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i am surprised it took this long for someone to stand up & do someting about this
Posted by freejoehieronymus on Jul 17, 2006 at 9:32 AM
Litigation is a slow process.
My fear is that by the time this reaches the Supreme Court, the 2008 elections will be over and they’ll declare it moot.
We have to remember that the current Supreme Court is even worse than the one that stopped the Florida recount in 2000.
I’m happy to see this case filed
I live in San Diego and in November I took our Registrar of Voters to court, alleging that the machines were hackable and the chain of custody was not secure. I lost. Now that everything I alleged has been proven correct, I often wonder what that judge is thinking—if judges think. Maybe they just play golf and let their clerks do the thinking.
Posted by mymarkx on Jul 17, 2006 at 12:32 PM
Well…it looks good on paper…we .will just have to what and see….
My question is…” How do you stop the next guy ? “........
Posted by Redhorse on Jul 17, 2006 at 2:48 PM
The initial value is as a “shot across the bow.” Just making the injustice visible goes a long way toward stopping the election thieves.
Better would be for the Dem “leadership” to announce that they’ll be spending millions on hyper-accurate polling this time around.
The truth is that while the Blackwells and Harrises get most of the attention (mainly because they got caught) the bulk of the stealing happens in local areas controlled by the neofascists. These people are not part of some larger conspiracy. They just know what they can get away with and do it.
If it’s made clear that their “o-fishy-l” result will be challenged and investigated, they’ll simply chicken(hawk) out.
And another good preventative measure would be to make election fraud a capital crime (yes, really - we can commute the death sentence). Doing so would make it clear that an election is not a contest or competition—rather, it is a survey of what the consent of the governed is at a given time.
Posted by thedeanpeople on Jul 18, 2006 at 2:00 AM
Mymarkx,
Well Done for attempting it , you Pathfinder.
Thedeanpeople
Crazy system when you can get 17yrs for an eggcupfull of cocaine, and zero or tiny for election fraud.
I’m against capital punishment, but it would sure be a headline-grabber . Maybe we could settle for 20yrs on a chaingang, with a referendum to choose which State has the very worst , most inhumane, most privatisedly profitable to fascistical fatcats, penal system .
Now there’s an ideea with legs…................
I was going to ask WHY this took so long to come up, too . But maybe because so much so wrong, difficult to decide what to do first .... maybe people just waiting for someone else “higher up” the political spectrum to act….. and then realising , at last, that they were just sitting on their hands, with thumbs firmly entrenched you know where, and minds in neutral .
No time for more, just marking the spot to come back.
Posted by frog on Jul 18, 2006 at 2:57 AM
Redhorse thinks capital punishment is not a good think…but 20 years mandatory sounds about right…..even if this laws suit is a winner…I doubt anyone will do jail time…most likely write a book…dedicate it to Dick and Rummy and all of the gang….....
Posted by Redhorse on Jul 18, 2006 at 4:33 AM
Hi HORSE,
Small problem there, not enough room on one page to get all the scum on.
Congress has already thrown $300 mio at the ‘problem’, and missed.
Par for the course, what a bunch of wankers. More pork.
Any computerologist out there hypothesise why i’m flagged from germany instead of frogland?
wanadoo.fr is frog !
Posted by frog on Jul 18, 2006 at 5:35 AM
Frog,
Have you checked the to make sure there has been no invasion? Old habits are hard to break.
Perhaps they are using the new tech and have hacked into all the French deed records. Blitzkreig evolving into Blogkreig?
(A weak attempt to tie into the thread here.)
Posted by whattheheck on Jul 18, 2006 at 9:01 AM
WTH
I’d have you know we cheese-eaters only surrender on thursday afternoons, so we can have the long weekend.
I think its the chinese, as well as other laundry-money behind the toll-road and -bridge sell-off of the USA . ,
Actually a reverse- cunning plot,. Take their money, pocket 30% minimum for our sweet little selves, spend the rest like water while tax-cutting, for ourselves, and when it all goes belly-up exit to our fortified bunkers in sunny australia.
Well, I was just keeping it warm for Sally and you real amurricans.
Good luck to rfk jr.
BLOGKRIEG meinHerr ,—- Guido Fawkes, who tried to blow parliament on 5 nov 1605 , is back with new subversive tacktickery .
He borrowed this from Centcom or SouthCom, or that guy who makes policy on the back of a cig packet. Bliar is Ace of Spades
Tactics for getting out the home-crafted lightpole-friendly pro-quality “Sleaze News” —naming and shaming,
who will be phantom fly-posting first, WTH or frog ?
Neither. SALLY b wins.
