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YES YES YES!!! While I don’t know if any of the above is true, I will say Arnold Schwarznegger for President!! Finally a Pres. who can join the front lines!!
Posted by Fast Eddie D of Florida on May 19, 2003 at 2:01 PM
Great article. It highlights all the major reasons why we need to get rid of Bush in the next election. We need a president like Dennis Kucinich to re-engage the nation in international law, respect for the UN, and a fair and humane domestic policy. Anyone would be better than Bush, but this is the only candidate who offers real change.
www.kucinich.us
Posted by Nathaniel on May 20, 2003 at 6:59 AM
The corporate media is convincing the gullible American public that finding WMD is as irrelevant as the UN and global cooperation. We have to fight back. Great plans for bringing truth to the media can be found at
www.tvnewslies.org Read it all the way through… lots of info, downloads, and plans for activism.
Posted by Reggie Avraham on May 20, 2003 at 8:03 AM
Since -3- weeks ago, I have been wondering why none of the Security Council members condemn this invasion.
The leaders of the invading forces
ought to be held accountable for
their actions in Iraq, the human sufferings, the deaths to thousands of Iraqi people….....
Posted by Irene Hui on May 20, 2003 at 11:45 AM
Ok, let’s just cut through some of the shit this fool wrote in the article. I must state up front that I didn’t support the military effort, mostly because I didn’t buy the nonsense Duby & Co. were shoveling. If we were really interested in dealing with direct threats, Syria and Saudi Arabia would be in flames right now and we would increase funding/security for the containment of Russian nukes.
That said, I find it interesting how we are subjected to so much controversy on the WMD issue. Ok, I get it: Dubya pulled a fast one, there’s little/any there, and it really was about regime change.
But doesn’t the end justify the means? Even if we don’t like the way Dubya has bullied the majority of the world, we have to at least be happy Hussein and his brats are gone. On this there can be NO debate!! Hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of people have been raped, tortured and murdered all in the name of a sick despot and his cronies. I don’t think Hussein had anything on Hitler, but they would’ve certainly got along famously.
As for the UN, I wanted more international cooperation in this matter than just the Coalition of the Greedy and Opportunitstic, but the UN is and has been a joke for DECADES. Where has their spine been all along in this? Why have they allowed Hussein to flourish? Could it be because “allies” like France value their oil contracts too much? Could it be that “allies” like France have been funneling banned weapons and parts into Iraq for the past 8 years or so? Quit trying to paint the UN like it’s some kind of noble, effective and relevant body. It is none of these, and it’s time has long since passed.
Posted by Gary on May 20, 2003 at 1:38 PM
An article unafraid to say the unpopular truth. The Iraqis aren’t fairing any better. Sadaam isn’t really gone…just away. No WMD. More hatred towards the US which will spark more terrorist attacks here and abroad. What was accomplished? Simply better access to oil, just as insightful thinkers knew all along.
Posted by Henrietta A. on May 20, 2003 at 4:16 PM
Congratulations on your article. Corporate news media outlets fail to follow or point out the the manipulation of facts this current administrations propagated to justify it’s war. Freedom for the Iraqi people is of course a good thing, but wasn’t the justification for our fighting this war. When an administration cares less about facts but more about it’s own political agenda (Pax America) then it’s time to call for a regime change here at home. History in the end will judge those currently in office, but can we afford to wait that long?
Posted by Eric Sorensen on May 21, 2003 at 7:11 AM
Amazing how many anti-American citizens call themselves Democrats. This was a just was, even without WMD’s. Being hated by the UN, France, etal is a badge of honor. Its great seeing you lefty pinkos all tied up in knots over the great Bush presidency. Long live GW Bush!!!!
Posted by Vin on May 21, 2003 at 9:43 AM
Vin, I am guessing that you are appling to the current adminstraiton for you very own chunk of Iraq and secert “Skull and Bones” tatto on your ass. But you should take off your Swastika boxers becomes some of those boys are Jews. Your daddy probably beat you until you finished your Ivy league degree which he had to pay extra to see your C average. Don’t lose your cool when you dad kicks it he will most likely leave you a very generous trust as long as he doesn’t find out about your stint as the frat house hole in the wall. Grow a set off balls and wake up to the evil and corruption on all sides. Maybe you like it and you are probably one of those bastards who goes to church and still picks up hookers while covering your massive coke habit by stealing from your company and controls your and kids with violence because that is all your dad every showed you.
