Kurt Vonnegut vs. the !&#*!@

Outstanding interview. Vonnegut has been one of my favorite authors since I was 13 or so.
America is being whored out by it’s “leaders” in pursuit of probably the most idiotic goal there can be, ever higher profit.  Every American needs to wake up and do something about it. 

I just stayed up all night reading Michael Moore’s “Stupid White Men” and I think every single person out there needs to read this book.  The man had to get his book published in UK cuz the US publisher was afraid to do it after Sept. 11. That’s a pretty sorry state for America to be in.  Similarly, while having read as many articles as possible in the papers about our current situation and having a frustrated helpless feeling of dread concerning our country, I had to leave America to get proper dissenting media about the Bush “Junta.’ Also, the constant fire of criticism from Germans and other “foreigners” has tempered my views and those of my friends and has given us a strength and clarty as to what this war is really about. Let me tell you, people are the same all over and not a single one deserves to die for US oil. My friend from Morrocco was afraid to tell us his name was Osama.  He is a muslim, one of the friendliest folks I’ve ever met, and a testament against fundamentalists be they Muslims or Falwells.  I could write pages but I will shut up now. ---Matt

Please send me more stories/ interviews like this

I must say that the US version of “democracy” must be a total failure when it makes it possible for an indecent skull and bones Yale brat, surrounded by old Reagancriminals, to hijack the white house and get away with it! I can not understand how people can accept it. Now he is planning to nuke Irak. I love you american people. You are so nice an quiet. But the rest of the world think the Bushgang are maniacs. Throw them out for heavens sake! If you let big business continue to buy your “democracy” then you always end up with undecent people- prostitutes- ruling your country. And please- make voting compulsory. Get yourself some real democracy

Nils of Sweden, you have to understand that politicians and businessmen consider democracy to be a hindrance and a burden to capitalism and “free” trade and so democracy will never be part of America. It just doen’t work here.  People want a leader like Bush who will make all the decisions for them and this makes life much easier for us. We like to be told what to do and when to do it because things just get all muddled up when we have to think for ouselves. We put our faith and trust in politicians and corporations whom we know have the best interests of the country at heart so you see, democracy just gets in the way of the OWO which Sweden and the rest of Europe will soon be a part of.  But it is not that bad-don’t feel sorry for us. We get along fine. We just watch TV news and know in our hearts that everything is lovely, just like it has always been. 

Mr. Vonnnegut, you rock. I’ve tried to write something else here, but I summed it all up with my first sentence. I reiterate: Mr. Vonnegut, you rock.
~Liz

It is comforting to see that Mr. V is still as brilliant as always and that there are some U.S. citizens who see what the rest of us seem to see more easily. I only hope more will heed voices like his!

fantastic article, but I have to say that the spelling and grammar errors of the rabid right-wing dittoheads give the article an entertainment run-for-its-money!

Thank you Brian Finigan for informing me of OWO that is going to overtake Europe and the rest. The first O ? What does it stand for? I wonder if the German philosopher Peter Sloterdijk had Kurt V in mind when he writes about Diogenes : “his life is caracterised of the humoristic selfconciousness that can be found only in sovereign spirits”. Kurt and Diogenes can teach us that we should never show respect to power. So mr. Alexander the great and PP Bush et al. Get out of my way. You stand in the way of the sun.

Nils, I’m glad you understand the sarcasm in my letter. The first “O” stands for the word “One”. But I am confident that the One World Order will not overtake Europe.  The people of Europe understand and appreciate democracy and freedom much better than the average American and without this freedom there would have been no Peter Sloterdijk, Kurt V, Shakespeare, Duke Ellington, Louis Armstrong, Charlie Parker or even Mickey Mouse. 

“The paralyzed neurotic is the symbol of the thwarting power of civilization.” - Henry Miller in The Cosmological Eye

In attempting to best define “apathy” for a friend, I envisioned someone taking a nap on train tracks because they don’t expect the train for another half hour.  The majority of Americans are asleep on the tracks… and the train might very well be early.

Dear Brian and Nils:

To Nils, it seems everyone who disagrees with you is a prostitute and a criminal and indecent. What made you such a genius to make this assessment of our country. Perhaps you are ill informed or simply incapable of seeing any other view of the world but your own.  Our democracy which for your information is a republic is doing find whether everyone votes or not. We have a bill of rights (unlike any European country) that guarantees all of us our freedom though some of these freedoms have been seriously eroded by fundamentalist Islamic fascists (who would gladly kill you simply because your not one of them).

Many Americans feel something should be done about this threat to our friends and families and I for one not only eye witnessed the attack but lost several friends and saw many fall to their unjust death. Now you may think this was caused by our countries imperialistic, capitalistic ways but I canít see any justification for this action and our resolve to destroy the enemy that did this has got out country very fired up. This did not happen in Sweden, we are not some homogenized, irrelevant country drinking our way through the winter. We are a world power and sometimes have to act to defend our interests. We are in a time of action, we are willing to risk the dogs of war to challenge any and all people and powers that mean us harm, we have a President that is single mindedly leading in this direction. Yes there is tremendous risk, but there is greater risk in waiting to see what happens next, we canít afford circumspection and hand wringing at this point in our history.

Brian, we are a divided nation and are hardly being led by the nose by this administration.

PS anyone who wants to meet in Central Park and try telling me the 9/11 attack was our fault please leave a note so I can personally ram that opinion down your throat

When one of our respected elders speaks out on such a subject as war we should listen carefully.  In a country in a world where respect for contemplative, intelligent thoughts of reason has been nearly lost, we need to hear the voices of those who see beyond the rubbish.  If we do not appreciate these gifts, then we must agree to accept whatever history has in store for us without protest. 

Does anybody out there know Bush’s e-mail address? (assuming he CAN read)

Right on K.V.,
at least somebody can still tell it like it is.

What will it take to wake up the masses?  How far will we let this madness go?

if you liked this article, you must
download this free mp3
www.daveyd.com/paristrack.mp3

and pass it along to everyone you know.  This song speaks straight up like K.V.- Bush is a fraud, why can’t americans see it? 

I am currently touring with my Polka Orchestra and proclaim peace to all my fans. I propose we simply build a great defense system.  Disarm unilaterally and instead of researching offensive weapons research nuclear power and space travel. It is time.  Sto Lat! 

Roger,

Listen:

<< it seems everyone who disagrees with you is a prostitute and a criminal and indecent.>>

Well, Roger, I suppose those labels are less libelous than being labeled ‘UnAmerican’ or ‘5th Column’ or ‘Traitor’ or the ‘Enemy’ as your reactionary, useful idiot camp like to projectile vomit outward concerning our side of things after injecting their dose of Mike Savage (Weiner is his real name) or ‘bastion of credibility’ Ann Coulter.

<<What made you such a genius to make this assessment of our country.>>

It takes no genius to see where our overly consumeristic, profits over people, twitch blip sped culture is leading us. Sure, we live in a free country, but look how ignorant the average American is concerning history and geography and politics and...just about anything that doesn’t involve consuming some sort of product. (myself included.)

<<Perhaps you are ill informed or simply incapable of seeing any other view of the world but your own.>>

You are a hypocrite, Roger, but don’t worry, we all are. I’m a hypocrite too. How far reaching is your hypocrisy? 

