Postcards From the Front

Not bad Lakshmi

As for the “Heroes” who are invading a sovereign nation on orders from the sock puppet Bush on behalf of the Globalists................ glad to see a few could get a book deal out of it.

Sure though it’s lucky that the Iraqis are sub human and their feelings, freedom and honor are not as important as the American Cannon Fodder who happened to survive the actual assault and occupation.

Imagine how the stories of the Iraqis would sound in few years if they ever get to write their stories?

We are guaranteeing ourselves a major ass-kicking somewhere down the road. Count on it. We have righteously pissed off one billion Muslims, people known for their long memory and ability to patiently wait decades for vengeance.

These yahoos the yellow ribbon magnets idolize and glorify, who through their ignorance, crudeness and sadism are representing the rest of us to an increasingly nauseated world, will make certain America’s fall.

We will deserve it if for no other reasons than our apathy and silence.

Hey opeluboy,

What are you talking about?  You are saying we pissed off the Muslims .....  what !!

You might want to do a little research .... I think you will find that Muslims have attacked American interest about 17 times since the mid-70’s.  They were already pissed off, they have always hated America ... this is nothing new.  Maybe if the USA and Europe would of stood up to these stupid bastards years ago, then we wouldn’t be in this situation.

You are a perfect example of a “liberal” ... bow down to the Muslims, and then blame us ... it’s our fault. 

Having said that, you have the right to think and say what you want ... and I hope you and other liberals keep talking.  Why ??  Because the more you liberals keep talking the more it helps the GOP win elections.  Thank You !! 

PS - Make sure you get Michael Moore and the Hollywood Left involved in the next election .... that worked out well for the Dems in 04’ ... lol ... lmao ....

Amazing one can actually type such a response after walking on one’s knuckles all day.

There is some truth here, however. I would not be surprised to see the Republicans win more elections. But first they’ll need to change the laws so they can run from prison.

They will probably want to re-think that gay marriage ban as well since so many of them will be “brides”, willing or not (a small number, I suspect)

Anyway, thanks for the input Tina. Or should I say Bob? Seeing how you’re a freeper it is more than likely you are in actuality a man posing as a woman (hey, whatever gets you poor repressed Neandethals off). But here’s a word of warning: stay out of the teen chat rooms. There’s too many of you conservative Christians being busted for pedophilia already.

So, they let you out again, did they, tina1?

Guards!!!

Hey, tina, if you did your history, you’d find out just why the Muslims have attacked us.
For our interference in the Middle East, which is nothing more than an oil grab
For our backing of Saddam,
For our backing of Israel without admonishing their attrocities, there are 17 UN Security Council Resolutions against Israel for this very reason) Oh, yeah, the US doesn’t need the UN unless they’re trying to conn the public into an unjust war.
Reason enough to piss off the Muslims? No? How about starting with the CIA backing a coupe to overthrow the democratically elected government of Iran in the 50’s.
But I guess the US is just a bunch of angels, now, aren’t we?

GOP win elections? Your monkey boy is going down fast. Delay “resigned” but will still be convicted, Libby is gone, and more will fall, especially if tWit continues to illegally spy on citizens. And the conservative John Birch Society recently conducted a poll asking if bush should be impeached and removed from office. 73% said yes.
http://www.jbs.org/poll.php?vo=1

Just keep blabbing, though, ignoring the real reason they’re pissed off at us. Keep blabbing while bush continues to illegally detain and torture people, keeps treading on the Constitution and shaming his party.
Keep it up, June Cleaver. Hopefully, more Birch Society members will continue to vote yes to impeachment.

It wasn’t exactly born yesterday---this whole idea that when we wage war on other nations it is our war.  Even when we say that Iraq is like Vietnam, we’re talking about our Viet Nam.

Has it slipped anyone’s attention that whenever Viet Nam is brought up to compare with whatever this aggression is called---O.I.L.?---that the Viet Namese aren’t brought up? Even though the Viet Namese are still stepping on our landmines, and still suffering from environmental degradation, and health problems caused by Agent Orange, the people of that nation don’t seem to merit mention.

When I was a child I thought we would have learned by now.

Uh, Rabbitudinal---Sorry about the mess I left over there, pal. I guess I didn’t read your last post carefully enough.

middle east

Hope this link works. Let’s see if the National Security Archives are a den of twisted liberal thinking on the topic of the Middle East and propoganda. 

lol.

Thanks for going into specifics, AmmoniaD.

No, that didn’t work.

I’ll be right back.

archives

Okay, if you scroll down about halfway down the page on the right hand side, there is a search engine for the archives. I typed in Iran and found a lot of interesting documents about our history of propoganda campaigns in the middle east.

So those TV commercials that Bush ran before the election are true ... the commericals that said libs/dems are WEAK on security, WEAK on the military, WEAK on defending America. 

WOW ...

Your whinning about “torture” by our military.  They (terrorists) cut off peoples heads, and we kicked a Koran and put underwear on someone’s head .... and we are the bad guys.

And your crying about wiretaps on Terrorists ....

And your crying about Jose Padilla being held without charging him.  Did you see what he was caught with?  Al Quida phone numbers are on his cell phone, he was tracked to the middle east and training with Al Quida ... AND HE ADMITTED IT.  He has emails to the know Terrorists .. and he’s your HERO.

Here is a question for you liberals:  Do you have anything good to say about America? 

If you hate America so bad, why do you stay here?  Why don’t you move? 

If I hated America like you do, I would of left the USA a long time ago. 

And what is “opeyboy” talking about? dragging knuckes, chat rooms and child molestors. 

The more I see and hear you liberals, the more convinced I am that the GOP will stay in the White House in ‘08. 

I DON’T THINK THE ...  (( Anti-Military, Pro-Terrorist, Anti-Christian, Pro-Muslim, USA Sucks and It’s Always Our Fault )) PLATFORM ..... WILL WIN OVER MIDDLE AMERICA.

No, I really don’t think that’s the ticket into the White House, but I say “GO FOR IT”

And make sure Michael Moore makes another “Anti-USA” movie ... that’s a must.  Get the dust of Gore ... and put him with Dean.  Those two on stage screaming together is a must ... gotta have that.

I almost forgot, don’t forget the HOLLYWOOD MOONBATS ...

That’s a winning program ... follow that, and your in White House.

NOT !!!!

lol .... lmao ...

Ben Laden wasn’t so bad when regan backed him up against the russians, saddam was’nt so bad when we back him up against iran, iran was’nt so bad when the shaw was are buddy.
read some history and you see why the middle east hates us.
wait for the rebublicans get hammered this year with the jack abramoff scandal. Ask about tom delay’s road to the white house is turing out.
five people directly linked to the scandal so far are Republicans.
The central figure is Abramoff, who once volunteered for Ronald Reagan’s campaign, was national chairman of the College Republicans and was once described by Rep. Tom DeLay, R-Texas, as “one of my closest and dearest friends.”
The only other person to plead guilty to any charges so far is Michael Scanlon, an Abramoff partner and a former aide to DeLay, the former House Republican leader who’s been indicted in Texas on a separate charge of conspiring to evade state campaign finance laws.
A third person has been indicted: David Safavian, a former chief of staff of the General Services Administration in the Bush administration who’s accused of making false statements to investigators about his dealings with Abramoff.

And two were implicated in Abramoff’s plea bargain: Rep. Bob Ney, R-Ohio, identified as “Representative A,” and Tony Rudy, a former top aide to DeLay identified as “Staffer A.” This is a good way to win the white house but let’s blame the liberals first.

National Democratic Chairman Howard Dean deny that any Democrats took money from Jack Abramoff.But I checked it out and, guess what? Dean was right. Although both Democrats and Republicans did, in fact, receive money from Abramoff’s clients, only Republicans received personal donations from Abramoff himself.Yet some journalists, particularly in the shorthand of television news, have given a different impression, framing Abramoff’s donations as more bipartisan than they really were. So Dean was ready when veteran CNN newsman Wolf Blitzer asked him: “Should Democrats who took money from Jack Abramoff ... give that money to charity or give it back?”

“There are no Democrats who took money from Jack Abramoff,” Dean answered. “Not one. Not one single Democrat. ... There is no evidence that Jack Abramoff ever gave any Democrat any money and we’ve looked through all those FEC [Federal Election Commission] reports to make sure that’s true.”

He’s right, according to the nonpartisan Center for Responsive Politics, which keeps track of such things. Their analysis of election commission records shows that Democrats received about a third of the $4.2 million donated between 1998 and 2005 by tribes that had hired Abramoff to represent them in Washington, but none from Abramoff’s own wallet. but I am sure the neo-cons will make sure this info does’nt get out Especially on the no spin zone.

OK, tina1, I’ll take the bait.

