The erosion of sections of the Bill of Rights quickened when the president signed the USA PATRIOT Act on October 26, 2001. With Attorney General John Ashcroft insisting on the crucial need for speed, the House passed the 342-page document by a vote of 356 to 56, although few had the chance to read it. Several members later said that parts… return to article
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Reader Comments (58)Page 1 of 1 pagesThis story should be published far and wide and made required reading in Schools! I suspect that students who never heard of John Alden and Priscilla (have met some recently who were over 40!) have not read or perhaps even heard of, the Constitution and its many amendments that guard even more liberties than the Bill of Rights - which we had to memorize when I was in school!
Posted by Ane Hanley on Sep 5, 2003 at 5:23 PM I am curently taking an independent study (the relationship between corporations and politics) an dmost of the time I end up sitting in on the Advanced Government class at my high school. Well at this moment, as I type, the students are learning about the Patriot Act (they are reading an early NYTimes article) and about Madison 45
Posted by Kevin on Sep 5, 2003 at 6:27 PM Ashcroft is a nut—- I knew this when he was in the sanate! Why is everyone acting so surprised?!
Posted by James Lee Mabe on Sep 6, 2003 at 5:31 AM Dear folks,
Anyone remember Daniel Sheehan and the Christic Inst.‘s demise? Anyone remember his warning that _concentration camps_ were being built in secret all over the nation for “future use” if the “Sandanista’s invaded?” Well, those camps are still there, empty, waiting like a specter now that the vicious, malicious, sillies have taken over the supposed inviolate “national consciousness” with the innocuous threat of terrorism. The U.S. is the only _nation_ accused of any sort of terrorism by the International Court. The evidence is there, if anyone besides Noam Chomsky cares to look.
Posted by Ryokan on Sep 6, 2003 at 6:50 AM What a great story! No truer words have been spoken. As a US citizen working abroad and as a two tour combat decorated Marine, I along with my fellow commrades before me and after me who have laid their lives on the line to fight for and defend the Constitution of these United States. I find it very disgraceful to those who gave it all to defend the Constitution to have it cast aside by a group of people whom when the call to come to aide of their country all seemed to other more important things to do.
The above atricle needs to spread wide and far for all to see what is taking place behind the backs of the American people.
Posted by P.J. Goduto on Sep 6, 2003 at 8:32 AM He was so loved in Missouri he lost the election to a dead guy.
Posted by neil on Sep 6, 2003 at 11:20 AM Liberty has never been fully realized in the US. And whatever liberties we had in the beginninghave been constantly encroached uponby a combination of our own complicity, that of our “emotional” legislators and representatives, and “zealots(religiousand/or otherwise) like Ashcroft. We have met the enemy, and he is {mostly}us.
Posted by WES on Sep 6, 2003 at 12:40 PM Excellent article. Wonderful reading. Am I going to be target by the Fourth Reich and be submitted to this Carnivore, and perhaps placed into a “detention center” for submitting this comment? Oh well, sic semper tyranus!!
Posted by Butch White on Sep 6, 2003 at 1:55 PM This story is heartwrenching for the first time in my life I am afraid of my own government and country, I never was before, I I don’t know what to do, the thought of leaving my home a place were I grew up and my ancesters lived, died, faught and died to defend and protect and make free and keep free who came here in the sixteenth century (both sides) and now I feel this urgent need to leave.
Posted by 1cit on Sep 6, 2003 at 3:41 PM Well, we can thank the liberal Democrats in Missouri for John Ashcroft. THEY were the ones who thought that it was OK to keep a dead man as a candidate it that joke of an election. It may have been fun for them to embaress Mr. Ashcroft then , but as the saying goes, “Be careful what you wish for.“He would have been a lot les dangerous as a Senator. Thank you Democratic party!<sarcasm>
Posted by Robert Jackson on Sep 6, 2003 at 3:59 PM This is ridiculous. Of course the Patriot Act expands the government’s powers in terms of law enforcement. It does not “erode” the Bill of Rights however, because their is a very important check on the Executive Branch’s power—a court order must be obtained before any of the above-described events can happen (i.e., judicial review). This piece is pure fear mongering. Fifty years ago conservatives were considered “reactionary.” Well, liberals attitude on the Patriot Act is pretty reactionary.
