What’s the 411 on 9/11?

Oops, the above post begins to Frog, but then metamorphoses into being directed at Natalie.

Posted by Rabbit on Feb 7, 2006 at 7:17 PM

“As it happens the Rabbit deliberately salted his post with the claim of half the returning vet

Posted by Natalie on Feb 7, 2006 at 8:24 PM

No, I think you may need a class, luminous.  I’m not sure exactly what kind, maybe start with Journalism 101.  I see your point though, you are correct to say that Jones doesn’t technically imply that Loizveaux believes in bombs in buildings.  I’m quite confident, however, that what an average reader takes away from Jones’ quote of Loizeaux is very different from what Loizeaux would express if he were to comment on this whole sordid affair.  As evidence for this, I offer the relatively recent actual interview that I quoted from and linked to.

If I were a scientist trying to sincerely get to the bottom of this “controversy”, I would hope that I would think to contact both Loizeaux and Manning and get their current insight on the whole event, with the hope that I might even receive some support for my hypothesis.  After all, I’m quoting them in my scientific scholarly paper.  It’s not like they’re dead.  Obviously, Jones didn’t attempt to do this, or if he did, he didn’t like what he heard.  I would think someone of his credentials would be able to get a few minutes on the phone with these men.

Loizeaux’s quote appears to be hearsay, someone said that someone said, according to the article by Bollyn, who has zero credibility in my book.  I know he manufactured facts in the past and I wouldn’t put it past him in this case.  David Griffin, our other eminent scholar, also sources the quote back to Bollyn, so it’s just one big happy paranoid family.  (actually, this is what’s looking like the real conspiracy)

I think Bollyn’s whole article talking about bombs in the basement is about as truthful and reliable as his one about the Windsor Tower fire.  Even folks that cling to the belief that those buildings just had to have been imploded think Bollyn’s all wet.  It would seem that even Loiveaux’s questionable quote is insufficient to buoy the theory:

Error:

I see a distinct pattern by Jones, (which he appears to have picked up from the Internet alternative reality crowd) that is, taking bits and pieces of other peoples comments and knitting them together to try to make a case for himself.  This approach would not make it past any reasonably competent newspaper editor, much less the peer review board of a legitimate sci/eng journal.

We all remember how Bush tricked the population into believing that Saddam was behind the 9/11 attacks, without actually saying as much.  I seem to remember quite a few complaints about how, well, he might not have actually said it explicitely, but he clearly wanted to leave that impression.  Jones does the same thing in his paper using Loizveau, but the infraction is most blantant in the case of Manning.  However, Bush is a politician.  Jones is a scientist.  Bush has a certain license to persuade by innuendo…...Jones does not.

When I first commented on the other thread on the selective opportunistic reproduction of Manning’s words, I had not yet encountered 9/11myths, which does a lot better job of illustrating the point than I have.  I was heartened to find that my thoughts about the misuse of Manning’s words weren’t completely unique.

brain twins

More evidence of the utter unreliability of Bollyn, and by association,  Serendipity.com.  What is the explanation for the distortion of these charts? 

Seismic nonsense

Posted by Natalie on Feb 7, 2006 at 8:32 PM

Prof. Jones recently conducted another seminar about his controversial theory.  It was already clear to me that the root of his discontent was political, but now it’s crystal clear to everyone.

I hope this practice of mixing political ideology with science is not as prevalent in the college classroom as I fear it is.

slide show & mp3

Posted by Natalie on Feb 7, 2006 at 9:00 PM

Ah ha the Bat Shrieks, I have the rabbit.

WRONG silly bat.

You got a full contextual answer, an honest one, and it was given immediately without dissembly and prevarication.  You are a fine little scummy soul to start suggesting anything more than you were hooked.

The final lesson in the Natty game is to see how she goes berserk posting lots and lots if she ever thinks she actually has any sort of an admission of an innacuracy or something.  Thinking this somehow salvages her reputation by reflection or something she then proceeds to get a whole lot under the radar at once.

In its twisted logic the simple honesty of admitting an innacuracy,  instead of pointing as we know it does to the honesty and forthrightfullness of the party doing the admission. Instead the slimy eel, the Flappy Bat the tricky toad, chooses the low road and claims it as some sort of victory.

Since it is a shill, and we have it’s attention, Rabbit shall be back shortly.

No point showing the truth it hates if the shill is under it’s rock again.

Posted by Rabbit on Feb 7, 2006 at 9:37 PM

Writing in Preventive Psychiatry E-Newsletter No. 169, Arthur N. Bernklau, executive director of Veterans for Constitutional Law in New York,

<i>

Posted by Rabbit on Feb 7, 2006 at 9:56 PM

Now whilst this may seem to be off topic, Rabbit would defend this as being relevant especially since we are dealing once again with a Shill which cannot ever deviate from official policy.  The important thing here is to note that having provided individually and collectively a huge body of evidence and collection of professional opinions most of which is completely unanimous in it’s condemnation of the US government and clearly holds it to blame, the shill has never accepted even the tiniest fact or detail which has been presented, often the only way being to ignore it completely.

The important thing now is to show how the SAME SCUMBAGS who are determined to bring the Abomination of Depleted Uranium down upon your heads, and your troops not to mention millions of innocent foreigners, are the same people who bring you the utterly absurb totally debunked conspiracy theory of nineteen arabs with boxcutters and a miraculous intervention of Allah to suspend the laws of physics and probability for a few hours.

Now you know why we call it the Bat.

Bats in the Belfry.  Vampire bringer of death, due to it’s cognizance of the truth yet stubborn refusal to accept it.

Since it cannot be converted it must be killed.  Kill it’s ugly lies by tying them around it’s neck and dumping the loathsome thing in the deepest part of electronic nothingness.  The elctrons themselves reacted to it’s grossness at one point and they may yet strike again.  The age of miracles is upon us which is why it’s a miracle this hag, this harpie hasn’t been struck with lightning along with the co-horts of the Junta behind it.  Such evil could not have walked the land without being seen and slain as a Dragon before.  Today now that Satan has been released for a short time, to tarry among men, today you see these putrid sores in human form. 

A reminder you are all criminals, slaves to karma on the prison planet.  These are but the worst among you. They are no less a part of humanity.

Thank god I’m only a rabbit.  We’re just the gardeners.  Looking after the place while the elves are on holiday.

Posted by Rabbit on Feb 7, 2006 at 10:11 PM

Now the rabbit did admit he plucked that figure of 50% from memory and was unsure of it’s accuracy, and chose to be imprecise for arts sake.  This is true.

However it was not as the nitty natty says, that Rabbit pulled it from his backside but just from his distant recall.

Now here is the lines which prompted it and Nitty Natty is once again served up a meal of her own caste ups.

The number of disabled vets reported up to 2000 has been increasing by 43,000 every year. Brad Flohr of the Department of Veterans Affairs told American Free Press that he believes there are more disabled vets now than even after World War II.
 
They brought it home
 
Not only were soldiers exposed to DU on and off the battlefields, but they brought it home. DU in the semen of soldiers internally contaminated their wives, partners and girlfriends. Tragically, some women in their 20s and 30s who were sexual partners of exposed soldiers developed endometriosis and were forced to have hysterectomies because of health problems.
 
In a group of 251 soldiers from a study group in Mississippi who had all had normal babies before the Gulf War, 67 percent of their post-war babies were born with severe birth defects. They were born with missing legs, arms, organs or eyes or had immune system and blood diseases. In some veterans’ families now, the only normal or healthy members of the family are the children born before the war.

Now this is not statistics of all veterans, for such statistics are not available, the Pentagon resists all investigation and and testing of course.  It is however a perfectly reasonable sampling and the results can quite comfortably be extrapolated to the remainder of the returnees with a comfortable degree of error.  Say five or ten percent.  Thus rabbit was somewhat conservative in his “estimate” when the real figure may be as high as 67% or more.

The difference between talking out ones arse as you do most of the time, and being loose with precise numbers, sourced, for the sake of brevity or continuity, is the difference here, you second rate shill.

Posted by Rabbit on Feb 7, 2006 at 10:26 PM

Here is the link.

Posted by Rabbit on Feb 7, 2006 at 10:28 PM

Oh, I lied. I’m going to take a bath. Keep Nat warm for me, will you Rabbit?

Natalie! You’re doing it again! And you were doing so well. Tsk. Tsk.  Do TRY to limit your posts to three hundred words, please. You’re style drones on and on. It’s just not worth the bother to slog through your long, monotonous posts. If you can’t keep it neat, I’ll have to resort to ignoring you completely and making a lot of very short posts with links and excerpts that are interesting to read and I’ll do my best to get all the html code right so that they are visually pleasing bites for the American reader.

I will, however, be happy to answer andy unanswered questions you have—-when I feel like it. Fair is fair.

Posted by wileywitch on Feb 7, 2006 at 10:40 PM

Too bad you are all down there.  Somebody Rabbit knows who lives near an Estuary here, just dropped in a huge bucket of crabs.  Already steamed and backs removed.

Yumly gumly Crabs…...^^........

Posted by Rabbit on Feb 7, 2006 at 11:28 PM

Wiley:

Thanks for thinking about me, but conspiracies are not my cup of tea.

Let’s say EVERYTHING you and Rabbit think is the absolute irrefutable truth.

You know what that means?

Given the ACTUAL, REALWORLD outcome you, I, Rabbit and Natalies are absolutely and utterly helpless to change or stop anything such “powers that be” do now or in the future.

The problem with conspiracies is the enemy is always 5 steps ahead and layered under 5 disguises. Those that seek to oppose the “conspiracists” are always way behind the curve and thus utterly inneffective in stopping anything.

OF course IF IT WERE TRUE that there was a grand conspiracy about Kennedy, the 2004 election, 911 Etc. the SMART people would stop investigating and wondering as soon as they were certain and focus on the likely FUTURE actions of those diabolical “conspiracists.”

One thing is clear, these “conspiracists” are always well organized, always maintain 100% absolute security-secrecy and always unidentifyable other than by the bits and pieces of evidence “discovered” long after they did their dirty deed. When they are far from the scene and once again and free from any possibility of being blamed.

Personally, while a little bit of “conspiracy” can be entertaining, and most likely exists, spending too much time on siphons off energies and focus needed to thwart the real, concrete, NOW happenings that will affect us dramatically and personally.

If there is any conspiracy it is one that consists of finding ways to take the focus of the opposition off the target and placing it on far away, impossible to affect ones, like 9/11 conspiracies. ;)

Have fun indulging, but remember every moment you spend wondering about the 9/11 conspiracy (real or false) is time not spent on the world you can affect. I’m not lecturing or patronizing - that’s my view of this kind of stuff.

If you think it’s silly and stupid that’s fine. :)

Posted by johnnyincentx on Feb 8, 2006 at 7:14 AM

Johnny you are obviously just in denial.

There is actually not that much secrecy, we have gotten sufficiently “used” to there modus operandi that it is becoming increasingly clear that some have “cracked the code” sufficiently at least to be able to predict with accuracy.  many of us can and do witness the clear cut relations and patterns of what is happening which is why we have such a vastly different outlook to people like you.

Firstly, you live in fear.  Terror in fact, it is your own label.

recently Rabbit has chosen to refer to thosae who react to all the bullshit and smoke and mirros of the War on Terror as Cringers.  This is to distinguish them from their more or less imaginary Terrorists.  Of course there are now many “terrorists and there are increasingly more all the time thanks to actions taken in the name of the WOT. 

You plainly express your inner workings in the first few sentences Johhny.  You and all other Cringers say pretty much the same thing.  We’ve heard it from WTH who to his credit once followed enough of the 911 facts and reasoning to realise to his horror that it was true, and he then stated quite honestly that since there was nothing he could do aboput it, it was all way beyond him, he had no choice but to withdraw into ignorance and that he has remained ever since.  He at least had the honesty to say he was so scvared that he could not face the obvious conclusions, and Jonnhy laddy, they are SOO obvious that people who deny them are recognised as suffering from a form of Psychosis by enough qualified psychologists in and outside the USA.

The simple fact is you are so afraid of the consequences of facing the truth, and you are living in such a state of denial that you cannot recognise friend from foe.  You call anyone who questions the unprovoked attack on a sovereign nation or even who merely questions the historical barbarity of the wepons and means employed, a traitor.  Can you get your head around the extreme nature of nthat reaction?

Anyone who questions the officially sanctioned policy of torture is a called a traitor.  Anyone who now calls for caution and points out that IRAN has done NOTHING to deserve any sort of attack, you call a traitor and terrorist sympathiser. You are about to attack more sovereign nations using Nuclear weapons, not just Depleted Uranium.  The chances are that you may trigger a global Nuclear war, the certainty is that you will have forever irradicated all world security from Nuclear weapons and there will be an unbridled scramble to acquire them thereafter, and you call anyone who says that mad, you dare question our sanity you stupid turkey.

Oh and by the way, if you had ever read some of the sources given here regarding witnesses, expert testimony, and simply analysing what happened using science no more complex and observable than you would learn in high school, then you could not do anything except slink away from the subject like WTH did.  The fact that you try however feebly to deny in the face of the evidence presented, just shows you to be teetering on revelation and acceptance or soon to be shut down willfull ignorance.  The choice is up to you.

.............................^^...............

Posted by Rabbit on Feb 8, 2006 at 6:56 PM

Rabbit nor anyone is trying to tell you what to think.  We are merely pointing out what about the known facts tends to debunk the official theory to a historically unheard of degree.  Remeber some very powerful and influential and knowledgeable people have stated the same things and also that NOBODY can prove the official story, it is technically impossible, historically unique and virtually ALL the most telling evidence has either been hidden or withheld.

Johhny my bonny boy, if you have only two brain cells, see if you can rub them together around this statement, the friction may warm your frozen mind a bit. See if you can spot a clue.  There are several in there.  If after a few seconds soul searching, (historical amount for a cringer) you recognise your inherant inability to face up to the consequences of knowing the truth as we say it is, then you would be advised to put your tail between your legs and cringe back into the corner.  The only person who has argued anything with any of us on 911 for more than a couple of posts has been a shill, no doubt paid for by your taxes.

Ever heard of the Rendon group Johhny?

Your right to your opinion does not mean that your opinion has value. If you want to believe that the earth is flat, believe it! If you want to believe that the light getting brighter is the end of the tunnel go ahead, Rabbit and others have considered the shaking ground, the noise of thunder and the speed with which the thing is getting closer as meaning it is a bloody big train.

Unlike the cringers we feel it better to face this truth instead of say I might as well pretend because there is nowhere to run anyway.

You are the reason the place is in such a damned mess.  You and people like you have been the most ouspoken for the longest.  Buying the bullshit and gobbling it up valiantly, never question the mainline story, never look to the side, just swallow and cheer in between mouthfulls…........  and wave your little plastic flags made in China.

We may not be able to stop the oncoming leviathon, here and now, and if this is so, it will be thanks to scummy cringers who got in the way, and gave too much legitimacy to the monsters for too long.  You have brought us this far, and when you finally are forced to face up to the truth of what has become you must remember this, it has not been done to you, you allowed it to be done to you.

We are afraid too, we who now recognise the truth, recognise the true nature of the people who govern our world, we are very afraid.  Mostly you give form to our fears though for you are the obstacle to removing the monsters from power.  You who defend them, against all logic or reason, zombies you may be but awkward zombies for you are of us and as said give apparent legitimacy to acts which in your own rhetoric are evil and devoid of honour, yet for your own nations doing these things you invent new words and call it democracy and freedom.  These words meant much more at one time, and it was not any Arabs or Muslims who took these things and made a mockery of them.  It is not what was once meant by democracy and freedom, that which you are bringing and have always brought to the middle east.  But for your meddling the Middle east would long since have settled into a natural cycle of technological advancement and would form a continental bloc of no greater threat than India or China, but an important trading partner for all and another facet to the potential gem of civilization the human race could have become.

Instead you are a mud thinker.  A cringer.  You should have remained in the trees, Johhny for all the good you and your sort are to yourselves and the race, down here.

Posted by Rabbit on Feb 8, 2006 at 7:07 PM

Get a backbone and face the truth.  Don’t just sit on your thumb and call it true love.  Get a reason for your opinions about 911, than just “The government told me so and they said anybody who questions it is crazy”.

Your government gives all impressions it is completely crazy, in its every action inside and outside America.  If you can’t see that, you are completely, completely off your rocker.

Posted by Rabbit on Feb 8, 2006 at 7:07 PM

Rabbit:

Interesting response. It speaks for itself and clearly indicates who is truly “in denial” and “cringing.” LOL

OF course as is typical, rather than addressing anything I said, you stoop to ad hominim attacks. Well, so what. What you think isn’t that important as evidenced by your post. .

Oh yeah I’m afraid of facing the truth - exactly what truth is that - the one that goes something like “Rabbit knows all, even the unknowable. What Rabbit suspects “is” - If Rabbit “suspects” then “it is real.” Rabbit is a “truthteller” Rabbit right because you have “prescient” and “pre and post cognative” abilities that others too busy cringing and denying don’t use otherwise they’d see how right you are. hmmm.

