The one good argument for war against Iraq is evoked by Christopher Hitchens: The majority of Iraqis are Saddam’s victims, and they would be really glad to be rid of him. He is such a catastrophe for his country that an American occupation in whatever form is a much brighter prospect for Iraqi citizens. We are not talking here of… return to article
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Reader Comments (77)Page 1 of 1 pagesThis story brought tears to my eyes as I sit here and try to digest what is happening to this country, to this world. Trying as hard as I can ~ I just cannot imagine WHAT people today are thinking. I am only 30 years old...what a long road lie before me…
Posted by Amy Vukovic on Mar 18, 2003 at 3:34 PM Slovoj Zizek articulated perfectly a summary of what is happening right before our eyes. In turn, this will enable me to articulate more accurately to others, including my warmongering brothers and father. Very well done. I give thanks Mr. Zizek went to the trouble to write this piece, and that In These Times picked it up. Marion
Posted by Marion Warfield on Mar 18, 2003 at 9:42 PM Dear Dr. Slavoj
Many thanks for this opportunity to read your wonderfully exact peception of the facts.
Living in Texas has given me a dubious opportunity to closely observe the Bush cabal’s
pretext, non stop web of lies, posturing, gesticulating, desire to obtain astronomical amounts of money from any source as you see at this point in time....with complete disregard to the mayhem they are about to cause.
They are a monumental conspiracy whose aim appears to be to keep our Nation and indeed the world as their captives.
Will they meet their due punishment by being miraculously brought to justice and thus be
consigned to a well earned oblivion?
They are certainly equal to their own description of Saddam.
Cordially,
John
Posted by John Chaker on Mar 19, 2003 at 12:57 AM Slavoj makes an excellent point regarding the parallels with 1984, but also one should consider the work of Aldous Huxley-Ends and Means. In this lengthy essay the question posed is, does the End ever justify ther means.In the case of war on iraq, if the ‘end’ is perptual war and totalitarianism then the means are fine. However who is actually aware of the ‘ends’ and who can decide whether the means are acceptable , or even legal.
Posted by Alec on Mar 19, 2003 at 3:35 AM Those of you in the US who fear losing your democractic rights may like to contemplate whether or not it has ever existed in your country. The fact that 600,000 inhabitants of Washington DC cannot vote must be very perturbing. Not, I must add that my own Country is perfect. Given the experiences of my countrymen in Great Britain last night democracy appears to mean being free to choose who gets threatened & co-erced behind closed doors before big, important, life-changing votes are taken in the most important seat of legislature in the land.
The moral here is “Think carefully about what you wish to defend/promote” and until you have lived under an alternative system to your own please do not attempt to critise.
Posted by Tony Webb on Mar 19, 2003 at 7:18 AM I agree with some of his basic arguments about the causes and reasons for this war, but I think Mr. Zizek is way off base when using 1984 and al-Qaeda for comparisons in his final 3 paragraphs. Opponents of this conflict have argued all along that Iraq is not really part of the war on terrorism, so why the reference to the capture of Mohammed? He is tying these together to give a vague interpretation of how this relates to the dreaded 1984 scenario.
Obviously a philosopher from Eastern Germany, whose early years were influenced by the Soviet Union, carries a certain amount of paranoia. Having lived in both Germany and Poland I’ll assume the role of the “tenured Western academic”. OK, I’m giving myself too much credit, but eastern European philosophers are a dime a dozen. The true insight will be hindsight, and I think all of our opinions will undergo vast transformations in 3 months time. The tanks are rolling, I’ll do what I can to improve the situation, but philosophers are notorious for vague hopes based on dreams with no basis in reality. On a positive note, elections are less than 2 years away!
Posted by ROCKTIME on Mar 19, 2003 at 9:56 AM Well, i have to say that i agree with Zizek says. Ever since seeing bowling for columbine and having long debates and discussions in my sociology class, i have noticed what i would consider a detereriation of this country and the freedom of the citizens there of. It frightens me to see what this country will turn into in my future, and what this war may or maynot do our nation. And, frankly, i feel that rocktime is way off base talking about Zizek like that. No reason to attack Zizek personally. But, i do agree that it is good that elections are coming soon.
Posted by Dave Sharer on Mar 19, 2003 at 3:02 PM This story is really far from reality. Anyway it’s no strange coming from a guy with rat name. The US has the mission, no, the RIGHT to crush any person or group or country or culture that even tries to go against our interests. Is a fact that all countries outside our borders are inferior in every single way, and, therefore, dangerous when achieve some degree of development. Our mission as the only Superpower is to avoid that any other country out there manages to come out of the mud, the only place that africans, asians and latinos deserves. We have the tech. We have the power because we deserve it. The subhumans living outside our borders has no right to our resources, our oil and food, resources that are ours for being what we are. If Bush is smart, he should carpet-bomb iraq, kill those iraqui rats and their descendants, and take the oil that is rightfully ours. There is no ‘human’ life to protect if isn’t American
Posted by Proud American on Mar 19, 2003 at 3:50 PM From the Guardian 3/18/003
Weapons inspector: ‘US gave us wrong data’
A UN weapons inspector who returned from Iraq yesterday said today that the US had given them wrong and misleading information about Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction.
Jorn Siljeholm, 48, a Norwegian scientist at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, spent 100 days in Iraq as part of the UN inspections team.
He told the Associated Press that assertions by US officials, including the US secretary of state, Colin Powell, about Iraq’s arsenal and its attempts to hide it, did not tally with his own findings.
“None of their hot tips were ever confirmed,” he said, adding: “I don’t know about a single decontamination truck that didn’t turn out to be a fire engine or a water truck.”
