The 9/11 Faith Movement

WTH goodluck. De real enemis are de globalisas..................off to mow a meadow...................

Rule # 1: In the Middle East, it is always the Arabs that attack first, and it’s always Israel who defends itself. This is called “retaliation”.

Rule # 2: The Arabs, whether Palestinians or Lebanese, are not allowed to kill Israelis. This is called “terrorism”.

Rule # 3: Israel has the right to kill Arab civilians; this is called “self-defense”, or these days “collateral damage”.

Rule # 4: When Israel kills too many civilians, the Western world calls for restraint. This is called the “reaction of the international community”.

Rule # 5: Palestinians and Lebanese do not have the right to capture Israeli military, not even a limited number, not even 1 or 2.

Rule # 6: Israel has the right to capture as many Palestinians as they want (Palestinians: around 10000 to date, 300 of which are children, Lebanese: 1000s to date, being held without trial). There is no limit; there is no need for proof of guilt or trial. All that is needed is the magic word: “terrorism”.

Rule # 7: When you say “Hezbollah”, always be sure to add “supported by Syria and Iran”.

Rule # 8: When you say “Israel”, never say “supported by the USA, the UK and other European countries”, for people (God forbid) might believe this is not an equal conflict.

Rule # 9: When it comes to Israel, don’t mention the words “occupied territories”, “UN resolutions”, “Geneva conventions”. This could distress the audience of Fox.

Rule # 10: Israelis speak better English than Arabs. This is why we let them speak out as much as possible, so that they can explain rules 1 through 9. This is called “neutral journalism”.

Rule # 11: If you don’t agree with these rules or if you favor the Arab side over the Israeli side, you must be a very dangerous anti-Semite. You may even have to make a public apology if you express your honest opinion.

Rabbit,

Some how I don’t think I should watch for your apology, although it would be nice.

Just kidding. You are certainly entitled to your own opinion.

I guess there is no reason I should expect civility — we don’t have it here anymore as this article illustrates.

http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110008763

WTH,

Be sure to read the comments, also.  Mr. Davis gets in his little licks as well in this article, all the while talking civility.  Yes, many folks on the left are waking up to the depth of hateful rhetoric coming from their supposed constituency.  (sp?)

Big MacIntel is here!! Where’s my credit card?

Yo,

Back in the states again-can we get a thread going on the airlines???

I’m just checking in to set the record straight for the unjustly accused Rabbit.  I had no idea I was going to give the self-fellating jackass Scorp something to crow about when I posted from my laptop before.  One would think that having money and the ability to travel--it’s called ‘business’--would not so greatly upset the applecart.

Again thankyou to those who have seen fit to set the record straight about 9/11 and I must regretfully decline to engage the delightful Natalie in any of her seemingly endless paper chases.

“Furthermore you slandering Fruit Bat you called me anti-semitic and I pointed out that the Jews of Israel are not semites and that many Jews don’t support Israel either and then you no longer want to talk about that.”

Let’s take a short 9 month trip back in time, shall we, to when Rabbit posted this:

“Kaw Valley Kid, Rabbitreading between the lines, suspects you have at least read the words between Mouse and Rabbit.  Here is something which might also be of interest.
It is a perspective, a valuable one.” Posted by Rabbit on Nov 1, 2005 at 12:27 AM

His “valuable perspective” included such reality revisionist statements as this:

The primary complaint of the Holocaust Truth Seekers is that the slave labor camps, Nazi camps were not extermination centers. The Holocaust Truth Seekers claim that most of the deaths were caused by typhus epidemics due to lice, and shortages of food during the final years of the war, not gas chambers.

And this:

The photos shows that some Nazi prisons were real prisons, and some were slave labor camps, but none of them were extermination centers. Germany was losing the war during the final years, and they were desperate for military supplies. The Nazis began rounding up the unwanted people for the labor camps.

The prisoners were given beds and food because they were making supplies for the German military. The Nazis wanted to keep the prisoners free of lice and typhus because sickly, miserable prisoners do not make good workers.

And on another branch of the site:

The Holocaust should be considered a hoax until the Jews prove otherwise. The burden of proof is on them, not me or you. Don’t be a sucker!

Rabbit, if you consider this perspective to be valuable, you are sadly, pathetically and historically mis-guided.  You don’t want to be considered an anti-semite.  Just how would an actual anti-semite act any differently?

And what is your source for that Menachem Begin quote?????

It should also be noted that Mr. Hufschmid is one of the original movers and shakers behind another mindless hate-based attempt at historical revisionism—the 9/11 “truth” movement.

You can watch the dweeby Nazi apologist here, starting @ 02:40.  And don’t miss little Jimmy Walter @ 04:07.

Some Muslim guy under the tutulage of the FBI did set off a dud of a bomb under the World Trade Center. That would make the World Trade Center a great target for another false flag operation.

George Bush lied about Hussein having weapons of Mass Destruction and Iraq having a connection with Al Queda and and has murdered hundreds of thousands of people.

Most people in Iraq do not have electricity or clean water right now, Natalie. Stop whining about the WTC---it’s garish and vulgar.

This victim stance over 9/11 is getting old. If our government wanted justice, they would have done a forensic investigation and worked with worldwide terrorist experts and intelligence experts, and worked to catch the culprits.

If the U.S. government wanted to defend and protect the United States they would have investigated the failure and fired everyone in a position of responsibility that did not act in a timely professional manner and follow appropriate procedures (whether that would have ended in stopping the hijacking or not) and hired better leaders, and updated their equipment, if that’s what the problem was. And if the problem was confusion because of the tapes then they need to haul the bastards to court and charge them with three thousand counts of manslaughter at the very least.

You might also stop asserting that people in television news are only interested in doing as little as possible to discredit the 9/11 truth movement and are not interested in informing the U.S. public.

“Again thankyou to those who have seen fit to set the record straight about 9/11 and I must regretfully decline to engage the delightful Natalie in any of her seemingly endless paper chases.”

Translation:  I’m preparing to engage in a real endless paper chase of my own, based on a bunch of baloney, and I don’t want to be distracted by any kind of reality.

“Some Muslim guy under the tutulage of the FBI did set off a dud of a bomb under the World Trade Center. That would make the World Trade Center a great target for another false flag operation.”

Spoken like a true conspiracy theorist, using of course the last and least respected definition of theory.

theory:  6) An assumption based on limited information or knowledge; a conjecture

A dud?  Are you getting into the history revising business too?

Here’s our old friend Bill Manning again:

The bombing of the WTC was an event of immense proportions, the largest incident ever handled in the City of New York Fire Department’s 128-year history, and also complex in that it was effectively several major multiple-alarm fires combined into one. In terms of the number of fire department units that responded, it was the equivalent of a 16-alarm fire. As the incident commander, I can attest to the fact that it was the firefighters’ tremendous efforts and courage that brought this incident to a successful conclusion.

The statistics are staggering: Six people died and 1,042 were injured. Of those injured, 15 received traumatic injuries from the blast itself. Nearly 20 people complained of cardiac problems, and nearly 30 pregnant women were rescued. Eighty-eight firefighters (one requiring hospitalization), 35 police officers, and one EMS worker sustained injuries. It is estimated that approximately 50,000 people were evacuated from the WTC complex, including nearly 25,000 from each of the two towers. Fire alarm dispatchers received more than 1,000 phone calls, most reporting victims trapped on the upper floors of the towers. Search and evacuation of the towers finally were completed some 11 hours after the incident began.

A nitrourea bomb, in excess of 1,000 pounds, with hydrogen cylinders to add impact, was detonated in the now-infamous yellow Ryder Econoline van on the B-2 level of the parking garage, causing massive destruction that spanned seven levels, six below grade. The L-shaped blast crater on B-2 at its maximum measured 130 feet wide by 150 feet long. The blast’s epicenter was under the northeast corner of the Vista Hotel. Anthony L Fusco is chief of department and a 33-year veteran of the City of New York (NY) Fire Department. He served as the incident commander for the World Trade Center incident.

FDNY ultimately responded to the incident with 84 engine companies, 60 truck companies, 28 battalion chiefs, nine deputy chiefs, and five rescue companies and 26 other special units (representing nearly 45 percent of the on-duty staff of FDNY). The fire department units maintained a presence at the scene for 28 days.

-----------------

Interesting that this is your definition of a dud, wiley.  That one’s got to be way down on the list as well.  Of course to al Qaeda, it was a dud.  They only killed 6 people and injured a thousand, and failed to topple the towers.

Do you use an al Qaeda dictionary?

Rabbit....Redhorse heard the number of children being held is around....1000…

I see quite a few people rocking back on their heels, unable to answer the charges that the GhostRabbit has made.

Masterful, he is.  Sly, and with real teeth.  He has bitten some backsides again, and it is always fun to read his work.  Even when I disagree with some of the points he makes, when I don’t think he’s got it all lined up, one has to admire his skill.

