No Discounted Transit for Oil

Hail Caeser!, er Chavez!

Posted by Jay Cline on Jan 20, 2006 at 8:52 AM

No dimwit, that’s Bush who’s carrying on like a Dictator.

Chavez is popular, successful and humane.  What have you got to show for yourselves?  The first nation in history to institutionalise torture, a rogue state of WMD users and extremes of wealth and poverty.

Wake up and smell the shit Jay Jay, you’re living in it.

Viva Hugo Chavez.!  He is a real Man.  A real leader.

He has a bigger dick than Dubya too probably.

Posted by Rabbit on Jan 20, 2006 at 9:38 AM

Spoken like a true fish with a hook…

Posted by Jay Cline on Jan 20, 2006 at 9:56 AM

What was that worm?

Is the hook in your nook?
Does it hurt where you poop?
Then you’d better not look
I’m not a fish but a CHOOK.

Posted by Rabbit on Jan 20, 2006 at 10:22 AM

Anyway Jay

Rabbit would just like to say, he is somewhat glad for you.  You are a good troll, and the rabbit doesn’t always show much kindness to you.  Now that we are alone here, Rabbit extends his gratitude for gracing the pages of ITT with your fine antics. 

You see it had not occurred to the rabbit that there could be anything worse than Jay, but since meeting Tiny Shrew, it is obvious that there are whole categories of moronic of which the rabbit had been blissfully unaware. 

Tiny Shrew is furthermore, almost the opposite of Jay in the way she fills up a thread with mindless drivel, and frankly your mindless drivel is much more original and mature than the Shrews.

In short Shrew is an Idiot.  Shrew is a broken troll.

Jay is not an idiot.  Jay is a perfectly good troll.

As always Lumens is blessed, as are you to have such as Luminous Beauty to pay special attention to you.

Well Rabbit would love to stop and play, but he must pull out a boat and go away, to home to bed, its late and time to rest his fluffy head. 

Now Jay can wack the Rabbit in his absence, if he would like a special reply from Rabbit for him when next he comes by.

...................^^....................

Posted by Rabbit on Jan 20, 2006 at 10:33 AM

Great interview!

I guess isolating a leftist leader and preventing any positive PR about Venezuela in the States is more important than helping the most needy Americans get to work and pay their heating bills.  They might start to expect their government to actually be concerned about their well being.

There are those critical of Chavez who like to cliam that he is a dictator in waiting.  Note the similarities between the steps that lead to that charge and Pres. Bush’s actions in embracing a strong executive.

Chavez—questionable independence of the judiciary
Bush—want no judicial review of his actions and expects Justices to use “restraint”

Chavez—creates state media outlet to combat his enemies who own the private press
Bush—hostile to independent media and largely plays to a prescreened audience with prescreened questions

Chavez—wnats more power and discretion to implement social reforms
Bush—wants more power to run the war and fast-track trade authority

A strong executive and the absence of an independent judiciary are the symptoms of a dictatorship, see Africa.

Posted by oliver cromwell on Jan 20, 2006 at 1:06 PM

A Neo-Liberal Tale:

Don Diego was visiting the Estancia of his dear friend, Don Guillermo.

“Guillermo, what a fine hacienda you have, with so many rooms and servants.  A Mercedes and a BMW.  Such fine fields and orchards, and a swimming pool, tambien!  You must tell me how you came to be a man of such magnificient wealth.”

Don Guillermo led his companion out to the veranda and waved his arm out to encompass the spreading vista of the valley below.

“You see that Dam and the reservior behind it, the power plant, the canals, the plantations of cane and the sugar mill?  All built with a twenty million dollar IMF loan.”  He tapped his own chest, “fifty percent commission.”

“Amazing,” said Don Diego.  “What keen and admirable business acumen you possess, mi amigo.  I am very impressed.”

After a comfortable and respectable time had passed, Don Guillermo decided one day to return the visit of his friend.  As he steered the beamer through the grand styles of the extensive Rancho where Don Diego made his home, he was immediately struck by the grandeur and expansiveness of his holdings and when he finally came near the end of the long, long drive and spied the approaching hacienda, he was stunned by its size and ostentation.  Three Mercedes, one an SUV, two BMWs and a helicopter!

“Amigo!” said Don Guillermo as the butler ushered him onto Don Diego’s broad patio. “You have truly become like a king among men. I have known you when we were young students and we could not rub two colones together between us.  I must know what great feat you have since accomplished to have risen to such mighty stature.”

Don Diego pointed to the valley lying below his home.  There lay a dry and dusty expanse of brush and scrub with a sluggish trickle of a stream meandering through the empty landscape.

Don Diego pointed to himself. “Fifty million dollar loan.  100% commission.”

Posted by luminous beauty on Jan 20, 2006 at 1:23 PM

You guys just don’t understand how threatening these South American leaders really are! It’s not just the leaders—-it’s the people behind these leaders! These guys are really popular! And God knows (if W. informed him) that those people are being led into the dark den of communism, via democratic socialism. They’re nearly indistinguishable forms of government that are out to get us, because we know in our hearts, even if our minds won’t tell us, that people who speak for working people and think that the well being of producers is a priority, are evil.

By the time these people realize that they’ve been led into the dark den of communism, it will be too late. Chavez and (I think) Lula have both suggested taxing weapons and putting the money in a fund for starving people. Anyone with half a brain knows that that will only create more starving people, because they will have no incentive to eat.

And, by the same logic, oil not sold at a sufficient mark up will lead to people who have no incentive to work overtime to pay for their oil. The people will also not have the incentive to economize so that they can make substantial sacrifices for heating oils. See how that works? Discipline just flies out the window. Next, these people will be looking for other handouts like government subsidized lottery tickets. And the taxpayers who pay for these and other frivolities are somehow never the people who benefit from subsidies, and the people who benefit from subsidies are somehow never taxpayers.

These near-communist rat bastards are trying to cut the invisible hand off of the invisible bodies that have gotten filthy rich on it.

Posted by wileywitch on Jan 21, 2006 at 6:51 PM

Not to mention those damn redskin injuns in Bolivia who think they can grow cocaine where ever just because of their stinkin’ heathen religion.

Posted by luminous beauty on Jan 21, 2006 at 8:06 PM

We must have regime change in South America to get rid of their socialist leaders. That will teach them not to vote for people who think that their leaders matter more to them than to us.  It’s the free market that makes the measurably most out of the peasantry and herbal plants—-not the unwashed masses where their clear lack of refinement. 

Uppity peasants.

The gospel of Supply Side Jesus is all they need.

Posted by wileywitch on Jan 21, 2006 at 9:33 PM

Such wonderful things Chavez has done for the poor people of America!  And he provides magnificent play areas for the poor children of Venezuela, too.  NYT has the <a href = “http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/22/international/americas/22venezuela.html”>story</a>.

Unfortunately, Venezuela is falling apart.  Not only are the roads and bridges failing, the maintenance budget for the highway system has been cut, to pay for the fuel subsidies in the USA, I suppose. 

After the corruption and inefficiency of the Soviet Union led to its collapse, you might think that people could observe and learn.  You would be wrong.  The stupidity of socialists is boundless.  Next I suppose that Chavez will start executing kulaks.

<a >Investors are leaving</a>, and investment is falling rapidly, at a time when Chavez finds plenty of money for weapons and subversion in Latin America, and donations of oil to Cuba. 

Where will it all end?  Venezuela and Russia are flying high at this time because of high oil prices.  But oil prices are remarkably unstable, and high oil prices have always been followed by lower, or very much lower, oil prices.  New demand from China currently defines the demand side of the supply-and-demand equation, but China is becoming as corrupt and inefficient as the Soviet Union was.  How is Venezuela going to pay the bills when their income slows, when they cannot pay their bills now?  Problems, problems, problems.

Posted by scorp on Jan 21, 2006 at 9:55 PM

Sorry (‘bout that, I mean.)

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/22/international/americas/22venezuela.html

http://www.investors.com/editorial/IBDArticles.asp?artsec=20&artnum=3&issue=20060120

Posted by scorp on Jan 21, 2006 at 10:00 PM

And when do we learn? When China calls in the debts? At least Venezuela is leaning on a resource, we’re living on credit.