Posted by T Mark on Mar 19, 2003 at 8:15 PM Mr Zizek makes it perfectly clear with this statement the root of the anti-war movement: “Of course the fall of Saddam would be a relief to a large majority of Iraqi people, and a whiff of liberal hypocrisy does taint many of the stated reasons against war. But the impending invasion and occupation of Iraq is still wrong—because who is leading it makes it wrong.”
Note: —“because who is leading it makes it wrong.”
There you have it.
Christ put it this way - “If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you.” John 15:18“If the world hates you, (George Bush), you know that it hated Me (Jesus Christ) before it hated you.” John 15:18
Let those who can see, see.
Posted by Carl Snodgrass on Mar 19, 2003 at 11:30 PM I cried tonight for the first time in a long time. I struggle to find an offensive phrase that properly fits the idiot that has imposed himself upon the American people. I happen to live here, in New York which happened to have been hit the hardest by an organisation that had absolutely nothing to do with the thousands of innocent people that are dying by our hands this very night. WE ARE KILLING INNOCENT PEOPLE RIGHT NOW. How does that make you feel? After conducting spot polls among New Yorkians, out of which only one person in 60 was for the war, I think most of my neighbours feel sick. To the majority of the US people, and the rest of the world, the problem they have to deal with is for the first time a fool that holds the reins of power in Washington. The world has had to remove such an idiot from Berlin. I only hope voters in the US will have the good sense of removing this fool with their votes. Otherwise the world will have to get together and do it for them.
Posted by Aron Hjartarson on Mar 20, 2003 at 12:08 AM I could not agree with Zizek more. I will go further. The first rule of war for dissenters is not to watch TV. Do not participate, and do not be a spectator, and only read the newspaper with jaundiced eye.
Most of it will flow directly from the Pentagon. Already, I’ve read an article this Wednesday evening in which our tomahawk missiles were spoken in adjectives only truly worthy of a press release. They’re “technological wonders”, and “at $600,000 considered expensive”. I’d say so. How much of that comes out of my check every few weeks? Rule number two? Keep a vigilant hold on the source and soundness of information and ideas!
Posted by Jimm Donnelly on Mar 20, 2003 at 3:27 AM I could not agree with Zizek more. I will go further. The first rule of war for dissenters is not to watch TV. Do not participate, and do not be a spectator, and only read the newspaper with jaundiced eye.
Most of it will flow directly from the Pentagon. Already, I’ve read an article this Wednesday evening in which our tomahawk missiles were spoken in adjectives only truly worthy of a press release. They’re “technological wonders”, and “at $600,000 considered expensive”. I’d say so. How much of that comes out of my check every few weeks? Rule number two? Keep a vigilant hold on the source and soundness of information and ideas!
Posted by Jimm Donnelly on Mar 20, 2003 at 3:27 AM “The war came without much fuss. It has already been announced too often. It was as if it wanted to say: I am coming to show you that you can rely on me.”
Posted by Walter Benjamin on Mar 20, 2003 at 11:07 AM Zizek is very smart to suggest we closely exam the transformation of our society, as this war is underway and after. I believe alot of people feel this change already, as a reading is canceled in Washington, D.C., because the writers might voice their opinions., as global voices cry out in opposition but Bush labels the immense number of voices as trifle and not capable of hindering him, and as everywhere we see the face of our flag - now a vote for war rather than a tribute to victims.
What are writers supposed to do, speak nothing of their mind? What are global voices of dissent supposed to do, bow down to the imminent ruler, US? How do we reclaim our U.S. flag as an honorable symbol in the face of this obvious aggressiveness?
We must remain attentive to our changing society. As Bob Kohls notes in his book on surviving overseas, Americans often perceive the other worlds on Earth as primitive. Will we ever move beyond this as a larger society. I hope these global voices of dissent are acknowledged and somehow help to shape our U.S. society for the better. Good luck everyone!
Posted by R. J. Lee on Mar 20, 2003 at 12:44 PM [President] George W. Bush will have to go a long way to kill as many Iraqi children as his father and Bill Clinton did. Sanctions against Iraq over the past 12 years caused an estimated 750,000 deaths of children under the age of 15. “We think it was worth it.” - Madeline (not too) Albright. Three quarters of a million children dead. The quality of life for millions more seriously degenerated. Bombing them again seems more honest at least. Hopefully another 12 years will bring an improved standard of living to the few who survive. But don’t count on Iraqis ever seeing 2002’s 25 cents per-gallon at the gas pump again. The new ExxonMobile States of Iraq will never stand for that.
Can’t wait to see what the Iraqi Kurds do for their cousins in Southern Turkey once they are fully armed by the U.S. I can wait ten years to hear about Gulf War II Syndrome. Or will it be World War III Disease?
At least the Strong-arm of America is consistent when it encourages the horrors of psychological and physical torture of war captives with the funds taken away from programs that help the victims of domestic abuse. Perhaps the logic is that abused housewives are less likely to vote. George W. Bush must be mistaking one of the vengeful and brutal Norse gods for the Creator that Jesus prayed to.
Posted by Jerome Millay on Mar 20, 2003 at 12:53 PM In response to Carl Snodgrass’s quoting of Jesus: “We” do not “Hate” George W. Bush. Most of the world does not truly “Hate” anyone. Most of us are just very, very sorry that George W. Bush still thinks that it is the will of God that he must conquer the Phillistines (and steal their oil), which is something that Jesus never endorsed. While Jesus was an observant Hebrew Jew of Isreal, he strongly disagreed with the old bloodthirsty ideology of violent conquest in the name of God. “What you do to the least of my people, you do also unto me.” Whether Jesus would consider modern Jews, Muslims and Christians to be his “people” sounds like a rousing discussion, but even from “our” point of view millions of Christians have and will die at the hands of “faithful” Christian leaders, sometimes their own. Please withhold your judgment until after Armageddon. Thanks.
