I suspect that there are few people in the wider world (non USA/Israeli) who think the Israeli behavior justified, especially so with people who were paying attention to the sequence of events.

I assume like many commentators that the motivation is to destroy Hamas and Hezbollah as a minimum goal and perhaps to destroy Syria and Iran as additional goals.  As of now Israelimerikkka seems to want to attack Syria and Iran but all in good time.  However, I think that before the end of the year a major world wide war will begin.

Only yesterday there were reports that angry muslim youth from Iran and Indonesia are making there way to Lebanon to fight the Israelis/Americans.  However, I doubt they will be welcomed by Hezbollah at this point in time. Hizbullah seems very well disciplined and organized.

I wrote the following comment some days ago:

One doesn’t often associate the word stupid with Jews.  C Wright Mills associated the word crackpot with American Foreign policy because of its counterproductive nature.  It always created more enemies.  American Foreign Policy has been mostly based on a militarist view of the world, that is, if there was a choice of policy Americans always carried the big stick and took the moral low road.
I was in Israel during the Yom Kipper War.  On Israeli radio they were playing Pete Seeger and Joan Baez and many other anti-war singers and on Arab radio stations they were playing Military Marches.  The Israelis at the time tried to follow a moral high road, or at least to appear so in public.

Who won?

RIGHT WING SCUM IDEAS OF MILITARY DOMINATION NOW DOMINATE IN THE USA AND ISRAEL.  In the long run military policies and ideologies only have negative effects.  The Jews with there walls and the harming of Palestinian lives will only bring calamity on themselves.  Building up reasons for hatred is absolutely stupid. Taking the moral low road is always stupid.  Jews are acting in a very very stupid manner.

Fascist ideas have become more and more popular in the USA and Israel.  The words of the peacemakers have been drowned out. Extreme right wing ideologies and racist type thinking has gained a new prominence. A world war is brewing, usually smart people say a plague on both your houses, but today I think we are facing another anti-fascist war. Israelimerikkka has to be defeated.

To be? Or not to be? — That, once again is the question. 

It depends on whether we believe Israel has a legitimate right to exist.  Israel realizes that for them to lose the “war” is to cease to exist. This is a nation born, reared and sustained in the realities of a life and death struggle. They know full well there are those who will not rest until either Israel is only a memory or their enemies are reduced to total impotence. The media is quick to develop graphics with “war” in the title. this is just another battle in Israel’s eyes in a continuing war.

Israel’s predicament in Lebanon is a pantagraph view of ours in Iraq. Armies are primarily trained and equipped to fight other armies. Hezbollah, Hamas, al Qaeda and all the other terrorist oriented global groups have advantages of broad based, fanatical support or at least religious ambivalence a leading to the tolerance of their methods.

Their methods deny or ignore responsibility for civilian deaths. Stategically, they benefit by them. They also benefit from the short time horizons of international western media and politicians.

The U.S. Indian Wars of the 1870s were similar in that the Native Americans were willing to put aside ancient tribal disputes and band together against a perceived mutual threat to their religious and ethnic societies. Tactics employed by both sides were similar to what we see now — hit and run opposed by technology and a military designed to fight massed static opposition. Torture and atrocities were commonplace. Governmental and civilian support was mixed (among those not directly involved).

The outcome was decided by the overwhelming force of numbers, the elimination of their food and other supplies, and finally the realization by the tribes that they were about to be eradicated.

Unless or until there are sufficient forces to suppress terrorism and make neighborhoods safe, this conflict will continue. Calling for “stabilization” (a return to the satus quo) and “peace keepers” in these battles will only bring a pause in the wider war.  A war the West will win only if it perceives the true issue is survival.

To Israel this is obvious — to us it is still being debated and tallied in body counts.

To be? Or not to be? — That, once again is the question. 

It depends on whether we believe Israel has a legitimate right to exist.  Israel realizes that for them to lose the “war” is to cease to exist. This is a nation born, reared and sustained in the realities of a life and death struggle. They know full well there are those who will not rest until either Israel is only a memory or their enemies are reduced to total impotence. The media is quick to develop graphics with “war” in the title. this is just another battle in Israel’s eyes in a continuing war.

Israel’s predicament in Lebanon is a pantagraph view of ours in Iraq. Armies are primarily trained and equipped to fight other armies. Hezbollah, Hamas, al Qaeda and all the other terrorist oriented global groups have advantages of broad based, fanatical support or at least religious ambivalence leading to the tolerance of their methods.

Their methods deny or ignore responsibility for civilian deaths. Strategically, they benefit by them. They also benefit from the short time horizons of international western media and politicians.