Posted by wileywitch on Jan 21, 2006 at 11:53 PM

Hey Bugs Bunny,

Since Hugo Chavez is your hero, why don’t you just move to Venezuela?  ... especially since you hate America.

Posted by tina1 on Jan 22, 2006 at 4:05 AM

WW -

Lagomorph states right up front that he does not know anything about economics, but that does not stop him from making weird comments on economic matters.  Now you are doing the same thing.  What is it about you leftists that makes you so totally obtuse and irresponsible?

Please keep the following scenario in mind when talking about economics and Venezuela.  One person finds $200 laying on the street.  Another person wins $200 in the lottery.  Another person has a steady job and puts aside $200 a month in savings and investment.  Each of these people are up $200 this month.  Where will each of them be in ten years? 

Venezuela is a current winner in the oil lottery, but has essentially ended investment and maintenance in its oil and civil infrastructure.  Where will Venezuela be in ten years?

You leftists are wont to credit FDR with the economic recovery after the Great Depression.  This.  Is.  Nonsense.  At the time of FDR’s first election in 1932, unemployment was 23%.  In 1936, at the time of FDR’s second election, unemployment was still over 20%.  In 1940, at the time of FDR’s third election, unemployment was still over 16%. 

After Pearl Harbor in December 1941, during the first six months of 1942, the USA wrote purchase orders for war materiala that equalled over 100% of GDP.  The national debt during WWII maxed out at nearly 150% of GNP.  At the start of WWII, the unemployment rate rapidly dropped to 2%. 

All those working people were paying taxes and buying stuff with their paychecks.  After WWII, did anyone starve to pay off the astronomical war debts?  Hell, no.  Continued economic activity resulted in continued tax revenue streams that paid off the war debt.  Killing nazi terrorists and Japanese militarist terrorists was a good investment with an excellent payout, besides saving freedom and our way of life.  We now understand that free trade and reduced bureaucracy, particularly reduced socialist bureaucracy, is an even better investment.

There is no chance that China will call in the debts, as you put it.  Chinese currency is virtually worthless without the backing provided by the Chinese reserves of American debt instruments.  If China cashed in, the worst thing that would happen in the USA would be that the price of stuff in Wal-Mart would go up slightly, and we would have to buy stuff from South Korea and the Philippines instead of China. 

Meanwhile, trade and exports are now providing tens of millions of jobs to the Chinese people, and those jobs would end.  The Chinese leadership’s worst nightmare is unrest in the ranks; Chinese empires invariably fall when the people get too upset. 

China has major problems, and USA debt instruments provide a cushion against those problems.  If you have been paying attention (a thought I do not credit, but I will try anyway), one of the biggest problems the Chinese have is pollution, such as the benzene spill in the Songhua River near Harbin.  Pollution is a growing irritant for the Chinese people throughout the country, where untreated coal smoke is a result of massive energy production.  Where is China going to get the technology to solve the pollution problems that threaten social stability?  From the USA, the world’s leader in that type of technology?  But that is sort of the object ot the game, isn’t it?

Keep the comments coming.

Posted by scorp on Jan 22, 2006 at 11:43 AM

scorpy,  I wouldn’t be throwing around aspersions about people’s attentiveness.  Glass houses, y’know. 

The article about Venezuela’s lower foriegn investment is an artifact of Venezuela paying off its international debt.  Actual current investment is up, but no IMF or WB loans; internal financing only.  Venezuela’s private banks are doing quite well even though GDP is down to only 9% from 17%.  Chavez’ land reform has been very careful and judicious in spite of strong public pressure to move more quickly.  Exxon is small potatoes.  The bit about ‘ruffians’ nearly overrunning a ‘not that exclusive’ country club is an amusing tale of bourgeois paranoia.

Chavez didn’t build that bridge, but the local government is dealing with it, and the coastal roads are getting repaired.  Impacted commerce and local populations are getting relief.  Compare to New Orleans.

China is opening markets all over the world, becoming less and less dependent on US consumerism.  There is a growing environmental movement in China to which the government is actually responding positively, as glacial as it may seem. 

Technology is not something of which the US can claim exclusive possession or dominance, any more.  Exxon does not have any corner on expertise in petroleum production.  The US is lagging way behind Asia and Europe in developing alternative energy technologies.  Canada is more serious than the US.

No one is as stupid and blind as you would like to believe in order to prop up your megaloid delusions.

Posted by luminous beauty on Jan 22, 2006 at 12:55 PM

scorp - You make an excellent point.  FDR’s social programs didn’t get us out of the Depression.  The wartime economy did; and ever since, the war business has propped up our economy, despite our dismal practices of labor suppression, market fixing, and public subsidy of the corporations that dominate our pseudo-capitalist system.  I could be mistaken, but I believe the arms industry is still the most profitable industry in the world, and we are the world’s leader in weapons manufacture.  So it’s not really our capitalism that makes us rich, but our warlike quality, a deduction which your comment brilliantly evokes. 

Thanks, scorp.  It’s nice to see specks of reason pepper your arguments.

Posted by rocco on Jan 22, 2006 at 2:01 PM

And we’re living on credit. Our dollar is pegged to petroleum. And the petrodollar is on its way out.

How are those tax cuts to the wealthiest 1% working out? Are they comfortable? How nice.

BTW, Scorpy, a couple of things that fueled the economy after WW II was the G.I. Bill, and veteran loans for buying homes. What say you about that little bit of socialism? Working people could afford to buy and/or build new homes. They could go to college and learn the skills that would help to provide a skilled workforce for the technologically advancing economies of the fifties and sixties.

Posted by wileywitch on Jan 22, 2006 at 2:03 PM

Hey broomstick,

YOUR COMMENT >>  “How are those tax cuts to the wealthiest 1% working out? Are they comfortable? How nice.”  >>  SHOWS HOW IGNORANT YOU ARE.

Liberals just spout off this tax cuts for the rich nonsense.  Liberals are too stupid to look at the facts and do a little research on their own, so they just keep repeating each other.  lol ...  lol ...

You liberals claim that you are so smart, yet you can’t even pull up the tax tables to see who pays what ... because if you did, you would then see that everyone got their taxes cut from Bush.  PROVES HOW STUPID YOU LIBERALS REALLY ARE !!!!

LETS LOOK AT SOME FACT BROOMSTICK ....

1)  The Top 1% Pay More Than a Third of All Income Taxes:  34.27%

2)  The Top 25% Pay 83.88% of All Income Taxes

3)  The Top 50% pay 96.54% of All Income Taxes

Hey broomstick, how do you like them apples you ignorant bastard.  lol ....

Posted by tina1 on Jan 22, 2006 at 2:43 PM

Chavez has significantly improved the lives of the majority of people in a country dominated for years by mercantile capitalism. The Neo-cons who criticise him must be as dense as Dick Cheney’s bunker… why do you think he has approval ratings between 70 - 80% throughout Latin America ? The revolution taking place there will last far longer than the rising price of oil.

Posted by Anti-War Conservative on Jan 22, 2006 at 2:56 PM

Tina says… The Top 1% Pay More Than a Third of All Income Taxes:  34.27%

Answer… True, but you fail to mention that they also own 40 -45% of all wealth. In fact Bill Gates wealth alone is more than the bottom 40% of all Americans combined. Looks like someone’s not paying their share… and it isn’t the poor.

Posted by Anti-War Conservative on Jan 22, 2006 at 3:07 PM

To reinforce Anti-War Conservative’s point: 60% of the $1.35 trillion tax cut went to the top 1%.  That means that over 800 billion dollars when to roughly 3 million people.  An average of about $260000 to $270000 a person.  In 2001, I actually got denied my $300 - the letter from the IRS actually told me in so many words that I didn’t make enough money that year to get a refund.

Posted by rocco on Jan 22, 2006 at 3:20 PM

Luminous Beauty leads us to the truth… good points

Posted by Anti-War Conservative on Jan 22, 2006 at 3:20 PM

‘WENT to roughly…’ Jeez.

Posted by rocco on Jan 22, 2006 at 3:21 PM

Harry Belafonte said that 10’s of millions of Americans support Chavez and he was right. What is more surprising is that people who like Chavez are not confined to Hispanics, African Americans, or the Left - but to millions of conservatives like myself who like nothing better than someone standing up to the Neocons and their goal of American empire.