Posted by frog on Jul 18, 2006 at 9:54 AM
What the? TOO COMPLEX! TOO COMPLEX! Corrupt republicans rely on democrats and other opponents to come up with complex solutions. Why? Simple: most people in general do not understand complex solutions thus they think they are wrong. Radical republicans and conservatives have a way of simplifying every thing in their favour. You want to stop them? Stop bitching, stop being confused, stop putting your heads between your knees start fighting every thing radical republicans preach.
Kennedy Jr. is on the right track but I dont see him asking us for help, this is a good thing. Let him deal with diebold let him stall them up with legal complexities, never the less no matter what last name he carries you wont stop diebold from hitting again like the last election.
So what do you do? How do you change stuff? It’s called focusing RAGE. Have you ever stood in a line for 13 hours? Most people have not done that, but for some strange reason it was very common among many democratic voters in the last election. HMMMMMM…what do the republicans feed off? Angry energy. ANGER AND RAGE.
Here is my simple way of putting it: no one likes to stand in line for 13 hours to use one or two machines and then not get their vote counted. No one likes to go through with that, and then have all the mainstream media ignore it. Take that rage, take that anger and turn it against the republicans. PROTEST! BOYCOUGHT! SCREAM! PREACH! SHUT DOWN EVERY THING! IGNORE WHAT FOX SAYS, IGNORE WHAT CNN SAYS, IGNORE WHAT WINNING REPUBLICANS SAY. STOP BEING AFRAID OF EMOTIONIAL BULLYING! START FIGHTING DONT SHUT UP SPREAD THE WORD WHEN THE NEXT ELECTION COMES AND THERE IS A FRAUD THERE SHOULD BE IGNITION OF RAGE!
317,000 people lost their votes? That
Stopcrying
Hang in here, mate., this thread will develop. . I’m not a Yank, just a brit longtime in france.
I feel your rage, without the 13 hours. Difficult to imagine for you, but I do.
I’m outside. I do my things here in frogland to fight the same motherfuckers.
Various tactics available.
HOW MANY PEOPLE can you mobilise ?
With all the good will in the world I’m no use to you. No sweat I’d be with you demonstrating, but I’m not there.
You can get a voting-machine for yourself and friends, but THEN no guarantee its not” fixed”.
TOO COMPLEX for simple people that the votes can be fixed afterwards ?
BULLSHIT. Simple people understand a lot, very fast.
Get your arse right behind RFK jr, and use your brain to do more than the utmost wherever you are. Get those neighbours together, light a FIRE.
Posted by frog on Jul 18, 2006 at 4:48 PM
40 or 50 of us packed the San Diego Board of Supervisors meeting this morning. Our signs said, “Dump Diebold!”
The Chair of the San Diego Democratic Party, the head of San Diego Metro Progressive Democrats of America, a Democratic Congressional candidate, a prominent journalist, the voter who had filed for a recount, and several others spoke to the Board and at the press conference we held afterwards. In the crowd were at least four Green Party members and at least two Republicans.
One person asked me why we weren’t in the streets in 2000 and 2004. I explained that some of us were in the streets, but the rest of us were looking to our leaders for guidance and it wasn’t forthcoming. It has taken us a while, but we have become the leaders we want. Of this morning’s group, perhaps even over fifty people, I didn’t see a single follower—leaders all!
We the people are finally realizing who we are. (Psssst! All you elected and appointed office holders, quit slacking off and get back to work—the boss is here!)
Another press conference is being planned for Friday at the Registrar of Voters office, and everyone is planning to keep coming to Board of Supervisors meetings.
Diane “Gail” Jacobsen, who had filed for a recount and been told by the Registrar to put up a $6,000 deposit before he’d reveal which of the documents he is required by law to supply, he might hand over, said, “I won’t buy a car sight unseen! First tell me what documents you intend to give me, then I’ll give you the deposit.”
Right on! We pay these folks’ salaries and they don’t want to even listen to us, no less represent us or act as civil servants. Well, we’re not buying any more unverifiable elections or unresponsive officials.
The eyes of the world are on San Diego. As Judy Hess, one of the organizers said, “We’re fighting this battle here, so that we don’t have to fight it there—435 Congressional Districts in November.”
Another person who was there this morning is an attorney who is one of the plaintiffs in another lawsuit in California. When RFK Jr’s lawsuit was mentioned, a cheer went up.
The despair is dissipating. Today is a weekday, a workday, and yet we got a crowd. The true sign of a participatory democracy is citizen participation. It is starting to happen here and it is awesome!
Posted by mymarkx on Jul 18, 2006 at 6:38 PM
mymarkx….excellent…but not wanting to spit in the wind…I saw nothing in the news of your protest….live in DC…stuff like that does get coverage here…but not today…I will keep an eye open for the story…curious if it will be covered….This Zionist attack on Lebanon…the news media propaganda is so thickly pro-Isreal…nothing else matters…..
Maybe the washington post will have a story tomorrow….
Posted by Redhorse on Jul 18, 2006 at 7:44 PM
mymarkx
Unfortunately , Moral support only from me.
