Democrats: It’s the War

More War crimes.

Come and justify this one, cheerleaders for American Values and Democracy versus the Evil Muslim Terrorists.

“More War crimes.”

I wonder if the depth of research for this story was similar to this one.

Don’t believe everything you read, Rabbit.  That goes for all of us.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article10907.htm

Sometimes it douse get caught on film as these marines seem to be cheering on a war crime. As you watch can you guess the crime?
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5365.htm

Many civilian deaths do occur based on the type of assaults and weaponry used. That is a sad commentary on the nature of war. Innocents do die, which is all the more reason to be vigilant in our thought processes to ensure if there is a need to go to war and always ask who benefits.

I have provided a link to the number of both civilian and military deaths from past wars. These deaths are never justified.

War tends to bring out the worst on the homefront as well.

http://www.tampaindymedia.org/bin/site/templates/default.asp?area_2=imc/open newswire/2004/Aug/66251.296875.dat

http://www.london-daily.co.uk/art/abude.htm

Some find these trajedies humorous and the butt of tasteless jokes. Can you find the good taste in this video?

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/bushjoke.mov

I agree that innocents inevitably die in war, that it is necessary to be as vigilant as possible, and that they cannot be justified.

That is the nature of a tragedy. Yet I disagree that the inevitability must require that war is never an option. If all the world felt that way, then it wouldn’t be a problem.

But sometimes, bad guys won’t step out into the open; sometimes deadly force kills the wrong people; sometimes tragic mistakes are made.

But to ignore the bad guys; to tell them if you hide behind a civilian population; to tell them be nice or we are going away; is just wrong.

That is not a justification; just the reality of a world that often hands us Hobson Choices.

Alink to the deaths in world war 2 that I forgot to paste above.
http://ww2bodycount.netfirms.com/

All the more reason Mr. Kline to ask the right questions even now as we are engaged in a war. Did you get a chance to view any of the films above? The one on Fallujah just made television the world over and hit the airwaves today in Britain. The film is not long and shows with documented footage the use of Mark77(napalm) , an internationaly banned weapon, being used in residentials. The other film, which was never shown in our media, exhibits marines using a wounded Iraqi for target practice. An incapacitated enemy out of the fight is not to be pursued with deadly force. It is a war crime. We would not want our soldiers subjected to the same treatment which is why this behavior is discouraged. The trajedies shown are not limited to this war or country alone by any means. War tends to bring out the worst in humanity and should give us pause.
For the record, I do believe in self defense, but the threat from Iraq was just not there. It was manufactured and paints a negative image of America the world over. This will haunt us in the future and our image as a moral authority will forever remained stained. Watch what the world sees and learn why we are viewed as a greater threat than any other.
Believe it or not, Kline, I understand and can even empathize with your world view. But the patterns in the fabric of hisory display the outcomes of wars started on a mountain of deceit. It never bodes well with the aggressor. In the end we will be broke and impotent.

I agree wholeheartedly with Gen Pace when he says unequivocally that sort of behavior will not be tolerated.

And I believe he means it.

Several convictions have already been laid down.

Unfortunately, the punishments are administered at the lowest levels when evidence suggets a condoning at higher levels. Scapegoating a few fanatics will not cleanse this sort of behavior. The officers in charge need to address and answer to the breakdown in command or these actions will only be repeated and possibly on a wider scale. Unfortunately, Fallujah will go down as a war atrocity paralleling the German bombing of London or the RAF firebombing of Dresden. The whole world is talking, why aren’t we listening.

Italy answers to the intelligence charges in their press concerning forged documents that led to war. I think our press could learn a thing or two as they illuminate what was happening on their end as well as ours.
Part 1
http://www.watchingamerica.com/larepubblica000009.html

Part 2

http://www.watchingamerica.com/larepubblica000010.html

No need to worry your evil mind about it Natalie the artcile is well researched and it is accurate, so is this one.

WAR CRIMES

Rabbit has shown himself to be very careful about what he believes Natty which is why you have never estbalished a single point against Rabbit in all the time he has known you.  You have never been able to make a case for the things you believe and despite your beliefs flying in the face of proven reality, you still maintain them unchanged. 

What exactly does a closed minded government propagandist, with a history of avoidance, character attacks and outright lies, have to tell open minded and informed people about sifting the truth from sources?  Get a clue Natalie, you are a known Shill, and the proof is all around us.  Should anyone wonder why Rabbit is being so rude to this person, just ask and Rabbit will direct you to the evidence that she is a liar, a pretender and a SHILL.  NO ordinary Troll this one, she is a genuine SHILL. 

Natty what exactly has the apparent liar, Massey got do do with anything?  Another Natalie strawman? or just changing the subject?

Obviously the article upset Natty, which is why she came swooping into the room to tackle another dangerous truth threatening the JUNTA.  For this reason and to stop the Vapire from sucking the blood out of another issue with her garbage, Rabbit herewith prints the article in full, so Natalie’s innuendos are wasted.  You see Natty you are so committed to attacking the man when you cannot attack the facts, that where there is no man you will just find someone , anyone and attack them, claiming he is ours.  Do you think anyone takes you seriously Natty?  Of course you might attract a troll because you are feeding up their favorite food, lies and unfounded opinions.

11/07/05 “La Repubblica”—-- ROME. In soldier slang they call it Willy Pete. The technical name is white phosphorus. In theory its purpose is to illumine enemy positions in the dark. In practice, it was used as a chemical weapon in the rebel stronghold of Fallujah. And it was used not only against enemy combatants and guerrillas, but again innocent civilians. The Americans are responsible for a massacre using unconventional weapons, the identical charge for which Saddam Hussein stands accused. An investigation by RAI News 24, the all-news Italian satellite television channel, has pulled the veil from one of the most carefully concealed mysteries from the front in the entire US military campaign in Iraq.

A US veteran of the Iraq war told RAI New correspondent Sigfrido Ranucci this: I received the order use caution because we had used white phosphorus on Fallujah. In military slag it is called ‘Willy Pete’. Phosphorus burns the human body on contact--it even melts it right down to the bone.

RAI News 24’s investigative story, Fallujah, The Concealed Massacre, will be broadcast tomorrow on RAI-3 and will contain not only eye-witness accounts by US military personnel but those from Fallujah residents. A rain of fire descended on the city. People who were exposed to those multicolored substance began to burn. We found people with bizarre wounds-their bodies burned but their clothes intact, relates Mohamad Tareq al-Deraji, a biologist and Fallujah resident.

I gathered accounts of the use of phosphorus and napalm from a few Fallujah refugees whom I met before being kidnapped, says Manifesto reporter Giuliana Sgrena, who was kidnapped in Fallujah last February, in a recorded interview. I wanted to get the story out, but my kidnappers would not permit it.

RAI News 24 will broadcast video and photographs taken in the Iraqi city during and after the November 2004 bombardment which prove that the US military, contrary to statements in a December 9 communiqué from the US Department of State, did not use phosphorus to illuminate enemy positions (which would have been legitimate) but instend dropped white phosphorus indiscriminately and in massive quantities on the city’s neighborhoods.

In the investigative story, produced by Maurizio Torrealta, dramatic footage is shown revealing the effects of the bombardment on civilians, women and children, some of whom were surprised in their sleep.

The investigation will also broadcast documentary proof of the use in Iraq of a new napalm formula called MK77. The use of the incendiary substance on civilians is forbidden by a 1980 UN treaty. The use of chemical weapons is forbidden by a treaty which the US signed in 1997

Now can anyone see why Natty would start talking about some never heard of Jimmy Massey, as an answer to the above?

You idiot Jay.  The USA has killed at least 100,000 civilians so far and not even a tenth that many real insurgents.  This is a little over the top as far as accidental killings goes, and you are ignoring the FACT that the military has targeted CIVILIANS from the outset.  They have bombed towns and entirely destroyed whole areas, as well as poisoned the country with Nuclear Waste.  You are committing WAR Crimes and the story is right here and it is is factual, not opinions, unless you consider the opinions of UN leaders and Heads of world Humanitarian Organisations. 