<< Our democracy which for your information is a republic is doing find whether everyone votes or not.>>

Now here, Roger, we must point out that you are indeed, a moron. Nice Freudian typo by the way, I think you’re right...we are doing ‘find’ and we certainly haven’t ‘found it yet’ and if any more people stop voting here within this free (yet so blind and apathetic) country, er, republic on which it stands, I believe we’ll have a dictatorship to contend with. Oh shit, that’s right, that’s ALREADY HAPPENED.

still working on Roger…

<<We have a bill of rights (unlike any European country) that guarantees all of us our freedom though some of these freedoms have been seriously eroded by fundamentalist Islamic fascists (who would gladly kill you simply because your not one of them). >>

Right, I get it, so we were free, but not anymore, because these Islamic fascists killed us and still want to kill us, so, because of that, we better take away all of our freedoms and stay REACTIONARY and FULL OF FEAR then we’ll have...what are we fighting for again?

<<Many Americans feel something should be done about this threat to our friends and families and I for one not only eye witnessed the attack but lost several friends and saw many fall to their unjust death.>>

Most Americans KNOW SOMETHING HAS BEEN DONE YOU JACKASS! We kicked the shit out of the Taliban and the bastards they harbored in Afghanistan!! ... remember? When the war was about AL? Al? What are they called again? Right. Remember, Roger? We’ve been on high alert ever since! Federal agents around the world are working a dragnet, hauling in these extremists right and left! But this is not a war on the Arab world...at least it’s not supposed to be, it shouldn’t be, not morally anyway. We need more ALLIES, not ENEMIES to fight a war on terrorism. What do you think dropping 70 tons of radioactive munitions upon the country of Iraq will honestly do for the War on Terrorism and all of our safety? Errrr, Roger. The MAJORITY OF THE WORLD is against this type of action to contain Saddam and his bullshit. We have U.N. Inspectors crawling all over his country...make those numbers increase tenfold, add military backup, with U2 Spy Planes + lift the food sanctions on his people and you’ve got one demoralized, irrelevant tyrant...and, just as they did in the 90’s, the WMDs get found and dismantled. He’d probably eventually commit suicide...or, if not, after the war kettles finally toned down, we could establish a commando raid and depose of the bastard. Roger, do you have any idea how much cheaper this solution would be? Do you have any idea how much an action such as this could begin at least to turn back the tide of Anti-Americanism fervent and spreading around the world?

working with Roger…

...And yes, of course it’s uptopian because the Chickenhawks want global domination, and the constant, unstoppable need for our consumeristic machine to run on oil and only oil and forever oil until we’ve sucked up every possible last remnant of decomposed dinosaur out of the ground! So, and but and therefore, wars...yes, wars, Roger, because North Korea and Yemen’s next, Syria...endless fucking wars, Roger. And we’re supposed to pay for it. So lets cut the taxes and get back to work, slave and shut up and stop asking questions, this here’s an Empire. And I want you to think about this, Roger, I want you to know and be aware of the fact that all of Bush’s cabinet, except for Powell, dodged out of serving their country. Look it up, it’s fact. They are Chickenhawks, Roger. W was a fucking CHEERLEADER in college! So was Trent Lott! Are these guys tough? And because they are Chickenhawks, they therefore, do not understand the graveness of war and what war means and how many of our servicepeople as well as innocent people will die because of their chickenhawk game. (the NAVY’s currently hiring MORTICIANS...$6,000 signing bonus! no lie, go to www.hotjobs.com and look it up) And Roger, I am truly sorry that you lost people close to you in the WTC that horrific day. The whole country lost that day and I was among the majority who REACTED at first: ‘NUKE THOSE BASTARDS!’ I was screaming, and ranting and hollering and blaming and....NOT THINKING ABOUT THE BIGGEST POSSIBLE PICTURE. We all were feeling it and we all still feel it but we must do the right thing and weigh all variables, and this, my tough guy friend, is not ‘hand wringing’ it is just a better, more sustainable way. Barbarism won’t save our civilization. 

making friends with Roger…

<<Now you may think this was caused by our countries imperialistic, capitalistic ways but I canít see any justification for this action and our resolve to destroy the enemy that did this has got out country very fired up. This did not happen in Sweden, we are not some homogenized, irrelevant country drinking our way through the winter. We are a world power and sometimes have to act to defend our interests. We are in a time of action, we are willing to risk the dogs of war to challenge any and all people and powers that mean us harm, we have a President that is single mindedly leading in this direction. Yes there is tremendous risk, but there is greater risk in waiting to see what happens next, we canít afford circumspection and hand wringing at this point in our history. >>

Your side acts so entitled to everything...my big ass truck, my big ass ham, my big ass bitch, my big ass. You don’t think your actions and your depleting resource cravings have rippling effects? Your crowd wouldn’t have lasted a week during WWII when the nation was asked to conserve their resources for the War effort. And what’s wrong with Sweden? They make Volvos, one of the finest, safest automobiles on the road...oh wait, LIBERALS drive those and liberals are terrorists, they’re the 5th column, we’ve got to go to war with them because I want my $.60/gallon gas NOW. Kill the brown people, take their oil. Fuck you, I’m an American, get the fuck out of my way, my way or the highway, ‘you’re either with us or against us...’ Why would anyone be pissed off at us?

<<PS anyone who wants to meet in Central Park and try telling me the 9/11 attack was our fault please leave a note so I can personally ram that opinion down your throat>>

Well, Roger, I’d love to meet you in Central Park, but I don’t have a job, and therefore can’t afford the plane ticket. But if I could be there, I’d use my best defenses to block any punches you threw at me, I’d work on getting you to calm down, and we’d have a seat on a Central Park bench where the two of us could discuss what the best foreign policy and plan of action shall be for the United States of America, the greatest country in the world...currently in need of its most valuable resource, its own people...to take back their government and be the changes they all wish to see in the world.

Thank you so much for this Interview. Kurt Vonnegut has been a literary favorite and spiritual anker for me for so many years now, and it is just a wonderful consolation to read his views on the present situation.
Greetings from Berlin,

Helmut Heimann

Bill and Al had EIGHT years to set up Utopia.  What did they accomplish?

The intolerance of the left makes me shudder.

In a New world, Saddam and Osama would kill everyone that didn’t fall into line.  Freedom would be gone.

Get a clue.

Kurt Vonnegut was right on except for one thing:  his generalization of Christians as white supremacists. While there might be white supremacists in the Bush administration, most Christians I know love all races, and are praying for peace! Mr. Vonnegut would do well to remember that Christians tend to be like his dearly departed friend, Andre Dubus--a devout Catholic, compassionate human being, and himself a brilliant writer. In the meantime, I’ll keep praying for peace, and for Mr. Vonnegut, who truly is a national treasure.

now go have your war,
the juggernaut against the hole-in-the-ground
and when you come home,
watch your backs

because your brother will hate you

Thank you, Mr. Vonnegut.
For forty years I have come to
expect nothing less than sparkling brilience from you, and you have never once disappointed.

As for the c-*’s,--"Wuffo I wanna read no “Tale of Two Cities,” huh?
Wuffo?”

The level of misinterpretation of Vonnegut’s statement about “white supremacists” and “christians” is astounding. The man was criticizing
White Supremacists standing behind a guise of Christianity and perverting Christian Ideals to serve their own purposes. He wasn’t lumping racist pigs and Christians into the same category - hence the use of the quotations around the word “christians” - Its amazing how many people were not only completely incabable of seeing this, but wasted their own time whining about parallel that wasn’t even drawn in the first place. Here’s an example of what I mean by “White Supremacisits” using Christianity to suit their own interests - About three weeks ago, “president” Bush declared a “National Sanctity of Life Day” to juxtapose the anniversary of Row V. Wade...in the same week he declared that Irag would meet with “DEVASTATING CONSEQUENCES” if they chose to continue to deceive.....hmmm..."Sanctity of Life” ...."Devastating Consequences”
Certainly sounds like someone who has a clear idea about who’s lives are sacred and who’s aren’t, wouldn’t ya say?