You really outdid yourself in providing solid evidence of your motivations “an all-encompassing, irrational ever-present high level of paranoia.”

Your paranoia is so extreme any discussion of it is in and of it self PROOF that the ENEMY is close and that YOU ARE RIGHT as to who THEY are.

You conveniently leave everything open enough for you to re-interpret everything and anything you say as PROOF you are right and PROOF that anyone who questions anything you say is wrong, mislead, afraid or the ENEMY. LOL

Your thinking is exactly the same kind of thinking that makes creationists believe so fervently that “intelligent design” is a science and you use the same kind of illogical logic to support everything you BELIEVE.

Believe what you want, hey it’s the way you have fun and cope with the world. 

Your struggle isn’t with conspirisists it’s with reality. You refuse to let reality define you, because reality is a deception. Instead you will force reality to conform to you by redefining anything and everything that contradicts you to fit and support your truth. :)

Posted by johnnyincentx on Feb 8, 2006 at 7:15 PM

Now you are just hysterical Johhny boy.

Projecting like a champion and in complete panic it would seem.

Go and read something, get some clues you ninny and then come and tell us exactly why you are convinced the official story has any credibility.  Not because you want it to be true, or because you have intrinsic faith in the government, but actually how it overcomes the rather straightforard analysis of so many, and increasingly many very qualified people.

If you have nothing specific to answer but choose instead to indulge in ad-hominem and emotional ranting, and in silly insult slinging which you can only lose.  Glass houses applies to your world like no other.

The real crazies are people like you who can actually convince themselves that so many people like us and professors, engineers and world leaders could possibly be cohorts in some sort of conspiracy to demean the US government and help these so called terrorists.

You talk about conspiracy theorists?  You are a nut job laddy.

Reality is what sees tomorrow coming, in your case you just live from shock to shock and denial heaped upon denial.  You are such a turd brain, that you nor any Natty’s or Minny Minds have comprehended most of us to not confess to be absolutely sure of what happened, but we look at all the facts and try to fit it to the theories available.  That has esulted in a universal reaction, the official story is false, it is impossible and not supported by any of the evidence available.  It is furthermore statistically impossible for such an unheard of event, technically impossible, to happen not twice but THREE times in a space of a few hours in the same place.

If you possessed even a miniscule amount of reasoning anymore then you would at least be forced to question such a statistical impossibility, forced to admit that there are serious questions, even if the answers are not yet known exactly.  BUT no, you who claim to have sanity on your side, you claim that you know exactly what happened, because the government told it so, even though the commission omitted HUGE amounts of evidence and testimony, even though it pretended WTC never existed, let alone fell down in an identical fashion on the same day under admitted controlled conditions.  YET you the paragon of reason and Ruler of Reality, accept that story as if you had witnessed every last detail of it unfold on a movie screen which you did too.  You accept that story and do not question for a moment the fact that ALL the most important evidence has either been witheld, including thousands of hours of Video or it has been destroyed, contrary to accepted and legal practices.  Despite being ordered by courts on occassion the government has refused to release many things.  The bulk of the firemens recordings when released, despite much censoring show that explosions were going on all ovber those buildings too.

despite all this you cling to a story for which you have noi reasonable reason to believe, none at all.

If that doesn’t constitue denial, then what does?  We only ask questions, even if we are forced to dump the official explanation, doesn’t mean we are so deluded or desperate to have something to cling to, that we’ll just jump on any bandwagon.  We have questions, your story can’t answer them.

Go with the facts, stick with the crucial things and don’t get lost in the details, the truth doesn’t take a degree in anything, just an open mind.

If the building fell at free fall speed into it’s own footprint, and if no building has ever done such a thing before without demolition charges, then that is the end of that.  It is pointless trying to look at a few seconds here or there, or trying to compare every little structural detail, inventing answers to things which have perfectly valid if unpalatable answers.

.................................

Posted by Rabbit on Feb 8, 2006 at 9:05 PM

Prove you have anything but a gut fear reaction to facing up to the fact that your real enemies are within the borders, they are in the white house.  Inventing enemies and creating them overseas in faraway places is not going to change that one bit.

If you wish to indulge in a slinging match Johhnyeccentrix, then you will lose, as you alwasy doi when faced with a sane and reasoned person with a comprehension of your puny world of terror, while you can only imagine and project to grasp mine.  Yet others with more oversight would have no problem.  You are living in an egocentric little universe and in your heart at least you believe that the sun revolves around America and you are the center of America.

Facts or get thrashed for the fun of it.

Johhny boy.

Posted by Rabbit on Feb 8, 2006 at 9:06 PM

Believing some muslims are out to get you when no muslims have ever made any particularly great dent on the USA compared to the millions of Muslims who have been killed and injured and poisoned and dispossessed by you and your dirty terrorist ally Israel.  The father of all terrorism.  History.  That is PARANOIA, Johnnyselfcentrix.  That and giving up all manner of freedom and democracy cause it might make you a bit safer, that is Paranoia.  Surrendering all rights to the government and agreeing when it decides to detain people without charge, indefinately, and authorises torture and bombing with Nuclear weapons, in an aggressive mode, because of fear of what might happen otherwise, is PARANOIA. ,,

You are so god-damned terrified you can’t sleep at night and you wet yourself with fear everytime someone with a beard and a turban shows his face, or a chicken even.  Unless your Navy and Airforce is bombing the shit out of some poorer weaker country.

The hundreds of thousands you have killed and will yet kill directly with bombs and bullets still make you feel like the victim.  I’d say that is Psychotic Paranoia.

Now just you dare to tell us that even if they were responsible or partly responsible for 911, for 3000 deaths almost, as if that is justification for all that. 

Do make sure you read what you are blindly blathering back to in reply Johhny you don’t want to start humiliating your dopey self too early by being ignorant when you can help it.

There was no suggestion of delusion or false reasoning in Rabbit’s or anyone’s postings you have yet attempted to refute, so to launch into words hwich smack of a victory dance at this stage is too be pure and simple, a fuckwit..

And Johhnyselfcentered, Rabbit has all the time in the world to sit and burst your bubble in between cooking small boats. 

Read and get some clues, you too could become an thinking rational being again.  Or don’t.  In which case don’t gulp your codial laddy, it will give you hiccups.  There is pleanty of special cordial to go around, and it makes you feel goood….sleeeeeepy…....don’t worry be happy…...Bush is a great POTUS, the USA is in great hands…...my future and that of my kids is looking great….........more cordial…..

Posted by Rabbit on Feb 8, 2006 at 9:25 PM

Rabbit:

Yeah right, where r u’r facts. Conspiracy theories are NOT facts, they are circumstancial and assumptive.

The fact that you have decided to declare them “facts” does not make it so.

You know our society is forever indebted to the young girl (most like a young girl) who coined the ultimate, all-purpose answer when confronted with total bullshit trying “bully” its way past the bullshit detectors.

Confronted by such a sichiashun, she was neither intimidated nor swayed.

With one simple word she dismissed the attempts to get her to believe or care about what was clearly nonsense and unrelated to reality. it as irrelevent, pointless and an incredibly stupid waste of energy and time.

A generation has come and gone since she used that one-word spell that shattered that particular pervayor of nonsense and paranoia. Since that time it has been employed countless times just as effectively as she did.

I use that mighty, and most powerful one-word spell LOL to shatter any illusion that you have that what you say matters to me.

Rabbit - WHATEVER LOL

Posted by johnnyincentx on Feb 8, 2006 at 9:27 PM

Rabbit:

Yeah right, where r u

Posted by johnnyincentx on Feb 8, 2006 at 9:35 PM

Reading back over your excited little rant, it is obvious you have trouble dividing even humour from seriousnous, so let us get one thing clear.

If Rabbit says some thing which you think is finally the proof that you have been dreaming of, that he is mad, then assume you are being made a fool of…again.

Rabbit says he knows everything., to complete morons, who know nothing, and who need special images and words to get their attention, often by that time, only to properly wack them from a better angle.  By discussing and raising the issues of prescience and various other unseen but increasingly scientifically valid dimensions, it does not necessarliy colour anything more than what it refers to.  To raise such things now, is disengenuous and displays a desperation to have a shot at the rabbit which is rare indeed.  Due to it’s complete lack of context in this scenario, where science, and reasoned observations, are the order, raising such things gives you egg on your face from the start, especially since Rabbit will not even bother to qualify the complete arseabout understanding you’ve garnered, pointing out merely that no such terminology has been invoked by any rabbits around here.

Since it is the most easily proven lie how about you try and find something which refutes our claims that the buildings were demolished.  Go and read and stop standing in one place while the rabbit pounds you wih a cricket bat.  It is boring, frankly it is unlikely Rabbit will be able to raise the benchmark in insultery today, he is busy making lots of boats fast.  So best if we try some sort of reasoned approach or we’ll just buy time till some other players turn up and we can all have a wack at you.

Posted by Rabbit on Feb 8, 2006 at 9:36 PM

You are being disengenuous again, you are on a thread which lists all the facts and in some places quite simply formatted.  A generic argument based on nothing but rhetoric anyway doesn’;t refute anything, so you claims of conspiracy are fraudulent. 

Nevertheless the facts claim must first be applied to the official story because in the absence of proof, it is but a Conspitracy theory and a weird one at that. 

Where are the FACTS which support the claims that the Planes and fires brought doiwn those buildings?  NO Physicist in the world is prepared to sign his name to that theory.  Wher are the facts which support this theory??

As for the facts which support the theory explaosives brought down the buildings, where do we start?  We have already established hundreds of FACTS, all of which support the thoery that explosives were used.

In case you are coming in late, Rabbit is a demolitions expert by the way.  Pyrotechnician and Fireworks mostly but a competant Pyro chemist too.  The FACTS are the very thing which are being ignored in order to advance your debunked theory.

On another note:

Would you care to explain why the Government should have disposed of and witheld all the important evidence which would prove it’s claims if trhey were true?  The FACT that they have witheld and destroyed it is history, what is your conclusion about it?  Happy about it are we?

Posted by Rabbit on Feb 8, 2006 at 9:45 PM

FACTS are established quite clearly dickhead, so if you care to mention any FACT which is relied upon to come to the conclusion that Bombs were used on the WTC’s, then name them, they are laid out for you.  Otherwise what are you on this thread for?  Are you such a Cringing little CUR that you thought you could come into a thread which has debated the 911 issue for hundreds of posts and just chuck your mindless little prayer of faith into the mix and expect it woulf make you feel good? 

You are a gutless Cringer, you yourself claim that you do all the above and agree with it in the name of your TERROR of .....whatever you are told to be afraid of.  You are a CRINGER and thankyou for helping Rabbit to find the right word for the opposite to Terrorists.

Posted by Rabbit on Feb 8, 2006 at 9:50 PM

LOL sounds increasingly like whistling in the dark to me.

When asked to face FACTs, despite using the word loosely itself, the Moron answered LOL.

Good onya JohhnySelfCentered, you go LOL, LOL like a good looney would and hopefully you’ll die before your illusions are shattered.  So sad to think of the LOLs coming to an ignominious end.

Posted by Rabbit on Feb 8, 2006 at 9:54 PM

This has got to hurt.    Bad Bat, Bad Bat what you gonna do, what you gonna do when they come for you, Bad Bat.

Natty and the new baton holder (sshh! he think’s it’s a baton) take note that the truth is spreading.  The natural progression of a coverup is it’s unravelling.  How basic is that?

Posted by Rabbit on Feb 8, 2006 at 10:52 PM

Considering the fact that I posted a link to Jones’ entire presentation above, I’m apparently not too hurt by it.  But this would hardly be the first time you were wrong about what I think or feel.

<i>“Natty and the new baton holder (sshh! he think

Posted by Natalie on Feb 9, 2006 at 2:18 AM

What you just got by the way idiot shill was JOnes breaking “further” into the public spotlight.  What did you thi9nk thje rabbit was so dishonest as you as to pretend that Jones had just hatched out of an egg yesterday?  The point being made was that he gave a presentation, and you scumbags thought you’d scared him away.  Someone from the BUSH heart land has not only questioned the official lies he has publically done so and backed it up with excellent credentials.

Since he is about the tenth Physicist at least who we have presented to you to support the demolition theory, I think it is high time Natty the Nitty Batty produced at least one or maybe two, let;s really make it hard, PHYSICISTS who support the official incredible and unlikely LIE.

Two Phusicists please Bat, you have had more than you deserve from patient people with better things to do than argue the existence or not of Gravity with a Moonbat shill.

Lies die an ignominious death.  Truth rises like a tree shoot through Asphalt.  Apparently miraculous in it’s power to assert itself, it blossoms until the asphalt which once dwarfed it, becomes a false imposter where the tree of truth was always destined to blossom.

Yucky Bat…....................

Posted by Rabbit on Feb 9, 2006 at 5:42 AM

Natty, anyone who believes anything at all hit the Pentagon has only got circumstantial evidence and witness reports to go on.  The actual film footage which showed what hit the Pentagon has never been released, read witheld.  So far we are lacking a response from you about that remarkable fact alone, care to try and spin it this time?.... (#11)

As many witnesses described a missile hitting the Pentagon as who said a plane, and the photographic evidence of the Pentagon site after the hit was not consistent with a plane of the type supposed, but was consistent with a missile and or a small Jet.  Those words are supported by the Facts.  How you interpret them is the theory. 

You begin with the actual facts, Shill cow, then you compare them to known data, and Shill cow thus arrive we at a conclusion which is worth something instead of a faith based argument which says the government said it is, and they would never lie.  Do you have any idea how daft that sounds even to a child? I guess not.

It is as said telling that the Pentagon crash is so important to you Shills.  Obviously there is somethingbthere if the scum are working so hard to cover it up.  Do you think Rabbit is a dumb Dittohead who has strayed from the program monentarily, and that enough hysterical ridicule and false bragging by you would make him step back in line SHILL? 

KNOWING as the rabbit does that Natty the nasty nitty batty, is a government employed (directly or indirectly), SHILL or disinformation agent, makes her movements of interest to an observant hopper.

What is she hiding thinks the rabbit who was formally uncomitted on the Pentagon Hit, but has since learned much about that which he has only the Bat to thank.  You are worth your weight in Gold to those who seek the truth Bat.

Thanks for that.  No need to labour the point now mad cow.  We have gotten th picture, you really, really don’t want us to think a missile hit the Pentagon.  Rabbit will try not to believe that a missile hit the pentagon, he promises Natty.

What else don’t you think we should believe, Nitty Natty?

Please let us know what else we are most mad for suspecting.

Posted by Rabbit on Feb 9, 2006 at 5:59 AM

Only for curious and open minded and informed people. Missing links in timeline for 911.

Igonorant Shills and dittoheads need not apply, it is light-years beyond the level of debate you are caught up in.  We indulge you but sometimes like adults ignore boisterous children we must direct some commenbts above your tiny heads.

Posted by Rabbit on Feb 9, 2006 at 6:10 AM

III. Conclusion

Despite the destructive fire that raged inside the impact area on 9/11, pieces of debris were visible on 9/13 and 9/14, and were photographed by recovery workers. These photos clearly show pieces of landing gears, a large turbofan engine, and fuselage. The evidence inside the building is consistent with the evidence of plane wreckage outside—indicating that a commercial airliner flew into the Pentagon on September 11th.

fair and balanced?

You know what they say about broken clocks.

Posted by Natalie on Feb 9, 2006 at 9:01 PM

Yes Natalie the Turbofan engine was not the right model for the plane which was supposed to have hit the WTC either, one of the main pieces of evidence of something wrong which caught peoples eye was the fact that the engine is completely the wrong type, wrong size and so too was the landing gear.  Rabbit shall find the links and post it again.

Personally Rabbit believes a plane hit the Pentagon, preceded by a missile maybe, but it was not the plane that was claimed, that much is a certainty.  The pictures of those parts you mentioned are proof among others.

It’s what you don’t say that means so much more as always.

Posted by Rabbit on Feb 10, 2006 at 2:32 AM

Rabbit certainly reccommends the link Natty just posted, and points out we have posted it before anyway.  It is linking to lots more about the demolition of the WTC’s with Explosives and the various evidenmce that the planes hitting the WTCs were switched.  Good one Nat.  Yes it’s fair and balanced, and definately helps the case that a plane hit the Pentagon, but still Rabbit never doubted that much, you have built a strawman again.

Nitty Natty do you understand that a missile does not eliminate a plane as well? 

.  The main reason the rabbit is willing to entertain the idea of a missile as well maybe, is because YOU are so determined it didn’t, it seemed to be the most important issue about the whole 911 scene to YOUm which makes it interesting. Now having looked at things it seems not unlikely, and as always the evidence to prove or disprove is being hidden by the government.  What can we say about that?