Hope you grow up and wake up.
Posted by E on May 21, 2003 at 12:51 PM
Dear E..Thanks for validating my right wing Ivy league prognosis. You folks on the left are losing it!
You ought to move to Cuba. I mean seriously, I’m a working class stiff educated at state schools, and guess what…I don’t believe the welfare state that you Democrats have foisted on us for the past 30 years works…in fact it sucks. GWB will go down in history as one of the Great presidents. Get used to it. Your diatribe just points out the shallow and outmoded thinking that the left has adopted..it’s not thinking at all, its just attack the right. Good luck E, you and your commie Democrat buddies are going to need it.
Posted by Vin on May 21, 2003 at 2:19 PM
Vin:
Sure Bush will live a long life, perhaps. But what about the US? How long will you be the nr. 1 superstate in this world?
Posted by Korpatsov on May 22, 2003 at 6:37 AM
The ignorant rant of someone named vin shows how insecure, simple minded morons such as he are probably as dangerous to this country as george w. yes the freeing of the iraqi people is good, but vins small brain can’t grasp the simple concept that the public was lied to as to wmd in iraq. typical of said morons, vin must resort to insults because of his frustration that all in this country don’t share his view. perhaps he should move to cuba where everyone thinks the same because they have to. vin why don’t you go crack open a beer, scratch your dumb ass and watch the fox news.
Posted by john on May 22, 2003 at 7:00 AM
Gary from Chicago posted on 5/20 that the ends justifes the means. It seems that some of the lessons of America post-Watergate have been forgotten or ignored.
By stating that geting rid of Saddam makes lying to the American public acceptable is ludicrous. Beyond the “need to know” issues of secrecy, a construct to safeguard true secrets of the state, does this imply that the American public need not be told why it is sending its sons and daughters into peril or why we are spending $70B for 6 months of reconstruction without a tab for the remaining “as long as it takes”? Are these also state secrets? Or is it as it seems: political action?
Posted by Jeff on May 22, 2003 at 9:29 AM
Vin:
Bush Jr. will go down as one of the Great (note the capital G) presidents? Right along with Reagan, right? Because we all know how Grrrreat Reagan was. Yes, that’s right; history books will speak of Bushivus II in honor and respect because after his administration decimated international law, they continued to destroy our civil liberties with the second Patriot Act. And then us “lefty pinko commies” will be ashamed that we ever doubted his greatness when we end up in Guantanamo.
Posted by Amanda on May 22, 2003 at 11:12 AM
I love getting you lefties riled up! I love Fox too—fair and balanced! WMD’s don’t matter, what matters is the GREAT Pres. Bush is pursuing terrorists everywhere, before they get us. Iraq was a just war just for the fact we liberated a country where the people were routinely beaten, killed, raped, etc…..by a despotic dictator. Good luck folks, The Demolosers are toast in 04 and then we’ll mop up Hillary in 08. Keep the feedback coming, my narrow right wing mind is expanding oh so much from reading this left wing bs.
Posted by Vin on May 22, 2003 at 2:00 PM
I forgot to mention, but if any you folks out there are little boys who want to help me find the WMDs in my pants, just let me know. Oh yeah, who’s your inspector, baby?
Posted by Vin on May 22, 2003 at 2:17 PM
pathetic…further proves my point about you left wingers.
Posted by vin on May 22, 2003 at 2:27 PM
Hmm, anyone remember Panama 1989? Who started that war, oh yeah it wus George Bush Sr., and how did he start it? He annoyed the hell out of the country until an incident occured, and from that incident he would have “Just Cause” (no pun intended), to start a war. Does any of this sound redundant in light of the current events? The Bush “Dynasty” kills without discretion, they do whatever they can to take down the “evil” dictators, after Supporting them in earlier years. Be it Manuel Noriega or Saddam Hussien, the motives are the same, and the excuses are getting old. Bush (Jr.) brainwashed the vulnerable parts of the public into thinking they needed to go to war, then cut off Real media access to the event; I wouldn’t be surprised if in a few years it was revealed that he did no better than his father in panama (4000 innocent Panamanian civilians were slaughtered, then burned on beaches and buried in mass graves).
