What’s the 411 on 9/11?

You’re right Wiley...what I remember of my of own young Canadian experience on airforce bases near Bomark missles, where the Yanks used to test fly their jet fighters, is irrelevent. What do I know about their habits? Or the relevence of same to reaction times?

So are the impressions of my father who taught air weapons controllers ( the North East. area, ironically,.He retired from service from Syracuse/Rome, during the downsizing of those bases. I guess he was a shit instructor...lokk what happened!) What does he know about flight crews, air weapon controlling, or anything really.

I guess I could credit my sister, who is an engineer who develops flight simulation programs to help commercial airports improve their efficiency and flight load....she told me about the exercises that were occurring at that time in North East after the fact. She worked out of Heathrow at that time ( a pretty big airport eh? Such a responsibility on her young shoulders, creating that real time exercise, where air traffic controllers reacted to real and simulated flights. I wonder what fail safes were in place during the North East exercise, and if a 5 or 10 minutes wait for the reality sandwich buffet made all the difference in reaction time. I wonder too, about the number of people who are informed about these scenarios in advance....maybe, instead of incarcerating people by ethnic affliation, we should be grilling all air traffic controllers down in Cuba, eh? Because that has to be one of the biggest ‘secrets’ on the planet. There’s probably a few million guilt’ parties, all with their own life agenda, who were privy to that ‘secret’ )

We are a family that are absolutely full of shit, and are informed only by our experience and our education.....a very sad reference indeed.

Whereas Wiley can only be right...not only for the Norad experience, but also for the ability to link to internet sites

Ad hominem, ipso facto

http://miriamwebster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=bullshit

Oh, now you have a sister that made flight simulations? What next? You? So you have all this experience at your disposal and still don’t have enough inside information to find sources on line to share with us.

What have you said besides citing your family and your wishes and your knowledge of simple math? Is everyone supposed to take everything you say at face value. Your father assures you of this or that about 9/11. Now your sister writes exercises. What do you do, besides emote and talk about your family and your yet to be demonstrated math skills?

If being contradicted is all you can take, perhaps you should look for a more accomodating place to express your wishful thinking and your air controlling family ties.

Cut the victim crap.  d

It’s not victim crap....I’m playing your game , but refusing to go to the most idiotic extreme, where I start citing internet websites as representative of some sort of fact.

It’s all part of my stratagem to lessen the bullshit and expand the creative expression of hope and subjective experience on the internet.

Maybe because I find this a very absurd thread, full of paranoia,and pomposity. And you are tenaciously, clinging to it like it’s some sort of life line.

Maybe because I think my delusions are more sensible than yours.

PS. Like So many Americans, you may be” trying to construct a life that makes sense from things”.... you find on the World Wide Web.

I’d say “lol” at this point, usually, to indicate an ironic reference, but that would only raise Wileys hackles.

OMG, how cool! Her sister programs flight simulations and she’s into math? I just adore quadriatics! Here’s one for her to cut her teeth on:

Minerva,
show your stuff by giving me the qaud formula, the vertex, and the intercepts of this problem:

A parabola that passes through ( 10, 26 ), ( 20, 83 ), and ( 30, 128 ). Feel free to use the regression method since that’s how I did part of it.

I just adore women who are into math. That is so sexy! Have fun!

Hey Stinky Pete…

how stinky are you?

Because I want to fix you up with my sister!

Yes, you heard it, my sister needs a man!

Because aside from the fact that she is an engineer, develops flight simulation programs for major airports, and has a black belt in kick boxing, she is now 35 years old and ‘unattached’.

She don’t even have no baby! The family can barely raise it’s collective head, really.

So here’s your chance, fellas, to get next to a woman who has the inside scoop on air traffic controlling, answers to the math problems you can’t figure out yourself, and the 411 on Robert Jordan ( yes...sadly, my sister is an intelligent, flight simulating, kick boxing, sci fi/fantasy appreciating ,no baby no man geek)

Form a line behind Stinky Pete, ok?

BTW, Minerva, my step-father worked for General Dynamics which is now GrummonNorthrup(? (I think)something like that) and there was an air force base adjacent to GD, and jets being tested over our heads, all the day, waking up the babies...I was always informed when another F-111 crashed and burned in Viet Nam…

...but I wouldn’t put that on my resume.

Why are you on this thread, Minerva? If you don’t want to discuss 9/11 with any references not already in your head, why then do you sully your pretty little head?

Seems a little silly to log on, go into a thread discussing 9/11, and to then declare that all other web references are invalid. Can’t you be subjective by yourself? Do you really think you’re doing people favors? Do you really think that you have a life, and we don’t? Are you projecting?

If you don’t want to talk about 9/11, then go to another thread, doll face. You can think anything you want to about your delusions, but when you pay your nickel by posting your delusions then you take your chances. That’s fair. That’s life.

No...but you carry your 28 year old Norad experience like some sort of Mount Olympus torch throughout this side show.

And then use your ability to link to other spurious and paranoid pontificators as ‘proof’.

Just noticing.

Minerva, since your sister is on the cutting edge in air traffic control, what are her thoughts about privatization?

Show me where I said that something was “proof”. Take your time.

And what you are doing in the “side show” if you aren’t a “freak” yourself?

Good questions wiley....I must be a freak too, because I’m compulsively reacting to email nitoifications about updates at this site, simply for my own amusement.

But I’m having a fun time, talking nonsense with you.

Cheers

...and no hard feelings on my part ( although I’m continuing to ignore the reality that you are becoming more reactive and angrier with me)

I guess I’m done, unless Stinky and others want to take the geek spinster sister off our hands...I may have to respond to those posts, because, realistically, my sister isn’t getting any younger.

If you read my posts, you might have noticed that the reason I started talking about my radar experience was because I knew better than to believe that all the air traffic controllers covering all those air spaces could have missed all those planes. Air space is intensely guarded. This is a simple fact.

Air traffic controllers are not “Beetle Baileys”. Oh, and I knew two former marines that were air traffic controllers at O’Hare and L.A. International. Whoop-di-doo. (They were intense.)

The exercise running concurrently with real time on 9/11 was the first thing that made sense to me---whatever you may think about it--- I find it impossible to believe that all those air traffic controllers screwed up while flights were off schedule and deviating from flight plans for 45 minutes to an hour.

While I worked for NORAD we had a false alarm that was caused by someone putting a tape into real time. That problem was addressed by many committees with much fervor, so that that would never happen again. It struck me as particularly negligent for NORAD to be confusing real time air traffic with a simulated exercise. If my experience, and talking about it in a forum in which NORAD is part of the topic bothers you then that’s your problem.

Furthermore, the only site with “paranoid pontificators” I’ve linked to is that last freeper link. Though that article was reprinted in the Boston Globe and many other newspapers, I posted the freeper link because Natalie couldn’t dismiss that as “liberal paranoia”.

Do you have a problem with that? I thought it was fairly rational myself. And if you haven’t noticed, I am fairly tentative with my speech. 

The topic is 9/11---I consider questioning the official story to be a valuable pursuit even if it’s not accredited or approved of by you (who is mysteriously here).

I agree Wiley...when I learned about the exercise from my sister shortly after the attacks, I understood why there was a delay. When I asked my father that day, when we were all watching the news, and hearing the jets scream out, my father only said “there’s a problem”, because he knew the expectations of the job, and knew that first plane would not have hit New York had the air weapons people been more reality focussed....

my sisters insights about the simulations that were being implemented in that period to accomodate the need for increased air traffic, and the links ( some of which I’ve seen at this thread) that she directed me to

helped me understand what my father meant when he said “There was a problem”.

We all knew the reaction time was delayed..in hindsight, the only conspiracy theory I feel comfortable supporting is the probability that the plane that crashed in PA, ostensibly aimed at Washington DC, was shot down by our own military rather than taken down by the ‘Let’s Roll” crew.

