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More white supremacist industrial military complex criminality….the kind of nonsense gutless wonders like Hardesty scapegoat around endlessly….
Hardesty loves to pontificate extemporaneously in a manner that is the extremity of narcissism , focusing his contemnations on the minuscule involvement of poor people… Whether they’re the unwilling victims of the historical aparthied practiced here in Amerika or whether their unfortunate scenerio is the result of the aforementioned military industrial economic policies, that force poor Latino workers to reestablish the borders that were previously the domains of there own sovereignties…
Hardesty you are a gump ass coward…look at what white people do to the rest of the world….make your excuses…play with them all you want…like a child with a new toy….Your ostentatious numb-skull act , will bite you it the ass….
Amerikan hypocrites like you…run around shouting…NOT IN MY NAME….but when call to the carpet , brought to task…if you will….your punk ass shoutS out…THATS NOT ME…..
Hardesty not only are you a lame excuse of a man…your humane creditials are seriously in question…
Posted by Redhorse on Feb 14, 2007 at 5:38 AM
Whoa!
Does it occur to anyone to question anything here?
This is directly from the article:
Posted by whattheheck on Feb 14, 2007 at 7:36 AM
Redhorse Retarded Negroid, where in the name of Sam Hill do you have me advocating ANY kind of torture ??????????????
As far as war crimes go, in Vietnam MANY of the worst war criminals were BLACK Americans. Have you ever investigated the lovely torture practices of almost all African countries or Haiti ? The Oakland Riders,
renegade cops here, consisted of two Filipinos, one Me Hi Can who got
his beaner ass back to Me Hi Co and ONE white guy, who was married to a black woman. Poor people are destroying our country ALONG with the super rich. I only acknowledge crimes that I commit. And since I do
not commit crimes there’s none to acknowledge. Unlike your buttbuddies Scorpy Doobie AKA Master Bates and WTH and TexASS
Wannabe white beaner fascist, I have NEVER supported Bush or Bush 1 or Reagan or Nixon. I used to know COINTELPRO negroes like you in DC, always louding bashing whitey in public while kissing Charlie’s ass bigtime in private. Do the authorities at St. E’s know how you’re abusing your internet privileges ?
WTH, use your frigging brain for a change ! If the witnesses stepped forward THEY would be prosecuted as enemy agents or some other form of government retaliation. This Administration will stop at nothing.
Would YOU want to be the one coming forward ?
Posted by blondemike on Feb 14, 2007 at 10:00 AM
TheoPaPa…....I most definitely agree…my response was aimed at one specific character….....
Posted by Redhorse on Feb 14, 2007 at 2:01 PM
Hardesty your response is sooo typical…thats why I wrote it like that….fool, cause with your stupid ass,everything is the fault of those people or them….You crack me up Hardesty….Dumb as the day you were born….....You rant about others being responsible….but you are the most irresponsible BASTARD on this ITT thread….
Take responsblity for the evil white bastards that are perpetrating this ungodly bullshit….fix your own house first…..faggot.
Fuck you…and the mother that made you….........
Posted by Redhorse on Feb 14, 2007 at 2:18 PM
The bush administrations’ attempts to have god-like control over these victim/prisoners shows they are truly satanic. Chavez is right, bush is the devil.
Posted by theloneous on Feb 14, 2007 at 2:38 PM
Advocating for the unnecessary surgical sterization of young girls because they are social misfit qualifies….quite frankly , your HATE-FILLED, NERO-MINDED words qualify…..All you can bitch about Hardesty is in some way ,shape or form racist , fascist or duplicitiously inhumane…..
Hardesty if you had the chance ...you would definitely be a lowbrow torturing bastard…the opportunity just hasn’t arrived…..but if it did…you’d jump on it….gleefully….Any person of questionable character like yourself, can’t be trusted….Your score on that political compass test prove that…weren’t you in the fascist range….Later for you faggot…...
Posted by Redhorse on Feb 14, 2007 at 3:05 PM
Ok WTH, I’m beginning to get use to your skeptical reader responses…but lets not be so naive…Look at it this way…if this was not true…with all the Gov’t controlled security at Gitmo…Do you really think this story would get out at all….?
Drugging is not that odd a form of torture…unfortunately…Look , I understand your perspective….but this is not that hard to believe….
If it was a loved one at Gitmo….and lets say….they were able to get this information to you on the humble….would your perspective change from skeptic….to outrage…? Of course it would….
The media outlets…for the most part…probably don’t care…and those that do…are not always in a position to do any direct involvement type intervention…I think you can sleep soundly at night…trusting that the unfortunate truth is that…yes…your Gov’t is involved in some of the most unspeakablely inhumane torture…It may be hard for a honest Abe guy like yourself to stomach( and I say that with respect , not satire ), but this is the truth about your Gov’t….especially this Administration…...What did Oliver North say during the Iran / Contra hearings….” Senator…basically my job is to lie….” This is the mentality that is in effect….
Posted by Redhorse on Feb 14, 2007 at 3:55 PM
WTH, you can neither read nor think straight. I have taken way too much time to rebut your knee-jerk militarist nonarguments and give refs where appropriate. If I was a witness I’d come forward but I aven’t been and the history of whistleblowers in FedGov has not a good one. Actually none of us knows what we’d do until the actual time came. So your bravado here is cheap talk. So WHERE have I been wrong about the Bush Admin ? Give some specifics so I can respond to them. You have not been a principled critic of the Bush Admin so maybe your not the best judge here.
Now Redhorse, do you really “fuck” your mama ? I know the MF phrase is the standard discourse among illiterate black dregs but really dude ! You people are getting bills, not repar checks, BILLS. Cost of your welfare, crime and overall sociopathology. Sterilization for repeat offender teen crackheads is very humanitarian, both for them AND the rest ofsociety. Remember when Jesse Jackson, Sr., recounted how relieved he was to see the young men following him on DC streets at night were white. We all know the feeling. When you pretend to describe me you are actually describing yourself, blood. It’d called projection. Now back to my earlier query, where be that address ? And I’m sorry if you are having a crisis as a self-hating gay. So many of your people are struggling to come out. Come out, brothers ! BTW, what was my political score ? I could never find out.
Posted by blondemike on Feb 14, 2007 at 5:44 PM
Weak…...Hardesty , very , very….weak…
You don’t read so well either FAGGOT….I told you to drop me a line on this ITT thread , next time your SILLY LITTLE BITCHASS comes to DC to visit that SCUM-SUCKING WHORE of a sister you keep bitchin’ about….
Probably the only STANK-ASS PUSSY you ever get is from that LITTLE TREASONOUS SLUT, you call your sister… SKANKY ASS LICKING BITCH that she is…...Fuckin’ her own brother for the MORTGAGE MONEY…Nothin’ but a bunch of LOW-LIFE NASTY INBREED BASTARD….....
Damn Hardesty , just give the woman the money…you ain’t got to PIMP that BITCH…she is your SISTER…..Last time I saw that WHORE scragglin’ up Michigan Ave…she had just got out of some old mans ride , wrestlin’ with that BALDHEADED CHAMP I guess…BITCH was stuffing all kinds of money in her purse…...
WHAT..she gives it all to you….I’m going to start calling you the ” DOWNLOW PIMP DADDY “.........true.
Posted by Redhorse on Feb 14, 2007 at 6:59 PM
“Who’s to blame for America’s new torture techniques?”
(If they ARE really new, which is itself debatable)
The perpetrators, of course, and I don’t mean the functionaries who receive and implement orders to “interrogate.” They’re bad enough, Thoreau’s “men of wood or straw”, for whom turning off the Conscience Subroutine in their CPU is little strain.
But when, not if, instances of torture come to light, the place to go to find those really responsible is up the chain of command.
And the buck stops at 1600 Pennsylvania Av., Washington DC. Big white place right across from Lafayette Park, you can’t miss it. Kinda ostentatious.
Ah wait, I left someone out. Complacent Americans, who concern themselves more with American Idol auditions than they do the harm being done in their name, or in the name of “protecting” them (putting us all more at risk, in reality). They’re to blame also, but indirectly. Directly, there are givers of orders and “deciders”.
(no, one “decider”, just the one CinC).
Posted by Kuya on Feb 15, 2007 at 1:21 AM
So much for the “new American century”. Hasn’t gotten off to what you’d call a brilliant start.
Posted by Kuya on Feb 15, 2007 at 1:27 AM
Redhorse,
Posted by whattheheck on Feb 15, 2007 at 6:57 AM
Redhorse, my sister doesn’t live in DC and never has. My 83 yr old Aunt lives in DC and she has forgotten more than you’ll ever know. Now what is your address again, coward ? I can be in DC in hours. If you don’t want to give it, fine. But please keep your lowlife ghetto rantings to yourself.
WTH, you are so full of naivete. It’s not just a few people that change things, that can help, you have the obtuse attitude that if only the facts can be brought out, presto ! Well the Admin and Rummy dragged their feet for months after the first torture scandals broke out, scandals are often broken out in bits and pieces, look at how long it took Watergate to fully come out, long after Nixon’s election. Lynchings were radically on the decline after 1920. It wasn’t one expose that did it. Schools are more segregated than ever. Given the US Govt’s pattern of lying they are
NOT entitled to the benefit of the doubt. We now have secret courts, secret detentions, secret illegal wiretapping, etc., but all it takes is one hero with guts…..............................Yeah, right. Learn something about how institutions operate. Getting “proof” is not easy as you would know if you were a journalist.
Kuya, You are on target again. Nice to have an intelligent mind here. Personally I’m tired of the other retreads here and having to repeat myself.
