more…................LOOK AT THE DATE!
<i>
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 10, 2005 at 8:51 PM
How exactly does Natty claim Rodriguez is a hoax?
Let us have a look at what we looked at once before.
An introduction to William Rodriguez, Natalie.
——————————————————————-
WORLD TRADE CENTER RESCUE HERO SUES BUSH AND OTHERS UNDER RICO STATUTE,
ALLEGES WILLFUL COMPLICITY IN ATTACKS THAT KILLED 3,000.
By Margaret Atheling Rowe
PHILADELPHIA, PA, OCTOBER 22, 2004
On September 11, 2001, William Rodriguez, a maintenance worker at the World Trade Center in Manhattan, single-handedly rescued fifteen people. The only employee with the master key to the North Tower staircases, he led firefighters up the stairs, unlocking doors as he went, aiding in the evacuation of hundreds of additional people who, but for his efforts, might have perished. Although his job description did not include saving lives, Rodriguez re-entered the building three times after the first plane struck, and was the last person to exit the North Tower alive. He survived the collapse of the North Tower by diving beneath a fire truck to avoid the avalanche of concrete and steel. After onsite treatment for his injuries, Rodriguez plunged right back into rescue efforts at the site. At dawn the next morning, Rodriguez returned to Ground Zero from his home in Jersey City, to continue to aid in rescue efforts.
Later, Rodriguez became an unofficial spokesman for survivors, among other things helping to secure an amnesty for undocumented aliens, many of them Latinos, and in the creation of the World Trade Center Memorial Fund. Although he lost his job of 19 years and his means of livelihood
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 10, 2005 at 8:54 PM
Attorney Berg acknowledges that Rodriguez
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 10, 2005 at 8:55 PM
The truth is that there is no definitive evidence that there were any Arabs on those planes, and even less proof concerning the supposed identities of the alleged hijackers.
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 10, 2005 at 9:01 PM
Knowing as we do that Natty ignores so much of the relevant stuff Rabbit posts, this doesn’t mean she doesn’t ignore others’ too. John again, who was of course ignored.
<i> hear a lot of silence on all that 9-11 evidence I posted yesterday.
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
CAPTAIN KARIN DESHORE
INTERVIEW DATE NOVEMBER 7 2001
First collapse:
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 10, 2005 at 9:10 PM
Whit posted the following:
<i>Natalie,
This site might be useful
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 10, 2005 at 9:33 PM
The following is reposted to show how balanced rabbit is. The is the only useful or intelligent thing Natalie has contribiuted, but everyone like it.
Hooray for Natalie…...........
<i>Go to tinyurl.com, David, to shorten those links. I think the problem arises when the link is longer than the width of the entry box.
It occurs to me that the Iraqis, even after all they
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 10, 2005 at 9:42 PM
Natty tried this:
<i>
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 10, 2005 at 9:47 PM
Rabbit replied:
<i>Natalie once again shoots her as yet earthbound plane with another hole. (Rabbit does not like to think of Natalie shooting her feet off)
It should be noted that the debris of flight 93 is a very small piece if evidence and it is best seen in light of a lot of other evidence, most of which natalie is stedfastly refusing to acknowledge. Now since you wish to look at the facts of Debris from flight 93, Rabbit will be pleased to oblige. The PM article has been thoroughly dealt with above. It was also noted that another tactic of the PM article was to do what you are doing Nat, Dissemble over selected details and ignoring the main deatils which actually led to the conclusion they were trying to debunk.
Rabbit did not mention any engines or fans anmd his sources certainly did not give much prominance to the details you are mentioning. It is a fatal mistake to quote PMs quotes of Rense, as many of their quotes about Rense articles were not accurate. You compound your ignorance of what you are talking about over and over with your flawed comprehension of what Rense is. The site is simply a NEWS site. It links to NEWS, from other sources. Any reference to anything Rense says, is spurious. The site Rense.com, has a disclaimer printed on it which makes you lokk like a prime dimwit everytime you or anyone says Rense makes any claims. You quote what other sources say about something without ever even having established that the thing exists. No gullible girls around here, of course.
The following is a list of sources which all detail the ACTUAL debris and there was as you will see some at 8 miles distance. So all you have done with your last post is to prove once again that the official Theory is a LIE.
The engine and debris was found
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 10, 2005 at 9:48 PM
<i>This is your guy Natalie, even your own witnesses working against your theory.
In a morning briefing, state Police Major Lyle Szupinka confirmed that debris from the plane had turned up in relatively far-flung sites, including the residential area of Indian Lake. Investigators appealed to any residents who had come across such debris, in the surrounding countryside or even in their yards, to contact them, emphasizing that even the smallest remnants could prove to be important clues.
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 10, 2005 at 9:49 PM
<i>Anyway, it is established that debris was found at least 8 miles from the crsh site of flight 93. No? OK Some more.
It
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 10, 2005 at 9:51 PM
<i>
Natalie, the Rabbit is a liitle bored and so has decided to crush your last post like a Grape.
Theory 1 - It blew there (The NTSB/FBI Story).
Comment: Wind speed that day was 9 knots (or 10.4 MPH). Video from that morning shows a very light breeze.
The NTSB theory is that a lot of lightweight paper-like material survived the crash fireball and escaped the 35 foot deep, wet mud crash site and floated at 10 mph 2 - 8 miles over more wet, muddy fields. And how did clothing, books and large engine parts blow there again? And is there stuff 2 to 8 miles away at the Pentagon crash? Or another crash you can think of? Oh yea, at Lockerbie and Flight 800 there was (both had in-air explosions).
Remember, the debris is NOT continuous. They didn
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 10, 2005 at 9:52 PM
The following gives an idea of the inderlying, snide innuendos which are the Bat’s stock in trade, and the Rabbit’s pleasant and easy going nature.
<blockquote>Rabbit,
I
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 10, 2005 at 9:55 PM
Now sad as it is, Rabbit must say that even on the one time The Natty did a good thing (See above), she was yet doing a bad thing.
The Tiny url to which she lately linked was noted by Dave and Rabbit as follows. pertinant it is because it is the source of Rabbit’s occassioanl refernce to her propensity for using human shields for her own protection.
<i>Quoting Natalie :
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 10, 2005 at 9:58 PM
We’ve been around the Blackberry Bush many times with Natty, and this is as relevant now as then.
<i>Rabbit is a man first an Australian second.
I will not follow a corrupt and evil cause even if is has my country
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 10, 2005 at 10:22 PM
I think you may be just trying to run up the post count, Rabbit. :~)
Why don’t you simply give a link to the original thread and let people read the whole thing for themselves? You’re leaving out a lot of context, and only confusing things, no doubt to your advantage. You seem to be trying to say that I ignore certain things. But when I do address something, you say “that little detail is not important….why are you focusing on it?.....you haven’t proven a thing” (paraphrasing)
One thing that people need to know when reading this thread and others I’ve commented on, is that I simply don’t have a lot of time to devote to addressing and debunking or agreeing with everything that’s presented. I actually admire someone who is self-employed and has arranged it so they apparently have tons of time between tasks to debate on the Internet. I am sadly not fortunate enough, or perhaps not clever enough to be so employed.
However, I do consider myself superior in one respect, and that is in the ability to discern quality information and reliable sources from mere pretenders. To wit: (more from oilempire)
infowars.com
The Alex Jones radio show seems to be an electronic vacuum cleaner that publishes virtually any claim regardless of whether there is real evidence or not. Some of the hoaxes pushed by this show include his claim that Gary Webb was stalked by government agents on his balcony before he was supposedly murdered (in reality: there wasn’t a balcony on his house and his family is completely convinced he really did commit suicide).
Other great Jones hoaxes include:
Support for key elements of the “planesite” film, his efforts to give them credibility.
Promotion of the Stanley Hilton lawsuit (the only named plaintiff bases his legal strategy to sue the Bush administration on his being fired from Nieman Marcus department store for passing out anti-war literature). Mr. Hilton used to be an assistant to Senator Bob Dole.
April 27, 2005
www.prisonplanet.com/articles/april2005/270405newfootage.htm
New Flight 175 Footage: No Pod?
Since other websites and 9/11 truth organizations began talking about the pod, this website has attempted to be balanced and air the views of both sides.
Nonsense. Infowars was pushing this long after a lot of people proved 1000% this was a hoax. In early May 2004, the 9/11 Truth Alliance list had a photo posted to it by a member that clearly showed the “pod” was a myth, a bad joke - a photo that wound up on the cover of “In Plane Site” (a “coincidence” that the movie’s makers not attempted to discuss in their pathetic refutations of the extensive reviews by the 9/11 truth movement—there is no innocent explanation for that).
Infowars is many things, but “balanced” is not one of them. Perhaps they are merely gullible, incompetent and a patsy for cointelpro disinformation (if they are sincere). People making a couple of mistakes that are corrected is one thing—but systematically promoting hoaxes and lending credibility to people making up nonsense that is used to discredit us is not acceptable, even if they have nice rhetoric…....
......Infowars has been one of the worst examples of promoting fake evidence.
Now this scathing critique of one of Rabbit’s favorite “news” sources comes from people basically friendly to the general Prisonplanet POV about believing that official stories are mostly LIES. Can you imagine if a genuine news professional schooled in source and fact checking, whos career depended on “getting it right”, somehow decided to analyze Jones’s work? As Liz might say…..“Oh dear”.
Posted by Natalie on Dec 11, 2005 at 12:08 AM
R«bit is merely ignoring the Natty actually, your psots have ceased to be relevant and after several months of your failing to make even astart on intelligent debate, I’m sick of you. Nobody else gives a shit either, you are irrellevant and just won’t face up to it.
Never has the Rabbit said this to anyone, but here to you, but I will not even waste my time reading your posts Natty, you ceased to be releavnt a long time ago. too late to dribble oin about issues long dead, you ran away after the last post above, so waht good are you, just because you pop up like a disease on anew thread? Rabbit doesn;t care about you anymore and nor does anyone else it seems.
Rabbit may yet post some more of the old things you ignored, as a “cheap exercise in self justification”. He has actually earned the right to do so, slimy toad..
In the meantime, he is ignoring your babble, out of spite. If anyone else decides it is worth a reply, like it has maybe moved someone a bit, Rabbit will happily re-engage the issues you fiddle around peripherally with. In the meantime, Rabbit will persist in the current strategy of ignoring you as a complete robot shill. Whilst occasionally posting ridicule of you, as he sifts through your nonsense while preparing a display out of the bones of your mostly ad-hominem attacks,. You are goping to be a star attraction in a Museum, Cow….......Bat. Moo Moo Flap Flap.
Oh and Natty, who doesn’t read much of anything anytime, is ignoring three months of details relating to issues she now re-invents.
IT HAS ALL BEEN DEALT WITH!
Nothing changes the fact that you RAN AWAY from this debate after covering all the ground you are now trying to re-visit. Dead and buried that is Natty. The undead, that is Natty.
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 11, 2005 at 1:31 AM
I guess you want more of your humiliation repeated then, Moonbat.