Calling him anti-semitic is old hat.  The first thing you do when you want to try to knock someone down is start throwing out anti-semitic charges.  Next he’ll be a devil, a child molester, a Dallas Cowboys fan, a stealer of candy from infants, a purveyor of all nasty sorts of things, perhaps even someone who sold a car after he maliciously rolled back the odometer!

How dastardly!

I’ll bet he wears black and has a moustache and can’t balance his checkbook…

The fiend!

“ The first thing you do when you want to try to knock someone down is start throwing out anti-semitic charges.”

No actually Kal, this is one of the more recent charges that has been made against Rabbit.  The proceeding ones have been based upon simply debunking the myriad of myths he’s put forth.  The resulting charges would range from being exceedingly gullible to outright lying.

He defined himself by himself.  I only reproduce his own posting, never disavowed, which makes it quite clear where he stands.

Do you regard the writings of Eric Hufschmid to be a “valuable perspective”?

Gosh, I hope not.

Do you know whether or not the quote by Menachem Begin is legitimate?

Fruit Bat Nat.

You are going to have a real problem with your boyfriend, the special troll Scorp.

You see he Scorpse has a special Chinese connection and he is going to be somewhat torn in his loyalty to your fascist Zionists very shortly.

I’m not paying attention much to the Bat, is she trying to bring up some sort of ancient unrelated history to the topic now?  What a surprise!

I think if I say that I am not anti-Jewish, that is the end of the matter you duplicitous bat!  If I am anti anything it is anti-lies.  I abhore lies and Liars.  I have a brother who is one of the best liars in the country and he makes millions of dollars doing it.  Rabbit cannot stand lies and as a result is poor.  There isn’t much reward in this mixed up old world for being an honest man or rabbit, but I’ll damned well not be called a liar by a degenerate low IQ, proven lying shill!

I am anti-Israel. It is a nation based upon a lie, the lie of the Israelites of the bible.  It is a state based upon an endless string of terror and murders against all who stand in its way and many who just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.  It is a self defined Apartheid state with a penchant for massive oppression against the very people whose name it has usurped in its greatest slander.  SEMITES.  It is now engaged in another in a long string of atacks against lebanon which has been goping on for more than two decades.  It is a self described master race, an exception to international law by virtue of an extremist but false religious claim.

I have already posted plenty of links to Jewish organisations many of whom demand that Israel be obliterated from the world stage.  They are so anti-Israel they will not even call it Israel, but refer to the Zionist state and other less polite terms.

So as far as ad-hominem slander you are shit out of luck this time Batgirl.

Now since the Israeli score for killing Lebanese civilians is about 30 times more than Hezbollah have killed of Israelis, and you still think the Israelis are the victims here I am wondering at what point does the conflict at least become even to such a sick denialist like the Facsist Fruit Bat.  If the Israelis are killing fifty to one will that make it at least even Batgirl?  No?  What about a hundred to one?  What if the Israelis are killing a hundred Arabs for every one of their own will it at least seem like a fair fight then to you Bartgirl?  Maybe you agree with their sick ideas that one Israeli life is priceless while an Arab life is less than that of catle?

I guess since you don’t want to face up to the fascist statements by the Zionists then you are just a standard Zyber Shildier then.

Thankyou Kal.

Do yourself a favour and ignore the Fruit Bat.  She is worse to have around than Syphillus.

WTH

Is it possible the rabbit has done something for which he should apologise?  Please do refresh my memory if this is the case, for if you have not learned Rabbit is quite capable of apologising when appropriate then you have not learned anything..........what am I saying, of course you have not!.

Well give it a shot, but be warned if it is more of your trying to re-write history then be aware of the likely response.

I thought the news of the truth about Vietnam atrocities might have given you pause to think about that few rotten apples excuse and “we are the exception” theory you hold so dear?  Also that bit about where we are supposed to give you more credit because at least you investigate and punish the crimes committed by your soldiers.  It seems what happens is that whistle blowers are silenced, investigations are kept secret and all action curtailed in a giant cloud of denial.  How familiar.

Did you see how much punishment got meted out to any of the many hundreds of criminals who committed all manner of atrocities in the name of American delusions of democracy?

One of the more recent charges?  You have been calling the rabbit anti-semitic for even longer than that reference you made above.

Like everything you say it is just so much hot wind and ravings, as logic dictates.  My reply to the spurious charge is proof in itself you are wrong.  If the man says he is not anti-Jewish or anti-semitic then he isn’t.  That’s how it is in the real world. 

You are the one who is so mixed up you confuse support for Irsael to be support for Jews.  Israel is an extremist Jewish state, but MANY Jews the world over and even some in Israel are totally opposed to Israel’s actions at this time.

I do believe if Hezbollah was just taking the Israeli assault without firing any missiles and just killing the invading soldiers you’d still see the Israeli mass murder as justified.  If Hezbollah laid down their weapons and just allowed the Israelis to cross their border and kill them all, men women and children you would cheer it as necessary.  You are a really sick Bat do you know that?

You are the most disgusting fascist hatefilled cheer leader for murder and you dare to call me a hater?  I am not even saying that Hezbollah should be killing Israelis, even the relatively low rate of civilian casualties they are inflicting is mostly avoidable and it’s too bad they kill as many civilians as they do.  But yesterday when Israel killed 47 more lebanese civilians, the Hezbollah killed 17 Israeli soldiers.  A big difference there and it isn’t just ysterday.  Every day the tallies show minimal numbers of Hezbollah and mostly Israeli soldiers. 

But to compare those few deaths with the massive genocidal blitzkrieg being launched against an entire country, is just a joke.

The only hatred in my breast is born not of the dreadful atrocities, which are all too human and more easily understood to an experienced and discerning man.  There is hatred, it is growing, and I can only imagine that this is but a pale reflection of the hatred so much more justified of those who have had their families and lives torn to shreds by the ravening beast you sereve.  The hatred which for the life of me I cannot combat, it is growing daily, it comes from the lies.  The lies that the monsters tell while they rape and pillage the planet and the race.  It isn’t enough that evil and avariciuos beasts of men and women, sub human scum must prey upon the innocent and the weak, no this is not enough and if it were I would still oppose them, but I would feel dispassionately about it all.  For such malignant and nasty beasts they also twist everything to make it seem like their victims are to blame for their suffering and destruction. 

To compare such a fascist and hubristic monstrosity to Hitlers Nazism is almost quaint!

It is as if the Nazis had won the war, exterminated all the Jews, Gypsies and Homosexuals and then built monuments to themselves for their courageous struggle against the evil attacking Jews, Gypsies and Homosexuals. 

No it is worse.  It is worse because it is 2006, and there no longer is any excuse for any human race to consider itself superior to any other.  Today the stakes are much higher too.  Something you will become no doubt painfully aware of before the maniacal Decider is replaced with whatever the next horror story the NWO masters have in store for you.

Natalie, there are twenty car pile ups with more deaths on a daily basis than that bomb that was supposed to “take down the World Trade Center” (according to you). A bomb that is intended to destroy a skyscraper in NYC during business hours that kills six people and does a little damage to the garage is a “dud”. Yes.  Do that with enough “terrorists” acts with fewer than ten deaths and you’ll be undermining your own cause. There are probably that many people shot in parking lots on any given day in the U.S. The poor victims are dead, and those were violent and unjust deaths. But to treat that event as if it were “staggering” is the same as calling 9/11 “unthinkable”.

It’s bullshit. People who can’t handle “staggering” and “unthinkable” shouldn’t have high ranking jobs in military security or government agencies that are tasked with handling crisis, and sure as hell shouldn’t be carrying guns.

Your cry baby defense is sounding more lame each time you use it.

300 pound bombs dropped on families while they sleep, now that’s hard to overstate. Let’s hear your defense for dropping bombs on children who “collaborate” with “terrorists” in their sleep.

This is more of the developing scary but exciting thing.

Wiley do keep an ear out for anything about China at this time.  Who would have thought we would be looking to China for human rights protection, and so soon?

It was horrible and yet so typical the way the Fruit bat pecked at Kal, as soon as somebody loses the faith she is ready to have them executed.

Death is too good for these Bush hating, truth loving ratbags isn’t it Batgirl?  They should be cursed to debate with you (sic), for ever instead.

I’m telling ya, Rabbit----it’s Rumsfeld and the neocons. They have this comic book fantasy. Bush wasn’t in office for two weeks before he pissed off China.

They all have their own set of shared fantasies and warped weltanschaungs, if you will, but they all have their separate selfish issues in play as well. 

The neocons and other totalitarian zionists are the biggest, most armed, and toxic clusterf*ck in the history of the human race.  I’m limiting my news reading right now, because I am getting too floored. Not to deflect any blame for the U.S. and Israel, but the fact that the E.U. and U.N. are not shouting these rat bastards down while Lebanon is destroyed for an even flimsier lie than the U.S. used to attack Iraq makes me feel a little too close to hopeless.