Posted by Anti-War Conservative on Jan 22, 2006 at 4:04 PM

If you liberals are so concerned about the poor ... then why don’t you eliminate cigarette taxes and the lottery. 

Who smokes the most? poor people

Who plays the lottery more?  poor people

This simple fact shows that you really don’t care about poor people ... you just like saying that you do.  You liberals are full of shit ...

SMOKING FACTS:
Current smoking prevalence also was higher among adults living below the poverty level* (32.9%) than among those at or above the poverty level (22.2%).

By education level, smoking prevalence was highest among adults who had earned a General Educational Development diploma (42.3%) and lowest among those with graduate degrees (7.2%).

27.6% High School dropouts
42.3% GED
25.6% High School diploma
12.1% Bachlor’s degree
7.2% Master’s degree

LOTTERY FACTS:
In other states there has been criticism that lotteries have targeted low-income people. The lottery in Illinois rented billboards in Chicago’s most blighted neighborhoods with the slogan “This Could Be Your Ticket Out.”  After receiving significant criticism, the ad campaign was dropped.

In Texas, those who play the lottery regualry and didn’t graduate from college spend about $173/month on the lottery ($2,076/year).  Those with a HS diploma spend about $82/month ($984/year).  College grads spend $48/month ... ($588/year) on the lottery.

High School dropouts who play the lottery spend $2,000 a year on the lottery and College Grads who play the lottery only spend about $500 a year. 

** And this is the kicker .... When someone with no HS diploma becomes a lottery winner, they end up broke and bankrupt in less than10 years **

>> William “Bud” Post won $16.2 million in the Pennsylvania lottery in 1988 but now lives on his Social Security.

>> Evelyn Adams, who won the New Jersey lottery not just once, but twice (1985, 1986), to the tune of $5.4 million. Today the money is all gone and Adams lives in a trailer.

>> Suzanne Mullins won $4.2 million in the Virginia lottery in 1993. Now she’s deeply in debt to a company that lent her money using the winnings as collateral.

>> Missourian Janite Lee won $18 million in 1993. Eight years after winning, Lee had filed for bankruptcy with only $700 left in two bank accounts and no cash on hand.

Posted by tina1 on Jan 22, 2006 at 4:33 PM

You, Tina1, are shrill, and your posts look like something that might be computer generated to respond to key words and then go into tirade mode.

You never really address issues in any broad sense. You react, and your reaction is always pretty much the same.

BTW, who says, How do you like them apples?  Are you in the geriatric branch of FreepersAnyonymous?

I am going to adopt you. I am going to learn how to love a troll.  It is not going to be easy, but I hope to learn how to make the most of my broomstick.

Now, Tina Troll, explain to me how tax cuts to the top 1% improved our economy. I challenge you to write this post:

How Tax Breaks for Wealthy Americans Improved the Economy. 

This is not a challenge to write about “liberals”. Everyone knows how you feel about “liberals”. Show us what you’ve got besides derision for “liberals”. Or do you just exist in a perpetual state of not-being-a-liberal? Perhaps you are empty on the inside.

Posted by wileywitch on Jan 22, 2006 at 4:33 PM

Funny!  I thought we progressives were already pretty much disgusted from the beginning with State Lotteries as the worst kind of regressive taxation.  Worse than sales tax, even.

Thanks to tiny one for letting us know it’s our idea.  I would have never known.

Woooo Boy, wiley!  I wish you well.  teeny one is an untamed one, it is.

Posted by luminous beauty on Jan 22, 2006 at 4:57 PM

wiley - my god, that’s it! It’s computer generated!  tina1 is a robot.  I must be blind. 

They must just go from left-wing discussion group to left-wing discussion group in the hopes of linking people up to their wackjob sites.  Maybe their pay is tied to amount of hits…man, that’s efficiency.  I always have to respect the Machiavellian ways of these guys. 

Empty on the inside indeed.

Posted by rocco on Jan 22, 2006 at 5:02 PM

Now why doesn’t it suprise me that the MOST LIBERAL state have the HIGHEST CIGARETTE TAX.

Nothing like taxing the poor ... the liberals lie ...

So, if a high school dropout in Rhode Island smokes a 1.5 packs a day, he pays about $1500 a year JUST IN TAXES, that doesn’t count the price of the pack ... THAT IS JUST THE STATE TAX.

And then that same person will spend on average about $2000 a year on lottery, so now that person will spend $3500 a year on cig tax and lottery.  Now if we figure the total cost of a pack of smoke in RI.  They are about $6 pack, so we have to figure another $3.50 x 1.5 pack per day.  That is another $2000.

SO THAT PERSON IS SPENDING $5500/year JUST ON CIGS AND THE LOTTERY ....

Ya… you liberals really do care about the poor ...

LIBERAL STATE / CIG TAX PER PACK
Rhode Island $2.46 / state tax per pack
New Jersey $2.40
New York $1.50
Oregon $1.18
Washington $1.42
Vermont $1.19
DC $1.00
Connecticut $1.51
Massachusetts $1.51

Now let’s look at some other states ....
Louisiania .36 cents
Mississippi .18 cents
Kentucky .03 cents
Iowa .36 cents
Georgia .37 cents
Alabama .42 cents
North Carolina .05 cents
Ohio .55 cents
Tennessee .20 cents
Texas .41 cents

Posted by tina1 on Jan 22, 2006 at 5:04 PM

I see broomstick doesn’t have a reply to my facts .. kind of like the Dimwhits ... NO IDEAS ...

lol ...

See, you aren’t as smart as you think. 

lol ... lmao

Posted by tina1 on Jan 22, 2006 at 5:06 PM

Hey broomstick,
Put down the kool-aid and look at the facts.  I know that hard for you, but try.

—————————————

Cutting tax rates equals higher revenues and higher growth

Article by John Blundell in The Business

http://www.iea.org.uk/record.jsp?type=news&ID=278

———-

High taxes

Posted by tina1 on Jan 22, 2006 at 5:24 PM

Tina1 goochie goo, goochie goo, goochie, goochie, goochie goo.

The grown-ups are going to talk later. Go find your gucky.

Posted by wileywitch on Jan 22, 2006 at 6:01 PM

Scorp do you think that state owned oil will run out sooner than privately owned oil?

How does allowing oil reserves to be privately owned benefit the state?

Do you see any conflict of interest between privately owned oil, and people who are heavily invested in oil businesses making energy policy?

Posted by wileywitch on Jan 22, 2006 at 6:05 PM

Broomstick,

I guess you can dispute my post.  Is it over your head?

Why are all of your replys “juvenile”? 

I thought you libs were so smart and wanted to debate ideas ...

lol ...

Going back to my post ... DISPUTE THE FACTS ABOUT TAXES. 

Can you do that?  or should i just expect another juvenile response about a “broken troll” ... lol

Posted by tina1 on Jan 22, 2006 at 6:13 PM

Scorp, the pollution problem China is having, is no different from the pollution problems we were having in the sixties and seventies. The Soviet Union had the same problems too. These are problems of industrialization and large scale agribusiness, not communism, or socialism.

By the time the Potomac river caught on fire, Rachel Carson’s Silent Spring had a following and regulations were being made to keep pollution and the poisoning of our environment from destroying it.

As far as China and their dependence on us as consumers go, that is why China is making friends worldwide and developing other markets. Do you think that the task of finding consumers is enormous? Wouldn’t they be wise to look for consumers in countries whose economy is based on manufacturing, rather than consumerism?

Are you denying that the GI bill and veteran’s home loans had an effect on our economy?

Posted by wileywitch on Jan 22, 2006 at 6:17 PM

see if this works

Posted by wileywitch on Jan 22, 2006 at 6:20 PM

Yes, it works. There’s your gucky. The topic is Venezuela. Can you say that? Vin-i-zway-luh. Go suck on your gucky.

Posted by wileywitch on Jan 22, 2006 at 6:21 PM

GUILTY ... GUILTY ... GUILTY ...

Democratic campaign workers convicted in tire slashing case

Chicago Tribune CHICAGO - Jan. 21, 2006

Four Democratic activists from Milwaukee were convicted of a misdemeanor Friday for their alleged role in slashing the tires of Republican-rented vehicles on Election Day 2004.

The vandalism took place a few hours before the polls opened in Wisconsin, a hard-fought state in the 2004 presidential election. Twenty-five cars and vans rented by the Republicans were crippled, delaying the party’s plan to ferry observers and voters to the polls.

