When Army Col. Ike Wilson returned home in March 2004 from a 12 month deployment in Iraq, one thought remained with him: “Why such a deliberate plan to fight the war, but none to win the peace to follow?” Wilson, a West Point professor with years of military planning experience, knew that placing this question at the the center of national… return to article
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Reader Comments (58)Page 1 of 1 pagesThanks but no cigar. The military are trained killers and they have never defended me from anyone. Ever.
Posted by blondemike on Jan 22, 2007 at 6:21 PM Thank you for a well written article. It is a shame that “progressives” will not listen. Honor, Duty, and Country are not liberal values and that is the crux of the problem.
Army lawyers are providing detainees with legal representation and insuring treatment under Geneva guidelines. However they understand they are enemy combatants and not under civilian Constitutional protection. They have no due process rights nor can they be tried in civilian court.
International treaties are important. However treaties that endanger soldiers such as the ICC or the land mine ban treaty are not “valued” nor are they advocated.
Nuclear weapons are not usable in most conflicts. However as a deterrent they are invaluable. The current classes of weapons are aging and will be replaced with smaller more accurate weapons. No soldier wants to fight a nuclear war but is unfortunately prepared and ready to do just that if called on.
Posted by texasindependent on Jan 22, 2007 at 6:51 PM If individuals within the military enjoy celebrating New Years’ with cute kids and handing out food to the hungry, and that is why they joined the Army (as suggested by another article I read in Harpers a few weeks ago), and they were simply unable to do peacetime public service because all the slots were taken by middle-class progressives, then we need to expand Vista/Americorps and the Peace Corps with all deliberate speed. They must be really desperate to do charity work overseas if they’re willing to take the risk not only of being killed but also of being ordered to kill—and possibly even kill the cute kid they’re celebrating with in that picture. What happens if that smiling soldier meets that same kid at a checkpoint next week and the kid’s dad gets confused about a hand signal and doesn’t stop?
Maybe individual soldiers didn’t WANT to be trained killers, but, as mentioned by blondemike, that is what the Army is for. If we don’t want trained killers to be the primary way America interacts with other countries, and the people in the Army don’t want to primarily express foreign policy goals through shooting at people, the solution isn’t to “Love the Soldier, Hate the War.” It’s to “Hate the War, Shrink the Armed Forces, Expand Peacetime Service” and if that particular “soldier” really doesn’t want to kill kids, he isn’t a soldier, he’s a would-be PeaceCorps volunteer, and in that case, yes, he does have everything in common with me and nothing in common with the Army.
I volunteer to take care of cute kids at a women’s shelter on Mondays and Tuesdays, and I worked for 8 years in the management of that shelter, and before that I worked for practically nothing as an Americorps and Vista (domestic peacetime service) and unpaid volunteer for four years building affordable housing for other cute kids. Do you think anybody refers to me as having “served my country”? No. We bend over backwards talking about the Sainted Troops, and I know why we do it, because if we don’t talk about how we “support the troops” endlessly over and over again, we will be thought of as dirty treacherous hippies and we won’t be able to end the war. But the problem is, with all this Reverence for Serving The Country As A Soldier, it is impossible for us to effectively challenge the basic concept of having a huge military, and so the huge military stays around, ready for some other loser President and brain-dead Congress to get us into another war later on.
I support the troops coming home safely—if they would find other work, there would be nothing wrong with them. I support them receiving full funding for whatever health problems they’ve been saddled with during the war. I won’t spit on them when they get off the plane, I promise, and I support expanding PeaceCorps and Vista and Americorps so if they want to serve their country in peacetime they can. I strongly support them receiving training to un-teach what they learned in boot camp so they can reintegrate into a peaceful society. But I don’t support them continuing to be soldiers in the most expensive military in history, because then some other crazy leader will just start another damn war.
Meanwhile, let’s consider Blonde Mike’s statement that “they have never defended me from anyone.” Harsh. I mean, if we had no military at all, what would have happened on September 11? The terrorists could have flown four planes into our major national landmarks (okay 3, because of the passengers on the one in Pennsylvania) and demolished two of the tallest buildings in the country, and we wouldn’t have even been able to scramble any planes in time to catch them. Oh wait, that’s what happened anyhow? Hmmmmm.
Posted by davelwhite on Jan 22, 2007 at 7:24 PM We have a military and look what happened on 9-11 ? That was the end
product of 60 years of military intervention in the Near East as well as support of local militaries there, Texass. Oh, the US should be exempt from the treaties we wish others to abide by ? Nukes as a deterrent ?
Well, the first time two sides actually USE them will be the end of that argument.
The captured soldiers are ONLY enemy combatants because Dictator Bush so declared. 99% of them have not even been charged much less
convicted.
Army lawyers can’t do much because they are hamstrung by the same govt they work for and if that is the kind of legal representation you would be happy with then you are even dumber than I thought.
Posted by blondemike on Jan 22, 2007 at 8:37 PM Hippies….. And what would your response have been to NORAD shooting down two passenger airliners over New York CIty? Could any explanation have soothed the ruffled pink panties of you peaceniks? Hijacked planes were diverted to some pissant country before 9-11 and some sand-jockey berated us over foreign policy and the passengers were freed eventually. No one really thought 19 hajis armed with boxcutters would crash fully loaded 767’s into buildings. But after the fact you pansies want to complain. Where was your concern when Clinton was shredding the Defense Budget in the 90’s? When the ANG and Air Force had training and fuel budgets reduced to the point that many Guard Pilots had more simulator flight time than actual air time. You disgust me.
Treaties can be signed by whatever country wishes to. America has not endorsed the ICC because of Left wing nutjobs that have an axe to grind. Why endorse a treaty that will be used to attack your citizens and your military.