Everything I and everyone I worked with in nuclear forces considered to be the things most likely to lead to a nuclear war are happening. And that’s what this jackass Rumsfeld wants. The man is dumb as a f*cking shoe. He still really believes that the U.S. can “win” a nuclear war, and then get the trophy or something. I can’t imagine what “winning” a nuclear war looks like on a planet that’s half out of it’s mind now and losing the balance it needs in order to sustain life.

Our poor little race is at the mercy of billions of man hours of math and engineering being controlled by a couple of dozen morons with grand delusions, no conscience, and a lot of crony pals.

Well the smart money would have to be on China.  They make up fpr the technological gap with a vast force which could be cut in half and still be the biggest in the world.  They have also got the advantage of much more farsighted and intelligent leaders than any of our lot, least of all the grand poobar himself, The Decider. 

Dammit though its a devilish hard language to learn.  Maybe Scorp will get the last laugh.

Natalie,

I’m may be getting closer to a DSL connection and will then spring for an iMac.  (keeping my G4 and 9600 to run old software and hardware)

I really don’t see an advantage in being able to access PC applications and there is a definite disadvantage — it makes hackers, phishers and buggers more problematic than being on a “pure” Mac.

I have been having increased problems getting into this site — requires daily (sometimes more than once) dumping of related cookies, rebooting and rebuilding the desktop. Today I got on using yesterday’s link, but it is totally unreliable and may not work a third time.

Most of the commentary is re-runs anyway.  Each of us is firmly convinced on these issues and disregard others opinions. I believe the problem for all is the constant news bombardment we get from all media and the ease of tinkering with any story.

I am old enough to remember WW2 when all visuals were confined to weekly Newsreels at the local theater. There were no corespondents on the enemies’ side giving us reports. Everything was heavily censored and letters from servicemen arrived with holes where info had been literally cut out.

A typical report now is something like, “After 28 days, the Lebanese and Israelis seem no closer to a cease fire and the death tolls are in the many hundreds.”

Imagine a WW2 report done in today’s style — “Thirty days following the attack at Pearl Harbor and no end in sight.”

One battle following D-Day the US took 40,000 casualties in a month (Bradley’s First Army).  My neighbor (who served from 1940 to 1945) just reminded me about the battle at Stalingrad when Soviet casualties averaged over 17,000 per day.

If we had been receiving those items in real time morale would have plummeted.

Frog,

Rev. Moon:

“...what was once pretty innocent can be harnessed otherwise .  The Rev Moon is not poor like us, and seems to be well-surrounded with Congresspeople ?”

“More than a dozen lawmakers attended a congressional reception this year honoring the Rev. Sun Myung Moon in which Moon declared himself the Messiah and said his teachings have helped Hitler and Stalin be “reborn as new persons.”
(Washington Times)

Here is a guy who is a real “Loony” — Any politician who aligns himself is desperate for contributions. It could be more of a detriment than the money is worth. 

Like most 24/7 news this is just noise. I doubt that Europe has much of this kind of religious cult — after being immersed in two World Wars religion seems to have lost its relevance sooner than here. These “prophets” go for the profits and the US is a better market — you’re stuck with the traditional varieties.

(I don’t think this got on)

Frog,

“Bloody-minded old WTH !
have a good look at the stuff above.....”

Re: some of the above

Kuwaiti babies — not sure exactly what you are referring to. Michael Kelly, who wrote a book on the Gulf War was in Kuwait during the war and reported the Iraqis not only killed babies, but set fire to the hospital with everyone in it.

“...I thought. If there’s evidence pointing to bin Laden’s complicity, he should be turned over, and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. There’s plenty of evidence that he’s been behind terrorist attacks elsewhere - in Kosovo, in Macedonia, in Bosnia, in Chechnya, and in Dagestan, in those instances, with the full knowledge of Washington.”

Frog: “Proof? Who needs proof?”

If you believe Osama did the above why would proof of involvement in 9/11 be needed before going after him?

re: Soviet Union quality of products —

My son was in Moscow in 1984 and even what was available to western visitors was low quality, especially food.  I doubt anyone here thought them incapable, rather all of their expertise went into military and space projects.

The short coming of communism is economic. Central planning is futile over long periods. People, who are the market, will pick what is the best value available.

Globalization has reduced choices over here.

Central planning (Congress) is “saving the consumer money” and has eliminated our choice in many products and services. No one in the USA can produce even the cheap plastic crap and compete.

A while back Rabbit made some very disparaging comments about the US military — as usual misplaced blame.

The last war the US “won” was WW2.  Since then, in Korea, Vietnam and miscellaneous smaller conflicts the fighting has been managed by bureaucrats and politicians. They now treat a war as if it were a sports contest. There are boundaries not to be crossed. There are those who place limits for fear of causing wider conflict. The other guys are free to go where they choose.

In Korea the Yalu River was our northern boundary for fear of antagonizing Communist China and the Soviets. Never mind the Chinese were already in by the thousands and the Russian pilots were flying combat missions regularly. (We knew it. They knew we knew it. They knew we knew they knew — such is diplomacy — all pretense.)

In Nam it was Laos, Cambodia, etc. we were not supposed to cross (or at least not admit it).

War is not a gentleman’s game. The main goal is to KILL the other guy.  Pretending civilians will not die is unreasonable.  For that matter, what is a soldier other than a civilian in a different suit. To his family what he was wearing is of no consequence.

You and I have the luxury of sitting comfortably thousands of miles from the sounds and smells of combat. We can ponder (or pontificate) on who did what and when — even going back in history to seek proof texts. Those involved may have no concept of what happened over days, decades or millennia.  All they know is “the other guy is killing those around them.” That perception colors their comments and the news we receive.

Now, with 24/7 “news” we have an additional factor added to the mix.

Continual speculation and moralizing — often on unsubstantiated information — always biased — it is now a spectator sport.

“In war there is no substitute for victory.” — Gen. Douglas MacArthur, Korean War

“Your job is not too die for your country. Your job is to make the other son of a bitch die for his.” — Gen. George S. Patton, WW2

Israel would be crazy to listen to anyone telling them to stop now. If they go back to where they were they would have no real assurance that Hezbollah would not simply regroup and resupply.

For Rabbit…

“When the wolf is chasing your sleigh, offer him a cookie, but don’t stop to bake him a cake.” — George Peppard, Banacek TV series

“Natalie, there are twenty car pile ups with more deaths on a daily basis than that bomb that was supposed to “take down the World Trade Center” (according to you). A bomb that is intended to destroy a skyscraper in NYC during business hours that kills six people and does a little damage to the garage is a “dud”. Yes.”

No, not “according to me”, according to the bomber himself:

On Feb 26, 1993, Ramzi Ahmed Yousef and five others successfully conspired to detonate a car bomb in the bowels of the Center’s north tower.

According to U.S. secret service agent Brian Parr, Yousef predicted the high death count would shock the United States into realizing it was at war.

Now if you want to continue to downplay the seriousness of what these guys wanted to do, and even the seriousness of what actually happened, feel free.  But you should realize that you are on the outermost fringes of opinion about the event, right along with the “truthies” on 9/11:

Despite its relatively low death toll, the bombing shocked the American public. According to testimony in the bomb trial, only once before the 1993 attack had the FBI recorded a bomb that used urea nitrate. The FBI has recorded a total of about 73,000 explosions.

But this is no big deal to you.  Just a little dud.  I wonder if you’d describe the terrorist’s second act on the towers a dud as well.  I wonder if you’d have considered it a dud if this bomb had been detonated in such a place that 100 people were killed.  1000?  What is your threshold?  How about at your house?  Was the bomb at Oklahoma City a dud?  (No, because that one was set off by a white American militia guy)

“It’s bullshit. People who can’t handle “staggering” and “unthinkable” shouldn’t have high ranking jobs in military security or government agencies that are tasked with handling crisis, and sure as hell shouldn’t be carrying guns.”

Well actually, the bottom line of the report on the “dud”, was that everyone indeed did handle the staggering and unthinkable quite professionally and heroically.  The fires were brought under control, the people were evacuated, and the building was repaired.  So I think they can go on carrying guns.  It’ll be OK.

“300 pound bombs dropped on families while they sleep, now that’s hard to overstate. Let’s hear your defense for dropping bombs on children who “collaborate” with “terrorists” in their sleep.

Well, sorry about that.  But getting blown to bits at the shopping mall along with dozens of your fellow bargain hunters without the benefit of a leaflet kinda sucks too.

And so does having your village sprayed with mustard gas.  And so does getting buried in a mass grave along with thousands of your friends and neighbors, right after you witnessed your kids getting tortured or your wife or daughter getting raped.  A lot of things suck in the world, but let’s not forget the difference between deliberate acts done purely for pleasure, to preserve power or to please Allah, and trying to do something to prevent them.

OK Rabbit, it’s certainly plain that you don’t like the label “anti-semite”.  That is a very good thing.  Perhaps the word has been over used of late, and perhaps it is an imprecise label for you.  If that is the case, and you seem to think that it is, then I will take you at your word and offer my apologies.