I hope the entire world explodes.
Man is a failed species.
Sleep tight everyone.

Thanks ‘ITT’ for this rewarding interview! 

Nice punch, Kurt! 
You’ve thrown a great left hook at the powers-that-be for all of us, Mr. Vonnegut.

This is dedicated to the great Mr. V.

Ballad of Three Very Thin Men

you walk into the room and your chin drops to the ground
Johnny’s with Lateesha and Frankie’s with Yvonne
that’s Interracial Dating! Things are bein’ passed around!
you search your pockets for your cell phone
you’re gonna call Operation Tips and then your Senator
aren’t you, Bob Jones

you walk into the pressroom grin and hairpiece pasted on
you step up to the microphone and say is this on
you recite your apology but we all know it’s a con
your career, it’s clear, has been shot
racism is acceptable but Crowin about it ain’t
slap on the wrist, Mr. Lott

you’re in the Skull and Crossbones, you’ve done cocaine and Yale
you got an oil company and a baseball team on your daddy’s shirttail
you been been governor of Texas you’ve fried people in jail
it’s always been very dangerous to snub ya
and now you think you’re the most powerful person in the world
don’t you, Mr. Dubya

the weapons makers oil polluters and their corporations
ran your campaign with millions in donations
and the Supreme Court stole you the election
and now you’re doin’ it to ministers and kings
but everyone knows who’s pulling the strings
that give you that chickenhawk Get Saddam erection

you smirk into the cameras as you say again It’s Either - Or!
you intone the fateful words that begin the Last World War
This has all been set up by forces much bigger than you many years before
all it needed was one final little push
and you’re playin’ your part but you don’t have a clue the Horror you’re unleashing
do you, Mr. Bush.

Vintage Vonnegut!  Multiply him by a billion or so and humanity may stand a decent chance.  Rave On Rave On Kurt Vonnegut.

I could help make a bigger banana creme pie than that!
Thank you Mr. Vonnegut for taking the time to tell us in your memorable voice what you think about all this nonsense.

Jeez Mista Jones ... thanks .. that has to be one of the worst poems I have ever read! 

I quote without permission from Australia’s beloved cartoonist/philosopher, LEUNIG (I hope he’ll forgive me).

OATH OF THE DAY - FOR THE COALITION OF THE WILLING WARMONGERS

We are the coalition of the willing warmongers.
We are powerful males.
We have war erections and brightly coloured bottoms like baboons.
We are hideous.
We stand here demanding War.

We stand here obssessed with power.
Our lives have been dedicated to the pursuit of power.
Our vision has been shaped by this lifelong obssession.
Some say the glass is half empty,
We say the glass is half full of poison.

We stand here on your doorstep.
We are insurance salesmen with one foot in the door.
We are selling you a policy to cover you against evil.
We are selling war.
We stand here and stand here.
We will not go away.
We have erections.

We are the willing warmongers.
We are willing to declare war.
We are willing for others to do the fighting, the killing, the dying.
We are the good guys.
We have erections and brightly coloured bottoms.
We are unbelievably hideous.

Love from Australia

#
# Change Post Status
Call Now

The Bush White House has an “opinion” line for you to call. So call and
give your opinion of the proposed war in Iraq. The line only accepts calls
from 9-5 EST., Monday through Friday.

Just call the White House at 202-456-1111. A machine will detain you for
only a moment and then a pleasant live operator will thank you for saying “I
oppose” or “I approve.” It will only take minutes.

Note that the weekends are closed for calls. The president has said that
he wants to know what the American people are thinking. Let him know. Time
is running out.

Tell them what you think: 1 PHONE CALL EQUALS 10-20 PEOPLE WHO DIDN’T CALL.

PLEASE PASS ON TO FRIENDS

You can also call your senators and representatives!! 202-225-3121

A “ C student from Yale”?
It’s more like a D-E student.

Thanks once again, Mr. Vonnegut, for putting so many things into perspective. Having enjoyed your writing and intereviews since the 1970s, it is inspiring to see that you still have not lost the ability to say so much in so few words.

as a poet, i can’t help but be outraged at those whom mr vonnegut labels “pp’s and “c” students” this country has gone the way of nazi germany or better yet, imperial rome, with some new and crucial quirks, the homeland security and patriot acts are scary...like the sticker says..."i love my country but fear my govt” god damn king georgie!!

Right on.
Middle Easterners are the new “negroes” of today. Like the communists and hippies were in the 60’s.
The conservative, white, protestant “good” people now have a new devil to misunderstand, fear, and pass insane laws to protect themselves from.
God save us from that devil George Sr. He couldn’t stand losing in ‘92 so he’s planned this coup all along. And thank you K.V.

This is my old friend and fraternity brother, Kurt, at his inimitable best.  If there were a few millions like him, the Asssholes might have to pay attention.  Too much to hope for, I’m afraid.  Keep it up, Kurt.

<<Middle Easterners are the new “negroes” of today ...[t]he Conservative, white, protestant “good” people now have a new devil to misunderstand, fear, and pass insane laws to protect themselves from. >>

I can see that I just have a HUGE task of enlightenment ahead ... what bizarre world do you guys live in?

Um, I don’t see too many Radical Lutheran Norwegian Terrorist Groups or Radical Finnish Terrorist Groups ... (believe it or not). I know the politically correct thing these days is to blame white males for everything ... mostly because the tolerant, diversity loving left has deemed it OK to trash white males.  Question?  Who is trying to attact us?  Who has attacked us? Answer:  Radical Middle Eastern Muslim Men .. PERIOD!  You can ignore the facts and the truth all you want in the weird politically correct fantasy world you live in .. but FACTS are FACTS.  When the Radical Methodist Swedes start attacking America I will write back and let you know how right you were ... jeez ... use your BRAINS people ... Political Correct thought is destroying the brain cells of modern America ...

Peace

Well, Nathan, you like it or not. The majority of hate crimes in this country have been commited by, uh...white anglo-saxon males, which, by the way, I didn’t say white males. And I didn’t mention any particular religion, just a group. Feeling guilty about something?
What has Iraq does to us. Nothing. So why are we giving them reason for jihad?
You probably shouldn’t read columns like this because it just stirs up reactions that could be considered siding with Bush. So keep your smug opinions to yourself.

When the horror started to congeal and I was struck by the absence of a voice we could all trust I railed at my friend- “Where’s Kurt Vonnegut, for Christs’ sake?’’
Well, here he is, and how sweet it is to hear him.!

I hope everyone knows about the February 15 marches around the world - 10 million people raising their voices for peace and sanity.  For more details visit http://www.unitedforpeace.org

Wow.
Any other C-students out there offended by Mister I’m-A-Writer-So-I’m-Smarter-Than-The-Average-Person?
Who pooped in the old guy’s breakfast cereal?

It seems that Kurt Vonnegut and Ronald Reagan finally have something in common - dementia.

At last, a voice of reason and dissent.......

<<What has Iraq does to us. Nothing. So why are we giving them reason for jihad?>>

Fact:  Iraq aggressively attacked a sovereign nation (Kuwait).
Fact: The United States fought and defeated the aggressors (Iraq)
Fact: Saddam agreed to a terms of surrender in order to stop the war which could have next removed Him from power.
Fact: Saddam has repeatedly broken the terms of surrender over the past 10+ years
Fact: Under that situation the USA has the complete moral authority to finish what was begun 10 years ago.

If in 1947 Germany began rebuilding their military do you think we would have “engaged them in talk” or do you think we would have bombed the you know what out of them?  Think people!
THINK!!