A news site prints the news, and Natty, the Prison Planet, has been dealt with above, yopur ignorance is illustratrated above, you didn’t even know the difference betweenAlan Jonesd and Prison Planet, it is above. You are just spouting bull off the top of your puny mind, and have proven two months ago that you8 have never even logged on to Prison Planet, or rense. You are espousing the same dimwit opinions about those sites, which PROVE you could never once have even logged onto either site, and you expect top be taken seriously.?
Rabbit just re-posted the answer to your first attempt at such mental contortionas and you dare to reply with the same game?
IDIOT.
Duh….Duh duh!
You are slower than justice, slutbrain.
You are a very stupid bitch.
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 11, 2005 at 1:44 AM
Yes that isn’t nice. Nor are you.!
More reposts, to show what you ran way from and are here trying to re-invent.
<i>
This guy has met you before Natalie. <i>Time and time again, when I come across close-minded Bush supporters, I witness the effects of an unexplainable phenomenon: a highly dangerous variation of HIV
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 11, 2005 at 3:42 AM
Rabbit has just been following some of your links to find that far from discrediting people, many of your stupid efforts have done no more than show how independant and intelligent are poeple like David Ray Griffin, and many others of those who have spoken out.
Now Rabbit is in the position of having to recommend that readers follow Natty’s links, even though she is a Lying Shill. many of her links, put some of the sources so far quoted by Rabbit, into a very good light, if one but ignores the attempt by the Vampire to spin things.
You are like Liz said a waste of money if someone is paying you for this effort.
<i>Now Natalie starts talking about LSD? What nonsense is this? You now would mention drugs in connection with the names of entirely honest and respected men with no reason or context whatsoever. HOW DARE YOU.
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 11, 2005 at 4:01 AM
Your history Natty.
<i>O.K., Rabbit, tell me more about witnesses. But when you say I
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 11, 2005 at 4:14 AM
Natty a sensible Rabbit who doesn’t value your mind at all, and whom has already been wacking you about the court like a squash ball rather than an opponent, is not inclined to keep dancing about the Blackberry bush with you, since it is easier he is more likely to just point out that you are no longer his debating partner, but an undead soul. A mind which has no other reason to exist but as a foil for Rabbit’s petty, private amusement.
Again thankyou for giving so freely of your self for the sake of Rabbit’s Shill, Troll and Special Moron Museum.
Now if you wish to remain here we must advise that the Garbage is collected every tuesday, and anyone clinging on will be left to expand with the next mulch mix.
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 11, 2005 at 4:22 AM
Rabbit accidentally read Natty’s last popst and can see the usual bullshit.
NO context was omitted clown, you didn’t post anything between the examples given, you sucked out as always when the going gets tough and claiming it is out of context is total bullshit. You had no reply, that was the pouint cow. Too late to be sorry you sucked out again. ou di and that ids history. Nothig out of context in that. FOOL
Natty Rabbit was about to post a refutation of your last post, but there is nothing to refute. !!!
You have made spurious claims, ad-hominem attacks and presented totally unfounded opinion.
Even when you make an effort it is easy to crush your flimsy puke, but in this instance there is nothing except venom to speak of. TYou sure are a poisonous toad when the lies don’t fly aren’t you?
Oh and Natty Rabbit has given links to the original thread about four times before now. He is only re-posting for your benefit. DUMBO!
You are really the bottom of the barrel of Shills Natty, you ain’t even worth Rabbit’s time anymore. Which is why I only wack you idly and without even looking these days. heh babe how does it feel to be struggling even to keep up with an argument where the protagonmist is no longer even listening to you?
You are the lowly, rotten apple in the bottom of the barrel. Let a rodent tell you, there is always a reason why one apple is the last to be chosen.
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 11, 2005 at 4:38 AM
Rabbit declares Natalie the Shill to be .........COMPOST!
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 11, 2005 at 4:40 AM
Oh and the detail that a few dozen words of the Nat’s were excluded from this re-post, is not important. The content of those few posts is clear and obviously alluded to in the replies, and there was nothing else said which wasn’t alluded to.
You were a Jaywalker on the road of truth then Natty as you are now,.
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 11, 2005 at 4:47 AM
COMPOST
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 11, 2005 at 4:48 AM
Now come on, Lume, you
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 11, 2005 at 5:07 AM
<i>...only with the implication left by Rabbit that this particular engineer endorsed the implosion theory.
It is your inference to make. As to whether it is reasonable to infer it is something that Rabbit was implying, again, Rabbit has repeatedly said that he is only interested in arguing facts and not opinions. He presented such a fact for consideration in the context of that particular exchange. That in itself is one of the outstanding contextual themes and motifs of this entire conversation. If you doubt me, reread this thread and count the times he has said it. It should be easy since he usually types the words fact and opinion in CAPITALS for EMPHASIS.
My inference from the style and character of your argumentation is you are being much too single-mindedly partisan. This is not a court of law, it is a consensual conversation. In any case, It
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 11, 2005 at 5:09 AM
<i>Natalie:
The structural damage from the planes and the explosive ignition of jet fuel in themselves were not enough to bring down the towers. Rather, theory has it, THE SUBSEQUENT CONTENTS FIRES ATTACKING THE QUESTIONABLY FIREPROOFED LIGHTWEIGHT TRUSSES AND LOAD-BEARING COLUMNS DIRECTLY CAUSED THE COLLAPSES in an alarmingly short time. Of course, in light of there being no real evidence thus far produced, this could remain just unexplored theory.
Now, if I were corresponding with any ordinary reasonable person, I would only have to show this statement to them and they would realize immediately that saying the capitalized portion represents the speaker
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 11, 2005 at 5:18 AM
BTW, Lume, if you are reading this, what you said immediately after this posting above, made Rabbit fall in love with your mind. You were henceforth his friend.
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 11, 2005 at 5:23 AM
You are just spouting bull off the top of your puny mind, and have proven two months ago that you8 have never even logged on to Prison planet…
Actually I did log on to the planet, quite a while ago while trying to find out where you were getting all the rubbish about Barbara Olson being alive. (and yes, I understand that PP is something of a clearing house of information, but someone has to be responsibe for deciding what to link to, and what to to print on the site. I assume that someone is Alex Jones)
What came out near the top of the search list for Barbara Olson being alive? You guessed it….Prisonplanet.com. I believe I posted a link to the story at the time. I suppose that was on the radioactive wounds thread.
Then I went to the supermarket and saw the cover of the STAR or one of those claiming that aliens had once abducted some celebrity and that explains why they’re so weird.
Then I thought to myself…..why only at the checkout stand….why not on the web too?
Again, from someone who is actually a part of the 9/11 “truth” movement:
Infowars has been one of the worst examples of promoting fake evidence.
Posted by Natalie on Dec 11, 2005 at 8:16 PM
It would appear that Steven E. Jones is not going to be submitting his paper to any kind of legitimate scientific or engineering journal, as was assumed, but to some kind of pro-Marxist economic publication.
Why would this matter? Simply because it would mean that his paper would not gain the attention of and be subject to peer review by people actually knowledgeable about science and/or engineering.
This from the heading of an earlier release of his paper, now scrubbed of the reference:
Accepted for publication: Steven E. Jones, (2006). “Why Indeed did the WTC Buildings Collapse?,” The Hidden History of 9-11-2001, Research in Political Economy, Volume 23, P. Zarembka, editor, Amsterdam: Elsevier, 2006.
Comments on the series “Research in Political Economy”:
“This is a collection that must be read by all those who would like to understand how Marx would have reacted to the tremendous changes which he had not contemplated in precise terms.” —World Affairs
“Research in Political Economy has played a very positive role in developing the scientific Marxist agenda for the last 25 years” —Ajit Sinha, Science & Society
RIPE
Scientific Marxist agenda? Holy cows and bats, lions and tigers and bears.
And rabbits. Oh dear.
Posted by Natalie on Dec 11, 2005 at 11:48 PM
9/11 Evidence Ignored
By Apathetic American Public
Exercising Their Constitutional
Right To Remain ‘Uninformed’
From the ignored recovery of the black boxes at Ground Zero, the eye-witness testimony about basement explosions in the WTC and the scientific evidence of a controlled demolition, the American people have demonstrated over and over again they “just don’t care.”
By Greg Szymanski
12-13-5
Four years after 9/11, numerous people have come forward with damaging evidence but the government has never even blinked an eye.
Worse yet, the state sponsored media and the American people have turned a blind eye and a deaf ear, a sign of cover-up by the media and apathy on the part of the people.
But let’s not forget the media is a private enterprise, able to violate the public trust without losing too much sleep, while the majority of people in America are showing their true colors by using their constitutional right to simply remain uninformed.
Probably, if cornered, most Americans would try to wiggle their way out of being apathetic, but the sad fact remains most of them just don’t care.
In fact, Eric Hufschmid, a long time 9/11 truth activist and first to put together strong evidence of a WTC controlled demolition in his book Painful Questions, recently hit the nail on the head when he said:
“It’s time for people to wake-up! The evidence is there, folks.”
Hufschmid is right. The evidence is there and the American people are ashamedly asleep at the wheel. They’re sound asleep, as Hufschmid points out, because every time solid evidence is presented, making a case for a government 9/11 inside job, it goes in one ear and out the other.
And to make matters worse, the evidence goes by way of “file 69” while politicians, without even as much as blinking a sorry eye, stroll hand-in-hand by the Potomac, smoking cigars and laughing all the way to the bank.
But this scene is too easy to visualize as “Fatso” sprawls on the couch watching reruns of God only knows what while the other “Politician Fatsos” feed out of the government money trough like a bunch of dirty fat pigs.
However, the truth is that Americans have the right under the Constitution to get fat, stay apathetic and remain uninformed, a situation ruthless power-grabbers in high places feed on like sharks in blood infested waters.
And as President Baby Bush so aptly put it the other day, “The Constitution is only a piece of paper” not worth wiping one’s rear-end on. But from the mouth of a foolish President in this case comes the sad truth since the Constitution is only a “piece of paper” when the majority of people choose to remain uninformed.
For example, concerning 9/11, more than a year ago the Arctic Beacon interviewed Michael Bellone, a former honorary New York fireman working at Ground Zero who, along with fireman, Vincent DiMasi, uncovered three of the four airplane black boxes in the WTC wreckage.
Bellone insisted he found the black boxes, was told to “shut up” about it after the FBI confiscated the evidence and then after a few press clippings, nothing was every heard about it again, the 9/11 Commission and the government and the majority of Americans just ignoring the evidence.
A year ago, Bellone had this to say from his New York home:
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 12, 2005 at 10:20 PM
<blockquote>“They confronted me and told me to not to say anything,” recalls Bellone, referring to one of three reddish-orange boxes with two white stripes he saw in the back of DeMasi’s ATV. “I said give me a good reason? When they couldn’t, I told them I wouldn’t shut up about it.
“Why should I? I have nothing to hide and nothing to gain. It’s the truth and Nick and I are sticking to our story as we always have.”
In fact, a year ago Bellone said he and DeMasi were not the only 911 rescue workers to see the black boxes, adding there were several other witnesses and knowing first hand
they had aslo been silenced by federal agents.
“I know two or three others saw what went down, but they are not talking,” added Bellone. “They got to those guys after they talked to me. The only reasonI can figure they are trying to hide the truth is that the government knows it screwed up and the recorders would prove it.