However, I’ll not accept the notion that my suspicions about you were unfounded.  Let us not forget that the whole country here roundly labeled Mel Gibson an anti-semite for saying things pretty much along the same lines as have you, even though people universally said he seemed to have no such attitudes when he was sober.  His subconscious was even held accountable.

You defend and side with Hezbollah, Hamas, the Palestinians and even al-Qaeda.  If they aren’t anti-semitic, then nobody is.  You speak of Nasrallah in glowing terms.  These people are taught from an early age to hate jews, to equate them literally with monkeys and pigs, and are never given the chance to form an opinion on their own.  Why do you defend these brainwashed clearly anti-semitic people?

You link us to a Holocaust revisionist site.  I must ask you.  Do you agree with the following from that site, that you described as having a valuable perspective?:

The primary complaint of the Holocaust Truth Seekers is that the slave labor camps, Nazi camps were not extermination centers. The Holocaust Truth Seekers claim that most of the deaths were caused by typhus epidemics due to lice, and shortages of food during the final years of the war, not gas chambers.

The Holocaust should be considered a hoax until the Jews prove otherwise. The burden of proof is on them, not me or you. Don’t be a sucker!

Now I guess one could describe this kind of “analysis” as a simple search for the truth, but I’m quite confident that at least in this country, an overwhelming majority would label it as anti-semitic, if not loony tunes.

Do you stand by Eric and his “perspective”?

I’m still waiting for your source for the Begin quote.  And, if it’s not too much trouble, Bill Manning’s website address too.  (I know, that one’s a secret)

1. Protec technicians were operating portable field seismographs at several construction sites in Manhattan on 9/11. These seismographs recorded the events at Ground Zero, including the collapse of all three structures. These measurements, combined with seismic and airblast data recorded by other independent entities, provide an unfiltered, purely scientific view of each event. 

2. In the weeks following 9/11, several Protec building inspectors and staff photographers, including this author, were contracted by demolition teams to document the deconstruction and debris removal processes at Ground Zero. These processes included the mechanical pull-down of the remains of the U.S. Customs Building (WTC 6) and various other activities occurring simultaneously throughout the site. Our teams took thousands of photographs and personally examined untold amounts of debris, including countless structural elements from WTC 1 and 2. While these photographs and video recordings were not originally intended to specifically prove or disprove evidence of explosive demolition, they do provide substantial visual evidence that relates directly to this analysis and place us in a position to speak first-hand of conditions on site rather than relying on outside testimony or hearsay. 

3. Protec has been given access to thousands of personal photographs taken by laborers and site foremen employed by the demolition companies responsible for deconstructing the Ground Zero site. The companies include Tully Construction, D.H. Griffin Wrecking, Mazzocchi Wrecking, Yannuzzi Demolition, Gateway Demolition and Manafort Brothers. (Any other demolition company claiming to have worked on the Ground Zero site either worked under the supervision of one of these firms or is misrepresenting their participation.) In addition, Protec documented the only public discussion of the 9/11 clean-up attended by all of the demolition teams (National Demolition Association Convention, Orlando, Florida, 4/22/03). While the original intent of Protec’s two-hour video was to archive the unprecedented challenges faced by these teams, various questions and commentary from the speakers are relevant to this analysis. 

4. Because building implosions are often promoted as live news events, Protec’s offices are equipped to record multiple television broadcasts at all times. Our company’s archived recordings of original news broadcasts from the morning of 9/11 begin well prior to the collapse of the first tower and continue uninterrupted beyond the collapse of WTC 7. These original unedited recordings have allowed us to compare and scrutinize the collapse of all three structures free from any possibility of image tampering or modification. In addition, we have examined dozens of freelance and amateur video recordings incorporated into various documentary programs chronicling 9/11 and studied countless ground-based and aerial images captured by private, press and government-contracted photographers.

Natalie -

The xbehome document is superb.  Everything that Brent Blanchard and Protec say about explosive demolitions agrees with my training, experience, and observations as a military demolitions expert, even if it does not agree with Lagomorph’s experience with firecrackers and sparklers.  But then, as a self proclaimed “expert welder”, Lagomorph did not recognize the clear marks of a cutting torch on a steel beam until I showed him photographs of a recovery worker at WTC doing an identical cut on an identical beam.

I have tried repeatedly to make the point that, in spite of all the Conspiracy Theorists (CT) vast pile of circumstantial evidence, conjecture, and dishonesty, there is nothing that looks like explosives or thermite in the very large visual record from 09/11.  It is like talking to a bunch of loquacious turnips.  Lagomorph, Frog, and their ilk are motivated by their leftist ideologies, the hell with facts.

Blanchard and Protec confirm all of my arguments, but will not penetrate Lagomorph’s ignorance.  But the Protec data is a timely and valuable contribution to the 09/11 record.

Indeed, scorp—your analysis, based on personal relevant experience, has been spot on, and is a very valuable and much appreciated contribution to the debunking of these fantasies and myths.

You’re right.  Probably nothing will ever be quite good enough to claim the million dollars.  Sorry Brent.

I can’t stand wading through the Bat Shit and Corpses so shall just post this in answer to the most disgusting slander which has now made this thread too rank for further consideration.  You guys sure do bring the tone of the place down Batgirl and Scorpse.

I keep hearing accusations of Holocaust Denial and anti-semitism being hurled about like some primitiv shotgun defence against all Israeli actions and have this to say about it.

Holocaust denial as such is a small group of stooges who are mostly fake plants to derail any historical study of the Holocaust. I don’t know anybody who denies the Nazi holocaust of Jews occurred. The term holocaust denier is as fake as Anti-semitic. It is a strawman accusation. Just as anti-semite is both a misnomer and an over used label, so too is holocaust denial.

I am quite sure that Hitler’s Nazis targeted the Jewish people, and it seems probable that millions of them were killed, just as homosexuals, gypsies and various other minorities were selected for wiping out.

All my curiosity is aroused when we have a situation where a question may not be asked. What is this stuff with banning by law even, the study or discussion of the history which despite the public perception, is definately not well documented. It would shock most people to know how little actual evidence, even witness ever existed for some of the most extreme details.

The source for the six million jews killed is basically One Jewish historian/investigator’s figure and it has never been corroberated in any way. Polls of Jews in Europe before and after WWII showed much less difference than would be expected, nowhere near the number supposedly killed even, let alone allowing for emigration to the Middle East. One of many strange anomalies which face any researcher of the history via records.

There are extensive Red Cross reports available from the Concentration camps during and after the war and there is NO mention of any genocide. NOTHING in thousands of pages of reports mentions any evidence of Genocide.
The official figure of Jews killed in the camps has actually been lowered to 3 million, with no fanfare or adjustment in the usual quoted figure, which is actually a number of biblical significance and was selected by the Zionists for this reason, but that’s a longer story.

None of the leaders like Churchill or Chamberlain or others ever made a mention of any Jewish Holocaust in their own memoirs. Doesn’t that seem a bit odd?

These are some of the things which raise questions about the Jewish holocaust by Nazis, they don’t amount to denial, they are facts and what one does with them is the point. I accept that there are many irregularities in the account generally accepted. How unusual is that when it comes down to anything one studies past the veneer of general knowledge? ,These and many other anomalies do force an open minded person to reject much of the story as it is told.

Now it is true that some moron neo-nazi types and others who are just so pissed off with Israel do deny the Jewish Holocaust by Nazis occurred and they falsely attribute their beliefs to these anomalies and questions. For them these things are convenient but they don’t invest any intellect, it is merely bigotry in action. Too many others who are rightly critical of Israel, like most Zionist supporters are as brainwashed into believing Jews equals Israel. This is not the case, Many Jews are informed enough to reject the biblical claim by Zionists for Israel as being illegitimate or they are civilised enough that they rise above the more primitiv and bloodthirsty literal interpretation of their Scriptures.

This is a critical understanding and anyone who mistakes Israel as a true representative even of Judaism is as wrong as those who attribute all Muslims or all Christians with the Fundamentalist brush because of a large body of extreme fundamentalists within their number.

Israel is a fake! It is an usurper and has no biblical claim to the land it occupies. It is a proxy western forward phalange state formed by force of arms and maintained by force of arms. Israel is anathema to the mythical panorama into which it has supplanted itself.

It is a foreign occupier with blasphemy on its lips.

Israel is not all about jews. Israel is an extremist Jewish Apartheid state, with its only connection to the middle East beyond sixty years of enforced existence, being its name which is taken from the bible.

The truth and it is profoundly important to all this, is that the Jews who form the defining class of Israel, the ones who “fled” the Holocaust of EUROPE to found this land based on a biblical principle, are NOT the Jews of that same story. They are Khazars of Eastern Europe. Coming from Mongolia and Russia basically, they converted to Judaism instead of the two other monotheistic religions of their neighbors either side, Islam and Christianity. Both these latecomers were thriving by the time the Ashkenazi Jews came into being. These European Jews have no more right to the inheritance of the chosen people of the mostly mythical and wholly untrustworthy Bible, than any other race except the semitic peoples, whose history in Palestine goes back almost three thousand years of continuous occupation.

