Kurt Vonnegut vs. the !&#*!@

Excellent interview. Must be distributted widely. 

Excellent interview. Must be distributted widely. 

Keep up the good work Kurt! 

I can’t agree enough. I have been a public school teacher for about 12 years then just dropped out because I was so tired of politics- and that being what we are teaching in higher education. I became just as corrupt as this system when Iwas surrounded by it and it only. I was a sculptor working as teacher in 5 major universities and I finally walked away. I left security of all kinds of goodies as well as being treated like a God. It wasn’t worth letting my kids have that kind of father or husband to a wife of now 40 yrs. +. I will tell you from what I learned as a dedicated public school teacher that we are all pickled with our environments we choose to work in x live in. Many times we spend more time with employees and subservers to the extent that becomes our real world. We pickle ourselves with delights usually. This effect could be like strawberry jam as well, in these cases we can’t see anything but red as good and who we are. Our politicians, our ministers, our teachers, our professional atheletes- all are in the same mess. This is a case of needing objective viewers council. That is the reason the teacher likes his students or sorta hates them- when they just don’t know how to agree.
Mankind usually can’t handle a system of no checks and balances and if they are left as the only one in charge. It becomes a corupt scene -corrupted by letting someone else tell us what to do. As a teacher I always thought we are the richest country in the world with the lowest self esteem in each individual. Sincerely,
PA- Why don’t we have one central radio station that handles all Politics? Let everyone have equal time next to their opposition, etc, etc. Jim Foster

He is an arrogant academic who has never had to work an honest day in his life… this arrogance is what cost the left the recent election… as a struggling blue collar worker, I don’t need some arogant idiot to tell me what is right and what I should believe… for all the morons on this message board… your self perceived intellectual supremeacy is more damaging to society than any c student could be… at least the c student knows they are not the brightest… you alll just pretend to be intellectually superior when in relaity your academic theories have prevented you fom seeing the world for what it really is… get a life!!

I must thank you, Mr. Vonnegut for remaining a high-profile voice of reasonin these troubled times. I have thought it strange, to say the least, that those in political power are rarely the most qualified for the job. That a “C-student” from Yale is our Commander and Chief is disheartening indeed.
That any protest will not be viewed favorably by the media is no reason not to protest. We have a civil and moral obligation to do what we must to change the current world trend. I have seen it posted, most recently outside of City Lights Books in San Francisco, that “Dissention Is Not Un-American.” The basis of America is the freedom to espouse our own opinions and to voice them in the proper ways. Though a protest may have the impact on the world, or States, as a banana creme pie isn’t sufficient reason not to hold a protest in some fashion. We have an obligation to ourselves, our fore-fathers, and our descendents to make the world better now. That there are other persons who are obviously supporting this idea, I can tell by the readers’ response to Mr. Vonnegut’s interview, all persons should do their part to rectify the situation. Just please remember to protest within the framework of the Constitution. The power is there for the movement, don’t resort to the tactics the sub-par leaders do.
Thank you Mr. Vonnegut for your inspirational words and In These Times for the decency to print them.

Response to David “Peace! (Well after a little bit of liberating war)”:

Again, unfortunately, there is always SOMEONE who wants to conquer the world ... to dominate ... to oppress. And as the world’s most powerful nation, is has fallen on USA to BE that SOMEONE.

Regime change starts at home!

George from Honolulu sees the world for what it really is and has got a life!  Let’s all be like George and do nothing, think nothing, feel nothing and be nothing but an idiot. Aloha

Kurt talks more sense than any of the usual suspect commentators! Perhaps somebody out there might hear what he has to say and do something about it. The world still has a chance but not much of one. 

My piece of crap system won’t display any comment in this thread below the ‘bag of rice’ post.  I’m outta here.

Thanks for the ride Kurt, Joel! It’s been fun.  Bye all!

http://www.votetoimpeach.org

Joe… there is one thing I did do… and it was vote… and this surfers vote was able to help elect a republican governor which Hawaii has not had in about 40 years… decades of pathetic leadershipo and corruption have made me switch sides and enough was enough… and yes I am about to do nothing and go surfing in this great state… what are you going to be doing in Boston?  Going to solve the worlds problems from a coffee shop? Good luck… Mahalo....  from a proud c student/surfer…

I guess it’s nice to see other opinions like that of George from Hawaii, since political discussions all too often tend to be one-sided; I just wish that his wasn’t so badly informed.  Vonnegut isn’t an academic, and he doesn’t sound much at all like the academics I’ve encountered.  He fought in WW2 (yes, fought, as opposed to chickenhawk Bush and his cronies, and Clinton as well, who pulled strings to get themselves out), and wrote for a living the rest of his life.  And not dry intellectual stuff that only stays in print because they’re assigned for classes - but hugely popular stuff that makes people laugh and cry and think.  Vonnegut is read by extremely broad and diverse and often not-at-all-intellectual audiences.  So you’re barking up the wrong tree here.

And besides, saying that academics don’t work an honest job is pretty insulting and uniformed, not to mention anti-intellectual.  I can certainly respect choosing certain Republicans to get rid of Democratic corruption, and the Democrats badly dropped the ball in our state - but there’s a big difference between that and supporting GWB and his war. 

George, I respect your opposite opinion - but you’re making it seem like Vonnegut’s is a dominant position, that liberal intellectuals have any power at all, when in fact they’re just a small contrary voice, part of the checks and balances that attempt to keep power honest and to keep our nation legitimately aimed toward justice and fairness.  Unfortunately it’s not doing a very good job with our current regime so far, but let’s not go out of our way to bully such voices into silence, shall we?

“Sometimes I wonder about The Creator of the Universe.” --Breakfast of Champions

Me too, Kurt.  Me too. 

Thanks for a terrific interview!
What we all can do:
Support groups working for change and protecting our rights,i.e. ACLU, amnesty international, NOW, Common Cause, True Majority, Doctors without Borders, The Sierra Club,Patrick Henry, Public Citizen, etc. There are lots of groups out there trying to save the United States from Duhbya and his godless Ayn Rand masters. Check out their websites. They make it so simple to take meaningful action.
BuyMichaelMoore,Vonnegut,Chomsky,Todd Gitlin,Howard Zinn,,Lewis Lapham,Scott Ritter,Gore Vidal, etc. books. Support humanitarians with your money. If you can’t afford to buy them - read them.
Subscribe to “In These Times. The Nation, Mother Jones, The Prgressive, etc.
Boycott corporate media - The New York Times, Time, Newsweek - if you want to read them, do it at the library.
Watch Donohue, listen to Skee and Skinner or whatever you can find that has a liberal point of view and support their sponsors. Listen to rush, et.al. boycott their sponsors.
Buy union,american products if at all possible. Buy local, home grown when you can. Pay alittle more if possible to support your neighbor.
If you have a phone switch to Working Assets for your long distance calls.
March. Demonstrate for peace. Do not be silent. Write letters.
IMPEACH BUSH!

