Earth to Ken Brociner

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• Reader Comments (10)

  Page 1 of 1 pages

  McCain is not only a warmonger; he is a war criminal.

  To evade discussing this only plays into the hands of the neoliberal, conservative agenda.

  Dropping bombs on the innocent Vietnamese people who never harmed anyone as they scurried for cover hardly is an action one can describe as “heroic;” it certainly needs to be decribed adequately. Refusing to acknowledge that we have a war criminal running for the highest office in this country certainly needs to be stated.

  “Heroic” is the term for those who shot down McCain and the invaders trying to occupy their country.

  To try to coerce us to engage in a campaign of chauvinism where the facts are skewed by suggesting we need to try viewing conservatives as human beings with honest motivations of trying to make the world a better place to live is very dishonest.

  No one doubts McCain, like Bush and Hitler, is a human being.

  The question is, should these human beings be allowed to lead countries and escape having to explain their actions which are detrimental to the rest of the human race.

  Yes, I begrudgingly acknowledge McCain and the conservatives supporting him to be human beings… however, their actions require clear articulation… just what do you call someone who climbs into the cockpit of a fighter jet; flies this plane loaded with death over rice patties and without any concern bombs these “targets” and strafes these rice paddies and the villages with machine gun fire killing innocent people? And make no mistake--- everyone McCain killed, maimed and injured in his many “flights” over Vietnam killed only innocent people--- including the armed Vietnamese resistance who were heroically defending their homeland. Certainly McCain was no ambassador of goodwill for our country in Vietnam. McCain was part of a well thought out campaign of criminal, senseless and illegal death and destruction which was clearly articulated by the war’s generals--- including the Commander in Chiefs--- of destroy everyone and everything.

  What is McCain if he is not a warmonger and war criminal who justly got shot down while caryying out his dirty deeds?

  How does one give such conduct a “human face” or forgive anyone of such responsibility? Why would anyone even suggest that calling McCain and his conservative supporters anything other than what they are: war mongers and war criminals.

  What we really need in this country is a good heavy dose of anti-imperialist education not admonissions to treat war mongers and war criminals with respect because they simply don’t deserve any respect for what they have done and continue to do.

  The last time I gave any thought to all of this it was still wrong to invade the countries of other peoples killing them to coerce them to go along with the expoitation and rape of their peoples and their countries. Last I heard these were actions of imperialists and not a bunch of conservatives with just another view on life and a political outlook aimed at making life better for everyone.

  Alan L. Maki
  Warroad, Minnesota

  Posted by alanmaki on Jul 1, 2008 at 9:16 AM

  Alan,

  This is the kind of rhetoric that Ken (I think) would oppose and I’ll explain why I believe it isn’t justified.

  There is a bigger picture to war than just one person serving as the cog in the machine. All the “war criminal” and other accusations you pin on McCain could just as easily be charged to many leftist that have served in war. After WWII ended people like Howard Zinn (a great progressive today) and Kurt Vonnegut called into question the use of fire bombing civilian cities in Germany and Japan. They came later to understand that they were a cog in a machine that had practiced a form of genocide by targeting civilians rather than military targets. Like McCain, Zinn was a pilot, just a human driving a plane following orders. The only difference between the two is that Zinn later became uncomfortable with his role in that war, and good for him, and then spoke honestly about it.

  Viet Nam had plenty of progressives and leftist emerge after-the-fact. The things they saw and/or did eventually appalled them and they later spoke out about it. It was probably these men (women didn’t do war back then) that were the real catalysts behind the anti-war movement as they had more credibility than college students protesting. But they weren’t war criminals because they were doing what they were essentially forced to do.

  There are many reasons that soldiers become afflicted with post-traumatic stress disorder. But one factor is the confusion of ones personal ethical or moral belief and belief in “defending ones country.” Some people can only “survive” their PTSD by making the argument within themselves that they were being patriotic. Those of us that haven’t gone through the horrors of war don’t really have the right or the empathy to charge them as war criminals and war mongers.

  The war criminals and mongers are those that set the war policy, those that wield the power from the political arena, those that can start and end wars, those that make the decisions that cause war crimes.

  Now, McCain can be described as a war monger as he is in a position of power that has impelled the Iraq War although he still is not a top monger (a minor player) as being a Senator he didn’t set the policy, didn’t do all that the Bush Administration did to start and process the Iraq War. But if elected president, all criticism of his policies as to war and war mongering/criminality will be plausible arguments. Certainly he already is open for charges from day one if he continues Iraq unabated and most certainly if he “bomb, bomb, bomb...bomb Iran,” as he once sung.

  But his Viet Nam experience isn’t rightly characterized as war mongering or criminality, otherwise all those who fought in Viet Nam (no matter their political leanings) would need to be “McCained,” as you’ve done.

  Posted by Jon B on Jul 1, 2008 at 12:48 PM

  Thanks for an excellent article!