As said the rabbit has never doubted a plane hit the Pentagon, but he doubts it was flight 77, a boing 757 is all.  It doesn’t change the government culpability at all, but is nonetheless interesting.  Now if the government would release the videos which they conficatsed from private businesses, which would have shown the koment of impact, then we could know the truth.  How cool would that be?  Why do they hide the truth Natty?  If they are hiding the videos, which show the truth, then they are hiding the truth are they not?

What sort of plane exactly?

Posted by Rabbit on Feb 10, 2006 at 3:06 AM

Oops Rabbit said WTC when he meant Pentagon, in second last post.

Posted by Rabbit on Feb 10, 2006 at 3:08 AM

What do they say about broken clocks Natty?

Rabbit mostly fixes things and clocks was something he fixed long ago.  Hopefully whoever said whatever you have heard about clocks, knew what they were talking about.

Oh tyes now the rabbit can think of it.

“Even a broken clock is right twice a day”  How true Natty and there you have it.  You may actually have posted the best evidence seen yet to suggest a 757 actually did hit the pentagon, which doesn’t rule out a missile or government involvement still dear, but it is progress for the truth all the same.  Indeed you may finally have managed to be right about something.  Isn’t it delightful that you may have managed to do this using Rense, that eminent Net resource.

Well done Natalie.  Well done indeed.

Posted by Rabbit on Feb 10, 2006 at 3:17 AM

Natty and Rabbit

Thankyou both for your links. i enjoyed Nat’s one to 911myths 911MYTHS

““Next, look at an opposing site to see if I’ve covered the key points being made. You might read a page here saying there’s no proof a particular hijacker is alive, for instance, and it may look convincing, but am I missing some key piece of evidence you’ll find elsewhere?  Do a quick Google to see exactly what the conspiracy sites are saying, and make sure I’m addressing whatever points they present.”“

I share this approach. The occasional mild insult to liven things up, but no more ?

johnnycentric wrote “” concentrate on the real concrete NOW happenings that will affect us dramatically and personally”“.

IF he is refering to the increasingly dictatorial powers that GWB is assuming , i’m with him on that at least !! The same for blackbox voting and all the other crookedness.

IF many people find it impossible to imagine a MIHOP 911Conspiracy, the important thing is not to alienate them all.

Remember there is still no 100% proof that the Nazis burnt the Reichstag in 1933.

WHATEVER, that was HITLER’S 911, and he then passed his “”“PATRIOT ACT”“” .

PS from nat’s “fair and balanced” link above, led me to a link where 2 people wrote, & I paraphrase;  ” knowing what we strongly suspect about OKLA,.............”

must go, can’t keep the dentist waiting! ughh

Posted by frog on Feb 10, 2006 at 6:13 AM

Guys, I can’t even read this. Have to force myself to stay off the board for two weeks so I can get with the seed starts and spring cleaning, and a good bit of research on nuclear issues.

The sun is out! It’s miraculous!

Fight the good fight. I’ll miss you, and will slap my hands more than once, I surmise. Shoot it will take my hours to catch up on the reading when I get back.

Ya’ll might want to look up the story about the alleged terrorist attack of a building in LA. Someone in a spy agency said the administration was “full of shit”. The mayor of LA is irked that no one talked to him about it. Evidently news channels have been playing and replaying footage from Independence Day to illustrate what didn’t happen to a building. Dolts.

Posted by wileywitch on Feb 10, 2006 at 10:54 AM

Wiley Witch:

I strongly object to how you characterized our “news media.”

I strongly object because we do NOT have one. LOL

To call our “propaganda ministry” that mascarades as an actual news services is to “validate” the “Bush speak” that confuses and befuddles.

To refer to those “outlets” with the adjective “news” should be absolutely avoided.

Call them anything you want but please don’t called them <u> “news” </u> channels.

:)

Posted by johnnyincentx on Feb 10, 2006 at 11:18 AM

johnny,

Please excuse my small criticism, but;

LOL is best used as to acknowledge another’s wit, rather than point to one’s own lack thereof.  It is unfortunate that it has become, like Cheetos and parent’s basements, a cheap, easy and witless substitute for sarcastic snark.  I, and I think most readers, really do appreciate sarcasm when it’s original and funny.  Cliched taunts, not so much.

I concede that emoticon smiley faces are a simple and effective way to indicate sarcasm, but there are other, more literary, ironic devices that can really punch up your prose.  If you must use emoticons, if for none but aesthetic reasons, please, give them a nose. ;-)

Thank you

Posted by luminous beauty on Feb 10, 2006 at 12:27 PM

Luminous:

What are you talking about. I didn’t criticise anyone.

What did you interpret as critiscism?

Posted by johnnyincentx on Feb 10, 2006 at 12:32 PM

johnny,

‘I’m’ criticizing ‘you’.  Just offering some style pointers.  Really.

Posted by luminous beauty on Feb 10, 2006 at 12:51 PM

Heh Lume,

Notice when the rodential self used the leading of the horse type analogy a post ago?  Rabbit swears he had not at that time read Lumens’ post using the same analogy, Lume no doubt remembers two or three more inbstances when we Rabbit and he have independantly usd the same images.

Between you and I, Isn’t it sweet to watch such wondrous patterns?  Assuming Lumens also appreciates the oddness of the pattern, hast thou any comments towards comprehension of such wierdness?  If so please inform the Rabbit and we preferably discuss at Cyberoz for here there be morons.

What does it mean exactly Lumens?

Oh and by the way if anyone is wondering why the font has changed again, please refer to earlier postings about Electrons who hate lies.

It and this is not of the “natural plane”

ie: Beyond three dimensions of existence.

Posted by Rabbit on Feb 11, 2006 at 2:27 AM

Seamus enough is enough!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Stop it Laddie! or the rabbit will have to cut yer nackers off.  Stop yer wee woozling of the word form and do not intefere with the movement of yon wee electrons,.  They be saying to ye, be off.  Be off with ye and begone.  Dinna interfere witrh our dancin and our prancin we be saying what we will and ye dinna be against it.

Seamus, do not offend the wee people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by Rabbit on Feb 11, 2006 at 2:33 AM

Rabbit,

As life is a concatenation of myriad serendipitious events, it should be no surprise when serendipity arises within the apparent chaos of daily living.  It always seems wonderous and magical, none the less.  Maybe because we percieve the world in only three (or four) of its many dimensions.  Maybe because recognition of the serendipitious is an unconscious evolutionary adaptive strategy.  Maybe…?

Posted by luminous beauty on Feb 11, 2006 at 8:57 AM

Personally Rabbit believes a plane hit the Pentagon, preceded by a missile maybe, but it was not the plane that was claimed, that much is a certainty.

Rabbit, forensic analysis using DNA, dental ID, and other methods has identified nearly all of the Pentagon victims:

gory details

If the plane was preceded by a missile, I would expect that there would be numerous reports of two separate impact explosions.  Are you aware of any?

First you concede that indeed a 757 (but not flight 77) hit the Pentagon….As said the rabbit has never doubted a plane hit the Pentagon, but he doubts it was flight 77, a boing 757 is all........But you then post a link to an article that seeks to refute your belief:

The evidence available to the public simply does not support the official version that a Boeing 757-200, with two large engines and massive landing gear, flew close to ground-level and smashed into the wall of the Pentagon. For example, passenger jet landing gear are heavy and durable, however, none were seen being removed from the Pentagon.   (What sort of plane exactly?)

In the uncharacteristic Rense article that I uncharacteristically linked to, there were numerous pictures and links to pictures that showed landing gears.  Wouldn’t you say that this is further proof that Christopher Bollyn is either a snake oil peddler or an incredibly poor reporter?

Posted by Natalie on Feb 11, 2006 at 12:49 PM

The pentagon DNA records could have been planted, may be false, DON’T include any middle eastern men., and have various changes made to the original list etc.

There are reports of a missile from a number of witnesses, and admission (by slip of the tongue) by Cheney that a missile hit the pentagon. A smaller plane was seen, the remains are clearly of a different model plane, in ALL the 911 cases, (can’t quite remember if that includeds the Pensylvania one).

A bit of questionable. DNA evidence, from the same people who are claiming the whole fantastic scenario, withholding the evidence which would allow the truth to be known at every quarter and who are actively working to quell the truth being investigated or heard.  ?  That doesn’t add up to more than as said, more proof that there was NO real evidence to place the alleged terrorists even on the flights.

With a dead story, a nothing case, you still think you can pump life into your dead horse, with some puny detail like whether the planes were swapped or not, or whether or not a missile was used?  You are a Mud Mind.  Nat you are a sad little mud mind if you can see any point to any of these feeble wriggles on the end of the prong of righteous truth.

Begone she-devil.  Resort otherwise to slinging mud and calling the credibility and truthfullness of everyone else into question.  That is your best side, any attempt to raise any facts only ever shoots your own case of the official story into direpute, simply because no single fact exists which actually can be fully accou8nted for, or even explained at all, by the USAck of lies.

You are so twisted and evil you think that everyone else is nasty as well.

Most of the silly buggers who still believe (sic) the sack of lies are merely clinging to the ridiculous notion that that an orgnisation with a history of lying and injuring it’s and other’ people over a three hundred year history at least upon the North American land, which is currently apparently indulging in shocking war crimes and acts of unparalleled aggression, for their own good, and safety.

The rest of us already know that anything which is said without a lot of evidence to back it up, by the organisation which has metamorphosed into the present Neo-Con Junta ruling from Washington, is a lie until proven otherwise.

It was 911 that finally swelled our numbers from the mere hundreds of thousands who knew about WACO. A bit later Oklahoma was easier for us to spot, if not bring attention to.

911 was as far as a coverup goes, a major cock up, and it remains the greatest mystery to many, who have been here longer, that EVERYBODY, hasn’t woken up to the deception even yet.

It was a believeable scenario, in a weird sort of hollywood way, but not something which could be pulled off without a lot of corroberating evidence.  Far more than it would have been possible to amass in the very few hours which led to the announcement by the Junta that they knew not only how but who had done this incredible, unbelievableably effective thing. 

The only conclusion could ever have been that the FBI or some agency had stumbled onto the motherlode of FACTS and Evidence,a nd that it was all going to be made clear, despite it making absolutely NO sense.

That initial shock and awe of your terrified countrymen, has never dissipated for most.  Slowly though, as truth is want to do, it is spreading, and many are learning, as you do, that all the old truths of freedom, truth and democracy have become the biggest lies of all.

Posted by Rabbit on Feb 13, 2006 at 7:37 PM

There is a quote form the “Looniest Conspiracy Theory of All”  which also applies to you Nat the Mud Mind Bat.

The ferocious heat generated by this ghastly Kerosene was, according to the conspiracy theorists, the reason why so many of the WTC victims can’t be identified. DNA is destroyed by heat - although 2000 degrees centigrade isn’t really required, 100 degrees centigrade will generally do the job. This is quite remarkable, because according to the conspiracy theorist, the nature of DNA suddenly changes if you go to a different city.
 
That’s right, if you are killed by an Arab terrorist in New York, your DNA will be destroyed by such temperatures. But if you are killed by an Arab terrorist in Washington, your DNA will be so robust that it can survive temperatures which completely vapourise a sixty-five ton aircraft.

Posted by Rabbit on Feb 13, 2006 at 8:17 PM

I take all this emoting to mean that indeed there are no reports of two separate impact explosions.

I guess that leaves two possibilities:

1) the plane and the missile arrived at precisely the same time.

2) the missile employed a new kind of stealth technology that masks   out all sound and vibration.  A variation on the “neutron bomb”, if you will.

Posted by Natalie on Feb 16, 2006 at 10:25 AM

Getting tired of Natty/rabbit infighting.

She has occasionally some good points worth pursuing.
He may well be right on manythings, but it is still earlydays, and I like to treat my friends arguments with my usual scepticism.

The recent cheney mishap has generated YARDS of perception, and bullshit. And with a relatively simple thing like that, WE KNOW NOTHING !

LIHOP/MIHOP, I dunno anymore !  BUT I do know some things with certainty. Iran/Contra, October Surprise, Presidential pardons for criminals—Bush&Clinton;, Abramoff and his hundred cohorts,Haliburton—GAWDHELPUS !

Without torturing ourselves on 911, 1000 good reasons to string some mothers up .

Alors, Natty; mon amie, do you really approve of gigantic corporate fraud ?

K Street that buys congresspeople ?

Inequality meaning the rich are even richer, & the poor down the drain ?

Electronic voting machines replacing millions of yanks only too happy to turn out and COUNT paper ballots ?

HERE IN FROGLAND NO PROB FOR VOTECOUNTERS.  it’s a privilege to sacrifice some time to triple-count votes, before “whatever” witnesses, in a completely transparent system.

It’s a long way from TEXAS !

Posted by frog on Feb 16, 2006 at 5:06 PM

AND YES ! We have our very own ABB problem here. We all hate Sarkozy, so its ABS here, but we too have no alternative.

Anti-Bush, anti-Sarkozy, but nothing to compete with the horrible little mother.

So yeah, really great to live in a “Democracy”.

As I tell my frogfriends, 1789 was not really a Revolution, about time YOU had one.

Same for you yanks. There must be many millions of you more qualified to be PRESIDENT than the little turd in place;

Posted by frog on Feb 16, 2006 at 5:29 PM

“Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset.
When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage.
America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government.
Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.”
~ Congressman Ron Paul, Aug 9, 2004

Posted by frog on Feb 16, 2006 at 5:49 PM

The Natty has occassionally some small points worth pursuing, which may show some minor detail of speculation is wrong, but overall has never and cannot give any substance to the offiial lies. 

If Frog was able to understand the full history of Natty who is a real SHILL, came to this site under false pretenses and has been caught out.  The infighting as you describe it gives her more credibility than she owns or has any right to, and in all ways she is to be treated as the exception.

SHE is not merely a moron, or dittohead, she is a genuine slimy sleazy lying SHILL.

Just one tiny detail which is completely different to evry single other person of any beliefs on this site or really any site where the person has been on site for many months and hundreds of postings.  Natty has never given even the tiniest hint of a detail about herself.  The only things she has ever claimed for herself, like open mind, lack of foreknowledge of a subject, have proven to be completely false.  We know absoluetly nothing else about her.  She is nothing but a propaganda machine and consideration of this one detail should make any thinking person gp.  Hmm!

Frankly though FROG it is not important for Rabbit tires of the wasted energy too.  The time is too short and the ignorant cannot be helped.  The Natty and here kind cannot alter anybody’s opinion, only delay the inevitable day until people wake up, and since the delay is no longer necessary, time is up, rabbit cares no more for the existence or otherwise of the most dishonest and disgustingly base person he has ever encountered on the internet.

Posted by Rabbit on Feb 16, 2006 at 9:52 PM

Natalie.

Last but not least the rabbit will state his own position about the 911 tragedy.  The following is his beliefs.  They have not changed in any way since first speaking about the issue many months ago on other threads.  Although Natty especially has attempted to put words into the rabbit’s mouth, building and attacking strawmen of her own making, nothing Natty has ever said has directly discredited the following simple and quite obvious conclusion.

*** <u>The official story about 911, including the government’s lack of foreknowledge or involvement is completely and provably false.</u>***

# The US government and Pentagon would indeed resort to such horrific acts to alter the nation’s perception and mood for war, they have planned to do so before and like many governments over history have done so before.  The planned Operation Northwoods is all the proof you need of that.

All the rest is only smoke and mirrors designed to cloud rather than highlighht those few simple and confirmable details.

No amount of small nitpicking will change the basic fact that the buildings were brought down by demolition charges, it is obvious, provable, witnessed and it is the ONLY thing necessary to show the government or some within it’s own apparatus were responsible.

The very fact of the withholding of SO MUCH evidence which would clarify the many questions people are asking, is an admission of guilt, and I accept it as such.  Millions do.

NO substantial evidence exists to support the official lie, yet at the very least lots of evidence and documents and witnesses are behind many of the alternative theories.

That is where it starts and ends.  Until the government releases the evidence it is holding, the speculation must continue, and since the corps of believers in the bullshit is shrinking you will ineveitably lose.  Unfortunately, they are only trying to buy time I fear, they must know the gig is basically up.

Posted by Rabbit on Feb 16, 2006 at 9:53 PM

Why do I bother?  Rabbit looks to the sky.

<i>I guess that leaves two possibilities:

1) the plane and the missile arrived at precisely the same time.

2) the missile employed a new kind of stealth technology that masks out all sound and vibration.  A variation on the

Posted by Rabbit on Feb 17, 2006 at 5:13 AM

bonjour lapin!
In my netwanderings over years, come across many cases of suspicious “planecrashes”, often with surprising numbers of “FBI”  surprisingly fast on the scene to cordon off and cart away the evidence.

The Muwakkil argument is that GWB

Posted by frog on Feb 17, 2006 at 6:15 AM

Nothing amazing about the cross party fuckfest. 

If you begin with the right realisations to start with.

We (some) have argued that there is no difference between the two major parties, or in some cases three or four , when it comes to enforcing the NWO agenda. 