The U.S. Indian Wars of the 1870s were similar in that the Native Americans were willing to put aside ancient tribal disputes and band together against a perceived mutual threat to their religious and ethnic societies. Tactics employed by both sides were similar to what we see now — hit and run opposed by technology and a military designed to fight massed static opposition. Torture and atrocities were commonplace. Governmental and civilian support was mixed (among those not directly involved).

The outcome was decided by the overwhelming force of numbers, the elimination of their food and other supplies, and finally the realization by the tribes that they were about to be eradicated.

Unless or until there are sufficient forces to suppress terrorism and make neighborhoods safe, this conflict will continue. Calling for “stabilization” (a return to the status quo) and “peace keepers” in these battles will only bring a pause in the wider war.  A war the West will win only if it perceives the true issue is survival.

To Israel this is obvious — to us it is still being debated and tallied in body counts.

>>>It depends on whether we believe Israel has a legitimate right to exist. 

Did the “UN” (and England) have the right to give away someone else’s land?

And even if they didn’t what should be done now that the land was given away?

What does “exist” mean?

Does exist mean the Nation state of Israel

or the people of Israel living in a secular multinational state for example.?

>>>Israel (?) realizes that for them to lose the “war” is to cease to exist

No it doesn’t and it has no reason to believe that unless you accept the Zionist argument that somehow the state must always be Jewish and there must be a Jewish Nation State.  The “nation” of Jews will exist even if Israel ceases to exist.. At least for a long time as a separate culture just as they have existed for thousands of years until or unless they get assimilated away along with everyone else.

. This is a nation born, reared and sustained in the realities of a life and death struggle.

Yes the Jews see themselves as Spartans slaying their antisemitic enemies.

Israel’s predicament in Lebanon is a pantagraph view of ours in Iraq.

No it isn’t.  The liberation struggle is quite different. (The Sociological dynamic is different.)

>>>>> ...Hezbollah, Hamas, al Qaeda and all the other terrorist oriented global groups have advantages of broad based, fanatical support or at least religious ambivalence a leading to the tolerance of their methods<<<<<<<.

Utter bullshit.  None of these groups are terrorist.  No one is a terrorist except the state terrorists or more accurately everyone is a terrorist depending on the side you are standing on.  And idiot, Hezbollah and al Queda do not have much in common. The same is true of Hamas

Their methods deny or ignore responsibility for civilian deaths.

Of course not, where did you get that idea from?  Israeli propaganda.  This is a ludicrus idea!

<<<<<<Stategically, they benefit by them. They also benefit from the short time horizons of international western media and politicians. >>>>>>

So what?

<<<<<<The U.S. Indian Wars of the 1870s were similar in that the Native Americans were willing to put aside ancient tribal disputes and band together against a perceived mutual threat to their religious and ethnic societies. Tactics employed by both sides were similar to what we see now — hit and run opposed by technology and a military designed to fight massed static opposition. Torture and atrocities were commonplace. Governmental and civilian support was mixed (among those not directly involved)>>>>>>>>>.

So, I always side with the underdog, why is that wrong?

The outcome was decided by the overwhelming force of numbers, the elimination of their food and other supplies, and finally the realization by the tribes that they were about to be eradicated.

True but the Arabs are still holding out.

>>>>Unless or until there are sufficient forces to suppress terrorism and make neighborhoods safe, this conflict will continue. Calling for “stabilization” (a return to the satus quo) and “peace keepers” in these battles will only bring a pause in the wider war.  A war the West will win only if it perceives the true issue is survival.

To Israel this is obvious — to us it is still being debated <<<<<<<<

Utter bullshit and a Nazi point of view. You believe in the inherent superiority of the retrograde west but the west is dieing because of its abandonment of a moral order.  Your/the capitalism, nationalism and militarism will be defeated.

Or we will all be defeated when we blow ourselves up

Spin-Oz-a

A highly intellectual and inspiring response.

Up yours.

If i were born on one side of the wall - i might have one point of view.
If i were born on the other side of the wall - i might have quite another point of view.

One thing is for sure - events are forcing all of us to take sides in the ultimate of horrors that mankind can manifest upon itself. “You’re either with us or against us.” We are all on the slippery slide into the worst and/or best of human nature and the ultimate of challenges to our very understanding of who and what we are.

I do know that in pointing out another’s faults, i may fail to see my own. So, whichever side of this folly you find yourself on, i wish you peace and goodwill.

Hourglass,

Thanks.

Of course, you are right.
I find that on this site there is a tendency to deteriorate in to name calling, etc. more often than most others.
Probably at least some of it due to whether you know individuals who are involved in the fighting over there. Or if you know someone closely involved in 9/11 at either WTC or the Pentagon. It may be a split between those who mark this as a long time problem crossing generations and involving misjudgements which have come back to haunt the West and those who see each confrontation as independent events.