“I can tell you this, though, it was all very strange. I worked on the spaceship Columbia clean-up and you know when something important is found and when something is not” he recalled, saying the day the ‘black boxes’ were secretly carted away agents acted like “something big was going down.”
So, four years ago something big went down. The FBI confiscated evidence showing the airplanes hitting the WTC were not jetliners but most likely military cargo drones. One would think in light of this discovery the next logical step would be to force the government to turn over the boxes, leading to case closed since if they turned the boxes over, the evidence demonstrates the lies and, if they don’t turn them over, it demonstrates a cover-up which is equally as bad.
But instead what happens. The back boxes remain hidden and the reason they have never been made public is because most of the American people really don’t care, unfortunately deciding once again to exercise their constitutional right to remain plunked down on the couch in front of the television remaining “happily uninformed.”
And the list of 9/11 evidence ignored doesn’t stop here. The long list of compelling evidence shoved under the rug by the government, left hidden there by an apathetic populace is astounding. It’s so astounding, as they say, it really “blows one’s mind.”
There is, of course, the eye-witness testimony of not less than 30 people and, probably many more, who witnessed explosions in the WTC basement prior to the airplanes hitting the towers.
Then there is the Pentagon evidence and concealment of evidence that provides enough incriminating facts to put Bush and the gang away for a hundred lifetimes.
And, of course, there is the recent BYU physics professor, to name one of a hundred experts, who all concur that the laws of physics demonstrate without question the WTC collapsed from a controlled demolition not jet fuel like the government contends.
“The list of compelling evidence is endless and you don’t need experts to show that the government is lying about 9/11,” said Phil Jayhan, one of the few Americans who chooses to be informed.
In fact, the list of 9/11 evidence showing a government complicity before, during and after is so strong
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 12, 2005 at 10:21 PM
And it will be interesting to see whether the next piece of 9/11 cake will be again ignored by the American people.
For example, this Friday on the Power Hour radio show, Dave von Kleist and Joyce Riley will interview former Pentagon insider working there on 9/11 who will present damaging evidence that the military brass lied about what type of aircraft actually struck the Pentagon.
Although Flowers was unavailable for comment, he is going to tell Riley and von Kleist on Friday that he was one of “many who were given prepared written statements to say that a commercial airliner hit the Pentagon” when in fact they had no knowledge of the fact or knew it was false.
“Under those chaotic conditions, Paul thought his prescribed protocol was acting in national security’s best interests. Well, today he sees the big mistake he had made by not telling the immediate truth,” said a promotion on the Power Hour web site for the Friday interview.
By following orders from the Pentagon brass, Flowers provides even more evidence that the government was involved in causing 9/11 and the resulting deaths of more than 3,000 people.
However, the real story more interesting than the evidence itself, will be whether the American people once again will choose to remain plunked on the couch, exercising their inalienable right to remain uninformed while another piece of vital 9/11 evidence goes in one ear and out the other like so many times before.
Source
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 12, 2005 at 10:23 PM
The horrors of Zionists and Jewish/Christian fundamentalist supremacists know few bounds. They are the very fascist thugs and felons who are de-constucting and destroying the American way of life. They are the book-burners, the camp guards and staff, and the executioners-in-waiting.
We do NOT agree with George Bush that the American Constitution is “Just a goddamned piece of paper” and we will fight to preserve that hallowed and timeless document and our Bill Of Rights without cessation.
If you have not read the disclaimer at rense.com, please do. And keep in mind ‘journalism’ is traditionally supposed to report and present ALL sides and ALL voices of ALL issues to allow the PEOPLE to decide for themselves. Sadly, today’s mass media corporate shill ‘journalism’ has all but totally abandoned these historic precepts.
We find censorship to be anathema to the American way of life and are not afraid to read the words of Hitler, Hussein, Sharon or anyone else. We believe devoutly that Americans are mature enough and wise enough to be able to weigh issues from all sources and come to their own conclusions.
Zionists, on the other hand, are committed to mass censorship, persecution, slander, intimidation, mind control and ultimately seek a prison camp police state built upon the souls of our Founding Fathers.
Our views on the Holocaust and all other Holocausts are well-known. We believe and continue to call for a full scholarly, scientific investigation to find out exactly, precisely WHAT did happen to European Jews, Gypsies, political dissidents, POWs and countless others on the wrong side of the Nazi regime. Until that happens, we will never know the full truth and will continue to be victimized by the ‘Holocaust Industry’ as depicted brilliantly in Prof Norman Finkelstein’s book of the same name.
In the meantime, we will continue to present major arguments, research and opinion from a myriad of sources in an effort to bring you the full panorama of information regarding many of the crucial events of the last century.
NO, we do NOT agree with everything we post on the site. Some of it is utterly antithetical to our views. YES, we believe it is all worth reading. Know your surroundings, understand the positions of those with whom you disagree. Keep the dialogue and discourse free and open. And let the truth fall where it may.
Let the Truth Fall where it may!
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 12, 2005 at 10:28 PM
Very interesting, Rabbit. Please…..continue!
I’ve heard the story about the lemmings and the cliff, but I hadn’t heard the one about rabbits hanging themselves.
Perhaps it’s unique to Australia.
Posted by Natalie on Dec 13, 2005 at 12:33 AM
Rabbit doesn’t seem to get Vonnegut’s point about information and knowledge not necessarily being the same thing.
No wonder I left this desert land of weeds…
Posted by Jay Cline on Dec 13, 2005 at 1:08 PM
I am not going through a couple hundred posts of drivel, so I may be beating a dead horse, but in response to the notion of alledged suicide hijackers still alive, I quote this from the BBC, which I found one link away from beowulf’s “proof” that this is a conspiracy,
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1553754.stm
The FBI has said that the identities of some of its list of 19 hijackers behind last week’s devastating attacks are in doubt.
It believes that some of the hijackers used false identities, possibly even names of people who are still alive, which could significantly complicate the manhunt.
I will attempt to respond to any sane, brief, concise, relevant retorts.
Posted by Jay Cline on Dec 13, 2005 at 1:19 PM
Hi Jay, good to see you jumping back into the fray.
Posted by David in Canada on Dec 13, 2005 at 3:51 PM
Jay wrote:
I am not going through a couple hundred posts of drivel, so I may be beating a dead horse
Beating a dead horse is exactly what people who continue to promote this tired myth are doing. I earlier posted this from der Spiegel, which I thought did a pretty good job of putting this and some other myths in their proper perspective, as did your recent reference. (Apologies for the repetition, but the practice seems to be quite in style here just recently.)
What these investigative journalists should have done was to spend a little time listening to those whom they cite as “reputable” sources for their arguments. Take the BBC, for example, which did in fact report, on September 23, 2001, that some of the alleged terrorists were alive and healthy and had protested their being named as assassins.
But there is one wrinkle. The BBC journalist responsible for the story only recalls this supposed sensation after having been told the date on which the story aired. “No, we did not have any videotape or photographs of the individuals in question at that time,” he says, and tells us that the report was based on articles in Arab newspapers, such as the Arab News, an English-language Saudi newspaper.
....We make a call to Jeddah, Saudi Arabia. A few seconds later, Managing Editor John Bradley is on the line. When we tell Bradley our story, he snorts and says: “That’s ridiculous! People here stopped talking about that a long time ago.”
Bradley tells us that at the time his reporters did not speak directly with the so-called “survivors,” but instead combined reports from other Arab papers. These reports, says Bradley, appeared at a time when the only public information about the attackers was a list of names that had been published by the FBI on September 14th. The FBI did not release photographs until four days after the cited reports, on September 27th.
The photographs quickly resolved the nonsense about surviving terrorists. According to Bradley, “all of this is attributable to the chaos that prevailed during the first few days following the attack. What we’re dealing with are coincidentally identical names.” In Saudi Arabia, says Bradley, the names of two of the allegedly surviving attackers, Said al-Ghamdi and Walid al-Shari, are “as common as John Smith in the United States or Great Britain.”
That’s ridiculous!
Finally, a website devoted to debunking many of the “alternative” theories re: 9/11. There is no shortage of material available to the shills for terrorism to feed on, but those of us clinging to the crazy notion that the activist arm of Islam is solely responsible for the events of that day have had to rely mainly upon the boring analyses of fools overeducated in the worthless fields of fire, mechanical and structural engineering, along with the highly suspect and even more boring conclusions of metallurgists and materials experts.
Perhaps I’m simplistic, but I just can’t get past the fact that nobody qualified to specify the structural requirements for building the towers has joined the parade of questionable characters that seem to think they are qualified to determine how they failed. When you start to dissect their theories and claims, it becomes quite apparent that they are motivated not by really wanting to find out the truth about the towers and related events, but by their hatred and disapproval of George W. Bush and the fact that America is actually using *gasp* force to change the equation in the middle east and elsewhere as it relates to Islamic terrorism. If we had simply chalked it all up to “stuff happens”, and referred the whole matter to the FBI and the courts, I sincerely doubt all this would even be an issue on the Internet, much less warranting a stint on “The Situation”.
Posted by Natalie on Dec 17, 2005 at 5:24 PM
so I may be beating a dead horse
When one finds oneself riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.
Harnessing several dead horses together is if no use at all.
Posted by David in Canada on Dec 20, 2005 at 11:28 PM
David,
Your musings are entertaining and I appreciate them, but I can’t help but suspect them to be a device for avoiding taking a clear stand on the issue of whether or not you believe that the WTC towers were deliberately toppled with the help of explosives courtesy of the U.S. govt.
Please explicitly state your belief regarding this controversy, minus the musings.
Additionally, do you consider the armor of someone engaging in holocaust revisionism to be shiny?
Posted by Natalie on Dec 21, 2005 at 12:31 AM
Frank A. Demartini, on-site construction manager for the World Trade Center, spoke of the resilience of the towers in an interview recorded on January 25, 2001.
The building was designed to have a fully loaded 707 crash into it. That was the largest plane at the time. I believe that the building probably could sustain multiple impacts of jetliners because this structure is like the mosquito netting on your screen door—this intense grid—and the jet plane is just a pencil puncturing that screen netting. It really does nothing to the screen netting.
Demartini, who had an office on the 88th floor of the North Tower, has been missing since the 9/11/01 attack. 4
How is that Jay?
Posted by beowulf on Dec 21, 2005 at 3:23 AM
As architect and physicist Dave Heller (2005) explains:
the floors could not have been pancaking. The buildings fell too quickly. The floors must all have been falling simultaneously to reach the ground in such a short amount of time. But how?. . . In [the method known as controlled demolition], each floor of a building is destroyed at just the moment the floor above is about to strike it. Thus, the floors fall simultaneously, and in virtual freefall. (Garlic and Glass 6)
Most of these 11 features—-all but the slicing of the core columns and the molten steel in the basements—-are features that, if they occurred before or during the collapses of the towers, could have been observed by people in the area. And, in fact, testimonies about some of these phenomena have been available, since shortly after 9/11, from reporters,[36] fire fighters,[37] police officers,[38] people who worked in the towers,[39] and one prominent explosives expert, Van Romero, [40] who said on that very day after viewing the videotapes, that the collapses not only resembled those produced by controlled implosions but must, in fact, have been caused by
Posted by beowulf on Dec 21, 2005 at 4:16 AM
Explosions
Several individuals reported that they witnessed an explosion just before one of the towers collapsed. Battalion Chief John Sudnik said:
Posted by beowulf on Dec 21, 2005 at 4:18 AM
The importance of these observations is reinforced by the fact that the authors of the NIST Report, after having released a draft to the public, felt the need to add the following statement to the Executive Summary:
NIST found no corroborating evidence for alternative hypotheses suggesting that the WTC towers were brought down by controlled demolition using explosives planted prior to September 11, 2001. . . . Instead, photos and videos from several angles clearly showed that the collapse initiated at the fire and impact floors and that the collapse progressed from the initiating floors downward.
