Millions of Americans are anxious about and even opposed to the American war on Iraq and to the bloody occupation that has followed it. But for Stan Goff, it’s personal. A career soldier and Vietnam veteran, Goff is an organizer of Bring Them Home Now, a fledgling movement of hundreds of relatives of U.S. troops in Iraq who say their family… return to article
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Reader Comments (263)I have a grandson in the military,while he doesnt agree with this war he can not speak out ,Its up to us to be their voice.We will send our young to die for years to come for corporate America ,who cares not for you ,me, or our children.
Posted by Joan Vaughn on Sep 5, 2003 at 4:56 PM As I stood with other activists for months in raining and freezing weather, we were yelled at and even called unpatriotic for our opposition to war. Many times we felt intimidated by such hostility.
Now to see the real courage of our young troops to tell it like it really is, that is very brave and the families must be heartbroken and scared for their beloved children.
Please continue because it is your voices, the ones in war and their families that will finally awaken the American people and please, God, spare the lives of all the suffering people in Iraq.
Posted by Dorothy Latour on Sep 5, 2003 at 5:26 PM As a combat veteran of World War 2,)Battle of Luzon), I find it disturbing major news agencies are not reporting daily, the casualties being suffered in Iraq.
During World War 2, the Korean War, and Viet Nam, newspapers, as a matter of course, listed those killed in action, wounded in action and the missing.
There is such a cozy relationship between Rumsfield and the press corps, that those briefings, when they are held, are a disgrace.
To the press and the administration, For Shame!
Posted by Robert Raisor on Sep 5, 2003 at 6:18 PM It seems like a lot of people try to make you feel as if you are “unamerican” or “unpatriotic” if you do not support the war. I am glad to hear Vets speak out against the horrorible war the Bush Regime dragged us into. I don’t think Bush has made the world any safer by removing Saddam. In fact, his actions have probably fueled more hatred toward America in the middle east. Hats off to everyone who opposed the war.
Posted by WARREN COOKSEY on Sep 5, 2003 at 6:51 PM I totally support bringing the troops home. However, please excuse my naivete, but what is stopping the soldiers quit if they feel strongly that they are fighting an unjust war?
Posted by Daniel Camancho on Sep 5, 2003 at 11:47 PM I totally support bringing the troops home. However, please excuse my naivete, but what is stopping the soldiers from quitting if they feel strongly that they are fighting an unjust war?
Posted by Daniel Camancho on Sep 5, 2003 at 11:49 PM Thank you, Mr. Goff. I’m still in shock that in the 21st century, when we are supposed to be civilized people, a very inadequate fellow, who was not an elected leader, could take a fearful country to war just so he could feel like a man. The people who never took the trouble to find out why we were going to war look bad. The politicians who submerged all their principles to the hysteria of the moment look bad. only a few souls who know that violence solves nothing look good. My faith in humanity is shaken, but not wrecked. Perhaps this awful George Bush can be a cautionary tale for future generations and that would be good. We have wondered for many years how the Germans could have fallen for a beast like Hitler. Now we have seen how a couple of destroyed buildings could cause a fearful country to follow blindly into a foolish and stupid war. How terrible that it took thousands of lives for us to gain some insight.
Posted by james on Sep 6, 2003 at 4:27 AM Mr. Goff: You should be on the Defense Policy Board Advisory Committee and the Bush twins should be in Iraq with their butts under fire.
Thank you.
Posted by Karen Meador on Sep 6, 2003 at 10:58 AM I support you and your cause. This war is immoral and should never have been started. The problem I have with the families of our troops in Iraq is that they were cheering and waving the flag along with other Americans when the Iraqi people were sitting ducks for our cruise missiles and laser guiided bombs. Now that the tables are turned the are we see the error of our ways. We must oppose the things on principle not on results when they dont go bad. We will never change the world at the point of a gun . we must lead by example, a “‘city set on a hill” as Christ put it. Godn bless you.
Posted by Mike Ross on Sep 6, 2003 at 2:08 PM My husband is currently serving in Iraq. I, too, thought this was a just war at the beginning. My view has changed, and not because of how badly it is going. My view changed when I read into the history of the Iran/Iraq war and what hand the American government played in it and I was VERY surprised.
Another reason I changed my view is how much information started filtering out on lies the Administration has told and contiunues to try to maintain. Problem is, they have told so many they can’t seem to keep their story straight anymore. Bush may be President but Rumsfeld is calling the shots and he doesn’t care one iota about those troops. I noticed today that while he was talking to troops in Iraq that he had to put his hand out forst to be shaken about 98% of the time. Those troops do not respect this addministration. They know they were lied to and misled. My husband told me this in a recent phone call: I am a soldier. I am a military man. My job was to come fight a war. I did. My job is over now. I am not a peace-keeper or a rebuilder of a country. My job is done, I am ready to come home.“And he is right. These guys are NOT peace-keepers. That was not their job to accomplish. It’s time for them to come home, NOW.
Posted by Sherry Conroy on Sep 6, 2003 at 3:35 PM Bravo! People are willing to stake the lives on the most trivial things. The invasion of your country just invoke a deep instinct of survival. In my country thousands have studied and worked in the US. We often would like to see the US win but the recent war are making us rethink our stance. Just get the leaders see the futility of the venture and start draiwng back your chlidren so that all mankind can prosper and live in harmony.
Posted by red tahar on Sep 6, 2003 at 4:23 PM Bush is the greatest menace to mankind since Adolph Hitler. Don’t get me wrong: I have nothing against him that I would not also have against Attila the Hun or Ivan the Terrible. I would be satisfied is he and his henchmen were impeached and removed, also personally, I think he should be castrated with a rusty spoon! Lorena Bobbit can perform the deed!
Posted by Jerry Greenberg on Sep 6, 2003 at 9:13 PM Bush, the incompetent, was so eager to get the invasion of Iraq underway that he deliberately bypassed the U.N and traditional friends like Canada who were unconvinced with his bogus assertions (such as the link between Saddam and al Queda). Now, those of you in the States who weren’t paying attention and simply went along with the patriotic fervor are realizing what the rest of the world already knew - Bush and his gang had no idea what they were getting into. Indeed, Bush’s war on terror is being conducted exactly 180 degrees opposite of what should be done. By the way, where is bin Laden?
Posted by Robin Westin on Sep 6, 2003 at 9:54 PM Thank you Mr. Goff. As a patriotic American, I am absolutely appalled at what Bush, Cheny, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Pearle and a few other neo cons have done. American soldiers being killed in a war concocted by these people, some holding dual citizenship and NOT especially having americas interest in the forefront.
When I think of the maimed vets in our VA hospitals, and elderley vets barely getting by because of our governments malfeasance in funding programs for our vets I am outraged. I become more incensed when I read that Bush and our traitorous, vote seeking politicians gave Israel 1 out of every eight dollars of Bushs orgininal war budget yet have CUT benefits for our soldiers and their familes, vets as well as cutting raises for federal AMERICAN workers. How dare they sned this kind of money to ANY foreign country when our own see their criticals programs cut! IMO, these politicians are a shameful, self-serving lot that care not at all about our soldiers, vets and needy. Instead they only seek empowerment and will roll over to foreign country lobbies so they can stay in office. They are shameful.
Posted by chet powin on Sep 7, 2003 at 12:47 AM Very good story. I have a son in iraq who has been there since feb. I never agreed with the reasons for this war. It is time to speak out and bring our troops home. Let Bush and gang supply their own security and stop using the Military to protect big business none of the soldiers or middle class americans will see a dime of.
Posted by lourdes green on Sep 7, 2003 at 2:32 AM Thank you all. I’m sorry your sons and daughters are over there—it’s awful and a slap in the face at what democracy is all about.
I’m proud of you for speaking out and wish all of you and yours well. Let’s vote out this SOB and his buddies this next election.
Posted by neil on Sep 7, 2003 at 3:28 AM As an ex 82nd airborne troop I know a little about whats going on over there. They should never have been sent there in the first place.PROTEST THIS WAR..PROTEST THIS ADMINISTRATION ... PROTEST INJUSTICE AT HOME AND ABROAD.
Posted by Donald Minasian on Sep 7, 2003 at 3:30 AM Astute article. Right on target. Bring them home now. No one should die for their lies.
Posted by A Prien on Sep 7, 2003 at 5:00 AM I had a strange feeling that this administration did not think this through before invading Iraq. Both my spouse and I served in the Navy. My husband and I feel that the U.S. had no business in Iraq. Did Saddam Hussein need to go? You bet your bank account he did!! I have one more thing to say:
GET OUR PEOPLE OUT OF IRAQ NOW. One more death of our soldiers is too many. Thanks.
Posted by E W Keller on Sep 7, 2003 at 5:30 AM Isn’t it interesting that King Georgie is now groveling at the U.N. for help to clean up his mess. Thank God, Germany and France are still telling him to grow up. One of the saddest outcomes of this administration’s fallacies is the total sellout of the once respectful warrior—- Colin Powell.
Posted by ccrews on Sep 7, 2003 at 12:31 PM A telling gesture:
When Bush was about to go out to announce the beginning of the invasion he was caught on camera (but never broadcast in the US - I think it went out just once on a BBC feed) he was prancing around backstage and pumping his fist going “Feels good! Feels good!”Looks like we’ve got a closet Cheerleader-In-Chief, and I’m sure not saluting.
Posted by Jeff King on Sep 7, 2003 at 1:21 PM I understand your trouble in this war and the wish of people to get loved ones home. But what about Irak? Leaving gangsters paradise and civil war behind?
Not alone GeorgeW. needs to grow up….........
Posted by Mike on Sep 7, 2003 at 2:06 PM The mess in Iraq is bad enough.