Would love to send you $100 if you need it, but the banks would steal a goodly , LARGE, proportion on a Eurocheque.
RISE UP. The only way.
We frogs know it too. Enough people in the streets and the Mothas backtrack, for a WHILE .
Posted by frog on Jul 18, 2006 at 7:51 PM
Press coverage, Redhorse? I’m not expecting miracles here. The press was there, but what gets printed and aired is another story.
About 15 years ago, when the last semi-liberal talk show host went off the air in San Diego, I realized I was living behind a media iron curtain and I did what any freedom-loving person does in that situation: I bought a shortwave radio.
Since then I’ve gotten a computer and have myself become involved with Indy Media.
So while it would be darned nice if there’s some coverage from the propaganda press, I’ll continue to rely on email and blogs for my news, thank you. I get dispatches direct from Beirut so I couldn’t care less what the mainstream media is saying. If it’s news you want, check your local Indy Media site, which has links to Indy Media sites all over the world. Important articles posted locally by locals will be picked up and posted at larger Indy Media sites. Most articles will have links to list-serves you can subscribe to that will keep you current on any issue.
It may seem like spitting into the wind, but it is more like spitting into the ocean. However a drop of truth can be like oil on the water, spreading quickly, covering large areas, and calming stormy seas. It works for me.
Frog, I thank you for the moral support. We’re not asking for money. We’re asking for our tax money back because it was spent on hackable voting machines that don’t meet state or local standards for certification. This is consumer fraud writ large and we’ve got some very angry consumers here.
Posted by mymarkx on Jul 18, 2006 at 8:01 PM
MYMARKX
Press coverage.
THEY are trying to privatise our public hospital, so we “assembled”, as we do in France, and there was wonderful footage of the Regional hospital Director in complete disarray listening to a speech from a local councillor.
i was beside the TV cameraman who filmed it all, and did not even take out my cheapo job to get a still of that embarrassed face. Fool.
Zero on the TV news.
Lessons learned. We’ve been on the streets quite often for the past 18 months, and I always had the cheapo still camera.
That way any cop who got “excessive” could have been recorded.
Next time is 29july, and i will have a digital one, so can record independently of the MSM, and any shots of cop repression can be flashed around Normandy, france, the world..
Surveillance and technology work both ways.
PEOPLE SHOULD NOT BE AFRAID OF THE GOVERNMENT
THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD BE AFRAID OF THE PEOPLE.
The fight is the same all over the world, so I’m learning from what you are experiencing, and doing, to be prepared here.
They have already conducted pilots on electronic voting machines in other parts of France, and I DID NOT KNOW ! until I searched .
I am mailing the one State Rep , and the two Regional Reps I know personally, to warn them to keep their eyes and ears open.
I very much appreciated your
<blockquote>Of this morning
Posted by frog on Jul 19, 2006 at 12:52 PM
I’m 66 years old. A couple of months ago I went to only the second street demonstration in my entire life, a small protest in front of the Mexican consulate in support of the Zapatistas and the people of Atenco. I went both as a participant and also to help cover the event for Indy Media.
We chanted, read off the names of those imprisoned, and everything was fine. Then a police officer came over to try to clear a path on the sidewalk. He asked politely, “Who’s in charge here?”
And everyone yelled back in unison, “The people are in charge!”
It was a revelation for me. We the people, as they say in what Bush calls a piece of paper and we used to call our Constitution, actually in charge!
That’s how it was supposed to be. It may be a lost cause, but it always has been and still is the only thing worth fighting for. And I’m not going to stop fighting until either I can’t fight any more or the people are back in charge.
When you get your digital pictures, upload them to your computer, then go to your local Indy Media site, click “Publish,” type in what it is about, then scroll down to “Add media” and click “browse” and you’ll be able to upload your picture along with the story. It takes a few minutes, but soon it will appear on the “Newswire” on the right hand side, and if the editorial volunteers like it, they’ll make it into a feature in the center. The hospital assemblage would have made a great story.
BE THE MEDIA!
Posted by mymarkx on Jul 19, 2006 at 1:16 PM
At last, a conscience, and a Kennedy? Again?
Posted by neilemac on Jul 19, 2006 at 6:46 PM
Heh heh….. As an atheist all I can say is that I’m very glad that the Kennedy clan are Catholics. ;-)
Posted by mymarkx on Jul 19, 2006 at 6:56 PM
Mymarkx
I’m 59, and demonstrated in the early 1970’s, the first UK Miners’ Strike under Thatcher, and later got my jaw scientifically thumped by a cop in Trafalgar Square against Apartheid .
Last year , I got out there again after 32years. It felt very strange for a few minutes , as though I was making a complete fool of myself, but that wore off. Fast.