Firefighters Burke and Cachia presumably now need to ask themselves: What are you going to believe, your own eyes or an official government report?
Flashes and Demolition Rings
Some of the witnesses spoke of flashes and of phenomena suggestive of demolition rings. Assistant Commissioner Stephen Gregory said:
Posted by beowulf on Dec 21, 2005 at 4:20 AM
Oh, and Natalie
you question a topic broached on a web sight on the fringe, which quickly squashed and dismissed the Olson story for lack of evidence, but you worship at the feet of the mainstream media who carried the lies of the WMDs that lead this nation into an illegal war. Thousands are now dead for that one and you still retain faith in those same institutions. Do explain.
Jay believes raghead media cannot be trusted either. I wonder who conditioned him to believe that one. I find that interesting and possibly leads to his current motivation towards genetic cleansing as he “rebuilds the realm” for the neocons. Well, once like Trotsky, always like Trotsky. I cannot ask them to change their spots. No wonder you are so offended by our constitution. Unfortunately, while we debate this last government op, the government is no doubt planning yet another to get you monkeys to attack Iran and Syria and to reinstate dictorial powers. That way Big Brother can keep you safe.
“Those who would trade liberty for security will descend into tyranny.”
-Ronald Reagan 1981.
Posted by beowulf on Dec 21, 2005 at 5:28 AM
Hi Natalie,
I believe that the collapse of WTC 1, WTC 2 and WTC 7 were not the result of the plane crashes into WTC 1 and WTC 2 and/or the subsequent fires.
I believe that controlled demolition with the use of explosives is the most probable cause from the evidence I have studied. Controlled demolition with explosives seems to be the only answer for the collapse of WTC 7.
I have questions about the official story that I feel have not been satisfactorily answered.
What do you think of the collapse of WTC 7?
What do you think of the huge increase in put options on airline stock in the days preceding 9/11?
Maybe this discussion should be moved to a new thread here on ITT called What’s the 411 on 9/11?
Just a reminder that believing is not always the same as knowing. Questioning is not the same as disbelieving.
As for your holocaust revisionism question : Where did that question come from? Are you trying to get me arrested and marched off to the Canadian prison cell so recently vacated when they shipped Ernst Zundel off to Germany?
Maybe one day questioning the official story of 9/11 will be a thought crime too.
Natalie, never the less, this may answer your question : When I agree/disagree with someone about a particular issue it does not prevent me from disagreeing/agreeing with them on another issue.
Posted by David in Canada on Dec 21, 2005 at 12:40 PM
One more question for you Natalie.
What do you think of the war games being run preceding and on 9/11?
Enough said here. Take yourself to the new thread, where the discussion has already begun, if you care to and maybe you will find me there. Or you may not. I have grown a little weary of watching a nag being flogged.
Posted by David in Canada on Dec 21, 2005 at 6:48 PM
Thanks for clarifying, David. I admire that you are willing to take a solid stand on the issue; perhaps you did earlier and I didn’t catch it or remember it.
I think you are totally and completely wrong, as do apparently two editors of “In These Times”, but you’re certainly entitled to your conclusions.
As for your holocaust revisionism question : Where did that question come from?
My question about holocaust revisionism stems from the post by Rabbit a little earlier up the page, which questioned whether perhaps that event just wasn’t all that, along with your even earlier describing Rabbit as your “knight in shining armor”. I was simply asking if perhaps you would consider his armor to be tarnished by such a stance. Thankfully, it appears from your statement about separation of issues that you do.
I don’t know about Canada, but I believe it is a crime to question the holocaust in certain countries in Europe. Funny, it isn’t a crime in that oppressive thought controlling region known as America. Here, we only regard refusing to believe the conclusions of every historian worthy of the title and hundreds of hours of eye-witness testimony simply as symptoms of stubborn denial for reasons unfathomable or perhaps unthinkable. The same tolerance and reluctance to jail is extended to folks wishing to imagine practically anything that seeks to de-legitimize our response to the 9/11 attacks by yes….I’m sorry to break it to ya….. hate-filled, racist Muslim murderers. Yours and my very survival may depend on recognizing and acting on this reality. It’s no small inconsequential matter, like debating about crop circles.
The collapse of WTC 7 has been testified to have been expected by senior firefighters on the ground after observing the extreme damage to I believe the south face, and a major bulge in the building, as measured by a transit. They were convinced it would soon collapse, hence the reference to “pulling” people out of harm’s way. It was a somewhat diagonal collapse, as opposed to the straight down “in it’s own footprint” description so often described. I know the video appears to resemble that familiar scene of a controlled demolition, but a lot of things appear to resemble a lot of things, now don’t they?
Extraordinary charges like these demand extraordinary proof, and I simply haven’t seen any yet. Nor, apparently, has anyone else in the world of legitimate, Bush hating journalism. Not to mention the world of structural engineering, which I’m sure contains both Bush haters and lovers, and those in between.
Why in the world would someone bother with wiring teeny little WTC7 with explosives after having just completed the massive task of wiring the two quarter mile high skyscrapers? That just wasn’t enough destruction for the Neocons?
cont…...
Posted by Natalie on Dec 22, 2005 at 9:47 AM
pg. 2…..
As far as put options, there appears to be perfectly reasonable explanations for them. In addition to the below linked information, wouldn’t it be logical to assume that certain elements of al Qaeda, perhaps at the highest levels, with definite knowledge of the upcoming attacks might use that knowledge to fill their coffers? Not using their real names, of course, but by way of a complicated laundering operation? Isn’t that just a little more sensible than relying on the assumption that elements of the U.S. govt. would sanction the mass murder of their own citizens? Even Martha Stewart dangled her toes in the insider trading pond. It is so crazy to think that the angels from al Qaeda wouldn’t as well?
“A single U.S.-based institutional investor with no conceivable ties to al Qaeda purchased 95 percent of the UAL puts on September 6 as part of a trading strategy that also included buying 115,000 shares of American on September 10…
Similarly, much of the seemingly suspicious trading in American on September 10th was traced to a specific U.S.-based options trading newsletter, faxed to its subscribers on Sunday, September 9, which recommended these trades”.
Much more
War games preceding 9/11? Now that’s a new one on me. Could it possibly simply be a coincidence? They have been known to occur, pretty much every day in pretty much everyone’s life.
Does it not raise the slightest bit of suspicion in your mind that seemingly everyone who embraces these IMHO crazy theories is anti-Bush and anti-war? You, Rabbit, luminous beauty, (to be fair lb hasn’t committed AFAIK) beowolf, Kevin “Global decisions” Ryan, David Ray “Guess what I learned on the Internet?” Griffin, Morgan “from my imaginary office at Texas A&M” Reynolds, Philip “motion to disbar supremes” Berg, Steven “no, I’m not a Republican” Jones.
I’m sorry. The only nag being truly flogged here is the collection of nagging Internet nonsense known as the 9/11 “truth” movement. Beliefs otherwise are yet another symptom of denial for reasons unfathomable or unthinkable.
Posted by Natalie on Dec 22, 2005 at 9:48 AM
Natalie you are the most dishonest person.
Rabbit has never engaged in holocaust denial. You are proving how low you are, what a complete fraud, a liar and a shill. You are the revisionist. You are the one drawing conclusions about entire sites based on your interpretations of the headings of artciles on those sites. You are a fraud.
Doesn’t it seem the teensiest bit logical Natty dear that anyone who realises the truth, or at least realises the government is lying, is going to be anti Bush and anti war. especially since the war was ostensibly started on the back of the LIES about 911.
You sure do lack in the logic department Natty. the perfect companion to the Jay Bird, an idiot and a moron.
Rabbit has not engaged in Holocaust revison, lying shill. That is just the flavour of the month for people with small minds and hysterical ideas, to call anybody who doesn’t agree with you. Which is an increasing number of people by the way.
How sad to have Jay Bird as one’s only choir member.
How’s that fantasy world coming along Natty?
Why don’t you take it over to the relevant thread, there is a 911 thread, especially for mind dwarfs like you dear. It has a starting article which is exactly the sort of thing you would quote as proof that Griffin and Jones are insane.
Muwwakkil makes a great case for trashing your two most hated foes Natty, the weird Timothy Leary like Griffin, and the strange religious freak Jones. He makes the case with all the style and aplomb which we have come to expect from the most contemptible and disgusting Criminal regime ever to have grown like a malignant tumour to engulf half the planet in it’s madness. your empire is doomed and it is high time.
When the rabbit sees such blatant abuse of all the rules of humanity and decency, the most heinous crimes are being justified in your sick and doomed empire. you are actually debating how much torture you should be using, upon innocent people, people largely arrested on the basis of random sweeps and profiling.
When the rabbit sees such as you, towing a line of garbage, trying to make some sort of a patched together imitation of an argument for something which has no life of its own. the gobvernment story is dead in the water despite the biggest propahnda campaign of Earths history. Nothing ever made it stand up and it has been getting worse since, despite almost NO Puppet Media coverage.
There is no arguing with statistics and Natty we got da numbers and dey is a growin.
Meanwhile your supporters are already numbering only the lowest common denominator. Look at Jay, he is the lowest common denominator, he has never achieved a single point of note in his time on ITT. Everything he says is rubbish and he projects like a cimema camera. He has no power of logic or reason, and he is actually famous for it. He believes in you. He will believe in anything which he already believes in. You just have to say what he believes and he sees that as prrof positive and beyond all need to even consider any other possibility.
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 22, 2005 at 1:33 PM
Anyway, neither he nor you matter. the truth is being spread daily, and it is growing exponentially. It is logical really.
Rabbit has “converted” a Truck driver who has never had any info before but knew somethings were wrong himslef. It is amazing how smart real people are, Natty and Jay.
You guys are just lagging behind. Flat earth society that’s you. We don’t need you, neither the truth nor the race. If you are still clinging onto your delusions this late in the game, then you are not really meant to come with us. your day is coming to an end, you are being separated from the healthy, new man, the Race of slightly more advanced humans, those who have a certain power of cognitive reasoning, which you have failed to establish. The new age is a paradigm shift, seen from one angle, and it is haoppening as we speak. Those who have made it know, they can look back on you but you cannot see that you are separated by a veil. A veil of incomprehension.
For you is the world of superstition and faith. Of comfortable myths and and convenient beliefs. Slogans and Newspeak.
Don’t think just download the program. Don’t blink it is changed again, but don’t think it was always the same.
You are going to be destroyed by the destinies you have wrought, and it is becoming clearer now how and why. Rabbit feels almost sorry for you, but in the end, he knows as you will one day come to know just what you have had a hand in doing.
