Please stop this self-serving anti-white racist identity politics.
Who do you think you’re kidding ? Every GOP victory since 1966
can be traced to the whole issue of black crime and sociopathology.
You don’t think the voters are falling for the pseudo-Ayn Rand economics of the Right, do you ? Excuse me but the so-called
people of color self-professed spokespersons are the ones who
are obsessed by race.
Posted by blondemike on Dec 14, 2006 at 9:16 AM
“In this narrative, identity politics is to blame for the inability of progressives to stick together, thereby making room for the rise of conservatism. Michaels says as much, barely acknowledging any other factors, including the right wing
Posted by Siskiyouz on Dec 14, 2006 at 12:20 PM
Maybe Rinku is Redhorse in drag (just kidding but couldn’t resist).
Posted by blondemike on Dec 14, 2006 at 6:09 PM
It would be OK , with the Horse…Ms.Sen knows of where and what she speaks….My feeling is….that.yu never will get it BM…for the first time in your little pity life , yu see yourself as being ” left out “...in a BIG WAY…..Yu just can’t handle it…BM , your emotions have got yu all in a knot…..
Posted by Redhorse on Dec 14, 2006 at 8:03 PM
Siskiyouz….the only reason the neo-cons play that game , is because they know it works…If you don’t respond appropiately…thats the same as saying…that these racial stigmatism are correct,,,,This is why yu need to confront the reality…not act like the problem doesn’t exit….If Bill Clinton made one statement that was right on point , but then , did nothing about it for the whole 8 years in office…It was that the issue of race was the number one problem that Amerika needed to deal with…and that by tackling that reality..that Amerika would be able to see it’s way clear of many other pressing difficulties…Now slick Willie don’t hand out to many freebies, so one would be wise to take heed…...true.
Posted by Redhorse on Dec 14, 2006 at 8:19 PM
this is so black and white - you can have a movement for equality while respecting and trying to empower minorities/identities.
Look at health care in Canada - there is still racism but the fact is that all people have health care. This gives more resources to work with for those minorities, it helps them fight for there rights.
Basically economic equality should be the main goal, but we should also work to support other movements as well. As a poor, black, gay man what he wants most, he might tell you health care.
Posted by ryaninfo on Dec 15, 2006 at 3:54 AM
One of the reasons that the Left is so concerned with indentity politics is because capitalism is racially structured both in terms of income stratification and occupationally. Identity groups have formed the basis of economic structuring in many places throughout history. The integration of identity groups into various societies has often been the fulfillment of some economic roll or another. Usually it is cheap labor but sometimes it’s other things. This is why identity politics survives. Addressing identity is an important part of addressing social stigma and inequality.
Posted by cabdriverinchicago on Dec 15, 2006 at 9:45 AM
Slick Willie wanted to solve the race problem by adding FIFTY new categories of capital crimes which he did to the 1994 Crime Bill.
Oh, I forgot, he threw in Midnight Basketball…...................
Redhorse, if idiots like you stopped your mindless black racism 99%
of the “problem” would go away.
Socialism has no better record on race issues. Cuba was always an
integrated society, under Batista as well as Castro. When Cleaver
went down preaching that black power rap Fidel put his sorry rapist
ass in the sugar cane fields.
Viva Fidel !
Posted by blondemike on Dec 15, 2006 at 9:51 AM
I am not saying to put all our eggs in the IP basket. I just realize a lot of social problems still break down statistically by race in this and many other societies.
Posted by cabdriverinchicago on Dec 15, 2006 at 12:00 PM
Ok, Chicago, a reasonable point.
Posted by blondemike on Dec 15, 2006 at 12:46 PM
Sure there is a racial problem and it cuts both ways.
I doubt there are any
Posted by whattheheck on Dec 15, 2006 at 12:49 PM
WTH…..Well said…..that last paragraph hit the nail on the head….Been taking those long walks…playing with the grandkids…....eah..
Posted by Redhorse on Dec 15, 2006 at 4:47 PM
BM…I got yu coming and going , yu don’t know what to do now , do you….Yu sound like you’re foaming at the mouth…calm down…listen to what WTH , has to say….
99% of the problem…damn , don’t yu think that is a bit of an overstatement…
BM…calm….silence….breath…..slow down guy….....
Posted by Redhorse on Dec 15, 2006 at 5:01 PM
This whole discussion is getting ridiculous as they often do.
Posted by cabdriverinchicago on Dec 15, 2006 at 5:19 PM
Redhorse, I do not want to hear any more macaca coming from your mouth. Ok, 97% of the problem. Happy, now ?
Chicago, the only ridiculous notes are coming from Redhorse, he’s the
dude who posts as Scorp on the other posts.
WTH, pretty mush mental mush.
Nothing beautiful about war, it is legalized mass murder.
Damn boy I’m gonna cancel your subscription to the Weekly Standard, WTH, you come up with the damndest nonsense but I think your a nice guy at heart. Unlike Redhorse, he’d mug you in an alley in a flash, well,
he’d try, then I whip it out and he’s history. I’m talking of the 357 here though the other one is almost as big.
When know LOTS of people like Redhorse you recognize the absolute
truth of generalities and stereotypes.
Posted by blondemike on Dec 15, 2006 at 5:51 PM
getting ridiculous
No shit, eh !?
Some people might reconsider some of the fertilizer they are spreading, try thinking before they put their foot in their mouth (after all ... it’s covered in shit) and make use of the edit function.
WTH….one of the most touching moments in a situation such as yu discribed , is when former combatants meet after a conflict and become friends…neither can remember or explain why or what the war was about or why they wished to kill another human ; other than the fact that their respective Gov’ts told them too…fear of death…or a need to lookout for comrades….nobody wanted to be there….Even the gunho types…give into, surrender to the moment…They see that the so-called enemy , is just like them….has the same needs , hopes and fears…There is an old reggea tune that goes…”.The man in the military , don’t want to fight no war…..but the bankers want a war , the politicians want a war, but sargent-major Williams don’t want to fight no war…............”
Posted by Redhorse on Dec 16, 2006 at 4:03 AM
Redhorse, Blondmike,
Posted by whattheheck on Dec 16, 2006 at 8:38 AM
I’m sorry, but if the writer had read anything else by Walter Benn Michaels, she wouldn’t call him a progressive. I suggest, Ms. Sen, that you take a look at his previous book, Our America.
Posted by DaveinNorthridge on Dec 16, 2006 at 11:07 AM
WTH, my wife and I have been victims of serious crimes by dastardly
black criminals in Oakland as I related at length to the racist Redhorse.
I’m “unhappy” because I disagree with Bush’s mass murder in Iraq ?????????????
Stop the psychobabble and move on.
Posted by blondemike on Dec 16, 2006 at 1:50 PM
Blondemike,
Sorry about your experience. We have also been victims of crime. Burglary at home and at my office neighborhood
Posted by whattheheck on Dec 17, 2006 at 8:54 AM
Lancet, the esteemed UK medical journal, has documented at least 700,000 civilian deaths caused by the US invasion of Iraq in 2003.
Madeline Albright ADMITTED half a million Iraqi deaths caused by US
sanctions in spring, 1996 interview with Lesley Stahl of CBS News
for 60 minutes. There is ample UN and NGO documentation for the
figures that I gave. Just refute them or STFU little holocaust denier
WTH. Even conservatives like Buchanan now accept these figures.
The USA HAS LONG SINCE BEEN PROVEN GUILTY IN IRAQ AND
MANY OTHER PLACES SINCE WW2. GLAD TO SUPPLY REFS FOR
YOU.
You’re a rightwing weasel.
Posted by blondemike on Dec 17, 2006 at 3:04 PM
BM,
Got the runs again, I see.
If you are wiling to accept anything from MADelaine Halfbright as proof no wonder you are so confused. Please accept my condolences and best wishes for a speedy recovery.
As for your other sources of
Posted by whattheheck on Dec 18, 2006 at 7:54 AM
WTH, Albright was RELUCTANTLY confirming a report by the UN and
other NGOs that Lesley Stahl brought up in an interview. This is what
lawyers call admission against interest.
Most deaths are caused by US firepower, I was kind enough to give
you responsible sources.
Your response is ad hominem attacks and an utter failure to either
present a coherent response or tell me why the widely disparate
references that I gave are not reliable.
This is why debating with a low IQ, rightwing pinhead like yourself
is a waste of time. There were no suicide bombers or Muslim extremists running around in Iraq until our invasion. Hussein was
not religious and kept a tight lid on them. Bush Asshole removed
the lid.
Posted by blondemike on Dec 18, 2006 at 9:48 AM
Blondmike,
Yes, of course, Saddam did a wonderful job. Riiigghht
———
Posted by whattheheck on Dec 18, 2006 at 12:02 PM
Information is a poor substitute for thought ????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Again, you can’t respond to any refs so you’re reduced to ad hominems.
No, you’re supposed to have some reasoned semblance of a counter-argument.
The comment on Hussein is a nonsequitur since I didn’t say he was
doing a wonderful job. Bush has made a wonderful mess however and
now Al Queda is active in Iraq.
Be gone.
Posted by blondemike on Dec 18, 2006 at 12:42 PM
Wow…..I generally agree with BM….but have more respect for WTH….whats a afrikan-centered so-called racist to do…...............WTH the killing was intiated by the US..additionally one would also assume that Israeli intelligence is in on the genocide…..A civil war is just what the Bushy Boys want..now the US has no choice but to stay the freakin’ course…..MONEY…MONEY…MONEY….Who shot Abdul or who is shooting Abdul…is of little import…...................true.
Posted by Redhorse on Dec 18, 2006 at 4:43 PM
Redhorse, glad we agree here. WTH has been sounding more like Scorp lately, of course, not as bad, no one is but he has been making
the stupidest rightwing pro-war noises I’ve heard in a while.
Your right of course, the ruling class here needs an enemy and if they
don’t exist we create them.
One other thing we may agree on, the anti-Arab racism in the West is really out of sight. The main form of anti-semitism now is anti-Arab racism, more so than anti-Jewish sentiment.
Posted by blondemike on Dec 18, 2006 at 6:49 PM
Mike, I am saddened to point out that you are guilty of ad hominem attacks.
For example You’re a rightwing weasel. and low IQ, rightwing pinhead like yourself ...
So I will borrow one of your favorites ... pot, scrub thyself.
Ad hominem abusive or ad personam
Ad hominem abusive (also called argumentum ad personam) usually and most notoriously involves insulting one’s opponent, but can also involve pointing out factual but damning character flaws or actions.
ad hominem
And maybe I am guilty now too for pointing it out. Oh well.
But it is very nice to see Mike and Redhorse getting along.
Now play nice with Whattheheck.
Well , what is interesting is that BM can see the “ad hominen"racist attacks on Arabs….he can understand the struggle poor Venezuelans engage in with their leader, Pres. Hugo Chavez….But shows little if any understanding or acumen , for issues that confront the Afrikan Amerikan community…..No critical analysis of the larger super-structure of racism, that has become acceptable sense Ron Reagans era , the medias role in portraying persons of Afrikan hertitage as stigmatically criminalized….This is what is troubling to Redhorse ,concerning the nature and character of the BM…...But David , no ” ad hominen” or ” argumentum ad personam ” attacks from this Horse…....For now at least…...
Now WTH is a skeptic by experience…one would gather that in order to truely convince WTH…he would need to see the body count administered in person…Maybe if Ross Perot went over to Iraq and supervized the casualty reports, it would convince WTH( satirical humor , not argumentum ad personam)...WTH, the nature of war is such, that innocent people are slaughtered….sense the US illegally invaded this country ( Iraq ) , the ugly reality is that the genocide belongs on the doorstep of the Bush regime…the US Gov’t….and Amerika…..
Posted by Redhorse on Dec 19, 2006 at 5:25 AM
Redhorse, David (glad you
Posted by whattheheck on Dec 19, 2006 at 7:56 AM
WTH, I don’t want to keep repeating myself but the evidence of Bush’s lying and US aggression is overwhelming. I am not running for office
but there’s nothing substantive I’d change in my comments.
The US policy since WW2 has been perpetual war for perpetual peace,
see the massive 1952 book of this same title edited by Harry Elmer Barnes. And it hasn’t gotten better since then, only much worse !
Since no one claimed that all Arabs or Muslims are wonderful you’re
either flogging a dead horse or making a nonsequitur. Nor is anyone
claiming that ALL Jews are responsible for Israel’s crimes. My wife
doesn’t support Israel though way too many American Jews as well
as the Christian Zionist nuts do.
Redhorse, I agree a bit with you about the increase in racism since Reagan. Clarence Thomas dismantled the EEOC to the point where
it is ineffective in fighting job discrimination by race and age. There
is more gender favoritism to women still, not only white women.
David, an ad hominem argument is one that is used in place of any
supporting arguments, I gave supporting arguments. I did harshly characterize WTH after making the same arguments many times over
without any counterarguments from him but only psychobabble and
nonsequiturs as to how could believe a former Secretary of State when
she acknowledged a major US crime, sanctions which ultimately killed
two million Iraqis.
WTH seems to think the facts here don’t exist and that if we REALLY
knew what was going on we’d all support the great minds like Bush
and Cheney who got us into this disaster. BULL !
Under international law the insurgents are not guilty because they are
fighting a foreign occupation of their country. We are not in Iraq to do
social work, we are not in Iraq to create democracy for a 5,000 year
old civilization that doesn’t want our dubious brand of “democracy”
and cowboy capitalism. We ARE in Iraq to do Israel’s dirty work
and that even much more than the oil. If we go into Iran that will be
to do Israel’s dirty work again. Idiots on the left like Chomsky who
do not recognize AIPAC’s role are doing us a disservice. They can
get 95 Senators and 400 Representatives to sign ANY petition for
Israel at ANY time. The NRA and AARP in their wildest wet dreams
do not possess this sort of power. I believe it’s an insane combo
of holocaust guilt combined with anti-Arab racism. Although Halliburton
is making big bucks there, I do not believe it is primarily the oil companies running the show here but Israel and the neocons here.
It’s not PC to bring this up because it’s the great unmentionable.
As James Baldwin once wrote it’s like a body buried under the table
and everyone tries to ignore it but after a while no can really talk
about anything else.
Posted by blondemike on Dec 19, 2006 at 10:01 AM
Redhorse,
Yes, there is none so blind as he who will not see but I don’t think Mike is blind, maybe just a little nearsighted (satirical humor, not argumentum ad personam). As for ad hominem and insults I can safely say we are all guilty of it to some degree at one time or another.
Whattheheck,
Thank you. Glad to be back. I went on a walkabout of the web for awhile but eventually came back to these old stomping grounds. Old friends are the best. Even if we disagree.
Mike,
There are subtypes of ad hominem for which I provided a definition and source to support my assertion and without supporting evidence for your assertion that WTH is a weasel and has a low IQ I can’t help but characterize it as an insult and therefore an argumentum ad personam. I can appreciate your frustration but can’t help but see that it is a pot calling the kettle black situation.
David, it would only be the pot calling the kettle black if my arguments
had begun to approach his in both historical inaccurracy and flippant
disregard of the facts as presented combined with a total failure to
even attempt a rebuttal. If you think his responses are in way adequate
to address the points I made then the epithets I applied to him go for you too.
Posted by blondemike on Dec 19, 2006 at 12:23 PM
Left out “any” before “way” in sentence four above but I trust my point
was stil clear. My remarks are aimed at WTH and David’s pathetic
attempt to go to his defense.
Posted by blondemike on Dec 19, 2006 at 12:25 PM
If you think his responses are in way adequate to address the points I made ...
Adequate, not at all. But you still insulted him and that is an ad hominem by definition.
Look Mike, I have gone round and round on showing respect for one another in these discussions with many people, Redhorse included, and once having made my point I am more than willing to let it go and let you carve each other up with words but I fail to see how insulting weasels and making derogatory comments about someone’s IQ facilitate a meaningful and productive discussion.
I was not defending WTH from your rebuttal (I agree with your rebuttal) but from your insults.
Don’t you think it best that people stick to rebutting and forgo the insulting?
OK….David…I appreciate your point…and concerning you , I do refrain from the personal attacks…Generally though , I have no problem with expressing discontent with viewpoints that are egregious…in a manner that is argumentum ad personam…..
Now BM is like night and day…all of a sudden he sounds reasonable…this I do not trust…..
WTH…I have heard this argument from you in the past…Personally , I do not understand your skepticisms , this scenario of war profiteering is not new….Bush is just the latest , not the greatest…( personally I think his daddy is a much better hustler than the son…)Bush 41 was much smoother in the Iran / Contra deal ; Manuel Noriega…CIA drug smuggling setup….getting Saddam Hussien to hang himself by telling him to invade Kuwiat…and then kicking him out…Bush 43 is a klutz….
Posted by Redhorse on Dec 19, 2006 at 2:10 PM
Mike, In the interests of peace, may I suggest we try to get along?
When I initially met you at this thread, Fear and Voting in the USA, at Posted by David in Canada on Nov 8, 2006 at 3:48 PM, we seemed to get along so well.
I think we have much in common and although we seem to disagree about a few things such as at this thread,The Godless Fundamentalist, I would like it if we could agree to disagree without resorting to taunts and insults.
“Tis the season; Peace on earth to men of good will.
I do have good will towards you so can’t we have peace too?
Merry Christmas, Mike. Best wishes for the New Year.
David…I appreciate your point…and concerning you , I do refrain from the personal attacks…
Redhorse, Thanks, I appreciate your consideration, hopefully I am not guilty of an egregious viewpoint and thereby worthy of a personal attack. I can appreciate your point as well, sometimes these discussions are very frustrating. We can’t see each other smile when we do use some satirical humour without resorting to smiley faces =) and somehow the lack of personal face to face contact tends to make all of us more susceptible to using personal attacks. A conundrum.
It’s just that I feel that sometimes the message gets lost in the viciousness of the argumentum ad personam. You remember Rabbit of course, and while he has gone on to other fields and I went with him for a time, now I have returned to this field again. I like it here. Rabbit and I went round and round sometimes too but he is always my friend. He could be especially vicious at times ... never to me but often to others and I made the same points to him. I told him his message needs to be heard but sometimes the message wasn’t even heard for all the taunts and insults that went with it. He considered my words of advice and while he remained Rabbit he was a little more tame.
Anyways, Redhorse, while I may remind you, and others, to be respectful , or at least try to be, you are free to conduct yourself as you see fit. You may fire when ready, Gridley.
Peace and good will to you, Redhorse.
Have a Merry (agnostic) Christmas and all the best in the New Year.
Whattheheck, Peace and good will to you too.
We have had our disagreements in the past and will probably have more in the future.
Nonetheless I want to wish you a Merry Christmas (agnostic too if memory serves me correctly) and all the best in the New Year.
David, again it’s only ad hominem if used in LIEU of an argument.
It’s not against the rules of logic to call an SOB an SOB.
By your daft reasoning anyone who attacks anyone is guilty of an
ad hominem but since we are debating with real people, not ghosts,
it’s legitimate to characterize them, the only issue being is the characterization accurate or not. I will defend its accuracy.
But we are not enemies and Season’s Best to you too.
RH, Nina Wax and I wrote a lengthy piece for Z Magazine in April,
1990 on Bush Sr, John Hull, North and the whole Contra drugs
for guns network. You are absolutely right in all of your comments
about Bush Sr above & Noreiga, Hussein, etc.
Season’s Best to you, Redhorse. I love Christmas and I think it
originated as a pagan holiday in Scandinavia.
Posted by blondemike on Dec 19, 2006 at 4:25 PM
Thanks Mike. I am glad we are not enemies.