<blockquote>It may be a lost cause, but it always has been and still is the only thing worth fighting for. And I
Posted by frog on Jul 20, 2006 at 1:30 AM
POSTAL VOTING
Bliar encouraged this, ‘supposedly’ to increase turnout. Just goes to show that even with paper ballots, eternal vigilance needed.
Ms Alibhai-Brown: In the last election I went to all of our northern towns during the whole ten days of the election and followed the candidates. It was a very interesting experience because of the kinds of deals that were being done, and because I speak a number of Asian languages they could talk to me in those languages while they were saying something else publicly. All the public meetings were entirely male. Deals were being done as you watched, that “We will deliver all these votes to this particular party”. I asked some of the women whose homes I went into, “Who do you want to vote for? Who would you like to vote for in this?” “Oh, it is not up to us”. It is up to not the husband but, if you like, the henchmen who are constantly being named. Some of those henchmen have done very important deals one way or another. I think it should disturb us that we are not as good as we could be.
Posted by frog on Jul 20, 2006 at 4:25 AM
Frog, that’s only one of the problems with mail-in voting.
When you go to the polls to vote, there is a public list of voters and your name is crossed off or checked off. It is easy to tell how many people voted at each precinct.
With mail-in ballots, on the other hand, it is impossible to know how many were actually received. When Greg Palast’s team found thousands more absentee votes than registered absentee voters in one county, he noted that if ballots had been subtracted rather than added, nobody would have known about it.
Any process that is not transparent and open to public observation in an election must be suspect. Receiving, storing, and counting (or not counting, as the case may be) mailed-in ballots, is entirely in the hands of election officials and not open to public view.
In San Diego’s November ‘05 election, the votes counted publicly went for Donna Frye and against the Schwarzenegger initiatives. The early and absentee ballots, on the other hand, which were supposedly the bulk of the vote and which were counted secretly with no public observation permitted, went for Jerry Sanders (our new Mayor) and in favor of the initiatives. At least that’s what we’re supposed to believe. I’m not the only one who doesn’t happen to believe it.
Posted by mymarkx on Jul 20, 2006 at 4:52 AM
Sure Mymarkx,
I was just keeping the ball rolling there. Amazed at that secret counting .
Uncle Joe Stalin must be laughing.
Indymedia paris is very useful . Merci.
ps saw a review of “Unspeak” on political ‘language’. goodstuff.
Posted by frog on Jul 20, 2006 at 5:04 AM
You’re very welcome, Frog.
On the left hand side of any Indy Media site is are links to other Indy Media sites all over the world. So if I want the news from someplace in particular, I can go directly to their Indy Media site instead of having to depend on external news coverage. For example:
Paris: http://paris.indymedia.org/
England: http://www.indymedia.org.uk/
San Diego, California USA: http://www.sdimc.org/
Chiapas, Mexico: http://chiapas.indymedia.org/
Beirut, Lebanon: http://beirut.indymedia.org/
All Indy Media sites are run by volunteers on whatever servers they can afford, with open source software, no commercials, and the same guidelines. Many stories will have translations available and the software allows anyone to publish a translation of any story. I’m sure that indymedia paris will benefit greatly from your contributions.
One way of voting that it is difficult to interfere with is when we vote with our wallets. When we choose to get our news from In These Times online, Indy Media, or other alternative publishers rather than from the mainstream media, we force the globalizers to subsidize their own propaganda machines. Every dollar (or Euro) they have to spend on propaganda, is one less they can spend on bombs and bullets. Sure it’s a drop in the bucket, but sometimes a teaspoonful of truth can overcome a ton of lies.
Posted by mymarkx on Jul 20, 2006 at 5:52 AM
On a Dutch campaign against voting machines, see http://www.nieuwsuitamsterdam.nl/English/2006/06071201.htm
Posted by Dirkk on Jul 20, 2006 at 6:14 AM
Excellent! Thank you, Dirkk. It may be a stereotype, but I’ve always believed that the Dutch have an extra share of common sense. Best of luck to you!
Posted by mymarkx on Jul 20, 2006 at 6:43 AM
This is what im saying! Im hearing some people here are ACTUALLY STILL making efforts. DAMN RIGHT! All arms to Kennedy, but seriously he can only do so much with out an amazing uproar behind him. He needs an army and that army doesnt need to just read about him, they need to get out on the streets in the next upcoming election and make them selves heard with out violence. If an army stands up like that, you never know Kennedy might decide to lead it. Keep going every one dont stop!
P.S. im sorry im not American I didnt mean to put my self out that way. Yeah I know the flag thing, heheh. ^_^;; Just a young Canadian whos got a bit of input thats all! My apolagies.
A young Canadian, huh? That explains it.
We have to be our own leaders. If we let someone lead us, they get shot. If there’s anything we don’t need it is any more Kennedy assassinations.