These people include Muslims, though their ancestors would have been Jewish in many cases, Jews, Christians and Druze. These same people are the true semites and incredibly they are the very victims, even the Semitic Jews are second class in Israel, of these Israelis who claim the full master race, exceptionalist status which a literal reading religious doctrine allows. A whole lot of Christians are equally mesmerised by this most preposterous pantomime, which is seriously stoking the flames of the problems these usurpers have been creating in the Mid East for sixty years now.

The Holocaust story is like the 9/11 story, of ultimate importance to understanding the later events. The so called War On Terror, which is a war on Islam it cannot be seriously denied. Sure the aggressors can label their victims whatever they like, Terrorists, Hun, Gooks..........all intended to dehumanise them and insulate our sensibilities. But the Muslims know, they can see as clear as day that this is a war on them.

9/11 with its farcical cover up and so many cracks showing in its unlikely myth was the single enabling event, of the War On Islam. It is only natural that a sceptical and curious person should question something of such profound significance, especially when it must seem obvious to even the most fleeting of glances that much is not right about the story. The 9/11 truth movement is not a marginal or fading phenomenon. It is supported by more and more qualified and intelligent people and the questions asked have always been unanswerable by the official myth. It is not wrong nor is it foolish to question what happened, and any proper questioning will soon give more than enough reason to realise you are being lied to by the powers that dictate such public information..

All the answers may not be available and nobody is suggesting planes were not hijacked and buildings didn’t burn a bit or fall down, but the reasons these things happened and even exactly what happened and how are not what you have been told. If 9/11 was not what we were told, and it is not, then the whole remaining ongoing disaster of this War On Islam becomes wrong! wrong! wrong!

Exactly what we all instinctively know anyway.
The same thing is apparent if one looks at the so called holocaust and it’s actual reasons and causes in historical context and with the facts as they are known in front of us. Nobody is denying that the Jewish Holocaust by Nazis as such did occur with masses of Jews being targeted, but the reasons were not at all a simple racial hatred due to some inherant bigotry within German society or Hitlers weird mind. The means and methods were not exactly on the scale or as exclusively without precedent as we are led to believe and there were in fact Zionists behind the scenes all along who could have ensured the survival of most if not all of the Jews who eventually perished. These people chose to see the Holocaust occur, a LIHOP operation in a sense, so as to ensure the conditions they needed to create the Zionist state which was but a gleam in their eyes at that time.

If one fully understands what is known of the events and people involved then some very profound questions are raised. Not only about Israel and its creation but also about it’s right to exist by force and international carte blanche, which seems to be the case.

Perhaps it makes more sense now why the whole thing about discussing or investigating the so called holocaust is so unique in being banned. I say so called Holocaust because I can recognise the dangerous controlling extremism of allowing this one event to usurp a term which refers to the massive and indiscriminate killing of a whole lot of people of any race or religion, but in becoming THE Holocaust the Nazi Holocaust of Jews displaces others’ suffering in a way which can be seen clearly in the incredible denial of Lebanese suffering and the whining about being the real victims by the Zionist master race and it’s supporters. There is no sense that others too can suffer greatly, and certainly nothing they ever do could be considered wrong, since they are the people of THE HOLOCAUST.

Exceptions who can do anything at all because they bear the mark of suffering for the whole race.

I understand that increasingly many people are becoming so infuriated, so disgusted by these hubristic fools that they would deny the Nazi Jewish Holocaust out of spite. I reject any diminishing of the suffering of those who perished, but as with the 3000 victims of 9/11 I do not believe they are being honoured by the falsification or hijacking of their story for pruposes of more bloodshed which has been the case in both instances.

I am simply and without prejudice, equally without favour, pointing out the facts which should be considered when you wish to make justifications for either the War on Terror or the State of Israel’s actions.

Calling people names in response to legitimate questions may help you avoid facing truths which may challenge your own narcissistic state of hubristic ignorance, but it doesn’t answer the questions and claerly shows how uncomfortable they make you.  If you truly have the answer then you have no fear of the question.

The fear, more like sheer terror you have of the questions about 9/11, just like the terror of questions about the Nazi holocaust of Jews prove that you do not have the answers, or that the answers are not what you would like.

You proved to me how completely bereft of even personal honesty you are by avoiding in the most craven manner the simple question I put which put 9/11 in perspective to the whole War on Islam.  I will not play games anymore and describe this ongoing aggression as a War on Terror.  It is creating terror on a massive scale and is fanning the flames of Muslim fundamentalism and all manner of religious fundamentalism.  It is based on a grand decpetion, based on a lie.  The whole war is a lie in its choice of the label Terrorist this time for all those who oppose it.  It is in effect and in thinly disguised rhetoric a War proper upon Islam and all it’s adherants.  It is not in its end a racist war though, it is designed to engulf many more than just Muslims but for now they are a convenient starting point for numerous reasons.

You pair of morons look cute complimenting each other on each your own completely spurious faith filled accounts.

Scorpse’s wishful thinking:

circumstantial evidence, conjecture, and dishonesty

doesn’t seem very relevant next to just these questions.

(1) the impact of the planes cannot have caused enough damage to bring the buildings down, since the buildings were designed to withstand them (as Frank DeMartini, the project manager, has observed), the planes that hit were very similar to those they were designed to withstand, and they continued to stand after those impacts with negligible effects;

(2) the melting point of steel at 2,800*F is about 1,000*F higher than the maximum burning temperature of jet-fuel-based fires, which do not exceed 1,800*F under optimal conditions, so the fires cannot have caused the steel to melt, which means that melting steel did not bring the buildings down;

(3) UL certified the steel in the buildings up to 2,000*F for at least six hours before it would even significantly weaken, where these fires burned too low and too briefly--about one hour in the South Tower and one and a half in the North--to have even caused the steel to weaken, much less melt;

(4) if the steel had melted or weakened, the buildings would have displayed completely different behavior, with some asymmetrical sagging and tilting, which would have been gradual and slow, not the complete, abrupt, and total demolition that was observed;

(5) there was not enough kinetic energy for the collapse of one floor to bring about the collapse of the next lower floor, even if the impact of the planes and the ensuing fires had been enough to cause the steel to weaken, which means that, even if one floor had collapsed due to the impacts and the fires, that could not have caused lower floors to fall;

(6) there was not enough kinetic energy for the collapse of one floor to bring about the pulverization of the next floor, even if the impact of the planes and the ensuing fires had been enough to cause the steel to weaken and one floor to collapse upon another, which required a massive source of energy beyond any that the government has considered;

(7) the destruction of the South Tower in 10 seconds and of the North in 11 is even faster than free fall with only air resistance, which would have taken at least 12 seconds, which, as Judy Wood has emphasized, is an astounding result that would have been impossible without extremely powerful explosives;

(8) the towers are exploding from the top, not collapsing to the ground, where the floors do not move, a phenomenon that Judy Wood has likened to two gigantic trees turning to sawdust from the top down, which, like the pulverization of the concrete, the official account cannot possibly explain;

(9) pools of molten metal were found at the subbasement levels three, four, and five weeks later, an effect that could not have been produced by the plane-impact/jet-fuel-fire/pancake collapse scenario, which, of course, implies that it was not produced by such a cause;

(10) WTC-7 came down in a classic controlled demolition at 5:20 PM/ET after Larry Silverstein suggested the best thing to do might be to “pull it”, displaying all the characteristics of classic controlled demolitions, including a complete, abrupt, and total collapse into its own footprint, where the floors are all falling at the same time, and so forth, an event so embarrassing to the official account that it is not even mentioned in THE 9/11 COMMISSION REPORT;

(11) the hit point at the Pentagon was too small to accommodate a 100-ton airliner with a 125-foot wingspan and a tail that stands 44 feet above the ground; the kind and quantity of debris was wrong for a Boeing 757: no wings, no fuselage, no seats, no bodies, no luggage, no tail! Which means that the building was not hit by a Boeing 757!

(12) the Pentagon’s own videotape does not show a Boeing 757 hitting the building, as even Bill O’Reilly admitted when it was shown on “The Factor”; but if a 155-foot long Boeing 757 had hit the building, it should have been present and visible; it was not, which means that the building was not hit by a Boeing 757!

(13) the aerodynamics of flight would have made the official trajectory--flying at high speed barely above ground level--physically impossible; and if it had come in at an angle instead, it would have created a massive crater; but there is no crater and the government has no way out, which means that the building was not hit by a Boeing 757!

(14) if Flight 93 had come down as advertised, then there would have been a debris field of about a city block in size, but in fact the debris is distributed over an area of about eight square miles, which would be explainable if the plane had been shot down in the air but not if it had crashed as required by the government’s official scenario.