I find it interesting that we talk so poorly about the government of the united states while other governments, most notibly those of iraq, who have proven records of torture and murder of their own people seem to be accepted. How is it that the PP’s are only in this country. 

George, in this coffee shop we just want the truth.  We want a complete investigation into 9/11. We want to know why GWB has not caught Bin Laden. We want to know why we are going to attack and murder innocent Iraqi children.  Everyone here is voting for impeachment.  That may be the only way to get the truth. 

Right on - PP a sure fit. Thanks to Joel.  The educated are taught:  hard analysis is the only acceptable means of looking at a situation—which analysis must be broadly published to garner helpful critique and corroboration—and should it still stand, the result then becomes truth ‘till modified.

Shock! Plainly intuitive people running things by puttin’ a finger in the wind and deferring to grace of god led U.S. to Enronian accounting, and without regard for much beyond opaque thinking indeed, now head our government. Meanwhile, unfathomable amounts of analysis keep royal squires and all lower lifeforms rolling in trenches, each at the other’s throat, unable or unwilling to notice the water rising around all of them both in height and heat!

More intuitive than analytical also, I seem to “get it” a bit ahead of time and without being able to explain specifics. I find I need to rely on people with sound analytical judgment to justify or oppose what I feel, but I’m often frustrated when the rest of us also “get it” just a little too late to make a difference (global warming?).

Once I believed that the U.S. government, really the basis of all our institutions, was broadly based in democracy and tempered by/tempering the free marketplace of ideas, as properly should our deepest deliberator and most balanced arbitrator. Now I feel like my point of reference has evaporated. The logical ends of these thoughts leave me floating in future space without propulsion or guidance. Is what we are about to experience ultimately Texan, the land of the free, and home of the brave?

Is Earth to be a thriving microcosm of rugged individuals who crash like galaxies through one another, inexorably accreting until all existence becomes either themselves alone - or nothing at all?

I truly despise arriving again at this intersection between a speculative economic crash and a fascist leadership. It was no harbinger of good tidings last time around, as K.V. is fortunately (just) old enough to remember. It places the immense burden against everyman, everywoman and everychild to personally care for humanity’s joint and several responsibilities around the world.

Having to educate and organize armies of citizens to take to the streets cannot be an easy or desirable additional sideline. Yet our alternatives seem to narrow. Help, ye heavens! And thanks, for what this may be worth in sanctity of vastness, for Kurt Vonnegut!

To any Christian that supports this war, I have to ask something I saw on a picket sign carried by another Christian in DC.

Who would Jesus bomb? 
Although I am not a Christian, I do feel compelled to make some defense of Christianity after reading through some of the debate here.

I don’t think that Christianity itself is responsible for the offensive and psychotic behavior that is exhibited by so many people in the name of Christ. I do think that the extremely intimate nature of religious concepts such as omniscience, omnipresence and omnipotence are dangerous toys in the minds of people, who, as psychopaths to begin with, are incapable of respect for the feelings and boundaries of other human beings. This particular misfortune is often rendered disasterous when exacerbated by the Christian tenet of proselytization. 

My mother is someone I consider to be a “good Christian” although (and because) she rejects proselytization.  My father was an agnostic but, my mother does not exclude him for this from her belief that we will all someday be joyously reunited in the “big turkey coop” in the sky.

While we were raised to understand that profanity is not attractive coming from the mouths of children, we were taught that coming from Kurt Vonnegut or in an independent film, it is art and is in such cases, legitimate. What was strictly forbidden were any expressions of bigotry and especially the use of the word “hate”. You could say “genocide is an act of hatred” but you could not say “I hate him” or even “ I hate broccoli”. When said about a human being it was considered violent and if it was about vegetables or homework it was considered shamefully trite. This was something my parents strongly agreed upon regardless of their varying creation theories.

My point in sharing all of this is that, while I fully support a satirist attack on Assholes (such as dutifully noting the irony that so many white supremecists call themselves Christians) in all of their diverse methodologies of hypocrisy and madness, I do become concerned when we, as self-proclaimed peace-lovers, make the leap that all Christians are therefore psychos and white supremicists. It smacks of religious profiling to me.

I confess to loving a brutal satirist but, when our faces are straight and our generalizations become too sweeping we should remember to show some mercy.

In Struggle and Awe,
Nannette

Religious profiling?  I don’t believe any man or woman has the moral right to call him/herself a Christian, Moslem, Jew, Hindu or anything else if he or she supports the commission of murder on orders from Bush or any other maniac on the world’s stage. 

A wonderful interview!
And for all you warmongers:
Stop bitchin and hug somebody… it seems like you need it…

Religion is a wonderful tool to enslave, kill, and opress people…
“No, I don’t know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered as patriots. This is one nation under God.”
George W bush.

“When the white man came we had the land and they had the Bible. They taught us to pray with our eyes closed and when we opened them, they had the land and we had the Bible.”
Jomo Kenyatta, Kenyan independence leader

“Our ignorance is God; what we know is science.”
Robert Ingersoll

“A man’s ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death.”
Albert Einstein

Give it some thought…

Kurt - EXCELLENT
all the comments - EXCELLENT
It’s a good thing for a 24 yr.old to know there are real human beings out there, not just robots doing as their told!!

Finally some truth. Kurt is beautiful. 

It’s frightening to know that nuclear weapons may some day be in the hands of our enemy who is a ruthless dictator and who gasses his own people to death with chemical weapons.

It’s also frightening to know that such weapons are now in the hands of a word leader who cannot even pronounce the word “nuclear.”

Vonnegut should be put out to pasture with all the others of his ilk and era.  Time has passed him by and soon he will die and we will be rid of the garbage he spews.  I’m not saying he shouldn’t be able to speak openly, I defend anyone’s right to speak freely.  I just believe that he is delusional and has no true grip on reality.  Kurt, please favor us all with an eternal absence.  I hear that there’s a need for washed up old hacks in the next life. 

Just don’t play the game. When ever you can. When enough people stop playing the game it must end. Like a monoply game that has lasted to long people get up and leave the Table. The one left sitting wins?(Hint the winner is left alone and has to clean up and put away the game by them selves.)Protest may not work.So let’s have a slave rebelion."Oloardee Masta Ijust doon no how that happened oyes ibeemakin it okay i just shoon as i can!!” 1776

Excellent article!  Kurt Vonnegut’s still got it!
www.WeWantPeaceOnEarth.com

this is the man. always reminds me of the more than considerable part he has played in my life. “on the money"again. truth. so rare,so amazing and the most incredible gift is being blessed with mr. vonnegut as a conduit for so much.
a close aunt turned 80 a few weeks ago. we were speaking of you a few days ago(she reads k.v.as well). active,well and intelligent,still she feels “hey,i’m 80. close the book.” i can’t wait ‘til she reads this.?/ i gave my grandmother one of his books when she was about 65. he was still a hero to her when she left at 89.
do not stop sir. please. like so many despairing humans out here,then,now and in whatever future we condemn ourslves to,dammit we need you.
a mere 48 myself, a conflagration of much needed hope for life has been been ignited from this interview and the millions of sparks that you have already planted in me. thank you!

