Strange Weather Lately

“Cat’s Cradle”, “Slaughterhouse 5”, I used to read some of your confabulations, Mr. Vonnegut and probably would’ve read them all if I hadn’t gotten so disgusted with contemporary literature that I had to finally commit to re-reading all of Tolstoy’s, Dostoyevski’s and Henry Miller’s work with a smattering of Whitman, Emerson, Thoreau, and yes, Twain, over and over again until one day I picked up a contemporary work by Carlos Castaneda who, along with the aforementioned, I came to include in my list of, “read overs”.  I apologize but you have to understand, I didn’t have the internet yet and was busy writing my own garbage and trying to create oil paintings.  But who cares about me?  How are you, aside from being caustically humorous as usual?  Eighty is a fine age, I’ll bet. Personally, I thought life would suck at fifty but here I am at 54, a physical wreck but still wonderin’ as I wander.  You are absolutely, (what a ridiculous adverb, no?), correct in attempting to use your gift of surreptitious humor in perhaps helping to awaken the vast majority of folks in this land of the free that they’ve forgotten to also be the home of the brave.  You opened my eyes to the necessity of having to be continually vigilant about personal convictions.  Or as Nietzche may have said, “It is not the courage of our convictions but the courage to change them”.  You reinforced that quality in me and I’ve been paying for my curiosity and what those I meet claim are contrary, iconoclastic behavioral conceits.  Well, I’m happier having said what I really think and feel and intuit and the devil take the hindmost.  Thank you again.  Hope this made some sense.

Thanks for being so insulting. Perhaps that is why I visit this site, to remind myself how compassionate, understanding, and inclusive you lefties are. There, I’ve categorized you in my mind just as you have grouped me in with supposed evil doers. Thanks for darkening my day with your venom.

Jon, another self-styled conservative who really doesn’t understand the meaning of the ideological construal of that socio-political appellation.  He probably thinks this administration and Rush Limbaugh are Conservatives.  What he really wants us to know is that he is on the side that’s got the upper hand at the moment.  A true Conservative, at the very least, has the decency to allow for the possibility that his adversary may have some useful, true, and perhaps parallel ideas on any given issue.  A true Conservative is as horrified by the corruption in government and the corporate world as he is about crime on the streets.  And that’s where Jon, the gang in the White House, and those robber barons who put them there cut themselves off from true Conservatives.  For the traditional Conservative does not wish to find that crime has been removed from the streets, it’s least harmful arena, and into the halls of government and corporations where it’s most deadly and egregious manifestations; where it’s most deleterious effects and repercussions will ineluctably, and consequently bring the entire edifice of a just and free Democratic and Republican society to dismal ruin.  Sorry about this, Mr. Vonnegut.  It seems that wherever I posit some belief of mine or aver a heartfelt conviction, some negative, clueless dunderhead seems to follow my commentary with inanities.

Dear Kurt,
I was hoping to read some investigative reporting on the recent proliferation of chem-trails which seem to be changing our weather and God knows what else in the air we are breathing.  I know you are trying to ease the situation with your continued light humor, but couldn’t you please put someone on this questionable purpose in our skies to find out the reason for this continued sky program?  1.  Are we to be poisoned by the current regime?  2.  Is this just an experiment to see if our babies will be born without eyeballs like the children in Iraq since the 1st Gulf war and the continued use of DU?  3.  Is this simply a ploy by the military to see if there is a cheaper way to eliminate the population?  4.  Am I getting paranoid?  5.  Are you in denial?

rock on vonnegut. you make too much sense to ever disagree with. keep up the good work.

Question:
Where is all the education gone?
Lessons from history, from wars, from suffering, from totalitarian governments, from one-sided view points, from disrespect ...
Haven’t the teachers done a thing to kids in this country?
Why are these horrid events taking place? How can that POSSIBLY be?
I guess mine, is a bit less paranoic view. I just don’t know where to look for answers. 