Posted by Joe D'Amato on Sep 6, 2003 at 4:10 PM If you would really like to make your voice heard on this, you can send your state representatives a message at http://www.aclu.org/SafeandFree/SafeandFree.cfm?ID=13292&c=206
Posted by Oakdancer on Sep 6, 2003 at 4:53 PM Great and pertinent article. I might add that we can’t totally blame ashcroft for the Patriot Act. It was written during the Klinton administration, and was waiting to be implemented as soon as a disaster could be staged.
Also, detainment camps have been built put in running order for 5-6 years now. Many have large incinerators included in the camp. A few quick searches on the internet will support these facts with details and phots.
Posted by sj on Sep 6, 2003 at 4:56 PM Not only is the executive branch usurping the powers of congress and judiciary but the feds are also usurping the rights of soverign states to make their own laws and the people vote their own consciences. The latest incidence of this is the forced removal of the 10 Commandments from the Alabama State Court House by fiat of a Federal Judge who, himself, doesn’t even know the law or the Consitiution.
I heard Mr. Ashcroft speak in 1995 when he was in the Senate and he was eloquent and I was a fan. But he scares me to death now. My how quickly people change or was it all an act?
Maureen Duffy
Posted by JD on Sep 6, 2003 at 5:52 PM http://www.la.indymedia.org/news/2003/08/76812.php
A perfect example…
Posted by RSJC on Sep 6, 2003 at 7:32 PM The Patriot Act erodes the bill of rights, well duh. Anyone should know that in Washington, whatever the bill is called i.e “Patriot” is the exact opposite of it’s purpose. The “Patriot” Act makes “Un-Patriots” out of people who disagree with it.
And getting a court order from a judge, under the auspices of the Patriot act is a forgone conclusion.
The Government only needs to assert that the search is “under suspicion of” and no real proof is needed for the judge to issue the warrant.
If Mr. D’ Amoto is so comfortable with that, then he can have a sneek and peak visit to his house by the FBI.
Posted by jimmmy on Sep 6, 2003 at 7:58 PM We now live in a totalitarian police state, where the ideas of the Declaration of Independence need to be brought alive once more.
Posted by ragnar danneskjold on Sep 6, 2003 at 8:42 PM The Bush Administration has found a way to erode our Constitutional rights and to do what they wish to any human being in this country (and others) by declaring a false war. A war cannot be declared against an *act*. No war has officially been declared between two countries. Who are we “at war” with? One might say “the terrorists” Oh? who are they and where are they?
Posted by Ashley Christiansen on Sep 6, 2003 at 9:51 PM If Bush and Ashcroft truly cared about terrorism they would secure our boarders and stop allowing states to give driver’s licences to illegal aliens.
Posted by Lelaina on Sep 6, 2003 at 9:54 PM This Administration seems to have devised a way to allow military tribunals and martial law without really being at war (like Ashley wrote, no war has been declared against another country). Given the fact that terrorism will never end-because we keep doing what causes the hatred- we will be “at war” until the end of time.
Posted by Nicolas on Sep 6, 2003 at 10:03 PM This Attorney General is a perfect example of a small-minded flag sycophant who knows, in the back of his mind that he not only has the support of the swimmingly “patriotic cause, but also the big money people behind it. As Ben Franklin said “Virtue is often local”. He’s got a get-out-of Jail card: God OKs it too.
Posted by Tony Loscalzo on Sep 6, 2003 at 10:15 PM ìAll you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for their lack of patriotism, and for exposing their country to greater danger.”—Nazi mastermind Herman Goering at the Nuremberg war crimes trials, 1946
Posted by Frodo Baggins on Sep 6, 2003 at 10:22 PM In reply to Joe D’Maoto’s dismissal of this article as fear mongering, he apparently doesn’t realize that the Patriot Act allows the “security” commission administering the investigation to issue their own “court ” orders thereby circumventing the judicial branch and the checks and balances therein. This attack on our constitutional rights is one of many subversions perpetrated by this administration that is rife with conflict of interests and who are expert at the “bait and switch” distraction tactics. When will Americans wake up and realize they will corrupt the elections too? They hold nothing sacred.