Well I agree with him of course, but it’s written in a self-indulgent fashion that isn’t productive.  I mean he’s Kurt Vonnegut, he’s as quotable as all hell.  He could have writen something that actually might even make it into some mainstream news and actually be considered.  “Assholes”, “a pitcher of spit”, “kiss my ass!” In other words this is too easy to write off.  He built a dented car here.  I bet it felt really good to him to write this, but ventilation detracts from validity.  What Bush understands that Kurt doesn’t is simply that presentation matters, like it or not. 

Good God . . . what a foul tempered, disgruntled old man Vonnegut has become. 

Well, at least it’s some consolation to know his views on keeping the world safe for Islamofascism are entirely inconsequential. 

God Bless You, Kurt Vonnegut.

You are the King of Pessimism and like it or not, you speak the truth.

Eggs and Poop on these bastard, pudge nard phonies! The only language they speak is the language of Fear.

We must remember this and not buy what they’re selling, what they’re shoving down our sleepy throats! It’s their Fear of confused sexual natures, Fear of black men and a repressed preoccupation with the size of tools. But we are one mind and they don’t use theirs’ so it’s time to push!

Think, Act, Network and Do It Now because this here’s a game of inches and they refuse to evolve past the age old barbarism of our rapidly developing DNA.

When they squeal ‘Ahmageddon!’ You Shove Back: ‘Youdda gettin’—NOTHIN!’

We cannot sit back and allow these PPs to destroy everything. They are SICK and they must be CURED by our ACTION.

GO! Get Moving. Remember: they CAN be STOOD DOWN!

A mobilized force of the global mind GROWS BY THE MINUTE! And listen to Mike from NY above, rant and rave when in like company, but WATCH YOUR PRESENTATION! I wore a freakin’ tie to the 1/18 Anti-War March in SF in the hopes of RECRUITING those millions who’re sitting on the fence, held back by so many stereotypes and misrepresentation of the side of sanity.

We need to do what we can to get the REAL MAJORITY out there MOVING AND GETTING ACTIVE!

Nihilism doesn’t cut it anymore. If you know, share it...standing on the sideline with your smirk as the fools cough up Right Wing A.M. radio epitaphs...this isn’t good enough anymore. Share what you know? Ask a war supporter: ‘What about the 160,000 Gulf War I casualties?’ (Given they care nothing about the thousands dead and dying in Iraq due to our Pentagon’s use of Depleted Uranium Munitions) Ask them: ‘How will dropping 800 Patriot Missiles upon the city of Baghdad, killing thousands of innocent people...how will this make us safer in the United States?’ Ask them: ‘Would you use a SHOTGUN to remove a TUMOR!!!?’

GET LOUD! GET MOVING!

Calm yourself . . . listen to some soothing music . . . try not to picture yourself an the wrong side of history suurounded by dottering old fools and passionate young ones. 

Just relax.  It will all be over in a few short weeks and then you can resume your animal rights demonstrations and rightious indignation over genetically modifed foods. 

But issues of war and peace are clearly a bit over your head.  Better just leave it to the real progressives . . . the ones who want to liberate oppressed people . . . not just talk about it. 

vonnegut for president!

Murphy,

You put the HIP in the HYPOCRITE and the ASS in the ASSHOLE.

And that gets you ****

Cheers, fellow ‘liberator.’

Kurt Vonnegut has turned bigot in his dotage. 

ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US!

<sigh> all we’re doing is still talking… even though the rice and the protests which are touching actions with some, although little consequence. All i’m doing here is talking. Atheist, muslim, christian jew… whatever. Each of these groups has committed horrendous crimes against humanity. It isnt the groups though, that’s the entire point. It’s PEOPLE. It’s easy to slap a “sponsored by” sticker on anything, from sports to genocide. Yes Iraq has a corrupt government. Yes the living standards in the middle east arent fantastic in all places… but north america has it’s ignored starving and impoverished as well. We too are guilty of horrible crimes, the only thing is that we are the directors of what the world sees so we can quite easily cut what we dont want to be shown out of the picture.
Call me a marxist or whatever you want, but it is capitilism that is truly behind all this talk of war. Oil is a valuable commodity, war brings on fear and it is easy to unite people with half truths and subtle lies. If capitilism stops, how can they fund a war? They’re already 3 billion in debt over the past year and a bit… i guess the only possibly way to stop this is for all of us to refuse to work, to refuse to play our roles as the turners of the wheels of capitilism.... too bad some people dont have that option.

My utmost respect and admiration to those who seek to better the conditions of the people around them and even of those far away. I just feel sorry that Utopia is just a dream.

So it goes, Kurt, so it goes.  Poor guy, stuck in time with Eugene Debs. 

a “C-student” is a bozo like me who fared poorly in school, and got C’s in most or all of their classes.
of course, i’m not the President of the USA, who was also a C student.

“yay! i’m gonna be sick!” - GIR

this is nuts - a C- writer makes psychiatric diagnosis (PP) while in the throes of psychotic senility - and a bunch of political dimwits swoon - wake up guys! socialism is opium of the masses - emerge and breathe fresh air

“...the great machine is History!” but my love and I will not be rolled over.  These words and others by Mr. Vonnegut have eased my worried soul in the past and always will.  I’m voting for him in two years. 

You all know Broward County Florida found 100,000 lost votes AFTER Jeb Bush was reelected last November, yes?

“http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?
file=/news/archive/2002/11/07/politics0703EST0490.DTL”

I did a search on the population of the school districts. Most of them declared 50% - 95% black.

The attacks on George Bush’s intelligence aren’t hurting him. People are identifying with him. We need to focus on his inconsistencies. Like how even the Canadian Mounties tracked Saudi funds to the al-Qaida (http://www.nationalpost.com/home/story.html?
id={E2910DDA-D505-4C11-B2A1-9482B50D3AD0}), and George Sr still takes their money through the Carlyle Group (http://www.judicialwatch.org/1685.shtml). 

As for “oppressed peoples” check out how Fleischer dodges questions on how Reagan and Bush funded and covered for Hussein when he gassed his own people (21 Jan): http://usinfo.state.gov/cgi-bin/washfile/display.pl?p=/products/washfile/
latest&f=03012106.tlt&t;=/products/washfile/newsitem.shtml

I mostly like what Vonnegut says, but I think John Pilger says it better, especially in his article, BLOODY COWARDS, where he writes:
<blockquote>
The current American elite is the Third Reich of our times, although this distinction ought not to let us forget that they have merely accelerated more than half a century of unrelenting American state terrorism:…
</blockquote>
I would add that pacifist tactics didn’t stop the Third Reich and they won’t stop the new, AmeriKKKan version. The difference now is that there’s no Soviet Union to defeat the new would-be world conquerors, so the mostly relatively non-violent mass actions will necessarily be complemeted by lots of individual and small-group armed actions against the Empire and its collaborators around the world.
<p>
Of course, when even one imperialist mass murderer is cut down by an assassins bullet, we can expect the empire’s kept media to shout “terrorism!”. Will In these Times and other supposedly alternative media join the chorus?