Even a new party like One Nation here in Oz, which comes onto the scene and attracts a sizeable following, is quickly infiltrated and either emasculated or turned to the cause.  The basic pattern of two party sytems, usually by defacto, is that both are merely variations on the same overall theme.  One party says we attack Iraq for lies.

The other party argues we should attack it more forcefully for the same lies.  The illusion that there is any difference is helped a bit, by the opposition party straying furthest from the government policy only when they are weakest.  They both seem to enjoy roughly equal support most of the time.  In this way the actual elections are of no more consequence to the puppet masters than as a means to keep us fed and happy.  We are allowed to pretend we have a say in our own government.  A critical illusion, for even the puppet masters have need of a curtain to hide them.  Elections are that curtain.

We are seeing how as people are not following the required path, even in the event the difference was only in scale, as in Bush / Kerry, then the results even of our voting may be manipulated.  Even the semblance of free choice is being removed now and few seem to notice, or care.

These words are equally true for Oz, Canada, Britain or the USA.  Most of our nations are playing the same game.  I see an orchestral performance internationally, more than a battle of the bands, to use a loathesome, pop image.  Thus the actual leaders, the figureheads really, are selected not by us, but by others.  This is logically the only way such “coincidences” as the number of Rhodes Scholars, the number of Bonesmen etc who rise to positions of power within our various governments, could occur.  We the voters rarely if ever find out about such affiliations until after the fact, certainly it doesn’t ever form part of the selection criteria most people use to choose a candidate.

The only chance we have is a complete revolution. A human level revolution, one which becomes more a rejection than an alternative choice.  Seriously I think we need an international movement which is of all things based not upon an alternative plan.  We need a complete and univresal rejection of the current way of running human affairs.  A genuine grassroots rejection of all the bullshit, the reasons, the theory, the limitations artificially built into our perceptions by greedy and insane manipulors.  The idea that we need some sort of answer, some sort of plan to replace it with, is complete bunk.

Rabbit is an Anarchist.

Posted by Rabbit on Feb 18, 2006 at 9:18 PM

An Anarchist!

“There’ll be time enough for counting when the dealing’s done”
————————————-Kenny Rogers

How the hell is such a fundamental revolution going to stay on track from now until the complete overthrow of the present inherited system of corruption and manipulation?  How can anybody be simple enough to imagine they can picture such a future clearly enough to propose an alternative way of government?  We can’t!  So don’t try.  Let us concentrate on the job of removing the liars from positions of influence. 

The masters’ puppets must be rejected.  Take away the puppets and the bastards will not only be invisible they will be as good as gone from our reality.  The true revolution seeks change, a destruction of the old, as being wrong, and anathema to our existence.  It does not have to provide an alternative, since such ideas are based upon clear vision, acceptance and not denial of reality.  Such clarity is equally able to recognise that we cannot predict the aftermath, thus to assume we will, is only to ensure that a failsafe is being provided to ensure that any change we make will still be recognisable from the point where we stand today.  This is false thinking if revolution, the complete change is sought.  We manage then at best only a partial change from the old.  A change with a view to reversal almost.

The revolutionary must accept that he is cut adrift from all the past and yet has no foot in the future.  Once the future is come will be time enough to take stock and see what works best.

Plans are good for picnics, holidays and campaigns.  We are talking about total revolution which is an act of creation only as it takes shape.

The following is a very well presented piece.

If I had not already long since understood that the WTC’s were demolished by explosives, that the official story is complete trash, then after reading this, I would have been.

Any who actually read this link and who still wish to defend the official lie are not serious. 

I confidantly declare this article, the logic and conclusions it espouses as being check mate on the whole business.  Rabit is uninterested in discussing further anything except what is included in this.

It alone is enough to put the facts in perspective and makes a scientifically irrefutable case.

Science versus the lies.

Posted by Rabbit on Feb 18, 2006 at 9:20 PM

Rabbit said:  “Bin Laden in the last genuine and fully accredited live appearance, denied a second time that he or Al-Qeada had anything to do with it.”

Now that’s just categorically untrue.  Bin Laden admitted to the act in the video found in Afghanistan, and also in his more recent 2004 appearance.  There was an initial report in a Pakistani paper of him denying involvement, but in retrospect, if these were actually his words, (could easily have been Taliban disinfo) it’s pretty obvious he was simply trying to deny the U.S. the legitimacy of invading Afghanistan. 

On October 29, 2004, at 21:00 UTC, the Arab television network Al Jazeera broadcast excerpts from a videotape of Osama bin Laden addressing the people of the United States, in which he takes responsibility for the September 11, 2001 attacks, condemns the Bush government’s response to those attacks, and presents those attacks as part of a campaign of revenge and deterrence begun after having personally seen destruction in the Lebanese Civil War in 1982.

Wikipedia

Posted by Natalie on Feb 19, 2006 at 7:29 PM

I doubt that Osama is still alive. Probably died in December 2001.

Osama bin Laden : A dead nemisis perpetuated by the US government

The Fake 2004 Bin Laden Tape

Posted by David in Canada on Feb 21, 2006 at 5:25 PM

“We haven’t heard from him in a long time,” Bush told reporters at the White House. “I truly am not that concerned about him.”
George Bush on March 14, 2002

Osama bin Laden is, quite literally, a weapon of mass convenience.

Posted by David in Canada on Feb 21, 2006 at 5:34 PM

The Fake 2001 Osama

The Fake 2002 Osama

Posted by David in Canada on Feb 21, 2006 at 5:39 PM

BOO

Osama’s ghost is gonna getcha.

Posted by David in Canada on Feb 21, 2006 at 5:40 PM

You’re in some pretty deep 9/11 denial, there David.  You’re gonna trust a politically motivated rumor monger over sophisticated voice and face analyzing technology?  I can’t trust my own personal powers of facial recognition?  Everything’s faked?  I guess everything has to be in order to continue this line of denial.

Consider for a moment that Michael Rivero might just be the one who’s faking you out here, and is making a tidy profit by doing it.

I would love it if he (bin Laden) were in fact dead, but I’m afraid he’s simply not.

more to the story

Posted by Natalie on Feb 22, 2006 at 12:47 AM

Thanks for the link Natalie.

Isn’t it possible that the person who created that site you linked to is a politically motivated rumor monger and just   faking you out and making a tidy profit by doing it ?? Where is the sophisticated voice and face analyzing technology ?

Is it possible that Osama is dead? Or do you refuse to consider the possibility because you are in deep denial?

Posted by David in Canada on Feb 22, 2006 at 1:08 AM

... and Natalie ... I said that I doubt that Osama is still alive.

That is different than saying I know or believe that he is alive.

Posted by David in Canada on Feb 22, 2006 at 1:10 AM

... and different than saying I know or believe that he is dead. Do you understand?

Posted by David in Canada on Feb 22, 2006 at 1:11 AM

Natty is telling someone else they are in denial?  Hilarious.

The Bin Laden tapes you refer to have been discounted as fake by the worlds top experts in Bin Laden and voice analysis chicken.  Dave points this out via his links too I think.  Ain’t no doubt about that, the analyses were quite firm.  Even the appearance in the video changed so much from one to another, the nose, the fat Bin Laden, etc.  Pull the other one.

Bin Laden appeared twice to start with and nobody disputes this was the real him. Both times he denied any involvement in 911.  Then the fake tapes turned up and claimed otherwise, and named the official hijacer list precisely.  This was before a number of those names were publically shown and accepted to be false.  Bit of a problem there I’d say.  More obvious even is the simple question, “Why would Bin Laden lie the first time and say he disn’t do it,  then change his tune?”  Do you think maybe he was hoping to keep it secret to start with?  Lying to protect himself?  Do you even know why terrorists are supposed to perform acts of terror?  Does it make any sense not to make instant and complete claim for responsibility?  In fact it was once normal practice for the real perpetrators of such things to ensure they could prove their hand, in the event somebody else claimed responsibility.

Maybe you have just got some ad-hominem argument about that.  Like even he could have been ashamed of what he did?  Is that good?  Do you like it? Sorry Rabbit thought of it first, it’s bullshit, and so is the official lie.

.......................................................................................

Posted by Rabbit on Feb 22, 2006 at 2:27 AM

It seems the beloved DU is taking another mortal hit, oh no, help, the Natty’s baby, depleted uranium is being uncovered.  The filth she has been helping to hide has leaked out under the covers of her dirty shill bat wings.  Told you it would come out eventually didn’t I Nat?

[url=“http://www.freemarketnews.com/WorldNews.asp?nid=8018”]The Preventive Psychiatry Newsletter has written to its subscribers telling them that the real reason the former Veterans Affairs Secretary, Anthony Principi, recently resigned was because he has been involved in a massive scandal covering up the fact that Gulf War Syndrome was caused by the use of depleted uranium, according to the SF Bay View.
 
In the article Arthur Bernklau, executive director of Veterans for Constitutional Law, reportedly wrote that “thousands of our military have suffered and died from, [and depleted uranium] has finally been identified as the cause of this sickness, eliminating the guessing. The terrible truth is now being revealed.” Bernklau went on to detail several alarming statistics. The historical disability rate amongst soldiers last century was about 5 percent, although it approached 10 percent during Vietnam. But due to the use of depleted uranium in the battlefield, 56 percent of the 580,400 solders that served in the first Gulf War were on Permanent Medical Disability by 2000. 11,000 Gulf War veterans are already dead. Now 518,739 Gulf War Veterans, almost all of them, are currently on medical disability.
 
Principi, under the order of the Bush Administration, had been allegedly covering up the disastrous results of using depleted uranium since 2000. However, with so many soldiers having serious health problems it has become impossible to keep secret.
[/url]

Don’t forget this is from the first Gulf War.  Much less exposure than this time round.

Get ready for the figures from this round of Depleted Uranium abuse, it is at least ten times as prolific remember. 

My God that is hard to imagine.

300 tons of DU, has caused the disabilities of up to 518,739, of the 580,400 veterans of that conflict.  (We have a high figure among our Gulf War vets too, not sure what though not this high).

This time around the figures are reliably estimated at between 3000 and 4000 tons of DU spread about.  Also the troops are actually stationed inside the actual war zone this time rather than mostly standing outside and shooting in.

Not that Rabbit is asking anyone actually to consider the ramifications to the Iraqis.  Who cares about them, if they mattered they would not have been on the recieving end of all that ordnance in the first place.

Posted by Rabbit on Feb 22, 2006 at 2:27 AM

The impossibility of the alleged hijackers having been able to fly the aircraft.

Add to this the impossibility of the cell phone calls having been made at the altitudes of the flights as shown previously, and the lack of any real evidence which places any of them on the planes.  Not even on the passenger lists!

Rabbit too doubts Bin Laden is still alive, and as Dave says this is not the same as saying you know he is not, or even believe he is not alive.  We simply doubt it.  But unlike your hysterical claims to know he is alive, which YOU cannot do, that is at least backed up by international experts opinions as well. Not to mention the appearances garnered from the obvious fakery in his name.  The lack of refutation from the real one alone suggests he is no longer around to do so.

He has a forerunner in history, it is Snowball, from George Orwell’s Animal Farm.

The real life version is even more transparent than Orwells imagined strawman enemy.  You know all about strawmen Natty. he is a strawman, probably a dead one, and a dead Bin Laden is more deadly than a live one.  A dead one can never be caught.  A dead one can be in twenty places at once, or nowhere.  A dead one can say what you want him to say, a live one could always react unpredictably.  Oh yes he is dead all right, and they know it.  Seems a fair guess, NO credible evidence exists to show otherwise.

Didn’t anybody else figure out what the story was when the US suddenly lost interest in chasing Bin Laden, at about the same time as rumours were floating about he was dead?  Well it sure wasn’t hard to figure out from outside the bubble. 

Oh the talk goes on but the truth is he is and always was a convenient bogey man.  Rabbit is not and never was afraid of him by the way.  Most people were not.  Now most people are afraid of the USA and it’s weapons of mass destruction as well as its intentions with regard to using them.  That is a very real and valid fear. 

Bizzaro World

Posted by Rabbit on Feb 22, 2006 at 3:14 AM

<blockquote>....a cry of despair broke from every animal

Posted by David in Canada on Feb 22, 2006 at 9:15 AM

Thanks Dave, the quote is excellent.  ........Excellent. 

I started reading Screwtape again the other day.  Might have to give Owell a brushing up again too.  Time my two oldest kids read 1984, and Animal Farm.  They might as well, they’re living it.

Rabbit see’s that old Deadeye Dick was purportedly pissed as a newt, drunk as a skunk and shitfaced to boot, when he shot the old lawyer in his face, from about ten meters away.  According to the Secret Service, and since they are ready to take a bullet for the VP why would they feel inclined to lie about it?

Cheney was pissed according to the SS

Posted by Rabbit on Feb 22, 2006 at 9:42 PM

<i>Isn

Posted by Natalie on Feb 23, 2006 at 1:42 AM

This is incontrovertible proof that Chris Bollyn is a deliberately misleading journalist.  In fact, the words “journalist” and “Chris Bollyn” shouldn’t appear within a hundred miles of each other.  Out of all the “truth” articles that have abused and misused Bill Manning’s Fire Engineering editorial from Jan. 2002, this particular article is far and away the most blatant.  Instead of simply leaving out the key sentence that would of course make referring to Manning’s editorial counterproductive in the first place, Bollyn actually uses part of the sentence and weaves it in and out of his own words to create his desired outcome:

Manning challenged the theory that the towers collapsed as a result of the crashed airliners and the subsequent fuel fires, saying, “Respected members of the fire protection engineering community are beginning to raise red flags, and a resonating theory has emerged: The structural damage from the planes and the explosive ignition of jet fuel in themselves were not enough to bring down the towers.”

An eyewitness to the collapse told AFP that as he stood two blocks from the World Trade Center he had seen “a number of brief light sources being emitted from inside the building between floors 10 and 15.” He saw about six of these brief flashes, accompanied by a “crackling sound” immediately before the tower collapsed.

World according to Bollyn

From the last paragraph, it’s clear that Bollyn is attempting to imply that explosives were planted in the building.  But what’s not clear to the unsuspecting reader is the fact that in order to support his implication, he has seen fit to butcher and manipulate the words of Manning, to the point of actually making nearly the opposite point that Manning was trying to make.  Bollyn reconstructs the editorial to read as if Manning doesn’t believe that fire of any kind directly caused the collapse.  But in reality, Manning said that his theory was that the content fires resulting from the jet fuel bomb did “directly cause the collapses in an alarmingly short time.”

Again, in context:

“However, respected members of the fire protection engineering community are beginning to raise red flags, and a resonating theory has emerged: The structural damage from the planes and the explosive ignition of jet fuel in themselves were not enough to bring down the towers. Rather, theory has it, the subsequent contents fires attacking the questionably fireproofed lightweight trusses and load-bearing columns directly caused the collapses in an alarmingly short time. Of course, in light of there being no real evidence thus far produced, this could remain just unexplored theory.

And this is a source that Steven Jones uses in his supposedly peer-reviewed, scholarly scientifically based paper.  Is Jones really this naive to cite such deliberate dissemblers as Bollyn, or is he of the same mindset?

Posted by Natalie on Feb 23, 2006 at 2:08 AM

Natalie,

It’s funny that you criticize the guy for carrying ads on his website. So are newspapers and television news programs suspect in the articles and information they publish because they too have ads for revenue purposes?

By the way, I have never intentionally clicked on an ad on the internet and have a blocker to stop ads from popping up so, as usual, advertisers are simply wasting their time and money when it comes to influencing me.

Maybe the lack of ads on the 9/11 myths site is cause for suspicion. Smacks of sponsorship and propaganda? or are they sincerely seeking after the truth?

Rest assured, Natalie, I always have a mouthful of salt. Whether it is the newspaper, the news anchor, an internet site, politicians, doctors, priests, my friends, my family, or anyone else, I will verify the facts , weigh the opinions, as best I can, and make up my own mind.

<i>Of course it

Posted by David in Canada on Feb 23, 2006 at 9:33 AM

It would be nice if everything was black and white. If good guys wore white hats and bad guys wore black hats. We live in a world of grey shadows.

Posted by David in Canada on Feb 23, 2006 at 9:37 AM

rabbit, dave from canada,
I watched this video, but did not manage to save it, being a technoidiot .
The scholars for truth site is taking off, I recommend video from 911revisited.

RICK SIEGEL film , 911eyewitness

Posted by frog on Feb 24, 2006 at 2:47 PM

rabbit
“crossparty fuckfest”.
I was actually refering to the very interesting POSSIBLE new alliance of disparate viewpoints in the US. AND elsewhere. EVERYWHERE ?

I was once called a “real” anarchist myself , by a friend who had been hunted by the secret police of his country. In Europe. Very thought-provoking your posts of 18feb !

I have no ideal PLAN for an ideal society either,  I just hate the abuse of power, the very idea of “power” itself.

