Democracy Haters

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• Reader Comments (43)

  Page 1 of 1 pages

  This is very illustrative of the main problem of the Democratic Party: It is RUN by a bunch of milquetoast Beltway insiders out of touch with their rank and file across the country. The leadership buys into the insider mentality and constantly tries to direct the party to more “centrist” positions while what rank and file prefers much bolder leadership.

  Posted by lams712 on Mar 27, 2007 at 9:24 AM

  Mr. Sirota,

  There is a difference between a democracy and a republic. Thank goodness we are a republic and not run by a simple majority vote (which the internet now very easily could tally).

  Had we been a pure democrracy on 9-12-01 we might well have voted to, “Nuke the bastards!”

  As it is now, however, whoever gets the PR & Lobbying machine running most effectively can sway our elected representatives and our easily duped citizenry.  That is, if they can lure them away from American Idol and present their own vitual reality program.

  Posted by whattheheck on Mar 27, 2007 at 1:11 PM

  WTH, you are absolutely right about the difference between a Republic and a Democracy, not one in a thousand Americans knows this vital distinction so I salute you here ! Democracy is just a means to socialism for the Left and the neocon Right, who are really old Hubert
  Humphrey lefties of the Cold Warrior stripe though most take care to keep their fruiter behinds far away from actual battle. The rank and file lefties like lams make a lot of noise but they normally can’t elect pwogwessives even in the primary and never in the general election.
  90% of the new Dems in Congress are BLUE DOGS, Jim Webb is more
  against gun control than George Allen ever was (though probably not a good idea to carry one into the Capitol.) The vote was against Bush’s WAR and usurpation of powers in wiretapping, etc., NOT a vote for
  socialism or the fascist form of socialism advocated by weenies like
  lams and Hillary, ad nauseum.

  Posted by blondemike on Mar 27, 2007 at 4:50 PM

  blondemike:

  Fuck you, you fucken fuck!!!!

  I need to set the record straight on a couple of things. With you playing the role of the loudmouth at the bar, I can’t let your rambling assertions go unchallenged.

  First, the “90% of new Dems in Congress are BLUE DOGS” comment is absolutely false. Again, blondemike shows his penchant for making up numbers as he sees fit.

  Secondly, there are plenty of PWOGWESSIVES that have been ELECTED. One of the largest caucuses for Democrats in the House is the Progressive Caucus, and they actually lost two members (Bernie Sanders-VT, Sherrod Brown-OH) because they were ELECTED to the Senate. To say that “rank and file lefties like lams make a lot a noise but they normally can’t elect pwogwessives even in the primary and never in the general election” is again a patently FALSE statement, but BM has never had a problem with LYING.

  Finally, I agree with you that Hillary Clinton may be a fascist in waiting, but that is only because she is a Republican-lite/conservative/DLC/inside-the-beltway/corporatist. All I need to do is follow the money and see whose interests lie where. To count Hillary Clinton with me and my progressive brethren is intellectually dishonest, but then again, for BM, dishonesty is his policy.

  Posted by lams712 on Mar 27, 2007 at 9:33 PM

  Iams, Mike,

  While Americans continue to play the “Who-is-the-Most-to-Blame-Game” our country is going down in flames. One thing radicals (Muslim or otherwise) have is — enough unity to get something done.

  Neither major US party exists in its traditional form anymore. Democrats are not backing democracy and Republicans no longer represent “We the People.” Both are beholding to those special interest groups with the biggest budgets. Just look at the payoffs this past week in the War Budget Blather — the price of a single vote was outrageous! That’s where inflation is rampant!

  While the DC kabuki plays on for public consumption, the cooperative efforts of congressional power-wielders and transnational corporations are sucking us dry.

  Last night Frontline (WGBH) had a very informative article Al Jazeera and their massive expansion. Their English language version has been kept out of the US (except for the web) on grounds they back our enemies.

  Only recently have the US State Dept. and military attempted to connect and compete with them. US news is so US centric that everything we do (and don’t do) presents us in a bad light. For a country that values freedom of speech we have lost valuable time and opportunity to both learn and explain (it’s called dialog) by this isolation of ideas policy.

  While pushing Globalization as an economic benefit we have arrogantly ignored the “hearts and minds” of the world. While radical Muslims have adopted and perfected use of the mass media (previously our forte) we have adopted the radical Muslim method (death to the infidel) with “You will become a democracy, or else!”

  We can at least listen — to listen is NOT to endorse.  It is encouraging that we have made a start.

  ---------

  Mike, (I can’t get back into counterinsurgency 101.)

  After reading some of Robert Fisk’s articles I find he is definitely lacking in credibility. For example he says we in the U.S. are cringing in fear based on a few college girls comments. He told a group of Egyptian school girls the Middle East is all about oil — too simplified — oil is definitely important, but not the whole picture. Oversimplification is not a good journalism.

  In one article he says he does not like it when he is included as in, “Why are ‘we’ in the Middle East?” Yet he is obviously not reluctant to give answers as in “We are there just for the oil” as though he has some official position as spokesman for the US.
  
  Also, while Powell was obviously overstating the case to the U.N., he has not categorically denied all of it. Professional soldiers are often reluctant to publicly criticize policy. His biggest disagreement on Iraq was the small force Rumsfeld wanted to (and did) deploy. This he did express to Bush before the invasion.