You have not been killing civilians as an unavoidable accident, douchebag, the whole world is seeing as you are comittinmg Genocide.  This is why you have become the most hated country on Earth, not just by Muslims but moire and more by ordinary people everywhere.  You don’t get it you sick little creature, but America’s days as the lans of the free, of democracy and huiman rights is not going, it is gone.  You have almost reached the bottom of the ladder in all areas of democracy, justice, freedom, economic security and you are probably months or a year away from not dissimilar scenes as those which France has now brought upon itself. 

To here an American like you talk about humanity, democracy or justice, is like listening to those same words come out of the mouth of Adolf Hitler.  Do you honestly think all those Germans cheering that particular vicious idiot on, were thinking of themselves as supporting the then greatest war crimes of history?  Of course they didn’t.  Dude you are part of a nation which is irrevecably on a course of abject disgrace in world history.  Nobody wants you to change your mind about anything, Rabbit wants you to support your cause to the end.  Ideally Rabbit would like to see you and people like you branded on the forehead or something, so when the time comes we can round you all up.  You will otherwise slip away with the crowd and pretend you were a resister all along.  We do know your type, Jay.  You cannot admit a small mistake in written forum, how the hell could you ever admit you backed the anti-christ in the end?  I use that image deliberately, because it is the one that your leaders are tossing around, except they claim they are the messiah, and the other side is the anti-christ.  So whether or not you are a lunatic Christian, you will be going to hell in a Basket of Judeo Christian making.

Jay you talk a lot about joining the dots, maybe not you, but we’ll run with it.

You talk about a few low level trials of soldiers who are caught in abuse.  You talk as if it is a few isolated incidents which the All Good American military is taking care of.

Only a week or so ago you had the president of the USA fighting to stop a “NEW” bill passing because it tried to “once again”, outlaw torture by the military.  They are saying from the very administration that Torture is permissible.  They actually sought and GOT exemptions for WAR CRIMES from the start of the IRAQ War.  WHY would thyey be seeking exemptions from WAR CRIMES?  Does that not indicate some pre-planed intention to you?  Hell you’d like to see lots of other people carted off to prison for less evidence than that, whether it be your terror of Drugs or your terror of Terror.  As it happens the exemptions will probably not stand in court anyway, because it has since been shown to have been started upon lies which should nullify any exemptions sought on the basis of said false evidence.  That exemption has lapsed although there was an attempt to get it renewed recently by your military.  That failed.

The Leaders have exempted themselves from Geneva Conventions and every law of humanity, how can you fail to join those dots and still convince yourself any abuses are small scale and localised?  Torture and abuses of enemy combatants are common in war, but there is no avoiding the fact that the USA is practising torture, genocide and various other forms of Internationally repugnant behaviour. 

No amount of screeching about Terrorists is going to exempt you.  The scale and degree of abuse by the USA is clearly endemic, and it is neither justified by the occasional atrocity committed by the enemy, nor is it lessened in it’s intrinsic evil by these.

Rabbit is ready to defend himself and his land too.  In fact he has probably shown himself to be far more ready to do it than a poncy little equivicator like JC. 

One of the things that has made Rabbit the rock of resistance he is, has been his reluctance to commit violence despite an enormous propensity for it.  This means that when the time comes, and Rabbit must step from his corner, he is prepared, committed and absolutely determined that there is no other way.  The fight must be there before Rabbit will come, but if there is a need, Rabbit does the deed. 

The world is full of bullies, rabbit has met many of them.  They are all cowards, every single one of them.  The USA is a coward.  With a military expenditure greater than the next ten nations on the spending charts. With more and bigger weapons especially Weapons of Mass Destruction than all the other countries in the world combined.  With even yet a massive economic power, largely controlling of world economy.  Despite all this, you are surrendering the most basic freedoms and human rights in your own country.  RYou are as a nation obsessed with TERROR, of a half dozen of the weakest nations on Earth in all the above categories.  You are waging unlimited WAR on those small weak nations and claiming the right to use any and all weapons and tactics in the book, yet you screech in outrage whenever the other side even shgoots back, let alone beheads a couple of your discarded cannon fodder.  How can you talk about suppoorting your troops and at the same time support them being poisoned by Depleted Uranium weapons, in far higher amounts than their Gulf War brethren suferred to end up with Gulf War Syndrome?  How JC?

You are therefore a cowardly nation and that is simple as those figures being added up.  Join the dots, dummy.

Bullies always seem stronger but they are invariably brittle in their strength.  One good punch from the Rabbit shut a few down, but always even when the bully was much bigger Rabbit found that determination, the will to go on, was what brought them all undone.  No bully can become a bully and be a truly strong person, because strength comes of adversity.  The strength of the bul;ly is no more than his confidence.  Take that away, and the biggest bully is hollow inside.  The US military strength for all its impressive size and whizzbangery, has been remarkably unsuccessful as a tool of oprression.  Waging limited warfare, that means not leveling and killing everything in sight, is seemingly beyond this big bully of a nation.  The weakest military in the world may have been a good description of Saddams Army by the time 2003 came along.  Today a couple of years later, the whole of Iraq, is out of US control.  With over seventy attacks a day and rising, a relatively weak force has bogged down the US military.  They have no freedom of movement anywhere in the country without huge military escorts which still face attack.  Even the massively fortified Green Zone is suffering almost daily mortar attacks.  If the American military is not britlle for this alone, then what about the recruiting problems, which will lead to a draft?.  What about the fact that combat soldiers are being stoplossed and recycled back into combat faster and faster?.  Even the National Guard are over there trying to stop things getting more and more out of hand.  Your military is being smashed.............from the elite regiments............. to the national guard, join the dots, someone is rendering your country defenceless. 

Another little noticed thing is that many of the best and finest of your officers and soldiers got out early on, they were leary of the direction things were taking already in the first Bush term.  Rabbit knows for certain that many very fine officers who had plans of staying for careers, and even some longer term career officers pulled the pin over the last few years.  Your military is being smashed, for no othyer result than to make your country the most hated on earth.  Now isn’t that a great plan for the future defence of USA.

Has it ocurred to anybody that, with the amount of the worlds resources and wealth which have been concentrated within your shores, (25% of worlds resources for decades now), that America is today like a big fat golen mansion on the hill?  Imagine the multitudes of desperate and poverty stricken, notice they are already moving in France, and they are getting restless, and increasing in numbers next to your white Americans anyway. Noticed the flow of illegals still flooding USA with the tacit support of your administration?  The same admin who is Smashing your defensive capability has opened the borders to foreign invasion, and JC can’t join the dots.  Or can he?  Rabbit predicts he will have a whole other spin on it all.  Or he’ll ignore it.  Too hard so ignore it.  Run away Jay.

Rabbit has shown himself to be very careful about what he believes....

The thing which is certain is that the official story is a lie, and by the way Barbara Olsen looks like she has just turned up alive, so you were right about nobody turning up alive, only until yesterday.  You see that is the thing with lies Natalie, they eventually can only fall. Only truth is here here to stay and even it must suffer constant assault by such as you.

“May the ghost of Barbara Olson haunt you mercilessly”—Karnack, the Magnificent

That is a very good example Natalie.  Rabbit mentioned the story, without committing himself as your quote shows.  You immediately debunked it with only half the facts about the story even then.  Rabbit pursued it and posted the following.

Rabbit first said.....Anybody heard more about the possibility Barbara Olsen was arrested on a German border recently?.. <b>Then he said this shortly after… <b>In the interests of not wasting space, as far as the Barbara Olson possibly being arrested, I cannot find anything which gives enough credence to it to be worth discussing at this point.  This does not say Rabbit rules it out because it is not altogether unnexpected, the best that can be said about it was said here:

.
."what a coincidence, isn’t it?

that the sudden appearance of Barbara Olson, on the non-existent Polish-Austrian border,

happens at the same time that British troops disguised as terrorists are seized, then freed in

a gigantic debacle in Basra, Iraq?

link to www.globalresearch.ca

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/basraSAS.html

let’s forget about the fact that the British spy fiasco PROVES that agents provocateurs have

been blowing up “suicide bombs” in Iraq!!!!!

British and US complicity in fake terrorism is proven!!!!!

not to mention that the Pentagon SHUT DOWN questioning about Able Danger!!!!