Did you read my post above, Stopycryingstartfighting, about the demo where the officer asked who was in charge, and everyone shouted, “The people are in charge!”
There are many reasons for nonhierarchical organizing, not merely the fact that whenever fascists can identify a leader, they shoot. In order to have a participatory democracy, everyone has to learn how to participate. Instead of bosses and workers, everyone pitches in to do whatever has to be done. And you rotate responsibilities every few weeks to eliminate the opportunity for corruption and lower the burnout rate. So when it is the village idiot’s or the town bully’s turn to do something, they can’t have four or eight years in which to destroy everything everyone else has worked for centuries to build . And when it is the turn of the village midwife or schoolteacher to shoulder civil responsibilities, they can easily undo any damage the morons did. And peer pressure will usually keep the morons from doing it again next time.
The U.S. has always been blessed with excellent leaders, and most of them have been shot. The reason we are all becoming the leaders we want, is because if the fascists shoot all of us, who’ll buy their bombs and fight their wars for them? We’re an ecologically nonviable species and we’re currently due for one of our cyclical die-offs, so it is very likely that most of us won’t survive anyway. We’ve got nothing left to lose, and we’re not about to sacrifice any more Kennedys.
Posted by mymarkx on Jul 20, 2006 at 9:15 PM
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Reader Comments
i am surprised it took this long for someone to stand up & do someting about this
Litigation is a slow process.
My fear is that by the time this reaches the Supreme Court, the 2008 elections will be over and they’ll declare it moot.
We have to remember that the current Supreme Court is even worse than the one that stopped the Florida recount in 2000.
I’m happy to see this case filed
I live in San Diego and in November I took our Registrar of Voters to court, alleging that the machines were hackable and the chain of custody was not secure. I lost. Now that everything I alleged has been proven correct, I often wonder what that judge is thinking—if judges think. Maybe they just play golf and let their clerks do the thinking.
Well…it looks good on paper…we .will just have to what and see….
My question is…” How do you stop the next guy ? “........
The initial value is as a “shot across the bow.” Just making the injustice visible goes a long way toward stopping the election thieves.
Better would be for the Dem “leadership” to announce that they’ll be spending millions on hyper-accurate polling this time around.
The truth is that while the Blackwells and Harrises get most of the attention (mainly because they got caught) the bulk of the stealing happens in local areas controlled by the neofascists. These people are not part of some larger conspiracy. They just know what they can get away with and do it.
If it’s made clear that their “o-fishy-l” result will be challenged and investigated, they’ll simply chicken(hawk) out.
And another good preventative measure would be to make election fraud a capital crime (yes, really - we can commute the death sentence). Doing so would make it clear that an election is not a contest or competition—rather, it is a survey of what the consent of the governed is at a given time.
Mymarkx,
Well Done for attempting it , you Pathfinder.
Thedeanpeople
Crazy system when you can get 17yrs for an eggcupfull of cocaine, and zero or tiny for election fraud.
I’m against capital punishment, but it would sure be a headline-grabber . Maybe we could settle for 20yrs on a chaingang, with a referendum to choose which State has the very worst , most inhumane, most privatisedly profitable to fascistical fatcats, penal system .
Now there’s an ideea with legs…................
I was going to ask WHY this took so long to come up, too . But maybe because so much so wrong, difficult to decide what to do first .... maybe people just waiting for someone else “higher up” the political spectrum to act….. and then realising , at last, that they were just sitting on their hands, with thumbs firmly entrenched you know where, and minds in neutral .
No time for more, just marking the spot to come back.
Redhorse thinks capital punishment is not a good think…but 20 years mandatory sounds about right…..even if this laws suit is a winner…I doubt anyone will do jail time…most likely write a book…dedicate it to Dick and Rummy and all of the gang….....
Hi HORSE,
Small problem there, not enough room on one page to get all the scum on.
Congress has already thrown $300 mio at the ‘problem’, and missed.
Par for the course, what a bunch of wankers. More pork.
Any computerologist out there hypothesise why i’m flagged from germany instead of frogland?
wanadoo.fr is frog !
Frog,
Have you checked the to make sure there has been no invasion? Old habits are hard to break.
Perhaps they are using the new tech and have hacked into all the French deed records. Blitzkreig evolving into Blogkreig?
(A weak attempt to tie into the thread here.)
WTH
I’d have you know we cheese-eaters only surrender on thursday afternoons, so we can have the long weekend.
I think its the chinese, as well as other laundry-money behind the toll-road and -bridge sell-off of the USA . ,
Actually a reverse- cunning plot,. Take their money, pocket 30% minimum for our sweet little selves, spend the rest like water while tax-cutting, for ourselves, and when it all goes belly-up exit to our fortified bunkers in sunny australia.
Well, I was just keeping it warm for Sally and you real amurricans.
Good luck to rfk jr.
