood close examination by government officials or the media.
CNN reported repeatedly on Sept. 1, three days after Katrina ravaged New Orleans, that evacuations at the Superdome were suspended because “someone fired a shot at a helicopter.” But Louisiana National Guard officials on the ground at the time now say that no helicopters came under attack and that evacuations were never stopped because of gunfire.
Later that morning, during a briefing carried live on local radio and local and national television, Sen. Mary Landrieu (D-La.) said, “We have gotten reports, but unconfirmed, of some of our deputies and sheriffs that have either been injured or killed.” Of the thousands of law enforcement officials who converged on New Orleans, only one was shot. The wound to the leg was self-inflicted in a struggle, a spokesman for the Guard said last week.
The New Orleans Times-Picayune reported that National Guard troops found 30 to 40 bodies decomposing inside a freezer in the convention center, including a girl whose throat was slashed. The newspaper quoted a member of the Arkansas National Guard, which was deployed in the building. Other news organizations then passed the information on.
That, too, was untrue. On Monday, Bob Johannessen, a spokesman for the Louisiana Department of Health and Hospitals, said that four bodies were found—one was a gunshot victim. He said officials had no record of a dead girl with her throat cut.
The Washington Post, in a Sept. 1 front-page article, noted that evacuees at the Superdome were repeating rumors of rapes and killings but quoted Maj. Bush as saying “none of that” occurred. A Sept. 15 front-page story said the precise number of people who died in the convention center was not known at the time, but officials believed it could be as many as 10.
Lt. Gen. Russel L. Honore, commander of Joint Task Force Katrina, said that reporters got bogged down trying to tell people how bad the situation was rather than “gathering facts and corroborating that information.”
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 2, 2005 at 2:49 AM Here is the source for the First one again.
And here is a partial list of
Katrina mistakes
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 2, 2005 at 2:52 AM You have not yet given any refences which is the point of the quote you posted of mine.
MM already posted Wise’s article as a 7 part post. I got it from there.
Try the PageUp key.
Posted by Jay Cline on Nov 2, 2005 at 6:35 AM I have had enough. My inbox is getting full of notices that people are posting. I am unclicking the box and hoping the emails stop.
Bye. I’ll be back when there are other articles in In These Times worth a comment or two.
Posted by geebee on Nov 2, 2005 at 5:05 PM Now Jay, Rabbit has identified the following as that to which you are possiblt referring? Is this all?
Or consider the reports of thugs shooting on first aid helicopters: fact is, there are no first hand witnesses who claim they saw anyone shoot at the helicopters, as if hoping to bring them down or harm relief workers. Rather, those who were actually there, and saw the gunfire in question, report that it was intended to get the attention of the helicopters, which seemed to be repeatedly passing people by, looking at the catastrophic conditions, but refusing to land and save people in most instances.
Is this in itself a first hand witness report or even a qualified second hand report to you Jay? or is Rabbit missing something. It is true that with the current problems with computer massacre and all in the office that something in Major major’s piece was missed because no time has been given to study of it before.
Please tell Rabbit this is not what you are trying to put up against the above postings.
<i>Actually I can make it easier for you in one way, I have found the actual indigtment of someone who fired a shot from a pistol in the vicinity of a CHINOOK helicopter, if you want, or else please explain your sourcing better, or Rabbit’s misunderstanding.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 3, 2005 at 4:29 AM No, just thought the contradiction was self-evident.
Wise says, There was gunfire
Rabbit says, There was no gunfire.
One is right, one is wrong.
They are mutually exclusive.
Posted by Jay Cline on Nov 5, 2005 at 4:08 AM Idiot
Rabbit said he doesn’t believe there was anybody shooting at the choppers or who could even have been considered to be doing so.
Wise gives his opinion, based on second hand knowledge. The opinions are indeed mutually exclusive, one or other of them ONLY will be supported by the facts.
Well since Rabbit has posted at least some credible accounts which support his position, it would seem that he is right and JC’s understanding of what Wise was saying. Wise did not say he heard or saw gunfire, he specifically states it is second hand and he gives NOTHING which would be considered to be a credible report in a journalistic sense. So Jay, the only thing you have proven, once again, is that you are a know nothing poser, who substitutes LOTS of QUOTING of others and a few blithe pointless remarks for useful discussion. Now after all your avoidance and pigheadedness, you want to bring it down to a small semantic issue?