By the way Natty, if you don’t know about the exercises which effectively covered for the planes on 911, and the uncanny simuilarities in the training scenario and the actual event, then What are you doing spruiking for a cause that you have obviously NO IDEA about?
You might want to compare that co-incidence with BUSH and the rest of the JUNTA actually saying they had never had never ever considered such a scenario.
GIRL CHILD you know NOTHING. If you can sit their like a steaming pile of poop and say you just don’t stink, you are the most craven or the stupidest person I think Rabbit has ever met.
You have a lot of reading and research to do, before you should be wasting the time of others who know more about thjese things than you could in ten lifetimes, at your current rate of growth.
That is of course unless you are a shill, which you are, which is why you can do things even a mind slut like Jay couldn’t bring himslef to. Rabbit has seen him choke over and over, don’t you Jay Bird? You’ve already choked haven’t you, you won’t be back around here, old Jay Bird. Nothing to say except how he knows it all and how he just whups everone’s ass all the time. Jay is the man, just ask him.
Take it to the appropriate thread. You are lurking in a back room cave again. This is one of the reasons rabbit knows you are a vampire. You lurk in the darkness.
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 22, 2005 at 1:44 PM
Oh and the debunking site you’ve linked too is crap, it is obviously not catering to a very sohisticated audience. Ias far as reaoned argument goes, it is very thin on the ground, it debunks in a few sentences somethings which have been effectively dealt with by some very detailed and well referenced reports.
Rabbit is reminded of the adage that merely because you say it is doesn’t make it so. They have done the same as all the government debunking sites, and made superficial references, homed in on a few isolated facts and a made some glib remark about see how innocent is this really, and then tried to tie the whole lot together as a major debunking exercise. Natty there is less of substance on that crappy little site, than in some single articles deatiling precisely why the Government story is wrong, wrong and lies.
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 22, 2005 at 1:53 PM
Like David said, you deceitful creature, questioning is not believing.
Rabbit has read enough to know there are questions not over the fact that Many Jews were murdered, but there are questions about who let them be murdered, when they could mostly if not all have been saved. It is incredible how little is recognised of the Bolshevik murders and the Millions more Christians who were murdered by Jews, on the basis of a ZIONIST policy.
That is not revising the holocaust except to add the rest of the story which has been conveniently edited out by a Zionist controlled press.
Go on calling people names based on the headline all you wish, but you are like a silly little chicken peeping at the tree it fell out of, it isn’t listening and it doesn’t care anyway.
Rabbit will not indulge you any more on this thread, when there is an approriate one alive now.
Doubt you’ll go to it, you can’t stand facing more than one Rabbit and a Curious Monkey Fish at once, as rabbit recalls you usually run away until others go everytime more come..
Posted by GhostRabbit on Dec 22, 2005 at 2:07 PM
This subject got very serious, but let me address the topic that started it.
If you oppose the war, that doesn’t mean you vote for a democrat that supports the war rather then the republican. you vote for neither. I do think Kucinich sold out, though he did hold on to the very end. I don’t know if that is part of the game or real.
I don’t know if Nader was the real deal or not.
But I do know, that I will not vote for anybody who cannot publicly say that this war is wrong.
check out www.NotOneMore.US and take the Pledge for Peace. Yes, a little sophmoric, but it is a start. We need a culture change that will start the change if we want to become a society based on peace and justice.
peace
www.NotOneMore.US
Posted by password on Jan 3, 2006 at 11:42 PM
Good onya Pasword.
This Rabbit…...from the accurately monikered…....... at least of late, land of OZ, salutes the truth. Password has said it, but like truth in general these days, what is it but a goddamned piece of paper?
With Diebold type voting, you don’t even get a piece of paper.
Posted by Rabbit on Jan 6, 2006 at 1:59 AM
<u>Diebold</u> voting?
Heck, what really bothers me about those machines is the fact that they are programmed by programmers. So what, right? Programmers almost always put a “back-door” or cheat into the program they write. No offense to programmers as I am one, but we just do it because… well… we just do.
As a matter of fact, I heard a story some time ago about one of the Diebold programmers bragging about his “back-door,” but I can’t remember where I read it or where my GF read it to me from. Hmmmm…. I’m not saying that I have total faith in the story, but as a programmer who knows other programmers, I can’t say I would be a bit surprised and I sure as heck am glad that my state doesn’t use them GD Diebold voting machines. We use paper ballots and there isn’t anything in the works to change it as far as I know.
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Kucini
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<i>
How exactly does Natty claim Rodriguez is a hoax?
Let us have a look at what we looked at once before.
An introduction to William Rodriguez, Natalie.
——————————————————————-
WORLD TRADE CENTER RESCUE HERO SUES BUSH AND OTHERS UNDER RICO STATUTE,
ALLEGES WILLFUL COMPLICITY IN ATTACKS THAT KILLED 3,000.
By Margaret Atheling Rowe
PHILADELPHIA, PA, OCTOBER 22, 2004
On September 11, 2001, William Rodriguez, a maintenance worker at the World Trade Center in Manhattan, single-handedly rescued fifteen people. The only employee with the master key to the North Tower staircases, he led firefighters up the stairs, unlocking doors as he went, aiding in the evacuation of hundreds of additional people who, but for his efforts, might have perished. Although his job description did not include saving lives, Rodriguez re-entered the building three times after the first plane struck, and was the last person to exit the North Tower alive. He survived the collapse of the North Tower by diving beneath a fire truck to avoid the avalanche of concrete and steel. After onsite treatment for his injuries, Rodriguez plunged right back into rescue efforts at the site. At dawn the next morning, Rodriguez returned to Ground Zero from his home in Jersey City, to continue to aid in rescue efforts.
Later, Rodriguez became an unofficial spokesman for survivors, among other things helping to secure an amnesty for undocumented aliens, many of them Latinos, and in the creation of the World Trade Center Memorial Fund. Although he lost his job of 19 years and his means of livelihood
Attorney Berg acknowledges that Rodriguez
The truth is that there is no definitive evidence that there were any Arabs on those planes, and even less proof concerning the supposed identities of the alleged hijackers.
Knowing as we do that Natty ignores so much of the relevant stuff Rabbit posts, this doesn’t mean she doesn’t ignore others’ too. John again, who was of course ignored.
<i> hear a lot of silence on all that 9-11 evidence I posted yesterday.
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
CAPTAIN KARIN DESHORE
INTERVIEW DATE NOVEMBER 7 2001
First collapse:
Whit posted the following:
<i>Natalie,
This site might be useful
The following is reposted to show how balanced rabbit is. The is the only useful or intelligent thing Natalie has contribiuted, but everyone like it.
Hooray for Natalie…...........
<i>Go to tinyurl.com, David, to shorten those links. I think the problem arises when the link is longer than the width of the entry box.
It occurs to me that the Iraqis, even after all they
Natty tried this:
<i>
Rabbit replied:
<i>Natalie once again shoots her as yet earthbound plane with another hole. (Rabbit does not like to think of Natalie shooting her feet off)
It should be noted that the debris of flight 93 is a very small piece if evidence and it is best seen in light of a lot of other evidence, most of which natalie is stedfastly refusing to acknowledge. Now since you wish to look at the facts of Debris from flight 93, Rabbit will be pleased to oblige. The PM article has been thoroughly dealt with above. It was also noted that another tactic of the PM article was to do what you are doing Nat, Dissemble over selected details and ignoring the main deatils which actually led to the conclusion they were trying to debunk.
Rabbit did not mention any engines or fans anmd his sources certainly did not give much prominance to the details you are mentioning. It is a fatal mistake to quote PMs quotes of Rense, as many of their quotes about Rense articles were not accurate. You compound your ignorance of what you are talking about over and over with your flawed comprehension of what Rense is. The site is simply a NEWS site. It links to NEWS, from other sources. Any reference to anything Rense says, is spurious. The site Rense.com, has a disclaimer printed on it which makes you lokk like a prime dimwit everytime you or anyone says Rense makes any claims. You quote what other sources say about something without ever even having established that the thing exists. No gullible girls around here, of course.
The following is a list of sources which all detail the ACTUAL debris and there was as you will see some at 8 miles distance. So all you have done with your last post is to prove once again that the official Theory is a LIE.
The engine and debris was found
<i>This is your guy Natalie, even your own witnesses working against your theory.
In a morning briefing, state Police Major Lyle Szupinka confirmed that debris from the plane had turned up in relatively far-flung sites, including the residential area of Indian Lake. Investigators appealed to any residents who had come across such debris, in the surrounding countryside or even in their yards, to contact them, emphasizing that even the smallest remnants could prove to be important clues.
<i>Anyway, it is established that debris was found at least 8 miles from the crsh site of flight 93. No? OK Some more.
It
<i>
Natalie, the Rabbit is a liitle bored and so has decided to crush your last post like a Grape.
Theory 1 - It blew there (The NTSB/FBI Story).
Comment: Wind speed that day was 9 knots (or 10.4 MPH). Video from that morning shows a very light breeze.
The NTSB theory is that a lot of lightweight paper-like material survived the crash fireball and escaped the 35 foot deep, wet mud crash site and floated at 10 mph 2 - 8 miles over more wet, muddy fields. And how did clothing, books and large engine parts blow there again? And is there stuff 2 to 8 miles away at the Pentagon crash? Or another crash you can think of? Oh yea, at Lockerbie and Flight 800 there was (both had in-air explosions).
Remember, the debris is NOT continuous. They didn
The following gives an idea of the inderlying, snide innuendos which are the Bat’s stock in trade, and the Rabbit’s pleasant and easy going nature.
<blockquote>Rabbit,
I
Now sad as it is, Rabbit must say that even on the one time The Natty did a good thing (See above), she was yet doing a bad thing.
The Tiny url to which she lately linked was noted by Dave and Rabbit as follows. pertinant it is because it is the source of Rabbit’s occassioanl refernce to her propensity for using human shields for her own protection.
<i>Quoting Natalie :
We’ve been around the Blackberry Bush many times with Natty, and this is as relevant now as then.
<i>Rabbit is a man first an Australian second.
I will not follow a corrupt and evil cause even if is has my country
I think you may be just trying to run up the post count, Rabbit. :~)
Why don’t you simply give a link to the original thread and let people read the whole thing for themselves? You’re leaving out a lot of context, and only confusing things, no doubt to your advantage. You seem to be trying to say that I ignore certain things. But when I do address something, you say “that little detail is not important….why are you focusing on it?.....you haven’t proven a thing” (paraphrasing)
One thing that people need to know when reading this thread and others I’ve commented on, is that I simply don’t have a lot of time to devote to addressing and debunking or agreeing with everything that’s presented. I actually admire someone who is self-employed and has arranged it so they apparently have tons of time between tasks to debate on the Internet. I am sadly not fortunate enough, or perhaps not clever enough to be so employed.
However, I do consider myself superior in one respect, and that is in the ability to discern quality information and reliable sources from mere pretenders. To wit: (more from oilempire)
infowars.com
The Alex Jones radio show seems to be an electronic vacuum cleaner that publishes virtually any claim regardless of whether there is real evidence or not. Some of the hoaxes pushed by this show include his claim that Gary Webb was stalked by government agents on his balcony before he was supposedly murdered (in reality: there wasn’t a balcony on his house and his family is completely convinced he really did commit suicide).