Posted by J.Leggerton on Sep 7, 2003 at 12:42 AM Excellent article. Those few of us who value liberty better keep our eyes open before the floodgates of tyranny wipe out whatever freedom we have left. Check out James Bovard’s new book on terrorism and tyranny.
Posted by Ben on Sep 7, 2003 at 12:52 AM Totalitarian state? Excuse me? The PATRIOT act is pushing the boundries a little and in my opinion should be modified and/or revoked, but I’m sorry to all of you out there who want something to panic about, we are not living in a totalitarian state. Think about this: Can you still worship whatever, however, whenever you want? Can you own a weapon? Can you even disagree with our government as you are doing now without the fear of being arrested or killed? Or your family being killed? I doubt any of you have actually lived in a totalitarian state and untill you have I suggest you come up with with helpful ways to heal your scratched freedoms (that, I may remind you, are unique to the world at this moment) and vote them into office or keep your mouth shut.
Posted by Elke Braun on Sep 7, 2003 at 7:14 AM Without doubt this administration is as close to the very things our parents and grandparents fought against in Europe over 50 years ago. The degridation of basic freedoms makes a mockery of the lives that were lost in the name of freedom.
Posted by Paul Telesco on Sep 7, 2003 at 1:55 PM My grandparents, Father and his siblings made it out of east Germany just as they were sealing the border. We visited the family in the GDR every year ( from Canada, as I would not visit an “enemy country” from the US!) and I cann assure you that there is no difference between the US and the German “Democratic” Republic!
Posted by Thomas Albrecht on Sep 7, 2003 at 7:49 PM While liberty means freedom from government, democracy seeks the chimera of freedom *through* government. Thus, democrats—whether Democratic or Republican, liberal or neo-conservative—are there to force us to be free. The oxymoron escapes the sheeple who have embraced their supervisors’ PATRIOT Act, drug prohibition and welfare-warfare statism. So long as the state maintains the illusion of free elections, its relentless erosion of liberty can’t possibly undermine the cause of human freedom.
Posted by Tony Pivetta on Sep 8, 2003 at 2:42 AM Gee. Don’t you think that any Rep. or Senator who voted for this and DIDN’T EVEN READ THE BILL (ast the article reported some Democrat’s excuses) should be removed from office for violation of their oath of office.
One of the surest ways to erode the Cinstitution (as history has shown) is for our Congress to fail to do their jobs. Or were they too busy obstructing Migel Estrada?)
We would have much fewer problems with some of these morons gone.
Posted by Will Decker on Sep 8, 2003 at 12:15 PM I was against this act from the start. Though I side with Republicans on many issues when it comes to our liberties and freedoms our Constitution is there for a reason. That is to protect every American on this country. Those who we elect or appoint to office are there for one purpose, which is to uphold the Constitution. Yet every year it seems more of our rights are being stripped away. How a politician could vote for an act while not even reading it in it’s entirety is beyond me. I say vote those who would destroy our great Constitution out of office and let them know that we the people will not put up with this.
Posted by David R on Sep 8, 2003 at 12:25 PM This is the fault of the GOP.
The GOP foisted this dildo-headed Alfred E. Newman look-alike upon us.
The GOP’s buddies stopped the Florida election re-count.
Longtime GOP member JohnBoy AshKKKroft is so unlucky he couldn’t
even keep a dead man from taking away his seat in the US Senate—-yet Alfred E. Newman’s evil twin hired him on as Atty. Gen., anyway.Republicans, behold thy doom. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.