Since the whole deal is about winning, about being winners, about attaining the prize, and since the Reps were able to edge out the blathering-and-flaccid Dems and the tiny-minority Naderites…

...congrats! Y’all have the gold cup, the White House, the majority share in Congress.

And since then?

As I’ve done before, I borrow from GOP hero Ronald Reagan. “Are you better off now than you were four years ago” he said while on the campaign trail. So I paraphrase to you, “Are you better off since George Bush took office?”

Who exactly can say “Yes!” to that question unequivocally and enthusiastically? Can you? Can your friends and family members? Can your neighbors and co-workers? Can the men and women in uniform? Can the Iraqis? Can even the Afghanis?

Those specific few Afghanis who literally have nothing left to fear from the insane Taliban, I’ll provisionally grant you. But how ‘bout beyond that tiny number?

Now don’t get all theoretical on me. No taking refuge in partisan hometown rah-rah. No reflexive repetition of the insults against liberals we all could hear on talk radio. Keep it down and dirty.

What exactly has improved for the people of the United States of America since Mr Bush took office?

Please keep it simple so I can get my deluded liberal head around it. Just spell it out in materialistic terms without any airy-fairy philosophizing.

For my part, I submit that it’s entirely too soon to predict whether the people of Iraq will in time judge themselves as being better off once the coalition forces bail out. I say that because it is unclear what kind of rulers will take the Iraqi throne under American auspices, once all the current madness shakes itself out. Neither you nor I know that answer, we’re stuck with predictions based on insufficient data. I am and you are as well. We’ll simply have to see whether or not another bunch of torturers replaces the ones we kicked out.

Saddam was a murderous prick, a megalomaniacal enjoyer of other people’s torments, everyone knows that. Everyone also knows how he was able to build up the 4th biggest military on Earth prior to Gulf War #1. How flamingly disgusted I have been that my taxes helped the mf’r to feather his blood-soaked nest!!

Does saying this mean I hate America?? It does not. When Bush said the entire world had to choose, “You’re either with us or against us!”, he forgot that American citizens can give him a resounding thumbs-down, even after he got re-elected, and still be true to what America has always stood for.

We’re not at a goddamn football game, choosing which team to root for.

I reject with all energy the idea that disdain and frustration with a sitting president’s policies equals anti-Americanism. Sorry but that’s just bullshit. I am perfectly able to respond skeptically and critically to a war policy with a hazy, falsely promoted justification AND a poorly planned, ill-prepared strategy AND a shoestring-budgeted, high-risk tactical regimen AND a secretive, media-bullying approach to public information AND a sheer lack of forethought about the impact of that policy upon the people living in the war theater WHILE STILL believing that America’s past victories over fascism and communism are to the benefit of the world…

...even if it is currently misled and deluded on the leadership front. In my arrogant, America-loving opinion.

You see, my countryman, I’m encouraged by my nation’s history and founding philosophy to evaluate a president’s actions in exactly this way. It’s my right and responsibility.

Haven’t you never been angry at someone you loved because they were being so fucking stupid at the moment?

(I’ll probably end up getting my emails monitored, but I’ll deal with that as it comes.)

So tina1, who is unequivocally better off now compared to back in the year 2000? Dyin’ to know…

Kuya,

Ya’ll are great!!

You too Rabit!!

I am still here, though most of the time laughing.

Look, I do not want the GOP to coutinue this absolute grab at power, but Tina is right about them continuing to win elections when certain elements of the left ( the leading voices mainly ) continue with thier propaganda.

Now to Kuma’s questions. 
1) I can say unequivocally and enthusiastically Yes.  In 1999 I fathered a child at the age of twenty-one.  I was climbing trees and not making enough money for health insurance. So we had to use Medicaid.  Getting Medicaid and keeping it, while we needed it, was a royal pain in the arse.  Today I am married to my son’s mother and a Biomedical Production Supervisor without college degree, because I busted my arse.  And we hope to be buying a house within a couple of years.

I know this is not the case for some, but it points out how you sound ridiculus when stating, “ Who exactly can say ‘Yes!’!”

2)

2)I have a lot of family and friends that are doing much better and some that are doing worse.  I think thats always the case though.

3) In 1999 if I looked out my bedroom window I would have seen woods.  Today someone bought the land and built a house and has some horses.  As for co-workers those that I have seen do worse, have done so because of thier actions.  And where I am currently, since 1999 over 15 people have been promoted with a staff generally around thirty.

4)The men and women of uniform, as far as I can tell love their job and their President.  As for doing better I will admit they are in more danger today than in 1999, BUT if Gore was elected and 9/11 happened we would still be there.  And I think having boots on the ground is a million times better than just bombing from 30,000 feet the way Clinton handled business.

5) Can the Iraqis, while it is true most want us to leave the overwheling majority are and think they are better off!!

6/7) Let me start by reprinting Kuya again,

“Can even the Afghanis?........Those specific few Afghanis who literally have nothing left to fear from the insane Taliban, I’ll provisionally grant you. But how ‘bout beyond that tiny number? “

HOW ABOUT WOMEN AND GIRLS GOING TO SCHOOL!!!

I think females make up more than a tiny number.

8)

Wife said time to go.  Damn.  I will be back, and I will tell you how it is better for the whole of the US and I will answer the rest of your questions later.

thinky

I have noticed the air is more foul than any I’ve ever breathed.

I have asthma now.

I’ve also noticed people with clearly disturbed psyches ranting on endlessly about “liberals” in a manner so inconsistent with the surrounding discussion for so long, that it appears to be symptomatic of mental illness.

As everyone but tina1 has probably noticed, no one here is “crying” or “whining” about anything.

I’m not laughing at tina1 anymore, there is something seriously wrong with this person. She rants on and on about “the liberals” under her bed.  I’m wondering if her parents or guardians know that she’s online. Whatever her chronological age is, her emotional age is around three and her maniacal little lol’s are evidence of a twisted little mind.

Her posts belong in the looney bin.

Not quite as good as seeing and hearing Sgt. Mark Seavey deliver his message, but still worthwhile.
-------------------------------------
Mudville Gazette has the details on an Army soldier who confronted Dem Reps. John Murtha and Jim Moran at a town hall meeting in Arlington, Va. Greyhawk transcribed the confrontation:

Free speech from those who make it possible.
-------------------------------------

“Yes sir my name is Mark Seavey and I just want to thank you for coming up here. Until about a month ago I was Sgt Mark Seavey infantry squad leader, I returned from Afghanistan. My question to you, (applause)

“Like yourself I dropped out of college two years ago to volunteer to go to Afghanistan, and I went and I came back. If I didn’t have a herniated disk now I would volunteer to go to Iraq in a second with my troops, three of which have already volunteered to go to Iraq. I keep hearing you say how you talk to the troops and the troops are demoralized, and I really resent that characterization. (applause) The morale of the troops that I talk to is phenomenal, which is why my troops are volunteering to go back, despite the hardships they had to endure in Afghanistan.

“And Congressman Moran, 200 of your constituents just returned from Afghanistan. We never got a letter from you; we never got a visit from you. You didn’t come to our homecoming. The only thing we got from any of our elected officials was one letter from the governor of this state thanking us for our service in Iraq, when we were in Afghanistan. That’s reprehensible. I don’t know who you two are talking to but the morale of the troops is very high.”

Moran - who is one of the few congressmen supporting Charlie Rangel’s call to restore the draft - responded quickly: “That wasn’t in the form of a question, it was in the form of a statement. But, uhh… let’s go over here.” And he took the next question.

http://www.mudvillegazette.com/archives/004016.html

Abramoff is hardly the only connection to bribery in D.C. As for “no Democrats” — check out the web for the story on William Jefferson.

No party is either all good or all bad. there is plenty of temptation to go around whenever power is misused.

I don’t think liberals should bring up CORRUPTION ... but since you brought it up I guess we should look at it.

This is only part of what happened in East St. Louis during the 2004 election.  In total .... 16 DEMOCRATS have been found GUILTY.  We aren’t talking indicted, we are talking CONVICTED ... GUILTY.

16 Democrats have been either plead guilty or have been found guilty in East St. Louis ....  and the LIBERAL MEDIA DOESN’T give much coverage on this.  Can you imagine if these were 16 Republicans ... It would be on the front page of the NY Times every day for the next year.

(March 2005) >> 5 DEMOCRATS INDICTED FOR VOTE FRAUD

Five East St. Louis Democrats were charged in a scheme to buy votes in November’s election in a federal indictment unsealed Wednesday.  An undetermined number of voters were paid $5 or $10 to cast a Democratic ballot in the Nov. 2 election, court records said. The money allegedly came from the St. Clair County Democratic Committee.  Federal prosecutors charged four Democratic committeemen and one precinct worker, a day after three other committeemen and a precinct worker pleaded guilty to related vote-buying charges in federal court.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=608576&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312

(June 2005) >> 5 DEMOCRATS WERE CONVICTED OF VOTE FRAUD

Convicted of conspiracy and vote fraud and facing five years on each count were:

* Kelvin Ellis, a Democratic precinct committeeman and former East St. Louis city government department head who served a federal prison term for extortion in the early 1990s.