Oh and by the way, I thought the idea of Radical Methodist Swedish Terrorists would make my point through humor .. oh well .. the point ONE MORE TIME ... is that angry white males are not launching airplanes into US buildings ... it is Radical Middle Eastern Muslim Men ... sorry ...

Nathan, you’re comparing two different things.
Iraq hasn’t done anything to the US, by your statements alone. The reason the middle East is angry with us, okay I can admit there’s anger, and for good reason: Israel has violated 19 UN security council resolutions involving land and holdings against Pallestine. And we back them regardless, which shows bias against the Arab world. We put Saddam in power, Georgie Sr. funded the bin Laden family, blah, blah, it’s worse than Noriega. Yet Iraq has done nothing to us. As long as you’re comparing two different things, how about launching a pre-emptive strike on Pakistan? Or India? Both have UN security council violations (UN1172), see link, involving making nukes. I’m not talking about staying out of things like before WWI, I’m just saying we’re not blind sheep like we were back before the days of multiple netwark news and the internet. And this presidency treats people as though they were still stuck in 1960. Everybody sees through this BS administartion, the military hawks and corporate jerks he has in his cabinet. Why not you? And, I am sorry if I said anything offensive. I don’t go completly along with the PC movement. Sometimes I think people are just too sensitive.

http://www.vicpeace.org/fact-sheets/FactSheet6vpn.pdf

Nope not offended at all! World leaders should be a grade above. Why would you want mediocre leaders when you could have grade A?

a C stident is a student that gets grades of c average Like me!

<<Israel has violated 19 UN security council resolutions involving land and holdings against Pallestine. And we back them regardless, which shows bias against the Arab world.>>

Don’t even know where to begin ... this conflict has a HUGE history and even though I feel Israel is in the right (Remember 1967 when the Arab world attempted to “drive Israel into the sea”?  Little Israel fought back ... won ... and in the process gained territory ... it is not occupied land .. it is CONQUERED land ... the spoils of a war the arab world started ... the arabs rolled the dice and lost ... too bad ...) But that being said, it is a complex, terrible situation that looks as if it will never be resolved ... personally I am glad the US backs Israel because they truly are our ONLY allies in that entire region and I am glad our two countries have such a stong bond.  Also, apology accepted.  I am not here to make enemies but to engage in a real discussion about the issues at hand ... to provide a different prospective from the liberal rally cries of “No War” ... to show that this administration may actually be doing the right thing ... that they simply should not be dismissed just because they are Republicans ... I am running out of time and will respond to your other points later.

Peace

My great grandfather was a radical methodist Swedish preacher and almost got himself stoned to death by angry fishermen on the west coast of Sweden trying to preach the good word to them. Of this he tells, with almost-disappointment at his survival, in a booklet he wrote from his adventures. It would not be unfair to call him and his many collegues in the forceful christian rejuvenation movement of the late 1800’s Sweden “fundamentalists”, though I am fairly certain they never considered terrorist actions. What they would have done, had they had absolute military power at their disposal, is an interesting question and also a slightly frightening one.

Much more frightening by far, however, is listening to your modern christian ayatollah in Washington and his fundamentalist brothers and sisters, lecturing the world on the only righteous kind of “liberty” and promising their gifts of smart bombs and missiles to all humanity at their own discretion and judgement.

The Problem with Government:  Too much power.  It often attracts the worst of any society, and corrupts them ten fold.  The average person just wants the perfect happy little world and will therfore turn a blind eye to truth about the ruling power

what a waste of paper.
why would anyone want to read about a bitter old man mad at the world.
lousy story.

kurt vonnegut - one of the reasons we still love america

Steffan, our “christian ayatollah”, aka, “The Right Rev."Bush has proclaimed himself to be the head of the chrisitian religion in the US and in his divine wisdom and knowledge, is interpretting the word of god and the teachings of jesus in a way we were too ignorant to understand before. But as god’s “favored” nation we have the god-given right to bring the rest of the world to its knees and bow down to american nationalistic moral supremacy which is an idea whose time has come and which I’m sure can be found somewhere in the bible by one of the ayatollah’s devoted followers who worship at his feet.  These followers are known as ‘christians’ and they are many!

<<But as god’s “favored” nation we have the god-given right to bring the rest of the world to its knees and bow down to american nationalistic moral supremacy which is an idea whose time has come and which I’m sure can be found somewhere in the bible by one of the ayatollah’s devoted followers who worship at his feet. These followers are known as ‘christians’ and they are many!>>

Y a w n ....

What can I say?  “I just had to laugh like hell” Thank you Mr. Vonnegut, for all your words and still being willing to put it out there.

I love how liberals are always preaching about “acceptance” “tolerance” and “diversity” But if the run into a group of people THEY don’t like ... watch out ... they’ll trash, insult, and show absolutely NO tolerance for those diverse views, with a viciousness I have never seen from any conservative.

Peace

I love how liberals are always preaching about “acceptance” “tolerance” and “diversity” But if they run into a group of people THEY don’t like ... watch out ... they’ll trash, insult, and show absolutely NO tolerance for THOSE diverse views, with a viciousness I have never seen from any conservative.

Peace

Now, come on Nathan.
Consider this point: The majority of the people in this country are against war. Why you don’t hear about it in the news is because peace is boring. They’d rather run the juicy stuff and they won’t cover protests until something happens like at Kent State.
The only forum we peaceniks have to object to such a violation of the constitution (this illegal war) is the internet.
Republicans have Fox and many other programs, but we have this medium. And if you read most of the right-leaning comments against this article, THEY spout hate and call names.
The only name I called was Bush Sr. being a devil. I believe that man is horribly self-serving and unpatriotic.
But, you’re points are still moot because Iraq STILL has done nothing to us. They’ve attacked a postage-stamp nation where our big oil interests were at stake.
Now talking about UN security council arms violations--they’re so numerous it’s crazy. Yet, we do nothing to India or Pakistan.

Bush screwed up when he proclaimed a war on terrorism. Personally, I would have like to have seen the 9-11 issue resolved before committing resources for something as fleeting as a war on terror. It’s just an invitation for more terror. Bush’s own pastor denounces war in Iraq.

Hey Staffan from Sweden:

My Great Grandfather was ALSO from Sweden, and settled in Michigan back in the 1870s.  Please help me understand what it is that Europeans don’t like about America.  Is it jealousy in the fact that in only 200+ years we have become the most powerful, sought after nation leaving “old” Europe in the dust?  When people are fleeing oppression, where do they always want to go? France?  Nope ... AMERICA!  We must be doing something right.  I am very disappointed in Europe ... (well “old” Europe) for their lack of support.  If Saddam were to go nuts in 5 or 10 years guess which country “old” Europe would turn to (once again) to bail out their behinds? France ... nope, wrong again (they’d be too busy learning middle eastern languages, eating cheese and drinking wine in preparation for their glorious surrender! ...  as usual) ... The correct answer is ... AMERICA!!

Peace

Just wanted to let you folks at ‘In These Times’ know that this article is being circulated widely. I wound up reading it because it was included in a weekly digest of items that is emailed to Green Party members here in San Diego.

Also, thanks, Mr. Vonnegut for providing a thought-provoking interview!  After reading it, here are a few of my thoughts:

1) Peace demonstrations are not about TV impact. They are about people who are so upset about something that they take to the streets in an effort to rally their immediate fellows to action. That something has no real effect unless it makes a big media splash is a lie that corporate media spreads in order to monopolize opinion. What I have noticed from attending marches here in San Diego is that people do not trust what they are hearing in the news and they want to know ‘what is really going on’.  People wind up talking to other people, rather than sitting passively in front of the Corporate Brainwashing Console. There is also something memorable about marching in or watching a Peace demonstration first-hand. Personally, I cannot really remember individual news articles or TV spots from the 60’s, but I do recall every last Peace and environmental demonstration I was in, and I am ready to do it all over again for the benefit of the slow-learners who didn’t pay attention the first time.  Teaching is, after all, a Sacred occupation.