What is worse in my opinion is that a noble democracy has morally decayed so far, with unelected Presidents and wars backed by such blatant lies.
This is NOT a shining example of democracy to the rest of the civilized world.
Posted by Patrick on Sep 7, 2003 at 3:22 PM This article says what so many of us feel….the whole mess over in the Mdl East is nothing but an ego trip for the powerful Elite who think they need to run the world and keep all of us under control. Bring our military home, because the damage to them is already done..and they will reap a lifetime of sickness and ill health. We need to hold everyone in D.C. who is behind this treason to be tried and hung! They sure haven’t been for America First!! Betrayal in high offices.
Posted by Warren on Sep 7, 2003 at 6:17 PM I am one of the co-founders of Military Families Speak Out and I would like to invite you to check out our links, please join us and Bring Our Troops Home Now: http://www.mfso.org, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MilitaryFamiliesSpeakOut/ and http://www.bringthemhomenow.com/
Posted by Jeff McKenzie on Sep 7, 2003 at 8:11 PM I have great compassion for our troops and their families as they face such precarious circumstances. Whereas, I am very disappointed and angry at those “elected” and “appointed” ones who have abused this country’s resources.
My family and friends who are or have served in the military did not understand why I joined with millions of others in January, February and March to protest this administration’s policies. Now, however, I believe enough bits and pieces of the truth are being pulled out by those of us who are joining together to demand it that our citizens are starting to wake up.
Though it may not seem so, “the people” can still be in charge,...as it should be in a democracy. We just have to encourage one another to exercise the power we have to speak and to vote.
I hope participants in this forum plan to join in the October 25th march on Washington. For those who seek more info/contacts, see http://www.internationalanswer.org
Posted by Leslee Hamrick on Sep 7, 2003 at 9:07 PM good story…plz continue the struggle for justice!!!
Posted by Shahid Khatri on Sep 7, 2003 at 11:42 PM People I know who to this day believe our involvement in Vietnam was justified say our invasion and occupation of Iraq aren’t.
Posted by Rick Knee on Sep 8, 2003 at 12:35 AM I fully agree with Mike Ross and his comments. USA shouldn’t have gone to Afghanistan and Irak in the first place but since they paid deaf ears to practically all the rest of the world and disregarded other countries’ opinions with absolute arrogance and contempt, perhaps they should learn being the mightiest power doesn’t give them the right to push everyone around. I am sorry for the soldiers but I am also sorry for the innocent victims they considered mere “casualties”. I have never understood the meaning of a War being Cold, war never is, it is full of blood, fear and harm for both sides, and a good business for a third party which is always in the shadows.
Posted by Maria L. Etchart on Sep 8, 2003 at 5:52 AM Another tragic situation expressed in a most modest and compassionate manner. I pray for your success in penetrating the blindness and lack of compassion and decency displayed by this administration and too many American people.
Posted by Floyd Nelson on Sep 9, 2003 at 6:14 AM I WATCHED THIS ON C-SPAN THIS MORN AND WROTE REP. WATERS THANKING HER FOR THE COURTESY SHE EXTENDED. I DID ASK HER ABOUT THE COMMENT THAT THERE WERE PEOPLE IN CONGRESS AFRAID OF OPPOSING THE WAR AND AS I TOLD HER, WE HAVE OUR YOUNG PEOPLE OVER THERE SOME OF THEM WILL MAKE THE SUPREME SACRIFICE AND THE POLITICIANS ARE AFRAID TO OPEN THEIR MOUTHS. THEY SIT IN NICE AIR CONDITIONED OFFICES, HAVE ALL THE PERKS, DON’T MISS A MEAL AND GIVE THEMSELVES A RAISE IF THEY NEED IT OR NOT..THEY ARE AFRAID OF BEING LABELED OR DISCRIMINATED AGAINST. WELL PEOPLE…COME ON OUT AND WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD. NOW…WHEN ELECTION TIME COMES AROUND AGAIN, LETS MAKE SURE THEY ARE NOT RE-ELECTED. FOR SURE THEY WILL NEVER HAVE TO WORK FOR A LIVING, BUT THEN…WHAT ARE THEY DOING NOW…I AM 66, EX SERVICEMAN AND THIS HAS BECOME PERSONAL WITH ME AS I HAVE A GRANDSON WITH THE 82ND, MY BROTHERS OLD UNIT WHO HAS JUST BEEN SENT TO IRAQ…FOR SURE YOU WILL NOT SEE A BODYBAG WITH BUSH, RUMSFIELD, ASHCROFT, PERLE, WOLFOWITZ, CHENEY AND ETC..ON IT…IT DOES TAKE THE POOR TO DO THE JOB, THEY ARE FIGHTING EVERYDAY HERE AT HOME TO MAKE IT…
ROBERT D. DAILY
Posted by ROBERT D. DAILY on Sep 11, 2003 at 6:59 PM I understand the wrries of all family regarding the fact of having thier sons and daughter out in a pklace where there is no security and so much danger for them. My son is a marine he has been in Irak for almost four month. My life is full of worreies, specially that I can not communicate with him or know what is he going through. He son is only six month now, he has been growing without a father next to him. His wife is also a marine. Many times she has to look for a person to take care of her baby while she has to be at night duties. We hear news of all those tragedies and we paray God that my son will be fine and is not the dead soldier on the news. God bless our troops and I WANT MY SON BACK WITH ME AND HIS FAMILY.
Posted by Migdalia Lugo on Sep 15, 2003 at 3:21 PM Its kinda of funny to see the military families that sit here and believe what this guy is telling you. I am sorry but a true military spouse,mom,dad etc would not believe such nonsense especially from a group that is so communist that hates this country known as International Answer. I support my fiance 100% in this war against terriorism. You all need to wake up! these ppl support sadam,usama etc. wake up before you get our men and women into big time trouble. it will be on your conscience when they end up in military prison. God bless our Troops,God bless our President and god bless our country.
Utahski a proud supporter of her man hooooah!!!!
Posted by Military fiance on Sep 17, 2003 at 4:28 AM They should get out of of Iraq, and let it be an independent nation. Who are we to foist on the people our chosen president, Chalabi, who is wanted in Jordan. Who are we to bring in our businesses, and declare ourselves the middle man for the oil. Who are we to have the pipelines bring oil to Israel. We must work our differences out with these people equitably. The group of soldiers they have in Iraq now have been used, and treated unfairly. They are not trained for combat, but are still facing it. We are trying to fight too many wars on borrowed fiat money. President Bush is trying to push his Dad’s goal of a New World Order. Hitler also made an attempt at this, and used the same rhetoric. Old ideas seem to never die, but to spring up within the most surprising circles. We’ve got bridges to mend, and we better start soon.
Posted by Bobby on Sep 17, 2003 at 9:15 AM Military Fiance, you’re maybe one in 10 that is for this war. When it started, maybe 1/3 of the comments would have been like yours but now that’s not happening.
And people who tend to think along party lines are speaking out against this war.
I don’t see how killing other people to make sure gas doesn’t climb over $2 a gallon so the SUVs can continue to roll and the powers that illegally are now can stay in office is just. America is supposed to be better than that and I’ll turn my back ANY DAY to the flag as long as that son-of-a-bitch is still in the White House killing innocent people for his own agenda.
Viet Nam II.
Posted by neil on Sep 17, 2003 at 11:55 PM It appears that “Military fiance” has been brainwashed by some hate radio or talk into believing pure communism actually exists or existed. People get pulled into fearing these empty concepts an awful lot even though it is completely irrational and totally emotional string-pulling.
“Communism”, like “socialism”, “oligarchy”, “democracy”, etc. are merely theories of governance. Each has taken the form of an experiment during the course of history. All these experiments in forms of government have had problems, shortfalls or suffered at the hands of abusive leaders/rulers, certainly including our own democracy.
So, I really wish people would stop being manipulated by those who use fear as a means of control.
BE PATRIOTIC - - THINK!!!!
Moreover, decide which is more patriotic:
A. Loyalty to some party or ideology (which limits an individual’s potential to think beyond a very small box)
OR
B. Notwithstanding your particular beliefs, commit to “the people” in this nation in an effort to cultivate that experiment called a democracy
Posted by Leslee Hamrick on Sep 20, 2003 at 6:44 AM I was on to this carpetbagging buffoon from TX, via conneticutt way before he stole the election with his corporate criminal brother in fla. I spent six years in the navy, 2/74 - 4/80, I’m glad I did it, but happy to be out. As for my son, until Duh-b-ya got elected I thought nothing of him enlisting. Now I don’t care how old he gets, if he can’t find a job in this rotting economy, he can damn well stay home with us. Anything to keep him out of the military while these idiots are in charge, if they bring back the draft, I’ll send him money to live on in the free country of his choice. 11/2/04 should have a meaning for these traitors, the date they will be deposed, and brought up on charges in front of tribunals.
Posted by Ronnie on Sep 22, 2003 at 11:22 AM I have someone Very special to me serving in Iraq. He has currently lost his job and other job opportunities here in the states. It is Heart breaking for me to watch the news on a daily basis and see the outrageous amount of US soldiers dying, and wondering if he is ok, counting the hours until he can E-mail me a quick note to let me know he is ok, sometimes it takes days. He was supposed to come back home in august, then he was told in november for sure, and now we are facing 6 more months to this never ending drama. It is not easy for the people they leave behind, us, here dealing with the uncertain future of our loved ones, there. Praying constatly for their safe return, back home, to their normal lives
Posted by L.Diaz on Sep 22, 2003 at 11:46 AM Vietnam. well well well you know what i guess you really do want to give up your freedom. that is sad. They are trained to do this type of work. Yes killing suxs. But oh by the way sorry there are more just like me out there that do support the troops being in Iraq. So i think you need just to get over it. I dont listen to fools and believe in such nonsense I laugh at them. Its ur choice to believe a communist party that is only there to scare you. be my guest. Oh try 1 milliion that support and over… Facts are facts. You wanted to try telling me again that I am lying be my guest. We are at war and you know like my parents have stated to me in the past NO ONE BUT NO ONE never complain bout when we went to WW2. Your nothing more than anti americans. and you can tell the stupid americans that are out there after my fiance and my friends to stop there foolishness.
god bless bush. 2004 oh yea the military hates ur guts ...you turn backs on them that is what is gettin them killed. thank you very much
Posted by Military fiance on Sep 22, 2003 at 5:44 PM leslee. brainwashed….lmao oh my come up with something new. Rush is right you are all loonies. Hey thank you for killing the men out there. by the leslee.you see let me explain to why since your to brainless to know to except the TRUTH.