* Yvette Johnson, secretary to the city Democratic organization.

* Democratic precinct committeemen Sheila Thomas and Jesse Lewis.

http://www.belleville.com/mld/belleville/12021188.htm

HERE ARE MORE LINKS ON THIS STORY:

Since the November elections 16 individuals in the St. Louis area have been convicted of voter fraud or election violations. 

http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2005/07/st-louis-democratic-convictions-are.ht tml

Guilty: 

http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2005/06/guilty-verdict-in-esl-voter-fraud.html

East St. Louis Democrat Chairman Convicted of Vote Fraud:

http://www.radiobs.net/thebluestateconservatives/archives/2005/06/east_st_louis_ _d.html

2 DEMOCRATS IN FEDERAL PRISON and another INDICTED ...

(1) Edwin Edwards - Louisiana Governor (DEMOCRAT)

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/10/16/eveningnews/main578506.shtml

>> Guilty on bribery and corruption charges

>> Sentence:  10 years in Federal Prison

>> Currently at Oakdale Federal Correctional Complex in Oakdale, LA.  (scheduled release date is July 6, 2011)

--------------------

(2) James Traficant - Ohio Congressman (DEMOCRAT)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A21296-2002Jul30

>> Guilty on taking bribes, filing false tax returns, racketeering

>> Sentence:  8 years in Federal Prison

>> Currently at Rochester Federal Prison Medical Center in Rochester, MN (scheduled release date is August 10, 2009)

http://www.bop.gov/iloc2/InmateFinderServlet?Transaction=NameSearch&needingM MoreList=false&LastName=Traficant&Middle;=&FirstName=James+&Race=U&a amp;Sex=U&Age;=&x=24&y=21

---------------

And here is another former DEMOCRAT Governor that was indicted last Oct.

(Oct 2005) EX-ALABAMA GOVERNOR INDICTED IN CONSPIRACY

Former Democrat Gov. Donald Siegelman was charged yesterday in a “widespread racketeering conspiracy” that includes accusations he took a bribe from former hospital executive Richard Scrushy for a key state appointment.  Also indicted on federal charges were two members of Mr. Siegelman’s administration and Mr. Scrushy, the former head of the HealthSouth medical-services company.

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20051026-111835-6195r.htm

*** I have more ... many more ... ***

QUESTION:  Isn’t it kind of strange that the liberal media never talks about Democrats that are currently sitting in FEDERAL PRISON for bribery, corruption and kickbacks ... Why is that? Why doesn’t the media talk about this?

PS - Like I said, if your a liberal, you don’t want to bring up CORRUPTION.  Because if you do, I will make you look stupid.

Another DEMOCRAT serves Federal Prison Time

(April 1999) Mark B. Jimenez, Democratic fund-raiser indicted

The Justice Department Campaign Finance Task Force today announced a forty-seven count indictment against Democratic fund-raiser Mark B. Jimenez for conspiracy, mail fraud, tax evasion, false statements, and the making and concealing of illegal conduit contributions to a number of Democratic campaigns. Jimenez had previously been charged in a seventeen count indictment in Washington, D.C. last September. Those charges are incorporated into the new indictment.

http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pr/1999/April/137crm.htm

+++++++++++

(August 2003) Mark B. Jimenez, former Democratic fund-raiser PLEADS GUILTY

Mark B. Jimenez, 55, former Democratic fund-raiser pleaded GUILTY to two counts of tax evasion and one count of conspiracy to defraud the United States and commit election financing offenses.

http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pr/2003/August/03_crm_439.htm

+++++++++++

(November 2003) Mark B. Jimenez, former Democratic fund-raiser SENTENCED TO 27 MONTHS

Jimenez, 55, was sentenced this morning by the Honorable District Judge Patricia Sietz of the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of Florida, Miami Division. In addition to the prison term, Jimenez was ordered to pay $1.2 million in restitution.

http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pr/2003/November/03_crm_616.htm

I keep hearing from liberals that Bush and Cheney are “crooks” and that all of their friends are “criminals”.  This inspired me to do a little research on Billy Clinton .... and I was amazed.

Here is a list of over 130 friends of Clinton that are true “criminals” ... 10 of them fled the country.  That’s correct, 10 friends of Bill Clinton fled the country because they were either INDICTED or being investigated by the FBI. 

Now, have any of Bush’s friends had to flee the USA?  the answer would be NO, NONE, ZERO, NADA

Bush’s friends that fled the country > 0, none

Clinton’s friends that fled the country > 10, ten

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/conv.html

yes and now it’s time for the rebulicans to do jail time. We can go back in time and name all the crooks in government for the pass 100 years, but we are talking about this year. How are the neo-cons going to spin their way out of it.
You think bush had a bad year in 2005 wait for 2006.
Make a list of all the crooks in the regan administration I know it’s hard to because he was rebublican.
AS far are you better off, 38 million americans are working two jobs and broke, they are called by bush the working poor, 44 million americans do not have health insurance.
WE are spending 1.3 billon a week in iraq. Bush has borrowed more money from foriegn countries than all 42 presidents put together. China,N.korea,iran are building arms for the next war and are gonig unchecked, what’s bush going to do make more sanctions.
The United States currently owes China over $650 BILLION in debt. That number is expected to grow to over $1 Trillion during the next 2 years. How is this possible? In order to pay for its two recent wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, the Bush administration has been forced to loan money from, you guessed it, China. Bush doesn’t even care about economic policy. He only cares about oil. Meanwhile Americans are losing their jobs and China is becoming rich.

it is funny only tina1 supports bush on this site. Where are all the bush supporters? I guess tina1 like bush have the same approval ratings.

Hey Brian28,

I guess you missed this news from 3 days ago.  Looks like we just had a SURPLUS in December 2005.

< U.S. Budget for December shows surplus >

Washington - The federal government posted the first budget surplus for December in three years as corporate tax payments hit an all-time high, helping offset a record level for spending, the Treasury Department reported Thursday.

The department said in its monthly budget report that government receipts surpassed spending by $10.98 billion last month. A year ago, the government ran a deficit of $2.85 billion in December.

http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/news/1137151809148090. .xml&coll=2

Also, our unemployment is 4.9% ....

Do you know what the unemployment rate is in FRANCE?  10% ... France’s unemployment rate is double ours.  Maybe you should move to France.  lol ... lmao ...

In fact, lets look France’s unemployment rate since 1999 >>>> http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?c=fr&v=74

What about BOEING ... I guess you missed this story also.

2005 a record-breaking year for Boeing sales

Orders likely to exceed those of Airbus for first time since 2000

By JAMES WALLACE
SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER AEROSPACE REPORTER

The Boeing Co. sold more than 1,000 jetliners in 2005.

About $112 billion worth of planes.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/254709_boeingorders06.html?source=mypi

QUESTION for Brian:  What is like to wake up everyday, thinking life is horrible, the USA is horrible ??

How do you do it? 

How do go on ... day after day ... being so bitter, so resentful, full of so much anger? 

I’m glad I’m not you and I’m glad I don’t know you.  I don’t know anyone that is negative like you and your liberals.

too funny ....

Hello think4yourself,

It’s good that your life is better now than in 1999. From what you wrote, I’m not sure Bush or his group get much credit, sounds like you made some personal and professional decisions that played out well for you. However, if you’d like to give his administration some credit for part of that (maybe thinking they stayed out of your way more than another administration would have), it is up to you.

You’re perfectly correct about females in Afghanistan having all kinds of ways better now that the Taliban are out of power, educationally and otherwise. My phrasing of “tiny” leaves them out wrongly. I would not say that the country is pacified or that peace and security reign, there are still Taliban fighters who are a threat in areas far from Kabul, but where there is a modicum of security, women and girls are better off.

Actually, I did back the attack upon Afghanistan. Having lived in that region when the Taliban were battling for power in the mid 90s, I got an idea of what they were all about and was and am glad they’re no longer calling the shots.

I’ve said this before in these pages, though I didn’t make it clear above, so it may not be known to you.

Now, Iraq, the centerpiece of the Bush presidency. That’s another story. In fact, I think that diverting resources to Iraq for two wars at once was tactically and strategically foolish. In fact, it was idiotic. It made the accomplishing of both missions harder, more expensive, more deadly, less supportable worldwide, and more damaging to American credibility. The real war against terror was in Afghanistan.

I believe that the US has been damaged by the Bush centerpiece policy, the single thing he’ll be remembered for most, even long after he’s out of office, even after he’s dead.