Other great Jones hoaxes include:
Support for key elements of the “planesite” film, his efforts to give them credibility.
Promotion of the Stanley Hilton lawsuit (the only named plaintiff bases his legal strategy to sue the Bush administration on his being fired from Nieman Marcus department store for passing out anti-war literature). Mr. Hilton used to be an assistant to Senator Bob Dole.
April 27, 2005
www.prisonplanet.com/articles/april2005/270405newfootage.htm
New Flight 175 Footage: No Pod?
Since other websites and 9/11 truth organizations began talking about the pod, this website has attempted to be balanced and air the views of both sides.
Nonsense. Infowars was pushing this long after a lot of people proved 1000% this was a hoax. In early May 2004, the 9/11 Truth Alliance list had a photo posted to it by a member that clearly showed the “pod” was a myth, a bad joke - a photo that wound up on the cover of “In Plane Site” (a “coincidence” that the movie’s makers not attempted to discuss in their pathetic refutations of the extensive reviews by the 9/11 truth movement—there is no innocent explanation for that).
Infowars is many things, but “balanced” is not one of them. Perhaps they are merely gullible, incompetent and a patsy for cointelpro disinformation (if they are sincere). People making a couple of mistakes that are corrected is one thing—but systematically promoting hoaxes and lending credibility to people making up nonsense that is used to discredit us is not acceptable, even if they have nice rhetoric…....
......Infowars has been one of the worst examples of promoting fake evidence.
Now this scathing critique of one of Rabbit’s favorite “news” sources comes from people basically friendly to the general Prisonplanet POV about believing that official stories are mostly LIES. Can you imagine if a genuine news professional schooled in source and fact checking, whos career depended on “getting it right”, somehow decided to analyze Jones’s work? As Liz might say…..“Oh dear”.
R«bit is merely ignoring the Natty actually, your psots have ceased to be relevant and after several months of your failing to make even astart on intelligent debate, I’m sick of you. Nobody else gives a shit either, you are irrellevant and just won’t face up to it.
Never has the Rabbit said this to anyone, but here to you, but I will not even waste my time reading your posts Natty, you ceased to be releavnt a long time ago. too late to dribble oin about issues long dead, you ran away after the last post above, so waht good are you, just because you pop up like a disease on anew thread? Rabbit doesn;t care about you anymore and nor does anyone else it seems.
Rabbit may yet post some more of the old things you ignored, as a “cheap exercise in self justification”. He has actually earned the right to do so, slimy toad..
In the meantime, he is ignoring your babble, out of spite. If anyone else decides it is worth a reply, like it has maybe moved someone a bit, Rabbit will happily re-engage the issues you fiddle around peripherally with. In the meantime, Rabbit will persist in the current strategy of ignoring you as a complete robot shill. Whilst occasionally posting ridicule of you, as he sifts through your nonsense while preparing a display out of the bones of your mostly ad-hominem attacks,. You are goping to be a star attraction in a Museum, Cow….......Bat. Moo Moo Flap Flap.
Oh and Natty, who doesn’t read much of anything anytime, is ignoring three months of details relating to issues she now re-invents.
IT HAS ALL BEEN DEALT WITH!
Nothing changes the fact that you RAN AWAY from this debate after covering all the ground you are now trying to re-visit. Dead and buried that is Natty. The undead, that is Natty.
I guess you want more of your humiliation repeated then, Moonbat.
A news site prints the news, and Natty, the Prison Planet, has been dealt with above, yopur ignorance is illustratrated above, you didn’t even know the difference betweenAlan Jonesd and Prison Planet, it is above. You are just spouting bull off the top of your puny mind, and have proven two months ago that you8 have never even logged on to Prison Planet, or rense. You are espousing the same dimwit opinions about those sites, which PROVE you could never once have even logged onto either site, and you expect top be taken seriously.?
Rabbit just re-posted the answer to your first attempt at such mental contortionas and you dare to reply with the same game?
IDIOT.
Duh….Duh duh!
You are slower than justice, slutbrain.
You are a very stupid bitch.
Yes that isn’t nice. Nor are you.!
More reposts, to show what you ran way from and are here trying to re-invent.
<i>
This guy has met you before Natalie. <i>Time and time again, when I come across close-minded Bush supporters, I witness the effects of an unexplainable phenomenon: a highly dangerous variation of HIV
Rabbit has just been following some of your links to find that far from discrediting people, many of your stupid efforts have done no more than show how independant and intelligent are poeple like David Ray Griffin, and many others of those who have spoken out.
Now Rabbit is in the position of having to recommend that readers follow Natty’s links, even though she is a Lying Shill. many of her links, put some of the sources so far quoted by Rabbit, into a very good light, if one but ignores the attempt by the Vampire to spin things.
You are like Liz said a waste of money if someone is paying you for this effort.
<i>Now Natalie starts talking about LSD? What nonsense is this? You now would mention drugs in connection with the names of entirely honest and respected men with no reason or context whatsoever. HOW DARE YOU.
Your history Natty.
<i>O.K., Rabbit, tell me more about witnesses. But when you say I
Natty a sensible Rabbit who doesn’t value your mind at all, and whom has already been wacking you about the court like a squash ball rather than an opponent, is not inclined to keep dancing about the Blackberry bush with you, since it is easier he is more likely to just point out that you are no longer his debating partner, but an undead soul. A mind which has no other reason to exist but as a foil for Rabbit’s petty, private amusement.
Again thankyou for giving so freely of your self for the sake of Rabbit’s Shill, Troll and Special Moron Museum.
Now if you wish to remain here we must advise that the Garbage is collected every tuesday, and anyone clinging on will be left to expand with the next mulch mix.
Rabbit accidentally read Natty’s last popst and can see the usual bullshit.
NO context was omitted clown, you didn’t post anything between the examples given, you sucked out as always when the going gets tough and claiming it is out of context is total bullshit. You had no reply, that was the pouint cow. Too late to be sorry you sucked out again. ou di and that ids history. Nothig out of context in that. FOOL
Natty Rabbit was about to post a refutation of your last post, but there is nothing to refute. !!!
You have made spurious claims, ad-hominem attacks and presented totally unfounded opinion.
Even when you make an effort it is easy to crush your flimsy puke, but in this instance there is nothing except venom to speak of. TYou sure are a poisonous toad when the lies don’t fly aren’t you?
Oh and Natty Rabbit has given links to the original thread about four times before now. He is only re-posting for your benefit. DUMBO!
You are really the bottom of the barrel of Shills Natty, you ain’t even worth Rabbit’s time anymore. Which is why I only wack you idly and without even looking these days. heh babe how does it feel to be struggling even to keep up with an argument where the protagonmist is no longer even listening to you?
You are the lowly, rotten apple in the bottom of the barrel. Let a rodent tell you, there is always a reason why one apple is the last to be chosen.
Rabbit declares Natalie the Shill to be .........COMPOST!
Oh and the detail that a few dozen words of the Nat’s were excluded from this re-post, is not important. The content of those few posts is clear and obviously alluded to in the replies, and there was nothing else said which wasn’t alluded to.
You were a Jaywalker on the road of truth then Natty as you are now,.
COMPOST
Now come on, Lume, you
<i>...only with the implication left by Rabbit that this particular engineer endorsed the implosion theory.
It is your inference to make. As to whether it is reasonable to infer it is something that Rabbit was implying, again, Rabbit has repeatedly said that he is only interested in arguing facts and not opinions. He presented such a fact for consideration in the context of that particular exchange. That in itself is one of the outstanding contextual themes and motifs of this entire conversation. If you doubt me, reread this thread and count the times he has said it. It should be easy since he usually types the words fact and opinion in CAPITALS for EMPHASIS.
My inference from the style and character of your argumentation is you are being much too single-mindedly partisan. This is not a court of law, it is a consensual conversation. In any case, It
<i>Natalie:
The structural damage from the planes and the explosive ignition of jet fuel in themselves were not enough to bring down the towers. Rather, theory has it, THE SUBSEQUENT CONTENTS FIRES ATTACKING THE QUESTIONABLY FIREPROOFED LIGHTWEIGHT TRUSSES AND LOAD-BEARING COLUMNS DIRECTLY CAUSED THE COLLAPSES in an alarmingly short time. Of course, in light of there being no real evidence thus far produced, this could remain just unexplored theory.
Now, if I were corresponding with any ordinary reasonable person, I would only have to show this statement to them and they would realize immediately that saying the capitalized portion represents the speaker
BTW, Lume, if you are reading this, what you said immediately after this posting above, made Rabbit fall in love with your mind. You were henceforth his friend.
You are just spouting bull off the top of your puny mind, and have proven two months ago that you8 have never even logged on to Prison planet…
Actually I did log on to the planet, quite a while ago while trying to find out where you were getting all the rubbish about Barbara Olson being alive. (and yes, I understand that PP is something of a clearing house of information, but someone has to be responsibe for deciding what to link to, and what to to print on the site. I assume that someone is Alex Jones)
What came out near the top of the search list for Barbara Olson being alive? You guessed it….Prisonplanet.com. I believe I posted a link to the story at the time. I suppose that was on the radioactive wounds thread.
Then I went to the supermarket and saw the cover of the STAR or one of those claiming that aliens had once abducted some celebrity and that explains why they’re so weird.
Then I thought to myself…..why only at the checkout stand….why not on the web too?
Again, from someone who is actually a part of the 9/11 “truth” movement:
Infowars has been one of the worst examples of promoting fake evidence.
It would appear that Steven E. Jones is not going to be submitting his paper to any kind of legitimate scientific or engineering journal, as was assumed, but to some kind of pro-Marxist economic publication.
Why would this matter? Simply because it would mean that his paper would not gain the attention of and be subject to peer review by people actually knowledgeable about science and/or engineering.
This from the heading of an earlier release of his paper, now scrubbed of the reference:
Accepted for publication: Steven E. Jones, (2006). “Why Indeed did the WTC Buildings Collapse?,” The Hidden History of 9-11-2001, Research in Political Economy, Volume 23, P. Zarembka, editor, Amsterdam: Elsevier, 2006.
Comments on the series “Research in Political Economy”:
“This is a collection that must be read by all those who would like to understand how Marx would have reacted to the tremendous changes which he had not contemplated in precise terms.” —World Affairs
“Research in Political Economy has played a very positive role in developing the scientific Marxist agenda for the last 25 years” —Ajit Sinha, Science & Society
RIPE
Scientific Marxist agenda? Holy cows and bats, lions and tigers and bears.
And rabbits. Oh dear.
<blockquote>“They confronted me and told me to not to say anything,” recalls Bellone, referring to one of three reddish-orange boxes with two white stripes he saw in the back of DeMasi’s ATV. “I said give me a good reason? When they couldn’t, I told them I wouldn’t shut up about it.
“Why should I? I have nothing to hide and nothing to gain. It’s the truth and Nick and I are sticking to our story as we always have.”
In fact, a year ago Bellone said he and DeMasi were not the only 911 rescue workers to see the black boxes, adding there were several other witnesses and knowing first hand
they had aslo been silenced by federal agents.