From the beginning I suspected demolition.  It took me months to accept it at 50% probablity. Another 2 years to get to 70%. Four years to get to 99%.

Watching again and again, seeing the superstructure of WTC7 “sink” before the rest came down, i’m getting close to 100%.

A usually forgotten element is WTC 6, and the exploding cars reported by many eyewitnesses. ???

As for UBL/OBL, I can believe he’s dead, and am fairly sure he had nothing to do with 911.

Another thing. Natty deserves a pay-rise, because she is doing a good job reviving our interest when it flags.

Posted by frog on Feb 24, 2006 at 3:39 PM

Naty says one thing only which needs to be answered.

“<i>There just isn

Posted by Rabbit on Feb 25, 2006 at 8:37 PM

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

Even that once proud sounding name has a similar distasteful ring to it, at least out here in the wider world.  The day may well come in the next few decades where just as with Nazi Swastikas today, it will be a faux par and libale to arouse righteous anger and condemnation on any who would publiucally display an American Bars and Stripes.

This is not a gratuitous insult.  Rabbit has noticed lately how the image of the US is finally after slipping and sliding for some time, solidifying again.  It is taking shape and I cannot explain to an American other than to think of the Nazi swastika, and the images it conjurs, the automatic disgust.  The outrage.  The symbol however different it’s origins, has been forever branded, outcast, demon. 

Truly something is coagulating now out of the last few decades of American dominance.  It was still nearly intact for most of us, up to about 2002, then the slide had reached critical mass, or the outrages and crimes became so blatant and brutal, that the dam broke.

After a time of being in flux, the new image has a particular flavour to it.  Soon Rabbit will be able to give a clearer definition.  Imagine the Swastika, Rabbit sees it’s symbol riding across the foreground of a scene of fire and explosions, buildings cities burning.  Hordes of people walking into furnaces, in ragged clothes, thin and starving.  Pol Pot for example conjurs images of mountains of skulls and bones.

The USA has set in motion something which they cannot control directly, for it will be a product made by others, on their behalf.  No Empire gets to write it’s own eulogy.  No tyrant either.  The Eulogies wil be given by your survivors. 

It seems a little early to finalise, but the shape of the coming one for you, is becoming clear.

This is the State of the Union.  The USA is the one committing all the abuses, whatever you want to call them. DU in the enemies hands is a dirty bomb.  In your hands it is a lifesaving device.  Used to prevent injury by some twisted logic you still have not sold me on.

The USA is the one who has invaded countries for NO honest reason and against all international treaties designed to prevent unilateral action and war crime abuses.

The USA is the country with a court appointed president who lacks support of even half the country anymore.
The USA is the country with the secret detentions, the torture camps and concentration camps.  The USA is the country which is building concentration camps designed to hold up to a million or more in some individual camps, out of a so far confirmed 600.

Here comes Natalie, and uses as her main argument, indeed her only coherant one against all the evidence supplied above the following.

The US government would never do such a horrible thing.

NEWSFLASH:

All societies have in their midst psychopaths who if they rose to power will become dreadful even evil tyrants. 

Many countries who have otherwsie always been valuable members of the world community, have become hell holes and caused trouble for others occassionally. The tyrants in such Juntas often resort to false terrorism to strengthen their hold over the people they have instead usurped from a deciding role in their own future. 

In your case they have simply risen to power.

911 was like a loud ringing bell, as they announced themselves to the world.

We heard and we saw, and we watch you still. 

Your leaders are incredibly inept, they are obviopusly vipers. They may fool Americans but nobody else is buying any of it.

You can lie to yourself, but you cannot lie to the world. 

Or you can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time.

Guess who the some of the people all of the time come from?  USA of course.

..........................

Posted by Rabbit on Feb 25, 2006 at 8:49 PM

That is the simple and straight up reason you will never stop the truth coming out on this.  Why it is growing and not fading with time.  You call it a conspiracy theory?

It is one hell of a big conspiracy theory to include so many government leaders in the USA and elsewhere, engineers, physicists and many whistleblowers who come from many walks of government.  The numbers and the qualifications of the poeple who are speaking out against the LIE are growing fast.

Boy that is some imagination you’ve got, and Paranoid.  Why not just accept the truth. Suck it up, and accept that the only logical answer given the amount of evidence, is also the most historically likely scenario as well. 

Then a whole lot of things will make sense. 

Like why you are having to make excuses for banned weapons of war and for Torture and laws allowing torture as well.  Maybe the hguge and growing hatred of the USA worldwide, even among former friends, has actually got a real solid root cause in your own actions no more.

Eventually your own legal system will be bypassed and the issue dealt with beyond your own borders.  You just don’t realise that there is a limit to any power.  The more you use your power the quicker you will find that limit.

The limit is now just beyond the horizon. 

Attack another innocent muslim country and see if Rabbit isn’t right.

Go ahead, baby, make my day.

Posted by Rabbit on Feb 25, 2006 at 8:49 PM

Frog, Nattyy should be burying the isue, not reviving it, if she is to be paid.

She isn’t very good value for a shill, it has been said by many, but heh, what sort of people would make clowns out of themselves and lie like whores for a buck anyway?.

Posted by Rabbit on Feb 25, 2006 at 8:56 PM

Dear rabbit,
I hovered between a perception of Natty as a paid Shill, and the alternative of being a misguided Believer in all Bushworld lies.

Her ‘automatic defence’ against the DU evidence leads towards the first interpretation.

Her feb23 post ” I do HOPE you are correct ,however” is very very amusing,” to us”. SHE hoped that OLB was dead in 2001!

SO What explains the subsequent   OLB videos & tapes ? EACH of them came at a usefuful moment for CHENEY&CO;.

Rabbit, dave and i know well these were a very small part of their propaganda offensive.

Posted by frog on Feb 26, 2006 at 1:09 PM

the inestimable, and discerning Frog, has noticed the key.  Indeed if you possessed an inordinate amount of free time you could peruse the landing zone and battle ground of the landing of Natalie and you might even be able to lend an opinion on the only attempt, half assed at that which the Lagomorph made to ID the Bi-atch.

Is it just a co-incidence?  Notice the actual placement of the candidate…............ ideal for a Shill?

Is the avoidance of Rendon refs a clue as is it’s usual avoidance of anything potentially problematic for itself?

Nat the morphing Bat

Is Roger Ramjet, aka Lt Col Roger “Ramjet” Helbig, the Daddy of Bat?

Once it becomes apparent that shill be what shill is, then maybe also the amphibious friend will understand the fascination of the eminently curious Rodent of the Fields, Ground Mutton to the lancashire bigots, Bunny to the Chocky egg and Rodent of Love, healthful hopper, flies at low altitudes,...rabbit…...........^^........................for its dark and loathsome visage.

sorry just had a sort of allegorical orgasm thing then

Think of the Bat, think of Nat, ..............erk…....yuk…..

Its OK .........now the rabbit, is relaxed.

Anyway Rabbit was only looking to ensure that Nitty Natty wasn’t squeaking without an answer, and since he also has the following up his furry sleeve.

J. Edgar Hoover said, “The individual is handicapped by coming face-to-face with a “conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists.” http://www.savethemales.ca/000166.html
 
The Illuminati, a Luciferian secret society, the highest echelon of Freemasonry, controls the world. (That’s their logo on the US dollar along with the words “we did it!” in Latin.)
 
Lucifer represents man’s rebellion against natural and moral laws i.e. God’s design. The Luciferians are very rich. They need to short circuit God’s plan in order to impose their own satanic “New World Order.”
 
Society is being inducted into a Luciferian cult via the mass media and education. It promotes our animal instincts because we are becoming human cattle and serfs.
 
The Illuminati created Nazism and Communism (and Zionism), and every war including the “War on Terror.”  
 
Wittingly or unwittingly, our “leaders” have sworn allegiance to the Illuminati, the price of success today.
 
Look at Dylan Avery’s video “9-11 Loose Change” and tell me the ruling class is not accomplice to mass murder or its cover-up.
 
 
The Sept. 11 outrage took place exactly eleven years after George H.W. Bush
proclaimed the “New World Order”  to Congress Sept. 11, 1990.

Coincidence?
 
The day Rabbit awoke. 

Upon hearing these words, the Rabbit awoke from the closest he had ever been to the mind numbing slumber which characterises the followers of the NWO doctrine.
 
An adjacent 47-floor building, World Trade Center Seven, was deliberately demolished on Sept. 11, 2001. Another coincidence?
 
The Illuminati have declared war on God and the human race. We are cannon fodder, their human sacrifice.
 
The human race has suffered more than enough duplicity and degradation to justify revolt. But we have been programmed by occult magicians to accept our suffering as inevitable, necessary and even heroic.
</i>

Posted by Rabbit on Feb 26, 2006 at 8:55 PM

Rabbit was born in 1990, he is thus a 16 year old veteran of the truth movement.

Hmm…...

No big deal, just thinking how it can actually be precisely Identified, when I became aware that things were seriously amiss in Eden.

Sepetember 11, 1990.  I was in Denmark, and in perfect context, even then an staunch American ally, I heard Daddy Bush use those words, NEW WORLD ORDER.

Then I knew the war had begun.

Posted by Rabbit on Feb 26, 2006 at 9:04 PM

By being born obviously Rabbit means born into awaken state. 

Before this he was just a sheep.

A Ram sheep, for sure, but not a Rabbit who sees and hops.

Posted by Rabbit on Feb 26, 2006 at 9:06 PM

Frog is a slower learner but pretty sure. He watches patiently unmoving, and then can turn into a feline and pounce. Fooled somepeople in his time , who couldn’t believe in this transformational ability. Similar to the ‘cornered rabbit’ .

It takes him a lot of time to unlearn the deeply instilled lessons from a lifetime of exposure to halftruth and outright lies. He does this he supposes for some loony love of truth, some crazy optimistic knowledge that there are far more potentially goodpeople on this planet than there are downright evil ones. Also because he wanted to help his kids and grandkids to learn and understand faster and more efficiently than his own halting and mediocre progress through life.

It turns out that frog does not need to be their teacher, their ‘indoctrinator’. It appears they were brought up (indoctrinated ?) to learn , to rack their brains, to be intellectually rigorous, and they are now valued colleagues, fellow researchers, and active. And muchloved.

The nice thing about being older, no kids to bring up, almost enough to live on, is that he can be completely ‘irresponsible’ !  He can follow nattyleads, rabbitleads, daveleads, lindorffleads on DU, and then rack his poor old brain about how best to synthesise all this in the very best way to pass on the essential stuff.

I spose frog was beginning his birth about 2000, and it has been long and painful, and slow. No Damascene conversion, no sudden rebirth, just an awakening.

Your Pilger is partly responsible ! He reminds me of a story my Perth doctor uncle told me against himself. They had a 30? anniv graduation reunion of quacks in the South Island. A fellow grad turned up, probably dressed in jeans, famous for his work on eyedisease in aborigenes, saw the group, and said ;

“Hello, you bunch of grey-suited CAPITALIST BASTARDS”.

Posted by frog on Feb 27, 2006 at 1:11 PM

Frog now takes some time-out to send some links to his loved ones.

Funny how a term so well satyrised by nancy mitford ? is now part of the language.

He thought it was about time he shared his 911 thoughts with them. May seem very late to some of you, but he wanted to be sure of what to say, what to send.

Here in frogland we are bombarded with Propaganda, ‘immediate panic-stuff ’ about Iran Menace for 4months now.  But there is a groundswell of Disbelief which originated last year during the campaign for the European Constitution. For the very first time, for many people, they noticed HOW all the media were speaking with one voice, and became disgusted.

like Dem/Gop in the USA, they began to see there was no difference.

Posted by frog on Feb 27, 2006 at 1:54 PM

A compelling and fine presentation the rabbit just found after having lost the link for a while.

Bush Junta COMPLICITY in 911.

............................................^^..............................................Rabbit looks up, see’s Frog!

Hello Frog

Thankyou. I liked reading that.  Rabbit too, for most of it, but yet to reach the stage of finished raising young ones.  These people who come from the Rabbit and the Snake’s mating are amazing.
It is hard to explain why Rabbit always knew evil was afoot, but it wasn’t a gradual awakening instead more the answers to a quest to find the source of the terrible stink of something very wrong.

Posted by Rabbit on Feb 27, 2006 at 10:03 PM

vanunu in OZ
made me think of rabbit.
Frog was following a mossadlink inspired by cartoon thread to victor ostrovsky, and ended up downunder.

Posted by frog on Mar 1, 2006 at 11:16 AM

Frog

Rabbit occassionally sends a note of encouragement to Mordecai.  He sure has paid a high price for his naivete, but it was yet well that he got the information out when he did.

Actually it is quite strange how often Oz finds it self peripherally involved in world events way beyond our interests.  Surprising too how many whistleblowers, activists etc end up here, at least for a decade or so.

Joe Vialls was living not far from here, in Perth, until he died recently.

Posted by Rabbit on Mar 2, 2006 at 6:30 PM

Frog

Reading that link is fascinating thankyou.

It is not merely Australia, but Perth where these things were connected.  In fact Rabbit has been remarkably close to the flame in this case, knowing quite a bit more about some of the people involved and how they interconnect with other things, the whole lot does a complete circle back to the USA through a certain political organisation.  The nexus is for Rabbit alone to see, and it has got him seriously pondering it all. 

Isn’t it funny how things come to together sometimes in life?

Events, places and people, which have known Rabbit’s presence, with apparently no more in common than that. Yet amazing how many times something one day comes up which makes the whole random collection fall into place like a jigsaw, and a rabbit is left wondering at the weirdness of it all.

Rabbit saw untold amounts of money desperately trying to quit the ME, whilst backpacking in Thailand, just before Iraq invaded Kuwait.  At the time it was a weird and exciting adventure he was on, but the meaning of it never dawned until several years later and the Gulf War was over and certain people and events made the news.

Posted by Rabbit on Mar 2, 2006 at 7:45 PM

Bonjour rabbit;

you may remember frog “thinking ”  discretion in widowvisiting round the corner.  He looked to see recent sightings of ari ben but none. frog waits patiently. victor ostrovsky looks genuine, ari ben much more complicated !

From early 70’s ulster-watching frog noticed how swiftly the political and criminal become entwined, with the latter coming to dominate.

Things coming together, and wow !

Frog remembers 40yrs back when we soldiers were invited to participate in innocuous medical experiments—“operation antler, porton down”
Frog remembers how 25yrs back a chance meeting at a cocktailparty led him to do some minor broking deals for BCCI.

And then years and years later they fall into place.
Lucky frog, no officer propositioned him, he also prefered remaining a humble moneybroker rather than working for a bank.

Barbara Tuchman the march of folly is an interesting study of how governments insist on doing things against their own ‘national interest’. 
Weird now, with that perspective, to search the world for any government working for the national interest, the good of all its people. i exclude the crims.

The first criterion would be to have nothing to do with the IMF, World Bank !

Posted by frog on Mar 3, 2006 at 6:21 AM

9/11 cops saw collapse coming

New York Daily News - June 19th, 2004

By PAUL H.B. SHIN

The World Trade Center towers showed telltale signs they were about to collapse several minutes before each crumbled to the ground, scientists probing the Sept. 11, 2001, disaster said yesterday.

In the case of the north tower, police chopper pilots reported seeing the warning signs - an inward bowing of the building facade - at least eight minutes before it collapsed at 10:29 a.m.

But emergency responders inside the tower never got the order to evacuate due to faulty communications equipment and garbled lines of command, investigators with the National Institute of Standards and Technology said in its second interim report on the collapse’s causes.

“The NYPD aviation unit reported critical information about the impending collapse of the buildings,” lead investigator Shyam Sunder said at a presentation in midtown.

“[If] that information would have been communicated faster to all of the emergency responders in the buildings, it could have helped save lives,” he said.

Engineers believe the bowing of the exterior steel beams near the flame-engulfed floors was the critical “triggering point” because that’s the direction each tower tilted as it came crashing down.

The findings that emergency responders could have been warned about the imminent collapse angered some victims’ relatives, who were already fuming about the 9/11 Commission’s report on Thursday that government foulups contributed to the chaos on that fateful day.

“Eight to 10 minutes could have meant life for so many people,” said Sally Regenhard, whose son, Christian, was a probationary firefighter who died in the collapse.

“We had no integrated command structure, so that the Police Department was unable to communicate the fact that the building was going to collapse to the Fire Department,” she said. “It’s a knife in the heart of the relatives of the victims.”

Other key findings include:

Even though the jet fuel on the planes burned off in the first few minutes after impact, there was enough office furniture to sustain intense fires for at least an hour.

If the twin towers had been fully occupied - 25,000 people - it would have taken four hours to evacuate the buildings.

The original builders of the twin towers and those who later renovated the structures did not have a clear technical standard for deciding on how much insulation to use around the structural beams, many of which gave way in the intense heat.

Source

Posted by Natalie on Mar 24, 2006 at 9:59 AM

RE:  Skipper7 post on 12/23/05

Here is a link to this compelling video:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8260059923762628848

Worth 82 minutes to see this.