A security guard at the GOP’s office wrote down the license plate of a suspicious car, which led investigators to five young men working for the Kerry-Edwards campaign.

Two of them were the children of prominent Milwaukee Democrats, including former Mayor Marvin Pratt and the city’s current congresswoman, Rep. Gwen Moore.

Felony criminal damage to property, put him in prison for 3 1/2 years.

http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centredaily/news/nation/13675410.htm

Posted by tina1 on Jan 22, 2006 at 6:30 PM

tina1 (if you actually exist, which I’m starting to doubt) - I’ll try my hand at your ‘cigarettes-and-lotto-as-poor-taxes.’

I agree.  So there. 

The tax cuts for the rich is, however, a problem of much greater significance.  And has neither topic has anything to do with Hugo Chavez, as wiley points out.

Posted by rocco on Jan 22, 2006 at 6:34 PM

Chavez isn’t a god, but surely it’s not hard to appreciate the value of the first mestizo leader in Venezuelan history.

Posted by wileywitch on Jan 22, 2006 at 7:14 PM

Poor girl is in Milwaukee and we’re talking about Venezuela.

Posted by wileywitch on Jan 22, 2006 at 7:19 PM

Re Chavez’s flaws: http://us.ft.com/ftsuperpage/superpage.php?news id=fto010520061911042487&utm_source=Google&utm_medium=PPC&utm_campaign=NewsKW

But the ‘liberal’ media always talks about how dangerous Chavez is.  The NY Times just did a story on that bridge thing; and the above Financial Times article of course.  I’ve only heard about the Citgo program from ITT and Chomsky. 

They’re reeeeaally watching Evo Morales.  He better not step outta line…

Posted by rocco on Jan 22, 2006 at 7:29 PM

ya .. whatever.

But how to do you like the fact that we (GOP) own you libs.

White House ... GOP

Senate ... GOP

Congress ... GOP

and now the Supreme Court ... GOP

YOU BE OUR BIATCH ...

LOL ...

Posted by tina1 on Jan 22, 2006 at 7:32 PM

try again: here

New at this html stuff…

Posted by rocco on Jan 22, 2006 at 7:37 PM

help

Posted by rocco on Jan 22, 2006 at 7:37 PM

That’s an awfully long address. Lumens can tell you how to find tiny url’s. I tried it once, so far, and it didn’t work for me, but it apparently does work sometimes.  It looks like you have all the code right.  I’ll see if cutting and pasting works. Small price to pay for an article.

Posted by wileywitch on Jan 22, 2006 at 8:02 PM

tinyurl

Scoll down to the little blue ‘tinyurl’ and drag to your links bar.

Wild I say!  Aren’t white kids cute when they talk in ebonics?
Keep her attention, wiley, while I sneak behind her with the tranquillizer gun.

Posted by luminous beauty on Jan 22, 2006 at 8:27 PM

Good thinking Lumens. She’s a kooky little baby. tina1Kooky baby. Kooky. Kooky. Who’s a kooky baby? Yes you’re kooky.

Lumens and RoccoI read an article recently claiming that only five nations in South America are leftist. Venezuela, Argentina, and Brazil were among them. No wonder the newspapers don’t publish maps anymore.

I’m trying to find some balanced articles about Venezuela and their economic boat. One thing is clear to me, the natives in Venezuela aren’t afraid to say what they want and to voice opposition to particular policies. Much of the changes going on Venezuela appear to me to be geared toward the long run. Whatever anyone in the U.S. may think of him, Chavez is popular with Venezuelans. Why should our opinion about Chavez be more important than the opinions of the people who elected him? 

I wouldn’t mind seeing a literacy movement in the U.S.

Posted by wileywitch on Jan 22, 2006 at 8:49 PM

Am wondering why Venezuela is being treated in our media as some rogue nation where oil is concerned, and why OPEC is not being discussed.

Posted by wileywitch on Jan 22, 2006 at 9:25 PM

How come we never hear about how the US kicked Britain out of Venezuela to use for its own petroleum purposes?  Or that we backed a coup against Chavez - even though Pat Robertson was universally condemned by Repubs and Dems alike - and that coup failed so awfully it even got reported in mainstream press?  Why is there no attempt to learn about Venezuela in any meaningful way?

Posted by rocco on Jan 22, 2006 at 9:35 PM

Who would that benefit, Rocco? When does the MSM ever treat another nation like it was anything but our honey pot or not? Shoot, in geography in grade school memorizing the nation’s resources was second only to finding it on a map. Why?

I know you know. 

I’m beginning to wonder what’s so bad about Castro. I’m sure he’s not a choirboy, but I have to wonder what’s going on when the leader of a country is reviled in our press without any mention of why he is being reviled. It’s like a tradition or something. He’s like the mascot for a rival school.

Posted by wileywitch on Jan 22, 2006 at 10:28 PM

I just asked a friend who is 9 years younger than I am what his impression of Castro was when he was a kid. He said he got the impression that Castro was a militant drug lord, who always had a cigar.

I knew he was communist and we were supposed to think he was evil, but I always wondered why there was never a list of atrocities associated with his name—-something you might expect from someone who embodied evil. It was understood that we were supposed to detest communists.

I knew he was Cuban and associated him with the Cuban missile crisis, but truth be told I’m still confuzed about that. It seems like during the Cold War, the spy thing, and MAD,  and attempts to out bluff each other made capitalists and communists equally absurd and confuzing. 

Looking for articles about Chavez, I found article summaries with descriptions like the devil’s excrement. Like I’m going to take that seriously.

It seems that our nation and media is hooked on rivalry in an old school Cold War mentality that seemed kind of childish to me when I was a child.

Now we’re supposed to consider socialism to be fundamentally unsustainable though most of Europe is socialist. They have their problems, everybody has problems. It’s a human thing.

One of these days, I’m afraid we’re going to miss having allies.

A little off topic, but has anyone heard anything about Saudi Arabia lately? Did they just fall off the map or what?

Posted by wileywitch on Jan 22, 2006 at 10:43 PM

I don’t know much about the government of Hugo Chavez but I know that he is part of a grand wave of electoral victories for the Left in Latin America (LA) which is an indication of the great disapproval of the old neo-liberal model of privatization, globalization, and export-led development that has impoverished so many average Latin Americans.  While the rich mostly benefit from schemes like NAFTA, CAFTA, and the FTAA, most people lose jobs, farm land, income, services, and suffer from expensive imports of formerly domestically provided basic needs and currency devaluation through capital flight.  The early era of import substitution industrialization in LA, which ended in the early 1970s with the global recession and inflated energy prices, saw unprecedented per capita GDP growth and created a great storehouse of value in productive industries and national infrastructure which was later privatized at the behest of IMF stabilization schemes in the 1980s in return for loans and foreign exchange funds to balance the foreign deficits and reduce inflation.  Soon real structural problems reduced the competitiveness of local industry resulting in overcapacity and joblessness.  Foreign markets shrank. Indebtedness suddenly grew. The epoch of neo-liberalism created a great intrusion on the domestic economies of LA by Foreign Transnational Corporations (TNCs) buying up local private and state owned enterprises and cutting employment while taking over the domestic market in manufactured consumer durables.  By 1999, about 36% of all local sales of manufactured goods in major LA economies stemmed from foreign owned subsidiaries of TNCs.  Often these TNCs reduced employment through streamlining, reduced technology transfer buy purchasing local patents then eliminating them, and caused capital flight through profit repatriation.  The LA economies have become the loser as the world economy in general concentrates and skewes income distribution. The current electoral revolt in LA is the result.  Expect to so more!

Posted by cabdriverinchicago on Jan 23, 2006 at 1:13 AM

Jon Smith Subs has an ad: Picture of Castro - Bad Cuban. Picture of Sandwich - Good Cuban.

Okay, so I like that ad.

Posted by rocco on Jan 23, 2006 at 9:15 AM

Hi cabdriverinchicago. I think you hit the nail on the head.

Are you planning on hanging around? If so, welcome. Please do me the favor of not feeding our resident kooky troll, tina1. It’s not good for her. I’m asking for this cooperation as a favor. Check out the threads and you can see what I’m talking about.

If you have links to some in depth stories about LA, please post them here. It’s hard to keep up with the world.