As for the defintion of ad hominem, my reasoning is not daft as you so charitably characterize it. My reasoning is based on the definition I provided, see the link several posts up, which clearly states ad hominem can also involve pointing out factual but damning character flaws or actions.
Ad hominem abusive (also called argumentum ad personam) usually and most notoriously involves insulting one’s opponent, but can also involve pointing out factual but damning character flaws or actions. The reason that this is fallacious is that - usually, anyway - insults and even damaging facts simply do not undermine what logical support there might be for one’s opponent’s arguments or assertions; argumentum ad personam short-circuits these potential arguments from logic in favor of a direct attack on the opponent’s authority.
So while some types of ad hominem may be used in LIEU of an argument it can also include a straight up insult, even a factual one.
And even if you don’t agree with this definition of ad hominem the fact remains that your insults to WTH were unnecessary and did not contibute in any meaningful way to the discussion except to turn it into a flame war.
As for Christmas, I agree that it is a traditional holiday of pagan origin, co-opted by Chritianity, for better or worse (one of my many heresies). Many of the pagans who converted simply wanted to bring their traditions with them to their new religion and the priests, eager for converts by any means, converted the pagan tradition as well. My Oma (grandmother) won’t have anything to do with Christmas, because of the pagan origin, but when she came to this country after WWII she was shocked to see women wearing pants and swore she would never dress like a man, yet these days, many years later, she does wear pants.
Give Christmas another millenium or two and we will hardly recognize it.
My remarks to WTH were necessary and justified. At that point I was reading him the riot act after spending way too much time trying to reason with him. I already contributed what was necessary to the debate such as it was. The unsourced definition above is convoluted.
It reads like too many authors on this board who confuse verbiage with profundity. I’ll make my own decisions as to how to react, thank you.
You might concentrate on yourself and the virtue of conciseness.
Excuse me but why I would begin to care what Christmas would be
like in a millenium ??????????
I enjoy it now and that’s all that matters.
Posted by blondemike on Dec 19, 2006 at 6:08 PM
Mike, if you felt it was necessary that’s fine. As I previously mentioned to Redhorse you are free to conduct yourself as you see fit and the same goes for you. Carry on but please consider my advice to try to be respectful as much as is possible. It’s worth the effort.
You might concentrate on yourself and the virtue of conciseness ...
Please elaborate. I am open to criticism, constructive or otherwise.
Excuse me but why I would begin to care what Christmas would be
like in a millenium ??????????
Just an observation as you mentioned it’s pagan origins from milleniums ago.
You don’t have to care. Still a little prickly, eh Mike?
Speaking of conciseness ... were 10 question marks really necessary?
(a little joke)
Christmas ain’t nothin’ but a bunch of capitalistic profiteering baa humbug…
Work hard all year long…too go into dept till June of the next year( according to current spending documentation )...then lie to the poor, trusting little ones….telling them that your love and devotion take second seeding to some benevolently mythical fat , drunk ol’white dude….The first great lie…setting the young ones up for a life of confusing priorities, religious daftness , and economical slavery….
The one time of the year when working folks could send a message to the ruling class ( one could at least teach the young generation not to fall for the same foolishness )...Ah , the Wall Street propoganda…Yu know why they call it Wall street….because back in the day , during the slave trade….the finance district in New York was of course , the place where afrikan slaves were bought and sold….traded….many of the well to do patrons, found objection to the sight of all this human cargo being unloaded from the gallows of slaveships….So the solution was to built a wall….Wall Street
Blood in my eye…...................................................................................
Posted by Redhorse on Dec 20, 2006 at 1:10 AM
Mike, Redhorse, JonB, David, Cabdriver,
I repeat: My argument generally is that too many people are assuming too much too often.
Mike says I don
Posted by whattheheck on Dec 20, 2006 at 8:43 AM
They were ONLY over here because WE have been over there for generations propping up Israel’s dispossession of millions of Palestinian Arabs and backing rightwing Arab dictatorships in Kuwait,
Saudi Arabia and most of the Arab World including the murderous Shah
of Iran for a long time.
The terrorist training camps only came into existence in response to
US & Israeli State Terror against the Palestinians and other Arabs.
The USA is the leading terrorist state in the world, see Chomsky’s
Rogue State and William Blum’s Rogue States.
We have no influence over the Sudanese govt to stop Darfur but we do
over Israel which we fund 100% to stop its aggression and we could
have a settlement there today if the US & Israel wanted it. They don’t
and the policy is to drive out as many Palestinians out as possible.
Removing Saddam in 1991 was an insane policy in an unjustified attempt to keep Kuwait, which is part of Iraq, in the hands of a corrupt monarchy.
The casualties would have been far worse in 1991 because by 2003
Iraq was greatly weakened by the sanctions and the deaths of millions
from same. Powell & Bush Sr very wisely ignored Far Right jackasses
like you. His STUPID son didn’t, hence the present mess.
THE US IS NOT THE WORLD’S POLICEMAN AND WE DO NOT HAVE ANY OBLIGATION WHATSOEVER TO AID ANY OR ALL OPPRESSED
GROUPS. USUALLY THE USA IS SUPPORTING OPPRESSIVE STATES
FROM ZAIRE TO ISRAEL TO SINGAPORE TO PAKISTAN TO GUATEMALA TO INDONESIA TO SOUTH KOREA TO EL SALVADOR TO
YOU NAME IT.
The Bosnia action was not positive as that “moderate” Islamic state
has ethnically cleansed every Serb and Croat it could AND gave passports to Bin Laden & all top Al Queda aides. And this goes double
for the Clinton-Blair ethnic cleansing of the Serbs in Kosovo in response
to a “genocide” that wasn’t happening.
Your insane idea of MORE troops is exactly what is not needed.
Maybe you can work for the lunatic Manchurian Johnboy McCain.
David, look at your many posts to see what I mean when I write more
conciseness would be nice on your part.
WTH, enough of your crap to start the morning.
Posted by blondemike on Dec 20, 2006 at 9:28 AM
Blondie,
Posted by whattheheck on Dec 20, 2006 at 12:17 PM
That still doesn’t mean I won’t rebut your nonsense if it’s egregious.
I am not in a personal feud with you, only concerned about the issues here.
Posted by blondemike on Dec 20, 2006 at 12:43 PM
And your response is still the same old failure to rebut my ” same old
shit.”
Posted by blondemike on Dec 20, 2006 at 12:45 PM
BM, You’d make one hell of a diplomat.
“I am not in a personal feud with you, only concerned about the issues here.”
Oh?
“Far Right jackasses like you.”
“Your insane idea…”
Just the most recent insults. Sounds rather personal to me. Don’t you realize you have insulted nearly everyone who posts on this site?
It is probably just as well that we never meet face to face.
Posted by whattheheck on Dec 20, 2006 at 2:22 PM
conciseness would be nice
Mike, Thanks for your advice. I will take it under consideration.
Clear, concise and (hopefully) correct are qualities I value and strive for.
And I always try to remember that conciseness and clarity, or lack of them, in no way take away from the correctness, or lack of it, of an argument.
Ok, David. And it’s not just you either.
Where is Canuckistan ?
WTH, I’m up for that face to face and you’re up for a serious beating I hear.
Posted by blondemike on Dec 20, 2006 at 4:01 PM
In case anyone has read down through all the bickering, back to Benn Michaels, or rather, diversity vs everything—maybe I am too forgiving, but I read his essay as mainly an urge to shift the question of inequality back a bit in the direction of economic inequality, not necessarily to discount the matter of race altogether, but maybe I’m putting my own filter over it. Michaels says “A world where some of us don’t have enough money is a world where the differences between us present a problem: the need to get rid of inequality or to justify it… We like to talk about the differences we can appreciate [race], and we don’t like to talk about the ones we can’t [financial resources].” He’s generalizing, but even if I don’t agree with how black-and-white (forgive me) he paints it to prove a point, he nevertheless has a point. It is ethically and pragmatically ridiculous, not to mention political suicide these days, to say that diversity is no longer an issue. But why isn’t there more of an issue made of poverty and all the unfairness of privilege? Here in Illinois, why has a citizenry and government accepted the practice of lavishing luxuries on schools of the northern and western suburbs while inner-city and downstate schools are literally falling apart? If the problem is disparity in property tax revenue, does this really justify perpetuation of the class divide? Come on. Poverty is a human issue, and is a problem with solutions, even if they require moving beyond “appreciation.”
Posted by beatricity on Dec 20, 2006 at 5:28 PM
On a vaguely related subject: do colored progressives “get” how wrong it is to charge clearly innocent white men with the rape of a black (exotic dancer) women? The Duke case is a prime example of how race politics can lead to the horrible abuse of the legal system. It is amazing that the case has not been dropped, the DA fired and the boys issued a full apology by the state (and the exotic dancer should be charged with filing false reports as well).
The OJ trail also was a clear case of race politics gone amuck. . .
Or is this just “:pay back” for real and imagined wrongs?
Pathetic.
Posted by wolf on Dec 21, 2006 at 10:23 AM
Your right, Wolf. But colored progressives and their self-hating white
apologists have dog doo for brains.
Posted by blondemike on Dec 21, 2006 at 12:58 PM
beatricity,
I cringe at the calls for
Posted by whattheheck on Dec 22, 2006 at 7:10 AM
“Unity” of what ? Making sense of your bumbling wordsalads is no
easy matter, What The Hell.
Posted by blondemike on Dec 22, 2006 at 1:09 PM
Blondie asks,
Posted by whattheheck on Dec 22, 2006 at 3:04 PM
WTH…..everything yu said was right on point…I guess the juxtaposition of WTH vs a BM , has given I better perspective on your personal ideology…
Yu are looking at the problem from a sound base…but what beatricity is saying is very complete also…that diversity is the issue…points to the enormous amount of talented and intelligent young people that will still be excluded , because they, ( the childs/students particular learning perspective does not fit the established testing goals.)...which of course…( have been shown to be unreliable in truthfully measuring the real abilities of students ), diversity speaks to quality….equality speaks to opportunity…we need both…just like a loving home enviroment…points to the parents being not only able to support the childs physical needs…but also emotional….The child….needs both , a strong family , needs both…and strong communities need both….
What I see , as policy in Amerika…in general , doesn’t even come close…under any perspective yu want the use…Equality or Quality are in short supply…especially…especially….went dealing with the subject of public education…( interesting insight…a child can be systematically discriminated against in the public educational system , but can find relative equality and quality in the military…but thats another discussion…).....
Remember if these two variables equality and quality were not rare commodities…there would be no juxtaposition against the two…the argument aways being basically , that…quantity is an acceptable substitute for equality…and that quality was in direct relation to a euro-centric values system…this perspective in and of itself…can be good..if yu fit into that paradigm….but if yu don’t…then it can become problematic….The perspective should be one based in balance…clearly looking at what does work..a curriculm that is inclusive…that presents information in a manner were student and instructor can interact….thats how real learning takes place….It’s hard work and requires some amount of patience…but it ain’t rocket science…Although the end result being that maybe the numbers of more socially conciuos physics scholars..( instead of military recruits )...of diverse heritages…goes up over the next few decades…...Not a bad trade off when yu look at the investment value…..
Posted by Redhorse on Dec 23, 2006 at 6:49 AM
Wolf…I wrote a response to your post that did not go thru…but in brief…first..I do not know who these “colored progressives” are…but they did not charge those Duke students with anything…the white DA charged them with the crime of rape, this guy wanted to get reelected so he played the race card game the way white politicians have for decades…Only difference is that he for some reason only he can tell yu , thought he could win against affluent white folks…who had the resourses to fight the false charge….Obviously the women involved was emotionally or economically motivated, a competent investigation would have proved helpful…she does have servere credibility problems…
Secondly…how or what does any of that have to do with ” colored progressive “....? I don’t get your logic…...You’re not trying to get your little bit of mileage out of this unfortunate situation are yu , that would be ethically duplicitous , wouldn’t it….hypocritical don’t yu think….? .Possibly appearing to be.. classified as a bigotedly disingenuous attempt to place blame for this whole ugly episode on the black community…....
Third , why is it so obvious now with the affluent white kids being victimized by the criminal justice system.. when it was , has been happening , and still is happening to poor black , hispanic…and native youth for decades…...? Come now Wolf….are yu that naive,delusionally possesed by daftness….?....
Fourth…what the Duke rape case does have to do with ” colored progressive “..is that it points out the facts of racial / socio-economic and judicial disparities in Amerika , that…...ARE ONLY CHAMPIONED BY INDIVIDUALS IN THE BLACK PROGRESSIVE RANKS….When it happens to those peoples children( black folks ), it’s not an issue….but now they have come for your kid ( affluent ,white male ), now… it’s all of a sudden an issue, and further than that….. the doing of Black Progressives…Please Wolf….can I get some of what yu are smoking…...
What next , are yu implying that the only way for white progressives to understand the world outside your little bubble is that a group of young white males , has to leave a strip club after a bachelor party..and become the gunned down victims of some overly zealot undercover police officers ; would this also be viewed as the responsiblity of those ” colored progressives”...Or the operations of psychopathic so-called law enforcement officers….madmen…who have avioded responsiblity for their actions….based off of the institutionalized license to kill , that is championed for so long on these Amerkan shores…...?
Don’t see much in the news about that unfortunate turn of events in NYC…..hmmm….?
If these boys were poor and black or hispanic…and the ” false ” victim was a white woman…( which we all know is the stigmatic reality behind all the emotions involved )...these kids would be in jail..falsely convicted , and fake little white progressive men like the BM would not have said squat..( except to praise the dubious abilities and questionable tactics of law enforcement )......I bet yu wouldn’t have said a thing either…wolf… If I had brought the subject up…yu would have mostly tryed to marginalized the point…....Spare us the sanctimonious act…..
As always BM’s monkeyed response is noted….....
Posted by Redhorse on Dec 23, 2006 at 9:40 AM
Redhorse,
You make some good observations here which never occurred to me.
Posted by whattheheck on Dec 23, 2006 at 1:40 PM
WTH and RH, between you two if electricity was brains you would light up a one watt bulb. There is plenty of “unity” under totalitarian states
and your model is the extreme collectivist-statist-socialist-fascist-communist army, I understand perfectly where you are coming from,
WTH. We just don’t agree.
RH, if those kids had been black they NEVER would have been charged
on so utterly flimsy a noncase. The DA has been trying to curry favor
with ignorant local blacks because this is an election year.
See the lewrockwell.com website and two dozen columns by William
Anderson on this disgusting pandering to endemic black racism by
a piece of shit DA who knew that lousy whore’s word wasn’t worth a
good goddamn to begin with, even the other black gal with her contradicted her from the get-go.
WTH, equality is a total myth and white Jews like my wife who spent
a month in a Mississipi jail in 1965 for doing civil rights work have come
to regret it, unless the whole Black Left Nationalist Self-Pitying Anti-White MO FO culture is totally repudiated it will be money down a rathole employing baboons like Redhorse SOLELY because they
are black and incompetent. A white male can’t get a city job in most
urban areas because of set aside quotas for incompetent blacks and
incompetent women, black women being the worst because they fill
BOTH quotas.
RH, you can just Suck My Duke, punk.
Posted by blondemike on Dec 24, 2006 at 2:41 PM
As always BM’s monkeyed response is noted…....
Posted by Redhorse on Dec 24, 2006 at 6:17 PM
WTH….the main aspect that is most interesting or troubling , is that there is an overabudance of money and resources going to the military that could be more wisely spent in the education arena….20 billion off the top of any military spending and we got all new schools in 10 years…another 10 billion for Head Start Programs / curriculm reform….400 billion dollars a year for the military….thats not including the so-called war on terror….this is unacceptable…..
Posted by Redhorse on Dec 24, 2006 at 6:36 PM
It is unfortunate that yu are unable to regain your sanity after our last exchange….BM. Apparently I ( my words ), have brought yu such mindless dis-ease that all yu are able to do is rant incoherently….Aah….such are the wages of the poor of heart and mind…
BM…your delusions of some kind of euro-aryan progressive nationalism is a pipe dream….The Amerika yu know is dead…the youth don’t want your ol’ racial bigotry…this is why yu do not understand shit…because yu are looking at the world like it was 19 fuckin’ 60….yu ol’ buzzard…Yu are an antique to most young folks( at 60+ ), and so are your viewpoints..
The future wants….DEMANDS… information that is relative to tomorrow , not yesterdays slop….Your ideology…..? ? whatever it is…..is simply a sad and extremely inadequate representation of your own personal demons….until yu surrender and give that negative energy over or back to the Universe…yu will continue to suffer ignorance / poverty of mind and soul / and anger…....
Its your choice…
Posted by Redhorse on Dec 24, 2006 at 7:32 PM
Redhorse,
Actually we and all other western nations have made extreme military budget cuts (under both Bush 41 and Clinton) as a percentage of GDP. The biggest transfer of money has been to the wealthy as a result of globalization scams and tax cuts.
All of life begins as risk (obvious in nature) and a game of survival. Everything which exists (and even that which does not) has an effect on everything else. I just read the Amazon reviews on a book recommended by Frog,
Posted by whattheheck on Dec 25, 2006 at 7:25 AM
Michael P. Hardesty (aka blondemike) Biography
Brackets [] indicate end note citations.
Mr. Hardesty is a person of strong opinions, but his relationships with fact and logic are weak or non-existent. Sorting through his thoughts (?), such as they are, is made infinitely more difficult by his inconsistency, reflecting his internal conflicts and scatter-brained approach to his chosen subject matter, which includes principally foreign and domestic politics.
Mr. Hardesty has a wife/companion/housemate/whatever named Nina, and four cats. They all live unhappily in Oakland in a mixed race neighborhood, for which they provide most of the mixing. Their domestic situation reflects Mr. Hardesty’s combative writing style, as they are involved in legal actions against their neighbors and their veterinarian, and arguments with the Oakland Police Department.
At various times, Mr. Hardesty has claimed to have a Ph.D. and a moderately high IQ; both claims are certainly spurious. Mr. Hardesty’s footprints are all over the Internet, with no indication of academic accomplishment, much less intelligence. But do not confuse our Mr. Michael P. Hardesty with Michael P. Hardesty, the NOAA scientist, or Michael P. Hardesty, the artist, or Michael P. Hardesty, the business executive, and possibly not Michael P. Hardesty, the felon convicted of cocaine and weapons possession. But it is interesting that our Michael P. Hardesty talks of his .357 Magnum, and the felonious Michael P. Hardesty had a .357 Magnum. As a convicted felon, the felonious Michael P. Hardesty would be forbidden to own a weapon, so that excludes our Michael P. Hardesty. Right?
Regardless of any felonicity, our friend Mike’s inconsistency is well documented. As a left-liberal, Mike has certain assumed attitudes, but his belief system is intermittently shaken by reality:
My housemate and I have been almost the sole whites living in a largely Afro-American neighborhood as homeowners the past four years. Our experiences have caused us to revise our formerly glib left-liberal assumptions on race, welfare, civil rights, affirmative action, gun control, identity politics, rent control, ad nauseam. [1]
Maybe that explains the Mag.
Mike is also inconsistent in his political writings. If you have been following his semi-literate arguments, Mike is a cultic follower of Noam Chomsky. Sometimes.
I’ve known and corresponded with Chomsky for almost two decades and recently parted ways with him over his god complex, refusal to acknowledge any errors at all, his recent contortions on the nonexistent silent genocide in Afghanistan and the preposterous lie that thousands or millions may have died as a result of Clinton’s bombing of the Sudan pharmaceutical factory in error. And many more issues where I have butted heads with him. [2]
But opposites attract, and likes repel. Mike “refus(es) to acknowledge any errors at all”, and he proclaims “genocide” by capitalism where none exists. No wonder Mike broke with Chomsky, but you couldn’t tell it from his writings, because Mike has consistently argued on ITT that Chomsky is so great.