Posted by David L. McNiel on Sep 8, 2003 at 2:59 PM Considering the countries of origin of the terrorists involved in the 9/11 attack, how would intruding on U.S. citizens privacy have helped in preventing that incident? Are all U.S. citizens now viewed as potential terrorists? What has been done to secure the borders to prevent terrorists from slipping thru? Have the agencies in charge of gathering and analyzing intelligence perhaps learned from 9/11 and actually begun to work together? With the failure to analyze what intelligence they then had pointing to a terrorist act of some sort prior to 9/11 will now having much more to analyze make us safer? How many domestic terrorists or terrorist acts have been thwarted since the Patriot Act passed? Having reacted to the 9/11 attack with fear and paranoia have our elected representatives suddenly gone brain-dead by passing legislation without sufficient review? Much could and should have been done in the name of national security, questions asked and answers sought before something like the Patriot Act was even considered, much less enacted.
Posted by e sorensen on Sep 8, 2003 at 3:58 PM I believe this man is worse than the terrorists! At least they are dead after their damage. This guy stays around to make sure the damage is done for the rest of our lives. There must be a better way!
gwa
Posted by Grady W. Adams on Sep 8, 2003 at 5:18 PM Elke:
When you live in a country headed by an administration that was not democratically elected (you know the small matter of 57,000 voters purged in Florida for felonies, 54% of whom were black, up to 92% of of whom were completely innocent, because the records on CD-ROMs from the Florida elections department either didn’t list any date of conviction or they listed dates far in the future), that fits the definition of a totalitarian state.
Posted by Owen on Sep 8, 2003 at 7:07 PM Why the hysteria?
First, Ashcroft didn’t establish this law without help from Congress (and the votes of some senators and a congressman currently running on the “Ashcroft is a maniac platform). It was passed “fair and square” subject to review of the Supreme Court… don’t like it? Then vote for someone else.
Second, what good would it do to tell someone that their PC (or phone) is bugged? If they’re dumb enough to continue using the device, they deserve to get caught. The delay serve to preserve an investigation. They don’t leave a note on the phone telling you that you’re being recorded. And a wiretap certainly picks up conversation not relavant to an investigation.
Third, I would think a court order requires the FBI to provide some modicum of reasonable suspicion to a judge before installing any bugs.
Fourth, the reason for a keyboard sniffer is that 1) not all interesting data is sent via email (could be instant messenger or just typed into a document); 2) emails are easily and effectively encrypted; 3) disk files are easily and effectively encrypted (WindowsXP/Pro includes encryption and I’m certain the same capability exists on Unix-derived platforms such as Linux and Apple OS-X).
As far as Yaser Hamdi… he is an enemy combatant… citizenship makes no difference: if you take up arms against your country, you’re a combatant.
Surely, with all the bluster, there’s a real example somewhere.
What we have here is a bunch of “Hate Bush” crapola. You people are more hysterical than the most rabid Clinton-haters I know.
Posted by Robert on Sep 8, 2003 at 11:45 PM MY my - such a doomsayer. Is there a better way to catch a terrorist then to follow the data path of their activity, even if it gets too close to home. Innocent people needn’t worry and terrorists should quake.
I’m not the least impressed with this story, and Nat appears to be afraid of something happening to his liberties. Mine haven’t been violated yet. Should I worry?! Hell, no! To overlook every venue a terrorist would use just because the Feds tread close to us, doesn’t make sense.
Posted by Stirling Shippey on Sep 9, 2003 at 12:49 AM I believe the concerns are legitimate. Aside from the very obvious danger of collecting the innocent along with the guilty and the real potential of plain ole’ abuse, common sense dictates that the Patriot Act is a piece of legislation entirely too reactionary and paranoid. It’s extreme measures are simply not necessary to accomplish the administration’s alleged goals.
Moreover, Robert’s justification of a suspension of civil rights due to a “taking up arms” argument is just out of balance and was clearly asserted on a foundation of biggotry. Look, the year before 9/11, U.S. citizens killed over 10,000 U.S. citizens in this country and the 2nd largest terrorist attack within our borders was a U.S. citizen (a caucasian and veteran, no less). If I used the same kind of logic Robert uses, we are in deep caa caa since we have so many citizens wreaking terror on one another in this nation. Should we not only expect the suspension of all our civil rights but also prepare ourselves to be the next nation to be bombed as the administration pursues its “war on terror”?
Of course not!!!
