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There is something incredibly anti-thinking going on in the West - for example, with New Age adherents often believing that we even choose our parents. So, once again, it’s all our responsibility. There is nothing we’re not responsible for.
“Just think positively” is one part of this.
So is, “everyone is where they are meant to be” - even those being slaughtered, of course.
The astounding thing about all this is that we are supposed to have freedom of thought - but there often seems to be a ban on thinking.
Posted by Elsa on Nov 6, 2009 at 3:54 PM
<blockquote>This mania for looking on the bright side has given us the present financial collapse; optimistic business leaders
Posted by scorp on Nov 7, 2009 at 9:11 PM
Hi
When the author says ‘positive thinking is antithetical to critical thinking.’ I immediately think about the balance between faith and reason.
I’m Buddhist, so I simply translate these terms into those more familiar.
I don’t think there’s a contradiction here. For example, my faith in the car starting in the morning doesn’t contradict any understanding I have about how it works, or any lack thereof. And when one fails my experience, it doesn’t affect the other. They exist side by side as polar perspectives. Just difference views.
There are times when I doubt the car will start in the morning, and there are times when it simply doesn’t, but that doesn’t warrant sweeping generalizations like, ‘the car will never start in the morning’ - ‘faith is out, reason is everything’ -‘positive thinking…’ etc.
Look at the scope of the situation. America was the new world with plenty of resources to abuse, little in the way of stifling bureaucracy like in the EU or India. The people are careless now and overspend, and now have to start paying back the national debt. No surprises. The hollywood honeymoon is over. China is much like America was. They’ve destroyed their bureaucracy and the future is set for massive growth, spending, abuse. Positive thinking will work very well for Chinese now. I hope they can find a balance, for their sake and ours.
I would like the author to make a clearer distinction between the principle of optimism and its use in the context of a corporate America.
I don’t think discussion around the subject will be helpful unless this is done.
A note on the megachurches comment - The charismatic movements have sacrificed their context and their objectivity in appealing to the mundane desires of the people.
They should stick to being optimistic about the afterlife based on the merit you accumulate through generosity, patience etc. Heaven has nothing to do with the stock exchange or political anything, but I guess this is another example of the perennial hurdle of spiritual traditions - where faith becomes divorced from reason.
Posted by ducky on Dec 5, 2009 at 3:55 AM
My knowlegde in the so-called aftrelife is not based on religion , it is based on physics….One of the basic facts in physics , is that energy can neither be created or destroyed…Now , to this ’ Horse, the fact that human life is based on the our animated state , in other words , energy propells us through life , the phenomenon known as death cannot exist….The visual physique will give out , but the essences of who we are as individuals cannot , regardless of what you think or believe…That energy is called the soul , now what happens after that is of course anybodies guess , I don’t claim to know all the answers , but I do know that what is referred to as death , is just terminology for what the ol’ folks called ” passing on “...It is just like anythink else in this physical world ; if I drop a brick on your foot , it will hurt , might break your toe , no amount of praying or belief in Jesus will change that….This is not supersition or beleif in positve thinking it is just fact…............
Posted by blackhorse on Jan 29, 2010 at 1:51 PM
Excellent excellent. But how well do you know this truth - Is it merely a conceptual understanding you take comfort and pride in, like a collection of dead books on a dead bookshelf? If someone is completely disillusioned about death, then in theory they would have no fear, not so? But where does one find such a person.
So I agree that death is only a perception, a view we choose to take, but I think there’s still something to be done past getting it intellectually down pat. And maybe that extra depth involves someone who has gone the distance? After all, nothing beats direct experience. Who better to learn from and be devoted to than one with said experience.
Posted by ducky on Feb 2, 2010 at 3:07 PM
I just finished reading “Bright-Sided” and I must say Ehrenreich is one of those rare writers who has no ego involvement and whose capacity to see things as they are, is unencumbered. A thousand light bulbs went off as I read this book: ‘Ah, this is what I lived through, am living through!’
Posted by Sal Forte on Feb 16, 2010 at 9:34 PM
Ducky , I am not sure what you are getting at by something more….If what you mean is life after death , yea sure , I know this exists , that was the point of what I was trying to convey…..
Most would say they believe or conversely ,that they do not believe( in life after so-called death ), but what I am saying is that I know that this phenomenon is a fact , based off of basic physics…..
Posted by blackhorse on Feb 18, 2010 at 2:13 PM
Something more than book knowledge. You know the facts, but what does that mean. Are you any safer by that knowledge?