Did you see that there are americans out there killing our soldiers because they are protecting sadam. Oh did you know its the same group that is sponsoring this one….lmao gezz i am sooooo sorry that you didnt know. well go ahead cuz honey bush will be voted back in and you are just goin to have to get over it.
Anti americans are nothing more than foolish lil brats who cant get their way. GET OVER IT
Posted by Military fiance on Sep 22, 2003 at 5:54 PM Man, militant finance, sounds like you need to get over it. And get a dictionary.
Why you come onto this forum and call us anti-americans seems to suggest you can’t think like a true American—for yourself. Comparing World War II (no disrespect to your father) to this is just stupid and narrow-minded.
The blood of everyone who has died and will continue to die for a deceitful and political purpose will be on his hands. He’s evil and I hope to God he gets voted out of office like 60% of the people are saying they will do.
But if you think I’m an idiot, look back at posts in March up until last month. Those people swore they would find nuclear weapons over there and other WOMD and called us all kinds of names. Call me names, it’s okay. I know I have to do my patriot duty to oppose this attrocity.
I hope nothing happens to your fiance, or anybody else. I hope somebody with a brain gets in office and gets those people out of there before more get killed, before a real jihaad is launched. We never should have gone in, no matter how much you believe we should. What do you have to say when Cheney said he “misspoke” when saying Iraq had WOMD. In other words, he and Bush LIED. And our troops have to suffer for it.Do you want to live in the George Bush america where he will keep woman barefoot and pregnant and in the kitchen and keep minorities and poor people down? Well, he’s doing it.
Wake up.
Posted by neil on Sep 22, 2003 at 9:29 PM Amen to you Ronnie. If there’s a draft…..HELL NO I WON’T GO!!!
Posted by neil on Sep 22, 2003 at 9:31 PM Wow, Military fiance,...is Rush really your hero and only guide in this life? No wonder you are so hostile. What if Rush is wrong?
Posted by Just Me on Sep 23, 2003 at 12:33 PM Well support them cuz they are losing there morals fast because you give them lost hope of being there. that is what you are gettin them killed. oh yea to correct someone that stated that communist is democracy dude u really really need to go learn government class again. The Iraq ppl are doing better than what they had before. The soldiers that I know say they are glad to be there to liberate Iraq. 3rd ID was the only one complaining but then again that is what the media does push there buttons by lyin to them. I am soooo sorry that you are so pathetic to believe what you hear from cnn, nbc,abc,cbs, Come on open ur ears people. This group is the biggest joke of them all. they are the workers party that highly support communism and they are making you do the work for them. well i will continue to write in here till my finace comes home. then I will quit. They will be coming home shessh. you live in fear to much..I dont i love life and that is how he would want me to do with my children. Not to mope around and live in fear. Oh by the god bless you all. thank god this is a free country that i can speak what i believe in . sorry i think for myself. cant think for urself then that is a big problem. dont let other think for you.
Posted by Military fiance on Sep 23, 2003 at 5:47 PM glad to see that most of the people changed their mind in the meantime (I was posting in march against this stupid war) not so glad to see people dying everyday in Iraq, which is becoming a deadly trap , this is the clear proof of the foolishness of that war, too bad your leaders that have realized that, insist in their idiot strategy. some times, to back up is a demonstration of intelligence, too bad bush & co do not know what a brain is not having one. I hope the soldiers will go back home by themselves leaving the mindless in the desert, and when they’re back will kick bush ass throwing him to Iraq to see what kind of military genius he is
and for military fiance: watch out for the communists, they could eat you children!
Posted by fabio on Sep 23, 2003 at 9:31 PM Military fiance,...no one here is condemning the troops. I have friends there too and I want to bring them home because I do not believe the Bush administration was honest about either the Iraq situation or their real motivations for invading Iraq. Moreover, my belief is definitely NOT based upon news media or talk radio. It is based upon what members of the administration have said before, during and after their march to war most of which contradicts the facts that are being revealed. I don’t know about you, but I do not like being lied to and I am especially upset if a leader or political representative lies to me. That is just plain wrong, in my view.
Posted by Just Me on Sep 24, 2003 at 6:35 AM By the way, Military Fiance, since you are as distrustful of the television news as I am, you may want to check out a site dedicated to overcoming the lies.
Posted by Just Me on Sep 24, 2003 at 6:55 AM I find some of these comments very negative. Just becasue someone goes to war doesn’t mean they are going to be dead. And, the dude that called my sister brainwashed, don’t. I happen to agree with her. All this negativeness is not going to help at all. I think it’s brave for the soldiers to go out and fight for our country. It’s what they have been trained to do. You can’t be someones voice who isn’t here. How does one know what they are really thinking. I ask God to protect our soldiers and I know that He will. The rest of ya, have no faith whatsoever and what is that telling our children and husbands. That we have no faith in them and we know they are going to die. HELLO earth to people, not everything that happens is bad, and just becasue someone is sent to war doesn’t mean they are going to die. I support Bush, and yes, I do hate war, but I am not completely against it. Let God be in control. There is nothing you guys can do. If it weren’t for Bush, saddams sons would still be alive and ALOT more american’s would be dead. I love God, and I love our country. So, maybe you Bush haters and war haters should remember that God is in control, not Bush, and not the iraq people. Thank you
Posted by armywife on Sep 24, 2003 at 9:12 AM God did not declare war on Iraq,...our President did, unfortunately with the consent of Congress. God did not lie about Iraq’s capacity to threaten our country with WMDs or about a link to 9/11 that did not exist,...Bush/Cheney/Rumsfield/Wolfowtiz/Perle did. God does not economically benefit from the war in Iraq,...Bush/Cheney/Rumsfield/Wolfowitz/Perle do.
Now, I’ve heard an awful lot of WWII being used to justify the human and economic sacrifices for this war which I find kind of strange.
In WWII, the ball of war was started by a man who demonized a certain people (the Jews) claiming that they threatened national security with their terrorism upon the German people. He had a unilaterist bent and isolated his nation from the rest of the world claiming that anyone who criticized him was either unpatriotic or threatening national security.
This ball of war rolling in the middle east has been started by a man demonizing a certain people (the Muslims) claiming they are threatening our security with terrorism in our country. He has a unilateralist bent and is isolating from the rest of the world (except those he pays to be a willing member of the coalition). His supporters are claiming that anyone who criticizes him is unpatriotic and threatening national security.
Does this cause me concern? Yup!!!
Posted by Reality on Sep 24, 2003 at 10:04 AM I didn’t say God caused the war. What I am saying is that it’s retarded for people to be so against it when God is in control and believe me, God is in control of every situation. I am appalled at all the people in here accept for my sister are thinking of themselves. War is gonna happen no matter who is president people. Wake up and smell the COFFEE…..... If it wasn’t Bush that wanted to straighten things out, it would be our next president. I think Bush is doing an outstanding job and I hope he wins again.:) God Bless our troops:)
Posted by armywife on Sep 24, 2003 at 1:32 PM Just me the only lies i see if you and the rest except for my sister army wife. Dang sorry but I dont walk into something that doesnt exisit and oh by the way where do you get off tellin the world that I am just like you distressful and all…lmao who said I was. I have complete faith and so does my fiance. I have no worries bout him being over there. Just like my sister has told you all have faith in God.
You dont speak for any of the soldiers and they are so dang gone pissed off at you right now its not even funny. they will come home and you best not be spittin on them when they arrive like they did back NAM. I am soooo sorry that you dont have the faith in God. Bush is the only president that finally did something instead of sittin on his butt doing nothing like clinton shoud have done. But instead clinton did only what he loved the best is not to go after Usama. Basically what i can tell is that you rather give up the WAR and sit here until we have no freedom at all anymore. How stupid is that.
Well I have alerted all the military wives,girlfriends and fiance about this site so good luck. Now they can tell you how they feel about ur stupidity…
dont start something that you cant handle !!!!!!!!
oh if you go to chat in yahoo type in support our troops!!!! you will find tons of site i do belive.
Posted by Military fiance on Sep 24, 2003 at 4:52 PM Army wife, God gives us free will. Was he in charge when Hitler was around? Genghis Khan? He/she allows things to happen because of FREE WILL. Because of the sin of mankind, we can do anything we want to on earth. The sun shines on the good and the bad.
Now, if you believe in God, you should know what Bush is doing is a SIN. A HORRIBLE SIN. You don’t treat people like this, you don’t throw your countrymen into an illegal, unjust, immoral war for your own political purposes. Sorry, that’s what it is. It’s not for national security now matter how much you try to tell me because I know a hell of a lot more about it than you do. Just because you’re married to someone in the military doesn’t mean you know more about this than all of us here who are patriots because we question the lies that that son of a bitch in the white house is telling us to get more people killed, more people unemployed and destroy the middle class.
Now, if you continue to call US liars, we’ll know you both have been BRAINWASHED by the lies of this evil man in office and we shouldn’t pay any more attention to you.
