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Thanks again, Bush and you neoconmen.
Posted by hawaii jack on Jan 9, 2007 at 12:16 PM
About three years ago I started wondering if life had been better under Saddam.
Michael Moore’s film was no very great shakes, but one image stayed with me—those kids playing football in the street.
No helicopters, no gunfire, no bombs.
Now just about everyone is coming around to accepting it was better under Saddam.
What a waste.
Posted by frog on Jan 9, 2007 at 6:55 PM
Great point, frog, you’re right.
Posted by hawaii jack on Jan 10, 2007 at 9:52 AM
“Now just about everyone is coming around to accepting it was better under Saddam.”
Except for the hundreds of thousands he murdered (using WMD - e.g., his gassing of the civilian population). And the ones he shredded in plastic shredders. Oh and the ones he ordered raped. . .
Maybe much or Iraq is in bad shape now, but it was in bad shape before the invasion. The northern Kurdish region continues to be in pretty good shape (but to be fair, it was before the war, due to US protection).
Posted by wolf on Jan 11, 2007 at 8:32 AM
He never “murdered” hundreds of thousands using poison gas, he was in a WAR with Iran and both sides tossed in everything but the kitchen sink. When that ONE Kurd village was gassed in 87 or 88 Reagan Admin claimed it was IRAN that did it which a subsequent US Army War College Report confirmed. So, Wolf, yor neoconmen sources mislead you again. Iraq is in much WORSE shape four years after Bush’s invasion based totally on lies. You guys really need to get that rightwing hate talk radio out of your heads and your butts. Spare us the phony shredding and rape stories a la Tom Lantos mythical stolen baby incubators in Gulf Masscre One by the First Bush War Criminal.
Posted by hawaii jack on Jan 11, 2007 at 10:23 AM
US had no business protecting the Kurds or anyone else, Turkey has been the Kurds greatest enemy much more so than Iraq but every state in the region has opposed a Kurdish state. The welfare of the Kurds came at the expense of the much greater suffering of evryone else in Iraq.
Posted by hawaii jack on Jan 11, 2007 at 10:26 AM
Maybe much or Iraq is in bad shape now, but it was in bad shape before the invasion.
At one time, before the 1991 Gulf War and the sanctions that followed, Iraq was in good shape. Iraq had a reasonable standard of living. Healthcare, schools and infrastucture were the envy of many of Iraq’s neighbours in the region.
After the 1991 conflict and the sanctions imposed it all went down the toilet. And now, after the recent invasion and occupation, the standards in Iraq are at their worst.
Excellent points, David.
Posted by hawaii jack on Jan 11, 2007 at 11:20 AM
I do agree that the problems in the middle east are caused by the west. The root cause of the problem is that we have provided primitive cultures with modern weapons, which makes a much sense as providing 9mm handguns to teenage boys. We did this because we are addicted to their oil. That is the mistake, to fix it is to first understand it.
David - remind me again why the aggressive US attacked the peaceful Iraqi’s in ‘91. Jack, while the killing of Kurds used to be as acceptable as killing of blacks is now in Darfur, i am against it and glad we helped them. I only wish we would/could help in Sudan.
The real question that remains is what to do when crazies (think Iran or North Korea) attempt to get WMD. Doing nothing now will eventually lead to the question of what to do when they use them. Unfortunately i think the answer will be that the (mostly innocent) people will pay dearly for the actions of their leaders (see post ‘91 Iraq as a example that is by no means even close to a worst case example).
Modern weapons and middle age civilizations do not mix well. We need to end our buying of oil from the medieval societies as soon as possible, so they can go back to “natural” way of life.