There is no difference in the mentality displayed by Vonnegut and other religious fundamentalists like Jerry Falwell.  If someone strongly disagrees with these fundies, that’s enough to prove the opponent is insane and probably evil, too.  These people earnestly think their fervent belief turns an opinion into truth.  And the beauty part is that while they can recognize this flaw in the “other side,” they’d never in a million years question their own assumptions.

Vonnegut, Falwell and their respective pinhead fans aren’t evil.  Just pathetically self-deluded. 

Fuck you vonnegut

I used to be a fan of Vonnegut. Clearly the poor man has lost his mind. Terrible thing to happen to a once talented human being. 

Iraq will be Bush’s modern-day Waterloo.  With millions of deaths, I hope it wakes up those who are hypnotized and who support him to the fact that he is a tyrant.  What breaks my heart is the millions both here and abroad who will have to die before that happens.  Maybe it still wont happen and all those deaths will be in vain.  I would also expect another major terrorist attack in this country so Bush will get more of their support. 

Yes, while criticizing Bush’s intellect doesn’t seem to penalize him, I believe he is vulnerable because his supporters view him as a moral person, when he clearly isn’t. As well as obscuring his own father’s involvement in strengthening the very terrorists and dictators he dispises, his public statements are in contradiction to his actions.

For example, the 31 July Washington Post covered Bush signing the corporate fraud bill into law. “The era of low standards and false profits is over; no boardroom in America is above or beyond the law...”

But the article also says, “Eight hours after the signing, the White House issued an interpretation of the law that… said the administration would provide federal job protection for employees who are cooperating with an investigation authorized by the House or Senate. Sen. Patrick J. Leahy (D-Vt.) said the section was intended to be much broader, and to apply also to whistle-blowers who provide evidence of fraud to an individual lawmaker, even before a formal investigation is launched....”

There is no defense against a hidden or personal agenda. Bush isn’t stupid. He’s chicken shit.

What an iconoclastic position for Kurt to take.  Whoa.  It just blows my mind that a leftist intellectual would be critical of the present govt.  How unexpected.
It wd be interesting to hear a reasoned proposal for pacifism as viable foreign policy.  The emphasis should be on “reasoned.”
We face tough issues.  Here’s hoping the left wakes up.

Maybe you’re the one who’s lost his mind, Joe...or perhaps you’ve simply ‘changed’ maybe after years of sedation brought about by mild prosperity, you’ve lost your conscience, you’ve lost vision. You’ve lost the ability to see through the illusion that exists before all of us. I believe Mr. Vonnegut has remained ‘on message’ throughout and since you no longer like him, Joe, perhaps you have simply forsaken the ability to know what to believe in any longer. 

After reading this thread I can see that the heathens who elected Bill Clinton the President of this country and still alive and well. I thank the Lord every morning that President Bush is now in charge to clean up Clinton’s mess. Vonnegut can write, Vonnegut is entertaining, but when push comes to shove we need real men and women to make real decisions. 

Oh, and hey, did anyone catch Mark Shields on the PBS Newshour yesterday? The individual income taxes from 31 states is eaten up by INTEREST on the national debt alone. And I think that’s WITHOUT the proposed tax cut. Didn’t htat heathen Bill Clinton (as a liberal president with a conservative legislature) have that pretty much under control?

But NOOO—fucking Republicans have to have the executive AND legislative branches of the government. Yeah, woo-hoo for sacrificing middle-class investment and savings to gratify the Bush family pals formerly at Enron.

Clinton was fortunate in that he never had to make the tough decisions during his tenure. The economy was good and nothing earthrattling happened in the world. I’ll give Clinton credit for one thing - he was smart enough to leave the economy alone when it was producing. But maybe if Clinton had responded as the real leader of the free world after the bombings of our embassies in East Africa and of the USS Cole, Bin Laden would have thought twice about attacking the World Trade Center. It doesn’t really matter who does or doesn’t like us. It’s whether they respect our power that counts. That respect is what prevents wars in the long run. 

Vonnegut’s work and insights will be studied a thousand years after “Nuyular” George Jr. and his gang have been forgotten. 

I seem to be missing something in the current debates concerning “The War Against Iraq”. I loved the interview with Vonnegut, as always, his words are heartful and intelligent. War is bad. That’s, as they say, a no brainer. But it is also true, as Vonnegut pointed out, we live in a world of Assholes with a capital “A”.  And isn’t Saddam one of the most repugnant assholes of our time? I believe the most realistic protest at this point--should be demanding our government act with proper and fair conduct (whether at war or not). The bad guy identified is clearly a threat to women and children in his own land. It would be reprehensible for us to lose any more good people by a hesitation of action. However, during our moment of action it is critical that we perform our duties as humanly as possible. This is my great fear: that we will go to Iraq and commit crimes just as injust as Saddam’s. But that isn’t necessarily so. I do believe Saddam should not be left in power--and I would make a large bet many people from Irag would agree--but not at the cost of collateral damages. One child killed by Americans in Irag is one child too many. But having said that: Kill Saddam and let him work out his karma next lifetime. We will certainly have to deal with our own. 

Didn’t Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein prosper UNDER THE PATRONAGE OF RONALD REAGAN AND GEORGE HW BUSH? Why don’t we deal with this problem BY FIRING THE FRANCHISE THAT’S RESPONSIBLE FOR CREATING IT?

In business, it’s known as throwing away good money after bad. We should fire the people responsible for creating this mess—they aren’t sorry.

I believe that it’s called the law of unintended consequences. Both Saddam and bin Laden were deemed by the establishment as mercenaries who could serve our purposes at one time, and two monsters were created.  But things could be worse. At least we are discussing the political views of Kurt Vonnegut, one of the great literary illuminaries of our time. On a cloudier day, one might actually give credence to the political philosophy of Toni Morrison. 

Kurt Vonnegut is a fool.  This drivel makes me glad I never fell for his fiction when I was a student.  Now as in the past, this country will do what it must to stand up to tyranny, and ultimately to prevail.  Fools like Mr. Vonnegut will not stop us.

Thank you for taking the time to ask one of the most acute authors for his opinion on some fundamental questions. Even at 80 he has the edge most people only dream about. I agree with him on the rise of the “pp” they are everywhere and may kill us all with there lack of respect for everything. In Kurts short story collection, Welcome To The Monkey House society looks a lot like it does right now for us, saturation point. 

The law of unintended consequences does not absolve responsibility.

Who the hell is Toni Morrison, and what does she have to do with appointing Henry “I can’t leave the US without getting arrested as a war criminal” Kissinger to lead (thwart) the 9-11 security lapse probe?

Who you callin a candy ass? just tried getting on your web site and nothing happened, you wanna sort that out. I just realised my blurb was not on here when you said that so ill let it go. 

Now, John says he is from Minnesota—so I know he can’t be an FBI agent. If he were an FBI agent, he would be too busy being thwarted by his Washington home office from investigating known terrorists enrolled in flight schools to post here…

What all you people do not realize is that your type are the very people that the radical muslims hate about America. God help us all.