Our uniformed personnel are, as you said, in more danger. Everywhere they set foot. Our stature and level of respectability in the world are at the lowest point since before WW1. Our rhetoric about upholding human rights draws continued derision, and is seen more and more as either a bad joke or outright hypocrisy. Suspected enemies and criminals are put beyond due process. Our allies respond to us with suspicion and aversion (so unreasonable… what are a few secret prisons between old friends...). Jihadists, far from being discouraged as they might have been had the job in Afghanistan been followed up, are in the midst of being raised and recruited, with no shortage of willing candidates. And the resources that might have gone to stabilizing and basically cleaning up our mess in Afghanistan, thereby further benefitting Afghani females as well as everyone there, continue to shrink in availability but to be spent on the Iraqi quagmire.

As for stateside, the hyper-rich get the gift of tax cuts while schools and disaster response agencies go begging. The public is more and more polarized, both in relation to the Iraq war and culturally. Scandles mount (with the Abramoff Show still in Act One). The incarceration rate per capita resembles that of a one-party dictatorship. And the level to which America is financially beholden to foreign countries (how many would love to help scuttle us?) continues to mount.

It’s good your life has taken an upward path since 1999. Considering the Bush war policy, tax program, social/cultural agenda, domestic legislative plan, and approach to foreign relations, I guess you’ve been one of the lucky few.

If you think my questions and statements are ridiculous, well comrade, I can live with it. You mention yourself the power grab of Bush’s party. Even you must have misgivings, beyond that one citation of doubt. There’s plenty of grounds for such. I trust you will continue to think for yourself; it’s exactly what I’ve been doing, all this time.

Like I said you can spin this anyway you want. You are the only one supporting bush, you are in the minority, that is why you have to fight so hard to make your point. The american people are not buying your b.s. any more look at the poll numbers.
Sunday January 15, 2006--Forty-five (45%) of American adults approve of the way George W. Bush is performing his role as President. Fifty-three percent (53%) disapprove
if the election for Congress were held
today, more than two in five (43%) adults would vote for the Democratic
candidate, while one-third (34%) would vote for the Republican candidate, 14
percent would vote for someone else, and nine percent are undecided.
adults still believe the country has gotten off on the wrong track (54% think
the country has gotten off on the wrong track, while 33% say things are going in the right direction.
you will believe anything bush says, hitler used people like you when he rose to power. When dems get back in power and you don’t agree with what they say, remember if you say anything bad against them you will be hating the U.S.A.

jeez...do you guys always have to denegrate the discussion to your petty little hang-ups?  Who’s discussing the article?  I am falling prey to my own observation?

Ahem.  The soldiers of Iraq rightfully do not care about the people they are harrassing and killing, just as our soldiers of the past didn’t care when they killing Johnny Rebs, or Injuns; why the British and Dutch could enslave Africans; why the Egyptians cared not for Semitic types; why homo sapiens could wipe out Neanderthals who lived by the good spots of the river.  Land grab.  Territory.  We’re only human…

Stop getting all political about it.  It’s clouding your instincts. Or are the Tina1’s of the world your Iraqis?  They’ve taken over YOUR country!  C’mon, admit it, don’t you want to see Cheney and Bush standing naked on a box with a bag over their heads? 

Evolve or die.  The doom waits for us all.

P.S. Tina1 - I don’t like you, either.

Kuya said,

“I think that diverting resources to Iraq for two wars at once was tactically and strategically foolish.”

There is only one war. It is not against other nations, but is against a bunch of religious wackos (or at least religious people incited by wackos).  Iraq and Afghanistan, like the whole middle east were arbitrarily divided into “countries” by the west in 1921-1922.

This war is made more complicated by this lack of nation status. There is really nobody to accept a surrender from or to offer a treaty as in prior wars. There is also, unfortunately, no consensus in the U.S. that this is a “real” war. (especially at this site).

There should have been a declaration by Congress. Still should.

I’ll tell you what tina1 is to me rocco. He, she, or it represents where the left has gone very wrong. If I may generalize about the left being mostly individuals who support individualism and liberty, and are prone to tolerance.

Too much tolerance. Rather than being democratic and exercising democracy, the left tends to take tolerance to new and unnatural limits.

“The left” (which, as I already stated is a generalization) has tolerated antisocial behavior to the degree that if people on the far right (another generalization) were to start literally killing people on the left, just for being “liberal”, then the left would be wiser to figure out why the hell they thought that being tolerant of antisocial behavior was a sound practice, or why they thought it was better to try to reason with antisocial behavior and to attempt to fix it with love, instead of establishing reasonable social norms and limits and collectively rejecting antisocial behavior.

There is a difference between tolerating weakness and indulging abuse. I would like for my fellow “liberals” to think about this instead of going into some knee jerk flowers for shit routine, because indulging abuse is not really that much better than being abusive.

Hey Rocco,

Look at what the Muslims have done to France (not that I care about France).

France said ... “come on in .. all Muslims are welcome in France” ... “we are a peaceful society”. 

That plan worked well ... especially when the Muslims rioted for almost 3 weeks, burning down everything in sight, 9000 cars got torched.  lol ...

I did have to laugh, if anyone deserved that, it was France.  That was classic.  Could you imagine if we had a riot here in the U.S. that lasted 3 weeks. 

Ya ... just ask France how that Liberalism worked out for them ... nothing like having 10-11% unemployment. 

Maybe you liberals should just move to France ... ya, that’s the ticket.  You, the French, Muslims and a 11% unemployment rate. 

Savage is right ... “Liberalism is a Mental Disorder”

I forgot this ...

http://michellemalkin.com/archives/003801.htm

Is anyone else here willing to take the giant “liberal” leap of “censoring” hate speech?

Is there any reason why this right wing spam-fest must be tolerated?

the Muslims rioted for almost 3 weeks, burning down everything in sight, 9000 cars got torched.  lol ...

Yeah. That’s real funny, isn’t it?

If “liberals” can’t stand up to this disgusting shit pile of posts
because of fear of being intolerant of antisocial posts, then being victims is a “liberal” calling.

I move to ask this magazine to block tina1 and any and all partisan hate speech. If a person cannot rise above their propaganda, to communicate with others, especially when their posts are primarily insults to most of the rest of the participants in a forum, then what sense does it make to give such people a forum? They can host their own hate forums, can they not?

If everyone here thinks that “tolerance” and appearances are so much more important in a public forum than basic rules that any self-respecting adult would expect in just about any other space, then I’ll leave you to your “free speech” hair shirts, and strike out in search of people who are willing to take a stand against abusers.

Hey wileywitch ....

It’s too fun to get out of you liberals ... liberals are very predictable.

But, I think it’s only fair for the everyone to see your post to me on another thread.

++++++++++++++++++

HERE IS WHAT wileywitch SAID TO ME:

http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/discuss/2452/

You Republicans are never talking to anyone in particular, you just spout empty rants about the stereotypes you make up. It’s a lot like talking out your asses isn’t it? lmao.

YOU ARE TALKING OUT YOUR ASSES>>>>> YOU REPUBLICAN MORONS ALWAYS THINK YOU’RE IN CONTROL BECAUSE YOU TALK LIKE YOU ARE! lol.

You Repuclicans don’t know me or anyone else here, you’re all a bunch of useless sycophantic twits that are ALWAYS complaining about liberals because actually discussing issues is too much of an intellectual challenge for you. lol.
You retarded dip shit Republicans only bring up facts as supposed examples for supposed arguments that are still nothing but anti-liberal rants? lol. ALWAYS A STUPID RANT ABOUT THE “LIBERALS” YOU MAKE UP>>>>>>.LOL.

You dumb ass Republicans are always holier-than-thou nincompoops that don’t understand that your little reign is nothing more than a drop of piss in a bucket of your own shit. You Republicans are living in your little fantasy posts where you’re all the little kings of your dungheap. lol.
You Republicans are always angry. lol. You republicans are antisocial assholes that are in love with the smell of your own farts.lol.

And it’s not enough for you social misfit Republicans to spout your mindless horseshit amongst yourselves, you go around shitting on everyone elses’ porch. LOL.
IN THE END THOUGH, WHO NEEDS THE OTHER THE MOST? YOU STUPID PIG REPUBLICANS APPARENTLY NEED LIBERALS MORE THAN THEY NEED YOU. LOL..
THIS JUST PROVES THAT REPUBLICANS ARE MENTALLY ILL. LOL.

And you can prove that you’re not angry, look at all those lol’s.

Posted by wileywitch on Jan 14, 2006 at 2:19 PM

http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/discuss/2452/

Hey tina1…

What’s the big deal?

Everything she said about you and your sidekick neocon hacks is true.