The onus is now on others to answer some very sensible questions raised by this work.

Posted by nyvegan on Apr 5, 2006 at 10:03 AM

RE: skipper7 on 12/23/05

Here is a link for viewing the compelling video:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8260059923762628848

Worth 82 minutes to view it.
Now the onus is on others to answer some credible questions.

Posted by nyvegan on Apr 5, 2006 at 11:44 AM

I’ll see your Charlie Sheen and raise you a Penn & Teller:

Hot & Steamy

Posted by Natalie on Apr 19, 2006 at 8:15 PM

Penn and Teller paid tribute to a core concept of critical thinking

Posted by nyvegan on Apr 21, 2006 at 10:23 AM

P&T was funny and well done for a hit-piece, but agree full of holes.

the serious videos have occasional holes too, but their questions still unanswered;

Posted by frog on Apr 21, 2006 at 3:35 PM

Penn and Teller’s little film was certainly not meant to be any kind of detailed point by point rebuttal of “9/11 Loose Change” or “In Plane Site”. 

But it is an unabashed expression of anger at those who can’t for some reason accept the simple reality that a bunch of brainwashed murderers took advantage of a free nation’s inherent vulnerabilities.  The last segment with the balloon illustrates this quite elegantly and humorously.

They’re angry because rational people know who is responsible for the events of that day, and understand that no amount of perceived political injustice is grounds for deliberately, and with malice, murdering completely innocent people.  And they and I are angry at those who would attempt to blame the most innocent, and exonerate the truly guilty.

Anyone who considers himself a critical thinker wouldn’t dismiss mountains of direct evidence that demands that yes, indeed, a commercial airliner really did hit the pentagon.  A documentary that entertains otherwise has informed us as to the reliability of the balance of its claims.

“Aydan Kizildrgli, an English language student who is a native of Turkey, saw the jetliner bank slightly then strike a western wall of the huge five-sided building that is the headquarters of the nation’s military. ‘There was a big boom,’ he said. ‘Everybody was in shock. I turned around to the car behind me and yelled “Did you see that?” Nobody could believe it.’”
- “Bush Vows Retaliation for ‘Evil Acts’.” USA Today, 11 Sep 2001

“We were the only people, we think, who saw it live,” Dan Creed said. He and two colleagues from Oracle software were stopped in a car near the Naval Annex, next to the Pentagon, when they saw the plane dive down and level off. “It was no more than 30 feet off the ground, and it was screaming. It was just screaming. It was nothing more than a guided missile at that point,” Creed said. “I can still see the plane. I can still see it right now. It’s just the most frightening thing in the world, going full speed, going full throttle, its wheels up,” - Ahwatukee Foothill News

In Plane Site…exactly right!

Posted by Natalie on Apr 22, 2006 at 12:10 AM

RE: Natalie, Apr. 22
The “reality” of 9/11 is certainly not simple to understand, nor can (or should) we assume that the

Posted by nyvegan on Apr 23, 2006 at 4:10 PM

nyvegan
If you or I had anything to do with a genuine  pentagon strike, government-side, we’d have produced bucketfuls of labelled titanium blades, and all the rest of the evidence, and said——there you are !

The incredible Condoleeeeeza said “noone would have imagined"etc.
thats no slip of the tongue, but an outright lie, a firing offence.

Posted by frog on Apr 23, 2006 at 5:50 PM

Condi lied. “noone would have imagined…..”

and then instructions went out to tear off the covers of the FEMA etc manuals—scope-sights on WTCs on front covers.

Posted by frog on Apr 23, 2006 at 5:53 PM

<i>If a party was behind one of the events, it was almost certainly a factor in the others. If the Pentagon was hit by a missile, then the whole story about hijackers falls apart.  If the

Posted by Natalie on Apr 25, 2006 at 9:25 AM

Oh hello Natty, with the imminent collapse of the official conspiracy theory lie, Rabbit thought you would have been re-assigned by now.  Still trying to hold back the tide Rabbit sees.

Flight 93 was shot down. ! .

Actually Rabbit knew it was the happy hooligans who shot it down about two years ago, just not the name of the pilot.

Posted by Rabbit on Apr 27, 2006 at 11:35 PM

Rabbit?  What the?

BOTH those killer hurricanes George Bush directed your way missed their target? 

Just kidding, nice to hear from you, as always ....... ;-)

This shill just stopped by a while back to post some new (to me) information, that being that the perimeter columns were observed bowing inward eight minutes before collapse.  Of course the first thing that came to mind was that this was the thermite at work, but when I realized that the jet impact would certainly have dislodged it here at the impact zone, I came to suspect that maybe, just maybe, the mechanism of collapse had something to do with the effects of the fires in addition to the plane damage.  Then I remembered the previous testimony I posted about police in helicopters observing extremely hot fires just before collapse and trying to warn others that they thought collapse was imminent.

This, along with the rather coarse testimony of the structural engineers from the firm of Penn & Teller really got me to wondering.

Aside from your link about flt. 93 being two years old and providing zero proof other than taking the word of a kook money-grubbing website editor, I have agreed in the past that it is a possibility that 93 was shot down.  That does not disprove the ear-witnesssed intentions of the passengers to regain control of the plane.  Whether they or a missile or both did the job, at least this one plane was prevented from hitting its target, which was likely the Capitol building or the Whitehouse.

And now I must start my list…..

Posted by Natalie on Apr 28, 2006 at 12:59 PM

Item 1:  Operation Northwoods

“Loose Change”, (LC hereafter) tells us about a series of proposals that were allegedly presented by the military to officials in the JFK administration, some of which arguably involved deliberate acts of murder in order to justify military action against Cuba.  Presumably, this is evidence that murdering thousands on 9/11 is well within America’s propensity.

First of all, one can’t help but notice the blind willingness of the LC “skeptics” to accept that the Northwoods documents are authentic.  After listening to everyone from Alex Jones to Stephen Jones tell us that anything and everything coming from the Government is not to be trusted, why is this “revelation” treated as gospel, and not a second thought given to the possibility that the whole thing could be nothing more than disinformation or a hoax.  (such as those obviously fabricated DNA results from the pentagon victims)  If Northwoods had been legit, might it not be reasonable to suspect that liberals Macnamara and Sorenson would be eager to confirm it, so many years later, because after all it makes them look sensible for rejecting it, and it makes the “right wingers” in the military look bad.  Others have pointed out that certain language in the documents is not likely to have been written by Americans, perhaps that the insertion of the documents could be the result of some kind of foreign subterfuge.

Lemnitzer and those who served with him in 1962 as chiefs of the nation’s military branches are dead. But two former top Kennedy administration officials said yesterday that they were unaware of Operation Northwoods and questioned whether such a plan was ever drafted. “I’ve never heard of Operation Northwoods. Never heard of it and don’t believe it,” said Theodore Sorenson, Kennedy’s White House special counsel. “Obviously, it would be totally illegal as well as totally unwise.” Robert S. McNamara, Kennedy’s defense secretary, said: “I never heard of it. I can’t believe the chiefs were talking about or engaged in what I would call CIA-type operations.” Bamford writes that besides the Joint Chiefs, then-Assistant Secretary of Defense Paul H. Nitze also favored “provoking a phony war with Cuba.” “There may be a piece of paper” on Northwoods, said McNamara. “I just cannot conceive of [Nitze] approving anything like that or doing it without talking to me.”

Be this as it may, I actually tend to suspect that the Northwoods proposals are likely authentic.  But even if so, they are pretty small potatoes compared to the accusations about 9/11.  Start some riots, down a “drone”, maybe kill some Cubans, maybe not.  And, if legit, it would be evidence that the U.S. Government is not prone to approving wild schemes, and that wild schemes are not executed without approval.  Even though the presence of a Soviet friend so close to the U.S. was an extremely dangerous threat, as evidenced by the subsequent Cuban Missile Crisis, the U.S. chose not to deceive the American and Cuban people.  I wonder, again assuming legitimacy, if perhaps Kennedy wished he had approved it, while in the midst of the crisis.

Regardless, including “Northwoods” in LC unwittingly makes the case that America does not go around carelessly engaging in deceptive murderous schemes, even if they might have thought about it, and even if it might have actually been well advised in this case.  If history had resulted in there being a permanent nuclear threat 90 miles from shore, I have a feeling that a vast majority of Americans would have approved in retrospect of a few innocent deaths, thereby justifying the invasion that would have prevented the fictional permanent Soviet missile presence.

With Northwoods, we’re talking about a peppering of deaths, at worst.  Our suspected bomb planters had to know that the potential was there for many tens of thousands of innocent deaths.

Posted by Natalie on Apr 28, 2006 at 1:18 PM

Ah yes but Natalie the impossibility of the cell phone calls getting through from the height of flight 93 does render that part of the story to deception.

Like I said you should by now be redumdant.  Have you not been keeping up with the recent devolments?  There are a whole bunch more engineers and scientists and world leaders and media personalities swelling the ranks of those who know the official story is a lie.

Oh well, guess Rabbit will just have to bring you up to date.  Later.

As for thsoe Cyclones, to be honest dearm Rabbit is a NOrthwester and has been through plenty of cyclones before.  As a matter of fact the whole thing is being beat up a bit. We usually get three or four good Cyclones of these sort of strengths every wet season.  The difference is only the world media.  Notice how we just deal with it though?  Not such a backwards colony that a single storms loses us a city I guess.

Posted by Rabbit on Apr 28, 2006 at 8:08 PM

The gaining of traction of the truth.

Let’s look at what we now know about what brought the buildings down.

See the naughty monkeys doing it.  Dirty murdering traitors.

Only Thermite could do this. The slag on both sides of the cut is similar, definately not OXY Acetylene cut.

So how were those 911 Cel calls made?

How refreshing to dump all these facts which prove the falseness of the official lie upon a Batty Nat.  Not opinions pet, just facts. Mostly not answers either, just big unanswerable questions, at least via the official lie.

Posted by Rabbit on Apr 29, 2006 at 2:02 AM

Batty Natty, what the hell kind of garbage have you now sunk to spreading? Operation Northwoods is a myth is it deary?

Try the National Security Archives  Goose.

You really are still playing with a short deck aren’t you.

Posted by Rabbit on Apr 29, 2006 at 2:08 AM

A peppering of deaths is a completely different proposition I see now to you. It’s OK if the government kills off a few dozen people, (What is a peppering of deaths dear), but that doesn’t mean they would kill off a few thousand, is that your point sweetheart?

Well we traditionally use the FACT of Operation Northwoods to answer dildos like you who claim the US government would not kill ANY of it’s citizens in false terror attacks, and the scale doesn’t really change that fact for those of us who still maintain a real humanity and not just some fake pretence and hollow slogans.

You have not become any more charming in Rabit’s absence, you are still the banality of evil, the apologist for death and destruction.  You do realise that Depleted Uranium is well and truly out of the bag now too don’t you?

You really may have to find a new cause soon, as both your babies are going to ground in the foreseeable future.  Perhaps you could become an advocate for killing whales or baby seals? 

Not up to your usual penchant for genocidal weapons of mass destruction, but one of these days you just might find your causes have been lost and left you behind.  Like Golum in Lord of the Rings, you will be reduced to a snivelling, vicious and paranoid monster, waiting to pounce and suck the life out of unwary travellers.

Posted by Rabbit on Apr 29, 2006 at 2:17 AM

Go on this journey, all those who seek the truth 

The Pentagon story is definately one of the most mysterious.  This is one article which caught the beady rabbit eye a little while ago.

Posted by Rabbit on Apr 29, 2006 at 2:29 AM

.. NATTY WROTE—-including “Northwoods” in LC unwittingly makes the case that America does not go around carelessly engaging in deceptive murderous schemes, even if they might have thought about it, and even if it might have actually been well advised in this case.

This ‘unwittingly makes’  no case whatsoever !

My cat left a bit of mouse in front of the door. She ate one mouse. This unwittingly makes the case that she does not regularly do so !

One Plan rejected by the White House now proves that similar plans have not been approved and executed ?

Similar Plans have been carried out, sometimes without Presidential approval ?

Operation Gladio was not about missles 60miles from the US, but killing civilians in false flag operations to discredit the ‘left’ parties in Europe.

Iran Contra was not falseflag,  certainly, but was confusion of terrorists as freedom fighters by the Actor ?

Posted by frog on Apr 29, 2006 at 2:59 AM

Especially for Nat.

The latest on the Depleted Uranium Weapons, Natalie’s first and greatest love..

How can you live with yourself?  Is your denial really that impervious?

Posted by Rabbit on Apr 29, 2006 at 3:08 AM

“Ah yes but Natalie the impossibility of the cell phone calls getting through from the height of flight 93 does render that part of the story to deception.”

Rabbit, why is the idea that Islamic terrorists were foiled by ordinary Americans so distasteful to you?  Is it because you so wanted to see the Whitehouse destroyed?  Is it because it undermines your theory that there were no hijackers to begin with?  After all, if one admits that the hijackers existed, then it becomes necessary to convince people of the even zanier notion that our government worked in concert with these goons to carry out their crash/fire/bomb plot.  They are so inconvenient, aren’t they?

1)  Cell phone calls can be made occasionally from airliners, sometimes even at cruising altitude.

2)  There were several accounts of conversations between passengers and loved ones, and/or between passengers and airphone or 9/11 operators.  Some perhaps from cell phones, probably most from airphones.  The reporting on this aspect has routinely confused cell or mobile phone calls with airphone calls.

3)  I’ve seen these people (that received the calls) interviewed.  They are totally and completely credible.  To think that all of them are part of some grand conspiracy is ridiculous.  To suspect that they were all fooled by planted calls is also ridiculous, because some of the callers weren’t even originally scheduled to be on the ill-fated flights until the last minute.  How would anyone know that these changes took place and be able to instantly change their calling plans? 

Again, I don’t dispute the possibility that 93 was shot down, even though there is no concrete evidence for it.  Yeah, there was some debris found, but the reasons for it could be several.  Conversely, there is solid direct evidence that the passengers were, at the very least, part of what brought the flight down. 

<i>“Like I said you should by now be redumdant.

Posted by Natalie on Apr 30, 2006 at 7:38 PM

<i>“Well we traditionally use the FACT of Operation Northwoods to answer dildos like you who claim the US government would not kill ANY of it

Posted by Natalie on Apr 30, 2006 at 7:59 PM

There’s a definite parallel between the collapse of the WTC buildings, and depleted uranium.

There has not been a shred of credible peer-reviewed evidence presented to back up wild claims such as thermite induced collapse or gruesome birth defects in Afgan children.  Or any children for that matter.  Sorry…..a bunch of un-sourced, undocumented likely doctored pics on Rense.com just doesn’t pass muster.

Nothing but nonsensical, unsupported rumor-based psuedo-scientific gossip, which is all rooted around the need to deny the threat of Islamic terrorism, and thereby the need to respond to it in any kind of forceful way.

Posted by Natalie on Apr 30, 2006 at 8:21 PM

Natalie the idea which is so distasteful to me is that ordinary Americans or indeed any people would be set up, murdered in a framed up attack and then lied to about it so their country could be turned into a global nightmare.

What is incredible is that anybody still remains clinging to the long since discredited pffoical pile of codswallop.  Your stupid conspiracy theory was never a contender, which is why even in America you belong now to a small minority.

Posted by Rabbit on Apr 30, 2006 at 10:32 PM

The DU evidence is well and truly on the table, you beast. The photos above linked and the acompanying report are evidence in themselvs. Anyway that is becoming a mainstream issue at last and the outrage worldwide as wel as in the USA is growing.  The horror of DU was always too big to keep secret longer than it took for the first symptoms to show, about three to five years.

A few recent articles, note your nemeses, the good Dr Leuren Moret and Doug Rokke are going from strength to strength.

Death sentence

<i>Terry Jemison of the Department of Veterans Affairs reported this week to the American Free Press that

Posted by Rabbit on May 1, 2006 at 12:21 AM

Seems like when you say there is no evidence or studies what you actually mean is there are none which you care to recognise.  Eventually Karma will catch up with you my dear, ask not for whom the bell tolls.
More of the sort of support you personally are giving the troops.

<i>Not only were soldiers exposed to DU on and off the battlefields, but they brought it home. DU in the semen of soldiers internally contaminated their wives, partners and girlfriends. Tragically, some women in their 20s and 30s who were sexual partners of exposed soldiers developed endometriosis and were forced to have hysterectomies because of health problems.

In a group of 251 soldiers from a study group in Mississippi who had all had normal babies before the Gulf War, 67 percent of their post-war babies were born with severe birth defects. They were born with missing legs, arms, organs or eyes or had immune system and blood diseases. In some veterans

Posted by Rabbit on May 1, 2006 at 12:29 AM

Item 2:  Remotely controlled Boeing 720 was used for crash/fuel research in late 1984.