Posted by Jerome Millay on Mar 20, 2003 at 1:21 PM In response to the “Proud American” who says, “There is no ‘human’ life to protect if isn’t American”: I hope you are a pacifist with a sense of humor who knows that talking that way is the best way to get any thinking, feeling person to resist the people who think that way and their war. However, you being from the Great State of Texas, I may be just a little too optomistic. I think your comment would boil down to a catchy bumper sticker though. How about “NUKE THE TOWEL-HEADS”? As for me I am trying to forgive the war, hate, & fear mongers of all nationalities, “for they know not what they do.” Amen.
Posted by Jerome Millay on Mar 20, 2003 at 1:36 PM If you or anyone would like to see whats really behind the war, please read this web page:http://www.newamericancentury.org/
make sure you read the Statement of Principals. I fear this war in Iraq is just the begining. The webpage would seem to support that.
Keep up the good work.
Posted by Sev on Mar 20, 2003 at 2:43 PM EXCELLENT ARTICLE, TOUCHING MANY BASES. I PLAN TO ADD THE URL TO THIS ARTICLE TO THE FLIER I’M MAKING FOR OUR LOCAL PEACE GROUP TO PASS OUT AT STORES AND POST OFFICES.
Posted by SUSAN on Mar 20, 2003 at 5:43 PM Jerome from Maine writing about Christ states, “While Jesus was an observant Hebrew Jew of Isreal (sic), he strongly disagreed with the old bloodthirsty ideology of violent conquest in the name of God.”
Jerome, you need to take the Bible in toto. Jesus spoke repeatedly of His return and the conquest of those who rejected him, many times using the phrase, “there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
Secondly, Christ condemned many when here, saying to numerous Pharisees, Scribes and Lawyers statments such as, “your mouths are like open tombs.”
Third, with even a casual reading of the gospels one can see Christ whipped the money changers (who of course were authorized by the Pharisees) not on one occasion, but twice. The Gospel of John records one such time. Christ sat outside the temple and made a whip out of rope. Apparently he was not willing to ‘rush’ to a beating of the money changers, but hoping that in the process of preparation to inflict damage some might flee the area.As for your mention of the verse, “What you do to the least of my people, you do also unto me,” Christ was indicating that if you bless one of his people you bless him.
He did state (in Matthew 18:6) that if you cause one of His people to sin it will not go well for you.
Christ spoke these commands to individuals not nations, though clearly God does also judge nations for their misbehavior (see the Babylonian exile for example).
And as for your statement Jerome that Jesus, “strongly disagreed with the old bloodthirsty ideology of violent conquest in the name of God,” that would be in conflict with a multitude of Christ’s statements such as for instance, “I and My Father are one.” (John 10:30) Thus Christ, the Father, and the Spirit all instructed the Hebrew nation on the conquest of Cannan and many other violent conquests.”
Posted by Carl Snodgrass on Mar 21, 2003 at 1:19 AM In response to Josh’s comment ("fyi, the people in DC can and do vote for president"), I guess he must referring to the Supreme Court, who took the ‘liberty’ of stopping the Florida recount in December 2000 and decreed Bush the winner, despite the fact that he had at least half a million fewer votes than Al Gore. American government is a plutocracy, not a democracy. See Sev’s comment—PNAC is the doctrine of the Bush/Cheney administration.
Posted by The Compassionate Conservatives on Mar 21, 2003 at 2:08 PM Thank you, thank you, thank you! I am finally turning to the web and away from the press on this issue and it is WONDERFUL to have all of my views validated!
Posted by Joelle on Mar 21, 2003 at 10:12 PM Hey Proud American, are you totally blind and stupid? I really dont think the US is superior to every other country, I think that kind of talk is dangerously ignorant.
Talking about cultures rising from the mud, you are obviously lost and confused. Dont believe everything your hillbilly friends tell you. I dont agree with this article either, but you are one warped dumb ass…
Posted by ROCKTIME on Mar 22, 2003 at 9:50 AM Hey CARL SNODGRASS, stop justifying everything with your religious crap. Thinking people don’t blindly follow religions and governments… Im not entirely opposed to what is happening in Iraq, but I’m definitely opposed to using your religious fervor to justify it. As we all know, RELIGION: - The number one cause of all wars, better off kept to yourself, the trademark of small minds, a justification for things NOBODY understands…
Posted by ROCKTIME on Mar 22, 2003 at 10:47 AM Reply to Carl Snodgrass: Thank you for refreshing my Bible studies. I respect your decision to take the ancient document literally. My life would clearly be simpler if I believed that all the instructions for my life were contained in it. I prefer consider it as a combination of barbaric history, self-glorifying lineage, tribe control, poetry which varies in quality with translation and author from mediocre to glorious, and toward the end inspires with parable and symbolic acts. If I end up in Hell for that, I’ll beg God’s and your forgiveness. When asking “Who Would Jesus Bomb?” (WWJB), I always feel the same certainty that the answer is “NO ONE”. Of course we must give unto Caesar what is Caesar’s...but I refuse to believe that George Walker Bush has ever felt the blessing of God. Of course his focus groups probably told him to shut up about “divine inspiration”. People might start thinking he’s a cultist. If only he had stuck with the coke and left the policy making to those who are willing to accept a diverse and secular U.S. political system. For now I will accept that Jesus had a human temper (money changers, fig tree), but the Divine wish that people would turn away from the conquest of worldly posessions (passing a camel through the eye of a needle) and turn toward sharing gifts from the heart and neighboring with love. Clearly the Good Samaritan would have rescued anyone, even a Persian (Iraqi). As for turning the other cheek and leaving all judgement to the Prince of Peace, we can only hope to be inspired as often as we ask for it. Right now I am inspired to say, “Peace Brother”.
