“Swans sing before they die; ‘twere no bad thing
Did certain persons die before they sing.”
Samuel Taylor Coleridge
Posted by luminous beauty on Nov 22, 2005 at 8:03 AM
I enjoyed the debates with Mr. Cline and hoped he walked away with a little something to ponder. Maybe…maybe not.
Posted by beowulf on Nov 22, 2005 at 8:35 AM
Thanks, Jay, for all you’ve written. I agree whole-heartedly with most of what you’ve expressed, and have added your blog to my reading list.
Fare Well, as well, although I hope you’ll be posting more here at ITT on other subjects.
Natalie
Posted by Natalie on Nov 22, 2005 at 9:38 AM
I—and a select few—recently received a questionaire and solicitation from the Democratic National Committee. The questions, about 18, reflected economic and social concerns of progressives—e.g., health care, social security, poverty, education, reproductive rights, and so on, but NOT ONE WORD about the unending war on Iraq. Outrageous!!!!I filled out the questionaire and added in the “comments” section that I will be glad to send a modest contribution provided the Democratic Party strongly advocates the immediate orderly , phased withdrawal of US troops from Iraq. Not expecting a seismic reaction from the DNC, but if enough voices are heard…who nose?
Well, I’ve used up my quota of exclamation points so I must bid you Good Day and Good Luck! (sorry)
Posted by lee lears on Nov 22, 2005 at 12:03 PM
Here here, Lume. What better last shot for Jay than to have a proponent of Depleted Uranium, Government LIES and Torture, as well as pre-emptive Nuclear Strikes, like the SHILL Natty the Batty.
Beowulf did not post direct the above, thinks Rabbit but they were long since posted on God Squad and you ignored them then was my point dead buzzard. Not a Swan, Swans are nasty, brave and pretty, Jay is pathetic, cowardly and ugly of soul at least.
So are you Natty. The Vampire returneth. New assignment have we deary? Or maybe the propaganda team has decided on the new course of action to be taken now that Professor Jones and Sixty of his colleaugues demand a new investigation, and basically are saying the government did it.
Let Rabbit guess…....................You’ve decided to smear the guy?
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 22, 2005 at 6:10 PM
Beowulf, you deserve a medal for hope, the eternal optimist if you think Jay got anything past his sphincter. You see, that is the direct course to his brain and unless you know that you are wasting your time. This is also why Jay never says anything from the brain. How the hell can any thoughts travel all the way up to his mouth? So what the ingenuous fellow has done, is he has swapped the roles of the two ends of his body.
The ideas go in his arse, and the Crap comes out his mouth.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 22, 2005 at 6:15 PM
A goodbye isn’t painful unless you’re never going to say hello again.
Jay, goodbye ... for now?
Posted by David in Canada on Nov 22, 2005 at 6:45 PM
I am aware that many follow these threads. My posts were more for the awakening of the few that may follow and read what I offered more so than pointing Jay in a new direction. I have always believed that 911 is the lynchpin to this whole mess and never paused a moment in the last three years addressing that point. If we are to stop this and future wars, then we have to reevaluate the source. I hope a few souls out there maybe now realize we are not foolhardy conspiracy nuts, but serious analysts seeking the truth in a dragnet of lies.
Posted by beowulf on Nov 23, 2005 at 12:19 AM
“By The Way, Jay. The Professor Jones report is the end of the planes and fuel did it case, which is why the government Shill, Natalie, gave up.”
Fanciful thinking, and as is usually the case when a certain someone tries to characterize me or my motivations, quite wrong.
A stimulating, substantive discussion on the subject of the WTC towers (and bldg. 7) collapses:
PhysOrgForums
Ongoing back and forth. Very interesting spirited discussion.
As for Jones, I am dissapointed that he apparently has ended his media appearances / interviews. I was looking forward to this issue coming out of the Internet closet and seeing how well it holds up to scrutiny.
It will be intereresting to see just which publication accepts his paper, and what their policy of “peer review” entails.
Posted by Natalie on Nov 23, 2005 at 1:43 AM
Beowulf, Rabbit understands, and also uses such as Jay and even better the Shill, Natalie, to post to expound the truth. With them as foils it goes best. Natty who now pops in has been baited by Rabbit and expected. She would appear to be a government employed propagandist, the sort employed at the end of the long and sneaky line of and
Rendon his type. How is Rendon Natty? Do you ever meet the big boss or do you just work for a smaller contractor?
Natty has already smoked and mirrored and ducked and dived and dissembled and lost every single point, as far as supporting her weird conspiracy theory. You really should aquaint yourself with the extent of Natty’s willingness to whore her mind for nothing but her cause. She is “assigned” the issues of Depleted Uranium, 911, and Rabbit is guessing she is all for torture too. She is so under orders that she can be led around by the nose like a dog, a further investigation of her history on another thread, is even more telling in this regard. That one is Radioactive Wounds of War. Make no mistake Rabbit calls her a Shill for she is shown to be one, not out of any imaginings.
Like all Shills and Trolls too for their own reasons, she pretends that everything posted dissappears and can never be checked for truth later.
Just a heads up Beowulf and other newcomers. Rabbit was right about Jay DeCline no?
Dissenters are welcome, but not LIARS.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 23, 2005 at 5:25 AM
Oh and Natty has been asked upwards of fifteen times now to account for the Seven Live Suicide Bombers.
She ignores things like that, while telling us that our sources and experts quoted take LSD or are part of a huge conspiracy of Anti_US interests. Or linking to the Fema report, or to any one of the half dozen lonely discredited well known spin holes.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 23, 2005 at 5:31 AM
The link Natty posted is to nothing more than a discussion like these, and though off topic the details are even more thoroughly covered on our own God Squad thread linked to above. Talk about the endless story, you never give up do you Nat? Well Rabbit is not going to allow you to do your favorite trick of dancing around the Blackberry bush. The things on which you have been thrashed already, most everything, especially the FACT that the buildings were brought down with explosives. This has been thoroughly covered and you LOST, LOSE and are lost. Proffessor Jones came along in the middle of a claim by you that all those details, we had already covered and given the same conclusions to, had no EngineeringExperts and after trying to slander about sa dozen Prof Jones popped up in the news and you ran away. Now as predicted you are back and looking for somewhere to stick some of your slime. Natty the Batty is a Slime artist guys.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 23, 2005 at 5:39 AM
Why does Rabbit be a Ghost sometimes? Rabbit is a split personality.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 24, 2005 at 7:15 PM
Rabbit and GhostRabbit. That is interesting. Ghost electrons? Or is it electron ghosts?
Posted by David in Canada on Nov 24, 2005 at 8:05 PM
It’s a panoply of the absurd and yet entirely of this world. Historian Dieter Groh writes that conspiracy theorists “represent a constant temptation for all of us” because they are a constant in western history. According to Groh, “the historical sequence before the French Revolution is one of Jews, heretics, witches, followed by Jews, Communists, capitalists, and secret services” after the revolutionary year of 1789.
As diverse as these theories and their adherents may be, they share a basic thought pattern: great tragedies must have great reasons. According to this way of thinking, it would be impossible for a small group of Islamists to strike such a damaging surprise blow against superpower USA, with all its weapons and intelligence services.
“The wonderful thing about a conspiracy theory is that it allows you to understand everything perfectly,” says American political scientist Michael Barkun in an effort to explain the continued success of conspiracy theories. It “discloses to you that all the evil in the world can be attributed to a single cause, and that THEY are this cause, whoever they might be.”
Of course, THEY - the Americans, in the case of September 11th - make things rather easy for those with a lot of imagination. That’s because conspiracy theories, says Groh, only take hold when they come into contact with reality. To ensure that their “mechanism functions properly, they must fit into the prevailing interpretation patterns of a group, nation, culture or religion the way a key fits into a lock.”...........
.............Br
Posted by Natalie on Nov 26, 2005 at 1:14 PM
Natty we agree that people who ascribe to weird conspiracy theories are wackos. This is why we are now treating you as a wacko. You have this weird conspiracy theory which relies on a few government employess to claim it, against all evidence and by having a number of firsts in history, not once but up to three times on one day. Basically the conspiracy theory to which you ascribe is the most utterly insane and unbelieveable, not to mention dscredited one on the block. TRhis is why Rabbit did not even read most of your post anymore. You have not got even the credibility you were awarded for free at the outset of a debate which followed your outing as a government disinfo agent.
It is by no means certain that others have done the same but it is likely, you may notice how much support you’ve recieved along the way. Many have visited and either helped the rabbit wack you a bit, or they have even on occassion changed their initial belief in your conspiracy theory to an understanding of the Lies and an acceptance that the truth is something else.
Mostly thoughthey have left you to the Rabbit to feed on, you were lured here for this purpose and to stop you further polluting the Depleted Uranium thread, which was nearing a satisfactory conclusion. You were filling it like this with so much useless crap that the better parts fof the truth were being lost a bit amongst the garbage. Of course this is the tactic, and it is probably called “plan B” among Shills, filling up the thread and making it so long that nobody is likely to read it all.
Like everything else we the truthful and honest folk have a way around you. The clue is that the web is a permanent record. The government lies are being dealt with here there and everywhere, and the effect is apparent.
Your support base is being quickly eroded, or did you think the loss of faith in the government and it’s lies, was being caused by MSM reporting?
..................Down Down deeper and Down…...................
Nineteen suicide bombers and seven are still alive, what a wacko conspiracy theory that is.
Sixteen times Natty.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 26, 2005 at 6:22 PM
Rabbit just skimmed your post, you did do a try at the live “alleged Bombers” after all. Sorry though it isn’t up to anything.
Rabbit will not waste his time. They are alive you dimwit, they have been interviewed, they have absolutely been proven to be alive as far as any news can be, heh, maybe the US is not in Iraq at all? Maybe all the pictures are just faked? If the living men had been photographed and videotaped, do you seriously expect us to believe you would have accepted that? Of course not, you would have claimed they were faked or standins.
No way, they are alive, the reports are in far more and far more trustworthy sources than the controlled American media. Just becuase you don’t like the news, is no excuse to dicount it. You know if the choice is between everyone who opposes your Junta as being involved in a worldwide lying and disinformation campaign of a scale never before seen in history, or the increasingly isolated and discredited US Criminal Junta doing the same, guess which bet the smart money would take?
Rabbit can already see Natty should not be a gambler. You have a permanent losing ticket there girly.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 26, 2005 at 6:58 PM
Links are posted as refs only and if anyone cares they will be hyperlinked if you can’t work them due to broken lines. they are merely refs for the aforementioned
On the morning of September 11th, American Airlines Flight 11, along with 10 crew members and 81 passengers, departed from Boston
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 26, 2005 at 8:07 PM
A crew member on that flight, Madeline Amy Sweeney, (purportedly) was able to place a cell phone call to her ground manager during the hijacking. The assembled FBI transcript of this (recorded) call, was reviewed by the LA times and published on September 20th. A close examination of this transcript, however, proves to be very perplexing for a number of reasons: In it, Ms. Sweeney claims that the hijackers had stabbed two flight attendants and slit the throat of a business-class passenger, killing him. In addition, according to a recently released FAA memo produced on 9/11/01, one passenger is even mentioned as being shot. What
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 26, 2005 at 8:08 PM
Returning back again to AA Flight 11, another problem concerns the time-line of the cell phone call made by the flight attendant. In it, she claims that (shortly after) the hijackers gained access to the cockpit, the plane quickly changed direction and started rapidly descending towards the WTC - eliciting from her, the chilling statements:
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 26, 2005 at 8:09 PM
Taken together, all of the inconsistencies discussed above, and more of which that follows, may very well indicate that the AA Flight 11, as well as the other hijacked flights on 9/11, were commandeered by other means. This very possibility, has been proffered by a number of aviation professionals and pilots, who have voiced serious doubts that the suspects in question, could
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 26, 2005 at 8:11 PM
“Rabbit will not waste his time. They are alive you dimwit, they have been interviewed, they have absolutely been proven to be alive as far as any news can be, heh, maybe the US is not in Iraq at all?”
I assume you can provide links to the video interviews of these people, so we can compare their likenesses to the photos of the men included in the final 9/11 commission report. These interviews would presumably be of high profile and interest, widely disseminated, since they would conclusively prove that the commission report was fatally flawed, at least in this respect. I might even suspect that ABC, NBC, CBS, or even FOXNEWS has reports on such a blatant discrepancy.
Posted by Natalie on Nov 26, 2005 at 9:25 PM
“......Arup’s review of NIST’s findings and its own analysis led it to conclude that NIST has not satisfactorily demonstrated its main conclusion…..”
NIST lacking
Posted by Natalie on Nov 27, 2005 at 12:01 AM
I’ll see your pasty white BYU Mormon fundamentalist solar physicist professor and raise you one Arab structural engineering professor from of all places Berkley, CA.
<i>“Natalie, Professor Astaneh received a research grant from the National Science Foundation to go to New York and to Investigate the collapse of twin towers of the World Trade Center. This may have been because he was quite highly qualified and recognized in the
Posted by Natalie on Nov 27, 2005 at 2:39 AM
Rabbit is finished 911, you are beaten long since on the God Squad Thread, and you ran away therefrom to come and continue your crap and you are actually doing it again, you are going back over all the same stuff you have long since been finished on.
the pattern is the same, you were being overwhelmed by other posters, all making mince meat of you and so off you go, and pop up later, or in this case somewhere else.
It is a supreme deciever people, so BAD that the mere fact of her saying something makes it suspect.
This thread doesn’t need or deserve you, go and do it on God Squad where your defeat is in context. Obviously you have just finished a big Shill training course, and are all fired up. Everything you say goes against the truth, the FACTS speak for themselves and no amount of spin will win any support for the Official lie. Why is nobody joining the cause of the official lie? Because if nothing else about 911 stinks, and it all does, the FACT that the government is actively witholding the evidence which would prove the truth, the FACT that they have already destroyed much of that evidence, is enough top see them deemed GUILTY by any rational approach.
You would obviously be a complete lunatic idf it were not for the fact that you are a Government agent, a SHILL. You are assigned to this topic and just as with the Depleted Uranium you have to back it, and logic, truth, honour and humanity don’t come into it.
You are on the wrong thread, and anybody who doubts this Vampire is anything but what Rabbit says, go and look at the filthy beast spewing it’s venom over any who dissent.
Here is Natty on assignment for her beloved Weapon of Mass and Indiscriminate Destruction
Here she is starting on assignment two, watch the tactics of avoidance and character assassination. What is it about people expressing their honest opinions, based on relevant facts, which makes anyone a part of the demon anti Bush conspiracy for Natty?
Your post will be dealt with Vampire, but first it is time for Rabbit to remove the gloves, he is so utterly tired of your snivelling innuendos, character asainations and gross dishonesty. Rabbit has seen you metamorphose from a supposedly open minded innocent All Ameican Girl, to a heartless, cold and stubborn proponent of all the worst in the world. You are like the embodiment of Satan, and you are absolutely, beyond any doubt a Shill, whether or not you have opther duties for the Beast, is unknowable, but that you are married to the Great Whore of Babylon is long since obvious, and this is possibly why most ignore you, because you are really creepy, really quite a nasty aura about you to those who can discern these things.
Just communicating with you leaves one feeling a bit disgusted with oneself.
By the way, it is interesting that you don’t use windows, and Rabbit has a hunch he knows how that plays, a friend will confirm it. Maybe just a co-incidence? Not likely.
As for PDF files, they give Rabbit the shits, but in your case anything which starts asking for any sort of secure information from Rabbit’s computer is shut down material.
You know and I know what you are, and Rabbit is glad you have never denied it much, it would be so unbecoming, and besides, Shills always lose the argument about being a Shill, and you know that don’t you? All Shills know never to get into an argument about being a Shill, it can only end in defeat. Notice though that others who are called this, and it happens occasionally, always manage to answer the accusations easily. There must be something honest people know which you don’t I guess.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 27, 2005 at 9:00 PM
By the way the Naty’s sly innuendo about Rabbit and the PDF file, has to do with the fact that in the first war between she and Rabbit, she directed rabbit to a link which turned out to be a Government site which started doing much electron swapping and then sort of sneakily asked for a password to continue doing something it suggested I would be glad for. The Rabbit ran away fast. Ever since his computer was infected with more and worse hacking attacks.
The computer was sick and crashed a few times on the hackers obviously, but that left all the registry open and showed what they were up to.
Not knowing whether Natty was knowing about it, Rabbit was still suspicious, he was involved in no other issues at the time.
The fact that these two posts are personal attacks on Natty is due to the fact that Rabbit dislikes liars even more than idiots.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 27, 2005 at 9:07 PM
And although Rabbit started above, he will not further fill up this thread with this issue.You are ducking the fact that you have got hundreds of posts destroying your crap on another thread, and gratuitously moving it, here.
Considering how low you go in these things, you must be one hell of an interesting root.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 27, 2005 at 9:12 PM
Yes of course an Apple, you mentioned that before.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 27, 2005 at 9:15 PM
“Your post will be dealt with Vampire, but first it is time for Rabbit to remove the gloves, he is so utterly tired of your snivelling innuendos, character asainations and gross dishonesty. Rabbit has seen you metamorphose from a supposedly open minded innocent All Ameican Girl, to a heartless, cold and stubborn proponent of all the worst in the world. You are like the embodiment of Satan, and you are absolutely, beyond any doubt a Shill, whether or not you have opther duties for the Beast, is unknowable, but that you are married to the Great Whore of Babylon is long since obvious, and this is possibly why most ignore you, because you are really creepy, really quite a nasty aura about you to those who can discern these things.”
My goodness, all this vitriol for simply pointing out that the overwhelming concensus in the (real) scientific community is that the risk from exposure to depleted uranium is minimal, and for pointing out that the overwhelming concensus in the (real) Engineering and the (real) scientific community is that the collapse of the towers had everything to do with planes and fires, and nothing to do with deliberatly set explosives.
I take it that you don’t have any links to any video of the surviving hijackers.
I may be out on a limb here. Maybe there was a mistake and there is video of some “surviving” hijackers. But somehow I think that would have been huge news. Somehow I think I would have heard about it sometime in the last four years.
Rabbit, get a Mac. If you can’t access a pdf file for fear of a virus or a hacking, you’re missing out on tons of information. This is getting to be a predominant form of publishing information on the Web.
Posted by Natalie on Nov 28, 2005 at 10:16 AM
No Natty the Rabbit hasn’t even read your post, the vitriol is due to who and what you are. Rabbit knows that you are lying, dissembling, and that you have lost this issue on another thread. Having just said he will not continue this discussion since you have brought it away from the context of your so far complete anhiliation, this is blatant disghonesty and very rude and ignorant to the thread. You forget obviously that we have already dealt with the report you are now bringoing up and it didn’t help you then, which was before Jones report. Jones’ report incluses all the known facts, you professor didn’t help your thoery anyway and he didn’t have all the facts. You will get specifics from Rabbit about your wasted effort, when you stop meesing up this thread. Back to God Squad or Rabbit will re-post all the relevant stuff from their to here, just so you cannot pretend to be anybody except the braindead, foot shooting dissembling lying Shill.
There is plenty of evidence for the living “Alleged Hijackers” and it has been given already about two months ago when you first began ignoring that question, now you have waited for that to become old history and pages ago on another thread and hop over here to pretend you’ve never been chopped up already. There is furthermore no credible evidence that most of the hijackers were ever on board. They were not on the original flight lists.
As said the government is guilty, and most people now are waking up to this. The government could have stopped all speculation and accusations a long time ago, by releasing video and photgtraphs which have been confiscated by them, and kept from the public view all this time, despite numerous calls for them. Frankly Natalie, you are never going to win this when all eveidence available points to OUR conclusion, and nothing at all, has ever been given which made a strong case for the official theory. the official theory can be proven in one day, if the government chose, so why don’t they Natty? Why is it that sending out the “Rendon Group”, is the most the government is prepared to do? Propaganda, mostly involving smoke and mirrors what’s more, not even decent forgeries or planted stories much anymore.
Seems a bit odd if releasing a few minutes of PRIVATELY OWNED video footage would prove the Government story once and for all.
Natty we do know GUILT when it is that obvious.
Now Rabbit will continue to make a fool of you on the God Squad thread, unless anybody else specifically says they don’t mind you polluting this thread now. In which case Rabbit will of course have to transfer all your previous humiliation over here first. You are one sneaky beast, but like all Shills totally without shame.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 28, 2005 at 6:52 PM
As for the PDF file you have posted above, Rabbit can normally read such but your last one is not running for Rabbit. This computer is not all loaded up with programs yet, since your Pentagom friends have raped his old computer, and don’t fdeny it, Rabbit has had some confirmation of the hacking and if there is one thing that can be read out of it, my technician says that it is the most complete and thorough job he has ever seen attempted. Attempted because the old box crashed on them repeatedly.
Rabbit repeats the vitriol is what you have earned for your blatant dishonesty, nothing else. If you had not played so many tricks of avoidance and dissembling and twisting, but had instead approached the topic with honour, you would not be so disgusting, and Rabbit could easily remain polite but of course you would have lost this argument long ago, because the only way you can continue to carry on is the ignore everything except small deatils and NEVER put the all the known facts into the one context, because they collectively remove the official lie from the realms even, of possibility.
If rabb9it chose to ignore your Expert opinion posted above, what would be the big deal? You have ignored far more of Rabbit’s posts, whenever they contain some particularly telling point or expert opinion, you either stick to character assasination, or ignore it.
So far Rabbit has done neither, the difference to you is that rabbit will not answer until he has looked carefully at things. You just stick to the official line so you always have an off the cuff answer, character attack., That the Rendon Speciality is it?
As for Mac, we all know why you are using that.
Oh and Natalie, the greatest liar on this site. The thread of Radioactive Wounds of War, is long, it is substantial and it absolutely showed that the bulk of the scientific community “KNOWS” that Depleted Uranium is dangerous, the meduical history the scientific history and more and more information which is coming out all make the case completely. The fact that you are so in love with the stuff, is the best proof in the world that you are employed to spread these lies. You would have been running around spruiking for the gas chamber in 1942, that’s obvious.
Natty the thread stands and if anybody wants to see just how big a liar and vicious a mass murdering bitch this is, go and see her whoring her soul for Radioactive Nuclear Waste to be vaporised over civiliands and US Troops alike.
Depleted Uranium is not only an issue you and the Pentagon Shill LtC Roger Helbig lost, utterly, it is also the issue in which he and you were outed as professional Shills, and Rabbit swears this is the truth, for any who would doubt.
By the way Rabbit still thinks you might be Natalie Helbig, you almost convinced him you were not, but something just came up.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 28, 2005 at 6:59 PM
Oh and Natty
You don’t seem to be doing very well, your side seems to be losing. If nobody believes the government out of hand, how the hell do you expect to spin a failing story with so many holes in it, and a massively growing base of support from not only politicians and world leaders, but also from experts and proffessional in many fields and normal people who are waking up to the lies.
according to a Harris poll released by The Wall Street Journal last Wednesday, 64 percent of Americans now believe that the Bush administration “generally misleads the American public on current issues to achieve its own ends.”
Down Down Deeper and down.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 28, 2005 at 7:03 PM
Dpleted Uranium use is also a WAR Crime, except that the USA specifically got an exemption for such war crimes at the start of the Iraq conflict. problem is, now that the proof is in that the War was started on the basis of deliberate lies, that exemption will be illegal too. Eventually your employers are going to be facing the most substantial criminal charges in history. Rabbit predicts that the Tribunals which will eventually examine the gross human rights abuses of the US Junta, will conclude that the USA has been the most horrible perpetrator of evil, genocide, torture, murder and looting. It will be thanks to people like you it went on as long as it still is.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 28, 2005 at 7:09 PM
Your lies are even more obvious when you claim to be so sure that explosives did not bring down the WTC’s, and for your daft information, WTC 7 is almost universally accepted as having been a demolition, The owner admitted it.
the thing is Natalie, no one can deny that the buildings appeared to come down via demolition, this is the only way buildings have fallen in this way. That is a FACT and you cannot deny it, without lying outright. Even if a few, experts seem able to convince themselves that such a thing was possible, that still only says it’s possible. As said nobody can deny they looked like demos and nothing like a gravity collapse. Thus you cannot possibly KNOW that explosives didn’t bring them down. You just can’t and the fact that you say so specifically that you can, has got to be the proof that you are lying, you don’t know that explosives didn’t do it, there is Witness evidence, which is where you ran out on the last thread as I recall. There are lots of witness to explosions, including police, firemen, a Janitor and a further twenty something witnesses. In every way thsoe buildings conformed to controlled demolition, that is the bottom line. If by some small, very debatable, mostly not believed, chance those buildings could have come down in the way you describe, then that is all it is, a chance. It does not account for the witnesses, the expert opinion, like Jones and Reynolds or for the statement about “Pulling” the WTC 7 made by the fraudster Silverstein. It does not account for the molten steel, days later, and it doesn’t account for the pulverisation of the concrete, a minor detail to be sure.
The only evidence which would have proven for sure that explosives did it, was removed from the site VERY FAST and disposed of in record time to China. Odd that. It is also known as perverting the course of justice. Disposing of evidence form a crime scene seems to be a common practice with your Junta doesn;t it? Why do you think that is Natty? Whe nobody believe them anymore, don’t your think they should be doing all they can to prove the truth? If the truth is what they say?
The point is Natty, that most reasonable people are left to conclude that the Government is trying to hide something.
When all available evidence points away from their story, it is only the completely Brainwashed and of course Liars who would try and say “There is no way that pre-positioned explosives were involved” The fact is it is obvious there is every way, but very little way that fire and a plane brought down the Twin Towers and a mere fire brought down WTC-7 even more quickly.
You are clearly only here to push the official line, and truth is absolutely something you think you can create out of thin air.
Where are all your customers?
64% of Americans probably don’t believe yet that the Junta did 911, but 64% of them now know the Bush Junta lies at every chance. Many of them know the truth about 911, and it is only a matter of time before the rest of the 64% do to. Our ranks are growing and yours are shrinking, so it is only a matter of time Natty.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 28, 2005 at 7:33 PM
Yes Rabbit knows he is wacking the Shill on this thread after all, but no-one seems to be using it, and Rabbit did not ask the Vampire to come here, she flew in after running away from defeat on the other thread.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 28, 2005 at 7:38 PM
During the afternoon of 9/11, the Mayor of New York city and the Governor of New York state held a press conference.
Reporters asked 2 interesting questions:
“Is there anything to indicate that there could be MORE BOMBS, more planes out there?”
“So, the only National Guard we’ll see will be in lower Manhattan, in the BOMB site area?”
Neither the Mayor nor the Governor corrected the reporters by stating that there weren’t any bombs, and that—instead—the twin towers had collapsed due solely to airplane and fire damage.
If you were a high-level official trying to calm down the public in a major crisis (which is part of the job description) and there weren’t in fact bombs in t he world trade centers, wouldn’t you have corrected the reporters in order to kill unfounded rumors and minimize panic? Doesn’t this lack of a statement amount to an acknowledgment that the Mayor and Governor believed there were bombs in the twin towers?
By way of analogy, imagine that 10 witnesses say they saw Mike shoot Joe. In a press conference, a reporter asks the police chief if police know why Mike shot Joe, and the chief answers without correcting the reporter. In other words, the police chief does not answer by saying something like “No no, Fred shot Joe” or
“we don’t know who shot Joe yet, we’ve just started investigating”. Isn’t that further circumstantial evidence that tends to show that Mike shot Joe? Doesn’t the silence in the face of bomb-related questions help corroborate the numerous eyewitness statements of bombs in the trade centers, such as the following:
A reporter for USA Today stated that the FBI believed that bombs i n the buildings brought the buildings down;
The NY Fire Department Chief of Safety stated there were “bombs” and “secondary devices”, which caused the explosions in the buildings;
A NYC firefighters who witnessed attacks stated that it looked like there were bombs in the buildings;
A NYC firefighter stated “On the last trip up a bomb went off. We think there was bombs set in the building”;
An MSNBC reporter stated that police had found a suspicious device “and they fear it could be something that might lead to another explosion” and the police officials believe “that one of the explosions at the world trade center . . . may have been caused by a van that was parked in the building that may have had some kind of explosive device in it, so their fear is that there may have been explosive devices planted either in the building or in the adjacent area”;
A NYC firefighter stated “the south tower . . . exploded . . . At that point a debate began to rag e because the perception was that the building looked like it had been taken out with charges . . . many people had felt that possibly explosives had taken out 2 World Trade”;
Assistant Fire Commissioner stated “I thought . . . before . . . No. 2 came down, that I saw low-level flashes. . . . I . . . saw a flash flash flash . . . [at] the lower level of the building [not up where the fire was]. You know like when they . . . blow up a building ... ?”—and a lieutenant firefighter the Commisioner spoke with independently verified the flashes;
A firefighter said “[T]here was just an explosion. It seemed like on television [when] they blow up these buildings. It seemed like it was going all the way around like a belt, all these explosions”; Another firefigther stated “it almost sounded like bombs going off, like boom, boom, boom, like seven or eight”;
A paramedic said “at first I thought it was—do you ever see professional demolition where they se t the charges on certain floors and then you hear pop pop pop pop pop—thats exactly what because thought it was”;
more…...............
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 28, 2005 at 7:47 PM
A police officer noted “People were saying, ‘There’s another one and another one.’ I heard reports of secondary bomb explosions ...”;
A firefighter stated “there was an explosion in the south tower, which . . . just blew out in flames . . . One floor under another after another and when it hit about the fifth floor, I figured it was a bomb, because it looked like a synchronized deliberate kind of thing. I was there in ‘93” (referring to 1993 bombing of world trade center;
A firefighter stated “it looked like sparkling around one specific layer of the building . . . Then the building started to come down. My initial reaction was that this was exactly the way it looks when they show you those implosions on TV”;
Dan Rather said that collapse was “reminiscent of those pictures we’ve all seen [when] a building was deliberately destroyed by well-placed dynamite to knock it down” (CNN’s Aaron Brown and a Fox News reporter also made similar comments);
A British newspaper stated “some eyewitnesses reported hearing another explosion just before the structure crumbled. Police said that it looked almost like a ‘planned implosion’”;
One ABC reporter stated it looked like a controlled demolition; another ABC reporter stated “anyone who has ever watched a building being demolished on purpose knows that if you’re going to do this you have to get at the under-infrastructure of the building to bring it down”;
A reporter for WNYC radio said “The reporters were trying to figure out what had happened. We were thinking bombs had brought the buildings down”;
A Wall Street Journal reporter said “I heard this metallic roar, looked up and saw what I thought was just a peculiar site of individual floors, one after the other exploding outward. I thought to myself, “My God, they’re going to bring the build ing down.” And they, whoever they are, HAD SET CHARGES . . . . I saw the explosions”; and
A facilities manager in the north tower “was convinced that there were bombs planted all over the place and someone was sitting at a control panel pushing detonator buttons”. You can view links to the source materials for all eyewitness quotes at www.911Proof.com .
The 9/11 Commission Report did not even once mention the word “explosion” or “bomb”. The mainstream media hasn’t touched the evidence of bombs in the trade center. Democratic and republican politicans smear anyone who even raises the issue as a conspiracy nut. Isn’t it time that we faced the elephant in the living room? Can our democracy survive if we don’t?
<a href=“http://www.911proof.com/”>All sources linked<a>
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 28, 2005 at 7:50 PM
It just occurred to Rabbit that the Troll Jay finally bit the hay.
Rabbit posted the following immediately before he pulled anchor and sailed away.
<blockquote>By The Way, Jay. The Professor Jones report is the end of the planes and fuel did it case, which is why the government Shill, Natalie, gave up when that came out.
You are the most craven lying little worm Rabbit has ever met. Rabbit is preparing a special Jay post. In this we will be quoting some of Jay
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 28, 2005 at 9:10 PM
What does surprise Rabbit is that you saw the issue, and possibly your name, when after all you have only ever gone to other threads on this site, when one of your ssigned issues is mentioned. That has been few and far between, but just as with Depleted Uranium on the Unnatural Disaster thread, where you magically appeared after being exclusively on the Radioactive Wounds of War Thread. The connection being your assigned issue. That time Rabbit baited the thread in a deliberate effort to get you and Roger to prove your complicity, which you did handsomely. This time it is just a random occurence, but it suggests that someone is reading all these threads, sifting through them, watching for the “Issues” which the company is assigned to protect.
So how is Mr Rendon Natty?
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 28, 2005 at 9:18 PM
On the Hijackers, the first thing you can forget is trying to chase red herrings. It is you who is demanding video footage as proof that the men are alive, it is not necessary and as said, the fact that the governmnet won’t release most of the footage to show they have not simply added those ID’s after the fact, which is by the way what most of us believe.
They have used these peoples names and made claims based on the fact they were pilots and other supposedly incriminating evidence and yet they were not involved. Places of birth, birthdays and other personal details were displayed on news throughout the world
Sorry Natty if it was a case of mistaken or false identity they could have claimed that early on but it is too late.
The FBI press release of September 27th, 2001 contained names, photographs, aliases and other information.
Places of birth, date of birth and other personal details were presented in news media throughout the world.
Eight men accused were NOT on those planes. The so called evidence IS A LIE
So, WHY was Bush allowed to proceed with war against Afghanistan!!!!!!!!!
Saeed Al-Ghamdi, Mohand Al-Shehri, Abdul Aziz Al-Omari and Salem Al-Hazmi
“are not dead and had nothing to do with the heinous terror attacks in New York and Washington.”
The Saudi Arabian embassy told The Orlando Sentinel.
Saudi Arabia’s Foreign Minister Prince Saud Al-Faisal told the Arabic Press after meeting with President George W. Bush
on Sept. 20th “It was proved that five of the names included in the FBI list had nothing to do with what happened.”
As none of the 19 hijackers named appear on ANY of the four passenger/crew flight lists, how do the FBI
know who they are? They are all DEAD! The so called flying capabilities of the ‘hijackers’ is also a HUGE lie.
Information below has not only been carried by the Saudi Gazette (September 18) and
the Khaleej Times (September 20) but also by Robert Fisk in the Independent UK (September 17).
Robert Mueller, director of the FBI, has twice been forced to admit on CNN that there is
“no legal proof to prove the identities of the suicidal hijackers” (CNN, September 20 and 27).
Read on to discover what the FBI told the public and what came to light…
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 28, 2005 at 9:35 PM
Abdulaziz Al-Omari Number 1
Al-Omari lives with his wife and four children in Saudi Arabia. Mr. Al-Omari, a pilot with Saudi Airlines,
walked into the US embassy in Jeddah to demand why he was being reported as a dead hijacker in the
American media. BBC 23rd September 2001
a) “A pilot with Saudi Airlines, was astonished to find himself accused of hijacking as well as being dead
and has visited the US consulate in Jeddah to demand an explanation.” Independent 17th September 2001
b) “Al-Omari may have lived in Hollywood, Fla. and is reported to have lived with his wife and four school-age children
in a rented house in Vero Beach, Fla., moving out on Sept. 3, telling his landlord he was returning home.” WRONG!