What a wanker you are JC.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 5, 2005 at 8:04 PM Upon re-reading it occurs to Rabbit why Jay cannot understand, so in the interests of better communication he re-posts the above in terms more likely to be familiar to JC.
Wise neither saw nor heard gunshots. Wise words.
Rabbit’s opinion that there were no shooting at Helicopters, appears justified. Rabbit right.
Jay originally said “so there was someone shooting at least,” or some such words. Jay wrong.Now whether or not there was someone shooting at rescuers, and there wasn’t it would seem, so what? What is the point which you would have liked to have emphasised with this supposed fact JC?
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 6, 2005 at 1:31 AM It is true one can build an airplane with three lego blocks JC, but a few hundred or even thousands of lego blocks, as some might own, can build a much more convincing airplane.
It is sort of like Jay has got a three block airplane, and Rabbit has built one from a couple of thousand blocks....................different blocks, many more possibilities.........................................................^^........ ......................
As an oldest brother he had this experience with his younger brothers sometimes, when the two played with legos, and since there were only two and eight years respectively between us, and a world of natural engineering ability it later showed, the result was predictable and sort of sad and cute. Now the same comparison, no matter what the age difference, is apt only to a degree. The Cute part maybe, is missing, but for some reason Rabbit cannot feel like being polite and saying Great Airplane, it’s at least as good as mine Your Airplane is not as good as Rabbit’s. It is largely because you don’t have enough blocks to build a convincing one, but it is compounded by the fact that you don’t even know how to build one and you have never looked closely enough at one to know what it looks like even.........................No sympathy, for the JC, none sympathy for him................says the mean Rabbit, get some more blocks and look at a few pictures, if that helps..
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 6, 2005 at 1:48 AM Of course. Forgive me.
Rabbit’s ears are so good he doesn’t need to be there to be a first-hand witness.
Rabbit fails in logic lesson, though. All I did was to shoot down Wise as a knowledgeable source on the subject.
Thank you for concurring.
Posted by Jay Cline on Nov 6, 2005 at 6:49 PM You are just the devious mastermind eh JC? The regular gold finger, or is that brown finger?
Your logic is unnassailable oh great sage.
Rabbit is inspired by the towering example of reason and perspicacity which is Jay.
.......................................Rabbit looking up at Jay, again asks............. is it a God?
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 6, 2005 at 10:38 PM Wise is a journalist and reported what he heard, the fact that JC once again tries to read more into such a small thing is the only thing which you have proved, numb nuts. Rabbit is informed and reported whhat he had read. Wise has said nothing which discredits him in this instance, Rabbit has shown his sources for what he said, and Jay, no matter how he spins it, is standing there with nothing. Nothing gained, and nothing lost, in the sense he had nothing to lose anyway.
If JC wants to discredit Wise or anybody for that matter he will have to do it without Rabbit’s help. Suggest instead you get some credibility yourself, JC the CJ.
Rabbit never claimed first hand knowledge, simply that he had knowledge. In fact I was always and still am prepared to surrender the point if you can prove otherwise, but you have not, and even Rabbit has one tiny piece of evidence you could use, but Rabbit will not let you have it for free, he has told you where to look. Rather than suffer a full defeta on this, you should have been able to negotiate a stalemate at least. You are intellectually very lazy JC.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 6, 2005 at 10:44 PM So, when is ITT gonna publish a critique of French imperialism, racism and destitute morality in the wake of the French riots of the disadvantaged French minorities?
Ah, I forgot. We don’t hate the French. The French who gave us that wonderful liberation in 1789 followed by the immediate emergence of such a successful Jacobian republic that revered the rights of all above all else.
Posted by Jay Cline on Nov 9, 2005 at 8:38 AM Heaven forbid if the brown moslems & the brown latins
figure out they are on the same side & form a united front against the lucky oppresive whitey
Posted by Markangelo on Nov 9, 2005 at 8:50 AM Stop your pointless troll rant JC. The things you just said about France was nothing but a little bag of vituperative snarkiness. They are your as usual sack of pissant infounded opinion and are thus not an issue anywhere except in your head.
the Froggies are not Racist you stupid American. You come from a self proclaimed Master Race, and call others Racist? Especially a country which has always been egalitarian compared to even your dreams of America. The case has already been made that the USA is not at all far behind France in any of the factors which led to these riots. Rabbit predicts you’ll be facing similar riots there in a year or two at most.