There are more, especially about the alleged hijackers, including that they were not competent to fly the planes; their names were not on any passenger manifest; they were not subject to any autopsy; several have turned up alive and well; the cell phone calls appear to have been impossible; and so on.  This thread is old and ironically all the information about these things can be found in my first five posts.  You have failed to answer even one of these 14 points reasonably, ignoring most of them.  Exactly the way I predicted. 

Considering all you have is a few bits of circumstantial evidence and Cheney’s disputed word for what happened on 9/11 I’d say your own claim for facts is the most farcical imaginable.  You don’t even have ANY credible evidence for the FBI to list OBL as the PERP.  No provable theory about how the buildings fell down. Do you know an experiement was tried in England the other day with fires in a skyscraper to se what efffect it might have with a view to understanding 9/11?  Well guess what, nothing happened to support the fairy story!

With the vast body of verified facts which dispute your funny fairy tale of magic arabs, that you can flick all that off and turn to your own little mud pie pf a case is pathetic, but exactly what the biggest idiots on the planet would be expected to do.  It isn’t as if we have seen sub-human morons at large before.

I call you sub-human morons advisedly and feel far from being ad-hominem it is an accurate description.

Your status as morons has been long since established and I feel no further word needs to be said about it.

You support without reservations or reconsideration any cause which could result in more death or destruction or human suffering.  In all the time I’ve know you Nat and Scorp the only issues you care about (except Scorp who exists to be right about something, anything, one day) are those that involve poisons, banned wepons of war, torture and illegal detainment, war upon people without any regard to any sort of justification or humanity, it is all the same, you support the most evil and like all tyrannical filth over the ages, you claim the moral high ground.

Your bleating claims of righteousness and justice are the same sort of foul hypocritical mouthings spewed forth by all great monsters in history.  It is only when you are finally trapped in the corner of ignominious failure that we will see the horns sprout and the real venomous KILL EVERYONE CRUSH! KILL! DESTROY! mentality which writhes and squirms around in your foully twisted minds.

You are the monsters!  It is you who are doing all the killing, nobody else is doing anything but defending themselves from you, and history will not be kind to you, of this you can be assured.

Keep on whistling in the encroaching darkness WTH, keep on telling yourself it will all come good in the end.  It will not come good, until the evil which you have allowed to become your master has finally been defeated.  I don’t know what makes you think any help is on the horizon.  Your masters have no qualms about plunging the world into a war which wiser heads know nobody will win, because they are as confident of their paper plans as they were before they invaded Iraq.  The level of deception is such that they don’t even realise how badly they are losing in the Mid East or the remaining world.  They seriously think that they can win a war with China.  You only have to go back to tehir own stated intentions to see they had this in mind all along too.  They always planned to go Iraq, Iran and Syria and they always planned to carve up Lenanon for Israel, I’m sorry if you don’t rad what your own leaders write when they are not just trying to snowjob the sheeple like yourselves.  They count on the fact that none of their supporters are the sort who would ever read their documents so their plans are all out in the open for those who wish to be informed to see.  They care not a bit, for they are completely confident that idiots like you will support them without ever caring to confirm or deny anything except what they tell you to believe. They are not smart but they are smarter than their followers for sure. 

The rest of us watch with frustration and bemusement this mass insanity unfolding.

The Scorpling has outdone himslef again.

After having fumbled and fiddled about with the most basic facts about explosives and demolitions, and then as he has read more and copied bits out of sources his boasts about his qualifications and experience have gone from originally having helped someone do some metal cutting, to now he is claiming to have “training, experience, and observations as a military demolitions expert”

Piss of you stupid litle man!  You made an ass of yourself al the way down from your first ignorant litle statement which was that you knew of “no difference between military demolitions and Civilian”.  Your very own words! You made also a series of false presumptions about Thermite and several other types of explosives which the Bang Bunny quickly used to show what a cracked pot you are.

Now you have morphed into the original Military Explosives and Demolitions expert.

Now I could probably pull off such a fake myself Scorpse, but for you I’d say better stick with the cowboy hat or the clown suit.

You forget you already bombed out of explosives early on. Now you’re back for a second bite of the same rotten fruit, what a Moron!

A moron who actually knows so little about explosives he cannot admit at the very least all the collapses were consistent with explosive demolitions.  uh ha!  No other evidence is necessary to conclude this much than to see them fall down.  Yet the great Military Demolitions expert, Scorpse McGiver, says they didn’t look like explosives demos.

You are as always quite a giggle Scorpy.

I see you really impressed Kal from Kansas too.  He couldn’t even take you seriously, but who can except a desperate Shilling Fruit Bat?

Not least of the things which make your new found “Military Explosives” expertise claims such a joke is that you see two perfectly normal plane crashes when the planes fly into the WTC’s.  WRONG!

Both those planes crashes were normal only from the point of view of MOVIES! The planes in the movies always crash with big instant fireballs, and so do the cars.

The people who make those “special effects”, such people as the rabbit, can tell straight away that both those planes had some extra help in exploding like that.  Another group who would have to be as aware as Pyrotechnicians of how plane and car crashes look in reality, would surely be Military Explosives experts.  That you can’t see that much even, is all I need to know that you are completely full of it you poor resentful Scorpse.

If you don’t want to look like an idiot, don’t ever claim knowledge of something about which you know nothing Scorp, when you are in company of people who really do.

You just try and find how many planes have crashed and burst into fireballs like those two did.  Just you see how many times that happens.  I don’t mean crash and burn, then explode, but actually crash and then instantly explode in a fireball.  If you find one, I’ll be surprised if it isn’t just a break up, followed by a rolling fireball as the fuel tanks rupture.  If you find two I’ll be really surprised.

Of course in trying you will probably come up with some entirely different types of explosions without even realising which will give me an opportunity to further demostrate your lack of even the understanding of different explosions.  Watching movies doesn’t inform you of anything.

The one I love above all other scraps of misinformation is the old, “don’t cut that wire, it might have a mercury switch” line.  It might have a mercury switch, which only means that moving the bomb may be hazardous to one’s health.  Beyond that cutting a wire is about the best way to disarm any bomb unless it has a relay to guard against that very act, in which case it would be your last.

Let me give you a broad hint Scorpling since you seem to be desperately trying to belittle my experience as a proffessional fireworks operator and pyrotechnician.  In this tricky world of ultra syrveillance and paranoia it would be unwise of anyone to lay claim to any experience in the field of “rendering things into much smaller and more widely dispersed formats” using high energy reactions.  What the rabbit has told of his experience is all he desires to make known, but it does not have to mean it is the whole story or even all there might be of consequence. 

What can you tell us about shaped charges Scorpy?
Scorpy you spoke of Thermite only being able to cut downwards, did you get that idea from the educational video which took commercially available loose thermite and ignited it in a loose batch?
How might you cut down a one foot pine tree, with what and how many turns?
How would ‘you’ spike a 155mm Gun barrel Scorpy?
How many seconds interval can one adjust on an M1 grenade Scorpy?
Has Scorpse ever used those nifty little pencil timing dets?

The important thing for you to know is that you are not capable of making any ground against the rabbit on issues to do with such things.  You are dangling in the wind for me to kick at leisure while you insist upon pretending to be a “Military Demolitions and Explosives Expert”.

More on that Poll Batgirl shot herself in the foot with.

30% of Americans don’t know what year 9/11 was in! What’s the bet they all go with the fairy tale? Their opinion about what happened should be useful.

Presbyterian Press prints book accusing the Bushling of being behind 9/11. That must really make you gnash your fangs in fury Batgirl.  Now you have got to sling shit at the Presbyterians!  God how that must irk you!

Time for a cartoon.

Natalie -

Jackpot!  We write a few sentences, and Lagomorph goes off on pages and pages of incoherent babble.  Well, that keeps him busy, anyway. 

Do you think Lagomorph has actually read anything we have said, or any of the documentation we have provided?  I don’t think so.  In his 2:57 AM post above, item (2), Lagomorph is still talking about jet fuel not melting steel; but that has not been a serious argument for three or four years.  Neither you nor I have raised that issue, and Lagomorph does not address the issues we do raise.  Consequently, he makes absurd arguments about nothing. 

And then Lagomorph comes up with this little gem:

(7) the destruction of the South Tower in 10 seconds and of the North in 11 is even faster than free fall with only air resistance, which would have taken at least 12 seconds, which, as Judy Wood has emphasized, is an astounding result that would have been impossible without extremely powerful explosives;

Quite apart from the fact that air resistance is negligible in this circumstance (low velocity and high density are factors), hypothetical explosives mounted on the columns would have net zero effect on the rate of fall of the mass.  If the explosives were mounted on top of the columns, then the columns would be driven down faster than the velocity due to gravity, but I think that is not what is being argued, though it is somewhat difficult to determine what it is that the leftist nutcakes are arguing. 

