instead of treating the symptoms of terrorism (9/11, bali bombings, etc.), how about asking our government to treat the causes of terrorism? because with this logic to handle terrorism (axis of evil, “you’re either with us or against us”, etc.), the u.s. may have to wipe out 80% of the world to attain its goals. thank goodness for the bush administration to be in charge to enslave goodwill from our world neighbors. it’s good to be loved and to be able to travel safely throughout the world in the next 50 years after this iraqi war.
Posted by d lee on Feb 12, 2003 at 8:27 PM
Listen….
What do Americans, British, Australians and Iraqis have in common?
1. Ignorance…. lots of it.
2. Politicians who don’t listen to their people.
3. Media that can’t question lies.
4. Idiots for leaders.
.... so you see, despite the West having clean water, cling-wrap and Playstations, none of us have the things that really matter. Isn’t that interesting?
In the name of truth check this out… the credentials are OK:
http://www.polyconomics.com/showarticle.asp?articleid=2434
Finally:
“I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones”.
Albert Einstein
Much love….. Chris Australia.
Posted by Chris Shaw on Feb 12, 2003 at 9:39 PM
<<i do agree that peace from only one side is suicide. no wonder north korea and iran are spending so much of their resources to achieve nuclear weaponry status. it’s certain suicide for them not to do so in this political climate.>>
It absolutely amazes me how the left sides with KNOWN dictators and aggressors. North Korea ATTACKED South Korea ... do you not remember that?? How can you POSSIBLY relate the horrors of the North Korean regime to the United States of America. Do you not realize that if it weren’t for the USA there would be NO North Korea ... only Korea ... a Communist Korea ... What has happened to the Public Education system in America? ... do none of you know and understand history? ... it is SO frustrating. If Iraq and Korea are such wonderful places why don’t you pick up and go live there? It is almost like you are not even THINKING ... THINK please ... I value my freedom and with thinking like yours I will HAVE none. Do you REALLY want North Korea to have a nuclear weapon?? ... Do you really think it is OK for North Korea to have a nuclear weapon???? You must be out of your mind!
Posted by Nathan on Feb 12, 2003 at 9:46 PM
Kurt for President!
Posted by Rick on Feb 12, 2003 at 10:36 PM
Under this administration, beautiful America has become a Demockery.
Posted by neli on Feb 12, 2003 at 11:42 PM
is it me or is it really true that war and peace supporters really do have a different understanding of the english language?
i write that i can understand why countries such as north korea and iran strive to attain nuclear arsenals. i get a response that i am pro north korea and pro iran.
it’s like some readers don’t quite comprehend fully what he reads but can’t contain himself to employ the usual diatribes of “why-don’t-you-go-live-there” remarks. i do agree with the rhetorical of what has happened to the public education system of this earth (assuming that the individual attended public education)? it is very frustrating. i agree!
Posted by d lee on Feb 12, 2003 at 11:55 PM
RIGHT ON KURT !!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by ryan on Feb 13, 2003 at 5:08 AM
Kurt Vonnegut, a REAL American!
Breakfast of Champions, my all time favorite.
Keep fighting the GOOD fight Kurt!
Posted by Ramalamadingdong on Feb 13, 2003 at 6:30 AM
“is it me or is it really true that war and peace supporters really do have a different understanding of the english language? “
It is NOT you! Whenever the right wing speaks it is always the same programmed party line which they spew out like robots, indicating their inability to think and reason. Bush has been pushing microchips which can be implanted with a flu shot, and from right-wing zombie-like diatribes I’m reading, it looks like the “programming” program is a success. Say no to vaccine!
Posted by Louis on Feb 13, 2003 at 6:33 AM
How refreshing it is to read such bold, honest, humourous, and much NEEDED commentary on the state of this country turned pathetic lap dog to ‘PP’s. It seems, sadly, that in a ‘red/white/&blue;’ frenetically myopic collective spasm, all intelligent life forms have run for cover leaving hollow marionette’s to man the controls. How pathetic! There must be a way to infiltrate the stupidity rampant today. Thank you Vonnegut for being disgusted and thank you Bleifuss for conducting this interview.
Posted by maya greven on Feb 13, 2003 at 9:35 AM
Vonnegut’s incisive delineation of our current goverment is reasurring, offering a bell of hope…....if only it could ring loud enough to awaken country out of its gross complacency, its comfortably willful ignorance, we might all feel a little more unified and look at tomorrow with a little less frightened. I’m listening. Thanks Kurt.
Posted by Jamys Vining on Feb 13, 2003 at 10:22 AM
Kurt Vonnegut, like Nelson Mandela and earlier, Eugene Debs, is a saint of modern times, and he is also a prophet in his insightfulness. It’s too bad there aren’t more people like him and fewer like W and “Kenny Boy” Lay. And, yes, Colin Powell.
Posted by Jim Weidman on Feb 13, 2003 at 10:41 AM
Well, at least George Bush will be out of office in a few years and maybe the next President can at least partially undo the damage he has caused. But nobody will ever undo what Kurt Vonnegut has done. He is one of the ones responsible for waking me (and many others) up, and we will never go back to sleep again.l
Posted by Ed Freeman on Feb 13, 2003 at 11:46 AM
First, let me say that I wish a political voice as ironic, poetic and concise as Kurt Vonnegut could burst on the scene of mainstream books and media. His kind is a dying breed. Indeed, God Bless you Mr. Vonnegut!
Secondly, I have no problem in and of itself of Yale C-Students. I just wish that they would stay with cushy high paying non-essential corporate jobs. This propaganda campaign of a social and patriotic conscience portrayed in the media by and for these fools is incredibly dangerous! Its a complete and total lie to think of GWB as a great president. The man has never been held responsible for anything in his life. He blew coke up his nose until he was 40. He ran three oil companies into the ground. He fixed an election…His only real proficiency has been murder. He allowed executions for inmates where DNA evidence proved their innocence….executed a mentally retarded man…..made unflattering impersonations of a soon to be executed woman. Now, he wants bigger numbers….a slaughter of innocent people who have nothing to do with their oppressor. Meanwhile, North Korea and El Kida (spelling?) go unnoticed…..I am thankful I do not have a child 18 years of age.
Bush, however is a statesman. Here is a quote he gave to CBS news at the 1988 Republican Convention:
Reporter: What do you and your dad talk about when you are not talking politics?
Bush: Pussy.
USA! USA! USA!.....and people wonder why the world thinks of us as dirty Americans.
Posted by Christopher Oberly on Feb 13, 2003 at 11:51 AM
I have enejoyed Mr. Vonnegut’s work since the 1970’s I find that he is one of the smartest individuals on the earth, and this interview just makes the case that much more concrete. I just wish that he was here in London to join us in the biggest march ever held here (at least since VE day). Rock on, may you live another 20 years!
Posted by Angel Perez on Feb 13, 2003 at 12:48 PM
I have enejoyed Mr. Vonnegut’s work since the 1970’s I find that he is one of the smartest individuals on the earth, and this interview just makes the case that much more concrete. I just wish that he was here in London to join us in the biggest march ever held here (at least since VE day). Rock on, may you live another 20 years!
Posted by Angel Perez on Feb 13, 2003 at 12:49 PM
<<i write that i can understand why countries such as north korea and iran strive to attain nuclear arsenals. i get a response that i am pro north korea and pro iran. >>
Read again what you wrote ... how you worded it with a liberal slant ... how you said Peace from one side is suicide (twisting my words and implying that Korea is peaceful and must protect itself from the aggressive west) Notice how you TOTALLY avoided my argument about history. Give me an example in the past 200 years where the USA has said ... hmm ... that Canada (insert a country that has done NOTHING evil) would be an easy target ... let’s go invade them. America is NEVER the aggressor. My point (which you missed) is that Korea is not a peaceful country passing out flowers and giving people hugs.
... and to Louis ...um and the Left DOESN’T speak in programmed responses?? I knew exactly what Senator Kennedy was going to say about Powel’s U.N. presentation before Powel even spoke! Left Mantras:
—War for Oil (yawn)
—Bush only wants to help his oil buddies (yawn)
—Bush just wants war so he can deflect from the weak economy (yawn)
—Bush is a stupid Yale C student who is a complete idiot and avoided Vietnam anyway (yawn ... he piloted the equivalent of an Air Force F-16 in the Air National Guard ... um you can’t be TOO dumb to fly one of those ... oh and he scored about the same on the SATs as Gore did ... which is probably higher than a lot of you here did .. he got in the mid/high 1200’s .. which in the 1960s was VERY good since the test now is watered down)
—What about N. Korea .. they already have Nuclear weapons (yawn ... lack of intellect and understanding of Military strategy and history)
etc etc ...
Peace
Posted by Nathan on Feb 13, 2003 at 5:10 PM
<<He fixed an election>>
Um ... please explain exactly how he did that? You do know that he would have won Florida ANYWAY had all the votes been counted ... oh that’s right .. you may not ... because the liberal media BARELY reported the story ... remember when a bunch of newspapers went to Florida and really counted ALL the ballots with the most forgiving criteria possible ... they found that Bush would have won afterall ....
Ta ta
Posted by Nathan on Feb 13, 2003 at 5:14 PM
Very cool article. Old people have the eyes of uneasy birds. I totally agree about the Christians!
Posted by Ania on Feb 13, 2003 at 6:02 PM
ok. let me get this straight. i meet a stranger on the streets. he is homeless. it is a cold winter. he needs to stay warm. he trespasses onto a property and thereby breaks the law. he does so to probably stay warm for the night. i learn about this and i say to myself, “yes he broke the law by trespassing but i can understand why he did it.” so by some of our reader’s comprehension of reality, i’m pro-crime. well then…guilty as charged.
there’s just so much fodder in some of these messages that if i have to sit here and respond to every one of the points, it would become a full time job. granted, i am very very tempted to respond to certain messages here point by point. unfortunately, i don’t get paid to enlighten the confused on message boards.
Posted by d lee on Feb 13, 2003 at 6:33 PM
Right On!, old man. I only hope that at 80 (10 + years from now), I can retain a fraction of KV’s fire and anger—assuming I’m still around and/or thinking. I particularly enjoyed his PP theory. Scarily enough, he’s probably right.
Posted by Peter on Feb 13, 2003 at 6:36 PM
Nathan,
Your “yawns” aren’t very good comebacks.
North Korea has had nukes for about 12 years.
You probably won’t like this site, but here’s a link. I might not beleive everything on here, but he talks about quite a lot of what people are finding out.
http://www.hermes-press.com/brainwash1.htm
Some say the only reason countries develop nukes in the first place is to keep from being attacked. Don’t know. I mean, if you knew somebody would unload their arsenal if you attacked them, might make them think twice.
And there’s a ton of proof about Bush and his father’s illegal and immoral dealings. Christopher just scratched the surface. And you should do your research on Kathernine Harris and the numerous counts of voter fraud in the Florida election. Yeah the tally would have come out in his favor because about 20,000 registered Democrats weren’t allowed to vote. Take that one up with the NAACP for proof.
Posted by Patrick on Feb 13, 2003 at 6:57 PM
<<And there’s a ton of proof about Bush and his father’s illegal and immoral dealings. Christopher just scratched the surface. And you should do your research on Kathernine Harris and the numerous counts of voter fraud in the Florida election. Yeah the tally would have come out in his favor because about 20,000 registered Democrats weren’t allowed to vote. Take that one up with the NAACP for proof. >>
Y a w n .... um yeah, sure ...
Posted by Nathan on Feb 13, 2003 at 8:09 PM
<<there’s just so much fodder in some of these messages that if i have to sit here and respond to every one of the points, it would become a full time job. granted, i am very very tempted to respond to certain messages here point by point. unfortunately, i don’t get paid to enlighten the confused on message boards.>>
Well I have a feeling it is more likely that you can’t respond. But a good attempt to gain the upperhand by saying nothing, I’ll give you that.
Posted by Nathan on Feb 13, 2003 at 8:13 PM
it really isn’t that difficult to have the upper hand when exchanging points with someone who can’t recall a single instance of american agression within the last 200 years and further boldly makes the claim “America has NEVER been the aggressor.”
it’s not everyday where one enters a debate forum and the counterpart magnifies your own credibility every time he raises a point. i do appreciate the help, but it really isn’t necessary.
Posted by d lee on Feb 13, 2003 at 8:27 PM
Well, you’ve proven to this board your inability to prover YOUR points. I’ve pointed out my sources but yours is YAWN.
Intelligent, compassionate…
I thought you were being cool, but it’s plain to see your ignorance and blindness to these issues only grants you what you deserve. A bankrupt, bombed to hell country because a fascist president did what he wanted against the will of the world.
Posted by Patrick on Feb 13, 2003 at 8:29 PM
<<it really isn’t that difficult to have the upper hand when exchanging points with someone who can’t recall a single instance of american agression within the last 200 years and further boldly makes the claim “America has NEVER been the aggressor.” >>
OK smart guy ... name them ... again you have yet to give any examples ... just empty fluff
Posted by Nathan on Feb 13, 2003 at 8:36 PM
<<Well, you’ve proven to this board your inability to prover YOUR points. I’ve pointed out my sources but yours is YAWN. >>
First Yawn point I made that REALLY gets my back up! Oil .. War for Oil ... Do you walk to work or ride a bike? If you do neither, then you use OIL ... OIL is a strategic resource this country NEEDS to function. Did we protect Kuwait because they had oil .. OF COURSE! Does that make it immoral and wrong ... NO! And it is the same STUPID argument the Liberals made in 1990 ... do you understand that we had COMPLETE contol of the oil fields after the gulf war ... COMPLETE control (well after we put out the fires that Saddam set) and we GAVE THEM BACK! We do not have ANY control over ANY oil fields in the Middle East .. but I thought the Peace cry was “War for Oil” “This war is only about Oil ... ” Well we did a great job getting that oil in 1990 didn’t we!
Peace!
Posted by Nathan on Feb 13, 2003 at 8:44 PM
<<<<it really isn’t that difficult to have the upper hand when exchanging points with someone who can’t recall a single instance of american agression within the last 200 years and further boldly makes the claim “America has NEVER been the aggressor.” >>
Oh and I should clarify ... because maybe you missed my original point ... I said UNWARRANTED aggression ... remember my example was “Hey! Canada is just sitting there ... lets invade” give me an example of THAT! We always go to war to protect or defend ... never to conquer.
Posted by Nathan on Feb 13, 2003 at 8:55 PM
You are either 13, naiive, both, or just mean.
NONE of these arguments, at least mine, you slow to fiure out person, have been about past wars. You take everything out of context. You’re trying to get people’s ire up and you’re just being kind of a jerk about it.
You seem to have something against diversity, tolerance and negotiations. What do you hate us black people? Huh? By the way, Jesus was black and he has compassion, accepts diversity, is tolerant and is against war.
We’re not being threatened in this war, but you sure have swallowed the Republican lies. How naiive.
Posted by Patrick on Feb 13, 2003 at 9:25 PM
what’s the point for me of continuing this thread? you’ve already given me way more credibility than i deserve. you’ve proven yourself consistently limited in your analysis of history. i was like that once myself.
i only hope that you are in your early 20s and just starting out in life and think that being a republican or being a bush supporter is cool for some reason. that’s not to say that republicanism as a political party is bad. lincoln was a republican.
but your concept of politics and foreign affairs is regional in scope and limited to cnn’s interpretation of the world for you. if i give you the examples that you ask for, i would be doing you a disservice since you would quickly dismiss the answers without careful analysis for yourself. why don’t you do yourself a favor and pick up a book from your local library? i’ll bet you haven’t been there in a while.
ask the librarian for some political books on war covering the last 50 years. even if you should choose a book that’s pro-war, it would at least have chapters that try to counter criticisms of past u.s. actions during wars. at the very least, this would be a start of initiating some balance in your views of the world.
in the mean time, thanks for the ego boost you provide me and others with your postings. thanks.