You spout empty rants about stereotypes…

You definitely talk straight out of your assholes…

The part about being morons is right on the money…

Ditto with the useless sycophantic twits…

Strongly agree about the dumb ass retarded dipshits and the drop of piss in a bucket of shit…

And I doubt that anyone would disagree that you’re a bunch of antisocial assholes in love with the smell of your own shit.

I’m sure that most of us here would agree that dubya was understating the situation, with perhaps the possible exception of one missing, minor observation:

You’re a putz.

That’s the part of the foreskin that’s discarded after the circumcision.

lol, Dumbo.

For anyone who hasn’t seen twenty or thirty of tina1 one’s posts, let me point out something.

The post she’s referring to was an attempt to hold up the mirror of reality for her.  She either saw herself in it, or didn’t. I don’t care.

I wrote a particularly vulgar post, because I was only going to do it once---not twenty or thirty times with no regard for prior posts.

I’m going to do a little experiment. See you in a bit.

You niggers are something else ... you just can’t accept the fact that you LOST.  But that makes sense, niggers always think they are correct, never wrong about anything.  Niggers know everything.  lol ....

Why wasn’t Ohio a problem in 2000?  And why aren’t you niggers looking into Wisconsin?  Kerry only won that state by 11,000 votes ... only 11,000.  Bush wins by 120,000 in Ohio and there is some kind of problem, but Kerry wins by only 11,000 in Wisconsin and the “nigger conspiracy theory” nuts don’t say a thing.

Funny that the day after the election we only heard about 1-2 hour lines in Ohio.  Then a week later, we hear about 3-4 hour lines in Ohio.  A few weeks later, people were waiting 6 hours in line to vote.  A month later, oh .. now we have people that waited 10 hours in line to vote.

PS - Do you see how stupid that story sounds?

lol .. keep drinking the kool-aid ...

I can’t wait to hear your stories after the 06’ mid-terms, this is gonna be good.

The “whatever dude” estrangement from the bizarre reality of America’s unjustified destruction of Iraqi culture and society is consistent with the degree of “detachment” bush types display to whats going on in the rest of the world.  South America is disassociating itself from everything bush, Asia is positioning itself to take over after the bush fallout, Africa is just trying to ride out the storm while Europeans pray they aren’t sucked into the black hole America’s bunker bombs created in the Middle East.  American military personnel know they’re on the wrong side of history but they act like they’re in denial, just like bush people act like nobody knows they’re frauds.

tina1 - I did move to Europe.  It rocked.  But my goddamn visa ran out, so now I’m back with you rednecks.  Home of the brave...(a single tear).  And some parts of Italy has 20% unemployment, but when I got in a car wreck, my hospital stay was free.  Zero. Niente.  From your evident lack of formal education, I assume you don’t make a lot of money, so that might be an appealing concept to you.

wileywitch - hm.  I can’t tell if I agree with you or not on this one (which is driving me crazy).  For the sake of being a prick, I’ll take the opposing side. For discussionary structure, let’s keep the concepts of left and right very formal - straight to its origin of the French Revolution (that’s right, tina1, the French).  Those on the left of the congress were for democracy, those on the right were for monarchy.

tina1 makes up a sizeable chunk of the 300 million Americans in many backwater states and working-class burroughs.  When polled, even blacks and Latinos are sadly rightist (in the above sense) on many issues - though they usually have the good sense to know that the Republican Man is out for their hides and vote otherwise.  So, ironically, the masses have chosen to give up popular rule, in a way.  I don’t see how the left can stop such ignorance on a massive scale.  And the schools ain’t gettin’ any sharper...Harvard is considered the best school in the country!!! Harvard!!! Ack.  Anyway, I see that less as a ‘failure’ of those for democracy that nature taking its course.  Did our Founding Fathers really expect to spawn such cretins?  If they did, they should have written in an ‘Enlightened Despot’ codicil. 

This is a familiar historical trend of world leaders: I think some hormone must be released in humans once they’re the Alpha, even on an abstract and global scale, that fosters arrogance and disregard for others of the pack.  The others usually get sick of this, and whip the hell out of the Alpha after a while. 

Sooner or later the barbarians sack Rome.  We seem to forget that poverty toughens and angers others to the point of awful violence.  We could wage war against them and their resources, or we could learn from history and science and philosophy and...wow, that IS good Kool-aid!  I can see the floor moving…

Last point: I don’t wish to ban tina1 from this site (my home, yes).  I think it’s instructive to see just how the gears of her little mind works.  It’s like studying a clear glass wind-up doll.  I want to know exactly how those crude mental gears lock themselves into place for my own scientific observations.

If we detach ourselves from the majority of this country - illiterate reactionary racist sexist anti-gay fools (who believe in that some Guy in the clouds that loves them and created them from a rib) - just because they’re offensive, we will never learn anything from them.  Not that they have much in the way to teach per se, but knowledge can always be extracted from anything.  Like watching turtles. 

Hell, I’m offended every day.  My waking consciouness is a barrage of offense, a steady stream of suburban horror - idiot drivers, menthol smokers, fat little children with tight ugly clothing, lies in the news, prescription drug ads.  If only I could censor all that (’If only Rome had but one neck!’ cried Caligula.)

2 types of people: those who want the world to adapt to them, and those who adapt to the world.  I wrote it before, I’ll write it again.  Evolve or die, kiddies.  Is it warm in here or is it just me?

You’re right about how the alpha male and testerone works, rocco---Ofiginally it---the most famous experiment supporting the idea that alpha males were alpha males because they had more testerone to begin with, was conducted by carrying out testesterone tests only after the alpha males won their position. Then somebody had the insight to test the testerone levels of all the males, before the big alpha male parade and again afterward. 

There is no direct correlation between the amount of testerone an animal has before the exhibition (or, in this case, the election). The male that “wins”, wins because all the other monkeys cowered and stepped back when he roared. After the alpha male is chosen by the group, his testerone level goes up, and the testerone levels of the others drops.

Bullies being bullies, and others being bullied is a communal choice, however unconscious it may be.

I think we’re dealing with serious sociopathy, and that our ‘leaders’ never cared about others. Now, they have a large budget, and a lot of foot soldiers to help make them be what they’ve always been---tyrants.

Thanks for your consideration, rocco.  I will use your left/right delineation.

Rep. Murtha (D-PA) & Rep. Moran (D-VA) Town Hall Meeting
Rep. Jack Murtha (D-PA) attends a Town Hall meeting in Arlington, VA, hosted by Rep. Jim Moran (D-VA). Rep. Murtha discusses his controversial call for the redeployment of U.S. troops in Iraq.

This is on C-span. Only one troop had anything nice to say about our involvement in Iraq.

There are many reasons why recruitment is difficult now. The following post

not a happy camper

Don’t thank me, thank the French.  Vive la France! (singing Marseillaise, eating Gruyere, adjusting cravate)

Last point: I don’t wish to ban tina1 from this site (my home, yes).  I think it’s instructive to see just how the gears of her little mind works.  It’s like studying a clear glass wind-up doll.  I want to know exactly how those crude mental gears lock themselves into place for my own scientific observations.

Can’t you see the same thing from the commentary on Fox news and the snickering little imps that they call reporters? There are hundreds (if not more) of this tina1 mentality trolling the web every day and trying to deposit more of their hate while insisting that they are some kind of majority who is privy to the insight of “basic math” and “common sense.” They seem to have the mentation ability of someone who has never had any post secondary education or they let it rot while basking in the glow of of propaganda spewing talking heads on the TV news. This troll in particular offers nothing new because her arguments are all the old “talking points” that the GOP propaganda machine have pumped out like pollution. Truthfully, the woman insists that “liberals” are SOoo predictable, when the vile garbage she spews is the same garbage that’s always been spewed by the ignorant and scared people who would rather hate somebody else than look in the mirror. As you pointed out, it happened in Rome and it’s happening now.

I’d also like to note that the sociopathic personality is notorious for trying to stir up emotions and debate amongst those who have some understanding of the difference between right and wrong:

It’s too fun to get out of you liberals

Not that that sentence isn’t a perfect example of someone who slaughters grammer on a regular basis, but it is also a prime example of how the sociopathic personality ticks. Although I cringed when I read Wiley’s little rant up there where she replaced the word, “liberal,” in one of Tina’s posts with one that most would find offensive, it drove the point home well with me. She (tina1) comes here and trashes people on a regular baisis simply because we will defend her right to do so as people who believe in free speech. Trust me, tina1 (or whatever she calls herself this week) has no such standards. It’s kind of like those foolish people who think that GWB wouldn’t do something evil because he’s Christian. It’s truly frightening.

Gruyere cheese is great. Melted on bread with French Onion Soup. Mmmm good.

Vive la France, indeed.