Posted by wileywitch on Jan 23, 2006 at 1:29 PM

Heh Tiny Shrew, Rabbit is quite content living here in Australia, thanks.  Since it is no where nera as fucked up as America, I am not feeling too inclined to want to move just now, but have thought about it.  Maybe if America attacks them I just might decide to go over.  It would be similar to fighting the Fascists in Spain.

Rabbit doesn’t hate America per se.  Rabbit hates what America has become, and he hates most everything America is doing. 

But then so do most people these days, Tiny Shrew.

Posted by Rabbit on Jan 23, 2006 at 7:00 PM

Sorry Scorpy, my dear little prodigal Troll.

Rabbit does not state right up front he knows nothing about economics.  Rabbit has before demonstrated he knows more about economics than the Scorpy, who is full of theory and imaginary ideas backed by fantasy about the real world

Scorpy seems a bit put out that Venezuala has so much oil and gas.  This is obviously a major insult to Americans who believe all the worlds oil and gas is theirs.  To be so churlish as to carry on about them reaping benefits from this oil and gas is very American and also disgustingly hypocritical.

Notice you wank job, that Venezuala is selling THEIR oil at a discounted rate.  They are using THEIR oil to improve the lot of THEIR country which is on it’s knees afetr being sytematically plundered by people like you Scorpy.

They are a democracy, you are not.  They have a humane leader with a clear vison for a future where all his people have a life worth living.  You have none of these things.

You have a dyfunctional president who is in office due to fraud and lies.  His only vison seems to be endless war.

Too bad for you clowns but that is all you’ve got.

Now this story is about your pathetic government blocking the humane and generous gesture of Chavez, once again.  Just because the US government can’t look after it’s citizens, they are not going to let anyone else do so either.

And you losers want to spin it such that Chavez is the bad guy here?  Idiots.

Posted by Rabbit on Jan 23, 2006 at 7:11 PM

Oh and Scorpy

What are you blathering about Venezuala not being able to pay it’s bills?

Have you forgotten that you are living in the USA?

Does Scorpy know what deficit means?

Does Scorpy know what a fiat currency is?

Posted by Rabbit on Jan 23, 2006 at 7:14 PM

Congratulations Wiley You have chosen a Troll.  Rabbit would not have chosen it for you, it is broken after all.

But Tiny Shrew is Wiley’s troll.  This means you must pay special attention to your troll, and if anyone is being especially mean to it you may have to stand up for it’s rights.  These rights are the right to be wacked by sensible and informed people.  The right to spout any and all ridiculous drivel. and the right to be a Troll.

Hooray for Wiley, and Hooray for Rabbit whose own Prodigal troll, Scorpy is returned.  How we love the prodigal ones.

Posted by Rabbit on Jan 23, 2006 at 7:24 PM

Hey Rabbit, it is funny how Americans suddenly have strong opinions about the leaders of countries that were not in the news until now<i>, all of a sudden. Last week, who ever heard of Venezuela? This week, Chavez is the devil’s underwear!

I <i>am studying troll wacking techniques, but I think they would be useless with tina1 because she is more kook than troll. Sure she’s fat, and ugly, and smells funny, but she’s not engaging the way trolls are. She’s more like the town drunk jumping into your taxi and vomiting on your lap, than the town bore backing you up into a corner at a party and impersonating a person who wants to have a conversation.

You know what I mean.

Posted by wileywitch on Jan 23, 2006 at 9:29 PM

What is happening with me and the HTML? Sheesh.

Posted by wileywitch on Jan 23, 2006 at 9:31 PM

YOU BE OUR BIATCH
OMG, Witch!! I think it’s chosen you for its mother! Ewwww!

Anyway, I think it’s kind of cool what Chavez is doing. Me, I tend to look the gift horse in the mouth, but what would Chavez have to gain by offering what he has? Favor with the poor? Our Shrew has pointed out that this would be silly since the rich Republicans own them. So what else could it be? What do you think his motivations are, Witch?

Posted by Pistol Pete on Jan 23, 2006 at 10:05 PM

I think he wants to be a real hero. There are worse callings.

Posted by wileywitch on Jan 23, 2006 at 10:23 PM

Can we just give the Troll litle tidbits Wiley?  Whilst it is an odd and stunted one, is it truly liberal to starve it to death?

Rabbit is reading about “Supply Side Jesus” Thank You, and it would seem consistent with his way.  Which is the point.

Of course ignoring what it is saying, as far as oodles of links, like baby burps bubbling to the surface, is only common sense.  Clearly it has a list of sources it imagines are likely to irritate others here, and is posting these ad-hoc and without regard to context or reason.  These, if anybody has bothered to look are highly slanted rants aimed at a generic group the Tiny Shrew has reppeatedly made clear she mistakenly believes us to belong to.

Posted by Rabbit on Jan 23, 2006 at 10:49 PM

Oh Rabbit! Can we just talk about our baby’s troubles amongst ourselves and try to keep it to a minimum of irresistables?  Nothing too much? I’ve gone through some threads and have seen that baby kooky poo has had entirely too much impact on the quality of discourse among sane adults. 

Of course, we can hardly discuss single-minded, hysterical, sycophantic, brain-washed, propoganda spewing, polarized, idiotic, blow-hard thought processes without tipping our hat, but it would be nice if we didn’t provoke it or rub it’s belly. In fact, it might be a good idea to distill the essence of the kooky poo spout troll so that we can simply refer to the ilk without having to actually touch it.

I’m not telling anyone what to do, of course, I’m asking. I hunger to see a group accomplish a simple thing.

You know what I mean? I wonder how this ilk would do in Venezuela? My guess is that it would be crowned the village idiot, and that people would tease it til it cried. I don’t even want to think about what would be done with the sock puppets.

Posted by wileywitch on Jan 23, 2006 at 11:15 PM

WASHINGTON, D.C.—A top Republican lawmaker said Sunday that the U.S. must explore alternate energy sources to avoid being held hostage by Iran or by “wackos” in Venezuela—an apparent reference to Hugo Chavez, Venezuela’s populist president.

Chavez says foreign oil companies have looted Venezuela.

I believe Reagan started the practice of calling other world leaders “looney tunes”, and such. Though I’m not one to kow tow to authority figures, it strikes me as completely unprofessional and plain wrong for this to be a common practice. A senator making a veiled remark about Chavez. Who is letting these people roam freely among the population? They apparently have no couthe.

Not to mention that Venezuela is our third largest supplier of crude. Are we going to pretend that we’re going to change our habits and suddenly develop alternatives? Do our leaders even stop to consider what they are saying before they open their mouths? Either they think that what they say is of consequence or they don’t. They really ought to pick one, and if they don’t think that what they say is of any consequence to us tax paying work horses, then they should stop taking our money and find work more suitable to clowns.

Held hostage. Good grief.

Posted by wileywitch on Jan 23, 2006 at 11:40 PM

One interesting fact in refutation of Tina1’s claims regarding the so called benefits of the Bush tax cuts for the rich is that not only have they not spurred much GDP growth or domestic job creation but they actually have created a greater tax burden on the working poor and middle classes.  While the top 1% have collectively enjoyed billions in tax cuts, others less fortunate have actually seen their effective rates of taxation increase.  According to a study by the Center for American Progress, 41 states have passed state and municiple tax increases.  Most states have seen property taxes on middle class and working families skyrocket, more and more regressive users fees such as tolls are being imposed or increased in most states, and the cost of formerly subsidized services used by average people are increasing in the face of budget cutbacks caused by the tax giveaways to the rich!  While the top ten percent of the population whose income exceeds $200,000 annually recieved tax cuts per household worth, in some cases, over $10,000, the nation’s working families subsidized these massive cuts with a new regressive system that has effectivelyt increased their tax bill in the thousands a year per family.  This is how Bush’s tax cuts “apply to everybody” equally.  In effect, the poor are now carrying the rich in the true sense with no future discernable benefit!

Posted by cabdriverinchicago on Jan 23, 2006 at 11:42 PM

We may have to eat them, cabdriverinchicago. Bet they’re tender.

Posted by wileywitch on Jan 24, 2006 at 12:18 AM

Rabbit met a Chilean in his factory recently.