Mike’s writing style may be characterized as haphazard, obscene, and scatalogical, but if it were not scatalogic, it would have no logic at all. He is big into labels: dumb, stupid, moron, liar, bastard. But he is opposed to ad hominem attacks. Go figure. His signature spelling/grammar error is his use of “your” when he means the homophonic contraction “you’re”. MIKE IS ALSO BIG ON ALL CAPS AND LOTS OF EXCLAMATION POINTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AND QUESTION MARKS???????????
Besides ITT, Mike has had running arguments in many Internet venues, which make for interesting reading up to a point, when the story line collapses into sameness and boredom. Mike has been banned from several sites. [2], [3]
Mike is big on making idle and not-so-idle threats from behind the (former) security of his keyboard, including advocating use of the Mag and decapitation. Mike wants me to give him my location so he can come kick my butt. But he did not give his location, I had to go find it. It is my firm belief that Mike is of short stature, probably not more than 5’-6”. This is based on his constant and irrelevant references to size, a classic example of the projection defense mechanism; Mike calls me a little man, because he is insecure about his height. But I had to knock the heels off my combat boots to get under the height restrictions to get into airborne school. You still want to kick butt, Michael P.?
[1] http://search.eastbayexpress.com/Issues/2001-07-25/news/letters.html
[2] http://oliverkamm.typepad.com/blog/2004/11/chomskys_outlet.html
[3] Blog and website citations:
http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/discuss/1774/
http://www.oaklandnews.com/archives/000061.html
http://www.tomgpalmer.com/archives/015527.php
http://www.berkeleydailyplanet.com/article.cfm?archiveDate=12-28-01&storyID=9248
http://www.zmag.org/ZMag/articles/hardesty.htm
http://www.berkeleydaily.org/opinion_article.cfm?archiveDate=12-28-01&storyID=9248
http://www.sfweekly.com/Issues/1998-04-15/news/letters.html
Posted by scorp on Dec 25, 2006 at 10:12 PM
scorp,
Thanks for the BM data. Actually, I was beginning to feel a bit guilty for yanking his chain and foe some of my insults. At least I can say that anyone who likes animals can
Posted by whattheheck on Dec 26, 2006 at 9:10 AM
Scorp, as usual you are full of shit. Just for the record I’m 6’1.
I’m glad your Fed employers have helped you in your “research.”
Sure, I’ll kick your stinky butt, punk. I’ve whipped you in every
intellectual exchange we’ve had and I correctly called the shots
on your govt involvement several weeks back on the other ITT thread
because I could see how testy you became on the subject of Paul
Brenner and his reign in Occupied Iraq. To date you have not made
one COHERENT argument, much less a refutation of any sort.
You have specialized in ad hominem attacks in lieu of serious
argument.
The record of five centuries of genocide under capitalism is rather
well documented by scholars ranging from Harry Elmer Barnes to
Howard Zinn to Eugene Genovese to most historians. It’s not even
controversial. Anywhere from ten to one hundred million Blacks were
killed in the very capitalistic slave trade, anywhere from a few million
to 10 to 35 million “Indians” killed north of the Rio Grande by the
capitalistic empires of Britain & France and many more killed south
of the Rio Grande by the capitalistic empire of the Spanairds.
Several hundred thousand Filipinos killed by the US in the “liberation”
of the Phillipines in 1898. Ergo for Cuba, Hawaii and Puerto Rico at
the same time. Hundreds of thousands killed by capitalist US proxy
terror states in El Salvador, Guatemala, Brazil, Chile, Haiti, the Dominican
Republic, Argentina, Colombia, Peru, Panama, Nicaragua etc. just during
the course of the 20th century.
Actually hundreds of thousands of Nicaraguans alone were
killed by the US fascist contra thugs. See Carleton Beals
and J. Fred Rippy just on capitalism’s huge death toll in Latin
America. Chomsky is good here too but only one of many.
On Chomsky, just like anyone else, I laud him when he’s right
and criticize him when he’s wrong. I know that’s kind of complex
for your tiny mind, “Scorp.”
See William Blum’s 1983 book CIA for the estimates of six million
killed by the US Capitalist foreign policy from 1945-1980. And that
figure is sadly out of date today.
Your is as valid as you’re. When one is exclusively focussing on an
individual item, then you’re is appropriate, when a more general or
collective sense is meant, then your is appropriate. Coming from
someone like yourself who can’t write a coherent sentence, who
can’t spell the simplest words and whose sentence structure is often
unintelligible, the grammar lessons are a hoot.
I’m glad my caps the other day so got under your skin, “Scorp” or
whatever your real identity is. The reason I did it big time on that
particular occasion was that I was tired of repeating the same points
over ad infinitum. I thought maybe you would catch it if it were bolded
and apparently you did because you have never stopped whining
ever since.
I’ve never been convicted of a felony or any other crime. Your statement
here is per se libelous and if you would reveal your name & address,
I’d be happy to sue you. The rest of your comments are the usual
venomous garbage but the felony statement is a pure libel.
Philosophically I have been completely consistent in my left libertarian
views. Politically I’ve changed my mind when the facts warranted it
or I discovered a better interpretation of events.
Scorp, you are a coward, a lowlife, a libeler and an agent provocateur.
The only site I was ever banned from was the Oakland News, run by
a local Demo Party hack named Jeannette Sherwin. She regularly
banned people she disagreed with including most members of
the Oakland City Council. Shortly after she banned me she was struck
dead. Good riddance was the almost universal reaction here.
Redhorse, as usual your drug and drink induced words make no
sense.
WTH, you better get your facts from other than a govt financed agent
provocateur like “Scorp.”
Again, “Scorp” I challenge you to reveal your real identity.
Posted by blondemike on Dec 26, 2006 at 10:44 AM
Coming from a schizo….I’ll take your comments as proof of the fact , that yu are a rambling idiot…lost in his own anal-retentive drama…..
It’s funny how close Scorps outline of your personality…is so close to what Redhorse imaged…even down to the fact that your neighbors find yu obnoxious….Why am I not surprized…....................’ toon..
Posted by Redhorse on Dec 26, 2006 at 1:29 PM
Redhorse, Scorp is a rightwing white trash version of you.
It’s no more complicated than that. Scorp is not only a
government agent provocateur but a prime example of
what Senator Robert Byrd, D, W. VA, called
a “whigger.” See if you can figure that one out.
The only neighbors that don’t like us are two criminals, we have
great relations with all the rest including several black families.
They share our distaste for black criminals like yourself.
Nina is the captain of our neighborhood crime alert group.
Please spare us the pseudo-psych ramblings. We stopped
our heavy giving to the United Negro College Fund when they
started turning out too many illiterates like yourself.
Scorp, WTH and you MIGHT light up a one watt bulb if
electricity were brains on your best days.
What be yo’ ghetto, little hinepos ? Philly ? Camden ?
Posted by blondemike on Dec 26, 2006 at 2:38 PM
My housemate and I have been almost the sole whites living in a largely Afro-American neighborhood as homeowners the past four years. Our experiences have caused us to revise our formerly glib left-liberal assumptions on race, welfare, civil rights, affirmative action, gun control, identity politics, rent control, ad nauseam.
The only neighbors that don’t like us are two criminals, we have great relations with all the rest including several black families.
So, will the real Mr. Hardesty please stand up? Are things so bad in your neighborhood that it has caused you “to revise our formerly glib left-liberal assumptions on race, welfare, civil rights, affirmative action, gun control, identity politics, rent control, ad nauseam (sic)” or do you really “have great relations with all the rest including several black families”? Or do you just say any damn-fool thing that pops into your head at the moment? And where does the Mag fit into all this?
Posted by scorp on Dec 26, 2006 at 2:52 PM
No….BM…..Scorp is not a friend of the Redhorse…..Based off of the Political Compass scores yu are more likely to see eye to eye with the Scorp , at least on matters of economics..Didn’t yu score…somewhere in the fascist range…....? .chucky..
Posted by Redhorse on Dec 26, 2006 at 3:07 PM
The last quote doesn’t contradict the earlier quote. It’s a difference of
several years and getting to know our noncriminal neighbors.
When we were the first whites we did run into some serious problems
from just a few people but the others stood by and ignored it. As we
have gotten established over the last decade relationships have now
improved. Many blacks are quite conservative on noncivil rights issues
such as welfare, affirmative action, rent control, gun control, school
busing and we strongly share their views. My wife comes from a leftist
background and I originally from a libertarian background.
We still have a couple of black criminal neighbors but we try to
give them wide berth. And several blacks now share our negative
attitude towards the whole lumpen mo fo black anti-culture.
Redhorse, I still don’t know the meaning of my score in that test.
Posted by blondemike on Dec 26, 2006 at 3:19 PM
Scorp & Redhorse,
Life is funny. A couple days a ago I made an appeal on this thread for more unity
Posted by whattheheck on Dec 26, 2006 at 3:29 PM
Blondie,
Calm down. This is just a discussion venue, not a recruiting forum for a world takerover. For a while how about trying to just state your own position, read some other ones, kick back, relax and give different ideas some thought.
Life is too short for so much anger. (And it can make it still shorter.)
Posted by whattheheck on Dec 26, 2006 at 3:35 PM
I’d like to know what the Jews have done to M. Hardesty to make him so hostile to them. Certainly Jews have nothing to do with the maladies of the distinguished M. Hardesty!!
Posted by cabdriverinchicago on Dec 26, 2006 at 3:52 PM
Chicago, I never intended on bringing up the subject of holocaust
revisionism but was only replying to what appeared to be an implication
by Scorp that Crystal Night was the start of the so-called holocaust.
Scorp later denied that he meant to say that. Okay.
I pointed out that even the establishment “scholars” here date it from
summer 1942-summer 1944. You then burst in with a crazed attack
on me and I decided to respond. You do not speak for the “Jewish
people.” You would not have the slightest knowledge of my interactions
with many Jews, so why bother to comment ? My wife is Jewish and
that’s all you need to know.
WTH, your right that I am taking this much too seriously. I just found
Scorp’s “research” quite creepy. And it was part of a pattern to discredit
the message by attacking the messenger.
Scorp, mag is strictly for self-protection. I don’t hunt, am not a
vegetarian nut but it’s just not my bag. I support the NRA. One
of the few pressure groups worth a damn.
Posted by blondemike on Dec 26, 2006 at 4:07 PM
That’s the point ol’ man….nobody here can understand and or figure out your message….BM….Not WTH , nor Cabbie…..certianly not Redhorse….even your ol’ friend David…came by…and was friendly…but yu cursed him too….So…at great risk too further boredom….What the hell is your message….? Because trashing black folks will only get yu bonus points with the Klan or Micheal Richards…...YU HAVE NO MESSAGE….
Posted by Redhorse on Dec 26, 2006 at 4:18 PM
Scorp, I have to add that you would have been banned
from Jeannette Sherwin’s online only Oakland News.
She was a hardcore Democratic Party hack and was furious
with Nina & I for voting for Nader in 2000. I tried to patiently
explain to her why even from a progressive viewpoint the
Dems were a fraud. I wasn’t endorsing the GOP, just bashing
the Dems and I did support the Gray Davis recall. I voted for
Tom McClintock, an intelligent conservative Republican because
I agreed with him on economic issues but not on abortion, etc.
Arnie’s a dunce but better than Davis. She had a fit. Her ex was
Carl Pope, head of the Sierra club whom I went to high school
with back near DC. They had adopted a black orphan and he
turned out to be the kid from hell, has been in state prison for
many years. Jeannette ending up HATING blacks because she
lived near door to a huge public housing project in north Oakland.
There were shootings and knifings galore, public defecation and
urination, drug dealing, public sex, tire slashings, etc., all the common
stuff in too many neighborhoods. But she was so politically correct
that she still voted against proposals by black statesman Ward Connerly
to end affirmative action ! I labelled the Demo replacement
candidate, Bustamante, as Bustabeaner because he was a worthless
halfassed professional Latino. She thought that was “racist.”
Even though she regularly used the N word. He went down in flames
and even some top Demo Party officials backed The Terminator instead.
Last I heard Jeannette was in a very warm, southerly place.
Posted by blondemike on Dec 26, 2006 at 4:23 PM
Horse, you can’t even spell MICHAEL !
Damn, but your a stupid SOB. I never attacked
ALL black folks but only the black communist trash
that thinks like you.
David and I are quite friendly.
I don’t fit a simpleminded left-right pattern and it drives
all the ideologues here crazy !
At heart I’m blacker than you, horse, in the good affirmative
sense of black being the strongest color. Have no use for
these faux, fake high yeller negroes like you.
Chicago, I must confess that my wife does have a very low
opinion of most Jewish males and after meeting her father
& brother I could understand why. As a good progressive I try
to urge her not to generalize. Unfortunately, Chicago, people
like you CREATE anti-semitism. You are your own worst enemy.
I’m willing to take you on as a therapy patient but my rates are
very high.
Scorp, I never received my Ph.D’s from Eureka College.
That strictly is cow country.
Posted by blondemike on Dec 26, 2006 at 4:33 PM
WTH…......yu do have an eye for the ironic…..I’ll make sure I’m sitting when I laugh about that one….I did try to briefly make that point to BM….but yu know how that ended…..the guys an enigma….
So now Redhorse , WTH….and Scorp are bedfellows in conspiracies…..I would guess that stranger scenarios have appeared….
Posted by Redhorse on Dec 26, 2006 at 4:34 PM
WTH,
You seem slightly conservative but well informed, fair, and reasonable. Do you have any comments on BM’s violent commitment to Holocaust Revisionism? It’s really quite frightening!! I never thought I’d see this stuff on the ITT blog even from the worst trolls. What are your thoughts?
Posted by cabdriverinchicago on Dec 26, 2006 at 4:38 PM
Redhorse, if you think that only Klansmen are fed of up
of massive Afro anti-social behavior, you are one deluded
fool. Most of the GOP victories since 1966 have been due to
Middle American backlash against massive black criminality.
31% of Oaktown but 78% of the crimes. 8% of Frisco but at
least 60% of the crime.
Time for a reality check, bro. In 1991 Duke won 60% of the
Euro American vote running for Governor of Louisiana.
He’s a hell of a handsome dude since his plastic surgery too.
At the time Nina and I cheered his defeat but now….....................
Posted by blondemike on Dec 26, 2006 at 4:39 PM
Chicago, don’t pester WTH with your holohoax obsessions and
where do you get off applying the adjective “violent” to me ?
Someone who disagrees with you is per se anti-Jewish and violent ??????????????????
Troll definition———someone who beats your ass in a debate.
Redhorse, are you capable of writing a coherent, completed
sentence ?
Posted by blondemike on Dec 26, 2006 at 4:43 PM
You have proven NONE of your baseless and violently hateful assertions. Of Course HR is bigotry. To negate the reality of the worst planned genocide ever in order to hold it up rather as an example of the pernicious and deceitful nature of the victims who scored the entire myth at the expense of all humanity is to you not a bigoted act? You are truely nuts. Since you are the ones accusing the Jews and others of lying than the burden of proof is on you to show the story is false. Wiesenthal and other scholars have proven the opposite to the satisfaction of most people including many of the best professional historians.
Why does Nina disdain Jewish males? They are amoung the most successful and loving mates and most women like them.
Posted by cabdriverinchicago on Dec 26, 2006 at 4:50 PM
.....” Redhorse . if you think that only Klansmen are [ fed of up of ]massive Afro-anti-social behavior….” BM…..what the HELL are yu trying to say….? When you’re mad , yu have a real problem with writing coherent statements…........true.
The nations move to the right has nothing to do with anything but for the fact that this nation is full of a bunch of superstitious rednecks such as yourself…Typical to blame your ignorance on others…so childish of you….ol ’ boy..
Posted by Redhorse on Dec 26, 2006 at 4:56 PM
I never claimed to have proven anything. I referred you to the sources
so you can check it out yourself. You have never proven anything either.
I reiterated only the main conclusions and referred you to the research.
No, I have no burden of proof as I am doubting the positive assertions
made. And if you go to look up the refutations of Wiesenthal, Wiesel,
etc., you’ll see exactly where their critics have honed in.
Why are you so frightened to check them out ?
On the Jewish male issue just take a long look in the mirror and you’ll
see what Nina was referring to. Your last statement is unbelievably comical.
It was no accident that all the founders of modern feminism
are Jewish females. What and who do you think they were rebelling
against ?
RH, I very clearly wrote down what I intended to say in plain english.
I realize that is not your native tongue but why should that be my
problem ?
Posted by blondemike on Dec 26, 2006 at 6:00 PM
BM says….” RH , I very clearly wrote down what I intended to say in plain english…..”
WRONG AGAIN…..yu impudent fool , please then , explain the phrase….( fed of up of )...? .That is not clear english…the edit function….fool. just use the edit function…..HaHaHaHaHa…..................’ toon.
Posted by Redhorse on Dec 27, 2006 at 4:27 AM
Redhorse,
Posted by whattheheck on Dec 27, 2006 at 10:14 AM
RH, if I put an extra “of” in that sentence, I apologize. But receiving
grammar lessons from you is analogous to a lecture on sobriety
from the town drunk !
The meaning of my sentence is clear to all but the hopelessly
retarded.
Posted by blondemike on Dec 27, 2006 at 10:21 AM
Cabby,
I have a hard time with the carelessness with which the terms left/right, liberal/conservative get slapped on people, issues, motives. I think of myself as a conservative in the sense that I want to preserve the best of the America where I grew up and extend it to the whole country. (Other countries having it is OK, but it
Posted by whattheheck on Dec 27, 2006 at 10:25 AM
WTH, you simply need to honestly look at the revisionist works which
debunk the myth of gassings or mass killings at Dachau, even the
Jewish Agency admitted no death camps on German soil. They
claim it all took place in Poland but that has been debunked bigtime.
I can recommend several sites and specific print books. There were
plenty of US-UK-French crimes during the war and after the war against
German civilians, I doubt Ike ever showed those tours.
The Nazis never exterminated millions of civilians in a centrally planned
manner primarily using gas chambers as was commonly claimed.
The Germans certainly committed their share of atrocities and were
as capable of killing as anyone else, it just never happened as described.
That 1-2 million European Jews died of all causes in
Europe during WW 2 is a tragedy but the lying, unconscionable
exaggeration & exploitation of this needs to end now.
I agree with your general take on the inadequacy of the left/right
paradigm to explain things.
Anyway if people want to challenge their own prejudices here I’ve
given the proper references. If not, nothing to discuss.
Posted by blondemike on Dec 27, 2006 at 12:20 PM
Blondemike,
I
Posted by whattheheck on Dec 27, 2006 at 5:51 PM
WTH, it’s not JUST the headcount although after religiously batting
that around for 60 years the establishment can’t wiggle out scot free
if the number is vastly inflated.
Three main elements are in contention here.
1) There was no centrally planned conspiracy to exterminate
Europe’s Jews.
2) There were no gas chambers, which heretofore been presented
as the main engine of extermination.
3) The six million figure is grossly inflated.
These are the revisionist contentions and this is what people in two
dozen countries go to prison for asserting.
Other issues such as the now totally discredited lampshades
and bars of soap of human skin are peripheral points as well
as the likely possibility that Anne Frank’s “Diary’ was probably
written after WW2 by her Dad or someone he hired.
Photos can be doctored and even Jewish sources do not claim
Dachau as an extermination camp anymore. There is book available
from ihr.org titled Innocent At Dachau, you might read it.
99% of the stuff about Mengele and human torture is bullshit.
The Nazis in fact executed wardens of camps that allowed prisoner
abuse, they wanted the Jews for slave labor and they were concerned
about them as a Fifth Column while they were fighting a three front war.