Posted by Leslee Hamrick on Sep 9, 2003 at 2:14 AM It makes one worry that just commenting about this story could make one suspicious, isnt it sad that in the back of your mind while writingthis comment you wonder who is listening
Posted by m.l.f. on Sep 9, 2003 at 2:17 AM This is horrifying! They passed a bill that most of them had not read?! See “Liberty” erode in the USA. Dare we do anything without fear of our own government now?
Posted by Dianne on Sep 9, 2003 at 2:41 AM To the two main parties’ question of “where else are you going to go?”, the answer is, Cebu. I left the US with my family a year ago. The third world is far safer, saner, and more respective of personal privacy and liberty, than America. I see no reverse of the continuing slide of America into the pit. I will be watching from outside. Good luck, those of you who remain.
Posted by Lawrence Hughes on Sep 9, 2003 at 3:48 AM Then, Stirling Shippey, when it gets worse, don’t complain.
Posted by neil on Sep 9, 2003 at 6:13 AM Stirling doesn’t seem to think that anything is going on that should concern law abiding citizens. The way Stirling thinks, as long as you are obeying all the laws, you shouldn’t care what your government does. After all, you have nothing to fear. You haven’t done anything wrong. Wow, if I was a politician, I would want every one of my constituents to be this naive. Another sheep in the herd. Is he old enough to remember the KGB? According to Stirling’s “logic” the KGB was simply making the Soviet Union a safer place to live. And we thought that they were the evil enemy and we needed to defeat them. Well, at least some people appreciated what they did. Obviously Asscroft was taking notes. How amazing to think that Stirling is a citizen of this country. All the men and women that have sacrificed life and limb to protect the freedoms and liberties from oppressive governments mean nothing to this character. Don’t you get it? America is special because the individual is supposed to be greater than the State. Once you start thinking the other way, you’ve joined the ranks of all those other people around the world that are more than willing to give up their freedoms for perceived safety. Thomas Jefferson said it best, “Those willing to give up liberty for safety will have none and deserve neither”
The most disgusting part of the piece was the fact that almost all of our elected officials voted for this bill without even reading it. Democrat or Republican, it doesn’t matter, the most important thing to all of these bastards is to get elected and stay in office. And they will do whatever they think it takes to do that. This is one of the most un-American pieces of legislation that has ever been signed into law. Wake up America! The current adminstration knows only one thing - how to scare and manipulate the general population. Welcome to the War On Terror. Brought to you by the same people that brought us The War On Drugs. Both of them being never ending wars that allow the government to slowly but surely erode personal freedoms in the name of protecting the American way of life and what it stands for. Anyone see the irony in all of that? I’m sure Stirling doesn’t.
Posted by Mark Avellino on Sep 9, 2003 at 8:24 PM Mr. Nat Hentoff has hit the nail on the head.
Posted by Alan Chwick, Editor, Nassau County News Flash on Sep 9, 2003 at 8:27 PM After reading this, everyone should be sure to read the Constitution and or the Bill of Rights just to see what is happening in America and to their civil liberties. Which by the way people, is what this country is famous for. And yet, we are complacent and willing to give up our rights in the name of, what? Freedom? We already have that. But not for much longer I think, simply because everyone is willing to give up their freedom simply because they have been brainwashed the last 30 years into thinking the government should be allowed to do as they please, not what we, the ones who voted for them would like for them to do. Politicians should not have the final say in anything. This is a republic and the people who represent us can and should be voted out if they do not ask the opinion of the voters.
Posted by Mike McEndree on Sep 9, 2003 at 10:35 PM Dear blindly patriotic morons,
Mr. Hentoff is absolutely correct. This article is only part of the story. For example, look at the legaly questionable redistricting of Texas, and Colorodo this year. Replace the word “Communist” with “Terrorist” and you’ve got yourself a McCarthyism right here in modern America. At least McCarthy had a country to point a finger at. Terrorism has existed since the first cave man picked up a stick and beat up his rival in front of the clan, and it will always exist, as long as people are unhappy with their situation. Are we doomed to FOREVER give up our rights? It is in times of turmoil that we need to defend our rights most vehemently
Posted by Ben Spar on Sep 10, 2003 at 1:18 PM “Perpetual War for Perpetual Peace” seems to be the order of the day in the world now, thanx to your american junta. Seen from a European viewpoint,it seems clear that the U.S. is fast falling into a almost science-fiction-like police-state, supported by obscure financial backers. According to the current american law, not only can american servicemen come and kill/arrest me in my home in Norway, they can not even be prosecuted if caught.