2) There is a big difference between sincere Christians (people who seriously follow Jesus as a Spiritual Exemplar) and the blind followers of pseudo-religious demagoguery of any stripe.  The former are thoughtful people who understand that the phrase ‘Thou shalt not kill’ does not come with the phrase ‘except when it suits your political interests’ attached to it, while the latter are all too ready to do violence to anyone who does not share their particular delusions.  I say this as an outside observer as I am non-Christian myself, and I am also not seriously delusional.

3) After many years, I have come to the conclusion that I did in fact choose to be born.  Recent developments in modern physics point to a non-local basis for consciousness/awareness, and it looks like the Universe needs 11 dimensions (4 external and 7 infolded) in order to function in the way it does.  My two sisters and I have decided that our parents would have never have had sex, let alone with each other, if we hadn’t put considerable ‘inner-dimensional’ pressure on them to do so.

In almost 227 years America has, without a shadow of a doubt, proven to the world that 50 different states and millions of people of all nationalities and ethnic backgrounds, can live together in peace.  It is not Eden or Utopia but we have maintained this monumental feat since the beginning and that is our great strength and we have a right to be proud of our accomplishments to civilization; if Vermont and New Hampshire have a dispute over water rights we don’t strap on our guns and invade Vermont. We have laws and courts that decide these things. For America to fulfill and complete her destiny of greatness she must lead the world to peace via a supranational organization which include all nations. These nations, including the US, will disarm and give up WMD.  The American model of justice and fairness will be used to lead the world away from international anarchy and chaos. The nations of the world keep arming themselves out of fear and mistrust. You can’t have peace while arming for war and there is no defense against atomic bombs.  The time has come to “do” peace and not just talk about it.  Who will the leader be?

I’m glad to see that some Americans consider their own politics and leaders in a similar fashion to the way we do in Australia. Unfortunately our own leader and media seems blinded by the apparent righteousness of Bush’s rhetoric. Lunatics surely are in control of the asylum.

Hey Nathan from Earth,

What’s so hard to understand about why many Europeans (and a few people elsewhere) dislike America? You’re the schoolyard bully of the world. And now that America’s great strength is quite uncontested in the world, there is greater risk than ever for big mistakes by rash decisions and shortsighted policies.

However, speaking for myself I certainly don’t dislike America. I have lived there and have relatives there. Your nation has done well and you have a right to be proud, even though there seems to be a load more to do in welfare issues and reversing crime rates. And you have let a few administrations lead your nation far astray during the last century. The current one is well under way bullying itself into Nixon-class. It really should talk to the other guys in the yard.

www.votetoimpeach.org

I think the most awfulness comes from complaince-reporting, beamed through my television set--mostly FOX, blazened on the front page of my local daily owned by Gannett, and opined by our top-rated morning radio DJs under directive by Clear Channel. All froth!

As a German living in Dresden after calling New York his home for 5 years and living together with an American girlfriend I frequently get asked some of the following question by my german colleagues and friends: 

‘Are all americans like that? Does everybody support Bush? Are you glad you got out of the US just in time?’.

It is sometimes hard to answer, since I realy like the US and feel obligated to defend them which right now is just plain impossible.

Forwarding your interviews and notes from friends in the US help and give me reason to believe that there is some hope.

Vielen Herzlichen Dank

PS: I heard there is a band called ‘Sorry about Dresden’, are you in any way involved in that?

don’t think he likes Dubya . . .

My father-in-law says, if you disagree with someone they are an asshole, if you agree with them, then they are a genius. You sir, are a f*cking genius. Thanks for all the years of entertainment, and thanks for speaking out. Too many people are afraid to these days. How refreshing!

Does anyone else wish that “w” would just get a blowjob, and then take one of his naps and dream of Peace?

Great! Vonnegut has such an earthy creativity.  One more for the “ain’t worth a pitcher of warm spit” award: Dubya and his gigantic pissant administration.  Problem is, I think we’re gonna be drownin’ in that Texas warm spit pretty soon.

I loved it!  “C students from Yale”, or short stories about the “Skull and Bones Society” founded by a group of madcap grave robbers, one of the leaders of which was Grandaddy Bush, or “Fear and Loathing in America” how democracy was circumvented to form a totalitarian state, or how about Ashcroft and the new Nazi Right in “No Man’s Home is His Castle”.  I could go on, of course,
but not being one of the priviledged, I’ve got taxes to pay. 

Heartwarming.  Imagine saying that about Kurt?  Warm, fuzzy and hopeful that SOMEBODY is saying it. 

I too despair for my country. Kurt Vonnegut speaks for me.

---Larry Forbes

I have never felt the fear of my own government or the total helplessness
brought about by the gbush11 coup.

America wake up. We need to vote in massive numbers against the republicans and I use that word loosely, I do not think these people are republicans or for that fact Americans but facist.nazis plain and simple, or they will rig the next election .

Pray for America.

What can anyone say. Vonnegut is funny. Sadly, what he says here about our leaders, quote unquote, is completely true, imho. He’s superb at telling it like it is. I love this guy. And I want to read more of Bleifuss.

You have to be kidding Mr. Vonnegut.  You really need to get out more and get off your high holy horse.  Vietnam was Vietnam.  TERRORISM IS TERRORISM.  Please do some research and get the facts straight.  Saddam Hussein has had 12 LONG years, 8 of which under Clinton’s watch.  Within these years, there have been 17 resolutions passed to enforce his disarmament.  He has not done so.  I really do respect your views and I commend your efforts as an American citizen to voice your opinion.  That is what America is about, but you and your cronies Noam Chomsky, Edward Said, World Workers Party a.k.a. Not In Our Name, A.N.S.W.E.R., ETC… really need to stop for a second and realize that the terrorist would kill you first because of the freedoms you are excercizing.  Don’t you see that?  You and your ilk make valid points in your arguement, but you are only seeing the small picture as compared to the larger picture at hand. Here I print some articles that you might want to read.  You people just don’t get it.

Oh so many years , oh so short my memory , but I believe the only thing that can be said about the goings on is , “peet o weet” ... certainly not an answer , but it brought the only smile to my face in the last 406 days ... Imagine me talking to the great K.V.  i thank you !!!

I agree with the last comment.  I must say Kurt’s books are wonderful, but his political views are borderline communist.  I really do not understand the liberal media and its desire for Saddam Hussien to stay in power.  There must be something fishy going on.

Andrew, you are a bonehead and might consider learning how to spell before you advise Kurt Vonnegut to research terrorism.  Bush is the real terrorist, taking advantage of the unfortunate tragedy of 9-11 the way he has done.  You, dear, poor dear Andrew, have been flummoxed and fooled by the Bush propaganda arm.  Blowhards like Rush Limbaugh get paid millions by the fat cats to fool people like you.  According to George W. “‘You can fool some of the people all of the time,’ and those are the ones you have to concentrate on.” How’s it feel to be one of those people, dear, pathetic Andrew?

What is happening to this country?  I think k.v. needs to read some newspapers and listen to the news, cuz he out of his mind.  I think all of you wacko jackos out there would rather watch a beastiality film rather than deal with Saddam.

WAKE UP!!!!

This is a wonderful piece, I have been a fan of Vonnegut forever. Truer words have not been spoken about the folks in this administration.