Posted by blondemike on Feb 15, 2007 at 10:03 AM
Heck, good post.
yellow journalism
Scandal and sensationalism does make for good , and I use the term loosely, copy but that doesn’t mean it isn’t true. I would like to be more sure about many things but sometimes supposition is all you have to work with.
I guess at least it keeps them off the street.
hehehe
WTH, LOOK YOU FUCKING MORON, WHO THE HELL IS RUNNING GITMO, PELOSI OR KUCINICH OR OBAMA, WHO HAS SHREDDED THE CONSTITUTION WITH ILLEGAL DETENTION FOR YEARS WITHOUT CHARGES AND ILLEGAL WIRETAPPING AND THEN SIGNING RESERVATIONS TO ALL LEGISLATION THAT HE DOESN’T HAVE TO OBEY THE LAW…....IS IT NOAM CHOMSKY ?
David, WTH’s post was NOT good, it’s moronic, what’s wrong with you ? I’ll stack up the war critics on Bush & Iraq versus Limbaugh, et al, any day and unless you are a complete fucking moron like WTH, you will know the answer. The most emotive stuff here comes from rightwingers like WTH, Scorpy Doobie AKA Master Bates, Redwhore The Black Supremacist and other rightwingers. This stupid little shit WTH wants to believe in Bush, in the war, in the military, in FedGov’s goodness, in other words WTH is an insane lunatic. Tired of playing footsie with these rightist thugs. No more Mister Nice Guy.
Posted by blondemike on Feb 15, 2007 at 6:42 PM
Mike, what I liked best about Heck’s post (Feb 15, 2007 at 6:36 PM) was that he was civilized and respectful in his response. And he managed to add some humour to make me laugh when some of the hateful dialogue (Redhorse vs. Mike) on this thread has made me so sad that I feel like weeping.
Not only that but he did make some valid points as well. For instance ... Facts are better than supposition. But, as I noted, in the absence of cold, hard facts sometimes supposition is what we are left with and, as I noted, simply being an accusation or supposition does not mean that it is not true. (My apologies for repeating myself but apparently you overlooked everything after good post.)
I offered Heck constructive criticism in my response for the purpose of initiating meaningful discussion and even if you don’t (or can’t) appreciate it I hope that he does.
“you will know the answer”
I’m sorry ... what was the question?
“No more Mister Nice Guy.”
Now that is funny. It’s good to see you adding some irony to your comments.
All joking aside, Mike, I don’t like the war (or torture) either. Bush, and many others, are war criminals and I pray for the day when justice will be served on them.
I understand that when dealing with issues like the one currently under discussion here that it is difficult to remain calm, cool and collected but if we can then our cause will be better served.
If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you
You’re probably stoned
And they all know it too!
Another good post David-but this was my redeux of Kipling’s first stanza after seeing it played out over the years. Always thought that leaf on your flag looked familiar-you Canucks!
Civil? As in civil war? If you can get these guys to interact politely with one another you should stop wasting your time here. Your talents are much needed in Israel and Iraq. “If you can dream and not make dreams your master…”?
Posted by recursive prophet on Feb 15, 2007 at 11:07 PM
WTH…..again I understand the perspective you represent , but sensationalisms and emotions aside…I really believe these accusations are not hard to believe….Sense we are all quote great minds, remember….” Absolute power corrupts , absolutely….”
Now, I can’t think of any circumstance where absolute power is in effect more blatantly than a situation like GITMO…All you need is one or two individuals, and a ciulture of silence….
David…good to hear from you….I see you are as always the
peacemaker…
Posted by Redhorse on Feb 16, 2007 at 3:19 AM
David, WTH has always been very civilized and respectful about giving the Bush AdMin and the US Govt the benefit of the doubt but since these are NOT civilized people I do not admire that trait. WTH’s trick of comparing people like Chomsky with the Limbaughs reminds me of Twain’s comment about a phony centrist knucklehead of his day in making false analogies—-“one horse, one rabbit.” So those of us who have opposed this mass murdering crew are as bad as those who supported them. NO THANKS.
Posted by blondemike on Feb 16, 2007 at 9:46 AM
Arpie, thanks. Maybe I am dreaming ...
Redhorse, good to see you too (and the horse you rode in on.) Peace!
Mike, I read through this thread again and can’t find where Heck mentioned Chomsky at all. Could you pinpoint it for me please? Maybe you are referring to his remarks about Rush Limbo and the cheerleaders on either side?
“So those of us who have opposed this mass murdering crew are as bad as those who supported them.”
I think you are making a rash inference here and I hope Heck is back soon to clarify his position and respond to your remarks.
David, I never wrote that he mentioned Chomsky, if you read his piece you will see that he blames the critics of Bush as well as the supporters and if you read enough of his crap you will see he rarely criticizes Bush except for not being hawkish enough and sending in many more troops to Iraq. I thought the irony in my rhetorical question to him was evident.
Posted by blondemike on Feb 16, 2007 at 1:04 PM
“It’s all a dream
Light passing by in a stream
and there’s you and I on a beam
Speeding through the Universe
Thinking is the best way to travel
Cold hearted orb that rules the night;
red is grey, and yellow white.
But we decide which is right;
and which is an illusion.”
MB
Heck mentioned Chomsky on the Spoils thread David. You know how these Chat Room brawls spill over into other forums. Maybe they are all sockpuppets of Theo’s, conducting an alternate reality game in which you and I are the ones being played, to learn from our responses. And I’m not so sure about you. Heard so many rumors. From you’re a ‘troll whisperer,’ an Islamic propogandist learning how to negotiate with irrational infidels, and a novelist writing a story about how cyberspace has been taken over by those creating online theatre by scripting various dramas. Will all we say here appear in you book? Or is this just a link that will take us to the next loop?
Posted by Eric Blair on Feb 16, 2007 at 1:30 PM
David, Redhorse, BM,
You
Posted by whattheheck on Feb 16, 2007 at 2:29 PM
So Chomsky’s in the same cognitive category as Limbaugh ????!!!! And Chomsky has spent the last 40 years worrying about his image ? Whew ! On the historical record of the US Govt, Dems or Reps, they do not deserve the benefit of the doubt. Their level of mendacious criminality is such that they are guilty until proven innocent. Just the reverse of normal justice because we are dealing with a totally abnormal gang of liars and mass murderers. Funny how easily people like WTH are to accuse official enemies even though he’s seen little proof but only heard media agit-prop. But we give “ourselves” the bennies of the doubts. NO WAY !
Posted by blondemike on Feb 16, 2007 at 2:41 PM
“I never wrote that he mentioned Chomsky”
Then what’s this, Mike ....
“WTH’s trick of comparing people like Chomsky with the Limbaughs”
Heck, do you blame the critics of Bush as well as the supporters? And for what specifically? Is this your answer here re: witnessing illegal behavior; “I maintain they are as guilty as anyone for not bringing it to an end.? Isn’t speaking out about it the first step to doing just that?
Furthermore, Heck, you say that “what could have been an improvement the Middle East has been terribly botched” . I assume you are referring to the illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq? How could it have been improved? More war crimes (rhetorical question dripping with irony)? I don’t see how things could have been better except had there been no invasion at all.
Eric, good to see you again. I see the In You More Than Yourself thread is spilling over into this one.
I am the Lizard King. I can do anything.— J. Morrison
It turns out he did mention Chomsky in other threads as Eric noted but I was being ironic, David ! Substitute twenty other names in my sentence about the Bush Admin, I was asking WTH if he thought Chomsky was the one wiretapping illegally, holding citizens without trial, issuing signing statements to all Congressional bill, etc. I wrote “people LIKE Chomsky” because WTH was using a broad brush against the left——-christalmighty, Davey, your denser than he is !
Posted by blondemike on Feb 16, 2007 at 3:24 PM
I am just trying to understand, Mike. Thank you for the clarification.
And thanks for your kind words (more irony).
“I have made a ceaseless effort not to ridicule, not to bewail, not to scorn human actions, but to understand them.”
—Baruch Spinoza
WTH…fair enough , I still think this is pretty much a ” no brainer “....but your point about due process…does make sense…
Although , you can bet your bottom dollar , those who are prosecuted , if they are prosecuted….will be the scapegoats….and the real culprits will get off untouched…run for political office…and the whole dog and pony show….goes round and round…...
I generally find Chomsky to be a qiute interesting fellow…...I think Amy Goodman is an excellent journalist…if you can , check out her program online….DemocracyNow.org…..........
Hardesty thinks everybody is a racist or a fascist or some strange combination there of…I think he is the most insecure xenophobic moron to date on this ITT site…but then , I am a rookie at this…....
Posted by Redhorse on Feb 16, 2007 at 5:04 PM
Okay gang, I thought to chime in.
WTH: As for drugging in Gitmo, a few released detainees have asserted as much.
A 2006 UN Comission on Human Rights report, ‘Situation of detainees at Guant
Posted by TheoPapathanasis on Feb 17, 2007 at 3:04 AM
Papa Theo wrote:
One should not be surprised in the least to learn the military drugs detainees. It has done the same to its own soldiers. [insert-not a fraction of what its soldiers do to themselves] (See the 1994 report by the U.S. Senate Committee on Veterans Affairs, Is Military Research Hazardous to Veterans Health? Lessons Spanning Half a Century.) Its appalling, really.
[Shocked. Shocked I say! Heres a thought. Ever get sodium pentathol at the dentist? Quite a nice high actually, and it does remove barriers to things one normally wouldnt say; like “hey Doc, any chance I can get some of this to go?” Seems a far more humane way to extract info than water-boarding.]