Nuclear weapons are the only deterrent for nuclear weapons. MAD is the only solution that works.
Soldiers have a uniform and a command structure. The hajis in Camp X-Ray have neither. They are not protected under the Constitution nor due process. They are terrorists and are subject to UCMJ rules. As such they do not have to be “charged”.
Posted by texasindependent on Jan 23, 2007 at 8:15 AM Good article —perhaps the single, most positive one I ever remember reading at ITT.
We need more people willing to listen and to try new approaches to timeless problems. I have heard comments like these from some of my retired military friends, but none of high enough rank and position to do much more than the local level chocolate bar handouts.
I hope we will build on this to involve all freedom-loving nations to join in eradicating those conditions which permit tyrants like Saddam coming to power. IMO one of our biggest mistakes in Iraq was not making a convincing case for so many major former allies to participate. It could have been better.
texasindependent,
The values Duty, Honor, Country, as evidenced by the U.S. military are the reason people have an opportunity to be “Liberals” whether they realize it or not. The ICC, like the U.N. is composed of non-elected representatives who want to run things — deciding what is OUR duty, WHO to honor and total disregard for countries.Some of those same people can’t handle the issue of Holocaust denial without resorting to the same methods which brought it about — making a criminal offense of someone’s dissenting opinion. NOT very liberal.
Posted by whattheheck on Jan 23, 2007 at 2:28 PM Our soldiers are the world’s leading terrorists, see Chomsky’s Rogue State and William Blum’s Rogue States. Any totalitarian system has a command and control structure . The prisoners in GITMO are protected under our Constitution and need to be either charged or released with fulsome apologies and full compensation. Nukes are not a deterrent for anything but by your logic Texass Iran and North Korea are fully justified in acquiring as Castro was in placing Soviet missiles in Cuba to prevent a US attack. MAD is the appropriate acronym here. Bush is a lawless terrorist who needs to be impeached. Clinton never shredded the “defense” budget anymore than Carter did. Both radically increased it. It should have shredded under Clinton since the Warsaw Pact dissolved and any Arab threat is SOLELY a function of our one sided support of fascist, racist Israel but it wasn’t. Texass you are a pathetic taco version of Scorp, spouting one Limbaughite lie after another. The US didn’t endorse the ICC precisely because the US is the leading rogue terrorist state and knows that the standards it preaches for others would have to be applied to us. The US State and its stinky apologists are scared to face that elementary fact. We can see why some of the Founders opposed a standing army which they rightly saw as an instrument of tyranny. Last defensive war we were in was 1812, FDR baited the Japs into PH and we the same with 9-11 because of AIPAC control of our state. BTW, it’s not holocaust denial, WTH, it’s holocaust revisionism. We have already agreed to disagree on the military, WTH, so my remarks here are aimed at Texass. One final point, Bush invaded Iraq precisely because he knew it didn’t have WMD’s so in that sense it confirms MAD. But a more intelligent approach is bilateral and total dismantling of all WMD’s by EVERYONE PARTICULARLY INCLUDING THE US AS THE ONLY
STATE TO EVER USE (UNJUSTIFIABLY) NUKES.
Posted by blondemike on Jan 23, 2007 at 7:48 PM “because the US is the leading rogue terrorist state “
Ha ha ha ha!!!! ho hee ha ho ho ho!!! You are *hilarious* - you should apply to be on The Daily Show! Too funny! Keep up your entertaining posts, they are priceless. :)
Posted by wolf on Jan 23, 2007 at 9:59 PM wolf aka scorp aka major major aka texass independent aka dumbass….............................................
Posted by blondemike on Jan 23, 2007 at 10:02 PM TI, WTH,
Martial values like Duty, Honor, and Country are in the service of liberal democratic values, such as Liberty, Equality, and Justice for All, not the other way around. At least in a democratic nation.
If you guys have no interest in living and participating in a democratic society, then consider your priorities to be perfectly understood. Exactly for what they are.
Would that the military as it stands were well trained and disciplined in the kind of promising new paradigms emerging from our present horrifically incompetent, disengenuous, and counter-productive involvement in Iraq.
We always seem to learn the same lessons over and over again. The hard way.
Posted by luminous beauty on Jan 24, 2007 at 12:56 AM Hello Texas Indie,
Beyond the probability that some of the inmates at Guantanamo were scooped up and transferred there by mistake, i.e. they really haven’t done anything but were in the wrong place in the wrong time, I have another direct concern as an American.I do find it a disturbing precedent to place criminal/enemy suspects beyond the reach of legal due process. I’m deeply unhappy with the concept that Constitutional limitations upon government power can be seen as an impediment to that government’s policy agenda, and that all that’s necessary to avoid that impediment is to build a prison facility on a military base. Perhaps it’s an old fashioned attachment to the idea that it’s the place of a sitting administration to operate within Constitutional limits rather than to figure out ways to evade them. It makes it all the more easy for a future administration to evade the limits they find problematic, and others after that, and so on.
And really, after so many long years, it does beg the question of what is finally going to be done with those prisoners. Are we just going to hold them until they die, barring a handful of innocents for whom some advocacy organization goes to bat? Surely some kind of due process is called for, if our legal values are worth more than just boring rhetoric for indoctrinating teenagers in the classroom, or for 4th of July celebrations.
You get my drift, eh?
