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Yeah this article nails it. The problem is not with blacks as individuals, but rather the systematic discrimination against all non-whites in the US. Having babies out of wedlock, dropping out of school, doing drugs, etc are not really bad, it is merely the white racism that continues to hold the black man down. Cosby is just an Uncle Tom who made it big and refuses to see that personal responsibility has nothing to do with how a black mans life turns out, since the white racists will hold him down anyway, most likely due to “bigger penis” envy. The only solution is reparations for all blacks, which should amount to at least $1 Million per black household, plus another Million for the black men who deserted the households above (again due to the white racist society in which we live). Plus all blacks should be released from prison, since we know the only reason they are there is the white justice system is so very racist. Sure they may have shot their estranged wives or robbed a liquor store, but it was the white man that made these things happen, due to institutional racism. Really, when you think about it, the black man is completely helpless under our white dominated society, which will not offer him any breaks at all.
I think we can all agree that the US is the worst of all nations and the African nations are the best. If not for the interference of the white man in Africa, it would be even more of a paradise than it is now.
Salim, thanks for setting things straight, once again! It is always very amusing and enlightening to read your stuff!
Posted by wolf on Dec 13, 2007 at 9:17 AM
Wolf’s sarcasm is exactly what the critics of Cosby’s and Williams’ advice seem to be willing to accept as a part of the community’s complexity and vital cultural expressions.
Muwakkil charges, “For Cosby and others of his ilk
Posted by whattheheck on Dec 13, 2007 at 9:52 AM
“Rap is a scapegoat not just for generational reasons, but also because it is a class-bound, cultural product of America
Posted by Kuya on Dec 13, 2007 at 9:50 PM
I think some of Cosby’s criticisms should be taken seriously. I do think the Juan Williams book is nonsense.
Posted by cabdriverinchicago on Dec 16, 2007 at 11:28 AM
People like Wolf wear blinders when it comes to race. His sarcasm betrays an intellectual shallowness unfit for a serious publication such as In These Times. I would suggest that Wolf confine his racist views to that sanctuary of rightwing dead-enders called Fox News Nethwork. I
Posted by monomotapa on Dec 16, 2007 at 8:37 PM
monomotapa post is amusing, but full of silliness. To dismiss those who like Cosby (and myself) believe that we are not helpless, that we can affect our own lives in a positive way, is both sad and typical of the old left. The attempt at personal assassination is quite telling, oftentimes when one cannot defend ones own beliefs, they take another tack and attack the *person* who expresses beliefs that are unpleasant to themselves.
There really can be little doubt that *many* of the poor - regardless of race - are poor due to poor life choices. The big ones are: having children out of marriage, dropping out of school and abuse of drugs. These life choices cause much of the poverty - again regardless of race - that afflict our country. The solution to poverty is not found in the politics of race, rather it will be found by addressing the causes, rather than the symptoms.
Anyway, since i was amused by monomotapa, i thought i would attempt a dictionary of his lexicon, such as it is. . . :)
racial hate == thinking black people should accept responsibility for their lives
(I wonder, is racial treason the same as racial hate, but when assigned to a black person?)
intellectual shallowness == not agreeing with folks like monomotapa
stupidity == assigning false political party membership/opinions to other posters here
I would suggest that folks like monomotapa both develop a sense of humor and read a bit more widely.
Posted by wolf on Dec 17, 2007 at 8:06 AM
—COSBY IS DISTRACTING US FROM THE REAL SOLUTION!!!—
Institutions designed to preserve and maintain power and privilege for white people are the primary source of the black teen problems Cosby identifies. Dismantling and restructuring these institutions to serve the interests of a diverse population is the solution. Nothing short of that will ever result in any sustainable progress.
But wouldn
Posted by peace_out on Dec 17, 2007 at 11:29 AM
So peace_out i assume that you are advocating that black people, especially teens, do not even play the game, since it is rigged? Or do you have concrete suggestions to help them do better in todays world?
My suggestions are:
1) Do not have children at a young age (before you have a job that can pay for children, at least)
2) Do not have children until married
3) Finish high school
4) Avoid drug abuse
All of the above can be done regardless of ones race. What are your suggestions? (Wait until society is “fair”, perhaps? Or far worse, have a “revolution” and burn cars, kill people etc?)