Posted by neil on Sep 24, 2003 at 6:16 PM I am sure that god has everything under control, in fact he is sick and tired of mankind, and he is now working for its destruction, his agent is called george and he is trying hard to start a chain reaction that will lead to the already mentioned result….
wake up army wife! do god say hello to you every morning and talk to you aboout his projects? do you hear him on the radio?
what people see instead is men fighting men without taking god into any account god is not on your side neither on anybody else’s side
men make the mess men make peace men make war, god makes nothing
Posted by fabio on Sep 24, 2003 at 10:00 PM What I was suggesting, fabio, is that we have no clue how God works or why. How each person defines his/her inspiration to act or be is a personal matter. How each person behaves is a personal responsibility.
Posted by Just Me on Sep 25, 2003 at 12:46 AM What I was suggesting, fabio, is that we have no clue how God works or why. How each person defines his/her inspiration to act or be is a personal matter. How each person behaves is a personal responsibility.
Posted by Just Me on Sep 25, 2003 at 12:49 AM Well things in Iraq are going awsome. The children schools will be operating soon and the soldiers have been helping out to make sure the kids have desk and electricity that they never had when sadam was in power. All hospitals are up and running, the police force are doing a great job.
and for the idiot that has no brains Bush is NOT committing SIN. duh wake up gezzzzz your the one that acts like a4 year wanted and beggin but guess what you aint goin to get it. nah nah nah SO GET OVER IT
Just you stated that i was distressful like you. OH PLEASE. Hey by the way you dont speak for me or my sister in this room. Oh yea but then again you will find out. lmao
Posted by Military fiance on Sep 25, 2003 at 3:04 AM Hey neil how intelligent remark you made “oh fuck bush” that just shows to us how stupid and naive you really are idaho boy. lmao get an education…...lmao
Posted by Military fiance on Sep 25, 2003 at 3:11 AM Have you considered the possibility that God is inspiring those of us who are questioning both the true motivations behind this war (which could very well be evil) and the potential negative consequences upon humanity? I know God and embrace the Prince of Peace, Jesus Christ. Perhaps I am divinely inspired to question the actions of human beings (yup, that would include all those who compose our administration) that include deception, violence upon innocent peoples, greed and arrogance leading to division in our own country and with the world, destruction of other sovereign nations, and death of scores of human beings.
Posted by Just Me on Sep 25, 2003 at 4:08 AM By the way, Military Fiance,...you did say in a previous post “I am soooo sorry that you are so pathetic to believe what you hear from cnn, nbc,abc,cbs, Come on open ur ears people.” (see above). Hence, I concluded you were distrustful of the media.
Posted by Just Me on Sep 25, 2003 at 4:13 AM well this is another matter but how can god inspire some actions in somebody, and the opposite in somebody else? is god a joker that want to laugh on our back? I do not believe in god inspiring the actions of the mankind, I believe in people’s personality, culture, motivations, emotions, good or bad will etc… that lead their lives, and the results may be good or bad, but why give god any responsibility for it? I balme it on the men, too easy to charge somebody that could exist or not with responsibilities that are clearly to be blamed on good or bad men. people can be good or bad and their actions reflects their personality
Leave god where he is, we have to convince men to be rightful not gods (that as far as I can see never interfere in any way in men’s affairs-if you have other perceptions prove it to me, faith is not enough for me)
Posted by fabio on Sep 25, 2003 at 5:12 AM i think this book and article are a disgrace to the american military
Posted by ann Bolen on Sep 25, 2003 at 5:50 AM Military fiance,
It’s an expression. Notice the correct spelling because I have an education.
Because one uses foul language or what would be considered to the hypocrite as foul language, doesn’t mean I’m not intelligent.
Real intelligence doesn’t whole-heartedly go along with everything. That would be naiive.
I haven’t resorted to calling YOU names but you call people on this forum childish and naw, naw, naw, get over it, things like that.
No. I won’t get over it. I won’t be silenced and I will continue to e-mail my representatives, protest and file petitions, like I’ve been doing since the start. I’m not going to place a flag on my car and think I’m doing something. Instead, I speak out, I tell the people I may or may not have elected how I feel and in this state they’re starting to listen. My representative has voted against the Patriot Act, voted against every self-indulged legislation Bush is trying to shove at us. It’s working.
I’ve wished you and your fiance well, but you “naw naw” at me. Come on. I have to question whether you are a military fiance or posing as one.As far as hiding behind religion for this war, radical fundamental Christianity is as bad as radical fundamental Islam. Both twist scripture around to fit their own needs and kill in the name of.
If you’ve listened to most religious leaders, they’re opposed to this war.But, what does it matter? Bush will lose in 2004 and you’d better be prepared to GET OVER IT then.
Posted by neil on Sep 25, 2003 at 6:21 AM Neil
Laughing in ur face. oh how pathetic can one person be ......
whatever !!!!!!!
bush 2004
lmao
Posted by Military fiance on Sep 25, 2003 at 6:35 AM despite what the asshole Berlusconi italian president said yesterday in new york, italy is not and will not be the most american country in europe, that was the nth delirium of a disturbed personality. italians hate bush (not americans) and do not identify with america, but unfortunately the megalomany of our president always put us italians in a bad situation, he just would have to shut up (Iguess you heard the last stupid things he said about mussolini and the fascist period in italy), anycase we do not support bush in any way and do not see any reason why americans should, well at least those americans who are not multi millionaires
by the way what is the average wage of a marine? I’d really like to know to see how an american life is evaluated by your leader
Posted by fabio on Sep 25, 2003 at 8:03 AM Go ahead and laugh. When more US soldiers die, will you laugh then?
When Bush sells your rights down the river, will you laugh then?
You get what you deserve and don’t go crying to anyone else. When your fiance, if he makes it back, gets the shaft for his VA benefits, don’t cry then. When your homeowners rates and taxes go sky-high, don’t cry then.
Go ahead and laugh. I’ll go ahead and do what I can to stop him because it’s my patriotic duty to stop unconstitutional things like this.
When this is over and Bush is imprisioned, I won’t be saying I told you so, I’ll just be grateful.
Posted by neil on Sep 25, 2003 at 8:26 AM Oh, and YET another name you call me. Hmmm, you have someting against the 1st amendment and freedom of speech and one’s opinion.
I haven’t called you a single name.
Posted by neil on Sep 25, 2003 at 8:32 AM Ugh!!! I disagree with those “branches” of Christianity which have somehow extrapolated from the Bible a non-existent divine right to condemn and persecute others. I have never found any authority given to any human being to stand in the shoes of God in judgment of others.
Moreover, those who use God to rationalize destructive or sinful behavior (i.e. for persecuting others, killing others, lying against others, provoking hatred among others, imposing their will upon others, imposing their greed upon others, and otherwise) or represent themselves as acting on behalf of God like they are some sort of demi-gods here on earth are violating two of the top three commandments: thou shalt not hold another god before me (so don’t hold yourself or another out as having the authority to act on behalf of God) and thou shalt not take the name of God in vain (so don’t use God to excuse, explain or rationalize away the behavior of any human being).
As a Christian myself, I do not place any responsibility upon God for my getting up on the proverbial soapbox and sharing my views here in this forum. I chose to do so and I am responsible.
Whether humanity creates heaven or hell on this earth is entirely the responsibility of humanity. I definitely believe humanity has the capacity to create a far better world than the one we are presently living in.
Posted by Ms. Monica on Sep 25, 2003 at 4:15 PM super good, monica and furthermore, those who believe shall not hide themselves behind god, they’d rather discuss things on a human basis and keep their spirituality for themselves (spirituality is for those who needs it not for everybody therefore cannot be imposed) let’s discuss human needs and we’ll see that the whole world can get along!
Posted by fabio on Sep 25, 2003 at 4:46 PM I’m a Vietnam veteran; and before the beggining of the Iraq war, wrote President Bush and my two senators of my opposition to it. Unfortunately, my uninformed predictions for the outcome have been more accurate than the administrations experts.
Posted by Ken Van Kley on Sep 26, 2003 at 2:40 AM so are you saying I am getting on a soapbox? I am not. I am not saying that God is responsible for this. What I am saying is that the bible says that in the end times, there will be wars and folks, it’s not bush’s fault, or God’s fault. We are in the end times whether you people like it or not. I bring God into everything I talk about.:)
Posted by armywife on Sep 26, 2003 at 5:56 AM One more thing, I don’t hide behind God. That would be dumb. I tell everyone of my faith and believe and love for God. That is the way it’s supposed to be if you have a relationship with God.
Posted by armywife on Sep 26, 2003 at 5:57 AM Neil, Oh wow ur freaking out just cause what i said bout you is true. shessh. sorry that you cant handle the facts dear. get over it.
Oh since you didnt understand what i told you…i wasnt laughing at the soldiers. lmao i was laughing at ur stupid commits….cant you understand ENGLISHgosh darn ppl get over it. we are goin to be there for another 2-3 years. There is no negative going on there. The soldiers are glad to be there helping out and protecting them.
OK YOU THINK THIS IS BAD EH…LMAO WHERE IN THE HELL WERE YOU WHEN CLINTON SENT THEM OUT TO IRAQ,BOSNIA,SOMILA ETC. HUH WHERE IN THE HELL WERE YOU. OH WHAT WAS THAT YOU SUPPORT CLINTON. I THOUGHT SO…
AND THIS GROUP THAT U CHOOSE TO JOIN IS BEING HIGHLY WATCHED. YEAH THINK BOUT THAT NEIL AND THE REST OF YOU. UR NOT MORE THAN A BIG AMERICAN TRAITOR…WE TRUE AMEIRCANS DONT LIKE YOU. OH BY THE WAY WHAT I HAVE STATED HERE IS FREEDOM OF SPEECH.
