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Instructive to hear about the formidable resources of AIPAC - terrifying. Where does the funding come from?
But alas, J Street has arrived too late. Too little to late. A two state solution is now out of the question.
So does J Street merely represent the ‘soft power’ means to similar outcomes? Namely, permanent subjugation of the Palestinian people.
People like Malley, Siegman and Burg are smart cookies. Surely they must stand for something more than endless linguistic blather that merely diverts attention while the ethnic cleansing of the Occupied Territories continues unrelentingly.
Posted by evanj on May 16, 2008 at 4:11 AM
Ralph Seliger has nothing but praise for J Street.
If you want a more critical perspective, check out Rannie Amiri on CounterPunch.
http://www.counterpunch.org/amiri04182008.html
Amiri asks some important questions, that Seliger evades.
On its website, J Street says the following about The Two-State Solution
“The outlines of an agreement are by now well-known and widely accepted: Borders based on the 1967 lines with agreed reciprocal land swaps allowing Israeli incorporation of a majority of settlers as well as Palestinian viability and contiguity; a division of Jerusalem that is based on demographic realities, establishes the capitals of the two states, and allows freedom of access to all holy sites; robust security arrangements; and resolution of the refugee issue that focuses on resettlement in the new state of Palestine, financial compensation and assistance.”
Amiri asks the uncomfortable questions:
“Israeli incorporation of a majority of settlers”? “Demographic realities”? Is Ehud Barak’s “generous offer” being re-visited? Will “demographic realities”—a quaint euphemism for the annexation of large swathes of the West Bank and Jerusalem—lead to the Bantustan that Palestine is destined to become? Will the “robust security arrangements” include maintaining the myriad of checkpoints which obstruct access to hospitals, reunion of families and imposition of unnecessary hardship on all but the privileged West Bank settlers who are allowed unencumbered travel?
J Street has nothing to say about the Israel’s Apartheid Wall that annexes large parts of the West Bank. The World Court has ruled the wall to be illegal under international law, but J Street has nothing to say about it.
J Street has a promotional video that praises an Israeli politician, supposedly as an alternative to the extremists supported by AIPAC. Which Israeli politician? None other than Ehud Olmert, whose most notable achievement was Israel’s 2006 invasion of Lebanon! Olmert was a political protege of Ariel Sharon, and became prime minister when Sharon had a stroke. Olmert continued in Sharon’s footsteps, invading Lebanon AGAIN!
I’m not convinced that J Street is all that different from AIPAC. They’re just selling the same product with a softer line, because the AIPAC hardline posture is an increasingly difficult sell to a US public that has started to hear a Palestinian perspective.
Washington already has one Israel Lobby. Do we really need another one?
Posted by Nevada_Ned on May 16, 2008 at 7:00 AM
I am hoping you are wrong, Nevada Ned, but I fear you are correct. Time will tell, and unfortunately there is not much of that left.
I am hoping the people who put J Street together, many of whom I know for a fact to be sincere, are not being duped into a PR stunt designed to make American Jews look like they give a fuck about Palestine.
Posted by opeluboy on May 16, 2008 at 3:37 PM
Sounds like Nevada Ned has done his research, and my hope for a Liberal Jewish lobby that counteracts AIPAC is not yet here.
However, I disagree with opeluboy. There are MANY American Jews (in addition to Israeli Jews) who DO “give a fuck” about Palestinians, and who are sickened by the fascist policies of the Israeli government.
To assume all Jews think the same is as offensive as saying that all Muslims, women, Black people or Latinos think the same. And it leads to more hatred and paranoia on all sides.
PEACE NOW!
Posted by Marta on May 21, 2008 at 4:02 AM
Marta, I will believe it when I see it. Name three well-known Jewish entertainers, politicians, musicians that are conspicuously fighting for this cause.
Posted by opeluboy on May 21, 2008 at 3:46 PM
opeluboy
Off the top of my head, these two came to mind.
Did you see Steven Spielberg’s MUNICH?
