For a couple of klieg-lit days in rainy West Virginia, we were reminded—once again—that the dark and hidden project of coaxing coal from the earth remains a deadly business. The January 2 nightmare of Tallmansville added 12 victims to history’s mountain of slain miners. Tallied as regrettable isolated incidents, these deaths were in many ways predictable fallout from corporate profit pressures… return to article
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Reader Comments (31)Page 1 of 1 pagesBut doesn’t the author understand that ANY intervention by the government into the affairs of the PERFECTLY efficient private is socialism (rolleyes)? This article hits the nail on the head by demonstrating that unbridled capitalism jeporadizes the fabric of society in pursuit of the almighty dollar. Appropriate government regulation is the key to maintaining a healthy and porsperous society. Noone benefits by working in such dire and dangerous working conditions. It seems things haven’t changed much in the past century with respect to workers’ rights. progress was made in the 30s and 40s, but since then the interests of the robber baron have reverted America back to the early industrial era period when workers were not seen as people needing care but depreciable assets that could be replaced when no longer useful.
Also, this article points out along with the Katrina disaster, that government disinterest in the welfare of its citizens lead to deaths that could have been prevented. Only government can protect the citizens of New Orleans and the miners of West Virginia. These disasters could have prevented or at least mitigated if a government with the right priorities was in charge.
Posted by Liberal on Jan 25, 2006 at 6:22 PM Each year, more than 6,000 workers die
This implies that about 10 times more people die from car accidents on the highway than while working. One might wonder what an “acceptable” number of deaths might be. . .
George Will (yeah, i know lots of you hate him or his opinions, but read on) once wrote an interesting opinion piece about lost luggage on airplanes. While it is possible to design a system that never loses a bag, the cost would be prohibitive. I would imagine the same calculus needs to be applied to workplace safety. . .
Posted by wolf on Jan 25, 2006 at 9:38 PM Government intervention is fine, but unfortunately the government here in WV is (covertly) owned by coal companies.
Government, on the federal level, is owned by other corporations.
I’d like to have a viable solution that overides the corporate ownership of government, which can then deal with the tragedy, as happened, here in my home state of WV.
Posted by robin on Jan 26, 2006 at 12:27 AM Why is the liberal answer to everything more government?
Posted by think4yourself on Jan 26, 2006 at 1:22 AM Socialism: any of various social systems based on shared or GOVERNMENT OWNERSHIP and ADMINISTRATION of the means of production and distribution of goods.
Webster
Posted by think4yourself on Jan 26, 2006 at 1:26 AM Why don’t magazine writers have to cite their sources? I’d love to know from where some of these statistics were taken. One of the most egregious errors: mining is not “the second most perilous sector of the economy.” According to the 2004 Census of Fatal Occupational Injuries (conducted by the U.S. Department of Labor, Bureau of Labor Statistics), Construction, Transportation, Agriculture, Manufacturing, and Wholesale Trade have more (in some cases nearly 10 times more) fatalities annually than Mining does. Also, Agriculture is not the most perilous industry; Construction is, followed by Transportation.
Other times the facts are correct but then bungled. How convenient not to mention deaths due to black lung have declined sharply in the past three decades, or that the “frail, discolored retirees” more than likely worked in the mines before safety regulations were improved drastically.
Of course, I’m not saying safety regulations don’t need further improvement, or that the deaths of all these workers were not tragic. I’m saying if you’re going to present a solid argument, you better get it right, instead of being sensationalist.
Posted by On Ones Tod on Jan 26, 2006 at 1:27 AM So is the liberal answer for all cities and hazardous jobs to be owned by government so less people will die?
Posted by think4yourself on Jan 26, 2006 at 1:40 AM FASCISM: The merger of the government with corporations.
Think4yourself, the premise of the article is that a decrease in federal regulation and resources for the federal agencies in charge of enforcing safe workplace conditions led to the recent mine disasters. Neither I nor the author I believe, are calling for the abolition of private mining companies. Talk about extrapolation.
What would you do then think4yourself, DECREASE governmental oversight? How would that improve the situation? Conservatives have a paranoid fear that government cannot do anything right. That is false, when government is stewarded properly. The deaths of the miners present a prime example of how private enterprise does not lead to more efficient economic activity. Conservatism led to the deaths of the miners. It is time to give liberalism a chance.