It should be borne in mind that Rabbit sells Kayaks from his factory, not just through wholesale.  Having sold about 200 alone from the factory direct to the public, you can imagine how many people come wandering through Rabbit’s small factory, mostly on Saturday’s but pretty much all year round.  With the mild Perth Climate, we can do such sports all year round.  The friendly rabbit almost always strikes up a conversation and being an intense Aries this can be turned to his ends within twenty minutes most, including selling a Kayak to them in that time. 

Thereafter has much proselytising for truth, and more recently monitoring of how many already know, been done by a rabbit.

So this south American looking and sounding bloke comes in one day a while ago, and Rabbit asked where he was originally from.  He tells the rabbit he comes from Chile.  Rabbit asked the Chilean if he knew of “Les Chaqi’s” a great south american, mainly Chilean band who have been in Perth for a while.  Of course we did and the hopper mentioned the “Bolivarian Revolution”, and we shared views.  He thinks Chavez is the real deal.  He is also much more moderate towards Fidel, and Rabbit hasn’t ever heard enough to convince him Castro is all that bad either Wiley.  (On a world scale)

The Chilean bloke also said Chavez was like all South Americans, vain.  This he percieved as a weakness, and so it is.

Rabbit observed that Vanity is a part of South American heritage in the way that Hubris is American and “She’ll be right mate”, is Australian. 

They are national weaknesses, maybe, but in the case of Venezuala, not a life or death issue at this time. 

It doesn’t make Chavez a liar a cheat, a greedy, unbalanced sack of hubris, ignorance and Lies.  Nor does it make him an anti-freedom fascist an Oil company puppet or a power hungry insane pretender with a weird messiah complex.

Like another President in that part of the world we all know of.

Posted by Rabbit on Jan 24, 2006 at 12:22 AM

OK Wiley.  It’s your Troll, (sounds good doesn’t it?), if you think that’s best.

Rabbit can see the point of what you say and agree it has been far too disruptive for what little value has been obtained.  There have been some laughs though.

Lot’s of LOL’s in fact.

Tiny Shrew wouldn’t exist in Venezuala.  It takes a certain kind of culture and a deal of technology to produce someone like Tiny Shrew.

Posted by Rabbit on Jan 24, 2006 at 12:26 AM

You Witch you.

Eat them!  ....................^^...................

This is probably not far different from what will probably eventuate.

Posted by Rabbit on Jan 24, 2006 at 12:34 AM

Rabbit - As a citizen of the world, and as a citizen of a country which is largely controlled by US policy, you do have a say. 

But don’t pretend like you know what’s going on here.  Australia is comparable to one of our more western (kooky) states, like Cheney’s Wyoming.

Live here for a bit before criticizing its admittedly brainwashed citizens.  If nothing else, it’s good form.

Posted by rocco on Jan 24, 2006 at 12:37 AM

If nothing else, Chavez’ ability to take Venezuela into his new direction should pretty much make clear whether or not socialist principles have a chance of success in practice, independently of the Soviet model. He’s got a resource that actually carries some clout in the world economy, no empire to spend fortunes controlling, and his most hostile adversary is preoccupied with two wars and a raft of domestic distractions. So, being well-off, confident, popular and relatively unthreatened, he’s now got the chance to show whether what he’s got in mind for his society is worthwhile for-real, or that, in fact, it really isn’t worthwhile at all.

So in addition to Venezuela’s new flag and newly re-named government institutions, Chavez’ Venezuela will also be the new avatar of 21st century socialism. For good or ill, the Chavez revolution will be highly instructive. If anyone pays attention to actual events rather than simply taking an ideological side for or against, that is.

My major concern centers upon how Chavez’ currently unopposable ability to control the country may lead to ever more strings of power being gathered into fewer and fewer hands. How much bloated bureaucracy can Venezuelans look forward to? How much stifling of dissent and political opposition? How much economic distortion?

However, I make no predictions. I’m curious, not clairvoyant. At this point, I prefer to ask questions rather than to supply ill-founded answers.

If the guy thinks he can make a success where before were nothing but failures and externally foisted obstacles, he’s got his chance. I will be very interested to see what goes on in Venezuela over the next decade or so.

Posted by Kuya on Jan 24, 2006 at 2:44 AM

No way Rocco

Since America decided to conquer the world, then America became the business of the wider world.  Our culture is a satellite of yours thanks to Television and Movies and the same media ownership to al;arge extent.  Our government exists as a part of US foreign Policy, it is completely subservient to the US Junta.  This actually gives me and many others including the Canadians, The Brits and just about anybody affected by an awesomely aggressive foreign policy.  That certainly includes the Iraqis.

As for how well Rabbit knows what is going on, there is a thing called the internet which as you would know is very well populated by news and views from America.  It is actually not very hard to know what is going on there.  Rabbit watches the news, mostly he sources the news from the internet though and he is in constant communication with a number of Americans, not least via this site.

It has been commented before that the rabbit is surprisingly well informed about the USA, given the above info it seems hardly surprising.

Now Rocco, how do you gather your information about what is happening in your country?

Did you see New Orleans personally for example?

Or do you perhaps also gather most of your information about the USA from the media also?

It is actually not irrational to suggest that with the advantage of objectivity, it may be even easier for a Rabbit from Oz to see some things about America.  Some Americans have invited rabbit to give his opinion, and have valued it precisely for it’s objectivity. 

Now as said, since we are a part of the empire, we have the same right to criticise the Emperor, his clothes and his entourage.  That’s just the way it is in Rome.

However, Rocco, if at any stage the hopper should say anything which you do not agree with, or you feel he is displaying an ignorance of something which you feel obliged to correct him on, please don’t hesitate a moment to set the Rabbit staraight on this.

Delicate sensibilities and fragile ego’s are definately at risk when the Rabbit hops hard, but criticise the words not his right to utter them, please.

I can see that you have largely granted most of this, but the second part of this clarifies my position I hope, and as said, about what am I wrong? 

Note that Rabbit does always yield to superior knowledge about a subject.  Since the only ones who usually try to tell Rabbit he is wrong are Morons, and since so many snart Americans are usually on the same side as the rabbit, he is confidant that he has a fair handle on what’s going on under the Rabbit’s toes.

Posted by Rabbit on Jan 24, 2006 at 2:44 AM

Hi Kuya

Rabbit is of similar mind to you about Venezuala and Chavez.

I applaud what he is trying to do, and also think that despite many inherited problems they are in a fairly good position to go forward.  The main obstacle I fear for them is US interference, or should I say more.  Another assasination attempt, stirring up and arming the opposition the usual tools of Imperialism.  The fact that the US is tied up in two wars, and maybe soon four wars, is no guarantee the maniacs won’t start another war in South America.  Kuya I think you are giving the Bush team too much credit if you think they are not that stupid.

What the hell is going on with the illegal immigrants streaming across the borders from Mexico?  Does anyone think there is truth to the rumour that Bush has agreed to relinquish California and parts of Texas to Mexico?  Sounds wacky to Rabbit to, but something weird is going on it seems.

We send the Navy out to stop illegal immigrants and then we lock them up in detention camps, for a few years while they are processed.

Posted by Rabbit on Jan 24, 2006 at 2:52 AM

I also fear that Vanity and pride may be Chavez’ achiles heel.  Power corrupts and all that. 

There is always a danger of concentrating power in too few hands, but it is also an old truth that committees are no way to get serious work done.

Time will tell, but certainly there is no excuse for the ranting and threatening and scaremongering being directed at Venezuala or the other members of the Bolivarian Revolution.

Up the revolution.  Down with Imperialist Fascist Pigs.

Posted by Rabbit on Jan 24, 2006 at 2:56 AM

Just feelin’ ornery.  My discourse has been far too civil as of late.

Posted by rocco on Jan 24, 2006 at 7:12 AM

<i>My major concern centers upon how Chavez

Posted by wileywitch on Jan 24, 2006 at 1:49 PM

Oh, curses on my inner editor!

Thank you, Rabbit. Funny you should mention those lols. I’m working on those with an experimental method of reparenting called remote parenting—-I influence her telepathically. She has Kooky Troll Poo Spew Syndrome, or KTPSS, for those who have to carry around the label for the rest of their lives, and she is in need of a personalized program.