I don’t think we’ll ever know the truth about this...we are so imperfect, and have so much to protect, that our history can only reflect our basic confusion about our history..
anything else is a lie, I guess.

Sorry if I offended you Wiley.

I got carried away

answers to the math problems you can’t figure out yourself

Actually, the problem is rather simple and quadriatic regressions are taught here around the 8th grade...it’s considered simple math and is quite a necessity to both pilots and anyone else that needs to know the trajectory of an object or even to figure out how to make a water fountain that doesn’t squirt somebody in the eye.

After doing the quadriatic regression method (the other is much longer), we come up with the quadriatic formula:

y = -0.06X^2 + 7.5X - 43

from there, we are able to grab the a, b, and c from the equasion for the quad formula.

a= -0.06 b= 7.5 c= -43

Then we take the quadriatic formula and plug in the values for what we have to get the X intecepts:

(-(7.5)±√((7.5)^2 - 4(-0.06)(-49)) / (2(-0.06))

X ints = (0,6.0236), (0,118.976)

The Y int is what is shown as c:

Y int = -43

The X vertex is simply gained by the formula:

(-(7.5)) / (2(-.06))

X vertex = 62.5

The Y vertex is gained from plugging the X vertex into the original formula (standard form):

y = -0.06(62.5)^2 + 7.5(62.5) - 43

Y vertex = 191.375

So since we know that the vertex is a given point (X,Y), we also know that we just plug in our axis vertexes to get:

Vertex = (62.5, 191.375)

See how simple that was?

Jeez, I thought you were good at “simple math.” I feel kinda’ cheated because trajectory and projectile paths are dependant on this kind of simple math and you seemed so sure of yourself.

About your sister, I already have a young 12 year old girl and I have no problem getting dates here. If she is indeed true to your description, I hope she is the one who reproduces because she sounds smart as a whip. Good for her! Since I program myself, I am thrilled to hear about a fellow programmer. We are hot!

I’ll leave you to the witch. Good luck, kiddo!

Since that part about the girl of 12 sounds strange, I should clarify it by explaining that I meant that I already have a duaghter of 12. I was once married, but now I am deeply involved with a woman who I’ve been with for somewhere around the 6 years since my divorce.

~Pete

OK Stinky Pete…

Sorry about dropping that ball on the sideshow test…

I’ll practice my juggling.

Sorry to hear you’re all hooked up…

you sound like the sort of sexy geek my sister would enjoy meeting.....

if you find yourself suddenly free, watch my sister, Lara, on Jeopardy next month.

She is the cutest engineering, Robert Jordan afficionadoing, air traffic programming, kick boxing black belt you ever met. For a 35 year old, no baby spinster that is..

I hope she wins some cash so she can pay her home off.

Hail Lara!

I’m sorry Stinky...I’ve already alerted the FBI to you, suggesting that you may be intimate with 12 year olds…

oops!

The message you posted was so ambiguous, I could only interpret it in the worst possible way…

who would decypher the idea that you were the parent of a young girl?

I ask you?

<b>I’ve already alerted the FBI to you<b>

Okay, it was a horrible construct of a sentence. I am the kind of guy that think that I may be arrested for watching a movie with Jessica Alba in it because she just looks so young. I’m into women that are usually a bit older that me and my girlfriend is about 8 years my senior...but man, is she hot and smart to boot… Lucky me!

<b>For a 35 year old, no baby spinster that is<b>

Well, she may just like being free for all the studs to drool over.

So, everything is peachy. Cool. I will be nice to you. 

Yeah, I knew there was something wrong from the go, and that is was more than an error among controllers.

BTW, there is a lot of very good and solid information on the net, just like there is a lot of very good and solid information in a library. The net is where I found the date of my false alarm and the official explanation. My captain lied. The web is where I found Bruce Blair---a missilier, head of the Center for Defense Information and a font of information. Lots and lots of very good information on the web. You can even e-mail people with questions, and in my experience I’ve found that there’s a real good chance of getting an answer back.

Yeah, that’s all the web is---one huge library, address book, and mailbox . And the PC is a little typewriter and a huge filing cabinet.

I and Rabbitellonia, for sure think that something is more than a little fishy here with the official story. I don’t buy it. Period. Rabbitabilia is more over the top than I am, but there is always some grist for the miggle, or whatever in the links he posts.

I believe that it is entirely possible to learn the truth about what happened on 9/11.

Stinky Pete!---don’t ever write a sentence like that again!  Good Gawd, and good grief, you should have had your 12 year old daughter proofread it for you.

SLAP!!!

SLAP!!!

You’re right, witch...*SIGH*...and it stinks that the preview function on this thread doesn’t work (at least for me). I felt like a maroon for not catching that fubar error. In my defense, I am somewhat sedated from having a day surgery procedure done today. They told me that I would feel the effects for 24 hours.

Oh, well…

Under the influence, hey? Not a bad defense.

I didn’t look at your math. You can keep that in your pants too.

Minerva

For you to say this:

Because (and I hope you’ll excuse this statement as the ravings of a woman with little diplomacy) I do not find the ‘facts’, url’s, and conspiracy theories being presented at this website particularly telling.

Is ridiculous, and I’m saying this as the straight talk of a rabbit with with lots of diplomacy, but little urge to engage it here.

You cannot possibly have read even half of the sources, the articles or the postings on this thread, and yet make such a bland and totally preposterous statement.  You have advanced NOTHING but feeble mewing “hopes” that the world isn’t so nasty. 

BAD LUCK my little DRONGO!

The world is far worse, than you could possibly concieve of yet, for you are still stuck on base 1.  The whole process begins by recognising that 911, was a giant, elaborate CON JOB.

Can you really think that SO MANY intelligent and qualified people, in rapidly increasing numbers, and including the governments of several nations, are making it all up?

The USA is collapsing from within and from without, the economy is a basket case, the military is stretched to the max, and is about to be deployed in even more insane and desperate adventures which have NO justification except OIL and ISRAEL in the case of IRAN and ISRAEL only in the case of <a href"http://rense.com/general69/syra.htm">SYRIA.</a>

You can’t even manage a little storm anymore without massive national disaster still ongoing.

Oz had a more powerful storm a week ago and it didn’t do shit, we build the Northwest towns to take it.  Cuba coped with a bigger and worse storm a month or two before the USA failed dismally to cope with Katrina.  You’re all washed up, and you still think its all apples.

Minerva you are in abject denial, and are coming across as a bit hysterical and an idiot.

Read about the ONLY reason the US is going to attack Syria.

Oh MY GOD.  The rabbit is beside himself.  He is amused...very much.  What a darling little twit.

This is so extraordinary that Rabbit will be adding it to a special collection of weird things Trolls say.

It’s not victim crap....I’m playing your game , but refusing to go to the most idiotic extreme, where I start citing internet websites as representative of some sort of fact.

You are the only one admitting to any delusions, but it is good to see you have reached this point in your little episode of self therapy.  Your delusions are only more sensible because you don’t have to change any deeply held beliefs by deluding yourself.  Rational people, do alter their beliefs if it becomes necessary.  It is necessary when you have been told a lie to accept it. 

Minny

No doubt you would take a lot of convincing your partner was being unfaithful, but there comes a time when you are being so ridiculous that to continue to delude yourself he is faithful is pathetic.  You have crossed that Rubicon.  You are Pathetic.  It saddens Rabbit to tell you this, but you are being so transparently pathetic in your BEGGING for us to affirm your delusions have some merit.  The bastards are making Torture LEGAL, they are using Depleted Uranium and poisoning the troops.  56% of the Gulf War veterans are disabled.  The first and second wars were 5% and the Vietnam war was 10% disabled veterans, the Gulf war was 56%.