Posted by Liberal on Jan 26, 2006 at 1:57 AM Why is this site such a goddamn magnet for freepers and why oh why do the intelligent, bipedal, tool-using readers of this site waste their time responding to them?
Just asking.
Posted by opeluboy on Jan 27, 2006 at 2:24 AM opeluboy - is anyone who does not subscribe to the leftist agenda a freeper? Do you think that debate is a waste of time? Personally, i like the back and forth, at least until it becomes overwhelmed with personal attacks (which happens all too frequently here, which is why i post infrequently thesedays).
Perhaps the problem is that some people take their politics far too seriously?
Posted by wolf on Jan 27, 2006 at 5:15 PM I have no problem responding to or debating people who have different viewpoints than my own. In fact, I welcome it. It allows me to coherently organize my thoughts and recognize where my deficiencies lie. The Internet is the last remaining medium through which regular people can have genuine discussions.
Posted by Liberal on Jan 27, 2006 at 5:36 PM Wolf and liberal, I am not against debate, freedom of speech or even infrequently talking to a Republican, if it can’t be avoided. But far too much space is taken up on this blog by people who come here simply to repeat Limbaugh and Hannity’s talking points. No amount of debate and no amount of provable facts will alter their boorish, moronic opinions. That is because the opinions they express are not even their own. They are simply parroting the right-wing propaganda they have swallowed like so many cheap, male hookers at a Greyhound bus staion.
Go ahead and waste your time responding to them. Nothing you have ever written (or will write) has had the least effect on them. They are mindless, conscienceless and a destructive force in this country and the world. We are paying daily for their willful ignorance, ignorance that they wear as if it were the Congressional Medal of Honor.
You may still falsely assume that this all comes down to differences in philosophy. It sounds as if you do. I am old enough to remember when that was an apt description of politics. That is no longer the case. We are in a fight for the very soul of this country. It has very literally become life and death. How else would you describe endless war? These people worship the very thought of it.
If you think that is a matter for little chats back and forth with the enemy, a real enemy that wants to take this country back to the Dark Ages, and slaughter millions of innocents world wide, have at it.
I have better things to do.
Posted by opeluboy on Jan 28, 2006 at 2:10 AM I know, I know opeluboy. Ignoring them doesn’t make them go away either. It is the posting itself that does it for them, I think. Freeper posts are graffiti. They don’t even try to argue. Haven’t you noticed? We’re not dealing with reason, or any facsimile of reason. They aren’t going to go away.
They are simply exploiting something that liberals tend to be proud of—-recognizing freedom of speech to a ridiculous and totally unnecessary fault. It is a real weakness and it is being exploited.
I know some liberalesque people will come back and say that that is really a strength. Think away—-just try not to fool yourselves into believing that you are being a good influence, or showing a kindness that will be appreciated, or even recognized. It’s not going to teach them anything. They don’t want to learn anything from liberals. They want to hate someone, and nothing you say is going to stop them.
As long as they are not opposed, the liberal bashing bullies will escalate, probably with the assumption that liberals won’t fight back. And who can say they’re wrong when most liberals truly are too open minded to take their own side in an argument?
Posted by wileywitch on Jan 28, 2006 at 5:34 AM Wileywitch, you should be happy to know that I am one of those liberals that DO fight back and defend my argumnets. I joined this board last summer and had some good back-and-forth with various conservative posters. I am confident in my perception of the world and do not back down when it is challenged.
Posted by Liberal on Jan 28, 2006 at 8:44 PM Liberal, I have yet to see a “good back-and-forth” between liberals and neocons (I won’t call them conservatives, they’re not) on this board. Not once. All I see are pathetic jerks like Tina1 who come here to spew hate, propaganda and trumpet their boundless ignorance and cute little barbed follow-ups from the regular readers. If you really believe that is having a debate and that something is being accomplished by responding to an imbecile deaf and blind to any sort of reason, logic or morality, I certainly do not want to silence you. It’s your own time you are wasting.
My mantra: Trying to teach a pig to sing is a waste of time and it annoys the pig.
Posted by opeluboy on Jan 29, 2006 at 1:05 AM Opel,
There is nothing to gain if you only read and watch what you believe to be true.
I also love how you have spent so much time spewing your hate of the “neocon” trying to convince other readers that it is the “neocon” that hates. So, keep up the name calling.
And just because someone is not a socialist does not make them part of the Christian Colalition.