Posted by Kuya on Jan 24, 2007 at 9:06 AM Mike
With every post your moronic rantings take on ever new levels of insanity. How can foreign fighters captured overseas and held offshore qualify for Constitutional protection. Chimpsky has no merit and your attempts to use him as a source are dull at best. Your “Holocaust revisionism” is racist bullshit. Why not visit an airport and find a returning ” American military terrorist” and inform him or her of your opinion. After the swelling goes down and you leave the hospital perhaps you can get your medication refilled.LB
Democratic societies are democratic because of martial values such as Honor, Duty, and Country. I understand your priorities quite well. The typical elitist attitude that looks down on the knuckle draggers who serve in the military. While Iraq is a festering cesspool, and no one wants to be in country.And every single soldier in Iraq counts the hours until they get to leave. But…. We are there. If we leave as you nice people keep suggesting where do you suggest we retreat to? Because the nice “freedom fighters” are not Iraqi and they will follow along. Perhaps your hometown would enjoy their tender mercies.
Posted by texasindependent on Jan 24, 2007 at 9:27 AM Oh! TI. I’m so scared! the terraist bogeyman is gonna kill me in my bed! Not.
How, exactly, does a Martial State produce a democratic society, except that the people revolt against the Martial State?
Is there anything more elitist than the chain of command? It’s not the men and women on the ground upon whom I look down. Look past their uniforms and they and I are the same. It’s the asshole sitting on the throne, ordering those who honorably serve to commit dishonorable acts, I disdain.
You haven’t a clue about my priorities.
In fact, you are totally clueless.
“The most common of all follies is to believe passionately in the palpably not true. It is the chief occupation of mankind.” - H.L. Mencken
Mencken was talking about you.
Posted by luminous beauty on Jan 24, 2007 at 3:47 PM Tex, Wolf, Kuya, LB, Blondie,
Well, at least we have consistency — LB is always identifying with the poor, misunderstood murderer or terrorist and shows no compassion or sympathy for their targets. (see discussion on capital punishment ITT home page)
Blondie always finds something to saddle the U.S. with in the “blame game.” How long do you think Saddam would have put up with you before giving you flying lessons from the top of a building? Lucky for you with your holocaust views, you don’t live in Europe.
Kuya, look on the positive side of things. During WWll these guys would not be at Guantanamo — they’d have been summarily shot — as fighters without uniforms were by both sides. A disturbing precedent is thinking of all enemy fighters as mere “criminals” and entitled to due process.
Tex and Wolf, while IMO Iraq was a strategic mistake compounded by too long without a change of course, since we are there, sending a large force (whatever it takes to establish security — ASAP) is the only way out. Next time we should limit ourselves to eliminating training camps, cells, etc.
Posted by whattheheck on Jan 24, 2007 at 3:59 PM WTH,
You do your own intelligence a great disfavor by your false and demeaning characterization of for whom I do and whom I do not have sympathy and compassion .
But if it gives you some solace against the dearth of wisdom age has brought you, then who am I to judge?
Go ahead and believe in the bloody Hobbesian intrinsic awful vengefulness of yourself and the rest of humanity if you find it assuages in some small measure the painful conflict driven and unsatisfactory state of your guilt-ridden conscience. You are your own man and I wouldn’t take away your freedom of conscience even if I could.
I will, however, stand against you whenever you presume to present yourself as having the moral authority to prescribe it as the only true frame within which to discern reality.
That is my freedom of conscience.
Posted by luminous beauty on Jan 24, 2007 at 5:48 PM LB,
It would be interesting if someone else would read our exchange on the capital punishment thread and point out any examples of compassion or sympathy which you expressed toward the victims I wrote about or their families.
I found none.
Posted by whattheheck on Jan 24, 2007 at 6:22 PM Texass, we illegally kidnapped foreign nationals on FOREIGN soil. The only one we arrested without charges on US soil is an AMERICAN citizen, Jose Padillo. Even a tacoboy like you should be able to figure that one out. If you kidnap large numbers of people for a trial that has yet
to happen you AT THE VERY LEAST owe them full legal rights. Or does your fellow TexJackassan ‘s whims override the Bill of Rights ????? As far as holocaust revisionism goes, beaner boy, you have yet read to even read much less rebut any of it. WTH, it’s my natural right to speak out on holocaust revisionism or anything else and the only reason they outlaw it in Europe is because they CAN"T refute it. They don’t imprison flatearthers. 99% of all alleged atrocities by Saddam Hussein are pure invented BULLSHIT like 90% of the misnamed “holocaust.” You probably believed the Germans bayoneted Belgian babies in WW1 too. I am going to discredit your last “good war” WTH, I vote against EVERY bond for vets, THEY ARE THE SCUM OF THE EARTH AND HAVE NEVER PROTECTED ME. Only lowlife like Texass join to ripoff the taxpayer for future bennies and because they can’t make it in the free market. The Pentagon is the major outpost of socialist welfare in America today and that war criminals like you used to get away with more atrocities than the current crop does does NOT make it right, then or now. Only a Manchurian McCainiac lunatic like you, WTH, can believe sending many more troops would help, you win the Joey Lieberman Award For Stupid Ass of 07. Are you really a Communist agent, WTH ? Most neocons started there….....................One can oppose BOTH criminals and capital punishment, WTH, it’s like you can have more than one enemy. Ever walk and chew bubble gum at the same time ? TexDumbASS, martial values are utterly incompatible with free societies and in fact are best exemplified by the Communists & Fascists, whom knuckleheads like you are always advocating war on. No, TexDumbASS, the insurgents are not going to invade US if we leave Iraq anymore than the VC invaded us, LBJ to the contrary, when we left Nam. Maybe Texass needs to enact an income tax to subsidize your peepul’s education, boy, because you are one sorry example of the uneducated using a newspaper as a Mexican umbrella TexAssan.
Finally, WTH, Saddam’s real atrocities in the 70s and 80s were the killing of leftists and the communists and THAT WAS SUPPORTED BY YOUR HERO AND TEX’S HERO, RONALD MCDONALD REAGAN.
Posted by blondemike on Jan 24, 2007 at 6:49 PM Perhaps if the question was ‘how to compensate the victims of crime?’ and not about the ethical basis of the death penalty, I would have more to say about the victims.