Though you may not see me, every time she posts, I’m there. The lols seemed to be the right place to begin because they can be emitted pro-socially. From now on, when you see her lols, bear in mind that I’m tickling her. It is my goal to appropriate her antisocial behavior and piggyback it with positive social interaction.

I would greatly appreciate everyone’s cooperation. 

Kuya, please do me the favor of not feeding our resident kooky troll, tina1. It

Posted by wileywitch on Jan 24, 2006 at 2:15 PM

Broomstick,

You only think you know what is going on….  soon you will understand.  lol…

PS - you libs are fun to play with

Posted by tina1 on Jan 24, 2006 at 9:00 PM

Wiley maybe it is calling for LOL LOLs?

You know. lollies?

Posted by Rabbit on Jan 24, 2006 at 9:05 PM

Note how important it is for her to convince everyone that she is in control—-calling me “Broomstick”, for example. She is also trying to demonstrate special knowledge—- You only think you know what is going on….  soon you will understand. Is she in a white supremist cult that is going to poison water supplies with cyanide? Has she been promised special powers so that she can torture her imaginary liberals in person, a la Abu Graib—-now that liberals are being compared to bin Laden by her favorite pundits?

One can only wonder. Perhaps she is constrained by circumstance to only hint about having knowledge.

Look how much shorter her posts have become. You can see the effects of remote reparenting. I only tickled her a little this time.

She is still insinuating that she is playing. (I haven’t had this much fun since my last pap smear.)

Some backlash is to be expected. We’ll carry on. It’s all part of KTPSS. There is hope. Not as much as rocco has, but hope.

ANYWAY, I’m going to look up this Bolivarian thing, and will be back in a day or so, with hopes of talking more in depth about land reform and other pertinent issues in the South.

Bechtel has given up on it’s lawsuit against Bolivia. The corporation was payed the equivalent of thirty cents. And the Bolivians are not paying for rain water.

Posted by wileywitch on Jan 24, 2006 at 9:50 PM

wiley - I have really tried to relinquish hope as a necessary variable in logical discourse.  Isn’t it ironic that the hopeless appear to have hope?  Do tell, however, whatever you gather re Bolivia.  Very interested.

Posted by rocco on Jan 24, 2006 at 10:14 PM

Ahh ... hope for the hopeless. What a nice sentiment. I approve.

Faith, hope and charity ... or is it love ... and which is the greatest?

Posted by David in Canada on Jan 24, 2006 at 10:59 PM

David, would you say that you’ve been influenced a great deal by the unsung heros of politeness—-Chip and Dale? 

Rocco, gawd, I’ve been reading all day. Haven’t gotten to Bolivar yet. Hope it’s very interesting. The definitions of socialism in the wikipedia aren’t what I expected. Now I’m curious.

I’m pretty sure that Chavez is using Jesuit land reform theology as a model for land reform, by giving land that was not being utilized to peasants for farming. Am wondering what the story is on some shortages that are allegedly due to his policy.

Ironic? Hopeless appearing to have hope? I dunno. I’ll give it a year or so—-see what violence is being done to the poor, and liberals, before I decide if this liberal bashing invective is the prelude to violence that it appears to be.

Posted by wileywitch on Jan 25, 2006 at 1:55 AM

Hmm ... Chip and Dale ... yes. But, even more so by Mac and Tosh, the Goofy Gophers.

Posted by David in Canada on Jan 25, 2006 at 9:42 AM

... and a little research indicates that Chip and Dale weren’t really that polite. I seem to remember Chip smacking Dale around sometimes.

A recurring schtick often mistakenly attributed to Chip ‘n Dale is the characters’ alleged use of politeness: “after you…” “no, I insist, after you!”

Posted by David in Canada on Jan 25, 2006 at 10:14 AM

<b><i>calling me

Posted by Pistol Pete on Jan 25, 2006 at 11:17 AM

RE:  Land Reform

I am not aware of what the policy in Venezuela on land reform, except in so far as it is related to putting more land into production in order to decrease imports of things like soy.

However, land reform (aka redistribution) has many legal roots, including Republicanism and Legal Realism.  Under Republicanism, in a form especially favored by Thomas Jefferson, land is a finite resource that is at the heart of economic well being and as such no one has a right to own more than he can reasonably use.  Land ownership is esential to citizenship and needs to be equitably encouraged.

The Republican view is complemented by the view of Legal Realists that property rights are granted and enforced by the state.  They are social constructs and are not “natural.”  The state giveth and the state can taketh away.  This is, to some degree, captured in US takings laws—although those require “just compensation.”  Under international law, compensation is generally required by states that nationalize land.

Posted by oliver cromwell on Jan 25, 2006 at 2:45 PM

<i>In Germany the series is known as “Ah

Posted by wileywitch on Jan 25, 2006 at 4:21 PM

I hope you don’t feel like I’m picking on you, Dave. I like you. The world needs you gentle souls.

Haven’t done the Bolivar reading yet. Taking a break from the housework.

Posted by wileywitch on Jan 25, 2006 at 9:06 PM

Yeah, I think Dave is right, Witch. Mac and Tosh were the polite ones who always insisted “no, after you…” Chip and Dale were the ruffians who were doing things like giving Donald Duck a hard time and one was usually slapping the other one around for doing something silly. The two are sets are usually confused because the gophers were Warner’s creation and ran around the same time as Disney’s Chip and Dale (although, I think the gophers were actually more popular).

Problem sollllved!! (Two Angry Beavers)
Anybody hear this:
Back to Canada

Posted by Pistol Pete on Jan 25, 2006 at 9:26 PM

I like you too Wiley. Thanks.

Chip and Dale are fine but I like Mac and Tosh better as far as cartoon critters go. Old school Warner Bros. and Disney are perennial favorites for me.

Thanks for the Back to Canada song, Pete. It was truly awful and I am still laughing now.

Posted by David in Canada on Jan 25, 2006 at 10:13 PM

Pertaining to the burning question concerning the animated rodents.

Disney’s animation was absolutely top drawer, all their stuff had georgeous multi-plane, parallax simulating backgrounds and the fluidity of the characters and other moving elements was always exactingly life-like.

On the other hand, WB cartoons were really funny.

Found this ARTICLE on Chavez.  The essay by Marc Cooper is also awful (maybe not as awful as Back to Canada), but the comments section is great.

Posted by luminous beauty on Jan 25, 2006 at 11:12 PM

Quagmire! 

Australia recently re-elected their Conservative leader, John Howard.  Britain re-elected Tony Blair.  The USA re-elected George Bush.  Germany kicked out Schroeder and elected Angela Merkel in a sharp right turn.  Canada just returned the Conservatives to power.  Mad Jacques Chirac is threatening Iran with nuclear weapons. 

BBC is reporting that Afghanistan and Iraq are about the two most optimistic countries in the world.  Americans are overwhelmingly in favor of tapping terrorists

Posted by scorp on Jan 26, 2006 at 6:34 PM

Hi Scorp,

Don’t get too excited.

Canada elected a conservative government but remains a liberal (and socialist) country.

The Conservatives have what is called a minority government, they were elected to 124 seats in a parliament that consists of 308 seats. A majority government would have required 155 seats. So the new Conservative government here is on a pretty short leash. If the opposition parties wanted to they could form a coalition and bring the government down very quickly and we would have another election (something everyone wants to avoid at this time).

Expect cooperation and compromise to be the words of the day.

Posted by David in Canada on Jan 27, 2006 at 10:27 AM

... and in Germany, Merkel had to form a coalition government.

Not exactly a sharp right turn.

Posted by David in Canada on Jan 27, 2006 at 10:29 AM

” And anti-Chavez demonstrations are rocking Venezuela.”

Better check your meds, scorpy.

Posted by luminous beauty on Jan 27, 2006 at 10:46 AM

That is interesting about Afghanistan and Iraq being two of the most optimistic countries.  Like the fellow who fell into the well,  “Of course I’m optimistic, I got nowhere to go but up.”

Posted by luminous beauty on Jan 27, 2006 at 10:58 AM

Mad Jacques Chirac is threatening Iran with nuclear weapons.

Scorp, you are bending and stretching the truth again.

“The leaders of states who would use terrorist means against us, as well as those who would consider using, in one way or another, weapons of mass destruction, must understand that they would lay themselves open to a firm and adapted response on our part,” Mr Chirac said on Thursday in a speech at a nuclear submarine base in Brittany. He named no countries.