Have you read any of Noam Chomsky’s books?
Both have been called “self-hating Jews” by the Right-wing, and had many death threats, so other artists and writers are more subtle, but they do work behind the scenes.
I generally don’t know the ethnicity and/or religion of politicians.
I know Lieberman (a Jew) is an AIPAC whore, but so are McCain & Hillary and neither are Jewish.
Posted by Marta on May 21, 2008 at 8:23 PM
Marta, in no way whatsoever am I implying there are not American and Israeli Jews fervantly and passionately working for a just peace. I know there are, as I daily receive emails from Gush Shalom, B’Tselem, JVFP, and other peace groups. I am a fan of Chomsky, Zinn, Avnery, Hass, Gordon, Neumann and other Jewish writers, not to mention Finklestein, on this topic. but they are, I believe, rarities.
My point was, when people like Adam Sandler, Jon Stewart, Seinfeld, Larry King
Posted by opeluboy on May 22, 2008 at 4:12 PM
opeluboy
Adam Sandler??? Larry King???
Well, if you wait for those two, you might as well wait for the entire Likkud party to endorse a Palestinian State, and donate a few billion dollars to Islamic madrassas.
Don’t know anything about Seinfeld’s politics—he seems like a nice enough person, but totally disinterested in anything but himself and his “toys”
As far as Jon Stewart, uhmm.
I’d like to think he was more open minded than what you say, as I think he is truly brilliant and very politically aware, but he was one of the many that misquoted Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. (The famous mistranslation on the so-called “destruction of Israel.”
You could be right. It may not be in our lifetime that the majority of American Jews see that state they founded with so much hope has turned to fascism.
But then, just to play devil’s advocate, did you imagine one year ago that a Black man named Barack Hussein Obama had a good chance of becoming the president of the United States?
I am extremely cynical, and fear the worst in 2008, but at least we have a shot at sanity in the Oval Office if Obama gets in. And if THAT happens, who knows what might follow?
(Yes, I know that Obama’s said
Posted by Marta on May 23, 2008 at 4:07 AM
Marta,
Yeah, the Sandler and King thought was a bit of a stretch. But you get my point.
I am waiting to see well-known, respected Jews endorse JStreet. Woody Allen, Streisand, hell, Louis Black!
Stewart, as you are obviously aware, is a hardcore Zionist. He has rarely had a word to say about anything Israel does, but does take the opportunity constantly to remind us that he’s Jewish. and ceaselessly ridicules Arabs and Islam (the other night, Hamas are all liars).
Colbert takes the same approach to the issues, even though he’s a Gentile.
Unless and until people we see and admire daily take the Palestinian side, J Street will have no counter to AIPAC.
I, too, am cynical, but as Obama proves, things can change. It will take more people like you to get there.
Posted by opeluboy on May 23, 2008 at 5:19 PM
opeluboy
I don’t think we disagree that much. Many more Jews oppose a Palestinian state than ones who not only want one, but actively work toward it.
I have no hope that Streisand or Woody Allen would change, but I’d like to think Lewis Black would.
I didn’t know Stewart was Zionist (in the negative sense). That’s too bad
Have you heard of Israeli-born historian Dr. Ilan Papp
Posted by Marta on May 23, 2008 at 11:20 PM
Pappe is NOT radical.
He is down to earth and sensible. He is your conventional next door neighbour academic with the leather patched jacket.
He just happens to be a conscientious scholar and ethically principled.
The fact that he had to clear out from Israel is a reflection not on his stance but on that of his opponents, dedicated to proving that Black is White, or alternatively (as for Benny Morris), Black is Black but we have to carry on as if it’s White of necessity.
Posted by evanj on May 23, 2008 at 11:46 PM
evanj
I don’t consider “radical” a negative word, like “extremist”, which has the connotation of spousing violence
For me, a radical is a person whose beliefs vary radically from those of the current norm.
I’m a radical, but certainly not an extremist.