Posted by d lee on Feb 13, 2003 at 9:29 PM
I wonder how many people will actually read this far down the list…
If the “game” that we need to learn to play is called “Learn to share this planet without destroying it or each other” then we need a new strategy.
Here is a hint: there are no sides. There is no competition. There is only Us, no Them. We just think that there is. We live and believe that there is a Them.
Yes, it looks and feels and sounds like there is a Them. But as long as we live by that illusion the “game” can never be won.
Yes, there are people who think in the directly opposite direction from us. From what I see and hear our country is almost divided in two, but hopefully not yet broken in two.
Yes, there are people who hate us and want to kill us and, yes, there are people in charge of this country whom we don’t trust for a second. It is pretty scary.
They are still Us.
The more we play this game as if there is no Them and the better we get at it the more other people will catch on and finally learn to play this game.
We have to start treating Everybody as an Us. It won’t be easy. It is easier to mock, hurt and dismiss. But I believe we will be wonderfully creative players, coming up with outstanding ways of living together as Us.
This game is an action game but it is a more a game of the heart and mind.
Our actions are important but more important is what we believe. It has to begin now. Just where you are now begin thinking and believing in Us.
(Maybe by not flaming the flamers, much as they piss you off! The game is bigger than that, of course. But in those small places we begin.)
I believe we can learn to be masters at this the hardest, best game. There are clues left for us. Look for them everywhere. Look for others who have caught on already.
We can learn to play well and play for keeps. No one wins unless we ALL win. Just imagine it.
Posted by sharon tiplady on Feb 13, 2003 at 11:05 PM
Sharon from Alaska: that was very well put! Look for leaders who have a larger view of “us”, who embrace “internationalism” which is the only “ism” that will promote world peace. “Us” will prevail because the illusion of separateness and duality is false.
Posted by Louis on Feb 14, 2003 at 6:35 AM
This is the article I told you about Roduska.
Jamie
Posted by Roduska Rosales on Feb 14, 2003 at 7:31 AM
Did George really deserve a “C” for this quotation? I ripped it off from the “365 Stupidest Things Ever Said” desk calendar (Workman Publishing):
On political speeches, confusing:
“I want to keep the peace, to keep the peace. When I was coming up, with was a dangerous world, you knew exactly who they were. It was us versus them and it was clear who the them was. Today we are not so sure who they are, but we know they’re there.”
George W. Bush, talking about how the world has changed since the Cold War
Posted by Laurence Hudson on Feb 14, 2003 at 7:33 AM
Most American students are graded on a letter scale: A, B, C, D, F. A is superior work, F is failing. A “C student” is a mediocre student. and this defines Bush’s grades in Yale and his prior education.
Posted by Reply to "I" on Feb 14, 2003 at 9:32 AM
<<what’s the point for me of continuing this thread? you’ve already given me way more credibility than i deserve. you’ve proven yourself consistently limited in your analysis of history. i was like that once myself. >>
Well it is pretty obvious now that you actually can’t make an argument ... ta ta
Hey everybody have fun hugging each other as once again America will end up doing the right thing and saving the world from evil ...
Peace!
Posted by Nathan on Feb 14, 2003 at 4:49 PM
oh you mean making compelling arguments like “yawn” or “ta ta”?
even if america does save the world from some evil existent or non-existent, it certainly doesn’t need to thank any armchair citizen cheerleaders that are so plentiful here.
based on your immaturity, you certainly seem to be of military age. why haven’t you signed up for frontline service yet? at least most everybody have a lot more respect for servicemen who are actually putting their lives on the line as oppose to some chickenhawk cheering in their living room.
oh i forgot. these are bush war supporters. chickenhawks are the “in” thing for this administration.
Posted by d lee on Feb 14, 2003 at 7:05 PM
“Hey everybody have fun hugging each other as once again America will end up doing the right thing and saving the world from evil ... “
A nice bit of optimism, chum. Tomorrow will indeed be a big day for Americans and the millions of world citizens who will be marching for peace and demanding the impeachment of the treasonous bastards who have plunged the world into evil darkness. We’ll certainly be doing the right thing—hope to see you out there with us, friend, “doing the right thing”.
Posted by Lovin' Sam on Feb 14, 2003 at 7:18 PM
It is so important that we move away from the current popular notion that it’s good to be jaded, and it’s hip to be hopeless; while telling ourselves, “well, I can’t change a damn thing anyway!” We need to move on to a new age of comtemplative action based on high ethical standards that demonstrate that American thinking will only change if we stop being passive non-participants—standing in the background while shaking our heads. We need to learn that we can receive satisfaction from active involvement, and even that small satisfaction is well worth the effort. And hoping that each of those small actions, added together, just might make a difference.
Thank you, Mr. Vonnegut. I am so happy that you’re still inciting action.
Posted by Marilyn Mock on Feb 14, 2003 at 8:38 PM
If so many are opposed to this, with or without UN OK’, wherein lies our beloved democracy? Is this the new path to freedom we will bring Iraq? One despot for another? Strike the word democracy from our vocab. It never existed.
Posted by Mike Channell on Feb 14, 2003 at 9:29 PM
If the Government’s indictment appeared on Law and Order, there’d be a struggle between D.A. and staff as to whether they should ask for a straight up guilty verdict or guilty because of PP mental disease. What’s so great about Mr. Vonnegut’s interview is that he hasn’t told us what to do. Make up your own mind, seems to be pretty apparent.. he would just like to suggest that again (remember your history because they don’t) the Royals may be demonstrating the effects of mental disease. Vonnegut’s writing has always suggested endless possibilities, that outcome need not be confined to present reality. So, if applied specifically here, A-students might remind themselves that reality is only a consensus of opinion. Thank you, Mr. Vonnegut, you are the perfect person to remind us to think for ourselves in order to leap out of this box.
Posted by M.L. Katis on Feb 15, 2003 at 1:48 PM
My age,.. My kind of guy My Sentiments!.....
Posted by A. Foti on Feb 15, 2003 at 2:57 PM
I am hurt! ... No, not really. Just about what I expected a bunch of dumb shit fascist repubbers to say about Kurt . . . and me. Here’s one more in your fucking faces for you goose-strutting arrogant swine.
Bush has his Axis of Evil: Iraq, Iran, North Korea.
I think we liberals need to come up with an axis of our own. It could be, say,
THE AXIS OF ASSHOLES: Bush, Cheney, Powell, Rumpsfelt (misspelled on purpose—har! har!), Rice, Limpballs (hee! hee!), Ingraham, Fox News, Hannity, Coulter, Ken Lay, Dennis Koslousy (ho! ho!), and all the morons who support this great crowd of excremental whores, etc. etc. etc.—the list is long—there’s a humongous pile of turds stinking up this country now.
And here’s a little poem to celebrate them in all their glorious foul-smelling turdishness:
“A Backside Ballad” (concerning that part of their anatomies the Bush Administration and their cronies think with and the malodorous stuff produced therefrom)
Those who fart in Whitehouse walls
Roll their shit in great big balls.
Those who believe the Limbaugh wit
Love to eat those balls of shit.
Those of us who live with them
Are forced to eat and sigh, “A-hem!”
Let’s stop and stand and shout, “Not me!”
Sling some back and laugh, “Tee hee!”
Did someone up there say something about tolerance? No more Mr. nice guy. That business a couple of years ago in Florida and The Supreme Kangaroo Court cut it.
Posted by Charles M. Ashley on Feb 15, 2003 at 11:47 PM
bush is all that and worse ..
Posted by Ali on Feb 16, 2003 at 3:19 AM
Tolerance? That is finished! Time to draw a line in the sand. 10 million protesting in over 600 cities yesterday and not one word about it in the media? Anyone who thinks we don’t live in a Stalinesque communist-style dictatorship is out of his mind. This is not the time for pacifism-I never owned a gun in my life but I’m going to get one and learn to shoot like Wyatt Earp and I encourage all former pacifists to do the same. We’ll talk pacifism after the stinkin’ aura of totalitarianism has been eradicated and we won’t forget who supported the stink!
Posted by Brian on Feb 16, 2003 at 8:33 AM
Before I get back in the faces of dittoheads MJ, Andrew, Jason, and myriad others of their illiterate ilk, I actually have a question for Kurt Vonnegut.
My question (actually several questions) is how is it that such blockheads as MJ, Andrew, and Jason continue to support His Illegitimacy George II after His seemingly infinite lies and deceptions, most recently exemplified by Colon Bowel’s fraudulent report to the U.N.? (Didn’t we just impeach a president for lying?) The dittoheads (how ironically appropriate they should so name themselves) claim to read newspapers and advise you to do so. These lies have been reported, though not widely so. How is it then that such literate people as these have missed the reports of George Bush lying under oath in a 1998 lawsuit, of the paper trail concerning his probable insider trading while he was at Harken Oil, sitting on the auditing committee no less? Could it be the kind of selective attention I noticed in many of my students in beginning comp, particularly in the C and below-students? Maybe it’s just that all their reading is in The New York Post (Rupert Murdock’s trash rag), USA Today, and The Washington Times (owned by the Moonies—by whom George Bush Senior and Barbara have been paid healthy stipends for speeches given to Moony groups in South America—how appropriate that the Moonies and their brainwashing should come into the mix here), and maybe listening to Limbaugh and his endless list of clones for the swill and name-calling they ladel out so generously on talk radio, and spending many hours watching Fox News and their “fair and balanced” (ha!) reporting and “perspicacious”(tisk!)commentary? Mostly rhetorical questions, but I would like a response from your penetrating mind. It’ll give you ample opportunity to respond in the way only Kurt Vonnegut can—like Mark Twain on acid.
Now back to dittoheads MJ, Andrew, Jason, etc. etc. etc. good, simple, goose-strutting brownshirts all, for a bit more of the Rabelaisian: I am terribly sorry I did not include you numbnuts in The Axis of Asshole, together with Tom Delay, Asshole Hutchison, and Henry Hyde-the-Salami. You deserve special mention in that huge pile of turds. For without ciphers like you guys, Gee Whizz simian-face wouldn’t be the prez and we wouldn’t be preparing to cause the annihilation of the world. With friends like you fellas, who needs the Republican Guard? Gee thanks, Guys!
Posted by Charles M. Ashley on Feb 16, 2003 at 11:10 AM
Fabulous article! I have adored Vonnegut’s writing since reading ‘Cat’s Cradle’ in Jr. High. I’m glad to see ‘Inthesetimes’ print an interview with him. I think many people will be encouraged to see that they are not alone in doubting the motives of our government in their crusade to occupy and control the natural resources of the middle east. I was also pleased to see Robert Redford come out recently with an article encouraging our country to reduce our dependance on foriegn oil. We have the technology to develope a hydrogen infrastructure in the US, and doing so will employ thousands enabling our faltering economy to thrive. The more celebrities and intellectuals who take a stand against our dependance on oil and corporate inspired warmongering the better. Thank you ‘IntheseTimes’ and Kurt Vonnegut!
Posted by gj on Feb 16, 2003 at 12:43 PM
I trust what Kurt Vonnegut says. He goes straight and tough to the heart of the matter. No one has provided me with a better way to understand Dr Condoleesa Rice.
Posted by Helen Macrae on Feb 16, 2003 at 4:53 PM
<<Tolerance? That is finished! Time to draw a line in the sand. 10 million protesting in over 600 cities yesterday and not one word about it in the media?>>
Then you would have missed the fact that the US was the only nation to use overt violence against the demonstrators….....Colorado and New York.
And while I’m at it…......Why is the US, “the great defender of democracy”, bullying and insulting some of the most stable democratic nations in the World…....whose policies reflect those of their people?
Posted by Marlene on Feb 16, 2003 at 8:46 PM
<<Tolerance? That is finished! Time to draw a line in the sand. 10 million protesting in over 600 cities yesterday and not one word about it in the media?>>
Then you would have missed the fact that the US was the only nation to use overt violence against the demonstrators….....Colorado and New York.
And while I’m at it…......Why is the US, “the great defender of democracy”, bullying and insulting some of the most stable democratic nations in the World…....whose policies reflect those of their people?
Posted by Marlene on Feb 16, 2003 at 8:46 PM
kurt vonnegut for president!!!!
Posted by jamie on Feb 17, 2003 at 10:03 AM
This absolutely genuine and inspiring. Thank you Mr Vonnegut for expressing the views of so many young Americans in Universities throughout this country. I and so many others take pride in studying and appreciating the history and nature of this world. You indeed were correct in stating those in power are by nature comfortable with making ill advised decisions. “...is that they are so decisive. Unlike normal people, they are never filled with doubts, for the simple reason that they cannot care what happens next. Simply can’t. Do this! Do that!” If only we were capable of having intellectuals with this capacity for decisive leadership, wait is that even possible? And round we go…ghopefully, generations from now our future world will be studying these works for peace and examine why those in power chose to ignore the consequences of their actions. Thank you again, I’ll be passing on word of this article.
Posted by NS on Feb 18, 2003 at 7:21 AM
Thursday, Feb 20, I’m holding an anti war demonstration On the square of Gainesville, GA. Anyone who can come, please do. This article is straight forward, and unfortunately, true. We are fucked. Bush is part of the vast and overpowering Christian right. There are good Christians, and they are as opressed by their religion as the rest of us. Good article. Very insightful.
Posted by Max L on Feb 18, 2003 at 8:06 PM
Well said, Kurt! Thanks so much for having the courage to say what so few have said! I have been in despair for so long that I am seriously considering asylum in another country. Few people remember that Ben Franklin was put in prison when he was 79. He disagreed with the gov too! JW
Posted by Juanita Wood on Feb 19, 2003 at 12:08 AM
Hi Mr. Vonnegut!
Your comments, to say the least, are right on target. My novel, War News From Mount Oligarch, takes aim at the military-industrial complex and the spineless politicians who cater to it! Wish I could find someone to actually read it—it has an important message for Americans in these trying times.
Posted by Mike Mitchell on Feb 19, 2003 at 11:34 AM
I thought that Kurt Vonnegut’s comments were right on, I enjoyed reading this interview immensely.
Posted by Mike Kooshki on Feb 19, 2003 at 6:09 PM
Kurt Vonnegut’s view resonate with me. I share them. We are 8 years apart in age. No doubt being age mates and having lived through WWII,the Korean War, etc (although from diffferent vantage points) has influenced our views.
I love it when the famous and I are ‘on the same page’.
Posted by Laurel M. Linklater on Feb 19, 2003 at 7:22 PM
Reading the interview with Kurt Vonnegut, there was a lot of nodding in agreement. His outlook and, as I see it, clear eyed view of the American scene resonates and makes sense. How I would like our government to make as much!
Posted by Laurel M. Linklater on Feb 19, 2003 at 7:25 PM
Thought you might like this.
Em
Posted by emily blosser on Feb 19, 2003 at 8:26 PM
it is a exaple of life
Posted by martin Unzueta on Feb 20, 2003 at 10:08 AM
Whoever read the prologue to SLAPSTICK should know the person who was interviewed here is nowhere near insensitive.
thank you for careing.
Posted by Jaime Guerra on Feb 20, 2003 at 12:20 PM
Wonderfull to find you. Such a clever deep and courageous speech! From far the best explanation to understand in the middle of this broken out madness whats really going on.
The only thing in return I can give to you, is a little hollyday on my website I paint a kind of a hymne to earth:
www.edda-soerensen.de
enjoy and from my heard:thanks.
Edda
Posted by Edda S?rensen on Feb 20, 2003 at 12:31 PM
Heh heh. PPs. Heh heh. Pee-Pees. Heh heh. He called them “dicks”. Heh heh. Heh.
Posted by Beavis on Feb 21, 2003 at 8:23 AM
I’m proud to say that much of my world view was (and still is) informed by the writings (and rantings!) of Sir Kurt. Thanks to him I strive to attain the status of planetary citizenship.