  Posted by Nevada_Ned on Jul 2, 2008 at 12:20 AM

  Alan, Jon -

  The Vietnam War was started by a Democrat, continued and escalated by a Democrat, and ended by a Republican.  The Democrats found that intolerable and unforgivable, and destroyed the Republican, who was criminally and politically less culpable than either Kennedy, who stole the 1960 election and damn near got us in a nuclear war, and Johnson, who pissed away $6 trillion (six trillion dollars) on the War on Poverty Socialist experiment that resulted in the near-total destruction of black family life in the United States for generations. 

  So, it is with some amusement that I observe the continuing and escalating internecine warfare among the Democrats, as in this article.

  When Willy Sutton was asked why he robbed banks, he replied that, “That’s where the money is.”

  The center is where the votes are.  After winning the Democratic nomination, Obama inartfully pivoted to the center on a whole range of subjects, drawing the fury of Kos, NYT, and a host of other Leftist Puritans.  And now we see the early stages of a collapsed Leftist candidacy, as it tries to enfold diverse principles (?) and followers.  We have seen this before: McGovern, Dukakis, Mondale.  There are not enough gullible people to vote in a Marxist president.  The chasm between the Marxist true believers and the American people is simply too great. 

  But our system is far superior to previous Socialist experiments.  Stalin really did rob banks to finance the Bolshevik Revolution.  Then he killed his rivals to consolidate his power.  Then he killed great swathes of the population. 

  There are serious arguments that you Socialists kill the innocent civilians under your power because those civilians do not live up to idealistic Socialist expectations.  Do you have a better explanation for the deaths of 100 million innocent people under the Soviet Union, Communist China, North Korea, Vietnam, Cambodia, Eastern Europe?  I.  Think.  Not.

  I am a productive, moderately well-off American with what you Marxists call bourgeois morality, such as those moral values enshrined in the Bill of Rights of the Constitution of the United States.  I am absolutely certain that I do not live up to your Socialist expectations, so I would expect any future Socialist regime in the United States of America to target me. 

  Jon, if you and Blondemike seriously want to target me, you will have to do much better than Blondemike’s genuine .357 Mag popgun.  Bourgeois morality includes a serious commitment to self-defense, as in the bourgeois Second Amendment.  Unlike the poor Kulaks, who were attractive targets for Socialist exploitation and death because they had no means to defend themselves.

  Posted by scorp on Jul 5, 2008 at 10:11 AM

  scorp, “Jon, if you and Blondemike seriously want to target me,...”

  Where did you see that I’m targeting you? You have some sort of paranoia. Is it that anyone that disagrees with you is out to get you? You should get some help. Seriously. Get some counseling.

  Posted by Jon B on Jul 5, 2008 at 7:35 PM

  Jon B -

  Well, let’s have a review of the bidding.

  In our previous correspondence, in “The American Left: What Progressives Can Learn From Obama” article, I reported that Blondemike had threatened to shoot me, among other things, and I said, more or less, that you Socialists are all nucking futz.  Then you declared that my position and Blondemike’s position were morally equivalent and accused me, in the form of a question, of being wrong based on “Two wrongs make a right?”.

  So, Socialist revolutions always attack and kill those who oppose them and a lot of innocent by-standers besides.  You cannot name a single Socialist revolution that did not fit this pattern.  The Socialist evolution in the EU is hotly opposed by the majority in many of the key countries, but there is no bloodshed - yet.  The Socialists EU bureaucrats are just trying to smother the opposition for now. 

  But here in America, there are at least some of your fellows that are threatening bloodshed.  So, based on that, you think I’m paranoid?  You mean like in the Soviet Union where opposition to the state was a recognized psychiatric illness?

  You are nucking futz.  Just don’t pretend to be insulted.

  Posted by scorp on Jul 5, 2008 at 11:20 PM

  Scorp,

  Wow, what an angry dude you are. You should get some drugs when you see the psychiatrist.

  But, I’m going to confess something. See, you are correct, there is a reason for your paranoia. A few years back, the leftist, socialist, marxists, progressives, anarchists, Democrats, Greens, all the people you fear formed a clandestine network called the Secret Collective Of Radical Peaceniks… or SCORP.

  When you took our name of SCORP we had to begin investigating you to see if you had either found out about us or had secretly joined us without telling anyone in SCORP. We’ve had you under surveillance for years.

  That couple that walks their dog past you place, SCORP agents watching you.  The dark nondescript vehicle parked down the street, SCORPers ready to tail you. There are several SCORP agents at your job, but I can’t tell you who they are, it can be hard to replace agents in a company, they have to be hired and all that. But if you think you’ve identified a SCORP at work, just touch them nicely and they will know...but only do that if you want to be part of SCORP. But, I’m thinking you are not interested in joining SCORP, that’s the analysis from all the information collected down at SCORP headquarters.

  So, be ready. When Obama wins the election and the Democrats take more seats in Congress in November, it will be time to move in and get you. Resistance is useless. SCORP interrogation techniques are more unusual then they used to be, thank the Bush Administration for expanding our legal torture methods. We call the new program SCORPTURE. I will let you in on one method...we pipe in Biblical passages at high volume while you are trying to sleep in your cell. It’s excruciating to hear “Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the Earth.” over and over again.

