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Another great article by Silja J.A. Talvi!
“What happens when thousands of gang members
Posted by Epistrophy on Mar 28, 2006 at 7:36 AM
i’m old enough to remember articles like this from the1960’s. society is not going to spend the billions in each state neceessary to allieviate overcrowding and to provide programs for those prisoners who really want to have skills other than criminal talent. Violent criminals will stay increasingly behind bars; if we don’t have alternative, safe facilities for them, what else can we do? Crime is down in part because career criminals are in jail and not in the street. Would it be nicer to try to “save” some of these people; sure but it’s not going to happen. Prisoners have no effective political lobby.
What to do? Let’s look at what might be politically practical. A renewed focus on better juvenile facililties. Stop problems before they spread. Significant after school youth programs plus summer camp programs that stress skills training, athletics and exposure to cultures other than the violent street culture.
lKeep people who have not used weapons or violence out of jail, period. These nonviolent offenders may need separation from society, but “prison type” incarceration will only make them more violent.
Does anyone know how many “nonviolent” people are in prisons, as opposed to halfway houses, rehab, etc.? No sense advocation of positions if we (including me) don’t know what we are positing as far as impact is concerned.
Posted by knocko on Apr 2, 2006 at 9:45 AM
I agree that a great place to start is by finding meaningful alternatives for nonviolent offenders. Prison is just a cesspool for violence and offers no possiblity for rehabilitation.
As Talvi suggested, this would mean retructuring the prison system. Since it is the segregation of the prison system that breeds violence along racial lines, it is imperative that the system develops nonviolent alternatives that can transcend race and class boundaries.
Posted by Epistrophy on Apr 2, 2006 at 1:40 PM
Posted by knocko
” Crime is down in part because career criminals are in jail and not in the street. Would it be nicer to try to
Posted by tina1 on Apr 3, 2006 at 7:24 PM
One thing I’d add is to find another approach to dealing with drugs (read: something that actually improves society). Prohibition so obviously does not work, basically serving to intrigue teens and to make bad guys rich off their black market profits.
Some combination of decriminalization (for adults only, including a selection of decrim’d drugs), education, and jail time for those who traffic to kids, might be a more effective approach. Also, it would mitigate the drug-related profits that fuel so much gang-related crime. This would also include their ability to get ahold of truly scary firepower, with all that black market cash.
Whatever the role of ethnicity in all this, can it be doubted that the current situation is untenable and liable to become much worse? Offenders of all color-codes come out of prison more nihilistic and criminally connected than ever. Like so many aspects of American culture, this one could benefit from a deliberate effort to anticipate consequences in the longer term, rather than our continued habit of applying stop-gap, short-term, reactive measures in response to complex problems. Like cramming ever more convicts into a finite physical space!
Posted by Kuya on Apr 5, 2006 at 12:17 AM
I think everyone is right on target in terms of finding alternative ways to deal with incarceration (for example drug related charges which should not be criminalized the way murderer is criminalized). We should find alternatives to creating a healthier society rather than making society more violent. (For example, militarism does not make society safer. It breeds violence by fragmenting soceity into violent factions. And due to the amount of weapons that are produced and sold, violence is perpetuated ad infinitum.)
I disgree that severe sentencing has cut down on violent crimes. Voilence waxes and wanes but for the most part remains constant. After all, prisons are part of an industrial complex. Private companies make a lot of money on prisons and prison construction, including phone companies.
The majority of people in prison are in for nonviolent offenses. Yet these prisoners are absorbed into a violent setting. As the article by Talvi indicates, this forces nonviolent offenders to become gangmembers in prison and has exacerbated racial tensions due to segregation and racial compartmentalization.
Posted by Epistrophy on Apr 5, 2006 at 7:23 AM
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Reader Comments
Another great article by Silja J.A. Talvi!
“What happens when thousands of gang members
i’m old enough to remember articles like this from the1960’s. society is not going to spend the billions in each state neceessary to allieviate overcrowding and to provide programs for those prisoners who really want to have skills other than criminal talent. Violent criminals will stay increasingly behind bars; if we don’t have alternative, safe facilities for them, what else can we do? Crime is down in part because career criminals are in jail and not in the street. Would it be nicer to try to “save” some of these people; sure but it’s not going to happen. Prisoners have no effective political lobby.
What to do? Let’s look at what might be politically practical. A renewed focus on better juvenile facililties. Stop problems before they spread. Significant after school youth programs plus summer camp programs that stress skills training, athletics and exposure to cultures other than the violent street culture.
lKeep people who have not used weapons or violence out of jail, period. These nonviolent offenders may need separation from society, but “prison type” incarceration will only make them more violent.
Does anyone know how many “nonviolent” people are in prisons, as opposed to halfway houses, rehab, etc.? No sense advocation of positions if we (including me) don’t know what we are positing as far as impact is concerned.
I agree that a great place to start is by finding meaningful alternatives for nonviolent offenders. Prison is just a cesspool for violence and offers no possiblity for rehabilitation.
As Talvi suggested, this would mean retructuring the prison system. Since it is the segregation of the prison system that breeds violence along racial lines, it is imperative that the system develops nonviolent alternatives that can transcend race and class boundaries.
Posted by knocko
” Crime is down in part because career criminals are in jail and not in the street. Would it be nicer to try to
One thing I’d add is to find another approach to dealing with drugs (read: something that actually improves society). Prohibition so obviously does not work, basically serving to intrigue teens and to make bad guys rich off their black market profits.
Some combination of decriminalization (for adults only, including a selection of decrim’d drugs), education, and jail time for those who traffic to kids, might be a more effective approach. Also, it would mitigate the drug-related profits that fuel so much gang-related crime. This would also include their ability to get ahold of truly scary firepower, with all that black market cash.
Whatever the role of ethnicity in all this, can it be doubted that the current situation is untenable and liable to become much worse? Offenders of all color-codes come out of prison more nihilistic and criminally connected than ever. Like so many aspects of American culture, this one could benefit from a deliberate effort to anticipate consequences in the longer term, rather than our continued habit of applying stop-gap, short-term, reactive measures in response to complex problems. Like cramming ever more convicts into a finite physical space!
I think everyone is right on target in terms of finding alternative ways to deal with incarceration (for example drug related charges which should not be criminalized the way murderer is criminalized). We should find alternatives to creating a healthier society rather than making society more violent. (For example, militarism does not make society safer. It breeds violence by fragmenting soceity into violent factions. And due to the amount of weapons that are produced and sold, violence is perpetuated ad infinitum.)
I disgree that severe sentencing has cut down on violent crimes. Voilence waxes and wanes but for the most part remains constant. After all, prisons are part of an industrial complex. Private companies make a lot of money on prisons and prison construction, including phone companies.
The majority of people in prison are in for nonviolent offenses. Yet these prisoners are absorbed into a violent setting. As the article by Talvi indicates, this forces nonviolent offenders to become gangmembers in prison and has exacerbated racial tensions due to segregation and racial compartmentalization.
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