Bush is a fucking idiot.  I wish we could ship Bush, Ashcroft, Cheney, Rumsfield to Iraq.

M.J. and Andrew--two more candidates for the C-student brigade.  It tickles me no end that the people with positive things to say about Vonnegut’s opinions write good sentences.  M.J. and Andrew couldn’t write a decent sentence if we threatened to drown their dumb asses in that bucket of warm spit!

Absolutely right on the mark.  Go Kurt.

By the way, M.J., it’s “bestiality,” not “beastiality”; and you used “rather” awkwardly and redundantly twice in the same sentence.  Only a beast would make such an error, you bete noire!  And you, you moron, Andrew, it’s “argument,” not “arguement.” I guess those who can’t spell “argument” aren’t very good at making arguments.  So one would be forced to conclude from reading these comments.

I disagree with you, Andrew.
A lot of the wrong-doings by the Bush and Regan administration are coming back to haunt us. Especially the middle east dictators our own government put in power. Remember, Sr. was once head of the CIA?
Why did we have peace in the Middle-East during Clinton? He worked with them. There was almost an unprecedented peace treay signed before W.’s daddy rigged him an election.
This finger-pointing at the previous administration is pointless, just like the millions of our taxpayers dollars spent trying to impeach him on the most ridiculous of ideas.
Senate Ethics Committee? Ha! Politicians angry because someone lied? Ha ha!
This isn’t about the previous administration. It’s another ruse to cover up the bin Laden family ties to Sr. and the takes people’s minds off of losing their life savings.

In “Mother Night,” Kurt Vonnegut’s depiction of The Reverend Doctor Lionel Jason David Jones’ theory about Jewish teeth gave me the best out-loud laugh I have ever had from a piece of literature!  I’m glad he is still going strong.

This story is very well written and all so truthful.  Keep up the good work.

Not to jump on the anti-SUV bandwagon, but why hasn’t anyone asked Mr. Vonnegut exactly WHY he appears in a Nissan SUV commercial?  What’s up with that?

Guess what Charles...we’re going to war and there is nothing you and your liberal friends can do about it.  Wait..........wait.................wait......................................... .............silence....that is all you can do.........................

Kurt Vonnegut, I think I love you.  I am a veteran too, although I served in peacetime in a photographic unit in the AF where I drew pictures and mounted slides for Chaplain’s presentations.  Yes, Mr. Vonnegut we have an illegal resident of the White House with his brain in his gut and a shameful staff of chickenhawks willing to help him destroy civilization.  And it looks like they are going to do it, intelligence and cools heads be damned.  Sheila Jackson

Kurt Vonnegut has hit the proverbial nail on the head!  His pessimism mirrors mine.  How could our country be in the hands of these imperialistic renegades?  Why don’t people realize how dangerous they are?  What can we do about them?

Kurt Vonnegut has long been a favorite writer of mine.  Bravo, Mr. V., for a right-on commentary.  And the rest of us should go out and protest until exhaustion against the bush (shrub) regime.  We are in deep doo-doo…

i hate to be the bearer of bad news, but i think everyone here just made the ashcroft/pointdexter list.  i can’t wait for 4 more years of bush.  maybe he can finally unleash his goodness fully for more righteousness after 2004.

i can’t wait for book bannings or perhaps book burnings.  that mark twain guy has always ticked me off with comments like:

“Statesmen will invent cheap lies, putting blame upon the nation that is attacked, and every man will be glad of those conscience-soothing falsities, and will diligently study them, and refuse to examine any refutations of them; and thus he will by and by convince himself that the war is just, and will thank God for the better sleep he enjoys after this process of grotesque self-deception.”

or

“To be a patriot, one had to say, and keep on saying, ‘Our country, right or wrong,’ and urge on the little war. Have you not perceived that that phrase is an insult to the nation.”

mark twain—that commie bastard!

no matter what you guys think, which group of braver politicians could we have found in our collective population then peace loving men like g bush jr., dick cheney, richard perle, john ashcroft, paul wolfowitz, etc. who all avoided combat duties during their own era of youth?  now that’s true testament to their peace loving principles.

<<I love how liberals are always preaching about “acceptance” “tolerance” and “diversity” But if they run into a group of people THEY don’t like ... watch out ... they’ll trash, insult, and show absolutely NO tolerance for THOSE diverse views, with a viciousness I have never seen from any conservative. >>
(to quote myself)

From the ever lovely Mr Ashley:

....Only a beast would make such an error, you bete noire! And you, you moron, Andrew, it’s “argument,” not “arguement.” I guess those who can’t spell “argument” aren’t very good at making arguments. So one would be forced to conclude from reading these comments. ....

I think that more than makes my point!

And Andrew ... notice how he attacked your SPELLING but didn’t even attempt to attack your POINT! I think you came out on top as the more civil and intelligent man.

Peace!

Peace!

<<It’s another ruse to cover up the bin Laden family ties to Sr. and the takes people’s minds off of losing their life savings.>>

Do you really think a President has THAT much control over the stock market and the economy?  The stock market was WAY out of control in the late 90s and wasn’t even realistic.  Greenspan raised interest rates REPEATEDLY which started to slow down the “Irrational Exuberance” The economy was on its way down whether Bush, Gore, Ross Perot, or even Nixon (giving orders through a psychic medium) took office!  If you want to blame someone, blame Greenspan for the interest rate rollercoaster ... of course in the end, he probably averted a major stock market crash ... You had companies with no profits ... no nothing ... moving up 15 dollars a day.  And it turns out that “great” economy under Clinton wasn’t even reality ... corporations were inflating their profits and lying like it was 1920 again!  Oh it is so frustrating ... where do you liberals get this stuff!

Peace

It is Andrew, Jason, and M.J. who play fast and loose with the facts.  It is precisely the vacuously considered aggressive bellicosity that has infected our culture that Vonnegut and others regard with such well founded contempt.  These posters might do better to research
history with a more discriminating eye than mindlessly parrot the shiboleths of P.R. “spin meisters” and their allied “info"tainment news media, sponsored by gratuitous players of the military-industrial complex.  It is the compelling failure of citizens like these that contribute to the distinct possibility that men and women in uniform, not to speak of countless 100s of 1000s of defenseless civilians will be swept up in a draconian,
unnecessary, and horrific conflagration.

Unnecessary, I say?  Let us review history.  see my next post

FICTION:  Saddam Hussein has been a force behind Middle East unrest since he was allowed to remain in power after being compelled to withdraw his troops from Kuwait in 1991. 
FACT:  Intelligence and news reports have failed to find any but fleeting and inconsequential connections between the Iraqi Baath regime and Hezbollah, Hamas, Al Qaeda, etc.  Secretary Powell’s address to the UN last week made reference to one
operative known in Iraq who, in effect, may actually have been collaborating in the northern “no-fly zone” Kurdistan which has long been denied Sadaam’s jurisdiction.
The Secretary made favorable reference to a British report prepared at Downing St. which has since been revealed to be a redacted five year old essay by a Cambridge student.
He frequently cited as sources: “detainees” (presumably from war in Afghanistan).
Last December and since, the Washington Post and other media outlets have reported that “detainees” have been subjected to routine physical assaults and tortures.  Some
have been handed over to war lord partisans for tortuous execution.
FACT:  Al Qaida operatives have been identifed in at least 16 countries, including the
western hemisphere.  Given their “long arms” of infiltration, it would be hardly surprisng that this organization would be at least attempting to function in Iraq.  Would their presence there suffice as a presumption for major collaboration with the Iraqi regime?  I don’t think so!
FICTION:  Without a drastic intervention, the Iraqi regime will be capable of constructing
nuclear weapons (paraphrasing Pres. GWB with PM TB at his side on 9/7/02) according
the IAEA.
FACT:  Three weeks later, spokesmen from the latter organization denied ever reporting
such a calumny to a reporter for the (Moonie owned) Washington Times.  It is only known that since 1991, the Iraqi’s have imported plutonium rods that CAN NOT be enriched for weaponry purposes.  One can only presume that this Pres. maliciously and deliberately lied to citizens and the Congress to buttress his case in support of administration intentions for
calamitous military incursion.