Posted by Wukurd on May 22, 2003 at 5:34 PM
Vin. You over-estimate us “lefties”. Not all of us who disagree with the war that President Bush initiated are against all things started 30 years ago by democrates. I, for one, am anti-bush, relatively anti-welfare, anti-afirmative action, anti-slavery reparations. I am also anti-bush tax cut for himself and other wealthy americans, despite the fact that I am one. You judge an entire group of people based on a single social-political title. Just like some racists in mississippi accusing Hoover and the entire FBI of being atheist commys back when he was the head honcho of the FBI. Or on a more extreme note, hitler judging jews, gypsies, gays…because of social titles. Grow up vin. The world doesn’t need more half-witted parameciums.
Posted by Dave S on May 22, 2003 at 6:46 PM
So Vin is gay? Keep your pants zipped vin!
Posted by k. teaque on May 23, 2003 at 8:13 AM
or perhaps a pedophile with a taste for little boys?
Posted by k.teaque on May 23, 2003 at 8:15 AM
It’s like I said to you commies, I’ve got something that’s about ready to explode if you don’t send the troops in (and yes, by troops I mean a whole mess of boy scouts who need to earn their badges in the exploration of my pants).
Posted by Vin on May 23, 2003 at 10:02 AM
Same old “blame America first” syndrome. What a pity!
Posted by roypendy on May 23, 2003 at 9:31 PM
Whilst Blair is a conman, pure and simple, with a secret right wing agenda hidden behind fake sincerity and mouthed platitudes, GWB is just a moron like Vin and Co. He is a glove puppet to corrupt and evil politicians like cheney and rumsfeld. These punks think with their genitals first and imagine the world should love them just for being shoot em up cowboys. You can scream all you like about everybody else being a pinko because they believe in what are values of fairness and freedom, you cant change the fact you are the real Nazi’s of this century.
Posted by H Garse on May 24, 2003 at 1:33 PM
I have a message to almost everyone on this board: Do you really think that Bush is a “nazi”? You don’t have to be a Bush-supporter to realize how crazy that statement is. Bush is no where near to the Nazis, as a clear-thinking individual I feel bad that you were deprived a proper education on what the nazis were actually like.
Just because you disagree with someone it doesn’t make them “evil” or a “conman”, ok?
Don’t let Vin rile you up, he shouldn’t be taken seriously.
Posted by Brad on May 24, 2003 at 6:35 PM
We all know what the Nazi’s were like, it is well documented. Unfortunately a lot of modern killings are not despite this being the century of information. Maybe you should visit Gaza and see what is going on there, the terrorism perpetrated by Sharon using US weapons. Little kids shot at and blown apart just for daring to throw stones. Small girls killed or blinded ducking in their classrooms as bullets fly in through the windows, thousands of orange and lemon trees levelled as ‘they provide cover for terrorists’. Thousands of men held without charge in camps where they are beaten and tortured. Yes, I agree it is nowhere on the scale of what Hitler did. Yes, I have read all about the rapes, the torture , the ‘medical experiments’ and the mass killings. I have wept at the horrors inflicted by man on his fellow men. However, I would argue that modern evil is just as bad. You can dress it up, and get the media to provide the cover stories or to ignore the real events altogether. To me it is not a numbers game. What is worse? A thousand people butchered on the streets of the Congo or the daily murder of palestinians by Israeli ‘security forces’. According to some even Hitler was a moderate in the numbers game if you compare him to Mr Pol Pot and his killing fields or Uncle Joe Stalin. Perhaps those who experienced the rape of Nanking at the hands of the Japanese have their own candidates for masters of evil. Perhaps our anger at our failure to stop modern atrocities makes us make unfair comparisons between past and present, but at the end of the day an atrocity is an atrocity whether committed a thousand times or a million times.