The government isn’t just a bit careless, or fiscally irresponsible, it has blown everything.  Blown the biggest Budget surplus in history, under Clinton, and turned it into a deficit which has the world standing in SHOCK and AWE.

The government isn’t a bit heavy handed, they have used the US military to attack illegally a sovereign nation and laid that nation waste whilst Torturing and killing civilians in the thousands.  They are making Torture and arrest withgout trial part of law. 

They are not honest, patriotic and they don’t give a fuck about you, or anyone who doesn’t already know he’s got a ticket out.  The POTUS called the CONSTITUTION a GODDAMNED PIECE OF PAPER!  He is not a CHristian, he has never been seen inside a Chruch, did you know that dearie?  He would probably catch fire if he set foot inside a holy church.

We know why you persist in your delusions, the fear of dropping the blanket over your eyes must be horrible.

Well sweetie, things are getting abit desperate, and you are actually in the way.  So if you don’t want to get that blanket off your eyes and face the horrible truth, you are faced with getting out of the road, or maybe you should justy succumb to your life’s angst, and kill yourself.

That same government is gearing up to attack two more middle eastern countries, thus further stretching the military, not to mention making a few hundred Million slightly darker shaded people very pissed off.

This war on terror isn’t going very well for you is it my pets?

Do you think that bombing the shit out of a peaceful nation going about it’s lawful business according to the treaty it has signed and never broken, is going to endear you to the other middle eastern countries? 

Do you think attacking Syria, for which there can be no discernable reason except to do the bidding of Israel is going to advance the war on terror?

Do you really Minny? 

The only thing holding up the whole deck of cards for you is one thing 911. To accept the obvious, something which more and much smarter people than you have completely accepted and that is that the offiical story of 911 is a crock of crap.  It is a huge coverup, and what should be scaring you chicken, is not that this is so, but that it must be obvious that they cannot keep the lid on something like this for long, at the present rate the final nail is due anytime, the 911 In Plane Sight screened here on prime time commercial TV a couple of weeks ago.  That is mainstream, and it’s an indication that the whole knowledge of the lie is becoming mainstream.  It is impossible to hold back the flood of truth on this scale. 

That should worry a thinking person a lot. 

Obviously they could never have expected to have to hold the illusion for long.

So why don’t they need to cover the truth for long?

“The problem here Nat is there has never been a spontaneous collapse of a skyscraper like this before or since.  To assert that firemen are trained to recognize such an imminent collapse is an unsupported, disingenuous....”

luminous, the collapse was hardly spontaneous.  By all accounts, and there are many, there were intense unattended fires burning in the building for many hours.  There was extensive damage deep into one of the building’s faces, which I believe was integral to the structure.

You say there had never been such a collapse before, but that begs the question:  Has there ever been an example of a similarly designed building having had tons of steel and other burning materials crashing down beside it from a thousand feet up, damaging it extensively?  The example must also include subsequent intense unfought fires burning for seven hours, fed by a 42,000 gallon diesel supply.  The example must also be a building that employed “transfer trusses”, which enabled the building to be built above multistory electrical transformers, which can apparently sound somewhat bomb-like when exploding:

holy.....

“It is more likely that having just seen two buildings collapse in a completely unforeseen fashion they were thinking in an ad hoc fashion that maybe any burning building might collapse.”

Perhaps all those professional firefighters were all just overreacting.  More likely though, they understood that burning buildings do collapse, especially when left to burn unchecked after having suffered severe structural damage. There was a big bulge in 7.  There was creaking coming from the structure. There was a huge diesel tank inside.  There were diesel lines running from it to other floors.  There were intense fires.  With these realities, not opinions, what sane person wouldn’t suspect the building might collapse?  I acknowledge that the previous collapses influenced their suspicions, but I hardly think they were rendered hypnotized zombies by it.  (BTW, I’m a little confused on how those bombers kept those explosives that were pre-planted from going off during the previous 7 or so hours of intense fires.  Perhaps you can clear that up for me.)

“You are going to have to do better than that.  If you carefully read the testimony, the firemen are repeating things (conjectures) they heard about building 7 at best third-hand in a chaotic situation with poor communications; little more than gossip, certainly nothing even resembling expert testimony.  Banaciski’s testimony of the collapse of the north tower, however, is the account of a first hand eye witness.”

How can you embrace Banaciski’s testimony about explosions, calling it first hand, and at the same time impugn his also first hand testimony about the damage to 7?:

“We were up on the upper floors of the Verizon
building looking at it. You could just see the whole bottom
corner of the building was gone......”

Reads like first hand to me.  What am I missing?  Conjectures?  Gossip?  Come on now.  I think you’re talking about Rense.com, not the NYFD.  You’re going to have to do better than that.

“...... Show me you can distinguish between a fact and an opinion.”

Still waiting for a fact from you or anyone that provides any real substantive proof that the towers were deliberately imploded.  Still waiting for one structural engineer to validate your claims.  Still waiting for this wacky theory to move off the Internet rumor section, and into legitimate, fact checking journalism.  It’s been what, four plus years?

If you choose to join this weird movement, which irresponsibly seeks to simultaneously accuse unnamed Americans of murder and exonerate al Qaeda, you are unfortunately required to provide something more in the way of proof than “some people heard some booms”, and “look at that video and see that puff of smoke!” That’s my opinion.

Minerva are you trying to set your sister up for a date or a gang bang?

So here’s your chance, fellas, to get next to a woman who has the inside scoop ........., my sister .......
Form a line behind Stinky Pete, ok?

Little Minny Chicken, you are a freak show baby.

Oh woopee, the greatest Liar and professional Shill on the block.

Back to deny Gravity, History, Witnesses, Video and Recorded evidence some more Natty, and pretend that you just hatched out of the egg all shiny and new again?

Like a Virgin, touched for the very first time?

Touched in the head.  You would be a nut job except you are a shill, which is disgusting.

Did you see this dirty mangy Shill bat.

Depleted Uranium, Natalie’s Baby is getting bad press. Oh no, Natty they are telling LIES, someone needs to be dirtied, and you are just the little pie thrower needed to put crap on someone.

He added, “Out of the 580,400 soldiers who served in GW1 (the first Gulf War), of them, 11,000 are now dead! By the year 2000, there were 325,000 on Permanent Medical Disability. This astounding number of ‘Disabled Vets’ means that a decade later, 56% of those soldiers who served have some form of permanent medical problems!” The disability rate for the wars of the last century was 5 percent; it was higher, 10 percent, in Viet Nam.

It is off topic, but it should really get up Natty’s nose, for she loves DU more than she loves the lies about 911.

Natty you’ve had upwards of a dozen engineers and professors and many more highly credible witnesses and opinions given.

It has been proven with science, shown with visual evidence and attested to by numerous witnesses, that the WTC’s were not only brought down with the aid of explosives, but that the planes which hit the two WTCs and the Pentagon were not even the planes they were supposed to be.  You have ignored a LOT, but it is still there and everyone can see it.  Reading down the thread you just come across as a lunatic in staggering denial.

The fact that the mere acceptance of the quite obvious and increasingly mainstream idea that the JUNTA lied about everything or anything, is sufficient for you to disqualify their opinion as being biased. 

That would be hilarious if it was a satirical comedy skit.

It isn’t funny though.  It is actually something you are trying to palm off as an OPINION. 

Well you don’t really have any opinions Natalie, let’s be honest here.  Or since you cannot, Rabbit shall be honest on your behalf.  You have the opinions you are paid to have.  You are a professional Shill.  You are a waste of money, that’s the truth, but considering the performance of this administration you are about par for the course.  Opinions and repeated ditto to re-inforce the ever weakening program.  You are wasting your time around here, Shill, nobody does anything except use you to show the poverty of the official case.  you are a great example of the crashed and burnt Shill.  When will your masters wake up that you are a goner?  Don’t you scumbags get monitored to make sure you are worth the judas silver they pay you?  What kind of truth needs paid propaganda pieces to shill for it?