SO SIT DOWN AND GET OVER IT.
AND DO NOT SAY YOU SPEAK FOR THE SOLDIERS.
Posted by Military fiance on Sep 26, 2003 at 6:04 AM No one knows when the end times will come, not even Jesus himself.
Paul believed the end would come in his lifetime, but here we are 2000 years later. For centuries, people have thought the end was near.
Posted by neil on Sep 26, 2003 at 6:05 AM I would like to know out of everyone who has commented in here, who besides my sister and I have someone that is in the armed forces. Becasue if you don’t, maybe you shouldn’t comment in here. Because you probably most likely don’t know what the heck you are talking about except the fact that you hate war so much and you need someone to blame.:)
Posted by armywife on Sep 26, 2003 at 6:05 AM I never said you were hiding behind religion for this war, I said Bush was and that is far, far worse.
Revelations was written to comfort persecuted Christians when there was little support for them, especially in Rome, the nation occupying Jerusalem.
Sorry, I believe in God, but I don’t see this as anything but a horrific, terrible sin being commited by an evil president.
Posted by neil on Sep 26, 2003 at 6:10 AM Man, armywife, you seem to be bitter. It doesn’t matter if we have anyone in the military or not.
This is America and I dare you to try to stop me from commenting, especially on something as awful as this is. It’s my constitutional right and anything you say to the contrary could be considered fascist.Just because you have someone in the military doesn’t mean you have the only right to speak about it. That is pure BS.
And who are you to say who hasn’t suffered because of the evil actions this president is inflicting upon this nation? We’ve all lost jobs because of his terrible economic policies, we’re all paying more at the pump, we all have relatives in the service in some respect or another. And from what I understand, soldiers in Iraq aren’t even getting combat pay.
Nice way to treat the disposable troops. Wait until they get home, if ever. See how many VA benefits they have, which have been cut due to the horrible overspending by our traitor president. Yes, a traitor.
Posted by neil on Sep 26, 2003 at 6:15 AM Military Fiance, I’ve tried to be nice, rational, pointed out facts, but all you do is call me names.
Whatever happens to you, you deserve because you are acting like a bitch.
Posted by neil on Sep 26, 2003 at 6:43 AM I guess I should expect this from pro-war people, conservatives. When faced with facts, they lash out and call names. I haven’t called you one, just said you are acting like a bitch—someone who calls names, blathes on and on.
No matter what more you say to me, you’re like a little kid going, nay nay nay. I’m going to continue to be an activist and you can just go back to being who you are or whatever. It doesn’t bother me. I know in my heart I’m right, this military invasion and occupation is wrong and when it all comes out in the wash, you’ll see.
I’ll feed off the energy to continue to do more to get Bush impeached and imprisoned and get his corporate buddies out, too.
See, I care about my country and don’t want to kill anyone in the process of it. Iraq was never involved in 9/11 or with Al Queda and we had no right to invade.
You can read the rest of the posts on here from MILITARY FAMILIES AGAINST THE WAR and see what they’re saying rationally instead of saying, “get over it, boo hoo, blah blah blah” or whatever else you want to lash out with.I’ll give you the last word, though it probably be more name-calling and angry blind patriotic bs. But go ahead. I still hope everyone makes it out of there okay, despite how much you make me want to think otherwise with your hateful remarks.
Posted by neil on Sep 26, 2003 at 6:51 AM of course, we should let sodiers and officers decide about war things, and do not comment! reguÚlar people in my opinion should vote to abolish armies so that you and your sister go to find a regular job, may be in coal mine if you really love the hard jobs, but there you would harm no one. Everybody has the right to comment the UN especially because we live in planet earth non ti planet USA, wake up, go to war in michigan if you do not want world people to comment, fight missouri, invade florida and we’ll restrain from comments, but when you tour the world with your bloody army think twice please before feeling the untouchable leaders, there is proof that USA is protecting terrorists that massacred hundreds in latin america, and they live free in miami, new york under CIA protection and after being paid by the government to put bombs, to train armies that suffocated just rebellions….think not only twice, more than twice….
Posted by fabio on Sep 26, 2003 at 8:40 AM This war was about CONTROL, POWER and GREED!!! It was part of a pre-conceived plan that was created BEFORE 9/11. That plan is called the “Project for a New American Century” and was signed off by VP Cheney, Rumsfield, Wolfowitz, Perle, Libby, Jeb Bush and others back in 1997 (see http://www.pnac.info ). This administration is composed of a bunch of oil diggers and arms dealers making a bloody fortune off their endeavors at the sacrifice of the many. They see themselves as “masters of the universe” and they are sick, sick, sick!!!
BRING OUR TROOPS HOME!!!
BRING OUR TROOPS HOME!!!
BRING OUR TROOPS HOME!!!
Posted by Ms. Monica on Sep 26, 2003 at 4:24 PM Here is what I do know. It’s going to be a better place one day becasue God is in control and I am very glad he is. I don’t have all the answers to the world. But, God does. I don’t have an answer to war, but God does. I am not a bitter person at all. I love Jesus and I totally support our troops that are over there. I can’t believe that you people are so angry over war. I bet if bush wasn’t the one that wanted to try and make Iraqi’s free, it would be someone else. Yes, folks, that was his agenda. And, it is working. But, all you people see is the negative and the people getting hurt and killed. Don’t you think that if our troops didn’t know what they were getting themselves into, they never would of signed that line when they enlisted.? I know my husband wouldn’t of. They are proud to serve their country and they love their country and they will do whatever it takes to get things done.
Posted by armywife on Sep 26, 2003 at 7:26 PM Monica and others if you think this war was of power and greed you need to go back and look at the news. In case you didn’t realize, Iraq is more free now, than it ever has been. If you hate bush that much why don’t you run for president. That is way out of line for you to even think that. Come on. Watch the news. You must of missed a whole bunch of it.
Posted by armywife on Sep 26, 2003 at 7:28 PM God isn’t sick and tired of mankind fabio. God loves everyone.:) Trust me, I know. He loves you too.
Posted by armywife on Sep 26, 2003 at 7:32 PM And, before you people decide to hate bush so much. Why don’t you read up on what clinton did. He willing handed them explosives and bombs and stuff like that. It wasn’t bush, it was clinton:) I was absolutely appauled about that. That our president could do something like that. Clinton handed them their weapons. What kind of a president is that.? Bush didn’t do that. He is trying to clean up the mess. It wasn’t bush that went over to iraq and al quadia and told them to bomb the pentagon and the twin towers, they did that on their own. SO DON"T GO BLAMING BUSH FOR THIS. If you want to blame someone, blame yourselves for poor attitude and hateful attitudes.
Posted by armywife on Sep 26, 2003 at 7:37 PM Bush admitted that Iraq had nothing to do with the bombing of the twin towers and the pentagon. Violent crimes have quadrupled in Iraq. Tens of thousands of innocent Iraqi people have been maimed or killed. They don’t have jobs, money, food, electicity, water and are losing hope.
These are facts written in newspapers around the globe that are not presented on that tabloid show called “fox news”. Furthermore, the fact of the matter is that Bush/Cheney/Rumsfield/Wolfowitz and the rest of those neo-cons lead this nation to war against a country that posed no threat to us.
Instead of spending 87 billion dollars on this administration’s war mongering, we should be spending the money necessary to educate our people so that they can read, write and think for themselves instead of handing over their brains to the television set and weirdos who proclaim that they know the end is near.
It is obvious that some of us are simply going to have to agree to disagree and move on.
Posted by Ms. Monica on Sep 26, 2003 at 10:12 PM monica’s last post is wonderful, it says it all in a very simple way, 1000 points, armywife surrender, ther’s no way, monica I love you
Posted by fabio on Sep 26, 2003 at 10:48 PM so you guys will continue to blame bush for this and that’s fine. But, don’t you think that clinton is at fault too like I said for giving them weapons, or is clinton just a hunky dory man who was the greatest president. I think that for once in our lives, we will be able to go over to iraq, and be able to get them educated, and food and water and the things they need. But, hey, who am I to talk.
Posted by armywife on Sep 27, 2003 at 2:46 AM Neil you have not once been nice to me since you started to bitch at me for the truth that hurts you. Gezzz men are like boys they dont know when to grow up.
Ok you complain bout the VA. Fact my father has the VA, my son is on the VA with his dad who served in the military. Nothing was cut from the VA. That is so funny how that rumor you are believing just proves to me you must be getting paid to say such nonsense. VA is coverd.
Ok now on to the econmic. Yes its down but you know what neil hello do you not remember that 9/11 occured?????? Do you not remember the world was under attacked!. Wow are hiding the fact that you refused to remember that day. I make damn sure my kids watch that over and over so they wont forget. What you just stated to my sister shows to me that you absolutely dont have a clue what is going on do you.
Like I said before and i will keep on repeating it over and over until my fiance and all my friends are home You and the rest of the gang in here DO NOT speak for the military in Iraq . you DO NOT speak for the military families. Tell whoever in this group of international answer to stay the freak out of iraq and stop killing our soldiers. This is no where like nam at all. Sorry we have only lost 307 soldiers so far total and 47 are guardsman, In Nam we lost more than that neil. But then again I dont know what you learn in your history class or did you slumped and didnt care. Its sounds to me that your the one that doesnt care bout these soldiers lives at all. If you did you wouldnt be stated and sticking your butt in their faces. Yes there is freedom of speech and well that is what I am stating too that you cant handle at all. Here is something maybe you just dont want to recall at all. DO you not remember that there were over 5000 ppl killed in a single day on 9/11 and you bitch bout soldiers dying. Umm hello we havent lost that many in war time of Iraq. And two we have every rights to be there . lol you think that bush just went out an attacked and no one gave him the power to do so. hmmm HELLO congress gave it to him couples days after 9/11. We are at war and we will continue to be at war just to protect you and me and this great country we have. If we dont neil like you and I that both believe in God we wont be able to have those rights again. Is that what you want. Cuz you know niel I certainly dont want that. I will apologize if I called you names. At least I can do that. can you.