None of the orthodox establishment Jewish or Gentile historians claim
that any even small portion of what they describe as the holocaust
(since 1970) died from experiments or torture.
You have only read one side of the established propaganda.
To come to an intelligent conclusion you have to read where the
orthodox version is wrong.
Up to the “holocaust” the standard and revisionist versions do not
greatly disagree, they all acknowledge the Nazi persecution of the
Jews. They make differ over claims of many killings on Crystal
Night (not true) but both sides agree that till late 1941 the Nazi goal
was emigration and not extermination of the Jews of Europe.
I can only refer to sources so you check your ingrained views here.
If you are too scared to have your assumptions or premises questioned
that’s your business. I’m not trying to convert anyone.
They had crematoriums for the disposal of the dead, most were NOT
worked to death and Frankl’s account has been called into question.
They were not burned alive in “ovens” only after death cremated which
was widely accepted in Europe and the practical way to cope with so
many deaths caused BY DISEASE DUE TO ALLIED BOMBING AND
BLOCKADE OF SUPPLIES. This doesn’t absolve the Nazis, the
Germans probably killed 30 million of each other in the 30 Years
War. No one is saying that they couldn’t do it, they just didn’t do it
as conventionally. Originally the US Army claimed 200,000 died
at Dachau and there were active gas chambers then they switched
only after revisionists nailed those lies.
Nor was it in any possible to “secretly” murder a race of six million people !
A little critical thinking is in order here and less reliance on
fabricated photos & invented atrocity tales.
Posted by blondemike on Dec 27, 2006 at 6:33 PM
The Hoax of the 20th Century by Arthur Butz, The Dissolution of East
European Jewry by Walter N. Sanning, The Drama of the European
Jews & The Real Eichmann Trial by Paul Rassinier, a Dora & Buchenwald survivor, Dissecting The Holocaust and Lectures
On The Holocaust, edited by Germar Rudolf are good books to read.
The monographs Did Six Million Really Die ? by Richard Harwood
and Not Guilty At Nuremberg by Carlos Porter are ok.
Carlo Mattogno has written several very long books on Auschwitz,
Treblinka, Belzec, et al, available from Rudolf’s Castle Hill Publishers
in Chicago, see ihr.org site too.
Posted by blondemike on Dec 27, 2006 at 6:52 PM
Even if Hitler had killed six million he’d still be a piker compared
to Mao, Stalin and the US Empire which may have killed hundreds
of millions. Can give you sources there too.
Chiang Kai-Chek killed ten million leftists in 1927 alone.
US slaughter of African slaves and Indians MIGHT be in the many
tens of millions. LBJ backed the slaughter of a million Indonesians
in 1965-68 rightist takeover and Ford-Kissinger 1/3rd (!) of East Timor
in 1975-78 genocide (200,000 out of 600,000 equivalent to 100 million
Americans here.)
Posted by blondemike on Dec 27, 2006 at 6:58 PM
.......We gonna smash their brains in…cause they ain’t got nothin’ in ‘em…...
Ooh…..the hypocritical nonsense the blinde one(BM), can produce…..It is said that most of the worlds waste is produced by the US….Now we know who produces it , that nazi bastard spawn…BM.
Mr.Clean up the Black Criminals , is ready and willing to make broad considerations for a mass murderer such as Hilter….but is unwilling to consider the pedogogical juxtaposition of crime in relation to racism….much less come forward with any reasonable solutions concerning the economical dysfunctionality of the Amerikan way of dealing with the problem…...
But he’s sympathetic to a major player in a war that slaughtered over 50 million people…..............amazingly ’ toonish of yu BM….............
The fool even has documentation…got more books on this subject then any other subject I’ve seen him post about….Now I understand the dilemma of BM’s daftness on many other subjects….HE’S GOT HIS NOSE BURIED IN THE ASS CRACK OF NAZI PROPOGANDIZED LITERATURE…
Your hypocriticalized duplicities remind the Redhorse of those men who are on the ” down low…” Meaning that they will have sex with men ( does Nina know.) ....but as long as they don’t use a condom…they don’t consider themselves homosexual….The reasoning makes no sense , but that’s how they feel…
BM , you remind the Horse of that backward way of thinkology , your denial complex is so reactionary..You just make it up as you go , using any tidbit of rhetoricalized propoganda to sell your viewpoint , it’s all a subjectivity with you BM…no broader considerations…...
I trust a skeptic such as WTH…......ain’t buying.
Posted by Redhorse on Dec 28, 2006 at 3:58 AM
Blondemike,
Posted by whattheheck on Dec 28, 2006 at 8:01 AM
Redhorse, you have shit for brains. I have NO sympathy for any of
the major players in WW2, FDR, Tojo, Hitler, Stalin, Churchill, etc.
WTH is not a skeptic, he merely bought the side which propagandized
him first. I understand perfectly. The Jesuits used to say Give us your
child for the first six years and he’s ours for life.
Blacks over here just since WW2 have probably killed many more
people than Hitler and committed many more crimes.
Ever hear of the Congo ? The cannibals there have killed five million
of their own in just the last few years. If you look at the total death toll
of Africans killing each just since 1960 they dwarf Hitler in the mass
murder department.
If you would care to give your real name and address I’d be happy to
sue for your libel of me as a homosexual. But being the coward that
you are, I know you will decline.
Frankly the N word applies to you in spades (pun intended.)
Go ply your “sociological” excuses for black crime elsewhere,
I’m sick of having to reinvent the wheel every day with you.
Posted by blondemike on Dec 28, 2006 at 9:18 AM
WTH, Nazi Germany was NOT a totalitarian state like Russia and
they didn’t have plans for everything. They were in fact the last
major WW2 combatant to adopt central planning.
“Totalitarian” was a propaganda term invented in the 30s and
applied to Mussolini but not Stalin. So much for that.
On the alleged gas chambers, death stats and doctored photos
I have already referred you to sources that totally refute the conventional
version. Why are you so scared to look at them ?
If revisionists are doctoring photos let us know.
Eyewitness testimony IS NOTORIOUSLY UNRELIABLE.
Ask any cop or DA.
YOU SAW THE PROPAGANDA THEY WANTED YOU TO SEE
AT DACHAU. I’ve been kind enough to refer you to the refutations
of same.
You show no critical thought or skepticism whatsoever on this issue.
I NEVER said nothing happened. I just took issue with three central
claims. Apparently you can read no more carefully than you can think.
As to the incredible McCarthyite premise in your last sentence that
I should leave the country so the assholes that misrun it can have
free rein, why don’t you just shove it up your stinky ass ???????????
Don’t address me anymore and I’ll refrain from addressing you.
Posted by blondemike on Dec 28, 2006 at 10:31 AM
Blondemike,
I merely asked the question, “Why do you stay here if you think the U.S. is so bad, “
Posted by whattheheck on Dec 28, 2006 at 12:10 PM
You got it. But no BS from me, only reasoned argument & specific refs.
Your comment sure read like Love it or Leave it.
Posted by blondemike on Dec 28, 2006 at 12:28 PM
blondie, don’t waste any more time with these circle jerkers like wth, shitcago cabbie, redhorse, the major, chessfrog, the other african fruitcakes here. you guys might want consider moving to honululu and leave that oaktown nonsense. the bay area has been taken over by commie nuts, it’s going downhill at least in the central cities like frisco,
oaktown, richmond, berzerkeley. honululu pd take no shit from ghetto punks like redhorse. his ass be jugged before he could say james brown’s mama. we just elected a repub guv here in hawaii. and the maoist bookstore closed down.
Posted by hawaii jack on Dec 28, 2006 at 3:12 PM
Another computer, another ISP and you’re good to go. Right, Mike? Er, Jack? Whoever you happen to be at any given momemt.
Posted by Major Major on Dec 29, 2006 at 5:53 PM
Yu know…Major Major…first…good to hear from yu again…Secondly…sense the emergence of the semi-literate Hawaii Jack….Blondie Mcdick…my bad….mike , has been quite silent…..
Now this is odd…because BM…has been very vocal , as of late…but not a peep , from the creep….sense the jack…started all his crap…....
Can I get a dap….for my average rap….?
Good day Major Major…......................
Posted by Redhorse on Dec 29, 2006 at 6:05 PM
major, four sentences, well, sort of sentences…...i’m overwhelmed !
of course, your words make no sense but what else is new ? i can’t speak for blondie but after a thorough reading of many threads here on this board i think he got weary of repeating himself a zillion times to try to reason with black savages and white untermensch like major, major.
i’m up for it, love taking apart leftist assholes and neocon kosher coonfakers. redhorse, are you on crack, crank, horse or pcb ? i’ve met some stupid ass blacks but you are the dumbest mutha i’ve met yet.
Posted by hawaii jack on Dec 29, 2006 at 7:00 PM
HaHaHa….the insults are old….please , gemme something better…ol’ dude….I still can get yu that deal on a walker…..?
Posted by Redhorse on Dec 29, 2006 at 7:46 PM
Redhorse, Frog, Cabby, David, Major, Scorp, etc. (I agreed not to address BM anymore.)
It looks like this topic has about run its course. The deterioration of discussion to mud slinging makes it look like we
Posted by whattheheck on Dec 30, 2006 at 7:32 AM
Another computer, another ISP and you’re good to go. Right, Mike? Er, Jack? Whoever you happen to be at any given moment.
Major, I have noticed the similarities between Mike and Jack too.
One doesn’t even need another computer and ISP to create a second username. I think all one needs is another email address.
If Jack and Mike are the same person I can’t say I blame him for creating a second username as everyone wants to have a friend. Having offended everyone else at this forum Mike and Jack are truly made for each other.
For what it’s worth…if you google Mike Hardesty, Z magazine….one of the links you get is this discussion on White Progressives….Now I don’t think ol’ BM , would purposefully out himself ( BM is an extremely pretentious individual )...with all the ugliness and inarticulate bigoted comments that he has made….but it is not particularly clear to the unaware , that blondemike and Mike Hardesty are the same person…...
Without an indepth study of the Hardesty articles…I will say , that it appears he is a well read , articulate individual….one would guess he is slumming or , basically , clearing the air for himself personally…knowing that comments such as the ones made by himself on this site ( ITT ), would be in total conflict with his public agendas….
Actually I do have two e-mail addresses…maybe I could become NattyRed….or RockHorse…....AfrikanRed…........Any suggestions maybe…....?
Posted by Redhorse on Dec 31, 2006 at 7:26 AM
Please ... one Redhorse is enough = )
The reason your search shows this thread as a result is because on the first page Mike made a post referencing Z Mag.
I wrote a lengthy piece for Z Magazine in April, 1990 - Posted by blondemike on Dec 19, 2006 at 5:25 PM
Happy New Year!
Yes…you have a good 2007 also….I remember him making several references to Z magazine…that he had wrote articles for Z , but when googled , initially I didn’t find much….....
This is WhisperingHorse….how about that one…..WhisperingHorse…......I like it…new for 2007….
Posted by Redhorse on Dec 31, 2006 at 11:04 AM
How about HoarseWhisperer?
I think other than a few book reviews that Mike didn’t actualy get much published. Submitted an article in 1990 but maybe not published. Or so it would seem for an online copy at least
See this link and look for Posted by Michael Hardesty on Dec 23, 2004 at 11:03 AM
Anyways, enough Sherlocking. Mike (aka. Jack) was interesting and quite a character but I won’t miss him too much. And like a bad cold we may yet see him again in some new incarnation.
Saddam was installed by the CIA in an anti-left coup in 1969 and
he was supported by carter and then reagan in his invasion of iran
in 1980, not even controversial history, every one has seen the picture
of Rumsfeld shaking hands with him in 1983 on a mission to iraq for
Reagan, in 1988 Reagan and US Army war college claimed Iran gassed the
Kurds, not Iraq, but i notice that none of you pathetic “left” cocksuckers even rebut
WTH’s CIA joke, like that’s so implausible. pathetic bunk of assholes.
Thanks, Jack, for dealing with my light work. I think I’m going to have you
finish up for me in the New Year.
The rest of the psychobabble comments by airheads like David et al are
not even worth responding to.
Now if we can just see Bush hang and the shitbag Zionist scum,
the “holohoax” fakers hang, that would be real justice.
Posted by blondemike on Dec 31, 2006 at 4:49 PM
Redhorse, I hadn’t thought of it that way but I guess I’m slumming
and I think my comments here have been articulate and coherent,
particularly judging from the off the wall I’ve received from half a
dozen fellow posters. I’m generally progressive but not Party Line
PC and the unpleasant issues I’ve brought here I have long thought
needing airing on the left and this is the only major board I know of,
left or right, that is fair to dissent. All the others censor with a vengeance.
I do admit I’ve fallen for the bait and responded with appropriate ad hominems,
something I normally disdain but you have been incredibly abusive.
I’m not complaining about, just noting it for the record.
Sorry that you take my dissent from you’re Afrocentric worldview
as evidence of racism. But that’s under your control, not mine.
By the way, I’m NOT from Virginia, apparently Hawaii Jack is but
I’m not.
Half a dozen pieces in Z, three co-authored with Nina and the others
book reviews by myself of Chomsky and Norm Solomon. One piece
for The Progressive with Nina. A couple of pieces in the East Bay Express,
a couple of pieces in the old National Guardian, a major
piece on Pacifica Radio in The Washington Post Sunday Outlook
Section and a dozen lengthy opinion pieces for The Anderson Valley
Advertiser where Cockburn writes. Only write avocationally and nothing
published since 2000. Nina and I did a private paper on First Gulf Massacre.
As usual, David, your research was inadequate.
Posted by blondemike on Jan 1, 2007 at 2:56 PM
Mike, There was nothing inadequate about my research because I got the results I was looking for. That result simply being an affirmation that you weren’t making it up. I enjoyed the pieces I did find, by the way, and thanks for sharing the rest of your publishing history.
You’re right that this is the only major board I know of, left or right, that is fair to dissent. I certainly wouldn’t consider it slumming. In These Times is very fair and a better forum for discussion with a variety of interesting people I have yet to find.
Mike, I’m glad that you’re back.
David and Whisperer…
I love it! Great imaginative way to end the year.
As one who is addicted to quotations let me add,
Posted by whattheheck on Jan 2, 2007 at 8:12 AM
jack’s back ! time for the a-holes here to dive back into their ratholes.
wth, einstein ripped off aristotle who in the poetics wrote that fiction was of more importance than history because merely described what happened while fiction described what ought to happen. yeah…....
quite a few of you here obviously confuse the two.
Posted by hawaii jack on Jan 2, 2007 at 10:54 AM
btw, redhorse, wth is NOT a skeptic in regard to US atrocities and US invented atrocities of others, he buys the whole package without a scintilla of critical thought. whoever brainwashes him first wins.
Posted by hawaii jack on Jan 2, 2007 at 12:30 PM
In classic doublespeak the “Uniter” could only have ruled by being a Divider. The War profiteers can’t make money without war, the haters coudn’t stand the light of day without spreading hate, common sense will always take a back seat to the emotion of fear and fear can only come in confusion. Confusion, of course, isn’t possible without lies and we all know hate is born in fear.
The cynical who rule do so by encouraging the tribalism that was born in the patriarchal, mysogenist beginnings of the three major religions (formed by cavemen, often hallucinating) designed to control the hoi polloi and suppressing the, much earlier, deification of female idols (by far the oldest icons discovered by archaeologists) which were truly simply symbols of a collective consciousness knowing, instinctively. that the earth itself is our mother. It is from her we rose and it is of her we depend. Modern man, successfully divorced from this common sense by the white noise of modern technology and the cloistered, hermetically sealed synthetic environments which have become more important than nature (seen as a dirty place good for only raping and reaping its resources to make more shiney, noisy gadgets). Much easier to isolate tribes from each other when the outdoors become unbearable due to global warming and pollution. Much shorter compassion in an insanely overcrowded world.
America’s violent birth, its annihilation of one race, its enslavement of another, for that matter, the lessons we should have learned from Vietnam, have never enjoyed a national dialogue and so are gaping wounds exploited by the self-serving covetous (in total contrast to the lip service to the ten commandments they claim to espouse). It is to these evil, short sighted bastard’s advantage to encourage hyphanted citizenry (Afro-American, Native-American, Jewish-American etc.) instead of the spirit of democracy which, ideally, banishes such divisions (“United we stand…..”). It’s gotten so bad that many Blacks are now as virulently racist as their couterparts (look to the sanctioned racism in our prison sytems for a pure example of divide and conquer. The “gang” situation could long ago been diffused).
Now we see the introduction of illegals from hispanic cultures brought in to stir things to new hieghts. That such an insane invasion is allowed at a time when our border security, by a party who claims to be “conservative” (and is racist) , should be air tight, only proves that as long as the “Have-nots” are fighting over crumbs, the “Haves” will continue to rule. The screeds of “liberals” and “progressives,” from the safety of suburban cul-de-sacs, shows them buying into the divisiveness of the Whig-Ro(v)es. When all else fails, squeeze a “gay” something onto the ballot, rally the tax freed representatives of orgainized religion to rail from the podium (fix some voting machines) and amuse, through the controlled media (with such worthy talents as Donald Trump or Paris Hilton, both of the “Haves” and so worthy of adoration), and sit back and pick a side in the “game” that none will win.
Posted by Angry_Since_1963 on Jan 7, 2007 at 10:58 AM
Can I Get A AAAAMMEEEENN….!!!!!!!!!!!. Amen…..for the brother….Angry_Since_1963…...
Give it up for the brother…A_S_1963….....Amen….!!!!!!!!!!
Say it again Angry_Since_1963…..say it again….
(.........APPLAUSE…APPLAUSE…APPLAUSE….as Angry_Since_1963 steps back and decends from the rostrum…......)
Posted by Redhorse on Jan 7, 2007 at 1:19 PM
Amen!
clap clap clap
Angry since 1963, eh? That’s a long time to be angry. I wasn’t even born yet.
Redhorse, David, Angry
Posted by whattheheck on Jan 8, 2007 at 12:42 PM
O’Rourke is a pro-war consevative, NOT a libertarian and yes, he has ventured opinions on subjects he knows not of, what the hell. Angry, another verbiage laden poor writer here ! Mistakes mud for depth. Practice BREVITY, you untalened nonwriters ! B R E V I T Y.
Posted by hawaii jack on Jan 8, 2007 at 2:07 PM
I see a much simpler explanation for voluptuous clay figurines. Nowadays we have the Internet.
Posted by barkless1 on Jan 8, 2007 at 2:49 PM
Hi whiny Jack,
And you might try abstinence.
Posted by whattheheck on Jan 8, 2007 at 3:09 PM
what the hell, my women won’t let me….......................
Posted by hawaii jack on Jan 8, 2007 at 3:14 PM
Barky, excellent point.
Jack, I think Whattheheck’s joke might have gone over your head.
You suggested some might practise brevity in regards to what they write whereas he is suggesting you practise abstinence.
Whattheheck, good one!
David, bad one ! My estimation of you’re IQ level just went down thirty points.
What the hell, Your Mama had a botched abortion….........look in the mirror.
Posted by hawaii jack on Jan 8, 2007 at 5:04 PM
David,
Of course you were right.
I guess to Hawaii I should have just said, “Quiet.”
For brevity, clarity trumps levity with some.
Posted by whattheheck on Jan 8, 2007 at 5:57 PM
what the hell, you should just abstain from posting at all. And if you really want to do the world a favor, abstain from breathing too.
Posted by hawaii jack on Jan 8, 2007 at 6:16 PM
Hi whiny Jack,
Whattheheck, I thought that was clever too. Ahh ... levity!