The PROOF is in the bag., The smoking guns of 911 are abounding and some of them are smoking Cannon.  You are still dancing about on puny details when you never yet faced anything of substance. 

You are peripheral to the whole thing you were always, no amount of denial by turkeys like you and Minny is going to sway anyone who isn’t at least as screwed in the head as Minny.  The girl’s a nincompoop.  A neurotic nancy, a fruit cake, you can see it can’t you Nat?  There’s your supporters.  Feel good about progress do you?

Any rational adult can detect Minny is near the edge.  She is nearly hysterical and seems brittle, on the balance of breakdown.  She is as much as articulating that she is deluding herself because she is afraid of the consequences of accepting reality.  Can’t we all just smile and hug each other, and pretend everything is sweet? 

She is eaten up by paranoia and irrational blather, pointless boasting and she is practically begging people to stop talking about it.

That’s your choir Natalie.  That’s your troops.  Bold in the face of adversity are they not?

Natty is doing all that buring building, big scary fires stuff again. 
You are pretending you have not already been around that silly bush a few times already and with nothing to show for it but more Proof the Official story is a LIE.

Oh that’s right, that was on another thread.

I’d guess nobody is going to bother Nat.  We have been there for anyone who cares, You can’t learn anything, sinece you’re a shill. You are of no further use, except as a punching bag.

Who wants first hit of the Vampire Shill of Depleted Uranium Hill?

Come and wack the Bat, it is starting to annoy the rabbit.

Nat,

You fail the fact test.  The central fact in question (this is the question I am asking you!) is the total symmetrical collapse of three skyscrapers in the same day and same location.  Something that has never, never, ever, ever happened before or since as a natural (spontaneous) unfolding of uncontrolled catastrophe, but has happened many, many times as a controlled, engineered, conscious action.  Which is the more rational explanation?

You can pretend to fail to comprehend this all you want, but what I want is a thorough, extensive, and complete scientific explanation.  If you can provide such an explanation I would love to hear it.  Otherwise you are just playing a game of he said/she said about inconsequential matters.  This is mere pointless discursiveness in this kind of open forum. 

Again the central question is to explain the symmetry and totality of the buildings’ collapse.  Tu sabe?

Hello, Lumens---didn’t mean to leave you out of the not buying it roster. You are so patient. So focused
Yo se (?) Have you seen the Tom Tomorrow cartoon Rabbit linked to for WTH?

Rabbitacio if I had your knack for whacking on a regular basis....damn, damn, damn!!! The time I spent in charm school---wait. That was someone else. Nevermind.

You crack me up, Wabbitari. I have vicarious joy mit you.

I am taking a week off to pretend that I’m not obligated to work and to have flu-like symtoms. During this time, I intend to study this thread well and to allow no further distractions (or very few, anyway) from taking apart the official story where 9/11 is concerned. Something along the line of that Tom Tomorrow cartoon for the circular arguments refuting 9/11, hey? You and Lumens are good with that kind of specificity and structure. I like to rummage through the web and read compulsively.

This is amazing that refutation of the official story is going to be in the mainstream media. I’m almost afraid to look, and I don’t scare easily.

Am bucking up to read your Syria link.

Minerva, if you want to preserve your innocence, you might want to steer clear of this issue. It’s not pretty.

Good luck to your sister. Perhaps she can take air disasters for $500.  Combing through the history of air traffic control control and the establishment of the FAA, I have been given the impression that they do have a tradition of learning the hard way.

Stinky did you finish your homework? I hope you’re not going to make a habit of expressing yourself mathematically.

Perhaps she can take air disasters for $500

The Mayflower! (obscure joke)

I hope you’re not going to make a habit of expressing yourself mathematically

Laugh it up, Witch....if it wasn’t for people like me, you’d be using a typewriter to express your wit and you know it. You’re still my favorite witch, though.

Not to belittle the victims or make light of the perpetrators of 9/11, but to poke fun at those who would rather not look. 

Lt. Pervis: Commander Murdoch?

Commander Murdoch: What’s the problem, Lieutenant?

Lt. Pervis: The Mayflower, sir---she’s coming in hotter than a firecracker, sir.  Their computer is down, they’ve lost their crew, and they’re flying on manual control, sir.

Commander Murdoch: We better get to the tower, Lieutenant.

Lt. Pervis: We have no tower, sir.

Commander Murdoch: We have no tower?

Lt. Pervis: Just a bridge, sir.

Commander Murdoch:  Why the hell aren’t I notified about these things?

Commander Murdoch:  How would you handle this?

Lt. Pervis: We could try ignoring it, sir.

Commander Murdoch: I see. Pretend nothing has happened and hope everything turns out alright in the morning.

Lt. Pervis: Just a thought, sir.

Commander Murdoch: I’ll consider that. 

Commander Murdoch: There’s got to be a better angle.

Gee, Stinky Pete, I forgot to swoon with gratitude. Remind me to do that later.

What thinks you about the official story of 9/11?

[url="http://www.terrorize.dk/911/wtc1dem5/911.wtc.1.demolition.east.1.wmv" href ="http://internal.indymedia.org/local/webcast/uploads/metafiles/outoftheskywtc.e explosionsfiedtx.mov">From the Sky</a>

<a ]East Tower Goes Down[/url]

<a href ="http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~2aday/temp/demolition.mpg">Controlled Demolition</a>

Look kinda’ similiar?

If terrorists did that, they were smart enough to set up the charges beforehand which means that they had full access to the buildings. And if they did have access, then who gave it to them and why? The only thing I can think of is to scare Americans enough to follow blindly into a campaign of hate.

Did you see the new Osama tape? Maybe Osama really was in on the whole crashing the planes scam, but those planes don’t do the kind of damage that would bring a modern skyscraper down that fast....unless maybe it was built by Brown and Root (Haliburton Subsidiary). if indeed Osama and his followers planned that attack, somebody made dang sure he had the cards stacked in his favor. And wasn’t it Dubya Dink who made a big joke out of him hitting the “trifecta?”

It seems kind of fishy that we are talking about bringing charges against GW Dink and all of the sudden he gets to be this big hero again because Osama has sent us a tape telling us how unsafe we are...too bad we can’t actually see the whole tape because the rest (probably the part where he tells everybody what hand he had in any attacks) is deemed not “newsworthy.”

Dang links didn’t work!

Here are cut and paste versions of the missing ones:

Some guy waving his shirt before the tower falls:

http://internal.indymedia.org/local/webcast/uploads/metafiles/outoftheskywtc.exp plosionsfiedtx.mov

A controlled demolition:

http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~2aday/temp/demolition.mpg

Grrrr!!! Okay, now I’m getting mad! I guess that one with the guy will not work unless you go through the homepage and scroll to find the video here:

http://internal.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=1389&group=webcast

I really hate it when I can’t get something to work right! At any rate, the point I’m making is that the towers coming down look identical to a controlled demolition. Anybody who has seen the towers collapse and has seen a building demolished and can still say that a plane did that kind of damage and dropped a building that fast...really has their head up their butt.

It’s not particularly hard to cut and paste a web address Mr. Stinky. 

<a href=” http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~2aday/temp/demolition.mpg">demolition>/a&g gt;

Oh. Now I’m mad.

demolition

Stinky Pete,

The cut and paste works if you delete the space and extra ‘t’ where the line is broken.  It’s them pesky boolean operators. yes? no? oops!

Stunning piece of footage, by the way.  A compelling and compressed bit of visual narrative.