Posted by Jerome Millay on Mar 22, 2003 at 7:59 PM Absolutely brilliant article. I fear the near future for what Bush has wrought. Yet another beginning to another end. Rome all over again. Leo
Posted by leo ouimet on Mar 22, 2003 at 10:25 PM Rocktime - “For lack of knowledge my people perish.” Jesus Christ
Learning is not so that you may secure for yourself a better job or more successful business.
Rocktime, discovering the reason for knowledge will be a big step for you. :-)!
Posted by Carl Snodgrass on Mar 23, 2003 at 2:05 AM Jerome - Jesus often spoke in parables usually beginning them with the phrase, “Learn the parable of ...” or something similar.
However, Christ began the story of the rich man and Lazarus with the statement, “There was a certain rich man...” meaning a specific man. He was telling the tale of one who chose not to believe and was now in hell. As you reread that story note that it was too late for The Rich Man to ask forgiveness.
As for the eye of the needle, it was an actual small Jerusalem gate where goods entered the city. Camel’s had to kneel down and crawl to traverse the gate, hence Christ’s reference. That Jesus made the reference in relation to the wealthy was another attempt by Christ to teach that the world deception is exasperated in some by their ‘success’ in it.
You error mightily though, Jerome, when you IMPLY that it is God’s principal desire that we “turn toward sharing gifts from the heart and neighboring with love.” Christ first and foremost wants our hearts to repent and turn toward Him. The reason that the Good Samaritan (again a specific man) helped the wounded man on the Jericho road, while others did not, was that his heart (soul) was already becoming God-like because of his relationship with God.
Take care, Carl :-)!
Posted by Carl Snodgrass on Mar 23, 2003 at 2:29 AM Carl… You come across as a pleasant person, not subject to quick temper, or spiteful actions. Generally, religion teaches some good basic principles, and you have benefited from that exposure. That fact does not mean all the basic tenets of ANY religion are correct or even remotely true. Long ago, people looked for answers to things they did not understand, they came to their conclusions with stories and fables passed down from generation to generation. They believed because the people they loved and trusted told them the teachings of the Bible were true.
Please consider, just for a minute, that maybe religion is simply a means to understand what we dont know. There could be just as much truth in the Koran, the teachings of Native American tribes, the Bible, and countless other text meant to give meaning to our lives. I simply and humbly choose to say, “I don’t understand, there are as of yet no concrete answers to these questions”. Evolution and the Bible are both lacking in complete explanations.
It’s OK, Carl. You can admit it. Don’t be shy, now. It really is that simple… meaning, the complexity is beyond what we have come to understand - or more accurately, there are missing pieces to scientific and theological understanding that prevent us from theorizing conclusively. Regardless of what the 700 Club tells you, Carl.
Posted by ROCKTIME on Mar 23, 2003 at 8:38 AM Hi Joe,
Thought you might be interested in this article since it is by Slavoj Zizek.
Love, Stizz
Posted by Joe on Mar 23, 2003 at 3:19 PM “ìThe liberty we prize is not Americaís gift to the world, it is Godís gift to humanity.î Indeed, and the United States just happens to be the chosen instrument for distributing this gift.”
This is such a true statement. Nobody wants Sadaam in power, however, throwing bombs on innocent civilians will not get rid of him. It will only breed more hate, which, in turn, will turn right back on the U.S.
It is also sickening how the American public is ready to buy into whatever the president or allies say. Like sheep lead to the slaughter…
Posted by N.C. on Mar 23, 2003 at 6:19 PM Rocktime,
When you ask me to consider that “...religion is simply a means to understand what we dont know,” clearly you mean for me to reconsider Christ/Christianity.But… I do KNOW Christ. I know that I know that I know that I know that He is my savior and my Lord. (see Job 19:25)
Renouncing Him would be like renouncing myself. He exists as clearly as I do, though my existence is at His pleasure.You also state that religion (again you mean in addressing me Christianity) has been, “passed down from generation to generation. They believed because the people they loved and trusted told them the teachings of the Bible were true.”
Many have come to faith in the Lord without such generational teaching, myself included.You also state:
“That fact (that religion teaches positive principles) does not mean all the basic tenets of ANY religion are correct or even remotely true.”There are many who deceive and many who are deceived (see Matthew 24:24 for starters), yet none have claimed to be the truth, the way, and the life and risen from death to prove it.
Many sceptics have come to faith, Rocktime, by challenging God, with the willingness to be convinced, to show them that He exists. You might try a similar path. If the divinity of Christ is a fable you have lost nothing, but if you come to know Him as Lord you have gained everything.
One such man who took such a path wrote a book titled, “The Case for Christ.” I have forgotten the author’s name (a former Chicago Tribune reporter). He began his effort in an attempt to discredit Christianity. He finished a Christian.Carl :-)!
Posted by Carl Snodgrass on Mar 23, 2003 at 8:19 PM N.C. from USA quotes: ““The liberty we prize is not America’s gift to the world, it is God’s gift to humanity.” Indeed, and the United States just happens to be the chosen instrument for distributing this gift.”
THEN N.C. GOES ON TO COMMENT:
This is such a true statement. Nobody wants Sadaam in power, however, throwing bombs on innocent civilians will not get rid of him. It will only breed more hate, which, in turn, will turn right back on the U.S.On December 8th, 1941 the United States declared war against the Empire of Japan. Two days later Germany and Italy declared war against the United States.
N.C., Did we breed more hate by going to war against one of the WWII axis powers? Or was it already the intention of the fascist powers of Europe to rule the world by their warped creed?