Posted by Fred Dillon on Feb 21, 2003 at 9:29 PM
Somebody here can play this “game”,
just not the ones’ in power!
Posted by Brian Foti on Feb 22, 2003 at 1:38 PM
Great! Heartening, wonderful to see one’s own thoughts in the words of a well-known and respected artist. It is hard to bear the dimension of rage one feels toward The Bush Entourage. When we can share ideas, and gather more light from someone like Kurt, we can go on and hope for some better days. I’m working my way through Barbara Tuchman’s The Guns of August and it’s chilling to see how we are still in the shadow of the late 19th and early 20th c madness. We must keep working so that the world isn’t in the grip of fools. Thanks! Carry on!
Posted by Kate Walsh on Feb 22, 2003 at 9:09 PM
voice of reason…
Posted by lena j. youm on Feb 22, 2003 at 9:28 PM
Impeach Bush
Posted by Paul Mohney on Feb 23, 2003 at 9:51 AM
A note on the Christian thing…
Quite honestly, I think that the ideas of Christianity have traveled far from what Christ intended them to be.
The people in the Government are power hungry, thoughtless millionairs.
I mean really people! Look at the government.
And I loved that comment about satirists.
——- A northern atheist in an over
Posted by annon the first on Feb 23, 2003 at 12:25 PM
“Psychopathic personalities” - How perfectly this diagnosis describes Bush and Co. I have had a kind of sick, frightened feeling with this administration unlike any other I have experienced in my 50 years.
Thank you Kurt for maintaining your integrity and remembering, as you put it, that artists serve humanity not individual nations, religions or ideologies!
Please remain “unstuck in time.”
Carol Gilio
Posted by Carol A. Gilio on Feb 23, 2003 at 6:04 PM
I have tears in my eyes from laughing. As grim and true as everything I read is, I am uplifted like I haven’t been in ages. Many thanks. Always did adore Mr. Vonnegut!
Posted by Jeanne Klepper on Feb 24, 2003 at 11:04 AM
I have tears in my eyes from laughing. As grim and true as everything I read is, I am uplifted like I haven’t been in ages. Many thanks. Always did adore Mr. Vonnegut!
Posted by Jeanne Klepper on Feb 24, 2003 at 11:04 AM
It’s time to throw the scoundrels out! I agree with Former Attorney General Ramsey Clark and urge you to go to http://www.votetoimpeach.org join your voice with ours.
Posted by jpvance on Feb 24, 2003 at 1:04 PM
I am a musician who loves Kurt Vonnegut’s work. My dear departed Dad loved it, too. I am glad to know that Kurt approves of my profession. Sometimes it seems to me that making beautiful music may be an unsafe escape from an increasingly frightening present reality. I’m glad to see Kurt is still kicking and making his commonsense views public. It’s good to know there are still sane people in the USA. The pp’s ets. are some of why we emmigrated to Australia. Unfortunately it is not so easy to escape America’s sphere of influence. If there is another dumb war Australia will be in it, too. No where is safe.
Posted by Glenn E. Henrich on Feb 25, 2003 at 4:44 AM
Yes, Reality TV is cheap to make, easy to promote and provides a consderable profit margin. It just takes a Howard Stern (yes, some of us in Canada are still shocked) attitude and some degenerate C student who can only see profit rather than a bigger picture. By the way, do you realize that even if the majority of Americans demended your president step down, he wouldn’t? Ahhh the joys of Imperialism. Pay more taxes and LIKE IT!
Posted by Proud Canuck on Feb 25, 2003 at 12:49 PM
And a note for Mr. Vonnegut, I finished Slaugherhouse Five last Friday, my first encounter with your work after having completed and English B.A. Yours was novel that was truly a pleasure to engage at this point in time, Thnak you
Posted by Proud Canuck on Feb 25, 2003 at 12:54 PM
I know exactly why the ‘C student crowd’ has risen to the top:
*Shit floats*
Thanks Kurt! Keep hammering away at these idiots!
Posted by Bob W. on Feb 26, 2003 at 2:29 PM
From Australia…...
..... where the politicians are just as crappy (yes, we want to be just like the USA).
I see that Dan Rather interviewed Saddam Hussein the other day. Saddam expressed a desire to debate GWB head to head on TV.
Now you are talking! Let’s see the chickenhawks put up or shut up. Given enough public pressure, your administration would not be able to wriggle out of a real live debate.
What is the alternative? That GWB is a coward? NO! Not possible, surely?
Put pressure on CBS… make it happen.
Let’s see George go smoke ‘em out… if he dares.
Love from Australia… Chris.
Posted by Chris Shaw on Feb 26, 2003 at 11:31 PM
Excellent article. I wonder if the C_student-in-chief hadn’t been AWOL from the last war would he be so anxious to start a new war?
Posted by hod_carrier on Feb 27, 2003 at 1:07 PM
Thank you once again, Mr. Vonnegut, for speaking so eloquently for so many.
Posted by Mike on Feb 27, 2003 at 2:02 PM
Fine to hear so many Americans talking like this.
Posted by Lukas Neubert on Feb 28, 2003 at 5:58 AM
How about a follow-up interview? I’m curious to know what Kurt thinks about the recent protests.
Posted by Ziggy K on Feb 28, 2003 at 11:27 AM
Truly a great American who is exercising that important value, or was important up until recently, of criticizing our leaders. Vonnegut is right on the money when it comes to politics.
Posted by Ian Taylor on Feb 28, 2003 at 9:26 PM
Bluebeard will always be my favorite book.
Reading KV makes my blood pump faster and mind wheel harder. This interview is really great, and it’s always inspiring to hear the voice behind the masterful stories. Thank you “In These Times”!
Posted by Beth Walker on Mar 2, 2003 at 4:04 PM
Please check out my regularly updated website on Iraq. The more I read, the more scared I become, and I’ve compiled the scariest bits right here.
http://uk.geocities.com/heffalump3/iraq.htm
Posted by Jonathan Crossfield on Mar 3, 2003 at 12:05 AM
Here’s to Kurt!
Posted by Chris on Mar 3, 2003 at 10:28 AM
Adding “Top Secret” No Need to Know (Science Security) to the Poets’ and Artists perception equation, may blow your mind sky high, regarding humanity’s rights to Freedom and Unlimited, Sustainable, Prosperity - for all, not just Kenneth Lay, al la carte.
Kurt’s
Posted by DeCatalyst on Mar 3, 2003 at 12:21 PM
I love Vonnegut! At 80 he has lost
none of his humor, wit, or sanity.
Thanks for printing this interview.
Charlotte
Posted by Charlotte Berger on Mar 3, 2003 at 2:03 PM
Have just been reading the posts and mostly enjoying the articulate, humane responses to Mr. Vonnegut’s brilliant remarks. However, I read several responses from New Hampshire which make me wonder if its citizens’ hearts are as stony as its soil. Please convince me otherwise.
Posted by Jeanne Klepper on Mar 3, 2003 at 9:54 PM
It is good that you put the word Christian in quotes. I think you could also add to that the ‘Jewish’ masterminds (W. & P.) who are behind the curtain in Ooozeland.. pushing the little Bush buttons, ever since the other Bush buttons, with plans that out-distance the good ‘ol US of A.
Posted by Claui Smith on Mar 4, 2003 at 7:48 AM
Thanks for printing this interview.
I agree to Mr. Vonnegut
From Russia, with love
Webmaster of http://vonnegut.by.ru
Posted by Alexey on Mar 4, 2003 at 2:58 PM
Vonnegut has made some pretty good points here. and a lot fo this stuff is what most people dont have the balls to say. being from texas i am around narrow minded conservatives all of the time. its unfortunate that we have a bareky functioning joke of a beurocracy in the united states. thats not to say that democrats are the good guys. i would say more the lesser of two evils. sure saddam huesen is a horrible person. but we really do need the support of our allies. and the so-called “respect of amaricas power” that other cuontries are supposed top have for us to prevent wars is arrogant and pretty close to being a dictatoral statement. i mean anyone and i mean anyone whos ever spent time in other developed countries like europe will realized how flawed our country is. i mean we have a bunch of white lazy crackerass businessmen who tell minoritys who work there asses off to support their family’s that they will not be able to work there way as far as a white person could. my mother used to run a gardening business that had mainly hispanic employees and i can tellu there were many guys who worked hard to support there familys but will never be able to be an exec of a corporation but a lazy ass rich frat boy will automatically be able to b/c hes white. there may not be any laws that govern racial prejedice but believe me its very alive. and at teh same time you have these same rich people who granted work hard but would rather laugh at a starving poor person than give there tax dollors to create an economy where people are equal and there is no poverty, little crime, and great equality. i think thats pretty fucked up. amarica i ranked about 12 in the world asz far as standar of living. greatest nation in the world my ass.
Posted by Jason on Mar 4, 2003 at 9:17 PM
Kurt…you and all the assholes commenting here are the Martians…If America sucks it is because of you…
Posted by Terrence A. Abernathy on Mar 5, 2003 at 2:59 PM
Last attempt ! [For Today]
Kurt Vonnegut is a fiction writer with an undeniable ability to make the readers believe what they are reading is real .
That is a trait of a master wordsmith .
People who addendum crass wiseacre comments in a deluded belief they are exercising some spurious form of “freedom of speech” , are people with tiny minds unable to appreciate or comprehend the big wide world outwith their narrow minded view . And would prove themselves incapable of stringing sixteen words together - verbally - that DID NOT include a cuss or crude expletive .
Their “creativity” starts and ends whilst sat on the toilet evacuating their bowels .
They have no concept of the effort needed nor the trials and tribulations involved in the very solitary process of novel writing , never having made any valid genuine or sustained attempt to appreciate any perspective with parameters beyond the confines of the small corridor along which their pathetic and self-destructive existence never ventures beyond .
They would be the last people to understand that artists like Kurt are straining every nerve and sinew to try to liberate those self same tortured souls from the prisons of their own making : trying to help them see , feel and breathe outside the hell-hole they would have everybody else die in .
Michael Bartholomew
7 March 2003
Lets hope the grmilns faal thys thyme !!!
Posted by Michael Bartholomew on Mar 7, 2003 at 7:50 AM
How did a fucking retarded chimpanze become the leader of the country that claims the top spot as the biggest polluter and user of our dear planet Mother Earth? Answer that correctly and you get a free 4-year scholarship to Yale!!
Posted by Jon on Mar 7, 2003 at 7:53 AM
I regret that assholes are not yet an endangered species.
Posted by Mike Shandrick on Mar 7, 2003 at 2:43 PM
When Vonnegut says, “M.A.S.H. and Law and Order, to name only two shows, have been stunning masterpieces in that regard,” [fine art] I am saddened since I and the original writer of the book think M.A.S.H. as depicted on TV is pure crap! There were no people like those shown on TV in the book and I never saw one MASH unit that remotely looked and acted like the silly shits in the TV version. Tell V. he doesn’t have to worry anymore about MASH becoming a TV drama or ever classified as fine art. It is without any value except for those sadomasochists who want to increase their radioactivity levels looking at that insane boob tube. I don’t give a damn how “popular” people say it is. They don’t know the differenve between chicken shit and chicken salad.
Posted by Blake Mooney on Mar 7, 2003 at 3:40 PM
Wonderful to share the thinking of a brain that shines like a laser on the truth. Unfotunately, all he or any of us can do is point the way, and hope that someone sees.
Posted by Cynthia Harmon on Mar 7, 2003 at 3:53 PM
Who wants war? In Iraq they would show their appreciation for Mr.Vonnegut by straping him down and shoving Franny and Zooey down his throat a page at a time. As was the fate of several great Iraqi poets. I feel the indifference of “pacifism” turns a blind eye on a whole lot of human rights violations and continues to see their hate of dubbya instead of saddam a murderous asshole. Who the hell wouldn’t want saddam out of Iraq. Who the hell wouldn’t want to see a country make a step toward freedom. War for oil? Are you kidding me? What do you drive or ride? Are you plastic free?
Posted by Joe Frank on Mar 7, 2003 at 4:19 PM
Forwarded by a friend—really great interview. I especially like the explanation as to how so many PPs have come to power. Thanks.
Posted by diane king on Mar 7, 2003 at 4:55 PM
Kurt Vonnegut is my HERO!
Posted by Liz Riggs on Mar 8, 2003 at 9:50 AM
Everyone bitches ,as the world turns. KV and other great persons like him ,have twisted the eyes of man open . Now that we are beginning to see what is really happening ,what are we going to do about it?I for one suggest that we stick all the assholes on a big boat ,send them out to sea ,with NO FOOD, and let them EAT each other!
Posted by Ron on Mar 8, 2003 at 10:31 AM
Yes, everything you say is true, but the people who need to see this spend their time reading the Enquirer and Star or watching CNN, NBC or FOX - the “C” students from life, the ones who are too lazy - too fearful - or just too greedy to want to see or hear. Are those people even reachable?
Posted by Jeanne Larson on Mar 8, 2003 at 10:54 PM
I agree with the assertion made concerning the feeling “that our country might as well have been invaded by Martian’s and body snatchers,” when describing the take-over of this country “by means of the sleaziest, low-comedy, Key Stone Cop-style coup d’etat imaginable.” To say that these “upper-crust C-student’s, plus not -so-closeted white supremacist, aka “Christian’s,” and plus, more frighteningly, Psychopathic Peronalities”, lack any experience of history and geography of the world, would only cloud us more from the truth. These folk’s have an agenda, and world dominance is the name of their game. With this phenomenon of September11/01, the present administration will use it as a blank-check to accomplish this agenda. It is my personal belief that this effort is an evil impetus of *Religion,* of the Far Right. It is an everpresent disfigurement in the heart of mankind, a corruption that could spell the end of civilization in its intolerance, of all mankind in its savage murderousness and predation, and of the earthitself in its unrestrained exploitation. And these nice folk’s currently occupy the highest levels of the Republican Congress,and are our most famous religious “leaders.” In Dec./01, the Attorney General John Ashcroft made the pronouncement that if any religious groups are involved with Terrorist’s, they could expect to be visited by agent’s of the U.S. I hope Mr Ashcroft puts the Vatican among this list, for these are the folk’s who wrote the *Book on Terrorism.* In closing, I would say with Spinoza,” Only the ignorant (those who don’t know) are ever the most audacious, and bold, and ready to rush into print. The Christian’s seem to expose their ware’s for sale, like huckster’s, who always show first that which is worst. The devil is said to be very cunning, but to my thinking the tricks of these people are in cunning far beyond his.” Further, only reason will bring to a holt, the spontaneous, the non-logical, and the violent *Play for Power,* which actuates the universe, and modivates human conduct. Again, any Anti-War protestation should be conducted in the same manner as that of Martin Luther King, during the civil-rights of the 60’s. That being a protest of “non-violence.” My hope is that we are not too late!
Posted by Richard C. Foster on Mar 9, 2003 at 12:47 AM
I think Joe Frank got’s the wrong idea, as do the entire lot of people you could lump into the “ignoramus” category. It’s not that it’s a “War for Oil,” perhaps it’s is moreso that as Americans living in a democratic society, we are entirely left in the dark as to what we are going to war for. Not to mention, regardless of whatever reason, the lives of many innocent people will be taken for whatever purpose we are fighting this war. I guess you can equate liberation from tyranny with death, but what is a greater human rights violation? If you didn’t get KV’s message, you can move to Iraq after the bombs rain down and Saddam’s regime is toppled. Then we can argue about what was best for the Iraqi population. It seems to me if we could track down Osama Bin Laden with satellites equipped with voice recognition technology and pinpoint almost precisely his location, we could overthrow Saddam’s evil regime through covert operations and intelligence without entirely devastating all of Iraq’s infrastructure and food and energy supplies. The demographics of the country should be enough reason to prevent us from an all out assault on Iraq. Sure we’ll try to limit civilian casualties, but one way or another, hundreds of thousands, if not millions of Iraqis will die in this war. And for what? There’s a good chance it’s for the oil, but what if it’s not? Does it really matter?