BLOGKRIEG meinHerr ,—- Guido Fawkes, who tried to blow parliament on 5 nov 1605 , is back with new subversive tacktickery .
He borrowed this from Centcom or SouthCom, or that guy who makes policy on the back of a cig packet. Bliar is Ace of Spades
Tactics for getting out the home-crafted lightpole-friendly pro-quality “Sleaze News” —naming and shaming,
who will be phantom fly-posting first, WTH or frog ?
Neither. SALLY b wins.
What the? TOO COMPLEX! TOO COMPLEX! Corrupt republicans rely on democrats and other opponents to come up with complex solutions. Why? Simple: most people in general do not understand complex solutions thus they think they are wrong. Radical republicans and conservatives have a way of simplifying every thing in their favour. You want to stop them? Stop bitching, stop being confused, stop putting your heads between your knees start fighting every thing radical republicans preach.
Kennedy Jr. is on the right track but I dont see him asking us for help, this is a good thing. Let him deal with diebold let him stall them up with legal complexities, never the less no matter what last name he carries you wont stop diebold from hitting again like the last election.
So what do you do? How do you change stuff? It’s called focusing RAGE. Have you ever stood in a line for 13 hours? Most people have not done that, but for some strange reason it was very common among many democratic voters in the last election. HMMMMMM…what do the republicans feed off? Angry energy. ANGER AND RAGE.
Here is my simple way of putting it: no one likes to stand in line for 13 hours to use one or two machines and then not get their vote counted. No one likes to go through with that, and then have all the mainstream media ignore it. Take that rage, take that anger and turn it against the republicans. PROTEST! BOYCOUGHT! SCREAM! PREACH! SHUT DOWN EVERY THING! IGNORE WHAT FOX SAYS, IGNORE WHAT CNN SAYS, IGNORE WHAT WINNING REPUBLICANS SAY. STOP BEING AFRAID OF EMOTIONIAL BULLYING! START FIGHTING DONT SHUT UP SPREAD THE WORD WHEN THE NEXT ELECTION COMES AND THERE IS A FRAUD THERE SHOULD BE IGNITION OF RAGE!
317,000 people lost their votes? That
Stopcrying
Hang in here, mate., this thread will develop. . I’m not a Yank, just a brit longtime in france.
I feel your rage, without the 13 hours. Difficult to imagine for you, but I do.
I’m outside. I do my things here in frogland to fight the same motherfuckers.
Various tactics available.
HOW MANY PEOPLE can you mobilise ?
With all the good will in the world I’m no use to you. No sweat I’d be with you demonstrating, but I’m not there.
You can get a voting-machine for yourself and friends, but THEN no guarantee its not” fixed”.
TOO COMPLEX for simple people that the votes can be fixed afterwards ?
BULLSHIT. Simple people understand a lot, very fast.
Get your arse right behind RFK jr, and use your brain to do more than the utmost wherever you are. Get those neighbours together, light a FIRE.
40 or 50 of us packed the San Diego Board of Supervisors meeting this morning. Our signs said, “Dump Diebold!”
The Chair of the San Diego Democratic Party, the head of San Diego Metro Progressive Democrats of America, a Democratic Congressional candidate, a prominent journalist, the voter who had filed for a recount, and several others spoke to the Board and at the press conference we held afterwards. In the crowd were at least four Green Party members and at least two Republicans.
One person asked me why we weren’t in the streets in 2000 and 2004. I explained that some of us were in the streets, but the rest of us were looking to our leaders for guidance and it wasn’t forthcoming. It has taken us a while, but we have become the leaders we want. Of this morning’s group, perhaps even over fifty people, I didn’t see a single follower—leaders all!
We the people are finally realizing who we are. (Psssst! All you elected and appointed office holders, quit slacking off and get back to work—the boss is here!)
Another press conference is being planned for Friday at the Registrar of Voters office, and everyone is planning to keep coming to Board of Supervisors meetings.
Diane “Gail” Jacobsen, who had filed for a recount and been told by the Registrar to put up a $6,000 deposit before he’d reveal which of the documents he is required by law to supply, he might hand over, said, “I won’t buy a car sight unseen! First tell me what documents you intend to give me, then I’ll give you the deposit.”
Right on! We pay these folks’ salaries and they don’t want to even listen to us, no less represent us or act as civil servants. Well, we’re not buying any more unverifiable elections or unresponsive officials.
The eyes of the world are on San Diego. As Judy Hess, one of the organizers said, “We’re fighting this battle here, so that we don’t have to fight it there—435 Congressional Districts in November.”
Another person who was there this morning is an attorney who is one of the plaintiffs in another lawsuit in California. When RFK Jr’s lawsuit was mentioned, a cheer went up.