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,169991,00.html

so we have CLEAR KNOWLEDGE and complicity in PREVENTING the US Intelligence officers from

arresting Mohammad Atta!!!!

HOW LONG HAS THE STENCH OF TREASON BEEN SPUMING FROM EVERY ACTION OF BUSH-CHENEY???

And here is this “Tom Flocco” character talking about this ridiculous Olson crap. He is a

charlatan and should be horse-whipped.”

Now that looks like a thoughtful and considered response.  When Rabbit finally decided the story had no merit, he made that decision in an informed manner and not as a kneejerk reaction like Natalie proved is all she has.

Rabbit has demonstrated he is careful in what he believes, and Natalie has shown...................nothing as usual. 

Good try Natty bad luck it backfired again eh?

Natty in an attempt to show the Rabbit is foolish used a prime example of Rabbit’s rational approach, what a goosey girl.  Shall Rabbit post some of natalie’s pearls?  There are some rippers and I’ll bet you don’t even realise how hilarious some of your antics have been.  Go on Dare the Rabbit Natty.  Better just ignore this one and attack someones character that’s what you’re best at, and as far as that goes, I wouldn’t give up your day job, assuming this isn’t it.

Bubble bubble toil and trouble Nattys case is a pile of rubble.

How do seven suicide bombers stay alive after the act Natty?

Eidolon Lagomorph -

Sir, I admit your general rule,
That every poet is a fool.
But you yourself may serve to show it,
Every fool is not a poet.

Alexander Pope

Rabbit is in pursuit to the truth, as the official story of 911 has been disproven on all counts.This is not a game of clue, but a road to discovery to expose a criminal elite. But those sycophants who fawn at the feet of big government and remain mesmerized by state propaganda fail to venture into the truth which now is no more than a land laid desolate by lies, inuendo, and a servile public begging for their own demise.
Rabbit is also correct in that not once has anyone so much as ventured to challenge or address the points he has made. That is because most understand the truth but fail to recognize it, for if they did they would be compelled to do something about it. Thus, the nature of the world we live in. People believe they will find safety if they go along with the program in order not to possibly expose themselves as troublemakers. It is similiar to a bandwagon technique. I know this is true because not one word has been uttered by the dissenting side that would profer even the slightest challenege to the truth. they fall into diatribes of liberal or conservative as if this were the cowboys eagles game. They pigeon hole arguments into labeled categories that simplify arguments into manageable targets. A shift outside of this simplicity must make one a conspiritologist. If one refuses the grand states answers to the events of our times, then he has a label applied that can make others feel safe and secure in the popular dogma that they endorse. simplicity, no questions asked, psychotropic drugs, and daily doses of shock therapy keep the masses in line and on target. I ask a question, I recieve a label. That is the nature of the world we live in.
With the Freedom Initiative, the mandatory psychological testing and enforced drugging of all school children, passing in order to make the future generations more pliant to the propaganda, free minds will soon be an endangered species. I am only heartened that the Freedom Initiative has met some resistance at the state level. Our founding fathers warned that the greatest threat to the republic is from within and not from a foreign country. How true. I truly do not expect Mr. Kline or scorp to address state sponsored terrorism or ask difficult questions of the events around them. This is not an attack of character, it just is what it is. For to do so would challenge the illusion that perhaps we are not so grand after all. To pursue the truths of our times is to pursue greatness. I am losing faith in humanity and we will lose ourselves in delusions of grandeur based on little more than fabrications of constructs used for centuries. How does history repeat itself. Our leaders just have to hit the reset button and it will play again.

beowulf,

Beware of Rabbit lies. I have addressed Rabbit’s conspiracy theory and provided refuting evidence in a previous topic, but like you he provided revisionist data and interpretation.

As far as the other difficult issues, since you have already determined that a response would not be forthcoming, I’ll stop putting one together.

I’d sorely hate to disappoint someone with such stongly felt preconceived notions.

oops, strongly felt ...

I ask a question, I recieve a label.

Ah, forgive me. You already recognized your shortcomings in how you are making assumptions.

Apologies for pointing out the obvious.

Seriously, beowulf, if there is a question that I haven’t addressed, please restate it. I think it is obvious to all that I don’t shirk from a difficult question even, or especially, if I have a response that will inevitably be unpopular. Fear is not in my vocabulary. The closest I can come to that is Loathing.

I am honestly unaware of a question to which you await an answer, but it is entirely possible that I missed it. There is so much gratuitous, preening self-gratification slung about on this site that I often find myself tossing it all up in the air and let the passing wind carry away the chaff. If your question got mixed up in all that, it probably got torn away by a particularly strong and odorous breeze.

British troops to join gulf war games
http://news,bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1012044.stm

Us planned attack on Taleban
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south asia/1550366.stm

India:
http://www.indiareacts.com/print_storyfeature.asp?recno=10

PNAC group declaring need for massive military spending, wars against Iraq and Iran desired but the only way to quicken the wanted agenda is with a new pearl harbor.

I have saved and printed every article before, during and after said events. The motives stands only with those who profited. These events were never addressed on this blog, at least not with me. Again, keep it civil and explain who would attack us with double our carrier groups in theater, along with a large British contingent of ships and troops, 40,000 US/Russian troops on the border of Afghanistan, a coming war with Afghanistan stated in the foriegn press, such as the Inda Daily from June 26,2001 and in Janes March 2001 issue, yet no excuse for the attack nor mention of it to the American people? Why attack the US when our leaders needed it the most to justify a war that would rain hell down on the Muslims?  PNAC became operational, a document consigned to the dustbin of history, without said attack. These are valid questions, not theories or chaff to be carried away with the wind.

What a clown Jay is to say this:

Beware of Rabbit lies. I have addressed Rabbit’s conspiracy theory and provided refuting evidence in a previous topic, but like you he provided revisionist data and interpretation.

Rabbit has already pointed out and others have too, that Jay Decline has never successfully refuted anything.  He was invited some time ago to give an example, but he didn’t and can’t.

He has been crushed like a bug on various threads, where it will be seen he plays the same pathetic avoidance and rhetoric games, then reverts to semantics when pinned down on his mistakes and false assumptions, only to run away like the gutless little proc that he is.

Rabbit makes a statement and invites a rebuttal.  JC makes a staement and expects it to be believed.  If Jay had even “once” been right at any time, it seems llikely he would point it out, or have there been so many times, you can’t pick which one JC?

JC is a Hubris filled, gutless poser.  A troll extraordinare.  rabbit has been inviting some friends to look at this troll, they have been and seen and are impressed with him, they have asked if he could be directed their way, their own trolls are quite ordinary.  This is rather a wacky little Troll.  Rabbit begins to see why he is Lumes favorite, he is kinda special quite a posy poncy peky one, and dumber than a rock.

Beowulf

It is plain to see that you have kept a sharp and informed eye out for a while.  Hope we see you adding your views and info more often, there are as you may know some very enlightened and open minded people on this cosy little corner of the Cyber world.  Not too many souls to keep track of, and threads which meander long enough to appeal to “Globetrotters” of the Internet from Oz, Britain, Canada and Germany among others.  We have as you can see a couple of quite entertaining “House Trolls” and at least one permanent government Shill.  Issues are passed along the line at a reasonable rate of knots, so one does not feel overwhelmed by volume and the hopelessness of it all seems thus a little less. 

Rabbit will keep an eye on this thread as JC will need a wack down or two more before he runs away from this one.  But Rabbit can tell he is nearly out of steam, once he gets down to summarising his success and prowess and referring to his general invincibilty and how much you’ve fallen into his machiavellian scheme to undermine someone or somethinmg, he is never quite sure what.  He is sure he has undermined something though. 

Rabbit agrees with this much, he has indeed undermined something, but it was itself a hole to begin with, so he is getting quite deep down there these days.  It is hard to know if he is still down there sometimes, all one sees is the dirt flying up.

By the way Beowulf if one speaks allegorically he can’t hear anything, so it is a good way in itself to enjoy a higher lever of taunting than the Troll can actually participate in.