Posted by wolf on Jan 11, 2007 at 12:48 PM
I never said ANY killings were acceptable, what I DID say was that as the world’s greatest muder machine we are NOT the ones to go around preventing murder anyplace. Five million Congolese have killed each other in the last few years, Israel has dispossessed millions of Palestinians and killed hundreds of thousands since 1948 and we totally subsidize that AND THERE WE COULD STOP IT IF WE WANTED TO. But Darfur is just a chic lib feel good cause that takes no political courage to venture an opinion on. Remember our prevoius disastrous effort in Somalia, NO THANKS. Africans can stop killing each other for a change and expecting whitey whom they blame for everything to bail them out. Saddam invaded Kuwait over oil fields that Kuwait, which IS part of Iraq, to protest oil stolen by slant drilling. If Bush 1 and Thatcher hadn’t rushed to war it
could have been resolved instead of 200,000 Iraqis being killed so a brutal family Klan could be restored to power in Kuwait. Iran and North Korea are not crazy in the least, they want to secure nukes PRECISELY BECAUSE WE WON’T INVADE THEM IF THEY HAVE THEM. BUSH ONLY INVADED IRAQ BECAUSE HE KNEW THEY DIDN’T HAVE WMD’S. Israel has 400-500 nukes originally stolen for them by traitors here and in France. As far as the West being “civilized” give us a break ! We USED nukes with no justification in 1945 against a defeated enemy that had been trying to surrender for nine months. see Harry Elmer Barnes’ Assault On A Beaten Foe in the May 10, 1958 National Review (yes, THAT National Review.) See Atomic Diplomacy by Gar Alperowitz for the most learned book on the subject. The real crazies, like US, Russia, Israel, UK, France, Pakistan, India, already have nukes. Iraq post 1991 has PAID FOR THE SINS OF OUR LEADERS, both Bushes and Clinton to the tune of two million genocidal deaths. You argue on the very Lieberman-Bush premises that have been totally discredited. Had no idea that you were this obtuse.
Posted by hawaii jack on Jan 11, 2007 at 1:05 PM
Wolf, I see that Jack already reminded you <i> why the aggressive US attacked the peaceful Iraqi
Thanks, David. Wolf is brainbrother of Scorp’s and baby heard’s so don’t expect him to get it.
Posted by hawaii jack on Jan 11, 2007 at 3:39 PM
Wolf
plastic shredders may be true, but the proof is strangely lacking.
The Kuweit incubator babies story has been definitely traced back to an American PR firm.
You display your deep ignorance about that part of the world by describing them as “primitive cultures” .
They are a mix of ancient tribal societies and large numbers of people who are as ‘modern’ as anyone in the US or Europe.
A doctor or engineer may also have a close family relationship with his or her tribe, but obviously has advanced beyond it .
By repeating simplistic propaganda bullshit, you make a fool of yourself.
Posted by frog on Jan 11, 2007 at 6:38 PM
Hey Frog, how goes it? Long time no see but good to see you again.
Thanks for reminding me of Wolf’s statement ...
... we have provided primitive cultures with modern weapons ...
Wolf, feeling culturally superior, eh?
I would say that any culture that still uses violence as a means of problem solving is woefully primitive. But is good to see you admit that it is we that provided some of these weapons and cause more problems than we fix.
As for the oil ... America buys lots of oil from closer to home than you might think. Although some comes from Saudi Arabia and other middle eastern countries plenty of US oil imports come from Canada, Mexico and Venezuela too.
America’s invasion and occupation of Iraq is nothing less than a (war) crime. If there was more justice in this world then Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and a handful of other warmongers would have been hanging next to Saddam in the gallows.
I hold them all directly responsible for every Iraqi who died unnecessarily, in a hospital or otherwise.
Hi Dave,
I saw you got the furry message of love, too .
And ‘no’, i have not yet bought my electrically assisted bicycle to replace the ute for short trips, but that will happen !
Living in the US, Canuckistan, Europistan, we all live within cultures that still have primitive sides to them.
When was the last nigga publicly lynched by Wolfy and friends ?
Not that long ago at all. Well, maybe he didn’t do it , poisonally. Perhaps his loving father.
Nice people, some of those yanks.
Of course every dead EYE-RAQI is a good one, so no distinction need be made between women, kids and adult males.
And those thousands who die from lack of medical care are just more bonus points.
GWB calls it ‘demahcracy, or VICTORY ‘,.
For the moment they are still so shocked and horrified, there is no counterattack on mainland bushland.
IF I were one of them, it would be my life’s work to get back at the bushfamily .
Not blind terror, just them and primarily HIM .
As the mafia say—revenge is a dish better eaten cold… so GWB might never ever sleep well, ever again ..
except he may well have no imagination, at all….