Posted by Military fiance on Sep 27, 2003 at 7:27 AM military fiance, your perception of the world dynamics seems a bit hallucinated, to go to war you have to get a UN mandate which you had not, Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, you found no WMD in Iraq, the international community was anycase against this intervention, your congress can authorize expenses in your country, not wars abroad, USA did the dirtiest crimes around the world killing thousands to keep your lifestyle at a high level (not for basic needs) you are protecting many terrorists (that attacked the poorest countries in the worls - how nice!) and you have more WMD than anybody in the world and still studyng more, you have not signed the international agreements on war crimes and tried to force other countries to do that by menacing ritorsions, you have the death penalty, after all you are the kind of country that in your president’s eys need to be bombed, invaded and then settled back to democracy, do you realize this? if you don’t you need to take history classes, not Neil,
Posted by fabio on Sep 27, 2003 at 9:22 AM fabio i dont see why you have anything to say bout this. you arent NOT an american. I think if i remember correctly that your from Italy. oh hey they support usa and there are 45 other countries that do. and yes resolution states it that we had ever right. sadam had al qaeda and yes if ur blind which that you are they just picked up 14 al qaeda in Iraq… so take off ur blinders. or are they super glue on to yer face.
Posted by Military fiance on Sep 27, 2003 at 9:34 AM Fayetteville Newspaper polls states that 139 thinks that we need more troops in Iraq and 39 says no. hmmm and guess what ppl this is a military town. Very big at that too.
truth at what the people do support and that is one thing in this city i live in at bragg we support our troops
Posted by Military fiance on Sep 27, 2003 at 9:36 AM I care about our troops and I want to bring them home. My dissent against this administration’s policies is a totally separate matter from our troops.
We live in a democracy where the ultimate rule lies in the hands of “the people”, not the politicians. If we believe our leaders are doing something that is bad for our nation, it would be a form of treason to our nation if I fail to speak out against this administration. As an American citizen, my patriotism is for the American people, not the crooked politicians.
When it comes to Iraq, we ravaged that country with WMDs while it did not bomb us or threaten us. That kind of aggressive war is unlawful under the international laws that we, the USA, signed.
Contrary to what anyone may think, the USA is not the center of the universe. We are merely one member of hundreds of other countries. How the rest of the world views us does matter. How fabio views us does matter to the stability of the world.
Posted by Just Me on Sep 27, 2003 at 1:38 PM By the way, if it were Clinton rather than Bush carrying out these policies, you bet your ass I’d be here and on the streets dissenting. For me, these issues have nothing to do with a political party,....they have to do with the impact upon our people and our impact upon the world.
Posted by Just Me on Sep 27, 2003 at 3:38 PM As a combat veteran of two wars who has served through enlisted and officer ranks since 1967 the abandoment of our nations warriors is unaceptable. U.S. military leaders led us into an unjustified war- based on lies- then used uranium munitions that leave a trail of death and illness. Although DOD regulations and directives require immediate medical care and enivnonmental clean up our leaders refuse to comply. We have created a toxic wastleand in Iraq, the Balkans, Afghanistan, and on Vieques Puerto Rico. However even though we knew of the dangers we sent our warriors into this toxic wasteland with defective equipment, inadeqaute or no medical care, and the expectation that the populations of the nations that we invaded would welcome us with open arms and cheers. If an another nation invaded the U.S. set up road blocks; prevented individuals from going where they wanted; blew every thing up; contaminated our air, water, and soil; shot anyone who resisted their efforts; and told us how to run our nation then we would be pissed too. AND OUR LEADERS THINK THAT WE HAVE THIS RIGHT? this is crazy——BRING THEM HOME NOW, PROVIDE MEDICAL CARE FOR EVRYONE, AND CLEAN UP THE EARTHS AIR, WATER, AND SOIL.
Posted by Major (Ret.) Doug Rokke, PH.D. on Sep 27, 2003 at 6:01 PM CLINTON started this whole thing. HELLO people who are blaming bush for everything.. It wasn’t BUSH who gave the weapons to another country it was CLINTON. So, what you morons are saying is it’s okay to give DEADLY weapons to the enemy, but darn it, bush should be impeached becasue you guys think he started a war. WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE PEOPLE. HELLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Posted by armywife on Sep 28, 2003 at 1:36 AM Actually Armywife it is the neoconservatives who bear most of the blame for this sick mess, for wanting to turn America into the next British empire! And we all know how that turned out.
And that unelected idiot should have known better!
Posted by Patrick on Sep 28, 2003 at 2:42 AM Patrick so if someone that defends the nation that is a conservative is a neo nazi…oh how funny but its quite funny cuz you have forgetten when Pres Kennedy stuck our troops in Vietnam a war that was never a threat to us, Iraq is a different situation my dear. Iraq has keep Al Qaeda for many many of years. There is no lie in that just this week they have arrest 14 Al Qaeda in Iraq. What bout the chemical and biological weapons that Sadam has had. I have mention some countries that were involved but you to blind to comprehend. I know for a fact what Bush is doing is fair and square. He has not gone against the International laws not once. He went to the UN to fight all of this and well clinton he is definilty a neonazi all he ever did was deployed more soldiers then any other president in history. 9/11 is when the world was hit people wake up. It sounds to me that all you rather do is keep our soldiers here and not go after the enemy. That dear is giving into the devil. Since Bush came into office no one expected the Hell we would go through but you know Clinton sure did. You dont know half of the crap we went through living on this base during his adminstration. Bush did something right and so did both adminstration is to go after these morons that attacks us. Congress gave Bush the power to go after them. Now would you rather been attacked and let them take over this country and not have the great freedom we have or stand up and fight. I and my family would rather stand up and kick some good ole american ass. That is patriotic. People like this group sorry but your no where near being an American and that is my opinion. If that just hurt you welcome to freedom of speech.
The Iraqi people have so long wanting us to be there to help them out.
My father is a ret Col. he also served Vietnam and you know till this day he never once said bad things like the Major just stated. He has never been negative and he also understand what this is all bout. unlike you folks. This is NOT like Nam not nearly at all.
Reap what you sow!!!!!!
god bless bush and thank him for protecting this great nation. hoooah!!!!
Posted by Military fiance on Sep 28, 2003 at 7:22 AM There’s a distinct difference between a neoconservative and traditional conservative.
They used blatant lies to gather support for this hideous farce.
http://www.newsday.com/news/columnists/ny-nybres233465724sep23,0,5555679.column
And there are Al Qaeda in Iraq NOW because your nation has invaded the bloody place! Your leaders have played right into Osamas hands!
And I doubt ANY people who hide behind lies to bring about wars with world peace and security. THAT’S true patriotism in a democracy.
Posted by Patrick on Sep 28, 2003 at 11:45 AM military fiancË, if you do not want to be commented by people outside US, just do not go outside US, bomb your ass if you want to do it without anybody saying anything. but since you went abroad for your stupid war, you have to hear my words from abroad. the fact that Italian government support that idiot called bush do not mean that every italian do, if it was like that this forum would not exist, because all americans should support bush in your opinion. luckily it’s not llike that.
furthermore my sister in law is american and do not support bush at all. so as I already told you, do whatever you like at home, outside you have to adhere to certain rules, not doing so you are outlaw, and your war is outlaw, and if you really love your soldiers, you’d bring em home today, but you like the blood, you like to be a marhtyr right? so that with a gold medal in the drawer your existence will have more sense….
Posted by fabio on Sep 29, 2003 at 8:09 AM oh my brainless ppl that are brainwashed…hey keep it up…it really funny to laugh at such nonsense. Patrick mate dont post something that just doesnt exisit with truth. but then again it may educated you a little less. My friends in Aussie are smarter than you. get a job
Posted by Military fiance on Sep 29, 2003 at 8:17 AM oh for fabio by the way then do this tell your leadership dnt be askin for USA’s help in ww3. Your on your own. I will be there for aussie but not for idiots in europe.
Posted by Military fiance on Sep 29, 2003 at 8:18 AM USA is starting WW3, that’s why I am upset! I cannot see any other army around invading, only USA has started major conflicts lately (besideds those going on since many years that nobody care for not even your saint president caring so much for the helpless - check www.warnews.it)
Posted by fabio on Sep 29, 2003 at 8:56 AM and it would be better if USA would ask for help to other countris, by withstanding to international agreements, not going straight like a tank using false information, lying to the people (both in US and UK)
where are these weapons? where are the plans to attack USA? you live in a culture of fear that will destroy you, fear lead to nowhere, comprehension, cooperation and goodwill, solidariety respect and generosity are the real keys, that apparently you don’t really know
Posted by fabio on Sep 29, 2003 at 9:16 AM and one more thing: idiots are not only in europe, they are well distributed all over the world
Posted by fabio on Sep 29, 2003 at 11:21 AM I have the same concerns, fabio, and so do millions of US citizens and peoples around the world (I do hope you noted the protests picking up against around the world). If I may, I would like to suggest that we ignore those whose clear intent is simply to condemn other’s points of view (what I have come to call internet “trolls” who have no desire to find understanding or remedy but rather are bent upon trouble-making). There is no use attempting to reach out or try to build bridges with those who are more like the destructive bridge blasters of humanity. So, don’t waste your time or energy on such people because they simply are not worth it.
Posted by Ms. Monica on Sep 29, 2003 at 3:26 PM as already told you monica, I love you, and I’d like to speak your good english to explain myself better, anycase I’m glad we sharae the same point of view, keep it up, I know you’re not alone in the US, millions of americans are waking up or already were, I’d like that the radical militarists would at least try to think, but it seems so hard….