Bang! Bang! Bang!

http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~2aday/temp/demolition.mpg

Yep. Cut and paste works. Wonder what makes this link so hard to shrink.

This oughtta do it.

tinyurl is useful here, sometimes.

Wow. Imagine standing on top of that building when it collapses. It’s a free fall. My stomach rides up to my tonsils just watching this thing. There are no jerks when one floor hits the floor beneath it. There’s no bam, bam, bam, bam with each bam growing heavier and clunkier than the one before it. There are no hunks sliding off the sides*. There is only one fluid jhoop and then that now all too familiar cloud of boiling dust.

*In the case of the WTC, there is no keeling over in one direction or the other that might reflect something other than a completely symmetrical and balanced load of furnishings and people. There is simply no explanation for the lack of large chunks of debris and the symetric and neat fall of the towers, aside from controlled demolition or a new kind of bomb. I’d wager on demolition.

Tiny URL, huh?

Thanks, I hate broken code. Let’s give it a whack!

Not Suprised?!

It works well. Thanks, luminous beauty!

On the North and South towers I think they used something very hot in the basement, probably thermite.  This has probably been at various points through the core of the building, and was detonated just prior to the planes striking.  There are numerous witness to such an explosion including one person who was injured in it, while in the basement levels.  This was before the planes hit the building.  In this way the central columns which were essential to the vertical load bearing, were eliminated or severely weakened at the outset.

The fires at the crash sites, began with large, apparently assisted fireballs which obviously and measurably consumed all the fuel available in those planes.  This highest temperature would have momentarily been high enough to soften steel, if it was sustained for MANY hours, but it wasn’t.  Within seconds, most all of the fuel was gone, fireballs like that are not normally achieved without an explosive included, despite what you see on the movies.  Or better still, exactly what you see on the movies.  The explosions of cars and planes which goes on in the movies is pyrotechnic effects, To get a good fireball like that, you can’t just hurl a tank of fuel hard and ignite it as it shatters. 

What we would do is use a good old fashioned Gunpowder (Blackpowder), mine for example to vaporise and ignite the clowd of fuel almost simultaneously, under what amounts to pressure.  Then you get a big flashy fireball like those planes.  Real crashes are just not quite so symetrical and efficient.  As a pyrotechnician I recognise some enhancement of what happened on impact.

Whilst starting hot as the fuel burnt and ignited secondary fuel like furniture, curtains carpets and clothing and people, people burn well after a bit of a start, the fire quickly became fuel rich and oxygen starved.  This made for a much cooler fire, and it was evidenced by the thick black smoke.  By this time the temperature at no point of the fire would have been more than a barbecue.

The buildings fell very suddenly, after the fires had onviously been cooling for some time.  Any stressed structure due to heat, would have been regaining it’s strength, or have done so.  The collapse was initiated by more charges, which though in reverse of the normal sequence, running down the building, they preceded the fall exactly as one would expect.  There is obviously no more or less resistance to the fall of the building at the start or finish of their collapse, it is as if the entire lower part of the building beneath the plane strikes had turned into jelly, or yet water.

WTC-7 clearly shows the central column giving way as it is obviously cut, with charges and the whole collapse proceeds precisely as a normal controlled demolition.

Nobody will ever succeed in proving anything different.  No matter how many fools try to paint the day as night, it is right in front of your eyes to see.

It walked and quacked and looked like a duck.  It was a bloody duck.  Natty and Minny would like to believe it was a unicorn, but it was a duck!

Agreed Rabbit.
I looked into the supporting “""evidence""" in the article which started this thread.
The PRA site no longer links to their chip berlet review of griffin’s book, and his reply. Funny, that.
Then found www.oilempire.us/index.html which details fordfoundation support to PRA/berlet , Amy Goodman, and company.
There is obviously and understandably a disinclination of these bods to lose their jobs if they dare to investigate 911 seriously. They are allowed to be “radical” on the plight of the Sudanese, etc, but 911 Is No Go.

Thanks Frog.  There is no substitute for thoroughness.  I rather hoped they were inviting the real message to be heard, by being so feeble and cretinous in their attempt to sling off at Jones and Griffin. Nay I fear the threads have no bearing on anything, existing as they do in a bubble. 

Too bad. So the public face of ITT is such garbage as Muwakkil’s piece, without the straightening out we give it, I take it.

......................^^..............................

Rabbit remains, watching for the frog...................................... Rabbit is always interested in frogs.

Is rabbit to be found at 1963 The Rabbit Hole ? i wonder if you have nongatemindered OZ sites to recommend ?
i used to be a netizen at guardian talk, at the time of the clintonblair war on yugoslavia,but its gone down a puerility drain last time I looked.

Frog hadda nice googleprowl stalking the PRA. At first glance they looked just like us, research into ex-nazi emigration to the US etc, probably solid research by Russ Bellant, but there they stopped. it seems. Could have gone on to Prescott Bush and his lovely friends…

Webster Tarpley looks a star .( 9/11 synthetic Terror has good reviews.) I read his book “George Bush the unauthorised biography “ on the net, and it crosschecks with a large large XXXXl number of other researchers/witnesses.  He was a real Star Criminal with irancontra and megacokesmuggling only a few of his activities.

Did you suss 911 straight away ? It took me months to re-educate meself enough away from the iniitial horrified reaction “"They Couldn’t Do THAT”, but the evidence just went on mounting up .
By coincidence 10minutes after hearing the news on 911 i had to teach an adult class. One of them spent 6months in hospital after torture by Kissinger’s friends in Chile 1975. He was lucky, the RedCross found him before he could be “terminated”.

dave Lindorff on DU is valuable, see counterpunch article.

i liked the Power Structure Research bit, in the article. Yeah, one sure needs to be seriously Structuralistically sociological confronted by the Russian/Israeli/Turkish/Albanian Mafia and their yankee and japanese colleagues !

Griffin implied that Berlet obviously hadn’t done his homework; which is really funny when those are the very words of our mr mowakkil, who hasn’t done his either ?

is rabbit in WA? forget timedifference to frogland, so sending now

Yes, at first reaction to the WTC’s collapse on TV, which is the first thing I saw when opening my eyes on the day, I felt I was looking at special effects. It took quite a while of watching about a half hour to realise it wasn’t a movie.

The initial shock meant I didn’t think about that again until a few months later, and then bit by bit I heard things which made me look ate all again, and then I accepted the truth very quickly. 

Rabbit has long since known what sort of scum run not only the USA but also Oz.  This is why Rabbit saw Port Arthur was all wrong and WACO too, even without help.  Some things even a rabbit can figure out.

Once you have accepted this once though it makes it easier to see through them from then on.  Best to break those illusions early and get on with avoiding personal extinction, eh Frog?

Rabbit is in WA, what is this 1963 The Rabbit Hole ?

1963 is this rabbit’s year of birth, but what is it?  Rabbit shall look at it and come right back.

Rabbit, it looked too much like the recent TV demolitions of frog tower blocks of “social housing” to me too, but it took months to come back to, as well, and then it all accelerated.

1963 .... Frog is not a mole, just likes the occasional google,and will also get another hotmail address to avoid hatemail when he croaks truth to innocent sheep ! He assumes GCHQ already have him on file.

Frog just heard a trailer for the friday night funny on BBC radio 4. it was done by ossamabinladen, that well known Brit comic, so now pops out in his frogmobile to get a Sixpack, and hopes to have a good larf when he gets back.

have they canonised kerrypacker yet ? My OZ friends tell me the place going fastly nazi, just like everywhere except venezuela and friends. Seeya mate

Hey, frog.

I can’t say exactly why I was expecting something big that would change everything but I was, and I said as much to a friend on many occassions. I’m not offering this as proof or evidence, of course, am just saying what my thoughts were when I first saw television coverage of the attacks.