I think both leading parties in the US are being lead by the extreme elements of their respected parties; the evangelical right, and the socialist left. One wants to control your private life, the right, and the other your wants control of your money, the left. Both just want more controll and power.
I started posting on this site after Hurricane Katrina and all the BS that the socialist/communists were spewing was getting crazy. Especially when the lies about what was going on, HERE in the US, were being distorted by a rabit that makes boats in OZ. And when I called him on it, he did what Opel did, call me a name and said I was a neocon. Then he said “but it was on FOX news so you got to believe it”.Oh, I also liked when Liberal tried to tell me that New Orleans could not use the school buses to evacuate people because of the weight of the adults would be to much for the buses shocks to handle. Liberal also said that the drivers of said buses could not drive them with their current license, again because of the weight of the adults.
Now that is some funny liberal BS right there!
So back to my first question, Why is the liberal answer to everything more government?
thinky
Posted by think4yourself on Jan 29, 2006 at 3:11 AM I find this an interesting thread..I come from a line of coal miners…some who lived a long life, some who died in their primes.
Did you happen to notice the ages of the coal miners who died? They were very close to retirement, these 50 to 65 year old guys. I’ve heard a few Americans waxing nostalgic about the efforts of the old doomed miners to preserve the young….so poignant.
The old workers were the tenured , indentured company lackies..they fought for the right for men to work the coal underground against an increasingly automated system.
Because, these union workers do fight against automation.
There are more issues at stake here than mine safety….or the ongoing enslavement of our young, and our shame about this reality… how about this one:
why do we work for fools gold, for so long?
Posted by minerva on Jan 29, 2006 at 3:57 AM Now you come from a long line of coal miners, Minerva?
Was your mother a coal miner? Did they meet on the sea?
Posted by wileywitch on Jan 29, 2006 at 9:01 AM Workers at the non-union Sago mine knew the facility was unsafe, but were afraid to speak out, according to the son of one of 12 miners killed in the underground explosive accident there on Jan. 3. But while John Bennett said his father and the other miners were afraid to discuss the mine’s problems, AFL-CIO officials and federal reports counter that Sago, in rural West Virginia’s traditional coal mining area, was an extremely troubled mine. And a list published by Bush’s Mine Safety and Health Administration shows it dumped several rules four years ago that could have bettered safety at Sago.
The accident at Sago killed 12 miners underground and left a 13th in the hospital in critical condition. Lethal carbon monoxide was measured at three times the levels a person can safely breathe for a maximum of 15 minutes before succumbing. In the past two years, federal MSHA inspectors cited the Sago mine, whose present owner bought it two months ago, more than 270 times for safety violations. Many were serious—such as collapsing roofs, faulty tunnel supports, inadequate ventilation and dangerous accumulation of flammable coal dust.
“My dad would come home at night and tell me how unsafe the mine was,” John Bennett said during an early morning interview on NBC’s Today Show. His father, Jim Bennett, was among the 12 dead. John Bennett said the miners “can’t speak out about (safety problems) because the United Mine Workers is not protecting the workers anymore. We have no protection for the miners.”
But that statement does not reflect that Sago is non-union.
And UMWA President Cecil Roberts called the mine management’s failure to tell miners about conditions and violations at Sago “inexcusable,” the Associated Press reported.
Emphasis added. Was it fun calling the dead men lackies? Did you have a good time blaming the dead?
Does having any earthly idea of what you are talking about ever play into your decision to post something? I have a really hard time believing that you are an adult.
Posted by wileywitch on Jan 29, 2006 at 11:15 PM For about 15 years I lived approximately 4 miles from the Sago mine.
These were hard working men, living in a place where there are few other choices to make a living. Education has nothing to do with it…I am college educated and left the area (that being one of the reasons for leaving).
For many, leaving is not an option. Family, and land ownership being big draws to staying.
Actually I have alot more respect for them than the guys climbing the corporate ladder by working 80 hours or more a week, and denying their families the love, affection and attention we all crave. (the corporate CEO of the UNION mine that had the fire where two died is a miserable SOB who still blames his ex-wife.)
Being poor is not as terrible as being without family or land.The appalachian state of mind is hard to understand (after 20 years I can still only observe), BUT I CAN SAY WV is really almost heaven.
Posted by robin on Jan 29, 2006 at 11:41 PM think4yourself, my comment about the NO buses was based on information I acquired from a different source and thought it worth presenting for consumption on this board.