Mr. Mastroserio, you do not know me, so kindly refrain from telling us all what I think, and do not overestimate your importance by thinking I was addressing your commentary. The very fact that I visit this site and read these articles lends credence to the assumption that I do find useful and true ideas here. What I always take issue with is demagoguery, which is found in abundance in Mr. Vonnegut’s article. My point was that putting out poison like that certainly will not win any new converts, but I suppose that is not the point of this website. Just keep preaching to the choir, even if it is such a small choir that nobody can hear you scream.

Jon, I know this person and others alike, they frighten me! Mr. Vonnegut on the other hand relieves my heart. The message I would like to prevail is that the sheep will never outwit the wolf, one must think like a wolf. God forgive there is wit, truthful intelligence with heart. One shall scream in horror with the deeds the Bush administration is performing. Last time someone called me a bitch is when he had not succeded in mugging me. Revolutions are not supposed to be sheepish. Unless, we all boycot television untill Bush goes to jail! What do you about that?

Jon, I know this person and others alike, they frighten me! Mr. Vonnegut on the other hand relieves my heart. The message I would like to prevail is that the sheep will never outwit the wolf, one must think like a wolf. God forgive there is wit, truthful intelligence with heart. One shall scream in horror with the deeds the Bush administration is performing. Last time someone called me a bitch is when he had not succeded in mugging me. Revolutions are not supposed to be sheepish. Unless, we all boycot television untill Bush goes to jail! What do you think about that?

Jon, I’ve read and re-read the article Mr. Vonnegut wrote, and can’t find exactly where you started taking it personally. Perhaps you “overestimate your importance” by thinking he was addressing you and whatever group to which you so freely confined yourself (bad idea). Since when is showing concern for the population in general “venom?” Has he really darkened your day? Perhaps, if ithe article accomplishes nothing else, I would consider that a victory for Mr. Vonnegut. People who have no concern for the dignity of their fellow human beings should have as dark (or preferably darker) days as do the people who are the victims of your method of thought - the majority.

Strange Weather Lately????
Yes, we have fire power which has no match in the world. But never forget that Their is GOD who is the most powerfull. The tornados destruction all aver for the 2 weeks is nothing but GOD revenge for those victims we killed in Iraq, look at the few pic’s and see how many we saw my our neocon media outlets.

Pictures of Destruction and Civilian Victims of the Anglo-American Aggression in Iraq (From March, 2003 onwards).

http://www.robert-fisk.com/

Mr. Vonnegut says:

“ What are conservatives? They are people who will move heaven and earth, if they have to, who will ruin a company or a country or a planet, to prove to us and to themselves that they are superior to everybody else, except for their pals. They take good care of their pals, keep them out of jailóand so on.

Conservatives are crazy as bedbugs. They are bullies.”

Seems to be a blanket indictment to me, Ben. But that is OK with you, since you obviously agree with the author’s sentiments. Can you really be sure I am victimizing people? Do you really know what I think, other than that I take issue with Mr. Vonnegut’s insulting screed?

In my high school journalism class, where we are taught to not question or criticize events, but simply report them passively, we have resereved every Friday as “Current Event Day”. I bring in pieces from “In These Times”. When it is my turn to present, the teacher labels me and the article I have as “radical”. I guess anti-war means radical nowadays. Anyways, she is also an English major, and teaches another high school class, American Literature. When I brought in an edition of “Dear Mr. Vonnegut” she asked, “Who is he?”.
Mr. Vonnegut, after reading all your books in 3 short years, all of which spread over my high school career, it is hard to find anything worth reading. Lots of people are writing, but very few are writing about something important. It is my wish to see one more Vonnegut book...tis only a dream!

Whining conservatives, geesh!  Don’t they know that bedbugs may be crazy, but, they’re also quite resilient, knowledge about sleeping locations, and rather populous.  And, who the heck isn’t crazy these days?
Just for the cerebral exercise, try finding the 20,000 different twists to the meaning of conservative of the past 200 years.  And why would anyone accept a label for yourself like that?  It’s just not healthy.
And Kurt, thanks man - Do Not Go Gentle Into That Good Night - for a long time! ;-)

“...an English major, and teaches another high school class, American Literature. When I brought in an edition of “Dear Mr. Vonnegut” she asked, “Who is he?”.