But the cheese itself is Swiss in origin although there is some dispute about it with the French.  Gruyere Cheese is named for the town of the same name in Switzerland.

Stinky Pete - I trust no one. But: assuming you are correct that tina1 ‘has no such standards’ - and by this I guess you mean values of freedom and liberty afforded to all - it would be foolhardy to mimic those methods.  Systems which prize efficiency over values tend to destroy the whole - thus being wholly inefficient. 

So let the retard babble.  She’s fairly harmless, even entertaining.  Don’t most good stories have a villain?  And isn’t entertainment why we’re here?  Does anyone honestly believe they’re affecting world policy on this tread?  From the reaction that trolls like tina1 normally get, I think they’re fulfilling a symbiotic need for most people here. 

I only fear Rabbit.  He must be stopped somehow.

“...some controversy existed whether French cheeses of a similar nature could also be labeled Gruyère..."---wikipedia

It’s just like you, David, to invite controversy, like this. There was no cheese argument, until NOW.

Jiminy Cricket, you people are impossible. Now, I’ll storm off to the kitchen, take some Midol, and wash something.

Harrumph.

A billion French cheeses and I pick a disputed Swiss.  Next time I’ll cross-reference my jokes better.

I am constantly amazed that people respond to obvious freepers like tina1 over and over again. I made my one initial response to an insult and that was enough for me. Ignore him (tina1 is not a woman, anymore than Ann Coulter is).

Or maybe some of you think you will eventually convert him to reason and intelligence. There is not a chance.

Keep this is mind: Trying to teach a pig to sing is a waste of time and it annoys the pig.

Move on to intelligent discussion between those of us who matter.

whew… I have not laughed so hard in quite some time.

Entertainment is a good part of why we are here, maybe the best part.

From the reaction that trolls like tina1 normally get, I think they’re fulfilling a symbiotic need for most people here.

Well said Rocco. Where would we be without someone like Tina1 to drive us crazy with “Liberalism is a Mental Disorder” rants. But I still don’t get what you have against Rabbit beyond his third person self-references.

Anyways ...

Rocco, I enjoyed your joke, even if it was cheesy.

Wiley, sorry I cheesed you off ;)

by this I guess you mean values of freedom and liberty afforded to all

Yep, that’s what I meant.

it would be foolhardy to mimic those methods

I’m not suggesting that we all go out to the Free Republic website and spew our disdain for their ways. I was merely suggesting that Wiley may have a point because when we signed on to this board, we agreed not to be hateful. Although I believe strongly in freedom of speech, I also believe that laws and regulations are a necessity of civilization.

Yes, I’ll admit that her rants can be entertaining and that they can be ignored when they go over the top as one poster pointed out, but sometimes it gets old. I work on a forum where such posts as hers are not allowed and there still is plenty of entertainment value to go around.

On the flip side, I usaully don’t make a habit of responding to trolls or “freepers” before banning (actaully, it’s called a “bozo” function on my forum), because doing so usually feeds the pathology of their little “mental disorder.” I only enforce the rules as they are layed out on the “sign up” page. Sometimes, just sometimes, I afford a warning to those posters who seem to have forgotten the rules for the duration of a post.

I only fear Rabbit.  He must be stopped somehow.

Oh, yes. The waskewy wabbit! The Aussie and his posse! Nope, I think there is no way to stop the furry fellow.

Or maybe some of you think you will eventually convert him to reason and intelligence. There is not a chance

I actually agree with this. No amount of facts or reason will stop them from spewing their hate. They seem to have no cause = effect reasoning and no discernable skills besides the skill to try and spread their disease and hate. But maybe it could be healthy to rip apart their faulty logic since we certainly can’t make places like Fox News accountable for theirs. Live with it and/or ignore it? I guess it’s a matter of personal choice. Personally, I’d rather not feed the troll.

Hello whattheheck,

I belatedly reply to: “There is only one war. It is not against other nations, but is against a bunch of religious wackos (or at least religious people incited by wackos).  Iraq and Afghanistan, like the whole middle east were arbitrarily divided into “countries” by the west in 1921-1922.”

No doubt, the creation of mandates after WW1, which were judged as unable to self-govern and so were governed by countries among the Allies, have helped lead to the current state of affairs by grouping disaffected peoples together into nation-states that were kept unified largely by those Allies’ troops. I’m skeptical that people learn much from history, the opposite appears more true to me (i.e. refusing to learn), however hopefully we will have learned that arbitrary nation-making via cartography-at-a-distance is a recipe for future conflict. Failing to take into account the peoples being manipulated and their bases of identity is neither intelligent nor able to succeed in the long run.

I don’t agree that Iraq and Afghanistan constitute a single war of two major theaters. The motivation for invading Afghanistan (to pursue and punish a known enemy who were being harbored by an unfriendly and uncooperative regime) was not the same as for the invasion of Iraq (to punish and depose a former ally-dictator as part of a policy goal articulated by the PNAC at least as early as 1997, exacerbated by said former ally having ignored UN demands regarding his weapons programs, or so it is said). Saddam was paying suicide bombers in Israel/Palestine, I acknowledge, and part of his eligibility for invasion relates to this, although you’ll certainly acknowledge that the primary justification for invasion that was promoted to the American people and their representatives was the WMD tip.

Which didn’t play out as factual, no more than did the supposed Saddam-al Qaeda axis.

(to continue)

(continuing)

Can it all be laid at the feet of “crap intel”? If so, it effectively meant that the Bush team chose to throw punches while blind. That seems to me to be a horrifyingly regretable condition, not a condition that makes the Iraq war more justifiable.

scorp (if he still visits here) will remind me that the Iraq Liberation Act came down during the Clinton admin, codifying the intent to depose Saddam. True, but that fact doesn’t change the chain of decisions made by the Bush team, nor the “facts” used to support those decisions, nor the content of the propaganda efforts used to gain Congressional approval.

I say “two wars” because the nature of the enemy is different in each, as was the advertised justification, as were the stated intentions underlying the separate invasions.

You do have a point about a declaration of war by Congress, rather than presidential decision, being the proper mechanism. There is a good reason why that mechanism was included in the Constitution, removing (so it was thought) the ability for one leader to unilaterally take the country to war. However, it wouldn’t improve the value of the stated justifications, which still would not have stood the test of scrutiny even if a Congressional declaration had been made.

However, there’s not much reason to think that Bush is allergic to unilateralism, whether in regards to domestic partners of his in government nor in regards to allies abroad. Quite the contrary. Nor is there reason to think that he is overly attached to Constitutional propriety as a delimiter of his decision-making process. He’s apparently willing to interpret it in a way that allows him to virtually ignore it.

There’s also increasingly little reason to have confidence in America’s intelligence organizations, which are obviously one of two things: hopelessly inept or in someone’s pocket. Neither option inspires much confidence in me, in fact given the realities of the last 3 years, I would be suspicious of virtually anything they said.

It’s a little difficult to, in effect, accept the equivalent of, “Ooopsy, oh shit, we got it wrong, sorry about that!” when we’re talking about taking the country to war. Call me a stickler for detail, but is it entirely unreasonable to expect a drastic decision like that to be based on information that is at least largely factual?

Unless, of course, the decision has already been made and the “information” is simply backfill?

Actually, it’s a bit of a moot point; maybe not needing two posts’ worth of address by me. Certainly most minds have long been made up in relation to the issue. The milk is spilt, and at this point the best America can do is try to apply its energies toward cleaning up the mess. If it’s possible at all for them to clean up a damn thing rather than make it worse, which is itself highly debatable.

Good points Stinky Pete.

Like it says .. Please be respectful in your comments .. and I have said the same, many ways and many times.

Personally, I like trolls . Sick, huh? But like Rocco says we need the villains and I find them fascinating too. It is exciting when they come out from under the bridge.

He really does, Stinky Pete---all the time, he says, be nice and be respectful. David loves trolls the way Jesus loved tax collectors. There was probably more comic relief among tax collectors than there is among trolls, but David is Canadian (hence the “in Canada” part).  Canada is a hotbed of niceness and troll tolerance.

Did anyone see Al Gore today?  He snapped ... again.  It was great, not as good as his “betrayed America” rant, but still funny.

With Dean, Kennedy, Kerry, Reid, Schumer and the likes of Michael Moore and some of you on this board ... I really not worried at about the 06’ mid-terms or the 08’ election.

That is .. if you libs keep talking.  I don’t think you really realize how much you help the GOP. 

By the way ... who will the Dems put up for the 08’ race?  Hillary ... maybe Kerry again.  Will Kucinich and Sharpton be in the mix again? 

Well, whomever it is ... do you think they can beat this ticket .... McCAIN / ROMNEY

McCain will win the nomination and he will pick Mitt Romney as his VP.  The Dems can’t beat that ticket ... NO WAY !!!