As opposed to who? As opposed to the very people who trained and armed the radical Muslims to act on their hate?

Addressing the radical Muslims threat is a responsibility that should be taken away FROM THOSE RESPONSIBLE FROM CREATING THE PROBLEM IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Ok, I’m officially repeating myself.

Please allow me to withdraw on this final observation:

ONE THOUSAND POINTS OF LIGHT. THREE THOUSAND REASONS TO STEP DOWN.

vonnegut and his ilk are the people who would say, upon discovering the concentration camps of hitlers germany, lets not get into a shooting war over this lets wait and see what adolph’s intentions are.talk about assholes, vonnegut is the all-time king of assholes! 

I’ve seen these “Impeach Bush” bumper stickers in Massachusetts, but then that’s the state where you encounter a vacant state if you mention Chappaquidick. Bush has no reason to step down, but other Republicans have done so to further spare their country and their party the further embarrassment of dealing with the aftermath of their mistakes. If a certain Democrat had done the same, then most probably Al Gore would be President today, and you wouldn’t have Bush to kick around. 

What pathetic, sour, senile drivel! 

A “C” student is one who just gets by in college with mediocre grades.  A “C” is normally not acceptable in most graduate programs but it is technically a passing grade for any particular course.  A “C” average could suggest that the student is either unable to absorb the coursework fully or has other priorities (like partying or making business/political connections, etc.).  In short a “C” student is not normally considered a very good student. 

Glad to see Mr. Vonnegut is still alive and kicking.  He has long been my favorite author.  America needs his voice today more than ever.  Thank you Mr. Vonnegut.  Keep it up! 

I like Kurt Vonnegut and all, and i’m pretty hesitant about our government killing people for vague and obviously trumped up reasons (I don’t think any intelligent person carrying on an intelligent communication would use the word “evil” without really defining it-that’s “trumping” the reasons), but that wasn’t an especially amazing interview. I don’t understand all the “absolutely marvelous” comments.

Thank you, don’t lose faith, there is intelligence and understanding among the masses. 

Nice to know the state of the ‘loyal’ opposition, and the reckless disregard of useful idiots concerning the best country on the planet. Maybe Mr. Vonnegut can finish his retirment in France or Germany?

A.F

Maybe you should leave this FREE country.  I can arrange for your permanent departure. 

To put Vonnegut in the same club as Falwell is in itself pathetically deluded!  I am astounded that anybody who knows Vonneguts work could make such a silly mistake. 

What were Mr. Vonneguts grades in highschool/college? 

As always, Vonnegut never disappoints me.  He has articulated the state of Bush and his posse of ‘decision makers’ well: “And those now in charge of the federal government are upper-crust C-students who know no history or geography....” You know I really always thought this but I can’t say that I could have put it as clearly.
Also, it is lamentable but it is true, peaceful protestors (artists included) have about as much power to reverse a governmental decision as a ì… pitcher of warm spit,î --Yuk!!
Perhaps he is right, maybe the only way to get television interested is to riot. 

Anybody want to riot?

~Velvet. 

Our beloved Mr. Vonnegut is searingly correct about the “PP’s.” I would add that ALL neo-conservatives are PP’s to some degree.  They do lack empathy; they are actually incapable of this essentially human trait.  Mr. V is right: they are indeed nuts!
(P.S. I love you Mr. V.  Thank you for sharing your life, wisdom, and talent with us for so long.  God bless you!)

C students, PP’s-Mother Nature is far too generous with her output of the common, average man. 

Nice article.  Just a though though…
1.  Our president is from Texas.
2.  The space shuttle broke up over Texas.
3.  First Israeli in space on the shuttle.
4.  200,000 feet at Mach 6 (6 times the speed of sound)
5.  War in the middle east.
Ok, God is tired of all this middle east shit, and how regardless of what the Israeli’s do, they are the good guy, and can have “weapons of mass destruction” cause they are our “friends”, but nobody else can have them.  How would God let Mr. President know that maybe he should think about the effects of making the war in the middle east larger, and possible causing catastrophic consequences?  Why not take a perfectly sound aircraft, like the shuttle, with a perfect mix of ethnic groups (American, Israeli, African, Indian) and make it come apart in the sky over his home state?  What was the name of that philosopher that said the world would end around this timeÖNostra something?  So maybe his calculations were off a few years.

<<I would add that ALL neo-conservatives are PP’s to some degree. They do lack empathy; they are actually incapable of this essentially human trait. Mr. V is right: they are indeed nuts! >>

Conservatives have empathy.  I would suggest greater empathy than Liberals.  It is just that conservatives understand that tough love sometimes works better than plain love.  They understand that FAILURE to act costs MORE lives in the end.  A child who is hanging with the wrong crowd and getting into drugs doesn’t have “addictive personality traits and a propensity towards self medication” He has a drug problem that needs to be stopped.  Period.  A conservative would send that child to tough love camp, not an addictions counselor who will spend 5 years trying to determine how many hugs the child failed to receive in elementary school!  Imagine the countless lives that would have been saved if Europe would have dealt with Hitler in the early 1930s instead of signing worthless treaty after worthless treaty.  Failure to act, in that case, cost MILLIONS of lives.  Conservatives have GREAT empathy, but also the ability to get beyond their emotions for the greater good. 

I didn’t realise Mr Vonnegut was still alive! My neon tube is this day less horrified by the meat covering it, for that information. We live in interesting times. Is there any chance that we can send inspectors in to various questionable regimes that we have reason to believe are openly using weapons of mass rhetoric?

OTS

It seems as if everyone (no matter your point of view) really enjoys waxing prophetic while debasing all those who disagree, often with cursing and pointless personal put-downs.  As much as I enjoy reading these “debates”, they do more to spread bi-partisan ill-will and disinfornation than providing open forums debates .  Between the blinders that keep mass media focused in one direction and the unending stream of so-called “facts”, most often fiction, from bloggers that blur the truth even more, it’s impossible fo anyone to step back and seperate the issues that face the United States.
There isn’t one of us who didn’t mourn the losses suffered on September 11th and those responsible for that terrible day should face punishment, but this is seperate from Iraq and Saddam Hussien. 
Hussien is an evil man.  While he was fighting Iran he was our evil man.  We sold him nerve gas, and weapons, and other supplies to kill.  (That’s how we have an inventory of his WMD.) From what I understand Bin Laden and other fundamentalist Muslims can’t stand Saddam, because he uses his counties vast wealth for himself and his cronies, not his people.  Step back, look at what you can actually say is fact (all you people out there who site evidence of Saddams nukes should know better) and seperate your 9/11 fellings from Iraq and reevaluate.
Mr. Vonnegut mentioned fighting in a just war.  Is he still a pacifist?  Personally, I believe in fighting wars if the cause is just.  There are a number of countries within range of Iraqs’ missles and “Weapons of Mass Destruction”, but the United States, a country well out of range and danger of Iraq, is the only one feeling threatened.  Meanwhile, Kim Jong, in North Korea has been starving his people for 20 years, has acquired nuclear weapons and will shortly be able to reach the US with his missle technology.  What do our leaders do?  They offer him oil and money to stop, after they said they wouldn’t, and when North Korea refuses our leader pledges to the nation not to be blackmailed.
Hopefully someone will read this and we can start a debate about inconsistent foreign policy, or Iraqi threat vs the N.Korea threat, but I’d like people to clean up their debates, stick to what you know as “truth” , label your opinions and remember that dissenting opinion is what created this country. The fact that we can post this stuff without be exiled, jailed or killed should make us all proud, no matter what you believe.