JAY DeCLINE says:

Seriously, beowulf, if there is a question that I haven’t addressed, please restate it. I think it is obvious to all that I don’t shirk from a difficult question even, or especially, if I have a response that will inevitably be unpopular. Fear is not in my vocabulary.

..........................................................................^^.... .............................................Poor Rabbit.

The Rabbit has just gotten up off the floor.  His sides and tummy hurts.  he wrote the above before getting to this PEARL of JC the CJ.  ..........................  This is the most PERFECT Self Irony ever.  Rabbit must confess, he had previously bestowed the title of King of self Irony on Scoop.  But no.  JC has just Trumped them all.

Rabbit just read it again and he is almost dead from laughter.  Such a mean and sneaky way to injure Rabbit, making him laugh his poor Ears off.

This is so good that Rabbit is off to find others.  Lume owns JC, since claiming him, as a favorite, while Rabbit only has Scorpy.  This was Rabbit’s choice before, but now he looks jealously at Lume’s troll, such a fancy one it has turned out to be.  Clever Lume, how could you have known.  JC up until now you have been more like a caterpillar when Rabbit thought you to be no more than a crippled Moth.  But NO, dear JAY you are a beautiful Butterfly, a veritable gift to internet debate.  No wonder you never reference anything, it all makes sense now......................................Wow...........................Impressed and still hurting a bit the Rabbit hops away to find the others.

Rabbit, what can I say?  You completely took Jay out of context and left out the best part:

Fear is not in my vocabulary. The closest I can come to that is Loathing

Loathing!  What a man, my sweet Flaky Jay-Jay.

We should be more considerate.  It’s not a good day for Republicans in the ol’ Twin Cities.

That part was being left to you Lume, “Fear and Loathing in these times”

It all makes me appreciate just why HST had his ashes blown out a giant spud gun.

Rabbit thought it was actually a Fireworks Mortar kind of thing, Hunter got shot out of.  Rabbit has his own desire to be shot out of a cannon actually.  The problem is Rabbit would prefer to mill the Blackpowder from his own ashes himself.  He is not trusting some other pyro to do it well enough.  Rather than a Star Shell, Rabbit would prefer to be the Propellant for a really wicked big rocket, Rockets are so much more saticfying than Shells.  There would be enough Charcoal left over for a nice big Spider or Golden Willow starburst at the end.

Rabbit set out to explore the old world with a copy of Fear and Loathing and the Great Shark Hunt, in his swag.  Or in his mind, can’t remeber which.  He was over here not that long before he kicked it, and made a pig out of himself as to be expected, what a guy.

I really kind of like the idea of there being nothing left behind but a smoky cloud and the smell of a stinky old fart.  Tres chic.

Retro................. Really

That reminds Rabbit of something actually, Lume may appreciate it and since the thread is meandering, who is a Rabbit to swim against the current?

A few years ago, oldest son had a Billy Cart race for the Boy Scouts.  (I think you call it soapbox derby)

Rabbit had his fireworks Company and his pyrotechnics lab at the time, and we lived in the country, a few hundred Kilometers from here.  Rabbit had a grand idea whist building the Little Billy Cart, of fitting the thing with a huge rocket.  Yes Warner Brothers was on his mind I guess.  Rabbit set up the Little vehicle, which was built light, and flexible but smart, with a fitting which allowed for easy fitting of the rocket.  Rabbit made a really “Big” Rocket.  The biggest Rocket you ever saw.  Rabbit uses traditional fireworkers skills and so it was tube rolled by hand from good kraft paper, and choked with a garrotte and tied to give a crude nozzle.  thecase and nozzle is then formed on a base and using a former and heavy mallet, or Hydraulic press.  The Rocket was not going to fly, it just needed to give thrust.  It was so big, even as a fountain it would have been a bit of thrust, and the course for the race was down hill anyway.  Of course even visually if it did nothing it should be cool thougt Rabbit.  He was of course not putting his then 9 YO son on any vehicle with such a big firework attached this was to be fitted for the DAD’s race, at the end of the day.  Finales were Rabbit’s bread and butter in those days, so it all looked good up to the race.  How big was the rocket?

It was about eight inches in diameter, and generally normal in relative scale to smaller ones, except the length to width is about 4/1 instead of 6/1.  It was a BIG rocket.  Rabbit was very happy for it and fondled it a lot in between and the test Rocket of 3/4 scale had perfomed well.  Six inch diameter Rocket was bigger than anything Rabbit ever saw before even, so he was a bit premature going public with one even that size after one test.

The ten or so Dads were all lined up at the start line of the big hill and crack goes the start gun.  Most of the Buggys got away from the start line a second before Rabbit as he was lighting the fuse with a match.  He could have used electric det but wanted the Warner Brothers effect, the Wily Coyote look to maximum effect.  The Rabbit gave a big push with his legs and lauched the buggy forwrd just as there was this almighty BOOM, and the Rabbit the whole crowd who were standing behind the start line, dissapeared in a huge clowd of Smoke.  Rabbit came hurtling out of the smoke a second later and was simultaneously trying to see behind to see if anyone was hurt and line up the actually airborne buggy for the landing which seemed imminent.  The combination of forward momentum almost co-incided with the arc of the descending hillside, so the landing was for a long time apparently postponed. 

There are two of the other drivers who say Rabbit flew over their heads, but no witness to say which one of the two was telling the truth, and they were at different ends of the lineup.  The witnesses never emerged from the smoke cloud until the race was over.  Rabbit would have won the race easily too, he was way out in front when he landed, but having not had much practice at landing flying Billy Carts, he blew it and broke the One front wheel (It was a Tricycle design for low friction).  This made the Rabbit’s buggy a bit hard to steer and he flipped it about ten meters afetr the landing.

The distance was measured from where Rabbit took off, to where he landed and it was Forty one meters.  Better than the Wright brothers eh?

Rabbit,
I thought you might enjoy this. It is rare to have the grove mentioned in the mainstream.

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/foreignaffairs/story/0,11538,1637387,00.html

beowulf,

As I said, I didn’t see the question for all the chaff, not that your question was the chaff.

Stop taking it so personal.

I’m not sure what your asking, I would greatly appreciate complete thoughts here, but I’ll dive into your references and see what I can see.

The requested URL /1/hi/world/south asia/1550366.stm was not found on this server.

Cwazy Wabbit!

My family owned a cinnabar mine on Monitor Pass.  The store room of the old homestead was full of dynamite and blasting caps, rolls of det-cord, jugs of sulfuric and nitric acid, access to limitless quantities of cellulose plus a few packages of Knox gelatin, and little adult supervision.  Needless to say, in retrospect, I’m grateful my cousins and I managed to grow up with all our fingers and noses.

I’m sorry, I don’t get it.

The first story is about a war game scenario in the Gulf about 11 months before 9/11.

So? I’m glad that our military and government was smart enough to realize the real dangers of the region and to prepare for it. The success of the subsequent Afghan and Iraq war is no doubt partly because of this.

The second story, six months later is about the participation between the various countries in the area in response to a unyielding Taliban government over possible economic sanctions.

So? Same response.

If I am reading you properly, you believe the people of the PNAC (Project for the New American Century), ie neocons, planned all this in advance and created the events to implement that nefarious plan? And you base all this conjecture on a PNAC-authored study that outlined what responses should be taken in such an event?

yes, beowulf, stop taking it so personal.  Jay-Jay not only has difficulty discerning the corn from the chaff, he regularly fails to see the forest for the trees.  Be kind to Jay-Jay.

In the event of an attack. The New Pearl Harbor mentioned in PNAC could have been Chinese or Irish,...response would not have changed. Tony Blair quipped, we could not have invaded Afghanistan without 911, and yet they were preparing to do just that.
The first one was a story printed 11 months prior, but taking place at exactly the same time as the events of 911 unfolded. In other words , Osama would have known that we would be in the best possible locations and position of a counter srtrike.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/1550366.stm

The link will work now. It explains how in March of 2001 Britain was told of how we were planning to strike Afghanistan come October. Most Americans falsely believe the fairytale that we attacked that country because of 911.
The above articles above illustrate that is just not the case. As Tony Blair kindly pointed it out, it offered the justification for it, and not a moment too soon.