I guess this is suppose to butter us up to the possibility that jets were flown by remote control into their targets on 9/11.  Well, I suppose this is pretty good proof that remote control operation would have theoretically been possible; however, the practicality of this being used on 9/11 to hit relatively small targets is questionable.

Not to mention all the other evidence that there were indeed hijackers on board controlling the situation and not computers.  Communications from passengers describing the situation, the voice of the hijackers mistakenly transmitted to controllers, etc.

I noticed some pretty sloppy journalism here.  LC claims the jet had 10 takeoffs and 13 landings.  I don’t know how you can get more landings than takeoffs, but what do I know?  According to the NASA page on the event, there were 15 takeoffs and 14 landings…..just as one might expect when the final “landing” was not a landing but a crash.  A small point perhaps, but evidence yet of an apparent lack of concern for accuracy.  Or perhaps I’m missing something. 

Item 3:  Twin towers depicted as being “in the cross hairs” in gubmint training manual in 1997.

Well Duh.  If the fact that al Qaeda targeted the towers in 1993 in an attempt to topple one onto the other isn’t sufficient cause to designate the towers as a “target” of terrorism in a manual of instructions for dealing with a possible terrorist attack, then I give up.  I just should have known that the real reason for the picture was that some itchy in the know artist couldn’t help himself and let the whole future plot about 9/11/01 out of the bag.

Stupid brain.

Posted by Natalie on May 1, 2006 at 12:38 AM

Here is a list of Scholars for 911 Truth.  Among them wil be found engineers, architects, firemen, professors and politicians.

Of course they just might all be Bush haters too, that does kind of come with the territory, after all, how could anyone realise the truth and not hate the bastards who did it?

Well what about that? Natty the list is so long, that it would take about ten postings to get it all here. So here instead is a link to the list, you will find all manner of people represented, this doesn’t have to fit into any arbitrary requirements you may choose to create, it is an impressive list of intelligent and educated people.

List of Scholars for 9/11 Truth  This is only one organisation of course, though it is currently something of a flagship.  Read the roll and it is obvious why this would be.

Now could we see a similar list of supporters for the official story please?              You can include the US government, which gives you at least one name already..

Oh and BTW going back to Operation Northwoods, you talk as if the government volunteered the information, excuse me but it was uncovered by investigative reporting, despite the government attempts to coverup. Remember Oliver North dearie?  Rabbit does anyway.

Posted by Rabbit on May 1, 2006 at 12:54 AM

Rabbit has no idea what you are just now babbling on about girl, and has frankly wasted enough time on you for a day, but you just sank out of sight again as usual once your pretentious prattling posts are answered.  Now you babble on for a bit and if nobody else swats your dribble off the table Rabbit will be by, by and by to clean up any mess you make.

Do read all the lovely links Rabbit has left you, others will, then you at least know what you are contending with.  It is hard to pity you, but when you continue dribbling long after your false rhetoric has dried up due to factual refutation, is pathetic.

It must be obvious to even a dunce like you that the old line that there are no qualified people who dispute the official 911 lies, is redundant, patently false.  At the same time your favorite mantra that there is no evidence or scientific studies about the effects of DU, is complete garbage.  The proof is covered in the few posts Rabbit has made here today.  Thus you are as usual .............wrong.

Probably you’ll get sick and die from lung cancer too now, isn’t it grand to know you’ve helped bring that day about?  Lung cancer looks a hell of a lot better than the lot of those deformed babies though.

Posted by Rabbit on May 1, 2006 at 12:59 AM

“US Lung Cancer Rates soar, due to DU. See, if you wait long enough, the proof will be arriving in your own backyard.”

Funny, upon examining the transcript of the CNN show referenced by Rense, I could find no mention of any increase in lung cancer rates, and certainly not of DU.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0603/08/ltm.05.html

Do you think this might be why the Rense article failed to reference the transcript?

Perhaps I’m missing something.

Posted by Natalie on May 1, 2006 at 1:05 AM

You are as usual missing something yes. Everything which disputes your bullshit.  Read all the articles, and no cherry picking.  Why do I even bother?  The facts are there, must Rabbit quote things again?

Posted by Rabbit on May 1, 2006 at 1:09 AM

Do you not even comprehend what I’m saying to you?  Your Rense article specifically references the CNN program on March 6, and specifically says that they said things they apparently never said, according to their transcipt.  Rense doesn’t link you to the transcript.

Does this not mean anything at all to you?

Posted by Natalie on May 1, 2006 at 1:24 AM

Natalie as always your red herrings are as smelly as your overall game.  The lung cancer rates are being acurately reported, and it isn’t only on CNN.  I neither know nor care what CNN has recorded as it’s transcripts.  I have seen how even here in Oz transcripts of TV programs get edited if there is anything too controversial in there.  Though after looking yes they do mention those figures, at least the average of 177, 000 as being normal.  People who I trust more than them claim it was said there and I choose to believe them.  The point is not whether or not CNN aired it, but whether or not it is true. Nobody said by the way that CNN mentioned DU, that is another of Natty’s smelly red fish.  It was pointed out they tried to spin it as second hand tobacco smoke which is roundly refuted.

Anyway even if half the reports of DU were bogus, it wouldn’t change the other half.

Depleted Uranium Links.

Do the actual facts, irrespective of who reports them not matter to you? It is you who is being ignorant, as always.

Posted by Rabbit on May 1, 2006 at 1:51 AM

Nor was it specifically a Rense article, as I’ve told you before foolish one, Rense is just a nexus, they report, you decide.  Ironically enough. 

Why do you not mention the other link anyway, it appears to be independent of the hoopla surrounding the article by Karl W B Schwarz, of Nano-technologies, which you deceptively identify as a Rense article as if such things are common.  Rip Rense is actually not that prolific, and to my knowledge Karl is not a Rense staff writer.

As always Rabbit must beat out the truth in morse code on your head for you to face it which means only that you duck and dive for new cover.  More smelly fish to hide your trail, of deciet.

<u>LUNG CANCER EPIDEMIC FROM DU HAS BEGUN IN U.S.</u>

By Dr. James Howenstine, MD.
April 6, 2006

In the year 2005 there were 175,000 new cases of lung cancer in the United States. The months of January and February of 2006 have already yielded 172,000 new cases of lung cancer in our nation. What has lead to this shocking new development?

Posted by Rabbit on May 1, 2006 at 2:05 AM

“List of Scholars for 9/11 Truth This is only one organisation of course, though it is currently something of a flagship.  Read the roll and it is obvious why this would be.

Now could we see a similar list of supporters for the official story please?  You can include the US government, which gives you at least one name already..”

This is what a list of “scholars” should look like.  Notice the ability to click on a persons name and get a complete bio, including type and origin of college degrees, and work experience.

Posted by Natalie on May 1, 2006 at 2:08 AM

According to the CDC, lung cancer incidence and death have been steadily falling for males, and have been leveling off for females for quite some time now.

They claim the latest year that statistics are available is 2002.  I wonder how Dr. James comes about his statistics.  He doesn’t say.  Does it not strike you as a little outlandish that they would increase that much?  This trend would amount to somthing like a 600 percent increase by the end of the year.  And all that DU got over here how?  I don’t see a big spike after the Gulf War.  Why not?  It only takes a couple years for the cancer to show up, right?  Unlike Northwoods, these charts are probably faked.

Posted by Natalie on May 1, 2006 at 2:27 AM

“Do the actual facts, irrespective of who reports them not matter to you? It is you who is being ignorant, as always.”

You’ve helped to demonstrate, Rabbit, by hightlighting Rense, that it certainly does matter who reports “facts”.  I’ve repeatedly demonstrated how articles that appear on Rense routinely ignore, manipulate, or exclude facts.

The CNN thing is just the latest example.

There was the story about one of the 9/11 flights supposedly landing in Cleveland that had deliberately twisted information from a local tv station.

There was the thing about the Windsor tower fire, where we were told that it had similar construction to the twin towers.

There was the deliberate manipulation of the quote by Bill Manning.

I am interested in the actual facts regarding lung cancer rates.  Can you point me to a source that is credible?  Somehow I think a 600% increase would garner some pretty spectacular news coverage.

Don’t you?

Posted by Natalie on May 1, 2006 at 10:03 AM

Natalie, Nat the slimy sleazy stinky strumpetty BAT!

Rabbit has repeatedly pointed out to you that Rense contains 95% of reports from mainstream news, and doesn’t write independent articles as far as anything Rabbit would post as a source for you, deceitful Vampire.

As for this hilarious little fart;

This is what a list of “scholars” should look like.  Notice the ability to click on a persons name and get a complete bio, including type and origin of college degrees, and work experience. ,............^^...............yes dear, all thirteen of them.

and the link which it includes; thankyou for clearly illustrating the poverty of the case against the list of eminent people who have stood for the opposing case.  That of questioning the official crap story.

Get a grip Natalie.

You just gave us a list of seventeen people, (with a generous counting) who support the official garbage, the overall qualifications of whom are lower on a mean than those who have opposed it in writing via Scholars for 9/11 Truth.

Rabbit has not stopped to count the number of Scholars, but he gave up trying to post the list since it was going to take ten separate postings of this space limited, less than six thousand characters, site.

As for the format of the listings, what the fuck has that got to do with anything you foolish creature of the darkness? 

If you doubt the existence of any of the list go look it up Natty. 

Your denial doesn’t actually have any bearing on reality.  History is full of people and their sycophants who denied the truth of their own reality until it all came crashing down. You are no anomaly, traditionally you comprise about one third of the population, and that, interestingly enough is about the exact percentage support your viewpoints still hold in the failed state of the USA.  about 32% support these days, for those who DO take notice of polls?

The final “Backwash” portion as Mr Colbert would put it. 

You are of no more consequence than that your denial and subsequent confusion will place you in the best position to absorb the worst of the impact of whatever hell is fast approaching our world.  You are nothing more than a bunch of stupid woolly animals who may offer some buffer zone for a few crucial moments, long enough for the poeple that matter to live another day.

Rabbit bids you adieu foolish reptilian crossling.

Posted by Rabbit on May 3, 2006 at 12:55 AM

Rabbit can hop back .................on the rebound so to speak…........... it is after all what helps make him Rabbit.

The following small bundle of crap, presented by the Bat, shows clearly what a dirth of real solid evidence it possesses. 

<blockquote>There was the story about one of the 9/11 flights supposedly landing in Cleveland that had deliberately twisted information from a local tv station.

There was the thing about the Windsor tower fire, where we were told that it had similar construction to the twin towers.

There was the deliberate manipulation of the quote by Bill Manning.

I am interested in the actual facts regarding lung cancer rates.  Can you point me to a source that is credible?  Somehow I think a 600% increase would garner some pretty spectacular news coverage.

Don

Posted by Rabbit on May 3, 2006 at 1:14 AM

DU

Posted by frog on May 3, 2006 at 5:15 PM

<i>“The Uranium Medical Research Centre (UMRC) is one organization that has effectively used the Internet (through media stories and list serves) to raise funds and spin myths about DU.  UMRC has successfully exploited scientific uncertainty and government negligence to promote its goals, which seem to be a mixture of ideology, publicity, and fundraising.  UMRC

Posted by Natalie on May 4, 2006 at 1:20 AM

Interesting article Natalie, though your conclusion seems to be somewhat less than admitting to the thrust of fahey’s own concerns:

As I unearthed pieces to the puzzle with information obtained through
the Freedom of Information Act and from credible activists working with the Military
Toxics Project and National Gulf War Resource Center, I helped to demonstrate the
pattern of lies and deception about DU propagated by the Department of Defense and
Department of Veterans Affairs. My first written statement, presented in November 1995
to an advisory committee to President Clinton, articulated the message I have been
promoting ever since: “Depleted Uranium: Objective Research and Analysis Needed”.

Do you agree with Fahey, or is it your position that all the questions about DU have been satisfactorily answered?

As to Fahey’s argument dismissing the speculations of the ‘far left’, he makes a common error of reasoning, to which you have demonstrated a very strong susceptiblity, that speculation from circumstantial evidence should be summarily dismissed merely because it doesn’t rise to the unattainable standard of absolute proof.

For example, Fahey writes:

Activists
frequently advance claims that large quantities of DU are used in conventional bunker
busting munitions, fuel air explosives, and cluster bombs,23 but these activists offer no
convincing supporting evidence to back up their assertions.

Contrary to what Fahey asserts,the primary source that he cites second hand doesn’t make any truth claims, but speculates with conditional language on what might be true using available information from reliable sources and eye witness accounts:

Posted by luminous beauty on May 4, 2006 at 8:56 AM

Significantly more uranium than in DU bullets would be used in weapons developed under a Hard or Deeply Buried Target Defeat Capability (HDBTDC) programme launched by the US military in the mid 1990s [www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/smart/hdbtdc.htm]. The weapons must be able to penetrate targets in hardened buildings, or underground. This can be accomplished with a high density penetrating warheads with smart fuses that delay detonation until the weapon is in the desired space, for example, on the lowest level of a multi-level concrete building. The weapons also need to neutralize chemical and biological agents before they escape into the environment, by using incendiary warheads.

Owing to its density, uranium “ depleted or not “ can double the penetration power relative to older weapons. Currently, over 20 weapon systems against hard and buried targets, stocked for imminent “wars on terror”, are most likely made of uranium. New versions are under development and testing. The biggest of them, Big BLU, contains several tons of a “dense metal” in the penetrator alone. The mysterious metal must be uranium, since as dense and harder tungsten would be prohibitively expensive, less workable and not readily ignitable. Dr. Asaf Durakovic measured very significantly higher levels of uranium in Afghanis near targets hit by penetrating bombs and missiles. His team noticed the weapons punched through several concrete floors and walls, then buried 3 to 4 meters in the earth before exploding. [www.umrc.net]. Were they used in foreseeable war scenarios, the weapons would produce contamination levels significantly higher than from DU bullets in the Gulf War.

For its pyrophoric properties, i.e. spontaneous burning in air when in fine form (swarfs, metallic dust), uranium in an incendiary warhead could be effective in neutralizing biological or chemical weapons facilities hidden underground or in concrete structures. Powdered uranium could be the incendiary agent in the last stage of a warhead in a penetrating weapon cased or ballasted with uranium. The incendiary warhead would add its mass to the weapon’s penetrating impact.

The shaped charge technology also employs uranium. By focusing explosives in one direction e.g. by containing them with a conical or concave hemisphere metal liner, detonation compresses and squeezes the liner forward, forming a jet of molten metal traveling as fast as 10 km/s. Jane’s website indicated some time ago that DU was used as “liners in shaped charge warheads”. Guided weapons ranging from Maverick and Hellfire missiles to torpedoes, sub-munitions in cluster bombs and the first stage of BROACH MWS warheads use this technology. At his website Williams provides an in-depth, up-to-date review of both the HDBTDC and shaped charge weaponry.

Fahey makes many unsubstantiated assertions of his own when claiming the unreliability of reporters on no more grounds than the assertion that they are activists, that they have political bias,  and the ever popular post hoc ergo propter hoc guilt by association because unaffiliated groups use their speculations for propaganda purposes.  Another favorite fallacy of yours, Nat. 

Do the speculations of anti-DU advocates tend to the extremes of extrapolation?  In some cases, undoubtedly, though not necessarily outside of the realms of possibility.  In other cases, as in the explosion of otherwise inexplicable birth defects and cancers among Afghanis, Iraqis and US military personnel, perhaps not extreme enough.  However, without increased transparency and accountability, we’ll never know the truth.  Do you not agree?

Posted by luminous beauty on May 4, 2006 at 8:57 AM

“Do the speculations of anti-DU advocates tend to the extremes of extrapolation?  In some cases, undoubtedly.  In other cases, as in the explosion of otherwise inexplicable birth defects among Afghanis, Iraqis and US military personnel, perhaps not extreme enough.  However, without increased tranparency and accountability, we’ll never know the truth, will we?  Do you not agree?”

The point is, Luminous, that no credible evidence or commonly accepted scientific studies are ever provided to back up wild claims such as “exploding birth defects among Afghanis, Iraqis, and U.S. military personnel.”  Rabbit’s Rense page of horrors is a good example.  Just a bunch of pictures….absolutely no proof whatsoever.

Contrarily, there have been numerous studies by numerous organizations that do employ peer-reviewable scientific methods that have concluded that the danger from DU is not zero, but is hardly anywhere near the scale some would like you to believe. 

From reading and analyzing the quality of the arguments coming from both sides for some time, my current position reflects that of the above paragraph.  I believe we should make policy based on properly conducted analysis, not on anti-war emotion, which seems to saturate the anti-DU argument.  I am certainly not above admitting being wrong on this, and welcome the increased testing and “accountability” that has been recently demanded by various states, which has ironically, as the article says, been prompted by such emotion.

My belief is that the results of these tests will be consistent with all the other studies.  The danger is that due to the emotional club being constantly swung on the other side, any conclusions reached that don’t agree with their apocalyptic views will not be accepted.

