Secular Jews and the ‘Jewish State’

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• Reader Comments (11)

  Page 1 of 1 pages

  One wonders what would happen if Israel allowed Arabs to freely immigrate into it at the rate they might desire. No, actually we know what would happen. Never mind.

  Posted by wolf on Apr 1, 2008 at 3:59 PM

  Let’s be clear: What progressive Jews oppose are not “certain policies” of the State of Israel, as if it were about Israel’s poorly-runh health care system or its tax structure. What they oppose is the forced expulsion of Palestinians, the demolition of their villages, the destruction of their culture, and the open-air prison of Israel’s brutal occupation. While they are concerned with discrimination against Israeli Arabs, their real outrage is directed towards the apartheid road system now criss-crossing the West Bank, the humiliating checkpoints that make it impossible for Palestinians to go about their daily life, the house demolitions with five minutes warning, the tacitly supported settler violence, the closure of universities, the curfews, the roadblocks, and the continued construction of settler colonies throughout the West Bank. They oppose the F-16 strikes in the Gaza Strip and the intentional destruction of civilian infrastructure, such as Gaza’s only power plant. Only once Israel acknowledges the grave injustice that was committed in 1948 and that has been continued every since, only when they unconditionally affirm the Palestinian right to self-determination, and only when they dismantle the cruel tools of occupation, will Israel regain the trust of progressive Jews.

  Posted by Steven on Apr 2, 2008 at 6:29 AM

  Or the trust of secular humanists, Steven. Your critique, comment and conclusion leave little to say, save well done and ditto.

  Posted by Bud Wizer on Apr 2, 2008 at 5:40 PM

  I agree with the first two postings in regard to this article, particlularly that of Steven, today.  Moreover, I have a serious problem as a USA citizen/taxpayer with any foreign country that maintains a well-funded, powerful lobbyist group in Washington that can affect the votes of our federal legislators—such organizations as AIPAC, for example.
  We have all witnessed the present Bush administration’s last seven years of disinterest and “benign neglect” in bringing any useful, diplomatic reasoning to the plight of all Israelis and Palestinians. 
  Now, we are seeing last minute, Condi Rice and Dick Cheney visits—all too late and now relatively useless as well. (Fortunately, within another six months, they will no longer be representing us on the international stage….)
  Let’s stop this ridiculous charade.  The mainstream media fails to tell us of Israeli/Palestinian peace groups (which exist!), and I can sympathize with such groups, who for years have tried to bring some humanist values to their friendships and peaceful co-existence there.  There has also been an exodus of Israelis out of Israel, not generally mentioned;  this is why Israel has been fostering visits and hopefully, immigration of “barely jewish” folks from the USA and elsewhere to Israel.  This too seems a simplistic attempt to change things—like the “Berlin walls” that were constructed in recent years….
  Sorry to sound too negative about all of this—but really, the Israeli government and their many mistakes of the past decade have been hard to overlook and accept as reasonable.  There needs to be serious change…both in Israel and the USA.

  Posted by Douglas Scott Treado on Apr 2, 2008 at 5:54 PM

  I have read in many places that Jews in the US should do more to help Palestinians. I agree, but why it should be up to the Jews only? Where are those Americans of Italian, Irish, or African descent who should also be marching on the streets for Palestinian rights? Why are not more Koreans, Hispanics, or Anglos marching? For goodness sake, where are the Americans of Arab descent?

  I held those Jews not doing anything responsible, but at the same level that I held any non Jew who is more interested in the latest news about Paris Hilton than he is about what is being done in the world with the money of US taxpayers.

  The people most critical of Israel are, generally, ethnic Jews. The people most un-critically supporting Israel are, generally, Christian fundamentalists. Extreme zionists and nazis share the believe that Jews do NOT belong with the rest of humanity, and they should should have a place for themselves, far away from the rest of the world.

  There is a problem with confusing religion and ethnicity. Myself, I was raised as a Roman Catholic, but I left the church more than 30 years ago, did not marry by church, my children are not baptized, and do not celebrate any religious festivity, not even Christmas. Therefore, I would be very surprised if someone refer to me as a Catholic. But, if I had been raised as a Jew, even my grand children would be considered Jews. That is a different treatment right there.