And of course there is zero evidence of explosives, powerful or otherwise, whether mounted on, or atop, or under, the columns or anywhere else at WTC.  If there had been explosives, particularly “extremely powerful” explosives, you might have expected to see windows blowing out at lower levels in the Towers, or blast and explosive expulsions of debris, particularly through the gaping holes where the damage occurred, but there is nothing like that anywhere.  All that is to be seen is the disintegration of the building from the point of damage.

Maybe if Lagomorph actually read xbehome he could come up with a coherent statement of what he thinks, but don’t count on it.

Rabbit,

You must realize you do have an advantage over most of us — you still have that decoder ring you got by sending in a cereal box top and a few cents.  Mine is long gone.

Hold the phones, people.  I know this sounds strange coming from me, but there does seem to be some pretty compelling evidence for if nothing else, calling into question the conclusions of the 9/11 commission.  If they got this wrong about the planes, who’s to say what else they might have missed:

“Get ready to go through the looking glass here, people,” Stone told reporters at a Manhattan press conference before an advance screening of the movie, which premieres Wednesday. “The film you are about to see is going to blow the lid off the 9/11 Commission’s official report and expose a conspiracy that reaches the highest levels of government.”

World Trade Center, which stars Nicolas Cage as a dedicated Port Authority officer who stumbles on secret evidence amid the rubble and carnage of the terrorist attack, tells a story quite different from what Stone called “the official government line” about the event.

“Jackpot!  We write a few sentences, and Lagomorph goes off on pages and pages of incoherent babble.  Well, that keeps him busy, anyway.”

Incoherent yes, but my question is just how is he able to exceed the 4000 character limit?  Is that a function of the decoder ring I was unaware of?

Natalie,

My out of date browser won’t let me into the Onion link you sent. Too bad since I just realized this has to be one of the Rabbit’s fountains of truth.

His decoder ring can take any rational report and convert it to his standard of acceptability by filtering out anything which doesn’t fit his scheme of life and at times simply reversing his brain polarity.  Up is down, left is right, good is evil, etc.

I have lost interest in trying to communicate anything of substance on this issue, but I am curious…

Why does someone who thinks our government is capable of the most despicable schemes think they need an excuse to go to war.  He clings to the idea that 9/11 was a total scam (which was years in the planning) just for that purpose.

And — he is willing to accept photos on the internet as evidence.

For years anyone with PhotoShop has been able to turn Madonna into the Pope or anything else imaginable. For that matter, people can doctor anything written by adding subtracting or just plain making up fairytales and post it to the world.  It is next to impossible to track down all of the crap out there.

It is entertaining though, at times. :-)

Natalie -

4000 character limit?  I don’t know and I don’t worry about it.

I find it much more interesting that KansasKal came from nowhere, agreed totally with Lagomorph on all things, also evaded the 4000 character limit (the only other poster that has done so, I believe), had an Australian Flag logo in spite of being from the USA, and then presented a pre-emptive argument that he was really using an Australian website while visiting Thailand (!) to explain why an American was posting under an Oz flag! 

Then when I pointed out that Lagomorph was, in reality, posting as Kansas Kal, and acting schizo for his multiple personalities, Lagomorph got a buddy in the USA to post under the KansasKal handle, complete with American flag logo.

Lagomorph has posted under at least four names, Rabbit, Rabbit Vox, Ghost Rabbit, and KansasKal.  By his own admission, he has been kicked off ITT website twice, but it was the fault of people like you and me.  It is a symptom of Lagomorph’s personality disorder that he is incapable of taking responsibility for his own actions, and that he adopts different persona when he gets himself into trouble.

People such as Lagomorph are ideal dupes for the Conspiracy Theorists: limited intelligence, gullible, disturbed, unoriginal, and open to suggestion.

Ah yes, scorp, ever brilliant.  Rabbit is a rather talented story teller, and is certainly capable of posing as someone who is measured and relatively polite.  Two posts coming from Oz that both for some reason know how to exceed the character limit, a common trait.  (In fact, I noticed Rabbit a while back exceeding the limit with a big block quote)

“Kal” did seem very programmed and somehow phony, saying everything a certain someone would want him to say.

And then, how easy would it be for him to contact someone in the U.S., provide “Kal"s password (I believe ITT doesn’t allow registering two IDs from the same IP address—Rabbit could be using two computers, home & office), and that someone helps him pull off the illusion that Kal’s back from a business trip.

Wiley?

Are you a good witch, or a bad witch?  Kal seems to share your interest in the “airlines”, and also your distaste for my seemingly “endless” posts.

Wow.  Conspiracy theories are fun.  I can see how one could get addicted. ;-)

WTH

The small silly comments by you are really pathetic and thus attaching yourself to the degraded characters of two berserk morons is hardly good for your own at least partially respectably image, I have to tell you.

Since I only deal with facts and measured opinions, and have amassed a completely logical case against the faith based screechings and spurious prattlings and hollow rhetoric of two fools who are completely devoid of support from any quarter, your pathetic attempts to belittle the rabbit backfire upon your own selves.  You make farcical, claims which can only be seen as self ironic.  The whole thread stands as testimony to what is.  You turkeys would post such mind numbingly faked claims of achievment as if this will be the only thing anyone reads?  Once people go back to look for this supposed documentation you have provided, and find your funny little theorising, mostly emotional, irrelevant bits and pieces interspersed with things which severely damage your own case, proving you are the ones who read nothing.  Then they see exactly why I and others treat you with such contempt.

Your babbling on about 4000 word limits is hilarious.  Just like all new developments in life you clowns miss it.  Talk about slow learners! Actually others have indeed gone past the 4000 word limit, since the editing option was added all limits are off.  What morons!  Now you are going to dribble about like the feeble little punks you are speculating about the rabbit being someone else. The last refuge of the internet loser, is to start the sort of antics you sad sad beings are now into.

It doesn’t take me long to post to you morons, as it happens so don’t flatter yourselves that I bother to do it properly and thoroughly fom time to time.

Youa re right though Scorpy, I don’t read much of what you dimwits post anymore, I stopped that a while back your just stuck on denial so what is the point?

You keep claiming there is NO evidence of explosives when there is actually a sizeable body of evidence, including chemical analysis which has been done since the things you are quoting were written.  So you are as usual denying things off the top of your head, withot even having the background or looking at the source and reports to know.  You rest your whole persoanl illusion of success upon having established some doubt about a single photo which is the least compelling evidence of about a dozen separate issues.  To claim there is nothing when indeed a good deal exists and has been repteatedly refferred to in this thread, is the height of deluded behaviour.

WTH
I can see that I was right and as usual your hopeful delusions failed. WTH.  When will you learn?

I told you Bush would simply ignore or cancel the Supreme Court decision on Geneva conventions.

You babbled on from the very first case of torture and atrocities committed by US troops that it was once off, then you changed to a few bad apples, then you ended up by saying well at least the USA invesigates it and so on. I told you all along that the USA was no different with the same failings and imperfections as all others, which means you have absolutely no moral justification for your claims of US exceptionalism.  You said I love terrorists.  Now since your denial began, we have discovered the abuse is widespread after all, that it is being as actively covered up and was actually FAR worse in Vietnam than ever known about, including those who spoke out and had been labelled liars by an “ungrateful country” ever since.  We learn what is more that over the time of US military atrocities, there has been next to NO punishment of the perpetrators.  So your whole argument of exceptionalism is defunct, just like I told you from the start!

You denied all along that the USA under Bush was committing war crimes, and that the Geneva conventions on’t apply if Bush says they don’t.  The Supreme court case soon disabused you and Bush of that notion, and you never missed a beat in your striding hubris but stated well that just proved the USA was a law abiding nation and Bush would now comply with the law.  I told you that is bullshit and that Bush would waste no time in undermining that finding, and this was borne out in the record number of signing statements among other actions.  All you could manage was to ramble on like a one track record about the actual definition of signing statements. 

Now Bush has a team of lawyers working flat out at undermining the War Crimes Laws, he is EXACTLY as I told you cancelling any laws which he doesn’t like.  It doesn’t mater how many issues we care to revisit you deluded individual.  It matters not how much pompous rhetoric you can assemble,, you have ben consistently wrong about everything of importance being invariably reduced to locking in like a bulldog on some minor technical detail perhaps mere semantics, rather than face a realiy which is crucial to your whole illogical, stubborn mindset. 

As always you cannot even comprehend the irony of all this is that YOU are the one who is arguing in favour of increasingly horrendous and patently failing policies.  Everything your emperor is touching is turning to shit.  The USA is on a downward spiralling curve, following an insane imaginary war on everything into its own destruction.

You are so screwed and you don’t even realise it.

“For that matter, people can doctor anything written by adding subtracting or just plain making up fairytales and post it to the world.”

There’s certainly no arguing with that, WTH.  In fact, I’m quite confident that Rabbit’s quote supposedly from Menachem Begin was just that.....made up.