By the way N.C. did you notice that the markets in Bagdad are open. The civilians feel safe enough from American and British ordinance to shop.
As far as people being led like sheep to be slaughtered I suggest you seek out an emigrant from Kurdistan to America and ask him/her about slaughters.
Posted by Carl Snodgrass on Mar 23, 2003 at 8:29 PM I agree absolutely. The American administration’s threat to international community and life on this planet is horribly frightening. I hope those opposing it will stand firm.
Posted by Ute Saito on Mar 24, 2003 at 1:19 PM Ute from Portland writes: “The American administration’s threat to international community and life on this planet is horribly frightening.”
What international community?
Posted by Carl Snodgrass on Mar 24, 2003 at 4:49 PM Our support for Israel completely undermines our promises of liberty and freedom for anybody but ourselves. What is missing from this war is legitimacy. Neither do we support liberty for all in Israel but we do not support it here either. If we did, we would be a direct democracy and this war would have been put to a popular vote. . The democracy we live in now is a pale shadow of the legitimacy and respect attainable without a political hieracrhy whose actions belie their words and turn ‘war’ into ‘peace’ and ‘freedom’ into ‘smart bombs’. What is needed right now is a political party whose sole mission is direct democracy.
Posted by John on Mar 25, 2003 at 12:11 PM HI MYNAME IS YAJARRY AND I AM 17YRS OLD FROM NEW JERSEY. MY OPINION TOWARDS THIS WAR IS, AM TOTALLY ON BUSH’S SIDE BUT THIS WAR IS INCREDIBLY FRIGHTNING MANY PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD. I THINK THAT BIN LADDIN AND SADDAM ARE GOING TO GET TOGHETHER AND HARM MANY PEOPLE.
Posted by YAJARRY JEREZ on Mar 25, 2003 at 12:11 PM One of the biggest problems with the “free Iraq” argument is that Bush didn’t begin using it until AFTER his “Iraq is helping Al Qaida” and “Iraq is building a nuclear bomb to shoot at us” arguments failed. And while actually liberating the people of Iraq from a tyrannial (formerly US backed) dictator could be a noble goal, cruise missiles and conquest are not the way to do it.
Posted by Aaron Hopkins on Mar 25, 2003 at 4:41 PM John from NY writes: “Our support for Israel completely undermines our promises of liberty and freedom for anybody but ourselves. What is missing from this war is legitimacy. Neither do we support liberty for all in Israel but we do not support it here either. If we did, we would be a direct democracy and this war would have been put to a popular vote. . The democracy we live in now is a pale shadow of the legitimacy and respect attainable without a political hieracrhy whose actions belie their words and turn ‘war’ into ‘peace’ and ‘freedom’ into ‘smart bombs’. What is needed right now is a political party whose sole mission is direct democracy.”
A lot of ignorance in such a short posting John, but I will do my best to correct you.
Regarding our support for Israel, “I will bless those who bless you and curse him who curses you,” God to Abraham Genesis 12:3. The Bush administration stated in August of 2001 that they advocated the establishment of a Palestinian state in Judea and Samaria (the West Bank). Days later the 911 attacks occured. Just last week the Bush administration again in support of PM Blair stated they would establish a Palestinian State. Keep a vigilant watch.
Arabs serve in the Israeli Knesset (Parliment).
Democracies do not work. See the history of Athens and the writings of our founders including the populist Jefferson.
We live in a Republic.
There is a time for war there is a time for peace. See Ecclesiastes chapter 3. Would you fight if cornered by three men with knives in an alley whose clear intent was to kill you or would you negotiate? We are fighting to keep those ‘three men’ with clear intent from expanding their arsenal and expanding their abuse.
Again direct democracy does not work, but brings chaos, and is often a ‘code word’ for socialism, e.g. The People’s Democractic Republic of North Korea, the Democratic Republic of Germany (the former East Germany.)
Finally, John, you should sue your educators for they failed you miserably. However, I infer that you are an adult now and thus accountable for your own education. Get busy!!!
Carl :-)!
Posted by Carl Snodgrass on Mar 25, 2003 at 5:48 PM All you lib-lab hypocrites think you have a lock on the truth as you spout off on all your conspiracies. Why don’t you ever mention that you, we, everyone on this godforsaken planet is responsible for the mess we are in? The violent cry for help from the third world “oppressed” cum Islamic fanatic has been brewing for decades and YOU, the so-called peace advocate, only enabled it! All you anti-Bushies can say is that NOTHING should be done - “Peace, man!” To the average American, who feels afraid that he/she will be the next victim of another Sept. 11 or the average Iraqi who can’t live a normal life without the threat of torture from his governement - that ain’t gonna cut it!
You are the failures because if you wanted to avoid the “imperialism”, if you wanted to avoid a Bush from becoming president of the most powerful military in the world, and if you wanted to avoid a “war for oil,” then YOU would have given the world more meaningful solutions to the current crisis than - “Peace, Man!”
At least have some kind of a precedent to fall on other than the credibility of Mr. Clinton because the fact that Mr. Michael Moore is your current spokesman is a pathetic joke. Admit it - the world cannot live at peace with a Saddam Hussien and a George Bush in power. Rather than confronting the Bush government, I submit that you put your money where your mouth is: develop strategies to peacefully end the world’s tyrannies (Castro, Hussien, Kim Ill Jong, etc). That would be a meaningful solution everyone wants AND it would remove the “Bush” threat before his government wages war with the world.
Posted by J on Mar 25, 2003 at 9:40 PM I agree that a new political order is
emerging at this time . The right-wing American attitude ,that US foreign policy is not responsible for Sept. 11th 2001,will only increase
such incidents. This war in Iraq will only add fuel to fire rather than .