By the way, we might use gasoline and plastic and things that are harmful for our environment… but any environmentally conscious person knows their limitations and practices conservatism to the fullest of their capabilities.
Another observation: is it me or does anyone with anything intelligent to say lean a little to the left on this issue? It’s amazing to see the response to this article, as I’m sure no one will read this being that it is at the bottom of 5 pages of comments…....... DISSENT IS OUR ONLY LIBERTY LEFT—- SPEAK OUT OR BE LEFT OUT!!!!!
Posted by Dtrain on Mar 9, 2003 at 11:26 AM
I have to say, there’s nothing about being a C-student that implies Assholedom or even Idiocy. Many really brilliant people don’t do well in school, some don’t even attend. However, Dubya has NO EXCUSE. At Ivy league universities (and i speak from personal experience) grades are so fucking inflated that a C is more like a D or F. no joke. To get a C (at least, as is the case now at Columbia) you really have to do very little in terms of study. The mean for most classes is around a B with curve…. At the same time, being a Rhodes scholar and studying at Oxford doesn’t guarantee anything either (see: Mr. Hillary Clinton)
Posted by aaron b on Mar 9, 2003 at 1:06 PM
Mr. Vonnegut makes his point as delicately as ever. I’ll aqgree to pacify if anyone (be it C Yale students or American Socialists) can convince me that the powers that be will not use VX, Anthrax, Smallpox or Serin against those closest to me. I am as of yet unconvinced that such restraint will be used by al-Qaeda. I am, however, convinced that if Saddam would use such horrible agents on people of his own country, that he would provide them to those who would use them against ours. I wonder if Kurt Vonnegut has ever embraced a child killed by Serin gas (like the thousands in northern Iraq). I wonder if he would maintain such convictions if he were to embrace his 20 year old daughter after a VX attack.
If I were a betting man, I would not put money on this comment being posted. I would be naive to believe that my contrary opinion would be posted on a site that speaks so highly of free-speech yet prints only one side of an argument. But Nazi Germany and Stalinist Soviet Union have provided an excellent blue print for one sided arguments. I’m not a betting man, and so I’m not willing to bet that Saddam Hussien will not use Serin gas against my 13 year old brother or Kurt’s 20 year old daughter. For that reason I will support any asshole brave enough to pacify Iraq.
Posted by J Thompson on Mar 9, 2003 at 4:20 PM
Vonnegut is one of the only men alive that deserves every ounce of fame and respect to which he is credited. Thank you for printing this article, reaffirming my believe that he is one of the most profound minds of all time.
Posted by Carl on Mar 9, 2003 at 11:37 PM
thank you
Posted by meeshie on Mar 10, 2003 at 3:24 AM
George gives the rest of us “C students” a bad rap.
Posted by johnculjak on Mar 10, 2003 at 5:46 AM
George from Honalulu; what the bloody hell are you on about. The left losing the election-what left? Besides the only loser was democracy when dubyas dad’s cronies in the supreme court handed him power. Regarding Kurts article-nice one. Check out John Kaminsky at Rense.com for similar stuff.
Posted by Alec on Mar 10, 2003 at 8:51 AM
Hey, great interview. Listen, since you do investigative reporting - well - and don’t seem to be afraid of death, how about a story on the short-selling of stocks following 9/11? There were a dozen investigations promised, by big institutions/financial and otherwise, and not a word of who was responsible has filtered back. Isn’t that the smoking gun of the whole 9/11 attack? Or ask Kurt to do it. Hey, good luck, and thanks for your work. (A C-student is someone who consistently earns very mediocre grades in school - as Bush verifiably did)
Posted by jon on Mar 10, 2003 at 11:15 AM
!!!Kurt Vonnegut for President!!!
You’ve changed my life, sir, in ways I won’t even try to describe, but always with a light, always making it truer and more beautiful, less lonely. I love you, and I wish to thank you for your work, but I just ain’t got the words.
In deep and humble appreciation,
Rob Monk
Posted by Rob Monk on Mar 10, 2003 at 6:26 PM
Absolutely brilliant, Mr. Vonnegut.
I doubt that any person who wants war has experienced what human flesh smells like when it is burning.
Posted by Diabolique1 on Mar 11, 2003 at 12:10 AM
When I read articles like this it always brings my mind back to a question that I’ve been batting around forever and never have been satisfied with any answers that I or the rest of the world has come up with. What kind of society, given all the flaws inherent in human nature, would be the best possible solution? And I’m not talking about ideal societies such as the socialist ‘imaginings’ of John Lennon, but a real society that takes into account all of humanities’ flaws, like ugliness, hate, laziness, bad habits, power struggles, cruelty, ruthlessness, dishonesty, hypocracy, etc… What is ‘as good as it gets’? Because lets face it, none of these qualities are ever going to disappear, and we all have different combinations of them in different quantities. So what’s the best society that would have the least amount of suffering and the highest amount of happiness? Unless you have a reasonable answer to this it’s a little hard to listen to endless bitching about the world and the leaders of it. They are just ugly humans like the rest of us, and just because we are powerless hippies/bohemians/artists/working class, doesn’t make us better and doesn’t mean we’d really do any better in their place.
Posted by Roxanne Kelly on Mar 11, 2003 at 9:09 AM
Kurt speaks with admirable bluntness, insight and wit, as usual; however, e is surprisingly and unduly pessimistic about the power of protests. The protests against the war in Vietnam, inspired in part by Vonnegut and other sympathetic writers, did influence U.S policy to end the war. Protests also worked in Manila, Prague and East Berlin. In order to work, they just need to keep getting bigger and bigger. How can you ignore this, Kurt?
Posted by Gerry Potter on Mar 11, 2003 at 10:42 AM
I have just recently discovered Kurt Vonnegut as not only an author, but an artist in his own right; being that I am only 15, I find that my new discovery is not too late.
Player Piano, in my opinion, describes in great detail, basically what is happening in todays world. Only it is another country taking the radical aproach. Kurt Vonnegut, when writing Player Piano shows exceptional insight into the future of the Earth. As in Player Piano though, Iraq will be stopped, and their attempt will be noted, although in a twisted perception copied down into the history books.
We, today’s people are making history, take note, and pass the truth on to your children.
Posted by Charlie Perkins on Mar 11, 2003 at 12:10 PM
I must say though, that I oppose all acts of Anti-War on the war on iraq. I completely respect everyone’s point of view, but in my opinion, there is no need to change life as it is now, which is what Iraq is trying to do. That is why we must stop them
Posted by Charlie Perkins on Mar 11, 2003 at 12:12 PM
Thanks. It’s so hard to find reasonable opinions in this red neck city.
Posted by Josena on Mar 11, 2003 at 3:24 PM
Right on as allways a truly sane man. If thats posible.
Posted by A Howard on Mar 11, 2003 at 7:07 PM
Burn the witches! Burn the witches!
Laugh? Cry?
America Inc.?
U.S.A Co.?
Greed.
This is what our government has become. This is what must end.
I love you Kurt. Never met you, but damn do I respect you. Keep on truckin’
Posted by Matthew Hohn on Mar 12, 2003 at 10:27 AM
Dear Mr. Vonnegut
Thanks for the interest you still take in human affairs, and for taking time to share your precious thoughts with all of us here on this planet. I must admit I cried reading your interview and also reading all the responses the interview got. I really don
Posted by vincenzo on Mar 13, 2003 at 12:35 AM
It’s good to read someone comment with obvisous intelligence rather trhan just following along like a scared sheep
Posted by Larry Gratland on Mar 13, 2003 at 2:35 AM
Glad to here something from the Americans who are actually sane, because as you all may know, Bush&co; aren’t making themselves and the US all too popular in Europe, to say the least
Posted by fab on Mar 13, 2003 at 5:04 AM
Creative cynicism is always better than straight prose. I really appreciate this itnerview
Posted by jane Fried on Mar 13, 2003 at 12:12 PM
a c- student is a person in the white house who has the audacity to start a war with out a congressional declaration after becoming president by what 2 votes.
Posted by eric jones on Mar 13, 2003 at 8:38 PM
Someone once said “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good [people] to do nothing.”
War scares the hell out of me. I am trying to raise my baby boy. But by God, sometimes you need to fight for what is right.
I feel like going fetal for a few years and hoping for the best just like the rest of us, I’m sure.
Here’s the real issue: GWB or no, do we let Saddam go on his merry way and do nothing? Which scares you more?
Posted by Aly on Mar 13, 2003 at 11:56 PM
I forgot to say, I have been a huge fan of Mr. Vonnegut’s for years. I think someone else already posted this, about getting a little bit of sanity and hope out of his work.
Thank you.
Posted by Aly on Mar 13, 2003 at 11:59 PM
Bravo! Mr. Vonnegut is a genius as an artist and an author. Has our country gone completely mad? Who is the real agressor in this war? Personally I do not care who my fathers enemies are. But since he is a sandwich maker, and I as sole heir of this “fortune”, it is unlikely that the salami makers of this country will fund my personal war against Italy to control all of the salami of the world. I guess we can not all be so lucky (and salami prices will have to continue to skyrocket). I have read half of Mr. Vonneguts works and am a huge fan of his works of art. Thank you for providing the opinion of my hero.
Posted by jeffery peeno on Mar 14, 2003 at 8:04 AM
Bravo! Mr. Vonnegut is a genius as an artist and an author. Has our country gone completely mad? Who is the real agressor in this war? Personally I do not care who my fathers enemies are. But since he is a sandwich maker, and I as sole heir of this “fortune”, it is unlikely that the salami makers of this country will fund my personal war against Italy to control all of the salami of the world. I guess we can not all be so lucky (and salami prices will have to continue to skyrocket). I have read half of Mr. Vonneguts works and am a huge fan of his works of art. Thank you for providing the opinion of my hero.
Posted by jeffery peeno on Mar 14, 2003 at 8:04 AM
A great “explanation” of the PPs, who are of course incomprehensible as normal human beings. It is difficult for Americans to grasp that the federal government can have been taken over by this bunch.
Posted by BG on Mar 14, 2003 at 8:24 AM
War protest against Vietnam not Cream pie. Protest creates audience for leaks and whistle blowers, and thus raises public awareness. Iraq invasion being protested world wide, is evidence of a changing world. Small planet. Will have beneficent effect. Kurt V. is one of my heros. Without Slaughter House Five, my father would have been a mystery to me.
Still, i am one of those happy lucky idiots who is immune to cynicism…...maybe I learned that from my own Billy Pilgrim, who was always capable of leaving for the moon.
Posted by isabella russell-ides on Mar 14, 2003 at 3:38 PM
Mr. Kurt Vonnegut remains my most cherished of authors. Many thanks for not only the shear joy of entertainment but being a mentor through some very tough young years. His words are music to eyes. Unfortunately, I cannot say I have contributed much to help the earth but maybe my daughters will. Oddly enough like, the oldest is majoring in Biochemistry and the other will be majoring in Anthropology. Oh yea, about the topic at hand. The people who run things have never been very smart. However, they depend on the intellectuals to tell them what to do. Not that is it right to attack Iraq but when the fighting is all over even the French will thank us they had better. Sure we do not need nuclear weapons anymore but we are a lot less likely to use them than before the Soviet Union became Russia. We are destroying the planet at an increasing rate. I hope that we will change the way we live before it is too late. Maybe then we will be able to salvage and maybe even restore earth with technology.
Posted by Chris Simons on Mar 15, 2003 at 7:27 AM
Mr. Kurt Vonnegut remains my most cherished of authors. Many thanks for not only the shear joy of entertainment but being a mentor through some very tough young years. In my book, his novels are the greatest. His words are music to eyes.
Unfortunately, I cannot say I have contributed much to help the earth but maybe my daughters will. Oddly enough like, the oldest is majoring in Biochemistry and the other will be majoring in Anthropology. Oh yea, about the topic at hand. The people who run things have never been very smart. However, they depend on the intellectuals to tell them what to do. Not that is it right to attack Iraq but when the fighting is all over even the French will thank us they had better. Sure we do not need nuclear weapons anymore but we are a lot less likely to use them than before the Soviet Union became Russia. We are destroying the planet at an increasing rate. I hope that we will change the way we live before it is too late. Maybe then we will be able to salvage and maybe even restore earth with technology.
Posted by Chris Simons on Mar 15, 2003 at 8:39 AM
free iraq now. people are being oppressed there by a cruel and vicious man. war is a discusting thing, but it may be a neccessity at this point. i don’t expect any of you people to give a crap about what i have to say, but we don’t need another north korea. i don’t know all of the facts about what’s going on with the war, and there may be ulterior motives, but please don’t take out any anger on our soldiers the way it was done after vietnam. they are only doing their job. cynicism is contagious, so try to concentrate on the good things about this country, and this government. it’s not all bad. some of it is. very bad, but try not to get dicouraged. life is good if you want to make it that way and all persons living or dead are not purely coincidental. thank you.
Posted by kevan anderson on Mar 15, 2003 at 9:41 AM
We built bin Laden as the Mujuahadeen in Afghanistan, then he turned on us. We built Saddam to torture the Iranians who toppled the Shah we installed. We armed the Contras to overthrow a democratically elected government that rose out of the ashes of U.S. fruit companies and now they are running drugs into the U.S.
What we should be doing now is looking at groups the U.S. is militarizing now that will turn on us later on. Not only have we made our own worst enemies, but we are still making new ones. As usual, preventative measures are the establishment’s last resort.
Posted by Jerome Millay on Mar 15, 2003 at 4:50 PM
Hmm, just when it was getting more interesting it ends…
KV is one of those writers I always haerd of, and always are wanting to read but when I have a moment free to read something I never remember his name.
I have seen “Sireens of Titan” dozens of times in the shelves of the public libraries, just when I already have taken my weekly 3 books, so I say to myself “Yeah, I must remember to get this one next week”. But next week I either have to take all three allowed books from the Need-this-stuff-for-studying section or there are no more exemplars left of any KV novel.
So, it’s my first KV-Experience and I will try to get some stuff on-line ;)
BTW: Everytime I saw Kurt Vonnegut’s name in a cathalogue I thought he was German…
Posted by Enric Martinez on Mar 16, 2003 at 5:06 AM
Why is it that every immature provocatuer on every posting board on the net calls themsleves ‘jawbreaker’? and why do some people seem to think that Vonnegut’s political views are, and i quote, ‘SHIT’? What does political opinion have to do with anything anymore? look at the statistics! We are on the verge of falling backwards into the foulest smelling and deepest doodoo the human race has excreted, as always seems to be the case whenever the Republican party in america comes to power. politics be damned, this is common sense people! consider this a plea from across the pond: in britain, it doesn’t matter for shit who we vote for, because whoever is in power generally has to go along with the american government. i for one would at least like englands dictator to be saner than the primate we have holding the reigns right now. and justin? you must be very young indeed to consider KV an ignoramus. Opinion aside, the man is a very popular and influential writer, as well as an inciteful artist. And by the way, I am a C student: I am doing only adequately in History right now, although i suppose it does not matter too much- i don’t need to study the nazi’s of the past! I have the Republicans of the present to better understand… mind you, i think i have a beter understanding of military history than nathan, judging from his post full of yawns. Unwarrented American aggression? Let me think: Korea, Vietnam, and the words “My Lai”. Any asshole ‘brave’ enough to bomb the bejeesus out of a country that cannot possibly defend itself against them? sorry, I meant to say ‘pacify’ Iraq. I am all for viewing all perspectives, but I have to wonder as to why the US Govt’s view is so difficult to see rationally. I imagine that a VX attack would be horrendous. Serves us right for inventing the stuff! I forget, has Iraq said that it has anthrax or not? i am just puzzled as to why the US, which is so anxious for evidence, has no merely produced the transaction slips that must be in a vault somewhere left over from when the US sold the stuff to Hussein in the first place! There you go Powell! Problem solved! Oh, and by the way, all of you in North Korea, watch out! Guess what the subject of the next US led UN crusade will be! If we manage to wipe oursleves out in the coming century, I imagine that the Creator of the Universe will have one less problem to worry about at night. Obla-di! Obla-da! Life goes on!