CBS, 9/27/01
Natty just because something is not reported in the controlled American Media, doesn’t mean it isn’t news, it generally just means it is not good news for the Fraudulent American Corporate Criminal Junta.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 28, 2005 at 9:39 PM
MORE details
Now we do know that there has been a couple of feeble attempts to spin this to mean that the ID’s were stolen and used by Bin Laden’s people. There is a very good reason why these do not ever go far, and it is you professional Liars who will not touch that excuse, and this is in itself a puzzle. Why wouldn’t the Liars say that the ID’s were simply being used by others? That would kill this issue dead in the grass. Why would that be?
Simple. The whole case of it being hijackers rests on the details of flight training and, living arrangements etc of these men, and the living men have confirmed these details to be true at least, if the ID’s were stolen, then none of the case they have created for the nineteen alleged hijackers stands up. It has then got NOTHING, not even a passport to suggest any middle eastern hijackers, except of course all the information which it appears they had beforehand but ignored, which is leaking out on a daily basis almost.
That has the baggage of proving the Government foreknowledge. Not a good scene here Natty, not really looking good for your very strange and miraculous theories.
The weight of evidence, of history and credibility (Witholding evidence) is decidedly against your cause surviving much longer.
Down Down deeper and down.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 28, 2005 at 9:51 PM
Here it was all along on 911 Research when Rabbit first asked you how you accounted for this months ago.
This one is even more intesresting The fact that they have cobbled together some ID’s out of two separate individuals is really fascinating. Especially when BOTH are alive and well.
Have a look at this link people it really does make the whole ID thing one very good likeness of a smoking gun, in as much as an FBI frame-up goes.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 28, 2005 at 9:57 PM
Sory to interrupt ... just heard this on an advertisement for some (adult political) cartoon on television :
Jesus was black.
Ronald Raygun was the devil.
The government is lying about 9/11.
Will try to bring more details if I see/hear it again.
Posted by David in Canada on Nov 28, 2005 at 11:39 PM
... my spin on it ... another piece of propaganda pie, sliced and served, to chew on and spit out.
It will be interesting to see how mainstream 9/11 lies become.
Posted by David in Canada on Nov 29, 2005 at 12:56 AM
Serious question :
Is addressing it and laughing at it by way of a cartoon, with the associated lines quoted above, helping or hurting?
Posted by David in Canada on Nov 29, 2005 at 1:00 AM
Yes, David, it is interesting to wonder what the effect would be, should the deliberate implosion theory become truly mainstream. So far as I ‘m aware, Prof. Jones is the first proponent of such to appear anywhere in the mainstream news, even landing an interview on a low rated cable news network. (MSNBC)
However, his first appearance was his last. For reasons unknown, Jones has sequestered himself from further interviews.
I’m not sure if anyone knows exactly who is going to publish his paper, and whether it HAS been peer-reviewed, is GOING to be peer-reviewed, and what exactly constitutes peer review for the purpose of this particular publication.
Anyway, on one hand I would be thrilled to see this issue come out in the open and see how it fares. But the risk from my POV is that a substantial number of people will believe almost anything. (We remember the polls on Saddam and 9/11, a majority thought Saddam was involved)
A huge number of people believe in such things as crop circles, alien abductions, etc., because examples of complicated mosaics in fields are shown, and lots of people testify believably about being abducted. But recently, there was a balanced presentation on TV that exposed the tricks of crop circle pranksters, the camera trick manufacture of video “evidence” of white flashes appearing to create one, and explanations for why lots of people think they’ve been abducted, but actually it’s only the result of sleep paralysis and dreaming. This even changed the dissapointed mind of my seven year old son, who’s pretty stubborn about his beliefs.
So I guess it comes down to how the issues surrounding 9/11 are presented. If it’s done in a balanced way, I think believers in bombs and plots will wish it had never made it out in the light. They will be publicly humiliated, whereas now scarcely anybody is even aware that such theories exist. The first time I was aware of such theories was shortly after finding out that the chief pushers of the DU scare story also actually believed a missile had hit the Pentagon, instead of a plane. I don’t think even Rabbit believes that anymore, at least not until Barbara Olson appears on TV intact.
Posted by Natalie on Nov 29, 2005 at 9:13 AM
Natalie Rabbit is now going to take you apart once and for all, your lies are tiresome, your avoidance and pretence is pathetic and not even amusing anymore. You have not made even a shread of a case for anything, except that you are so determinde to maintain a LIE against all evidence and logic. I cannot pretend that you are merely deluded, becaus eth level of avoidance is legend, you have avoided any serious discussion about the most damning facts preferring to ebgage in character assasination of people you are not fit to clean the shoes of. people who have shown courage more than great intelligence, because it does not take any great intelligence to understand the enormity of the evidence which renders the official lie totally unbelievable. You have already exposed your craven support for all things government, because it would seem that you are employed to do so, the games on the DU thread were the proof, deary because as it was being pointed out to you then, and nothing has ever given reason to doubt this since, nobody, absolutely nobody actually believes that Depleted Uranium Weapons are not hideous, and deadly. The next crop of birth deformities are now beggining to be reported and the world community outside America, is now looking more and more at the issue, we have had a couple of TV programs on it over here, and believe me a lot of Australians are waking up fast. These days about every second person Rabbit speaks to is already educated and they are not happy. The Site Trolls would not even touch the issue. There was only ever two SHILLS, outed in the first page or two, named even, who supported it for more than a token couple who also turned out to be connected to the liars, and ran away when it was obvious. Everyone else, dozens and dozens of them, went from shock that anyone could defend the stuff, to outrage that anyone would especially with all the truth on that thread to see. you can’t revise the history Natty, the thread is there and it is being recommended about the internet as a very comprehensive coverage of the issue together with a direct observation of the Pentagon Shills pushing the official line. You presneted all you had, you gave it up a dpzen times, over and over you repeated it, and it was demolished. In every way imaginable by experts, by soldiers by all sorts of people, the official line you spun, was found wanting, it was washed up, lady and so were you. Furthermore you were humiliated and had your proverbial nose shoved up your own bunghole so many times that you came out looking like a broken wheel.
You even regularly danced like a monkey when Rabbit laid obvious traps for you, or led you around by the nasty nose.
Thus you were gotten from the DU thread, to the God Squad thread where Rabbit wanted a better foil for posting 911 information, since Jay was being useless, just a really cowardly Troll, who gave up on this issue to, why do you think he ran away Natty? Just the scary Rabbit? Maybe he had found an issue which was so big, so glaringly obvious there was nothing even a skungy Troll could do to avoid accepting the truth. You know something Natty, Rabbit has seen many people accept the truth and they don’t suddenly change, have a moment of epiphany and report the fact. What happens Natty is that they go all limp, and fade away.
They may well return, under a new handle and so radically different you would never know it, though Rabbit has seen one he thinks, one who both he and a friend think may have been a really stupid God Bothering and self loving troll somewhere but who got crushed, then popped up here, under another name, and much more sensible, not much God either.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 29, 2005 at 7:38 PM
How many people has Natty seen “get well”, change their ideas to see the truth you think you espouse? Any converts lately? If you say so, everyone, will know you are lying, so don’t do it. If everyone knows you are a liar, and also knows the truth, they have shown it, then why would yoiu persist in lying, unless you possess a craven soul. A sick massochistic sort of thing it is.
There is nothing you can show us which we have not seen. many of us have read the offiical reports, and it is easy to find, I have posted, well referenced refutations of the reports and each and every “Expert” you have produced which so far amounts to about three, and they are all old cases, using false information as has also been shown.
There is still no way you or anyone can refute all the Witness evidence, a good deal of which has been outlined for about the sixth time and you have as usual nothing substantial to say.
Your theory for theory is all it is, remains challenged by the following:
—Up to eight of the “alleged hijackers”, are alive and well.
—The buildings fell in a manner consistent with controlled demolitions in “every respect”.
—The above fact has been acknowledged by numerous experts and anybody with a bit of demolition experience. Professional Pyrotechnicians, which includes Rabbit, also recognised certain pyrotechnic effects which were not naturally occurring, ie: they were special effects. Or at least they were not just a couple of plane of jet fuel igniting upon crashing into the buildings.
—The collapse of the WTC 7 cannot be explained without explosives, and the owner slipped up early on by stating that the building was “Pulled”, demolished.
—No planes crashing into a building or fires alone have caused such a collapse, or indeed any major collapse in history, these fires were despite occasioanl attempts to say otherwise, obviously of short duration, and relatively cold f by building fire standards.
—There are “numerous” witness reports, from police, firemen, building staff, a priest, members of the public and contractors, to the FACT that there were a serious of explosions preceding the collapse, experienced firefighters stated they were excatly the same as with building demolitions. Further more there are more than twenty witnesses to the fact that there was an explosion in the basement of at least on WTC…........ BEFORE…...The plane hit, and one of them was burned horribly by it and evacuated before the plane hit.
—There were molten pools of STEEL below ground days after the collapse, not only could fire and collapse not have done this, the only explosive which could probably do it, short of a micro-nuke is Thermite.
—The government removed ALL the structural evdence and had it destroyed overseas. The FBI has confiscated all photo and video evidence and is refusing to allow anyone to see it, including the “SO CALLED” investigations it trots out once in a while. This is considered PROOF of complicity in a court of law.
—Something very funny was going on with a bunch of Israeli Spies who were dancing around a video camera which was set up on a tripod and had captured the whole attack sequence, from the first plane to the collapses. They also had explosive residues in their vehicle. They were released quickly and quietly back to Israel.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 29, 2005 at 8:07 PM
—More and more evidence is being uncovered and more and more experts are finally breaking their silence, a silence not surpriing given the enormous ramifications of these findings. It is obvious to anyone, and it has happened to many, that to stand up and speak out, will be a destructive career move, at least and more than likely will see the person persecuted even to the extent of being killed. Obviously the Governmnet has to be involved since the buildings were demolished, even most lay persons realise that demolishing a building like that is very complex and a lot of work not done in a few hours. If they can so callously kill three thousand of their own, shit a lot of these turkeys were slick street, then what chance does a single person have who might challenge that monster?
These above things are FACTS. They are not opinions. they are the basis upon which one might form a theory, an opinion if you will. You can only be seen as a prevaricator or Liar if you try and challenge the facts, you’ve tried to challenge the theories by putting up some half assed report by someone, which is peripheral, discludes vital information in its theses and is invariably not doing more than concluding an outside possibility of the official story, none of them can detract from the fact that this is the first time any such event has occurred and probability is trillions to one against it happening twice on the same day, but to happen a third time is just getting….well….Those monkeys will produce a copy of Hamlet and a whole telelision series, before that is likely to happen. That is why it needs some some of report to explain how it happened and never was any such report less forthcoming. There is not a rising tide of acceptance of the official story, the tide is going the other way, your margin is shrinking daily as has been pointed out.
You ignore the simple FACTS, from which anybody can derive the same conclusion as a professor, you challenge instead the character of people whose shoes you are probably not fit to clean. You would not know, but rather than look at the facts and how they relate you would attck someone and at least smear them with dirty innuendos if you have nothing else. Your absences from the threads everytime you are in a bind, are obvious, and always end with you popping up, again and maybe taking over from some much earlier point you had perhaps avoided once but now see as preferable to the one you ran away from.
I’m calling you a shill and you are behaving exactly like one and I am once again calling you a shill. Rabbit just has a feeling you are not as stupid as you seem, therefore you know the truth, about this and DU. Even if by association, why would they have you shilling for these things if they were not lies? This makes you a very nasty person in my view. Even if you have to do it to feed your child or support your old man or something. Do you think they will spare you? You know how they did it, just because you helped, they have no loyalty to you, you are a patsy, the human shield, and they’ll trash you just for a diversion while they get some money moved around.
The truth needs nothing except exposure. There are no shills for the 911 truth movement. There are no shills for the Anti-DU movement. All the reactionary movements which grow out of truths that become big enough to attract enough attention, all these movements rely only on two things. the truth, and spreading it. The people do the rest. All we get out of spreading the truth, is a bigger band of recruiters and empowered people.
With LIES, as Bush himself recently pointed out, you have to keep on repeating them. Over and over for the LIES to sink in.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 29, 2005 at 8:29 PM
Truth needs only to be heard once. Of course it can be said many times without someone hears it, but one day, the words go in and the mind turns over and the truth is seen, it is gradual, and then finally a point of balance is reached after which the progress is rapid. With eys open more and more light comes in and one adjusts ones eyes to the light again.
About this point those newly awakened souls become missionaries among their peers, for a while. Inevitably they are forced to re-evaluate some of their aqaintances as the true depth of others delusion becomes apparent, typically though they evolve along with friends and family, it is quicker than religion Natty, religion is just an idea. Truth, logic, reason, these things are actually much more appealing than faith.
You should try it sometime, in the meantime, you are just making a fool of yourself. Call me a fool but do you notice anybody worth a pinch of shit laughing at Rabbit?
David I think that making a cartoon about it, or hearing about it in jokes etc, is trivialising it. For too many people they are so brainwashed that even when the truth becomes totally manistream, (By the way Natty, Jones is not the first Manistream report you have been shown about ten more MSM reports about various experts and even the Ex German Defence Minister,...how many lies can she tell till she knows…..that too many lies have been told..),
.............even when the truth becomes mainstream, the sheeple will not form any conclusions about it other than what they ar told to conclude.
IE: It was necessary from some viewpoint above ours and we can basically accept it, the victims would have been proud to be sacrificed in the cause of Freedom and Security.
Their sacrifice was to save millions of us from dying instead.
Maybe, the government had uncovered secret documents and a video proving that Osama Bin Laden was really planning a much more horrific attack, using Nuclear weapons supplied by Iraq and Iran. While based in his cave in Afghanstan of course. So the Americans devised a clever plan to pre-empt the attack by demolishing a couple of recently overinsured buildings, and a building full of nothing except lots of old Government records. This allowed the master plan to go into effect and they could attack all three Terrorist Nations.
Now the program will return to pictures of Depleted Uranium Deformed Muslim babies for our viewers enjoyment. See these babies and know that you are safe from them ever growing up to become terrorists…...........America…........America ............. AMERICA the BRAVE….....................
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 29, 2005 at 8:41 PM
<b>Some of them will buy it Nat, and you will be the one to sell it I’m sure.<b>
Have they promised not to send your child to war? or have they promised he won’t have to use depleted Uranium Weapons when they do? Have they promised you anything except a job? Maybe he’ll get health cover to be screened for Depleted Uranium poisoning at least. Or maybe you believe it is all you say? If so, Natty Rabbit sincerely wishes this opportunity shall arise for your sun, he does a little rabbit dance of magic when saying tha, and if Rabbit is perchance more righteous than thou, Frau, it shall be, trust me.
So many things you don’t believe in.
Guess how many of those things are changed by your beliefs?
NONE
They are like all things waiting to be found, or ignored, by people who would rather imagine something instead.
Ignoring the rock in the middle of the path will not stop it tripping you.
Pretending the stone is bread, will not get your children fed.
Living a lie is bound to bring anyone down, finally.
This is the fate of the USA. Living a lie too long, they are now about to find out they are wrong.
The change will not be easy, your masters won’t go quietly, but imagine the rage when you are finally run to ground.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 29, 2005 at 9:32 PM
Excellent summary Rabbit.
Don’t forget the insider trading and put options on airline stocks just before 9/11.
David I think that making a cartoon about it, or hearing about it in jokes etc, is trivialising it. For too many people they are so brainwashed that even when the truth becomes totally mainstream, the sheeple will not form any conclusions about it other than what they are told to conclude.
Yeah, propaganda pie, looks yummy but leaves a bad taste in your mouth. Some people don’t realize they are eating shit. They swallow it down , tell us it tastes just fine and show us a big shit eating grin.
Spit it out sheeple.
Posted by David in Canada on Nov 29, 2005 at 9:35 PM
Natty in honour of you, Rabbit has begun a project, it will be aimed specifically at the things you have helped identify as weak stones under the temple of Babylon. You have by your own acts shown what is your worst fears. These qare the things Rabbit will be using you for. You will be used, as your wrods are imortalised. they will be placed under a maginfying glass, and you as well as your tactics also, will be seen as part of the exercise. Don’t worry everything you said will be included, you are one of the star attractions. It is only a beggining but it is another and there are many more people doing things and spreading the word.
If your case was well made, then you should be glad, because imagine how all those new people being able to hear your words, especially when most of the rubbish is cut away, leaving what you are actually saying much more clear without all the guf and interruptions., imagine how enlightened they will become from seeing it all so clearly.
Oh Goody goody, don’t you think?
Anyway on behalf of the Hunters and Collectors Society, of MSTSM, Rabbit thnks you for your contributions so far, and we promise you will be given a very prominent display in the Museum, of Shills, Trolls and Special Morons.
You will be famous, along with your extra special efforts for Depleted Uranium Propaganda and defending the biggest LIE of the century.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 29, 2005 at 9:43 PM
Alongside of Daddy Helbig of course. Say hello from Rabbit. Give his regards to Mr Rendon if you see him too.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 29, 2005 at 9:46 PM
Another small observation of a Natty lie. Rabbit never did say he believed in the Missile hitting the Pentagon, but there is no proof that one didn’t since the government has withheld the videos as said. There is credible evidence for this and several other possibilities, but that doesn’t mean Rabbit has formed a firm opinion. As for Barabar Olsen, that whole issue was to rabbit’s credit, because he heard about it, checked it and reported the facts as they were known, without any dissembling or ever once comitting himself to things he could not know, unlike Natty who “knows” that fire alone can do what has formerly always involved much preparation, experts and EXPLOSIVES. Now considering the facts, the contradictory witness reports and all the expert evidence which is growing, it is an incredible act of faith for you to pretend there is anything except egg on your face.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 29, 2005 at 9:52 PM
Dave and Rabbit love Parables eh?
they are so much more eloquent and precise than mere reporting. The sheeple are as always impervious to anything but the program.
But one program is older still,
Lets the truth be heard through lies and the swill
The art belongs solely to the Bard and Poet
When time calls these gentle souls come to know it
The truth is not changed, just re-arranged into forms
Which even the blind braindead Sheeple can percieve.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 29, 2005 at 10:24 PM
You’ve raised a lot of dust here recently Rabbit, since I responded to your assertion about the “surviving hijackers”. Is it perhaps to obscure the fact that you indeed aren’t able to link me to any videos of these men, enabling us to compare them to the photos in the commission report?
If I was wrongly accused of murdering 2000 or so people and destroying billions worth of property, I think I would seek out the nearest reporter with a camera to clear my name. I think that reporter would be extremely interested in a blockbuster story such as this, and would be more than cooperative.
Speaking of dust, are you aware of how much drywall and other lightweight “pulverizeable” materials were in those towers? The notion that all the concrete turned to powder is I’m quite sure a result of ignoring the fact that there was probably at least as much volume of these materials present as there was cement, which also was a lightweight variety, and in thin layers.
Are you aware of how much energy was generated by the fall of those blocks of upper stories and the subsequent fall of the lower floors? There was plenty of energy to account for virtually all of the strange happenings that are on one level understandably confused with being the result of exposives. And you know what? Strange things HAPPEN in extraoridinary events such as this. Strange and seemingly unexplainable things happen in tornados and hurricanes. They happen in car wrecks. But they happen.
So we’re back to Ms. Helbig now, are we? You’ve demonstrated that you’ll believe virtually anything if it serves to reinforce your mistaken and warped view of America and what motivates it.
We’re still waiting for the name of that STRUCTURAL engineer that supports your theories. It strikes me as strange from a common sense POV, that none of the people that were responsible for building and designing the towers have found anything particularly strange about how they collapsed.
Oh geez, watch him come up with a name now. I should know better than to issue such challenges.
Posted by Natalie on Nov 30, 2005 at 9:50 AM
Natalie, lying Natalie, Rabbit has answered you, you have had more than enough reports and photo’s, they are credible media reports all of them they are all there to be read, nobody including the FBI is trying to say these men are not alive. You are the one saying a Video tape is the only proof, and while there are reports of such for some, I am not interested in bothering hunting it down. The media reports refer to credited journalists saying they have interviewed the men, and they are satisfied it is them. Actually the last thing they want is to be killed by your nasty people, which is why they are all keeping low since.
The engineers and many other people have been mentioned, you’ve never mentioned Von Bulow, why not Natty? You are the one setting the target of structural engineers or viedos of people, which you and I know would prove nothing any differnetly and then you will just say that. Give it a rest, just because you are an idiot…......How would you know how non-idiots think I guess?
You don’t get to set the standards of proof here girly. You have shown a complete lack of ethics, of honesty of compassion or of reasoning skills, do you seriously expect to call the shots?
The case for the demolition of the buildings is beyond reproach, and you saying otherwise doesn’t make it otherwise, it just makes you deluded or dishonest.
The case for the Government foreknowledge is also made and that is why so many people are coming to accept this. You saying this isn’t so, and repeatedly ignoring and repeating the lie, doesn’t make it true or any more believable. In fact the more you avoid, the more you maintain a theory which has never had more than very questionable and fast dropping support, the more unconvincing you become.
The info is there, nobody but you is pretending otherwise, and you can’t be convinced…. because you are a SHILL. So don’t carry on like an idiot anymore. Nobody is listening, Rabbit is just idly wacking you now, for fun, the issue is covered, long used up and so are you.
Do you have any more tricks, Vampire? What about Torture?
Now that Torture is official policy, not just the thing we do when nobody is looking, how does Natty feel about it? Is Natty glad that the Bush Junta thinks it a good idea to torture the people as well as poison them and their home? Of course you do. Good SHILL!
You have lost and Rabbit never expects you to admit it, but the thread stands as proof once again.
As for who ignores or does not ignore anything…..CLOWN.
Rabbit ignores nothing of consequence, you mention nothing of consequence. Deal with the FACTS stop arguing an untenable theory against FACTS. For all your paltry attempts to tear at the fabric of truth, to cover and decieve, you have never addressed the facts, which EXCLUDE your theory altogether and WE know it. Instead you ignore them and make a pitiful and transparent attack on the characters, the qualifications, the honesty everything but the FACTS which are so damning. You do not need to be convinced, you’re a shill. You have behaved like a good Patsy for Rabbit now bugger off you stupid broad, you haven’t won any supporters, even the Trolls have abandoned you.
Rabbit loathes you and knows everything you say is a Lie or intended to support a LIE. You are not a mother either, good try, no mother could do the things you do. This is not the issue, any braindead turkey could carry on about 911, but nobody except someone paid to do it, is saying Depleted Uranium isn’t Satan’s Tool.
Suck eggs, Vampire.
Last but not least, the things Natty is now raising have been dealt with despite her denials, a reading of the God Squad Thread, will show this, if anybody cares.
All the proof that Natty is Batty.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 30, 2005 at 5:47 PM
Are you aware of how much energy was generated by the fall of those blocks of upper stories and the subsequent fall of the lower floors?
Yes Natalie, I am, it was able to be estimated precisely, that is what physicists and engineers do. unless of course they are employed by the US government to report, in which case they selectively take facts, set up theoretical models to test the results of what they are trying to prove happened, and tweak things until they get the results sought.
Rabbit has read the official reports and seen the rubbish, they ignore so much and obviously began with a conclusion. It has been covered elsewhere. They did not of course take the actual energy into account, they just say generically that the energy could have done it. That isn’t science, that is politics.
Professor Jones deals with all that in his report, and it is short and concise, go and read some science yourself and stop asking dumb questions as if they are rhetorical. if you don’t know the answers, don’t assume everybody is equally dumb.
Funny you should talk about some alleged hijacker wanting to clear his name, Rabbit has repeatedly asked why would the government not release a few unclassified video tapes, which would clear it’s name in an instant?
You liars are all the same, you actually think you can look innocent while hiding something behind your back, which we saw you put there.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 30, 2005 at 5:59 PM
Whatever strange things happen in accidents, like the collapsing of scyscrapers from short lived and cool fire alone, there is a thing in science called probability.
Now Natty, if the probability of such an accident happening for the first time, is 100:1, that would be conservative, actually it is probably 1000:1 or more, but then the probability of it happening twice in a row, is not merely once in 200, sweety, it becomes 10,000:1, against. Can Natty guess what the probability of it happening three times in a row is?
Rabbit is not a Gambler, but from the look if it, Natty had better not be.
Posted by Rabbit on Nov 30, 2005 at 6:26 PM
First Skscraper in history to fall into it’s own footprint in a perfect demolition pattern, without the aid of pre-placed explosives. Chance against it happening conservatively estimated at 100:1 against.
Twice in a row 10,000:1 against.
Three times in a row, 1,000,000:1 against.
Chance that government is telling the truth about 911, is thus, 1,000,000:1 against, at a conservative estimate.
Seems pretty clear to Rabbit who are the lunatics.
Trusting a Government on faith, (because it is witholding all evidence), and against such odds as those conservative estimates.
That is lunatic behaviour anywhere they know how to wipe their own arses.
Time is on our side, time can only undo the lie, it will never be kind to the liar when first the lie is known.
It is known, Rabbit tells you it is known.. He is not saying what he believes, he knows what is not, and by process of elimination he knows then what is.
911 was planned, executed and carried out by high authority from with the US government and intelligence apparatus. Rabbit has no doubt that the culprits are far beyond the relatively petty power of the office of the POTUS. He could not concieve of even this fucked up plan, and he is only a co-driver anyway. He is in the drivers seat but is strictly forbidden to touch any of the buttons or controls. He is like Maggie in the Car with Marge at the start of the Simpsons. Beep Beep.
Cheney is his Marge but even he is a piece not a player.
The most high of the guilty are probably known but vaguely by name and we may not normally associate them with world events. There are nonetheless many lower levels of culpability, and these are giving way and will continue to collapse over time, and like all truths they will out, in time.
Posted by Rabbit on Dec 2, 2005 at 12:32 AM
—Up to eight of the “alleged hijackers”, are alive and well.
And no video of any of them. How convenient. How ridiculous. Not even Judge Jones mentions this nonsense.
—The buildings fell in a manner consistent with controlled demolitions in “every respect”.
Every event is perfectly explainable and has been by people actually qualified to do so. The same kind of people that were responsible for designing and building the towers, no job for small minds, that. Do you think that Judge Jones would be capable of specifying the structural specifications necessary for keeping near quarter mile high buildings standing and operating? What makes you think that he is qualified to determine the method of their demise? Much less yourself or some theology professor. Crickey!
So much for all Jones’s colleagues agreeing with him:
Brigham Young University has a policy of academic freedom that supports the pursuit and dissemination of knowledge and ideas. Through the academic process, ideas should be advanced, challenged, and debated by peer-review in credible venues. We believe in the integrity of the academic review process and that, when it is followed properly, peer-review is valuable for evaluating the validity of ideas and conclusions.
The University is aware that Professor Steven Jones’s hypotheses and interpretations of evidence regarding the collapse of World Trade Center buildings are being questioned by a number of scholars and practitioners, including many of BYU’s own faculty members. Professor Jones’s department and college administrators are not convinced that his analyses and hypotheses have been submitted to relevant scientific venues that would ensure rigorous technical peer review. The structural engineering faculty in the Fulton College of Engineering and Technology do not support the hypotheses of Professor Jones.
Peer-less
—The above fact has been acknowledged by numerous experts and anybody with a bit of demolition experience. Professional Pyrotechnicians, which includes Rabbit, also recognised certain pyrotechnic effects which were not naturally occurring, ie: they were special effects. Or at least they were not just a couple of plane of jet fuel igniting upon crashing into the buildings.
This is a new one. Can you produce the testimony of a certified demolition professional that endorses your theory, much less a structural engineer? How many buildings have you demolished by explosives, Rabbit? Surely you have pictures. Blowing up models with firecrackers doesn’t count.
—The collapse of the WTC 7 cannot be explained without explosives, and the owner slipped up early on by stating that the building was “Pulled”, demolished.
Right. I’m sure that’s what he meant. He couldn’t posssibly have meant that it’s time to pull the team out because collapse is inevitable. There is documented accounts from NYFD team leaders experienced in determining when it’s time to get out of a building urging just that. There was a substantial bulge in the building that signaled inevitable structural failure. There was major structual damage to the building caused by the collapse of the the big tower. But no, it had to be because of explosives. There’s just no other explanation.
cont…..
Posted by Natalie on Dec 4, 2005 at 3:09 PM
pg. 2
—No planes crashing into a building or fires alone have caused such a collapse, or indeed any major collapse in history, these fires were despite occasioanl attempts to say otherwise, obviously of short duration, and relatively cold f by building fire standards.
Well I might mention just in passing that at least from my memory, no near quarter mile tall skyscrapers of the unique and “innovative” design of the WTC towers have been hit deliberately by large jet liners full of fuel, had several structual members severed or badly damaged and had God knows how intense of fires distorting lightweight trusses and newly naked steel columns. Nobody knows exactly how hot the fires were, but hundreds of experts in steel contruction and design have explained that collapse was perfectly understandable even if the fires were not all that hot. And BTW, the portion of the Madrid tower (you brought it up) that had unprotected steel did indeed collapse.
—There are “numerous” witness reports, from police, firemen, building staff, a priest, members of the public and contractors, to the FACT that there were a serious of explosions preceding the collapse, experienced firefighters stated they were excatly the same as with building demolitions. Further more there are more than twenty witnesses to the fact that there was an explosion in the basement of at least on WTC…........ BEFORE…...The plane hit, and one of them was burned horribly by it and evacuated before the plane hit.
Now this is simply unbelievable. Do you honestly think, as is the case with the supposedly “surviving” hijackers, if this was indeed the case, that this remarkable story would never have been told? Explosions BEFORE the planes hit? All these people ignored by trust me, Bush hating reporters, ever eager for a new angle and a big story? Give me a break. You really don’t understand American media if you think that they would hesitate to embrace claims such as this that would do great damage to their almost universal nemisis, GWB, unless of course presenting them would leave both they and the “witnesses” looking equally foolish. There is hope, though. Dan Rather’s memos fooled them.
—There were molten pools of STEEL below ground days after the collapse, not only could fire and collapse not have done this, the only explosive which could probably do it, short of a micro-nuke is Thermite.
Thermite is not an explosive, so that conflicts with your “many explosions heard” argument, does it not? No doubt you’ll say there were both. Judge Jones doesn’t think it was molten STEEL, btw. Don’t blaspheme your new God.
“In particular, photos and analyses of the molten metal (probably not molten steel) observed in the basements of both Towers and WTC7 need to be brought forth to the international community of scientists and engineers immediately.” ...Steven E. Jones “peer reviewed” report.
cont…...
Posted by Natalie on Dec 4, 2005 at 3:12 PM
pg. 3
—The government removed ALL the structural evdence and had it destroyed overseas. The FBI has confiscated all photo and video evidence and is refusing to allow anyone to see it, including the “SO CALLED” investigations it trots out once in a while. This is considered PROOF of complicity in a court of law.
Clearly erroneous. If you had been able or willing to view the Berkley Arab steel structure expert’s report, you would have learned that he had access to plenty of structural evidence. It is obvious from the NIST report that plenty of steel was preserved for study:
“The Structural Engineers Association of New York (SEAoNY), later supplemented by NIST personnel, spent countless hours selecting steel in the New Jersey recycling yards for later forensic analysis. After shipment to NIST, the Metallurgy Division cataloged the 236 recovered steel components. Since many pieces were stamped and painted with unique serial numbers correlated with the building plans, it was often possible to identify the exact original location in the building.
Steel specifications also regulate the chemical compositions. More than 350 different specimens, representing nearly every relevant steel component in the building, were analyzed for chemical composition and all of the sections relevant to the investigation. The chemical analysis helped confirm archival information that an American steel mill supplied steel for parts of the perimeter columns. The analyses also support the conclusion that the steels in the buildings met the specifications called for in the building plans.
NOT a pdf
Do you have any idea how much material was in that pile, Rabbit? Do you have space to keep it all until Judge Jones says it’s ok to melt it? The FBI doesn’t going around sharing evidence, except with Bob Woodward, but they confiscated it? Please show me a REAL news report that confirms this. There’s tons of photos and video out there publicly available. NIST is soliciting for more from anyone and everyone. And you’re a lawyer, too, apparently. When that Rodriguez case goes to trial, that’s all they need. The fact that the govt. won’t release information PROVES their case for them. That was easy! Lawyerin’s not so hard!!
—Something very funny was going on with a bunch of Israeli Spies who were dancing around a video camera which was set up on a tripod and had captured the whole attack sequence, from the first plane to the collapses. They also had explosive residues in their vehicle. They were released quickly and quietly back to Israel.
This seems to be a recurring theme among you Islamic terrorism deniers. The Jews are responsible. Earlier, on the God squad thread, you proudly posted a link to a holocaust-denier/sympathizer site. It was: http://www.erichufschmid.net/Conspiracies12.htm. Are you a denier Rabbit? Do you harbor ill-feeling toward Israel and the Jews? Is this one of the things that’s driving all this nonsense? To quote Liz: “Oh dear”. I don’t think you can blame me for wondering, especially after this Israeli spy claim, which is another “WebFAIRY” tale, I’m quite confident.
cont….....
Posted by Natalie on Dec 4, 2005 at 3:14 PM
pg. 4
You seem willing to believe virtually anything that happens to reflect badly on America, Britain and even Australia for taking action to defend against Islamic terrorism and totalitarianism.
Gerard Mathew’s baby is missing fingers certainly because her dad breathed a few DU molecules, even though the dozens of people who were actually in tanks hit by friendly fire DU have had no abnormal rates of deformed offspring, and exposure to radiation is not even an indicator of offspring defects. You’re very open to the possibility that American flight 77 didn’t really crash into the Pentagon and Barbara Olson is alive:
“Rabbit is of the Opinion only that the aircraft which hit the Pentagon, was a smaller jet at least, and was preceded by a missile, or it was pre-comstructed to break the re-inforcing of that particular part of the wall. There doesn’t appear to be any reason to believe that it was flight 77, for sure. The most disturbing part of the whole picture is always, and Rabbit dreads the answer, what happened in reality to the Passengers. Sometimes I go to sleep at night wondering and restless about this.” Posted by Rabbit on Nov 1, 2005 at 2:38 AM
14-16 seconds is close enough to free fall time for you; apparently you think the buildings should have hung in mid-air for minutes. For some reason, you find it strange that tons of drywall, fibrous ceiling tile and lightweight concrete would make a big dust cloud. You thought it credible and worthy of mention a report that a missile was fired from the Woolworth building. I am Mrs. Helbig, daughter Helbig, a government SHILL, at least. You think people are trying to hack into your computer, apparently because they are afraid the mighty kayaking Rabbit is hot on their trail.