Posted by Maurice Moore on Mar 26, 2003 at 12:58 PM Rebecca-
Best thing I have read about the war thus far.
Andrew
Posted by Rebecca Smith on Mar 26, 2003 at 2:47 PM It is refreshing to share a behavioral view of The World Today.
Indeed, the “War on Terror” has become the Emancipation of Terror.
Posted by michael on Mar 27, 2003 at 7:10 AM Anyone notice how quiet Hillary Clinton is these days? No, you don’t like to think that she might actually support the war, Huh?
Posted by MILLY VANILLI on Mar 27, 2003 at 10:57 AM This article was dope, rogues! Slavoj sure shows his being a philosopher and telekinetic-analyst! It’s true that we as sycophants of the free world should not quarrel over issues of “secondary importance” (dictionary.com) in light of more important schemes in this war on terror ordeal!
I’m sorry for calling you guys a bad name in my other response on N. Korea, my bad-yo!
Posted by Kris Kilgroe on Mar 27, 2003 at 2:57 PM I heard Dr. Zizek speak at UCLA two years ago, am reading his book on 09/11 and looking at this new piece, I am once again impressed by his sophistication, perspicacity, good sense, wit (who else would have both the erudition and the guts to compare George W to one of Lacan’s more nutty patients?), and ultimately, his very real empathy and humanity. I always feel that I learn something by reading Zizek, and I come away from him challenged and—strange as it might seem—empowered. Danke sehr, Professor Zizek fur Ihre Worte und Gedanken.
Posted by Stephanie Hammer on Mar 31, 2003 at 9:54 PM drummeroy said check out david icke. Heh.
<URL: http://www.publiceye.org/Icke/Table of Contents.htm >
From Will Offley:
David Icke And The Politics Of Madness
Where The New Age Meets The Third Reich
David Icke And The Politics Of Madness
Where The New Age Meets The Third Reich
by Will Offley
February 29, 2000
On the face of it, few people would credit a retired soccer player who rants about a world takeover by blood-drinking lizards from outer space as being much of a threat to democracy. And as a general rule, they would probably be right.
David Icke, however, is an exception to that rule.
Icke, 48, is a native of Leicester, England. For five years he played professionally for the Coventry City and Hereford United soccer teams until forced to retire by arthritis. He subsequently went on to become a sports announcer for BBC-TV. For three years from 1988 to 1991 he was national spokesperson for the British Green Party, until he began a political evolution that was to begin with his expulsion from the Greens and wind up with his current involvement with anti-Semitism, neofascism, and lizards from Mars.1
At first this evolution seemed relatively harmless. Icke began to flirt seriously with New Age theories, and then began to act on them. He dressed in turquoise, and began to call himself the “son of godhead”. But by the time his book “The Robot’s Rebellion” was printed in 1994, his trajectory had begun to take quite a different course. In 1996, the British magazine “Left Green Perspectives” wrote that this book “indicated a convergence of New Age thinking with Nazi philosophy. Casting aside his pat concerns about the environment, Icke enthusiastically embraced the classic Nazi conspiracy theory, alleging that the world is controlled by a secret cadre of “The Elite.” He openly endorsed TheProtocols of the Elders of Zion, the Tsarist anti-Semitic forgery that informed Hitler’s notion of a global Jewish conspiracy.”
The following year Icke brought out another book, “...and the truth shall set you free.” This one, however, was self-published, as its content was so objectionable that his publisher refused to have it printed. And small wonder. The book repeated Icke’s previous claims that the Protocolswere true, and went on to state: “I strongly believe that a small Jewish clique which has contempt for the mass of Jewish people worked with non-Jews to create the First World War, the Russian Revolution…
Posted by Michael Pugliese on Apr 4, 2003 at 10:04 PM Zizek’s commentary is one of the best I have seen. I think he is right, it is not enough to state that this is a war of imperial ambition. All kinds of such wars, both direct and by proxy, have waged under pre-existing rationalizations for their necessity.
It is more fundamentally an attempt to remake the foundations of American power, and to accomplish this the Bush Regime must train the American public to fear and hate new enemies, and to accept new forms of aggression as necessary for its own survival. Properly present the Enemy to the public, and no transgression of pre-existing laws will be unacceptable.
Posted by Mike on Apr 9, 2003 at 6:05 PM There is no evidence of a Saddam-Al Qaeda link. See: http://politics.guardian.co.uk/attacks/story/0,1320,885288,00.html
Regime change and pre-emptive attacks are illegal in international law. See: http://www.robincmiller.com/iraq6-fr.htm http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/forum/forumnew98.php Under international law every nation has the right to self-determination, sovereignty and territorial integrity. The UN and its charter were founded to prevent colonial and world wars so that powerful nations would not decide to attack, overthrow and occupy weaker nations however distasteful those regimes. Part of self-determination is deciding on the form of government. There is no international law that says every country must be a democracy. No country has the right to determine the form of government of any other country regardless of the nature of the regime. That is clear in international law. It is a governance problem for the Iraqi people to determine their political leadership and form of government even if they have to have a civil war to do so. Just like how we do not like the fact that criminals have constitutional and due process rights, but it would be worse if the government could arbitrarily arrest, imprison and invade citizens’ privacy.