So when I saw the video of 9/11 I thought this was “it” and that there is no way those plans made those buildings fall like that. No way.  I was also struck by how neatly pre-packaged it all was. “Ground Zero”? Hero firefighters. It was too much like a movie. “Let’s Roll”? It was a b grade movie.

And, now that you’ve mentioned it, frog, bin Laden appearing on what looks like the stage in an elementary school auditoreum looking like an arab Barney Rubble? And now he’s doing audio only. Did he blow his whole inheritence on 9/11? Or did he stuff it all into a thong?

Griffin has written an article about the omissions and distortions in the 9/11 commision’s report.

Here is how the list begins:

Given this clarification, I now list the omissions and claims of The 9/11 Commission Report that I, in my critique of that report, portrayed as lies:

1. The omission of evidence that at least six of the alleged hijackers---including Waleed al-Shehri, said by the Commission probably to have stabbed a flight attendant on Flight 11 before it crashed into the North Tower of the WTC---are still alive (19-20).

Can anyone explain why this illustrious and expensive commission failed to address this issue?

WILEY, you were awake before me. Bin laden, hereafter OBL, was once a very good friend of the CIA, like Saddam who was recruited in 1959. Takes me back to me youth. NOW, maybe he’s still an associate, or maybe he’s dead from kidney failure. Anyhows, modern technology is with us,and he can still “speak”.

The six dead/alive hijackers are equally freaking. I really didn’t think the cia/fbi were so smart to present them to us so fast. And then there was the magically intact passport for Mohammed Atta, and then the “How To fly a PLANE , (duh!) videos and manuals in the hirecar. And then 300 more incongruities.

Maybe they are doing it on purpose. Testing the public to see how far they can go, being amazed, and then pushing some more ? And then some more . And again. And again. And Again.

WOW ! We can do whatever we want.

That does appear to be the case, frog. Though the terrorist stock market balloon turned to lead pretty quickly. TIPS didn’t go over so well.....

Hmmm. No one picked up the colony on mars ball and ran with it, but I think that was just another made-you-look misdirection. Other than that, they’ve pretty much sold it all.

I actually was looking for a link to a story about OBL being buried in an unmarked grave in Pakistan. His obituary--- according to one source---was published in a Pakistani newspaper. Who knows? I got distracted and found a few 9/11 tidbits that I’ll go back to soon.

But I’m wondering why OBL leaves the translation up to the CIA---an agency he should know all too well. I sometimes wonder if OBL speaks or spoke the Queen’s English. If not, I can’t imagine him having a hard time finding a faithful accomplice to translate for him. I don’t understand why he wasn’t “in our face” in the video. This guy is blue blood, and whatever you think about him, you have to admit that he is/was confident, right? He’s the big cheese of terrorism, for crying out loud! And now, he has released a voice recording. Was he having a bad hair day?

Now, we’re supposed to trust the CIA? I never understood the concept of trusting a governmental body whose whole existence and survival depends on secrecy. I don’t know which makes less sense---trusting the CIA with sensitive information or trusting Wall Street with retirement funds.

I was just starting to read an article by Robert Fisk that starts with Why only audio? A friend and I started talking and he brought up the Taliban banning television, and we were skating around with this issue, and I said, if they have cells all around the world then somebody can go into a Best Buy, or whatever, and by a freakin’ video camera. Hell, they could knock out tourists and take their cameras, then it occurs to me that:

IF THESE “TERRORISTS” CAN’T GET A VIDEO-CAMERA, THEN WHAT KIND OF THREAT ARE THEY? REALLY?! 

YOU COULD SEND A 12 YEAR OLD OUT WITH NOTHING BUT CHEWING GUM IN THEIR POCKETS, AND IF YOU TOLD HIM/HER NOT TO COME HOME TIL THEY GOT A VIDEO CAMERA, THEY’D PROBABLY COME HOME, TONIGHT, WITH A VIDEO CAMERA.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

These assholes aren’t even trying, anymore.

correction: bin Laden’s will was published in an Egyptian newspaper.

Wiley,
i skimmed the fisk at truthout. He thinks OlB recorded it, then I would guess, SOP would be to go a few 100kms to send it down a telephone line. Security.That’s if he’s alive, and it was him ! Fisk reckons he’s done his job, created al qida, and that’s that.

My take on this is that it is not an org like GM or IBM, just a loose association of dozens of grouplets, franchisees as it were, who use the name to strike fear, which plays the game of the War on Terror groupies on “our” side. Each little group has a mixture of war aims, mostly local . It appears that the vast majority of them are penetrated/ surveilled by security services. For finance, most are involved in crime, as the several terrorist groups in northern ireland were.

I recommend daniel ganser on operation gladio, where rightwing terrorists planted a series of bombs in italy.With the connivance of the security services. Why ? It suited elements of the government, and NATO, to blacken the Left, scare the People; but now we all know about it, the parliament investigated, it is common knowledge.

So lots of little “pearl harbors” are very convenient, laws can be passed to restrict the freedoms of the citizenry, and power and macro$$$ get concentrated in fewer and fewer hands. And the awful berlusconi still got to be Boss, but I reckon they’ll get rid of him.....

if you want to know more about the US context, check out www.waynemadsenreport.com and then go to john stanton’s bigboardwatch. There we see megacriminals at work, which is why the sibel edmonds case is so important, even bigger than abramoff, which is itself much bigger than is to be seen in the MainstreamMedia. (apologies if yu know all that, but other readers might learn something, )

If you are still sane , join the club ! I’m not even a “conspiricist”, one of me favourites is barbara tuchman’s “the march of folly”—fucup analysis of History.  Must now go and bottle a fewscore liters of 5% strength country cider-- its a hard life here in frogland.

Yeah, Fisk is a war correspondent. He doesn’t go too far out on a limb, but he is very knowledgeable about the mideast. I like him.

Security doesn’t really do it for me as an argument for audio instead of video and audio.  Anyone who has ever watched a movie knows that you can make a set on a budget that will not give away your location. For that matter you could make a set suggesting that you’re somewhere else.

Unless, those sneaky bastards want people to suspect or believe that the tape is a forgery. That would be evil genious-ey.

What is GM? IBM? Por favor.

Have you ever seen the movie Brazil?

Will check out sites you mentioned.

new technology from the FBI

The Bin Laden Tape is bullshit, another Neo-Con Con Job.

The dead guy, gives a really short message, about half as long as usual, never bothers with the Koran but gives a plug to a book by an Author he would be more likely to want subjected to a fatwa? 

Uh Hum.

Rabbit heard he does a commercial for Coke-cola too but they cut that bit fearing Americans mightn’t buy it..

I finally read the full text.

At first sight it is “reasonable”, recounting well documented US atrocities already in the public domain. ("Limited hangout “ is the phrase for that, I think ?)

The crucial very small item is the claim that “WE” , Al Qaeda, did 911. Which brings us back to this thread.

Thanks for the films of the “fat-nosed, right-handed” , etc, OBL, which prove more and more strongly that whether alive or dead, He is not putting out this stuff.

So , aplogies for having gone round in circles, this is just more misdirection to get the public eye OFF 911 .

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/dotmil/arkin020199.htm

On Voice-morphing.....

Isn’t that a kick in the ass, frog? Artifice and reality running neck and neck.  Is it my imagination or are humans ever involved in the wrong contests?

I see the debunked messages from bin Laden as another cog in the 9/11 cover up. Since there was no forensic investigation and trial, there is no closure. The administration is two steps from riding on a rail, and the less romantic the view of our president and his cabinet, the more likely people are going to start wondering if there is something to all those “conspiracy theories”.

More of the many coincidences and breaks with the past is that there weren’t a dozen groups claiming responsibility for 9/11.