Posted by H Garse on May 25, 2003 at 7:38 AM
Garse, you made some good points when talking about Pol Pot etc. But you left a lot out, first of all, everything you said goes both ways about the Israelis and the Palestinians. Both are committing terrorist acts on eachother. But you mentioned that Sharon uses US weapons, I don’t know how true that is but he uses US money to make weapons, anyway. If Israel was denied the protection of the United States and its resources, there would be no Israel. The Israelis tried a peace Prime Minister and both the Palestinians and the Israelis didn’t like it, so now they have a whacko in Sharon in charge. But look, Arafat hates Israel, he doesn’t want there to be an Israel and he wants to push the Isreaelis into the Medit. Sea. The US is doing something very noble in helping to protect Israel, something that is very popular in America,
Posted by Brad on May 25, 2003 at 8:52 AM
I don’t like Arafat, he is a vain conceited man but I reject the idea that he wants to drive the Israelis into the sea. Even the nasty extremists in Hamas and Jihad have accepted that Israel has a right to exist. They just violently disagree that Israel has a right to invade their lands and build settlements and destroy their houses. The old line about wanting to drive Israelis into the sea is straight out the extreme right wing Sharon book of political propoganda. There are many in Israel who know that line is a lie. Unfortunately the powers that be allow that lie to be perpetuated because they don’t want to ‘give an inch’ to the Arabs. That is why they sent one of their most anti-Arab guys to Washington this week, a tactic that is supposed to make Sharon look like a moderate battling against parties who want to ‘transfer’ i.e. drive the palestinians out of even what little territories they have left. In Kosovo it was called ethnic cleansing and we went to war over it. It seems to be an unfortunate fact of modern politics that the extremists dictate the agenda and in Israels case they are in power. Fair enough, the US should protect Israel but remember Israel has over two hundred nuclear weapons and chemical and biological facilities. No Arab nation would even consider going against that kind of power. Israels actions dont kill terrorists, they create more and more. I can assure you all the F16s, the apaches and the majority of the hardware used by the IDF had made in US stamped on it. Check your export lists and you will find this out. Just because a policy is popular in the US does not make its consequences right. I would argue that most of the US citizens who support those policies are not aware of those consequences. Personally I dont have any axe to grind but I do choose to condemn criminals and killers on all sides. I hope for a day where freedom and justice is a right for everyone not a convenient catchphrase for politicians who sanction murder with the next breath.
Posted by H Garse on May 26, 2003 at 3:29 AM
Garse, I can’t believe you think that Arafat and the Arab world actually want Israel to exist. Of course they’re going to say that because they have to seem reasonable. Arafat would rather there be no Israel, there is no question about that.
Once again, all of the things you say Israel does, the Palestinians do back. Israel needs all of those things to protect themselves. Israel has fought a lot of wars in there short history and neighbors like Syria won’t acknowledge it exists.
You’re right about how just because something is popular doesn’t make it necessarily right, but this is, who will protect Israel if we don’t?
Posted by Brad on May 26, 2003 at 1:45 PM
First, it was Salvador Allende, in Chile, after Jo?o Goulart, in Brazil, then the Afeghanistan, and now, Irak. Who will be the next? Hugo Chavez, in Venezuela? There, there is much oil, why not?
Posted by John Smith on May 26, 2003 at 1:59 PM
Vin - take off your WWF shirt, put down the firecrackers, and chill with the booze. It doesn
Posted by G on May 26, 2003 at 8:11 PM
Brad, You are saying that the Palestinians leaders merely pretend to be reasonable. Yes, I do believe some of them would prefer Israel not to exist but it is a total lie to pretend that these people are the majority. On the other hand, most of the Israeli leaders do not even pretend. They would rather the palestinians didn’t exist. That is why they are openly calling for ethnic cleansing. Why can you not condemn this? Even the apparently moderate are unwilling to give up the land they are stealing everyday, in the name of settlements. Why are the palestinians not allowed to build on their own land? Why are no building permits issued to them even though they own the land? Why are their water supplies diverted to settlements? I am willing to stand up and condemn the barbaric suicide bombings and carnage against Israel as well. You appear to be unable to grasp the realities of life in the occupied territories and appear to justify israeli terrorism as being a response to palestinian terrorism. Lets just condemn it all because we are all human beings not matter what colour or creed.
Posted by H Garse on May 27, 2003 at 1:45 AM
I think that many Israelis are doing terrible things. But they’re not stealing land. It is land owned by the nation of Israel. Palestine is not a country. If Israel chooses to give away land, it’s their choice.
I want to make something clear, Sharon is a whacko, he shouldn’t be in power. I’m not lying when I say that most Palestinian leaders don’t want Israel. The Muslim world didn’t begin to recognize Israel as a nation until forty years after its birth, Syria still won’t.
Posted by Brad on May 27, 2003 at 11:23 AM
Good article. Scary, but good.
As for people that troll like a couple we could mention that are prowling aoruind here, dont give them the satisfaction of a reply. The only reason they post in the first place is to get a responce. Lonely people… but they still need to learn better manners.
Posted by Silvan on May 27, 2003 at 1:33 PM
Has anyone ever wondered how the “free” press can ignore facts like those stated in this article? The rest of the world has access to this information throught their local media, but not us. That is scary, especially when you consider that we are one of the most technologically advanced and powerful nations in the world.