Of course Id agree one should question what one reads, especially when about this sort of thing. And that is precisely what guys like Chomsky do. I find it strange Americas most famous critic of foreign policy is often discounted as a simple opiner [its how he’s portrayed by corporate media] when his analyses are almost always cold, referenced, factual. Chomsky does his homework and it is that research that gives his criticisms their force.
Good post as always Papa T-but I must tell you I was disappointed you bailed on the In ‘You forum.’ I suspect the best way to grok what is happening around us is to examine first the medium, then the message. Likely Chomsky would agree.
Have you considered the possibility Gitmo might in fact have served a very beneficent purpose in a world where the Law of Inverted Intentions rules? Seems a sizable majority- 70% in Europe-now believes this country represents the greatest threat to world peace. If this perception is correct, one could certainly argue that Gitmo has been one of the beacons of our hypocrisy, its light seen round the world. The very existence of this ‘beyond any law’ camp has given radical Islam a propaganda tool even all the oil money we send the Wahhabi’s via our thoughtless consumption could have bought.
David- don’t you remember we learned some time ago Mike is a ‘mole troll?’ He gets paid for each insult he can generate in this and God knows (and maybe not even she) how many other sites. A true professional, that man. He can bait people here repeatedly by peppering his scatology with a few insightfully relevant suppositions. And not only do they become exposed to some different ideas and incited to write out their own, but they get to expiate their vile in the process! I don’t know if that Institute that employs him is federally funded, but if so its tax money well spent for a change. I would bet you Mike alone is responsible for generating nearly HALF of all that is written in this site.
Don’t you see if you were successful and got Mike to stop being Mike, this would become a ghost website? Obviously the drama is required. Why would you seek to reduce his income while depriving so many others the chance to take out their hostility in cyberspace instead of venting on those around them, who are not being paid for their abuse and have no choice in regard to accepting or responding to it? Wake up David, you’ve been dreaming again!
Posted by recursive prophet on Feb 17, 2007 at 1:21 PM
RP, your statement about me is totally false and libelous. Better give proof or retract. Your a lowlife, granted, that still doesn’t give you a right to invent lies.
Posted by blondemike on Feb 17, 2007 at 1:54 PM
Heck, thanks for taking the time to answer my questions. You asked a few yourself and I hope that my answer to the following question will suffice as an answer for all.
Would you ever favor overthrowing a dictatorship by force?
Only if I lived in one and only if it was time to say “enough”.
And, personally, likely not even then.
Blondemike recently wrote:
RP, your statement about me is totally false and libelous. Better give proof or retract. Your a lowlife, granted, that still doesn’t give you a right to invent lies.
Ah Mike. Sad how memory slips away with time. I cant even remember when my blonde hair turned gray, or where it was I mentioned you being in the employ of a psychiatric institute as an experiment to see if people could be goaded into a therapeutic expunging of their hostility by engaging with a troll that was really a mole, online. But I did find the thread where you complimented me on discovering your secret.
You wrote in “Spoils of War”:
RP, how did you find out about the psychology institute ? Good detective work, dude ! I agree that there are three main groupings with plenty of offshoots with varying characteristics. Our difference here may be more apparent than real. The nature v. nurture thing is boring to me because they interact with one another rather than being either/or. Of course in this retarded country 70% don’t believe in evolution but in Jeezez.
Should have known it wasn’t a good idea to mention it again for obvious reasons. Sorry. Please accept my apology. Anyway, guess the cat I let out of the bag here was Schrodingers, as it hasn’t discouraged your regular customers.
To make up for it I will put a couple insults in the kitty, but it wont be easy as I hold you in such high regard. Some might consider me a pathetic lowlife because of you being my hero, but I suspect they would be just projecting their own self loathing. I accept your knowledgeable judgment, as you are always right, mostly. To be totally honest, a trailer park would be a big step up for me. I am a high school drop out, and mouth breathing bottom feeder. My admission shows that once again, as usual, your conjecture regarding another users reality was right on the mark. But you should read my last post again. Far be it from me to in any way question your efforts here. I think you are the most significant member of this entire site, Kurt aside.
Mike-you don’t have blonde hair any more, and you occasionally prevaricate! There! I know it doesn’t match some of your regulars level of passion, but I hope it will qualify as an add to you monthly bonus. Keep up the great work, and dont waste time flaming those like myself and David who simply admire you too much to respond in kind. Personally it flatters me one such as you would even deign to disparage one such as I, being so far below you on every level. You are awesome dude.
Posted by recursive prophet on Feb 17, 2007 at 6:41 PM
Hi again recursive: Sorry about abandoning the Zizek discussion. I probably got distracted.
As for Gitmo being “one of the beacons of our hypocrisy,” I’ll agree with you up to a point. The way I see things, because X-Ray symbolizes so much, it can be shut down with great fanfare, showing the world “we” finally did something about it, put our house in order, etc. However, I, a bit of cynic, can imagine this being done in the interest of PR. The same disgusting policies can be continued elsewhere (and that was gist of my comment on the recent ITT article about closing Gitmo).
BTW, I don’t think it’s in any way odd to consider the US a threat to world peace, and for the simple reason that “we” just started a vicious war.
WTH: I agree. There’s often way too much slanging and not enough scruple around here for my tastes. So much so that it sometimes makes meaningful discussion next to impossible.
Trial by media? If I recall correctly the idea of trial by media was first forwarded by Thatcher, referring to the 1998 Gibraltar IRA fiasco—and, if I am not mistaken, it turned out that the media was right in condemning the SAS action.
That aside, I don’t think any educated or intelligent person can be opposed to “submitting evidence and testimony or proof of some kind.” And that is why, when making my points, I tend to reference documents (not ideologically driven articles) whenever possible. That’s just common sense. Facts speak for themselves and it’s through debate and discussion that we winnow sense from nonsense, enabling us to make our political asseverations.
Posted by TheoPapathanasis on Feb 18, 2007 at 5:26 AM
the edit thingee’s not working… ‘88 in Gibraltar, not ‘98.
Posted by TheoPapathanasis on Feb 18, 2007 at 5:29 AM
Recursiveprophet…..I liked what you have to say, for the most part….but Hardesty ( BM ), serves few purposes on this site other than the inflation of his own dysfuntional ego-centric personality disorders….Ever heard the statement…...” They’s a FUNGUS among us “.......That’s Hardesty…just an anal-retentive pest….to ostentatiously xenophobic to heal any of our underexpressed, pent up vile or outrage…..
I will admit that his outrageously bigoted statements and or generalities , have enlisted responses from the Redhorse that normally would not have been made…But those reponses have only been directed at the phobe is question…and have done little if anything to broaden my perspective on life or world affairs….
If anything Hardesty’s tyrannical behavior based only in innuendo , has sewn deeper the seeds of distrust and is an impediment to any dialog that would possibly bring about positive change….
But thats just one Horses opinion…...
Posted by Redhorse on Feb 18, 2007 at 5:37 AM
Until I am able to fix my edit function….what I meant to write was….There’s a FUNGUS among us…....not…...They’s a FUNGUS among us…..
Either way Mike Hardesty is a gump…with sparse insightful revelations..I also feel that Hardesty is jealous or envious of people such as Chomsky…based on the fact of the attention their individual analysis gets as opposed to Hardesty’s trolling deficiencies….
His own petty little fears…disallow his own progress , but his ego won’t let him admit this short-fall in integrity…sooo he scapegoats his insecurities away on others…..
Posted by Redhorse on Feb 18, 2007 at 5:57 AM
TheoPaPa….Curiously…what nation are you posting from….? I am unable to discern your flags designation….........
Posted by Redhorse on Feb 18, 2007 at 6:28 AM
Theopapa and Redhorse,
I’m on a Mac which needs a browser upgrade and have assumed that’s why I cannot edit. Has this just recently changed for you? It sounds as though you have been able before.
Posted by whattheheck on Feb 18, 2007 at 6:54 AM
WTH…Damn interesting post….but this truck has been run over before….
This whole operation was a hoax…from start to never ending finish…it was a hoax…a criminally inspired hoax..for blood money…international ( FEAR ) power,etc…...All of your moralisms make sense on paper…on paper , but when the truth of the situation , runs up against those moral maxims…thats where it gets extremely problematic.
No…it was wrong to attempt to overthrow a supposed or actual….so called dictator / cash cow business partner because he ( Saddam ) dicided to no longer honor the US dollar, in favor of the increasingly popular Euro…No , the US should not be engaged in terror inducing behavior on the citizens of another nation…especially when the US was so instrumental in the creation of said dictatorship….
You can’t correct these mistakes this way…the world just doesn’t work that way…humane nature doesn’t work that way…all you get ..is what you got…A bigger mess…more instability at home and abroad….Remember Gen.Smedley Darlington Butlers words…” War Is A Racket.”....always is , always has been….......Now a revolution is something different , true revolution don’t happen like this…they are grass-root orientative…......
Posted by Redhorse on Feb 18, 2007 at 7:05 AM
Yeah WTH…I have a Windows98….but have been having problems as of late( have been told that my high-speed connection is the basic source of my problems..that eventually I need to upgrade….fair enough )...I’ve also been running Spybot , to clean out some problems , this is when the edit function on this site went out….Spybot gives me access to a log of everything that has been removed…Now if I can just figure out which function it was that caused the problem..?.Additionally my border on this page is fucked also…but the computer runs better over-all…
So…the Horse must make due for now…........