Isn’t it the whole terrorist kit and kaboodle to wage an attack, claim responsibility for it, and then make a political demand? Why didn’t bin Laden intrude on any of the three anniversaries of 9/11? Why now?

9Garbled garbled garbled wonder WHY 989Politically convenient. The fact that there were NO

What happened to the Frog?  Are you under water Froggy?

The lack of claims for responsibility has always struck me as one of the more glaring discrepancies of attacks like the Alfred P Murrah building, 911 and the London Bombings.  Oh and Madrid.

In none of these cases have the perpetrators come forward and said “We did and this is why”

Oh, and how about the terrorist training for a bomb in the subway being run at exactly the same time as the actual bomb was in place? London leaks like a sieve too?

Should we all have “suckers” branded on our foreheads?

These terrorists are psychic! Mein Gott! These men should be oracles.

If you must drown, frog, then I hope you drow in the hard cider. It’s much better than drowning in tears or tap water.

frog is a slow learner and rather stupid.

Well, Rabbit and Wiley,and Frog, they are playing a game with the World. The Newsmedia hanging on to OLB , searching around, all very suspenseful, while other stuff more important is sidelined.

The REAL STORY , is that the US Senate, AND the House of Reps’ are either BOUGHT or BLACKMAILED. 90%.

Alors, mon cher Wiley, is that so , or should I drown myself some more in my hard cider ?

After that, mes amis, MAYBE the 7/7 job in London was set up. I don’t know. The “exercise” had no bearing on it, that"s paranoaia, and disinformation. IT COULD not change anything. (cheney’s exercise on 911 DID , of course....) (Personally, i wd never be surprised by proof of a set-Up.)

Cher Rabbit, i first noticed your Port Arthur story with Joe Vialls, a very mysterious source,( i suspect ‘him’ of being more a consortium than a HIM, probably a well-paid CIA?/MOSSAD?/ETC?  gateminder group. )

Looks like your suspicions were justified, another 911-type story. In scotland we had Dunblane,20kids massacred , files SECRET for 100years? WHY ?

The exercise underway in London may actually have had a fair bit to do with what happened.

Actually the London job is relatively tight.  Unlike 911 where it has simply been a matter of joining the dots there is far more mere speculation this time.  Rabbit is of the opinion that it was in fact an exercise at various levels.  A small number of implanted people made it go live.

Rabbit believes the “alleged” bombers were involved in an exercise, which unbeknownst to them was made to go live.  The thing which stuck in my craw from the start was the fourth guy, in the bus.  The whole description of him whether from the highly suspicious witness who got off the bus just before it blew, or from definate innocent witnesses, the picture was of a frightened man, desperately searching for something in his backpack.

Since he came later than the others and was unable to get on his train, but was instead shunted onto the bus, he had heard about the first explosions.  I believe he suddenly realised that the supposed dummy bomb he was carrying, given him by police or security people was possibly the real thing.  Hell, he would have had his doubts, he may have not been sure if the media reports and shut downs were all part of the exercise too, but he was I suspect desperately rummaging around in his pack to see if there was something wrong. The bloke, Richard someone I think, who supposedly was so annoyed that he asked the bus to stop so he could get off, (very suspicious story), was instead the Patsy’s handler.  Seeing the patsy was about to figure it out, Richard stopped the bus and pressed the destruct button for the patsy’s backpack as he walked away.

I also think the subsequent farce a few weeks later was ad-hoc and meant to fill in some gaps which were opening up early in the official story. 

Does Frog know the bomb in at least one of the trains appears to have been under the train?  Actually the one in the bus may have been under the seat too, which is why the Patsy was unable to find anything in his backpack.  There was some suspicious goings on with the bus too previous to the day.

Frog

Joe Vialls lived a few suburbs away from me, he was living in Perth until he died recently.  I cannot confirm any more than this.  I too had my doubts about Joe, some attentive people do due to some odd goings on a long time ago.  Much suspicion about exactly who or what he was, due to the apparent lines on some info particularly.

Actually if a couple of people want, Rabbit will go and check out Joe’s address and see if he can meet Mrs Vialls, possibly can bring some finish to the Joe Vialls questions which are asked in some circles.  I did e-mail a condolences to her at the time, and communicated with Jon Rappoport who is one of such a consortium if such an one exists.

Dunblane, as well as Port Arthur and another event in New Zealand all happened within a very short time frame, and all resulted in exactly the same response of each of our three govewrnments. 

We know Port Arthur was a complete frame-up and Psyop, it isn’t hard to guess something fishy about the New Zealand and Scotland ones.

You’ve commented on how poorly the coverups are done, and it is true.

Consider that this is very much the Arrogance of Illuminati ways.  This abomination of psychopathic human waste group, thinks it is the height of COOL to show their hand so clearly to those of us who are not under the spell. 

The overall message is clearly, along these lines.

“Look at us, see our power, there isn’t a thing you can do about it, suck eggs you losers”

Rabbit however has a message from the other side.

Illuminati scumbags, the show ain’t over till the fat lady sings.

Rabbit hears many things, but no fat lady singing yet.

Oh yes, Rabbit. The sociopaths love to tell you what they’re going to do to you in such a way that they can deny it and say that you were warned, as well. A conscience hardly knows what to do with that. What is most amazing is the people who will clamor to defend the sociopath and blame the victim.

What is scary to me in all this is the conclusions the authorities come up with. Did you know that the only way to stop a suicide bomber is to shoot him/her in the head? Shoot first, ask questions later. All a cop has to do is shoot someone in the head, and then say “I thought he/she was a terrorist. He was acting suspicious, and I was appropriately full of suspicion because they’re everywhere! Just think of what would have happened if he had had a bomb.” From whence blows this only way to kill a suicide bomber hooey?

Good grief, anyone with bushy eyebrows is a potential terrorist. Police in Britain have an excuse to unload their magazines at the head of an unarmed person on his back on the floor, because shooting him in the head is the only way to prevent a bomb from going off. If there is no bomb, too bad for the dead guy. The police meant well.

If there is a bomb and it set with a timer? Hmmm. What’s the only way to deal with that, then? I suppose it wouldn’t be a good idea to have four or five coppers on the scene in that case, huh?

The powers that be don’t really give a fig who dies in their little games as long as it isn’t them.

Rabbit.

For the love of God or whatever......

get help.

PS...for those of you too concrete minded to appreciate irony....

my sister is a very clever woman, intelligent and funny...just try to gang rape her, she’ll do some damage on you with that black belt in kick boxing.

She is the unfortunate source of my blitherings on this thread....you’re right Rabbit...I should just take my own life for even mentioning her name in the presence of one such as you.

Which brings me to the question of how you think I should best effect my suicide ,since you have the best interests of something (your own ego, maybe), and wish to rid this site of all views which don’t mesh with all your numerous, paranoid, and idiosyncratic posts.

I really don’t want to give you any part of myself, since you seem noxious, but I am willing to dedicate my last crap to you....

can you provide an address so my survivors will know where to send this legacy?

Dear little Minerva.

You are completely peripheral to Rabbit’s existence.  You are less than a fly to me. You are good for a giggle, looneys usually are. Rabbit is an Aries which is sort of immune to issues of Ego in the way you percieve it.  secondly he is sufficiently sure of himself not to feel threatened by an empty headed little ninny who boasts like a preteen about close family but so far leaves us to wonder if she is thus the mongrel of the family of Nobel Prize candidates.

My suggestion that you kill youself was following a relevant post which you otherwise ignore.  Have you no answer to the rest?

Well sweetie, things are getting a bit desperate, and you are actually in the way.  So if you don’t want to get that blanket off your eyes and face the horrible truth, you are faced with getting out of the road, or maybe you should justy succumb to your life’s angst, and kill yourself.