Yeah, Benny Morris is quite a creep isn’t he? For him to say that he still considers himself on the Left, but that sometimes Ethnic Cleansing is necessary???
WTF? Left as in “Stalin Left”, obviously. Makes my head spin
Posted by Marta on May 24, 2008 at 12:38 AM
Marta,
Good points all. And Einstein was one of the intellectuals who had a problem with all of this.
And yes, very familiar with Pappe.
Posted by opeluboy on May 27, 2008 at 7:40 PM
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Reader Comments
Instructive to hear about the formidable resources of AIPAC - terrifying. Where does the funding come from?
But alas, J Street has arrived too late. Too little to late. A two state solution is now out of the question.
So does J Street merely represent the ‘soft power’ means to similar outcomes? Namely, permanent subjugation of the Palestinian people.
People like Malley, Siegman and Burg are smart cookies. Surely they must stand for something more than endless linguistic blather that merely diverts attention while the ethnic cleansing of the Occupied Territories continues unrelentingly.
Ralph Seliger has nothing but praise for J Street.
If you want a more critical perspective, check out Rannie Amiri on CounterPunch.
http://www.counterpunch.org/amiri04182008.html
Amiri asks some important questions, that Seliger evades.
On its website, J Street says the following about The Two-State Solution
“The outlines of an agreement are by now well-known and widely accepted: Borders based on the 1967 lines with agreed reciprocal land swaps allowing Israeli incorporation of a majority of settlers as well as Palestinian viability and contiguity; a division of Jerusalem that is based on demographic realities, establishes the capitals of the two states, and allows freedom of access to all holy sites; robust security arrangements; and resolution of the refugee issue that focuses on resettlement in the new state of Palestine, financial compensation and assistance.”
Amiri asks the uncomfortable questions:
“Israeli incorporation of a majority of settlers”? “Demographic realities”? Is Ehud Barak’s “generous offer” being re-visited? Will “demographic realities”—a quaint euphemism for the annexation of large swathes of the West Bank and Jerusalem—lead to the Bantustan that Palestine is destined to become? Will the “robust security arrangements” include maintaining the myriad of checkpoints which obstruct access to hospitals, reunion of families and imposition of unnecessary hardship on all but the privileged West Bank settlers who are allowed unencumbered travel?
J Street has nothing to say about the Israel’s Apartheid Wall that annexes large parts of the West Bank. The World Court has ruled the wall to be illegal under international law, but J Street has nothing to say about it.
J Street has a promotional video that praises an Israeli politician, supposedly as an alternative to the extremists supported by AIPAC. Which Israeli politician? None other than Ehud Olmert, whose most notable achievement was Israel’s 2006 invasion of Lebanon! Olmert was a political protege of Ariel Sharon, and became prime minister when Sharon had a stroke. Olmert continued in Sharon’s footsteps, invading Lebanon AGAIN!
I’m not convinced that J Street is all that different from AIPAC. They’re just selling the same product with a softer line, because the AIPAC hardline posture is an increasingly difficult sell to a US public that has started to hear a Palestinian perspective.
Washington already has one Israel Lobby. Do we really need another one?
I am hoping you are wrong, Nevada Ned, but I fear you are correct. Time will tell, and unfortunately there is not much of that left.
I am hoping the people who put J Street together, many of whom I know for a fact to be sincere, are not being duped into a PR stunt designed to make American Jews look like they give a fuck about Palestine.
Sounds like Nevada Ned has done his research, and my hope for a Liberal Jewish lobby that counteracts AIPAC is not yet here.
However, I disagree with opeluboy. There are MANY American Jews (in addition to Israeli Jews) who DO “give a fuck” about Palestinians, and who are sickened by the fascist policies of the Israeli government.
To assume all Jews think the same is as offensive as saying that all Muslims, women, Black people or Latinos think the same. And it leads to more hatred and paranoia on all sides.
PEACE NOW!
Marta, I will believe it when I see it. Name three well-known Jewish entertainers, politicians, musicians that are conspicuously fighting for this cause.
opeluboy
Off the top of my head, these two came to mind.