Posted by Alex Hammond on Mar 16, 2003 at 12:39 PM
Wow. I’m 27 and have never read any of Vonnegut’s work, but I’m going to rush out and remedy that. Thank you, Mr. Vonnegut, for unmasking the psychopathic personalities pervading our society.
“Stop Mad-Cowboy Disease”
Posted by M.P. on Mar 17, 2003 at 10:51 AM
Hiya, Ain’t Kurt the greatest, though it is a bit ironic that they put Kurt Vonnegut day on Nov. 11, Armistice day, which Howard in Mothernight riles at being renamed for th dead of all Wars, just thought that should be pointed out,
Thanks for existing Kurt, what the Sermon on the Mount did for you, You books did for me
Posted by Bret on Mar 17, 2003 at 10:20 PM
Kurt Vonnegut is a genius, there is no denying, however his comparison of this war to Vietnam is erroneous. It is clearly more similar to WWII, where it was necessary to be involved. No one wants to go to war, including myself, however I choose to examine all sides of this problem, not just selectively listen to only the liberal aspect. People fail to keep an open mind about everything. This is not ONLY a war over oil, but also about American power, pride, and safety, therefore I strongly support the actions of our President.
Posted by Jody on Mar 18, 2003 at 11:42 AM
Wonderful interview. So many of us feel this way and I’m thankful we still have Mr. Vonnegut around to articulate it for us so well. Happy Birthday, Wanda June!
www.geocities.com/missxanna
Posted by Miss Xanna Don't on Mar 18, 2003 at 12:15 PM
I’ve been interested in Vonnegut’s works for about a year and a half now. I read The Sirens of Titan when I was 14. I am now 15 and I just finished Cat’s Cradle, which inspired me to the point at which I frequently quote the books of Bokonon. Vonnegut has truly made humanity more lively. While a few thousand people may die in Iraq today or tomorrow or sometime soon, it will always help to recognize the “granfalloonery” of GWBush. The history made by politicians and world leaders not even worth discussing. It would make us all feel alot better if we didn’t even try to make the world right.
Posted by Danny on Mar 19, 2003 at 9:18 AM
The state of affairs in this world just makes me incredibly sad and almost completely hopeless. Hearing Vonneguts words of truth, however, at least lets me know there are sain people in this world who do care. Thank you, Mr. Vonengut.
Posted by Heather Rafter on Mar 19, 2003 at 9:45 AM
Thank you—this was the best things I’ve read on the Net in a *long* time—which means it’s time for me to go out & reread your books.
To Joe, who wrote: It doesn’t really matter who does or doesn’t like us. It’s whether they respect our power that counts. That respect is what prevents wars in the long run.
Posted by: Joe on 2.1.03 | 1:12 pm from NH
Respect prevents wars, sure.
But what kind of respect do you think we are getting when we say we’re going to take Bin Laden dead or alive and then years go by while we fail to find him and he just keeps transmitting messages? Or when we say we’re attacking to enforce the policies of the U.N. even though we don’t even dare risk a vote at the U.N.—let alone when we wiretap, bribe and threaten other countries in pursuit of our non-vote? Or when we say we’ll attack evil nations which don’t have nukes, but we announce that on second thought multilateral diplomacy is the correct choice once they do have them? If that’s not a recipe for making nations go out and get themselves nuclear weapons, then I don’t know what could be.
A recipe for respect it isn’t.
Posted by Diana Jarvis on Mar 19, 2003 at 12:21 PM
thanks again Mr. Vonnegut. i’m a fan of yours for about 25 years and i suspect i’ll keep on being so as long as i’m able to think.
About the present subject, i’d like to put just 1 question to the chairmen of big enterprises (not oil or military and similar, obviously) who must be loosing money since GW Bush won the elections: what you are waiting for, you .... to get rid of that mad ... (can’t find an accurate word - in portuguese i’d say “cabr?o”) ?
Posted by jose quintas on Mar 19, 2003 at 12:42 PM
Would you have the same opinion from Uday Hussain’s RAPE ROOM or protest the war as you are sliding down, feet first, in the PLASTIC SHREDDING MACHINE? Yes, this should go on, and no one should help these people, especially the US because our government are unintelligent, corrupted and don’t care about humanity.
As long as there is a lower class, I am in it.?—You’re loaded, if you haven’t noticed.
As long as there is a criminal element, I am of it?—You’re not in jail either. Please help me understand logic.
Posted by Carlos B. on Mar 20, 2003 at 10:43 AM
First of all, Carlos, on your references to the rape room and the plastic shredding machine: Saddam went nutty when we started this war. As far as I know, and correct me if I’m wrong, the two of them were not even used until it was clear that Bush wanted Hussein out of Iraq. I don’t speak for anyone but myself, but perhaps sending your chief advisor chopped up in a body bag to his wife’s house… that might be a sign of, I dont know, pressure?
And also, what Vonnegut said about the lower class and the criminal element, that was a quote. I know he meant it to reflect his own character, but it was strictly a basic comparison. It’s rediculous to criticize the details of a quote.
Posted by Danny on Mar 21, 2003 at 9:19 AM
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Reader Comments
instead of treating the symptoms of terrorism (9/11, bali bombings, etc.), how about asking our government to treat the causes of terrorism? because with this logic to handle terrorism (axis of evil, “you’re either with us or against us”, etc.), the u.s. may have to wipe out 80% of the world to attain its goals. thank goodness for the bush administration to be in charge to enslave goodwill from our world neighbors. it’s good to be loved and to be able to travel safely throughout the world in the next 50 years after this iraqi war.
Listen….
What do Americans, British, Australians and Iraqis have in common?
1. Ignorance…. lots of it.
2. Politicians who don’t listen to their people.
3. Media that can’t question lies.
4. Idiots for leaders.
.... so you see, despite the West having clean water, cling-wrap and Playstations, none of us have the things that really matter. Isn’t that interesting?
In the name of truth check this out… the credentials are OK:
http://www.polyconomics.com/showarticle.asp?articleid=2434
Finally:
“I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones”.
Albert Einstein
Much love….. Chris Australia.
<<i do agree that peace from only one side is suicide. no wonder north korea and iran are spending so much of their resources to achieve nuclear weaponry status. it’s certain suicide for them not to do so in this political climate.>>
It absolutely amazes me how the left sides with KNOWN dictators and aggressors. North Korea ATTACKED South Korea ... do you not remember that?? How can you POSSIBLY relate the horrors of the North Korean regime to the United States of America. Do you not realize that if it weren’t for the USA there would be NO North Korea ... only Korea ... a Communist Korea ... What has happened to the Public Education system in America? ... do none of you know and understand history? ... it is SO frustrating. If Iraq and Korea are such wonderful places why don’t you pick up and go live there? It is almost like you are not even THINKING ... THINK please ... I value my freedom and with thinking like yours I will HAVE none. Do you REALLY want North Korea to have a nuclear weapon?? ... Do you really think it is OK for North Korea to have a nuclear weapon???? You must be out of your mind!
Kurt for President!
Under this administration, beautiful America has become a Demockery.
is it me or is it really true that war and peace supporters really do have a different understanding of the english language?
i write that i can understand why countries such as north korea and iran strive to attain nuclear arsenals. i get a response that i am pro north korea and pro iran.
it’s like some readers don’t quite comprehend fully what he reads but can’t contain himself to employ the usual diatribes of “why-don’t-you-go-live-there” remarks. i do agree with the rhetorical of what has happened to the public education system of this earth (assuming that the individual attended public education)? it is very frustrating. i agree!
RIGHT ON KURT !!!!!!!!!!!!
Kurt Vonnegut, a REAL American!
Breakfast of Champions, my all time favorite.
Keep fighting the GOOD fight Kurt!
“is it me or is it really true that war and peace supporters really do have a different understanding of the english language? “
It is NOT you! Whenever the right wing speaks it is always the same programmed party line which they spew out like robots, indicating their inability to think and reason. Bush has been pushing microchips which can be implanted with a flu shot, and from right-wing zombie-like diatribes I’m reading, it looks like the “programming” program is a success. Say no to vaccine!
http://homepage.mac.com/leperous/PhotoAlbum1.html
How refreshing it is to read such bold, honest, humourous, and much NEEDED commentary on the state of this country turned pathetic lap dog to ‘PP’s. It seems, sadly, that in a ‘red/white/&blue;’ frenetically myopic collective spasm, all intelligent life forms have run for cover leaving hollow marionette’s to man the controls. How pathetic! There must be a way to infiltrate the stupidity rampant today. Thank you Vonnegut for being disgusted and thank you Bleifuss for conducting this interview.
Vonnegut’s incisive delineation of our current goverment is reasurring, offering a bell of hope…....if only it could ring loud enough to awaken country out of its gross complacency, its comfortably willful ignorance, we might all feel a little more unified and look at tomorrow with a little less frightened. I’m listening. Thanks Kurt.
Kurt Vonnegut, like Nelson Mandela and earlier, Eugene Debs, is a saint of modern times, and he is also a prophet in his insightfulness. It’s too bad there aren’t more people like him and fewer like W and “Kenny Boy” Lay. And, yes, Colin Powell.
Well, at least George Bush will be out of office in a few years and maybe the next President can at least partially undo the damage he has caused. But nobody will ever undo what Kurt Vonnegut has done. He is one of the ones responsible for waking me (and many others) up, and we will never go back to sleep again.l
First, let me say that I wish a political voice as ironic, poetic and concise as Kurt Vonnegut could burst on the scene of mainstream books and media. His kind is a dying breed. Indeed, God Bless you Mr. Vonnegut!
Secondly, I have no problem in and of itself of Yale C-Students. I just wish that they would stay with cushy high paying non-essential corporate jobs. This propaganda campaign of a social and patriotic conscience portrayed in the media by and for these fools is incredibly dangerous! Its a complete and total lie to think of GWB as a great president. The man has never been held responsible for anything in his life. He blew coke up his nose until he was 40. He ran three oil companies into the ground. He fixed an election…His only real proficiency has been murder. He allowed executions for inmates where DNA evidence proved their innocence….executed a mentally retarded man…..made unflattering impersonations of a soon to be executed woman. Now, he wants bigger numbers….a slaughter of innocent people who have nothing to do with their oppressor. Meanwhile, North Korea and El Kida (spelling?) go unnoticed…..I am thankful I do not have a child 18 years of age.
Bush, however is a statesman. Here is a quote he gave to CBS news at the 1988 Republican Convention:
Reporter: What do you and your dad talk about when you are not talking politics?
Bush: Pussy.
USA! USA! USA!.....and people wonder why the world thinks of us as dirty Americans.
I have enejoyed Mr. Vonnegut’s work since the 1970’s I find that he is one of the smartest individuals on the earth, and this interview just makes the case that much more concrete. I just wish that he was here in London to join us in the biggest march ever held here (at least since VE day). Rock on, may you live another 20 years!
I have enejoyed Mr. Vonnegut’s work since the 1970’s I find that he is one of the smartest individuals on the earth, and this interview just makes the case that much more concrete. I just wish that he was here in London to join us in the biggest march ever held here (at least since VE day). Rock on, may you live another 20 years!
<<i write that i can understand why countries such as north korea and iran strive to attain nuclear arsenals. i get a response that i am pro north korea and pro iran. >>
Read again what you wrote ... how you worded it with a liberal slant ... how you said Peace from one side is suicide (twisting my words and implying that Korea is peaceful and must protect itself from the aggressive west) Notice how you TOTALLY avoided my argument about history. Give me an example in the past 200 years where the USA has said ... hmm ... that Canada (insert a country that has done NOTHING evil) would be an easy target ... let’s go invade them. America is NEVER the aggressor. My point (which you missed) is that Korea is not a peaceful country passing out flowers and giving people hugs.
... and to Louis ...um and the Left DOESN’T speak in programmed responses?? I knew exactly what Senator Kennedy was going to say about Powel’s U.N. presentation before Powel even spoke! Left Mantras:
—War for Oil (yawn)
—Bush only wants to help his oil buddies (yawn)
—Bush just wants war so he can deflect from the weak economy (yawn)
—Bush is a stupid Yale C student who is a complete idiot and avoided Vietnam anyway (yawn ... he piloted the equivalent of an Air Force F-16 in the Air National Guard ... um you can’t be TOO dumb to fly one of those ... oh and he scored about the same on the SATs as Gore did ... which is probably higher than a lot of you here did .. he got in the mid/high 1200’s .. which in the 1960s was VERY good since the test now is watered down)
—What about N. Korea .. they already have Nuclear weapons (yawn ... lack of intellect and understanding of Military strategy and history)
etc etc ...
Peace
<<He fixed an election>>
Um ... please explain exactly how he did that? You do know that he would have won Florida ANYWAY had all the votes been counted ... oh that’s right .. you may not ... because the liberal media BARELY reported the story ... remember when a bunch of newspapers went to Florida and really counted ALL the ballots with the most forgiving criteria possible ... they found that Bush would have won afterall ....
Ta ta
Very cool article. Old people have the eyes of uneasy birds. I totally agree about the Christians!
ok. let me get this straight. i meet a stranger on the streets. he is homeless. it is a cold winter. he needs to stay warm. he trespasses onto a property and thereby breaks the law. he does so to probably stay warm for the night. i learn about this and i say to myself, “yes he broke the law by trespassing but i can understand why he did it.” so by some of our reader’s comprehension of reality, i’m pro-crime. well then…guilty as charged.
there’s just so much fodder in some of these messages that if i have to sit here and respond to every one of the points, it would become a full time job. granted, i am very very tempted to respond to certain messages here point by point. unfortunately, i don’t get paid to enlighten the confused on message boards.
Right On!, old man. I only hope that at 80 (10 + years from now), I can retain a fraction of KV’s fire and anger—assuming I’m still around and/or thinking. I particularly enjoyed his PP theory. Scarily enough, he’s probably right.
Nathan,
Your “yawns” aren’t very good comebacks.
North Korea has had nukes for about 12 years.
You probably won’t like this site, but here’s a link. I might not beleive everything on here, but he talks about quite a lot of what people are finding out.
http://www.hermes-press.com/brainwash1.htm
Some say the only reason countries develop nukes in the first place is to keep from being attacked. Don’t know. I mean, if you knew somebody would unload their arsenal if you attacked them, might make them think twice.
And there’s a ton of proof about Bush and his father’s illegal and immoral dealings. Christopher just scratched the surface. And you should do your research on Kathernine Harris and the numerous counts of voter fraud in the Florida election. Yeah the tally would have come out in his favor because about 20,000 registered Democrats weren’t allowed to vote. Take that one up with the NAACP for proof.
<<And there’s a ton of proof about Bush and his father’s illegal and immoral dealings. Christopher just scratched the surface. And you should do your research on Kathernine Harris and the numerous counts of voter fraud in the Florida election. Yeah the tally would have come out in his favor because about 20,000 registered Democrats weren’t allowed to vote. Take that one up with the NAACP for proof. >>
Y a w n .... um yeah, sure ...
<<there’s just so much fodder in some of these messages that if i have to sit here and respond to every one of the points, it would become a full time job. granted, i am very very tempted to respond to certain messages here point by point. unfortunately, i don’t get paid to enlighten the confused on message boards.>>
Well I have a feeling it is more likely that you can’t respond. But a good attempt to gain the upperhand by saying nothing, I’ll give you that.
it really isn’t that difficult to have the upper hand when exchanging points with someone who can’t recall a single instance of american agression within the last 200 years and further boldly makes the claim “America has NEVER been the aggressor.”
it’s not everyday where one enters a debate forum and the counterpart magnifies your own credibility every time he raises a point. i do appreciate the help, but it really isn’t necessary.