  Posted by whattheheck on Mar 28, 2007 at 7:55 AM

  Israel is the ONLY reason there ARE radical Muslims, they were not a factor 20 years ago. We need to pull out now. There’s nothing to debate. Powell has admitted his UN speech was a tissue of lies as it was. If you want to play let’s examine the number of angels on the head of a pin to see what comments, if any, were true, go ahead. It’s a wasteful exercise. IF Iraq had had WMDs, so what ? Israel has 400-500 nukes, the US 50,000 nukes plus inumerable other WMDs, is there any MORON who is stupid enough to believe Saddam would have attacked either Israel or the USA ???????????? Even though WE gave him the green light to invade Iran AND Kuwait he was not successful in either endeavor though the attack on Kuwait was far more justifiable than the attack on Iran, unlike Iran Kuwait is actually part of Iraq. Regardless of what you claim Powell wanted and we know in 1991 he was OPPOSED to invading central Sunni Iraq, he has now disavowed the neocon Cheney-Bush policies in Iraq. Frankly, they are a disaster in Afghanistan too. Powell hasn’t spoken on that yet. But who cares ? If you think Fisk is lacking in credibilty based on a few articles then you need to read his two massive books, one on Lebanon and the 2006 book on The Great War For Civilization. It’s interesting that you discount his man on the street interviews he’s done but you believe any fucking asshole US military cretin on whatever bullshit he relates. You really are a piece of work, WTH, Fisk has spent over thirty years there, he has forgotten more about the Middle East than you ever knew and you discount him based on a few articles, ASSUMING THAT YOU ARE EVEN CORRECTLY REPORTING THE CONTENTS OF SAME. READ HIS MASSIVE BOOKS AND HE NEVER WROTE IN THERE THAT OIL WAS THE SOLE REASON. IT IS A VERY IMPORTANT ONE BUT HE NEVER SAID OR WROTE THAT IT WAS THE SOLE ONE. AGAIN READ THE BOOKS TO GET A BROADER IDEA OF HIS ACTUAL THINKING AND KNOWLEDGE.
  Lams, I read the bios of all the elected Dems and 90% are in the Blue Dog category, I myself didn’t believe it at first. 22 of the 23 candidates emanuel Rahm was pusing for the DCCC were PRO-war. Nine won. As for fucking, I prefer women, Lams. Sorry but I was impressed with the head you gave Doctor Rick. As far as Billary goes you’ll be endorsing her in 08 as your ideological always does.
  Interestingly enough, you have yet to document one “lie” I’ve allegedly told. Watch those temper
  tantrums, dude, your truss might give way. Does your wife know you’re Bi ?

  Posted by blondemike on Mar 28, 2007 at 10:57 AM

  There goes BM with his fuzzy math. Let’s see, he seems to get 9 out of 22=90%.  If that weren’t enough, given the fact that the Democrats won 31 seats he must believe 9/31=90%. He also makes the fallacy that Pro-war=Blue Dog, when there are NUMEROUS issues that would make one a member of a particular faction. Just because a person is pro-war that does not make him/her a Blue Dog.

  Of course, BM didn’t even address my other points. Don’t worry, it’s very common for him to dodge issues when confronted with THE TRUTH.

  Posted by lams712 on Mar 28, 2007 at 11:46 AM

  Whattheheck,

  Any high school graduate knows the difference between a democracy and a republic (despite what BM seems to think) and, while many people use the shorthand term “democracy” to describe our form of government, I doubt that many are under the impression that the voters make all the decisions.
  Sirota’s point IS that we live in a republic - a representative democracy - but our representatives aren’t representing us.  “It has been four months since voters delivered an antiwar mandate, and the Washington establishment no longer pretends to care about the public will.”
  I’ve noticed that people often trot out the “we’re a republic, not a democracy” routine when representatives refuse to listen to the voters.  In a republic, “democratic” means the will of the voters is reflected in the decisions of the representatives. 
  Let’s see, what’s it called when the representatives represent themselves instead of the voters?

  VTer

  Posted by Vermonter on Mar 28, 2007 at 12:28 PM

  Lams, you can’t read any straighter than you can think. I didn’t say that the 9 elected by Rahm were 90%, I said 90% of the elected were more Blue Dogs than Pwogs. Your other two points are not important, if you look at the history of Demo primaries the left candidate rarely wins, if you need historical examples I can supply them. On Hillary I understand your point but you’ll be on board in 08. So what have I not addressed ?
  Vermonter, you are wrong to minimize the differences between republics and democracies, see The Federalist Papers for an example. This is one area where WTH was right.

  Posted by blondemike on Mar 28, 2007 at 12:40 PM

  BM lay down the crackpipe and learn to communicate, asshole. You have misrepresented what you said, and of course, you simply ignore hard facts when confronted with the truth. Just admit you got caught with your hand in the cookie jar and stop with the semantics. You were caught spreading falsehoods and now you’re backpedaling faster than a neocon talking about Iraq and 9-11. Some people here might give your extremist views a free pass, but I will always confront your lies.

  Posted by lams712 on Mar 28, 2007 at 5:29 PM

  Having another hissy fit, Lams ? “Crackpipe” ? I’ve never even taken pot. Though I do believe all drugs should be decriminalized so you can kill yourself without burdening myself.  So HOW did I “misrepresent” myself ? Kind of a neat trick if I did. Your idea of “confrontation” is rather pathetic, you have yet to document one of my “lies” much less refute them.

  Posted by blondemike on Mar 28, 2007 at 5:39 PM

  BM:

  See post #4 of this thread. I pointed out three LIES and called you out. You tend to make up numbers as you see fit. Sometimes you say things that don’t line up with the facts. I will continue to call you you when I see misrepresentations. You claim that you are not trying convert anyone, that you just want to set the record straight. I just want to correct your misrepresentations.

  For example, if “90% of the newly elected Dems are Blue Dogs” then that will mean that 27 of the 31 newly elected Dems are Blue Dogs. THAT IS A LIE. (Go to the Blue Dog Dems website, go to the Progressive Caucus website; you can’t just read bios and jump to conclusions). But of course, in your post , you threw out misleading numbers like “22 of 23 were pro war and 9 won”.  I called out your fuzzy math and now you’re the one backpedalling.