By declaring USA a nation of “Manifest Destiny”, G. Bush II has firmly entered the realms of religious tyrants hell-bent on world domination. Maybe he should check out history, and see how previous would-be world-conquerers have fared. Destroying the freedoms at home, destroying international frameworks and shameless open greed and profiting seems to be the current White House Agenda. This is scary, as is knowing that the socalled mightiest man in the World is a religious nut hell-bent on building a new Jerusalem…
Posted by Martin Knutsen on Sep 10, 2003 at 2:14 PM KUDOS, Mr. Hentoff. Many may not realize or care, but you are one of the ever-increasingly louder voices from the mainstream media who are beginning to chip away at the wall of deceit and corruption that has been aided and abetted by your employers in their lock-step solidarity, marching in a blind phalanx as frontline informational warriors for the most corrupt, war-mongering, self-serving, liberty-negating administration in American History. They are not of any known party though they pose as Republicans. They are the Corporationist Party that’s gone astray and I deduce that their brand of Fundamentalist Christian Corporatism is becoming less amenable to those same corporations which helped blitzkreig them into power. People reading this article must remember that you and an ever increasing number of voices that seemed to be suffering from truth-laryngitis for these past two years are finally beginning to see what those awful, unpatriotic dissenter/conspiracy freaks were yelling about. You are in the vanguard, Mr. Hentoff and when yours and the soon-to-become-deafeningly-un-ignorable voices from the corporate media begin to reawaken the spirit of democracy in this great land…Our country cannot help but consolidate, if only for this one cause, to rid itself of the venom in it’s bloodstream and the cataracts in it’s eyes. The dam of rapacious mendacity and repression that this administration has built is finally starting to spring a leak. A dam reaches it’s critical mass when a crack appears at an astonishingly rate-for the waters pent up behind it are those of a river born free and clean and mighty that’s been kept too long from moving at it’s natural pace. That river is The People and they too must flow freely once again in the bedrock of their Constitution!
Posted by Dom Mastroserio on Sep 11, 2003 at 2:06 AM WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS POWERSound familiar Mssrs Braun and Shippey? Probably not, but it evidently will be very familiar to you in the future.
Great job on this article.
Posted by A. Sheeple on Sep 11, 2003 at 5:11 PM WHAT A DISGRACE TO THE AMERICAN WAY. CAN NO-ONE SAY WHAT IS REALLY GOING ON HERE. THE GOVERNMENT AS WE ONCE KNEW IT HAS BEEN OVERTHROWN, THIS IS NO LESS THAN TREASON. EACH AND EVERY DAY WE SEE THE LOSS OF MORE OF THE AMERICAN WAY AND VERY LITTLE BEING SAID OR DONE. IT WAS SET IN MOTION IN 2000 AND HAS BEEN GOING TO HELL IN A HANDCART EVER SINCE. NOW WE HAVE A WAR, AND THEN ANOTHER ONE AND WILL WE HAVE YET ANOTHER AND ANOTHER TO KEEP THE HEAT OFF THOSE CAUSING THE PROBLEMS. ASHCROFT IS DEAD SET ON A WORLD ACCORDING TO ASHCROFT AND HE IS GETTING ALL THE BACKING HE NEEDS. ALL I CAN SEE HERE IS A BUCH OF PEOPLE WHO THOROUGHLY HATE THIS COUNTRY AND ALL IT STANDS FOR. NO PRICE IS TOO MUCH TO PAY, JUST AS LONG AS THEY DON’T HAVE TO PAY IT. TO THOSE WITH THEIR HEADS STUCK IN THE SAND, BEST OPEN YOUR EYES AND LOOK AROUND WHILE YOU STILL CAN, IF THE POWERS THAT BE EVER FALL OUT OF FAVOR, YOU WILL BE NEXT. THE BIG PROBLEM IS THAY WILL NOT HAVE TO PAY, THEY NEVER DO, BUT YOU WILL..