The U.S. is directly responsible for the oppression of the Iraqi people as we facilitated the rise to power of Saddam Hussein and the Ba’ath Party in 1963 when they overthrew General Qassem because he nationalized Iraq’s oil industry. See University of Denver, Colorardo Political Science Professor Wadi Muhaisen’s 11/22/02 Rocky Mountain News article, “America’s Shameful Mideast History”: http://www.endthewar.org/frontps/Op-eds/shameful.htm The U.S. then provided Saddam Hussein with the chemical and biological weapons technology used against the Kurds and Iranians as payback against the Ayatollah Khomeini for overthrowing the Shah of Iran and taking the U.S. embassy hostages in 1979. The U.S. also does not care about extending democracy in the Arab world. Why are we not advocating regime change and democracy for the brutal dictatorships in Saudi Arabia (15 out 19 of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudis but no Iraqis and the Wahabi tribe in Saudi Arabia is the biggest sponsor of Al Qaeda) and Egypt not to mention the plutocratic monarchies in the rest of the Arab world such as Jordan, Kuwait, Qatar, Yemen, United Arab Emirates, etc.? Because they provide us cheap oil.
Posted by An observer of White House and media "news" on Apr 10, 2003 at 5:04 AM The anti-war protesters and peace activists do have a strategy to defeat terrorism besides war and violence by treating terrorist acts as crimes against humanity and pursuing internationally coordinated intelligence and criminal extradition and prosecution to uncover, capture and imprison terrorist cell members hiding in over 60 countries. See Hampshire College political science professor Michael Klare’s articles, “How to Defeat Bin Laden,” and “So, What’s the Answer?”: http://dir.salon.com/news/feature/2001/09/13/justice/index.html http://www.progressive.org/0901/klar1101.html
Posted by An observer of White House and media "news" on Apr 10, 2003 at 5:08 AM Some Iraqis are celebrating. TV news (ABC Nightline) today is also reporting that fighting continues in other parts of Baghdad and throughout Iraq. We don’t know if it is a majority or minority who feel liberated or occupied. The key question is whether or not guerrilla warfare will continue and, if so, for how long. Even President Bush and Vice President Cheney warn that the war is not over yet. The leaders of the Shiite Muslim majority are already boycotting the U.S. talks for the Iraq occupation government and calling for immediate withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq. See: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u;=/nm/20030409/wl_nm/iraq_scir ri_dc_1 Notice how President Bush is not calling for immediate elections not even within two years.
U.S.-sponsored Iraqi exile leaders are now calling for the denationalization of Iraqi oil industry and selling it to foreign investors. See: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u;=/afp/20030405/bs_afp/iraq_wa ar_opposition_oil_030405214324 This war has always really been about oil. See Hampshire College Political Science Professor Michael Klare’s article “Oiling the Wheels of War”: http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20021007&s=klare This is why the U.S. wants to cancel the Russian, French and Chinese contracts with Iraq to develop the oil reserves and also does not want the UN to manage the oil-for-food program any longer. See: http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/printstory.hts/business/1856839 So much for the Oil being the wealth of the Iraqi “people.” So much for bringing “democracy” to the Iraqi people.
Islamic fundamentalists will probably have a better chance at getting elected after the “interim” occupation government actually allows the Iraqi people to vote whenever that may be, especially if the oil wells and reserves get sold to foreign investors.
We also will see in the future whether or not terrorist attacks will increase here and abroad over the rising Anti-American hatred in the Arab world due to the Iraq war.
Posted by An observer of White House and media "news" on Apr 10, 2003 at 5:15 AM By the way, the United States government is a democracy not a republic. While it may have been a republic during the times of the Founding Fathers when only white male property owners could vote, with the amendments to the Constitution following the Civil War, the women’s suffrage act and the voting rights act, the right to vote was extended to all U.S. citizens regardless of gender, race, property ownership, income status (due to inability to pay poll taxes) or literacy. Politicians are elected at all levels of government. The electoral college chooses the President based on the winner of the popular vote for each state. In a democracy, the majority rules although minorities still have constitutional, voting and due process rights.
Posted by An observer of White House and media "news" on Apr 10, 2003 at 5:22 AM On the challenges of humanitarian assistance and looting and the corresponding impact on the Iraqi people’s support for our “liberation,” see New York Times columnist Thomas Friedman’s 4/9/03 article, “Hold Your Applause”:
Posted by An observer of White House and media "news" on Apr 10, 2003 at 5:29 AM Every day I become more convinced that hypocrisy and corruption are the only “real” motives behind this war. It appears that the U.S. president and his allies are trying to absorb as much wealth and control as possible, here and in other countries. I don’t think they really believe actions like this will make us safer. I believe they want us to be threatened so they can justify expanding budgets and cosolidation of militant power. Many people are in denial or too scared to speak up. I am too scared to not speak up. I am convinced that Bush must be removed from leadership of our country or the future of the human race is in great peril. In my opinion, the best way to support the troops is to impeach Bush as soon as possible. Let him promote his fake religious economic agenda with his own money and life.
Sincerely
Jeff Pickens
Stillwater, OK
Posted by Jeff Pickens on Apr 15, 2003 at 8:19 PM See New York Times article on Iraqis protesting U.S. occupation:
Posted by an observer of White House and media "news" on Apr 16, 2003 at 3:45 PM Wow. This article really sucked. It made me wonder about things I didn’t want to think about.
I’m going to go buy a yurt and move into the mountains. Hopefully I can live out my life as a hermit without harassment before I start being treated directly (not indirectly) as a slave.
Maybe its people like me that will assist in the failure of our culture, but I see the glass as half empty with a crack in it. People have been made to ignorant and too controllable. I don’t think there is any coming back from where we are now, its only down hill.
Nobody does anything anymore. Holding up signs saying “bush lies” doesn’t do shit. I think the only way to get people to listen is with teeth, nails, rocks, and crowbars forming together against the opposition.
People are either too scared and/or ignorant to do anything.
The problem is the majorities voice rules, even if it is being told what to say.
Hopefully I will get to see the next star wars before the world ends. :(
Posted by andrew on Jun 12, 2003 at 4:22 PM To Aron from NY:
You said “ only hope voters in the US will have the good sense of removing this fool with their votes.”