Do you really believe your red herring argument about the victims is anything but a disengenuous distraction?
Posted by luminous beauty on Jan 24, 2007 at 7:12 PM LB
Quoting a racist, brain damaged white “libertarian"to support your arguments does not give you much credibility. Mencken was the epitome of white racist dogma. Your choice of reading material is revealing as well as revolting. I will have to rank you with blondemike as an racist dumbass.
Posted by texasindependent on Jan 25, 2007 at 5:36 AM TI,
In the words of the late John Belushi, “Excuuuuuuuuuuuuse me!”
Posted by luminous beauty on Jan 25, 2007 at 3:47 PM Mencken forgot more on ANY subject than you ever knew Taco Texassan. Now where’s my order of enchiladas ?
Posted by blondemike on Jan 25, 2007 at 5:39 PM Mencken was a racist. As such his work should be trashed. Chomsky is a racist. As such his work has no meaning. People who quote Mencken and Chomsky are either racist as well or use their quotes to assume the intellectual mantle without actually reading their garbage.
From the various posts on ITT the levels of racism among progressives is suprising. I would rather deal with the most ignorant white trailer trash such as Mike, at least he has an excuse.
Posted by texasindependent on Jan 25, 2007 at 6:15 PM You are using the standard ad hominem argument of trashing the messenger instead of dealing with the message. It’s absurd to judge Mencken’s views circa 1910-1948 in light of today’s PC bullshit. It is like saying you won’t consider the theory of relativity because Einstein was a Communist sympathizer as he indeed was. It’s like the morons who boycott Wagner’s music because they don’t like his views on some Jews. It in no way discredits or debunks Mencken on a trillion other subjects even if everyone was to agree with your warped definition of racism and many of us do not, TexASS. Ergo for Chomsky, in his case he is an even more fanatical PC “anti-racist” than you are. You have never even given one example of Chomsky’s alleged racism and in fact Chomsky has been particularly vocal in opposing racism in his own tribe, the Jews. Can you say the same for your racist Reconquista brown brothers ? I would bet money not. You are the one that lives in a tralier park, I live in a very nice home with my Jewish wife of eighteen years. TexASS maybe you should turn off Limbaugh and Savage and try to read some revisionist history and see if any advanced knowledge can be apprehended by that apparently stunted mind of yours. Hate to break it to you, bro, but your tribe, the Spanish are the greatest mass murderers in world history, 7-8 million natives in Dominican Republic-Haiti under old Chris C., millions more “Indians” north of the Rio Grande and tens of millions of “Indians” south of the Rio Grande plus 30 million witches in Europe and millions of black cats (the evil eye paranoia). Only Mao and US imperialism since 1898 come close. Please spare us the morals “racism” lectures, little Jose. Neither you personally or any of your people are fit to give them. as Noam Chomsky has correctly noted, the Spanish culture is the most murderous culture in world history, even the Krauts during the 30 Years Religious Wars never quite got to your peepul’s incredible level of rape, mass murder, general pillage and all around mindless violence. Mencken and Chomsky will be read long after you are buried in Potter’s Field, Jose.
Posted by blondemike on Jan 25, 2007 at 7:20 PM PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT
You have undoubtedly observed that Mike is irrational, inconsistent, and lacking in intellectual snap. Some of you may not be aware of just how stupid he is, leaving his ID all over the Internet while maintaining his pseudonymous nonentity identity. WARNING: Be careful of what you say about Mike, or he will threaten you with beheading or with his genuine .357 Mag. The following is reproduced from a previous ITT thread:
Michael P. Hardesty (aka blondemike) Biography
Brackets [] indicate end note citations.
Mr. Hardesty is a person of strong opinions, but his relationships with fact and logic are weak or non-existent. Sorting through his thoughts (?), such as they are, is made infinitely more difficult by his inconsistency, reflecting his internal conflicts and scatter-brained approach to his chosen subject matter, which includes principally foreign and domestic politics.
Mr. Hardesty has a wife/companion/housemate/whatever named Nina, and four cats. They all live unhappily in Oakland in a mixed race neighborhood, for which they provide most of the mixing. Their domestic situation reflects Mr. Hardesty’s combative writing style, as they are involved in legal actions against their neighbors and their veterinarian, and arguments with the Oakland Police Department.
At various times, Mr. Hardesty has claimed to have a Ph.D. and a moderately high IQ; both claims are certainly spurious. Mr. Hardesty’s footprints are all over the Internet, with no indication of academic accomplishment, much less intelligence. But do not confuse our Mr. Michael P. Hardesty with Michael P. Hardesty, the NOAA scientist, or Michael P. Hardesty, the artist, or Michael P. Hardesty, the business executive, and possibly not Michael P. Hardesty, the felon convicted of cocaine and weapons possession. But it is interesting that our Michael P. Hardesty talks of his .357 Magnum, and the felonious Michael P. Hardesty had a .357 Magnum. As a convicted felon, the felonious Michael P. Hardesty would be forbidden to own a weapon, so that excludes our Michael P. Hardesty. Right?
Regardless of any felonicity, our friend Mike’s inconsistency is well documented. As a left-liberal, Mike has certain assumed attitudes, but his belief system is intermittently shaken by reality:
My housemate and I have been almost the sole whites living in a largely Afro-American neighborhood as homeowners the past four years. Our experiences have caused us to revise our formerly glib left-liberal assumptions on race, welfare, civil rights, affirmative action, gun control, identity politics, rent control, ad nauseam. [1]
Maybe that explains the Mag.
Mike is also inconsistent in his political writings. If you have been following his semi-literate arguments, Mike is a cultic follower of Noam Chomsky. Sometimes.