  Posted by lams712 on Mar 29, 2007 at 7:43 AM

  VTer,

  Well, you have much more confidence in high school graduates than I. The last I heard most of them didn’t know who was vice president and without their calculator couldn’t give you the square root of 4.

  At any rate just look at the quality of discussion/debate at this website (Iam & Blondemike) if you think the “will of the people” is any criteria of how major decisions should be made.

  I’ll grant that congress has been at least as bad as the executive branch, but I doubt there is a form of government capable of dealing with the speed and volume of “information” batting around the globe these days. Our delivery methods have far out paced the mind of man.

  We’re still operating on SoftWare 1.0 and there is no upgrade available or tech support we can trust. Therefore we get sound bite reporting and mob reaction to the latest blather.

  Posted by whattheheck on Mar 29, 2007 at 7:43 AM

  Lams, I never lied. You have made assertions that I have. I responded to your assertions. The fact is that the figure I gave which included ideological DLC types who may not formally join the Blue Dog Caucus is correct. Even if it was wrong, it would be mistaken, not a lie. After the elections a local commentator on the leftist Pacifica station here pointed this out, I disputed this, he said check out the actual ideological credentials, see what caucus they join, if any, and more importantly see what they ran on and how they vote. I did just that, if it turns 80% instead of 90% vote a Blue Dog-DLC line that would not obviate my point. On the Emanuel Rahm candidates, he was the Chair of the DCCC, I gave the exact figures, 22 of the 23 he supported were pro-war but fortunately only 9 won. You are frankly a stupid hysterical juvenile piece of shit. It’s a waste of time trying to reason with you. I stand by my comments nor have I done any backpedaling. The overwhelming majority of newly elected Dems are NOT progressives. Notice in my response to you above I stated that 90% were MORE Blue Dogs than Pwogs, I was speaking as exactly as the facts permit. Too bad you don’t like them. But who cares ? To date you have NEVER called out on anything, you HAVE called me names and used profanity and I to a very partial extent am responding with same here.

  Posted by blondemike on Mar 29, 2007 at 9:12 AM

  Radical Islam has NOTHING to do with Israel. It is related to three things. First, it is what Chalmers Johnson has rightly described as “blowback” from the days of the Afghan War against the Soviet invasion and occupation which created the infamous “Afghan-Arabs” who became an international force for Islamic Conquest for the first time since the days of Mohammed. The second factor is the continued US military presence in Saudi Arabia, the holiest place in Islam. This is an offense to all Muslims. The third factor is obviously the continued torment of Iraq which has cost over 700,000 Iraqi lives since the overthrow of Saddam in the spring of 2003 and has destroyed the country and destabilized the entire Middle East.

  The Palestinian Issue is an afterthought at best. Non-Palestinian terrorism in the Middle East didn’t exist before Operation Desert Storm. Osama bin Laden was a close ally of the US in 1987, a year which saw both the creation of Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan and the outbreak of the Palestinian intifada. US weapons continued to be funnelled through Pakistan to Al-Qaeda and other groups fighting the Russians and their proxies between 1987 and 1991, the year of Operation Desert Storm. The height of the Palestinian Intifada, which took place between 1987 and 1990, the year Saddam invaded Kuwait, saw the mass slaughter of thousands of Palestinian resisters by the IDF and the destruction of thousands of homes, businesses, and agricultural land. There was not a peep of opposition from any Islamic Group except the Palestinian Hamas. Israel’s brutal suppression of the Intifada went on with no protest from Al-Qaeda. There was also no disruption in its hearty acceptance of US support in its civil war against the Northern Alliance after the departure of the Russians. The common interest held by al-Qaeda (and later the Taliban) and the US in building new pipelines from the Caspian south toward Pakistan instead of North into Russia was sufficient to maintain good relations between Radical Islam and the West.

  Of course, Islamic Fundamentalists hate Israel and want to see it gone. The torment of the Palestinians is the reason. Yet even Hamas has implied it will recognize Israel in return for an end to the illegal occupation according the UNSCR 242 and meaningful Israeli compromise on the Arab Refugee issue. Islamic Fundamentalists have always swallowed Israel’s right to exist like a bitter pill. Israel has NEVER been a PRIMARY cause for Islamic terrorism of any kind whatsoever!!

  Posted by cabdriverinchicago on Mar 29, 2007 at 12:29 PM

  You are wrong, it is a strong reaction to Israel first and foremost and then a strong reaction to US support for Israel and Arab Reaction. And actually many Islamic groups DID protest Israel’s brutal behavior in the first intifada. Including the people who formed what Al Queda. Israel is the primary cause for Islamic terrorism and for leftist Arab terrorism before that. Read David Hirst’s The Gun and The Olive Branch as well as Edward Said’s The Question Of Palestine as well as Avi Schlaim’s The Iron Wall. The PLO was formed as a partly terrorist group in 1965 in response to Israel and the Islamic groups have formed terrorist divisions in response to the Israeli Lobby Gulf Wars. Israel and a large dirty segment of US Racist Zionist organizations are responsible for US bias towards Israel, ADL, AJC, AIPAC, ad nausem, Conference of Major Jewish Organizations. When Israel thankfully goes that will be the end of Islamic terrorism. Maybe Islam since its growth since Nasser died has largely been in reaction to Israel. Spare me your shitty Mossad agit-prop, and CHANGE your colostomy bag NOW. You stink !