Posted by Redhorse on Feb 18, 2007 at 7:20 AM
WTH…..Basically BM…Mike Hardesty seems to be ,who he says he is…A extremely confused , wannabe or actual free-lance writer…living in one of Oakland, Ca., black communities….Certian things he has to say…jive out…but other than that….everything else he has to say…comes across as some confused bigoted rhetorical bullshit…But I think he is true on his idenity…..
Posted by Redhorse on Feb 18, 2007 at 11:44 AM
RP, I have the lightest of light blonde hair and I never lie. Again, your totally off base.
WTH, you shouldn’t confuse the few same posters whom I’ve rebutted at length on this site with everyone. I’ve never lied, Bush has. We did oust Hussein with a much smaller force and have suffered over 3,000 US military casualties, richly deserved, and 650,000 Iraqi civilian casualties, totally undeserved. The Washington Redskins can beat a kindergarten team too, so what ? I am ashamed to be an American but since the US Empire dominates the world, we have to stay here and fight it, as Guevara said we are the fighters in the belly of the beast. We had no right to invade Iraq anymore than the USSR had to invade Afghanistan or Hungary or the US Empire had the right to invade South Vietnam. Bottom line, WTH, your an apologist for the planet’s leading Rogue Nation and that right v. left jazz is irrelevant besides that fact.
RH, I have known and corresponded with Chomsky for 22 years, have often agreed with him and never felt bested by him in our debates when we disagreed. I never had any great desire to be a public figure so my alleged envy is nonexistent. I’ve noticed that psychobabble is the religion of the libs much like Jeezez is to the cons. I’m a follower of Dr. Thomas Szasz and believe mental illness is a bigger myth than the “holocaust” so please pardon me if I am unimpressed by your psychologizing here. Also I could easily state that my racial generalizations are a response to yours rather than vice-versa. I am an actual freelance writer and even published in The Washington Post Sunday Editorial Outlook Section in late Oct 1993 on WPFW, the Pacifica station in DC, Dueling On The Dial, is the title and is accessible on the web. Also half a dozen times in Z Magazine, three with Nina and we also did one for The Progressive, I did two reviews for the old Commie National Guardian in 89 and 90, one the only US review of a major Chomsky book according to Noam himself. Then a dozen pieces for the left Anderson Valley Advertiser in Mendocino and two for the East Bay Express, nothing since 2000. It’s very avocational for me because I make my living in financial management. Born in DC in late 44.
Posted by blondemike on Feb 18, 2007 at 1:31 PM
Denial is the first sign of a problem…All your ” professional shit ” means nothing to the Redhorse…you’re still a misguided xenophobe , with no understanding of half the shit you babble about….You also have a convenient ablity for amnesia….especially when dealing with issues concerning race and class…...Other then that…you are a throughly self-absorbed , ego-centered moron.., who claims of having no desire for public recognition….seems at odds with your most recent post…( more personal bullshit that one does not care or need to know….)One thing is for sure….Redhorse is incline to wonder what would happen to your professional and personal contacts , if the bigoted provocations you have mastered on this site where made public…Could you really handle the scrutiny , it’s one thing to pen bigotry in relative anonymity , another to wear it as a badge or marker for all to see…..I am a member of Pacifica , WPFW.FM , and I am sure that their management would not approve of your opinions , and furthermore would disavow any involvement with you professionally or socially…So as far as your contention that you never lie, you have to lie , in order to be associated with these individuals in a progressive forum…Obviously you have misrepresented yourself and your views, in order to be taken with a measure of seriousness…WPFW doesn’t censor commentary,,,but neither do they promote your kind of sociopathic nonsense…So in short…Hardesty..you ARE a disingenuous lying SOB…....
Posted by Redhorse on Feb 18, 2007 at 3:07 PM
Szasz is just another smoke screen for your denial complex….Didn’t this guy Szasz advocate for personal freedoms in relation to culture and social values….something that you tend to forget when penning all your bigoted rhetoric….Scientology…...hahahahahahaha….recycled mythology….done over as some new way of life…hahahahahahahaha…Like I said…you’re just a scared little moron , trying to justify your miserable existence….hahahahahaha….What a joke…Tom Cruis’in thru life ...eeh ol’boy..hahahahahaha…I can’t stop laughin’...Scientologist bullshit….hahahahaha….You are too much Hardesty….too much indeed….....hahahahahahaha….etc.
Posted by Redhorse on Feb 18, 2007 at 3:55 PM
So now I get it Hardesty…you’re just a phony bastard…that doesn’t know it yet…..What a gump….........the ’ toon that keeps on ’ toonin’.....
Yes…’ toon is short for cartoon…cause you’re definitely out of the funny pages…..........Scientology…hahahaha….moron.
Posted by Redhorse on Feb 18, 2007 at 4:01 PM
Posted by blondemike on Feb 18, 2007 at 2:31 PM
Good post, Mike.
Great post Mike! And if truth be told I think you are being modest. Now for all of your desciples out there who just havent realized yet how inportant you are to them, I would like to propose my own poll. And in addition to the mini-bio in your last post, I would ask others to name one other user that has been as open about sharing his real identity!
Who do you believe Blondemike really is?
A: The multi-dimensional Sage of Oakland whos Gonzo stye is the main draw to this site.
B: An unsung hero in the struggle to push the envelope of intellectual tolerance.
C: A warrior in the cause of creating ungarnished honesty in online dialectic.
D: All or none of the above.
WTH-if you didn
Posted by recursive prophet on Feb 18, 2007 at 9:20 PM
RP…I couldn’t disagree with you more on this one…..Hardesty holds no fascination to the Redhorse…unfortunately…his pompous bullshiter act is all to common in DC….and I suspect his neighbors in Oakland have become weary of his ostentatious aryan act….His trivial responses to the realities that comfront the Black community are not seen as ‘’ witty “or ” insightful ” only those of a nero-minded bigot…..
Posted by Redhorse on Feb 19, 2007 at 3:27 AM
Actually you are correct on one point…I would not technically classify this moron Hardesty as a racist….he’s not that powerful…but a lowbrow bigot….yes….Yes…Hardesty is a proud card carrying bigot…and uses all that euro-centered justificational bullshiter literature he loves to boast about as some kind of psuedo-intellectual excuse for his indeterminately incoherent belief systems…..
Posted by Redhorse on Feb 19, 2007 at 3:39 AM
Now what I am interested in knowing from you RP , is…you said..”..It has been my experience those how believe cultural strife is based solely on superficial prejudice ( ex.skin color ) are mostly those who had little direct experience interecting with them as a minority within….”
Who is this ” them “, that they have had little experience interacting with…..white folks….black folks…..?.
Additionally , what is so superficial about pre-judging people…thats the basis of the racist mentality…..too PRE-JUDGE…
The superficiality is not in the stars…it is in your mind….
You seem like a decent guy RP…WAKE UP….!!!
Posted by Redhorse on Feb 19, 2007 at 4:03 AM
Redhorse, whooooaaaa ! What a fearsome public bowel movement you have unleashed ! There’s not much to respond to because it’s all ad hominems with no cognitive content. On WPFW I was writing about them for The Post, I never said I was a member. As far as my neighbors go we all mind our own business and as regards the few criminal ones we get the police involved. Believe me I could care less what they think. I think your impotent rage is precisely because I do not fit in that little right wing box. At one time I did support KPFA out here in Berkeley but I got sick of their hate whitey campaign and incessant apologias for the black criminal class. Funny thing, horse, I’m finding more blacks who agree with me all the time. How’s that outpatient treatment at St. E’s coming along ? I was worried about you being homeless after they closed the DC General psych ward.
Thanks, RP and thanks, David. Appreciate the feedback even though I disagree with much of it.
Posted by blondemike on Feb 19, 2007 at 9:14 AM
Ad hominem….poor BM ,..reduced to stealing the Redhorses insults to get by…..Damn I’m good..this bastard is 3000 miles away, and yet…the Horse can still pick his pocket…..
Wave to your fans Hardesty…what are you now…another Howard Stern…..! ! !
Posted by Redhorse on Feb 19, 2007 at 1:29 PM
I’m on the balcony waving to them now…..........One of my first cousins in the DC PD, Richard Hardesty, is the guy who tackled Hinckley after his botched assassination attempt in March, 1981. They tried to keep him out of the PD claiming he was a racist but he got on and has been busting heads ever since. Yeah, I know bout the pickpocket charges, horse, Dickie got me yo’ rap shot. Longer than my dick.
Posted by blondemike on Feb 19, 2007 at 2:13 PM
Well…..sense there is no rap sheet…I guess that would mean you are a dickless nonfucking bastard…...eeh.
Posted by Redhorse on Feb 19, 2007 at 3:39 PM
Guys, knock it off, please.
Redhorse, I think you meant to spell SINCE but since you can’t spell that it makes it very hard to get through life, doesn’t it ? What affirmative action program got you working as a psych ? This is scary. We need to veto affirmative action for pilots and surgeons. What’s yo’ hood in DC, bro ? Give me another high five ! Oh and eh is spelled eh. Only one E. I still don’t get your references to cartoons ? Is that your main TV entertainment ? I outgrew them at 9 but some of you are kinda slow, right ? Dickie tells me you DO have a sheet, he’s even busted you himself. Are you in the Anacostia hood ? I ask that because I know you have rotated between the DC Gen psych ward when they were open and the DC Jail, both next to each other there in the Southeast jungle. St. E’s is on Nichols Ave,SE. Maybe yo’ hinepos ain’t wrapped up too tight, bro.’