Well, you’ve proven to this board your inability to prover YOUR points. I’ve pointed out my sources but yours is YAWN.
Intelligent, compassionate…
I thought you were being cool, but it’s plain to see your ignorance and blindness to these issues only grants you what you deserve. A bankrupt, bombed to hell country because a fascist president did what he wanted against the will of the world.
<<it really isn’t that difficult to have the upper hand when exchanging points with someone who can’t recall a single instance of american agression within the last 200 years and further boldly makes the claim “America has NEVER been the aggressor.” >>
OK smart guy ... name them ... again you have yet to give any examples ... just empty fluff
<<Well, you’ve proven to this board your inability to prover YOUR points. I’ve pointed out my sources but yours is YAWN. >>
First Yawn point I made that REALLY gets my back up! Oil .. War for Oil ... Do you walk to work or ride a bike? If you do neither, then you use OIL ... OIL is a strategic resource this country NEEDS to function. Did we protect Kuwait because they had oil .. OF COURSE! Does that make it immoral and wrong ... NO! And it is the same STUPID argument the Liberals made in 1990 ... do you understand that we had COMPLETE contol of the oil fields after the gulf war ... COMPLETE control (well after we put out the fires that Saddam set) and we GAVE THEM BACK! We do not have ANY control over ANY oil fields in the Middle East .. but I thought the Peace cry was “War for Oil” “This war is only about Oil ... ” Well we did a great job getting that oil in 1990 didn’t we!
Peace!
<<<<it really isn’t that difficult to have the upper hand when exchanging points with someone who can’t recall a single instance of american agression within the last 200 years and further boldly makes the claim “America has NEVER been the aggressor.” >>
Oh and I should clarify ... because maybe you missed my original point ... I said UNWARRANTED aggression ... remember my example was “Hey! Canada is just sitting there ... lets invade” give me an example of THAT! We always go to war to protect or defend ... never to conquer.
You are either 13, naiive, both, or just mean.
NONE of these arguments, at least mine, you slow to fiure out person, have been about past wars. You take everything out of context. You’re trying to get people’s ire up and you’re just being kind of a jerk about it.
You seem to have something against diversity, tolerance and negotiations. What do you hate us black people? Huh? By the way, Jesus was black and he has compassion, accepts diversity, is tolerant and is against war.
We’re not being threatened in this war, but you sure have swallowed the Republican lies. How naiive.
what’s the point for me of continuing this thread? you’ve already given me way more credibility than i deserve. you’ve proven yourself consistently limited in your analysis of history. i was like that once myself.
i only hope that you are in your early 20s and just starting out in life and think that being a republican or being a bush supporter is cool for some reason. that’s not to say that republicanism as a political party is bad. lincoln was a republican.
but your concept of politics and foreign affairs is regional in scope and limited to cnn’s interpretation of the world for you. if i give you the examples that you ask for, i would be doing you a disservice since you would quickly dismiss the answers without careful analysis for yourself. why don’t you do yourself a favor and pick up a book from your local library? i’ll bet you haven’t been there in a while.
ask the librarian for some political books on war covering the last 50 years. even if you should choose a book that’s pro-war, it would at least have chapters that try to counter criticisms of past u.s. actions during wars. at the very least, this would be a start of initiating some balance in your views of the world.
in the mean time, thanks for the ego boost you provide me and others with your postings. thanks.
I wonder how many people will actually read this far down the list…
If the “game” that we need to learn to play is called “Learn to share this planet without destroying it or each other” then we need a new strategy.
Here is a hint: there are no sides. There is no competition. There is only Us, no Them. We just think that there is. We live and believe that there is a Them.
Yes, it looks and feels and sounds like there is a Them. But as long as we live by that illusion the “game” can never be won.
Yes, there are people who think in the directly opposite direction from us. From what I see and hear our country is almost divided in two, but hopefully not yet broken in two.
Yes, there are people who hate us and want to kill us and, yes, there are people in charge of this country whom we don’t trust for a second. It is pretty scary.
They are still Us.
The more we play this game as if there is no Them and the better we get at it the more other people will catch on and finally learn to play this game.
We have to start treating Everybody as an Us. It won’t be easy. It is easier to mock, hurt and dismiss. But I believe we will be wonderfully creative players, coming up with outstanding ways of living together as Us.
This game is an action game but it is a more a game of the heart and mind.
Our actions are important but more important is what we believe. It has to begin now. Just where you are now begin thinking and believing in Us.
(Maybe by not flaming the flamers, much as they piss you off! The game is bigger than that, of course. But in those small places we begin.)
I believe we can learn to be masters at this the hardest, best game. There are clues left for us. Look for them everywhere. Look for others who have caught on already.
We can learn to play well and play for keeps. No one wins unless we ALL win. Just imagine it.
Sharon from Alaska: that was very well put! Look for leaders who have a larger view of “us”, who embrace “internationalism” which is the only “ism” that will promote world peace. “Us” will prevail because the illusion of separateness and duality is false.
This is the article I told you about Roduska.
Jamie
Did George really deserve a “C” for this quotation? I ripped it off from the “365 Stupidest Things Ever Said” desk calendar (Workman Publishing):
On political speeches, confusing:
“I want to keep the peace, to keep the peace. When I was coming up, with was a dangerous world, you knew exactly who they were. It was us versus them and it was clear who the them was. Today we are not so sure who they are, but we know they’re there.”
George W. Bush, talking about how the world has changed since the Cold War
Most American students are graded on a letter scale: A, B, C, D, F. A is superior work, F is failing. A “C student” is a mediocre student. and this defines Bush’s grades in Yale and his prior education.
<<what’s the point for me of continuing this thread? you’ve already given me way more credibility than i deserve. you’ve proven yourself consistently limited in your analysis of history. i was like that once myself. >>
Well it is pretty obvious now that you actually can’t make an argument ... ta ta
Hey everybody have fun hugging each other as once again America will end up doing the right thing and saving the world from evil ...
Peace!
oh you mean making compelling arguments like “yawn” or “ta ta”?
even if america does save the world from some evil existent or non-existent, it certainly doesn’t need to thank any armchair citizen cheerleaders that are so plentiful here.
based on your immaturity, you certainly seem to be of military age. why haven’t you signed up for frontline service yet? at least most everybody have a lot more respect for servicemen who are actually putting their lives on the line as oppose to some chickenhawk cheering in their living room.
oh i forgot. these are bush war supporters. chickenhawks are the “in” thing for this administration.
“Hey everybody have fun hugging each other as once again America will end up doing the right thing and saving the world from evil ... “
A nice bit of optimism, chum. Tomorrow will indeed be a big day for Americans and the millions of world citizens who will be marching for peace and demanding the impeachment of the treasonous bastards who have plunged the world into evil darkness. We’ll certainly be doing the right thing—hope to see you out there with us, friend, “doing the right thing”.
It is so important that we move away from the current popular notion that it’s good to be jaded, and it’s hip to be hopeless; while telling ourselves, “well, I can’t change a damn thing anyway!” We need to move on to a new age of comtemplative action based on high ethical standards that demonstrate that American thinking will only change if we stop being passive non-participants—standing in the background while shaking our heads. We need to learn that we can receive satisfaction from active involvement, and even that small satisfaction is well worth the effort. And hoping that each of those small actions, added together, just might make a difference.
Thank you, Mr. Vonnegut. I am so happy that you’re still inciting action.
If so many are opposed to this, with or without UN OK’, wherein lies our beloved democracy? Is this the new path to freedom we will bring Iraq? One despot for another? Strike the word democracy from our vocab. It never existed.
If the Government’s indictment appeared on Law and Order, there’d be a struggle between D.A. and staff as to whether they should ask for a straight up guilty verdict or guilty because of PP mental disease. What’s so great about Mr. Vonnegut’s interview is that he hasn’t told us what to do. Make up your own mind, seems to be pretty apparent.. he would just like to suggest that again (remember your history because they don’t) the Royals may be demonstrating the effects of mental disease. Vonnegut’s writing has always suggested endless possibilities, that outcome need not be confined to present reality. So, if applied specifically here, A-students might remind themselves that reality is only a consensus of opinion. Thank you, Mr. Vonnegut, you are the perfect person to remind us to think for ourselves in order to leap out of this box.
My age,.. My kind of guy My Sentiments!.....
I am hurt! ... No, not really. Just about what I expected a bunch of dumb shit fascist repubbers to say about Kurt . . . and me. Here’s one more in your fucking faces for you goose-strutting arrogant swine.
Bush has his Axis of Evil: Iraq, Iran, North Korea.
I think we liberals need to come up with an axis of our own. It could be, say,
THE AXIS OF ASSHOLES: Bush, Cheney, Powell, Rumpsfelt (misspelled on purpose—har! har!), Rice, Limpballs (hee! hee!), Ingraham, Fox News, Hannity, Coulter, Ken Lay, Dennis Koslousy (ho! ho!), and all the morons who support this great crowd of excremental whores, etc. etc. etc.—the list is long—there’s a humongous pile of turds stinking up this country now.
And here’s a little poem to celebrate them in all their glorious foul-smelling turdishness:
“A Backside Ballad” (concerning that part of their anatomies the Bush Administration and their cronies think with and the malodorous stuff produced therefrom)
Those who fart in Whitehouse walls
Roll their shit in great big balls.
Those who believe the Limbaugh wit
Love to eat those balls of shit.
Those of us who live with them
Are forced to eat and sigh, “A-hem!”
Let’s stop and stand and shout, “Not me!”
Sling some back and laugh, “Tee hee!”
Did someone up there say something about tolerance? No more Mr. nice guy. That business a couple of years ago in Florida and The Supreme Kangaroo Court cut it.
bush is all that and worse ..
Tolerance? That is finished! Time to draw a line in the sand. 10 million protesting in over 600 cities yesterday and not one word about it in the media? Anyone who thinks we don’t live in a Stalinesque communist-style dictatorship is out of his mind. This is not the time for pacifism-I never owned a gun in my life but I’m going to get one and learn to shoot like Wyatt Earp and I encourage all former pacifists to do the same. We’ll talk pacifism after the stinkin’ aura of totalitarianism has been eradicated and we won’t forget who supported the stink!
Before I get back in the faces of dittoheads MJ, Andrew, Jason, and myriad others of their illiterate ilk, I actually have a question for Kurt Vonnegut.
My question (actually several questions) is how is it that such blockheads as MJ, Andrew, and Jason continue to support His Illegitimacy George II after His seemingly infinite lies and deceptions, most recently exemplified by Colon Bowel’s fraudulent report to the U.N.? (Didn’t we just impeach a president for lying?) The dittoheads (how ironically appropriate they should so name themselves) claim to read newspapers and advise you to do so. These lies have been reported, though not widely so. How is it then that such literate people as these have missed the reports of George Bush lying under oath in a 1998 lawsuit, of the paper trail concerning his probable insider trading while he was at Harken Oil, sitting on the auditing committee no less? Could it be the kind of selective attention I noticed in many of my students in beginning comp, particularly in the C and below-students? Maybe it’s just that all their reading is in The New York Post (Rupert Murdock’s trash rag), USA Today, and The Washington Times (owned by the Moonies—by whom George Bush Senior and Barbara have been paid healthy stipends for speeches given to Moony groups in South America—how appropriate that the Moonies and their brainwashing should come into the mix here), and maybe listening to Limbaugh and his endless list of clones for the swill and name-calling they ladel out so generously on talk radio, and spending many hours watching Fox News and their “fair and balanced” (ha!) reporting and “perspicacious”(tisk!)commentary? Mostly rhetorical questions, but I would like a response from your penetrating mind. It’ll give you ample opportunity to respond in the way only Kurt Vonnegut can—like Mark Twain on acid.
Now back to dittoheads MJ, Andrew, Jason, etc. etc. etc. good, simple, goose-strutting brownshirts all, for a bit more of the Rabelaisian: I am terribly sorry I did not include you numbnuts in The Axis of Asshole, together with Tom Delay, Asshole Hutchison, and Henry Hyde-the-Salami. You deserve special mention in that huge pile of turds. For without ciphers like you guys, Gee Whizz simian-face wouldn’t be the prez and we wouldn’t be preparing to cause the annihilation of the world. With friends like you fellas, who needs the Republican Guard? Gee thanks, Guys!
Fabulous article! I have adored Vonnegut’s writing since reading ‘Cat’s Cradle’ in Jr. High. I’m glad to see ‘Inthesetimes’ print an interview with him. I think many people will be encouraged to see that they are not alone in doubting the motives of our government in their crusade to occupy and control the natural resources of the middle east. I was also pleased to see Robert Redford come out recently with an article encouraging our country to reduce our dependance on foriegn oil. We have the technology to develope a hydrogen infrastructure in the US, and doing so will employ thousands enabling our faltering economy to thrive. The more celebrities and intellectuals who take a stand against our dependance on oil and corporate inspired warmongering the better. Thank you ‘IntheseTimes’ and Kurt Vonnegut!
I trust what Kurt Vonnegut says. He goes straight and tough to the heart of the matter. No one has provided me with a better way to understand Dr Condoleesa Rice.
<<Tolerance? That is finished! Time to draw a line in the sand. 10 million protesting in over 600 cities yesterday and not one word about it in the media?>>
Then you would have missed the fact that the US was the only nation to use overt violence against the demonstrators….....Colorado and New York.
And while I’m at it…......Why is the US, “the great defender of democracy”, bullying and insulting some of the most stable democratic nations in the World…....whose policies reflect those of their people?
<<Tolerance? That is finished! Time to draw a line in the sand. 10 million protesting in over 600 cities yesterday and not one word about it in the media?>>
Then you would have missed the fact that the US was the only nation to use overt violence against the demonstrators….....Colorado and New York.
And while I’m at it…......Why is the US, “the great defender of democracy”, bullying and insulting some of the most stable democratic nations in the World…....whose policies reflect those of their people?
kurt vonnegut for president!!!!
This absolutely genuine and inspiring. Thank you Mr Vonnegut for expressing the views of so many young Americans in Universities throughout this country. I and so many others take pride in studying and appreciating the history and nature of this world. You indeed were correct in stating those in power are by nature comfortable with making ill advised decisions. “...is that they are so decisive. Unlike normal people, they are never filled with doubts, for the simple reason that they cannot care what happens next. Simply can’t. Do this! Do that!” If only we were capable of having intellectuals with this capacity for decisive leadership, wait is that even possible? And round we go…ghopefully, generations from now our future world will be studying these works for peace and examine why those in power chose to ignore the consequences of their actions. Thank you again, I’ll be passing on word of this article.
Thursday, Feb 20, I’m holding an anti war demonstration On the square of Gainesville, GA. Anyone who can come, please do. This article is straight forward, and unfortunately, true. We are fucked. Bush is part of the vast and overpowering Christian right. There are good Christians, and they are as opressed by their religion as the rest of us. Good article. Very insightful.
Well said, Kurt! Thanks so much for having the courage to say what so few have said! I have been in despair for so long that I am seriously considering asylum in another country. Few people remember that Ben Franklin was put in prison when he was 79. He disagreed with the gov too! JW
Hi Mr. Vonnegut!
Your comments, to say the least, are right on target. My novel, War News From Mount Oligarch, takes aim at the military-industrial complex and the spineless politicians who cater to it! Wish I could find someone to actually read it—it has an important message for Americans in these trying times.
I thought that Kurt Vonnegut’s comments were right on, I enjoyed reading this interview immensely.
Kurt Vonnegut’s view resonate with me. I share them. We are 8 years apart in age. No doubt being age mates and having lived through WWII,the Korean War, etc (although from diffferent vantage points) has influenced our views.
I love it when the famous and I are ‘on the same page’.