<i>David, bad one ! My estimation of you
prepHJerkoff…..damn son….you sound like some whiny ten year old…
.” abstain from breathing too….”
For a so-called free-lancer…you should be better at this…...
Redhorse is very disappointed in your performance on this ITT thread…......very disappointed indeed…..
Posted by Redhorse on Jan 8, 2007 at 6:51 PM
Additionally….what kind of man….makes insidious endorsements about his wife and their sex life , on a website with people he has never met…..?
Tacky….ol’ boy….very tacky , yu talk about your wife , like she’s just another common piece of ass…
Would guess though , that it is somewhat difficult for yu , being that yu are an extremely….“Common Ass “....... yourself.
true Hardesty….a ’ toon to the end…..
Posted by Redhorse on Jan 8, 2007 at 7:21 PM
I never mentioned my wife because I’m not married, Redhorse.
And when did I claim to be a freelancer ?
I don’t who “Hardesty” is but it seems part of your illiterate attempt
at humor.
David, you are a big disappointment, boy. So sad.
Posted by hawaii jack on Jan 9, 2007 at 11:52 AM
David, just kicked you’re stinky butt over the Caracas thread, you had posted under “Eric Blair” there yeserday. Cute but no cigar. Tore oily Ollie Kamm a new arsehole too.
Posted by hawaii jack on Jan 9, 2007 at 2:26 PM
you had posted under “Eric Blair” there yeserday. Cute but no cigar.
Jack, please clarify. Do you think I am Eric Blair? Or just mentioning the location of my post in response to Eric’s comment?
you are a big disappointment, boy. So sad.
I am sorry you are feeling so sad, Jack.
I am disappointed in you too, but it doesn’t make me sad.
I was disappointed, but very agreeably.—Macaulay
Weak effort HalfJacker….saw the same message with my name….You are quite the propagandizing monkey…...eeh….?
Posted by Redhorse on Jan 9, 2007 at 3:22 PM
Frankly, I thought maybe you were Eric Blair but are you denying it ?
How could you be disappointed in me ? I’m practically the only here that tells the truth.
Redhorse, are you trying to pull the excrement out by hand again ?
Look, little bro, this can’t be doing either your mind or your anus much good….............but at least wash those stinky hands !
Posted by hawaii jack on Jan 9, 2007 at 5:04 PM
HalfJacker…..........You’ve been stealin’ my insults sense this argument between you and the Redhorse started…....Even the ” bowel ” jokes…..
This Horse has been defining the terms of this conflict….all you do is shuffle behind…pushing your walker….
As stated in past posts….not only by myself , but others….your child-like pretentiousness is boringly droll….BM ? HJ ? MH ? who ever you are….? .
Posted by Redhorse on Jan 9, 2007 at 5:58 PM
Redhorse, I trys to be doin’ dem ebonics rap just like yo’ hineypos bro !
You shoe size bein’ the same as yo’ IQ—-13. yo’ lucky number.
WHOOOOOOOOOOOWEEEEEEEEEE…..........
Posted by hawaii jack on Jan 9, 2007 at 6:30 PM
Frankly, I thought maybe you were Eric Blair but are you denying it ?
Jack, Yes. I deny it. I did not make a post under the name of Eric Blair. Eric, you will notice by the little flag icons, is from the USA and I am from Canada. I am a computer illiterate and would not be able to make my posts appear to come from the USA even if I wanted to.
And I stopped playing with sock puppets when I was 5 years old.
How could you be disappointed in me ? I’m practically the only here that tells the truth.
I might ask the same. Exactly how did I disappoint you? Apparently by enjoying Whattheheck’s wit. You have disappointed me by not being able to do the same.
If I can offer some advice, Jack, in all sincerity, the truth you have to impart to people would be better received if it was offered with some humilty and respect rather than pride and disrespect.
....HalfJacker….again with the dimwitted redneck satire…..?
Nothing new….?
Posted by Redhorse on Jan 9, 2007 at 7:29 PM
At least qoute some Ayn Rand…......HalfJacker.
Posted by Redhorse on Jan 9, 2007 at 7:36 PM
What the hell are sock puppets ? I recall reading some babble from LB on this but mercifully forgot the specifics. Ok, thanks for the clarification on “Blair.”
Well, your selective pleading here is interesting after what I’ve put up with from Shitcago Cabbie, Major, Redhorse, etc. Let’s move on. Maybe some new voices will pop up here.
Learn how to spell “quote” horse.
Posted by hawaii jack on Jan 10, 2007 at 9:20 AM
Redhorse, David, and “Mrs. Calabash
Posted by whattheheck on Jan 10, 2007 at 9:51 AM
Jimmy Durante ! Mrs. Calabash, wherever you are ! WTH, govt creates nothing, all govt money comes from the private sector and govt jobs are created at the expense of the private sector. But don’t expect the hardcore Comsymps here like the horse, the so-called beauty, Davey and the others to get that. Chomsky told them that economic laws are a capitalist plot and we should all be shouting Viva Chavez ! Viva Fidel ! Viva Pol Pot ! Viva Uncle Joe ! Viva Mao ! Viva Ho ! Viva Allende ! Viva Sukarno ! Fill in the next Commie dirtbag of your choice. Liberalism leads to socialism leads to communism. Hence libs are usually hardcore Comsymps. Read Atlas Shrugged for the answers to ALL our problems.
LBJ said in a summer 1972 interview that the Communist Conspiracy controls FedGov, the major media, and so forth. Still true. So sad.
Posted by hawaii jack on Jan 10, 2007 at 11:34 AM
SAVE 53% OFFTHE NEWSSTAND PRICE!
Reader Comments
Please stop this self-serving anti-white racist identity politics.
Who do you think you’re kidding ? Every GOP victory since 1966
can be traced to the whole issue of black crime and sociopathology.
You don’t think the voters are falling for the pseudo-Ayn Rand economics of the Right, do you ? Excuse me but the so-called
people of color self-professed spokespersons are the ones who
are obsessed by race.
“In this narrative, identity politics is to blame for the inability of progressives to stick together, thereby making room for the rise of conservatism. Michaels says as much, barely acknowledging any other factors, including the right wing
Maybe Rinku is Redhorse in drag (just kidding but couldn’t resist).
It would be OK , with the Horse…Ms.Sen knows of where and what she speaks….My feeling is….that.yu never will get it BM…for the first time in your little pity life , yu see yourself as being ” left out “...in a BIG WAY…..Yu just can’t handle it…BM , your emotions have got yu all in a knot…..
Siskiyouz….the only reason the neo-cons play that game , is because they know it works…If you don’t respond appropiately…thats the same as saying…that these racial stigmatism are correct,,,,This is why yu need to confront the reality…not act like the problem doesn’t exit….If Bill Clinton made one statement that was right on point , but then , did nothing about it for the whole 8 years in office…It was that the issue of race was the number one problem that Amerika needed to deal with…and that by tackling that reality..that Amerika would be able to see it’s way clear of many other pressing difficulties…Now slick Willie don’t hand out to many freebies, so one would be wise to take heed…...true.
this is so black and white - you can have a movement for equality while respecting and trying to empower minorities/identities.
Look at health care in Canada - there is still racism but the fact is that all people have health care. This gives more resources to work with for those minorities, it helps them fight for there rights.
Basically economic equality should be the main goal, but we should also work to support other movements as well. As a poor, black, gay man what he wants most, he might tell you health care.
One of the reasons that the Left is so concerned with indentity politics is because capitalism is racially structured both in terms of income stratification and occupationally. Identity groups have formed the basis of economic structuring in many places throughout history. The integration of identity groups into various societies has often been the fulfillment of some economic roll or another. Usually it is cheap labor but sometimes it’s other things. This is why identity politics survives. Addressing identity is an important part of addressing social stigma and inequality.
Slick Willie wanted to solve the race problem by adding FIFTY new categories of capital crimes which he did to the 1994 Crime Bill.
Oh, I forgot, he threw in Midnight Basketball…...................
Redhorse, if idiots like you stopped your mindless black racism 99%
of the “problem” would go away.
Socialism has no better record on race issues. Cuba was always an
integrated society, under Batista as well as Castro. When Cleaver
went down preaching that black power rap Fidel put his sorry rapist
ass in the sugar cane fields.
Viva Fidel !
I am not saying to put all our eggs in the IP basket. I just realize a lot of social problems still break down statistically by race in this and many other societies.
Ok, Chicago, a reasonable point.
Sure there is a racial problem and it cuts both ways.
I doubt there are any
WTH…..Well said…..that last paragraph hit the nail on the head….Been taking those long walks…playing with the grandkids…....eah..
BM…I got yu coming and going , yu don’t know what to do now , do you….Yu sound like you’re foaming at the mouth…calm down…listen to what WTH , has to say….
99% of the problem…damn , don’t yu think that is a bit of an overstatement…
BM…calm….silence….breath…..slow down guy….....
This whole discussion is getting ridiculous as they often do.
Redhorse, I do not want to hear any more macaca coming from your mouth. Ok, 97% of the problem. Happy, now ?
Chicago, the only ridiculous notes are coming from Redhorse, he’s the
dude who posts as Scorp on the other posts.
WTH, pretty mush mental mush.
Nothing beautiful about war, it is legalized mass murder.
Damn boy I’m gonna cancel your subscription to the Weekly Standard, WTH, you come up with the damndest nonsense but I think your a nice guy at heart. Unlike Redhorse, he’d mug you in an alley in a flash, well,
he’d try, then I whip it out and he’s history. I’m talking of the 357 here though the other one is almost as big.
When know LOTS of people like Redhorse you recognize the absolute
truth of generalities and stereotypes.
getting ridiculous
No shit, eh !?
Some people might reconsider some of the fertilizer they are spreading, try thinking before they put their foot in their mouth (after all ... it’s covered in shit) and make use of the edit function.
WTH….one of the most touching moments in a situation such as yu discribed , is when former combatants meet after a conflict and become friends…neither can remember or explain why or what the war was about or why they wished to kill another human ; other than the fact that their respective Gov’ts told them too…fear of death…or a need to lookout for comrades….nobody wanted to be there….Even the gunho types…give into, surrender to the moment…They see that the so-called enemy , is just like them….has the same needs , hopes and fears…There is an old reggea tune that goes…”.The man in the military , don’t want to fight no war…..but the bankers want a war , the politicians want a war, but sargent-major Williams don’t want to fight no war…............”
Redhorse, Blondmike,
I’m sorry, but if the writer had read anything else by Walter Benn Michaels, she wouldn’t call him a progressive. I suggest, Ms. Sen, that you take a look at his previous book, Our America.
WTH, my wife and I have been victims of serious crimes by dastardly
black criminals in Oakland as I related at length to the racist Redhorse.
I’m “unhappy” because I disagree with Bush’s mass murder in Iraq ?????????????
Stop the psychobabble and move on.
Blondemike,
Sorry about your experience. We have also been victims of crime. Burglary at home and at my office neighborhood
Lancet, the esteemed UK medical journal, has documented at least 700,000 civilian deaths caused by the US invasion of Iraq in 2003.
Madeline Albright ADMITTED half a million Iraqi deaths caused by US
sanctions in spring, 1996 interview with Lesley Stahl of CBS News
for 60 minutes. There is ample UN and NGO documentation for the
figures that I gave. Just refute them or STFU little holocaust denier
WTH. Even conservatives like Buchanan now accept these figures.
The USA HAS LONG SINCE BEEN PROVEN GUILTY IN IRAQ AND
MANY OTHER PLACES SINCE WW2. GLAD TO SUPPLY REFS FOR
YOU.
You’re a rightwing weasel.
BM,
Got the runs again, I see.
If you are wiling to accept anything from MADelaine Halfbright as proof no wonder you are so confused. Please accept my condolences and best wishes for a speedy recovery.
As for your other sources of
WTH, Albright was RELUCTANTLY confirming a report by the UN and
other NGOs that Lesley Stahl brought up in an interview. This is what
lawyers call admission against interest.
Most deaths are caused by US firepower, I was kind enough to give
you responsible sources.
Your response is ad hominem attacks and an utter failure to either
present a coherent response or tell me why the widely disparate
references that I gave are not reliable.
This is why debating with a low IQ, rightwing pinhead like yourself
is a waste of time. There were no suicide bombers or Muslim extremists running around in Iraq until our invasion. Hussein was
not religious and kept a tight lid on them. Bush Asshole removed
the lid.
Blondmike,
Yes, of course, Saddam did a wonderful job. Riiigghht
———
Information is a poor substitute for thought ????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Again, you can’t respond to any refs so you’re reduced to ad hominems.
No, you’re supposed to have some reasoned semblance of a counter-argument.
The comment on Hussein is a nonsequitur since I didn’t say he was
doing a wonderful job. Bush has made a wonderful mess however and
now Al Queda is active in Iraq.
Be gone.
Wow…..I generally agree with BM….but have more respect for WTH….whats a afrikan-centered so-called racist to do…...............WTH the killing was intiated by the US..additionally one would also assume that Israeli intelligence is in on the genocide…..A civil war is just what the Bushy Boys want..now the US has no choice but to stay the freakin’ course…..MONEY…MONEY…MONEY….Who shot Abdul or who is shooting Abdul…is of little import…...................true.
Redhorse, glad we agree here. WTH has been sounding more like Scorp lately, of course, not as bad, no one is but he has been making
the stupidest rightwing pro-war noises I’ve heard in a while.
Your right of course, the ruling class here needs an enemy and if they
don’t exist we create them.
One other thing we may agree on, the anti-Arab racism in the West is really out of sight. The main form of anti-semitism now is anti-Arab racism, more so than anti-Jewish sentiment.
Mike, I am saddened to point out that you are guilty of ad hominem attacks.
For example You’re a rightwing weasel. and low IQ, rightwing pinhead like yourself ...
So I will borrow one of your favorites ... pot, scrub thyself.
And maybe I am guilty now too for pointing it out. Oh well.
But it is very nice to see Mike and Redhorse getting along.
Now play nice with Whattheheck.
Well , what is interesting is that BM can see the “ad hominen"racist attacks on Arabs….he can understand the struggle poor Venezuelans engage in with their leader, Pres. Hugo Chavez….But shows little if any understanding or acumen , for issues that confront the Afrikan Amerikan community…..No critical analysis of the larger super-structure of racism, that has become acceptable sense Ron Reagans era , the medias role in portraying persons of Afrikan hertitage as stigmatically criminalized….This is what is troubling to Redhorse ,concerning the nature and character of the BM…...But David , no ” ad hominen” or ” argumentum ad personam ” attacks from this Horse…....For now at least…...
Now WTH is a skeptic by experience…one would gather that in order to truely convince WTH…he would need to see the body count administered in person…Maybe if Ross Perot went over to Iraq and supervized the casualty reports, it would convince WTH( satirical humor , not argumentum ad personam)...WTH, the nature of war is such, that innocent people are slaughtered….sense the US illegally invaded this country ( Iraq ) , the ugly reality is that the genocide belongs on the doorstep of the Bush regime…the US Gov’t….and Amerika…..
Redhorse, David (glad you
WTH, I don’t want to keep repeating myself but the evidence of Bush’s lying and US aggression is overwhelming. I am not running for office
but there’s nothing substantive I’d change in my comments.
The US policy since WW2 has been perpetual war for perpetual peace,
see the massive 1952 book of this same title edited by Harry Elmer Barnes. And it hasn’t gotten better since then, only much worse !
Since no one claimed that all Arabs or Muslims are wonderful you’re
either flogging a dead horse or making a nonsequitur. Nor is anyone
claiming that ALL Jews are responsible for Israel’s crimes. My wife
doesn’t support Israel though way too many American Jews as well
as the Christian Zionist nuts do.
Redhorse, I agree a bit with you about the increase in racism since Reagan. Clarence Thomas dismantled the EEOC to the point where
it is ineffective in fighting job discrimination by race and age. There
is more gender favoritism to women still, not only white women.
David, an ad hominem argument is one that is used in place of any
supporting arguments, I gave supporting arguments. I did harshly characterize WTH after making the same arguments many times over
without any counterarguments from him but only psychobabble and
nonsequiturs as to how could believe a former Secretary of State when
she acknowledged a major US crime, sanctions which ultimately killed
two million Iraqis.
WTH seems to think the facts here don’t exist and that if we REALLY
knew what was going on we’d all support the great minds like Bush
and Cheney who got us into this disaster. BULL !
Under international law the insurgents are not guilty because they are
fighting a foreign occupation of their country. We are not in Iraq to do
social work, we are not in Iraq to create democracy for a 5,000 year
old civilization that doesn’t want our dubious brand of “democracy”
and cowboy capitalism. We ARE in Iraq to do Israel’s dirty work
and that even much more than the oil. If we go into Iran that will be
to do Israel’s dirty work again. Idiots on the left like Chomsky who
do not recognize AIPAC’s role are doing us a disservice. They can
get 95 Senators and 400 Representatives to sign ANY petition for
Israel at ANY time. The NRA and AARP in their wildest wet dreams
do not possess this sort of power. I believe it’s an insane combo
of holocaust guilt combined with anti-Arab racism. Although Halliburton
is making big bucks there, I do not believe it is primarily the oil companies running the show here but Israel and the neocons here.
It’s not PC to bring this up because it’s the great unmentionable.
As James Baldwin once wrote it’s like a body buried under the table
and everyone tries to ignore it but after a while no can really talk
about anything else.
Redhorse,
Yes, there is none so blind as he who will not see but I don’t think Mike is blind, maybe just a little nearsighted (satirical humor, not argumentum ad personam). As for ad hominem and insults I can safely say we are all guilty of it to some degree at one time or another.
Whattheheck,
Thank you. Glad to be back. I went on a walkabout of the web for awhile but eventually came back to these old stomping grounds. Old friends are the best. Even if we disagree.
Mike,
There are subtypes of ad hominem for which I provided a definition and source to support my assertion and without supporting evidence for your assertion that WTH is a weasel and has a low IQ I can’t help but characterize it as an insult and therefore an argumentum ad personam. I can appreciate your frustration but can’t help but see that it is a pot calling the kettle black situation.
David, it would only be the pot calling the kettle black if my arguments
had begun to approach his in both historical inaccurracy and flippant
disregard of the facts as presented combined with a total failure to
even attempt a rebuttal. If you think his responses are in way adequate
to address the points I made then the epithets I applied to him go for you too.
Left out “any” before “way” in sentence four above but I trust my point
was stil clear. My remarks are aimed at WTH and David’s pathetic
attempt to go to his defense.
If you think his responses are in way adequate to address the points I made ...
Adequate, not at all. But you still insulted him and that is an ad hominem by definition.
Look Mike, I have gone round and round on showing respect for one another in these discussions with many people, Redhorse included, and once having made my point I am more than willing to let it go and let you carve each other up with words but I fail to see how insulting weasels and making derogatory comments about someone’s IQ facilitate a meaningful and productive discussion.
I was not defending WTH from your rebuttal (I agree with your rebuttal) but from your insults.
Don’t you think it best that people stick to rebutting and forgo the insulting?
OK….David…I appreciate your point…and concerning you , I do refrain from the personal attacks…Generally though , I have no problem with expressing discontent with viewpoints that are egregious…in a manner that is argumentum ad personam…..
Now BM is like night and day…all of a sudden he sounds reasonable…this I do not trust…..
WTH…I have heard this argument from you in the past…Personally , I do not understand your skepticisms , this scenario of war profiteering is not new….Bush is just the latest , not the greatest…( personally I think his daddy is a much better hustler than the son…)Bush 41 was much smoother in the Iran / Contra deal ; Manuel Noriega…CIA drug smuggling setup….getting Saddam Hussien to hang himself by telling him to invade Kuwiat…and then kicking him out…Bush 43 is a klutz….