Most will still act out of fear of death not because they lack knowledge of its unreality, but because that knowledge is derived only from reason (physics in your case) and not direct experience (as for a yogi).
Who needs to be told the taste of treacle when his mouth is stuffed with it? :)
Posted by ducky on Feb 20, 2010 at 4:57 AM
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Reader Comments
There is something incredibly anti-thinking going on in the West - for example, with New Age adherents often believing that we even choose our parents. So, once again, it’s all our responsibility. There is nothing we’re not responsible for.
“Just think positively” is one part of this.
So is, “everyone is where they are meant to be” - even those being slaughtered, of course.
The astounding thing about all this is that we are supposed to have freedom of thought - but there often seems to be a ban on thinking.
<blockquote>This mania for looking on the bright side has given us the present financial collapse; optimistic business leaders
Hi
When the author says ‘positive thinking is antithetical to critical thinking.’ I immediately think about the balance between faith and reason.
I’m Buddhist, so I simply translate these terms into those more familiar.
I don’t think there’s a contradiction here. For example, my faith in the car starting in the morning doesn’t contradict any understanding I have about how it works, or any lack thereof. And when one fails my experience, it doesn’t affect the other. They exist side by side as polar perspectives. Just difference views.
There are times when I doubt the car will start in the morning, and there are times when it simply doesn’t, but that doesn’t warrant sweeping generalizations like, ‘the car will never start in the morning’ - ‘faith is out, reason is everything’ -‘positive thinking…’ etc.
Look at the scope of the situation. America was the new world with plenty of resources to abuse, little in the way of stifling bureaucracy like in the EU or India. The people are careless now and overspend, and now have to start paying back the national debt. No surprises. The hollywood honeymoon is over. China is much like America was. They’ve destroyed their bureaucracy and the future is set for massive growth, spending, abuse. Positive thinking will work very well for Chinese now. I hope they can find a balance, for their sake and ours.
I would like the author to make a clearer distinction between the principle of optimism and its use in the context of a corporate America.
I don’t think discussion around the subject will be helpful unless this is done.
A note on the megachurches comment - The charismatic movements have sacrificed their context and their objectivity in appealing to the mundane desires of the people.
They should stick to being optimistic about the afterlife based on the merit you accumulate through generosity, patience etc. Heaven has nothing to do with the stock exchange or political anything, but I guess this is another example of the perennial hurdle of spiritual traditions - where faith becomes divorced from reason.
My knowlegde in the so-called aftrelife is not based on religion , it is based on physics….One of the basic facts in physics , is that energy can neither be created or destroyed…Now , to this ’ Horse, the fact that human life is based on the our animated state , in other words , energy propells us through life , the phenomenon known as death cannot exist….The visual physique will give out , but the essences of who we are as individuals cannot , regardless of what you think or believe…That energy is called the soul , now what happens after that is of course anybodies guess , I don’t claim to know all the answers , but I do know that what is referred to as death , is just terminology for what the ol’ folks called ” passing on “...It is just like anythink else in this physical world ; if I drop a brick on your foot , it will hurt , might break your toe , no amount of praying or belief in Jesus will change that….This is not supersition or beleif in positve thinking it is just fact…............
Excellent excellent. But how well do you know this truth - Is it merely a conceptual understanding you take comfort and pride in, like a collection of dead books on a dead bookshelf? If someone is completely disillusioned about death, then in theory they would have no fear, not so? But where does one find such a person.
So I agree that death is only a perception, a view we choose to take, but I think there’s still something to be done past getting it intellectually down pat. And maybe that extra depth involves someone who has gone the distance? After all, nothing beats direct experience. Who better to learn from and be devoted to than one with said experience.
I just finished reading “Bright-Sided” and I must say Ehrenreich is one of those rare writers who has no ego involvement and whose capacity to see things as they are, is unencumbered. A thousand light bulbs went off as I read this book: ‘Ah, this is what I lived through, am living through!’
Ducky , I am not sure what you are getting at by something more….If what you mean is life after death , yea sure , I know this exists , that was the point of what I was trying to convey…..
Most would say they believe or conversely ,that they do not believe( in life after so-called death ), but what I am saying is that I know that this phenomenon is a fact , based off of basic physics…..
Something more than book knowledge. You know the facts, but what does that mean. Are you any safer by that knowledge?
Most will still act out of fear of death not because they lack knowledge of its unreality, but because that knowledge is derived only from reason (physics in your case) and not direct experience (as for a yogi).
Who needs to be told the taste of treacle when his mouth is stuffed with it? :)
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