Posted by Mary on May 28, 2003 at 9:06 AM
“As for people that troll like a couple we could mention that are prowling aoruind here, dont give them the satisfaction of a reply. The only reason they post in the first place is to get a responce”
Phui. Who would want a response on a discussion board. Much better to chant in chorus “Great article” “Bush sucks” and “Anyone who disagrees with us is ignorant and gullible”
Posted by Nus on May 28, 2003 at 12:11 PM
“Who would want a response on a discussion board. Much better to chant in chorus…” blah, blah, blah.
because, you know, it makes you seem so much more intelligent when all you do is post what someone has said and then call them out for being so un-Nus-like. and by the way, bush sucks (and you can quote me on that).
Posted by stuart on May 28, 2003 at 1:13 PM
You nailed it! Money, power, and intimidation now rule the USA. Only the backdoor media outlets have the backbone needed to expose the posers now in power.
Posted by Boneman on May 28, 2003 at 3:46 PM
Even Sharon has now uttered the so called taboo OCCUPATION word.
How can you suggest that Israel ‘owns’ the west bank and Gaza? Probably in the same way that saddam claimed to own kuwait or Germany claimed to own poland.
Posted by H Garse on May 30, 2003 at 9:21 AM
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Reader Comments
YES YES YES!!! While I don’t know if any of the above is true, I will say Arnold Schwarznegger for President!! Finally a Pres. who can join the front lines!!
Great article. It highlights all the major reasons why we need to get rid of Bush in the next election. We need a president like Dennis Kucinich to re-engage the nation in international law, respect for the UN, and a fair and humane domestic policy. Anyone would be better than Bush, but this is the only candidate who offers real change.
www.kucinich.us
The corporate media is convincing the gullible American public that finding WMD is as irrelevant as the UN and global cooperation. We have to fight back. Great plans for bringing truth to the media can be found at
www.tvnewslies.org Read it all the way through… lots of info, downloads, and plans for activism.
Since -3- weeks ago, I have been wondering why none of the Security Council members condemn this invasion.
The leaders of the invading forces
ought to be held accountable for
their actions in Iraq, the human sufferings, the deaths to thousands of Iraqi people….....
Ok, let’s just cut through some of the shit this fool wrote in the article. I must state up front that I didn’t support the military effort, mostly because I didn’t buy the nonsense Duby & Co. were shoveling. If we were really interested in dealing with direct threats, Syria and Saudi Arabia would be in flames right now and we would increase funding/security for the containment of Russian nukes.
That said, I find it interesting how we are subjected to so much controversy on the WMD issue. Ok, I get it: Dubya pulled a fast one, there’s little/any there, and it really was about regime change.
But doesn’t the end justify the means? Even if we don’t like the way Dubya has bullied the majority of the world, we have to at least be happy Hussein and his brats are gone. On this there can be NO debate!! Hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of people have been raped, tortured and murdered all in the name of a sick despot and his cronies. I don’t think Hussein had anything on Hitler, but they would’ve certainly got along famously.
As for the UN, I wanted more international cooperation in this matter than just the Coalition of the Greedy and Opportunitstic, but the UN is and has been a joke for DECADES. Where has their spine been all along in this? Why have they allowed Hussein to flourish? Could it be because “allies” like France value their oil contracts too much? Could it be that “allies” like France have been funneling banned weapons and parts into Iraq for the past 8 years or so? Quit trying to paint the UN like it’s some kind of noble, effective and relevant body. It is none of these, and it’s time has long since passed.
An article unafraid to say the unpopular truth. The Iraqis aren’t fairing any better. Sadaam isn’t really gone…just away. No WMD. More hatred towards the US which will spark more terrorist attacks here and abroad. What was accomplished? Simply better access to oil, just as insightful thinkers knew all along.
Congratulations on your article. Corporate news media outlets fail to follow or point out the the manipulation of facts this current administrations propagated to justify it’s war. Freedom for the Iraqi people is of course a good thing, but wasn’t the justification for our fighting this war. When an administration cares less about facts but more about it’s own political agenda (Pax America) then it’s time to call for a regime change here at home. History in the end will judge those currently in office, but can we afford to wait that long?
Amazing how many anti-American citizens call themselves Democrats. This was a just was, even without WMD’s. Being hated by the UN, France, etal is a badge of honor. Its great seeing you lefty pinkos all tied up in knots over the great Bush presidency. Long live GW Bush!!!!