One problem.
He wasn’t elected in the first place. So, you can bet he’ll probably “not” be elected again.
Posted by andrew on Jun 12, 2003 at 4:30 PM Democracy for Iraq? Why would the Bush administration want for Iraq that which it is undermining in the US? The oil belonging to a democracy would be difficult to control. The appearance of a democracy, yes, real democracy, I doubt it.
Posted by Steve on Aug 3, 2003 at 2:54 PM Ganz Gute, Mein Herr, I am so afraid You right. we are being blind sided, and there are two few to win the war, but, you have done your part. Thanks
Posted by Lloy Penka on Aug 8, 2003 at 9:38 PM Thank you, Slavoj Zizek. The Hutton Enquiry is unfolding here and the lies that Blair and Bush used are ever more blatantly clear. To Carl Snodgrass, You are a Christian so you will know that what Jesus Christ said and did is contained in a few short chapters in the New Testament. Love,peace, justice and democracy. Dyana
Posted by dyana on Sep 9, 2003 at 11:43 AM <<The focus should be on what effectively goes on in our culture, on what kind of society is emerging here as the result of the ìwar on terror.î >>
well… i guess we should kind of focus on the people dying in this conflict waged by warmongers and unwanted by the people who voted for them
every day a US soldier dies and several iraqi civilians have to pay for that… either by being stuffed into p.o.w.-prisons which are pretty much the same as under saddam or by being killed by a nervous patrol
i don’t think these people need theories… i think they need their freedom back and support from the UN… this will not happen as long as the US are present
just my 0,02 euros ;)
Posted by tomulus on Sep 27, 2003 at 9:25 AM Tomulus, Andrew, both on target, pardon the pun.
Who is to say the next election won’t be fixed? They threw the first one and it worked. And, so far, all the signs are there for another one. Frightening.
The only real hope is to vote out those who supported or currently support Bush.
Posted by neil on Sep 30, 2003 at 4:05 AM hello, i would love to say that this is a load of shit and hope all the iraqies and americans die! frankly i hate them all, the world is to populated anyhow so big fucking deal, i am not iraq nor any ethnic, i am a vamp. i hate all this ill mannered shit.
Posted by chris, on Oct 1, 2003 at 10:42 PM the holy bible states this amazen peice.not sure where. but old testement.GOD says COME LET US REASONE TOGETHER. Look the m0st high GOD is willing to listen to us and instead what do you you all do.listen to mr bush. GO FIGGER.
Posted by marksaxon on Oct 31, 2003 at 6:21 PM SORRY JUST TO ADD A WEE BIT MORE. I KNO0W IM NOT THE BRIGHTEST KID ON THE BLOCK BUT THEN IS GORGIE. B ANYWAY JUST TO SAY. BEING WAY OVER OR DOWN UNDER HERE GOOD OLE kiwi land N.Z . To me boils down to this the holy word again quote . the love of money is the root of ALL EVIL.unquote Henever said some evil or the root of fraud or embezz lement or thieft or war for oil BUT the root of ALL EVIL LORD you are so so right. thank you americar for letting me have my wee say GOD bless your hopeful nation.
Posted by mark saxon ( GENTLE) on Oct 31, 2003 at 6:55 PM Don’t miss the discussion at
http://www.vanguardnewsnetwork.com
and visit the ‘Reader Mail’ page for further comments
Posted by Mark Konrad on Nov 18, 2003 at 4:02 AM Money money money.
By holding Saddam Hussein as a prisoner for many months before he was removed from the grave-like hole he was kept in(somewhat similar to a Viet Cong “tiger cage” for humans), and in other places where he was kept captive, Carlyle Group was determined to force Saddam somehow to divulge his portion of at least a two-part series of codes into Saddam’s vast ownership of worldwide properties.
The other half of the secret codes has been kept by Saddam’s half-brother who resided in Switzerland. That relative, according to European sources, made public statements in the 1990s, that were Saddam to be harmed or assassinated by the American CIA, that the relative would release secret records of the Bush Crime Family’s treason, requiring that they be subject to criminal prosecution, as shown by their worldwide 25 secret accounts.
Posted by Ian Ochnik on Dec 26, 2003 at 3:11 PM Hello to everybody who’s reading this. I’m from the same country that mr. Zizek is. I was looking for material for my homework about democracy in the USA and I stumbled upon this article. You’re screwed. And after the politicians deal with you and tame you, we’re next. Even the people outside USA don’t know either what’s happening, they don’t like you anway (->stereotypes). Say thanks to your dear president G. W. Bush for this. It’s your president that makes us laugh and cry at the same time. How could you let this happen? This “walking bush” wasn’t even elected! Don’t make the same mistake again, please. Maybe the title of this article should be “Yesterday, democracy, today Iraq… and I don’t even want to guess what’s next!” Have in mind who represents you in the world when you’ll go to cast a vote on next presidential elections.
Don’t think you’re the only one in trouble. I was born in 1984 - but it seems like I’m stuck in that year (I’ve read the Orwell’s 1984). We joined NATO last year. The politicians argued that we’re endangered and that NATO can provide us defense we couldn’t afford on our own. Who would we have to defend to? Italy, our neighbour country?
Oh, and one more thing. I finished reading Michael Moore’s Stupid White Men today and I’m shocked, I must say. Comparing to your country, my country is a paradise (although I cannot say how long this might last)! Some things that MM wrote in his book are as hard as like the 9/11 really happened, to belive.
Posted by Martin on Jan 2, 2004 at 1:54 PM Page 1 of 1 pages -
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Posted by ret on Apr 4, 2003 at 1:11 AM 
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