Posted by ROBERT D. DAILY on Sep 11, 2003 at 7:53 PM as ben franklin said “a people who trade their liberty for security deserve neither liberty or security”. the bill of rights are dead and america has become a police state just like the former east germany and the really sad part is that most americans have welcomed it .
Posted by d thorson on Sep 12, 2003 at 4:16 AM thorson, you are insane. A police state like East Germany?? East Germany was communist and their government could do anything. Freedom of speech was non-existent there. You have no basis for this comparison.
The biggest problem I have with the act is that the legislature did not read it. Aren’t our congressman supposed to read laws before they pass them, and know what they are voting for. Now, I know they would have voted for it anyway because they couldn’t be soft on terror, but they should still know.
Secondly, the article mentions on how immigrants can be detained, when does the constitution say that immigrants get the rights that citizens do. Most of the time they do, but sometimes they don’t. And only when necessary
Posted by brad on Sep 12, 2003 at 3:01 PM Brad,
I am on the same page as you are re: patriot bill. Got a question for you: does the fact that someone like that implemeted such a policy make you question everything else they do?
Posted by Owen on Sep 13, 2003 at 3:17 PM This vortex-like descent into crypto-Corporatism we are experiencing has been about a century and a quarter in the making. Most of us don’t believe this because the secret elite now maneuvering with impunity has remained very much behind the scenes-craftily solidifying it’s takeover of absolute global power. Under the cover of annihilating the ostensible evils of Communism, Socialism, or any form of truly democratic and equitable state they deem threatening to their consolidation of power…these self-appointed gods stealthily employ an Hegelian-Machiavellian-based formula for social engineering. They use jingoistic, patriotic symbolism like the rallying ‘round the flag and slogans such as, “Making the world safe for democracy”, “The Evil Empire”, “Axis of Evil”, “Threat to Western Civilization”, etc. ad nauseam-while sacrificing nothing and gleaning all the rewards. We’ve been trained, (subliminally), to look to corporate-threatening entities as icons of fear-thus willingly giving our lives or murdering appointed enemies in endless trumped-up wars. The marionets, (political office holders on every level of government), for the hidden string-pullers who most of us believe actually run the country, with the assistance of their compliant media-Svengalist mantra-promoting propagandists have slowly but surely brainwashed most of us into knee-jerkingly doing their most base and self-serving dirty work while still fully believing we are keeping our country’s interests safe. What that means is: THEIR interests: that of wealth and power, world domination being final goal of the secreted one-percenters. To have us earnestly falling for their slogans and fear-mongering while reaping all the rewards behind their masks has worked a lot better for them than has any dictator-controlled empire. Think about that…it’s nothing new, what I’m saying. What would be new is if the vast masses of ordinary people of the world were to face up to this state of affairs, ferret out the power-addicted monsters, and begin a truly New World Order after disposing of them. The one they talk about is as old as prostitution.
Posted by Dom Mastroserio on Sep 13, 2003 at 11:25 PM Owen:
it does not make me question everything else they do because the passing of the bill was an emotional reaction to 9/11. I have confidence in most of our legislature in that they will do what the people who elected them to do.I think the act isn’t as bad as everyone makes it out to be. First of all, the government hasn’t taken full advantage of the act, nor should they. I feel a law should be passed that limits the Patriot act to be used only in “risk periods”. During a war, or when there is a high risk of terrorism
Posted by brad on Sep 14, 2003 at 12:44 AM Thank you for printing this story. I have been hearing of these concentration camps since 1995. I have been targeted by this government/organized crime for many years prior to the 9/11 attacks. One of the many horrible crimes against me was that I was subjected to pornograpic pictures being made of me aginst my will and with out my knowledge. Many of the people involved were the same people involved in running the drugs and illegal arms of the Iran Contra. That is one thing that did not become public with the Iran Contra Scandal. I remember when G. Bush pardoned them and when he said he was targeting American women whom he considered liberated and he didn’t like Murphy Brown’s Show, but he didn’t say how or with what he was targeting the American women. I have studied the three religions in depth. I’m no terrorist, but I do study religion. I’ve paid a big price for it. The extreme and inhuman cruelties inflicted on me by this government are numberous and it is a story or horror. I’m no extremist of any kind and represent no threat to anyone.