Posted by blondemike on Feb 19, 2007 at 5:29 PM
Yeah….the edit function does’t work….
I guess you got to be one anal-compulsive dickhead to obsess over the spelling of eeeh….?
See Hardesty…this is the kind of shithead response that started this whole disagreement in the first place…Redhorse didn’t insult you first…it was your fucked up rhetoric…straight off the bat…See RP and David…unless you actually believe this crap Hardesty rants about…the entertanment value is of extremely limited value…...
Posted by Redhorse on Feb 19, 2007 at 6:00 PM
See if I don’t catch the mistake before I hit the submit function….I can’t edit.. “.Yeah…...the edit function doesn’t work….....”
Posted by Redhorse on Feb 19, 2007 at 6:05 PM
The edit function ? Nice try, clown. The fact is that you can’t spell, you can’t write a proper sentence or paragraph, you can’t read coherently and you can’t think. If you go to the beginning of our exchanges you will see that all the original hate & hostility came from you.
Posted by blondemike on Feb 20, 2007 at 5:08 PM
I would be interested in anyone’s comments on this article. Is the only difference with the U.S. system that we tell everything to the world? I had not heard any of these European tactics before.
————————————————-
http://www.opinionjournal.com/wsj/?id=110009712
GLOBAL VIEW
The Napoleonic Code is more conducive to counterterrorism than the U.S. Constitution.
BY BRET STEPHENS Sunday, February 25, 2007
Posted by whattheheck on Feb 25, 2007 at 8:53 AM
All the Police Staters love it, your presumed guilty till proven innocent.
Louisiana has it but I don’t know how it jibes with the Bill of Rights.
Posted by blondemike on Feb 26, 2007 at 12:30 PM
Mike,
How long have they been living under these rules? Was there any resistance?
Posted by whattheheck on Feb 26, 2007 at 2:38 PM
WTH, good questions, wish I had definitive answers. I think Louisiana has had the Napoleonic Code from its beginning. Jim Garrison, the former DA in Orleans Parish thought there were a lot of problems with it. The very concept would seem to conflict with the US Constitution. Probably should do more research here.
Posted by blondemike on Feb 26, 2007 at 4:18 PM
(I got a blacklisted warning so I brokeup a url)
.In 1963 when the Schools of America began the use of Kubark in Latin America, which was the same year Scientology introduced the “Alice in Wonderland” technique.
$cientology political action committee
(PAC (yeah a charitable lobby) named CSR trying to
detox VETERANS USING KUBARK counterintelligence.
http ://www.floridacsr.org/index- 1.html
Posted by Lermanetics on Jul 23, 2008 at 8:16 PM
Page 1 of 1 pages
SAVE 53% OFFTHE NEWSSTAND PRICE!
Reader Comments
More white supremacist industrial military complex criminality….the kind of nonsense gutless wonders like Hardesty scapegoat around endlessly….
Hardesty loves to pontificate extemporaneously in a manner that is the extremity of narcissism , focusing his contemnations on the minuscule involvement of poor people… Whether they’re the unwilling victims of the historical aparthied practiced here in Amerika or whether their unfortunate scenerio is the result of the aforementioned military industrial economic policies, that force poor Latino workers to reestablish the borders that were previously the domains of there own sovereignties…
Hardesty you are a gump ass coward…look at what white people do to the rest of the world….make your excuses…play with them all you want…like a child with a new toy….Your ostentatious numb-skull act , will bite you it the ass….
Amerikan hypocrites like you…run around shouting…NOT IN MY NAME….but when call to the carpet , brought to task…if you will….your punk ass shoutS out…THATS NOT ME…..
Hardesty not only are you a lame excuse of a man…your humane creditials are seriously in question…
Jos
Whoa!
Does it occur to anyone to question anything here?
This is directly from the article:
Redhorse Retarded Negroid, where in the name of Sam Hill do you have me advocating ANY kind of torture ??????????????
As far as war crimes go, in Vietnam MANY of the worst war criminals were BLACK Americans. Have you ever investigated the lovely torture practices of almost all African countries or Haiti ? The Oakland Riders,
renegade cops here, consisted of two Filipinos, one Me Hi Can who got
his beaner ass back to Me Hi Co and ONE white guy, who was married to a black woman. Poor people are destroying our country ALONG with the super rich. I only acknowledge crimes that I commit. And since I do
not commit crimes there’s none to acknowledge. Unlike your buttbuddies Scorpy Doobie AKA Master Bates and WTH and TexASS
Wannabe white beaner fascist, I have NEVER supported Bush or Bush 1 or Reagan or Nixon. I used to know COINTELPRO negroes like you in DC, always louding bashing whitey in public while kissing Charlie’s ass bigtime in private. Do the authorities at St. E’s know how you’re abusing your internet privileges ?
WTH, use your frigging brain for a change ! If the witnesses stepped forward THEY would be prosecuted as enemy agents or some other form of government retaliation. This Administration will stop at nothing.
Would YOU want to be the one coming forward ?
TheoPaPa…....I most definitely agree…my response was aimed at one specific character….....
Hardesty your response is sooo typical…thats why I wrote it like that….fool, cause with your stupid ass,everything is the fault of those people or them….You crack me up Hardesty….Dumb as the day you were born….....You rant about others being responsible….but you are the most irresponsible BASTARD on this ITT thread….
Take responsblity for the evil white bastards that are perpetrating this ungodly bullshit….fix your own house first…..faggot.
Fuck you…and the mother that made you….........
BM,
The bush administrations’ attempts to have god-like control over these victim/prisoners shows they are truly satanic. Chavez is right, bush is the devil.
Advocating for the unnecessary surgical sterization of young girls because they are social misfit qualifies….quite frankly , your HATE-FILLED, NERO-MINDED words qualify…..All you can bitch about Hardesty is in some way ,shape or form racist , fascist or duplicitiously inhumane…..
Hardesty if you had the chance ...you would definitely be a lowbrow torturing bastard…the opportunity just hasn’t arrived…..but if it did…you’d jump on it….gleefully….Any person of questionable character like yourself, can’t be trusted….Your score on that political compass test prove that…weren’t you in the fascist range….Later for you faggot…...
Ok WTH, I’m beginning to get use to your skeptical reader responses…but lets not be so naive…Look at it this way…if this was not true…with all the Gov’t controlled security at Gitmo…Do you really think this story would get out at all….?
Drugging is not that odd a form of torture…unfortunately…Look , I understand your perspective….but this is not that hard to believe….
If it was a loved one at Gitmo….and lets say….they were able to get this information to you on the humble….would your perspective change from skeptic….to outrage…? Of course it would….
The media outlets…for the most part…probably don’t care…and those that do…are not always in a position to do any direct involvement type intervention…I think you can sleep soundly at night…trusting that the unfortunate truth is that…yes…your Gov’t is involved in some of the most unspeakablely inhumane torture…It may be hard for a honest Abe guy like yourself to stomach( and I say that with respect , not satire ), but this is the truth about your Gov’t….especially this Administration…...What did Oliver North say during the Iran / Contra hearings….” Senator…basically my job is to lie….” This is the mentality that is in effect….
WTH, you can neither read nor think straight. I have taken way too much time to rebut your knee-jerk militarist nonarguments and give refs where appropriate. If I was a witness I’d come forward but I aven’t been and the history of whistleblowers in FedGov has not a good one. Actually none of us knows what we’d do until the actual time came. So your bravado here is cheap talk. So WHERE have I been wrong about the Bush Admin ? Give some specifics so I can respond to them. You have not been a principled critic of the Bush Admin so maybe your not the best judge here.
Now Redhorse, do you really “fuck” your mama ? I know the MF phrase is the standard discourse among illiterate black dregs but really dude ! You people are getting bills, not repar checks, BILLS. Cost of your welfare, crime and overall sociopathology. Sterilization for repeat offender teen crackheads is very humanitarian, both for them AND the rest ofsociety. Remember when Jesse Jackson, Sr., recounted how relieved he was to see the young men following him on DC streets at night were white. We all know the feeling. When you pretend to describe me you are actually describing yourself, blood. It’d called projection. Now back to my earlier query, where be that address ? And I’m sorry if you are having a crisis as a self-hating gay. So many of your people are struggling to come out. Come out, brothers ! BTW, what was my political score ? I could never find out.
Weak…...Hardesty , very , very….weak…
You don’t read so well either FAGGOT….I told you to drop me a line on this ITT thread , next time your SILLY LITTLE BITCHASS comes to DC to visit that SCUM-SUCKING WHORE of a sister you keep bitchin’ about….
Probably the only STANK-ASS PUSSY you ever get is from that LITTLE TREASONOUS SLUT, you call your sister… SKANKY ASS LICKING BITCH that she is…...Fuckin’ her own brother for the MORTGAGE MONEY…Nothin’ but a bunch of LOW-LIFE NASTY INBREED BASTARD….....
Damn Hardesty , just give the woman the money…you ain’t got to PIMP that BITCH…she is your SISTER…..Last time I saw that WHORE scragglin’ up Michigan Ave…she had just got out of some old mans ride , wrestlin’ with that BALDHEADED CHAMP I guess…BITCH was stuffing all kinds of money in her purse…...
WHAT..she gives it all to you….I’m going to start calling you the ” DOWNLOW PIMP DADDY “.........true.
“Who’s to blame for America’s new torture techniques?”
(If they ARE really new, which is itself debatable)
The perpetrators, of course, and I don’t mean the functionaries who receive and implement orders to “interrogate.” They’re bad enough, Thoreau’s “men of wood or straw”, for whom turning off the Conscience Subroutine in their CPU is little strain.