And your conclusion then? Are you saying we were planning on attacking regardless of 9/11, or that 9/11 was “orchestrated” to justify it?

If the former, ok. I can accept that. Osama and al Qaeda was a recognized threat before 9/11.

If the latter, well, the former negates the necessity of the later ... and the latter requires that the former doesn’t have the necessary legitimacy to implement.

Yet, as your quoted sources indicate, attacks on Osama and al Qaeda already had sufficient justification.

ie the first WTC bombing, embassies in Africa, USS Cole, there was already a long litany of egregious terrorist acts committed by Osama and al Qaeda.

Granted, that doesn’t disprove the conspiracy (that is an oxymoron - you can never disprove a conspiracy).

But it doesn’t prove it either, or give much credence.

I have no dispute with the facts you present. Only the conclusions you choose to draw from them

I had previously announced among family and friends that I am going to try and get rich in the stock market. I have also revealed my strategy. When a stock has two days of significant price increase, in excess of 10% cumulative, I will wait a few days for the correction, buy at the bottom, sell when it rebounds. I have calculated that if I can net one good trade a week, yielding 3%, I’ll be rich in ten years.

The night before last, I put an order for 100 shares of ATYT at 15.09 with a contingent sell order of 15.5. Yesterday it dropped to 15.08 and my buy order executed. Before the end of the day, it hit 15.53, which is where my sell order executed.

Now, since I prognosticated that, then I should be expecting the SEC to be knocking at my door for rigging the market just so I could make a $54 profit.

Your logic is no different.

Actually it is. John O’neil, the FBI agent in charge of the USS Cole case, was pulled from it when he found the explosives used were of Mossad origin. The tapes of the perpetrators of the first WTC attack were released in which they were recieving their instructions from FBI informants. Listen to them and proclaim that alCIAda was indeed responsible. When I listened to the family of Mr. O’neil, who died on his first day of the job in the WTC on 911, they stated that he was concerned that our government was going to allow a terrorist attack to take place and he was adament in trying to prevent it. Your logic is faulty because you have failed to listen to those closest to said events. Pay attention and take your country back.
If you are arguing that the Afghan war was justified, then why not level with the American public in March of 01 when the rest of the world was let in on the plans. Why wait untill after a significant event to rally support for a preplanned war?
John, as presented on PBS
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/knew/

Thanks Beowulf it is interesting to see the Grove, in MSM.  It is no longer that rare for “Skull and Bones” to get a mention, and both this issues were things Jay and his wackjob delusional brethren called us conspiracy theorists for believing such lunacy.  Now days as with all the truths which catch up to the ignorant sheeple’s delusions, they just refuse to acknowledge it. 

Have you noticed how deafening is the silence whenever JC is challenged to produce something specific.  The Faerless JC cannot even acknowledge a fact which is contradictory to his delusions.  He cannot even acknowledge a challenge to a bombastic claim of having “set people to rights” about anything, let alone do it.

JC is funny and very flexible in his lack of logic, but he is the most abject gutless little twat, Rabbit has ever encountered.  His unjustified arrogance, is no more than Scoop’s. His stubbornness no less than WTH, and his ignorance is equal to Thinky.  Can anyone remember Thinky?  Now that was one dumb son of a bitch. But Jay’s Cowardice is the most stunning aspect about this Troll.

Beowulf, no luck with that url.  Here is some tips for using this site.

Go here, and get a Tiny Url link on your browser, its easy.  This is important because the ITT format messes up urls if they are too long.  Basically if the url gets broken by the width of the comments box, it doesn’t work.  So beware when posting even tinyurls on a line with other things.

the next thing to do, is use the following html code.  The A should be a lower case, it is done thus to stop the elctrons getting confused and making a dummy link.

and paste the short url in between the Quote marks. The text to be linked between the > < and you have a useful linky thing. 

Hope this helps.

Lume, Rabbit had to make his own explosives, even as a kid, so had many close calls then, and later in life.  Things started to get a lot safer when Rabbit had a license and bought commercially produced. 

Rabbit blew himself through a garage wall as a 13 YO, just trying to blow up a big plastic model ship he had built a few years earlier.  WOW was the ship totalled though.  This experience of being transported through a previously solid wall, with no more than a numb feeling in his hands and ears, was probably the moment of pyrotechnic awakening. 

It took many months to build that model Clipper, but in a fantastic second of sound and fire ENERGY, the whole job was obliterated.  There were more pieces than when the model was new in the box.  Mother and little sister who came running out from the house to find Rabbit picking himself up from the ground, couldn’t understand why Rabbit was so happy, and grinning so much.

Favorite stuff is good old fashioned Gunpowder, (Blackpowder).  It isn’t a true explosive, but with a bit of Titanium it can still make the biggest damned BANG you could want.  Titanium Salutes are as good if not better than Flash Powder made from Perchlorates or Chlorates, and they are many times more stable.

The Nitric and sulphuric acids were obviously for Nitro cellulose, unless, was there any mercury?  Mercury and Silver Fulminate are not hard, in fact from the sound of what was in your shed, they could even have been making Nitro-glycerine.  In the old days they relied on cold running streams for temperature control.  No thankyou says the otherwise fairly adventurous Rabbit.

Damn the HTML dispeared.  The electrons saw it and said that is theirs and so took it.  Rabbit will trick the electrons.  Read the following HTML code from top down as if it is from left to right and no spaces.
<a href=
“url"> <
/a>

I saw the Frontline piece on John O’Neill when it was first aired. It was not about how 9/11 was a fake. It was about how O’Neill recognized the danger but hit bureacratic roadblocks, much from Thomas Pickering, but also from FBI director Frees, who had been warned by Pickering about O’Neill’s “sharp elbows”.

Sorry, same ol same ol.

Your facts get refuted, your logic is exposed as lame, and you come back with other data not previously mentioned and revisionist stories.

Get the story right the first time. I am tired of jumping through your ever-changing hoops.

I did a search on the transcript of the PBS Frontline special on John O’Neill.

The word Mossad is not mentioned anywhere.

As far as informing the world in March 01 of the plans for Afghan and the Taliban, where were you then. Mars?

It was on the news every night as America and the Taliban were facing each other down.

Don’t you read your own references??

Jay you are going to get clobbered again, afetr that garbled argument.  You sure don’t get the point of much do you?

Rabbit will return, but has boats to deliver.  Probably someone will be along to crush you like the bug you are before Rabbit returns.  Good Luck.

The thing is evidence of 911 being a fake does not come neatly wrapped in a package which calls it thus.  You bloody clown! The fact of it being a fake is deduced from examining such evidence.  Jesus what a dimwitted Troll.

Fancy in it’s special pompous way, but dumb as shit.

I never said it was in that transcript. I said I listened to his family speak. Does that denote a websight simpleton.  I only familiarized you with the man through PBS. You are not very quick are you? So, no, you have failed to refute John O’neil’s family and failed to make a mockery of his memory.
Second, the only mention of Taliban I saw was their visit to Crawford Texas to meet with george Bush. Any other references are for conditioning of the masses only. If you are remotely suggesting they said before 911, that we were going to war with Afghanistan, then send me a link from ABC, CBS , CNN, or FOX. Since, it was all over, you should have no trouble finding an article that predates 911.
I am not even debating a good Goebbels...this is just another of Hitlers Youth. What a waste of my time.

Warned you Beowulf.  He uses his few braincells looking up big words and trying to think of nothing to say.

JC is a 100% pure blood Troll.  There is NO sign of of any tainted genetics, he has the full compliment of Genes, in fact he has a spare Chromosome, as if you and I thought we had anything special, with our mere 46.

jeez, thinks Rabbit, hope that is the right number.  He’ll take a chance, for fun, rather than check. Do a troll trick by spouting something potentially questionable without checking sources to confirm.

Kind of like Spin the bottle with a troll. ...................... Rabbit might lose that one, but he is wearing a hat.

The one admirable quality I can attribute to Jay is consistency.  It doesn’t matter that he’s consistently goofy.
Goofiness is another quality I can at least appreciate if not admire.

Thank you again, Jay.  For all the mirth and amusement you so unwittingly provide.