Posted by fabio on Sep 30, 2003 at 4:36 AM fox company marine reserve came home just yesterday and one soldier that was interviewd said if his unit was called up again to go back he said he would. See that just tells you that you will do anything for attention just to tell lies. well i am not leaving here. if you dont like it oh well .like i care. i know the truth and hell i can handle it. if my kids can handle seeing the truth of 9/11 why cant you.
Posted by Military fiance on Sep 30, 2003 at 6:38 PM dear fiancË: 1 soldier out of a company that would like to go back is not that significant since I guess a company is made out of hundreds of soldiers… I am sorry for your kids that are growing up on fear and ignorance
Posted by fabio on Sep 30, 2003 at 7:52 PM fiabo they dont fear at all. they know the truth. and what is funny they are smarter then you ding dongs ..shessh. they are not on drugs like you and the anti americans.
Posted by Military fiance on Oct 1, 2003 at 5:47 AM oh the company has less than 50…so hey they know what they are fighting for, they are proud of their work and the civilians of iraq love them having them their.
hey i dont have blinders on thank you
chow
Posted by Military fiance on Oct 1, 2003 at 5:49 AM Monica, you say for him to not listen to anyone who condemns fabio’s points, but isn’t that what you guys are doing to my sister and I? You guys don’t listen to us, and you think that what everyone else is saying is right. It would be nice if someone listened, but maybe ya’ll will listen to God if you aren’t going to listen to us. And, furthurmore, like I said before war has to happen and will happen til the end of time. You can’t protest a war, it’s dumb to do that. You can however pray that the troops would be okay. And, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it’s not the US’s fault that Al Quieda doesn’t like us. They bombed us first. And, no that doesn’t give us the right. I know that is what one of you are going to say. What I am trying to say is, by this war, I wouldn’t be as afraid to maybe take a trip to Iraq as I was a few years ago. You guys don’t understand that we are trying to free them.:)
Posted by armywife on Oct 1, 2003 at 5:57 AM Fabio,...twice you have sent Love my way,...and twice I send It back to you. Today, let’s not get distracted by closed hearts and minds and instead pass along that Love to those we can touch.
Military Fiance and Army Wife, I quote John 15:26:17,...“These things I command you, that you love one another.” The Word of Jesus Christ. A lesson even you may want to acknowledge for this one day. Or, maybe not.
Posted by Ms. Monica on Oct 1, 2003 at 6:01 AM In case you are wondering monica, I do love everyone because that’s what God commands us to do. I am a very strong christian if you would like to know. I don’t like war either, but lets face it war happens and there isn’t anyone that can do anything about it.
Trust me, getting angry and getting all war defensive and being mad because the war is happening doesn’t do anyone any good. So, why don’t you guys just stop saying dumb things like you hate bush, he is responsible and that you hate the war, well, gosh there isn’t anything any of you can do about it but pray for our troops. That’s what they need mostly right now.
Posted by armywife on Oct 1, 2003 at 4:26 PM troops news on the front. the moral is up 100% . and they say they will support and vote Bush. So and here you are pissing the soldiers off but then again they ignore you every step of the way. you dont exisit to them at all…oh well there is only little of this group and there are millions of us that never turn our backs on them.
we are not done with war on terrorism and wont be for a long time.
Posted by Military fiance on Oct 1, 2003 at 4:31 PM Armywife, I am sure the Almighty would be a lot happier if you did not have such faith towards your leaders who are only mortal flesh and blood, same as anyone else and prone to greed and corruption, same as anyone else.
All the evidence so far points to mass deception to gather support for this farce. And the Iraq people DON’T want outsiders ruling them.
Posted by Patrick on Oct 1, 2003 at 5:54 PM you guys need alot of help and guidence. The only thing you care about is ending the war and hope there isn’t anymore. I hope there isn’t either, but I am not as STUPID as you people and I live in REALITY, and I know that I can’t do anything about the war. You people are angry and bitter. GET OVER IT….........
Posted by armywife on Oct 1, 2003 at 6:21 PM Patrick another lie just came out of your mouth mate. The Iraq dont want UN taking over…..They are blessed that what they have now is what the british and the USA troops are giving them. They now have a woman patrol that never exisit before. They are happy we are there. We are not taking over. taking over and helpin are two very different meanings.
God would not punish Bush because he has done NOTHING wrong.
Posted by Military fiance on Oct 1, 2003 at 6:33 PM Sorry for being vague about the previous link.
John Pilger. ‘Breaking the Silence’.
This documentary really tells how this whole mess is being sold to the world by the powers that be.
Posted by Patrick on Oct 1, 2003 at 7:13 PM God said: go and kill your brother because actually is your enemy
jesus said: ifget hit, don’t get hit twice, kill those who hit you!
The holy spirit in his tables of law wrote: go and steal to the people what belong to them (oil in this case)
and also said to put the market in the temple (american TV billionaire priests)
this is the bible by armywife, ah and sorry last but not the least god said: I bless america and fuck the rest!
Posted by fabio on Oct 1, 2003 at 8:10 PM SOLDIERS OF THE USA, UNITE AND QUIT THE ARMY! GO BACK HOME, FIND A REAL JOB, LET THE GENERLAS DOWN, THEY ARE NOTHING WITHOUT YOU.
NOBODY IS ATTACKING USA NOW, EVERYBODY HATES USA BECAUSE OF ITS INTERNATIONAL BEHAVIOUR, SHOWING PEACEFULLNESS AND GOODWILL WILL SAFEGUARD YOU FROM THE TERRORISTS, GOING TO WAR WILL ONLY INCREASE THE HATE, FROM BAD SEEDS ONLY BAD WEEDS
Posted by fabio on Oct 1, 2003 at 10:48 PM YOU GUYS ARE SO STUPID AND IGNORANT AND JUST READ EVERYONE’S WHO AGREES WITH YOU. GET A LIFE AND WAKE UP TO REALITY. WAR HAPPENS FOOLS. I AM NOT AN IDIOT, BUT CALL ME ANY NAME YOU WANT IF IT MAKES YOU FEEL BETTER. I COULD CARE LESS. YOU PEOPLE WHO THINK THAT WAR SHOULDN’T BE AND THAT BUSH IS AN IDIOT ARE THE NARROWMINDED FOOLS.
Posted by armywife on Oct 2, 2003 at 1:52 AM YOU PEOPLE ARE SO NARROWMINDED IN THINKING, THAT WAR WHOUD NOT BE. I DON’T LIKE WAR EITHER BUT UNLIKE YOU FOOLS, I LIVE IN REALITY AND KNOW THERE ISN’T A DARN THING I CAN DO ABOUT WAR. SO GET OFF YOUR SOAP BOXES. AND CALLING ME NAMES DOESN’T BOTHER ME. GO RIGHT AHEAD. IT SHOWS HOW MATURE YOU PEOPLE REALLY ARE.
Posted by armywife on Oct 2, 2003 at 1:55 AM american lie you have no understand what you are talking bout.
you dont know what the soldiers want. you dont listen to them you hide from the fact and you are afraid.
hahahahaha!!!!! hey you want to do that all to bush but then again you say you dont believe in violence. opps I think you just let the cat of the bag dear….you just have proved my point and too alot of ppl that hate you
Posted by Military fiance on Oct 2, 2003 at 2:42 AM wow fabio not only they attack us they attack the world. but then again keep living in ur cave in italy
you really prove yourself that you dont know nothing.
Posted by Military fiance on Oct 2, 2003 at 2:46 AM Oh, let me in on this! I’ve been reading
a few comments on this page, and I see
there’s the perpetual idjits (Miltary
Fiance and Armywife) who can’t seem for
the life of themselves realize that they
destroy their own credibility through
their very obvious thick-headedness and
submission to fascist rule. But I’m
not here to call names, I really want
to add my voice to the demand to bring
our kids HOME before this war becomes
another war and then another, and of course
the draft will be reinstated at some
point, and CO status will no longer exist,
and I have kids and THEY AIN’T GOING.Bush should be impeached, whipped, publicly
shamed, put in stocks, tarred and feathered,
and should have to appear naked in the street
to show he has no balls - not necessarily
in that order.
Posted by American Lie on Oct 2, 2003 at 3:59 AM This just about sums up the “war on terror.”
Real One Player required.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/video1/pilger_breaking_the_silence.rm
Posted by Patrick on Oct 2, 2003 at 5:04 AM read and weep folks!!!!
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=34881
Following months of frustrated searches by hundreds of U.S. and British investigators for Saddam’s weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, some have turned up in Kuwait, according to Kuwaiti newspaper Al-Siyassah
Posted by Military fiance on Oct 2, 2003 at 5:48 AM dear fiancË, you threw 60 million dollars of bombs every 10 minutes on Iraq while bombing them early this year, so what, yoou want to tell us that saddam is better than you because he had such a small amount of weapons?
Posted by fabio on Oct 2, 2003 at 8:06 AM USA could have used that 90 billion dollars to defeat malaria and tubercholosis which are the 2 main causes of death in the world, that would have been such a generous / useful efforts, that nobody clever enough would have supported any terrorist attack against such a good country.
Unfortunately you had some weapon producer that paid bush electoral campaign that wanted their revenue back, this together with many more reasons led to the stupid war (in my opinion of course, I am just using my freedom of speech, not reporting a private investigation)
what do you think militarists? isn’t it better to save lives instead of killing? it costs even less!
Posted by fabio on Oct 2, 2003 at 8:14 AM from my cave in italy I can see that the only country going backwards as far as international cooperation is concerned is the USA: Kyoto, Aja etc….Italy has not been attacked, the same for: spain, germany, UK, netherlands, portugal, brazil, argentina, canada, mexico, egypt, gambia, south africa, australia, montenegro, romania, japan, china, korea, sweden, norway, greece….. if you have a atlas in your house (which I doubt) you can continue the list on your own.