But when, not if, instances of torture come to light, the place to go to find those really responsible is up the chain of command.
And the buck stops at 1600 Pennsylvania Av., Washington DC. Big white place right across from Lafayette Park, you can’t miss it. Kinda ostentatious.
Ah wait, I left someone out. Complacent Americans, who concern themselves more with American Idol auditions than they do the harm being done in their name, or in the name of “protecting” them (putting us all more at risk, in reality). They’re to blame also, but indirectly. Directly, there are givers of orders and “deciders”.
(no, one “decider”, just the one CinC).
So much for the “new American century”. Hasn’t gotten off to what you’d call a brilliant start.
Redhorse,
Redhorse, my sister doesn’t live in DC and never has. My 83 yr old Aunt lives in DC and she has forgotten more than you’ll ever know. Now what is your address again, coward ? I can be in DC in hours. If you don’t want to give it, fine. But please keep your lowlife ghetto rantings to yourself.
WTH, you are so full of naivete. It’s not just a few people that change things, that can help, you have the obtuse attitude that if only the facts can be brought out, presto ! Well the Admin and Rummy dragged their feet for months after the first torture scandals broke out, scandals are often broken out in bits and pieces, look at how long it took Watergate to fully come out, long after Nixon’s election. Lynchings were radically on the decline after 1920. It wasn’t one expose that did it. Schools are more segregated than ever. Given the US Govt’s pattern of lying they are
NOT entitled to the benefit of the doubt. We now have secret courts, secret detentions, secret illegal wiretapping, etc., but all it takes is one hero with guts…..............................Yeah, right. Learn something about how institutions operate. Getting “proof” is not easy as you would know if you were a journalist.
Kuya, You are on target again. Nice to have an intelligent mind here. Personally I’m tired of the other retreads here and having to repeat myself.
Heck, good post.
yellow journalism
Scandal and sensationalism does make for good , and I use the term loosely, copy but that doesn’t mean it isn’t true. I would like to be more sure about many things but sometimes supposition is all you have to work with.
I guess at least it keeps them off the street.
hehehe
WTH, LOOK YOU FUCKING MORON, WHO THE HELL IS RUNNING GITMO, PELOSI OR KUCINICH OR OBAMA, WHO HAS SHREDDED THE CONSTITUTION WITH ILLEGAL DETENTION FOR YEARS WITHOUT CHARGES AND ILLEGAL WIRETAPPING AND THEN SIGNING RESERVATIONS TO ALL LEGISLATION THAT HE DOESN’T HAVE TO OBEY THE LAW…....IS IT NOAM CHOMSKY ?
David, WTH’s post was NOT good, it’s moronic, what’s wrong with you ? I’ll stack up the war critics on Bush & Iraq versus Limbaugh, et al, any day and unless you are a complete fucking moron like WTH, you will know the answer. The most emotive stuff here comes from rightwingers like WTH, Scorpy Doobie AKA Master Bates, Redwhore The Black Supremacist and other rightwingers. This stupid little shit WTH wants to believe in Bush, in the war, in the military, in FedGov’s goodness, in other words WTH is an insane lunatic. Tired of playing footsie with these rightist thugs. No more Mister Nice Guy.
Mike, what I liked best about Heck’s post (Feb 15, 2007 at 6:36 PM) was that he was civilized and respectful in his response. And he managed to add some humour to make me laugh when some of the hateful dialogue (Redhorse vs. Mike) on this thread has made me so sad that I feel like weeping.
Not only that but he did make some valid points as well. For instance ... Facts are better than supposition. But, as I noted, in the absence of cold, hard facts sometimes supposition is what we are left with and, as I noted, simply being an accusation or supposition does not mean that it is not true. (My apologies for repeating myself but apparently you overlooked everything after good post.)
I offered Heck constructive criticism in my response for the purpose of initiating meaningful discussion and even if you don’t (or can’t) appreciate it I hope that he does.
“you will know the answer”
I’m sorry ... what was the question?
“No more Mister Nice Guy.”
Now that is funny. It’s good to see you adding some irony to your comments.
All joking aside, Mike, I don’t like the war (or torture) either. Bush, and many others, are war criminals and I pray for the day when justice will be served on them.
I understand that when dealing with issues like the one currently under discussion here that it is difficult to remain calm, cool and collected but if we can then our cause will be better served.
If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you
You’re probably stoned
And they all know it too!
Another good post David-but this was my redeux of Kipling’s first stanza after seeing it played out over the years. Always thought that leaf on your flag looked familiar-you Canucks!
Civil? As in civil war? If you can get these guys to interact politely with one another you should stop wasting your time here. Your talents are much needed in Israel and Iraq. “If you can dream and not make dreams your master…”?
WTH…..again I understand the perspective you represent , but sensationalisms and emotions aside…I really believe these accusations are not hard to believe….Sense we are all quote great minds, remember….” Absolute power corrupts , absolutely….”
Now, I can’t think of any circumstance where absolute power is in effect more blatantly than a situation like GITMO…All you need is one or two individuals, and a ciulture of silence….
David…good to hear from you….I see you are as always the
peacemaker…
David, WTH has always been very civilized and respectful about giving the Bush AdMin and the US Govt the benefit of the doubt but since these are NOT civilized people I do not admire that trait. WTH’s trick of comparing people like Chomsky with the Limbaughs reminds me of Twain’s comment about a phony centrist knucklehead of his day in making false analogies—-“one horse, one rabbit.” So those of us who have opposed this mass murdering crew are as bad as those who supported them. NO THANKS.
Arpie, thanks. Maybe I am dreaming ...
Redhorse, good to see you too (and the horse you rode in on.) Peace!
Mike, I read through this thread again and can’t find where Heck mentioned Chomsky at all. Could you pinpoint it for me please? Maybe you are referring to his remarks about Rush Limbo and the cheerleaders on either side?
“So those of us who have opposed this mass murdering crew are as bad as those who supported them.”
I think you are making a rash inference here and I hope Heck is back soon to clarify his position and respond to your remarks.
David, I never wrote that he mentioned Chomsky, if you read his piece you will see that he blames the critics of Bush as well as the supporters and if you read enough of his crap you will see he rarely criticizes Bush except for not being hawkish enough and sending in many more troops to Iraq. I thought the irony in my rhetorical question to him was evident.
“It’s all a dream
Light passing by in a stream
and there’s you and I on a beam
Speeding through the Universe
Thinking is the best way to travel
Cold hearted orb that rules the night;
red is grey, and yellow white.
But we decide which is right;
and which is an illusion.”
MB
Heck mentioned Chomsky on the Spoils thread David. You know how these Chat Room brawls spill over into other forums. Maybe they are all sockpuppets of Theo’s, conducting an alternate reality game in which you and I are the ones being played, to learn from our responses. And I’m not so sure about you. Heard so many rumors. From you’re a ‘troll whisperer,’ an Islamic propogandist learning how to negotiate with irrational infidels, and a novelist writing a story about how cyberspace has been taken over by those creating online theatre by scripting various dramas. Will all we say here appear in you book? Or is this just a link that will take us to the next loop?
David, Redhorse, BM,
You
So Chomsky’s in the same cognitive category as Limbaugh ????!!!! And Chomsky has spent the last 40 years worrying about his image ? Whew ! On the historical record of the US Govt, Dems or Reps, they do not deserve the benefit of the doubt. Their level of mendacious criminality is such that they are guilty until proven innocent. Just the reverse of normal justice because we are dealing with a totally abnormal gang of liars and mass murderers. Funny how easily people like WTH are to accuse official enemies even though he’s seen little proof but only heard media agit-prop. But we give “ourselves” the bennies of the doubts. NO WAY !
“I never wrote that he mentioned Chomsky”
Then what’s this, Mike ....
“WTH’s trick of comparing people like Chomsky with the Limbaughs”
Heck, do you blame the critics of Bush as well as the supporters? And for what specifically? Is this your answer here re: witnessing illegal behavior; “I maintain they are as guilty as anyone for not bringing it to an end.? Isn’t speaking out about it the first step to doing just that?
Furthermore, Heck, you say that “what could have been an improvement the Middle East has been terribly botched” . I assume you are referring to the illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq? How could it have been improved? More war crimes (rhetorical question dripping with irony)? I don’t see how things could have been better except had there been no invasion at all.
Eric, good to see you again. I see the In You More Than Yourself thread is spilling over into this one.
I am the Lizard King. I can do anything.— J. Morrison
It turns out he did mention Chomsky in other threads as Eric noted but I was being ironic, David ! Substitute twenty other names in my sentence about the Bush Admin, I was asking WTH if he thought Chomsky was the one wiretapping illegally, holding citizens without trial, issuing signing statements to all Congressional bill, etc. I wrote “people LIKE Chomsky” because WTH was using a broad brush against the left——-christalmighty, Davey, your denser than he is !
I am just trying to understand, Mike. Thank you for the clarification.
And thanks for your kind words (more irony).
“I have made a ceaseless effort not to ridicule, not to bewail, not to scorn human actions, but to understand them.”
—Baruch Spinoza
WTH…fair enough , I still think this is pretty much a ” no brainer “....but your point about due process…does make sense…
Although , you can bet your bottom dollar , those who are prosecuted , if they are prosecuted….will be the scapegoats….and the real culprits will get off untouched…run for political office…and the whole dog and pony show….goes round and round…...
I generally find Chomsky to be a qiute interesting fellow…...I think Amy Goodman is an excellent journalist…if you can , check out her program online….DemocracyNow.org…..........