I’ve known and corresponded with Chomsky for almost two decades and recently parted ways with him over his god complex, refusal to acknowledge any errors at all, his recent contortions on the nonexistent silent genocide in Afghanistan and the preposterous lie that thousands or millions may have died as a result of Clinton’s bombing of the Sudan pharmaceutical factory in error. And many more issues where I have butted heads with him. [2]
But opposites attract, and likes repel. Mike “refus(es) to acknowledge any errors at all”, and he proclaims “genocide” by capitalism where none exists. No wonder Mike broke with Chomsky, but you couldn’t tell it from his writings, because Mike has consistently argued that Chomsky is so great.
Mike’s writing style may be characterized as haphazard, obscene, and scatalogical, but if it were not scatalogic, it would have no logic at all. He is big into labels: dumb, stupid, moron, bastard. But he is opposed to ad hominem attacks. Go figure. His signature spelling/grammar error is his use of “your” when he means the homophonic contraction “you’re”. MIKE IS ALSO BIG ON ALL CAPS AND LOTS OF EXCLAMATION POINTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AND QUESTION MARKS???????????
Besides ITT, Mike has had running arguments in many Internet venues, which make for interesting reading up to a point, when the story line collapses into sameness and boredom. Mike has been banned from several sites. [2], [3]
Mike is big on making idle and not-so-idle threats from behind the (former) security of his keyboard, including advocating use of the Mag and decapitation. Mike wants me to give him my location so he can come kick my butt. But he did not give his location, I had to go find it. It is my firm belief that Mike is of short stature, probably not more than 5’-6”. This is based on his constant and irrelevant references to size, a classic example of the projection defense mechanism; Mike calls me a little man, because he is insecure about his height. But I had to knock the heels off my combat boots to get under the height restrictions to get into airborne school. You still want to kick butt, Michael P.?
[1] http://search.eastbayexpress.com/Issues/2001-07-25/news/letters.html
[2] http://oliverkamm.typepad.com/blog/2004/11/chomskys_outlet.html
[3] Blog and website citations:
http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/discuss/1774/
http://www.oaklandnews.com/archives/000061.html
http://www.tomgpalmer.com/archives/015527.php
http://www.berkeleydailyplanet.com/article.cfm?archiveDate=12-28-01&story yID=9248
http://www.zmag.org/ZMag/articles/hardesty.htm
http://www.berkeleydaily.org/opinion_article.cfm?archiveDate=12-28-01&sto oryID=9248
http://www.sfweekly.com/Issues/1998-04-15/news/letters.html
Posted by scorp on Jan 25, 2007 at 7:31 PM Scorp, no one cares about your old tactic of trying to discredit the message by ad hominem attacks on the messenger. Unlike you I have been published in places other than web boards. The Washington Post, East Bay Express, Z Magazine, The Progressive, The National Guardian (NY), the Anderson Valley Advertiser, etc. I’m talking about full length articles, not letters to the editor.
As I told you when you first posted this, give me your real name and address. I’ll kick you’re buck teeth so far down your disease ridden throat that you will have to brush your falsies via your anal canal. C’ mon, big chicken !
BTW, I was only banned from ONE site, the Oakland News and a few days later the banner was struck down dead in her forties.
Posted by blondemike on Jan 25, 2007 at 9:29 PM Mike
Racism is as disgusting today as it was in Mencken’s time. I prefer my bigots to at least be honest. Don’t try to hide bigotry behind political rhetoric or attempt to pass it off as satire. Chimspky’s involvement in the Faurisson affair showed the depths of his self hatred and bigotry to the world. Rational people regardless of political affiliation have discarded him and his rantings to the dustbin of history.The attempts at revising historical fact 60 years after the events transpired is ridiculous and only serves to honor the dogma of Nazi racial thought.
Posted by texasindependent on Jan 26, 2007 at 12:00 AM “Racism is as disgusting today as it was in Mencken’s time.”
That is sad. I was really hoping that racism had gotten more disgusting since the days when Henry Louis Mencken was giving hell to the KKK.
Posted by luminous beauty on Jan 26, 2007 at 12:24 AM No it isn’t, moron. You had open lynchings and Jim Crow laws back then. Chomsky defended Faurisson’s right of free speech only, but it would not be racist to endorse Faurisson’s conclusions. If I say the holocaust didn’t happen as conventionally stated that doesn’t mean that I’m in favor of one !!!!!!!!!!!! Chomsky has hundreds of millions of followers worldwide as you would discover if you read his work and not the lunatic ravings of ex-Commie turned rightwing extremist David Horowitz. “Racism” to an imbecile like you is like “socialism” to a rightist like Scorp, it’s an all purpose swear word that bears no relation to fact. And people whom you stupidly label “racist” are under no obligation to conform to your stereotype of same. People started questioning the standard “holocaust” views over 50 years ago, there is no time limit on reexaming history.
Posted by blondemike on Jan 26, 2007 at 1:16 AM HL Mencken may have “given the KKK hell” but he was as dismissive of African-Americans as the Grand Kleagle. His views may have been tolerated at the time but with the passage of time should come wisdom.
The problem is white America lacks any point of reference to understand racism. I have dealt with racist morons like mikey my entire life. I find them amusing now that I am beyond their limited ability to affect my life in any real manner. I do worry about the millions of “mud people” as mikey so delicately called us who don’t have that luxury.LB you should be able to read Mencken and understand his slurs are vicious and painful words to many different racial groups.Can I quote you just a few of the thousands of derrogatory words HL used? ” Kike, nigger, spic, blackaroo, coon, wop, and prehensile kike.”
Call it satire or call it shit its bigotry.