Vin, I am guessing that you are appling to the current adminstraiton for you very own chunk of Iraq and secert “Skull and Bones” tatto on your ass. But you should take off your Swastika boxers becomes some of those boys are Jews. Your daddy probably beat you until you finished your Ivy league degree which he had to pay extra to see your C average. Don’t lose your cool when you dad kicks it he will most likely leave you a very generous trust as long as he doesn’t find out about your stint as the frat house hole in the wall. Grow a set off balls and wake up to the evil and corruption on all sides. Maybe you like it and you are probably one of those bastards who goes to church and still picks up hookers while covering your massive coke habit by stealing from your company and controls your and kids with violence because that is all your dad every showed you.
Hope you grow up and wake up.
Dear E..Thanks for validating my right wing Ivy league prognosis. You folks on the left are losing it!
You ought to move to Cuba. I mean seriously, I’m a working class stiff educated at state schools, and guess what…I don’t believe the welfare state that you Democrats have foisted on us for the past 30 years works…in fact it sucks. GWB will go down in history as one of the Great presidents. Get used to it. Your diatribe just points out the shallow and outmoded thinking that the left has adopted..it’s not thinking at all, its just attack the right. Good luck E, you and your commie Democrat buddies are going to need it.
Vin:
Sure Bush will live a long life, perhaps. But what about the US? How long will you be the nr. 1 superstate in this world?
The ignorant rant of someone named vin shows how insecure, simple minded morons such as he are probably as dangerous to this country as george w. yes the freeing of the iraqi people is good, but vins small brain can’t grasp the simple concept that the public was lied to as to wmd in iraq. typical of said morons, vin must resort to insults because of his frustration that all in this country don’t share his view. perhaps he should move to cuba where everyone thinks the same because they have to. vin why don’t you go crack open a beer, scratch your dumb ass and watch the fox news.
Gary from Chicago posted on 5/20 that the ends justifes the means. It seems that some of the lessons of America post-Watergate have been forgotten or ignored.
By stating that geting rid of Saddam makes lying to the American public acceptable is ludicrous. Beyond the “need to know” issues of secrecy, a construct to safeguard true secrets of the state, does this imply that the American public need not be told why it is sending its sons and daughters into peril or why we are spending $70B for 6 months of reconstruction without a tab for the remaining “as long as it takes”? Are these also state secrets? Or is it as it seems: political action?
Vin:
Bush Jr. will go down as one of the Great (note the capital G) presidents? Right along with Reagan, right? Because we all know how Grrrreat Reagan was. Yes, that’s right; history books will speak of Bushivus II in honor and respect because after his administration decimated international law, they continued to destroy our civil liberties with the second Patriot Act. And then us “lefty pinko commies” will be ashamed that we ever doubted his greatness when we end up in Guantanamo.
I love getting you lefties riled up! I love Fox too—fair and balanced! WMD’s don’t matter, what matters is the GREAT Pres. Bush is pursuing terrorists everywhere, before they get us. Iraq was a just war just for the fact we liberated a country where the people were routinely beaten, killed, raped, etc…..by a despotic dictator. Good luck folks, The Demolosers are toast in 04 and then we’ll mop up Hillary in 08. Keep the feedback coming, my narrow right wing mind is expanding oh so much from reading this left wing bs.
I forgot to mention, but if any you folks out there are little boys who want to help me find the WMDs in my pants, just let me know. Oh yeah, who’s your inspector, baby?
pathetic…further proves my point about you left wingers.
Hmm, anyone remember Panama 1989? Who started that war, oh yeah it wus George Bush Sr., and how did he start it? He annoyed the hell out of the country until an incident occured, and from that incident he would have “Just Cause” (no pun intended), to start a war. Does any of this sound redundant in light of the current events? The Bush “Dynasty” kills without discretion, they do whatever they can to take down the “evil” dictators, after Supporting them in earlier years. Be it Manuel Noriega or Saddam Hussien, the motives are the same, and the excuses are getting old. Bush (Jr.) brainwashed the vulnerable parts of the public into thinking they needed to go to war, then cut off Real media access to the event; I wouldn’t be surprised if in a few years it was revealed that he did no better than his father in panama (4000 innocent Panamanian civilians were slaughtered, then burned on beaches and buried in mass graves).