Did you see Steven Spielberg’s MUNICH?
Have you read any of Noam Chomsky’s books?
Both have been called “self-hating Jews” by the Right-wing, and had many death threats, so other artists and writers are more subtle, but they do work behind the scenes.
I generally don’t know the ethnicity and/or religion of politicians.
I know Lieberman (a Jew) is an AIPAC whore, but so are McCain & Hillary and neither are Jewish.
Marta, in no way whatsoever am I implying there are not American and Israeli Jews fervantly and passionately working for a just peace. I know there are, as I daily receive emails from Gush Shalom, B’Tselem, JVFP, and other peace groups. I am a fan of Chomsky, Zinn, Avnery, Hass, Gordon, Neumann and other Jewish writers, not to mention Finklestein, on this topic. but they are, I believe, rarities.
My point was, when people like Adam Sandler, Jon Stewart, Seinfeld, Larry King
opeluboy
Adam Sandler??? Larry King???
Well, if you wait for those two, you might as well wait for the entire Likkud party to endorse a Palestinian State, and donate a few billion dollars to Islamic madrassas.
Don’t know anything about Seinfeld’s politics—he seems like a nice enough person, but totally disinterested in anything but himself and his “toys”
As far as Jon Stewart, uhmm.
I’d like to think he was more open minded than what you say, as I think he is truly brilliant and very politically aware, but he was one of the many that misquoted Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. (The famous mistranslation on the so-called “destruction of Israel.”
You could be right. It may not be in our lifetime that the majority of American Jews see that state they founded with so much hope has turned to fascism.
But then, just to play devil’s advocate, did you imagine one year ago that a Black man named Barack Hussein Obama had a good chance of becoming the president of the United States?
I am extremely cynical, and fear the worst in 2008, but at least we have a shot at sanity in the Oval Office if Obama gets in. And if THAT happens, who knows what might follow?
(Yes, I know that Obama’s said
Marta,
Yeah, the Sandler and King thought was a bit of a stretch. But you get my point.
I am waiting to see well-known, respected Jews endorse JStreet. Woody Allen, Streisand, hell, Louis Black!
Stewart, as you are obviously aware, is a hardcore Zionist. He has rarely had a word to say about anything Israel does, but does take the opportunity constantly to remind us that he’s Jewish. and ceaselessly ridicules Arabs and Islam (the other night, Hamas are all liars).
Colbert takes the same approach to the issues, even though he’s a Gentile.
Unless and until people we see and admire daily take the Palestinian side, J Street will have no counter to AIPAC.
I, too, am cynical, but as Obama proves, things can change. It will take more people like you to get there.
opeluboy
I don’t think we disagree that much. Many more Jews oppose a Palestinian state than ones who not only want one, but actively work toward it.
I have no hope that Streisand or Woody Allen would change, but I’d like to think Lewis Black would.
I didn’t know Stewart was Zionist (in the negative sense). That’s too bad
Have you heard of Israeli-born historian Dr. Ilan Papp
Pappe is NOT radical.
He is down to earth and sensible. He is your conventional next door neighbour academic with the leather patched jacket.
He just happens to be a conscientious scholar and ethically principled.
The fact that he had to clear out from Israel is a reflection not on his stance but on that of his opponents, dedicated to proving that Black is White, or alternatively (as for Benny Morris), Black is Black but we have to carry on as if it’s White of necessity.
evanj
I don’t consider “radical” a negative word, like “extremist”, which has the connotation of spousing violence
For me, a radical is a person whose beliefs vary radically from those of the current norm.
I’m a radical, but certainly not an extremist.
Yeah, Benny Morris is quite a creep isn’t he? For him to say that he still considers himself on the Left, but that sometimes Ethnic Cleansing is necessary???
WTF? Left as in “Stalin Left”, obviously. Makes my head spin
Marta,
Good points all. And Einstein was one of the intellectuals who had a problem with all of this.
And yes, very familiar with Pappe.
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