I think you’re right about the chromosomes, Rabbit.  There’s undoubtedly some anal-retentive cellular biologist out there who would be finicky about there being 23 chromosome pairs, but screw him.

Kuya,

I agree that what you posted in the Katrina topic was off-topic, and I hope you’ll forgive me for forcing the thread over here. I have left a redirect at the topic. I hope you found it.

I do think that in this time and age, we cannot ignore the world as we have done so in the past. I am also arrogant (??) enough to believe that our system of government can be a shining beacon of hope to the vast majority of the world who have not had the opportunity to bask in that light. So, yes, I do have a bit of missionary zeal in me. A cultural and educational legacy from our Puritan forefathers, no doubt.

Going in after Iraq so soon after Afghanistan certainly stretched our resources, and perhaps we should have waited. But there is some validity in striking when the iron is hot. Ultimately, the success or failure of democracy in both countries is in the hands of their people, not our military. We can provide cover and shelter while warlord mindsets give way to democratic ones, whether that is at a tribal or nationalistic level. To argue that democracy is strictly a modernization force ignores the fact that many old tribal societies were comparatively as democratic as ours is today.

The Mongol Hoards and The Iroquois come to mind.

If democracy succeeds, if it is allowed to succeed internally, rather than be imposed upon them from foreigners, I do not fear a repeat of the 1979 Iranian Revolution in those other countries. If they be truly democratic, secular or otherwise, I believe they will be only as brutal as their electorate allows them to be.

The strictly realist attitude of the Proxy Wars of the Cold War has proven to be inadequate, ill conceived. Certainly, it was in our national interest to have friends, but in our zeal to confront the opposing regime of that era, the future was mortgaged. I think we, as a country and as a government, have learned from that. But, time will tell.

As a shameless reference to my own blog, I have published some thoughts on what I think is, or possibly should be, the future of the region of Mesopotamia, if you care to read it.

http://sufrensucatash.blogspot.com/2005/11/reblogged-redrawing-iraqs-borderscan. .html

I look forward to hearing your response as well.

Take care.

Kucinich clearly stated there was no proof Saddam had WMD.  The presidential campaign website is down, but here is a copy and paste someone out there did to a message board

Kucinich, who led the effort in the House of Representatives in challenging the Bush Administration’s march toward war attempted repeatedly to warn America that there was no basis to go to war: On Sep. 3, 2002, on The News Hour with Jim Lehrer, Dennis Kucinich said, “I don’t think there’s any justification to go to war with Iraq. There’s no evidence that they have weapons of mass destruction. There’s no… there’s nothing that says that they have the ability to deliver such weapons, if they did have them. There’s been no stated intention on their part to harm the United States.” On Sep. 4, 2002, on Buchanan and Press, Buchanan asked “Congressman Kucinich, does not the President have a clear, factual point here? Saddam Hussein is developing these weapons of mass destruction, he agreed to get rid of them, he has not gotten rid of them. Kucinich replied: “Well, frankly we haven’t seen evidence or proof of that, and furthermore we haven’t seen evidence or proof that he has the ability to deliver such weapons if he has them, and finally, whether or not he has the intent. I think that what we need to be doing is to review this passion for war, that drumbeat for war, that’s coming out of the White House, and to slow down and to let calmer heads prevail and to pursue diplomacy….” On Sep. 7, 2002, Dennis Kucinich gave a speech in Baraboo, Wisconsin, called “Architects of New Worlds,” in which he said “There’s no evidence Iraq has weapons of mass destruction, or the ability to deliver such weapons if it had them or the intention to do so. There is no reason for war against Iraq. Stop the drumbeat. Stop the war talk. Pull back from the abyss of unilateral action and preemptive strikes.” See: www.house.gov/kucinich/pr...worlds.htm For more information: kucinich.us For Congressman Kucinich’s Schedule: kucinich.us/schedule.htm To schedule interview with Kucinich or spokesperson: interviews@kucinich.

http://p076.ezboard.com/fpoliticalpalacefrm15.showMessage?topicID=31.topic

Yes, of course. Those thousands of Kurds who were killed with chemical weapons, it really was just someone “passing gas"…

Speaking of “passing gas”, Jay-Jay.  What a stinker!

And thanx for the implicit endorsement of what in the anthropology trade is known as tribal communism.  Fine wine from the Cline Bottle.

It looks as though the story of t he gassed Kurds may be suspect as Iran appears to be the guilty party.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5257.htm

If anyone is interested in details of what happened to the
Kurds in northern Iraq after the1991 war, I suggest reading Martyrs’ Day, by the late Michael Kelly.

It is a pretty good indication of what would happen to a lot of Iraqis if we pull out too soon.

Also

It is laready happening. the Balkanization of Iraq was discussed in the Jeruselem Post in 1987. They wanted to divide the country in three parts to have a divided, weak country with a puppet government friendly to the US. Our presence guarantees the plan will be carried out. Again, if you read a Clean Break written by the neocons in 1996, you will gain a greater understanding of how they plan on subverting Iraq, Syria, and Iran in pursuit of their own agenda. This has nothing to do with democracy and everything to do with controling the region.
Israel is planning on opening the Haifa pipeline through Jordan and possibly reopening a previous pipeline through Syria. Their motives are clearly stated in their own writings and no amount of propaganda will cloud the truth.

Pipeline:
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0825-03.htm

An example of encouraged and government chaos:
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/world/ny-woiraq204434324sep20,0,3287398, ,print.story?coll=ny-worldnews-headlines

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2005-09/19/content_3514065.htm

This outrage of carrying out terrorism to pit one group against the other is case in point.

Balkanization of Iraq has always been the plan.

Divide and conquer. Conquer and divide.

The divisions between .... us and them, liberals and conservatives, controlled opposition .... serve the same purpose for the greedy and power seeking warmongers.

Thesis. Antithesis. Synthesis.

Gazoogle -

Thanks for the input.  Neither one of your links appears to be valid, or current, or whatever.  There is, however, a copy of Kucinich’s speech, “Architects of New Worlds”, September 7, 2002, delivered in Baraboo, Wisconsin, at:

http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0911-08.htm

In the speech, Kucinich does state that there are no WMD in Iraq, and he calls for “the cessation of the regime-change policy”.  Both points are in direct contradiction of the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998, for which Kucinich voted in favor.

Coincidentally, UNSC Resolution 1441, November 2002, followed Kucinich’s speech by exactly two months.  The UN Security Council voted unanimously, 15-0, for R1441, and R1441 states, in part:

UN Security Council Resolution 1441, November 07, 2003

Recognizing the threat Iraq’s non-compliance with Council resolutions and proliferation of weapons of mass destruction and long-range missiles poses to international peace and security,

Recalling that its resolution 678 (1990) authorized Member States to use all necessary means to uphold and implement its resolution 660 (1990) of 2 August 1990 and all relevant resolutions subsequent to resolution 660 (1990) and to restore international peace and security in the area,

* * * * *

Deploring further that Iraq repeatedly obstructed immediate, unconditional, and unrestricted access to sites designated by the United Nations Special Commission (UNSCOM) and the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), failed to cooperate fully and unconditionally with UNSCOM and IAEA weapons inspectors, as required by resolution 687 (1991), and ultimately ceased all cooperation with UNSCOM and the IAEA in 1998,

Deploring the absence, since December 1998, in Iraq of international monitoring, inspection, and verification, as required by relevant resolutions, of weapons of mass destruction and ballistic missiles, in spite of the Council’s repeated demands that Iraq provide immediate, unconditional, and unrestricted access to the United Nations Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission (UNMOVIC), established in resolution 1284 (1999) as the successor organization to UNSCOM, and the IAEA, and regretting the consequent prolonging of the crisis in the region and the suffering of the Iraqi people,

Deploring also that the Government of Iraq has failed to comply with its commitments pursuant to resolution 687 (1991) with regard to terrorism, pursuant to resolution 688 (1991) to end repression of its civilian population and to provide access by international humanitarian organizations to all those in need of assistance in Iraq, and pursuant to resolutions 686 (1991), 687 (1991), and 1284 (1999) to return or cooperate in accounting for Kuwaiti and third country nationals wrongfully detained by Iraq, or to return Kuwaiti property wrongfully seized by Iraq,

* * * * *

1.  Decides that Iraq has been and remains in material breach of its obligations under relevant resolutions, including resolution 687 (1991), in particular through Iraq’s failure to cooperate with United Nations inspectors and the IAEA, and to complete the actions required under paragraphs 8 to 13 of resolution 687 (1991);

2.  Decides, while acknowledging paragraph 1 above, to afford Iraq, by this resolution, a final opportunity to comply with its disarmament obligations under relevant resolutions of the Council; and accordingly decides to set up an enhanced inspection regime with the aim of bringing to full and verified completion the disarmament process established by resolution 687 (1991) and subsequent resolutions of the Council;

Continued -

So, with the entire UNSC and apparently all the other members of Congress believing that there were WMD, whatever provoked Kucinich to change his mind and declare that there were no WMD?  Just curious. 