Posted by frog on Jan 12, 2007 at 10:09 PM
Who cares about this war criminal’s psychology ? The point is that he needs impeachment and if the Democrats could remove their lips from the AIPAC pecker maybe we could impeach him.
Posted by blondemike on Jan 16, 2007 at 1:59 PM
No chance Mike.
They’re going to go down with him, not on him.
US and UK and the other stooges are technically liable under various bits of the Geneva and Hague Conventions for not looking after the people in Occupied Territory.
Posted by frog on Jan 22, 2007 at 4:57 PM
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Reader Comments
Thanks again, Bush and you neoconmen.
About three years ago I started wondering if life had been better under Saddam.
Michael Moore’s film was no very great shakes, but one image stayed with me—those kids playing football in the street.
No helicopters, no gunfire, no bombs.
Now just about everyone is coming around to accepting it was better under Saddam.
What a waste.
Great point, frog, you’re right.
“Now just about everyone is coming around to accepting it was better under Saddam.”
Except for the hundreds of thousands he murdered (using WMD - e.g., his gassing of the civilian population). And the ones he shredded in plastic shredders. Oh and the ones he ordered raped. . .
Maybe much or Iraq is in bad shape now, but it was in bad shape before the invasion. The northern Kurdish region continues to be in pretty good shape (but to be fair, it was before the war, due to US protection).
He never “murdered” hundreds of thousands using poison gas, he was in a WAR with Iran and both sides tossed in everything but the kitchen sink. When that ONE Kurd village was gassed in 87 or 88 Reagan Admin claimed it was IRAN that did it which a subsequent US Army War College Report confirmed. So, Wolf, yor neoconmen sources mislead you again. Iraq is in much WORSE shape four years after Bush’s invasion based totally on lies. You guys really need to get that rightwing hate talk radio out of your heads and your butts. Spare us the phony shredding and rape stories a la Tom Lantos mythical stolen baby incubators in Gulf Masscre One by the First Bush War Criminal.
US had no business protecting the Kurds or anyone else, Turkey has been the Kurds greatest enemy much more so than Iraq but every state in the region has opposed a Kurdish state. The welfare of the Kurds came at the expense of the much greater suffering of evryone else in Iraq.
Maybe much or Iraq is in bad shape now, but it was in bad shape before the invasion.
At one time, before the 1991 Gulf War and the sanctions that followed, Iraq was in good shape. Iraq had a reasonable standard of living. Healthcare, schools and infrastucture were the envy of many of Iraq’s neighbours in the region.
After the 1991 conflict and the sanctions imposed it all went down the toilet. And now, after the recent invasion and occupation, the standards in Iraq are at their worst.
Excellent points, David.
I do agree that the problems in the middle east are caused by the west. The root cause of the problem is that we have provided primitive cultures with modern weapons, which makes a much sense as providing 9mm handguns to teenage boys. We did this because we are addicted to their oil. That is the mistake, to fix it is to first understand it.
David - remind me again why the aggressive US attacked the peaceful Iraqi’s in ‘91. Jack, while the killing of Kurds used to be as acceptable as killing of blacks is now in Darfur, i am against it and glad we helped them. I only wish we would/could help in Sudan.
The real question that remains is what to do when crazies (think Iran or North Korea) attempt to get WMD. Doing nothing now will eventually lead to the question of what to do when they use them. Unfortunately i think the answer will be that the (mostly innocent) people will pay dearly for the actions of their leaders (see post ‘91 Iraq as a example that is by no means even close to a worst case example).
Modern weapons and middle age civilizations do not mix well. We need to end our buying of oil from the medieval societies as soon as possible, so they can go back to “natural” way of life.