“I know two or three others saw what went down, but they are not talking,” added Bellone. “They got to those guys after they talked to me. The only reasonI can figure they are trying to hide the truth is that the government knows it screwed up and the recorders would prove it.
“I can tell you this, though, it was all very strange. I worked on the spaceship Columbia clean-up and you know when something important is found and when something is not” he recalled, saying the day the ‘black boxes’ were secretly carted away agents acted like “something big was going down.”
So, four years ago something big went down. The FBI confiscated evidence showing the airplanes hitting the WTC were not jetliners but most likely military cargo drones. One would think in light of this discovery the next logical step would be to force the government to turn over the boxes, leading to case closed since if they turned the boxes over, the evidence demonstrates the lies and, if they don’t turn them over, it demonstrates a cover-up which is equally as bad.
But instead what happens. The back boxes remain hidden and the reason they have never been made public is because most of the American people really don’t care, unfortunately deciding once again to exercise their constitutional right to remain plunked down on the couch in front of the television remaining “happily uninformed.”
And the list of 9/11 evidence ignored doesn’t stop here. The long list of compelling evidence shoved under the rug by the government, left hidden there by an apathetic populace is astounding. It’s so astounding, as they say, it really “blows one’s mind.”
There is, of course, the eye-witness testimony of not less than 30 people and, probably many more, who witnessed explosions in the WTC basement prior to the airplanes hitting the towers.
Then there is the Pentagon evidence and concealment of evidence that provides enough incriminating facts to put Bush and the gang away for a hundred lifetimes.
And, of course, there is the recent BYU physics professor, to name one of a hundred experts, who all concur that the laws of physics demonstrate without question the WTC collapsed from a controlled demolition not jet fuel like the government contends.
“The list of compelling evidence is endless and you don’t need experts to show that the government is lying about 9/11,” said Phil Jayhan, one of the few Americans who chooses to be informed.
In fact, the list of 9/11 evidence showing a government complicity before, during and after is so strong
Source
Let the Truth Fall where it may!
Very interesting, Rabbit. Please…..continue!
I’ve heard the story about the lemmings and the cliff, but I hadn’t heard the one about rabbits hanging themselves.
Perhaps it’s unique to Australia.
Rabbit doesn’t seem to get Vonnegut’s point about information and knowledge not necessarily being the same thing.
No wonder I left this desert land of weeds…
I am not going through a couple hundred posts of drivel, so I may be beating a dead horse, but in response to the notion of alledged suicide hijackers still alive, I quote this from the BBC, which I found one link away from beowulf’s “proof” that this is a conspiracy,
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1553754.stm
The FBI has said that the identities of some of its list of 19 hijackers behind last week’s devastating attacks are in doubt.
It believes that some of the hijackers used false identities, possibly even names of people who are still alive, which could significantly complicate the manhunt.
I will attempt to respond to any sane, brief, concise, relevant retorts.
Hi Jay, good to see you jumping back into the fray.
Jay wrote:
I am not going through a couple hundred posts of drivel, so I may be beating a dead horse
Beating a dead horse is exactly what people who continue to promote this tired myth are doing. I earlier posted this from der Spiegel, which I thought did a pretty good job of putting this and some other myths in their proper perspective, as did your recent reference. (Apologies for the repetition, but the practice seems to be quite in style here just recently.)
What these investigative journalists should have done was to spend a little time listening to those whom they cite as “reputable” sources for their arguments. Take the BBC, for example, which did in fact report, on September 23, 2001, that some of the alleged terrorists were alive and healthy and had protested their being named as assassins.
But there is one wrinkle. The BBC journalist responsible for the story only recalls this supposed sensation after having been told the date on which the story aired. “No, we did not have any videotape or photographs of the individuals in question at that time,” he says, and tells us that the report was based on articles in Arab newspapers, such as the Arab News, an English-language Saudi newspaper.
....We make a call to Jeddah, Saudi Arabia. A few seconds later, Managing Editor John Bradley is on the line. When we tell Bradley our story, he snorts and says: “That’s ridiculous! People here stopped talking about that a long time ago.”
Bradley tells us that at the time his reporters did not speak directly with the so-called “survivors,” but instead combined reports from other Arab papers. These reports, says Bradley, appeared at a time when the only public information about the attackers was a list of names that had been published by the FBI on September 14th. The FBI did not release photographs until four days after the cited reports, on September 27th.
The photographs quickly resolved the nonsense about surviving terrorists. According to Bradley, “all of this is attributable to the chaos that prevailed during the first few days following the attack. What we’re dealing with are coincidentally identical names.” In Saudi Arabia, says Bradley, the names of two of the allegedly surviving attackers, Said al-Ghamdi and Walid al-Shari, are “as common as John Smith in the United States or Great Britain.”
That’s ridiculous!
Finally, a website devoted to debunking many of the “alternative” theories re: 9/11. There is no shortage of material available to the shills for terrorism to feed on, but those of us clinging to the crazy notion that the activist arm of Islam is solely responsible for the events of that day have had to rely mainly upon the boring analyses of fools overeducated in the worthless fields of fire, mechanical and structural engineering, along with the highly suspect and even more boring conclusions of metallurgists and materials experts.
Perhaps I’m simplistic, but I just can’t get past the fact that nobody qualified to specify the structural requirements for building the towers has joined the parade of questionable characters that seem to think they are qualified to determine how they failed. When you start to dissect their theories and claims, it becomes quite apparent that they are motivated not by really wanting to find out the truth about the towers and related events, but by their hatred and disapproval of George W. Bush and the fact that America is actually using *gasp* force to change the equation in the middle east and elsewhere as it relates to Islamic terrorism. If we had simply chalked it all up to “stuff happens”, and referred the whole matter to the FBI and the courts, I sincerely doubt all this would even be an issue on the Internet, much less warranting a stint on “The Situation”.
so I may be beating a dead horse
When one finds oneself riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.
Harnessing several dead horses together is if no use at all.
David,
Your musings are entertaining and I appreciate them, but I can’t help but suspect them to be a device for avoiding taking a clear stand on the issue of whether or not you believe that the WTC towers were deliberately toppled with the help of explosives courtesy of the U.S. govt.
Please explicitly state your belief regarding this controversy, minus the musings.
Additionally, do you consider the armor of someone engaging in holocaust revisionism to be shiny?
Frank A. Demartini, on-site construction manager for the World Trade Center, spoke of the resilience of the towers in an interview recorded on January 25, 2001.
The building was designed to have a fully loaded 707 crash into it. That was the largest plane at the time. I believe that the building probably could sustain multiple impacts of jetliners because this structure is like the mosquito netting on your screen door—this intense grid—and the jet plane is just a pencil puncturing that screen netting. It really does nothing to the screen netting.
Demartini, who had an office on the 88th floor of the North Tower, has been missing since the 9/11/01 attack. 4
How is that Jay?
As architect and physicist Dave Heller (2005) explains:
the floors could not have been pancaking. The buildings fell too quickly. The floors must all have been falling simultaneously to reach the ground in such a short amount of time. But how?. . . In [the method known as controlled demolition], each floor of a building is destroyed at just the moment the floor above is about to strike it. Thus, the floors fall simultaneously, and in virtual freefall. (Garlic and Glass 6)
Most of these 11 features—-all but the slicing of the core columns and the molten steel in the basements—-are features that, if they occurred before or during the collapses of the towers, could have been observed by people in the area. And, in fact, testimonies about some of these phenomena have been available, since shortly after 9/11, from reporters,[36] fire fighters,[37] police officers,[38] people who worked in the towers,[39] and one prominent explosives expert, Van Romero, [40] who said on that very day after viewing the videotapes, that the collapses not only resembled those produced by controlled implosions but must, in fact, have been caused by
Explosions
Several individuals reported that they witnessed an explosion just before one of the towers collapsed. Battalion Chief John Sudnik said:
The importance of these observations is reinforced by the fact that the authors of the NIST Report, after having released a draft to the public, felt the need to add the following statement to the Executive Summary:
NIST found no corroborating evidence for alternative hypotheses suggesting that the WTC towers were brought down by controlled demolition using explosives planted prior to September 11, 2001. . . . Instead, photos and videos from several angles clearly showed that the collapse initiated at the fire and impact floors and that the collapse progressed from the initiating floors downward.
Firefighters Burke and Cachia presumably now need to ask themselves: What are you going to believe, your own eyes or an official government report?
Flashes and Demolition Rings
Some of the witnesses spoke of flashes and of phenomena suggestive of demolition rings. Assistant Commissioner Stephen Gregory said:
Oh, and Natalie
you question a topic broached on a web sight on the fringe, which quickly squashed and dismissed the Olson story for lack of evidence, but you worship at the feet of the mainstream media who carried the lies of the WMDs that lead this nation into an illegal war. Thousands are now dead for that one and you still retain faith in those same institutions. Do explain.
Jay believes raghead media cannot be trusted either. I wonder who conditioned him to believe that one. I find that interesting and possibly leads to his current motivation towards genetic cleansing as he “rebuilds the realm” for the neocons. Well, once like Trotsky, always like Trotsky. I cannot ask them to change their spots. No wonder you are so offended by our constitution. Unfortunately, while we debate this last government op, the government is no doubt planning yet another to get you monkeys to attack Iran and Syria and to reinstate dictorial powers. That way Big Brother can keep you safe.
“Those who would trade liberty for security will descend into tyranny.”
-Ronald Reagan 1981.
Hi Natalie,
I believe that the collapse of WTC 1, WTC 2 and WTC 7 were not the result of the plane crashes into WTC 1 and WTC 2 and/or the subsequent fires.
I believe that controlled demolition with the use of explosives is the most probable cause from the evidence I have studied. Controlled demolition with explosives seems to be the only answer for the collapse of WTC 7.
I have questions about the official story that I feel have not been satisfactorily answered.
What do you think of the collapse of WTC 7?
What do you think of the huge increase in put options on airline stock in the days preceding 9/11?
Maybe this discussion should be moved to a new thread here on ITT called What’s the 411 on 9/11?
Just a reminder that believing is not always the same as knowing. Questioning is not the same as disbelieving.
As for your holocaust revisionism question : Where did that question come from? Are you trying to get me arrested and marched off to the Canadian prison cell so recently vacated when they shipped Ernst Zundel off to Germany?
Maybe one day questioning the official story of 9/11 will be a thought crime too.
Natalie, never the less, this may answer your question : When I agree/disagree with someone about a particular issue it does not prevent me from disagreeing/agreeing with them on another issue.
One more question for you Natalie.
What do you think of the war games being run preceding and on 9/11?
Enough said here. Take yourself to the new thread, where the discussion has already begun, if you care to and maybe you will find me there. Or you may not. I have grown a little weary of watching a nag being flogged.
Thanks for clarifying, David. I admire that you are willing to take a solid stand on the issue; perhaps you did earlier and I didn’t catch it or remember it.
I think you are totally and completely wrong, as do apparently two editors of “In These Times”, but you’re certainly entitled to your conclusions.
As for your holocaust revisionism question : Where did that question come from?
My question about holocaust revisionism stems from the post by Rabbit a little earlier up the page, which questioned whether perhaps that event just wasn’t all that, along with your even earlier describing Rabbit as your “knight in shining armor”. I was simply asking if perhaps you would consider his armor to be tarnished by such a stance. Thankfully, it appears from your statement about separation of issues that you do.