The despair is dissipating. Today is a weekday, a workday, and yet we got a crowd. The true sign of a participatory democracy is citizen participation. It is starting to happen here and it is awesome!
mymarkx….excellent…but not wanting to spit in the wind…I saw nothing in the news of your protest….live in DC…stuff like that does get coverage here…but not today…I will keep an eye open for the story…curious if it will be covered….This Zionist attack on Lebanon…the news media propaganda is so thickly pro-Isreal…nothing else matters…..
Maybe the washington post will have a story tomorrow….
mymarkx
Unfortunately , Moral support only from me.
Would love to send you $100 if you need it, but the banks would steal a goodly , LARGE, proportion on a Eurocheque.
RISE UP. The only way.
We frogs know it too. Enough people in the streets and the Mothas backtrack, for a WHILE .
Press coverage, Redhorse? I’m not expecting miracles here. The press was there, but what gets printed and aired is another story.
About 15 years ago, when the last semi-liberal talk show host went off the air in San Diego, I realized I was living behind a media iron curtain and I did what any freedom-loving person does in that situation: I bought a shortwave radio.
Since then I’ve gotten a computer and have myself become involved with Indy Media.
So while it would be darned nice if there’s some coverage from the propaganda press, I’ll continue to rely on email and blogs for my news, thank you. I get dispatches direct from Beirut so I couldn’t care less what the mainstream media is saying. If it’s news you want, check your local Indy Media site, which has links to Indy Media sites all over the world. Important articles posted locally by locals will be picked up and posted at larger Indy Media sites. Most articles will have links to list-serves you can subscribe to that will keep you current on any issue.
It may seem like spitting into the wind, but it is more like spitting into the ocean. However a drop of truth can be like oil on the water, spreading quickly, covering large areas, and calming stormy seas. It works for me.
Frog, I thank you for the moral support. We’re not asking for money. We’re asking for our tax money back because it was spent on hackable voting machines that don’t meet state or local standards for certification. This is consumer fraud writ large and we’ve got some very angry consumers here.
MYMARKX
Press coverage.
THEY are trying to privatise our public hospital, so we “assembled”, as we do in France, and there was wonderful footage of the Regional hospital Director in complete disarray listening to a speech from a local councillor.
i was beside the TV cameraman who filmed it all, and did not even take out my cheapo job to get a still of that embarrassed face. Fool.
Zero on the TV news.
Lessons learned. We’ve been on the streets quite often for the past 18 months, and I always had the cheapo still camera.
That way any cop who got “excessive” could have been recorded.
Next time is 29july, and i will have a digital one, so can record independently of the MSM, and any shots of cop repression can be flashed around Normandy, france, the world..
Surveillance and technology work both ways.
PEOPLE SHOULD NOT BE AFRAID OF THE GOVERNMENT
THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD BE AFRAID OF THE PEOPLE.
The fight is the same all over the world, so I’m learning from what you are experiencing, and doing, to be prepared here.
They have already conducted pilots on electronic voting machines in other parts of France, and I DID NOT KNOW ! until I searched .
I am mailing the one State Rep , and the two Regional Reps I know personally, to warn them to keep their eyes and ears open.
I very much appreciated your
<blockquote>Of this morning
I’m 66 years old. A couple of months ago I went to only the second street demonstration in my entire life, a small protest in front of the Mexican consulate in support of the Zapatistas and the people of Atenco. I went both as a participant and also to help cover the event for Indy Media.
We chanted, read off the names of those imprisoned, and everything was fine. Then a police officer came over to try to clear a path on the sidewalk. He asked politely, “Who’s in charge here?”
And everyone yelled back in unison, “The people are in charge!”
It was a revelation for me. We the people, as they say in what Bush calls a piece of paper and we used to call our Constitution, actually in charge!
That’s how it was supposed to be. It may be a lost cause, but it always has been and still is the only thing worth fighting for. And I’m not going to stop fighting until either I can’t fight any more or the people are back in charge.
When you get your digital pictures, upload them to your computer, then go to your local Indy Media site, click “Publish,” type in what it is about, then scroll down to “Add media” and click “browse” and you’ll be able to upload your picture along with the story. It takes a few minutes, but soon it will appear on the “Newswire” on the right hand side, and if the editorial volunteers like it, they’ll make it into a feature in the center. The hospital assemblage would have made a great story.
BE THE MEDIA!
At last, a conscience, and a Kennedy? Again?
Heh heh….. As an atheist all I can say is that I’m very glad that the Kennedy clan are Catholics. ;-)
Mymarkx
I’m 59, and demonstrated in the early 1970’s, the first UK Miners’ Strike under Thatcher, and later got my jaw scientifically thumped by a cop in Trafalgar Square against Apartheid .
Last year , I got out there again after 32years. It felt very strange for a few minutes , as though I was making a complete fool of myself, but that wore off. Fast.