  Posted by ar656 on Apr 4, 2008 at 1:10 AM

  Seliger got it just about right (or is it left).  The issue is not whether Israeli policies in regard to its own Arab citizens or the Palestinian people can be explained or justified (they cannot) but whether a Jewish cultural-historical reality has a valid claim to political space in the middle east.
  Just as the American left has constructively created a patriotic narrative of freedom and communalism so too the Zionist left has a strong leftist literature and tradition, an equally compelling “myth” (in the positive sense), by which to move Israel toward a progressive future. And the fight for secular rights and a “Jewish state for all its citizens” will write the next chapter in their struggle.

  Posted by oldlefty on Apr 7, 2008 at 7:40 PM

  re ar656: ‘The people most critical of Israel are, generally, ethnic Jews. The people most un-critically supporting Israel are, generally, Christian fundamentalists. ’  That may be true but Israel’s criminality is fundamentally dependent upon ‘diaspora’ Jewish communities (financial, lobbying, propaganda, etc.).
  re oldlefty - the pressure for change within Israel is not centred from ‘the left’, which is essentially compromised and complicit, but from disparate groups and individuals whose broader politics is not uniform.

  Posted by evanj on Apr 8, 2008 at 5:06 AM

  re: evanj

  “compromised”  “complicit”  “criminality”...this language of deligitimation is that which can make even the most progressive Jews a bit paranoid.

  And the fact that the center of Israeli politics including former stalwarts of the Israeli right like Olmert and Livni (PM and Foreign Minister) are now in the peace camp is a good thing not an indictment of Israeli society in ite entirety.

  Lets be clear:  Israel lost its way big time over the past 40 years but that is not a reason to pull the plug—particularly when the alternative is a bi-national state in concert with Hamas fundamentalists. If there was a god even she would cringe at the thought of Hamas and the fanatical Jewish religious right in the same parliament.

  Posted by oldlefty on Apr 8, 2008 at 1:40 PM

  We all live in the same world, no thats not so, it are weels in weels, with their specific religions, they created diverent worlds, the Jews say their race and way of thinking is about 4000 years old, well most humans come from the same LUCY, the rest is an invention all by humans, I am from Amsterdam, and lived and workt with Jews, nice people humor and in love with live, in my famelie we had ones an Jewes girl, see was an orphan, in an small vilage in the country , and my famelie took here in, so my famelie when I was small had all religions on the same table by an famelie eating, protestant, russia katholyk, part jewes, we had never the smallest problem, but as a young boy I wanted to play footbal, with my friends who where Jews, the club could not take me in while I wash not a Jew, thats how it is, I could not play footbal in a club, in my own country and my own city, in the war we had in our house Suce And Clair, an Jewes mama and her daughter, afther the war , they went to the U.S. not the smallest thank you, what I want to say is, the people make everything so complicated, that it is allmost not possble to live in peace and friendship, with all this oppresing religions, they should bring brotherhood, but wat they bring is divided humans, what leeds to hate, and war, if people want to stay by ther religion, their must come an renaissance of thinking and conviction, of the faiths, other wise we never can live to gether in peace.

  Posted by geus on Apr 9, 2008 at 4:54 PM

  The only way that Israel and Palestine can live in peace in harmony is for Palestine to end its ongoing war with Israel. Given that many Palestinian embrace a religion of intolerance (Hamas being an excellent example of this expressed politically) and (justifiably) feel victimized, this seems unlikely. Perhaps a great Palestinian will rise up and teach that the path to their success is through non-violent means, but this seems unlikely, especially given their religious proclivities.

  Meanwhile Israel will continue to protect itself, just as any other nation would. Even if Israel were to embrace non-violence, the violence would still continue.

  Posted by wolf on Apr 11, 2008 at 2:28 PM

  I suggest that all interested in this subject might also read the recent article by Jane Kramer in The New Yorker magazine, issue of April 14, 2008, (Our Local Correspondents), entitled: “The Petition: Israel, Palestine, and a tenure battle,” to be found beginning on page 50.
  I just checked with www.newyorker.com (online), and unfortunately, this article is not available online…(for some reason, this is the only article from this issue not online…?!  Why, I cannot understand.)
  This week’s actual issue (April 14, 2008) is on the newstands, by subscription, or, hopefully, at your local library.

  Posted by Douglas Scott Treado on Apr 11, 2008 at 8:04 PM

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