You can stop pretending as Scoop is that the rioting in France is religiously inspired, it isn’t and thats a fact.
The most extremist Muslim group in France has issued a Fatwa declaring participation in the violent rioting is enough to lose those privelages in heaven you believe lead all Muslims to live their lives on Earth. It has been Banned by the Muslims. Bet that doesn’t fit into your funny shaped world view does it Jay?
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 9, 2005 at 7:48 PM Gather round folks Rabbit has a re-post and a link.
This is too good not to see live.
JAY DeCLINE says:
Seriously, beowulf, if there is a question that I haven’t addressed, please restate it. I think it is obvious to all that I don’t shirk from a difficult question even, or especially, if I have a response that will inevitably be unpopular. Fear is not in my vocabulary.
............................................................ ...............^^........................................... ......Poor Rabbit.
The Rabbit has just gotten up off the floor. His sides and tummy hurts. . .......................... This is the most PERFECT Self Irony ever. Rabbit must confess, he had previously bestowed the title of King of self Irony on Scoop. But no. JC has just Trumped them all.
Rabbit just read it again and he is almost dead from laughter. Such a mean and sneaky way to injure Rabbit, making him laugh his poor Ears off.
This is so good that Rabbit is off to find others. Lume owns JC, since claiming him, as a favorite, while Rabbit only has Scorpy. This was Rabbit’s choice before, but now he looks jealously at Lume’s troll, such a fancy one it has turned out to be. Clever Lume, how could you have known. JC up until now you have been more like a caterpillar when Rabbit thought you to be no more than a crippled Moth. But NO, dear JAY you are a beautiful Butterfly, a veritable gift to internet debate. No wonder you never reference anything, it all makes sense now......................................Wow................ ............Impressed and still hurting a bit the Rabbit hops away to find the others.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 9, 2005 at 7:49 PM The French story some more for JC, who was fretting about it.
‘Muslim’ Riots Only
Hit Nations Opposed
To Iraq War?
By Wayne Madsen
11-10-5
France imposed a state of emergency as rioting continued for a 13th straight night and spread to more towns, including Calais, the French end of the “Chunnel” rail link to England; St. Raphael; Amiens; Grasses; Bassens; Savigny-sur-Orge, and Arras. Other cases of arson were reported throughout Belgium—in Ghent, Antwerp, Lokeren—and in Germany, where Cologne was hit for the first time with car arson.
WMR has emphasized that the arson attacks are well planned, coordinated, and only plaguing the three major NATO countries that opposed the war in Iraq, For that reason, European law enforcement and intelligence agencies should place 24x7 surveillance on Israeli diplomatic and intelligence personnel who may be engaged in “Lavon Affair” and “911” style false flag operations. Such an operation aimed at Venezuela’s President Hugo Chavez may have just been uncovered in Trinidad and Tobago.
http://www.waynemadsenreport.com/
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 10, 2005 at 3:51 AM I’m sorry I missed this article when it first came out… it is a very thoughtful examination of the structures, ideas, and behaviours that surround events and interactions in our world.
I agree that as the global market becomes more ‘free’, the need to control the migration of people becomes a larger part of the equation, and more rules are generated to control this activity.....
and that, as in any economy that pits the haves against the have nots, you’ll see an increase in the objectification of people, and a corresponding zenophobia, at either end of the spectrum.
More boundaries, more soldiers, more control, more fear, more hate, more exploitation, more need, more boundaries, more control, more soldiers, more death, more fear....
more more more…
the world ( and word) becomes even more nonsensical the more you say ‘more’, and I wonder how far astray we need to be before we realize how insane we have become.
Allowing people to ‘freely’ move across borders, and to trade their own labour on the ‘free’ market, would be a promising start in recovering our emotional and mental balance though, don’t you think?
Posted by minerva on Jan 23, 2006 at 11:42 PM -
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