What’s next? The levees were bombed?
Posted by Natalie on Dec 4, 2005 at 3:19 PM
Natty is the only one specifying video, but Rabbit has said he can’t be bothered playing anymore. There happens to be Video, but out of contempt for you Rabbit will not even bother posting a link. There is more than enough reports, from reliable media given, so whinge all you like, but you’ve got nothing.
You cannot believe anything which reflects badly on the USA and Rabbit has made his feelings about the USA very clear, and that the loathing and distrust has grown the last five years along with the rest of the world.
Rabbit repeats Natty is lying and avoiding the fact that all the issues she is still carrying on about are over and done wtha nd she has nothing. Rabbit refers to the threads as detailed above, for proof. Others have even been forced to change their opinions, by reading these threads and Natty is a lone Governement SHILL. She and the whole story will be posted in the Shill and Troll Museum soon, for everyone’s enlightenment.
Rabbit wonders why Natty was away so long again? Did Natty think that the Rabbit was banned maybe? Just waiting for the dust to settle before coming back and trying again were we?
Well some re-postings are in order uit seems. Just to annoy the bitch.
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 4, 2005 at 5:08 PM
Oh and lying Shill, the Rabbit knows his computer was being hacked. there is a thing called a technician, which Rabbit once was, but is rusty now days, who can indeed find such things out. We know the computer was being hacked.
Rabbit knows you are a SHILL, so does everyone else, by the way.
Roger Helbig is a Pentagon Shill, and that is history, and you were his partner, your blatant shilling initially while pretending to be an openminded passer by, waws completely blown open, and the history stanmds there to prove it. Rabbit does not care whether you are a Helbig or not, but finds the co-incidence just a bit too interesting to ignore, and it is also history that you ran away for ages when this was first thrown into the ring. You scarpered, and considering the suggetsion only dam,aged your standing and still does, it is fascinating you have never made a serious effort to disprove it, something which is dead easy, you and Roger have expected others to identify themselves ,and because we have nothing to hide, others including Rabbnit have done so. You are douing ssomething which all shills do, remaining as anonymous as possible. Rabbit does not care if you are Natalie Helbig, but he will continue repeating it as long as you do nothing to prove otherwise, because it just might annoy you.
You have come across as an insane, vicous little mind. A mind so determined to face nothging which goes against the program that you are prtepared to act like an imbecile to do it.
The simplest way for Rabbit to finish you off is to simply say, you are going around the Blackberry bush again despite after about 900 postings, which have covered a mass of details, including those few you are now pretending are new.
Ther following posts are some of those which have been presented and which you have ignored. This should show why Rabbit is justified ignoring the SHILL.
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 4, 2005 at 5:18 PM
Oh and Natty, Rabbit was wondering when you would post the BYU statement about Jones work.
Rabbit read it about a week ago. So what? they don’t do anything except cover their own ass. Everyone knows they got leant on big time. Their government funding and a number of private individuals was under threat. How stupid do you think we are?
You of course know that perfectly well, you are as said not deluded, you are a genuine professional liar. The university is his employer, cow, and not his colleagues. The colleagues whoi sat through the presentation, agreed, 100%.
Furthermore, Idiot Child Mind, the Professor has an excellent reputation, and his report is absolutely infallible, read it and weep, you are not going to be able to beat that report. This is why you are as usual attacking the man. You are so ignorant HNtty, that you have never yet read his report.
Rabbit has. Rabbit has also rerad the NIST report. Rabbit has in fact read all the reports available and being a Rabbit with much science background, enbgineering and explosives, it made very easy comprhension. Very simply the official reports are not scientific, they are crap, ignoring evidence because it would have screwed up the theory. The Jones report ignores nothing. Now since anybody can guess you have certainly not read much if any of the actual reports, it just shows your mental poverty when you dare to say Rabbit is easily convinced of anything. if you read even half of what there is, you would know that there is nothing substantial upon which to hold the official lie together. Just point to a single fact which supports your theory in place of ours. A fact Shill, just one real fact which supports fire over explosives.
You will have to read all those reports to realise there is not one. You are the one easily convinced it seems. If the government says it is, then you just swallow it down like an obedient idiot.
You are full of smoke and mirror tricks, character assassination, and blunt denial. You were only needed as a foil as said, you cannot be convinced of anything, except how lonely is your world of Faithful blind believers.
Oh and by the way Natty, as far as lying about DU, there is a high and increasing rate of birth deformities among veterans babies. The thing is it is only just begginning, since obviously not many of them have had time to have babies yet. As for the poisoning of them, you are in league with thoise scum who are poisoning them and the proof is as simple as this. You are resisting the testing of the returned troops, the pentagon will not have it, and once again that is a virtual admission of guilt. Those who have been tested have shown a high incidence of contamination, it is all on the thread.
Anyone who is ever reading this, know again that The ltying Shill is trying to re-write history, the Radiactive Wounds of War Thread, is a complete history of teh discussion which was overwhelmingly against the lies Natty espouses, and it furthermore will show Natty to be a government Shill. No mere Troll or Moron this one, she is the real deal, a Shill. Rabbit suspects she is employed by Rendon group or an underling.
nsatty, the Pentagon putting pressure on ITT in the sneaky way it did, has backfired. The Article and the thread is now being dealt with again on the basis of the Pentagon reaction to the article and the thread. Since the deatils they objected to have been repeated in many other media, it seems prety clear that it was the thread which was bothering them..
How we do know who you are. Stupid, stupid pentagon Shills. No wonder you idiots are so piss poor at fighting wars.
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 4, 2005 at 5:38 PM
Rabbit owns a Kayak factory, rotational moulding actually.
He has many interests, including fishing, hunting and blowing things up, in colour, preferably.
Annoying Shills and hunting Trolls off sites is also a hobby of Rabbits.
The Radioactive wounds of War article is being dealt with on other media, since the controversy, by the way, was my point. Rabbit has seen it linked to by no fewer than five other outlets now, including Counterpunch.
Rabbit promised you and the lying Colonel, that you were digging your own graves, or an elephant trap for the Pentagon. You have. By your strident panic to cover it up, and your absolute determination to hide the truth no matter how you did it, you have competely given the gane away.
If the bastards want this issue kept quiet this much, then obviously it is Rabbit’s duty to ensure it gets as wide a hearing as possible. That is my intention only Vampire Carcass. To bring the issue into the light, and it is getting there realy fast. We had a documentary about Depleted Uranium and US usage of it especially. This was on the national broadcaster, on Television recently. Many other countries who stil have some freedomand democracy left are seeing such things these days, you don’t get unfiltered news there so wouldn’t know. read about it on the Web, girly, it is all reported faithfully there.
the issue is getting into the light, just like 911, and you still haven’t mentioned VonBulow I don’t think. Natty you just don’t get it. You cannot keep on attacking dozens and dozens of serious and honest people who say something you claim is untrue. You can do it, buyt afetr a while it becoem obvious that is a;ll you are doing, and it is equally obvious you are doing it to avoid what they are saying. This is very silly. The only thing all these people need to establish and they have easily done so, is that there is plenty of intelligent and qualified people who agree with us.
If your handful of recycled experts are being knocked out of the game, due to their lack of consideration of all the facts, as has been shown, this is not a personal attack. It is a valid query on their methods. Besides none of them have said it definately must have fallen due to fire alone, they were as I’ve said only trying to establish it could have happened that way.
In the end Natty, it is clear that there are amny who hold our view, and we are a rapidly growing group. Since all you have is faith and delusions, you can only lose over time.
Time is on our side, not yours.
The Rabbit has found you to be a loathsome, slimy debating partner. Useful only in as much as you give away your own game so easily. You are quite manipulable, possibly because yo8u are so blinded by your own hubris about your effectiveness. Simply put, you are not effective. If indeed you are being paid to Shill, then somebody is wasting their money. A Shill who is known is not much use except to us.
We have learnt so much about your masters from your efforts. Rabbit promised you and the Lying Colonel several months ago that he would do everything in his power to make the thread and article you were found on, into the biggest stick for wacking your masters he could. It could not have been done without your help, and if you had just pulled in your nasty heads back then, thendamage would have been minimal. Luckily the biggest animals are always the easiest to trap.
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 4, 2005 at 6:01 PM
Looks like Captain Doug Rokke is still kicking you in the teeth?
Just a personal Blog entry, opinion.
The Children, learn to live with it.
Natty cares about Children, she thinks they make great shields, she tried using some Iraqi kids as a shield once, dirty shill.
Arab American Priest
This article is promising, this is what is coming to get you, LIARS.
<blockquote>An Arab-American Priest, Depleted Uranium, and Iraq
By Robert Hirschfield
Father Simon Harak (Photo R. Hirschfield).
TRAVELING around southern Iraq in the late 1990s to investigate the effects of U.N. economic sanctions on ordinary Iraqis, Jesuit Father Simon Harak stopped at a hospital in Basra. Meeting with him and his colleagues from the anti-sanction group Voices in the Wilderness, Dr. Jenan Hassan briefed them about the medical horrors she and other doctors were confronting as a result of the use of depleted uranium (DU) weapons by the U.S. Army in southern Iraq during the 1991 Gulf war. There was a fivefold increase in cancer, especially leukemia, she said, and a five- to eightfold increase in children born with genetic defects.
Dr. Hassan showed the Voices group some of the newborns.
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 4, 2005 at 6:09 PM
<blockquote>Harak recalled being told by doctors in Basra that the deformed children they were delivering reminded them of the pictures they had seen of Chernobyl babies. When a baby is born in Basra, the doctors said, the first question the mother asks her obstetrician is:
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 4, 2005 at 6:10 PM
And no video of any of them. How convenient. How ridiculous. Not even Judge Jones mentions this nonsense.
Now what has Professor Jones done to upset Natty so?
He has written a report wherein he specifically staes he is avoiding all other issues except those wherein his expertise lay.
If Natty had read anything before she attacked it, she would not have asked such a redundant question. Ad Hominen attacks is all Natty knows. His report is very scientific Natty, if you ever read it you will see how a real scientist reports, not those fakes your lot used to dredge up. You don’t seem to have any recent experts Natty? Is that because the facts which were being ignored by the first few, are too well known now? Of course it is Natty. Let’s face it, you don’t have anything except a shakey fairy story and a few half assed reports which nobody except drongos who have not read them could take seriously. Why don’t you read the NIST report Natty? Then read the Griffin book, then read Jones’ report, then Natty, you might realise what you are up against. Clown Girl.
<blockquote>This seems to be a recurring theme among you Islamic terrorism deniers. The Jews are responsible. Earlier, on the God squad thread, you proudly posted a link to a holocaust-denier/sympathizer site. It was: http://www.erichufschmid.net/Conspiracies12.htm. Are you a denier Rabbit? Do you harbor ill-feeling toward Israel and the Jews? Is this one of the things that
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 4, 2005 at 7:08 PM
So Lying Shill, are you a complete mercenary? A traitor to the USA as well as to Humankind?
Attack on the USS Liberty by Israel.
A bit of History of Jewish atrocities.
One does not have to be anti Jewish to decry their atrocities, and more than one has to be anti Christian to decry their Atrocities. Of course we know that all those who are decrying Muslim atrocities are anti muslim, that can be seen in the illegal wars of aggression your nation is engaged in. The main feeling among American supporters of the aggression is Anti Muslim, and scum like you are feeding that feeling.
This is the Red Cross report from after the war and as can be seen it does raise some questions about the holocaust. It must be really confusing being so ill informed as you are Natty. As an American you are automatically handicapped in a debate with an Aussie or an Englishman, we have much more comprehensive and balanced education systems, its historical. The level of literacy and education in the USA is universally accepted as poor. even the educated Americans knows this.
An aside. Live Hijackers, re-post, end of story, this is ireffutable girly, and no video needed, as said you could deny that too, but you are not going to beat the sourcing of that post.
One ref for the suspicious Israelis
Any clues what they were up to Shill?
American Free Press via the faithful Rense.
Now Natty, Rabbit is as tolerant of Jews as of any Religion, though he tends to favour the gentle Budhists over most. But this does not mean that Rabbit will ignore something bad, just because a Jew did it. Rabbit has hopes for an America which can once again take its place among civilised and democratic nations, and even now Rabbiot has many American friends who he loves and who are more determined to make America geat again than you are to destroy it, with lies and atrocities and lies about atrocities.
Natty dear, the NAZI’s didn’t call themselves evil doers either, it was the rest of the world who defined this fact.
By the way, even if the bulk of the Holocaust turned out to be false, it doesn’t make the Nazi’s better, it just makes more sense when looking at the vicious little terrorist nation Israel has become. Many of us have wondered how a people can suffer such atrocities and yet so quickly embrace terrorism the way Israel’s founders did, and behave with such brutal abandon against the Pallestinians.
The fact that they have always been practising manipulation and terrorism actually makes a lot more sense, and besides it has a lot of historical precedent.
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 4, 2005 at 7:43 PM
Natty in more ad hominem attacks dares to question Rabbit’s expertise. You know something girly your ignorance gets greater by the day.
You poverty of mind is so sad. Rabbit does not need to qualify himself to you, he has demonstrated complete expertise and exoplained things from the viewpoint of an expert, and you have yet dared to try and argue when you admittedly know nothing. Actually Rabbit has dropped three buildings and they were all steel, though they were only large steel structures, one was a thirty meter silo and Rabbit removed the roof like a frisbee as indicated. He did this, purely for fun, and because there was room for it. He has no pictures as it happens, but so what? As for a few Firecrackers and models, you dim broad. Rabbit was one of only two full time employed Professional Fireworks Operators in Western Australia. In 2000, he fired an finale over Exmouth, which included 200 three and four inch shells, and six eight-inch, and two twelve inch shells. At that time the biggest shells fired in WA.
A twelve inch shell takes about eleven seconds to reach apogee at about one mile high and it breaks out to a diameter of about half a mile. That is not exactly a firecracker girly. The 3 inch salutes which Rabbit used are the same as military and police Stun greandes. You really should be careful about what you ridicule, for a dummy you sure do like to jump into the unknown with both feet first and your head up your butt.
Furthermore, Natty, Rabbit is a pyrotechnic chemist. That means he can make explosives and fireworks and has indeed done so. The amount of insight this gives is far beyond anything you could begin to imagine. With a background in Physics and Chemistry, and a lifetime in fabrication, expecially metal, I would pity you trying to argue such basics as you are, if it were not for the fact that I know you are just doing your job. Lying and covering up.
It has been said before Natty, the truth doesn’t need people to coverup for it. That is all you are doing and all the government is doing.
What are you hiding? Why don’t you release the evidence?
Because you are lying and it will prove it.
Numerous experts in the field of engineering as well as demolitions experts have been referenced in the hundreds of posts which you ran from on the God Squad thread, so lie away girl, everyone can read. The reason Natty arbitrarily jumped into this thread with this off topic issue is because she had to stay with the issue, but needed to make a break between her and the complete destruction her case suffered at the God Suad thread.
Pretty transparent isn’t she?
Natty is a Liar. Natty is a Shill.
Natty poisons children.
and lies upon the hill.
Torture is her next job. Pretend it isn’t true.
When the light gets way too bright.
She’ll bite like a nasty shrew.
NAT the BAT.
In the Hat.
Your a Rat.
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 4, 2005 at 8:09 PM
<blockquote>Right. I
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 4, 2005 at 9:19 PM
Something more to annoy the LIARS.
<blockquote> 911 for Very Busy People
You’re really busy, right? You’ve heard something about 9-11 and conspiracy theories, but you don’t have time for it. Right?
Well, here is a very brief executive summary for you of some of the facts about 9-11 which you likely have never heard (and which will bring you up to speed on the issue in around 2 minutes):
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 4, 2005 at 9:21 PM
the rest…......
<blockquote>
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 4, 2005 at 9:25 PM
The full story and all the references to prove that NINE of the nineteen are alive and well.
The actual references are solid, discussion which ignores each individual report, and it’s veracity is anything but the usual smoke and mirrors. If Rabbit has started by offering a video of any of them, Natty would not have accepted that as proving anything, and on it’s own Rabbit would agree.
The proof is within that reference, it isn’t worth Rabbit re-posting something with dozens of links. Nor is it going to help Natty’s case to come along and say it isn’t the right colour, or she won’t accept anything less than a letter from God saying its true, or she wan’t a video, or a Shrubbery to prove it. It is proven, so up yours, find another angle.
The truth is simple, there really isn’t any proof that those nineteen men did anything, and as usual somebody involved in the deal stuffed up. Lousy bunch of crooks, that’s all they are.
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 4, 2005 at 9:38 PM
This is a new one for Rabbit
It sure does get the message out loud and clear.
It covers the Hijackers too of course but so much more.
Another site against your lies, how can you cope Natty? Do you have enough hate to go around? Or does each newborn resister to the LIES come with it’s own new injection of Hate for your scummy soul?
OK Rabbit is bored now, he will be back to see how much wriggling you do on the barbs of truth, in a day or so.
Or then again he might just find some juicy piece of info to wack you with.
Rabbit is also busier than he can believe in his factory, he is making lots of money and selling little boats faster than he can make them right now. Doesn’t that just warm Natty’s heart to know that?
Rabbit is also about to eat a big chocolate muffin!
.............................................
................................Do Shills have a work Christmas party?
........
..........................................^^...............................................
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 4, 2005 at 9:45 PM
<blockquote> Here are some issues about the September 11th attacks to consider:
World Trade Center Towers
*Jet fuel does not burn hot enough to melt steel.
Footage shows explosives were placed in both towers before the attack to cause the towers to disintegrate into dust.
*The towers fell exactly into their footprint, taking the path of most resistance in about 10 seconds, the same amount of time it takes an object to fall that distance in a vacuum.
*The towers tossed massive steel beams 200 feet in each direction, too far to be explained by a gravity collapse.
Survivors and firefighters report explosions at the BASE of the WTC towers at the same time as the planes hit it - how did Osama do this?
*Pools of molten metal were found 7 stories under the towers 6 weeks after the attack. It takes 5000+ degrees Fahrenheit to turn steel into liquid. Where did this energy come from?
*The top of the south tower began to collapse sideways, then righted itself, falling into it’s footprint. This is impossible with only gravity working to collapse the tower.
Building 7
*It was a 47 story, steel-framed building that disintegrated later in the day, also from explosives. It was not hit by any planes. How did Osama pull this one off?
*The 23rd floor was the Mayor
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 4, 2005 at 11:34 PM
Not all of the above FACTS have to lead to something for them to support a much different theory than yours. But, They ALL have to be wrong for your theory to be true.
Like the probability and all the other logic and science, you’ll just have to leave that to the experts, and the sensible people, to conclude, since logic is not Natty’s strong suit.
You’d make a great magicians assistant though.
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 4, 2005 at 11:34 PM
Funny Natty should use Professor Astenah for her case, we have already presented his results, and dealt with the limitations of his work, in support of our case.
Please describe the impediments that you encountered during the investigation of the collapse of the WTC buildings, such as the loss of material from the WTC site and any effects of such impediments on your work.
I wish I had more time to inspect steel structure and save more pieces before the steel was recycled. However, given the fact that other teams such as NIST, SEAONY and FEMA-BPAT have also done inspection and have collected the perishable data, it seems to me that collectively we may have been able to collect sufficient data. The main impediments to my work were and still are:
—-Not having a copy of the engineering drawings and design and construction documents.
—-Not having copies of the photographs and videotapes that various agencies might have taken during and immediately after the collapse.
Some info
It is funny to remember how Natty attacked the Professor Astenah when we first raised his data. She attacked his Arab name as meaning he was biased, and attacked Berkeley as being anti-bush. DUH?.
Perhaps we should look at Natty’s response to Whit and Rabbit raising Astenah’s work following trhe quote she so stupidly provides from Whit. Now she thinks he might help her case, she is singing a different tune. DUH?.
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 5, 2005 at 12:36 AM
Yawn…......^^..........
THE WTC WAS DESIGNED TO SURVIVE
THE IMPACT OF A BOEING 767
Fact. The twin towers were designed to withstand a collision with a Boeing 707.
The maximum takeoff weight for a Boeing 707-320B is 336,000 pounds.
The maximum takeoff weight for a Boeing 767-200ER is 395,000 pounds.
The wingspan of a Boeing 707 is 146 feet.
The wingspan of a Boeing 767 is 156 feet.
The length of a Boeing 707 is 153 feet.
The length of a Boeing 767 is 159 feet.
The Boeing 707 could carry 23,000 gallons of fuel.
The Boeing 767 could carry 23,980 gallons of fuel.
The cruise speed of a Boeing 707 is 607 mph = 890 ft/s,
The cruise speed of a Boeing 767 is 530 mph = 777 ft/s.
So, the Boeing 707 and 767 are very similar aircraft, with the main differences being that the 767 is slightly heavier and the 707 is faster.
In designing the towers to withstand the impact of a Boeing 707, the designers would have assumed that the aircraft was operated normally. So they would have assumed that the aircraft was traveling at its cruise speed and not at the break neck speed of some kamikaze. With this in mind, we can calculate the energy that the plane would impart to the towers in any accidental collision.
The kinetic energy released by the impact of a Boeing 707 at cruise speed is
= 0.5 x 336,000 x (890)^2/32.174
= 4.136 billion ft lbs force (5,607,720 Kilojoules).
The kinetic energy released by the impact of a Boeing 767 at cruise speed is
= 0.5 x 395,000 x (777)^2/32.174
= 3.706 billion ft lbs force (5,024,650 Kilojoules).
From this, we see that under normal flying conditions, a Boeing 707 would smash into the WTC with about 10 percent more energy than would the slightly heavier Boeing 767. That is, under normal flying conditions, a Boeing 707 would do more damage than a Boeing 767.
In conclusion we can say that if the towers were designed to survive the impact of a Boeing 707, then they were necessarily designed to survive the impact of a Boeing 767.
So what can be said about the actual impacts?
The speed of impact of AA Flight 11 was 470 mph = 689 ft/s.
The speed of impact of UA Flight 175 was 590 mph = 865 ft/s.
The kinetic energy released by the impact of AA Flight 11 was
= 0.5 x 395,000 x (689)^2/32.174
= 2.914 billion ft lbs force (3,950,950 Kilojoules).
This is well within limits that the towers were built to survive. So why did the North tower fall?
The kinetic energy released by the impact of UA Flight 175 was
= 0.5 x 395,000 x (865)^2/32.174
= 4.593 billion ft lbs force (6,227,270 Kilojoules).
This is within 10 percent of the energy released by the impact of a Boeing 707 at cruise speed. So, it is also a surprise that the 767 impact caused the South tower to fall.
Overall, it comes as a great surprise that the impact of a Boeing 767 bought down either tower. Indeed, many experts are on record as saying that the towers would survive the impact of the larger and faster Boeing 747. In this regard, see professor Astaneh-Asl’s simulation of the crash of the much, much larger and heavier Boeing 747 with the World Trade Center. Professor Astaneh-Asl teaches at the University of California, Berkeley.
Although the jet fuel fires have been ruled out as the cause of the collapses, it should still be pointed out that the fuel capacities of the Boeing 707 and the Boeing 767 are essentially the same. And in any case, it has been estimated that both UA Flight 175 and AA Flight 11 were carrying about 10,000 gallons of fuel when they impacted. This is well below the 23,000 gallon capacity of a Boeing 707 or 767. Thus the amount of fuel that exploded and burnt on September 11 was envisaged by those who designed the towers. Consequently, the towers were designed to survive such fires. It should also be mentioned that other high-rise buildings have suffered significantly more serious fires than those of the twin towers on September 11, and did not collapse.
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 5, 2005 at 12:39 AM
Oh Rabbit almost forgot.
Don’t try talking about explosives Natty, you are way out of your league there. Rabbit said that Thermite is not a True Explosive which is true, but technically speaking nor is gunpowder, it is a distinction made at the level of pyrotechnic chemistry with which Rabbit is familiar, it is however a distincion completely moot in the case of even a Physics professor, and certainly for a twit like your self, Thermite is an explosive. Jones mentions it and refers to it as an explosive. It is quite simple, just because it can be made to go bang, or even does go bang, does not mean it is an explosive. Explosions, as you think of it, can be made with steam, or even Grain Dust. Explosions as we think of it have to do with the speed of reaction, forget it girly it is way past your nedtime.
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 5, 2005 at 1:01 AM
It goes bang, especially when used in demolitions, because, yes you did guess it, it has to have a detonation, and that results in a bang, a very specific bang if you know what to listen for, but it was interesting to note how some witnesses described the explosions they heard, like a POP POP POP said one firefighter. yes, that sounds familiar, not so much a sharp high explosive bang which amongst concrete buildings as sound shields would have been distorted a bit, more af a slower POP, the detoantion is the start but the Thermite will give a slower report as it fires up, but it is designed to fire all at once, not just a slow fizzle like a sparkler.
try wrapping about Fifty sparklers together, all in a tight bundle, with a detonator in the middle, say a small cracker, and lots of wraps of alfoil around the lot, just a fuse sticking out.
You will be astonished at the volume of the sound and the amount of heat produced, as witnessed by the sparkler wires will be melted, even partially vaporised…..........Exactly the same as the steel from the WTC which was found to have been partially vaporised.
Jet fuel can’t do that girly. LP gas can’t do that even if you pump pure oxygen into the mix. Oxyacetylene cannot do that either, oh it can vaporise steel in small amounts and does, so does arc welding and Mig welding, but to vaporise steel from such large pieces, huge Heat Sinks requires a temperature which very few things reach in the normal course of human chemistry reactions. The list is currently limited to Thermite, unless you wish to consider Nuclear Explosion. There are maybe some gradews of PETN which rabbit has not had his paws on which would vaporise Steel, but actually that is highly unlikely. The power of PETN comes from its speed of reaction, and anything higher than Rabbit has used, about 700,000 meters per second, would certainly be too quick to vaporise anything except the cutting face. No, thermite is the only candidate girly and one day when the truth comes out once and for all, Rabbit suspects it will be shown to have been Thermite. Not a hard one to call, he might see if he can place a bet on it somewhere.
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 5, 2005 at 1:16 AM
Natty Natty, quite contratty:
here is the BBC report on your hijackers. I am back from vacation and my blood boils anytime I witness Hitler’s goons spreading their filth in my country.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1559151.stm
Posted by beowulf on Dec 5, 2005 at 7:49 PM
Hi Beowulf,
like a Norse Warrior of old,
returned from his wanderings, to find, Hitlers Goons, the nasty Vampire Hag, spreading lies and sliming peoples eyes.
She has had that link several times but says she wants a video. She is insatiable, we know full well that a video would also have been dismissed out of hand. See how she has crippled herself by introducing Professor Astenahs work now. Rabbit is about to post her response to OUR introduction of Astenah when it was relevant. Just to show the moral poverty and craven nature of the beast.
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 5, 2005 at 9:07 PM
Hi Beowulf, welcome back. Hi Rabbit and Natalie too.
Rabbit, you are the proverbial knight in shiny armor and I salute you.
Natalie, as much as it pains me to say it, you are the knight in armor that is not so shiny.
Posted by David in Canada on Dec 5, 2005 at 9:54 PM
David and Rabbit,
I salute you as ones who are a light in a dark world where illusion is king and lies are peddled as proverbial truths.
“In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”
1984
Posted by beowulf on Dec 6, 2005 at 12:03 AM
As much as it pains me to say it, I was quite premature and simply bigoted to initially doubt the professor from Berkley based solely on the “blueness” of his geographical location. At the time, I was unclear about his attitude because for some reason I hadn’t come across his more recent report:
safe html version
I wrongly suspected that he might have been affected by the attitudes of fellow faculty members in other areas of academia traditionally much more susceptible to emotion, imagination and propaganda. It never even dawned on me that he might be an example of somebody that immigrated to America in order to pursue his area of expertise minus any interference from “fundamentalists”. In other words, freely.
Not until reading the below referenced article did I realize that Leslie “the mechanic” Robertson was also a product of that famous oasis of head-in-the-sand liberalism known as U.C. Berkley, CA. Two examples, it would seem, of the difference between practically-minded realists, and theoretically-minded “visionaries”, the latter of which seem to include in their ranks certain hot and cold fusion physicists.
<i>Despite the horror of the site, he said he wanted to be there to salvage something informative from the tragedy. As one of few, if any, Iranians or Muslims within the restricted area around the site, he recalled his own arrival to the United States in 1978 to embark on graduate studies. His first stop, accompanied by his wife and one-year old son, was New York City. His first picture: the unbelievably tall towers of the World Trade Center and the Statue of Liberty…......
.......By chance, while visiting the offices of The New York Times last week to chat with one of its science writers, he heard about plans to immediately recycle steel from the site, and launched a lobbying effort to convince the city to wait until the debris had been inspected by structural engineers. Thanks largely to a Saturday article by Kenneth Chang and James Glanz, the city has agreed to make the steel available to Astaneh and other engineers heading up an investigation for the American Society of Civil Engineers….....
........The World Trade Center was far better constructed than the Murrah building, down to a pedigree for each steel beam and a welder
Posted by Natalie on Dec 6, 2005 at 2:14 AM
Here it is, Natty’s response to The mention of Professor Astenah, mentioned in context of the dissatisfaction with missing evidence, and the simulations, unsatisfactory as all admitted they were in some respects. They showed what would happen when the plene flew into the building and they didn’t show a collapse.
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 6, 2005 at 3:03 AM
<i>As much as it pains me to say it, I was quite premature and simply bigoted to initially doubt the professor from Berkley based solely on the
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 6, 2005 at 3:32 AM
Oh Blast….... the Natty quote got lost.
here it is. The way she answered our mention of Astenah, the same sort of response she gives to all of dozens of other engineers, experts in various fields of consequence, and a few high ranbking government ministers from various countries including the USA.
<blockquote>................although I wouldn
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 6, 2005 at 3:40 AM
<i>Now Rabbit, surely you don
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 6, 2005 at 3:56 AM
A small detail, not everybody runs around with a camera sweety, that’s an even more prosaic explanation. But Rabbit has some wicked Video footage of some of his fireworks displays which might make his bloggy thing one day.
You are being stuffed and mounted for display in his Museum of Shills, Trolls and Special Morons.
This was promised about two posts before the one you quoted from Whit about Astenah on page five here. Rabbit was reminded of it whilst looking at your dissembling and twisting back then. Two months later the Museum is up, but the displays are bare. You mustn’t take up all Rabbit’s time he has work to do on your display.
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 6, 2005 at 4:02 AM
You call others biased when you are so biased we can predict your every BELIEF just by considering the official government line.
Let’s go Natty, tell us you vary from the official line on one issue, one single issue of consequence. You cannot, because you are a Shill. Any natural human being has various views, we proved that with the Trolls, and at leats a few of them always run contrary to the official line. Not Natty, she is a Shill.
Torture Natty? You deny it happens, at the same time as you justify it anyway. We know, because that is what the government is doing.
Katrina? Everybody else in America almost was down on the government, but Natty? Not on your life. It was all those nasty poor people and all the liars and trouble makers, like us and the media making up bad stories about the government who were doing a great job. Yeh Natty we know. What about South America ? We know, Evil Chavez, Evil Castro. They are the problem….....
What about Global Warming? We know Natty. We know the abberant insane policy.
What about Creationism? That’s only a diversion anyway. Prove to us you are not a Shill by telling us you think it is madness to have Intelligent design taught in its proposed form, in US schools. That will convince us, sure it will.
No seriously you’d have to go a bit further than that, but it would interest Rabbit to know if you think a god made you, an ET made you, or whether you just crawled out of a swamp.
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 6, 2005 at 4:17 AM
“There has been some concern expressed by others that the work of the team has been hampered because debris was removed from the site and has subsequently been processed for recycling. This is not the case. The team has had full access to the scrap yards and to the site and has been able to obtain numerous samples. At this point there is no indication that having access to each piece of steel from the World Trade Center would make a significant difference to understanding the performance of the structures.”
I believe that lying to Congress is quite a serious
crime.
—The government removed ALL the structural evdence and had it destroyed overseas. .....Rabbit
Posted by Natalie on Dec 7, 2005 at 1:18 AM
<i>“Natty is the only one specifying video, but Rabbit has said he can
Posted by Natalie on Dec 7, 2005 at 1:40 AM
Natty is asking for video which nobody ever promised, nobody needs and which as said would prove nothing. Those guys are alive, as Beowulf has said, fool, everyone knows that, you are living in a fools world.
It has been repeatedly pointed out, and is at least of consequence, that the government is “Hiding” the video evidence which would exonerate it, if they were not lying, which they are. We don’t need the video to know they are lying, and you are not changing anybody’s mind. In fact your blatant denial and shilling is helping to show many people the poverty of the the official line. Keep on blabbing about a video, pretending you have some sort of point because nobody is giving you a video for something which is pointless. The point was proving those men were alive, and that is taken care of. You are just pretending like always.
Now more shall be posted to annoy you, many more facts and of course more people are learning the truth faster and faster. Keep sticking your fingers in the leaks little girl but you can’t stop the flood of truth. SHILL.
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 7, 2005 at 4:55 AM
Are you blind by the way, can you not see you have had masses of proof that the seven and possibly noine are alive? Of course you can, It has been posted repeatedly and even oethers ahve done, you are just in a little bit of a frenzy because you think that for once you have asked for something and Rabbit has not produced it. You asked for Engineers when it was not necessary for the facts being presented, yet Rabbit obliged the stupid girl and posted several reprts by engineers which support the theory that explosives were need to bring down the buildings. These were all detailed reports and very straightforward, not credible refutation has been made of any of them, and yet you ignored all the details, and simply attacked the character of these men. Among the expert opinion you have ignored has been the ex German Defense Minister, A Canadian Minister, various other professionals and relevant persons, all of whom say eseentially the same things in this regard, there is no mystery.
You have asked for so many different things, stupidly and transparantly ignoring the important issues the whole time, Dissembling it’s called, and we have seen a lot of Ad-Hominem attacks, the tool of the fool. It has been obvious, and despite your repeated attempts to come up with something we could not provide we have provided an enormous body of evidence, much of it redundant as the point Rabbit set out to make in each case had been made for any rational being several times overby then as a rule. never mind what it was, you always find a way to wriggle out, Ignoring it completely…....Pathetic.
Attack the source .........Craven (Your kneejerk attack on Astenah, blew it didn’t you, clown.)
Attack the witness…............Hopeless.