Do socialists who are in the lower class often do car commercials?  Seems like an upper class capitalist thing to do to me.

I thought this awonderfully refreshing clearsighted assessment,though I believe striking out at every PP “C” student in our corporate government spreads out energy too thin and will fail to make change.

I believe a concerted illumination of the editorial crimes of our media, will poison the enabling soil which husbands either the growth or death of liars and cheats. 

Following Andrew Sullivan’s Sontag award nomination for Vonnegut’s comments, I thought I’d try once again to see if the left has anything coherent to say about American foreign policy in general and Iraq in particular.

Well, Vonnegut’s interview turned out to be just what I expected—the ramblings of a senile old fool that provide not even a trace of a rational argument nor a single relevant fact—just vitriolic anti Bush rhetoric. Vonnegut is clearly a third-rate writer, with a tenth-rate mind who isnít fit to shine President Bush’s shoes.

It’s a total mystery how you Vonnegut groupies buy into his intellectually vacuous hatreds. Don’t you have the sense to realize that it’s precisely because of decisive leaders like Bush that Vonnegut has the freedom to spew his hatreds? 

Again he stuns the world!  Vonnegut is brilliant!

Kurt, check out www.billforcongress.org

Vonnegut aspires to be an idiot. 

very well written and thought provoking

Couldn’t have said it better (wish I had written what B. R. West wrote). May you live forever Mr. Vonnegut

Yeah! Rock on Kurt.
I was first told to read his books in the late seventies. I will do so now.
A man of my heart. 

Bush was elected by the normal process.  Gore would be President if he had won his home state.  We should remain faithful to the constitutional process.

I didn’t get c’s at Yale.  I couldn’t get into yale.

Hitler needed to be stopped by the French Army and held to the Versailles Accords.  Churchill wanted to do that but couldn’t get any support.  A students probably remember the rest.  We have the same chance to stop Hussein.  It should be done.

This Islamic Fundamentalist Revolution is serious and needs to be opposed. They don’t stand for the values we cherish.

Could any of this be clearer? 

know this one thing. you vote with every dime you spend. find out what your suppliers stand for. i wish i had a site that lists the lobby groups that major businesses support and other community involvements they may have. it would help alot with responsible spending. 

C’mon you guys.
With all due respect to Kurt Vonnegut—I have really enjoyed
a couple of his novels—this is embarrassingly insubstantive commentary.  The very headline shouts how little he, and apparently
you, actually have to say about some very grave issues before us.
Maybe you ought to asking yourselves if you can do a little better, a little more often. 
DRusseth

C’mon you guys.
With all due respect to Kurt Vonnegut—I have really enjoyed
a couple of his novels—this is embarrassingly insubstantive commentary.  The very headline shouts how little he, and apparently
you, actually have to say about some very grave issues before us.
Maybe you ought to asking yourselves if you can do a little better, a little more often. 
DRusseth

It sounds to me like poor Kurt’s brain has been penetrated by Ice-9. Sad, and he was such a fine fellow once upon a time…

to be alive sometimes i have to make myself insensible ~ when i read these things, when i watch the news, i remember why i want to kill myself. and then, later, comes the realization that to do that would be giving up… psycopaths, idiots… these are the “people” who run this country, the “people” i run into everyday… and sometimes i can breathe enough to see that protest may be sufficient reason for being. but i admire anyone who can think of these things, be constantly cognizant of the world and not explode.

i love kurt vonnegut.

so presents itself a dual duty: to survive & protest in the face of something insurmountable.

reading posts like these make one feel less alone… i cannot watch network news anymore, it makes my stomach turn. the clear exploitation, the grotesquerie…

is there “evil” in the world? undoubtedly. the problem with the united states of america is nobody realizes it resides within the country’s boundraies.

i want to move to europe. and until then, i will protest… in pennance.

my issue is: why are so many people without consience or self-cognizance? and what in god’s name happened to compassion and humility???

and what can i do besides wave a picket, and perhaps someday write something decent??

the sense of futility is almost as overwhelming as the guilt i’d feel for giving up any effort…

I guess a c-student is someone who could only manage a C average in college, like George W. Bush, and go on to hold positions of authority. 

Reading most of the comments on Vonnegut’s interview reminds me of the following quotation:

Any man who is not a socialist at age 20 has no heart.
Any man who is still a socialist at age 40 has no brains.

variations of which have been variously attributed to Churchill, Bismarck, Disraeli, Clemenceau and others.

I hope for your own sakes, that most of you are under 30. Unfortunately there is no hope for the mental state of poor Kurt .

...my issue is: why are so many people without consience or self-cognizance? and what in god’s name happened to compassion and humility???…

Sometimes the greatest compassion one human being can give to another is a huge whack on the butt to set them straight again.  How many more whacks does Saddam need?  He doesn’t understand or respect compassion ... he understands strength and force. 

All you “peace is the only answer” people: Please go watch Band of Brothers or Saving Private Ryan or even The Pianist ... Please please please (please please please) ... Learn from history ... Your beloved Europeans did such a stellar job standing up to Hitler ... I don’t think the French and Germans are the best authorities on what to do with a potential madman.  Personally I would rather side with the country that saved their behinds 60 years ago.

Up yours V onnegut. With no stick you don’t get dick, with artist like you in charge we’d still be in boats infront of Plymouth Rock ringing our hands about what to do. ps thanks for ruining any chance of leaving Vietnam with any honor what-so-ever, my bro fought there with his ARVN allies who you happily abandoned for your noble, sanctimonious principles

“ting-a-ling” K.V. ... you have been a becan of gentility and common decency that has held me in your beam for almost 40 years .. and i’m in my 50’s ... “god bess you, Mr. Vonnegut!

Mr.Vonnegut sounds very interesting what are some of his books? 

God Bless Kurt Vonnegut !!! - One of very few TRUTHSAYERS on the planet! 

WONDERFUL!! 

Funny, I guess that’s how I feel, or maybe it’s just the word to say when something happens of a synchronous nature.  I had just finished re-reading Slaughterhouse Five, when this comes in.  KV refuses to wear the armor that both protects and obscures.  Good.  Most of us need our armor, or believe we do, so we wear it and gripe in the hallways and back seats of automobiles about the idiots that make the big decisions.  I don’t like pissing off anyone, although I love it.  I can’t seem to disrespect a soldier.  I know some.  They always seem to be good people and they’re willing to die for me.  Mr. Vonnegut is right.  Psychopaths have a velocity advantage over us non-psychos (I think, I feel, I am not psycopathic.) The value of a democracy is that you can shuffle more psychopaths in and out and sometimes, over time and in an algebraic way, their negatives and positives cancel out and things don’t get really horrible.  As often.