Posted by wolf on Dec 17, 2007 at 1:29 PM
Peace,
I can agree with your point 1.) in part.
All kids, regardless of race, are likely to have the problems you list if parents are uninvolved.
Our past government programs gave the illusion of aid, but contributed to the disintegration of families and the ethical and responsibility standards which were dominant during the upward movement of our society as a whole.
Over the past several decades the middle and lower classes have actually lost purchasing power even with more people per household working. Male or female if you center your life on making money (whether out of need or greed) any children will not get the guidance when required. “Quality Time” cannot make up for being there at the necessary time.
We have been in a class struggle without most of us even noticing. According to a U.S. Census Bureau report, Changes in Median Household Income: 1969 to 1996,
this is the percentage of increase…
Posted by whattheheck on Dec 19, 2007 at 7:04 AM
Question to the believers of the theory that the system is setup to maintain and keep non whites out of the power structure.
How does this apply to Jews, Chinese, and East Indians? They don’t seen to succum to the I am the victim who has not chance to succeed in this society because the system is stacked against me. What most they seem to do is apply the focus that Cosby is advocating, educating your childern , Family values, and taking advantage of what this society offers and not focusing on the negative.
Posted by mamba on Dec 22, 2007 at 10:39 AM
It seems to me to be totally rational to both:
1) understand that the tragedy of urban America owes it’s nihilism and poverty to our country’s historic abuse of black humans (slavery, Jim Crow, latent institutional bias) and thus requires sweeping, multi-tiered action on all levels of our elected government(s) and by our cultural icons to remedy, and
2) Hold parents responsible for the upbringing of their children. I fail to see a moral paradox in Cosby “calling out” the parents who let their children down in ways which now ache with cliche (teen pregnancy, absent/incarcerated fathers, cultivating values of violence and materialism, etc.). The only danger is in the abandonment of efforts to implement systemic change in exchange for a posture of finger-wagging at the baffled black underclass. But since real systemic change addressing our history of racism is pretty non-existent, I see no reason to refuse to call a bad parent a bad parent after all.
But if frustration with that fact is grating your brain like part-skim mozzarella, check out circlesofinfluence.net and say something intelligent.
Posted by circumference on Jan 14, 2008 at 6:40 PM
“Their major targets are the rap videos that specialize in sexually objectified or “hootchified” images of black women. But the hip-hop attitude of “keeping it real” and reflecting the ethos of the street is the true focus of their ire.”
While I agree with much of the rest of the article, I find this statement troubling. Yes, there has been class conflict since the time of W.E.B. Du Bois and Booker T. Washington. But I believe that the real target of these protesters’ “ire” is indeed the marginalization of a viewpoint that doesn’t objectify women on the cable network. BET is a large media conglomeration that (too) often airs music videos that are gross. And by gross, I mean “women-as-possesions/spoils of newfound wealth” gross.
Sexism in black community has been hard-fought by black peeple of different classes, so to somehow jump from this protest scene to the black version of white flight says one or both of the following: 1)author truly believes that somehow the degradation of women is somehow bound up in the attitude of “keeping it real.” 2) That only middle class blacks care about sexism. I don’t want to believe that the author meant either of those things.
Posted by mt00 on Jan 21, 2008 at 1:40 AM
It’s ridiculous how blacks, latin’s will continue to blame the white man, blame upper and middle class and blame anyone but themselves. Bill Crosby is right and say what needs to be said. I am a latin american, I grew up in Newark,NJ in a very very bad area. My father came here with very little money, supported a family of 3 kids, worked during the day and went to college at night, it was a struggle. He got us “out of the ghetto” taught us values and helped us live, his parents died when he was 17, he learned English in the old country and worked his ass off to get here and make it. How can a foreigner who self taught himself English and raised a family and now lives in a beautiful home in the suburbs with a career make it, but other lower-income individuals can not?? I lived in the hood, I know, and we got out, because of hard work, what does blaming other people get you? NOTHING, stop looking back and look forward, create value in yourself, and focus on living a better life. This is the land of opportunity and some how it’s glorified in hip hop to be a gangstar, have 10 kids with no dad and live off of welfare, it’s b.s and I am living proof as well as my father that you can make it, and it’s not by blaming everyone, blame yourself for not doing anything to make your life better. I am sick of it, I love Bill Cosby for speaking the truth, and not blaming the world.