see my next post > FACT vs. FICTION

FICTION:  Saddam intends to use his chemical and biological WMD against his neighbors, Israel, and westerners.
FACT:  The fact that the above has not occurred since Iraq’s defeat in Kuwait is compelling evidence that Saddam faces powerful deterrents.  The US and it allies (what remains of them!!??) have military deployment capabilities that could punish Iraq proper with devastating consequences, further undermining Iraq’s crippled transportation and
utilities infrastructure.  Whether or not the Secretary’s disclosures about Iraqi WMD factories is accurate or not, the process is in place now that has been for most of the time since 1991.  The powerful international containment capability that is supposed to be accorded to the UN inspection team has been spectacularly successful in the past.
FACT:  Many countries have violated UN resolutions in the past, including Iraq and Israel.
The USA is now included in their number.  In effect, the Secretary admitted to being in violation of Resolution 1441 by providing pertinent information and intelligence in an open UN forum (and to a globally indoctrinated audience) before providing information clandestinely
to the weapons inspectors.  As in the past, Security council member nations would then provide dis-arming logistical support.  The US breached an obligation required of all Security Council members who were signatory to the agreement.  Why depart from what we know has worked in the past to mount a “pr” “dog and pony” show?  Could it be that our leadership in DC is hell bent on a path to “overkill”? 
FICTION:  Saddam’s threats to global peace and security are on a par with Hitler’s growing strength and militarism in the 1930s.  This sort of paranoid pastiche reveals a
depressingly caustic ignorance of history and a reckless and irresponsible disregard for
accuracy in global affairs.  Would that Hitler’s nefarious aims and motives from 1933 to 1939 had been contained as well as Saddam’s atrocious designs from 1991 to 2003.  In that same period, Saddam’s technological threats never exceeded the capability of a
wastrel by comparison to his adversaries who have held him in check.
see next post

Question to all the posters

Wouldn’t it be better than a singularly targeted military assault to procure more of our energies and resources on behalf of stemming the tide of international terrorism led by the likes of Osama “bin Forgotten”?  Given the facts, which activity do you think will
do more to secure our freedoms, be they of speech, travel, theism, or atheism?  On another tack, do you think that the deprivations pushed through and sought out in DC such as the “patriot” act and the TIA to be coordinated by Adm. William “IranContragate” Poindexter will secure our freedoms in the long run?

Pardon me !  Just stating facts and asking questions!

Nathan, we sure don’t get the stuff from the one-sided Fox or the network news. We get it from reliable sources that the right denounces as “conspiracy theorists”.
My main point was Bush raising a smoke screen over his lack of (or maybe intended lack of) getting bin Laden.
And who said anything about the stock market? How about all the corporate executives Bush appointed government jobs? Enron? Arthur Andersen? These are the people who’ve helped wipe out retirement savings. I never mentioned the stock market. However, it did go way down when he was elected.
I can get you sources for my statement about Bush’s ties with Hasseim bin Laden.
And, by the way, it was reported today the the aforementioned bin Laden released a 16-minute taped message to middle East news stations urging the Arab world to stop the US with any means necessary. Is this proof Iraq and Al Queda are linked? No. He goes on to denounce Hussein’s government.

Relax, man. We ARE patriots voicing our dissent over a war we feel is completely wrong, will kill people we know, will further alienate us from the rest of the world, will costs billions, will drive up the price of gas and won’t resolve anything. It’ll just prove we won’t go after any nation violating said UN resolutions unless we have some interest at stake.
My opinion and my duty as a citizen to speak out against something I feel is unconstitutional.

By the way, Nathan, you’ve been a good sport. Thanks for not calling any of us “candy asses” like someone did earlier on this post.

cheers

What a difference to hear Kurt saying what any normal human being thinks,instead of the usual bullshit from Bush and Blair.Today more scare stories were issued both sides of the Atlantic,but can we really believe relible intelligenceany of it.Last week Colin Powell praised the British report on Iraq,then a few hours later it was found to have been coiped off various websites,passed on as reliable intelligence even though some of it was 12 years old.Perhaps a warning should be issued about someone called Hannibal ? he comes from north Africa,and what with his Elephants he seems to a right dodgy piece of work.I would also like to say thanks to Kurt for all the pleasure he has given me and millions of people everywhere through his writing,the man is simpley a genius.

As usual, Kurt Vonnegut has provided an insightful analysis of the foolishness of our idiot leaders. I hope our protest will have more power than said banana cream pie. Thanks to Vonnegut and Bleifuss.

<<Israel has violated 19 UN security council resolutions involving land and holdings against Pallestine. And we back them regardless, which shows bias against the Arab world.>>

Maybe this Israeli site will help people understand how we have arrived at this impasse.

http://www.gush-shalom.org/english/index.html

You are a bunch of sad ass hippies who can’t possibly realize that sometimes it is necesarry to take out your enemies before they have the chance to do so to you.  I don’t support war mongering or jumping into a conflict for base reasons, but Sadam with chemical and biological weapons is something that is not good for anyone.  The article talks about Bush not caring for humanity, but if we were to stand down and allow Sadam to continue, horrible things will happen.  He may not attack us, but what about the countries surrounding him?  What about his own people?  Let’s not forget that he has used chemical weapons on his own citizens.  How is allowing this to continue good for humanity?!?

Doug, whatever happened to Khadaffi? He’s still in power and hasn’t done anything since the mid-80’s. Oh, wait, there’s nothing to gain by taking him out.
Hmmm, North Korea, maybe we should take them out, huh? Oh, wait, nothing to gain.

We don’t have the right to start a war on Iraq unless we have the backing of the UN and so far, we don’t. If Bush invades Poland, I mean, Iraq, it’ll be a violation of this nation’s constitution, going against the War Power Act.
The worst thing I can call you in reply to your sad ass hippy remark is a blind sheep being led to the slaughter.
Think for yourself, man and open your eyes.

Question: Isn’t the DICTATOR of North Korea just as corrupt and tyrannical as Saddam, yet we, the bringers of liberty and freedom, do not feel the moral compulsion to oust him? And last time I checked the news, North Korea said they would attack us if we invaded Iraq. Ummm...isn’t that a threat to national security? But the government’s response is “we have a plan for all constigencies.” Meaning if they hit us, we’ll be justified in going to war with them.  Yep, we don’t have to worry about terrorism anymore, we got WWIII on our hands. 

And if we should not take drugs because it supports terrorism then why should we drive cars? What about putting money into adapting society to fuel cells?

Some say we’ll see armagedon soon. I certainly hope we will. I sure could use a vacation from this bullshit three ring circus side show.

Patrick,
Like I said, I don’t support something until I am sure of why it is necessary.  As far as the examples you gave, we are not looking to start war with these people/countries, and not every dictator or regime needs to be taken out.  Only when it is necessary and of a just cause, do i support going to war.  I feel that the potential war with Iraq would be a just one.  Did you watch Powell’s address to the UN?  How can you dispute this evidence.  Kurt Vonnegut in his article doesn’t even give support for the ideas that he presents.  At least the government has cold hard facts to back their case. 

stephen c. pelletiere, the cia’s senior political analyst on iraq during the iran-iraq war wrote an article in the ny times a week or two ago to counter the bush administration’s claims that saddam used gas weapons on his own people.  he cited that a classified defense intelligence report concluded that the intended targets were the iranians and that it was the iranians’ gas weapons that caused the deaths reported by the media.

but hey, don’t let the truth ruin anyone’s argument for war or spoil the bush administration’s rationale for war.