Vonnegut served his country in the U.S. military.  George W., Cheney, Gingrich, and Limbaugh all avoided service.  I see these chickenhawks and other conservatives who talk war when someone else is doing the fighting; they are nothing but cowards.

I served my country for eight years and like Vonnegut, I realize that war is a horrible thing and should not be entered into lightly.  Vonnegut nails it on the head when he calls these people assholes.  Those who would ask other people to make sacrifices that they were and are too afraid to make are assholes and will always be assholes.

As much as I admire certain of Mr. Vonnegut’s works of fiction, I do not think that his interview shows that he is himself a superior student of world affairs or that he is better qualified than the next man to give his political and philosophical opinions. It just goes to show that while an outstanding talent for fiction-writing may qualify one as an interesting, intertaining thinker, it rarely produces careful, reflective thinking on subjects of great intellectual, moral, or spiritual depth.
Mr. Vonnegut mentioned the popular notion that Bush was only a “C” student and therefore could not possibly be a good President. It makes me wonder what Mr. Vonnegut might have said about Abraham Lincoln-- a man who, with about 1 year of formal education behind him, only went on to become one of America’s greatest Presidents. 
Keep writing fiction, Mr. Vonnegut-- it is what you’re great at! 

I’d love to see a debate between Kurt and Dubya. That would settle the hash of the right-wing dimwits who’ve chimed in here. Reading some of the above comments is truly depressing. George W. Bush a leader? Please. We live in a truly frightening time right now.

re: impeachment

www.questionsquestions.net
www.unansweredquestions.org
www.pi911.org
www.fromthewilderness.com
www.globalresearch.ca
www.truthout.org
www.onlinejournal.org
www.unknownnews.net
www.dieoff.org

I think it is intriguing that most of the comments agreeing with the article are well reasoned, eloquent and intelligent, while most of the comments disagreeing with the article sound reactionary, aggressive and uninformed.  I wonder what that’s telling us . . . 

Sorry, but is there any earthly reason WHY I or anyone else should care about what Kurt Vonnegut thinks about a war on Iraq or Bush and his administration? 

As someone who cut his teeth on the post-modernist cynicism of Kurt and Co., may I return the compliment and say that I wish the bodysnatchers had gotten him and his ilk, and felt that often they had?

What was dumb, stupid, pointless and morally reprehensible during the Viet Nam war era was Kurt, Jane, Joan and all of the Leftists that had no concept of anything except Up the Establishment.  It drove all that they said and did and still does today.  We can think Kurt V and Co. for a society devoid of courtesy and humanity, decency and respect for (wait for it) law, traditions, family unity, etc. etc.  And just to dispel the myth he contiues to perpetuate- the whole of society was not against the Viet Nam War.  Most Americans supported the war until a) the violent demonstrations of the Left; b) the clear indication from the then American presidents- Johnson and Nixon that we were not fighting to win, and c) the balance of American society was disrupted and headed to the toilet courtesy of the perverse values of Kurt and Co.  These are the same people that loved Communism and thought it was just misunderstood.  They wer greviously wrong, most people knew it, and that’s what allowed Reagan and Co. to decimate it.  We owe no thanks or respect to Kurt Vonnegut or his compadres in post-modernism. 

“it is intriguing that most of the comments agreeing with the article are well reasoned, eloquent and intelligent, while most of the comments disagreeing with the article sound reactionary, aggressive and uninformed. I wonder what that’s telling us . .  “It tells us that not one of these right-wing bozoids can explain to himself or to anyone else what he is getting out of the Busheviks.  Apart from misguided patriotism, stupid nationalism, rascism and fascism, what has Bush done for the people of this country? If you’re not an upper crust elite white collar criminal what the hell are you getting?  I think we would all like to know, especially those of us who are unemployed and have lost our savings!

What do you want Bush to do? Further tax the worker to redistribute more of his income to the welfare class or the denizens who inhabit the federal bureaucracy? I can’t understand the liberal mentality. No matter how much the government taxes them, they want to be taxed additionally. What Bush needs to do is study the property tax system in NH to learn how to really screw the middle-class. 

Joe, I’m a liberal but it’s ridiculous that you identify me as wanting to be taxed more. I’m a lower income wage earner.  Also, I grew up in west Texas and east Louisiana near the state line from a long heritage, 400 hundred years long of ancestors, from this part of the country.  Bush isn’t about anything here.  Nobody from here would react to Saddam Hussein as Bush has.  Those from here would consider Saddam Hussein like a rattlesnake.  In that case, you’re careful out in the Piney Woods here and know rattlesnakes are out there.  If you see one, you note it but let it on its way.  It and you also know you could quickly dispatch it if necessary.  Those who look for rattlesnakes do so for money--like Bush.  Before Bush involved us with tangling with a rattlesnake, Saddam Hussein was only interested in ex-Iraqis--not us.  He wasn’t concerned about attacking America.  Now he is for his own self-preservation.  Bush got us into this.  He should have left Hussein alone.  Saddam Hussein has a “secret weapons program”?  What about our secret weapons program?  This is all about a small country creating a small and cheap mass destruction weapons program equaling our massive and expensive massive weapons program.  The military industrial complex here wont let that happen. 

“Literature is by definition opinionated.”

I thought this one of the most well-thought out lines of the interview. Literature is opinionated by definition because we are opinionated. Knowing this, I enjoyed the article but was freaked out by some of the worshipful posts.

I like Mr. Vonnegut’s work because it seems to say ‘Question Everything!’ A very healthy idea in all cases.

It does however sadden me to see him resort to various forms of name calling to make his points.

I was never one to believe the louder SOB was the right one.

Thanks for some great laughs, and a few thoughts.

Steve, I know that Bush was born in New Haven and educated at Andover, Yale and Harvard. If the South wants to consider him one of their own, then that’s its decision. I also know that Bush is the front man for the GOP establishment. I certainly hope that he isn’t making the important decisions.  Refering to Bush is really refering to the people behind him as far as I am concerned. Whether Iraq should be allowed to develop WMDs is entirely another matter. Last time that they approached a nuclear capability, Israel took it out. That isn’t politically expedient in today’s world.  I do believe we have to step up and make the difficult decisions when it becomes necessary. Even Khaddafi believes that Saddam is insane.

Kurt Vonnegut, once again, makes me happy that I learned to read.  thanks Kurt

Seems KV still appeals to the ravers and bad writers.  Maybe not C students, but sophmores nonetheless.  Pathetic old man. 