For over two years, I have been looking for a confirmed quote from a real live American politician dated before April 2003 stating that Saddam had no WMD.  At one time, Kevin Drum, then writing as Calpundit, undertook a major search for this type information.  The only two people, other than overt ant-war types, that Drum could find that said Saddam had no WMD before the outbreak of hostilities were Vladimir Putin and Scott Ritter.  Interestingly enough, both Putin and Ritter were subsequently shown to have benefitted from the UN’s Oil-for-Food scandal.

So, I certainly appreciate your help in finding the quote.

Rabbit is pleased to see that Lume, Beowulf and Gazoogle are keeping up the pressure on the Silly ones.  God help the internet if people like Scorpy and Jay are ever free to post there claptrap unchallenged on sites such as these.

Thankfully they spout such twaddle, that there is always likey to be someone who will not be able to let such blatant crap sit unmolested.

Can Rabbit not swap his Troll for Lume’s?  To be honest the gloss on Scorpy is fading a bit.  His posts are just so boring.  He uses so many issues, almost all of which need to be challenged individually, to illustrate his points, which themselves don’t stand up to scrutiny.  As such his posts are quite useless to rebut, unless one wished to open aboput twenty other cans of worms simultaneously.  Sensible and honest people try to go the shortest most logical path to establish a point.  Not Scorpy, his defence lies in spreading so much seed to the wind, that no sane person is going to waste time tackling it point by point because it has just too many assumptions and NEVER a single reference. 

Interesting Scorpy mentions Kevin, Rabbit has seen Scorpy over there, Rabbit was sure that it was Scorpy a few times spreading his usual feast of Bullshit, and getting the flogging he deserved, from a very feisty bunch, which seems to populate Washington.

Rabbit is feeling too lazy this fine sunny saturday morning, to want to wade through the Scorpisms, which is really his duty, but Rabbit is feeling lazy, with a Pina Colada and a wee peace pipe in hand, Rabbit is going to read today, and post not much.  He will also be spray painting the little yellow sailing dinghy for his oldest son, it gets it’s last coat today.
Son has had to help restore the little sailing dinghy, so he knows how a boat is made.

Next week Rabbit’s Son learns to sail.

All men, and Rabbits should learn to sail.  It is even better than killing people, for making a man of you.  OR Rabbit.

He and his mate can sail a couple of years on the Mirror, and then Rabbit will get a Catamaran, Rabbit like sailing Cats, they go fast and Rabbit likes to go fast as the wind.  It is frustrating for rabbit to sail monohulls, it always feels like the wind is going so much faster. It gives a push then flys away.  With a catamaran, the boat flys with the wind.

This Article is a must read

It’s clear that the military never needed to use napalm in Iraq. Their conventional weaponry and laser-guided technology were already enough to run roughshod over the Iraqi army and seize Baghdad almost unobstructed. Napalm was introduced simply to terrorize the Iraqi people; to pacify through intimidation. Cheney, Rumsfeld and Negroponte are old-hands at terrorism, dating back to their counterinsurgency projects in Nicaragua and El Salvador under the Reagan Administration. They know that the threat of immolation serves as a powerful deterrent and fits seamlessly into their overarching scheme of rule through fear. Terror and deception are the rotating parts of the same axis; the two imperatives of the Bush-Cheney foreign policy strategy. Napalm in Falluja

The US also used napalm in the siege of Falluja as was reported in the UK Mirror (“Falluja Napalmed”, 11-28-04) The Mirror said, “President George Bush has sanctioned the use of napalm, a deadly cocktail of polystyrene and jet-fuel banned by the United Nations in 1980, will stun the world…. Reports claim that innocent civilians have died in napalm attacks, which turn victims into human fireballs as the gel bonds flames to flesh…Since the American assault on Falluja there have been reports of ‘melted’ corpse, which appeared to have napalm injuries.”

“Human fireballs” and “melted corpses”; these are the real expressions of Operation Iraqi Freedom not the bland platitudes issuing from the presidential podium.

Dr. Khalid ash-Shaykhli, who was the head of the Iraqi Ministry of Health in Falluja, reported to Al Jazeera (and to the Washington Post, although it was never reported) that “research, prepared by his medical team, prove that the US forces used internationally prohibited substances, including mustard gas, nerve gas, and other burning chemicals in their attacks on the war-torn city.”

Dr Shaykhli’s claims have been corroborated by numerous eyewitness accounts as well as reports that “all forms of nature were wiped out in Falluja”…as well as “hundreds, of stray dogs, cats, and birds that had perished as a result of those gasses.” An unidentified chemical was used in the bombing raids that killed every living creature in certain areas of the city.

As journalist Dahr Jamail reported later in his article “What is the US trying to Hide?”, “At least two kilometers of soil were removed……exactly as they did at Baghdad Airport after the heavy battles there during the invasion and the Americans used their special weapons.”

A cover up?

So far, none of this has appeared in any American media, nor has the media reported that the United Nations has been rebuffed twice by the Defense Dept. in calling for an independent investigation into what really took place in Falluja. The US simply waves away the international body as a minor nuisance while the media scrupulously omits any mention of the allegations from their coverage.

reported on his recent talks in Washington. There was a perceptible shift in attitude. Military action was now seen as inevitable. Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy. The NSC had no patience with the UN route, and no enthusiasm for publishing material on the Iraqi regime’s record. There was little discussion in Washington of the aftermath after military action.

-Downing Street Minutes

Rabbit;

You’ve got my permission to slap down Jay anytime you feel like it.  I’m not jealous.  Scorpy is such a tedious old bore though.  I think it best if we just talk about him behind his back, so to speak.  El que esto chingador y chingada tambien.  Solo solamente.  He just eats up the editorial page of the Moonie Times and all the freeper chatter and regurgitates it here.  It’s a service really.

Yesterday, my wife and I were privileged to attend the Veterans Day observance by the Military Officers Association of America.  In addition to honoring those whose service has made our lives more secure for decades, we heard the firsthand accounts of a Captain and a Master Sergeant and their interaction with the people of Iraq and Afghanistan.

Much is being done on a daily basis to help the ordinary citizens and their children as they attempt to learn the responsibilities of self-governing. These acts will be favorably remembered.  This is the face of America which is not seen on our six-o’clock news (or foreign broadcasts).

The gains already made in this difficult undertaking are measureable and substantial. When we hear urging for a swift pullout, we need to look past the political noise and seek out the real story from real people.

We owe it to those who have served, to the people of the region, to our country and to ourselves.

Amen, brother.

scorp,

I couldn’t find the quotes you were looking for, but there is plenty of the opposite.

All of these were said during the Clinton Admin:

Bill Clinton: “If Saddam rejects peace, and we have to use force, our purpose is clear: We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction program.”

Madeleine Albright, Clinton Secretary of State: “We must stop Saddam from ever again jeopardizing the stability and the security of his neighbors with weapons of mass destruction.”

Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Advisor and Classified Document Thief: “[Saddam will] use those weapons of mass destruction again as he has ten times since 1983.”

Harry Reid: “The problem is not nuclear testing; it is nuclear weapons. ... The number of Third World countries with nuclear capabilities seems to grow daily. Saddam Hussein’s near success with developing a nuclear weapon should be an eye-opener for us all.”