Posted by texasindependent on Jan 26, 2007 at 1:58 AM Texass, why don’t you just take you’re self-pitying whiner ass and go do the anatomically impossible. I don’t doubt that you create ten anti-Mexicans every day like Alan Dershowitz creates ten “anti-semites” every hour. People picking on you, poor little fella….... Tough shit.
Mencken was a great writer no matter how UN PC his words. Now where the hell’s my order ? I agree that you are a racist moron as are most of your brothers but who cares ? Poor yittle feelings hurt ? Race is a natural fact of life, the bogus “term” racism was invented in the 20s AND AS LONG AS THERE IS NO STATE ENFORCED DISCRIMINATION YOU DON’T HAVE A LEG TO STAND ON.
Now, I told you I want extra sour cream on my tacos, boy.
Posted by blondemike on Jan 26, 2007 at 2:14 AM TI,
Mark Twain used the word ‘nigger’ some 250 times in “Huck Finn”. I suppose that makes him a racist. (read “Huck Finn” to find out.)
There is much that I find disagreeable in the writings of Mencken. He was a social darwinist for one thing. But his elite included the exceptional and gifted from all races and nationalities. Was he insensitive to the sensibilties of minority groups? He was insensitive to all groups. He was above all a critic of groupthink. Especially the Booboisie. And that is what gets your goat. You being such a passionate spokesperson for the mediocre middle-class reaganista idiocracy and all.
One thing that you or I or anyone cannot deny about Mencken was the intelligence and sharpness of his wit.
That I admire in anyone. It is too bad you are so unappreciative and seemingly unaware of that sublime and liberating human gift.
Posted by luminous beauty on Jan 26, 2007 at 3:52 AM “Racism” a weasel word has nothing to do with Tex’s objections to Mencken. Mencken was hardcore anti-military and anti-war and to a wannabe Texas redneck like TI that is anathema. Anti-racism has become to liberal scoundrels what anti-communism was to conservative scoundrels in the 1950s. TI is just a “minority” version of Scorp, same neocon policies and big lies. If Tex was so anti-racist he would not support a “Jewish State” in Israel where 25% of the population is NonJewish. Imagine a Christian State here in America and how the Alan Dershowitzes would howl & properly so.
Posted by blondemike on Jan 26, 2007 at 5:40 PM LB, speaking of racism, take a look at TI’s incredible anti-Arab racist statements on the Spoils of War thread ! And this lowlife criticizes Mencken for racism !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by blondemike on Jan 26, 2007 at 7:43 PM scorp - nice expose, but nothing very surprising. Personally i feel sorry for guys like Mike.
Who said “stupidity and arrogance make for a terrible combination!”? So true.
Posted by wolf on Jan 27, 2007 at 6:13 PM I found blondmike’s first comment about ” the military being trained killers…“of deep value. It represents my feelings all the way. I feel it’s unfair to brainwash young people, turn them into robots and insuflate them with hatred towards other people they never met before to make me safe? safety doesn’t exist, living is not safe but we should use our capabilities to produce good deeds and above all to learn that all human beings are alike despite their nationality, religion, social status or other invented differences. Call me a moron, I rather be that than lend an ear to the reptile brain we all have deep under.
Posted by Maria on Jan 28, 2007 at 4:52 AM Wolf, you have yet to make even a semblance of an intelligent argument.
You keep blowing scorp, not healthy.
Thanks, Maria.
Posted by blondemike on Jan 28, 2007 at 10:30 PM No matter what we say on this blog, for or against the war, the fact is there will be 4,000 U.S. soldiers dead by the end of this year or more.
They are being killed about a hundred a month. Next year we will still be talking about the same things. We will still be bullshitting each other on who is right and who is wrong.
Posted by brian28 on Jan 29, 2007 at 1:14 AM Those of us who oppose this war are not bullshitting, the proponents are.
Posted by blondemike on Jan 29, 2007 at 10:27 PM brian28, let me remind you that not only U.,S. soldiers will be dead. The first step towards pacifism is to understand that both sides suffer in a war and that those who happen to live in the country where the war is taking place suffer the most. So far, USA has been starting wars outside its borders for a long time or training military from other countries to exercise repression against their own people (such as in South and Central America) so you can’t expect the rest of the world to consider your country as a model to be followed. Billions of dollars are spent on weapons, equipment and men while countries are destroyed, which leaves little margin to doubt who is playing “the bad guy”. I wih it weren’t so. Many of us looked up to USA as a country full of good things and principles from which we wanted to learn. I feel our deception must be a deception for a great part of the American people as well.
Posted by Maria on Jan 30, 2007 at 3:36 AM You are right U.S.A. is not a country to look up to, we have been under a dictator for 6 years, and we have 2 years left. We have fallen, under this president and won’t get the trust of the rest of the world for many of years if at all. This war has made many american companies rich, U.S. has spent 500 billion dollars with little to no results for the iraq people.
The new principals for the U.S. is make money, and then pretend you are doing something good for the counrtry we have destroyed.
Posted by brian28 on Feb 2, 2007 at 5:08 PM counrty?
The usual flogging by lefties. The world doesn’t like us…What crybabies. The rest of the planet needs America a great deal more than America needs the rest of the planet. If you despise our foreign policy ...Tough. How about the NOT IN MY NAME for average people who really don’t give a shit about the sensibilities of foreigners. I mean I would not want harm to come to David or Maria. I really don’t know them. I don’t feel I owe them any special consideration or debt. I don’t feel I should ask their permission to do anything really. Why therefore should I consider their opinion on my country’s foreign policy. They are not citizens of my country, they can not vote, nor do they pay taxes in America. David and Maria mean well I am sure but somehow the Internet has given them the false impression that they are owed an explanation for our foreign policies. That is the fault of the hippies. All that “we are all brothers” , hugging and love crap has come back to bite us in the ass again.