Natty you are dirt as far as debating partners go, the lowest, Rabbit has met folks with most of the views you espouse, but never anyone who went to such lengths to avoid admitting she has nothing.
How many people have you convinced of anything? Dingbat.
Rabbit knows you would have ignored any video of the hijackers frankly it is not a as good as the credited Newspaper reports from the various sources given, they included photos by the way. Of course others are seeing it. Cannot teach a Shill anything we know that.
Where is all the many people who are believing your lies? Why is nobody ever supporting you Natty?
Why are you always on your own?
No other issue on this site ever see’s the official bullshit unsupported by at least a couple of determined morons. Not one can take the utterly devastating amount of Proof, yes we can legitimately claim to have enough proof of the Government’s involvement, be it only circumstantial, it is such particular circumstances as has been detailed before, that it leaves no doubt. No wonder they have Shills like you pushing the lies, trying to prop up a failing tower of cards.
Did we see the plane fly into the building in Iran? When can we expect the building to fall down Natty? Shouldn’t it fall into it’s own footprint? There was a big fire too. What’s wrong Natty? The iranians must build better buildings maybe? Of course we know what was missing. Preplaced explosives.
What went wrong?
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 7, 2005 at 5:19 AM
Taking a Closer Look: Hard Science and the Collapse of the World Trade Center
by Dave Heller, article originally appeared in Garlic and Grass
While it may be difficult to awaken everyone from their state-induced fog of fear, we are at a critical point in history which requires us to try. We truly must take an objective look at the facts and evidence surrounding 9-11.
While none of the many 9-11 researchers knows exactly what happened on that fateful day in September almost 3 years ago, any sensible person can easily spot dozens of inconsistencies in the official story that is being forced upon us.
And these inconsistencies are huge. They range from the apparent stand-down of our immense military arsenal (for over an hour and a half) to the small hole and lack of debris at the Pentagon. There was Bush’s bizarre, uninterrupted photo op in a Florida elementary school, and then there is the matter of the remains of Flight 93 being scattered over eight miles of Pennsylvania farmland, a fact which suggests the plane may have been shot down. The official story seems wrong on all of these points.
But the focus of this article is on just one point: the odd collapse of the three buildings in the World Trade Center complex.
How I First Began to Question: WTC7
The World Trade Center (WTC) contained seven buildings. The Twin Towers were called buildings One (WTC1) and Two (WTC2). They collapsed in truly astounding fashion, but the event that caused me first to question the official story about the events of 9-11 was viewing videos of the collapse of World Trade Center Building 7 (WTC7).
If you’ve forgotten, WTC7 was a 47-story building that was not hit by an airplane or by any significant debris from either WTC1 or WTC2. Buildings 3, 4, 5, and 6 were struck by massive amounts of debris from the collapsing Twin Towers, yet none collapsed, despite their thin-gauge steel supports.
Viewing the Collapse of WTC7
The 9-11 commemorative videos produced by PBS and CNN are best. Both clearly show WTC7’s implosion.
Lower resolution Internet movies are also available.
WTC7, which was situated on the next block over, was the farthest of the buildings from WTC1 and WTC2. WTC7 happened to contain the New York City Office of Emergency Management (OEM), a facility that was, according to testimony to the 9-11 Commission, one of the most sophisticated Emergency Command Centers on the planet. But shortly after 5:20 pm on Sept. 11, as the horrific day was coming to a close, WTC7 mysteriously imploded and fell to the ground in an astounding 6.5 seconds.
6.5 seconds. This is a mere 0.5 seconds more than freefall in a vacuum. To restate this, a rock dropped from the 47th floor would have taken at least 6 seconds to hit the ground. WTC7, in its entirety, fell to the earth in 6.5 seconds. Now, recall, we’re supposed to believe that each floor of the building “pancaked” on the one below. Each of the 47 floors supposedly pancaked and collapsed, individually. Yet WTC7 reached the ground in 0.5 seconds longer than freefall. Is this really possible?
Dave Heller
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 7, 2005 at 5:23 AM
The world’s media has reported that many of the so-called hijackers “fingered” by the FBI are still alive. For example the BBC (British Broadcasting Cooperation) carried this report:
Hijack “suspects” alive and well.
The following article is a remake of http://www.mujahideen.fsnet.co.uk/wtc/wtc-hijackers.htm which lists many of the media articles dealing with the hijackers who were not hijackers.
————————————————————————————————————————
Abdul Aziz Al-Omari (Flight 11) (Trained Pilot)
The identities of two men with the same name have been cobbled together to create an FBI “terrorist”. Both are Alive!
The first has the same name, the same birth date as one of the FBI “terrorists” but has no idea how to fly.
The second has the name Abdul Rahman Al-Omari and a different birth date, but is the person pictured by the FBI and is a pilot for Saudi Arabian Airlines.
Here are some quotes from the world’s media concerning them.
Omari Number 1
“A Saudi man has reported to authorities that he is the real Abdul Aziz Al-Omari, and claims his passport was stolen in 1995 while he studied electrical engineering at the University of Denver. Al-Omari says he informed police of the theft.” - ABCNews
“I couldn’t believe it when the FBI put me on their list. They gave my name and my date of birth, but I am not a suicide bomber. I am here. I am alive. I have no idea how to fly a plane. I had nothing to do with this.” - Telegraph 23rd September 2001
“The name (listed by the FBI) is my name and the birth date is the same as mine, but I am not the one who bombed the World Trade Center in New York,” Abdul Aziz Al-Omari told the London-based Asharq Al-Awsat newspaper.
“Al-Omari has since been found in Saudi Arabia and is apparently cleared in the case” - New York Times
“Saudi Embassy officials in Washington have challenged his identity. They say a Saudi electrical engineer named Abdul Aziz Al-Omari had his passport and other papers stolen in 1996 in Denver when he was a student and reported the theft to police there at the time.” - BBC
“Abdel Aziz Al-Omari and Sa�d Hussein Gharamallah Al-Ghamdi, are well in life, the first in Saudi Arabia and the second in Tunisia for nine months.” - Wal Fadjri 21st September 2001 (translate)
Omari Number 2
Mr. Al-Omari, a pilot with Saudi Airlines, walked into the US embassy in Jeddah to demand why he was being reported as a dead hijacker in the American media.
“Abdul Aziz Al-Omari is a pilot for Saudi Arabian Airlines” - BBC 23rd September 2001
“A pilot with Saudi Airlines, was astonished to find himself accused of hijacking � as well as being dead � and has visited the US consulate in Jeddah to demand an explanation.” - Independent 17th September 2001
This Al-Omari lives with his wife and four children in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia.
————————————————————————————————————————
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 7, 2005 at 5:26 AM
I think Natty’s need for a video on top of this, is just sour grapes. Why do you spend so much time arguing things which don’t actually make a scrap of difference to the main contention that the government was behind it? This we have certainly left no doubt about of course but there is so much more coming in at the moment that Rabbit is happy to keep adding more fuel to the fire under your cause , Vampire.
<blockquote>Saeed Al-Ghamdi (Flight 93) (Trained Pilot)
“Saeed Al-Ghamdi is one of three hijackers that US officials have said are linked to Osama bin Laden’s al-Qaida network.” - BBC
No BBC! Mr. Al-Ghamdi is still alive and well and at his job for Tunis Air.
“I was completely shocked. For the past 10 months I have been based in Tunis with 22 other pilots learning to fly an Airbus 320. The FBI provided no evidence of my presumed involvement in the attacks.” - Telegraph 23rd September 2001
“Asharq Al Awsat newspaper, a London-based Arabic daily, says it has interviewed Saeed Al-Ghamdi.” - BBC 23rd September 2001
“Abdel Aziz Al-Omari and Sa�d Hussein Gharamallah Al-Ghamdi, are well in life, the first in Saudi Arabia and the second in Tunisia for nine months.” - Wal Fadjri 21st September 2001 (translate)
“..... not dead and had nothing to do with the heinous terror attacks in New York and Washington.” - Saudi embassy
————————————————————————————————————————
Waleed Al-Shehri (Flight 11) (Trained Pilot)
“A sixth person on the FBI’s list, Saudi national Waleed Al-Shehri, is living in Casablanca, according to an official with the Royal Air Moroc, the Moroccan commercial airline. According to the unnamed official, Al-Shehri lived in Dayton Beach, Fla., where he took flight training at Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University. Now he works for a Moroccan airline.” On Sept. 22, Associated Press reported that Alshehri had spoken to the U.S. embassy in Morocco.
“His photograph was released by the FBI, and has been shown in newspapers and on television around the world. That same Mr Al-Shehri has turned up in Morocco, proving clearly that he was not a member of the suicide attack.” - Daily Trust 24th September 2001.
“He was reported to have been in Hollywood, Florida, for a month earlier this year but his father, Ahmed, said that Waleed was alive and well and living in Morocco.” - Telegraph
“Another of the men named by the FBI as a hijacker in the suicide attacks on Washington and New York has turned up alive and well.” - BBC 23rd September 2001.
————————————————————————————————————————
Ahmed Al-Nami (Flight 93)
“I’m still alive, as you can see. I was shocked to see my name mentioned by the American Justice Department. I had never even heard of Pennsylvania where the plane I was supposed to have hijacked.” He had never lost his passport and found it “very worrying” that his identity appeared to have been “stolen” and published by the FBI without any checks. The FBI had said his “possible residence” was Delray Beach in Florida.” - Telegraph 23rd September 2001
blockquote>
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 7, 2005 at 5:29 AM
Salem Al-Hazmi (Flight 77)
“Mr Al-Hamzi is 26 and had just returned to work at a petrochemical complex in the industrial eastern city of Yanbou after a holiday in Saudi Arabia when the hijackers struck. He was accused of hijacking the American Airlines Flight 77 that hit the Pentagon.” - Telegraph 23rd September 2001.
————————————————————————————————————————
Khalid Al-Mihdhar (Flight 77)
“Saudi officials at the embassy were unable to verify the whereabouts of the fifth accused hijacker, Khalid Al-Mihdhar. However, Arab newspapers say Al-Mihdhar is still alive.
“..... there are suggestions that another suspect, Khalid Al Midhar may also be alive.” - BBC 23rd September 2001
————————————————————————————————————————
Others accused of being involved:
Ameer Bukhari
“Ameer Bukhari died in a small plane crash last year.” - CNN Correction
Adnan Bukhari
“Adnan Bukhari is still in Florida” - CNN Correction
Amer Kamfar
“.... that a suspect sought by the FBI, Amer Kamfar, was in fact an alive pilot in Arabia. ” - Wal Fadjri 21st September 2001 [translate]
————————————————————————————————————————
Even after the above has appeared in the world’s media the FBI has made no attempt to alter its web-sites which clearly list the wrong names, wrong photos, wrong identities and probably wrong nationalities of the real hijackers.
Given that the hijackers (if there were any) were clearly using false identities, why has the FBI never attempted to find out the hijackers true identities? Why does the FBI seem totally disinterested in apprehending the real culprits? This lack of action from one of our “trusted” government departments is very close to treason.
————————————————————————————————————————
THE ARABS ARE NOT TO BLAME FOR THE WTC ATTACK.
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 7, 2005 at 5:32 AM
THE ARABS ARE NOT TO BLAME FOR THE WTC ATTACK.
The evidence is such that the only people we can be sure DID NOT carry out the WTC bombing are the Arabs.
The trouble with the case against bin Laden and the Arabs, so far, is that it is laughable. It is a joke.
The WTC attack, described as brilliantly planned and executed by professionals, who some how forget to acquire (easily obtainable) false driver’s licenses for identification and, if you can believe it (and most people can not) used their real names when boarding the aircraft. The FBI suspect list was comprised using the assumption that those on the passenger lists had used their real names (real smart,.. these guys really earn their money eh?).
These same professionals, leave a car at an airport (which is found within hours of the attack,.. what a surprise!) with incriminating documents (a flight training manual in Arabic, etc). Professionals, (actually any sane persons) not wanting their “ground support” to be compromised, would take taxis to the airports.
When it is established that many, if not all the hijackers were using false identities the FBI suspect list does change (yeah, morons run the FBI).
One of the accused carries a passport on an internal flight (in case he wants to travel overseas after the attack).
This passport, originally in the accuseds luggage or on his person, rips through the suitcase or jacket, punches a hole through the WTC, survives the fireball and then flutters to the ground a few blocks away. Fortunately, the passport had the name of the accused on it and is generally in great condition, although apparently somewhat muddy.
One of the accused (Mohammed Atta) packs a suitcase (in case he wants to visit relatives for a few days after the attack) with a “how to be a terrorist in the US” document (just part of the professionalism, mentioned above) that just happens not to be loaded on the plane (so that the incriminating document survives,.. what a surprise!).
Mohammed Atta travels to Portland Maine to fly to Boston (why not drive straight to Boston) and transfers to the suicide flight. This is utterly unbelievable. This introduces a huge potential problem. What happens if his flight is delayed. How embarrassing for the so called leader of the terrorists, if he can’t make his connection. That would throw a spanner in the works. Transferring flights like this offers no upside but huge downside, and is considerable evidence that Atta has been framed.
And do not forget that phone calls were made from the planes blamed the hijacking on Israelis (actually, they used the words “middle eastern looking” but we all know that many Israelis are very middle eastern looking).
These laughable “facts” which all point to the Arabs can be viewed as strong evidence that the WTC attack was not carried out by the Arabs. These nonsense “facts” all point to an event where someone is being framed.
So the only people we can be sure did not carry out the WTC bombing are the Arabs.
Arabs are not to blame
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 7, 2005 at 5:34 AM
Commercial Pilot &
Aeronautical Engineer
Explains Why Official 9/11
Story About Pentagon Is Bogus
Nila Sagadevan sets the record straight about Pentagon crash while 9/11 fringe movement meets Dec. 7 in Tampa for beginning of five-day rally.
By Greg Szymanski
12-6-5
It’s impossible to fit a square peg in a round hole. It’s equally as impossible to fit a large 757 airliner through a small hole like left in the Pentagon wall after 9/11.
And this is just one of the many examples that the official 9/11 story makes no sense. In fact, it makes about as much sense as trying to keep jamming that square peg into that proverbial round hole.
However, while the feds fiddle with pegs that don’t fit, the 9/11 debate rages on across the country, mainly among the fringe truth movement groups whose numbers are small.
And this is precisely where politicians want the debate to remain, away from the public’s ear, since so far they have been dealt a winning 9/11 hand, knowing any serious measure to bring justice has been effectively cut-off.
So this week the fringe 9/11 movement takes its “forces and soldiers of truth” to Tampa and Miami, Florida, staging a five day assembly starting Dec 7 with the intent to spark a larger public debate and bring the “enemy within” to justice.
Millionaire Jimmy Walter is footing the bill and hosting the event with speakers to include Dave von Kleist, Joyce Riley, Morgan Reynolds, Eric Hufschmid, William Rodriguez and others. There is an $11 entry fee and it will be interesting to see the turn-out, including the media coverage which in the past has been sporadic at best for 9/11 truth events.
Although the speakers bring to the table interesting facts discounting the official story, Rodriguez will be the most compelling, telling his tale of hearing explosions in the basement prior to the airplane hitting the North Tower.
But one person in attendance not on the speaker’s list is commercial pilot and aeronautical engineer, Nila Sagedevan. And the reason he should be speaking, at least about the Pentagon crash, is because once he gives his technical rendition of why the government story is bogus, it’s like someone finally held up, for the whole world to see, the round peg fitting perfectly into the round hole.
In the past, many pilots and other experts have tried to communicate the impossibility of the flight pattern taken by an inexperienced Arab terrorist in the cockpit, but none have done a better job than Sagedevan, telling the story from an expert’s pint of view but communicating so the layman has no trouble understanding.
Recently, Sagadevan spent two hours on Greg Szymanski’s radio show, The Investigative Journal, on the Republic Broadcast Network at
www.rbnlive.com, leaving the audience nodding their heads in agreement that the Pentagon crash couldn’t have happened the way the government contends.
“Let’s look at it plain and simple,” said Sagadevan in an extended telephone conference this week from his home near San Diego. “The government wants us to believe that a person who couldn’t even solo a small Cessna took over the controls of a Boeing 757 jetliner and performed complicated maneuvers even myself or other experienced pilots could have never performed.
“It’s just not going to happen and, from my point of view, is impossible. If this was fabricated by the government so was the rest of the 9/11 story.”
But staying on point, Sagadevan wanted to further illustrate the absurdity of a small, inexperienced 5’8” Arab terrorist, taking over the controls of the jetliner from a burly, well-trained former military pilot.
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 7, 2005 at 5:36 AM
“You mean to tell me, the supposed terrorist overpowered the pilot, who weighed more than 185 lbs and trained in the military. And then after that overpowered the co-pilot in the same manner, a person who also weighed upwards of 185 lbs,” said Sagadevan, emphasizing experts aren’t needed to explain the absurdity of this portion of the government story.
“I am not sure if anyone has been in the cockpit of one of one of these big jets, but I will tell you there isn’t much space. How in the world would one man pull out two big pilots in cramped quarters while, at the same time, maintaining control of the airliner. Again, it’s just not going to happen.
“In the beginning right after 9/11, like most people, I believed most of what I heard about 9/11, not really giving much thought to a government conspiracy. However, about a year ago when I began gathering information related to my expertise as an aeronautical engineer and pilot, I began to see clearly how the government story regarding the four flights, their paths and their pilots didn’t make sense.
“Now I am firmly convinced after looking at an enormous amount of evidence, as well as using well-establishing aviation principles, that something else crashed into the Pentagon since it couldn’t have been a commercial jetliner.”
Besides calling attention to the impossibility of a untrained pilot performing complex flight maneuvers and navigation, Sagadevan said the flight path taken near the Pentagon was also impossible for a large jetliner to perform without crashing before reaching the Pentagon.
“First of all, the supposed pilot would have been overwhelmed just looking at the complexity of the cockpit controls,” said Sagadevan. “He would have had no idea what to do, but we are led to believe that he was able to turn the jet around, head back to Washington D.C. and then bank at high speeds and at a low altitude, hitting a target which would have looked as small as thimble from the air. Again, it’s impossible and you don’t really need an expert to make this final determination.”
Sagadevan was quick to point out one of the main problems with the government story is the low trajectory of the airplane, flying at high speeds and roughly only 20 feet off the ground for a long distance, another impossibility defying the standard principles of aviation.
“The evidence indicates that the airplane was flying low before it reached the Pentagon lawn since several light poles were sheared off several hundred yards away form the building,” explained Sagadevan. “With that in mind, the plane was traveling at about 400 knots at about 20 feet off the ground for a long distance prior to hitting the Pentagon.
“This in itself is an impossibility since the airplane would have been kept from hitting the ground by a cushion of air termed ‘ground effect.’ No pilot in the world would have been able to control the plane while maintained that air speed at 20 feet off the ground for that long a distance. Again, it’s just impossible but here I will admit that an expert is needed in order to explain the standards of lift and drag associated with flying a large airliner.
From the beginning of the supposed hijacking of Flight 77 and to its eventual crash into the Pentagon wall, Sagadevan presents a compelling case, essentially crushing the official story. He also mentioned the what’s also overlooked is the ‘jet wash’ from the airplane would have caused tremendous ground damage on the approach, something not evident in the aftermath of the Pentagon crash.
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 7, 2005 at 5:39 AM
“I really don’t understand how anyone could give the government’s story any credibility after seeing the original pictures taken of the small hole left in the Pentagon wall by whatever flew into it,” said Sagadevan. “I am not totally sure what the military used but one thing for sure, it wasn’t a 757 jetliner.”
Sagadevan is referring to the tiny circumference of the hole left in the Pentagon wall, illustrated on pictures taken right after the crash scene, but immediately taken out of circulation and never widely distributed by the news media to the American people.
“I think if someone just looks at the hole left and then looks at the size of 757, experts aren’t needed to determine it was an impossibility that a big jet hit the Pentagon wall, especially when there was very little wreckage visible after the crash,” added Sagadevan.
Regarding the Pentagon crash, as Sagadevan aptly points out, there are “so many holes in the story” that it becomes, as the English say, rather a laughing matter, making one believe even the bungling Inspector Clouseau, made famous by Peter Sellers, could crack the case wide open if given half a chance.
But the problem is Inspector Clouseau, Sagadevan and every other independent investigator haven’t been given the chance, leaving the case to be investigated and tried in the court of public opinion, a place where politicians like it and know they are safe from prosecution.
The logic of all those who question the offical Lie, is as always, beyond reproach. Only someone like Natty or a lunatic can stand against such self evident logic, simple clear truth, and you don’t need anything except an open mind, and then everything falls into place. A closed mind is what Natty is so valiantly showing us, a totally closed, and completely prostituted mind. A mind which has but one object, the crippling of Truth, The slowing down of the dissemination of information which will of course lead to the imprisonment and death penalty for many of her superiors. Who knows maybe Natty has a stake in it too. Maybe Natty is a Shill in the know. In which case she will be VERY expendable to some people one of these days. You just keep on shilling desperately girly, they’ll keep feeding you as long as you be a good shilly girl. But one day, chop chop, they don’t need you and you know too much.
the above reference.
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 7, 2005 at 5:46 AM
One of the best ways to prove a hypothesis, is to use it to predict something. Assuming Natty is a SHILL and it has been noticed that she isn’t a very smart one, then it started to become obvious to Rabbit that one thing she is so constantly denying and referring to, despite Rabbit having never seriously proposed it was the theory that no plane hit the pentagon. She seemed just a little too eager to keep protesting something which Rabbit wasn’t promoting. Why is she so concerned about this? Ah Ha, the Shill shows where it’s treasure is hidden again. Well, being convinced that a Shill of such dull wits, would indeed be likely to give away the location of it’s treasure Rabbit starts to look more closely at the Pentagon thing and there is furthermore new stuff popping up now.
Thank you Natty, the Rabbit is indebted to you for giving him a heads up on that one, he was otherwise inclined to dismiss most of the doubts about that one. Not so now.
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 7, 2005 at 5:54 AM
Anyone who wants to wade through the technical stuff, these guys have made a very interesting case. Shows the incredible maneuvers supposedly performed by inexperienced, even incompetant pilots, interetsting patterns emerge.
Team8plus
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 7, 2005 at 5:59 AM
Enjoy,
bye for now,
Vampire suck up some more defeat for your cause,.
Down Down deeper and down.
A Good days Shill wacking, that team8 presentation is probably really getting some of Natty’s employers very hot under the collar.
Come on Natty, you are dead in the water., Rabbit can go on posting excellent resources, they are coming down the pipeline more and more as the movement grows. As long as you slither and slime about you are once again only bringing further discredit on a cause which has shown as Rabbit predicted even less chance of success than your DU lies.
It is time for you to move on, here you are moaning about a something which is neither here nor there, and you are doing it on the bones of defeat. Time you moved on to your next assignment. We are seriously trashing the USA over Torture on the appropriate thread, here on ITT where you so like infesting. Go and defend the Junta, we are calling them Torturers, and we are saying Torture is evil. Come Natty, the trumpet blows, to battle, for evil and darkness, someone is questioning the masters. Also Bush LIES. Yes he does, and we all know it.
Torturers R US.
Oh but Natty doesn’t like crowds, she runs away when others come to play. She likes only to suck Rabbits. In the Dark the Vampire sneaks and tries to grab Rabbit, tries to suck his blood, but Rabbit is small and quick and the Vampire is slow and dull. Wack it with a stick and run Rabbit run.
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 7, 2005 at 6:12 AM
I will point out that there are readers watching this exchange. Silent spectators.
I like to watch ... heehee ... but I speak up every now and then too.
Posted by David in Canada on Dec 7, 2005 at 3:20 PM
Poor readers to read through it all. Poor Rabbit to post it all. Poor electrons who work hard to make it all happen.
Poor Natty’s computer which is being forced to perform the devils work. An Apple too, how sad.
Why won’t the Vampire take the bait Dave? Do you think it knows Rabbit is trying to trick it?
Torture…............Nat the Bat….............Torture…....smell of blood,
come and stand up for the torture which is so much a part of US foreign policy it seems.
The perfect accompaniment to Depleted Uranium.
Torture
Jiggle ...... jiggle ....was that a nibble
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 7, 2005 at 7:04 PM
In case you were wondering, Rabbit is building a bracket.
..................................................^^...........................................
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 7, 2005 at 7:06 PM
This may surprise some of you, seeing as how I am a vampire, a beast and most notably a SHILL, but I abhor torture. Can’t stand it. Give me DU, give me 9/11 LIES by the JUNTA to cover up, but don’t get me started on torture. It just seems wrong to me. I refuse to defend it.
Documented human rights violations 1979-2003
Human rights organizations have documented government approved executions, acts of torture, and rape for decades since Saddam Hussein came to power in 1979 until his fall in 2003.
In 2002, a resolution sponsored by the European Union was adopted by the Commission for Human Rights, which stated that there had been no improvement in the human rights crisis in Iraq. The statement condemned President Saddam Hussein’s government for its “systematic, widespread and extremely grave violations of human rights and international humanitarian law”. The resolution demanded that Iraq immediately put an end to its “summary and arbitrary executions… the use of rape as a political tool and all enforced and involuntary disappearances”.
Two years earlier, two human rights organizations, the International Federation of Human Rights League and the Coalition for Justice in Iraq released a joint report, accusing the Saddam Hussein regime of committing “massive and systematic” human rights violations, particularly against women. The report spoke of public beheadings of women who were accused of being prostitutes, which took place in front of family members, including children. The heads of the victims were publicly displayed near signs reading, “For the honor of Iraq.” The report documented 130 women who had been killed in this way, but stated that the actual number was probably much higher. The report also describes human rights violations directed against children. The report states that children, as young as 5 years old, are recruited into the “Ashbal Saddam,” or “Saddam’s Cubs,” and indoctrinated to adulate Saddam Hussein and denounce their own family members. The children are also subjected to military training, which includes cruelty to animals. The report also describes how parents of children are executed if they object to this treatment, and in some cases, the children themselves are imprisoned.
Full political participation at the national level was restricted only to members of the Arab Ba’ath Socialist Party, which constituted only 8% of the population. Therefore, it was impossible for Iraqi citizens to change their government.
Iraqi citizens were not allowed to assemble legally unless it was to express support for the government. The Iraqi government controlled the establishment of political parties, regulates their internal affairs and monitors their activities.
Police checkpoints on Iraqi’s roads and highways prevented ordinary citizens from traveling abroad without government permission and expensive exit visas. Before traveling, an Iraqi citizen had to post collateral. Iraqi women could not travel outside of the Country without the escort of a male relative.
The activities of citizens living inside Iraq who received money from relatives abroad were closely monitored.
cont…...
Posted by Natalie on Dec 8, 2005 at 12:20 AM
pg. 2
In 1988, the Hussein regime began a campaign of extermination against the Kurdish people living in Northern and Southern Iraq. This is known as the Anfal campaign. The attacks resulted in the death of at least 50,000 (some reports estimate as many as 100,000 people), many of them women and children. A team of Human Rights Watch investigators determined, after analyzing eighteen tons of captured Iraqi documents, testing soil samples and carrying out interviews with more than 350 witnesses, that the attacks on the Kurdish people were characterized by gross violations of human rights, including mass executions and disappearances of many tens of thousands of noncombatants, widespread use of chemical weapons including Sarin, mustard gas and nerve agents that killed thousands, the arbitrary imprisoning of tens of thousands of women, children, and elderly people for months in conditions of extreme deprivation, forced displacement of hundreds of thousands of villagers after the demolition of their homes, and the wholesale destruction of nearly two thousand villages along with their schools, mosques, farms, and power stations.
In April 1991, after Saddam lost control of Kuwait in the Gulf War, he cracked down ruthlessly against uprisings in the Kurdish north and the Shia south. His forces committed wholesale massacres and other gross human rights violations against both groups similar to the violations mentioned before. Estimates of deaths during that time range from 40,000 to 100,000 for Kurds, and 60,000 to 130,000 for Shi’ites.
In June of 1994, the Hussein regime in Iraq established severe penalties, including amputation, branding and the death penalty for criminal offenses such as theft, corruption, currency speculation and military desertion.
On March 23, 2003, during the 2003 invasion of Iraq, Iraqi television presented and interviewed prisoners of war on TV, violating the Geneva Convention.
In March of 2003, Britain released video footage of Iraqi soldiers firing on fleeing Iraqi citizens near the town of Basra in southern Iraq.
Also in April of 2003, CNN revealed that it had withheld information about Iraq torturing journalists and Iraqi citizens in the 1990s. According to CNN’s chief news executive, the channel had been concerned for the safety not only of its own staff, but also of Iraqi sources and informants, who could expect punishment for speaking freely to reporters. Also according to the executive, “other news organizations were in the same bind.” [1]
After the 2003 Invasion of Iraq, several mass graves were found in Iraq containing several thousand bodies total, and more are being uncovered to this day. While most of the dead in the graves were believed to have died in the 1991 uprising against Saddam Hussein, some of them appeared to have died due to executions or died at times other than the 1991 rebellion.
Also after the invasion, numerous torture centers were found in security offices and police stations throughout Iraq. The equipment found at these centers typically included hooks for hanging people by the hands for beatings, devices for electric shock, and other equipment often found in nations with harsh security services and other middle eastern nations.
According to some reports, torture was used to improve the performance of the Iraqi soccer team.
Posted by Natalie on Dec 8, 2005 at 12:21 AM
Natty quickly. Help these poor defenders of the USA, they are trying to stand up for denial and delusion, but are clearly out numbered, at least in IQ count.
They need your help
“Help, Natalie, help, we need an Innocent, wide eyed, all American Girl to come to our rescue, ....help….. we need her open mind and discernment, her unique American morality to show these ignorant Witches and Rabbits and to hold back the light, it’s hurting our eyes, help…..”
Torture, .. Blood….smell the death Vampire.
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 8, 2005 at 12:25 AM
The News We Kept To Ourselves
04/11/03 EASON JORDAN
ATLANTA
Posted by Natalie on Dec 8, 2005 at 12:26 AM
pg. 2
Then there were the events that were not unreported but that nonetheless still haunt me. A 31-year-old Kuwaiti woman, Asrar Qabandi, was captured by Iraqi secret police occupying her country in 1990 for “crimes,” one of which included speaking with CNN on the phone. They beat her daily for two months, forcing her father to watch. In January 1991, on the eve of the American-led offensive, they smashed her skull and tore her body apart limb by limb. A plastic bag containing her body parts was left on the doorstep of her family’s home.
I felt awful having these stories bottled up inside me. Now that Saddam Hussein’s regime is gone, I suspect we will hear many, many more gut-wrenching tales from Iraqis about the decades of torment. At last, these stories can be told freely.
Eason Jordan is chief news executive at CNN.
Source: New York Times.
Posted by Natalie on Dec 8, 2005 at 12:27 AM
Ha ha, she has bitten, and was Rabbit quick on the line or what.
Rabbit swears he posted that last post totally randomly, between boats, and he got her, the eel is on the line, a bit.
Natty nothing you said was a surprise, it was exactly the way Rabbit predicted you would eneter the fray. Start saying torture is evil and you abhor it, and then start pointing your nasty finger at Saddam Hussein, at the Taliban, and anywhere , but away from yourself. Of course you abhor Torture you good little Shill. Lovely loopy Vampy miss, did you seriously think the old Rabbit expected you to come into this dressed in your cape and with fangs in place? Slavering over torture and pain and blood. No you will dress for the occasion, like any respectable person. You might as well go to the thread, dear enemy. It awaits you.
So far the torture thread has been without more than token resistance, but a couple of “Handlers” seem to be on it. Awaiting a leader of course. Otherwise the damned enemies of the Good and Noble Junta, Rabbit and others, are dominating the torture thread.
Of course you abhor torture, except when the USA does it, right?
Not here Nat go to the right thread.
If it will help Rabbit will say you win this debate. Of course the official Lie, I mean Story is true, and Rabbit cannot ever imagine why he would have thought otherwise. You have made it abundantly clear, and Rabbit agrees with everything you say.
Rabbit is offering himself as president of the I believe Natalie club, are there any objections from other believers?
Don’t forhget to read the Article Natty, it isn’t actually Saddam Hussein’s Torture we were discussing, but you are welcome to raise it, it is certainly relevant.
They are using the same torture centers for a start.
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 8, 2005 at 12:52 AM
Wrong Place, you go to the right thread, this is cowardly, avoiding even the real debate. Sneaking around like a disease.
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 8, 2005 at 12:56 AM
Nat that last post didn’ register on the referencing scale, have you leanred nothing yet?
Take it where it counts, Rabbit is out of here, you’ve got directions.
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 8, 2005 at 12:58 AM
I sense an attempt to change the subject. Could this possibly be because you realize that there is nothing to your fantasy about the 9/11 hijackers being alive? And because your oft repeated nonsense about ALL the steel being carted away to foreign smelts is a total misrepresentation of reality?
Things you’ve railed about from day one and now that I’ve finally addressed them and identified them for the hoaxs they are, you want to flee to ANOTHER fantasy…..that being that the USA is all about torture.
You say Hussein’s torture is relevant. How relevant is it really, to you? Do a few perverts (that were already under investigation by the military by the time their games were revealed) humiliating some muslim thugs trump body parts being delivered to your doorstep like so much pizza?
Please reassure the blogosphere that your sense of proportion hasn’t been compromised by the copious amounts of reality-altering substances you’ve inhaled.
Posted by Natalie on Dec 8, 2005 at 1:45 AM
Yes Natty that’s right, you have convinced the Rabbit, you are just so logical and all, that is why you have so many others convinced as well. More ad-hominem attacks , but what could we expect from the dregs of moral and intellectual credibility, such as thou.
Rabbit has repeated the same questions many times, because you were ignoring them, if that is railing girly so be it. You are the one who has Railed at anyone who said anything you didn’t like, without even checking any facts, as you proved with Professor Astenah. Denying and Lying it is easy to pretend to be cool, but nothing can save you from looking like a fool.
You do indeed sense correctly, Rabbit is changing the subject yet again, having shown you to be a shamless denialist for Depleted Uranium, and an equally shameless denialist for the dying embers of the official lie about 911, Rabbit would now like to see if you are as perfect a Shill as he predicts, and see you Shill for Torture. But on thread. You are the one who moved a deabte you had been trashed in and pretended it hadn’t happened. As always Rabbit stands simply with his small paw pointing back up the thread, back to where it all has been said. The truth stands tall, and Natty’s story never learned to crawl.
Now careful about whose mental faculties you question when you have patently been trounced and all hands agree, by a Rabbit who may or may not be.
The logic, the reason and the whole case rest without question where I predicted they would and Rabbit never even tried.