Posted by simplylogic on Mar 14, 2010 at 1:14 PM
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Reader Comments
Yeah this article nails it. The problem is not with blacks as individuals, but rather the systematic discrimination against all non-whites in the US. Having babies out of wedlock, dropping out of school, doing drugs, etc are not really bad, it is merely the white racism that continues to hold the black man down. Cosby is just an Uncle Tom who made it big and refuses to see that personal responsibility has nothing to do with how a black mans life turns out, since the white racists will hold him down anyway, most likely due to “bigger penis” envy. The only solution is reparations for all blacks, which should amount to at least $1 Million per black household, plus another Million for the black men who deserted the households above (again due to the white racist society in which we live). Plus all blacks should be released from prison, since we know the only reason they are there is the white justice system is so very racist. Sure they may have shot their estranged wives or robbed a liquor store, but it was the white man that made these things happen, due to institutional racism. Really, when you think about it, the black man is completely helpless under our white dominated society, which will not offer him any breaks at all.
I think we can all agree that the US is the worst of all nations and the African nations are the best. If not for the interference of the white man in Africa, it would be even more of a paradise than it is now.
Salim, thanks for setting things straight, once again! It is always very amusing and enlightening to read your stuff!
Wolf’s sarcasm is exactly what the critics of Cosby’s and Williams’ advice seem to be willing to accept as a part of the community’s complexity and vital cultural expressions.
Muwakkil charges, “For Cosby and others of his ilk
“Rap is a scapegoat not just for generational reasons, but also because it is a class-bound, cultural product of America
I think some of Cosby’s criticisms should be taken seriously. I do think the Juan Williams book is nonsense.
People like Wolf wear blinders when it comes to race. His sarcasm betrays an intellectual shallowness unfit for a serious publication such as In These Times. I would suggest that Wolf confine his racist views to that sanctuary of rightwing dead-enders called Fox News Nethwork. I
monomotapa post is amusing, but full of silliness. To dismiss those who like Cosby (and myself) believe that we are not helpless, that we can affect our own lives in a positive way, is both sad and typical of the old left. The attempt at personal assassination is quite telling, oftentimes when one cannot defend ones own beliefs, they take another tack and attack the *person* who expresses beliefs that are unpleasant to themselves.
There really can be little doubt that *many* of the poor - regardless of race - are poor due to poor life choices. The big ones are: having children out of marriage, dropping out of school and abuse of drugs. These life choices cause much of the poverty - again regardless of race - that afflict our country. The solution to poverty is not found in the politics of race, rather it will be found by addressing the causes, rather than the symptoms.
Anyway, since i was amused by monomotapa, i thought i would attempt a dictionary of his lexicon, such as it is. . . :)
racial hate == thinking black people should accept responsibility for their lives
(I wonder, is racial treason the same as racial hate, but when assigned to a black person?)
intellectual shallowness == not agreeing with folks like monomotapa
stupidity == assigning false political party membership/opinions to other posters here
I would suggest that folks like monomotapa both develop a sense of humor and read a bit more widely.
—COSBY IS DISTRACTING US FROM THE REAL SOLUTION!!!—
Institutions designed to preserve and maintain power and privilege for white people are the primary source of the black teen problems Cosby identifies. Dismantling and restructuring these institutions to serve the interests of a diverse population is the solution. Nothing short of that will ever result in any sustainable progress.
But wouldn
So peace_out i assume that you are advocating that black people, especially teens, do not even play the game, since it is rigged? Or do you have concrete suggestions to help them do better in todays world?
My suggestions are:
1) Do not have children at a young age (before you have a job that can pay for children, at least)
2) Do not have children until married
3) Finish high school
4) Avoid drug abuse
All of the above can be done regardless of ones race. What are your suggestions? (Wait until society is “fair”, perhaps? Or far worse, have a “revolution” and burn cars, kill people etc?)