  Posted by blondemike on Mar 29, 2007 at 12:57 PM

  WTH,
  Thanks for the opportunity to clarify. 
  First, my opinion of high school graduates may be skewed by the excellent schools in my location.  I can’t say with any certainty that students in the rest of the country have a basic understanding of the principles of democracy.  (That was actually the name of my high school civics textbook.  I think they call civics “government studies” now.) But I hope they do.

  I live in a state where direct democracy is practiced hand-in-hand with representative democracy.  Voters in a number of Vermont communities have already taken it upon themselves to direct their representatives to initiate impeachment proceedings. 
  Here is where the division between direct democracy and representative democracy is highlighted:  Although many of the decisions in our direct democracy process have the full weight of law, the voters directive to impeach is considered “advisory,” or “non-binding.”
  Perhaps that was your point, that no law constrains representatives in our legislative bodies to cast a vote, or seek legislation based upon voters’ referendum.  If so, fair enough.

  Your latest point, that representatives’ decisions can’t be ruled by daily opinion polls is well taken.  But my argument wasn’t in regard the differences between direct and representative democracy.  It was with the philosophical notion that our representatives can band together to ignore the issues that the voters have identified as important. 
  Personally, I believe the President, Vice President, and half the cabinet should be tried for treason and sedition.  My opinion.  There are others (although fewer every day) who believe the same crew should be sainted.  Their opinion.
  In Vermont, and many other states, the voters have identified impeachment as serious issue.  Our representatives may not be legally bound to cast a final vote in favor removing the President from office, but they are ethically bound to discuss impeachment in a public hearing, and determine if it is warranted.  Impeachment, as I’m sure I don’t have to tell anyone here, is only a formal accusation.  It is not a finding of misconduct, nor does it necessarily mean removal from office.

  Sirota makes the same argument in his article.  Far from suggesting that representatives should vote with daily opinion polls, he says that public opinion has been building steadily in one direction for years.  Four years.  Discussing the Iraq war would hardly be bowing to fad.
  And Sirota doesn’t tell Congress what to do or how to vote.  He’s asking them to do something.  Anything.  Acknowledge voters’ priorities.  That’s why they were elected.  (And why some of their old buddies weren’t)

  -VTer

  Posted by Vermonter on Mar 29, 2007 at 1:39 PM

  BM,

  You are utterly wrong. Obviously the current round of Islamic fundamentalist terrorism, including 9/11, is due to everything the US has done from Desert Storm on to the present. The facts I presented are correct and you never once addressed them in any way at all.Israel alone would not have brought the 9/11 attacks. Israel brutally occupied Arab Lands for almost 35 years at the time of the attacks and existed for over 50 years. There would have been an anti-US response much sooner and during the first Initifada if Israel were the chief antagonist and to blame for the current terror. Your views are simply not backed up by facts. Read M. Mamdani Good Muslim, Bad Muslim and John K. Cooley, UNHOLY WARS. Both are good sources and neither believes Israel’s occupation to be any more than a mere aggravation of the current situation. Not a prime cause.

  Posted by cabdriverinchicago on Mar 29, 2007 at 5:19 PM

  If he were talking about some social issue, like health care, Sirota might have a point.  But with war and foreign policy, these are areas that are traditionally (used to be, pretty much) the domain of the President and the executive branch, at least after the initial approval for a policy has been given.

  The problem for the anti-war reps is that most people want to see us win in Iraq, even though their current opinions reflect a loss of hope.  (remember just after the initial invasion, a large majority approved of our action) When proposals to cut off funding for the troops that we all admire and respect come up, it’s very distasteful to a large swath of Americans, and so the issue can be thus exploited by their political rivals very effectively.

  Thus the caution and reluctance for certain actions, at least for now.  What happens on the ground in Iraq in the coming months will dictate how cautious and reluctant they remain.

  Posted by Natalie on Mar 29, 2007 at 5:31 PM

  Chicago, I refuted your comments here on the other thread as well as above.Islamic terrorism is totally in reaction to Israel, to US blank check support of israel and lastly to US-Israeli support of Arab Reaction Regimes. See Robert Fisk’s massive 1,000 page plus 2006 book The Great Battle For Civilization: The War For The Middle East” as far back as the 80s when he interviewed the beginnings of the fundamentalists Israel was their number one concern and the US their number one enemy BECAUSE OF THE US BLANK CHECK FOR ISRAEL BECAUSE OF THE VASTLY OVERREACHING ZIONIST RACIST POLITICAL POWER WIELDED BY AIPAC THROUGH CONTROL OF THE CONGRESS, THE PRESIDENCY, THE MEDIA AND HOLLYWOOD. This makes The Protocols look like a very conservative understatement, i never believed in the Protocols but now they are passe because the AIPAC control over every aspect orf our political and media life has made them come true and then some ! Traitors like you work fulltime spreading disinformation and should be treated like the Pollards & the Rosenbergs, like the scum you are. When Israel goes, Islamic Fundamentalism will die on the vine. I don’t know Mamdani and WHY I ever trust anything that you recoomend ???????????? I KNOW John Cooley and you are flat out lying about his views here.

  Posted by blondemike on Mar 29, 2007 at 6:39 PM

  I read Cooleys book and the entire focus is on Afghanistan and the sources of Islamic Fundamentalism related to the Afghan-Arabs and the countries they came from in the fight against the Russian invasion. Cooley wrote a book called Green March Black September about the collapse of the Palestinian resistance in Jordan. He also wrote a recent book with Pluto Publishers which I have where he relates US hegemony, Israel, and the War in Iraq but he never blames Israel for the rise of Islamic Fundamentalism. It simply isn’t true.Where were the fundies all throught the 1980s? Mostly in Lebanon I would say keeping things local.