Without trying rabbit has had three, no less than three separate people state they have had cause to reconsider their view of 911, due to Rabbit’s small efforts and one of them was a TROLL. What have you got?
Now if it makes you feel good, Rabbit will say you won, then since it is the last thing he says, just like you always ignore everything that was said before, why can’t you believe Rabbit means it. All wrong.,.. silly Rabbit… Clever Natty,
The nasty Vampire was all right, Rabbit was all wrong. Everybody else was all wrong. Natty was all right.
now come and tell everybody how much you deplore torture. Show us you are not a shill. Not that Rabbit thinks you are. Oh no. She’s not a Shill, that’s right folks, she is just a clever, honest American Girl. Tells it like it is. No bullshit here. No way, Natty’ is all right.
YUP
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 8, 2005 at 3:04 AM
Over to the right thread and you will have your answers, and Rabbit has a lovely one for you. Not here, you are such a messy creature. Rabbit asked permission of relevant people, to use the God Squad Thread for a 911 dust up. You came and were very rude on this thread. Now you are being rude as well as cowardly and slimy, by answering a Torture Issue when it was raised all along as a relevant thread. Rabbit is sick of 911 issues just now, things are moving along nicely in the area anyway, there is no stopping the tide of public awareness on it, so it is not even a particularly pressing thing. More cracks are appearing faster at the moment to, Rabbit has been noting articles a lot without posting them of late, simply because there is little point.
The lie is flat, dead and never even rose to the surface in world opinion.
It is losing ground even in the most deluded nation in the world. What more need a Rabbit do?
Whoops the silly Rabbit forgot. Of course the official lie is true, Rabbit accepts this, he does really.
Thanks to Natalie.
Hooray for Natalie.
All the witnesses were imagining things. All the news sources which interviewed and reported on the various alleged living hijackers were lying and all three World Trade Centers fell down like a deck of cards into their own footprints after about ninety minutes of fire. World Trade Centers are special buildings, so radically different to all other skyscrapers, that a fire is all it takes to make them collapse like a demolition. But without the explosives. A sort of inbuilt redundancy, very American.
Thanks to Natalie rabbit understands this now. A couple of government paid people have said this is what happened, and that this sort of thing is very hard to understand, but that it can be understood by them. Rabbit can’t understand it, and Natty can’t understand it, but these guys understand it and anybody else who says anything different does not understand it even if they say they do. Even if they had qualifications and careers before saying the government is lying, these guys don’t have for much longer after saying otherwise, that just proves they were lying all along. Of course the US Government is a paragon of virtue, and it is Natalie we have to thank for bringing this to the fore.
Hooray for Nat.
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 8, 2005 at 3:22 AM
Natty, Saddams torture was relevant to Rabbit when Saddam was in power and the USA was supporting him, supplying him with Weapons of Mass Destruction and turning a blind eye to horrors which haven’t been equalled until the USA started using depleted Uranium and White Phosphorous and Napalm on Iraqi towns.
He has had and still has friends in Iraq and out for whom it is more real than your Shill briefings.
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 8, 2005 at 3:32 AM
Just because Hussein was evil, does not set a bemchmark below which all else is acceptable. You are probably too young to remember how democracy and freedom used to be defined. How Civilized countries acted, but it was not what you are trying to sell.
You are a fine one to talk about not answering things. You have answered as said selected small bits and ignored 95% of what was written. Always trying to debate non starters, for no other reason than to avoid the real issues. You have ignored both the Surviving Alleged Hiajckers and the destroyed evidence from the start, and they were among the thgings you “Ran Away From” and brought to a new thread to try and answer them as if you hadn’t already had everything necessary on both issues. You have had enough to convinve any rational person, and the fact that you are continuing to deny menas nothing, you have never acknowledged anything Natty. The answer to your questions are all long since posted, and you are just playing games. Rabbit will not dance for you, you shall dance for rabbit, like you are supposed to.
Now Rabbit is going to start posting your Torture rants over to the appropriate thread. You can follow, or they will be dealt with in your absence. Rabbit couldn’t care less.
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 8, 2005 at 4:07 AM
Oh and Natty, let Rabbit warn you in advance, The New York Times, does not pass for a credible source these days, especially about Iraq., That little tale above doesn’t have a chance of being taken seriously if you can’t do a bit better than that.
What sort of a dream world do you live in?
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 8, 2005 at 4:10 AM
Oh but Rabbit. Wasn’t it the NY Times that led the charge for months on end about all the “atrocities” and “torture” that were committed by the U.S. in anti-grab?
I think you’ve finally said something that resembles reality:
“The New York Times does not pass for a credible source”
Actually, in this case, it was only a reprint of the CNN’s chief’s words, so we’ll go with it. I guess we can trust them to copy and paste.
It does say quite a lot though, that you would apparently put the credibility of a bunch of hastily created conspiracy kook websites over that of a news organization that I think actually occasionally tries to do some fact-checking. I think that’s probably why your murder theory about the towers hasn’t as yet graced its perfect for bird-cage liner pages.
The Times may be ridiculously biased toward the left which causes them to get a lot wrong, but they aren’t COMPLETELY stupid.
Posted by Natalie on Dec 8, 2005 at 9:30 AM
Natalie,
You are ignorant. You live in a black and white world to which you have conceded your own conscience. Unable to think for yourself, you rely upon an external ideology of hatred for anyone or any thought that conflicts with your unquestioning belief. In this you are no different than the most deluded Islamic fundamentalist. Those who you believe in are those who would manipulate you for their own ends. Wake up!
Posted by luminous beauty on Dec 8, 2005 at 9:50 AM
Oh, ouch.
Right, lb, I could pretty much say the same thing about you. You’re the ignorant one unable to think enough for yourself to decide whether or not your own govt. intentionally murdered thousands of people on 9/11. Or have you made up your mind? Has Rabbit converted you yet? Get out of the street and choose a side.
You seem not to hesitate to slam others for disagreeing with your world-view. In my case it’s hatred and in your case it’s what….enlightened discussion? The double standard is breathtaking.
The only “hatred” here is coming from those who would falsely charge innocent people with murder by way of an avalanche of out of context “evidence”, and from those who would twist and mold aggressive interrogation techniques and some sophomoric pranks into “torture”, thereby smearing the good name of honorable people trying to prevent the REAL murderers of 9/11 from killing more untold thousands of people, Americans or otherwise.
I’m simply defending their good name. You’re the deluded, fundamental one who has no doubt fallen prey to your own external leftist ideology if you think the name of America and those who defend it isn’t for the most part, extremely good.
You wake up!!
Posted by Natalie on Dec 8, 2005 at 9:00 PM
<i>Oh but Rabbit. Wasn
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 8, 2005 at 9:13 PM
Natalie you did not arrive at the conclusions you have about 911, by thinking about anything, how stupid do you think we are ? Or how stupid are you if you think that what happened when you got those those ideas was called thinking. That was called believing. Blind acceptance. Like all these things you push the one line and ignore all else precisely becasue you cannot and have not thought about anything.
There are no words in the language to describe the degradation of language, the base prostitution of concepts as excuses for sheer Shilling of the official lie. Nothing you say or ever have said has ever varied from the official stamped out of the machine, US government approved version. You are much like a machine except you are not as hard to use as many machines.
This kind of blank total suckup to the JUNTA’s program, you funny clowny thing is the very definition of living whilst not thinking. You have no variation on your theme, and yet you accuse many varied and random, intelligent and articulate, informed and reasonable people of being one tracked, of being locked into dishonest motivations, of ignoring obvious truths, while the whole time what is patently obvious to all and sundry, is that you projecting all your own failings onto all who disagree with you.
The eventual result of this is something like what has happened now.
You would appear by your own reckoning to be extremely open minded, well researched and informed as well as completely honest and of many and various opinions.
You are meanwhile being faced with a multitude of other posters who are all behaving in exactly the same manner, have similar dishonest goals, misunderstandings and who are all very much the same sort of person. No variation among them, since there is no variation between the way you deal with them all. They are all part of a wider conspiracy and are completely irrational, ill-informed and mad.
Rabbit would say the only thing all of us would agree upon, is that you are a dead loss to a rational discussion.
Just as a Shill is meant to be.
Funny that.
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 8, 2005 at 9:32 PM
Bogus 9/11 truth websites
rense.com
A site that publishes good material and red herrings. The kindest interpretation is that it desperately needs an editor.
Rense is most useful in seeing what the latest nonsense is from the hoaxers trying to disrupt the 9/11 truth movement. The only question is whether they are consciously part of this campaign, or whether their gullibility allows them to be used by the hoaxers. The fact they prominently link to Holocaust Denial stuff is strong evidence they are consciously part of the problem (Rense has numerous promotions on their main page - as of March 2005 - to neo-nazi Ernst Zundel, one of the heroes of holocaust denial advocates). Rense is also promoting an article claiming that Peak Oil is a “zionist conspiracy” which is part of a propaganda effort to counter growing awareness of Peak Oil through publication of articles claiming that petroleum is “abiotic” and therefore unlimited.
A recent article http://www.rense.com/general58/bogus.htm is part of the strange attack on Michael Ruppert on the occasion of his book being published. No one seems to have written a direct attack on the contents of “Crossing the Rubicon,” although the volume of mud being thrown at Mike has increased substantially. These attacks studiously ignore the substance of the book, and make a variety of distracting claims.
Rense claims that they’re working to separate the wheat from the chaff, and get over 1,000 emails per day, making this determination difficult to do at times. Perhaps a good rule to follow is that outlandish claims based on blurry pictures of questionable authenticity that are only sourced to websites should be ignored, not used as the basis to pretend that there’s new “news” about the 9/11 investigations. Websites that operate as an electronic vacuum cleaner sucking up all claims without making even a small effort to differentiate facts from rumors, truths from disinformation are not reliable as news sources, even if some of the articles they post are excellent.
Sounds like some kind of journalism Russian Roulette to me.
Bogus
Posted by Natalie on Dec 10, 2005 at 10:48 AM
americanfreepress.net
The “American Free Press” is an ultra-right-wing newspaper that also publishes the “Barnes Review,” a neo-Nazi holocaust denial publication and website that has praised Hitler as worthy of the Nobel Peace Prize and sells a variety of obnoxious books that pretend the Holocaust did not happen. The so-called AFP has created a number of hoaxes (the “no plane crash in Pennsylvania” claim, possibly the “Building 6 explosion” hoax) and has been promoting others, such as “no plane crash at the Pentagon.”
AFP also works closely with KKK leader David Duke (by their own admission).
**********************************
arcticbeacon.com
a website publishing 9/11 articles by Greg Syzmanski
Syzmanski is typically published by American Free Press. Here’s how Syzmanski’s associated website describes AFP:
“American Free Press The grandfather of all alternative newspapers. This insightful publication prints news you can’t get from the mainstream, corporate-driven media. Take a look and buy a subscription.”
Syzmanski’s associated website, Arctic Beacon, states that:
“Accordingly, our intended course is formatted in a monthly, highly colorful news magazine covering but not limited to the following topics . . .
Government Secrets and Cover-ups;
Religious and Spiritual Phenomena;
Unpopular Science;
Suppressed Health Alternatives;
Legal/ Social Injustice and
Environmental Protection
and
Alien Presence on Earth and
UFO Phenomena.”
http://www.arcticbeacon.citymaker.com/arcticbeacon.html
So you can see that what’s going on here, once again - sandwich in typical left causes (environment, alternative health, legal/social injustice) with UFOs and even, ‘Alien Presence on Earth,’ worse than just UFOs.
Here’s another good one in there:
“If you think the Republic is worth saving, then donate to Public Domain Publishing . . . So join us in our fight to save the Republic by pledging your financial support to Voices of Freedom.”
How many leftists do you know that refer to the US as ‘the Republic,’ and describe things as ‘Voices of Freedom? Assuming the site is Libertarian, how many Libertarians are environmentalists and into ‘legal/social justice?’ Thus the site professes to be Left-oriented as far as it’s goals, and lures people on the left to thinking they are being represented, but basically it puts out stories pushing rewritten nonsense about 9/11.
Here’s an excerpt from the latest Syzmanski gem:
“Burn victim, Felipe David, employed by Aramark Co. and Salvatore Giambanco, a WTC office painter trapped in a basement elevator, were both unavailable for comment, but made their explosive testimony - never before released in America - to a Colombian television station in 2002 on the first anniversary of 9/11.”
Both unavailable for comment. This is typical of Syzmanski - instead of real reporting, he rehashes clips from other mainstream stories and then tries to amplify them into the message he wants to send. His goal right now is to push the ‘bombs in the basement’ scenario on 9/11. There are a number of problems with this issue, one being that the first person involved in this, William Rodriguez, also said he saw one of the hijackers scoping the building ahead of time - that ‘hijacker’ turns out to be alive, according to the BBC, and so the story is tainted by this bizarre claim, which Rodriguez testified to the Omission Commission.
Rodriguez is also associated with the bogus RICO suit that promotes missiles on 9/11.
Bogus
Posted by Natalie on Dec 10, 2005 at 1:21 PM
From Jim Hoffman, webmaster of wtc7.net (widely regarded as the best “physical evidence” website examining 9/11) and 911review.com (not org):
For all I know Chris [Bollyn] is a sincere (despite apparently embracing some amazing Holocaust revisionist views) hardworking investigative reporter. If that’s true, however, he doesn’t seem to apply a very good critical filter to the information he gathers. For example, he appears to be the source of some of the more deeply ingrained errors in the 9/11 skeptics’ literature, such as the Building 6 explosion myth and the idea that seismic spikes preceded the collapses.
I recently spoke at an event in Los Angeles: “Solving the 9/11 Crime - A Citizens’ Grand Jury”, in which Chris was promoting “In Plane Site”, and presenting dozens of ideas for which I see no basis in evidence. I was so disturbed at the damage he was doing to the credibility of careful research that I spent half my talk debunking the more nonsensical ideas he advanced in his talk before mine.
Bogus
Posted by Natalie on Dec 10, 2005 at 5:47 PM
Ha Ha.
Natalie the Shill, thinks that posting this garbage, the usual As-hominem attacks.
You don’t seriously think anyone is going to even bother reading any of that? Even Rabbit only skimmed it. Worthless, ad-hominem, attacks on strawmen argumenst. Been there before, you don’t comprehend Facts, opinions and the separation of the two, proven.
You don’t comprehend the differnec between presenting a selection of genuine news, and reporting the offiical paid for broadcasts which are stock in trade for the MSM you still rely on You are alone, friendless, clueless and completely disrespected.
Rabbit has just been looking at some of the earlier things which you ran away from. Following will be a selection of re-posts. A massive undertaking, largely pointless, beyond showing here what has already been shown there. Mainly to annoy you and show what a lying SHILL you are.
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 10, 2005 at 8:00 PM
<i>
The first outing of Ramjet was of utmost importance in showing that a known Shill for the Pentagon lies was involved. At that point had you been open minded you would have read all the references given by people. Rabbit just did so last night, went through all the refs and sources given in just the first two pages, and Natalie there is no way anyone could have emerged after that with anything but a conviction that so called Depleted Uranium was an unnaceptable way to wage war.
That is important when related to your claims of having tried to establish the truth. At the very least there had to be sufficient reasons to employ proper tersting of all soldiers, even this you have resisted.
Since you cannot even do this much for your troops, please stop coming off with ridiculous lines like this.
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 10, 2005 at 8:06 PM
<i>
oops, I meant You and DU were the only things those two threads had in common.
Now if you are not connected to Roger you have to realise that someone was pulling monkey tricks, and what about Pale Rider? the same thing happened and he was very polite. But his info was dynamite, and somebody didn
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 10, 2005 at 8:11 PM
<i>
To be taken seriously you need to admit that Ramjet is one, he is long since ID
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 10, 2005 at 8:15 PM
POPULAR MECHANICS.
Rabbit read the Popular Mechanic article when it first came out, and independantly came to all the same conclusions as follows. The most obvious thing to Rabbit was that most of the
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 10, 2005 at 8:32 PM
This is an excellent site, very information intensive and it deals with the Popular Mechanics article in it
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 10, 2005 at 8:33 PM
Whit posted the following to you:
<i>
Published on Sunday, October 9, 2005
by The Independent
Tell Us Who Fabricated the Iraq Evidence (P1)
by Norman Dombey
President Bush
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 10, 2005 at 8:36 PM
<i>Tell Us Who Fabricated the Iraq Evidence (P2)
by Norman Dombey
A clue to the ancestry of these black arts can be found in 1980, when right-wing Republicans wanted Ronald Reagan elected. They publicised a story that Billy Carter, the then President Jimmy Carter
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 10, 2005 at 8:38 PM
<i>Now it is not normally considered good form or much point in attacking the credibility of the author or publication, but it is by no means a blanket rule. If as in this case it shows the magazine is of a certain bias, and that the author is also,
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 10, 2005 at 8:46 PM
Another posting you ignored at the time. Look at the date, here you are two months later still struggling, actually raisning things that were dealt with months ago. Maybe you have a short memory, or non at all?
<i>One engineering aspect of the collapse I haven
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 10, 2005 at 8:50 PM
SAVE 53% OFFTHE NEWSSTAND PRICE!
Reader Comments
“Swans sing before they die; ‘twere no bad thing
Did certain persons die before they sing.”
Samuel Taylor Coleridge
I enjoyed the debates with Mr. Cline and hoped he walked away with a little something to ponder. Maybe…maybe not.
Thanks, Jay, for all you’ve written. I agree whole-heartedly with most of what you’ve expressed, and have added your blog to my reading list.
Fare Well, as well, although I hope you’ll be posting more here at ITT on other subjects.
Natalie
I—and a select few—recently received a questionaire and solicitation from the Democratic National Committee. The questions, about 18, reflected economic and social concerns of progressives—e.g., health care, social security, poverty, education, reproductive rights, and so on, but NOT ONE WORD about the unending war on Iraq. Outrageous!!!!I filled out the questionaire and added in the “comments” section that I will be glad to send a modest contribution provided the Democratic Party strongly advocates the immediate orderly , phased withdrawal of US troops from Iraq. Not expecting a seismic reaction from the DNC, but if enough voices are heard…who nose?
Well, I’ve used up my quota of exclamation points so I must bid you Good Day and Good Luck! (sorry)
Here here, Lume. What better last shot for Jay than to have a proponent of Depleted Uranium, Government LIES and Torture, as well as pre-emptive Nuclear Strikes, like the SHILL Natty the Batty.
Beowulf did not post direct the above, thinks Rabbit but they were long since posted on God Squad and you ignored them then was my point dead buzzard. Not a Swan, Swans are nasty, brave and pretty, Jay is pathetic, cowardly and ugly of soul at least.
So are you Natty. The Vampire returneth. New assignment have we deary? Or maybe the propaganda team has decided on the new course of action to be taken now that Professor Jones and Sixty of his colleaugues demand a new investigation, and basically are saying the government did it.
Let Rabbit guess…....................You’ve decided to smear the guy?
Beowulf, you deserve a medal for hope, the eternal optimist if you think Jay got anything past his sphincter. You see, that is the direct course to his brain and unless you know that you are wasting your time. This is also why Jay never says anything from the brain. How the hell can any thoughts travel all the way up to his mouth? So what the ingenuous fellow has done, is he has swapped the roles of the two ends of his body.
A goodbye isn’t painful unless you’re never going to say hello again.
Jay, goodbye ... for now?
I am aware that many follow these threads. My posts were more for the awakening of the few that may follow and read what I offered more so than pointing Jay in a new direction. I have always believed that 911 is the lynchpin to this whole mess and never paused a moment in the last three years addressing that point. If we are to stop this and future wars, then we have to reevaluate the source. I hope a few souls out there maybe now realize we are not foolhardy conspiracy nuts, but serious analysts seeking the truth in a dragnet of lies.
“By The Way, Jay. The Professor Jones report is the end of the planes and fuel did it case, which is why the government Shill, Natalie, gave up.”
Fanciful thinking, and as is usually the case when a certain someone tries to characterize me or my motivations, quite wrong.
A stimulating, substantive discussion on the subject of the WTC towers (and bldg. 7) collapses:
PhysOrgForums
Ongoing back and forth. Very interesting spirited discussion.
As for Jones, I am dissapointed that he apparently has ended his media appearances / interviews. I was looking forward to this issue coming out of the Internet closet and seeing how well it holds up to scrutiny.
It will be intereresting to see just which publication accepts his paper, and what their policy of “peer review” entails.
Beowulf, Rabbit understands, and also uses such as Jay and even better the Shill, Natalie, to post to expound the truth. With them as foils it goes best. Natty who now pops in has been baited by Rabbit and expected. She would appear to be a government employed propagandist, the sort employed at the end of the long and sneaky line of and
Rendon his type. How is Rendon Natty? Do you ever meet the big boss or do you just work for a smaller contractor?
Natty has already smoked and mirrored and ducked and dived and dissembled and lost every single point, as far as supporting her weird conspiracy theory. You really should aquaint yourself with the extent of Natty’s willingness to whore her mind for nothing but her cause. She is “assigned” the issues of Depleted Uranium, 911, and Rabbit is guessing she is all for torture too. She is so under orders that she can be led around by the nose like a dog, a further investigation of her history on another thread, is even more telling in this regard. That one is Radioactive Wounds of War. Make no mistake Rabbit calls her a Shill for she is shown to be one, not out of any imaginings.
Like all Shills and Trolls too for their own reasons, she pretends that everything posted dissappears and can never be checked for truth later.
Just a heads up Beowulf and other newcomers. Rabbit was right about Jay DeCline no?
Dissenters are welcome, but not LIARS.
Oh and Natty has been asked upwards of fifteen times now to account for the Seven Live Suicide Bombers.
She ignores things like that, while telling us that our sources and experts quoted take LSD or are part of a huge conspiracy of Anti_US interests. Or linking to the Fema report, or to any one of the half dozen lonely discredited well known spin holes.
The link Natty posted is to nothing more than a discussion like these, and though off topic the details are even more thoroughly covered on our own God Squad thread linked to above. Talk about the endless story, you never give up do you Nat? Well Rabbit is not going to allow you to do your favorite trick of dancing around the Blackberry bush. The things on which you have been thrashed already, most everything, especially the FACT that the buildings were brought down with explosives. This has been thoroughly covered and you LOST, LOSE and are lost. Proffessor Jones came along in the middle of a claim by you that all those details, we had already covered and given the same conclusions to, had no EngineeringExperts and after trying to slander about sa dozen Prof Jones popped up in the news and you ran away. Now as predicted you are back and looking for somewhere to stick some of your slime. Natty the Batty is a Slime artist guys.
Still doubt a high level conspiracy on 911?
Why does Rabbit be a Ghost sometimes? Rabbit is a split personality.
Rabbit and GhostRabbit. That is interesting. Ghost electrons? Or is it electron ghosts?
It’s a panoply of the absurd and yet entirely of this world. Historian Dieter Groh writes that conspiracy theorists “represent a constant temptation for all of us” because they are a constant in western history. According to Groh, “the historical sequence before the French Revolution is one of Jews, heretics, witches, followed by Jews, Communists, capitalists, and secret services” after the revolutionary year of 1789.
As diverse as these theories and their adherents may be, they share a basic thought pattern: great tragedies must have great reasons. According to this way of thinking, it would be impossible for a small group of Islamists to strike such a damaging surprise blow against superpower USA, with all its weapons and intelligence services.
“The wonderful thing about a conspiracy theory is that it allows you to understand everything perfectly,” says American political scientist Michael Barkun in an effort to explain the continued success of conspiracy theories. It “discloses to you that all the evil in the world can be attributed to a single cause, and that THEY are this cause, whoever they might be.”
Of course, THEY - the Americans, in the case of September 11th - make things rather easy for those with a lot of imagination. That’s because conspiracy theories, says Groh, only take hold when they come into contact with reality. To ensure that their “mechanism functions properly, they must fit into the prevailing interpretation patterns of a group, nation, culture or religion the way a key fits into a lock.”...........
.............Br
Are You Sure Laughing at Conspiracy Theories Makes You Smart?
Natty we agree that people who ascribe to weird conspiracy theories are wackos. This is why we are now treating you as a wacko. You have this weird conspiracy theory which relies on a few government employess to claim it, against all evidence and by having a number of firsts in history, not once but up to three times on one day. Basically the conspiracy theory to which you ascribe is the most utterly insane and unbelieveable, not to mention dscredited one on the block. TRhis is why Rabbit did not even read most of your post anymore. You have not got even the credibility you were awarded for free at the outset of a debate which followed your outing as a government disinfo agent.
It is by no means certain that others have done the same but it is likely, you may notice how much support you’ve recieved along the way. Many have visited and either helped the rabbit wack you a bit, or they have even on occassion changed their initial belief in your conspiracy theory to an understanding of the Lies and an acceptance that the truth is something else.
Mostly thoughthey have left you to the Rabbit to feed on, you were lured here for this purpose and to stop you further polluting the Depleted Uranium thread, which was nearing a satisfactory conclusion. You were filling it like this with so much useless crap that the better parts fof the truth were being lost a bit amongst the garbage. Of course this is the tactic, and it is probably called “plan B” among Shills, filling up the thread and making it so long that nobody is likely to read it all.
Like everything else we the truthful and honest folk have a way around you. The clue is that the web is a permanent record. The government lies are being dealt with here there and everywhere, and the effect is apparent.
Your support base is being quickly eroded, or did you think the loss of faith in the government and it’s lies, was being caused by MSM reporting?
..................Down Down deeper and Down…...................
Nineteen suicide bombers and seven are still alive, what a wacko conspiracy theory that is.
Sixteen times Natty.
Rabbit just skimmed your post, you did do a try at the live “alleged Bombers” after all. Sorry though it isn’t up to anything.
Rabbit will not waste his time. They are alive you dimwit, they have been interviewed, they have absolutely been proven to be alive as far as any news can be, heh, maybe the US is not in Iraq at all? Maybe all the pictures are just faked? If the living men had been photographed and videotaped, do you seriously expect us to believe you would have accepted that? Of course not, you would have claimed they were faked or standins.
No way, they are alive, the reports are in far more and far more trustworthy sources than the controlled American media. Just becuase you don’t like the news, is no excuse to dicount it. You know if the choice is between everyone who opposes your Junta as being involved in a worldwide lying and disinformation campaign of a scale never before seen in history, or the increasingly isolated and discredited US Criminal Junta doing the same, guess which bet the smart money would take?
Rabbit can already see Natty should not be a gambler. You have a permanent losing ticket there girly.
Links are posted as refs only and if anyone cares they will be hyperlinked if you can’t work them due to broken lines. they are merely refs for the aforementioned
On the morning of September 11th, American Airlines Flight 11, along with 10 crew members and 81 passengers, departed from Boston
A crew member on that flight, Madeline Amy Sweeney, (purportedly) was able to place a cell phone call to her ground manager during the hijacking. The assembled FBI transcript of this (recorded) call, was reviewed by the LA times and published on September 20th. A close examination of this transcript, however, proves to be very perplexing for a number of reasons: In it, Ms. Sweeney claims that the hijackers had stabbed two flight attendants and slit the throat of a business-class passenger, killing him. In addition, according to a recently released FAA memo produced on 9/11/01, one passenger is even mentioned as being shot. What
Returning back again to AA Flight 11, another problem concerns the time-line of the cell phone call made by the flight attendant. In it, she claims that (shortly after) the hijackers gained access to the cockpit, the plane quickly changed direction and started rapidly descending towards the WTC - eliciting from her, the chilling statements:
Taken together, all of the inconsistencies discussed above, and more of which that follows, may very well indicate that the AA Flight 11, as well as the other hijacked flights on 9/11, were commandeered by other means. This very possibility, has been proffered by a number of aviation professionals and pilots, who have voiced serious doubts that the suspects in question, could
“Rabbit will not waste his time. They are alive you dimwit, they have been interviewed, they have absolutely been proven to be alive as far as any news can be, heh, maybe the US is not in Iraq at all?”
I assume you can provide links to the video interviews of these people, so we can compare their likenesses to the photos of the men included in the final 9/11 commission report. These interviews would presumably be of high profile and interest, widely disseminated, since they would conclusively prove that the commission report was fatally flawed, at least in this respect. I might even suspect that ABC, NBC, CBS, or even FOXNEWS has reports on such a blatant discrepancy.
“......Arup’s review of NIST’s findings and its own analysis led it to conclude that NIST has not satisfactorily demonstrated its main conclusion…..”
NIST lacking
I’ll see your pasty white BYU Mormon fundamentalist solar physicist professor and raise you one Arab structural engineering professor from of all places Berkley, CA.
<i>“Natalie, Professor Astaneh received a research grant from the National Science Foundation to go to New York and to Investigate the collapse of twin towers of the World Trade Center. This may have been because he was quite highly qualified and recognized in the
Rabbit is finished 911, you are beaten long since on the God Squad Thread, and you ran away therefrom to come and continue your crap and you are actually doing it again, you are going back over all the same stuff you have long since been finished on.
the pattern is the same, you were being overwhelmed by other posters, all making mince meat of you and so off you go, and pop up later, or in this case somewhere else.
It is a supreme deciever people, so BAD that the mere fact of her saying something makes it suspect.
This thread doesn’t need or deserve you, go and do it on God Squad where your defeat is in context. Obviously you have just finished a big Shill training course, and are all fired up. Everything you say goes against the truth, the FACTS speak for themselves and no amount of spin will win any support for the Official lie. Why is nobody joining the cause of the official lie? Because if nothing else about 911 stinks, and it all does, the FACT that the government is actively witholding the evidence which would prove the truth, the FACT that they have already destroyed much of that evidence, is enough top see them deemed GUILTY by any rational approach.
You would obviously be a complete lunatic idf it were not for the fact that you are a Government agent, a SHILL. You are assigned to this topic and just as with the Depleted Uranium you have to back it, and logic, truth, honour and humanity don’t come into it.
You are on the wrong thread, and anybody who doubts this Vampire is anything but what Rabbit says, go and look at the filthy beast spewing it’s venom over any who dissent.
Here is Natty on assignment for her beloved Weapon of Mass and Indiscriminate Destruction
Here she is starting on assignment two, watch the tactics of avoidance and character assassination. What is it about people expressing their honest opinions, based on relevant facts, which makes anyone a part of the demon anti Bush conspiracy for Natty?
Your post will be dealt with Vampire, but first it is time for Rabbit to remove the gloves, he is so utterly tired of your snivelling innuendos, character asainations and gross dishonesty. Rabbit has seen you metamorphose from a supposedly open minded innocent All Ameican Girl, to a heartless, cold and stubborn proponent of all the worst in the world. You are like the embodiment of Satan, and you are absolutely, beyond any doubt a Shill, whether or not you have opther duties for the Beast, is unknowable, but that you are married to the Great Whore of Babylon is long since obvious, and this is possibly why most ignore you, because you are really creepy, really quite a nasty aura about you to those who can discern these things.
Just communicating with you leaves one feeling a bit disgusted with oneself.
By the way, it is interesting that you don’t use windows, and Rabbit has a hunch he knows how that plays, a friend will confirm it. Maybe just a co-incidence? Not likely.
As for PDF files, they give Rabbit the shits, but in your case anything which starts asking for any sort of secure information from Rabbit’s computer is shut down material.
You know and I know what you are, and Rabbit is glad you have never denied it much, it would be so unbecoming, and besides, Shills always lose the argument about being a Shill, and you know that don’t you? All Shills know never to get into an argument about being a Shill, it can only end in defeat. Notice though that others who are called this, and it happens occasionally, always manage to answer the accusations easily. There must be something honest people know which you don’t I guess.
By the way the Naty’s sly innuendo about Rabbit and the PDF file, has to do with the fact that in the first war between she and Rabbit, she directed rabbit to a link which turned out to be a Government site which started doing much electron swapping and then sort of sneakily asked for a password to continue doing something it suggested I would be glad for. The Rabbit ran away fast. Ever since his computer was infected with more and worse hacking attacks.
The computer was sick and crashed a few times on the hackers obviously, but that left all the registry open and showed what they were up to.
Not knowing whether Natty was knowing about it, Rabbit was still suspicious, he was involved in no other issues at the time.
The fact that these two posts are personal attacks on Natty is due to the fact that Rabbit dislikes liars even more than idiots.
And although Rabbit started above, he will not further fill up this thread with this issue.You are ducking the fact that you have got hundreds of posts destroying your crap on another thread, and gratuitously moving it, here.
Considering how low you go in these things, you must be one hell of an interesting root.
Yes of course an Apple, you mentioned that before.
“Your post will be dealt with Vampire, but first it is time for Rabbit to remove the gloves, he is so utterly tired of your snivelling innuendos, character asainations and gross dishonesty. Rabbit has seen you metamorphose from a supposedly open minded innocent All Ameican Girl, to a heartless, cold and stubborn proponent of all the worst in the world. You are like the embodiment of Satan, and you are absolutely, beyond any doubt a Shill, whether or not you have opther duties for the Beast, is unknowable, but that you are married to the Great Whore of Babylon is long since obvious, and this is possibly why most ignore you, because you are really creepy, really quite a nasty aura about you to those who can discern these things.”
My goodness, all this vitriol for simply pointing out that the overwhelming concensus in the (real) scientific community is that the risk from exposure to depleted uranium is minimal, and for pointing out that the overwhelming concensus in the (real) Engineering and the (real) scientific community is that the collapse of the towers had everything to do with planes and fires, and nothing to do with deliberatly set explosives.
I take it that you don’t have any links to any video of the surviving hijackers.
I may be out on a limb here. Maybe there was a mistake and there is video of some “surviving” hijackers. But somehow I think that would have been huge news. Somehow I think I would have heard about it sometime in the last four years.
Rabbit, get a Mac. If you can’t access a pdf file for fear of a virus or a hacking, you’re missing out on tons of information. This is getting to be a predominant form of publishing information on the Web.
No Natty the Rabbit hasn’t even read your post, the vitriol is due to who and what you are. Rabbit knows that you are lying, dissembling, and that you have lost this issue on another thread. Having just said he will not continue this discussion since you have brought it away from the context of your so far complete anhiliation, this is blatant disghonesty and very rude and ignorant to the thread. You forget obviously that we have already dealt with the report you are now bringoing up and it didn’t help you then, which was before Jones report. Jones’ report incluses all the known facts, you professor didn’t help your thoery anyway and he didn’t have all the facts. You will get specifics from Rabbit about your wasted effort, when you stop meesing up this thread. Back to God Squad or Rabbit will re-post all the relevant stuff from their to here, just so you cannot pretend to be anybody except the braindead, foot shooting dissembling lying Shill.