Check out Mitt ....

http://www.mass.gov/portal/site/massgovportal/menuitem.76437090b8e731c14db4a1103 30468a0c/?pageID=gov2terminal&L=2&L0=Home&L1=Romney+Team&sid=Ago ov2&b=terminalcontent&f=gov_mittromneybio_homepage&csid=Agov2

Now check his wife ... Ann Romney ... she’s a little different than Kerry’s wife ....

http://www.mass.gov/portal/site/massgovportal/menuitem.76437090b8e731c14db4a1103 30468a0c/?pageID=gov2terminal&L=2&L0=Home&L1=Romney+Team&sid=Ago ov2&b=terminalcontent&f=gov_annromneybio_homepage&csid=Agov2

If Mitt Romney is the VP ... then he will be a “stone cold lock” for Pres after McCain does his 2 terms. 

So you have 8 years of McCain and then 8 years of Romney ... and Bush has 3 more years.  So you libs are looking at 19 more years of the GOP in the White House. 

HOW DO YOU LIKE THEM APPLES ???

lol ... lmao ...

WHO’S YOUR DADDY !!!

Kuya, that’s a good point about the boundaries of nations being redrawn.  The world had barely gotten over the League of Nations’ redrawing of the maps when the Cold War ended and many small countries of the world whose economy depended on supporting one side or the other failed miserably in the aftermath. 

Oh, this godawful tinkering with nations! Will we ever learn?!

Hi Tina1,

Why not take your political ideas to a more suitable thread like The Republican Crack-Up.

You had the third post from the top and since then it has been almost all about you. This thread has gotten far enough off topic debating your presence.

Please take it to the appropriate thread. Thanks.

to Rocco:

Now why would you say I’m a racist?

What is it with you libs always throwing the racist word around? 

Bush is called a racist, yet he had two African-Americans to the highest position ever by a President.  The Bush family has know Condi from back in Texas ... and she has been at many family dinners and outings with the Bush’s.

Glenn Beck was called a racist for calling out the mayor of Columbus in that incident with the mentally challenged girl that was molested at school.  The mayor was black so Beck was called racist.

I wonder if those that called Beck a racist know that the little handicapped girl that was molested was black and that Glenn Beck paid the tuition for that girl to go to a private school. 

QUESTION:  Would a racist pay the tuition for an African-American child to attend a private school? 

PS - I have to laugh about someone on this board calling me a racist.  Why would I laugh?  Several reasons ... first, my husbands best man was Cuban and my 14-yr old son’s three best are (1) Indian, (2) Cuban, (3) African-American ... we are great friends with their parents and we are always doing things together ... BBQ’s ... camping ... amusement parks ... and trips to Vegas.  (and they are all republicans).  I’m sure they will get a kick out of seeing this thread and someone calling me a racist. 

In fact, I’m going to email this to all of them now. 

Ya ... I can say for sure that I’m not worried about the 08’ election ... or the mid-terms.

Yet more proof that “Liberalism is a Mental Illness” ...

Stupid lost post...growl…

Rabbit’s cannot be stopped, you know that by now Rocco.

This is but a stage where we all dance and act, for an audience, let it never be forgot these forums are public, and thus how we perform, how convincing our case and our face, is adjusged on a highjer plane, or a different one to that which we inhabit.

It is each actors lot to play himself, and thus if he is a moron then let him be an excellent moron, if it be a Shill then let it be a shiny and clever shill, and excellent shill, and if it be a Troll, then may that Troll be the finest the most excellent Troll.  Also there is place, some might say a need, for a small rabbit with a small sword to play his assigned part too.  How fine a Rabbit is it?  This is the only thing we can judge.  The fact that it is a rabbit and not a Frog, a Donkey or an Eagle is of no more consequence than that if the troll is male or female.

Allthough it might seem otherwise, the rabbit does not live for the hunt.  Rabbit prefers to share information and disseminate truth and what is right, and share opinions about things, speculatively especially.  Unfortunately this is nearly impossible due to the infestation of Trolls and Shills which seem to be everywhere, but for some reason they are attracted to ITT a lot lately.  Morons too can be distracting but they are rarely of longer duration.  Up one floats, pop its bubble and it sinks back into the primeval sludge of mass ignorance.  But due to circumstances the Rabbit has been forced to beat his plough into a sword and make a suit out of his bottle cap collection, and to sally forth, rounding up, culling and battling the wankers.  One of the tactics of battle is to use the presence of the Troll or Shill as a foil and thus bring more information into the arena.  This also annoys the Shills especially who usually don’t have much to put up in return.  But just because one makes the ebst of the devils and uses them for the cause, it is not a choice, Rabbit would make if he had one.

Lastly and perhaps more important, has been mentioned by most, they are entertaining.  By this it is understood they are not intrinsically entertaining.  Look at Tina1 or as Rabbit calls it, Tiny Shrew, for she is a he is Andrew too.

She babbles half coherantly and with tardemark Bush followers mangled syntax, she makes outrageous spins on fact, makes arrogant and quite unjustified assertions of superiority and then dissolves in maniacal laughter..LOL

Now in this day and age such a performance is not amusing.  We are above that and find it just sad and irritating.  However, if the troll can be made to dance, if someone or several of us can taunt or cajole it into doing and saying silly things which invite sidesplitting replies, they become our straight-man, our comic foil our toy for the simple purgative effect of wacking someone who asks for it.

We don’t need them, but we make the most of them. 

We adapt to changing circumstances. 

Lastly , Tiny Shrew you are a delighful Troll and with several fancy tricks, would you please be Rabbit’s personal Troll?  He still has no troll, his own got broken and ran away. 

It is interesting you think we are all Liberals and that we have mental illnesses.  It is always interesting when one person tries to tell a whole group of people thay are crazy.  Especially one who bursts into weird LOL’s every second line.

Rabbit isn’t really a Liberal, he is an Anarchist.

Tiny Shrew, are you sure you’re not a Racist?  You do seem to have an inordinate amount of other forms of bigotry, and your grasp on reality, even the spin on Al Gore’s very reasonable and well argued speech doesn’t bode well for sour recognising anything so difficult to spot as one’s own Racism.

Tiny Shrew asks:
QUESTION:  Would a racist pay the tuition for an African-American child to attend a private school? 

Answer:  Yes, and then the racist would make a point of telling people about it everytime they were called a racist.

The same goes for talking about your alleged friends. They sound like your trophies. Lots of middle class racists make a point of having some “Racial”, friends.  They like to tell us all about it.

As an outsider (from Scotland) I look at the American two party system and this artificial distinction between “liberal” and “conservitive” with dismay.

Both the Democrats and the Republicans are funded, by and large, by the same donors - Wall Street and the Military Industrial Complex. Both are slanted to different industries, Big Oil for the republicans, Agribusiness for the democrats, but both serve the interest of the dollar rather than the American people. This isn’t a wild conspiracy, its just how America (and Europe to a lesser extent) works. Its how “the West” works.

After all if you are a corporation and you donate say $100,000 to a party, you see it an an investment, and you want to see a return for that investment in the form of legislation sypathetic to your interests. Or in many cases the opening up of new resources and markets abroad, by subversion or force if necessary. (Indonesia in the 1970s is a textbook example of this).

In short, the supposed vast ideological gulfs between the two main parties is illusionary. There are superficial ideological differences, but these have very little bearing in reality in any tangible way. The mass media, which is owned by those corporations, and is finded via advertising by other corporations, is keen to maintain this perception. By perpetuating these supposed boundaries of “left” and “right” the spectrum of political discource is exceedingly narrow, and anyone outwith it is automatically categorised is an extremist.

Even the terms “left” and “right” are redundant, if they were ever accurate in the first place. People generally hold views that do not fit neatly in these pidgeonholes, human thought is a vast, diverse and diffuse cloud, not a sliding scale and defenitely not a choice between two imaginary polarities, defined by and large by childish hatred for the other pole.

The worldview of Left and Right, Republican and Democrat, is an intellectual prison.

Tiny Shrew, for she is a he is Andrew too

How very Seuss of you!

Tiny Shrew you are a delighful Troll and with several fancy tricks, would you please be Rabbit’s personal Troll?  He still has no troll, his own got broken and ran away.

*SNIFFLE* How utterly sad...and it’s really too bad...because you’ll probally break poor Andrew / Tina too...for he / she too is a fragile shrew of repetative spew.

Rabbit isn’t really a Liberal, he is an Anarchist

Shhhh....silly, wabbit. Shrew only thinks in terms of Liberals vs. Republicans. It’s also foolish enough to think that it speaks for all conservatives and it has no clue that it is way out on the fringes of the ultra-right wing. Truthfully, if it is a prime example of the neo-con, I don’t mind it calling me “liberal.” I believe in all that truth and justice crud that gets in the way of the neo-con agenda. You know...that nasty Bill of Rights that America once prided itself on, but now it’s just something attached to what Bush calls “just a f**king piece of paper.”