Posted by texasindependent on Feb 3, 2007 at 2:13 AM TI,
I think it’s the trail of corpses in the wake of US <u>foriegn</u> policy that gets them danged <u>foriegn</u>ers upset. How dare they? Let’s take all our bad TV shows and brain-dead movies and go home. That’ll learn ‘em.
Thanks for the laughs, clueless.
Posted by luminous beauty on Feb 3, 2007 at 4:02 AM texasindependent, internet hasn’t gone up my head or made me think I have any special right to question your country’s foreign policy. I pay taxes where I live, I used to vote back in my country and so what. What we are discussing here has nothing to do with your internal policies, the way your government or your people wish to organize their affairs. The very name is self-explanatory: we are talking about USA FOREIGN policy, which even a moron like me knows is the policy your country carries out in other people’s lands which is absolutely one-sided, mostly based on greed and arrogance. This wouldn’t be so bad if it wasn’t responsible for the death of many, for misery and starvation, and above all because the rest of the world haven’t granted you the role of leaders or rulers. If my country had started a war based on lies, had destroyed other countries or helped authoritarian governments to “disappear” valuable people because their political views were not approved by USA, I would at least have the decency of feeling a little embarrased and have some doubts about the right they may have to decide who is to live or who is to die., who is right and who is wrong. Even in your country during the sad Mc Carthy’s period, thousands of worthy people were banned, persecuted and ill treated. I am not a leftie, or commie, or whatever name you so easily call everyone who disagrees with your views but if I were nobody has the right to punish me for what I think.
Posted by Maria on Feb 3, 2007 at 4:39 AM The usual flogging by the righties. MY way or the highway. America can go and kill who ever and destroy any country we want, because the rest of the world needs us more than we need them. If they don’t like it screw them. If you don’t like it leave america you commie, hippy bastards. Remember this is the conservative religious people spewing this crap. This is a great way to teach the iraq people. People like texasindependent will keep this planet in war for ever, and his way of thinking will come back to bite us in the ass again and again. When america looses it power in the world or we get hit with another 911 mr. texas will be one of the biggest crybabies of them all.
Posted by brian28 on Feb 4, 2007 at 7:51 PM No one is punishing hippies for the nonsense they believe. California is the best example of that.
Maria you are a marxist your posts have shown that. I have no “shame” when it comes to my security. Worry about your country I will worry about mine.
McCarthy was right Maria, records have shown that many of the people he accused of Communist ties were shock and surprise Marxist sympathizers and agents. Marxism is a failed theory and as such needs to be expelled from civilized society. Perhaps the only solution is civil war. Armed conflict between bleeding hearts and “knuckle draggers”. It would be amusing for the ten minutes it would take.
Posted by texasindependent on Feb 4, 2007 at 8:48 PM All demeaning insults and strawman characterizations all the time. The righties understanding of principled debate.
TI,
Here is a scholarly LINK that will explain everything you need to know.
Posted by luminous beauty on Feb 4, 2007 at 9:24 PM Oh, texas, thank you for illuminating me, in all these years I hadn’t discovered the truth about myself as you have so cleverly done. I wrongly assumed I was a free thinker but now that you tell me, I can plainly see I am a marxist. What can I do to cease being it? Please, enlighten me, Big Brother. Oh, by the way I also enjoyed Bob Dylan’s songs. Does that make me a hippie too? Oh, Great Lord, what am I going to do, will I ever be forgiven?
Posted by Maria on Feb 5, 2007 at 2:07 AM TexASS anytime you’re sorry ass folks want that “civil war” we’re ready. The USA has not suffered from any surplus of love but more from the hate and anti-Arab racism that vicious rightist goons like you promote. Poor little beaner likes to pretend he’s driving a beamer and if only the TexASS rednecks would accept him like one of their own. But they don’t because they regard your group as the major national security threat through illegal mass immigration. Too bad, TacoCon. But I’m sure
some bleeding heart Lib will defend you when they come for you.
Posted by blondemike on Feb 5, 2007 at 7:08 PM Costa Rica is a beautiful country Maria. Pacifism is fine for a small insignificant country such as yours. It will not work for America. We will defend ourselves whenever and wherever we see the need. Thats our sovereign right as a nation. The UN is a joke and unable to prevent or protect. As such America doesn’t rely on words we prefer action.
Posted by texasindependent on Feb 6, 2007 at 10:07 PM It will work FINE for America and it’s NOT pacifism, it’s traditional US noninterventionism. We have never defended ourselves, TexASS. As you know we are sitting on a third of your country, Me Hi Co.
Any criminal would endorse you’re rely on action mindlessness. Maria, ideological criminals like TexASS are not real Americans. Iraq is NOT part of our sovereign country, look at a MAP. Last justified war of self-defense USA was in was in 1812. Go back to your war glorifying Spanish culture, TexASS and get your illegal ass out of here.
Posted by blondemike on Feb 7, 2007 at 12:56 AM I hate wars and pity the warriors. I am not Costarican, I am Argentine, but chose Costa Rica to live in because it has no army. I have read enough history books to learn that all wars have been started based on the false premise of “defense” or some other high purpose. Funny, war starters never say they are attacking which I think sounds like paranoia. The worst part is young people are sent to kill or be killed as if it were natural, while the hate-mongers stay sitting at home and cheering their country, not to mention the hidden faces behind all thrones which profit from wars. It’s really sad and I don’t want to be part of this sick scheme. Maybe it’s my feminine condition but I love life and its manifestations and will never endorse violence.
Posted by Maria on Feb 7, 2007 at 1:43 AM Thanks, Maria. You represent the good side of spanish culture, TexASS represents all that is evil in that culture and the world as a whole.
Posted by blondemike on Feb 7, 2007 at 5:42 PM Ahhh ... the War of 1812.