“This response could be a conventional one,” he said. “It could also be of a different kind.”

Chirac threatens nuclear response

He named no countries.

Maybe he was threatening the USA?

You know how those cheese eating surrender monkeys hate America.

Posted by David in Canada on Jan 27, 2006 at 2:28 PM

Here’s something interesting.

The firewall on this computer just told me there was a port scan attempt within a couple of minutes of that last post. I did a backtrace and it turns out the DoD Network Information Center was trying to do the port scan.

Posted by David in Canada on Jan 27, 2006 at 3:14 PM

A little research and it seems that lots of people have the same thing happening.

Here is what one guy said on a forum discussing it ...

But they’re not at all likely to use their own IP’s to target a surveillance… that would be sort of like staking out a drug suspect by parking a marked Sheriff’s van in their driveway and having a deputy sit on the roof with a Nikon

.... and another comment ....

Either that or it’s a hacker using a spoofed IP.

I’m not worried. Nothing to hide. But it is interesting.

Maybe I will post this information on the FBI, DoD, NSA: All Spying on You thread.

Posted by David in Canada on Jan 27, 2006 at 3:33 PM

DoD Network Information Center was trying to do the port scan

Ummm…guess I better dust out my PC for visitors and reenforce my firewall.

Posted by Pistol Pete on Jan 27, 2006 at 4:32 PM

What firewall do you use, David? If you don’t mind my asking…

Posted by Pistol Pete on Jan 27, 2006 at 4:39 PM

Well, since the president has proclaimed his liberty to spy on citizens, it’s not too surprising. It’s always the last person you would think of—-like a Canadian—-who isn’t a citizen; but that’s the point, isn’t it? Who would guess a Canadian? No one would guess a Canadian, and that’s what makes you’re suspect David. What are you trying to hide with your firewall? We have reasons not to suspect you, and that makes you dangerous.

Posted by wileywitch on Jan 27, 2006 at 5:40 PM

Right now I am using the Sygate Personal Firewall software but may have to look for another as it has been discontinued and isn’t being updated/supported anymore.

Any suggestions for another ‘free for personal use’ firewall?

I have a friend who is a software developer and will ask him and his co-workers what is good to use these days.

Posted by David in Canada on Jan 27, 2006 at 5:53 PM

Wiley,

I have nothing to hide and nothing to fear.

As Liberal said on the <a href=“http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/discuss/2474/”> thread :

I am not fearful of government intimidation, I wear it as a badge of honor that I am so alarming to the powers-that-be that they feel the need to monitor my behavior.

I feel the same way.

Posted by David in Canada on Jan 27, 2006 at 6:11 PM

I think the government is frightful.  But I’m glad you’re not worried.

I don’t have anything to hide, but that doesn’t really make any difference, does it?  I can only wonder how many people are pouring through how much data from how many people, for what?! And do they get health benefits?

I hope they use AOL and Internet Explorer—-they deserve that combination.

Posted by wileywitch on Jan 27, 2006 at 8:58 PM

Hi all.

Scorpy you are a crack up as usual.

To mention those other issues is rubbing salt in the wounds.  The evil NWO government fronts we have been forced to endure by the many who are decieved and dumbfounded by the TV and compliant media.  Read propaganda organs. 

But it proves nothing except our enemies are defined within certain juntas, which seem to control the overarching political structures in the enforoced (by the media) two party systems in each case.

This bit is hilarious though and Rabbit shouts HOORAY for the Scorpy he has done it again, reduced so much irony into a single sentence or two and thus shown he is the darling of all literary clowns.  A Jester or anti Jester, in essence.

<i>BBC is reporting that Afghanistan and Iraq are about the two most optimistic countries in the world.  Americans are overwhelmingly in favor of tapping terrorists

Posted by Rabbit on Jan 28, 2006 at 10:53 PM

In return Rabbit offers a song called Lies.

Funny Song about Iraq.  Hear it to the end, it starts to hurt a bit then gets suddenly funny, somehow.  Maybe Rabbit has a sick sense of humour.

Rabbit suggests that this is the most concise and honest account of the Modern History of the Middle East from an international perspective.  Get at least this much understanding under your belt before even suggesting you have any ideas worth repeating on any forum.

Posted by Rabbit on Jan 28, 2006 at 11:30 PM

Hey, Rabbit. It’s so easy to bear other peoples’ pain, isn’t it?

I’ve been looking through articles about Chavez and Bolivarism. Some searches turned up the same three articles published in a whole slew of different periodicals. I took a break from my computer for a while. Haven’t found a gold mine of information about Chavez and Venezuela, or Chavez and Bolivar.

I guess, growing up with radical individualism makes it a little difficult for me to embrace Bolivar’s ideal society, because it puts the society before the individual. That said, I can see how the need for security in a society that is in chaos—-like Iraq is now——would make radical individualism….what’s the word? Inappropriate? Not a priority? Security is important—-not absolutely, because absolute security doesn’t exist—-if most of a society is being traumatized by violence, though, then I think security may be more important than individualism at that time.

With that in mind, being carpet bombed is not beneficial to a society.

The primary issue, I think, for me as an American, is that I don’t think the U.S. government should be telling world leaders how to run their countries, especially when those leaders were popularly elected in a fair election. We speak as if we were idealists for everyone, but I know that’s bull. Our interests which are primarily corporate interests is what determines which leaders we consider to be “legitimate”. And the media lies and distorts terribly. 

Most Americans don’t bother to ask themselves why the leader of a country we didn’t hear about until now, is suddenly so important. The assumption that we are the arbiters of truth is not well supported outside our media.

It’s a weak post, I know. I’m very lazy lately.

Posted by wileywitch on Jan 29, 2006 at 12:13 AM

That’s alright Wiley.  This bit alone, is a brightly shining and rare gem.

<i>The primary issue, I think, for me as an American, is that I don

Posted by Rabbit on Jan 29, 2006 at 8:42 PM

Hi wiley,
This is a delayed answer, but I don’t remember feeding tina1. She’s yours, dearie. Actually, when I’ve written to her she doesn’t reply, so apparently I’m persona non grata with her.

o my aching heart…

...kidding.

;-)  peace be witcha.

Posted by Kuya on Feb 2, 2006 at 1:16 AM

Rocco wants her.

Posted by wileywitch on Feb 4, 2006 at 2:10 AM

Rocco has strange tastes.

Neveretheless Wiley, Rabbit feels that you have done good work with the broken troll, and you have certainly qualified for a better troll whenever one pops up.  You should however be sure Rocco will care for Tiny Shrew, he doesn’t seem overly Empathic if you know what I mean.

Not that one can truly empathise with a Moron or a Troll, who could? but just empathising with the suffering, fear and confusion which belongs to a fearful and reactive creature, like a Tiny Shrew.

Don’t sell your troll short.

Rocco can always find his own, and besides he is treating the rabbit as a pretend troll at the moment and thereby honing his skills.  He doesn’t need his own troll, his own personality has an inbuilt mechanism which supplies the needed release trolls afford the rest of us.

ie: What we do to trolls, he does to himself.

Does Wiley think it is wise of the Rock to provoke the hopper just for the fun of it?  It’s kinda kinky that he has similar issues with you and I, for he is an avowed sceptic, in ignorance, of Astrology.

Posted by Rabbit on Feb 4, 2006 at 3:36 AM

I have found an interesting site, Rabbitarmac, on strategies for encounters with wing-nuts. OH, I’m up too late and want to stroll around all the haunts tonight. Get behind and it’s nearly impossible to catch up.

Good day, and good night.

Posted by wileywitch on Feb 8, 2006 at 1:28 AM

I have to wonder if he’s a Scorpio.

Posted by wileywitch on Feb 8, 2006 at 1:31 AM

The Rock is an Aquarius.

Posted by Rabbit on Feb 8, 2006 at 8:23 PM

Heh Wiley

Despite trhe hopper being less than evryday type active in Cyberoz, yet it is the home ground of he who hops.  Don’t go further than you are within a day or two’s call of the Field.  Rabbit cares too much for the Witch to lose contact, yet he understands the need to move on and or past such as these fields.

Be not lost to your friend the Rabbit, for he loves both Wiley and the handgun of the rock of the lord.

Posted by Rabbit on Feb 11, 2006 at 2:51 AM