Peace,
I can agree with your point 1.) in part.
All kids, regardless of race, are likely to have the problems you list if parents are uninvolved.
Our past government programs gave the illusion of aid, but contributed to the disintegration of families and the ethical and responsibility standards which were dominant during the upward movement of our society as a whole.
Over the past several decades the middle and lower classes have actually lost purchasing power even with more people per household working. Male or female if you center your life on making money (whether out of need or greed) any children will not get the guidance when required. “Quality Time” cannot make up for being there at the necessary time.
We have been in a class struggle without most of us even noticing. According to a U.S. Census Bureau report, Changes in Median Household Income: 1969 to 1996,
this is the percentage of increase…
Question to the believers of the theory that the system is setup to maintain and keep non whites out of the power structure.
How does this apply to Jews, Chinese, and East Indians? They don’t seen to succum to the I am the victim who has not chance to succeed in this society because the system is stacked against me. What most they seem to do is apply the focus that Cosby is advocating, educating your childern , Family values, and taking advantage of what this society offers and not focusing on the negative.
It seems to me to be totally rational to both:
1) understand that the tragedy of urban America owes it’s nihilism and poverty to our country’s historic abuse of black humans (slavery, Jim Crow, latent institutional bias) and thus requires sweeping, multi-tiered action on all levels of our elected government(s) and by our cultural icons to remedy, and
2) Hold parents responsible for the upbringing of their children. I fail to see a moral paradox in Cosby “calling out” the parents who let their children down in ways which now ache with cliche (teen pregnancy, absent/incarcerated fathers, cultivating values of violence and materialism, etc.). The only danger is in the abandonment of efforts to implement systemic change in exchange for a posture of finger-wagging at the baffled black underclass. But since real systemic change addressing our history of racism is pretty non-existent, I see no reason to refuse to call a bad parent a bad parent after all.
But if frustration with that fact is grating your brain like part-skim mozzarella, check out circlesofinfluence.net and say something intelligent.
“Their major targets are the rap videos that specialize in sexually objectified or “hootchified” images of black women. But the hip-hop attitude of “keeping it real” and reflecting the ethos of the street is the true focus of their ire.”
While I agree with much of the rest of the article, I find this statement troubling. Yes, there has been class conflict since the time of W.E.B. Du Bois and Booker T. Washington. But I believe that the real target of these protesters’ “ire” is indeed the marginalization of a viewpoint that doesn’t objectify women on the cable network. BET is a large media conglomeration that (too) often airs music videos that are gross. And by gross, I mean “women-as-possesions/spoils of newfound wealth” gross.
Sexism in black community has been hard-fought by black peeple of different classes, so to somehow jump from this protest scene to the black version of white flight says one or both of the following: 1)author truly believes that somehow the degradation of women is somehow bound up in the attitude of “keeping it real.” 2) That only middle class blacks care about sexism. I don’t want to believe that the author meant either of those things.
It’s ridiculous how blacks, latin’s will continue to blame the white man, blame upper and middle class and blame anyone but themselves. Bill Crosby is right and say what needs to be said. I am a latin american, I grew up in Newark,NJ in a very very bad area. My father came here with very little money, supported a family of 3 kids, worked during the day and went to college at night, it was a struggle. He got us “out of the ghetto” taught us values and helped us live, his parents died when he was 17, he learned English in the old country and worked his ass off to get here and make it. How can a foreigner who self taught himself English and raised a family and now lives in a beautiful home in the suburbs with a career make it, but other lower-income individuals can not?? I lived in the hood, I know, and we got out, because of hard work, what does blaming other people get you? NOTHING, stop looking back and look forward, create value in yourself, and focus on living a better life. This is the land of opportunity and some how it’s glorified in hip hop to be a gangstar, have 10 kids with no dad and live off of welfare, it’s b.s and I am living proof as well as my father that you can make it, and it’s not by blaming everyone, blame yourself for not doing anything to make your life better. I am sick of it, I love Bill Cosby for speaking the truth, and not blaming the world.
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