Vin. You over-estimate us “lefties”. Not all of us who disagree with the war that President Bush initiated are against all things started 30 years ago by democrates. I, for one, am anti-bush, relatively anti-welfare, anti-afirmative action, anti-slavery reparations. I am also anti-bush tax cut for himself and other wealthy americans, despite the fact that I am one. You judge an entire group of people based on a single social-political title. Just like some racists in mississippi accusing Hoover and the entire FBI of being atheist commys back when he was the head honcho of the FBI. Or on a more extreme note, hitler judging jews, gypsies, gays…because of social titles. Grow up vin. The world doesn’t need more half-witted parameciums.
So Vin is gay? Keep your pants zipped vin!
or perhaps a pedophile with a taste for little boys?
It’s like I said to you commies, I’ve got something that’s about ready to explode if you don’t send the troops in (and yes, by troops I mean a whole mess of boy scouts who need to earn their badges in the exploration of my pants).
Same old “blame America first” syndrome. What a pity!
Whilst Blair is a conman, pure and simple, with a secret right wing agenda hidden behind fake sincerity and mouthed platitudes, GWB is just a moron like Vin and Co. He is a glove puppet to corrupt and evil politicians like cheney and rumsfeld. These punks think with their genitals first and imagine the world should love them just for being shoot em up cowboys. You can scream all you like about everybody else being a pinko because they believe in what are values of fairness and freedom, you cant change the fact you are the real Nazi’s of this century.
I have a message to almost everyone on this board: Do you really think that Bush is a “nazi”? You don’t have to be a Bush-supporter to realize how crazy that statement is. Bush is no where near to the Nazis, as a clear-thinking individual I feel bad that you were deprived a proper education on what the nazis were actually like.
Just because you disagree with someone it doesn’t make them “evil” or a “conman”, ok?
Don’t let Vin rile you up, he shouldn’t be taken seriously.
We all know what the Nazi’s were like, it is well documented. Unfortunately a lot of modern killings are not despite this being the century of information. Maybe you should visit Gaza and see what is going on there, the terrorism perpetrated by Sharon using US weapons. Little kids shot at and blown apart just for daring to throw stones. Small girls killed or blinded ducking in their classrooms as bullets fly in through the windows, thousands of orange and lemon trees levelled as ‘they provide cover for terrorists’. Thousands of men held without charge in camps where they are beaten and tortured. Yes, I agree it is nowhere on the scale of what Hitler did. Yes, I have read all about the rapes, the torture , the ‘medical experiments’ and the mass killings. I have wept at the horrors inflicted by man on his fellow men. However, I would argue that modern evil is just as bad. You can dress it up, and get the media to provide the cover stories or to ignore the real events altogether. To me it is not a numbers game. What is worse? A thousand people butchered on the streets of the Congo or the daily murder of palestinians by Israeli ‘security forces’. According to some even Hitler was a moderate in the numbers game if you compare him to Mr Pol Pot and his killing fields or Uncle Joe Stalin. Perhaps those who experienced the rape of Nanking at the hands of the Japanese have their own candidates for masters of evil. Perhaps our anger at our failure to stop modern atrocities makes us make unfair comparisons between past and present, but at the end of the day an atrocity is an atrocity whether committed a thousand times or a million times.
Garse, you made some good points when talking about Pol Pot etc. But you left a lot out, first of all, everything you said goes both ways about the Israelis and the Palestinians. Both are committing terrorist acts on eachother. But you mentioned that Sharon uses US weapons, I don’t know how true that is but he uses US money to make weapons, anyway. If Israel was denied the protection of the United States and its resources, there would be no Israel. The Israelis tried a peace Prime Minister and both the Palestinians and the Israelis didn’t like it, so now they have a whacko in Sharon in charge. But look, Arafat hates Israel, he doesn’t want there to be an Israel and he wants to push the Isreaelis into the Medit. Sea. The US is doing something very noble in helping to protect Israel, something that is very popular in America,
I don’t like Arafat, he is a vain conceited man but I reject the idea that he wants to drive the Israelis into the sea. Even the nasty extremists in Hamas and Jihad have accepted that Israel has a right to exist. They just violently disagree that Israel has a right to invade their lands and build settlements and destroy their houses. The old line about wanting to drive Israelis into the sea is straight out the extreme right wing Sharon book of political propoganda. There are many in Israel who know that line is a lie. Unfortunately the powers that be allow that lie to be perpetuated because they don’t want to ‘give an inch’ to the Arabs. That is why they sent one of their most anti-Arab guys to Washington this week, a tactic that is supposed to make Sharon look like a moderate battling against parties who want to ‘transfer’ i.e. drive the palestinians out of even what little territories they have left. In Kosovo it was called ethnic cleansing and we went to war over it. It seems to be an unfortunate fact of modern politics that the extremists dictate the agenda and in Israels case they are in power. Fair enough, the US should protect Israel but remember Israel has over two hundred nuclear weapons and chemical and biological facilities. No Arab nation would even consider going against that kind of power. Israels actions dont kill terrorists, they create more and more. I can assure you all the F16s, the apaches and the majority of the hardware used by the IDF had made in US stamped on it. Check your export lists and you will find this out. Just because a policy is popular in the US does not make its consequences right. I would argue that most of the US citizens who support those policies are not aware of those consequences. Personally I dont have any axe to grind but I do choose to condemn criminals and killers on all sides. I hope for a day where freedom and justice is a right for everyone not a convenient catchphrase for politicians who sanction murder with the next breath.