Posted by Connie Boyd on Sep 14, 2003 at 4:24 AM To Connie Boyd from Houston: Thank you for giving the ramifications of enactments such as, “Patriot Act”, and, “Homeland Security a human voice. Unfortunately, most Americans cannot even entertain the POSSIBILITY that their rights are being sold down the river, (which, by the way not only gives confidence to those who use FEAR as an enabling force but also, in actuality, helps clear the way for their insidious and illegal dismantling of our Constitution), let alone stop to think for themselves just what evidence they’ve been shown to justify their easy acceptance of official pronuncimentos. These people are always making excuses for the agencies, beaureaus, security forces, intelligence operatives, and administration who failed the country in preventing 9/11/01. This being ostensibly safer-rather than asking probative questions and making any insightful personal analysis of the anomolies and discrepencies between what the mainstream media tells them to believe and the reality of: no independent, impartial investigation, the non-acceptance of official excuses and reasons by the victims’ families, the fact that seven of the alleged accused hijackers turned out to be still living, and much, much more. I cannot help but think that, for these people, even a full confession of complicity by this regime and it’s police-security-intelligence apparatus would not shake their fealty to them but would instead be just cause for obsequiously accepting and vociferously commending their criminal acts. I’ve come to realize that most people don’t want liberty or freedom, (gifts one has to work to ensure and assume responsibility for it’s continuance on behalf of their progeny), but would rather have their lives manipulated by those they willingly welcome as their superiors and masters. Until their lives are made a living hell much like yours, Connie, they actually believe that if they dance to the tune of the evil piper and keep their noses clean that no harm can come their way. I’m sure that the families of many of the young men and women who died and still die in Afghanistan, Iraq, and elsewhere may have also believed similarly. I know how they feel now if they’re not still in abject, neurotic, denial.
Posted by Dom Mastroserio on Sep 14, 2003 at 5:25 PM Having read the writing on the wall when the so-called, “anti-terror”, laws were shoved down the country’s collective throat…I realized it was only a matter of time and this regime’s realization that they’d be unable to hide all of their OWN government-sized terrorist actions, plans, criminal activities, and drug dealing. So what do they announce they’re about to do, (as if it were so surprising!), to further squeeze some illegal, citizen-harassing juice out of these illegal, self-appointed law enforcement abuses of power? Why, they’re going to use the terror bill to go after small-time criminals and drug dealers-twisting the definition of, “terrorist”, to include the trumped-up activities into a few more categories against ordinary people-of whom they’re afraid and feel they need make an example. No telling just how many NEW variations on the thematic definition of, “terrorist”, they’ll eventually concoct. One thing’s for certain though…the real reason they’re busy trying to frighten as many citizens as they possibly can is because THEY have so many more evil and criminal deeds that they’ve perpetrated and these of such a staggering breadth and depth of disgracefulness and horror that were the same criteria applied to THEM, (and we all know who THEY are), even anti-death penalty people might not mind suspending their heartfelt beliefs to see THEM swinging from the ends of some piano wire or being shot full of poison. Don’t for a minute kid yourselves into the false notion that just because they’re in positions of authority and public trust that somehow their status itself should be some sort of immunity mechanism, some sort of, “get out of jail free chit”, like they want us to. After all, they’re just your basic power-abusing monomaniacs who think that their positions alone should entitle them to run a worldwide mega crime syndicate from the same rooms and halls which our exalted founding fathers once attempted to set down a blueprint for a true representative republic destined to be worthy of the name, DEMOCRACY. What they’re telling us without much shilly-shallying is that democracy is anethema to them and there’s no damn way they’ll allow it!
Posted by Dom Mastroserio on Sep 28, 2003 at 2:55 AM Page 1 of 1 pages -
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