How about that liberal American press. Here are some issues they seem to have skipped over:

1.Saddam Hussein, age 21 attempted to murder the president of Iraq. This did not deter the United Stated from arming and supporting him when he was at war with Iraq.

2.After the war in Iraq, George Bush Senior encouraged the people of Iraq to rebel. He then changed his mind and allowed, aided and abetted the troops of Saddam Hussein to murder thousands of Kurds.

3.Almost one third of gulf war veterans have claimed illness and disability after the gulf war. Initially this was treated as false claims and hysteria. Recently a documents on the middle east discussed the use of uranium waste to harden armaments used in the gulf war. The show raised the question of minute quantities contaminated nuclear waste as
a byproduct of the friction of these hardened shells penetrating the steel plate of military vehicles. Twenty countries now manufacture these type of weapons. They will most likely be used again in this next war.

4.The embargo against Iraq had done little to clip the claws of Saddam Hussein. Business week, several months ran a story how Saddam and his family circumvented the restrictions. Meanwhile, tens of thousands of children in Iraq have died from lack of food and medicine.

5.Finally, most importantly, the Bush administration, within the first months of its taking office assessed the consumption of oil over the next 20 years and its impact on the US. They concluded: Americaís military and economic might and our way of life depends on cheap oil. In 20 years they predict oil consumption will rise about 25%. In order to keep the price of oil cheap, the middle east, must increase production 85%.

Now wouldnít you think any one of these issues is newsworthy?

Shall I begin with saying that Clinton, in comparison, makes Bush look like an A+ Yalie. At least he has a moral compass. When Osama came to lioght, all Billy did was send cruise missiles. Look what that got us. Look at the twin towers...oops, they’re not here. At least now we’ll be DOING something about it. Those of you limp-wristed liberals that care to stand on the sidelines and “think about it “ can watch as we rid the world of a pestilance

Shall I begin with saying that Clinton, in comparison, makes Bush look like an A+ Yalie. At least he has a moral compass. When Osama came to lioght, all Billy did was send cruise missiles. Look what that got us. Look at the twin towers...oops, they’re not here. At least now we’ll be DOING something about it. Those of you limp-wristed liberals that care to stand on the sidelines and “think about it “ can watch as we rid the world of a pestilance

Hard to believe this cat’s still got the wit & tit to say it clearly, and with style.  I haven’t heard anyone talk about dubbaya with such clarity since he (and his bro’) stole the presidency.  Viva Kurt !!

I am tired of people being called Anti-American, by the likes of Mona Charen and others in the press, simply for exercising their first amendment rights of free speech and assembly.  People have every right to question their “elected” leaders.  These people aren’t anointed nor are they above reproach.

Before WELCOME TO THE MONKEY HOUSE, Vonnegut had a collection of short stories called CANARY IN A COALMINE.  (It’s long out of print, I’m sure).  The idea behind the canary was/is that it would serve as an early-warning system to the miners, by keeling over when it could no longer breathe the air.  The message to the miners:  Get out of Dodge!

As an artist, Vonnegut has equated his role to that of the canaries.  And this is what he is doing once more in this interview!  He is warning us of the perilous path our leaders seem determined to follow. 

I live in a city where there is only one major newspaper.  This paper owns a monopoly.  What I see more and more is this paper and many of our media outlets printing or telling nothing but the governments standard line on issues.  I write to the Arizona Republic often about their responsibility as a government watchdog, but nothing changes.  The Bush administration and its power is frightening.  Bush has a pattern for upgrading terrorist warnings and putting the fear of terrorism into our citizens.  He uses this to bolster his approval ratings. 

exactly what has been so compelling in either bush’s state of the union address or powell’s speech to the u.n. that makes the case for war so logical to some?

1) aluminum tubes? - refuted by u.n. inspectors (as well as u.s. military experts) as conventional hardware and easily detectable if attempts were made to alter the configurations.
2) imminent nuclear capabilities? - refuted by u.n. inspectors as well as by cia and assessment is that it is nowhere near ready for production capabilities as insisted by bush administration.
3) al-quaida links? - refuted by just about every major international intelligence agency including u.s., british, russian.
4) gassed his own people? - refuted by cia and u.s. defense intelligence.
5) mobile nuclear truck labs? - refuted by u.n. inspectors who have examined actual trucks that bush administration claims were labs of death.
6) tortures his own people? - every country has their own patriot act equivalents.
7) taped conversations of 2 iraqis?  what if they were talking about their take-outs for the night?
8) allegations that iraq have untraceable links to terrorist organizations? - is bush going to just make things up that can’t be proven every time he speaks?
9) he’s a really bad guy? - that’s all we have to go with for war?  you’ve got to be kidding!!!

aren’t any of the warhawks out there bothered by the fact that every argument forwarded by the bush administration has been refuted by some recognized international authority and the adminstration still uses those same arguments in some fantasy neverland reasoning that only the bush administration can understand?

how can anyone have faith in this administration.  it’s no wonder why the whole world has such a low opinion of the u.s.

Mr. Vonnegut is correct! You see… I know this firsthand. I had an accidental encounter with the shopper/terrorist Mohammed Atta and cohorts in August 2001 in a public place. How would you like it if a Global Fucking Terrorist showed up in your place of business? I bet you wouldn’t like that too much Mr. Young Republican. And, oh yes, that Padilla fellow… they are right to be holding him. He came into my place of business in 2002 (Post WTC) to size me up. They’re holding him in the Naval brig in Charleston SC with very good reason… to keep him far away from the world… and so that nobody will ever know the truth. And oh yes, Katherine Harris was in my place of employment before the 2000 election, but what could that have to do with anything, I mean, My God, they can’t possibly be related in any way now, can they? Anyways, I work in a public place just outside Hunter Army Airfield, and around this time last year I had the pleasure to meet Sgt. Bradley Crose and Pfc. Matthew Commons. Both of these young men, age 27 and 21, were in the prime of their lives. Both could be described as articulate, handsome, and kind. Both were still a little green around the edges, but they had savvy, dreams, and goals and—presumably—a long life ahead of them. However, they both died in Afghanistan on March 4th, 2002, because George W. Bush told the FBI to “back off of Bin Laden” in Mid-2001. Crose and Commons are now bonemeal and ash, and Bush is still not impeached. Where the !@&* is the Justice in that?

So if you’re reading this thread, and you’re ALL for war, and you’re baring your fangs, and you’re flexing your muscles, and if you can spit fire, or at least hold an AK-47, why haven’t you already enlisted yet? I mean… you can GO ‘NAM AND ALL SHIT. What’s keeping you from killing some Iraqis BOYS? Haven’t you been to Boot Camp yet? Peace takes courage, and your Commander in Chief has none! Kurt Vonnegut fought in a really dangerous war and lived to tell about it. George W. Bush probably couldn’t fire a slingshot straight to save his life. George W. Bush was so afraid of the War in Vietnam, that he fled all the way to the Alabama National Guard, and THEN he went AWOL. Who has more guts… Vonnegut? Commons? Crose? All three definitely do. George W. Bush is a cheerleading chickenhawk and a “One Term President” at best. He has no guts. If you care even one iota for the people around you, there will be no unjust war for oil.