I never said ANY killings were acceptable, what I DID say was that as the world’s greatest muder machine we are NOT the ones to go around preventing murder anyplace. Five million Congolese have killed each other in the last few years, Israel has dispossessed millions of Palestinians and killed hundreds of thousands since 1948 and we totally subsidize that AND THERE WE COULD STOP IT IF WE WANTED TO. But Darfur is just a chic lib feel good cause that takes no political courage to venture an opinion on. Remember our prevoius disastrous effort in Somalia, NO THANKS. Africans can stop killing each other for a change and expecting whitey whom they blame for everything to bail them out. Saddam invaded Kuwait over oil fields that Kuwait, which IS part of Iraq, to protest oil stolen by slant drilling. If Bush 1 and Thatcher hadn’t rushed to war it
could have been resolved instead of 200,000 Iraqis being killed so a brutal family Klan could be restored to power in Kuwait. Iran and North Korea are not crazy in the least, they want to secure nukes PRECISELY BECAUSE WE WON’T INVADE THEM IF THEY HAVE THEM. BUSH ONLY INVADED IRAQ BECAUSE HE KNEW THEY DIDN’T HAVE WMD’S. Israel has 400-500 nukes originally stolen for them by traitors here and in France. As far as the West being “civilized” give us a break ! We USED nukes with no justification in 1945 against a defeated enemy that had been trying to surrender for nine months. see Harry Elmer Barnes’ Assault On A Beaten Foe in the May 10, 1958 National Review (yes, THAT National Review.) See Atomic Diplomacy by Gar Alperowitz for the most learned book on the subject. The real crazies, like US, Russia, Israel, UK, France, Pakistan, India, already have nukes. Iraq post 1991 has PAID FOR THE SINS OF OUR LEADERS, both Bushes and Clinton to the tune of two million genocidal deaths. You argue on the very Lieberman-Bush premises that have been totally discredited. Had no idea that you were this obtuse.
Wolf, I see that Jack already reminded you <i> why the aggressive US attacked the peaceful Iraqi
Thanks, David. Wolf is brainbrother of Scorp’s and baby heard’s so don’t expect him to get it.
Wolf
plastic shredders may be true, but the proof is strangely lacking.
The Kuweit incubator babies story has been definitely traced back to an American PR firm.
You display your deep ignorance about that part of the world by describing them as “primitive cultures” .
They are a mix of ancient tribal societies and large numbers of people who are as ‘modern’ as anyone in the US or Europe.
A doctor or engineer may also have a close family relationship with his or her tribe, but obviously has advanced beyond it .
By repeating simplistic propaganda bullshit, you make a fool of yourself.
Hey Frog, how goes it? Long time no see but good to see you again.
Thanks for reminding me of Wolf’s statement ...
... we have provided primitive cultures with modern weapons ...
Wolf, feeling culturally superior, eh?
I would say that any culture that still uses violence as a means of problem solving is woefully primitive. But is good to see you admit that it is we that provided some of these weapons and cause more problems than we fix.
As for the oil ... America buys lots of oil from closer to home than you might think. Although some comes from Saudi Arabia and other middle eastern countries plenty of US oil imports come from Canada, Mexico and Venezuela too.
America’s invasion and occupation of Iraq is nothing less than a (war) crime. If there was more justice in this world then Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and a handful of other warmongers would have been hanging next to Saddam in the gallows.
I hold them all directly responsible for every Iraqi who died unnecessarily, in a hospital or otherwise.
Hi Dave,
I saw you got the furry message of love, too .
And ‘no’, i have not yet bought my electrically assisted bicycle to replace the ute for short trips, but that will happen !
Living in the US, Canuckistan, Europistan, we all live within cultures that still have primitive sides to them.
When was the last nigga publicly lynched by Wolfy and friends ?
Not that long ago at all. Well, maybe he didn’t do it , poisonally. Perhaps his loving father.
Nice people, some of those yanks.
Of course every dead EYE-RAQI is a good one, so no distinction need be made between women, kids and adult males.
And those thousands who die from lack of medical care are just more bonus points.
GWB calls it ‘demahcracy, or VICTORY ‘,.
For the moment they are still so shocked and horrified, there is no counterattack on mainland bushland.
IF I were one of them, it would be my life’s work to get back at the bushfamily .
Not blind terror, just them and primarily HIM .
As the mafia say—revenge is a dish better eaten cold… so GWB might never ever sleep well, ever again ..
except he may well have no imagination, at all….
Who cares about this war criminal’s psychology ? The point is that he needs impeachment and if the Democrats could remove their lips from the AIPAC pecker maybe we could impeach him.
No chance Mike.
They’re going to go down with him, not on him.
US and UK and the other stooges are technically liable under various bits of the Geneva and Hague Conventions for not looking after the people in Occupied Territory.
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