  But, that’s all I can tell you about SCORP, unless you want to join. We have a dues fee and we will send you the SCORP decoder ring when you send the money. SCORP, Secret Collective Of Radical Peaceniks, our motto..."We have our eye on you.”

  Posted by Jon B on Jul 6, 2008 at 8:25 AM

  Jon B -

  Cute.  Irrelevant. 

  You falsely accused me of being disrespectful (truth is a defense) and now you are way off-topic, thus violating the only two guidelines given for this site.

  Would you care to address the issues raised in this discussion?  Almost certainly not, but I continue to try. 

  My observation is that Socialist Revolutions are never led or supported by the workers who are supposed to be the beneficiaries of the Revolution.  Socialist Revolutions are led by militant elitists, who kill off the workers who do not appreciate the efforts of the elitists on their behalf.  Can you give a single example of a Socialist Revolution where this scenario was not followed?  Soviet Union?  China?  North Korea?  Vietnam? Cuba?  Nicaragua?  Chile?  No, you cannot.

  More recently, and following the collapse of militant Socialism, the Socialists have begun to practice Socialist Suppression, as in Europe now.  Same shit, different day.  The Socialist bureaucratic elitists are trying to impose their self-serving agendas on the people, and the people are not buying.  Not only have German, French, and Irish voters rejected the EU Constitution, the only - ONLY - European states now led by overt Socialists are Spain, Portugal, and Austria.  France (Sarkozy), Germany (Merkel), and Italy (Berlusconi) are all recently elected and are all distinctly to the right of the Democratic Socialist model that has prevailed for decades.  And the Eastern Europeans, recently freed from Socialist tyranny, are all passionate free-market capitalist democrats, with astronomical growth rates to match. 

  All Socialist states are inefficient and corrupt at best, and destructive and genocidal at worst.  This is true whether the Socialist state is imposed by militant elitists or by bureaucratic elitists. 

  The American people and workers have historically rejected foreign Socialist schemes that seek to overturn the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.  Barack Obama is the left-most elitist ever to grace the national political scene.  It would certainly be ironic if the USA turned leftward just as Europe is turning rightward.  Naaa.  Never happen.

  Posted by scorp on Jul 6, 2008 at 11:50 AM

  Yeah scorp,

  The subject of the original post is Obama, titled Earth to Ken Brociner, you can read it if you want. So you’re way off topic as to socialism and all your ravings.

  I will address your characterization that he is the most left elitist to ever grace the scene. This is just a variation of Republican talking points that were used against Hillary (early on when it looked as if she would walk to the Democratic nomination) and Kerry in 2004. Supposedly they both were the most liberal in Congress according to Republican talking points, which of course ignored their own previous talking points about Ted Kennedy. But for your current version “of the most” as to Obama added to the Republican same for “most liberal” Hillary in this past year...the fact is that in the Senate resides Vermont’s Bernie Sanders (previously a House member) who proudly claims to be a socialist. He would out liberal every “most liberal” talking point victim the Republicans put forth. In other words, the talking points are lies.

  This race is all about the economy. McCain is a Republican and they have presided over a bad economy. Let’s go over the Bush years. When Bush took office the Dow was about 11,000 and what is it now? Oh, about 11,200. So if one were to put their money in the Dow in anticipation that the Bush years would be a stock boom and woke up today, the result would be hardly making a dime. Oh yeah, it was a few months back that you were claiming that stocks were valued about right, since that time they have now become an official bear market, wrong again.

  Bush years continued. Price of oil at the beginning, about $30 a barrel...today approaching $150 a barrel, five times the price. The federal debt was $5 trillion, by the time Bush walks away, about $10 trillion, he’s doubled that.

  Today, we still have the ongoing mortgage meltdown and experts are saying well into 2009 before default rates level to something considered normal. And we still haven’t hit some sort of bottom for housing prices. In the financial sector we still have a credit crisis underlying. The airline and auto industries are reeling. Oh and let’s not forget about monetary policy. The Bush Administration has claimed repeatedly over the years that they believe in a strong dollar and what have they given us? A weakening dollar, pretty much year after year. And of course inflation is rearing its ugly head.

  The gap between the wealthy and the rest of America has continued to widen. The average wages are stagnating. Personal debt is up. Not only are mortgages in default, but now there is an upswing in auto loan defaults and record numbers of Americans are maxed out on credit cards.

  When it comes to November, people will be blaming Bush and the Republicans (justly so) for a poor economy. They will be voting their wallets. James Carville coined the phrase “It’s the economy, stupid” back in the 1992 election, well so it goes this election year.

  Posted by Jon B on Jul 7, 2008 at 7:58 AM

  My response to “Earth to Ken Brociner” can be read here.

  Ken Brociner

  Posted by kenbrociner on Jul 13, 2008 at 12:29 PM

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• Earth to Ken Brociner