Garse, I can’t believe you think that Arafat and the Arab world actually want Israel to exist. Of course they’re going to say that because they have to seem reasonable. Arafat would rather there be no Israel, there is no question about that.
Once again, all of the things you say Israel does, the Palestinians do back. Israel needs all of those things to protect themselves. Israel has fought a lot of wars in there short history and neighbors like Syria won’t acknowledge it exists.
You’re right about how just because something is popular doesn’t make it necessarily right, but this is, who will protect Israel if we don’t?
First, it was Salvador Allende, in Chile, after Jo?o Goulart, in Brazil, then the Afeghanistan, and now, Irak. Who will be the next? Hugo Chavez, in Venezuela? There, there is much oil, why not?
Vin - take off your WWF shirt, put down the firecrackers, and chill with the booze. It doesn
Brad, You are saying that the Palestinians leaders merely pretend to be reasonable. Yes, I do believe some of them would prefer Israel not to exist but it is a total lie to pretend that these people are the majority. On the other hand, most of the Israeli leaders do not even pretend. They would rather the palestinians didn’t exist. That is why they are openly calling for ethnic cleansing. Why can you not condemn this? Even the apparently moderate are unwilling to give up the land they are stealing everyday, in the name of settlements. Why are the palestinians not allowed to build on their own land? Why are no building permits issued to them even though they own the land? Why are their water supplies diverted to settlements? I am willing to stand up and condemn the barbaric suicide bombings and carnage against Israel as well. You appear to be unable to grasp the realities of life in the occupied territories and appear to justify israeli terrorism as being a response to palestinian terrorism. Lets just condemn it all because we are all human beings not matter what colour or creed.
I think that many Israelis are doing terrible things. But they’re not stealing land. It is land owned by the nation of Israel. Palestine is not a country. If Israel chooses to give away land, it’s their choice.
I want to make something clear, Sharon is a whacko, he shouldn’t be in power. I’m not lying when I say that most Palestinian leaders don’t want Israel. The Muslim world didn’t begin to recognize Israel as a nation until forty years after its birth, Syria still won’t.
Good article. Scary, but good.
As for people that troll like a couple we could mention that are prowling aoruind here, dont give them the satisfaction of a reply. The only reason they post in the first place is to get a responce. Lonely people… but they still need to learn better manners.
Has anyone ever wondered how the “free” press can ignore facts like those stated in this article? The rest of the world has access to this information throught their local media, but not us. That is scary, especially when you consider that we are one of the most technologically advanced and powerful nations in the world.
“As for people that troll like a couple we could mention that are prowling aoruind here, dont give them the satisfaction of a reply. The only reason they post in the first place is to get a responce”
Phui. Who would want a response on a discussion board. Much better to chant in chorus “Great article” “Bush sucks” and “Anyone who disagrees with us is ignorant and gullible”
“Who would want a response on a discussion board. Much better to chant in chorus…” blah, blah, blah.
because, you know, it makes you seem so much more intelligent when all you do is post what someone has said and then call them out for being so un-Nus-like. and by the way, bush sucks (and you can quote me on that).
You nailed it! Money, power, and intimidation now rule the USA. Only the backdoor media outlets have the backbone needed to expose the posers now in power.
Even Sharon has now uttered the so called taboo OCCUPATION word.
How can you suggest that Israel ‘owns’ the west bank and Gaza? Probably in the same way that saddam claimed to own kuwait or Germany claimed to own poland.
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