I don’t know about Canada, but I believe it is a crime to question the holocaust in certain countries in Europe. Funny, it isn’t a crime in that oppressive thought controlling region known as America. Here, we only regard refusing to believe the conclusions of every historian worthy of the title and hundreds of hours of eye-witness testimony simply as symptoms of stubborn denial for reasons unfathomable or perhaps unthinkable. The same tolerance and reluctance to jail is extended to folks wishing to imagine practically anything that seeks to de-legitimize our response to the 9/11 attacks by yes….I’m sorry to break it to ya….. hate-filled, racist Muslim murderers. Yours and my very survival may depend on recognizing and acting on this reality. It’s no small inconsequential matter, like debating about crop circles.
The collapse of WTC 7 has been testified to have been expected by senior firefighters on the ground after observing the extreme damage to I believe the south face, and a major bulge in the building, as measured by a transit. They were convinced it would soon collapse, hence the reference to “pulling” people out of harm’s way. It was a somewhat diagonal collapse, as opposed to the straight down “in it’s own footprint” description so often described. I know the video appears to resemble that familiar scene of a controlled demolition, but a lot of things appear to resemble a lot of things, now don’t they?
Extraordinary charges like these demand extraordinary proof, and I simply haven’t seen any yet. Nor, apparently, has anyone else in the world of legitimate, Bush hating journalism. Not to mention the world of structural engineering, which I’m sure contains both Bush haters and lovers, and those in between.
Why in the world would someone bother with wiring teeny little WTC7 with explosives after having just completed the massive task of wiring the two quarter mile high skyscrapers? That just wasn’t enough destruction for the Neocons?
cont…...
pg. 2…..
As far as put options, there appears to be perfectly reasonable explanations for them. In addition to the below linked information, wouldn’t it be logical to assume that certain elements of al Qaeda, perhaps at the highest levels, with definite knowledge of the upcoming attacks might use that knowledge to fill their coffers? Not using their real names, of course, but by way of a complicated laundering operation? Isn’t that just a little more sensible than relying on the assumption that elements of the U.S. govt. would sanction the mass murder of their own citizens? Even Martha Stewart dangled her toes in the insider trading pond. It is so crazy to think that the angels from al Qaeda wouldn’t as well?
“A single U.S.-based institutional investor with no conceivable ties to al Qaeda purchased 95 percent of the UAL puts on September 6 as part of a trading strategy that also included buying 115,000 shares of American on September 10…
Similarly, much of the seemingly suspicious trading in American on September 10th was traced to a specific U.S.-based options trading newsletter, faxed to its subscribers on Sunday, September 9, which recommended these trades”.
Much more
War games preceding 9/11? Now that’s a new one on me. Could it possibly simply be a coincidence? They have been known to occur, pretty much every day in pretty much everyone’s life.
Does it not raise the slightest bit of suspicion in your mind that seemingly everyone who embraces these IMHO crazy theories is anti-Bush and anti-war? You, Rabbit, luminous beauty, (to be fair lb hasn’t committed AFAIK) beowolf, Kevin “Global decisions” Ryan, David Ray “Guess what I learned on the Internet?” Griffin, Morgan “from my imaginary office at Texas A&M” Reynolds, Philip “motion to disbar supremes” Berg, Steven “no, I’m not a Republican” Jones.
I’m sorry. The only nag being truly flogged here is the collection of nagging Internet nonsense known as the 9/11 “truth” movement. Beliefs otherwise are yet another symptom of denial for reasons unfathomable or unthinkable.
Natalie you are the most dishonest person.
Rabbit has never engaged in holocaust denial. You are proving how low you are, what a complete fraud, a liar and a shill. You are the revisionist. You are the one drawing conclusions about entire sites based on your interpretations of the headings of artciles on those sites. You are a fraud.
Doesn’t it seem the teensiest bit logical Natty dear that anyone who realises the truth, or at least realises the government is lying, is going to be anti Bush and anti war. especially since the war was ostensibly started on the back of the LIES about 911.
You sure do lack in the logic department Natty. the perfect companion to the Jay Bird, an idiot and a moron.
Rabbit has not engaged in Holocaust revison, lying shill. That is just the flavour of the month for people with small minds and hysterical ideas, to call anybody who doesn’t agree with you. Which is an increasing number of people by the way.
How sad to have Jay Bird as one’s only choir member.
How’s that fantasy world coming along Natty?
Why don’t you take it over to the relevant thread, there is a 911 thread, especially for mind dwarfs like you dear. It has a starting article which is exactly the sort of thing you would quote as proof that Griffin and Jones are insane.
Muwwakkil makes a great case for trashing your two most hated foes Natty, the weird Timothy Leary like Griffin, and the strange religious freak Jones. He makes the case with all the style and aplomb which we have come to expect from the most contemptible and disgusting Criminal regime ever to have grown like a malignant tumour to engulf half the planet in it’s madness. your empire is doomed and it is high time.
When the rabbit sees such blatant abuse of all the rules of humanity and decency, the most heinous crimes are being justified in your sick and doomed empire. you are actually debating how much torture you should be using, upon innocent people, people largely arrested on the basis of random sweeps and profiling.
When the rabbit sees such as you, towing a line of garbage, trying to make some sort of a patched together imitation of an argument for something which has no life of its own. the gobvernment story is dead in the water despite the biggest propahnda campaign of Earths history. Nothing ever made it stand up and it has been getting worse since, despite almost NO Puppet Media coverage.
There is no arguing with statistics and Natty we got da numbers and dey is a growin.
Meanwhile your supporters are already numbering only the lowest common denominator. Look at Jay, he is the lowest common denominator, he has never achieved a single point of note in his time on ITT. Everything he says is rubbish and he projects like a cimema camera. He has no power of logic or reason, and he is actually famous for it. He believes in you. He will believe in anything which he already believes in. You just have to say what he believes and he sees that as prrof positive and beyond all need to even consider any other possibility.
Anyway, neither he nor you matter. the truth is being spread daily, and it is growing exponentially. It is logical really.
Rabbit has “converted” a Truck driver who has never had any info before but knew somethings were wrong himslef. It is amazing how smart real people are, Natty and Jay.
You guys are just lagging behind. Flat earth society that’s you. We don’t need you, neither the truth nor the race. If you are still clinging onto your delusions this late in the game, then you are not really meant to come with us. your day is coming to an end, you are being separated from the healthy, new man, the Race of slightly more advanced humans, those who have a certain power of cognitive reasoning, which you have failed to establish. The new age is a paradigm shift, seen from one angle, and it is haoppening as we speak. Those who have made it know, they can look back on you but you cannot see that you are separated by a veil. A veil of incomprehension.
For you is the world of superstition and faith. Of comfortable myths and and convenient beliefs. Slogans and Newspeak.
Don’t think just download the program. Don’t blink it is changed again, but don’t think it was always the same.
You are going to be destroyed by the destinies you have wrought, and it is becoming clearer now how and why. Rabbit feels almost sorry for you, but in the end, he knows as you will one day come to know just what you have had a hand in doing.
By the way Natty, if you don’t know about the exercises which effectively covered for the planes on 911, and the uncanny simuilarities in the training scenario and the actual event, then What are you doing spruiking for a cause that you have obviously NO IDEA about?
You might want to compare that co-incidence with BUSH and the rest of the JUNTA actually saying they had never had never ever considered such a scenario.
GIRL CHILD you know NOTHING. If you can sit their like a steaming pile of poop and say you just don’t stink, you are the most craven or the stupidest person I think Rabbit has ever met.
You have a lot of reading and research to do, before you should be wasting the time of others who know more about thjese things than you could in ten lifetimes, at your current rate of growth.
That is of course unless you are a shill, which you are, which is why you can do things even a mind slut like Jay couldn’t bring himslef to. Rabbit has seen him choke over and over, don’t you Jay Bird? You’ve already choked haven’t you, you won’t be back around here, old Jay Bird. Nothing to say except how he knows it all and how he just whups everone’s ass all the time. Jay is the man, just ask him.
Take it to the appropriate thread. You are lurking in a back room cave again. This is one of the reasons rabbit knows you are a vampire. You lurk in the darkness.
Oh and the debunking site you’ve linked too is crap, it is obviously not catering to a very sohisticated audience. Ias far as reaoned argument goes, it is very thin on the ground, it debunks in a few sentences somethings which have been effectively dealt with by some very detailed and well referenced reports.
Rabbit is reminded of the adage that merely because you say it is doesn’t make it so. They have done the same as all the government debunking sites, and made superficial references, homed in on a few isolated facts and a made some glib remark about see how innocent is this really, and then tried to tie the whole lot together as a major debunking exercise. Natty there is less of substance on that crappy little site, than in some single articles deatiling precisely why the Government story is wrong, wrong and lies.
Like David said, you deceitful creature, questioning is not believing.
Rabbit has read enough to know there are questions not over the fact that Many Jews were murdered, but there are questions about who let them be murdered, when they could mostly if not all have been saved. It is incredible how little is recognised of the Bolshevik murders and the Millions more Christians who were murdered by Jews, on the basis of a ZIONIST policy.
That is not revising the holocaust except to add the rest of the story which has been conveniently edited out by a Zionist controlled press.
Go on calling people names based on the headline all you wish, but you are like a silly little chicken peeping at the tree it fell out of, it isn’t listening and it doesn’t care anyway.
Rabbit will not indulge you any more on this thread, when there is an approriate one alive now.
Doubt you’ll go to it, you can’t stand facing more than one Rabbit and a Curious Monkey Fish at once, as rabbit recalls you usually run away until others go everytime more come..
This subject got very serious, but let me address the topic that started it.
If you oppose the war, that doesn’t mean you vote for a democrat that supports the war rather then the republican. you vote for neither. I do think Kucinich sold out, though he did hold on to the very end. I don’t know if that is part of the game or real.
I don’t know if Nader was the real deal or not.
But I do know, that I will not vote for anybody who cannot publicly say that this war is wrong.
check out www.NotOneMore.US and take the Pledge for Peace. Yes, a little sophmoric, but it is a start. We need a culture change that will start the change if we want to become a society based on peace and justice.
peace
www.NotOneMore.US
Good onya Pasword.
This Rabbit…...from the accurately monikered…....... at least of late, land of OZ, salutes the truth. Password has said it, but like truth in general these days, what is it but a goddamned piece of paper?
With Diebold type voting, you don’t even get a piece of paper.
<u>Diebold</u> voting?
Heck, what really bothers me about those machines is the fact that they are programmed by programmers. So what, right? Programmers almost always put a “back-door” or cheat into the program they write. No offense to programmers as I am one, but we just do it because… well… we just do.
As a matter of fact, I heard a story some time ago about one of the Diebold programmers bragging about his “back-door,” but I can’t remember where I read it or where my GF read it to me from. Hmmmm…. I’m not saying that I have total faith in the story, but as a programmer who knows other programmers, I can’t say I would be a bit surprised and I sure as heck am glad that my state doesn’t use them GD Diebold voting machines. We use paper ballots and there isn’t anything in the works to change it as far as I know.
Kucini
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