Now is the time for taxes to be raised. The U.S. is fighting two wars on tax cuts and has unprecedented debt. The administration is trying to eliminate funding for all programs not related to the DHS and DOD. I value personal privacy above not having taxes. A liberal government would not spend more money than the Bush administration, but would spend it BETTER, and in areas that need funding.
Posted by Liberal on Jan 30, 2006 at 1:43 AM I don’t think paying taxes is a bad thing either. Investing in citizens and the general welfare is righteous in my book.
Right now, there is money in the billions if not trillions that our government can’t even account for. Investing BETTER is indeed an issue, as is accountability.
We have a tendency to take public projects for granted and to give the great man way too much credit. The computers we’re on were developed with public monies. The phone system was developed and built with public monies. Most people here can read because of the public education they received.
Posted by wileywitch on Jan 30, 2006 at 4:46 AM Good post wileywitch. I could not have said it better myself. I personally do not view taxation as an incursion into my personal freedom. Taxation to me is an investment in my community and country. The key is to have transparent budgets by all levels of government with accountability as to how the money is spent. The biggest waste of resources is the DOD, not welfare or unemployment programs.
I am much more fearful of the government spying on me and telling me who I can or cannot marry than I am of the government taxing my income.
Posted by Liberal on Jan 30, 2006 at 8:36 PM I don’t think we’ve met, robin. I just wanted to say “hello”. Your post was resonant, and it reminded me of the mixed feelings that can exist between working class families and their educated children.
I’ve been through West Virginia a few times. It is beautiful.
Posted by wileywitch on Jan 30, 2006 at 10:23 PM Well, Liberal, if you come up with a succint way to illustrate the fact that money spent on public projects, and public welfare, infrastucture, and education is not a zero sum game, then slap it up here, pleeze. Most people get the impression that when government (which is ostensibly, a public servant) pays monies to institutions and people it is not thrown into a dark hole. People and institutions spend that money into the economy so that it becomes income, payment for goods, more taxable income, payment for services, etc.
Posted by wileywitch on Jan 31, 2006 at 6:30 AM As the author of this article, I hesitate to get involved in feedback—but, per comments from On One’s Tod, from 1/25, I must correct the record. Far from being sensationalist, my story was carefully researched and entirely accurate: Bureau of Labor Statistics data show that mining indeed has the second-highest fatality rate of all industry sectors, after agriculture. Construction, also a dangerous business, has higher numbers of fatalities, among far greater numbers of workers. Rates are a more accurate depiction of relative fatality risks than sheer overall numbers. Yes, black lung disease rates have declined, yet 1000 deaths a year, retirees or not, is not my notion of acceptable progress. —Christopher Cook
Posted by Cdcook on Feb 3, 2006 at 10:09 PM I didn’t think your article was sensationalist at all, Cdcook.
Your clarification doesn’t hurt, either. And even if the rate of deaths were the same for mining and construction work, there is a particular horror of being buried alive that—-since it’s unlikely that anyone wants to test it—-is worthy of respect and particularly diligent preventive measures.
I take reproach for preventable workplace deaths to be a sign of mental health and social responsibility.
More dilligent safety measures on construction sites is not a bad idea either. You wouldn’t believe some of the scaffolding I’ve seen.
Posted by wileywitch on Feb 6, 2006 at 12:40 AM One of the things not mentioned in any of the postings or the article itself (but which is explained in full in a recent issue of The Nation) is the sheer political corruption involved in dealing with the issue of coal mine safety. It seems that Mitch McConnell-a Republican Senator from Kentucky-spent much of his time and effort fighting aspects of campaign finance reform such that energy companies, like the one involved in the mining accident in WV described in the article, could spend as much as they wanted buying politicians. Since over ninety percent of coal industry donations go to Republicans, Bush decided to reward McConnell’s efforts by making his wife, Elaine Chou, Labor Secretary. One of Chou’s first acts in that capacity was to replace the assistant secretary of labor, who also headed up the Mine Safety and Health Administration (MSHA), with Dan Laurisky who was a coal industry man. According to many, Laurisky virtually took bribes to ignore health and safety regulations in the mines of influential companies and to call off intrusive inspections opposed by company executives who complained bitterly to the new head of MSHA. This resulted in the recent wave of mining accidents of which the above described one is only the worst in recent memory. What else can we expect from the most reactionary and anti-labor administration in US history?!
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