Mike, In the interests of peace, may I suggest we try to get along?
When I initially met you at this thread, Fear and Voting in the USA, at Posted by David in Canada on Nov 8, 2006 at 3:48 PM, we seemed to get along so well.
I think we have much in common and although we seem to disagree about a few things such as at this thread,The Godless Fundamentalist, I would like it if we could agree to disagree without resorting to taunts and insults.
“Tis the season; Peace on earth to men of good will.
I do have good will towards you so can’t we have peace too?
Merry Christmas, Mike. Best wishes for the New Year.
David…I appreciate your point…and concerning you , I do refrain from the personal attacks…
Redhorse, Thanks, I appreciate your consideration, hopefully I am not guilty of an egregious viewpoint and thereby worthy of a personal attack. I can appreciate your point as well, sometimes these discussions are very frustrating. We can’t see each other smile when we do use some satirical humour without resorting to smiley faces =) and somehow the lack of personal face to face contact tends to make all of us more susceptible to using personal attacks. A conundrum.
It’s just that I feel that sometimes the message gets lost in the viciousness of the argumentum ad personam. You remember Rabbit of course, and while he has gone on to other fields and I went with him for a time, now I have returned to this field again. I like it here. Rabbit and I went round and round sometimes too but he is always my friend. He could be especially vicious at times ... never to me but often to others and I made the same points to him. I told him his message needs to be heard but sometimes the message wasn’t even heard for all the taunts and insults that went with it. He considered my words of advice and while he remained Rabbit he was a little more tame.
Anyways, Redhorse, while I may remind you, and others, to be respectful , or at least try to be, you are free to conduct yourself as you see fit. You may fire when ready, Gridley.
Peace and good will to you, Redhorse.
Have a Merry (agnostic) Christmas and all the best in the New Year.
Whattheheck, Peace and good will to you too.
We have had our disagreements in the past and will probably have more in the future.
Nonetheless I want to wish you a Merry Christmas (agnostic too if memory serves me correctly) and all the best in the New Year.
David, again it’s only ad hominem if used in LIEU of an argument.
It’s not against the rules of logic to call an SOB an SOB.
By your daft reasoning anyone who attacks anyone is guilty of an
ad hominem but since we are debating with real people, not ghosts,
it’s legitimate to characterize them, the only issue being is the characterization accurate or not. I will defend its accuracy.
But we are not enemies and Season’s Best to you too.
RH, Nina Wax and I wrote a lengthy piece for Z Magazine in April,
1990 on Bush Sr, John Hull, North and the whole Contra drugs
for guns network. You are absolutely right in all of your comments
about Bush Sr above & Noreiga, Hussein, etc.
Season’s Best to you, Redhorse. I love Christmas and I think it
originated as a pagan holiday in Scandinavia.
Thanks Mike. I am glad we are not enemies.
As for the defintion of ad hominem, my reasoning is not daft as you so charitably characterize it. My reasoning is based on the definition I provided, see the link several posts up, which clearly states ad hominem can also involve pointing out factual but damning character flaws or actions.
So while some types of ad hominem may be used in LIEU of an argument it can also include a straight up insult, even a factual one.
And even if you don’t agree with this definition of ad hominem the fact remains that your insults to WTH were unnecessary and did not contibute in any meaningful way to the discussion except to turn it into a flame war.
As for Christmas, I agree that it is a traditional holiday of pagan origin, co-opted by Chritianity, for better or worse (one of my many heresies). Many of the pagans who converted simply wanted to bring their traditions with them to their new religion and the priests, eager for converts by any means, converted the pagan tradition as well. My Oma (grandmother) won’t have anything to do with Christmas, because of the pagan origin, but when she came to this country after WWII she was shocked to see women wearing pants and swore she would never dress like a man, yet these days, many years later, she does wear pants.
Give Christmas another millenium or two and we will hardly recognize it.
My remarks to WTH were necessary and justified. At that point I was reading him the riot act after spending way too much time trying to reason with him. I already contributed what was necessary to the debate such as it was. The unsourced definition above is convoluted.
It reads like too many authors on this board who confuse verbiage with profundity. I’ll make my own decisions as to how to react, thank you.
You might concentrate on yourself and the virtue of conciseness.
Excuse me but why I would begin to care what Christmas would be
like in a millenium ??????????
I enjoy it now and that’s all that matters.
Mike, if you felt it was necessary that’s fine. As I previously mentioned to Redhorse you are free to conduct yourself as you see fit and the same goes for you. Carry on but please consider my advice to try to be respectful as much as is possible. It’s worth the effort.
You might concentrate on yourself and the virtue of conciseness ...
Please elaborate. I am open to criticism, constructive or otherwise.
Excuse me but why I would begin to care what Christmas would be
like in a millenium ??????????
Just an observation as you mentioned it’s pagan origins from milleniums ago.
You don’t have to care. Still a little prickly, eh Mike?
Speaking of conciseness ... were 10 question marks really necessary?
(a little joke)
Christmas ain’t nothin’ but a bunch of capitalistic profiteering baa humbug…
Work hard all year long…too go into dept till June of the next year( according to current spending documentation )...then lie to the poor, trusting little ones….telling them that your love and devotion take second seeding to some benevolently mythical fat , drunk ol’white dude….The first great lie…setting the young ones up for a life of confusing priorities, religious daftness , and economical slavery….
The one time of the year when working folks could send a message to the ruling class ( one could at least teach the young generation not to fall for the same foolishness )...Ah , the Wall Street propoganda…Yu know why they call it Wall street….because back in the day , during the slave trade….the finance district in New York was of course , the place where afrikan slaves were bought and sold….traded….many of the well to do patrons, found objection to the sight of all this human cargo being unloaded from the gallows of slaveships….So the solution was to built a wall….Wall Street
Blood in my eye…...................................................................................
Mike, Redhorse, JonB, David, Cabdriver,
I repeat: My argument generally is that too many people are assuming too much too often.
Mike says I don
They were ONLY over here because WE have been over there for generations propping up Israel’s dispossession of millions of Palestinian Arabs and backing rightwing Arab dictatorships in Kuwait,
Saudi Arabia and most of the Arab World including the murderous Shah
of Iran for a long time.
The terrorist training camps only came into existence in response to
US & Israeli State Terror against the Palestinians and other Arabs.
The USA is the leading terrorist state in the world, see Chomsky’s
Rogue State and William Blum’s Rogue States.
We have no influence over the Sudanese govt to stop Darfur but we do
over Israel which we fund 100% to stop its aggression and we could
have a settlement there today if the US & Israel wanted it. They don’t
and the policy is to drive out as many Palestinians out as possible.
Removing Saddam in 1991 was an insane policy in an unjustified attempt to keep Kuwait, which is part of Iraq, in the hands of a corrupt monarchy.
The casualties would have been far worse in 1991 because by 2003
Iraq was greatly weakened by the sanctions and the deaths of millions
from same. Powell & Bush Sr very wisely ignored Far Right jackasses
like you. His STUPID son didn’t, hence the present mess.
THE US IS NOT THE WORLD’S POLICEMAN AND WE DO NOT HAVE ANY OBLIGATION WHATSOEVER TO AID ANY OR ALL OPPRESSED
GROUPS. USUALLY THE USA IS SUPPORTING OPPRESSIVE STATES
FROM ZAIRE TO ISRAEL TO SINGAPORE TO PAKISTAN TO GUATEMALA TO INDONESIA TO SOUTH KOREA TO EL SALVADOR TO
YOU NAME IT.
The Bosnia action was not positive as that “moderate” Islamic state
has ethnically cleansed every Serb and Croat it could AND gave passports to Bin Laden & all top Al Queda aides. And this goes double
for the Clinton-Blair ethnic cleansing of the Serbs in Kosovo in response
to a “genocide” that wasn’t happening.
Your insane idea of MORE troops is exactly what is not needed.
Maybe you can work for the lunatic Manchurian Johnboy McCain.
David, look at your many posts to see what I mean when I write more
conciseness would be nice on your part.
WTH, enough of your crap to start the morning.
Blondie,
That still doesn’t mean I won’t rebut your nonsense if it’s egregious.
I am not in a personal feud with you, only concerned about the issues here.
And your response is still the same old failure to rebut my ” same old
shit.”
BM, You’d make one hell of a diplomat.
“I am not in a personal feud with you, only concerned about the issues here.”
Oh?
“Far Right jackasses like you.”
“Your insane idea…”
Just the most recent insults. Sounds rather personal to me. Don’t you realize you have insulted nearly everyone who posts on this site?
It is probably just as well that we never meet face to face.
conciseness would be nice
Mike, Thanks for your advice. I will take it under consideration.
Clear, concise and (hopefully) correct are qualities I value and strive for.
And I always try to remember that conciseness and clarity, or lack of them, in no way take away from the correctness, or lack of it, of an argument.
Ok, David. And it’s not just you either.
Where is Canuckistan ?
WTH, I’m up for that face to face and you’re up for a serious beating I hear.
In case anyone has read down through all the bickering, back to Benn Michaels, or rather, diversity vs everything—maybe I am too forgiving, but I read his essay as mainly an urge to shift the question of inequality back a bit in the direction of economic inequality, not necessarily to discount the matter of race altogether, but maybe I’m putting my own filter over it. Michaels says “A world where some of us don’t have enough money is a world where the differences between us present a problem: the need to get rid of inequality or to justify it… We like to talk about the differences we can appreciate [race], and we don’t like to talk about the ones we can’t [financial resources].” He’s generalizing, but even if I don’t agree with how black-and-white (forgive me) he paints it to prove a point, he nevertheless has a point. It is ethically and pragmatically ridiculous, not to mention political suicide these days, to say that diversity is no longer an issue. But why isn’t there more of an issue made of poverty and all the unfairness of privilege? Here in Illinois, why has a citizenry and government accepted the practice of lavishing luxuries on schools of the northern and western suburbs while inner-city and downstate schools are literally falling apart? If the problem is disparity in property tax revenue, does this really justify perpetuation of the class divide? Come on. Poverty is a human issue, and is a problem with solutions, even if they require moving beyond “appreciation.”
On a vaguely related subject: do colored progressives “get” how wrong it is to charge clearly innocent white men with the rape of a black (exotic dancer) women? The Duke case is a prime example of how race politics can lead to the horrible abuse of the legal system. It is amazing that the case has not been dropped, the DA fired and the boys issued a full apology by the state (and the exotic dancer should be charged with filing false reports as well).
The OJ trail also was a clear case of race politics gone amuck. . .
Or is this just “:pay back” for real and imagined wrongs?
Pathetic.
Your right, Wolf. But colored progressives and their self-hating white
apologists have dog doo for brains.
beatricity,
I cringe at the calls for
“Unity” of what ? Making sense of your bumbling wordsalads is no
easy matter, What The Hell.
Blondie asks,
WTH…..everything yu said was right on point…I guess the juxtaposition of WTH vs a BM , has given I better perspective on your personal ideology…
Yu are looking at the problem from a sound base…but what beatricity is saying is very complete also…that diversity is the issue…points to the enormous amount of talented and intelligent young people that will still be excluded , because they, ( the childs/students particular learning perspective does not fit the established testing goals.)...which of course…( have been shown to be unreliable in truthfully measuring the real abilities of students ), diversity speaks to quality….equality speaks to opportunity…we need both…just like a loving home enviroment…points to the parents being not only able to support the childs physical needs…but also emotional….The child….needs both , a strong family , needs both…and strong communities need both….
What I see , as policy in Amerika…in general , doesn’t even come close…under any perspective yu want the use…Equality or Quality are in short supply…especially…especially….went dealing with the subject of public education…( interesting insight…a child can be systematically discriminated against in the public educational system , but can find relative equality and quality in the military…but thats another discussion…).....
Remember if these two variables equality and quality were not rare commodities…there would be no juxtaposition against the two…the argument aways being basically , that…quantity is an acceptable substitute for equality…and that quality was in direct relation to a euro-centric values system…this perspective in and of itself…can be good..if yu fit into that paradigm….but if yu don’t…then it can become problematic….The perspective should be one based in balance…clearly looking at what does work..a curriculm that is inclusive…that presents information in a manner were student and instructor can interact….thats how real learning takes place….It’s hard work and requires some amount of patience…but it ain’t rocket science…Although the end result being that maybe the numbers of more socially conciuos physics scholars..( instead of military recruits )...of diverse heritages…goes up over the next few decades…...Not a bad trade off when yu look at the investment value…..
Wolf…I wrote a response to your post that did not go thru…but in brief…first..I do not know who these “colored progressives” are…but they did not charge those Duke students with anything…the white DA charged them with the crime of rape, this guy wanted to get reelected so he played the race card game the way white politicians have for decades…Only difference is that he for some reason only he can tell yu , thought he could win against affluent white folks…who had the resourses to fight the false charge….Obviously the women involved was emotionally or economically motivated, a competent investigation would have proved helpful…she does have servere credibility problems…
Secondly…how or what does any of that have to do with ” colored progressive “....? I don’t get your logic…...You’re not trying to get your little bit of mileage out of this unfortunate situation are yu , that would be ethically duplicitous , wouldn’t it….hypocritical don’t yu think….? .Possibly appearing to be.. classified as a bigotedly disingenuous attempt to place blame for this whole ugly episode on the black community…....
Third , why is it so obvious now with the affluent white kids being victimized by the criminal justice system.. when it was , has been happening , and still is happening to poor black , hispanic…and native youth for decades…...? Come now Wolf….are yu that naive,delusionally possesed by daftness….?....
Fourth…what the Duke rape case does have to do with ” colored progressive “..is that it points out the facts of racial / socio-economic and judicial disparities in Amerika , that…...ARE ONLY CHAMPIONED BY INDIVIDUALS IN THE BLACK PROGRESSIVE RANKS….When it happens to those peoples children( black folks ), it’s not an issue….but now they have come for your kid ( affluent ,white male ), now… it’s all of a sudden an issue, and further than that….. the doing of Black Progressives…Please Wolf….can I get some of what yu are smoking…...
What next , are yu implying that the only way for white progressives to understand the world outside your little bubble is that a group of young white males , has to leave a strip club after a bachelor party..and become the gunned down victims of some overly zealot undercover police officers ; would this also be viewed as the responsiblity of those ” colored progressives”...Or the operations of psychopathic so-called law enforcement officers….madmen…who have avioded responsiblity for their actions….based off of the institutionalized license to kill , that is championed for so long on these Amerkan shores…...?
Don’t see much in the news about that unfortunate turn of events in NYC…..hmmm….?
If these boys were poor and black or hispanic…and the ” false ” victim was a white woman…( which we all know is the stigmatic reality behind all the emotions involved )...these kids would be in jail..falsely convicted , and fake little white progressive men like the BM would not have said squat..( except to praise the dubious abilities and questionable tactics of law enforcement )......I bet yu wouldn’t have said a thing either…wolf… If I had brought the subject up…yu would have mostly tryed to marginalized the point…....Spare us the sanctimonious act…..
As always BM’s monkeyed response is noted….....
Redhorse,
You make some good observations here which never occurred to me.
WTH and RH, between you two if electricity was brains you would light up a one watt bulb. There is plenty of “unity” under totalitarian states
and your model is the extreme collectivist-statist-socialist-fascist-communist army, I understand perfectly where you are coming from,
WTH. We just don’t agree.
RH, if those kids had been black they NEVER would have been charged
on so utterly flimsy a noncase. The DA has been trying to curry favor
with ignorant local blacks because this is an election year.
See the lewrockwell.com website and two dozen columns by William
Anderson on this disgusting pandering to endemic black racism by
a piece of shit DA who knew that lousy whore’s word wasn’t worth a
good goddamn to begin with, even the other black gal with her contradicted her from the get-go.
WTH, equality is a total myth and white Jews like my wife who spent
a month in a Mississipi jail in 1965 for doing civil rights work have come
to regret it, unless the whole Black Left Nationalist Self-Pitying Anti-White MO FO culture is totally repudiated it will be money down a rathole employing baboons like Redhorse SOLELY because they
are black and incompetent. A white male can’t get a city job in most
urban areas because of set aside quotas for incompetent blacks and
incompetent women, black women being the worst because they fill
BOTH quotas.
RH, you can just Suck My Duke, punk.
As always BM’s monkeyed response is noted…....
WTH….the main aspect that is most interesting or troubling , is that there is an overabudance of money and resources going to the military that could be more wisely spent in the education arena….20 billion off the top of any military spending and we got all new schools in 10 years…another 10 billion for Head Start Programs / curriculm reform….400 billion dollars a year for the military….thats not including the so-called war on terror….this is unacceptable…..
It is unfortunate that yu are unable to regain your sanity after our last exchange….BM. Apparently I ( my words ), have brought yu such mindless dis-ease that all yu are able to do is rant incoherently….Aah….such are the wages of the poor of heart and mind…
BM…your delusions of some kind of euro-aryan progressive nationalism is a pipe dream….The Amerika yu know is dead…the youth don’t want your ol’ racial bigotry…this is why yu do not understand shit…because yu are looking at the world like it was 19 fuckin’ 60….yu ol’ buzzard…Yu are an antique to most young folks( at 60+ ), and so are your viewpoints..
The future wants….DEMANDS… information that is relative to tomorrow , not yesterdays slop….Your ideology…..? ? whatever it is…..is simply a sad and extremely inadequate representation of your own personal demons….until yu surrender and give that negative energy over or back to the Universe…yu will continue to suffer ignorance / poverty of mind and soul / and anger…....
Its your choice…
Redhorse,
Actually we and all other western nations have made extreme military budget cuts (under both Bush 41 and Clinton) as a percentage of GDP. The biggest transfer of money has been to the wealthy as a result of globalization scams and tax cuts.
All of life begins as risk (obvious in nature) and a game of survival. Everything which exists (and even that which does not) has an effect on everything else. I just read the Amazon reviews on a book recommended by Frog,
Michael P. Hardesty (aka blondemike) Biography
Brackets [] indicate end note citations.
Mr. Hardesty is a person of strong opinions, but his relationships with fact and logic are weak or non-existent. Sorting through his thoughts (?), such as they are, is made infinitely more difficult by his inconsistency, reflecting his internal conflicts and scatter-brained approach to his chosen subject matter, which includes principally foreign and domestic politics.
Mr. Hardesty has a wife/companion/housemate/whatever named Nina, and four cats. They all live unhappily in Oakland in a mixed race neighborhood, for which they provide most of the mixing. Their domestic situation reflects Mr. Hardesty’s combative writing style, as they are involved in legal actions against their neighbors and their veterinarian, and arguments with the Oakland Police Department.
At various times, Mr. Hardesty has claimed to have a Ph.D. and a moderately high IQ; both claims are certainly spurious. Mr. Hardesty’s footprints are all over the Internet, with no indication of academic accomplishment, much less intelligence. But do not confuse our Mr. Michael P. Hardesty with Michael P. Hardesty, the NOAA scientist, or Michael P. Hardesty, the artist, or Michael P. Hardesty, the business executive, and possibly not Michael P. Hardesty, the felon convicted of cocaine and weapons possession. But it is interesting that our Michael P. Hardesty talks of his .357 Magnum, and the felonious Michael P. Hardesty had a .357 Magnum. As a convicted felon, the felonious Michael P. Hardesty would be forbidden to own a weapon, so that excludes our Michael P. Hardesty. Right?
Regardless of any felonicity, our friend Mike’s inconsistency is well documented. As a left-liberal, Mike has certain assumed attitudes, but his belief system is intermittently shaken by reality:
Maybe that explains the Mag.
Mike is also inconsistent in his political writings. If you have been following his semi-literate arguments, Mike is a cultic follower of Noam Chomsky. Sometimes.