The partitioning of the Middle East in 1922, the establishing of a state of Israel in 1948 are situations which we now must deal with regardless of the wisdom or lack of.

whattheheck,

Why is it that support of Israel’s right to exist implies support of all of their actions?  I support Israel, and I even believe in their right to act militarily in support of their security, but creating a humanitarian crisis in Lebanon doesn’t help their security.  Support for Hezbollah has only increased.

I am so sick of anyone who opposes Israeli aggression being accused of being an anti-Semite, or in the very least of not supporting Israel’s right to exist.

Josesanders,

For the sake of argument, let’s say you are an Israeli who believes the following:

1. Hezbollah, which claims to be a political party (with its own armed force), is really a tool of Iran.

2. Iran’s goal is the total destruction of the state of Israel and they are using Hezbollah through Syria to work to that end.

3. The U.N. “Peacekeepers” who have been there for 28 years are impotent and so are there resolutions.

With these beliefs firmly in mind do you really care if Hezbollah’s support is increased?
Wouldn’t you seek to destroy Hezbollah by whatever means available and as soon as possible?

Would you turn your fate over to the U.N. or ssome other international group?

Would you care about world opinion if you thought the alternative to fighting was death for you and your family?

OK, now the same might be said of the Lebanese — simply switch a few names around.

What are the chances that some additional peacekeeping force could disarm the Hezbollah guerrillas? How would they even identify them? How long before this whole thing erupts again?

It looks to me it will require total capitulation by one side or the other to put an end to this.

I believe this is the reality.

For some time now i have been visiting this site daily and am disgusted, but not surprised, that there is virtually NOTHING about Israel’s destruction of Lebanon. This is inexcusable. This will be my last read. Fuck you.

OPEL
should you return, a debate between the shills/warmongers and others , notably rabbit, on the 911Faith thread.

Strange indeedy that there is no article here…...........

War crimes case being prepared in Scotland.

They recently reversed an amnesty law in Argentina to put one criminal away .

So BushCo should not feel safe, whatever laws they pass, unless of course they have no intention of EVER relinquishing power ...

Time for another National Emergency,  anyone , ?

This aggression started nearly the same way that World War I started. WWI started with the assassination of one person (Keiser Wilhelm), but I believe that war has a different purpose, as does this aggression now.

We are looking at ideology as our motivation for action, when ideology is merely a mechanism that triggers the masses to move in one direction or another.

If we look below the fog of beliefs we can see the motives of those who control the means and resources for producing the weapons and machines needed for war.

Their warehouses are almost full and their armies are swelling beyond their control so a culling of troops is needed and the military industrial complex needs to start making money again.

In a modern-day Thermopylae, Hezbollah’s 3,000 fighters have astoundingly held off Israel’s mighty military machine, the world’s fourth strongest, for nearly four weeks. 

In the meantime, Israeli war crimes against Lebanese civilians and its infrastructure (Christian and Muslim) have united them as never before.  The latest polling shows 87% of Lebanese population now backs Hezbollah. The war has backfired for Israel.  US inaction/complicity in these war crimes will not soon be forgotten.

In the longer term, the message will not be lost on anyone: that having a pro-American Arab government counts for nothing, and that Arab civilians count for less than nothing when weighed against Israeli interests.

The next “doe-eyed” blond on Faux News that asks why they hate us should be slapped.

“For some time now i have been visiting this site daily and am disgusted, but not surprised, that there is virtually NOTHING about Israel’s destruction of Lebanon. This is inexcusable. This will be my last read. Fuck you.

Posted by opeluboy on Aug 4, 2006 at 3:40 PM”

Founding Publisher
James Weinstein

LOL… gee I wonder why? “Liberal Zionists” are almost as schitzoid as “Big-government conservatives”!

Pretty sad, really.

spfldnet,

WWl began with the assassination of the Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria in Serbia.

A network of mutual defense pacts sucked nearly all of Europe into the mess. The US held off until 1918 when President Wilson finally entered us in “The War to End All Wars.”

——————————— ;———
“If we look below the fog of beliefs we can see the motives of those who control the means and resources for producing the weapons and machines needed for war.
Their warehouses are almost full and their armies are swelling beyond their control so a culling of troops is needed and the military industrial complex needs to start making money again.”

An over simplified theory, I’m sure. War these days will not come anywhere near to the massive production of WWl &WWll;.  Oil, however, is much more universally desired.

Give it another shot. (to coin a phrase)

This is a very important article and should be widely spread over the net, Especially the USA

http://www.counterpunch.org/bricmont08122006.html

Spinoza
Excellent article.
Also norman finkelstein on dershowitz—- worth spreading ....