Hardesty thinks everybody is a racist or a fascist or some strange combination there of…I think he is the most insecure xenophobic moron to date on this ITT site…but then , I am a rookie at this…....
Okay gang, I thought to chime in.
WTH: As for drugging in Gitmo, a few released detainees have asserted as much.
A 2006 UN Comission on Human Rights report, ‘Situation of detainees at Guant
Papa Theo wrote:
[Shocked. Shocked I say! Heres a thought. Ever get sodium pentathol at the dentist? Quite a nice high actually, and it does remove barriers to things one normally wouldnt say; like “hey Doc, any chance I can get some of this to go?” Seems a far more humane way to extract info than water-boarding.]
Good post as always Papa T-but I must tell you I was disappointed you bailed on the In ‘You forum.’ I suspect the best way to grok what is happening around us is to examine first the medium, then the message. Likely Chomsky would agree.
Have you considered the possibility Gitmo might in fact have served a very beneficent purpose in a world where the Law of Inverted Intentions rules? Seems a sizable majority- 70% in Europe-now believes this country represents the greatest threat to world peace. If this perception is correct, one could certainly argue that Gitmo has been one of the beacons of our hypocrisy, its light seen round the world. The very existence of this ‘beyond any law’ camp has given radical Islam a propaganda tool even all the oil money we send the Wahhabi’s via our thoughtless consumption could have bought.
David- don’t you remember we learned some time ago Mike is a ‘mole troll?’ He gets paid for each insult he can generate in this and God knows (and maybe not even she) how many other sites. A true professional, that man. He can bait people here repeatedly by peppering his scatology with a few insightfully relevant suppositions. And not only do they become exposed to some different ideas and incited to write out their own, but they get to expiate their vile in the process! I don’t know if that Institute that employs him is federally funded, but if so its tax money well spent for a change. I would bet you Mike alone is responsible for generating nearly HALF of all that is written in this site.
Don’t you see if you were successful and got Mike to stop being Mike, this would become a ghost website? Obviously the drama is required. Why would you seek to reduce his income while depriving so many others the chance to take out their hostility in cyberspace instead of venting on those around them, who are not being paid for their abuse and have no choice in regard to accepting or responding to it? Wake up David, you’ve been dreaming again!
RP, your statement about me is totally false and libelous. Better give proof or retract. Your a lowlife, granted, that still doesn’t give you a right to invent lies.
I
Heck, thanks for taking the time to answer my questions. You asked a few yourself and I hope that my answer to the following question will suffice as an answer for all.
Would you ever favor overthrowing a dictatorship by force?
Only if I lived in one and only if it was time to say “enough”.
And, personally, likely not even then.
Blondemike recently wrote:
Ah Mike. Sad how memory slips away with time. I cant even remember when my blonde hair turned gray, or where it was I mentioned you being in the employ of a psychiatric institute as an experiment to see if people could be goaded into a therapeutic expunging of their hostility by engaging with a troll that was really a mole, online. But I did find the thread where you complimented me on discovering your secret.
You wrote in “Spoils of War”:
Should have known it wasn’t a good idea to mention it again for obvious reasons. Sorry. Please accept my apology. Anyway, guess the cat I let out of the bag here was Schrodingers, as it hasn’t discouraged your regular customers.
To make up for it I will put a couple insults in the kitty, but it wont be easy as I hold you in such high regard. Some might consider me a pathetic lowlife because of you being my hero, but I suspect they would be just projecting their own self loathing. I accept your knowledgeable judgment, as you are always right, mostly. To be totally honest, a trailer park would be a big step up for me. I am a high school drop out, and mouth breathing bottom feeder. My admission shows that once again, as usual, your conjecture regarding another users reality was right on the mark. But you should read my last post again. Far be it from me to in any way question your efforts here. I think you are the most significant member of this entire site, Kurt aside.
Mike-you don’t have blonde hair any more, and you occasionally prevaricate! There! I know it doesn’t match some of your regulars level of passion, but I hope it will qualify as an add to you monthly bonus. Keep up the great work, and dont waste time flaming those like myself and David who simply admire you too much to respond in kind. Personally it flatters me one such as you would even deign to disparage one such as I, being so far below you on every level. You are awesome dude.
Hi again recursive: Sorry about abandoning the Zizek discussion. I probably got distracted.
As for Gitmo being “one of the beacons of our hypocrisy,” I’ll agree with you up to a point. The way I see things, because X-Ray symbolizes so much, it can be shut down with great fanfare, showing the world “we” finally did something about it, put our house in order, etc. However, I, a bit of cynic, can imagine this being done in the interest of PR. The same disgusting policies can be continued elsewhere (and that was gist of my comment on the recent ITT article about closing Gitmo).
BTW, I don’t think it’s in any way odd to consider the US a threat to world peace, and for the simple reason that “we” just started a vicious war.
WTH: I agree. There’s often way too much slanging and not enough scruple around here for my tastes. So much so that it sometimes makes meaningful discussion next to impossible.
Trial by media? If I recall correctly the idea of trial by media was first forwarded by Thatcher, referring to the 1998 Gibraltar IRA fiasco—and, if I am not mistaken, it turned out that the media was right in condemning the SAS action.
That aside, I don’t think any educated or intelligent person can be opposed to “submitting evidence and testimony or proof of some kind.” And that is why, when making my points, I tend to reference documents (not ideologically driven articles) whenever possible. That’s just common sense. Facts speak for themselves and it’s through debate and discussion that we winnow sense from nonsense, enabling us to make our political asseverations.
the edit thingee’s not working… ‘88 in Gibraltar, not ‘98.
Recursiveprophet…..I liked what you have to say, for the most part….but Hardesty ( BM ), serves few purposes on this site other than the inflation of his own dysfuntional ego-centric personality disorders….Ever heard the statement…...” They’s a FUNGUS among us “.......That’s Hardesty…just an anal-retentive pest….to ostentatiously xenophobic to heal any of our underexpressed, pent up vile or outrage…..
I will admit that his outrageously bigoted statements and or generalities , have enlisted responses from the Redhorse that normally would not have been made…But those reponses have only been directed at the phobe is question…and have done little if anything to broaden my perspective on life or world affairs….
If anything Hardesty’s tyrannical behavior based only in innuendo , has sewn deeper the seeds of distrust and is an impediment to any dialog that would possibly bring about positive change….
But thats just one Horses opinion…...
Until I am able to fix my edit function….what I meant to write was….There’s a FUNGUS among us…....not…...They’s a FUNGUS among us…..
Either way Mike Hardesty is a gump…with sparse insightful revelations..I also feel that Hardesty is jealous or envious of people such as Chomsky…based on the fact of the attention their individual analysis gets as opposed to Hardesty’s trolling deficiencies….
His own petty little fears…disallow his own progress , but his ego won’t let him admit this short-fall in integrity…sooo he scapegoats his insecurities away on others…..
TheoPaPa….Curiously…what nation are you posting from….? I am unable to discern your flags designation….........
Theopapa and Redhorse,
I’m on a Mac which needs a browser upgrade and have assumed that’s why I cannot edit. Has this just recently changed for you? It sounds as though you have been able before.
WTH…Damn interesting post….but this truck has been run over before….
This whole operation was a hoax…from start to never ending finish…it was a hoax…a criminally inspired hoax..for blood money…international ( FEAR ) power,etc…...All of your moralisms make sense on paper…on paper , but when the truth of the situation , runs up against those moral maxims…thats where it gets extremely problematic.
No…it was wrong to attempt to overthrow a supposed or actual….so called dictator / cash cow business partner because he ( Saddam ) dicided to no longer honor the US dollar, in favor of the increasingly popular Euro…No , the US should not be engaged in terror inducing behavior on the citizens of another nation…especially when the US was so instrumental in the creation of said dictatorship….
You can’t correct these mistakes this way…the world just doesn’t work that way…humane nature doesn’t work that way…all you get ..is what you got…A bigger mess…more instability at home and abroad….Remember Gen.Smedley Darlington Butlers words…” War Is A Racket.”....always is , always has been….......Now a revolution is something different , true revolution don’t happen like this…they are grass-root orientative…......
Yeah WTH…I have a Windows98….but have been having problems as of late( have been told that my high-speed connection is the basic source of my problems..that eventually I need to upgrade….fair enough )...I’ve also been running Spybot , to clean out some problems , this is when the edit function on this site went out….Spybot gives me access to a log of everything that has been removed…Now if I can just figure out which function it was that caused the problem..?.Additionally my border on this page is fucked also…but the computer runs better over-all…
So…the Horse must make due for now…........
BM,
WTH…..Basically BM…Mike Hardesty seems to be ,who he says he is…A extremely confused , wannabe or actual free-lance writer…living in one of Oakland, Ca., black communities….Certian things he has to say…jive out…but other than that….everything else he has to say…comes across as some confused bigoted rhetorical bullshit…But I think he is true on his idenity…..
RP, I have the lightest of light blonde hair and I never lie. Again, your totally off base.
WTH, you shouldn’t confuse the few same posters whom I’ve rebutted at length on this site with everyone. I’ve never lied, Bush has. We did oust Hussein with a much smaller force and have suffered over 3,000 US military casualties, richly deserved, and 650,000 Iraqi civilian casualties, totally undeserved. The Washington Redskins can beat a kindergarten team too, so what ? I am ashamed to be an American but since the US Empire dominates the world, we have to stay here and fight it, as Guevara said we are the fighters in the belly of the beast. We had no right to invade Iraq anymore than the USSR had to invade Afghanistan or Hungary or the US Empire had the right to invade South Vietnam. Bottom line, WTH, your an apologist for the planet’s leading Rogue Nation and that right v. left jazz is irrelevant besides that fact.