Rabbit doesn’t however wish your views to be silenced.  If somebody like you didn’t say these things would anybody else believe somebody had said these things?  I doubt it.  Thus if we are to have the opportunity of ridiculing the preposterous delusions and imaginings which such as you are prone to, then obviously wqe need a subject to utter the preposterous nonsense. 

Besides which you are a quality Moron, a real dittohead and proud of it.  We are short on such as you around ITT.  We seem to have an abundance of Trolls and often a shill or two. Yet the average but nonetheless spectacular home grown American Moron is always in short supply on ITT.

Now are you then admitting that your life’s angst is too much to live with? In which case Rabbit will gladly assist you in the enterprise.

You are in America, and certainly bearing in mind you are a rabid Conservative, Repuglican and all that, I would have thought the choice was obvious.  How could you seriously have thought Rabbit would deny you your birthright.  The only question is what sort and what calibre you used. 

Bearing in mind the thickness of your head, it might be an idea to go for something with a bit of penetrating power.

I hear Depleted Uranium is ideal for the purpose.

As for your dedication, Thanks dear, but since we’ve already enjoyed all the rest of your crap you should think of your family with this last bit.

Minerva, Minerva, Minerva, what were you thinking?  It is futile for you to fight with Rabbit. Don’t you see?

Don’t you see? You sound frazzled.  Do rest.  Dial 911 if you are feeling desperate, otherwise, I find it irresponsible for you to talk about committing suicide. This is the kind of thing you should tell your family. Suicide isn’t funny. I’ll ask Rabbit not to joke about it, but I understand that I’m taking my chances by doing so, and that Rabbit is Rabbitty.

You seem lacking in net-i-sense. You might want to dedicate yourself, your family, and your next crap to a chat board that doesn’t rub your fur the wrong way. I think you might need some merry, light weight company to refresh yourself. Gardening, pets, crochet---find a perky forum to perk yourself up---cooking, hiking, painting.

Clearly, the topic of 9/11 and questioning the official story triggers something in you that leads to masochistic poasting tendencies, and you are shooting yourself in the foot socially.  This thread is not good for your health.

No one said anything about rape, btw.

Go have some fun, and forget about us.

Was she only joking?  Silly Rabbit.

Agreed though Wiley.

Not everyone can see how soft and furry you really are, Rabbitowsky. Some people might get the impression that you’re ruthless, and forthright, and not altogether polite. It’s crazy, I know. People think I’m direct, all the time, I don’t know where they get that. Mensch. 

Gonna crawl into my nest and go to sleep now.

Thanks for reminders on 7/7. Will look again at london ‘exercises’. It was my 5%gullibility and mental sloth kicking in, so blathered.

So why did the FAA manager destroy the tape of the 6ATC’s , apparently because he promised a union organiser he’d do so ? Anyone know more ? Weird that a useful doc done shortly after was destroyed, and no action taken against that manager. I thought the Actor had done away with that Union Trash.

Rabbit will do as he chooses, but froggie is not asking him to go see mrs V around the corner. Rabbit knows why.

“ We’ll never know the whole truth” someone has said here. Well, it does have a tendency to ‘come out’. BBC radio4 ‘Document’ series had a good example on monday night, about Cyprus 1964. Similar to Northwoods and Gladio, yet another bloody reminder of the total lack of scruple of toughminded ‘strategic thinkers’, and the conclusion that so much of their activity finally turns out to have been counter-productive.

http://www.cyprus-conflict.net/packard.htm

Warmed up 6° here, only -3 outside !

It amazes me what does come out sometimes, frog, and what is missing. Considering the contents of your usual news porn, it is odd that we haven’t heard accounts of what happened on 9/11 from air traffic controllers, we haven’t seen interviews with the families of passengers on all four flights, we haven’t seen surveillance video ad nauseum, we haven’t heard from people who worked in the WTC towers but weren’t there that day, we haven’t heard from jet fighter pilots in proximity to D.C. and NYC, we haven’t heard much from our hero firefighters, we haven’t even heard much from people who were going about their business on the street below that day. We haven’t seen and heard these things over, and over, and over, 24/7. The whole thing appeared to me to be a prepackaged deal.

***** pressed “PREVIEW” and all went

So I start again but more concisely.%%%%! and BU^^er!

On file somewhere is a story of guys finding blackboxes. Told to keep quiet by FBI, ?, relpied “give me one good reason”. Sounds true.

NOW. In a normal healthy Open society, things would be as you describe.

In a very delicate police investigation, anywhere, cops may ask one to keep quiet for good reason. To be explained, even. Commonsense;

But a state where everyone is told to hush up about everything, can only be described one way. Police State.

We notice with Fitz and others, they haven’t silenced all the judges/ DA’s yet. But they are working on it. Abramoff deserves a few Lifes, wait and see !

If you can find it, a treasure is “THE WASHINGTON PAYOFF”
dell1972 by robert n Winter-Berger.
about buying judges, Presidents, reps, senators, serving Mafia contacts, all that routine stuff, wot.

Some unfunny quotes found at
http://www.spiritcaller.net/quotes/conspiracy.htm

“In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way.”
- F.D.R.

“...don’t ever, ever use the word conspiracy if you expect applause, for that is when the wrath of Liberaldom will be unleashed against you. We are not disallowed from believing in all types of conspiracy, just modern political conspiracy.... Conspiracy to seize the power of government is as old as government itself. We can study the conspiracies surrounding Alcibiades in Greece or Julius Caesar in ancient Rome, but we are not supposed to think that men today scheme to achieve political power.”

- Gary Allen, None Dare Call It Conspiracy, 1971

“The Congressional Committee investigating un-American activities has reported that the Fascist plot to seize the government...was proved; yet not a single participant will be prosecuted under the perfectly plain language of the federal conspiracy act making this a high crime. Imagine the action if such a plot were discovered among Communists!”

- Roger Baldwin, director of the American Civil Liberties Union (1935)

This was the “Nazi” plot exposed by USMC gen smedley butler.

Nuff said, nothing new under the sun?

zonktime

Does this good cop/bad cop routine ever work for you two?
Seriously.

Stop me if you’ve heard this one....

1. Two antennas met on a roof, fell in love and got married. The ceremony wasn’t much, but the reception was excellent.

2. A jumper cable walks into a bar. The bartender says, “I’ll serve you, but don’t start anything.”

3. Two peanuts walk into a bar, and one was a salted.

4. A dyslexic man walks into a bra.

5. A man walks into a bar with a slab of asphalt under his arm and says: “A beer please, and one for the road.”

6. Two cannibals are eating a clown. One says to the other: “Does this taste funny to you?”

7. “Doc, I can’t stop singing ‘The Green, Green Grass of Home.’” “That sounds like Tom Jones Syndrome.” “Is it common?” Well, “It’s Not Unusual.”

8. Two cows are standing next to each other in a field.. Daisy says to Dolly, “I was artificially inseminated this morning.” “I don’t believe you,” says Dolly. “It’s true, no bull!” exclaims Daisy.

9. An invisible man marries an invisible woman. The kids were nothing to look at either.

10. Deja Moo: The feeling that you’ve heard this bull before.

11. I went to buy some camouflage trousers the other day but I couldn’t find any.

12. A man woke up in a hospital after a serious accident. He shouted, “Doctor, doctor, I can’t feel my legs!” The doctor replied, “I know you can’t - I’ve cut off your arms!”

13. I went to a seafood disco last week...and pulled a mussel.

14. What do you call a fish with no eyes? A fsh.

15. Two fish swim into a concrete wall. The one turns to the other and says “Dam!”

16. Two Eskimos sitting in a kayak were chilly, so they lit a fire in the craft. Unsurprisingly it sank, proving once again that you can’t have your kayak and heat it too.

17. A gr