Dick Durbin: “One of the most compelling threats we in this country face today is the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction. Threat assessments regularly warn us of the possibility that...Iraq...may acquire or develop nuclear weapons.”

John Kerry: “If you don’t believe...Saddam Hussein is a threat with nuclear weapons, then you shouldn’t vote for me.”

John Edwards: “Serving on the Intelligence Committee and seeing day after day, week after week, briefings on Saddam’s weapons of mass destruction and his plans on using those weapons, he cannot be allowed to have nuclear weapons, it’s just that simple. The whole world changes if Saddam ever has nuclear weapons.”

Nancy Pelosi: “Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology, which is a threat to countries in the region, and he has made a mockery of the weapons-inspection process.”

Sens. Levin, Lieberman, Lautenberg, Dodd, Kerrey, Feinstein, Mikulski, Daschle, Breaux, Johnson, Inouye, Landrieu, Ford and Kerry in a letter to Bill Clinton: “We urge you, after consulting with Congress and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions, including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq’s refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs.”

Jay,
Your quotes are so very true which is why I have continually berated both sides of the aisle for being corporate whores for the military industrial complex. They are all complicit in the spread of disinformation and lies. Instead of rallying against the war, many just talk about how they would have fought it differently. I lost all faith in our government and see no hope in the controlled opposition party called the democrats. We the people have not been represented by either party who, with oversight committees and vast sums of money, could not figure out what internet blogs had been saying all along....no WMDs exist in Iraq.
Another reason Valerie Plame was outed was due to her group preventing a shipment of VX gas to Iraq in order to validate the lies that got us there. If you want to cheerlead those lies Jay, then I would like for you to parade with a straight arm salute everywhere you go in order to identify to the world who you are and what you stand for....the destruction of democracy and the republic for which our forefathers fought for. What a low standard you accept from your government.

This quote might help to understand the world’s ambivalence to Colin Powell’s UN assertions about WMDs:

The genius of you Americans is that you never make clear-cut stupid moves, only complicated stupid moves which make us wonder at the possibility that there may be something to them [which] we are missing.
Gamel Nasser

republicans democrats whores
pot kettle black

mostly

Rabbit is sorry to teel WTH this, but you are being duped you poor sod.  So a couple of tame soldiers got up and told you how much they are helping the Iraqi’s.  What a sad case you are to need to twist your mind to such delusions on no more than brief propaganda exercise.  You really think that was just a spontaneous demo, of course you do.

Well don’t let the realisty get in the way of a warm fuzzy story.  It must make all those attacks by insurgents just so much harder to understand, eh?  Oh of course, you think they are terrorists.

Ten FACTS on the ground which show you have been duped, on veterans day.

These are stories by Veterans of Iraq, they are not feel good bullshit.

This shows what monsters you have become

So does this.

AND Rabbit’s small empty vessels...... This shows that you are being overtaken .by many others who are seeing the truth.  That hole in the ground you wankers are living in, is getting less and less populated. 

The best woke up first.  The longer it takes for you to accept the lies you have been living, the lower the humanity you own.

Now the even more disturbing thing which you should be aware of WTH, is that JAY DeCline, the lowest common denominator, has just dubbed you Brother.

Hee Hee Hee....................^^...........................

Rabbit is going to keep posting FACTS JC until you go away or grow a brain.  So don’t go saying “No matter how many facts I ignore, they just keep on bringing up more.”

Because, you ignorant Troll, the FACTS just keep on coming, and you are just gonna have to keep on running.  deny away, dumb little Jay.

The support for Bushler is 36% and Shrinking.

AND Rabbit’s small
empty vessels...... This shows that you are being overtaken by many others who are seeing the truth.  That hole in the ground you wankers are living in, is getting less and less populated. 

another one for good luck.

When even the Mormons are starting to doubt,
things are looking bad.

You clowns wouldn’t recognise impending doom of course, so you should be going under the wheels of history any day now.  When the whole shooting match goes kapow, don’t you deluded clowns go sneaking away now will you.  Rabbit expects JC and Scorpy and WTH to be here on site the DAY after the Deck of Cards collapses, and admitting your failures.  You will be expected to admit your defeat when the JUNTA falls and when the immense war crimes and treason become MSM fare.  Of course we all know that with your cowardice, and ability to delude yourselves you’ll be pretending you were one of us all along, you will have to change your names, and even then, you will be obvious to the real veterans of truth, we’ll find you.

Loony Booty -

Gamel Abdel Nasser was a Soviet stooge.  Lots of that going around.

scorpy, Nasser was a leader in the non-aligned movement and throughout his rule played the Soviets against the West and vice versa.  But I guess in your “if’n youse ain’t wit’ us, yer agin’ us” mentality, he qualifies as a stooge.  I’m beginning to believe the ad homina backstab is the only tool in your belt.  By that I mean you dismiss an idea by denigrating the authority and character of its author (you thought it was just name-calling, didn’t you?). 

I’m not a great defender of Nasser.  He was a tyrant and a fool in many ways.  His willingness to suppress both the Egyptian Communist Party and the Muslim Brotherhood significantly contributed to the problems we face today.  But he wasn’t a complete idiot and one would be advised to make the effort to understand his role in history and his skills in diplomacy.

Talk about Soviet stooges

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2637.htm

Good find, beowulf.

Primakov was laughing about it because he’s getting paid a big fee to do it. He doesn’t care, of course. Primakov speaks beautiful English, as you would expect a former head of the KGB to do. When he was asked what is this CAPPS II program really about, because obviously even “terrorists” could have credit ratings.

Primakov said that this is one of the steps now being employed along with NICA and new identity upgrade features which are coming to your driver’s license. It is being used to get the people used to new types of documentation and carrying new types of identity cards pursuant to the United States instituting a formal policy of internal passports.And he actually used the words “internal passports.”

It’s like he said and he was pretty knowledgeable. When the NICA (National Identity Card Act) gets passed, the Posse Comitatus Act gets overturned, a few other pieces of legislation yet to be proffered get passed, the White House will have more control over the American people than the Kremlin had over the Russian people when Stalin was alive. He said that and then he laughed.

What Primakov finds funny are what he calls these “right wing flag wavers” that were so anti-communist and now they’re supporting a state policy of internal passports.

The irony is deafening.

Old right wing farts—turn up your hearing aids for the irony is deafening.

So funny I forgot to laugh.

I’m not a great defender of Nasser.  He was a tyrant and a fool in many ways.  His willingness to suppress both the Egyptian Communist Party and the Muslim Brotherhood significantly contributed to the problems we face today.  But he wasn’t a complete idiot and one would be advised to make the effort to understand his role in history and his skills in diplomacy.

In that case, I am sure that I am a greater defender of Nasser than you are.  Nasser was trying to establish a place in the world for Egypt and for Muslims, independent (as far as possible) from the machinations of the great powers.  I have absolutely no problem with that idea, but I have problems with some of his other ideas and some of his tactics. 

Nasser’s greatest failure was in not making peace with Israel in the late 1940s, when it could have made a transforming change in the Middle East.  Egypt was the strongest Arab state, and think of the possibilities if Egypt and Israel had worked together for peace, security, economic development, and social development.  That was not to be, because Nasser was not foresighted enough and confident enough to make it happen.  So we finally got a bedraggled and imperfect peace in 1979, well after Nasser was dead.

The Ikhwan (al-Banna’s organization, not the Sa’udi Ikhwan) was the parent group of Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and al-Qa’eda, among other spinoffs.  So the Muslim Brotherhood splintered into the third most potent terrorist effort in modern history, following the fascists and the communists. 

So, you think Nasser was wrong to suppress the Ikhwan and the communists in Egypt?  Nasser was at least a hell of a lot smarter than you are.  The fighting in the southern tier of the old Soviet Union from roughly 1980 to the present, except for the current Coalition efforts in Afghanistan, is a product of the two terrorist philosophies that Nasser suppressed in Egypt.  If Nasser had not suppressed these terrorists, communist and Muslim, in Egypt, Nasser would have been dead, the Ikhwan would have been dead, the Egyptian communists would have been dead, and the KGB resident would have been in charge in Cairo, barring only the possible intervention of the USA and NATO.  Nasser understood that, at some level, and acted accordingly.