There is plenty of evidence for the living “Alleged Hijackers” and it has been given already about two months ago when you first began ignoring that question, now you have waited for that to become old history and pages ago on another thread and hop over here to pretend you’ve never been chopped up already. There is furthermore no credible evidence that most of the hijackers were ever on board. They were not on the original flight lists.
As said the government is guilty, and most people now are waking up to this. The government could have stopped all speculation and accusations a long time ago, by releasing video and photgtraphs which have been confiscated by them, and kept from the public view all this time, despite numerous calls for them. Frankly Natalie, you are never going to win this when all eveidence available points to OUR conclusion, and nothing at all, has ever been given which made a strong case for the official theory. the official theory can be proven in one day, if the government chose, so why don’t they Natty? Why is it that sending out the “Rendon Group”, is the most the government is prepared to do? Propaganda, mostly involving smoke and mirrors what’s more, not even decent forgeries or planted stories much anymore.
Seems a bit odd if releasing a few minutes of PRIVATELY OWNED video footage would prove the Government story once and for all.
Natty we do know GUILT when it is that obvious.
Now Rabbit will continue to make a fool of you on the God Squad thread, unless anybody else specifically says they don’t mind you polluting this thread now. In which case Rabbit will of course have to transfer all your previous humiliation over here first. You are one sneaky beast, but like all Shills totally without shame.
As for the PDF file you have posted above, Rabbit can normally read such but your last one is not running for Rabbit. This computer is not all loaded up with programs yet, since your Pentagom friends have raped his old computer, and don’t fdeny it, Rabbit has had some confirmation of the hacking and if there is one thing that can be read out of it, my technician says that it is the most complete and thorough job he has ever seen attempted. Attempted because the old box crashed on them repeatedly.
Rabbit repeats the vitriol is what you have earned for your blatant dishonesty, nothing else. If you had not played so many tricks of avoidance and dissembling and twisting, but had instead approached the topic with honour, you would not be so disgusting, and Rabbit could easily remain polite but of course you would have lost this argument long ago, because the only way you can continue to carry on is the ignore everything except small deatils and NEVER put the all the known facts into the one context, because they collectively remove the official lie from the realms even, of possibility.
If rabb9it chose to ignore your Expert opinion posted above, what would be the big deal? You have ignored far more of Rabbit’s posts, whenever they contain some particularly telling point or expert opinion, you either stick to character assasination, or ignore it.
So far Rabbit has done neither, the difference to you is that rabbit will not answer until he has looked carefully at things. You just stick to the official line so you always have an off the cuff answer, character attack., That the Rendon Speciality is it?
As for Mac, we all know why you are using that.
Oh and Natalie, the greatest liar on this site. The thread of Radioactive Wounds of War, is long, it is substantial and it absolutely showed that the bulk of the scientific community “KNOWS” that Depleted Uranium is dangerous, the meduical history the scientific history and more and more information which is coming out all make the case completely. The fact that you are so in love with the stuff, is the best proof in the world that you are employed to spread these lies. You would have been running around spruiking for the gas chamber in 1942, that’s obvious.
Natty the thread stands and if anybody wants to see just how big a liar and vicious a mass murdering bitch this is, go and see her whoring her soul for Radioactive Nuclear Waste to be vaporised over civiliands and US Troops alike.
Depleted Uranium is not only an issue you and the Pentagon Shill LtC Roger Helbig lost, utterly, it is also the issue in which he and you were outed as professional Shills, and Rabbit swears this is the truth, for any who would doubt.
By the way Rabbit still thinks you might be Natalie Helbig, you almost convinced him you were not, but something just came up.
Oh and Natty
You don’t seem to be doing very well, your side seems to be losing. If nobody believes the government out of hand, how the hell do you expect to spin a failing story with so many holes in it, and a massively growing base of support from not only politicians and world leaders, but also from experts and proffessional in many fields and normal people who are waking up to the lies.
Down Down Deeper and down.
Dpleted Uranium use is also a WAR Crime, except that the USA specifically got an exemption for such war crimes at the start of the Iraq conflict. problem is, now that the proof is in that the War was started on the basis of deliberate lies, that exemption will be illegal too. Eventually your employers are going to be facing the most substantial criminal charges in history. Rabbit predicts that the Tribunals which will eventually examine the gross human rights abuses of the US Junta, will conclude that the USA has been the most horrible perpetrator of evil, genocide, torture, murder and looting. It will be thanks to people like you it went on as long as it still is.
Your lies are even more obvious when you claim to be so sure that explosives did not bring down the WTC’s, and for your daft information, WTC 7 is almost universally accepted as having been a demolition, The owner admitted it.
the thing is Natalie, no one can deny that the buildings appeared to come down via demolition, this is the only way buildings have fallen in this way. That is a FACT and you cannot deny it, without lying outright. Even if a few, experts seem able to convince themselves that such a thing was possible, that still only says it’s possible. As said nobody can deny they looked like demos and nothing like a gravity collapse. Thus you cannot possibly KNOW that explosives didn’t bring them down. You just can’t and the fact that you say so specifically that you can, has got to be the proof that you are lying, you don’t know that explosives didn’t do it, there is Witness evidence, which is where you ran out on the last thread as I recall. There are lots of witness to explosions, including police, firemen, a Janitor and a further twenty something witnesses. In every way thsoe buildings conformed to controlled demolition, that is the bottom line. If by some small, very debatable, mostly not believed, chance those buildings could have come down in the way you describe, then that is all it is, a chance. It does not account for the witnesses, the expert opinion, like Jones and Reynolds or for the statement about “Pulling” the WTC 7 made by the fraudster Silverstein. It does not account for the molten steel, days later, and it doesn’t account for the pulverisation of the concrete, a minor detail to be sure.
The only evidence which would have proven for sure that explosives did it, was removed from the site VERY FAST and disposed of in record time to China. Odd that. It is also known as perverting the course of justice. Disposing of evidence form a crime scene seems to be a common practice with your Junta doesn;t it? Why do you think that is Natty? Whe nobody believe them anymore, don’t your think they should be doing all they can to prove the truth? If the truth is what they say?
The point is Natty, that most reasonable people are left to conclude that the Government is trying to hide something.
When all available evidence points away from their story, it is only the completely Brainwashed and of course Liars who would try and say “There is no way that pre-positioned explosives were involved” The fact is it is obvious there is every way, but very little way that fire and a plane brought down the Twin Towers and a mere fire brought down WTC-7 even more quickly.
You are clearly only here to push the official line, and truth is absolutely something you think you can create out of thin air.
Where are all your customers?
64% of Americans probably don’t believe yet that the Junta did 911, but 64% of them now know the Bush Junta lies at every chance. Many of them know the truth about 911, and it is only a matter of time before the rest of the 64% do to. Our ranks are growing and yours are shrinking, so it is only a matter of time Natty.
Yes Rabbit knows he is wacking the Shill on this thread after all, but no-one seems to be using it, and Rabbit did not ask the Vampire to come here, she flew in after running away from defeat on the other thread.
more…...............
<a href=“http://www.911proof.com/”>All sources linked<a>
It just occurred to Rabbit that the Troll Jay finally bit the hay.
Rabbit posted the following immediately before he pulled anchor and sailed away.
<blockquote>By The Way, Jay. The Professor Jones report is the end of the planes and fuel did it case, which is why the government Shill, Natalie, gave up when that came out.
You are the most craven lying little worm Rabbit has ever met. Rabbit is preparing a special Jay post. In this we will be quoting some of Jay
What does surprise Rabbit is that you saw the issue, and possibly your name, when after all you have only ever gone to other threads on this site, when one of your ssigned issues is mentioned. That has been few and far between, but just as with Depleted Uranium on the Unnatural Disaster thread, where you magically appeared after being exclusively on the Radioactive Wounds of War Thread. The connection being your assigned issue. That time Rabbit baited the thread in a deliberate effort to get you and Roger to prove your complicity, which you did handsomely. This time it is just a random occurence, but it suggests that someone is reading all these threads, sifting through them, watching for the “Issues” which the company is assigned to protect.
So how is Mr Rendon Natty?
On the Hijackers, the first thing you can forget is trying to chase red herrings. It is you who is demanding video footage as proof that the men are alive, it is not necessary and as said, the fact that the governmnet won’t release most of the footage to show they have not simply added those ID’s after the fact, which is by the way what most of us believe.
They have used these peoples names and made claims based on the fact they were pilots and other supposedly incriminating evidence and yet they were not involved. Places of birth, birthdays and other personal details were displayed on news throughout the world
Sorry Natty if it was a case of mistaken or false identity they could have claimed that early on but it is too late.
Read on to discover what the FBI told the public and what came to light…
Abdulaziz Al-Omari Number 1
Al-Omari lives with his wife and four children in Saudi Arabia. Mr. Al-Omari, a pilot with Saudi Airlines,
walked into the US embassy in Jeddah to demand why he was being reported as a dead hijacker in the
American media. BBC 23rd September 2001
a) “A pilot with Saudi Airlines, was astonished to find himself accused of hijacking as well as being dead
and has visited the US consulate in Jeddah to demand an explanation.” Independent 17th September 2001
b) “Al-Omari may have lived in Hollywood, Fla. and is reported to have lived with his wife and four school-age children
in a rented house in Vero Beach, Fla., moving out on Sept. 3, telling his landlord he was returning home.” WRONG!
CBS, 9/27/01
Natty just because something is not reported in the controlled American Media, doesn’t mean it isn’t news, it generally just means it is not good news for the Fraudulent American Corporate Criminal Junta.
MORE details
Now we do know that there has been a couple of feeble attempts to spin this to mean that the ID’s were stolen and used by Bin Laden’s people. There is a very good reason why these do not ever go far, and it is you professional Liars who will not touch that excuse, and this is in itself a puzzle. Why wouldn’t the Liars say that the ID’s were simply being used by others? That would kill this issue dead in the grass. Why would that be?
Simple. The whole case of it being hijackers rests on the details of flight training and, living arrangements etc of these men, and the living men have confirmed these details to be true at least, if the ID’s were stolen, then none of the case they have created for the nineteen alleged hijackers stands up. It has then got NOTHING, not even a passport to suggest any middle eastern hijackers, except of course all the information which it appears they had beforehand but ignored, which is leaking out on a daily basis almost.
That has the baggage of proving the Government foreknowledge. Not a good scene here Natty, not really looking good for your very strange and miraculous theories.
The weight of evidence, of history and credibility (Witholding evidence) is decidedly against your cause surviving much longer.
Down Down deeper and down.
Here it was all along on 911 Research when Rabbit first asked you how you accounted for this months ago.
This one is even more intesresting The fact that they have cobbled together some ID’s out of two separate individuals is really fascinating. Especially when BOTH are alive and well.
Have a look at this link people it really does make the whole ID thing one very good likeness of a smoking gun, in as much as an FBI frame-up goes.
Sory to interrupt ... just heard this on an advertisement for some (adult political) cartoon on television :
Jesus was black.
Ronald Raygun was the devil.
The government is lying about 9/11.
Will try to bring more details if I see/hear it again.
... my spin on it ... another piece of propaganda pie, sliced and served, to chew on and spit out.
It will be interesting to see how mainstream 9/11 lies become.
Serious question :
Is addressing it and laughing at it by way of a cartoon, with the associated lines quoted above, helping or hurting?
Yes, David, it is interesting to wonder what the effect would be, should the deliberate implosion theory become truly mainstream. So far as I ‘m aware, Prof. Jones is the first proponent of such to appear anywhere in the mainstream news, even landing an interview on a low rated cable news network. (MSNBC)
However, his first appearance was his last. For reasons unknown, Jones has sequestered himself from further interviews.
I’m not sure if anyone knows exactly who is going to publish his paper, and whether it HAS been peer-reviewed, is GOING to be peer-reviewed, and what exactly constitutes peer review for the purpose of this particular publication.
Anyway, on one hand I would be thrilled to see this issue come out in the open and see how it fares. But the risk from my POV is that a substantial number of people will believe almost anything. (We remember the polls on Saddam and 9/11, a majority thought Saddam was involved)
A huge number of people believe in such things as crop circles, alien abductions, etc., because examples of complicated mosaics in fields are shown, and lots of people testify believably about being abducted. But recently, there was a balanced presentation on TV that exposed the tricks of crop circle pranksters, the camera trick manufacture of video “evidence” of white flashes appearing to create one, and explanations for why lots of people think they’ve been abducted, but actually it’s only the result of sleep paralysis and dreaming. This even changed the dissapointed mind of my seven year old son, who’s pretty stubborn about his beliefs.
So I guess it comes down to how the issues surrounding 9/11 are presented. If it’s done in a balanced way, I think believers in bombs and plots will wish it had never made it out in the light. They will be publicly humiliated, whereas now scarcely anybody is even aware that such theories exist. The first time I was aware of such theories was shortly after finding out that the chief pushers of the DU scare story also actually believed a missile had hit the Pentagon, instead of a plane. I don’t think even Rabbit believes that anymore, at least not until Barbara Olson appears on TV intact.
Natalie Rabbit is now going to take you apart once and for all, your lies are tiresome, your avoidance and pretence is pathetic and not even amusing anymore. You have not made even a shread of a case for anything, except that you are so determinde to maintain a LIE against all evidence and logic. I cannot pretend that you are merely deluded, becaus eth level of avoidance is legend, you have avoided any serious discussion about the most damning facts preferring to ebgage in character assasination of people you are not fit to clean the shoes of. people who have shown courage more than great intelligence, because it does not take any great intelligence to understand the enormity of the evidence which renders the official lie totally unbelievable. You have already exposed your craven support for all things government, because it would seem that you are employed to do so, the games on the DU thread were the proof, deary because as it was being pointed out to you then, and nothing has ever given reason to doubt this since, nobody, absolutely nobody actually believes that Depleted Uranium Weapons are not hideous, and deadly. The next crop of birth deformities are now beggining to be reported and the world community outside America, is now looking more and more at the issue, we have had a couple of TV programs on it over here, and believe me a lot of Australians are waking up fast. These days about every second person Rabbit speaks to is already educated and they are not happy. The Site Trolls would not even touch the issue. There was only ever two SHILLS, outed in the first page or two, named even, who supported it for more than a token couple who also turned out to be connected to the liars, and ran away when it was obvious. Everyone else, dozens and dozens of them, went from shock that anyone could defend the stuff, to outrage that anyone would especially with all the truth on that thread to see. you can’t revise the history Natty, the thread is there and it is being recommended about the internet as a very comprehensive coverage of the issue together with a direct observation of the Pentagon Shills pushing the official line. You presneted all you had, you gave it up a dpzen times, over and over you repeated it, and it was demolished. In every way imaginable by experts, by soldiers by all sorts of people, the official line you spun, was found wanting, it was washed up, lady and so were you. Furthermore you were humiliated and had your proverbial nose shoved up your own bunghole so many times that you came out looking like a broken wheel.
You even regularly danced like a monkey when Rabbit laid obvious traps for you, or led you around by the nasty nose.
Thus you were gotten from the DU thread, to the God Squad thread where Rabbit wanted a better foil for posting 911 information, since Jay was being useless, just a really cowardly Troll, who gave up on this issue to, why do you think he ran away Natty? Just the scary Rabbit? Maybe he had found an issue which was so big, so glaringly obvious there was nothing even a skungy Troll could do to avoid accepting the truth. You know something Natty, Rabbit has seen many people accept the truth and they don’t suddenly change, have a moment of epiphany and report the fact. What happens Natty is that they go all limp, and fade away.
They may well return, under a new handle and so radically different you would never know it, though Rabbit has seen one he thinks, one who both he and a friend think may have been a really stupid God Bothering and self loving troll somewhere but who got crushed, then popped up here, under another name, and much more sensible, not much God either.
How many people has Natty seen “get well”, change their ideas to see the truth you think you espouse? Any converts lately? If you say so, everyone, will know you are lying, so don’t do it. If everyone knows you are a liar, and also knows the truth, they have shown it, then why would yoiu persist in lying, unless you possess a craven soul. A sick massochistic sort of thing it is.
There is nothing you can show us which we have not seen. many of us have read the offiical reports, and it is easy to find, I have posted, well referenced refutations of the reports and each and every “Expert” you have produced which so far amounts to about three, and they are all old cases, using false information as has also been shown.
There is still no way you or anyone can refute all the Witness evidence, a good deal of which has been outlined for about the sixth time and you have as usual nothing substantial to say.
Your theory for theory is all it is, remains challenged by the following:
—Up to eight of the “alleged hijackers”, are alive and well.
—The buildings fell in a manner consistent with controlled demolitions in “every respect”.
—The above fact has been acknowledged by numerous experts and anybody with a bit of demolition experience. Professional Pyrotechnicians, which includes Rabbit, also recognised certain pyrotechnic effects which were not naturally occurring, ie: they were special effects. Or at least they were not just a couple of plane of jet fuel igniting upon crashing into the buildings.
—The collapse of the WTC 7 cannot be explained without explosives, and the owner slipped up early on by stating that the building was “Pulled”, demolished.
—No planes crashing into a building or fires alone have caused such a collapse, or indeed any major collapse in history, these fires were despite occasioanl attempts to say otherwise, obviously of short duration, and relatively cold f by building fire standards.
—There are “numerous” witness reports, from police, firemen, building staff, a priest, members of the public and contractors, to the FACT that there were a serious of explosions preceding the collapse, experienced firefighters stated they were excatly the same as with building demolitions. Further more there are more than twenty witnesses to the fact that there was an explosion in the basement of at least on WTC…........ BEFORE…...The plane hit, and one of them was burned horribly by it and evacuated before the plane hit.
—There were molten pools of STEEL below ground days after the collapse, not only could fire and collapse not have done this, the only explosive which could probably do it, short of a micro-nuke is Thermite.
—The government removed ALL the structural evdence and had it destroyed overseas. The FBI has confiscated all photo and video evidence and is refusing to allow anyone to see it, including the “SO CALLED” investigations it trots out once in a while. This is considered PROOF of complicity in a court of law.
—Something very funny was going on with a bunch of Israeli Spies who were dancing around a video camera which was set up on a tripod and had captured the whole attack sequence, from the first plane to the collapses. They also had explosive residues in their vehicle. They were released quickly and quietly back to Israel.
—More and more evidence is being uncovered and more and more experts are finally breaking their silence, a silence not surpriing given the enormous ramifications of these findings. It is obvious to anyone, and it has happened to many, that to stand up and speak out, will be a destructive career move, at least and more than likely will see the person persecuted even to the extent of being killed. Obviously the Governmnet has to be involved since the buildings were demolished, even most lay persons realise that demolishing a building like that is very complex and a lot of work not done in a few hours. If they can so callously kill three thousand of their own, shit a lot of these turkeys were slick street, then what chance does a single person have who might challenge that monster?
These above things are FACTS. They are not opinions. they are the basis upon which one might form a theory, an opinion if you will. You can only be seen as a prevaricator or Liar if you try and challenge the facts, you’ve tried to challenge the theories by putting up some half assed report by someone, which is peripheral, discludes vital information in its theses and is invariably not doing more than concluding an outside possibility of the official story, none of them can detract from the fact that this is the first time any such event has occurred and probability is trillions to one against it happening twice on the same day, but to happen a third time is just getting….well….Those monkeys will produce a copy of Hamlet and a whole telelision series, before that is likely to happen. That is why it needs some some of report to explain how it happened and never was any such report less forthcoming. There is not a rising tide of acceptance of the official story, the tide is going the other way, your margin is shrinking daily as has been pointed out.
You ignore the simple FACTS, from which anybody can derive the same conclusion as a professor, you challenge instead the character of people whose shoes you are probably not fit to clean. You would not know, but rather than look at the facts and how they relate you would attck someone and at least smear them with dirty innuendos if you have nothing else. Your absences from the threads everytime you are in a bind, are obvious, and always end with you popping up, again and maybe taking over from some much earlier point you had perhaps avoided once but now see as preferable to the one you ran away from.
I’m calling you a shill and you are behaving exactly like one and I am once again calling you a shill. Rabbit just has a feeling you are not as stupid as you seem, therefore you know the truth, about this and DU. Even if by association, why would they have you shilling for these things if they were not lies? This makes you a very nasty person in my view. Even if you have to do it to feed your child or support your old man or something. Do you think they will spare you? You know how they did it, just because you helped, they have no loyalty to you, you are a patsy, the human shield, and they’ll trash you just for a diversion while they get some money moved around.
The truth needs nothing except exposure. There are no shills for the 911 truth movement. There are no shills for the Anti-DU movement. All the reactionary movements which grow out of truths that become big enough to attract enough attention, all these movements rely only on two things. the truth, and spreading it. The people do the rest. All we get out of spreading the truth, is a bigger band of recruiters and empowered people.
With LIES, as Bush himself recently pointed out, you have to keep on repeating them. Over and over for the LIES to sink in.
Truth needs only to be heard once. Of course it can be said many times without someone hears it, but one day, the words go in and the mind turns over and the truth is seen, it is gradual, and then finally a point of balance is reached after which the progress is rapid. With eys open more and more light comes in and one adjusts ones eyes to the light again.
About this point those newly awakened souls become missionaries among their peers, for a while. Inevitably they are forced to re-evaluate some of their aqaintances as the true depth of others delusion becomes apparent, typically though they evolve along with friends and family, it is quicker than religion Natty, religion is just an idea. Truth, logic, reason, these things are actually much more appealing than faith.
You should try it sometime, in the meantime, you are just making a fool of yourself. Call me a fool but do you notice anybody worth a pinch of shit laughing at Rabbit?
David I think that making a cartoon about it, or hearing about it in jokes etc, is trivialising it. For too many people they are so brainwashed that even when the truth becomes totally manistream, (By the way Natty, Jones is not the first Manistream report you have been shown about ten more MSM reports about various experts and even the Ex German Defence Minister,...how many lies can she tell till she knows…..that too many lies have been told..),
.............even when the truth becomes mainstream, the sheeple will not form any conclusions about it other than what they ar told to conclude.
IE: It was necessary from some viewpoint above ours and we can basically accept it, the victims would have been proud to be sacrificed in the cause of Freedom and Security.
Their sacrifice was to save millions of us from dying instead.
Maybe, the government had uncovered secret documents and a video proving that Osama Bin Laden was really planning a much more horrific attack, using Nuclear weapons supplied by Iraq and Iran. While based in his cave in Afghanstan of course. So the Americans devised a clever plan to pre-empt the attack by demolishing a couple of recently overinsured buildings, and a building full of nothing except lots of old Government records. This allowed the master plan to go into effect and they could attack all three Terrorist Nations.
Now the program will return to pictures of Depleted Uranium Deformed Muslim babies for our viewers enjoyment. See these babies and know that you are safe from them ever growing up to become terrorists…...........America…........America ............. AMERICA the BRAVE….....................
<b>Some of them will buy it Nat, and you will be the one to sell it I’m sure.<b>
Have they promised not to send your child to war? or have they promised he won’t have to use depleted Uranium Weapons when they do? Have they promised you anything except a job? Maybe he’ll get health cover to be screened for Depleted Uranium poisoning at least. Or maybe you believe it is all you say? If so, Natty Rabbit sincerely wishes this opportunity shall arise for your sun, he does a little rabbit dance of magic when saying tha, and if Rabbit is perchance more righteous than thou, Frau, it shall be, trust me.
So many things you don’t believe in.
Guess how many of those things are changed by your beliefs?
NONE
They are like all things waiting to be found, or ignored, by people who would rather imagine something instead.
Ignoring the rock in the middle of the path will not stop it tripping you.
Pretending the stone is bread, will not get your children fed.
Living a lie is bound to bring anyone down, finally.
This is the fate of the USA. Living a lie too long, they are now about to find out they are wrong.
The change will not be easy, your masters won’t go quietly, but imagine the rage when you are finally run to ground.
Excellent summary Rabbit.
Don’t forget the insider trading and put options on airline stocks just before 9/11.
David I think that making a cartoon about it, or hearing about it in jokes etc, is trivialising it. For too many people they are so brainwashed that even when the truth becomes totally mainstream, the sheeple will not form any conclusions about it other than what they are told to conclude.
Yeah, propaganda pie, looks yummy but leaves a bad taste in your mouth. Some people don’t realize they are eating shit. They swallow it down , tell us it tastes just fine and show us a big shit eating grin.
Spit it out sheeple.
Natty in honour of you, Rabbit has begun a project, it will be aimed specifically at the things you have helped identify as weak stones under the temple of Babylon. You have by your own acts shown what is your worst fears. These qare the things Rabbit will be using you for. You will be used, as your wrods are imortalised. they will be placed under a maginfying glass, and you as well as your tactics also, will be seen as part of the exercise. Don’t worry everything you said will be included, you are one of the star attractions. It is only a beggining but it is another and there are many more people doing things and spreading the word.
If your case was well made, then you should be glad, because imagine how all those new people being able to hear your words, especially when most of the rubbish is cut away, leaving what you are actually saying much more clear without all the guf and interruptions., imagine how enlightened they will become from seeing it all so clearly.
Oh Goody goody, don’t you think?
Anyway on behalf of the Hunters and Collectors Society, of MSTSM, Rabbit thnks you for your contributions so far, and we promise you will be given a very prominent display in the Museum, of Shills, Trolls and Special Morons.
You will be famous, along with your extra special efforts for Depleted Uranium Propaganda and defending the biggest LIE of the century.
Alongside of Daddy Helbig of course. Say hello from Rabbit. Give his regards to Mr Rendon if you see him too.
Another small observation of a Natty lie. Rabbit never did say he believed in the Missile hitting the Pentagon, but there is no proof that one didn’t since the government has withheld the videos as said. There is credible evidence for this and several other possibilities, but that doesn’t mean Rabbit has formed a firm opinion. As for Barabar Olsen, that whole issue was to rabbit’s credit, because he heard about it, checked it and reported the facts as they were known, without any dissembling or ever once comitting himself to things he could not know, unlike Natty who “knows” that fire alone can do what has formerly always involved much preparation, experts and EXPLOSIVES. Now considering the facts, the contradictory witness reports and all the expert evidence which is growing, it is an incredible act of faith for you to pretend there is anything except egg on your face.
Dave and Rabbit love Parables eh?
they are so much more eloquent and precise than mere reporting. The sheeple are as always impervious to anything but the program.
But one program is older still,
Lets the truth be heard through lies and the swill
The art belongs solely to the Bard and Poet
When time calls these gentle souls come to know it
The truth is not changed, just re-arranged into forms
Which even the blind braindead Sheeple can percieve.
You’ve raised a lot of dust here recently Rabbit, since I responded to your assertion about the “surviving hijackers”. Is it perhaps to obscure the fact that you indeed aren’t able to link me to any videos of these men, enabling us to compare them to the photos in the commission report?
If I was wrongly accused of murdering 2000 or so people and destroying billions worth of property, I think I would seek out the nearest reporter with a camera to clear my name. I think that reporter would be extremely interested in a blockbuster story such as this, and would be more than cooperative.
Speaking of dust, are you aware of how much drywall and other lightweight “pulverizeable” materials were in those towers? The notion that all the concrete turned to powder is I’m quite sure a result of ignoring the fact that there was probably at least as much volume of these materials present as there was cement, which also was a lightweight variety, and in thin layers.
Are you aware of how much energy was generated by the fall of those blocks of upper stories and the subsequent fall of the lower floors? There was plenty of energy to account for virtually all of the strange happenings that are on one level understandably confused with being the result of exposives. And you know what? Strange things HAPPEN in extraoridinary events such as this. Strange and seemingly unexplainable things happen in tornados and hurricanes. They happen in car wrecks. But they happen.
So we’re back to Ms. Helbig now, are we? You’ve demonstrated that you’ll believe virtually anything if it serves to reinforce your mistaken and warped view of America and what motivates it.
We’re still waiting for the name of that STRUCTURAL engineer that supports your theories. It strikes me as strange from a common sense POV, that none of the people that were responsible for building and designing the towers have found anything particularly strange about how they collapsed.
Oh geez, watch him come up with a name now. I should know better than to issue such challenges.
Natalie, lying Natalie, Rabbit has answered you, you have had more than enough reports and photo’s, they are credible media reports all of them they are all there to be read, nobody including the FBI is trying to say these men are not alive. You are the one saying a Video tape is the only proof, and while there are reports of such for some, I am not interested in bothering hunting it down. The media reports refer to credited journalists saying they have interviewed the men, and they are satisfied it is them. Actually the last thing they want is to be killed by your nasty people, which is why they are all keeping low since.
The engineers and many other people have been mentioned, you’ve never mentioned Von Bulow, why not Natty? You are the one setting the target of structural engineers or viedos of people, which you and I know would prove nothing any differnetly and then you will just say that. Give it a rest, just because you are an idiot…......How would you know how non-idiots think I guess?
You don’t get to set the standards of proof here girly. You have shown a complete lack of ethics, of honesty of compassion or of reasoning skills, do you seriously expect to call the shots?
The case for the demolition of the buildings is beyond reproach, and you saying otherwise doesn’t make it otherwise, it just makes you deluded or dishonest.
The case for the Government foreknowledge is also made and that is why so many people are coming to accept this. You saying this isn’t so, and repeatedly ignoring and repeating the lie, doesn’t make it true or any more believable. In fact the more you avoid, the more you maintain a theory which has never had more than very questionable and fast dropping support, the more unconvincing you become.
The info is there, nobody but you is pretending otherwise, and you can’t be convinced…. because you are a SHILL. So don’t carry on like an idiot anymore. Nobody is listening, Rabbit is just idly wacking you now, for fun, the issue is covered, long used up and so are you.
Do you have any more tricks, Vampire? What about Torture?
Now that Torture is official policy, not just the thing we do when nobody is looking, how does Natty feel about it? Is Natty glad that the Bush Junta thinks it a good idea to torture the people as well as poison them and their home? Of course you do. Good SHILL!
You have lost and Rabbit never expects you to admit it, but the thread stands as proof once again.
As for who ignores or does not ignore anything…..CLOWN.
Rabbit ignores nothing of consequence, you mention nothing of consequence. Deal with the FACTS stop arguing an untenable theory against FACTS. For all your paltry attempts to tear at the fabric of truth, to cover and decieve, you have never addressed the facts, which EXCLUDE your theory altogether and WE know it. Instead you ignore them and make a pitiful and transparent attack on the characters, the qualifications, the honesty everything but the FACTS which are so damning. You do not need to be convinced, you’re a shill. You have behaved like a good Patsy for Rabbit now bugger off you stupid broad, you haven’t won any supporters, even the Trolls have abandoned you.
Rabbit loathes you and knows everything you say is a Lie or intended to support a LIE. You are not a mother either, good try, no mother could do the things you do. This is not the issue, any braindead turkey could carry on about 911, but nobody except someone paid to do it, is saying Depleted Uranium isn’t Satan’s Tool.
Suck eggs, Vampire.
Last but not least, the things Natty is now raising have been dealt with despite her denials, a reading of the God Squad Thread, will show this, if anybody cares.
All the proof that Natty is Batty.
Yes Natalie, I am, it was able to be estimated precisely, that is what physicists and engineers do. unless of course they are employed by the US government to report, in which case they selectively take facts, set up theoretical models to test the results of what they are trying to prove happened, and tweak things until they get the results sought.
Rabbit has read the official reports and seen the rubbish, they ignore so much and obviously began with a conclusion. It has been covered elsewhere. They did not of course take the actual energy into account, they just say generically that the energy could have done it. That isn’t science, that is politics.
Professor Jones deals with all that in his report, and it is short and concise, go and read some science yourself and stop asking dumb questions as if they are rhetorical. if you don’t know the answers, don’t assume everybody is equally dumb.
Funny you should talk about some alleged hijacker wanting to clear his name, Rabbit has repeatedly asked why would the government not release a few unclassified video tapes, which would clear it’s name in an instant?
You liars are all the same, you actually think you can look innocent while hiding something behind your back, which we saw you put there.
Whatever strange things happen in accidents, like the collapsing of scyscrapers from short lived and cool fire alone, there is a thing in science called probability.
Now Natty, if the probability of such an accident happening for the first time, is 100:1, that would be conservative, actually it is probably 1000:1 or more, but then the probability of it happening twice in a row, is not merely once in 200, sweety, it becomes 10,000:1, against. Can Natty guess what the probability of it happening three times in a row is?
Rabbit is not a Gambler, but from the look if it, Natty had better not be.
First Skscraper in history to fall into it’s own footprint in a perfect demolition pattern, without the aid of pre-placed explosives. Chance against it happening conservatively estimated at 100:1 against.
Twice in a row 10,000:1 against.
Three times in a row, 1,000,000:1 against.
Chance that government is telling the truth about 911, is thus, 1,000,000:1 against, at a conservative estimate.
Seems pretty clear to Rabbit who are the lunatics.
Trusting a Government on faith, (because it is witholding all evidence), and against such odds as those conservative estimates.
That is lunatic behaviour anywhere they know how to wipe their own arses.
Time is on our side, time can only undo the lie, it will never be kind to the liar when first the lie is known.
It is known, Rabbit tells you it is known.. He is not saying what he believes, he knows what is not, and by process of elimination he knows then what is.
911 was planned, executed and carried out by high authority from with the US government and intelligence apparatus. Rabbit has no doubt that the culprits are far beyond the relatively petty power of the office of the POTUS. He could not concieve of even this fucked up plan, and he is only a co-driver anyway. He is in the drivers seat but is strictly forbidden to touch any of the buttons or controls. He is like Maggie in the Car with Marge at the start of the Simpsons. Beep Beep.
Cheney is his Marge but even he is a piece not a player.
The most high of the guilty are probably known but vaguely by name and we may not normally associate them with world events. There are nonetheless many lower levels of culpability, and these are giving way and will continue to collapse over time, and like all truths they will out, in time.
—Up to eight of the “alleged hijackers”, are alive and well.
And no video of any of them. How convenient. How ridiculous. Not even Judge Jones mentions this nonsense.
—The buildings fell in a manner consistent with controlled demolitions in “every respect”.
Every event is perfectly explainable and has been by people actually qualified to do so. The same kind of people that were responsible for designing and building the towers, no job for small minds, that. Do you think that Judge Jones would be capable of specifying the structural specifications necessary for keeping near quarter mile high buildings standing and operating? What makes you think that he is qualified to determine the method of their demise? Much less yourself or some theology professor. Crickey!
So much for all Jones’s colleagues agreeing with him:
Brigham Young University has a policy of academic freedom that supports the pursuit and dissemination of knowledge and ideas. Through the academic process, ideas should be advanced, challenged, and debated by peer-review in credible venues. We believe in the integrity of the academic review process and that, when it is followed properly, peer-review is valuable for evaluating the validity of ideas and conclusions.