But opposites attract, and likes repel. Mike “refus(es) to acknowledge any errors at all”, and he proclaims “genocide” by capitalism where none exists. No wonder Mike broke with Chomsky, but you couldn’t tell it from his writings, because Mike has consistently argued on ITT that Chomsky is so great.
Mike’s writing style may be characterized as haphazard, obscene, and scatalogical, but if it were not scatalogic, it would have no logic at all. He is big into labels: dumb, stupid, moron, liar, bastard. But he is opposed to ad hominem attacks. Go figure. His signature spelling/grammar error is his use of “your” when he means the homophonic contraction “you’re”. MIKE IS ALSO BIG ON ALL CAPS AND LOTS OF EXCLAMATION POINTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AND QUESTION MARKS???????????
Besides ITT, Mike has had running arguments in many Internet venues, which make for interesting reading up to a point, when the story line collapses into sameness and boredom. Mike has been banned from several sites. [2], [3]
Mike is big on making idle and not-so-idle threats from behind the (former) security of his keyboard, including advocating use of the Mag and decapitation. Mike wants me to give him my location so he can come kick my butt. But he did not give his location, I had to go find it. It is my firm belief that Mike is of short stature, probably not more than 5’-6”. This is based on his constant and irrelevant references to size, a classic example of the projection defense mechanism; Mike calls me a little man, because he is insecure about his height. But I had to knock the heels off my combat boots to get under the height restrictions to get into airborne school. You still want to kick butt, Michael P.?
[1] http://search.eastbayexpress.com/Issues/2001-07-25/news/letters.html
[2] http://oliverkamm.typepad.com/blog/2004/11/chomskys_outlet.html
[3] Blog and website citations:
http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/discuss/1774/
http://www.oaklandnews.com/archives/000061.html
http://www.tomgpalmer.com/archives/015527.php
http://www.berkeleydailyplanet.com/article.cfm?archiveDate=12-28-01&storyID=9248
http://www.zmag.org/ZMag/articles/hardesty.htm
http://www.berkeleydaily.org/opinion_article.cfm?archiveDate=12-28-01&storyID=9248
http://www.sfweekly.com/Issues/1998-04-15/news/letters.html
scorp,
Thanks for the BM data. Actually, I was beginning to feel a bit guilty for yanking his chain and foe some of my insults. At least I can say that anyone who likes animals can
Scorp, as usual you are full of shit. Just for the record I’m 6’1.
I’m glad your Fed employers have helped you in your “research.”
Sure, I’ll kick your stinky butt, punk. I’ve whipped you in every
intellectual exchange we’ve had and I correctly called the shots
on your govt involvement several weeks back on the other ITT thread
because I could see how testy you became on the subject of Paul
Brenner and his reign in Occupied Iraq. To date you have not made
one COHERENT argument, much less a refutation of any sort.
You have specialized in ad hominem attacks in lieu of serious
argument.
The record of five centuries of genocide under capitalism is rather
well documented by scholars ranging from Harry Elmer Barnes to
Howard Zinn to Eugene Genovese to most historians. It’s not even
controversial. Anywhere from ten to one hundred million Blacks were
killed in the very capitalistic slave trade, anywhere from a few million
to 10 to 35 million “Indians” killed north of the Rio Grande by the
capitalistic empires of Britain & France and many more killed south
of the Rio Grande by the capitalistic empire of the Spanairds.
Several hundred thousand Filipinos killed by the US in the “liberation”
of the Phillipines in 1898. Ergo for Cuba, Hawaii and Puerto Rico at
the same time. Hundreds of thousands killed by capitalist US proxy
terror states in El Salvador, Guatemala, Brazil, Chile, Haiti, the Dominican
Republic, Argentina, Colombia, Peru, Panama, Nicaragua etc. just during
the course of the 20th century.
Actually hundreds of thousands of Nicaraguans alone were
killed by the US fascist contra thugs. See Carleton Beals
and J. Fred Rippy just on capitalism’s huge death toll in Latin
America. Chomsky is good here too but only one of many.
On Chomsky, just like anyone else, I laud him when he’s right
and criticize him when he’s wrong. I know that’s kind of complex
for your tiny mind, “Scorp.”
See William Blum’s 1983 book CIA for the estimates of six million
killed by the US Capitalist foreign policy from 1945-1980. And that
figure is sadly out of date today.
Your is as valid as you’re. When one is exclusively focussing on an
individual item, then you’re is appropriate, when a more general or
collective sense is meant, then your is appropriate. Coming from
someone like yourself who can’t write a coherent sentence, who
can’t spell the simplest words and whose sentence structure is often
unintelligible, the grammar lessons are a hoot.
I’m glad my caps the other day so got under your skin, “Scorp” or
whatever your real identity is. The reason I did it big time on that
particular occasion was that I was tired of repeating the same points
over ad infinitum. I thought maybe you would catch it if it were bolded
and apparently you did because you have never stopped whining
ever since.
I’ve never been convicted of a felony or any other crime. Your statement
here is per se libelous and if you would reveal your name & address,
I’d be happy to sue you. The rest of your comments are the usual
venomous garbage but the felony statement is a pure libel.
Philosophically I have been completely consistent in my left libertarian
views. Politically I’ve changed my mind when the facts warranted it
or I discovered a better interpretation of events.
Scorp, you are a coward, a lowlife, a libeler and an agent provocateur.
The only site I was ever banned from was the Oakland News, run by
a local Demo Party hack named Jeannette Sherwin. She regularly
banned people she disagreed with including most members of
the Oakland City Council. Shortly after she banned me she was struck
dead. Good riddance was the almost universal reaction here.
Redhorse, as usual your drug and drink induced words make no
sense.
WTH, you better get your facts from other than a govt financed agent
provocateur like “Scorp.”
Again, “Scorp” I challenge you to reveal your real identity.
Coming from a schizo….I’ll take your comments as proof of the fact , that yu are a rambling idiot…lost in his own anal-retentive drama…..
It’s funny how close Scorps outline of your personality…is so close to what Redhorse imaged…even down to the fact that your neighbors find yu obnoxious….Why am I not surprized…....................’ toon..
Redhorse, Scorp is a rightwing white trash version of you.
It’s no more complicated than that. Scorp is not only a
government agent provocateur but a prime example of
what Senator Robert Byrd, D, W. VA, called
a “whigger.” See if you can figure that one out.
The only neighbors that don’t like us are two criminals, we have
great relations with all the rest including several black families.
They share our distaste for black criminals like yourself.
Nina is the captain of our neighborhood crime alert group.
Please spare us the pseudo-psych ramblings. We stopped
our heavy giving to the United Negro College Fund when they
started turning out too many illiterates like yourself.
Scorp, WTH and you MIGHT light up a one watt bulb if
electricity were brains on your best days.
What be yo’ ghetto, little hinepos ? Philly ? Camden ?
So, will the real Mr. Hardesty please stand up? Are things so bad in your neighborhood that it has caused you “to revise our formerly glib left-liberal assumptions on race, welfare, civil rights, affirmative action, gun control, identity politics, rent control, ad nauseam (sic)” or do you really “have great relations with all the rest including several black families”? Or do you just say any damn-fool thing that pops into your head at the moment? And where does the Mag fit into all this?
No….BM…..Scorp is not a friend of the Redhorse…..Based off of the Political Compass scores yu are more likely to see eye to eye with the Scorp , at least on matters of economics..Didn’t yu score…somewhere in the fascist range…....? .chucky..
The last quote doesn’t contradict the earlier quote. It’s a difference of
several years and getting to know our noncriminal neighbors.
When we were the first whites we did run into some serious problems
from just a few people but the others stood by and ignored it. As we
have gotten established over the last decade relationships have now
improved. Many blacks are quite conservative on noncivil rights issues
such as welfare, affirmative action, rent control, gun control, school
busing and we strongly share their views. My wife comes from a leftist
background and I originally from a libertarian background.
We still have a couple of black criminal neighbors but we try to
give them wide berth. And several blacks now share our negative
attitude towards the whole lumpen mo fo black anti-culture.
Redhorse, I still don’t know the meaning of my score in that test.
Scorp & Redhorse,
Life is funny. A couple days a ago I made an appeal on this thread for more unity
Blondie,
Calm down. This is just a discussion venue, not a recruiting forum for a world takerover. For a while how about trying to just state your own position, read some other ones, kick back, relax and give different ideas some thought.
Life is too short for so much anger. (And it can make it still shorter.)
I’d like to know what the Jews have done to M. Hardesty to make him so hostile to them. Certainly Jews have nothing to do with the maladies of the distinguished M. Hardesty!!
Chicago, I never intended on bringing up the subject of holocaust
revisionism but was only replying to what appeared to be an implication
by Scorp that Crystal Night was the start of the so-called holocaust.
Scorp later denied that he meant to say that. Okay.
I pointed out that even the establishment “scholars” here date it from
summer 1942-summer 1944. You then burst in with a crazed attack
on me and I decided to respond. You do not speak for the “Jewish
people.” You would not have the slightest knowledge of my interactions
with many Jews, so why bother to comment ? My wife is Jewish and
that’s all you need to know.
WTH, your right that I am taking this much too seriously. I just found
Scorp’s “research” quite creepy. And it was part of a pattern to discredit
the message by attacking the messenger.
Scorp, mag is strictly for self-protection. I don’t hunt, am not a
vegetarian nut but it’s just not my bag. I support the NRA. One
of the few pressure groups worth a damn.
That’s the point ol’ man….nobody here can understand and or figure out your message….BM….Not WTH , nor Cabbie…..certianly not Redhorse….even your ol’ friend David…came by…and was friendly…but yu cursed him too….So…at great risk too further boredom….What the hell is your message….? Because trashing black folks will only get yu bonus points with the Klan or Micheal Richards…...YU HAVE NO MESSAGE….
Scorp, I have to add that you would have been banned
from Jeannette Sherwin’s online only Oakland News.
She was a hardcore Democratic Party hack and was furious
with Nina & I for voting for Nader in 2000. I tried to patiently
explain to her why even from a progressive viewpoint the
Dems were a fraud. I wasn’t endorsing the GOP, just bashing
the Dems and I did support the Gray Davis recall. I voted for
Tom McClintock, an intelligent conservative Republican because
I agreed with him on economic issues but not on abortion, etc.
Arnie’s a dunce but better than Davis. She had a fit. Her ex was
Carl Pope, head of the Sierra club whom I went to high school
with back near DC. They had adopted a black orphan and he
turned out to be the kid from hell, has been in state prison for
many years. Jeannette ending up HATING blacks because she
lived near door to a huge public housing project in north Oakland.
There were shootings and knifings galore, public defecation and
urination, drug dealing, public sex, tire slashings, etc., all the common
stuff in too many neighborhoods. But she was so politically correct
that she still voted against proposals by black statesman Ward Connerly
to end affirmative action ! I labelled the Demo replacement
candidate, Bustamante, as Bustabeaner because he was a worthless
halfassed professional Latino. She thought that was “racist.”
Even though she regularly used the N word. He went down in flames
and even some top Demo Party officials backed The Terminator instead.
Last I heard Jeannette was in a very warm, southerly place.
Horse, you can’t even spell MICHAEL !
Damn, but your a stupid SOB. I never attacked
ALL black folks but only the black communist trash
that thinks like you.
David and I are quite friendly.
I don’t fit a simpleminded left-right pattern and it drives
all the ideologues here crazy !
At heart I’m blacker than you, horse, in the good affirmative
sense of black being the strongest color. Have no use for
these faux, fake high yeller negroes like you.
Chicago, I must confess that my wife does have a very low
opinion of most Jewish males and after meeting her father
& brother I could understand why. As a good progressive I try
to urge her not to generalize. Unfortunately, Chicago, people
like you CREATE anti-semitism. You are your own worst enemy.
I’m willing to take you on as a therapy patient but my rates are
very high.
Scorp, I never received my Ph.D’s from Eureka College.
That strictly is cow country.
WTH…......yu do have an eye for the ironic…..I’ll make sure I’m sitting when I laugh about that one….I did try to briefly make that point to BM….but yu know how that ended…..the guys an enigma….
So now Redhorse , WTH….and Scorp are bedfellows in conspiracies…..I would guess that stranger scenarios have appeared….
WTH,
You seem slightly conservative but well informed, fair, and reasonable. Do you have any comments on BM’s violent commitment to Holocaust Revisionism? It’s really quite frightening!! I never thought I’d see this stuff on the ITT blog even from the worst trolls. What are your thoughts?
Redhorse, if you think that only Klansmen are fed of up
of massive Afro anti-social behavior, you are one deluded
fool. Most of the GOP victories since 1966 have been due to
Middle American backlash against massive black criminality.
31% of Oaktown but 78% of the crimes. 8% of Frisco but at
least 60% of the crime.
Time for a reality check, bro. In 1991 Duke won 60% of the
Euro American vote running for Governor of Louisiana.
He’s a hell of a handsome dude since his plastic surgery too.
At the time Nina and I cheered his defeat but now….....................
Chicago, don’t pester WTH with your holohoax obsessions and
where do you get off applying the adjective “violent” to me ?
Someone who disagrees with you is per se anti-Jewish and violent ??????????????????
Troll definition———someone who beats your ass in a debate.
Redhorse, are you capable of writing a coherent, completed
sentence ?
You have proven NONE of your baseless and violently hateful assertions. Of Course HR is bigotry. To negate the reality of the worst planned genocide ever in order to hold it up rather as an example of the pernicious and deceitful nature of the victims who scored the entire myth at the expense of all humanity is to you not a bigoted act? You are truely nuts. Since you are the ones accusing the Jews and others of lying than the burden of proof is on you to show the story is false. Wiesenthal and other scholars have proven the opposite to the satisfaction of most people including many of the best professional historians.
Why does Nina disdain Jewish males? They are amoung the most successful and loving mates and most women like them.
.....” Redhorse . if you think that only Klansmen are [ fed of up of ]massive Afro-anti-social behavior….” BM…..what the HELL are yu trying to say….? When you’re mad , yu have a real problem with writing coherent statements…........true.
The nations move to the right has nothing to do with anything but for the fact that this nation is full of a bunch of superstitious rednecks such as yourself…Typical to blame your ignorance on others…so childish of you….ol ’ boy..
I never claimed to have proven anything. I referred you to the sources
so you can check it out yourself. You have never proven anything either.
I reiterated only the main conclusions and referred you to the research.
No, I have no burden of proof as I am doubting the positive assertions
made. And if you go to look up the refutations of Wiesenthal, Wiesel,
etc., you’ll see exactly where their critics have honed in.
Why are you so frightened to check them out ?
On the Jewish male issue just take a long look in the mirror and you’ll
see what Nina was referring to. Your last statement is unbelievably comical.
It was no accident that all the founders of modern feminism
are Jewish females. What and who do you think they were rebelling
against ?
RH, I very clearly wrote down what I intended to say in plain english.
I realize that is not your native tongue but why should that be my
problem ?
BM says….” RH , I very clearly wrote down what I intended to say in plain english…..”
WRONG AGAIN…..yu impudent fool , please then , explain the phrase….( fed of up of )...? .That is not clear english…the edit function….fool. just use the edit function…..HaHaHaHaHa…..................’ toon.
Redhorse,
RH, if I put an extra “of” in that sentence, I apologize. But receiving
grammar lessons from you is analogous to a lecture on sobriety
from the town drunk !
The meaning of my sentence is clear to all but the hopelessly
retarded.
Cabby,
I have a hard time with the carelessness with which the terms left/right, liberal/conservative get slapped on people, issues, motives. I think of myself as a conservative in the sense that I want to preserve the best of the America where I grew up and extend it to the whole country. (Other countries having it is OK, but it
WTH, you simply need to honestly look at the revisionist works which
debunk the myth of gassings or mass killings at Dachau, even the
Jewish Agency admitted no death camps on German soil. They
claim it all took place in Poland but that has been debunked bigtime.
I can recommend several sites and specific print books. There were
plenty of US-UK-French crimes during the war and after the war against
German civilians, I doubt Ike ever showed those tours.
The Nazis never exterminated millions of civilians in a centrally planned
manner primarily using gas chambers as was commonly claimed.
The Germans certainly committed their share of atrocities and were
as capable of killing as anyone else, it just never happened as described.
That 1-2 million European Jews died of all causes in
Europe during WW 2 is a tragedy but the lying, unconscionable
exaggeration & exploitation of this needs to end now.
I agree with your general take on the inadequacy of the left/right
paradigm to explain things.
Anyway if people want to challenge their own prejudices here I’ve
given the proper references. If not, nothing to discuss.
Blondemike,
I
WTH, it’s not JUST the headcount although after religiously batting
that around for 60 years the establishment can’t wiggle out scot free
if the number is vastly inflated.
Three main elements are in contention here.
1) There was no centrally planned conspiracy to exterminate
Europe’s Jews.
2) There were no gas chambers, which heretofore been presented
as the main engine of extermination.
3) The six million figure is grossly inflated.
These are the revisionist contentions and this is what people in two
dozen countries go to prison for asserting.
Other issues such as the now totally discredited lampshades
and bars of soap of human skin are peripheral points as well
as the likely possibility that Anne Frank’s “Diary’ was probably
written after WW2 by her Dad or someone he hired.
Photos can be doctored and even Jewish sources do not claim
Dachau as an extermination camp anymore. There is book available
from ihr.org titled Innocent At Dachau, you might read it.
99% of the stuff about Mengele and human torture is bullshit.
The Nazis in fact executed wardens of camps that allowed prisoner
abuse, they wanted the Jews for slave labor and they were concerned
about them as a Fifth Column while they were fighting a three front war.
None of the orthodox establishment Jewish or Gentile historians claim
that any even small portion of what they describe as the holocaust
(since 1970) died from experiments or torture.
You have only read one side of the established propaganda.
To come to an intelligent conclusion you have to read where the
orthodox version is wrong.
Up to the “holocaust” the standard and revisionist versions do not
greatly disagree, they all acknowledge the Nazi persecution of the
Jews. They make differ over claims of many killings on Crystal
Night (not true) but both sides agree that till late 1941 the Nazi goal
was emigration and not extermination of the Jews of Europe.
I can only refer to sources so you check your ingrained views here.
If you are too scared to have your assumptions or premises questioned
that’s your business. I’m not trying to convert anyone.
They had crematoriums for the disposal of the dead, most were NOT
worked to death and Frankl’s account has been called into question.
They were not burned alive in “ovens” only after death cremated which
was widely accepted in Europe and the practical way to cope with so
many deaths caused BY DISEASE DUE TO ALLIED BOMBING AND
BLOCKADE OF SUPPLIES. This doesn’t absolve the Nazis, the
Germans probably killed 30 million of each other in the 30 Years
War. No one is saying that they couldn’t do it, they just didn’t do it
as conventionally. Originally the US Army claimed 200,000 died
at Dachau and there were active gas chambers then they switched
only after revisionists nailed those lies.
Nor was it in any possible to “secretly” murder a race of six million people !
A little critical thinking is in order here and less reliance on
fabricated photos & invented atrocity tales.
The Hoax of the 20th Century by Arthur Butz, The Dissolution of East
European Jewry by Walter N. Sanning, The Drama of the European
Jews & The Real Eichmann Trial by Paul Rassinier, a Dora & Buchenwald survivor, Dissecting The Holocaust and Lectures
On The Holocaust, edited by Germar Rudolf are good books to read.
The monographs Did Six Million Really Die ? by Richard Harwood
and Not Guilty At Nuremberg by Carlos Porter are ok.
Carlo Mattogno has written several very long books on Auschwitz,
Treblinka, Belzec, et al, available from Rudolf’s Castle Hill Publishers
in Chicago, see ihr.org site too.