RH, I have known and corresponded with Chomsky for 22 years, have often agreed with him and never felt bested by him in our debates when we disagreed. I never had any great desire to be a public figure so my alleged envy is nonexistent. I’ve noticed that psychobabble is the religion of the libs much like Jeezez is to the cons. I’m a follower of Dr. Thomas Szasz and believe mental illness is a bigger myth than the “holocaust” so please pardon me if I am unimpressed by your psychologizing here. Also I could easily state that my racial generalizations are a response to yours rather than vice-versa. I am an actual freelance writer and even published in The Washington Post Sunday Editorial Outlook Section in late Oct 1993 on WPFW, the Pacifica station in DC, Dueling On The Dial, is the title and is accessible on the web. Also half a dozen times in Z Magazine, three with Nina and we also did one for The Progressive, I did two reviews for the old Commie National Guardian in 89 and 90, one the only US review of a major Chomsky book according to Noam himself. Then a dozen pieces for the left Anderson Valley Advertiser in Mendocino and two for the East Bay Express, nothing since 2000. It’s very avocational for me because I make my living in financial management. Born in DC in late 44.
Denial is the first sign of a problem…All your ” professional shit ” means nothing to the Redhorse…you’re still a misguided xenophobe , with no understanding of half the shit you babble about….You also have a convenient ablity for amnesia….especially when dealing with issues concerning race and class…...Other then that…you are a throughly self-absorbed , ego-centered moron.., who claims of having no desire for public recognition….seems at odds with your most recent post…( more personal bullshit that one does not care or need to know….)One thing is for sure….Redhorse is incline to wonder what would happen to your professional and personal contacts , if the bigoted provocations you have mastered on this site where made public…Could you really handle the scrutiny , it’s one thing to pen bigotry in relative anonymity , another to wear it as a badge or marker for all to see…..I am a member of Pacifica , WPFW.FM , and I am sure that their management would not approve of your opinions , and furthermore would disavow any involvement with you professionally or socially…So as far as your contention that you never lie, you have to lie , in order to be associated with these individuals in a progressive forum…Obviously you have misrepresented yourself and your views, in order to be taken with a measure of seriousness…WPFW doesn’t censor commentary,,,but neither do they promote your kind of sociopathic nonsense…So in short…Hardesty..you ARE a disingenuous lying SOB…....
Szasz is just another smoke screen for your denial complex….Didn’t this guy Szasz advocate for personal freedoms in relation to culture and social values….something that you tend to forget when penning all your bigoted rhetoric….Scientology…...hahahahahahaha….recycled mythology….done over as some new way of life…hahahahahahahaha…Like I said…you’re just a scared little moron , trying to justify your miserable existence….hahahahahaha….What a joke…Tom Cruis’in thru life ...eeh ol’boy..hahahahahaha…I can’t stop laughin’...Scientologist bullshit….hahahahaha….You are too much Hardesty….too much indeed….....hahahahahahaha….etc.
So now I get it Hardesty…you’re just a phony bastard…that doesn’t know it yet…..What a gump….........the ’ toon that keeps on ’ toonin’.....
Yes…’ toon is short for cartoon…cause you’re definitely out of the funny pages…..........Scientology…hahahaha….moron.
Posted by blondemike on Feb 18, 2007 at 2:31 PM
Good post, Mike.
Great post Mike! And if truth be told I think you are being modest. Now for all of your desciples out there who just havent realized yet how inportant you are to them, I would like to propose my own poll. And in addition to the mini-bio in your last post, I would ask others to name one other user that has been as open about sharing his real identity!
Who do you believe Blondemike really is?
A: The multi-dimensional Sage of Oakland whos Gonzo stye is the main draw to this site.
B: An unsung hero in the struggle to push the envelope of intellectual tolerance.
C: A warrior in the cause of creating ungarnished honesty in online dialectic.
D: All or none of the above.
WTH-if you didn
RP…I couldn’t disagree with you more on this one…..Hardesty holds no fascination to the Redhorse…unfortunately…his pompous bullshiter act is all to common in DC….and I suspect his neighbors in Oakland have become weary of his ostentatious aryan act….His trivial responses to the realities that comfront the Black community are not seen as ‘’ witty “or ” insightful ” only those of a nero-minded bigot…..
Actually you are correct on one point…I would not technically classify this moron Hardesty as a racist….he’s not that powerful…but a lowbrow bigot….yes….Yes…Hardesty is a proud card carrying bigot…and uses all that euro-centered justificational bullshiter literature he loves to boast about as some kind of psuedo-intellectual excuse for his indeterminately incoherent belief systems…..
Now what I am interested in knowing from you RP , is…you said..”..It has been my experience those how believe cultural strife is based solely on superficial prejudice ( ex.skin color ) are mostly those who had little direct experience interecting with them as a minority within….”
Who is this ” them “, that they have had little experience interacting with…..white folks….black folks…..?.
Additionally , what is so superficial about pre-judging people…thats the basis of the racist mentality…..too PRE-JUDGE…
The superficiality is not in the stars…it is in your mind….
You seem like a decent guy RP…WAKE UP….!!!
Redhorse, whooooaaaa ! What a fearsome public bowel movement you have unleashed ! There’s not much to respond to because it’s all ad hominems with no cognitive content. On WPFW I was writing about them for The Post, I never said I was a member. As far as my neighbors go we all mind our own business and as regards the few criminal ones we get the police involved. Believe me I could care less what they think. I think your impotent rage is precisely because I do not fit in that little right wing box. At one time I did support KPFA out here in Berkeley but I got sick of their hate whitey campaign and incessant apologias for the black criminal class. Funny thing, horse, I’m finding more blacks who agree with me all the time. How’s that outpatient treatment at St. E’s coming along ? I was worried about you being homeless after they closed the DC General psych ward.
Thanks, RP and thanks, David. Appreciate the feedback even though I disagree with much of it.
Ad hominem….poor BM ,..reduced to stealing the Redhorses insults to get by…..Damn I’m good..this bastard is 3000 miles away, and yet…the Horse can still pick his pocket…..
Wave to your fans Hardesty…what are you now…another Howard Stern…..! ! !
I’m on the balcony waving to them now…..........One of my first cousins in the DC PD, Richard Hardesty, is the guy who tackled Hinckley after his botched assassination attempt in March, 1981. They tried to keep him out of the PD claiming he was a racist but he got on and has been busting heads ever since. Yeah, I know bout the pickpocket charges, horse, Dickie got me yo’ rap shot. Longer than my dick.
Well…..sense there is no rap sheet…I guess that would mean you are a dickless nonfucking bastard…...eeh.
Guys, knock it off, please.
Redhorse, I think you meant to spell SINCE but since you can’t spell that it makes it very hard to get through life, doesn’t it ? What affirmative action program got you working as a psych ? This is scary. We need to veto affirmative action for pilots and surgeons. What’s yo’ hood in DC, bro ? Give me another high five ! Oh and eh is spelled eh. Only one E. I still don’t get your references to cartoons ? Is that your main TV entertainment ? I outgrew them at 9 but some of you are kinda slow, right ? Dickie tells me you DO have a sheet, he’s even busted you himself. Are you in the Anacostia hood ? I ask that because I know you have rotated between the DC Gen psych ward when they were open and the DC Jail, both next to each other there in the Southeast jungle. St. E’s is on Nichols Ave,SE. Maybe yo’ hinepos ain’t wrapped up too tight, bro.’
Yeah….the edit function does’t work….
I guess you got to be one anal-compulsive dickhead to obsess over the spelling of eeeh….?
See Hardesty…this is the kind of shithead response that started this whole disagreement in the first place…Redhorse didn’t insult you first…it was your fucked up rhetoric…straight off the bat…See RP and David…unless you actually believe this crap Hardesty rants about…the entertanment value is of extremely limited value…...
See if I don’t catch the mistake before I hit the submit function….I can’t edit.. “.Yeah…...the edit function doesn’t work….....”
The edit function ? Nice try, clown. The fact is that you can’t spell, you can’t write a proper sentence or paragraph, you can’t read coherently and you can’t think. If you go to the beginning of our exchanges you will see that all the original hate & hostility came from you.
I would be interested in anyone’s comments on this article. Is the only difference with the U.S. system that we tell everything to the world? I had not heard any of these European tactics before.
————————————————-
http://www.opinionjournal.com/wsj/?id=110009712
GLOBAL VIEW
The Napoleonic Code is more conducive to counterterrorism than the U.S. Constitution.
BY BRET STEPHENS Sunday, February 25, 2007
All the Police Staters love it, your presumed guilty till proven innocent.
Louisiana has it but I don’t know how it jibes with the Bill of Rights.
Mike,
How long have they been living under these rules? Was there any resistance?
WTH, good questions, wish I had definitive answers. I think Louisiana has had the Napoleonic Code from its beginning. Jim Garrison, the former DA in Orleans Parish thought there were a lot of problems with it. The very concept would seem to conflict with the US Constitution. Probably should do more research here.
(I got a blacklisted warning so I brokeup a url)
.In 1963 when the Schools of America began the use of Kubark in Latin America, which was the same year Scientology introduced the “Alice in Wonderland” technique.
$cientology political action committee
(PAC (yeah a charitable lobby) named CSR trying to
detox VETERANS USING KUBARK counterintelligence.
http ://www.floridacsr.org/index- 1.html
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