The University is aware that Professor Steven Jones’s hypotheses and interpretations of evidence regarding the collapse of World Trade Center buildings are being questioned by a number of scholars and practitioners, including many of BYU’s own faculty members. Professor Jones’s department and college administrators are not convinced that his analyses and hypotheses have been submitted to relevant scientific venues that would ensure rigorous technical peer review. The structural engineering faculty in the Fulton College of Engineering and Technology do not support the hypotheses of Professor Jones.
Peer-less
—The above fact has been acknowledged by numerous experts and anybody with a bit of demolition experience. Professional Pyrotechnicians, which includes Rabbit, also recognised certain pyrotechnic effects which were not naturally occurring, ie: they were special effects. Or at least they were not just a couple of plane of jet fuel igniting upon crashing into the buildings.
This is a new one. Can you produce the testimony of a certified demolition professional that endorses your theory, much less a structural engineer? How many buildings have you demolished by explosives, Rabbit? Surely you have pictures. Blowing up models with firecrackers doesn’t count.
—The collapse of the WTC 7 cannot be explained without explosives, and the owner slipped up early on by stating that the building was “Pulled”, demolished.
Right. I’m sure that’s what he meant. He couldn’t posssibly have meant that it’s time to pull the team out because collapse is inevitable. There is documented accounts from NYFD team leaders experienced in determining when it’s time to get out of a building urging just that. There was a substantial bulge in the building that signaled inevitable structural failure. There was major structual damage to the building caused by the collapse of the the big tower. But no, it had to be because of explosives. There’s just no other explanation.
cont…..
pg. 2
—No planes crashing into a building or fires alone have caused such a collapse, or indeed any major collapse in history, these fires were despite occasioanl attempts to say otherwise, obviously of short duration, and relatively cold f by building fire standards.
Well I might mention just in passing that at least from my memory, no near quarter mile tall skyscrapers of the unique and “innovative” design of the WTC towers have been hit deliberately by large jet liners full of fuel, had several structual members severed or badly damaged and had God knows how intense of fires distorting lightweight trusses and newly naked steel columns. Nobody knows exactly how hot the fires were, but hundreds of experts in steel contruction and design have explained that collapse was perfectly understandable even if the fires were not all that hot. And BTW, the portion of the Madrid tower (you brought it up) that had unprotected steel did indeed collapse.
—There are “numerous” witness reports, from police, firemen, building staff, a priest, members of the public and contractors, to the FACT that there were a serious of explosions preceding the collapse, experienced firefighters stated they were excatly the same as with building demolitions. Further more there are more than twenty witnesses to the fact that there was an explosion in the basement of at least on WTC…........ BEFORE…...The plane hit, and one of them was burned horribly by it and evacuated before the plane hit.
Now this is simply unbelievable. Do you honestly think, as is the case with the supposedly “surviving” hijackers, if this was indeed the case, that this remarkable story would never have been told? Explosions BEFORE the planes hit? All these people ignored by trust me, Bush hating reporters, ever eager for a new angle and a big story? Give me a break. You really don’t understand American media if you think that they would hesitate to embrace claims such as this that would do great damage to their almost universal nemisis, GWB, unless of course presenting them would leave both they and the “witnesses” looking equally foolish. There is hope, though. Dan Rather’s memos fooled them.
—There were molten pools of STEEL below ground days after the collapse, not only could fire and collapse not have done this, the only explosive which could probably do it, short of a micro-nuke is Thermite.
Thermite is not an explosive, so that conflicts with your “many explosions heard” argument, does it not? No doubt you’ll say there were both. Judge Jones doesn’t think it was molten STEEL, btw. Don’t blaspheme your new God.
“In particular, photos and analyses of the molten metal (probably not molten steel) observed in the basements of both Towers and WTC7 need to be brought forth to the international community of scientists and engineers immediately.” ...Steven E. Jones “peer reviewed” report.
cont…...
pg. 3
—The government removed ALL the structural evdence and had it destroyed overseas. The FBI has confiscated all photo and video evidence and is refusing to allow anyone to see it, including the “SO CALLED” investigations it trots out once in a while. This is considered PROOF of complicity in a court of law.
Clearly erroneous. If you had been able or willing to view the Berkley Arab steel structure expert’s report, you would have learned that he had access to plenty of structural evidence. It is obvious from the NIST report that plenty of steel was preserved for study:
“The Structural Engineers Association of New York (SEAoNY), later supplemented by NIST personnel, spent countless hours selecting steel in the New Jersey recycling yards for later forensic analysis. After shipment to NIST, the Metallurgy Division cataloged the 236 recovered steel components. Since many pieces were stamped and painted with unique serial numbers correlated with the building plans, it was often possible to identify the exact original location in the building.
Steel specifications also regulate the chemical compositions. More than 350 different specimens, representing nearly every relevant steel component in the building, were analyzed for chemical composition and all of the sections relevant to the investigation. The chemical analysis helped confirm archival information that an American steel mill supplied steel for parts of the perimeter columns. The analyses also support the conclusion that the steels in the buildings met the specifications called for in the building plans.
NOT a pdf
Do you have any idea how much material was in that pile, Rabbit? Do you have space to keep it all until Judge Jones says it’s ok to melt it? The FBI doesn’t going around sharing evidence, except with Bob Woodward, but they confiscated it? Please show me a REAL news report that confirms this. There’s tons of photos and video out there publicly available. NIST is soliciting for more from anyone and everyone. And you’re a lawyer, too, apparently. When that Rodriguez case goes to trial, that’s all they need. The fact that the govt. won’t release information PROVES their case for them. That was easy! Lawyerin’s not so hard!!
—Something very funny was going on with a bunch of Israeli Spies who were dancing around a video camera which was set up on a tripod and had captured the whole attack sequence, from the first plane to the collapses. They also had explosive residues in their vehicle. They were released quickly and quietly back to Israel.
This seems to be a recurring theme among you Islamic terrorism deniers. The Jews are responsible. Earlier, on the God squad thread, you proudly posted a link to a holocaust-denier/sympathizer site. It was: http://www.erichufschmid.net/Conspiracies12.htm. Are you a denier Rabbit? Do you harbor ill-feeling toward Israel and the Jews? Is this one of the things that’s driving all this nonsense? To quote Liz: “Oh dear”. I don’t think you can blame me for wondering, especially after this Israeli spy claim, which is another “WebFAIRY” tale, I’m quite confident.
cont….....
pg. 4
You seem willing to believe virtually anything that happens to reflect badly on America, Britain and even Australia for taking action to defend against Islamic terrorism and totalitarianism.
Gerard Mathew’s baby is missing fingers certainly because her dad breathed a few DU molecules, even though the dozens of people who were actually in tanks hit by friendly fire DU have had no abnormal rates of deformed offspring, and exposure to radiation is not even an indicator of offspring defects. You’re very open to the possibility that American flight 77 didn’t really crash into the Pentagon and Barbara Olson is alive:
“Rabbit is of the Opinion only that the aircraft which hit the Pentagon, was a smaller jet at least, and was preceded by a missile, or it was pre-comstructed to break the re-inforcing of that particular part of the wall. There doesn’t appear to be any reason to believe that it was flight 77, for sure. The most disturbing part of the whole picture is always, and Rabbit dreads the answer, what happened in reality to the Passengers. Sometimes I go to sleep at night wondering and restless about this.” Posted by Rabbit on Nov 1, 2005 at 2:38 AM
14-16 seconds is close enough to free fall time for you; apparently you think the buildings should have hung in mid-air for minutes. For some reason, you find it strange that tons of drywall, fibrous ceiling tile and lightweight concrete would make a big dust cloud. You thought it credible and worthy of mention a report that a missile was fired from the Woolworth building. I am Mrs. Helbig, daughter Helbig, a government SHILL, at least. You think people are trying to hack into your computer, apparently because they are afraid the mighty kayaking Rabbit is hot on their trail.
What’s next? The levees were bombed?
Natty is the only one specifying video, but Rabbit has said he can’t be bothered playing anymore. There happens to be Video, but out of contempt for you Rabbit will not even bother posting a link. There is more than enough reports, from reliable media given, so whinge all you like, but you’ve got nothing.
You cannot believe anything which reflects badly on the USA and Rabbit has made his feelings about the USA very clear, and that the loathing and distrust has grown the last five years along with the rest of the world.
Rabbit repeats Natty is lying and avoiding the fact that all the issues she is still carrying on about are over and done wtha nd she has nothing. Rabbit refers to the threads as detailed above, for proof. Others have even been forced to change their opinions, by reading these threads and Natty is a lone Governement SHILL. She and the whole story will be posted in the Shill and Troll Museum soon, for everyone’s enlightenment.
Rabbit wonders why Natty was away so long again? Did Natty think that the Rabbit was banned maybe? Just waiting for the dust to settle before coming back and trying again were we?
Well some re-postings are in order uit seems. Just to annoy the bitch.
Oh and lying Shill, the Rabbit knows his computer was being hacked. there is a thing called a technician, which Rabbit once was, but is rusty now days, who can indeed find such things out. We know the computer was being hacked.
Rabbit knows you are a SHILL, so does everyone else, by the way.
Roger Helbig is a Pentagon Shill, and that is history, and you were his partner, your blatant shilling initially while pretending to be an openminded passer by, waws completely blown open, and the history stanmds there to prove it. Rabbit does not care whether you are a Helbig or not, but finds the co-incidence just a bit too interesting to ignore, and it is also history that you ran away for ages when this was first thrown into the ring. You scarpered, and considering the suggetsion only dam,aged your standing and still does, it is fascinating you have never made a serious effort to disprove it, something which is dead easy, you and Roger have expected others to identify themselves ,and because we have nothing to hide, others including Rabbnit have done so. You are douing ssomething which all shills do, remaining as anonymous as possible. Rabbit does not care if you are Natalie Helbig, but he will continue repeating it as long as you do nothing to prove otherwise, because it just might annoy you.
You have come across as an insane, vicous little mind. A mind so determined to face nothging which goes against the program that you are prtepared to act like an imbecile to do it.
The simplest way for Rabbit to finish you off is to simply say, you are going around the Blackberry bush again despite after about 900 postings, which have covered a mass of details, including those few you are now pretending are new.
Ther following posts are some of those which have been presented and which you have ignored. This should show why Rabbit is justified ignoring the SHILL.
Oh and Natty, Rabbit was wondering when you would post the BYU statement about Jones work.
Rabbit read it about a week ago. So what? they don’t do anything except cover their own ass. Everyone knows they got leant on big time. Their government funding and a number of private individuals was under threat. How stupid do you think we are?
You of course know that perfectly well, you are as said not deluded, you are a genuine professional liar. The university is his employer, cow, and not his colleagues. The colleagues whoi sat through the presentation, agreed, 100%.
Furthermore, Idiot Child Mind, the Professor has an excellent reputation, and his report is absolutely infallible, read it and weep, you are not going to be able to beat that report. This is why you are as usual attacking the man. You are so ignorant HNtty, that you have never yet read his report.
Rabbit has. Rabbit has also rerad the NIST report. Rabbit has in fact read all the reports available and being a Rabbit with much science background, enbgineering and explosives, it made very easy comprhension. Very simply the official reports are not scientific, they are crap, ignoring evidence because it would have screwed up the theory. The Jones report ignores nothing. Now since anybody can guess you have certainly not read much if any of the actual reports, it just shows your mental poverty when you dare to say Rabbit is easily convinced of anything. if you read even half of what there is, you would know that there is nothing substantial upon which to hold the official lie together. Just point to a single fact which supports your theory in place of ours. A fact Shill, just one real fact which supports fire over explosives.
You will have to read all those reports to realise there is not one. You are the one easily convinced it seems. If the government says it is, then you just swallow it down like an obedient idiot.
You are full of smoke and mirror tricks, character assassination, and blunt denial. You were only needed as a foil as said, you cannot be convinced of anything, except how lonely is your world of Faithful blind believers.
Oh and by the way Natty, as far as lying about DU, there is a high and increasing rate of birth deformities among veterans babies. The thing is it is only just begginning, since obviously not many of them have had time to have babies yet. As for the poisoning of them, you are in league with thoise scum who are poisoning them and the proof is as simple as this. You are resisting the testing of the returned troops, the pentagon will not have it, and once again that is a virtual admission of guilt. Those who have been tested have shown a high incidence of contamination, it is all on the thread.
Anyone who is ever reading this, know again that The ltying Shill is trying to re-write history, the Radiactive Wounds of War Thread, is a complete history of teh discussion which was overwhelmingly against the lies Natty espouses, and it furthermore will show Natty to be a government Shill. No mere Troll or Moron this one, she is the real deal, a Shill. Rabbit suspects she is employed by Rendon group or an underling.
nsatty, the Pentagon putting pressure on ITT in the sneaky way it did, has backfired. The Article and the thread is now being dealt with again on the basis of the Pentagon reaction to the article and the thread. Since the deatils they objected to have been repeated in many other media, it seems prety clear that it was the thread which was bothering them..
How we do know who you are. Stupid, stupid pentagon Shills. No wonder you idiots are so piss poor at fighting wars.
Rabbit owns a Kayak factory, rotational moulding actually.
He has many interests, including fishing, hunting and blowing things up, in colour, preferably.
Annoying Shills and hunting Trolls off sites is also a hobby of Rabbits.
The Radioactive wounds of War article is being dealt with on other media, since the controversy, by the way, was my point. Rabbit has seen it linked to by no fewer than five other outlets now, including Counterpunch.
Rabbit promised you and the lying Colonel, that you were digging your own graves, or an elephant trap for the Pentagon. You have. By your strident panic to cover it up, and your absolute determination to hide the truth no matter how you did it, you have competely given the gane away.
If the bastards want this issue kept quiet this much, then obviously it is Rabbit’s duty to ensure it gets as wide a hearing as possible. That is my intention only Vampire Carcass. To bring the issue into the light, and it is getting there realy fast. We had a documentary about Depleted Uranium and US usage of it especially. This was on the national broadcaster, on Television recently. Many other countries who stil have some freedomand democracy left are seeing such things these days, you don’t get unfiltered news there so wouldn’t know. read about it on the Web, girly, it is all reported faithfully there.
the issue is getting into the light, just like 911, and you still haven’t mentioned VonBulow I don’t think. Natty you just don’t get it. You cannot keep on attacking dozens and dozens of serious and honest people who say something you claim is untrue. You can do it, buyt afetr a while it becoem obvious that is a;ll you are doing, and it is equally obvious you are doing it to avoid what they are saying. This is very silly. The only thing all these people need to establish and they have easily done so, is that there is plenty of intelligent and qualified people who agree with us.
If your handful of recycled experts are being knocked out of the game, due to their lack of consideration of all the facts, as has been shown, this is not a personal attack. It is a valid query on their methods. Besides none of them have said it definately must have fallen due to fire alone, they were as I’ve said only trying to establish it could have happened that way.
In the end Natty, it is clear that there are amny who hold our view, and we are a rapidly growing group. Since all you have is faith and delusions, you can only lose over time.
Time is on our side, not yours.
The Rabbit has found you to be a loathsome, slimy debating partner. Useful only in as much as you give away your own game so easily. You are quite manipulable, possibly because yo8u are so blinded by your own hubris about your effectiveness. Simply put, you are not effective. If indeed you are being paid to Shill, then somebody is wasting their money. A Shill who is known is not much use except to us.
We have learnt so much about your masters from your efforts. Rabbit promised you and the Lying Colonel several months ago that he would do everything in his power to make the thread and article you were found on, into the biggest stick for wacking your masters he could. It could not have been done without your help, and if you had just pulled in your nasty heads back then, thendamage would have been minimal. Luckily the biggest animals are always the easiest to trap.
Looks like Captain Doug Rokke is still kicking you in the teeth?
Just a personal Blog entry, opinion.
The Children, learn to live with it.
Natty cares about Children, she thinks they make great shields, she tried using some Iraqi kids as a shield once, dirty shill.
Arab American Priest
This article is promising, this is what is coming to get you, LIARS.
<blockquote>An Arab-American Priest, Depleted Uranium, and Iraq
By Robert Hirschfield
Father Simon Harak (Photo R. Hirschfield).
TRAVELING around southern Iraq in the late 1990s to investigate the effects of U.N. economic sanctions on ordinary Iraqis, Jesuit Father Simon Harak stopped at a hospital in Basra. Meeting with him and his colleagues from the anti-sanction group Voices in the Wilderness, Dr. Jenan Hassan briefed them about the medical horrors she and other doctors were confronting as a result of the use of depleted uranium (DU) weapons by the U.S. Army in southern Iraq during the 1991 Gulf war. There was a fivefold increase in cancer, especially leukemia, she said, and a five- to eightfold increase in children born with genetic defects.
Dr. Hassan showed the Voices group some of the newborns.
<blockquote>Harak recalled being told by doctors in Basra that the deformed children they were delivering reminded them of the pictures they had seen of Chernobyl babies. When a baby is born in Basra, the doctors said, the first question the mother asks her obstetrician is:
Now what has Professor Jones done to upset Natty so?
He has written a report wherein he specifically staes he is avoiding all other issues except those wherein his expertise lay.
If Natty had read anything before she attacked it, she would not have asked such a redundant question. Ad Hominen attacks is all Natty knows. His report is very scientific Natty, if you ever read it you will see how a real scientist reports, not those fakes your lot used to dredge up. You don’t seem to have any recent experts Natty? Is that because the facts which were being ignored by the first few, are too well known now? Of course it is Natty. Let’s face it, you don’t have anything except a shakey fairy story and a few half assed reports which nobody except drongos who have not read them could take seriously. Why don’t you read the NIST report Natty? Then read the Griffin book, then read Jones’ report, then Natty, you might realise what you are up against. Clown Girl.
<blockquote>This seems to be a recurring theme among you Islamic terrorism deniers. The Jews are responsible. Earlier, on the God squad thread, you proudly posted a link to a holocaust-denier/sympathizer site. It was: http://www.erichufschmid.net/Conspiracies12.htm. Are you a denier Rabbit? Do you harbor ill-feeling toward Israel and the Jews? Is this one of the things that
So Lying Shill, are you a complete mercenary? A traitor to the USA as well as to Humankind?
Attack on the USS Liberty by Israel.
A bit of History of Jewish atrocities.
One does not have to be anti Jewish to decry their atrocities, and more than one has to be anti Christian to decry their Atrocities. Of course we know that all those who are decrying Muslim atrocities are anti muslim, that can be seen in the illegal wars of aggression your nation is engaged in. The main feeling among American supporters of the aggression is Anti Muslim, and scum like you are feeding that feeling.
This is the Red Cross report from after the war and as can be seen it does raise some questions about the holocaust. It must be really confusing being so ill informed as you are Natty. As an American you are automatically handicapped in a debate with an Aussie or an Englishman, we have much more comprehensive and balanced education systems, its historical. The level of literacy and education in the USA is universally accepted as poor. even the educated Americans knows this.
An aside. Live Hijackers, re-post, end of story, this is ireffutable girly, and no video needed, as said you could deny that too, but you are not going to beat the sourcing of that post.
One ref for the suspicious Israelis
Any clues what they were up to Shill?
American Free Press via the faithful Rense.
Now Natty, Rabbit is as tolerant of Jews as of any Religion, though he tends to favour the gentle Budhists over most. But this does not mean that Rabbit will ignore something bad, just because a Jew did it. Rabbit has hopes for an America which can once again take its place among civilised and democratic nations, and even now Rabbiot has many American friends who he loves and who are more determined to make America geat again than you are to destroy it, with lies and atrocities and lies about atrocities.
Natty dear, the NAZI’s didn’t call themselves evil doers either, it was the rest of the world who defined this fact.
By the way, even if the bulk of the Holocaust turned out to be false, it doesn’t make the Nazi’s better, it just makes more sense when looking at the vicious little terrorist nation Israel has become. Many of us have wondered how a people can suffer such atrocities and yet so quickly embrace terrorism the way Israel’s founders did, and behave with such brutal abandon against the Pallestinians.
The fact that they have always been practising manipulation and terrorism actually makes a lot more sense, and besides it has a lot of historical precedent.
Natty in more ad hominem attacks dares to question Rabbit’s expertise. You know something girly your ignorance gets greater by the day.
You poverty of mind is so sad. Rabbit does not need to qualify himself to you, he has demonstrated complete expertise and exoplained things from the viewpoint of an expert, and you have yet dared to try and argue when you admittedly know nothing. Actually Rabbit has dropped three buildings and they were all steel, though they were only large steel structures, one was a thirty meter silo and Rabbit removed the roof like a frisbee as indicated. He did this, purely for fun, and because there was room for it. He has no pictures as it happens, but so what? As for a few Firecrackers and models, you dim broad. Rabbit was one of only two full time employed Professional Fireworks Operators in Western Australia. In 2000, he fired an finale over Exmouth, which included 200 three and four inch shells, and six eight-inch, and two twelve inch shells. At that time the biggest shells fired in WA.
A twelve inch shell takes about eleven seconds to reach apogee at about one mile high and it breaks out to a diameter of about half a mile. That is not exactly a firecracker girly. The 3 inch salutes which Rabbit used are the same as military and police Stun greandes. You really should be careful about what you ridicule, for a dummy you sure do like to jump into the unknown with both feet first and your head up your butt.
Furthermore, Natty, Rabbit is a pyrotechnic chemist. That means he can make explosives and fireworks and has indeed done so. The amount of insight this gives is far beyond anything you could begin to imagine. With a background in Physics and Chemistry, and a lifetime in fabrication, expecially metal, I would pity you trying to argue such basics as you are, if it were not for the fact that I know you are just doing your job. Lying and covering up.
It has been said before Natty, the truth doesn’t need people to coverup for it. That is all you are doing and all the government is doing.
What are you hiding? Why don’t you release the evidence?
Because you are lying and it will prove it.
Numerous experts in the field of engineering as well as demolitions experts have been referenced in the hundreds of posts which you ran from on the God Squad thread, so lie away girl, everyone can read. The reason Natty arbitrarily jumped into this thread with this off topic issue is because she had to stay with the issue, but needed to make a break between her and the complete destruction her case suffered at the God Suad thread.
Pretty transparent isn’t she?
Natty is a Liar. Natty is a Shill.
Natty poisons children.
and lies upon the hill.
Torture is her next job. Pretend it isn’t true.
When the light gets way too bright.
She’ll bite like a nasty shrew.
NAT the BAT.
In the Hat.
Your a Rat.
<blockquote>Right. I
Something more to annoy the LIARS.
<blockquote> 911 for Very Busy People
You’re really busy, right? You’ve heard something about 9-11 and conspiracy theories, but you don’t have time for it. Right?
Well, here is a very brief executive summary for you of some of the facts about 9-11 which you likely have never heard (and which will bring you up to speed on the issue in around 2 minutes):
the rest…......
<blockquote>
The full story and all the references to prove that NINE of the nineteen are alive and well.
The actual references are solid, discussion which ignores each individual report, and it’s veracity is anything but the usual smoke and mirrors. If Rabbit has started by offering a video of any of them, Natty would not have accepted that as proving anything, and on it’s own Rabbit would agree.
The proof is within that reference, it isn’t worth Rabbit re-posting something with dozens of links. Nor is it going to help Natty’s case to come along and say it isn’t the right colour, or she won’t accept anything less than a letter from God saying its true, or she wan’t a video, or a Shrubbery to prove it. It is proven, so up yours, find another angle.
The truth is simple, there really isn’t any proof that those nineteen men did anything, and as usual somebody involved in the deal stuffed up. Lousy bunch of crooks, that’s all they are.
This is a new one for Rabbit
It sure does get the message out loud and clear.
It covers the Hijackers too of course but so much more.
Another site against your lies, how can you cope Natty? Do you have enough hate to go around? Or does each newborn resister to the LIES come with it’s own new injection of Hate for your scummy soul?
OK Rabbit is bored now, he will be back to see how much wriggling you do on the barbs of truth, in a day or so.
Or then again he might just find some juicy piece of info to wack you with.
Rabbit is also busier than he can believe in his factory, he is making lots of money and selling little boats faster than he can make them right now. Doesn’t that just warm Natty’s heart to know that?
Rabbit is also about to eat a big chocolate muffin!
.............................................
................................Do Shills have a work Christmas party?
........
..........................................^^...............................................
<blockquote> Here are some issues about the September 11th attacks to consider:
World Trade Center Towers
*Jet fuel does not burn hot enough to melt steel.
Footage shows explosives were placed in both towers before the attack to cause the towers to disintegrate into dust.
*The towers fell exactly into their footprint, taking the path of most resistance in about 10 seconds, the same amount of time it takes an object to fall that distance in a vacuum.
*The towers tossed massive steel beams 200 feet in each direction, too far to be explained by a gravity collapse.
Survivors and firefighters report explosions at the BASE of the WTC towers at the same time as the planes hit it - how did Osama do this?
*Pools of molten metal were found 7 stories under the towers 6 weeks after the attack. It takes 5000+ degrees Fahrenheit to turn steel into liquid. Where did this energy come from?
*The top of the south tower began to collapse sideways, then righted itself, falling into it’s footprint. This is impossible with only gravity working to collapse the tower.
Building 7
*It was a 47 story, steel-framed building that disintegrated later in the day, also from explosives. It was not hit by any planes. How did Osama pull this one off?
*The 23rd floor was the Mayor
Not all of the above FACTS have to lead to something for them to support a much different theory than yours. But, They ALL have to be wrong for your theory to be true.
Like the probability and all the other logic and science, you’ll just have to leave that to the experts, and the sensible people, to conclude, since logic is not Natty’s strong suit.
You’d make a great magicians assistant though.
Funny Natty should use Professor Astenah for her case, we have already presented his results, and dealt with the limitations of his work, in support of our case.
Some info
It is funny to remember how Natty attacked the Professor Astenah when we first raised his data. She attacked his Arab name as meaning he was biased, and attacked Berkeley as being anti-bush. DUH?.
Perhaps we should look at Natty’s response to Whit and Rabbit raising Astenah’s work following trhe quote she so stupidly provides from Whit. Now she thinks he might help her case, she is singing a different tune. DUH?.
Yawn…......^^..........
Oh Rabbit almost forgot.
Don’t try talking about explosives Natty, you are way out of your league there. Rabbit said that Thermite is not a True Explosive which is true, but technically speaking nor is gunpowder, it is a distinction made at the level of pyrotechnic chemistry with which Rabbit is familiar, it is however a distincion completely moot in the case of even a Physics professor, and certainly for a twit like your self, Thermite is an explosive. Jones mentions it and refers to it as an explosive. It is quite simple, just because it can be made to go bang, or even does go bang, does not mean it is an explosive. Explosions, as you think of it, can be made with steam, or even Grain Dust. Explosions as we think of it have to do with the speed of reaction, forget it girly it is way past your nedtime.
It goes bang, especially when used in demolitions, because, yes you did guess it, it has to have a detonation, and that results in a bang, a very specific bang if you know what to listen for, but it was interesting to note how some witnesses described the explosions they heard, like a POP POP POP said one firefighter. yes, that sounds familiar, not so much a sharp high explosive bang which amongst concrete buildings as sound shields would have been distorted a bit, more af a slower POP, the detoantion is the start but the Thermite will give a slower report as it fires up, but it is designed to fire all at once, not just a slow fizzle like a sparkler.
try wrapping about Fifty sparklers together, all in a tight bundle, with a detonator in the middle, say a small cracker, and lots of wraps of alfoil around the lot, just a fuse sticking out.
You will be astonished at the volume of the sound and the amount of heat produced, as witnessed by the sparkler wires will be melted, even partially vaporised…..........Exactly the same as the steel from the WTC which was found to have been partially vaporised.
Jet fuel can’t do that girly. LP gas can’t do that even if you pump pure oxygen into the mix. Oxyacetylene cannot do that either, oh it can vaporise steel in small amounts and does, so does arc welding and Mig welding, but to vaporise steel from such large pieces, huge Heat Sinks requires a temperature which very few things reach in the normal course of human chemistry reactions. The list is currently limited to Thermite, unless you wish to consider Nuclear Explosion. There are maybe some gradews of PETN which rabbit has not had his paws on which would vaporise Steel, but actually that is highly unlikely. The power of PETN comes from its speed of reaction, and anything higher than Rabbit has used, about 700,000 meters per second, would certainly be too quick to vaporise anything except the cutting face. No, thermite is the only candidate girly and one day when the truth comes out once and for all, Rabbit suspects it will be shown to have been Thermite. Not a hard one to call, he might see if he can place a bet on it somewhere.
Natty Natty, quite contratty:
here is the BBC report on your hijackers. I am back from vacation and my blood boils anytime I witness Hitler’s goons spreading their filth in my country.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1559151.stm
Hi Beowulf,
like a Norse Warrior of old,
returned from his wanderings, to find, Hitlers Goons, the nasty Vampire Hag, spreading lies and sliming peoples eyes.
She has had that link several times but says she wants a video. She is insatiable, we know full well that a video would also have been dismissed out of hand. See how she has crippled herself by introducing Professor Astenahs work now. Rabbit is about to post her response to OUR introduction of Astenah when it was relevant. Just to show the moral poverty and craven nature of the beast.
Hi Beowulf, welcome back. Hi Rabbit and Natalie too.
Rabbit, you are the proverbial knight in shiny armor and I salute you.
Natalie, as much as it pains me to say it, you are the knight in armor that is not so shiny.
David and Rabbit,
I salute you as ones who are a light in a dark world where illusion is king and lies are peddled as proverbial truths.
“In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”
1984
As much as it pains me to say it, I was quite premature and simply bigoted to initially doubt the professor from Berkley based solely on the “blueness” of his geographical location. At the time, I was unclear about his attitude because for some reason I hadn’t come across his more recent report:
safe html version
I wrongly suspected that he might have been affected by the attitudes of fellow faculty members in other areas of academia traditionally much more susceptible to emotion, imagination and propaganda. It never even dawned on me that he might be an example of somebody that immigrated to America in order to pursue his area of expertise minus any interference from “fundamentalists”. In other words, freely.
Not until reading the below referenced article did I realize that Leslie “the mechanic” Robertson was also a product of that famous oasis of head-in-the-sand liberalism known as U.C. Berkley, CA. Two examples, it would seem, of the difference between practically-minded realists, and theoretically-minded “visionaries”, the latter of which seem to include in their ranks certain hot and cold fusion physicists.
<i>Despite the horror of the site, he said he wanted to be there to salvage something informative from the tragedy. As one of few, if any, Iranians or Muslims within the restricted area around the site, he recalled his own arrival to the United States in 1978 to embark on graduate studies. His first stop, accompanied by his wife and one-year old son, was New York City. His first picture: the unbelievably tall towers of the World Trade Center and the Statue of Liberty…......
.......By chance, while visiting the offices of The New York Times last week to chat with one of its science writers, he heard about plans to immediately recycle steel from the site, and launched a lobbying effort to convince the city to wait until the debris had been inspected by structural engineers. Thanks largely to a Saturday article by Kenneth Chang and James Glanz, the city has agreed to make the steel available to Astaneh and other engineers heading up an investigation for the American Society of Civil Engineers….....
........The World Trade Center was far better constructed than the Murrah building, down to a pedigree for each steel beam and a welder
Here it is, Natty’s response to The mention of Professor Astenah, mentioned in context of the dissatisfaction with missing evidence, and the simulations, unsatisfactory as all admitted they were in some respects. They showed what would happen when the plene flew into the building and they didn’t show a collapse.
<i>As much as it pains me to say it, I was quite premature and simply bigoted to initially doubt the professor from Berkley based solely on the
Oh Blast….... the Natty quote got lost.
here it is. The way she answered our mention of Astenah, the same sort of response she gives to all of dozens of other engineers, experts in various fields of consequence, and a few high ranbking government ministers from various countries including the USA.
<blockquote>................although I wouldn
<i>Now Rabbit, surely you don
A small detail, not everybody runs around with a camera sweety, that’s an even more prosaic explanation. But Rabbit has some wicked Video footage of some of his fireworks displays which might make his bloggy thing one day.
You are being stuffed and mounted for display in his Museum of Shills, Trolls and Special Morons.
This was promised about two posts before the one you quoted from Whit about Astenah on page five here. Rabbit was reminded of it whilst looking at your dissembling and twisting back then. Two months later the Museum is up, but the displays are bare. You mustn’t take up all Rabbit’s time he has work to do on your display.
You call others biased when you are so biased we can predict your every BELIEF just by considering the official government line.
Let’s go Natty, tell us you vary from the official line on one issue, one single issue of consequence. You cannot, because you are a Shill. Any natural human being has various views, we proved that with the Trolls, and at leats a few of them always run contrary to the official line. Not Natty, she is a Shill.
Torture Natty? You deny it happens, at the same time as you justify it anyway. We know, because that is what the government is doing.
Katrina? Everybody else in America almost was down on the government, but Natty? Not on your life. It was all those nasty poor people and all the liars and trouble makers, like us and the media making up bad stories about the government who were doing a great job. Yeh Natty we know. What about South America ? We know, Evil Chavez, Evil Castro. They are the problem….....
What about Global Warming? We know Natty. We know the abberant insane policy.
What about Creationism? That’s only a diversion anyway. Prove to us you are not a Shill by telling us you think it is madness to have Intelligent design taught in its proposed form, in US schools. That will convince us, sure it will.
No seriously you’d have to go a bit further than that, but it would interest Rabbit to know if you think a god made you, an ET made you, or whether you just crawled out of a swamp.
“There has been some concern expressed by others that the work of the team has been hampered because debris was removed from the site and has subsequently been processed for recycling. This is not the case. The team has had full access to the scrap yards and to the site and has been able to obtain numerous samples. At this point there is no indication that having access to each piece of steel from the World Trade Center would make a significant difference to understanding the performance of the structures.”
I believe that lying to Congress is quite a serious
crime.
—The government removed ALL the structural evdence and had it destroyed overseas. .....Rabbit
<i>“Natty is the only one specifying video, but Rabbit has said he can
Natty is asking for video which nobody ever promised, nobody needs and which as said would prove nothing. Those guys are alive, as Beowulf has said, fool, everyone knows that, you are living in a fools world.
It has been repeatedly pointed out, and is at least of consequence, that the government is “Hiding” the video evidence which would exonerate it, if they were not lying, which they are. We don’t need the video to know they are lying, and you are not changing anybody’s mind. In fact your blatant denial and shilling is helping to show many people the poverty of the the official line. Keep on blabbing about a video, pretending you have some sort of point because nobody is giving you a video for something which is pointless. The point was proving those men were alive, and that is taken care of. You are just pretending like always.
Now more shall be posted to annoy you, many more facts and of course more people are learning the truth faster and faster. Keep sticking your fingers in the leaks little girl but you can’t stop the flood of truth. SHILL.