Posted by Natalie on May 4, 2006 at 9:38 AM

Natalie,

You say, “Just a bunch of pictures….absolutely no proof whatsoever”

Do you think those pictures and others from Iraq and reliable reports of increased birth defects among US military are not evidence? 

Proof only proceeds from rigorous investigation of the evidence. 

Do you doubt that such investigations have been stymied by the DOD as documented in the Fahey report which you yourself cite? 

Do you think such intransigence can be overcome by attacking, denigrating and dismissing off-hand those who call for such investigations? 

Do you deny that the calls for studies in the states that you now say you are willing to allow to go forward would have ever come about without the efforts of the very activists you have previously dismissed with hand-waving about ‘exaggerated claims’ and ‘political bias’? 

I’m glad you admit to the possibility of being shown wrong in the future.  It is truly refreshing.  Your belief, however, amounts to nothing but Panglossian optimism with a strong dose of denial.  It would be more credible if you admitted to the possibility of having been wrong in the past.

Posted by luminous beauty on May 4, 2006 at 10:20 AM

NATTY
On page 20 Dan Fahey recounts how he proved that the DOD were lying, his words, , from their own sources.

In 2006 they are still at it.  stars and stripes diane stearns northern arizona university

Fahey also admits that “comprehensive studies of exposed veterans and civilians do not appear likely to take place”.

If you don’t “look”..........................,  you won’t fucking “find” ! !

Natty, your ‘numerous studies’ have not yet included one that is approaching conclusive or even a serious attempt, epidemiologically, because that would take money and time, which have not been allocated.

John Pilger, the STAR OZ reporter, interviewed many Iraqi doctors in the 90’s, who were not propagandists for saddam , just, you know,  ‘doctors’—those people in white coats with stethoscopes—-,  facing an unprecedented explosion in malformed babies.

PS
Natty, you may have heard of the Downing Street Memos ? Mick Smith who exposed them and I have both seen at first hand, and discussed,  the UK MoD doing exactly this sort of cover-up defensive PR job. He writes for the london Times, and is not actually an anarchist…..

MoD, DOD, VA, same lying animals on both sides of the Atlantic.

PPS
Nice to see you Luminous One.

Posted by frog on May 4, 2006 at 1:31 PM

Hello everyone,

Frog, thanks for the link to the ICH article. I had already read it at Global Research but it was very interesting to read the comments in the discussion forum at the depleted uranium article at ICH because of who was there doing the discussing.

I found an old friend, and I use that term very loosely.

Our dear friend Ramjet, also known as Roger Helbig, also known as Lt. Col. Roger Helbig USAF (ret) was there up to his old tricks telling everyone how great depleted uranium is.

The last time I encountered Roger was on the depleted uranium discussion here on ITT many months ago and that’s where I met Natalie too.

Do you remember Roger, Natalie?

Posted by David in Canada on May 4, 2006 at 4:33 PM

Frog wrote:

<i>“John Pilger, the STAR OZ reporter, interviewed many Iraqi doctors in the 90

Posted by Natalie on May 5, 2006 at 12:24 AM

howdy all! frog, David, Rabbit.

The Bat is back!

” Depleted Uranium is simply not capable of producing an ‘unprecedented explosion in malformed babies’ “.

I can only assume this is meant in the same sarcastic tone as the rest of your post, Nat.

Teratogenicity of depleted uranium aerosols: A review from an epidemiological perspective

Reproductive and developmental toxicity of natural and depleted uranium: a review.

Pregnancy Outcomes Among U.S. Gulf War Veterans: A Population-Based Survey of 30,000 Veterans

Miscarriage, stillbirth and congenital malformation in the offspring of UK veterans of the first Gulf war

Just the tip of the epidemiological iceberg.

Looks like the long hairy arm of Saddam reaches deep into the US-Anglo medical research establishment.

Posted by luminous beauty on May 5, 2006 at 6:33 AM

Hi Luminous Beauty,

Thanks for the great links.

Natalie,

Does the evidence that Luminous Beauty provided by those links qualify as commonly accepted scientific studies and does that evidence begin to back up wild claims ???

You say that the danger from DU is not zero, but is hardly anywhere near the scale some would like you to believe.

Dangerous, but not too dangerous?

Radioactive and toxic nuclear waste seems to be dangerous enough that the EPA considers it a hazard and has regulations galore for disposing (storing) of it. Nobody seems to want a nuclear waste storage facility in their backyards. I wonder why? Could it be the stuff is toxic and very dangerous?

But it would seem that if the warmongers turn some of that nuclear waste into bombs then the regulations are convienently forgotten and ignored.

Depleted uranium munitions have turned Afghanistan and Iraq into toxic dumps and sickened and killed many innocent people.

I pray for the day when those responsible for using these weapons in the commission of war crimes will be brought to justice.

Posted by David in Canada on May 5, 2006 at 10:14 AM

Yes, very good, quality information, Luminous.  Credible.

Take notice, everyone.

That’s what I’m talkin’ bout.

I only have time for a short note, and wll analyze the info in greater depth later.

Posted by Natalie on May 5, 2006 at 10:31 AM

Hi Lume, Hi Froggy, Hi Dave, wow, Roger Ramjet, still alive and kicking and calling for his mama, (his googoo) Depleted Uranium.

Actually the rabbit has long since drifted the interesting hypothesis that Natalie is Natalie Helbig, and this could explain their mutual need for the most horrible of genocidal weapons on the planet. Some sort of Unnatural father daughter relationship.  Helbig the mediocrity is actually ex Pentagon as it happens too, Frog. He is retired, after a very mediocre desk jockey career.  Now he concentrates on ensuring that American Servicemen and women will be exposed to depleted uranium without interruption when they are sent off to do the bidding of the War Whores in the Pentagon.

Notice the actual person Natalie Helbig is ideally placed to be a paid shill.  Nat the Bat has incredibly never let slip even the most mundane detail about who she is, just like a shill.  She has never actually seriously disputed the rabbit’s suggested ID either and this would at least be an easy one to prove is wrong, were it so, as we all know, yet she relies on no more that her usual grobble to deny it.

Natty has been crushed by the comments and links provided by the rest of you, so Rabbit shall head off for ICH.  He craves the blood of a certain Pentagon Shill!

By the way Nat, a picture tells a thousand words.  The pictures are real, the studies and evidence presented by my comrades are real, the denial you are craving is reaL, BUT IT IS FADING FAST!

A number of new studies which have well and truly shown DU to be a real disaster unfolding across Europe, the Middle East and the USA, where it has been extensively tested, are going public even as we fence, if the grovelling slipping sliding in the mud you do could be called fencing.

Posted by Rabbit on May 5, 2006 at 7:36 PM

Nat has just grown wings as she does and will now if history dictates, dissapear for a while since she has been wacked out of kilter with too much truth.  As usual the fascinating part where she claims interest is noted, and as always at such moments of truth, the caveat that “She is just too busy right now to confirm it is anything of note” but that she will be “BACK REAL SOON TO GIVE AN OPINION”  Yeh sure!  She will be back sooner or later, ignoring and whoring for lies like always.
She will return in a few days or weeks,  ignoring the sources after all, or she will be back only after a miraculous “new” supporter leaps in, Roger Ramjet for example?  Get the old man back onto ITT, for us, go on Natty.  Tell Daddy, the Rabbit ate his flowers.  Tell him Rabbit shits in his eye.

Depleted Uranium

Just something more we are imagining maybe?

Dr. Jawad Al-Ali (55), director of the Oncology Center at the largest hospital in Basra, Iraq stated, at a recent ( 2003) conference in Japan:

“Two strange phenomena have come about in Basra which I have never seen before. The first is double and triple cancers in one patient. For example, leukemia and cancer of the stomach. We had one patient with 2 cancers - one in his stomach and kidney. Months later, primary cancer was developing in his other kidney—he had three different cancer types. The second is the clustering of cancer in families. We have 58 families here with more than one person affected by cancer. Dr Yasin, a general Surgeon here has two uncles, a sister and cousin affected with cancer. Dr Mazen, another specialist, has six family members suffering from cancer. My wife has nine members of her family with cancer”.

“Children in particular are susceptible to DU poisoning. They have a much higher absorption rate as their blood is being used to build and nourish their bones and they have a lot of soft tissues. Bone cancer and leukemia used to be diseases affecting them the most, however, cancer of the lymph system which can develop anywhere on the body, and has rarely been seen before the age of 12 is now also common.”,

“We were accused of spreading propaganda for Saddam before the war. When I have gone to do talks I have had people accuse me of being pro-Saddam. Sometimes I feel afraid to even talk. Regime people have been stealing my data and calling it their own, and using it for their own agendas. The Kuwaitis banned me from entering Kuwait - we were accused of being Saddam supporters.”

Note the date of that quote above, it was no accident, the issue is not new.
Natalie is the winged harbinger of Genocide, the Vampire Vermin.

Posted by Rabbit on May 5, 2006 at 7:54 PM

Actually the rabbit has long since drifted the interesting hypothesis that Natalie is Natalie Helbig, and this could explain their mutual need for the most horrible of genocidal weapons on the planet. Some sort of Unnatural father daughter relationship.

With a job like this, I must make pretty good money.  I must have a nice car.  I’m gonna check my driveway.

Posted by Natalie on May 7, 2006 at 4:00 PM

The first study linked above by luminous beauty is called “Teratogenicity of depleted uranium aerosols: A review from an epidemiological perspective”, by Rita Hindin, et al. 

This presentation is head and shoulders above say, a Rense page of horrors or an ICH litany of recycled unverifiable hyperbole.  It appears to be basically a report on a lot of other reports, and not strictly a research paper done by an expert in the field.  Which is fine, except that I got the impression that the author(s) want DU to be the culprit a little too much.  They ignore many factors that would tend to steer one away from even the tentative, cautious conclusions they draw.  Their main error is that of omission, IMHO.

Non-the-less, the report is forthcoming when it admits that studies from Iraq are puzzling.  (could that be because they are hopelessly contaminated, unreliable, politicized and unverifiable?)  It also admits that at worst, Iraqi defect rates are still better than in the U.S.  (so hardly the epidemic often portrayed)  It lists other possible reasons for supposed increases, but suspiciously does not quantify or put in perspective the unspeakable massive abuses committed by Saddam Hussein against southern Iraqis, and their potential teratogenicity.

Rita says:

<i>The data are enigmatic for several reasons. There are jarring differences between the reported data and what would be expected based on malformation registries in the West. The most striking are:

i) The very low incidence of malformations reported pre-war. While the data indicate dramatic increases in incidence of malformations since the 1991 war, they start from such a low level in 1990, pre-war, that they often only reach the baseline Western levels by 1999 - 2000.  Does the low Iraqi baseline reflect a truly lesser incidence of birth defects in Iraq at that time as compared to the West

Posted by Natalie on May 9, 2006 at 9:24 PM

pg. 2

There’s no mention of Saddam’s chemical warfare/genocidal activity both pre and post war, anywhere in the report, which would be a far more likely explanation than DU for a variety of maladies in heaven knows how many places in Iraq.  (captured Iraqi documentation is currently being translated that may shed light on specific areas that were targeted, and when.)  And there is no mention of the possibility that disbursement of Sadddam’s chemical/biological/radiological agents (due to U.S. bombardment) could be a factor. 

“On the first day of my visit to the labor and gynecological ward in the hospital, there were no women in normal labor and no one had recently delivered a normal baby. Three women had just miscarried. The staff in the labor ward told of the very large proportion of pregnancies in which there were major malformations. In addition to fetal losses and perinatal deaths, there is also a very large number of infant deaths. The frequencies of these in the Halabjan women is more than four times greater than that in the neighboring city of Soulemaneya. The findings of serious congenital malformations with genetic causes occurring in children born years after the chemical attack suggest that the effects from these chemical warfare agents are transmitted to succeeding generations.”

Back to Rita’s report…

For the Iraqi population the 1991 Gulf War was the prelude to various new exposures and circumstances that could be teratogenic—- sanctions-induced deprivations such as poverty, malnutrition and degradation of the health care infrastructure. But such circumstances, without specific chemical or radiologic exposures, do not lead to the observed pattern of increasing rates for classes of congenital malformations, notwithstanding the fact that malnutrition does contribute to certain birth defects…..

Again, the true horrific scope of the devastation visited upon southern Iraqis is ignored.  “Various new exposures and circumstances”?  Gosh, does Rita have a soft spot for suave Saddam?  It is assumed, I guess, that nothing Saddam employed to reduce the population of the Marsh Arabs, for instance, from 250,000 to 40,000 could have involved the use of any “teratogenic” agents.  Or did it?

Populations of towns in northern Iraq, especially the town of Halabja, represent the largest civilian populations ever exposed to chemical and biological weapons. 250 population centers and 31 uninhabited strategic areas are known to have been attacked by Iraqi forces from April 1987 to August 1988.  In addition to chemical weapons use, for which there is forensic evidence, the Iraqi regime may also have used weaponized biological and radiological agents during the attacks. The population of northern Iraq is 4 million, and initial estimates suggest that as many as 250,000 people may have been exposed at some level.  Saddam’s regime also used chemical weapons against Shi’ites and marsh Arabs in southern Iraq following the Gulf War.  Additionally, an estimated 100,000 Iranian soldiers also survived Iraqi chemical attacks during the Iran-Iraq War.

Of all the atrocities committed with weapons of mass destruction, none proved more horrific than the attack on Halabja, which took place over three days in March 1988. Halabja was bombarded with a concoction of chemical weapons which included mustard gas, and the nerve gases sarin, tabun and VX.  Five to seven thousand people of 80,000 inhabitants died immediately and a further 20,000 to 30,000 were injured, many severely.  Initial studies indicate approximately 52% of current inhabitants were exposed at the time of the attack.

cont…..

Posted by Natalie on May 9, 2006 at 9:25 PM

pg. 3

While these weapons had many terrible direct effects such as immediate death, or skin and eye burns, Iraqi government documents indicate they were used deliberately for known long-term effects, including cancers, birth defects, neurological problems and infertility.  Inexpensive in terms of death per unit cost, there is evidence that these weapons were used in different combinations by Ba’ath forces attempting to discern their effectiveness as weapons of terror and war.  It is believed that the Iraqi arsenal included at least a dozen chemical and biological agents, including those mentioned above, and others such as anthrax, hemorrhagic conjunctivitis virus and rotavirus (causes gastroenteritis and diarrhea in infants and children).

In December 1995, the UN Secretary General, reporting UNSCOM’s findings to the Security Council, documented the weaponization of irradiated zirconium in 1000-pound bombs, which had been test dropped in patterns calculated to deliver 2 curies of radiation over an area of one square kilometer.  While thus appearing to deliver conventional munitions, the radiation delivered can sterilize as much as 30% of those exposed and causes birth defects and cancers.  Irradiated zirconium’s short half-life enabled reentry into attack sites after two to three months, when no traces of radiation would be found.

Perhaps the most telling paragraph in Rita’s report is this one:

Sunny Miller, executive director of Traprock Peace Center of Deerfield, MA hosted a presentation by Damacio Lopez (director of IDUST, International Depleted Uranium Study Team) which Rita Hindin attended and that eventually led to the writing of this paper. Our appreciation. Thanks to Len Dietz, Dan Bishop (of IDUST) and Tom Fasy (Mt. Sinai Medical Center, NYC) for their assistance early on explicating DU toxicology, and to the Uranium Weapons Study Team (of Traprock Peace Center) for thoughtful conversations and support to explore leads and deepen understanding of DU. Thanks to the conveners and attendees of the World Uranium Weapons Conference Hamburg Germany, October 16 – 19, 2003. Of greatest importance, Rita’s attendance afforded her the opportunity to share thoughtful conversation with and learn from Iraqi researchers, Drs. Jennan Hassan, Jawad Al-Ali and Souad Al-Azzawi. We offer deep thanks, appreciation and respect for the information they shared, and for work that they and their colleagues are doing. We deeply appreciate the reporters and activists who have managed, against great odds, to report bits of information out of Iraq and who, as responsible, thoughtful citizens of many countries, assert their dignity and demand appropriate response to the challenges posed by DU aerosols….. Jaime DeLemos helped us figure out the chemistry of depleted uranium…...

This paragraph is illuminating in several ways.  First of all, we note the affection for the Traprock Peace Center and iDUST, which are both full of supremely biased anti-war “peace” activists and are fans of part-time conspiracy “missile hit the pentagon” kooks like Doug Rokke and Lauren Moret.  (Rokke has claimed that 30 of his fellow team are now dead from DU, but when pressed for proof, he quickly changes the subject.)

Rita was inspired to write this paper by attending an event sponsored by Traprock, and thanks them for “deepening my understanding” of DU.  A more biased and warped source of understanding could hardly be found.  The authors’ agenda becomes crystal clear with the sentence about “asserting their dignity and demanding appropriate response”.  I’m sorry, the little disclaimer in the report about “no competing interests” suddenly rings untrue.

cont…..

Posted by Natalie on May 9, 2006 at 9:28 PM