Unless you have a reserved CIA report that states that the whole world have been attacked (by who by the way?)
Posted by fabio on Oct 2, 2003 at 3:23 PM “fiance” and “wife”,...please note that you were the ones who came on here slinging names and engaging in classic childish bullying tactics against those who follow the wisdom of Theodore Roosevelt: “To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.” The German people were at one time slaves to the same kind of propaganda that you two so vulnerably buy into. If you actually had the initiative to use your God-given brains and pick up a book at the library which describes how Hitler’s regime operated, I guarantee you would see some parallels that would knock you both on your bottoms.
Given your behavior in this environment, I seriously doubt you would have the intitiative to acquire such knowledge. You two are obviously not much into educating yourselves. Why don’t you share with us just how educated you two are (particularly since you seem to to claim some king of superiority over all other participants here). I have 9 years of college,...a juris doctor and nearly an MA in psychology. Do you know what those terms mean (juris doctor, MA)?
How many books have you two read in the last year? Were they teen magazine, romance novels, “Black Stallion”, or something of value in the realm of knowledge?
Well, I am going to give you some informative material right now. You can call those who do not agree with your one-dimensional, shallow, purely ignorant point of view and extraordinarily impoverished vision all the childish, unimaginative names you wish. However, by so doing, guess what!!! You are simply strengthening our resolve to take a broader look at our world instead of being like you, confined to an itsy bitsy box which condemns you to the most meager of contributions to humanity.
So, GET OVER IT! GET OVER IT! GET OVER IT!
*laugh*
Posted by Ms. Monica on Oct 2, 2003 at 4:44 PM Amazing how some people can bring out the most undiplomatic pieces of me *laugh*!!!
Posted by Ms. Monica on Oct 2, 2003 at 4:47 PM P.S. I am thanking God today that your anti-democracy, anti-equality, anti-intellectual, racist, hate-spreading, conflict-loving, cold-hearted, drug-using, emotionally-abusive hero, Rush Limbaugh, is finally being brought to justice for his evils. Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah!! I have great cause to celebrate this day!!!
Posted by Ms. Monica on Oct 2, 2003 at 5:06 PM Recent polls show that even among traditional friends abroad, America is no longer regarded as a champion of freedom, democracy and human rights, but increasingly as a dangerous aggressor bent on imperial domination and exploitation.
America’s most precious and proudest asset, its moral reputation, has been gravely damaged by the Bush White House. The only positive note: rising anti-Americanism is largely associated in the eyes of non-Americans with the persona of George Bush, a man who projects almost all the negative stereotypes foreigners hold of Americans.
Bush’s blinkered core supporters in middle America simply don’t understand or don’t care what the rest of the world thinks of their nation, which, since 9/11, has wrapped itself in a cocoon of xenophobia and self-righteous rage.
The White House’s mouthpiece media, led by Fox News, have simply blanked out world opinion and endlessly chorused administration war propaganda.
Back to reality. Bush’s UN speech was another attempt to mislead Americans into believing the horrid mess in Iraq - entirely the creation of Bush and the neo-cons - is somehow the fault of the UN.
French President Jacques Chirac proposed the U.S. hand Iraq over to UN control. But Bush, still lusting for Iraqi oil and fearful his family foe, Saddam Hussein, would return to thumb his nose at him, foolishly scorned this wise proposal.
Posted by impeachbush on Oct 3, 2003 at 8:26 AM impeach bush. uh if we are bitches ah what does that make you. lol
ah sorry but we are not wrong and i know how hard it is for you ppl to face the facts. ALeast we dont live in a dream world like you all do. We live in the world of REALITY .. WAKE UP
Posted by Military fiance on Oct 4, 2003 at 5:24 AM Fabio they sure was on 9/11 . but what you forgot to see that they too were in the world trade center. not just americans. that just told me how lame brain you really are.
Posted by Military fiance on Oct 4, 2003 at 5:25 AM if it was the UN buildding I could share your point of view, but in this case I stick to mine, and anycase the whold world had the chance to express itself against that attack, but only US pressed to start afghanistand war, and most of all Iraq war which was not proceeded by any attack to US neither to any other country, so which brain is lame? and anycase as far as foreign politics are concerned, nobody beats USA in being idiot
Posted by fabio on Oct 4, 2003 at 9:54 AM you two dumb bitches you think are you? An admission!
Also,
YOU ARE WRONG
YOU ARE BRAINWASHED
YOU ARE FASCIST
YOU ARE UNPATRIOTIC
YOU ARE SUPPORTING KILLING OF THE INNOCENT
YOU ARE NAIIVE
YOU ARE UN-CHRISTIAN TO SUPPORT WAR FOR NO MORAL REASON
YOU ARE CHILDISHthere’s no sense in arguing with these two fools people because they are babies who want to cry and fight. And they’re not really Christian if they support war or capital punishment. So don’t argue with these two dumb bitches, as they have admitted they are.
Posted by impeachbush on Oct 4, 2003 at 12:53 PM GOD CREATES MAN
MAN CREATES WAR
MAN KILLS MAN
MAN BLAMES GOD
ROACHES INHERIT THE EARTH
Posted by Just Me on Oct 4, 2003 at 3:47 PM Those Neo-con scum-bags with the help of that unelected idiot Bush presented pure bullshit at the UN to whip up frenzied support for an illegal invasion that’s going down the crapper!!
Just look at this:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul110.html
That sick bastard Ledeen is just typical of these crazies that have taken over the asylum.
For the good of America, and the whole world, they must be dispatched to the dung heap ASAP.
Posted by Patrick on Oct 4, 2003 at 5:23 PM If every American citizen read Chapter 6 of “Mein Kampf” by Adolph Hitler, we would be far more skeptical and far less likely to be manipulated. However, an article which summarizes propaganda at work (and we should note that it always has been generously used/abused in a country which is so strong on capitalism/consumerism), is at the following site:
http://educate-yourself.org/cn/2001/cnpropagandaforthemasses4oct01.shtml
Manipulating the masses, in my view, is an evil which must quit. Such manipulation should outrage even you, armywife and military fiance.
Posted by Ms. Monica on Oct 4, 2003 at 6:10 PM Fabio the world was with us of the attacks of 9/11. including your country. china, russia, etc. I think you just dont want to face the facts. Poland is in Iraq. and guess what France is gettin their butts kick soon enough. We have proof that France help Sadam out.
Posted by Military fiance on Oct 4, 2003 at 10:52 PM impeach callin me a bitch doesnt make you a person deary.. sorry we are not wrong at all.
IMPEACHBUSH
YOUR WRONG
YOUR BRAINWASHED
YOUR CHILDISH
GET OVER IT SWEETIE BUSH WILL BE IN OFFICE AGAIN AND THATS THAT
I NEVER ONCE CALLED YOU A JACK*SS NOR A B*TCH. THE OTHERS IN HERE EARN MY RESPECT BUT YOU…FORGET IT
Posted by Military fiance on Oct 4, 2003 at 10:55 PM monica I did my study bout hilter hon. I know all to well what he did to the millions of jews. and all the countries he attack and the british never did a darn thing to remove him. This is a war on terrorism and the world was behind us since the day of 9/11. Bush is no where near like hilter and never was and never will be.
Bush is here protecting and doing exactly what our country need under Bill Clinton. Bill messed this country greatly.
Posted by Military fiance on Oct 4, 2003 at 11:01 PM If you guys would of read what i wrote about how I feel about war, you might of chilled out. I hate war just as much as the next person. But, war happens and I can’t do anything about it. I am not going to go into iraq and hold up a flag and tell everyone to stop the war. That would be stupid. I am not against it becasue in the bible it says that wars will happen all the way until the end. It’s not your guys place to judge whether I am a christian or not. I am very much a christian and support our troops, but the most of it is, I love God more. And, for me to sit here and carry on meaningless conversations with you people and try and make you see that war is going to happen no matter what you guys say without you twisting everything I say around, is pointless.
Posted by armywife on Oct 4, 2003 at 11:03 PM Please, listen,...Hitler called his a war against terrorists as well. He also diminished, attacked or condemned as irrelevant all those who disagreed with him. He demonized certain religious groups and nations as being a danger to the freedom and national security of Germany. He manipulated the fears of his citizens. Those who questioned his policies he asserted were unpatriotic or helping the enemy or killing the soldiers. I realize you may have had some exposure to the horrors caused by Hitler in high school. However, if you read what I suggested concerning HOW he went about manipulating the masses, you might see that the same propaganda he used against his people is being used against our citizens (and you are virtually replicating every bit of it). Doesn’t that cause you any concern? Isn’t the whole truth important to you? Moreover, surely to God you do not believe that politicians are incapable of lying. Everyone knows they do. Did you read the one piece I suggested at
http://educate-yourself.org/cn/2001/cnpropagandaforthemasses4oct01.shtml
Why don’t you just read that fairly short, succinct article? It’s informative and as important to you as it is to every other American citizen.
With respect to the Bible,...where does Jesus say that war is inevitable? To the contrary, he delivered a message that we have the capacity and power to create the world we want. I just do not know who would teach you such things. It angers me and seems very anti-Christ like for anyone to teach the very opposite of that tolerant, foregiving, loving and peaceful Jesus who advocated for human potential.
By the way armywife, glad to know we have two things in common: we both have people we love in the armed forces and we both dislike Rush Limbaugh. Well, actually four things total: we are also women and we believe in God. Oh, and yes, we are both human!!!
Posted by Ms. Monica on Oct 4, 2003 at 11:39 PM -
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