Reading the interview with Kurt Vonnegut, there was a lot of nodding in agreement. His outlook and, as I see it, clear eyed view of the American scene resonates and makes sense. How I would like our government to make as much!
Thought you might like this.
Em
it is a exaple of life
Whoever read the prologue to SLAPSTICK should know the person who was interviewed here is nowhere near insensitive.
thank you for careing.
Wonderfull to find you. Such a clever deep and courageous speech! From far the best explanation to understand in the middle of this broken out madness whats really going on.
The only thing in return I can give to you, is a little hollyday on my website I paint a kind of a hymne to earth:
www.edda-soerensen.de
enjoy and from my heard:thanks.
Edda
Heh heh. PPs. Heh heh. Pee-Pees. Heh heh. He called them “dicks”. Heh heh. Heh.
I’m proud to say that much of my world view was (and still is) informed by the writings (and rantings!) of Sir Kurt. Thanks to him I strive to attain the status of planetary citizenship.
Somebody here can play this “game”,
just not the ones’ in power!
Great! Heartening, wonderful to see one’s own thoughts in the words of a well-known and respected artist. It is hard to bear the dimension of rage one feels toward The Bush Entourage. When we can share ideas, and gather more light from someone like Kurt, we can go on and hope for some better days. I’m working my way through Barbara Tuchman’s The Guns of August and it’s chilling to see how we are still in the shadow of the late 19th and early 20th c madness. We must keep working so that the world isn’t in the grip of fools. Thanks! Carry on!
voice of reason…
Impeach Bush
A note on the Christian thing…
Quite honestly, I think that the ideas of Christianity have traveled far from what Christ intended them to be.
The people in the Government are power hungry, thoughtless millionairs.
I mean really people! Look at the government.
And I loved that comment about satirists.
——- A northern atheist in an over
“Psychopathic personalities” - How perfectly this diagnosis describes Bush and Co. I have had a kind of sick, frightened feeling with this administration unlike any other I have experienced in my 50 years.
Thank you Kurt for maintaining your integrity and remembering, as you put it, that artists serve humanity not individual nations, religions or ideologies!
Please remain “unstuck in time.”
Carol Gilio
I have tears in my eyes from laughing. As grim and true as everything I read is, I am uplifted like I haven’t been in ages. Many thanks. Always did adore Mr. Vonnegut!
I have tears in my eyes from laughing. As grim and true as everything I read is, I am uplifted like I haven’t been in ages. Many thanks. Always did adore Mr. Vonnegut!
It’s time to throw the scoundrels out! I agree with Former Attorney General Ramsey Clark and urge you to go to http://www.votetoimpeach.org join your voice with ours.
I am a musician who loves Kurt Vonnegut’s work. My dear departed Dad loved it, too. I am glad to know that Kurt approves of my profession. Sometimes it seems to me that making beautiful music may be an unsafe escape from an increasingly frightening present reality. I’m glad to see Kurt is still kicking and making his commonsense views public. It’s good to know there are still sane people in the USA. The pp’s ets. are some of why we emmigrated to Australia. Unfortunately it is not so easy to escape America’s sphere of influence. If there is another dumb war Australia will be in it, too. No where is safe.
Yes, Reality TV is cheap to make, easy to promote and provides a consderable profit margin. It just takes a Howard Stern (yes, some of us in Canada are still shocked) attitude and some degenerate C student who can only see profit rather than a bigger picture. By the way, do you realize that even if the majority of Americans demended your president step down, he wouldn’t? Ahhh the joys of Imperialism. Pay more taxes and LIKE IT!
And a note for Mr. Vonnegut, I finished Slaugherhouse Five last Friday, my first encounter with your work after having completed and English B.A. Yours was novel that was truly a pleasure to engage at this point in time, Thnak you
I know exactly why the ‘C student crowd’ has risen to the top:
*Shit floats*
Thanks Kurt! Keep hammering away at these idiots!
From Australia…...
..... where the politicians are just as crappy (yes, we want to be just like the USA).
I see that Dan Rather interviewed Saddam Hussein the other day. Saddam expressed a desire to debate GWB head to head on TV.
Now you are talking! Let’s see the chickenhawks put up or shut up. Given enough public pressure, your administration would not be able to wriggle out of a real live debate.
What is the alternative? That GWB is a coward? NO! Not possible, surely?
Put pressure on CBS… make it happen.
Let’s see George go smoke ‘em out… if he dares.
Love from Australia… Chris.
Excellent article. I wonder if the C_student-in-chief hadn’t been AWOL from the last war would he be so anxious to start a new war?
Thank you once again, Mr. Vonnegut, for speaking so eloquently for so many.
Fine to hear so many Americans talking like this.
How about a follow-up interview? I’m curious to know what Kurt thinks about the recent protests.
Truly a great American who is exercising that important value, or was important up until recently, of criticizing our leaders. Vonnegut is right on the money when it comes to politics.
Bluebeard will always be my favorite book.
Reading KV makes my blood pump faster and mind wheel harder. This interview is really great, and it’s always inspiring to hear the voice behind the masterful stories. Thank you “In These Times”!
Please check out my regularly updated website on Iraq. The more I read, the more scared I become, and I’ve compiled the scariest bits right here.
http://uk.geocities.com/heffalump3/iraq.htm
Here’s to Kurt!
Adding “Top Secret” No Need to Know (Science Security) to the Poets’ and Artists perception equation, may blow your mind sky high, regarding humanity’s rights to Freedom and Unlimited, Sustainable, Prosperity - for all, not just Kenneth Lay, al la carte.
Kurt’s
I love Vonnegut! At 80 he has lost
none of his humor, wit, or sanity.
Thanks for printing this interview.
Charlotte
Have just been reading the posts and mostly enjoying the articulate, humane responses to Mr. Vonnegut’s brilliant remarks. However, I read several responses from New Hampshire which make me wonder if its citizens’ hearts are as stony as its soil. Please convince me otherwise.
It is good that you put the word Christian in quotes. I think you could also add to that the ‘Jewish’ masterminds (W. & P.) who are behind the curtain in Ooozeland.. pushing the little Bush buttons, ever since the other Bush buttons, with plans that out-distance the good ‘ol US of A.
Thanks for printing this interview.
I agree to Mr. Vonnegut
From Russia, with love
Webmaster of http://vonnegut.by.ru
Vonnegut has made some pretty good points here. and a lot fo this stuff is what most people dont have the balls to say. being from texas i am around narrow minded conservatives all of the time. its unfortunate that we have a bareky functioning joke of a beurocracy in the united states. thats not to say that democrats are the good guys. i would say more the lesser of two evils. sure saddam huesen is a horrible person. but we really do need the support of our allies. and the so-called “respect of amaricas power” that other cuontries are supposed top have for us to prevent wars is arrogant and pretty close to being a dictatoral statement. i mean anyone and i mean anyone whos ever spent time in other developed countries like europe will realized how flawed our country is. i mean we have a bunch of white lazy crackerass businessmen who tell minoritys who work there asses off to support their family’s that they will not be able to work there way as far as a white person could. my mother used to run a gardening business that had mainly hispanic employees and i can tellu there were many guys who worked hard to support there familys but will never be able to be an exec of a corporation but a lazy ass rich frat boy will automatically be able to b/c hes white. there may not be any laws that govern racial prejedice but believe me its very alive. and at teh same time you have these same rich people who granted work hard but would rather laugh at a starving poor person than give there tax dollors to create an economy where people are equal and there is no poverty, little crime, and great equality. i think thats pretty fucked up. amarica i ranked about 12 in the world asz far as standar of living. greatest nation in the world my ass.
Kurt…you and all the assholes commenting here are the Martians…If America sucks it is because of you…
Last attempt ! [For Today]
Kurt Vonnegut is a fiction writer with an undeniable ability to make the readers believe what they are reading is real .
That is a trait of a master wordsmith .
People who addendum crass wiseacre comments in a deluded belief they are exercising some spurious form of “freedom of speech” , are people with tiny minds unable to appreciate or comprehend the big wide world outwith their narrow minded view . And would prove themselves incapable of stringing sixteen words together - verbally - that DID NOT include a cuss or crude expletive .
Their “creativity” starts and ends whilst sat on the toilet evacuating their bowels .
They have no concept of the effort needed nor the trials and tribulations involved in the very solitary process of novel writing , never having made any valid genuine or sustained attempt to appreciate any perspective with parameters beyond the confines of the small corridor along which their pathetic and self-destructive existence never ventures beyond .
They would be the last people to understand that artists like Kurt are straining every nerve and sinew to try to liberate those self same tortured souls from the prisons of their own making : trying to help them see , feel and breathe outside the hell-hole they would have everybody else die in .
Michael Bartholomew
7 March 2003
Lets hope the grmilns faal thys thyme !!!
How did a fucking retarded chimpanze become the leader of the country that claims the top spot as the biggest polluter and user of our dear planet Mother Earth? Answer that correctly and you get a free 4-year scholarship to Yale!!
I regret that assholes are not yet an endangered species.
When Vonnegut says, “M.A.S.H. and Law and Order, to name only two shows, have been stunning masterpieces in that regard,” [fine art] I am saddened since I and the original writer of the book think M.A.S.H. as depicted on TV is pure crap! There were no people like those shown on TV in the book and I never saw one MASH unit that remotely looked and acted like the silly shits in the TV version. Tell V. he doesn’t have to worry anymore about MASH becoming a TV drama or ever classified as fine art. It is without any value except for those sadomasochists who want to increase their radioactivity levels looking at that insane boob tube. I don’t give a damn how “popular” people say it is. They don’t know the differenve between chicken shit and chicken salad.
Wonderful to share the thinking of a brain that shines like a laser on the truth. Unfotunately, all he or any of us can do is point the way, and hope that someone sees.
Who wants war? In Iraq they would show their appreciation for Mr.Vonnegut by straping him down and shoving Franny and Zooey down his throat a page at a time. As was the fate of several great Iraqi poets. I feel the indifference of “pacifism” turns a blind eye on a whole lot of human rights violations and continues to see their hate of dubbya instead of saddam a murderous asshole. Who the hell wouldn’t want saddam out of Iraq. Who the hell wouldn’t want to see a country make a step toward freedom. War for oil? Are you kidding me? What do you drive or ride? Are you plastic free?
Forwarded by a friend—really great interview. I especially like the explanation as to how so many PPs have come to power. Thanks.
Kurt Vonnegut is my HERO!
Everyone bitches ,as the world turns. KV and other great persons like him ,have twisted the eyes of man open . Now that we are beginning to see what is really happening ,what are we going to do about it?I for one suggest that we stick all the assholes on a big boat ,send them out to sea ,with NO FOOD, and let them EAT each other!
Yes, everything you say is true, but the people who need to see this spend their time reading the Enquirer and Star or watching CNN, NBC or FOX - the “C” students from life, the ones who are too lazy - too fearful - or just too greedy to want to see or hear. Are those people even reachable?
I agree with the assertion made concerning the feeling “that our country might as well have been invaded by Martian’s and body snatchers,” when describing the take-over of this country “by means of the sleaziest, low-comedy, Key Stone Cop-style coup d’etat imaginable.” To say that these “upper-crust C-student’s, plus not -so-closeted white supremacist, aka “Christian’s,” and plus, more frighteningly, Psychopathic Peronalities”, lack any experience of history and geography of the world, would only cloud us more from the truth. These folk’s have an agenda, and world dominance is the name of their game. With this phenomenon of September11/01, the present administration will use it as a blank-check to accomplish this agenda. It is my personal belief that this effort is an evil impetus of *Religion,* of the Far Right. It is an everpresent disfigurement in the heart of mankind, a corruption that could spell the end of civilization in its intolerance, of all mankind in its savage murderousness and predation, and of the earthitself in its unrestrained exploitation. And these nice folk’s currently occupy the highest levels of the Republican Congress,and are our most famous religious “leaders.” In Dec./01, the Attorney General John Ashcroft made the pronouncement that if any religious groups are involved with Terrorist’s, they could expect to be visited by agent’s of the U.S. I hope Mr Ashcroft puts the Vatican among this list, for these are the folk’s who wrote the *Book on Terrorism.* In closing, I would say with Spinoza,” Only the ignorant (those who don’t know) are ever the most audacious, and bold, and ready to rush into print. The Christian’s seem to expose their ware’s for sale, like huckster’s, who always show first that which is worst. The devil is said to be very cunning, but to my thinking the tricks of these people are in cunning far beyond his.” Further, only reason will bring to a holt, the spontaneous, the non-logical, and the violent *Play for Power,* which actuates the universe, and modivates human conduct. Again, any Anti-War protestation should be conducted in the same manner as that of Martin Luther King, during the civil-rights of the 60’s. That being a protest of “non-violence.” My hope is that we are not too late!
I think Joe Frank got’s the wrong idea, as do the entire lot of people you could lump into the “ignoramus” category. It’s not that it’s a “War for Oil,” perhaps it’s is moreso that as Americans living in a democratic society, we are entirely left in the dark as to what we are going to war for. Not to mention, regardless of whatever reason, the lives of many innocent people will be taken for whatever purpose we are fighting this war. I guess you can equate liberation from tyranny with death, but what is a greater human rights violation? If you didn’t get KV’s message, you can move to Iraq after the bombs rain down and Saddam’s regime is toppled. Then we can argue about what was best for the Iraqi population. It seems to me if we could track down Osama Bin Laden with satellites equipped with voice recognition technology and pinpoint almost precisely his location, we could overthrow Saddam’s evil regime through covert operations and intelligence without entirely devastating all of Iraq’s infrastructure and food and energy supplies. The demographics of the country should be enough reason to prevent us from an all out assault on Iraq. Sure we’ll try to limit civilian casualties, but one way or another, hundreds of thousands, if not millions of Iraqis will die in this war. And for what? There’s a good chance it’s for the oil, but what if it’s not? Does it really matter?
By the way, we might use gasoline and plastic and things that are harmful for our environment… but any environmentally conscious person knows their limitations and practices conservatism to the fullest of their capabilities.
Another observation: is it me or does anyone with anything intelligent to say lean a little to the left on this issue? It’s amazing to see the response to this article, as I’m sure no one will read this being that it is at the bottom of 5 pages of comments…....... DISSENT IS OUR ONLY LIBERTY LEFT—- SPEAK OUT OR BE LEFT OUT!!!!!
I have to say, there’s nothing about being a C-student that implies Assholedom or even Idiocy. Many really brilliant people don’t do well in school, some don’t even attend. However, Dubya has NO EXCUSE. At Ivy league universities (and i speak from personal experience) grades are so fucking inflated that a C is more like a D or F. no joke. To get a C (at least, as is the case now at Columbia) you really have to do very little in terms of study. The mean for most classes is around a B with curve…. At the same time, being a Rhodes scholar and studying at Oxford doesn’t guarantee anything either (see: Mr. Hillary Clinton)
Mr. Vonnegut makes his point as delicately as ever. I’ll aqgree to pacify if anyone (be it C Yale students or American Socialists) can convince me that the powers that be will not use VX, Anthrax, Smallpox or Serin against those closest to me. I am as of yet unconvinced that such restraint will be used by al-Qaeda. I am, however, convinced that if Saddam would use such horrible agents on people of his own country, that he would provide them to those who would use them against ours. I wonder if Kurt Vonnegut has ever embraced a child killed by Serin gas (like the thousands in northern Iraq). I wonder if he would maintain such convictions if he were to embrace his 20 year old daughter after a VX attack.
If I were a betting man, I would not put money on this comment being posted. I would be naive to believe that my contrary opinion would be posted on a site that speaks so highly of free-speech yet prints only one side of an argument. But Nazi Germany and Stalinist Soviet Union have provided an excellent blue print for one sided arguments. I’m not a betting man, and so I’m not willing to bet that Saddam Hussien will not use Serin gas against my 13 year old brother or Kurt’s 20 year old daughter. For that reason I will support any asshole brave enough to pacify Iraq.