There is always going to people described above with “PP” as the wuthor calss it. So what do we do about it. The reason that things have escalated to such a degree is because no one has done anything about it. Too many people just comment on the present situation, hoping that some other group will take up the responsibility of changing things. I admit that it would be a formidable task to persuade the country not to destroy the rest of the world, but wouldn’t you rather fight that system rather than watch from your lazy boy as the mushroom cloud is broadcast via television. I am in no way an expert on these things, but I can still follow what my heart says is wrong and how my instincts say survive no matter what. Even though it may do no good, we must at least try to fight our fate. 

Hey Si from UK ..careful your ignorance and bias is showing

Super Power
Axis of evil is the catch phrase,
Like a comic book hero he says,
We need to stomp out all of the bad,
And stomp we did with all we had.

A regime change is next in line.
Imperialism, yours is mine.
Eightteen is all that you need to be.
The worlds police we are can’t you see.

We helped you in war, gave you power.
Now this will be your final hour.
Friends of ours when it’s advantageous.
Foes of ours now you are dangerous.

We shall go it alone if we need.
To plant our imperialist seed.
To kill and die for what we don’t know.
Terror talk is the matinee show.

Can’t we see down this bottomless well,
We created our own world our hell.
Unwanted there we will continue to go.
The blanket of terror we will rip and sew.
Bobby Robinette
Copyright ©2003 Bobby Elden Robinette

I’ve heard wild rumors that Mr. Vonnegut is on a Nissan commercial spot. Could this be true?!? 

I have to say that Bush was only a C-student in the sense that his teachers knew they would c him in power later on.  Seriously though, his state of the union speech, proposed an unfounded alliance between dumbass cave dwelling religious fundamentalists and a known murderer of muslims.  Are we supposed to believe this sh@#?  It’s so completely nonsensical, it pushes intelligent humanists up against a wall.  If only Bill Hicks were alive to hear this, it would probably kill him.

I’M A DISABLED VETERAN AND A CAREER MEDIC. THE “PRESIDENT” OF THE UNITED STATES IS A DESERTER. HE DIDN’T HAVE THE INTESTINAL FORTITUDE TO FINISH HIS OBLIGATION BUT POINTS YOUNG MEN AND WOMEN IN WARS’ WAKE. KURT NEEDS TO POINT OUT THAT THE FORTUNATE SON IS A COWARD AS WELL AS BEING AN ASSHOLE

I’M A DISABLED VETERAN AND A CAREER MEDIC. THE “PRESIDENT” OF THE UNITED STATES IS A DESERTER. HE DIDN’T HAVE THE INTESTINAL FORTITUDE TO FINISH HIS OBLIGATION BUT POINTS YOUNG MEN AND WOMEN IN WARS’ WAKE. KURT NEEDS TO POINT OUT THAT THE FORTUNATE SON IS A COWARD AS WELL AS BEING AN ASSHOLE

Thank you, Mr. Vonnegut, for explaining about PP’s.  When I was reading about DICK Cheney during the campaign, I was, and still am, appalled that a Congressperson, or anyone, would vote against the Head Start Program… as if there is any valid argument against providing a hot breakfast for a child!  But, when DICK was in Congress, he voted against funding for Head Start.  Of course, as a PP, this made perfect sense to him.  I would ask other people if they knew about this, or could think of ANY reason why a country this rich should not care for its children… but I would usually just get a blank stare from whomever I was asking.  A democracy is only as good and kind and caring as the people it serves, and that’s the sad truth.  What we need to do is get out from behind our computer screens, get rid of this person in D.C. who was forced upon us by a very partial Supreme Court, and quit tuning into that insane reality TV programming, which encourages nothing but voyeurism and greed.  Everybody pick up a Kurt Vonnegut novel and read.
Thanks for this opportunity,
BR, Central Texas

BR from Central Texas wrote asked:

if there was ANY reason why a country this rich should not care for its children..

Well BR, tell me what are parents for? Is it my responsibility to take care of someone else’s kids. I would argue NO, unless they are truly unable to care for themselves.

Or if you feel so strongly about it, why don’t you donate your own time any money to do so, instead of trying to force others to support your lazyness and sense of entitlement?

Remember Good People: the only thing a CONSERVATIVE CONSERVES is THOUGHT.

Everything else they simply feel they’re entitled to rape and pillage...and then blame Bill and Hilary Clinton.

They are the Barbarian Hordes and We, The People need to stop them! They are the ones who are UnAmerican!

One Roman Empire was enough.

2

for more debate on this topic there is a yahoogroup (isn’t there always?):

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/woid/join

at least it’s slightly more on topic of the “war effort”, trying to intelligently debunk the hyperbole of the media. enjoy!

<<They are the Barbarian Hordes and We, The People need to stop them! They are the ones who are UnAmerican!
One Roman Empire was enough. >>

Hoorah!!  Long live the Roman Empire!  Long live Caesar!

Oh wait ... silly me ...  that’s right ... the USA always rebuilds the countries it liberates.  Last time I checked, even though we had total control of the oil fields after Desert Storm, we gave them back ... hmm ... I thought the battle cry was “War for Oil” in 1990?  Oh well ... but at least we got Japan!!!  Oh wait ... even though we totally conquered the Japanese, we rebuilt and gave their country back ... hmmm ... well there is always Germany ... good thing we kept a piece of that ... oh wait we helped rebuild and give that back too ... I think the Roman Empire has us beat ... because, honestly, if conquest is our goal, we are not very good at it. 

Peace!

A beautiful piece of introspective comment.... thankyou!

The other day Nelson Mandela said, “He (President Bush) can’t think properly.” I heartily concur.
Even I can see from this distance that “W” is intellectually challenged.  Small wonder the Germans are suspicious..... they’ve been there and done that!

The Emporer has no clothes!

You’re not alone.  The same beasts are stirring in Australia.

Love from downunder… Chris.

South Korea might have something to say about what we do in North Korea. The threat of force in North Korea would likely produce uncontrollable escalation and heightened tensions while in Iraq the threat of force, the reality of which was amply demonstrated 10 years ago, has a much clearer use as a bargaining tool and as a lever for strong armed diplomacy.

I guess if someone steals an election and is controlled by corrupt companies who only care about power and money and oil, who can only be motivated by what is best for a few elite Americans who are so blinded by their own greed and stupidity that we will soon all be in lock step with their thinking or banished to live in Massachusetts, then we are in big trouble.

My take is that we are trying to fight a war that was started here and has landed us first in Afghanistan and now in Iraq. We have a large hammer called the United States Military not only on the border of Iraq but also on the border of Saudi Arabia and Syria. Now this gives us a great deal of leverage in our war on terrorism which is really a war on Islamic extremists (not North Korea) by placing our power near the center of our enemies. If I was playing Risk this might be considered a good move even by a C-student.

Now I have to admit to liking George and his Dad and his wife and if I believed he was a Nazi and an indifferent murdering thug looking to help his rich cronies Iíd be bitching and moaning like so many of you Bush haters. I know in my heart your wrong and that your over worked IQís and left leaning sentimentalities are skewing your whole take on this situation.

I work for the Department of Corrections. The other day, my partner’s son told me that his company was slotted to go to Kuwait. I found myself speechless. Not because of the impending war with Ir