  By the Way, Robert Dreyfus in The Devils Game has an interesting chapter on Israel and Hamas. According to him Israel under the coalition governments throughout the 1980s helped to promote Islamic fundamentalism through the “village leagues” in the WB and Gaza. The fundies were seen as (a) a counterwieght to the more legitimate PLO/Fatah movement with whom there was international pressure to negotiate and, (b) a force which after eclipsing the PLO would lack the sufficient legitimacy as a negotiating partner with Israel. The Israelis pursued them wildly. By the early 1990s Hamas shieks owned ten percent of the real estate in Gaza. I personally worked with a team of Palestinian construction workers in Bnai Barak who were from a village called Umm al-Fahem which is inside the Green Line. The mayor there is a Shiek who belongs to Hamas. This means he gets a municiple budget from the national Israeli government to run the city as well as local taxes. I wondered how this could be since like most people I believed that Hamas was banned. Dreyfus’s book clarified the political situation by explaining the Israeli strategy which appears to also be the US strategy in Central Asia and Iraq. Fundies are religious fanatics with very local, traditional concerns. Nation-building ala socialists and nationalists is not their thing and thus they cannot easily interfer with US corporate strategies for economic hegemony and imperial control.

  This is the reason for dividing Iraq into three regions and giving so much support to the likes of SCIRI and other Shi’ites in Iraq. The will leave the oil majors alone for a token fee!!

  Posted by cabdriverinchicago on Mar 29, 2007 at 11:49 PM

  VTer,

  You are indeed fortunate to have excellent schools. After federally mandated busing (to achieve racial balance) for over 30 years, everyone who can afford to has sent their kids to private schools here. The gang problems continue to grow and we’ve had cops on hall duty for decades.  Kids graduate, but the level of learning under such conditions is minimal. The lawsuit cost was in the hundreds of millions and the educational quality is worse than I ever thought possible. My wife and I have both been volunteers — she in grade school and I in high school, but no more — it is not a situation where those few who want to learn have much chance.
  
  I have a son with a degree in statistics who worked at a consumer information gathering firm for many years. His job was to monitor data quality which begins with the questions asked and how they are presented. As a business man I was contacted by pollsters several times — written and orally. The methods used were seldom anything other than a way to collect “proof” rather than impartial data. Example: Caller, “I’d like to speak to a female employee.” My reply, “There aren’t any.” — CLICK — (I had NO employees at all.) So much for the poll number we hear every day. Check out the poll at this website right now for a real great example.

  My main objective now that I am retired and have the time is to try to get as broad a picture on issues as possible. We all have prejudices and biases, but we can try to work around them. Unless we do nothing will ever be accomplished.

  The war: I have nearly six hours of 9/11 on tape from the first reports of an accidental crash (I was taping CNBC.) and have watched it twice since. I never want to forget why we are in the mess of today. A good friend lost more than 200 employees in WTC that day.

  Perhaps the best thing we can all learn from this is that any anxieties, insecurities or impotence we may feel as a result of the botched “democratization” of Iraq is that man cannot fix everything. Sometimes even the best intentions can not make things work. Yeah, I know we all have our view on the intentions.

  We did a lot of things wrong and some of the people I have talked with who have been over there will openly admit that. (We also did some things quite well, but that is seldom a news worthy event.)

  What we should keep in mind is that we in the U.S. have had it so good, for so long, that we think we deserve to have it that way. Most people throughout most of history have had a very precarious existence. Success does not always depend on how much money is spent — “With the $billions spent on intelligence, we should have known...” or “The Corps of Engineers should have prevented Katrina from collapsing the levees.”

  Offering a bigger sacrifice to the Governmental/Scientific Gods will not guaranty anything. We can’t even get their attention. No one cares about your problems like you do.

  Yesterday I was telling my barber about a long time mutual friend whose business is now completely gone by way of globalization. His wife has recently had brain surgery and his health insurance premiums are a disaster. All three of us are/were self employed — no group policy, no unemployment benefits.
  
  My barber, age 57, had open heart surgery two years ago. His current policy costs $10,000 annually with a $15,000 deductible, no prescription coverage and his business has been falling for years. As first our manufacturing jobs and now our white collar ones leave town people can go much longer between visits. My dentist has seen the same effect.
  
  I had similar insurance experience before I made it to Medicare — one surgery claim after 20 years paying and an increase of 427% in the next two years.  My letters to the state insurance board and my representatives were of no use.

  I have given up trying to communicate with any government representative above city level. They did a good job of snow removal this year.

  Posted by whattheheck on Mar 30, 2007 at 7:28 AM

  I’m talking about Cooley’s several PREVIOUS books as well as his longtime reporting for the Christian Science Monitor and ABC News. Bottom line, Chicago, is why do I need to read you or your refs WHEN you libel me and mine and I have Robert Fisk’s massive work ?
  Chicago “Argument"--"Lyaaah ! Raaayshist ! FaaaayShist ! Auntey-semenite ! Naaarrrzzzii !  All my sources are true BECAUSE I say so ! Noontide Press is no good BECAUSE I say ! Jews are superhuman wonderful people BECAUSE I say so ! All the problems we have had for six million years from auntey-semenites are ALL someone else’s fault BECAUSE I say so ! You should be banned from all sites BECAUSE I say so ! I am very objective on the A-Rab Question BECAUSE I say so ! Israeli shit smells like perfume BECAUSE I say so ! The Allies never tortured anyone BECAUSE I say so ! Demjanjuk was guilty BECAUSE I say so ! Hitler was not a Keynesian but a libertarian BECAUSE I say so ! Hillary’s twat smells good at 5pm BECAUSE I say so ! Only RAAAYYYSSSHHiissttsoppose Obama BECAUSE I say so !”

  WOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWWW !
  Impressive reasoning, dude !  However, the Chicago Taxi Commission still wants you to CHANGE your colostomy bag BECAUSE they say so !

  Posted by blondemike on Mar 30, 2007 at 10:20 AM

  wth - interesting post. Remind me, roughly where do you live? Here where i live (in the deep south of all places) the public schools are very good indeed (which is NOT to say that discipline issues are not important). However, the city i live in is an island - move 40 miles in any direction and the schools go from very good to abysmal quickly.

  Posted by wolf on Mar 30, 2007 at 12:23 PM

  Devil’s Island ? Isn’t that still a prison, WTH lives in Illinois but don’t hold it against him. Land of Dishonest Abe.

  Posted by blondemike on Mar 30, 2007 at 12:40 PM

  Wolf,

  I’m in northern Illinois — When I graduated from our schools 50 years ago a diploma from here was accredited at any college in the U.S.  Many friends were teachers in the ‘60s and ‘70s, but most took early retirement when offered due to the conditions which followed the lawsuit. Even the man who initiated the suit became disgusted with the handling by the federal court — only the Chicago lawyers made out. (Taxpayers even had to pay the law firm for the time it took to tally their bill — no kidding!)

  Since then, there has been virtually no discipline for fear of a return to fed control. All advanced classes (college honors classes) have been dropped due to mandate that student participation must match population percentages. The number of after school events has been limited by the bus scheduling.

  The last Career Day I participated in I felt like I was going to visit a prison with all the formalities and security checking. I once worked at a military supplier where I was cleared for Secret and went through less red tape.

  I’m all for equal rights and was somewhat sympathetic to the reason for the lawsuit, but the way things turned out is just plain idiotic — the kids are the biggest losers.

  Both you and VTer apparently have a good school situation, but we keep hearing reports of how far ahead other countries educational systems are. A friend whose kids were in grade school in England came back here and we way ahead of the local kids in the basics like math and language, both English and foreign.

  The latest announcements by corporations like Citicorp (10,000 jobs to India)and Haliburton (moving headquarters to Dubai to avoid taxes here) make the future look dismal for even our best educated if they want to remain in the U.S.

  We need a leadership, business and political, with the foresight to realize everything interlocks and compartmentalizing is a bad strategy. Education, economics, jobs, health care, public and international relations should all be addressed in unison for the good of the entire population.
  
  I understand the original need for states rights, but most issues today are not regional in nature. The sub prime mortgages on the two coasts will be felt here in the Midwest before long. The job losses here in the rust belt will disrupt the general economy. The shipping of the labor intensive jobs sets race against race as those who moved here to the factories will need to compete with those newly arrived — legally or illegally. Job losses in the white collar jobs will infect the higher mortgages.

  Posted by whattheheck on Mar 30, 2007 at 1:43 PM

  So you live in Rockford, WTH ? I’m familiar with the suit and a longtime rather critical subscriber to the Chronicles (Rockford Institute.)

  Posted by blondemike on Mar 30, 2007 at 3:28 PM

  BM,

  Rkfd Institute:
  Like so many — they have good intensions and we know where that leads
  --------------------------.

  The suit:
  There were some legitimate complaints, but fed intervention was a disaster. All form and no substance. The operation was a success (we finally met the numbers racially) but the patient died. Our best teachers quit. Our taxes went up. Feel good programs were instituted. Good programs were dropped. Some of the newer schools were closed. New ones built.

  In my opinion there is more anti-black feeling as a result of the special treatment brought on by fear of more gov. involvement.

  Example: Our neighborhood school was used as an illustration of discrimination. PTO had spaghetti dinners and other fund raisers which bought audio-visual equipment. Schools in poorer areas were unable (or chose not to do this). Discrimination!

  That problem was cured — we quit raising funds and did away with neighborhood schools.  We now spend thousands each year on buses, drivers, gas — all of which could have bought enough equipment to film an Oscar winning movie.

  Watch out for, “I’m from the government and I’m here to help you.”

  Posted by whattheheck on Mar 31, 2007 at 7:07 AM

  WTH,

  Your take on N. Illinois school system is interesting if monopolar.  I have some dim recollection of something like 90% of all school funding in Greater Chicago going to administration rather than the classroom.  Do you think this might be a factor more robust than court ordered bussing?

  Here in California, the decline of our school systems can be directly linked to Prop. 13, which froze property taxes on which school funding is based.  Also, a string of Republican governors, beginning with Ronald Raygun, responding to conservative calls for a return to 3R’s education effectively stripping schools of progressive educational methods and programs that were just beginning to show promising results.  Also, refusing to confront the unequal dispensation of funding between poor and wealthy school districts.  Bussing was never much of an issue here.

  Somewhat disengenuous to say that bussing aggravated racist sentiment and leave it at that.  Implying that poor districts ‘chose’ not to run fund-raisers kind of obfuscates the fact that there are few funds to be raised in a poor neighborhood, don’t you think?  One might infer that you are justifying racism.

  Posted by luminous beauty on Mar 31, 2007 at 12:52 PM

  Hi, LB. Been a long time.

  I do think our system is top heavy with administrative jobs and the salaries those jobs pay.  I don’t think it is anywhere near 90% — that is outrageous — better to divide up the funds and let people hire tutors.

  I know some special arts and other programs have been instituted and have no problem with that, but I have also heard sad stories of kids graduating without being able to read above a grade school level or balance a checkbook. Some local companies had started to teach basics like reading in order to get shop workers, but I suspect the loss of some of the larger corporations here has cut that back.