<blockquote>It may be a lost cause, but it always has been and still is the only thing worth fighting for. And I
POSTAL VOTING
Bliar encouraged this, ‘supposedly’ to increase turnout. Just goes to show that even with paper ballots, eternal vigilance needed.
Frog, that’s only one of the problems with mail-in voting.
When you go to the polls to vote, there is a public list of voters and your name is crossed off or checked off. It is easy to tell how many people voted at each precinct.
With mail-in ballots, on the other hand, it is impossible to know how many were actually received. When Greg Palast’s team found thousands more absentee votes than registered absentee voters in one county, he noted that if ballots had been subtracted rather than added, nobody would have known about it.
Any process that is not transparent and open to public observation in an election must be suspect. Receiving, storing, and counting (or not counting, as the case may be) mailed-in ballots, is entirely in the hands of election officials and not open to public view.
In San Diego’s November ‘05 election, the votes counted publicly went for Donna Frye and against the Schwarzenegger initiatives. The early and absentee ballots, on the other hand, which were supposedly the bulk of the vote and which were counted secretly with no public observation permitted, went for Jerry Sanders (our new Mayor) and in favor of the initiatives. At least that’s what we’re supposed to believe. I’m not the only one who doesn’t happen to believe it.
Sure Mymarkx,
I was just keeping the ball rolling there. Amazed at that secret counting .
Uncle Joe Stalin must be laughing.
Indymedia paris is very useful . Merci.
ps saw a review of “Unspeak” on political ‘language’. goodstuff.
You’re very welcome, Frog.
On the left hand side of any Indy Media site is are links to other Indy Media sites all over the world. So if I want the news from someplace in particular, I can go directly to their Indy Media site instead of having to depend on external news coverage. For example:
Paris: http://paris.indymedia.org/
England: http://www.indymedia.org.uk/
San Diego, California USA: http://www.sdimc.org/
Chiapas, Mexico: http://chiapas.indymedia.org/
Beirut, Lebanon: http://beirut.indymedia.org/
All Indy Media sites are run by volunteers on whatever servers they can afford, with open source software, no commercials, and the same guidelines. Many stories will have translations available and the software allows anyone to publish a translation of any story. I’m sure that indymedia paris will benefit greatly from your contributions.
One way of voting that it is difficult to interfere with is when we vote with our wallets. When we choose to get our news from In These Times online, Indy Media, or other alternative publishers rather than from the mainstream media, we force the globalizers to subsidize their own propaganda machines. Every dollar (or Euro) they have to spend on propaganda, is one less they can spend on bombs and bullets. Sure it’s a drop in the bucket, but sometimes a teaspoonful of truth can overcome a ton of lies.
On a Dutch campaign against voting machines, see http://www.nieuwsuitamsterdam.nl/English/2006/06071201.htm
Excellent! Thank you, Dirkk. It may be a stereotype, but I’ve always believed that the Dutch have an extra share of common sense. Best of luck to you!
This is what im saying! Im hearing some people here are ACTUALLY STILL making efforts. DAMN RIGHT! All arms to Kennedy, but seriously he can only do so much with out an amazing uproar behind him. He needs an army and that army doesnt need to just read about him, they need to get out on the streets in the next upcoming election and make them selves heard with out violence. If an army stands up like that, you never know Kennedy might decide to lead it. Keep going every one dont stop!
P.S. im sorry im not American I didnt mean to put my self out that way. Yeah I know the flag thing, heheh. ^_^;; Just a young Canadian whos got a bit of input thats all! My apolagies.
A young Canadian, huh? That explains it.
We have to be our own leaders. If we let someone lead us, they get shot. If there’s anything we don’t need it is any more Kennedy assassinations.
Did you read my post above, Stopycryingstartfighting, about the demo where the officer asked who was in charge, and everyone shouted, “The people are in charge!”
There are many reasons for nonhierarchical organizing, not merely the fact that whenever fascists can identify a leader, they shoot. In order to have a participatory democracy, everyone has to learn how to participate. Instead of bosses and workers, everyone pitches in to do whatever has to be done. And you rotate responsibilities every few weeks to eliminate the opportunity for corruption and lower the burnout rate. So when it is the village idiot’s or the town bully’s turn to do something, they can’t have four or eight years in which to destroy everything everyone else has worked for centuries to build . And when it is the turn of the village midwife or schoolteacher to shoulder civil responsibilities, they can easily undo any damage the morons did. And peer pressure will usually keep the morons from doing it again next time.
The U.S. has always been blessed with excellent leaders, and most of them have been shot. The reason we are all becoming the leaders we want, is because if the fascists shoot all of us, who’ll buy their bombs and fight their wars for them? We’re an ecologically nonviable species and we’re currently due for one of our cyclical die-offs, so it is very likely that most of us won’t survive anyway. We’ve got nothing left to lose, and we’re not about to sacrifice any more Kennedys.
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