Vonnegut is one of the only men alive that deserves every ounce of fame and respect to which he is credited. Thank you for printing this article, reaffirming my believe that he is one of the most profound minds of all time.
thank you
George gives the rest of us “C students” a bad rap.
George from Honalulu; what the bloody hell are you on about. The left losing the election-what left? Besides the only loser was democracy when dubyas dad’s cronies in the supreme court handed him power. Regarding Kurts article-nice one. Check out John Kaminsky at Rense.com for similar stuff.
Hey, great interview. Listen, since you do investigative reporting - well - and don’t seem to be afraid of death, how about a story on the short-selling of stocks following 9/11? There were a dozen investigations promised, by big institutions/financial and otherwise, and not a word of who was responsible has filtered back. Isn’t that the smoking gun of the whole 9/11 attack? Or ask Kurt to do it. Hey, good luck, and thanks for your work. (A C-student is someone who consistently earns very mediocre grades in school - as Bush verifiably did)
!!!Kurt Vonnegut for President!!!
You’ve changed my life, sir, in ways I won’t even try to describe, but always with a light, always making it truer and more beautiful, less lonely. I love you, and I wish to thank you for your work, but I just ain’t got the words.
In deep and humble appreciation,
Rob Monk
Absolutely brilliant, Mr. Vonnegut.
I doubt that any person who wants war has experienced what human flesh smells like when it is burning.
When I read articles like this it always brings my mind back to a question that I’ve been batting around forever and never have been satisfied with any answers that I or the rest of the world has come up with. What kind of society, given all the flaws inherent in human nature, would be the best possible solution? And I’m not talking about ideal societies such as the socialist ‘imaginings’ of John Lennon, but a real society that takes into account all of humanities’ flaws, like ugliness, hate, laziness, bad habits, power struggles, cruelty, ruthlessness, dishonesty, hypocracy, etc… What is ‘as good as it gets’? Because lets face it, none of these qualities are ever going to disappear, and we all have different combinations of them in different quantities. So what’s the best society that would have the least amount of suffering and the highest amount of happiness? Unless you have a reasonable answer to this it’s a little hard to listen to endless bitching about the world and the leaders of it. They are just ugly humans like the rest of us, and just because we are powerless hippies/bohemians/artists/working class, doesn’t make us better and doesn’t mean we’d really do any better in their place.
Kurt speaks with admirable bluntness, insight and wit, as usual; however, e is surprisingly and unduly pessimistic about the power of protests. The protests against the war in Vietnam, inspired in part by Vonnegut and other sympathetic writers, did influence U.S policy to end the war. Protests also worked in Manila, Prague and East Berlin. In order to work, they just need to keep getting bigger and bigger. How can you ignore this, Kurt?
I have just recently discovered Kurt Vonnegut as not only an author, but an artist in his own right; being that I am only 15, I find that my new discovery is not too late.
Player Piano, in my opinion, describes in great detail, basically what is happening in todays world. Only it is another country taking the radical aproach. Kurt Vonnegut, when writing Player Piano shows exceptional insight into the future of the Earth. As in Player Piano though, Iraq will be stopped, and their attempt will be noted, although in a twisted perception copied down into the history books.
We, today’s people are making history, take note, and pass the truth on to your children.
I must say though, that I oppose all acts of Anti-War on the war on iraq. I completely respect everyone’s point of view, but in my opinion, there is no need to change life as it is now, which is what Iraq is trying to do. That is why we must stop them
Thanks. It’s so hard to find reasonable opinions in this red neck city.
Right on as allways a truly sane man. If thats posible.
Burn the witches! Burn the witches!
Laugh? Cry?
America Inc.?
U.S.A Co.?
Greed.
This is what our government has become. This is what must end.
I love you Kurt. Never met you, but damn do I respect you. Keep on truckin’
Dear Mr. Vonnegut
Thanks for the interest you still take in human affairs, and for taking time to share your precious thoughts with all of us here on this planet. I must admit I cried reading your interview and also reading all the responses the interview got. I really don
It’s good to read someone comment with obvisous intelligence rather trhan just following along like a scared sheep
Glad to here something from the Americans who are actually sane, because as you all may know, Bush&co; aren’t making themselves and the US all too popular in Europe, to say the least
Creative cynicism is always better than straight prose. I really appreciate this itnerview
a c- student is a person in the white house who has the audacity to start a war with out a congressional declaration after becoming president by what 2 votes.
Someone once said “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good [people] to do nothing.”
War scares the hell out of me. I am trying to raise my baby boy. But by God, sometimes you need to fight for what is right.
I feel like going fetal for a few years and hoping for the best just like the rest of us, I’m sure.
Here’s the real issue: GWB or no, do we let Saddam go on his merry way and do nothing? Which scares you more?
I forgot to say, I have been a huge fan of Mr. Vonnegut’s for years. I think someone else already posted this, about getting a little bit of sanity and hope out of his work.
Thank you.
Bravo! Mr. Vonnegut is a genius as an artist and an author. Has our country gone completely mad? Who is the real agressor in this war? Personally I do not care who my fathers enemies are. But since he is a sandwich maker, and I as sole heir of this “fortune”, it is unlikely that the salami makers of this country will fund my personal war against Italy to control all of the salami of the world. I guess we can not all be so lucky (and salami prices will have to continue to skyrocket). I have read half of Mr. Vonneguts works and am a huge fan of his works of art. Thank you for providing the opinion of my hero.
Bravo! Mr. Vonnegut is a genius as an artist and an author. Has our country gone completely mad? Who is the real agressor in this war? Personally I do not care who my fathers enemies are. But since he is a sandwich maker, and I as sole heir of this “fortune”, it is unlikely that the salami makers of this country will fund my personal war against Italy to control all of the salami of the world. I guess we can not all be so lucky (and salami prices will have to continue to skyrocket). I have read half of Mr. Vonneguts works and am a huge fan of his works of art. Thank you for providing the opinion of my hero.
A great “explanation” of the PPs, who are of course incomprehensible as normal human beings. It is difficult for Americans to grasp that the federal government can have been taken over by this bunch.
War protest against Vietnam not Cream pie. Protest creates audience for leaks and whistle blowers, and thus raises public awareness. Iraq invasion being protested world wide, is evidence of a changing world. Small planet. Will have beneficent effect. Kurt V. is one of my heros. Without Slaughter House Five, my father would have been a mystery to me.
Still, i am one of those happy lucky idiots who is immune to cynicism…...maybe I learned that from my own Billy Pilgrim, who was always capable of leaving for the moon.
Mr. Kurt Vonnegut remains my most cherished of authors. Many thanks for not only the shear joy of entertainment but being a mentor through some very tough young years. His words are music to eyes. Unfortunately, I cannot say I have contributed much to help the earth but maybe my daughters will. Oddly enough like, the oldest is majoring in Biochemistry and the other will be majoring in Anthropology. Oh yea, about the topic at hand. The people who run things have never been very smart. However, they depend on the intellectuals to tell them what to do. Not that is it right to attack Iraq but when the fighting is all over even the French will thank us they had better. Sure we do not need nuclear weapons anymore but we are a lot less likely to use them than before the Soviet Union became Russia. We are destroying the planet at an increasing rate. I hope that we will change the way we live before it is too late. Maybe then we will be able to salvage and maybe even restore earth with technology.
Mr. Kurt Vonnegut remains my most cherished of authors. Many thanks for not only the shear joy of entertainment but being a mentor through some very tough young years. In my book, his novels are the greatest. His words are music to eyes.
Unfortunately, I cannot say I have contributed much to help the earth but maybe my daughters will. Oddly enough like, the oldest is majoring in Biochemistry and the other will be majoring in Anthropology. Oh yea, about the topic at hand. The people who run things have never been very smart. However, they depend on the intellectuals to tell them what to do. Not that is it right to attack Iraq but when the fighting is all over even the French will thank us they had better. Sure we do not need nuclear weapons anymore but we are a lot less likely to use them than before the Soviet Union became Russia. We are destroying the planet at an increasing rate. I hope that we will change the way we live before it is too late. Maybe then we will be able to salvage and maybe even restore earth with technology.
free iraq now. people are being oppressed there by a cruel and vicious man. war is a discusting thing, but it may be a neccessity at this point. i don’t expect any of you people to give a crap about what i have to say, but we don’t need another north korea. i don’t know all of the facts about what’s going on with the war, and there may be ulterior motives, but please don’t take out any anger on our soldiers the way it was done after vietnam. they are only doing their job. cynicism is contagious, so try to concentrate on the good things about this country, and this government. it’s not all bad. some of it is. very bad, but try not to get dicouraged. life is good if you want to make it that way and all persons living or dead are not purely coincidental. thank you.
We built bin Laden as the Mujuahadeen in Afghanistan, then he turned on us. We built Saddam to torture the Iranians who toppled the Shah we installed. We armed the Contras to overthrow a democratically elected government that rose out of the ashes of U.S. fruit companies and now they are running drugs into the U.S.
What we should be doing now is looking at groups the U.S. is militarizing now that will turn on us later on. Not only have we made our own worst enemies, but we are still making new ones. As usual, preventative measures are the establishment’s last resort.
Hmm, just when it was getting more interesting it ends…
KV is one of those writers I always haerd of, and always are wanting to read but when I have a moment free to read something I never remember his name.
I have seen “Sireens of Titan” dozens of times in the shelves of the public libraries, just when I already have taken my weekly 3 books, so I say to myself “Yeah, I must remember to get this one next week”. But next week I either have to take all three allowed books from the Need-this-stuff-for-studying section or there are no more exemplars left of any KV novel.
So, it’s my first KV-Experience and I will try to get some stuff on-line ;)
BTW: Everytime I saw Kurt Vonnegut’s name in a cathalogue I thought he was German…
Why is it that every immature provocatuer on every posting board on the net calls themsleves ‘jawbreaker’? and why do some people seem to think that Vonnegut’s political views are, and i quote, ‘SHIT’? What does political opinion have to do with anything anymore? look at the statistics! We are on the verge of falling backwards into the foulest smelling and deepest doodoo the human race has excreted, as always seems to be the case whenever the Republican party in america comes to power. politics be damned, this is common sense people! consider this a plea from across the pond: in britain, it doesn’t matter for shit who we vote for, because whoever is in power generally has to go along with the american government. i for one would at least like englands dictator to be saner than the primate we have holding the reigns right now. and justin? you must be very young indeed to consider KV an ignoramus. Opinion aside, the man is a very popular and influential writer, as well as an inciteful artist. And by the way, I am a C student: I am doing only adequately in History right now, although i suppose it does not matter too much- i don’t need to study the nazi’s of the past! I have the Republicans of the present to better understand… mind you, i think i have a beter understanding of military history than nathan, judging from his post full of yawns. Unwarrented American aggression? Let me think: Korea, Vietnam, and the words “My Lai”. Any asshole ‘brave’ enough to bomb the bejeesus out of a country that cannot possibly defend itself against them? sorry, I meant to say ‘pacify’ Iraq. I am all for viewing all perspectives, but I have to wonder as to why the US Govt’s view is so difficult to see rationally. I imagine that a VX attack would be horrendous. Serves us right for inventing the stuff! I forget, has Iraq said that it has anthrax or not? i am just puzzled as to why the US, which is so anxious for evidence, has no merely produced the transaction slips that must be in a vault somewhere left over from when the US sold the stuff to Hussein in the first place! There you go Powell! Problem solved! Oh, and by the way, all of you in North Korea, watch out! Guess what the subject of the next US led UN crusade will be! If we manage to wipe oursleves out in the coming century, I imagine that the Creator of the Universe will have one less problem to worry about at night. Obla-di! Obla-da! Life goes on!
Wow. I’m 27 and have never read any of Vonnegut’s work, but I’m going to rush out and remedy that. Thank you, Mr. Vonnegut, for unmasking the psychopathic personalities pervading our society.
“Stop Mad-Cowboy Disease”
Hiya, Ain’t Kurt the greatest, though it is a bit ironic that they put Kurt Vonnegut day on Nov. 11, Armistice day, which Howard in Mothernight riles at being renamed for th dead of all Wars, just thought that should be pointed out,
Thanks for existing Kurt, what the Sermon on the Mount did for you, You books did for me
Kurt Vonnegut is a genius, there is no denying, however his comparison of this war to Vietnam is erroneous. It is clearly more similar to WWII, where it was necessary to be involved. No one wants to go to war, including myself, however I choose to examine all sides of this problem, not just selectively listen to only the liberal aspect. People fail to keep an open mind about everything. This is not ONLY a war over oil, but also about American power, pride, and safety, therefore I strongly support the actions of our President.
Wonderful interview. So many of us feel this way and I’m thankful we still have Mr. Vonnegut around to articulate it for us so well. Happy Birthday, Wanda June!
www.geocities.com/missxanna
I’ve been interested in Vonnegut’s works for about a year and a half now. I read The Sirens of Titan when I was 14. I am now 15 and I just finished Cat’s Cradle, which inspired me to the point at which I frequently quote the books of Bokonon. Vonnegut has truly made humanity more lively. While a few thousand people may die in Iraq today or tomorrow or sometime soon, it will always help to recognize the “granfalloonery” of GWBush. The history made by politicians and world leaders not even worth discussing. It would make us all feel alot better if we didn’t even try to make the world right.
The state of affairs in this world just makes me incredibly sad and almost completely hopeless. Hearing Vonneguts words of truth, however, at least lets me know there are sain people in this world who do care. Thank you, Mr. Vonengut.
Thank you—this was the best things I’ve read on the Net in a *long* time—which means it’s time for me to go out & reread your books.
To Joe, who wrote: It doesn’t really matter who does or doesn’t like us. It’s whether they respect our power that counts. That respect is what prevents wars in the long run.
Posted by: Joe on 2.1.03 | 1:12 pm from NH
Respect prevents wars, sure.
But what kind of respect do you think we are getting when we say we’re going to take Bin Laden dead or alive and then years go by while we fail to find him and he just keeps transmitting messages? Or when we say we’re attacking to enforce the policies of the U.N. even though we don’t even dare risk a vote at the U.N.—let alone when we wiretap, bribe and threaten other countries in pursuit of our non-vote? Or when we say we’ll attack evil nations which don’t have nukes, but we announce that on second thought multilateral diplomacy is the correct choice once they do have them? If that’s not a recipe for making nations go out and get themselves nuclear weapons, then I don’t know what could be.
A recipe for respect it isn’t.
thanks again Mr. Vonnegut. i’m a fan of yours for about 25 years and i suspect i’ll keep on being so as long as i’m able to think.
About the present subject, i’d like to put just 1 question to the chairmen of big enterprises (not oil or military and similar, obviously) who must be loosing money since GW Bush won the elections: what you are waiting for, you .... to get rid of that mad ... (can’t find an accurate word - in portuguese i’d say “cabr?o”) ?
Would you have the same opinion from Uday Hussain’s RAPE ROOM or protest the war as you are sliding down, feet first, in the PLASTIC SHREDDING MACHINE? Yes, this should go on, and no one should help these people, especially the US because our government are unintelligent, corrupted and don’t care about humanity.
As long as there is a lower class, I am in it.?—You’re loaded, if you haven’t noticed.
As long as there is a criminal element, I am of it?—You’re not in jail either. Please help me understand logic.
First of all, Carlos, on your references to the rape room and the plastic shredding machine: Saddam went nutty when we started this war. As far as I know, and correct me if I’m wrong, the two of them were not even used until it was clear that Bush wanted Hussein out of Iraq. I don’t speak for anyone but myself, but perhaps sending your chief advisor chopped up in a body bag to his wife’s house… that might be a sign of, I dont know, pressure?
And also, what Vonnegut said about the lower class and the criminal element, that was a quote. I know he meant it to reflect his own character, but it was strictly a basic comparison. It’s rediculous to criticize the details of a quote.
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