Yes, and then the racist would make a point of telling people about it everytime they were called a racist

Yup, that’s what they do. Then they get upset when they tell a racist joke and nobody laughs...because...HEY...those minorities have to learn how to laugh at themselves. What a load of BS that is. Gotta’ love the fact that it’s threatening to email its alleged ethnic pals to show them and everyone else how un-racist it is. I wonder how it’s going to expain its gender dysphoria…

I do love the way Wiley compared Canadian David’s love of trolls to Jesus and his love for tax collectors. That cracked me up.

People generally hold views that do not fit neatly in these pidgeonholes

See...even the Highlander’s get it! We are stuck in this rut of only holding a two party system here in the US. It’s all funded by corporations and it’s getting sickening. How about we make the candidates go through a few rounds of a pubically funded game and make it like Jeopardy. At least then, we’d get somebody who could read and knows something about history.

Anouncer: “Mr. Bush, name the president who said that agreeing with a President without question is unpatriotic and morally treasonous to the American people.”

---theme music---

Bzzzz....

Now, that’s a show I’d watch!!

Kuya,

“...certainly acknowledge that the primary justification for invasion that was promoted to the American people and their representatives was the WMD tip.”

Yes, unfortunately. The media can only cope with simplicity.

The administration did not even make a decent attempt to make the case to the American public and the world at large before invading. Only about a month ago — too little too late did he speak again to the issue. It was quicker to go with the “blessing” of most of our Congress and lean on the U.N. Resolution 1441.

People often make rash decisions out of fear. Put yourself in the position of Commander in Chief (try to ignore this is Bush). Your country is attacked. You and the previous President already believe Saddam should go. It is generally accepted he is a ruthless killer of thousands, etc.

While the president and others did give additional reasons, did say this would take years, perhaps decades. It have been should be apparent that the public has a short memory and politics makes poor alliances. Add to that the reluctance to “panic” Americans and they sent a mixed message, “This is a REAL WAR!… but don’t be afraid. Go about business as usual and we will color code the threat level.”

Talk about STUPID!

-----------------------------------------------
(WMD) “Which didn’t play out as factual, no more than did the supposed Saddam-al Qaeda axis.”

So far.

With over 2 million pieces of info captured which needs to be translated, it could take years to decide for certain.  (The world was only theoretically round until the accepted “facts” were finally disproven.)
-----------------------------------------------

“Can it all be laid at the feet of “crap intel”? If so, it effectively meant that the Bush team chose to throw punches while blind. That seems to me to be a horrifyingly regrettable condition, not a condition that makes the Iraq war more justifiable.”

Again, Yes, unfortunately it is possible.

Yesterday I heard about the police shooting a boy who had painted over the orange paint identifying his pistol as a pellet gun. A friend later said he had claimed he wanted to die. We react to our perceptions.

Note: I wonder if it occurred to those who thought the orange paint a good idea, that a holdup man can now paint his real pistol orange and gain the needed time for a first shot.  More stupidity in the name of good intentions.

Wiley,

“Oh, this godawful tinkering with nations! Will we ever learn?! “

Neither a Tinkerer nor a Tinkeree be.

The problem is eternal, I believe. Boundaries have always been disputed. They may temorarily be enforced (Tito with Yogoslavia) and when constaints are lifted the old problem emerges once again.

I can’t help being cynical, sorry.

tina1 - I never called you a racist.  That was an inference on your part, not an implication on mine.  Carefully re-read.  Why are racists always such lazy readers?

whattheheck - While I don’t disagree, I think the current case is a little different than border dispute.  Plunder seems more appropriate.  Which is also age-old.  I think the main cognitive dissonance for most Americans - which differs from say Viking cultures, which encouraged plunder - is that our mythology doesn’t involve bitter deities fighting pointlessly until the fated Ragnorak, but noble Humanists who threw off the shackles of despotism ‘in order to form a more perfect Union.’ Oh, yeah, and Jesus.  The guy who helped the poor?

Most of us were taught that we were the fairest, freest nation on earth, and that mythology is a big part of our collective self-image.  We weren’t plunderers, but lighting the torch of freedom throught the world.  Hence why the Bushies keep hammering away at ‘Iraqi democracy.’ The rubes need this to be true.  It’d shock the system to come out and say: “We need more oil, folks.  And by god we’re going to get it if we have to kill every last one of those brown bastards (tina1, oh my god, you’re so racist. I can’t believe you thought that).”

We as a society therefore have a problem...I call it growing pains.  We have one foot in the past (empire) and one foot in the future.  Unfortunately I don’t think America has the intellectual fortitude to handle that dilemma, and we’ll all probably end up dying while simultaneously eating and playing Xbox.  So let’s see what our friends in the southern hemisphere come up with, yeah?  They seem to have hit the main nerve vis-a-vis adaptation.  Give Asia 250 years to form a coalition with Africa and South America.

Rabbit - Right on cue.  Would you do me a favor and wax ponderant and above the petty human fray for me, while swimming in self-adulation?

Everyone knows tina1 is a nut job, and when the dems take back power in the white he-she tina1 will kill themselves. Delay step down,Bob Ney has resigned as head of the House Administration Committee.
It is still jan. neo-cons will be dropping like flies by mid year.

Rocco,

You may have explained my ambivalence — half my heritage is Viking, the other half participated in throwing off those shackles you wrote of.

Yes, more than a border dispute, but so is the Croatian/Serb conflict. Most of these situations are far more complex than history records, I’m sure. I know we “need” oil. This has been a factor in a number of wars since the invention of the internal combustion engine, but if not oil it would be some other “necessity.”

Until 9/11, I doubt that any president would have dared a preemptive strike. As I said in my previous post, I can accept acting out of fear rather than only for oil.

The last president in my life time whose integrity I have much respect for is President Truman, who did not really want the job. Since then nearly all the winners have lusted over the office all of their adult lives.

To accept the action taken one must believe this war is the real thing — I do.  (Not on a nation or two, but against radical Islam.) Whether that is the only motive is debatable, but whatever motives are involved we cannot walk away from the current situation.

War on radical Islam? So you’re alright with a war on radical Christianity, right whattheheck? Religions are fair game? Should we attack every Muslim nation?

Actually, thinking about the 700 club makes me think that bombing ourselves might not be a bad idea.

whattheheck - A war against radical Islam.  The Christopher Hitchens position. 

This motive interests me for several reasons.  And while I don’t think that really was the impetus for war (Iraq was secular before the invasion) it could, from a certain point of view, hold merit.  They will stop at nothing to kill us, so we must do the same to survive.  A fairly bleak scenario, but plausible. 

There are other methods of battling extremism.  Working against poverty and ignorance is, in my opinion, the most effective means of stopping people from killing themselves over archaic ideas.  Who wants fifty virgins in heaven when you can afford professional call girls right here on earth?

We strenghten our own rhetoric by living up to our professed values.  We never really have, so why not try it out?  It’s a lot less costly.  Unless of course you profit from war.  And the resources obtained from conquest. 

We actually could walk away.  As Ms. Chaudhry points out, we really only care about our own soldiers, not the Iraqis.  From the vantage of self-interest, the Iraqis will only kill each other once we’re gone.  We won’t leave because of vested interests, not concern for the people.  But...what if we spent 100 billion in personal renumeration to each Iraqi?  American deaths: 0.  Do you forsee that little experiment in the near future, logical as it may be?  Why not?  Because that investment won’t have a return.

I meant ‘remuneration.’ Sorry.

Oh hello, Kingboy and Stinky Pete. Always nice to see new people.

America’s war on terrorism did not begin in September 2001. It began in November 1979 when Ayatollah Khomeini had seized power in Iran, shouting “Death to America”. 

Then a militant Islamic mob took over the U.S. embassy in Tehran and held Americans hostages for the next 444 days.

In retrospect, the mistake began when Iranians assaulted the U.S. embassy in Tehran and met with no resistance.

Interestingly, a Marine sergeant present at the embassy that fateful day in November 1979 agrees with this assessment. As the militant Islamic mob invaded the embassy, Rodney V. Sickmann followed orders and protected neither himself nor the embassy. As a result, he was taken hostage and lived to tell the tale.

In retrospect, he believes that passivity was a mistake.

The Marines should have done their assigned duty, even if it cost their lives. “Had we opened fire on them, maybe we would only have lasted an hour.” But had they done that, they “could have changed history.”

Standing their ground would have sent a powerful signal that the United States of America cannot be attacked with impunity. In contrast, the embassy’s surrender sent the opposite signal - that it’s open season on Americans. “If you look back, it started in 1979; it’s just escalated,” Sickmann c