Even if Hitler had killed six million he’d still be a piker compared
to Mao, Stalin and the US Empire which may have killed hundreds
of millions. Can give you sources there too.
Chiang Kai-Chek killed ten million leftists in 1927 alone.
US slaughter of African slaves and Indians MIGHT be in the many
tens of millions. LBJ backed the slaughter of a million Indonesians
in 1965-68 rightist takeover and Ford-Kissinger 1/3rd (!) of East Timor
in 1975-78 genocide (200,000 out of 600,000 equivalent to 100 million
Americans here.)
.......We gonna smash their brains in…cause they ain’t got nothin’ in ‘em…...
Ooh…..the hypocritical nonsense the blinde one(BM), can produce…..It is said that most of the worlds waste is produced by the US….Now we know who produces it , that nazi bastard spawn…BM.
Mr.Clean up the Black Criminals , is ready and willing to make broad considerations for a mass murderer such as Hilter….but is unwilling to consider the pedogogical juxtaposition of crime in relation to racism….much less come forward with any reasonable solutions concerning the economical dysfunctionality of the Amerikan way of dealing with the problem…...
But he’s sympathetic to a major player in a war that slaughtered over 50 million people…..............amazingly ’ toonish of yu BM….............
The fool even has documentation…got more books on this subject then any other subject I’ve seen him post about….Now I understand the dilemma of BM’s daftness on many other subjects….HE’S GOT HIS NOSE BURIED IN THE ASS CRACK OF NAZI PROPOGANDIZED LITERATURE…
Your hypocriticalized duplicities remind the Redhorse of those men who are on the ” down low…” Meaning that they will have sex with men ( does Nina know.) ....but as long as they don’t use a condom…they don’t consider themselves homosexual….The reasoning makes no sense , but that’s how they feel…
BM , you remind the Horse of that backward way of thinkology , your denial complex is so reactionary..You just make it up as you go , using any tidbit of rhetoricalized propoganda to sell your viewpoint , it’s all a subjectivity with you BM…no broader considerations…...
I trust a skeptic such as WTH…......ain’t buying.
Blondemike,
Redhorse, you have shit for brains. I have NO sympathy for any of
the major players in WW2, FDR, Tojo, Hitler, Stalin, Churchill, etc.
WTH is not a skeptic, he merely bought the side which propagandized
him first. I understand perfectly. The Jesuits used to say Give us your
child for the first six years and he’s ours for life.
Blacks over here just since WW2 have probably killed many more
people than Hitler and committed many more crimes.
Ever hear of the Congo ? The cannibals there have killed five million
of their own in just the last few years. If you look at the total death toll
of Africans killing each just since 1960 they dwarf Hitler in the mass
murder department.
If you would care to give your real name and address I’d be happy to
sue for your libel of me as a homosexual. But being the coward that
you are, I know you will decline.
Frankly the N word applies to you in spades (pun intended.)
Go ply your “sociological” excuses for black crime elsewhere,
I’m sick of having to reinvent the wheel every day with you.
WTH, Nazi Germany was NOT a totalitarian state like Russia and
they didn’t have plans for everything. They were in fact the last
major WW2 combatant to adopt central planning.
“Totalitarian” was a propaganda term invented in the 30s and
applied to Mussolini but not Stalin. So much for that.
On the alleged gas chambers, death stats and doctored photos
I have already referred you to sources that totally refute the conventional
version. Why are you so scared to look at them ?
If revisionists are doctoring photos let us know.
Eyewitness testimony IS NOTORIOUSLY UNRELIABLE.
Ask any cop or DA.
YOU SAW THE PROPAGANDA THEY WANTED YOU TO SEE
AT DACHAU. I’ve been kind enough to refer you to the refutations
of same.
You show no critical thought or skepticism whatsoever on this issue.
I NEVER said nothing happened. I just took issue with three central
claims. Apparently you can read no more carefully than you can think.
As to the incredible McCarthyite premise in your last sentence that
I should leave the country so the assholes that misrun it can have
free rein, why don’t you just shove it up your stinky ass ???????????
Don’t address me anymore and I’ll refrain from addressing you.
Blondemike,
I merely asked the question, “Why do you stay here if you think the U.S. is so bad, “
You got it. But no BS from me, only reasoned argument & specific refs.
Your comment sure read like Love it or Leave it.
blondie, don’t waste any more time with these circle jerkers like wth, shitcago cabbie, redhorse, the major, chessfrog, the other african fruitcakes here. you guys might want consider moving to honululu and leave that oaktown nonsense. the bay area has been taken over by commie nuts, it’s going downhill at least in the central cities like frisco,
oaktown, richmond, berzerkeley. honululu pd take no shit from ghetto punks like redhorse. his ass be jugged before he could say james brown’s mama. we just elected a repub guv here in hawaii. and the maoist bookstore closed down.
Another computer, another ISP and you’re good to go. Right, Mike? Er, Jack? Whoever you happen to be at any given momemt.
Yu know…Major Major…first…good to hear from yu again…Secondly…sense the emergence of the semi-literate Hawaii Jack….Blondie Mcdick…my bad….mike , has been quite silent…..
Now this is odd…because BM…has been very vocal , as of late…but not a peep , from the creep….sense the jack…started all his crap…....
Can I get a dap….for my average rap….?
Good day Major Major…......................
major, four sentences, well, sort of sentences…...i’m overwhelmed !
of course, your words make no sense but what else is new ? i can’t speak for blondie but after a thorough reading of many threads here on this board i think he got weary of repeating himself a zillion times to try to reason with black savages and white untermensch like major, major.
i’m up for it, love taking apart leftist assholes and neocon kosher coonfakers. redhorse, are you on crack, crank, horse or pcb ? i’ve met some stupid ass blacks but you are the dumbest mutha i’ve met yet.
HaHaHa….the insults are old….please , gemme something better…ol’ dude….I still can get yu that deal on a walker…..?
Redhorse, Frog, Cabby, David, Major, Scorp, etc. (I agreed not to address BM anymore.)
It looks like this topic has about run its course. The deterioration of discussion to mud slinging makes it look like we
Another computer, another ISP and you’re good to go. Right, Mike? Er, Jack? Whoever you happen to be at any given moment.
Major, I have noticed the similarities between Mike and Jack too.
One doesn’t even need another computer and ISP to create a second username. I think all one needs is another email address.
If Jack and Mike are the same person I can’t say I blame him for creating a second username as everyone wants to have a friend. Having offended everyone else at this forum Mike and Jack are truly made for each other.
For what it’s worth…if you google Mike Hardesty, Z magazine….one of the links you get is this discussion on White Progressives….Now I don’t think ol’ BM , would purposefully out himself ( BM is an extremely pretentious individual )...with all the ugliness and inarticulate bigoted comments that he has made….but it is not particularly clear to the unaware , that blondemike and Mike Hardesty are the same person…...
Without an indepth study of the Hardesty articles…I will say , that it appears he is a well read , articulate individual….one would guess he is slumming or , basically , clearing the air for himself personally…knowing that comments such as the ones made by himself on this site ( ITT ), would be in total conflict with his public agendas….
Actually I do have two e-mail addresses…maybe I could become NattyRed….or RockHorse…....AfrikanRed…........Any suggestions maybe…....?
Please ... one Redhorse is enough = )
The reason your search shows this thread as a result is because on the first page Mike made a post referencing Z Mag.
I wrote a lengthy piece for Z Magazine in April, 1990 - Posted by blondemike on Dec 19, 2006 at 5:25 PM
Happy New Year!
Yes…you have a good 2007 also….I remember him making several references to Z magazine…that he had wrote articles for Z , but when googled , initially I didn’t find much….....
This is WhisperingHorse….how about that one…..WhisperingHorse…......I like it…new for 2007….
How about HoarseWhisperer?
I think other than a few book reviews that Mike didn’t actualy get much published. Submitted an article in 1990 but maybe not published. Or so it would seem for an online copy at least
See this link and look for Posted by Michael Hardesty on Dec 23, 2004 at 11:03 AM
Anyways, enough Sherlocking. Mike (aka. Jack) was interesting and quite a character but I won’t miss him too much. And like a bad cold we may yet see him again in some new incarnation.
Saddam was installed by the CIA in an anti-left coup in 1969 and
he was supported by carter and then reagan in his invasion of iran
in 1980, not even controversial history, every one has seen the picture
of Rumsfeld shaking hands with him in 1983 on a mission to iraq for
Reagan, in 1988 Reagan and US Army war college claimed Iran gassed the
Kurds, not Iraq, but i notice that none of you pathetic “left” cocksuckers even rebut
WTH’s CIA joke, like that’s so implausible. pathetic bunk of assholes.
Thanks, Jack, for dealing with my light work. I think I’m going to have you
finish up for me in the New Year.
The rest of the psychobabble comments by airheads like David et al are
not even worth responding to.
Now if we can just see Bush hang and the shitbag Zionist scum,
the “holohoax” fakers hang, that would be real justice.
Redhorse, I hadn’t thought of it that way but I guess I’m slumming
and I think my comments here have been articulate and coherent,
particularly judging from the off the wall I’ve received from half a
dozen fellow posters. I’m generally progressive but not Party Line
PC and the unpleasant issues I’ve brought here I have long thought
needing airing on the left and this is the only major board I know of,
left or right, that is fair to dissent. All the others censor with a vengeance.
I do admit I’ve fallen for the bait and responded with appropriate ad hominems,
something I normally disdain but you have been incredibly abusive.
I’m not complaining about, just noting it for the record.
Sorry that you take my dissent from you’re Afrocentric worldview
as evidence of racism. But that’s under your control, not mine.
By the way, I’m NOT from Virginia, apparently Hawaii Jack is but
I’m not.
Half a dozen pieces in Z, three co-authored with Nina and the others
book reviews by myself of Chomsky and Norm Solomon. One piece
for The Progressive with Nina. A couple of pieces in the East Bay Express,
a couple of pieces in the old National Guardian, a major
piece on Pacifica Radio in The Washington Post Sunday Outlook
Section and a dozen lengthy opinion pieces for The Anderson Valley
Advertiser where Cockburn writes. Only write avocationally and nothing
published since 2000. Nina and I did a private paper on First Gulf Massacre.
As usual, David, your research was inadequate.
Mike, There was nothing inadequate about my research because I got the results I was looking for. That result simply being an affirmation that you weren’t making it up. I enjoyed the pieces I did find, by the way, and thanks for sharing the rest of your publishing history.
You’re right that this is the only major board I know of, left or right, that is fair to dissent. I certainly wouldn’t consider it slumming. In These Times is very fair and a better forum for discussion with a variety of interesting people I have yet to find.
Mike, I’m glad that you’re back.
David and Whisperer…
I love it! Great imaginative way to end the year.
As one who is addicted to quotations let me add,
jack’s back ! time for the a-holes here to dive back into their ratholes.
wth, einstein ripped off aristotle who in the poetics wrote that fiction was of more importance than history because merely described what happened while fiction described what ought to happen. yeah…....
quite a few of you here obviously confuse the two.
btw, redhorse, wth is NOT a skeptic in regard to US atrocities and US invented atrocities of others, he buys the whole package without a scintilla of critical thought. whoever brainwashes him first wins.
In classic doublespeak the “Uniter” could only have ruled by being a Divider. The War profiteers can’t make money without war, the haters coudn’t stand the light of day without spreading hate, common sense will always take a back seat to the emotion of fear and fear can only come in confusion. Confusion, of course, isn’t possible without lies and we all know hate is born in fear.
The cynical who rule do so by encouraging the tribalism that was born in the patriarchal, mysogenist beginnings of the three major religions (formed by cavemen, often hallucinating) designed to control the hoi polloi and suppressing the, much earlier, deification of female idols (by far the oldest icons discovered by archaeologists) which were truly simply symbols of a collective consciousness knowing, instinctively. that the earth itself is our mother. It is from her we rose and it is of her we depend. Modern man, successfully divorced from this common sense by the white noise of modern technology and the cloistered, hermetically sealed synthetic environments which have become more important than nature (seen as a dirty place good for only raping and reaping its resources to make more shiney, noisy gadgets). Much easier to isolate tribes from each other when the outdoors become unbearable due to global warming and pollution. Much shorter compassion in an insanely overcrowded world.
America’s violent birth, its annihilation of one race, its enslavement of another, for that matter, the lessons we should have learned from Vietnam, have never enjoyed a national dialogue and so are gaping wounds exploited by the self-serving covetous (in total contrast to the lip service to the ten commandments they claim to espouse). It is to these evil, short sighted bastard’s advantage to encourage hyphanted citizenry (Afro-American, Native-American, Jewish-American etc.) instead of the spirit of democracy which, ideally, banishes such divisions (“United we stand…..”). It’s gotten so bad that many Blacks are now as virulently racist as their couterparts (look to the sanctioned racism in our prison sytems for a pure example of divide and conquer. The “gang” situation could long ago been diffused).
Now we see the introduction of illegals from hispanic cultures brought in to stir things to new hieghts. That such an insane invasion is allowed at a time when our border security, by a party who claims to be “conservative” (and is racist) , should be air tight, only proves that as long as the “Have-nots” are fighting over crumbs, the “Haves” will continue to rule. The screeds of “liberals” and “progressives,” from the safety of suburban cul-de-sacs, shows them buying into the divisiveness of the Whig-Ro(v)es. When all else fails, squeeze a “gay” something onto the ballot, rally the tax freed representatives of orgainized religion to rail from the podium (fix some voting machines) and amuse, through the controlled media (with such worthy talents as Donald Trump or Paris Hilton, both of the “Haves” and so worthy of adoration), and sit back and pick a side in the “game” that none will win.
Can I Get A AAAAMMEEEENN….!!!!!!!!!!!. Amen…..for the brother….Angry_Since_1963…...
Give it up for the brother…A_S_1963….....Amen….!!!!!!!!!!
Say it again Angry_Since_1963…..say it again….
(.........APPLAUSE…APPLAUSE…APPLAUSE….as Angry_Since_1963 steps back and decends from the rostrum…......)
Amen!
clap clap clap
Angry since 1963, eh? That’s a long time to be angry. I wasn’t even born yet.
Redhorse, David, Angry
O’Rourke is a pro-war consevative, NOT a libertarian and yes, he has ventured opinions on subjects he knows not of, what the hell. Angry, another verbiage laden poor writer here ! Mistakes mud for depth. Practice BREVITY, you untalened nonwriters ! B R E V I T Y.
I see a much simpler explanation for voluptuous clay figurines. Nowadays we have the Internet.
Hi whiny Jack,
And you might try abstinence.
what the hell, my women won’t let me….......................
Barky, excellent point.
Jack, I think Whattheheck’s joke might have gone over your head.
You suggested some might practise brevity in regards to what they write whereas he is suggesting you practise abstinence.
Whattheheck, good one!
David, bad one ! My estimation of you’re IQ level just went down thirty points.
What the hell, Your Mama had a botched abortion….........look in the mirror.
David,
Of course you were right.
I guess to Hawaii I should have just said, “Quiet.”
For brevity, clarity trumps levity with some.
what the hell, you should just abstain from posting at all. And if you really want to do the world a favor, abstain from breathing too.
Hi whiny Jack,
Whattheheck, I thought that was clever too. Ahh ... levity!
<i>David, bad one ! My estimation of you
prepHJerkoff…..damn son….you sound like some whiny ten year old…
.” abstain from breathing too….”
For a so-called free-lancer…you should be better at this…...
Redhorse is very disappointed in your performance on this ITT thread…......very disappointed indeed…..
Additionally….what kind of man….makes insidious endorsements about his wife and their sex life , on a website with people he has never met…..?
Tacky….ol’ boy….very tacky , yu talk about your wife , like she’s just another common piece of ass…
Would guess though , that it is somewhat difficult for yu , being that yu are an extremely….“Common Ass “....... yourself.
true Hardesty….a ’ toon to the end…..
I never mentioned my wife because I’m not married, Redhorse.
And when did I claim to be a freelancer ?
I don’t who “Hardesty” is but it seems part of your illiterate attempt
at humor.
David, you are a big disappointment, boy. So sad.
David, just kicked you’re stinky butt over the Caracas thread, you had posted under “Eric Blair” there yeserday. Cute but no cigar. Tore oily Ollie Kamm a new arsehole too.
you had posted under “Eric Blair” there yeserday. Cute but no cigar.
Jack, please clarify. Do you think I am Eric Blair? Or just mentioning the location of my post in response to Eric’s comment?
you are a big disappointment, boy. So sad.
I am sorry you are feeling so sad, Jack.
I am disappointed in you too, but it doesn’t make me sad.
Weak effort HalfJacker….saw the same message with my name….You are quite the propagandizing monkey…...eeh….?
Frankly, I thought maybe you were Eric Blair but are you denying it ?
How could you be disappointed in me ? I’m practically the only here that tells the truth.
Redhorse, are you trying to pull the excrement out by hand again ?
Look, little bro, this can’t be doing either your mind or your anus much good….............but at least wash those stinky hands !
HalfJacker…..........You’ve been stealin’ my insults sense this argument between you and the Redhorse started…....Even the ” bowel ” jokes…..
This Horse has been defining the terms of this conflict….all you do is shuffle behind…pushing your walker….
As stated in past posts….not only by myself , but others….your child-like pretentiousness is boringly droll….BM ? HJ ? MH ? who ever you are….? .
Redhorse, I trys to be doin’ dem ebonics rap just like yo’ hineypos bro !
You shoe size bein’ the same as yo’ IQ—-13. yo’ lucky number.
WHOOOOOOOOOOOWEEEEEEEEEE…..........
Frankly, I thought maybe you were Eric Blair but are you denying it ?
Jack, Yes. I deny it. I did not make a post under the name of Eric Blair. Eric, you will notice by the little flag icons, is from the USA and I am from Canada. I am a computer illiterate and would not be able to make my posts appear to come from the USA even if I wanted to.
And I stopped playing with sock puppets when I was 5 years old.
How could you be disappointed in me ? I’m practically the only here that tells the truth.
I might ask the same. Exactly how did I disappoint you? Apparently by enjoying Whattheheck’s wit. You have disappointed me by not being able to do the same.
If I can offer some advice, Jack, in all sincerity, the truth you have to impart to people would be better received if it was offered with some humilty and respect rather than pride and disrespect.
....HalfJacker….again with the dimwitted redneck satire…..?
Nothing new….?
At least qoute some Ayn Rand…......HalfJacker.
What the hell are sock puppets ? I recall reading some babble from LB on this but mercifully forgot the specifics. Ok, thanks for the clarification on “Blair.”
Well, your selective pleading here is interesting after what I’ve put up with from Shitcago Cabbie, Major, Redhorse, etc. Let’s move on. Maybe some new voices will pop up here.
Learn how to spell “quote” horse.
Redhorse, David, and “Mrs. Calabash
Jimmy Durante ! Mrs. Calabash, wherever you are ! WTH, govt creates nothing, all govt money comes from the private sector and govt jobs are created at the expense of the private sector. But don’t expect the hardcore Comsymps here like the horse, the so-called beauty, Davey and the others to get that. Chomsky told them that economic laws are a capitalist plot and we should all be shouting Viva Chavez ! Viva Fidel ! Viva Pol Pot ! Viva Uncle Joe ! Viva Mao ! Viva Ho ! Viva Allende ! Viva Sukarno ! Fill in the next Commie dirtbag of your choice. Liberalism leads to socialism leads to communism. Hence libs are usually hardcore Comsymps. Read Atlas Shrugged for the answers to ALL our problems.
LBJ said in a summer 1972 interview that the Communist Conspiracy controls FedGov, the major media, and so forth. Still true. So sad.
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