War of 1812 - Worms Arrogant
(sung to the tune, sort of, of the Battle of New Orleans by Johnny Horton)Oh, come back, proud Canadians
To before you had TV,
No hockey night in Canada,
There was no CBC (Oh, my God!).
In 1812, Madison was mad,
He was the president, you know
He thought he’d tell the British where they ought to go
He thought he’d invade Canada,
He thought that he was tough
Instead we went to Washington….
And burned down all his stuff!And the White House burned, burned, burned,
And we’re the one’s that did it!
It burned, burned, burned,
While the president ran and cried.
It burned, burned, burned,
And things were very historical.
And the Americans ran and cried like a bunch of little babies
Waa waa waah!
In the War of 1812!Us hillbillies from Kentucky,
Dressed in green and red,
Left home to fight in Canada,
But they returned home dead
It’s the only war the Yankees lost, except for Vietnam
And also the Alamo… and the Bay of… ham.
The loser was America,
The winner was ourselves,
So join right in and gloat about the War of 1812And the White House burned, burned, burned,
And we’re the one’s that did it!
It burned, burned, burned,
While the president ran and cried.
It burned, burned, burned,
And things were very historical.
And the Americans ran and cried like a bunch of little babies
Waa waa waah!
In the War of 1812!In 1812, we were just sittin’ around,
Mindin’ our own business, puttin’ crops into the ground.
We heard the soldiers coming and we didn’t like that sound.
So we took a boat to Washington and burned it to the ground.Oh… we… fired our guns, but the Yankees kept-a coming,
There wasn’t quite as many as there was a while ago.
We fired once more and the Yankees started running,
Down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico, oh, oh….
They ran through the snow and they ran through the forest,
They ran through the bushes where the beavers wouldn’t go.
They ran so fast, they forgot to take their culture,
Back to America, and Gulf and TexacoSo, if you go to Washington, its buildings clean and nice,
Bring a pack of matches, and we’ll burn the White House twice!And the White House burned, burned, burned,
But the Americans won’t admit it
It burned, burned, burned,
It burned and burned and burned
It burned, burned, burned,
Now, I bet that made them mad
And the Americans ran and cried like a bunch of little babies
Waa waa waah!
In the War of 1812Maria, good on you! War sucks! The best thing anyone can do is write silly songs about them.
Mike, I wouldn’t call the War of 1812 an American war of self defence. It is my understanding that America intitiated the hostilities and declared war on Britain and Canada.
And Canada whupped America’s ass ;-)
Posted by David in Canuckistan on Feb 7, 2007 at 8:44 PM The war of 1812 was ill conceived. However British troops landed in Washington and burned the White House not Canadians. The British attempted a frontal assault on American troops, French Pirates, and a few Mexicans barricaded behind cotton bales at New Orleans. With bright red coats to shoot at the British lost 2,037 men on the first assault.1262 wounded and 484 missing. The American losses were 13 dead 39 wounded and 19 missing. A good example of the futility of a direct assault on a prepared position Unknown to either side was the fact that the war was over. The treaty of Ghent was signed several weeks before.
Also David the Treaty opened the door for Canada, Great Britain, and American to normalize realtions. The Candian border was demilitarized, trade resumed and Canada and America have lived in relative peace since. Curling is incomprehensible but we like your beer. We like hockey. Some people enjoy Celene Dion. And I from the bottom of my heart would really like to thank you for Pamela Anderson.
Posted by texasindependent on Feb 7, 2007 at 10:32 PM All war is ill conceived.
At the time, Canadians were Britons (in a colonial sense). Canada did not begin to achieve it’s independence from Britain until some decades (and centuries) later.
Tex, curling is incomprehensible to some Canadians too but I am glad you like the beer and hockey.
Posted by David in Canuckistan on Feb 7, 2007 at 11:20 PM We were a British colony once. We just really hated drinking tea. And paying taxes. Much like today.
I agree war is ill concieved. As soon as you have sucessfully disarmed the rest of the planet I will be happy to beat my sword into a plowshare. Until then I serve so hopefully my children won’t have to. Having been to Iraq three times my sincerest wishes are to stifle the complaints from the rest of the planet long enough for Iraq to split into three happy rich countries, and never to see or hear of Iraq again.
Peace through superior firepower…..
Posted by texasindependent on Feb 8, 2007 at 7:32 AM David, you are probably right, Chomsky told me that the US started it. Tex, I am glad that you have now repudiated your Perpetual War For Perpetual Peace War fallacy. Along with your total repudiation of your anti-Arab racism and anti-Islam fanaticism which I have noted today at length on The Spoils of War thread. Preparing endlessly for war is NOT the way to obtain peace. As you have noted at length your culture, the Spanish culture, is the most violent, sexist, racist and homophobic
culture in world history. Your people, Pepito, killed 100 million Indians south of the Rio Grande, 10-35 million Indians north of the Rio Grande as Churchill & Chomsky have documented, 30 million women “witches” in Dark Ages Europe, millions of black cats due to the old Spanish evil Eye superstitution and another 7-8 million natives by the mass murderer Christopher Columbus in Haiti and the Dominican Republic. I also accept your apology for war crimes in Iraq, for the USA killing 750,000 Iraqis, for the racist criminal advocacy of partition and for the genocidal pro-Israel First US foreign policy. You asked if the USA will vacate the 1/3rd of its territory stolen from Mexico, that is the 1/3rd of Mexico’s territory stolen by the USA as Chomsky as documented. The answer is NO. Until you little brown bastards learn to use a flush toilet, wipe your asses after a bowel movement, stop pissing in your rivers and water supplies, stop letting your women become putas and stop your astronomical crime stats, we will have to postpone Reconquista. And no you may NOT suck my big white wiener, Pepito.
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