Are you blind by the way, can you not see you have had masses of proof that the seven and possibly noine are alive? Of course you can, It has been posted repeatedly and even oethers ahve done, you are just in a little bit of a frenzy because you think that for once you have asked for something and Rabbit has not produced it. You asked for Engineers when it was not necessary for the facts being presented, yet Rabbit obliged the stupid girl and posted several reprts by engineers which support the theory that explosives were need to bring down the buildings. These were all detailed reports and very straightforward, not credible refutation has been made of any of them, and yet you ignored all the details, and simply attacked the character of these men. Among the expert opinion you have ignored has been the ex German Defense Minister, A Canadian Minister, various other professionals and relevant persons, all of whom say eseentially the same things in this regard, there is no mystery.
You have asked for so many different things, stupidly and transparantly ignoring the important issues the whole time, Dissembling it’s called, and we have seen a lot of Ad-Hominem attacks, the tool of the fool. It has been obvious, and despite your repeated attempts to come up with something we could not provide we have provided an enormous body of evidence, much of it redundant as the point Rabbit set out to make in each case had been made for any rational being several times overby then as a rule. never mind what it was, you always find a way to wriggle out, Ignoring it completely…....Pathetic.
Attack the source .........Craven (Your kneejerk attack on Astenah, blew it didn’t you, clown.)
Attack the witness…............Hopeless.
Natty you are dirt as far as debating partners go, the lowest, Rabbit has met folks with most of the views you espouse, but never anyone who went to such lengths to avoid admitting she has nothing.
How many people have you convinced of anything? Dingbat.
Rabbit knows you would have ignored any video of the hijackers frankly it is not a as good as the credited Newspaper reports from the various sources given, they included photos by the way. Of course others are seeing it. Cannot teach a Shill anything we know that.
Where is all the many people who are believing your lies? Why is nobody ever supporting you Natty?
Why are you always on your own?
No other issue on this site ever see’s the official bullshit unsupported by at least a couple of determined morons. Not one can take the utterly devastating amount of Proof, yes we can legitimately claim to have enough proof of the Government’s involvement, be it only circumstantial, it is such particular circumstances as has been detailed before, that it leaves no doubt. No wonder they have Shills like you pushing the lies, trying to prop up a failing tower of cards.
Did we see the plane fly into the building in Iran? When can we expect the building to fall down Natty? Shouldn’t it fall into it’s own footprint? There was a big fire too. What’s wrong Natty? The iranians must build better buildings maybe? Of course we know what was missing. Preplaced explosives.
What went wrong?
Dave Heller
I think Natty’s need for a video on top of this, is just sour grapes. Why do you spend so much time arguing things which don’t actually make a scrap of difference to the main contention that the government was behind it? This we have certainly left no doubt about of course but there is so much more coming in at the moment that Rabbit is happy to keep adding more fuel to the fire under your cause , Vampire.
<blockquote>Saeed Al-Ghamdi (Flight 93) (Trained Pilot)
“Saeed Al-Ghamdi is one of three hijackers that US officials have said are linked to Osama bin Laden’s al-Qaida network.” - BBC
No BBC! Mr. Al-Ghamdi is still alive and well and at his job for Tunis Air.
“I was completely shocked. For the past 10 months I have been based in Tunis with 22 other pilots learning to fly an Airbus 320. The FBI provided no evidence of my presumed involvement in the attacks.” - Telegraph 23rd September 2001
“Asharq Al Awsat newspaper, a London-based Arabic daily, says it has interviewed Saeed Al-Ghamdi.” - BBC 23rd September 2001
“Abdel Aziz Al-Omari and Sa�d Hussein Gharamallah Al-Ghamdi, are well in life, the first in Saudi Arabia and the second in Tunisia for nine months.” - Wal Fadjri 21st September 2001 (translate)
“..... not dead and had nothing to do with the heinous terror attacks in New York and Washington.” - Saudi embassy
————————————————————————————————————————
Waleed Al-Shehri (Flight 11) (Trained Pilot)
“A sixth person on the FBI’s list, Saudi national Waleed Al-Shehri, is living in Casablanca, according to an official with the Royal Air Moroc, the Moroccan commercial airline. According to the unnamed official, Al-Shehri lived in Dayton Beach, Fla., where he took flight training at Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University. Now he works for a Moroccan airline.” On Sept. 22, Associated Press reported that Alshehri had spoken to the U.S. embassy in Morocco.
“His photograph was released by the FBI, and has been shown in newspapers and on television around the world. That same Mr Al-Shehri has turned up in Morocco, proving clearly that he was not a member of the suicide attack.” - Daily Trust 24th September 2001.
“He was reported to have been in Hollywood, Florida, for a month earlier this year but his father, Ahmed, said that Waleed was alive and well and living in Morocco.” - Telegraph
“Another of the men named by the FBI as a hijacker in the suicide attacks on Washington and New York has turned up alive and well.” - BBC 23rd September 2001.
————————————————————————————————————————
Ahmed Al-Nami (Flight 93)
“I’m still alive, as you can see. I was shocked to see my name mentioned by the American Justice Department. I had never even heard of Pennsylvania where the plane I was supposed to have hijacked.” He had never lost his passport and found it “very worrying” that his identity appeared to have been “stolen” and published by the FBI without any checks. The FBI had said his “possible residence” was Delray Beach in Florida.” - Telegraph 23rd September 2001
blockquote>
Arabs are not to blame
The logic of all those who question the offical Lie, is as always, beyond reproach. Only someone like Natty or a lunatic can stand against such self evident logic, simple clear truth, and you don’t need anything except an open mind, and then everything falls into place. A closed mind is what Natty is so valiantly showing us, a totally closed, and completely prostituted mind. A mind which has but one object, the crippling of Truth, The slowing down of the dissemination of information which will of course lead to the imprisonment and death penalty for many of her superiors. Who knows maybe Natty has a stake in it too. Maybe Natty is a Shill in the know. In which case she will be VERY expendable to some people one of these days. You just keep on shilling desperately girly, they’ll keep feeding you as long as you be a good shilly girl. But one day, chop chop, they don’t need you and you know too much.
the above reference.
One of the best ways to prove a hypothesis, is to use it to predict something. Assuming Natty is a SHILL and it has been noticed that she isn’t a very smart one, then it started to become obvious to Rabbit that one thing she is so constantly denying and referring to, despite Rabbit having never seriously proposed it was the theory that no plane hit the pentagon. She seemed just a little too eager to keep protesting something which Rabbit wasn’t promoting. Why is she so concerned about this? Ah Ha, the Shill shows where it’s treasure is hidden again. Well, being convinced that a Shill of such dull wits, would indeed be likely to give away the location of it’s treasure Rabbit starts to look more closely at the Pentagon thing and there is furthermore new stuff popping up now.
Thank you Natty, the Rabbit is indebted to you for giving him a heads up on that one, he was otherwise inclined to dismiss most of the doubts about that one. Not so now.
Anyone who wants to wade through the technical stuff, these guys have made a very interesting case. Shows the incredible maneuvers supposedly performed by inexperienced, even incompetant pilots, interetsting patterns emerge.
Team8plus
Enjoy,
bye for now,
Vampire suck up some more defeat for your cause,.
Down Down deeper and down.
A Good days Shill wacking, that team8 presentation is probably really getting some of Natty’s employers very hot under the collar.
Come on Natty, you are dead in the water., Rabbit can go on posting excellent resources, they are coming down the pipeline more and more as the movement grows. As long as you slither and slime about you are once again only bringing further discredit on a cause which has shown as Rabbit predicted even less chance of success than your DU lies.
It is time for you to move on, here you are moaning about a something which is neither here nor there, and you are doing it on the bones of defeat. Time you moved on to your next assignment. We are seriously trashing the USA over Torture on the appropriate thread, here on ITT where you so like infesting. Go and defend the Junta, we are calling them Torturers, and we are saying Torture is evil. Come Natty, the trumpet blows, to battle, for evil and darkness, someone is questioning the masters. Also Bush LIES. Yes he does, and we all know it.
Torturers R US.
Oh but Natty doesn’t like crowds, she runs away when others come to play. She likes only to suck Rabbits. In the Dark the Vampire sneaks and tries to grab Rabbit, tries to suck his blood, but Rabbit is small and quick and the Vampire is slow and dull. Wack it with a stick and run Rabbit run.
I will point out that there are readers watching this exchange. Silent spectators.
I like to watch ... heehee ... but I speak up every now and then too.
Poor readers to read through it all. Poor Rabbit to post it all. Poor electrons who work hard to make it all happen.
Poor Natty’s computer which is being forced to perform the devils work. An Apple too, how sad.
Why won’t the Vampire take the bait Dave? Do you think it knows Rabbit is trying to trick it?
Torture…............Nat the Bat….............Torture…....smell of blood,
come and stand up for the torture which is so much a part of US foreign policy it seems.
The perfect accompaniment to Depleted Uranium.
Torture
Jiggle ...... jiggle ....was that a nibble
In case you were wondering, Rabbit is building a bracket.
..................................................^^...........................................
This may surprise some of you, seeing as how I am a vampire, a beast and most notably a SHILL, but I abhor torture. Can’t stand it. Give me DU, give me 9/11 LIES by the JUNTA to cover up, but don’t get me started on torture. It just seems wrong to me. I refuse to defend it.
Documented human rights violations 1979-2003
Human rights organizations have documented government approved executions, acts of torture, and rape for decades since Saddam Hussein came to power in 1979 until his fall in 2003.
In 2002, a resolution sponsored by the European Union was adopted by the Commission for Human Rights, which stated that there had been no improvement in the human rights crisis in Iraq. The statement condemned President Saddam Hussein’s government for its “systematic, widespread and extremely grave violations of human rights and international humanitarian law”. The resolution demanded that Iraq immediately put an end to its “summary and arbitrary executions… the use of rape as a political tool and all enforced and involuntary disappearances”.
Two years earlier, two human rights organizations, the International Federation of Human Rights League and the Coalition for Justice in Iraq released a joint report, accusing the Saddam Hussein regime of committing “massive and systematic” human rights violations, particularly against women. The report spoke of public beheadings of women who were accused of being prostitutes, which took place in front of family members, including children. The heads of the victims were publicly displayed near signs reading, “For the honor of Iraq.” The report documented 130 women who had been killed in this way, but stated that the actual number was probably much higher. The report also describes human rights violations directed against children. The report states that children, as young as 5 years old, are recruited into the “Ashbal Saddam,” or “Saddam’s Cubs,” and indoctrinated to adulate Saddam Hussein and denounce their own family members. The children are also subjected to military training, which includes cruelty to animals. The report also describes how parents of children are executed if they object to this treatment, and in some cases, the children themselves are imprisoned.
Full political participation at the national level was restricted only to members of the Arab Ba’ath Socialist Party, which constituted only 8% of the population. Therefore, it was impossible for Iraqi citizens to change their government.
Iraqi citizens were not allowed to assemble legally unless it was to express support for the government. The Iraqi government controlled the establishment of political parties, regulates their internal affairs and monitors their activities.
Police checkpoints on Iraqi’s roads and highways prevented ordinary citizens from traveling abroad without government permission and expensive exit visas. Before traveling, an Iraqi citizen had to post collateral. Iraqi women could not travel outside of the Country without the escort of a male relative.
The activities of citizens living inside Iraq who received money from relatives abroad were closely monitored.
cont…...
pg. 2
In 1988, the Hussein regime began a campaign of extermination against the Kurdish people living in Northern and Southern Iraq. This is known as the Anfal campaign. The attacks resulted in the death of at least 50,000 (some reports estimate as many as 100,000 people), many of them women and children. A team of Human Rights Watch investigators determined, after analyzing eighteen tons of captured Iraqi documents, testing soil samples and carrying out interviews with more than 350 witnesses, that the attacks on the Kurdish people were characterized by gross violations of human rights, including mass executions and disappearances of many tens of thousands of noncombatants, widespread use of chemical weapons including Sarin, mustard gas and nerve agents that killed thousands, the arbitrary imprisoning of tens of thousands of women, children, and elderly people for months in conditions of extreme deprivation, forced displacement of hundreds of thousands of villagers after the demolition of their homes, and the wholesale destruction of nearly two thousand villages along with their schools, mosques, farms, and power stations.
In April 1991, after Saddam lost control of Kuwait in the Gulf War, he cracked down ruthlessly against uprisings in the Kurdish north and the Shia south. His forces committed wholesale massacres and other gross human rights violations against both groups similar to the violations mentioned before. Estimates of deaths during that time range from 40,000 to 100,000 for Kurds, and 60,000 to 130,000 for Shi’ites.
In June of 1994, the Hussein regime in Iraq established severe penalties, including amputation, branding and the death penalty for criminal offenses such as theft, corruption, currency speculation and military desertion.
On March 23, 2003, during the 2003 invasion of Iraq, Iraqi television presented and interviewed prisoners of war on TV, violating the Geneva Convention.
In March of 2003, Britain released video footage of Iraqi soldiers firing on fleeing Iraqi citizens near the town of Basra in southern Iraq.
Also in April of 2003, CNN revealed that it had withheld information about Iraq torturing journalists and Iraqi citizens in the 1990s. According to CNN’s chief news executive, the channel had been concerned for the safety not only of its own staff, but also of Iraqi sources and informants, who could expect punishment for speaking freely to reporters. Also according to the executive, “other news organizations were in the same bind.” [1]
After the 2003 Invasion of Iraq, several mass graves were found in Iraq containing several thousand bodies total, and more are being uncovered to this day. While most of the dead in the graves were believed to have died in the 1991 uprising against Saddam Hussein, some of them appeared to have died due to executions or died at times other than the 1991 rebellion.
Also after the invasion, numerous torture centers were found in security offices and police stations throughout Iraq. The equipment found at these centers typically included hooks for hanging people by the hands for beatings, devices for electric shock, and other equipment often found in nations with harsh security services and other middle eastern nations.
According to some reports, torture was used to improve the performance of the Iraqi soccer team.
Source for above:
Wikipedia
Natty quickly. Help these poor defenders of the USA, they are trying to stand up for denial and delusion, but are clearly out numbered, at least in IQ count.
They need your help
“Help, Natalie, help, we need an Innocent, wide eyed, all American Girl to come to our rescue, ....help….. we need her open mind and discernment, her unique American morality to show these ignorant Witches and Rabbits and to hold back the light, it’s hurting our eyes, help…..”
Torture, .. Blood….smell the death Vampire.
The News We Kept To Ourselves
04/11/03 EASON JORDAN
ATLANTA
pg. 2
Then there were the events that were not unreported but that nonetheless still haunt me. A 31-year-old Kuwaiti woman, Asrar Qabandi, was captured by Iraqi secret police occupying her country in 1990 for “crimes,” one of which included speaking with CNN on the phone. They beat her daily for two months, forcing her father to watch. In January 1991, on the eve of the American-led offensive, they smashed her skull and tore her body apart limb by limb. A plastic bag containing her body parts was left on the doorstep of her family’s home.
I felt awful having these stories bottled up inside me. Now that Saddam Hussein’s regime is gone, I suspect we will hear many, many more gut-wrenching tales from Iraqis about the decades of torment. At last, these stories can be told freely.
Eason Jordan is chief news executive at CNN.
Source: New York Times.
Ha ha, she has bitten, and was Rabbit quick on the line or what.
Rabbit swears he posted that last post totally randomly, between boats, and he got her, the eel is on the line, a bit.
Natty nothing you said was a surprise, it was exactly the way Rabbit predicted you would eneter the fray. Start saying torture is evil and you abhor it, and then start pointing your nasty finger at Saddam Hussein, at the Taliban, and anywhere , but away from yourself. Of course you abhor Torture you good little Shill. Lovely loopy Vampy miss, did you seriously think the old Rabbit expected you to come into this dressed in your cape and with fangs in place? Slavering over torture and pain and blood. No you will dress for the occasion, like any respectable person. You might as well go to the thread, dear enemy. It awaits you.
So far the torture thread has been without more than token resistance, but a couple of “Handlers” seem to be on it. Awaiting a leader of course. Otherwise the damned enemies of the Good and Noble Junta, Rabbit and others, are dominating the torture thread.
Of course you abhor torture, except when the USA does it, right?
Not here Nat go to the right thread.
If it will help Rabbit will say you win this debate. Of course the official Lie, I mean Story is true, and Rabbit cannot ever imagine why he would have thought otherwise. You have made it abundantly clear, and Rabbit agrees with everything you say.
Rabbit is offering himself as president of the I believe Natalie club, are there any objections from other believers?
Don’t forhget to read the Article Natty, it isn’t actually Saddam Hussein’s Torture we were discussing, but you are welcome to raise it, it is certainly relevant.
They are using the same torture centers for a start.
Wrong Place, you go to the right thread, this is cowardly, avoiding even the real debate. Sneaking around like a disease.
Nat that last post didn’ register on the referencing scale, have you leanred nothing yet?
Take it where it counts, Rabbit is out of here, you’ve got directions.
I sense an attempt to change the subject. Could this possibly be because you realize that there is nothing to your fantasy about the 9/11 hijackers being alive? And because your oft repeated nonsense about ALL the steel being carted away to foreign smelts is a total misrepresentation of reality?
Things you’ve railed about from day one and now that I’ve finally addressed them and identified them for the hoaxs they are, you want to flee to ANOTHER fantasy…..that being that the USA is all about torture.
You say Hussein’s torture is relevant. How relevant is it really, to you? Do a few perverts (that were already under investigation by the military by the time their games were revealed) humiliating some muslim thugs trump body parts being delivered to your doorstep like so much pizza?
Please reassure the blogosphere that your sense of proportion hasn’t been compromised by the copious amounts of reality-altering substances you’ve inhaled.
Yes Natty that’s right, you have convinced the Rabbit, you are just so logical and all, that is why you have so many others convinced as well. More ad-hominem attacks , but what could we expect from the dregs of moral and intellectual credibility, such as thou.
Rabbit has repeated the same questions many times, because you were ignoring them, if that is railing girly so be it. You are the one who has Railed at anyone who said anything you didn’t like, without even checking any facts, as you proved with Professor Astenah. Denying and Lying it is easy to pretend to be cool, but nothing can save you from looking like a fool.
You do indeed sense correctly, Rabbit is changing the subject yet again, having shown you to be a shamless denialist for Depleted Uranium, and an equally shameless denialist for the dying embers of the official lie about 911, Rabbit would now like to see if you are as perfect a Shill as he predicts, and see you Shill for Torture. But on thread. You are the one who moved a deabte you had been trashed in and pretended it hadn’t happened. As always Rabbit stands simply with his small paw pointing back up the thread, back to where it all has been said. The truth stands tall, and Natty’s story never learned to crawl.
Now careful about whose mental faculties you question when you have patently been trounced and all hands agree, by a Rabbit who may or may not be.
The logic, the reason and the whole case rest without question where I predicted they would and Rabbit never even tried.
Without trying rabbit has had three, no less than three separate people state they have had cause to reconsider their view of 911, due to Rabbit’s small efforts and one of them was a TROLL. What have you got?
Now if it makes you feel good, Rabbit will say you won, then since it is the last thing he says, just like you always ignore everything that was said before, why can’t you believe Rabbit means it. All wrong.,.. silly Rabbit… Clever Natty,
The nasty Vampire was all right, Rabbit was all wrong. Everybody else was all wrong. Natty was all right.
now come and tell everybody how much you deplore torture. Show us you are not a shill. Not that Rabbit thinks you are. Oh no. She’s not a Shill, that’s right folks, she is just a clever, honest American Girl. Tells it like it is. No bullshit here. No way, Natty’ is all right.
YUP
Over to the right thread and you will have your answers, and Rabbit has a lovely one for you. Not here, you are such a messy creature. Rabbit asked permission of relevant people, to use the God Squad Thread for a 911 dust up. You came and were very rude on this thread. Now you are being rude as well as cowardly and slimy, by answering a Torture Issue when it was raised all along as a relevant thread. Rabbit is sick of 911 issues just now, things are moving along nicely in the area anyway, there is no stopping the tide of public awareness on it, so it is not even a particularly pressing thing. More cracks are appearing faster at the moment to, Rabbit has been noting articles a lot without posting them of late, simply because there is little point.
The lie is flat, dead and never even rose to the surface in world opinion.
It is losing ground even in the most deluded nation in the world. What more need a Rabbit do?
Whoops the silly Rabbit forgot. Of course the official lie is true, Rabbit accepts this, he does really.
Thanks to Natalie.
Hooray for Natalie.
All the witnesses were imagining things. All the news sources which interviewed and reported on the various alleged living hijackers were lying and all three World Trade Centers fell down like a deck of cards into their own footprints after about ninety minutes of fire. World Trade Centers are special buildings, so radically different to all other skyscrapers, that a fire is all it takes to make them collapse like a demolition. But without the explosives. A sort of inbuilt redundancy, very American.
Thanks to Natalie rabbit understands this now. A couple of government paid people have said this is what happened, and that this sort of thing is very hard to understand, but that it can be understood by them. Rabbit can’t understand it, and Natty can’t understand it, but these guys understand it and anybody else who says anything different does not understand it even if they say they do. Even if they had qualifications and careers before saying the government is lying, these guys don’t have for much longer after saying otherwise, that just proves they were lying all along. Of course the US Government is a paragon of virtue, and it is Natalie we have to thank for bringing this to the fore.
Hooray for Nat.
Natty, Saddams torture was relevant to Rabbit when Saddam was in power and the USA was supporting him, supplying him with Weapons of Mass Destruction and turning a blind eye to horrors which haven’t been equalled until the USA started using depleted Uranium and White Phosphorous and Napalm on Iraqi towns.
He has had and still has friends in Iraq and out for whom it is more real than your Shill briefings.
Just because Hussein was evil, does not set a bemchmark below which all else is acceptable. You are probably too young to remember how democracy and freedom used to be defined. How Civilized countries acted, but it was not what you are trying to sell.
You are a fine one to talk about not answering things. You have answered as said selected small bits and ignored 95% of what was written. Always trying to debate non starters, for no other reason than to avoid the real issues. You have ignored both the Surviving Alleged Hiajckers and the destroyed evidence from the start, and they were among the thgings you “Ran Away From” and brought to a new thread to try and answer them as if you hadn’t already had everything necessary on both issues. You have had enough to convinve any rational person, and the fact that you are continuing to deny menas nothing, you have never acknowledged anything Natty. The answer to your questions are all long since posted, and you are just playing games. Rabbit will not dance for you, you shall dance for rabbit, like you are supposed to.
Now Rabbit is going to start posting your Torture rants over to the appropriate thread. You can follow, or they will be dealt with in your absence. Rabbit couldn’t care less.
Oh and Natty, let Rabbit warn you in advance, The New York Times, does not pass for a credible source these days, especially about Iraq., That little tale above doesn’t have a chance of being taken seriously if you can’t do a bit better than that.
What sort of a dream world do you live in?
Oh but Rabbit. Wasn’t it the NY Times that led the charge for months on end about all the “atrocities” and “torture” that were committed by the U.S. in anti-grab?
I think you’ve finally said something that resembles reality:
“The New York Times does not pass for a credible source”
Actually, in this case, it was only a reprint of the CNN’s chief’s words, so we’ll go with it. I guess we can trust them to copy and paste.
It does say quite a lot though, that you would apparently put the credibility of a bunch of hastily created conspiracy kook websites over that of a news organization that I think actually occasionally tries to do some fact-checking. I think that’s probably why your murder theory about the towers hasn’t as yet graced its perfect for bird-cage liner pages.
The Times may be ridiculously biased toward the left which causes them to get a lot wrong, but they aren’t COMPLETELY stupid.
Natalie,
You are ignorant. You live in a black and white world to which you have conceded your own conscience. Unable to think for yourself, you rely upon an external ideology of hatred for anyone or any thought that conflicts with your unquestioning belief. In this you are no different than the most deluded Islamic fundamentalist. Those who you believe in are those who would manipulate you for their own ends. Wake up!
Oh, ouch.
Right, lb, I could pretty much say the same thing about you. You’re the ignorant one unable to think enough for yourself to decide whether or not your own govt. intentionally murdered thousands of people on 9/11. Or have you made up your mind? Has Rabbit converted you yet? Get out of the street and choose a side.
You seem not to hesitate to slam others for disagreeing with your world-view. In my case it’s hatred and in your case it’s what….enlightened discussion? The double standard is breathtaking.
The only “hatred” here is coming from those who would falsely charge innocent people with murder by way of an avalanche of out of context “evidence”, and from those who would twist and mold aggressive interrogation techniques and some sophomoric pranks into “torture”, thereby smearing the good name of honorable people trying to prevent the REAL murderers of 9/11 from killing more untold thousands of people, Americans or otherwise.
I’m simply defending their good name. You’re the deluded, fundamental one who has no doubt fallen prey to your own external leftist ideology if you think the name of America and those who defend it isn’t for the most part, extremely good.
You wake up!!
<i>Oh but Rabbit. Wasn
Natalie you did not arrive at the conclusions you have about 911, by thinking about anything, how stupid do you think we are ? Or how stupid are you if you think that what happened when you got those those ideas was called thinking. That was called believing. Blind acceptance. Like all these things you push the one line and ignore all else precisely becasue you cannot and have not thought about anything.
There are no words in the language to describe the degradation of language, the base prostitution of concepts as excuses for sheer Shilling of the official lie. Nothing you say or ever have said has ever varied from the official stamped out of the machine, US government approved version. You are much like a machine except you are not as hard to use as many machines.
This kind of blank total suckup to the JUNTA’s program, you funny clowny thing is the very definition of living whilst not thinking. You have no variation on your theme, and yet you accuse many varied and random, intelligent and articulate, informed and reasonable people of being one tracked, of being locked into dishonest motivations, of ignoring obvious truths, while the whole time what is patently obvious to all and sundry, is that you projecting all your own failings onto all who disagree with you.
The eventual result of this is something like what has happened now.
You would appear by your own reckoning to be extremely open minded, well researched and informed as well as completely honest and of many and various opinions.
You are meanwhile being faced with a multitude of other posters who are all behaving in exactly the same manner, have similar dishonest goals, misunderstandings and who are all very much the same sort of person. No variation among them, since there is no variation between the way you deal with them all. They are all part of a wider conspiracy and are completely irrational, ill-informed and mad.
Rabbit would say the only thing all of us would agree upon, is that you are a dead loss to a rational discussion.
Just as a Shill is meant to be.
Funny that.
Bogus 9/11 truth websites
rense.com
A site that publishes good material and red herrings. The kindest interpretation is that it desperately needs an editor.
Rense is most useful in seeing what the latest nonsense is from the hoaxers trying to disrupt the 9/11 truth movement. The only question is whether they are consciously part of this campaign, or whether their gullibility allows them to be used by the hoaxers. The fact they prominently link to Holocaust Denial stuff is strong evidence they are consciously part of the problem (Rense has numerous promotions on their main page - as of March 2005 - to neo-nazi Ernst Zundel, one of the heroes of holocaust denial advocates). Rense is also promoting an article claiming that Peak Oil is a “zionist conspiracy” which is part of a propaganda effort to counter growing awareness of Peak Oil through publication of articles claiming that petroleum is “abiotic” and therefore unlimited.
A recent article http://www.rense.com/general58/bogus.htm is part of the strange attack on Michael Ruppert on the occasion of his book being published. No one seems to have written a direct attack on the contents of “Crossing the Rubicon,” although the volume of mud being thrown at Mike has increased substantially. These attacks studiously ignore the substance of the book, and make a variety of distracting claims.
Rense claims that they’re working to separate the wheat from the chaff, and get over 1,000 emails per day, making this determination difficult to do at times. Perhaps a good rule to follow is that outlandish claims based on blurry pictures of questionable authenticity that are only sourced to websites should be ignored, not used as the basis to pretend that there’s new “news” about the 9/11 investigations. Websites that operate as an electronic vacuum cleaner sucking up all claims without making even a small effort to differentiate facts from rumors, truths from disinformation are not reliable as news sources, even if some of the articles they post are excellent.
Sounds like some kind of journalism Russian Roulette to me.
Bogus
americanfreepress.net
The “American Free Press” is an ultra-right-wing newspaper that also publishes the “Barnes Review,” a neo-Nazi holocaust denial publication and website that has praised Hitler as worthy of the Nobel Peace Prize and sells a variety of obnoxious books that pretend the Holocaust did not happen. The so-called AFP has created a number of hoaxes (the “no plane crash in Pennsylvania” claim, possibly the “Building 6 explosion” hoax) and has been promoting others, such as “no plane crash at the Pentagon.”
AFP also works closely with KKK leader David Duke (by their own admission).
**********************************
arcticbeacon.com
a website publishing 9/11 articles by Greg Syzmanski
Syzmanski is typically published by American Free Press. Here’s how Syzmanski’s associated website describes AFP:
“American Free Press The grandfather of all alternative newspapers. This insightful publication prints news you can’t get from the mainstream, corporate-driven media. Take a look and buy a subscription.”
Syzmanski’s associated website, Arctic Beacon, states that:
“Accordingly, our intended course is formatted in a monthly, highly colorful news magazine covering but not limited to the following topics . . .
Government Secrets and Cover-ups;
Religious and Spiritual Phenomena;
Unpopular Science;
Suppressed Health Alternatives;
Legal/ Social Injustice and
Environmental Protection
and
Alien Presence on Earth and
UFO Phenomena.”
http://www.arcticbeacon.citymaker.com/arcticbeacon.html
So you can see that what’s going on here, once again - sandwich in typical left causes (environment, alternative health, legal/social injustice) with UFOs and even, ‘Alien Presence on Earth,’ worse than just UFOs.
Here’s another good one in there:
“If you think the Republic is worth saving, then donate to Public Domain Publishing . . . So join us in our fight to save the Republic by pledging your financial support to Voices of Freedom.”
How many leftists do you know that refer to the US as ‘the Republic,’ and describe things as ‘Voices of Freedom? Assuming the site is Libertarian, how many Libertarians are environmentalists and into ‘legal/social justice?’ Thus the site professes to be Left-oriented as far as it’s goals, and lures people on the left to thinking they are being represented, but basically it puts out stories pushing rewritten nonsense about 9/11.
Here’s an excerpt from the latest Syzmanski gem:
“Burn victim, Felipe David, employed by Aramark Co. and Salvatore Giambanco, a WTC office painter trapped in a basement elevator, were both unavailable for comment, but made their explosive testimony - never before released in America - to a Colombian television station in 2002 on the first anniversary of 9/11.”
Both unavailable for comment. This is typical of Syzmanski - instead of real reporting, he rehashes clips from other mainstream stories and then tries to amplify them into the message he wants to send. His goal right now is to push the ‘bombs in the basement’ scenario on 9/11. There are a number of problems with this issue, one being that the first person involved in this, William Rodriguez, also said he saw one of the hijackers scoping the building ahead of time - that ‘hijacker’ turns out to be alive, according to the BBC, and so the story is tainted by this bizarre claim, which Rodriguez testified to the Omission Commission.
Rodriguez is also associated with the bogus RICO suit that promotes missiles on 9/11.
Bogus
From Jim Hoffman, webmaster of wtc7.net (widely regarded as the best “physical evidence” website examining 9/11) and 911review.com (not org):
For all I know Chris [Bollyn] is a sincere (despite apparently embracing some amazing Holocaust revisionist views) hardworking investigative reporter. If that’s true, however, he doesn’t seem to apply a very good critical filter to the information he gathers. For example, he appears to be the source of some of the more deeply ingrained errors in the 9/11 skeptics’ literature, such as the Building 6 explosion myth and the idea that seismic spikes preceded the collapses.
I recently spoke at an event in Los Angeles: “Solving the 9/11 Crime - A Citizens’ Grand Jury”, in which Chris was promoting “In Plane Site”, and presenting dozens of ideas for which I see no basis in evidence. I was so disturbed at the damage he was doing to the credibility of careful research that I spent half my talk debunking the more nonsensical ideas he advanced in his talk before mine.
Bogus
Ha Ha.
Natalie the Shill, thinks that posting this garbage, the usual As-hominem attacks.
You don’t seriously think anyone is going to even bother reading any of that? Even Rabbit only skimmed it. Worthless, ad-hominem, attacks on strawmen argumenst. Been there before, you don’t comprehend Facts, opinions and the separation of the two, proven.
You don’t comprehend the differnec between presenting a selection of genuine news, and reporting the offiical paid for broadcasts which are stock in trade for the MSM you still rely on You are alone, friendless, clueless and completely disrespected.
Rabbit has just been looking at some of the earlier things which you ran away from. Following will be a selection of re-posts. A massive undertaking, largely pointless, beyond showing here what has already been shown there. Mainly to annoy you and show what a lying SHILL you are.
<i>
The first outing of Ramjet was of utmost importance in showing that a known Shill for the Pentagon lies was involved. At that point had you been open minded you would have read all the references given by people. Rabbit just did so last night, went through all the refs and sources given in just the first two pages, and Natalie there is no way anyone could have emerged after that with anything but a conviction that so called Depleted Uranium was an unnaceptable way to wage war.
That is important when related to your claims of having tried to establish the truth. At the very least there had to be sufficient reasons to employ proper tersting of all soldiers, even this you have resisted.
Since you cannot even do this much for your troops, please stop coming off with ridiculous lines like this.
<i>
oops, I meant You and DU were the only things those two threads had in common.
Now if you are not connected to Roger you have to realise that someone was pulling monkey tricks, and what about Pale Rider? the same thing happened and he was very polite. But his info was dynamite, and somebody didn
<i>
To be taken seriously you need to admit that Ramjet is one, he is long since ID
POPULAR MECHANICS.
Rabbit read the Popular Mechanic article when it first came out, and independantly came to all the same conclusions as follows. The most obvious thing to Rabbit was that most of the
This is an excellent site, very information intensive and it deals with the Popular Mechanics article in it
Whit posted the following to you:
<i>
Published on Sunday, October 9, 2005
by The Independent
Tell Us Who Fabricated the Iraq Evidence (P1)
by Norman Dombey
President Bush
<i>Tell Us Who Fabricated the Iraq Evidence (P2)
by Norman Dombey
A clue to the ancestry of these black arts can be found in 1980, when right-wing Republicans wanted Ronald Reagan elected. They publicised a story that Billy Carter, the then President Jimmy Carter
<i>Now it is not normally considered good form or much point in attacking the credibility of the author or publication, but it is by no means a blanket rule. If as in this case it shows the magazine is of a certain bias, and that the author is also,
Another posting you ignored at the time. Look at the date, here you are two months later still struggling, actually raisning things that were dealt with months ago. Maybe you have a short memory, or non at all?
<i>One engineering aspect of the collapse I haven
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