I came across this in reference to the quote:

Dear Archivist, Jimmy Carter Library

I have read an article by Texe Marrs that has the following passage:

No Basis for Peace

Begin, Carter recalled, believed the Jews were a Master Race, a holy people superior to Egyptians and Arabs. Begin also believed that God wanted the Jews to own the land, so there was absolutely no basis for peace. The Jews lusted after the land and intended to have it. Period.

******

Texe Marrs does not reference the above as a quote nor as a footnote.

My question is did President Carter write the above in his memoirs?

Thank you for any help you can give me to ascertain the truth in this matter.

Reply follows:

Dear Kirk:

Archivist, Jimmy Carter Library

(emphasis added by the Fruit Bat.) mmmm.......fruit

Natalie -

Did you ever read the The Caine Mutiny?  It was one of the best novels to come out of WWII, and was made into a movie starring Humphrey Bogart.  Captain Queeg, in command of the USS Caine, was in way over his head, and compensated for his many weaknesses by fixating on minutiae. 

In the middle of the war, and in the middle of the South Pacific, the Officer’s Mess on the Caine was able to get a gallon of frozen strawberries, a rare treat in that time and that place.  Late that night, Captain Queeg went by the mess to have another serving of strawberries, and they were nowhere to be found.  (The mess boys ate them.) Infuriated, Captain Queeg set up an investigation into what happened to the missing strawberries, and involved all the officers on the Caine in the investigation.  Among the items that had to be checked out were keys; every key of every nature of every person on the ship was rounded up to see if it fit the food locker.  Captain Queeg insisted that he could factually, logically, inexorably, determine what had happened to the strawberries through his superior deductive logic, and all his officers were idiots and unsupportive of his goals.  Remind you of anyone?

Since I only deal with facts and measured opinions, and have amassed a completely logical case against the faith based screechings and spurious prattlings and hollow rhetoric of two fools who are completely devoid of support from any quarter, your pathetic attempts to belittle the rabbit backfire upon your own selves.

Natalie -

Lagomorph has your answer.  You write 10,000 words, post 3,999, and edit in the remainder. 

Too bad Lagomorph has nothing worthwhile to write about.

A special bit of a wacking for the Corpse.

Quite apart from the fact that air resistance is negligible in this circumstance (low velocity and high density are factors),

Ah but little Scorpy there would be “some” air resistance, surely you know that the figure for gravity assumes a vacuum, which is not the case on the earth, we have air resistance and the important thing is that it was a plus factor, it would increase the time from perfect gravity calculations which are what the scxientists are working with. Further more I recall you have had to theorise the exploding windows and ejected debris which precedes the collapses by several stories is actually caused by air pressure from the collpasing upper stories....get it?  To be able to create sufficiant force to pop windows and eject debris, then a good deal of air pressure would need to be developed.  That means that you cannot have your cake and eat it too.  In fact in a real debate, that fact just eliminated you in the first round.  But there is no end to your doomed denial.

So you see little morons, either the exploding widndows and sideways ejected debris from the collapsing buildings is evidence of considerable air resistance, or it is evidence of explosives. 
Take your pick!

hypothetical explosives mounted on the columns would have net zero effect on the rate of fall of the mass. 

True Scorpy but REAL explosives mounted on the columns would have have the desired effect of removing all resistance and allowing gravity to act alone.  However another proof you know nothing about demolitions is that a properly exceuted demo can actually speed the fall up a bit probably by a temporary displacement of air and a virtual vacuum which exists just at the end of each explosive breakout.  The very best come down in almost exactly gravity or even a little faster than even theoretical gravity (Which still only exists in avaccum) One of the buildings came down in what was apparently a bit faster than normal atmospheric gravity would allow.  Another “proof” of explosives when it is eventually looked at in a proper investigation.

the explosives were mounted on top of the columns, then the columns would be driven down faster than the velocity due to gravity, but I think that is not what is being argued, though it is somewhat difficult to determine what it is that the leftist nutcakes are arguing. 

Actually Scorpy I don’t think anybody except you and Batgirl are having trouble following exactly what it is we are arguing.  We have made a simple to understand and completely sourced by verifiable facts case.  If you are having trouble understanding it is but an indigtment of your own poor intellect.  As for your ideas of what explosives would do if “mounted on the tops of collumns” (sic) you are just imaging this in your head and making it up as you go along aren’t you?  The tops of columns is a misleading statement.  Explosives are a force which expnads in ALL directions equally.  It will apply the same force in all directions from the top, or the bottom of any column.  Since the supporting structure went all the way from top to bottom of the building, the top of any column is a relative term.  In fact to achieve what was a reverse implosion, top down instead of bottom up, the exlosives charges would have been set the same as normal, but fired in reverse sequence, it is as simple as that.

In demolitions of skyscrapers little Scorpy the wannabe bang bunny, it is actually of no real consequence which direction you do this in, as each floor (usually) is treated as an entity to be cracked completely and thus offering no resistance to the downward force which will be accelerating at the same rate as gravity dictates, whether it begins falling from the top, or from the bottom.  Or are you now going to tell us you think it would fall faster from the botom, since the top is heavier?  If you believe this it will be the icing on the rabbit’s cake.

And of course there is zero evidence of explosives, powerful or otherwise, whether mounted on, or atop, or under, the columns or anywhere else at WTC.  If there had been explosives, particularly “extremely powerful” explosives, you might have expected to see windows blowing out at lower levels in the Towers, or blast and explosive expulsions of debris, particularly through the gaping holes where the damage occurred, but there is nothing like that anywhere. 

That paragraph is completely phony Scorpy.  The ejected debris and breaking windows of the collapsing skyscrapers is something which certainly Batgirl has tried to argue was pressure from the collapse, though I think you did too.  It isn’t in dispute you moron.

I guess the self abuse you are indulging in ignoble and unwise trolls, is the best that you’ve got, when all else fails put your hands over your pointy little ears and scream Rabbit is an idiot, rabbit is an idiot.  nya nya nya.

Explosive Events in the Twin Towers

While the explosive nature of the events that destroyed the Twin Towers is evident in their gross features such as the mushrooming of the tops and the huge clouds of concrete dust produced in the air, there are many specific observations that point to the detonations of explosions within the towers.

Eyewitness Reports

Many eyewitnesses who were near the South Tower when it began its precipitous collapse reported sights and sounds of explosions. Several accounts are described in the evidence section.

Energetic Ejections of Dust and Objects

Explosive ejection of dust early in the collapse of the South Tower is clearly visible in the NBC video taken from far to the east, and in still frames from that video.  In addition to the large ejections of white dust from the left wall, the video shows a small high-speed ejection toward the back of the right wall, visible as a small white fleck in the first frame to the right.

Many of the photographs
of the tower collapses show solid objects, such as sections of steel columns and aluminum cladding of the outer walls, being thrown ahead of the expanding dust cloud. This pattern is characteristic of explosive demolitions. According to Chapter 1 of FEMA’s own report pieces of the steel columns and plates of the perimeter walls were thrown over 500 feet from the towers. The distribution pattern they diagram suggests that, with both towers, perimeter wall pieces were thrown an average of about 150 to 200 feet outward. This is corroborated by the shape of the vertical holes in WTC 6.

South Tower Demolition Wave

A three-second movie shows about 2.5 seconds of the South Tower collapse starting at about three seconds into the plunge of the tower’s top. The short movie shows the roughly spherical debris cloud nearly double in size, even accounting for the perspective. The leading edge of the wave is about to reach the 44th-floor sky lobby when the camera operator turns to run.

Any more delusions and bald faced lies Scorpy or would you just rather keep on with your endless attempts to wack the rabbit?

Shall I make a silly spelling error for you to play with little Scorpling?  Would that keep you amused for a page or two?

Don’t you think anybody notices that you mention Jet Fuel in a fake display of affrontery while once again avoiding facing up to the fact of molten steel under all three buildings?  At one time you denied any such existed.  Then I showed you it was not in dispute, and you have nothing more to say?  Pretty thin on the ground this great reasoned case you keep saying you have somewhere Scorp.  Pretty thin on facts is what it is.

Any ideas what melted the steel since we can at least agree it seems that no organic fuel could have done anything like it?  (Kerosene being the highest potential calorific output fuel supposedly available)

Don’t go getting all forgetful about the kinetic energy available being way short of the measured amount for pulverising all the concrete, let alone creating temperatures more than 1200 degC.

Don’t start rambling on about anything else you arrogant idiot!  Face the molten steel like a good little troll, and give us your best guess as to what caused it. If you can....................

Yes indeedy.  I can see the captain now, eyes firey red and hopping mad.

Looks like Rabbit has unwittingly provided us with good advice for analyzing the happenings of 9/11.  The simplest, most obvious and sensible explanations are usually the correct ones.

Of course.  The editing function.  Stupid brain.  And here I was worried about adding my (not so) little sig line to some of my posts on page 1 & 2 for fear of violating the limit, so I searched for short posts.  (But then again, they say 90 min.)