  Just last month there was a photo of a youngster (8th grade I think.) doing math with a calculator. Maybe that’s why a cashier at the super market had no concept of the price on a single item. I had one gallon of milk — nothing else — the scanner had a problem reading the bar code and she then double beeped. I pointed out the price she told me was too high, in fact double. She insisted, “The computer knows the price of everything.” We had to get the manager to referee. Will people even notice when inflation really gets going again?

  I had no intent of justifying anything except the idea that if someone wanted to raise money to buy equipment they should be allowed to without penalty.
  
  My comment,
  “In my opinion there is more anti-black feeling as a result of the special treatment brought on by fear of more gov. involvement.”

  This is based on what I heard people saying post lawsuit and only my opinion, not from any sort of survey. A grade school teacher who I knew caught a black kid in her class stealing from her desk drawer. The principal told her there would be no punishment for him unless she had something justifying equal punishment to a white kid. He didn’t want to give any reason for calling back the federal magistrate to run he district for another dozen years.

  Most people were not happy with the result of the federal mandates and naturally picked out somebody local to blame and the father who brought the suit was a black man.

  With nobody downtown to back them up many of the older teachers took early retirement “50 & out.” They quit after age 50 if they had 20 years in and got to keep their benefits. The district than hired recent grads for less money. 
  This solved another problem of the lawsuit — the unions gave choice of school assignment based on seniority.  The result was the more experienced and perceived to be better teachers kept choosing not to go to the minority neighborhood schools. This gave another reason to start the busing — send the kids to where the teachers were.
  
  Just this year, by popular demand of all parents, neighborhood assignments of kids are making a comeback at middle school and high schools.

  Posted by whattheheck on Mar 31, 2007 at 1:37 PM

  WTH, we’re totally in agreement on that outrageous Federal edict on Rockford schools, the Institute is medieval and anti-libertarian but I totally agreed with them on the suit and busing period. Frankly the suit had no merit, just blacks and lib Jewish lawyers looking for trouble. As usual.
  LB, you ARE FULL OF SHIT. Prop 13 IS THE BEST THING THAT EVER HAPPENED TO CALIFORNIA. That’s why we only pay the outrageous amount of around 3K in property taxes instead of 10K and THEY DON’T DESERVE THAT. Government compulsory education is a bad idea, one of Marx’s prime points in The Communist Manifesto. The Teachers Union consist of ugly old statist-collectivist whores who miseducate and brainwash kids and whose faces look like David Irving’s hemorrhoids on the last in the Vienna prison. You are no more of an anarchist than Noam Chomsky but like him a left dictator loving Marxist-Leninist Statist-Collectivist liar.  It was precisely progressive nonbasic miseducation that wrecked California schools. And produced a situation where many freshmen entering the UC system have to take bonehead english in the summer before regular classes. If all the Oaktown funk schools were closed and the teachers fired and the students transferred to state prison that would be a GREAT thing. Where do you get your Party Line from ? KPFA ? Bay Guardian ? KPFK ? By the way, busing is a huge issue here ! The Chinese fought it and won in Frisco. And violent criminal black thugs have destroyed downtown Berkeley because they were illegally bused from Richmond and although the official program ended downtown Berzerkeley is loaded with rampaging members of the We Be family from both Richmond and Oaktown. The “racist"reaction is a proper reaction to criminal baboons running wild.

  Posted by blondemike on Mar 31, 2007 at 2:40 PM

  Blondemike:

  You are so full of shit we should all start referring to you as “the Toilet”.

  I feel the need to call you out again as both a racist and anti-semite.
  Of course, this is the typical path of someone on the far right: you let a right winger talk long enough and their true colors come to the fore. You have again proven to be highly predictable. Your unhinging comes on cue.

  Just an FYI: Thomas Jefferson believed in public education in order to advance democracy through an informed and educated citizenry. Of course, someone of your far right leanings have NO interest in a concept of democracy when it doesn’t confrom to your warped vision of the world.

  Go back under the rock you crawled from, or your Hitleresque bunker.

  Posted by lams712 on Apr 1, 2007 at 9:55 AM

  Mike, Iams,

  re: education —

  Actually, the father who instituted the suit had some legitimate concerns regarding the conditions at his kid’s school — the building and equipment as well as the inexperience of the staff. I don’t recall (if I in fact ever knew) the details of his approach to the problems — but if the school board and he could have developed a plan to fix it without resorting to the courts, everyone and especially the students would have been better off.

  As it turned out quite early in the process he backed away from the Chicago attorneys and later even opposed their arguments. They knew they had caught he golden goose and squeezed it for $millions.

  Many years ago I read some of Mortimer Adler’s educational philosophy and it seemed a good plan. As I remember he (and Jefferson) believed kids should be taught a common basic curriculum — 3Rs — and later go on with academics or trades.

  I do recall him saying we in the U.S. tend to specialize too early. He believed in a liberal arts college education with a major field as post grad work. With the economy dictating more job changes per individual now than ever before, this makes the most sense to me.

  I sincerely believe the biggest problem with U.S. education is that we treat it as a right or entitlement rather than a privilege. In earlier generations when it was dificult to get an education it was very much appreciated. Today not enough parents place a high value on education, so neither do the kids.

  You often hear it stated that the higher educated people earn more money. But money can be gotten easier ways than by long, hard studying followed by work — so we have games shows, TV poker, river boat gambling, American Idol, or just illegal means as more popular.

  Posted by whattheheck on Apr 1, 2007 at 12:40 PM

  OOOOOOOOHHHHHHHH, little lams has called me some BBBAAADDDDDD names, OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH,
  I incurred little boy blue lam’s disapproval, OOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHH, OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH,

  lams “argument"---"lyyyaaahhh ! raaayyyyssshhiisssttt ! faaayyyssshhiisstt ! naaaarrrzzziii ! neonaaarrrrzzziii ! auntey semenite !

  WWWWWWWWWOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW !
  Really impressive, liberal dude !!!!!!!! Have another doobie while you molest your daughter !

  WTH, I met Adler and have read many of his books. A separate discussion. This posting has to deal with little boy blue lams, he is SSSSOOOO PRECIOUS ! Love him he’s a wiberal and a pwogwessive ! A real shame to have to spank his bare hiney in public.

  Posted by blondemike on Apr 1, 2007 at 2:22 PM

  BM (aka TOILET):

  Nice comeback. Well played you intellectual giant. The king of the ad hominen attack is BACK!!! You get called out for being a racist and anti-semite and you name call. Typical and predictable.

  Keep up the good work BM (Toilet)!!! I must admit you help keep things interesting in a “train wreck” sort of way.

  I know you are frustrated. You have been discredited, disproven, and revealed as a racist, anti-semite, and a hypocrite. I’m sure there are longstanding psychological reasons for your feelings of inadequacy. Thank you from the bottom of my bleeding heart that you chose to have your cathartic meltdowns here. I always enjoy a good laugh.

  Posted by lams712 on Apr 2, 2007 at 7:36 AM

  Ad hominem attacks ? You must be referring to yours above...................
  but this the best you can do ? So sad, yittle boy blue.
  Lams “argument” ------"RRRRAAAAYYYYSSSSHHHIIISSSTT !
  FFFFAAAAAYYYYSSSSHHHIIISSSTTT ! LLLYYYYAAAAHHH !
  Auntey-Semenite ! NNNNNAAARRRRZZZZIIII !”

  WOOOOOOOOOOO ! HHHHEEEAAAAVVVYYY, dude !

  Posted by blondemike on Apr 2, 2007 at 10:29 AM

  WTH, Adler’s written several good books such The Difference Of Man And The Difference It Makes, Ten Philosophical Mistakes, The Four Dimensions of Philosophy and Aristotle For Everyone, just to name a very few. He was an Aristotelian-Thomist and a Jew who converted to Catholicism before he died at age 101 a few years back. Terrible politics, one worlder socialist but good philosophically. Met him during a seminar in SF in 1979. Thanks for the further details of the suit.
  Sorry, I had to deal with LB and Childe Lams above. Take care. Adler also started the Great Books, all 57 volumes.

  Posted by blondemike on Apr 2, 2007 at 10:56 AM

  Keep it coming toilet!!! My drink is coming out of my nose and on to the computer keyboard because I’m laughing so hard!!!

  Posted by lams712 on Apr 2, 2007 at 12:07 PM

  Drinking in the am, yittle Lams ? Sounds serious.................

  Posted by blondemike on Apr 2, 2007 at 12:20 PM

  Mike,

  I think I first heard of Adler in connection with the Great Books. I have read a couple of his books including Aristotle for Every Man and I think I may have read a biography, but it may have been bio info in one of his other books.

  An interesting person to listen to on a wide range of subjects (he was on Chicago radio quite often). His thinking was far more independent than most, but his one-world views, as with all of those socialist dreamers, ignores basic human traits (both the good and the bad) — love, hate, greed, independence, sloth, dominance, intelligence, idiocy…

  Mostly I liked his thoughts on education which I thought showed more realism and practicality.

  Posted by whattheheck on Apr 3, 2007 at 7:20 AM

  I agree with you here. He was for the educational basics, the traditional three R’s plus philosophy and he wrote for the general public, not the unreadable cretins in academia. You might want to go to his site called The Radical Academy, run by an associate named Dr. Jonathan Dolhenty. He’s a libertarian conservative, more agreeable politics than Dr. Adler but the same clear writing style and forthright views. Like Adler he doesn’t heistate to criticize philosophical sacred cows like Kant and Hume.

  Posted by blondemike on Apr 3, 2007 at 10:04 AM

  Mike,

  Sailor’s account of the Obama “Dream” book is about what I got from reading between the lines several in several reviews.  I voted for him in the primaries for his last election — as usual the opposition was pathetic — I seldom vote FOR anyone due to the poor selections on the menu.

  He is obviously more intelligent than the average candidate, but then, so was Bill Clinton. He is politically savvy (or possibly street wise), but I hope there is more to him than the superficial picture in his books.

  I honestly think it is too soon for him to be president, but perhaps he will force discussion of the issues of real concern to most of us.  The congress and media seem to be taking taking their play book from the virtual reality shows. Too much of C-SPAN’s congressional hearings has a surreal quality to it. Teddy sucks up the camera time, candidates get in some free exposure and too few serious questions are lost to side issues and the blame game.
  
  The war has become just another political contest. The Social Security & Medicare issue takes a back seat to “Here comes (There goes) the Judge.” Economic bubbles have decimated many retirement plans and household spending is our bubble of last resort. My friends are among those feeling the squeeze of the globalization gravy train hauling the wealthy to new heights.

  What to call someone, which is so important to the politically correct clan, avoids the truly relevant — developing genuine mutual respect. My son’s black friends call each other “Nigger” like I might say to a friend, “Hey, you dumb Swede...” It’s not the WHAT is the HOW it is said that counts.

  The racial conflict covered in this article is about to be superseded by common cause as we face the larger divide of the lost middle class. Blacks who were able to provide a good home for their families in U.S. manufacturing and whites whose white collar jobs are emigrating to Asia may find we have more in common than we ever knew.

  Posted by whattheheck on Apr 4, 2007 at 6:52 AM

  “Nigger” is the preferred way blacks in Oakland address one another. I would have voted for Obama against that nut Alan Keyes too.

  Posted by blondemike on Apr 4, 2007 at 1:03 PM

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