I once had a PhD in Business tell me that every company on the NY Stock Exchange pays a dividend.

The Mexicans have planted enough illegals here in Texas, with their women shooting out babies by the dozen, to reclaim the culture of the state. THey never heard of Vonnegut either.

Jon,

I can clearly see you’re victimizing yourself, for one. First by categorizing yourself under any “blanket” title, such as “conservative,” and second for opening yourself in this forum to the angry ridicule of people who categorize themselves as “liberals.”
No, I don’t know what you think, and I’m not particularly interested to know either. I can see that you wrote here because wanted a fight and I’m sorry that I’ve played into that.
I take back what I said about hoping you have darker days - I imagine they’re dark enough as it is.

Best of luck,

Ben

Thanks, Ben. I didn’t intend to start a fight. My first post was just a gut reaction to what I considered to be painting with an overly broad brush, if you will. I come here seeking information and possibly even enlightenment, but again and again I’m presented with disappointing diatribes. Writing about problems is easy, figuring out solutions, well, that’s a different story, isn’t it? You know what they say about the finger of blame, there are four more pointing back at you!

Dear Mr. Vonnegut,
Today the appointed president is visiting your hometown.  He is speaking at the State Fair Grounds.  He will tell us all what a good guy he is because he is giving us a BIG tax cut.  I hope his speech is given in the cow barn.  It is a building that is familiar with B.S.  I won’t be attending.  I am not rich.  It has nothing to do with me.  Indianapolis is beautiful at this time of year.  Except when the president is in town.  Please come see us.  Keep up the good work.  George

Jon,

I’d be delighted to hear some solutions, but I have a feeling real solutions would never be successful or popular, thus, I suppose negating their status as solutions.

If you have any suggestions, I promise to read them with an open mind (I guess that was a lie - nobody REALLY has an open mind. Broad, sweeping statements are all the rage… But I’ll try.).

Mark Twain pointed out problems more often than proposing solutions, so I think Mr. Vonnegut’s article is appropriate for the occasion. Towards the end, MT was a very outspoken misanthrope. Recognizing the problem. though, is the first step towards finding the solution. That is, providing such an achievement is possible.

I’m glad that both he and you have brought opposing viewpoints here - don’t get me wrong. I’d just like to propose that you read the article without taking it as a personal attack, because he makes quite a few good points. Nobody’s perfect.

Regards,

Ben

Jon,

I often get depressed thinking that the enlightened viewpoints posted on sites like “In These Times” is, indeed, preaching only to the choir.  Your activities prove otherwise.  Thanks for brightening my day!

Kent,

“The Mexicans have planted enough illegals here in Texas, with their women shooting out babies by the dozen, to reclaim the culture of the state.”

Wow, that’s great. Doesn’t even require a rebuttal.

I’m glad there are people like you, so semi-eloquently illustrating the need for people like Vonnegut.

That’s a fine piece of work. I mean it.

Thanks, Kent.

-Ben

Jon,
I am glad you come here.  I go to sites that come from the RIGHT and I must say some of them make me cringe.  I often find though they are good to find out who on the left is effective or rotten.  They are often quicker to point out the failings of democratic politicians.  I hope you can take this less personal and start to come around.  Nobody likes higher taxes and goverment regulation, but more often than not it creates better lives for all.

How comforting it is to have someone with such awesome talent express what is in the hearts of so many Americans whose voices have been stilled. To be a Vonnegut in our generation is to have brought sunlight into a very bleak world. Thank you Kurt Vonengut for continuing to shout against the wind. 

Jon,
Not quite sure how familiar you are with Vonnegut and Twain--you think Vonnegut is bad, you should read Twain (the only American writer taught in Communist Ruskie schools). Both are way too far left for your thinking. As are a great many of great writers and artists--aside from the occasional Knut Hamsun and Ezra Pound. It has something to do with the relationship between truth and beauty, and an artist’s ability to see and communicate both. Either that or the drugs they take. Stay away from them artist types, they’ll mess with your mind. Vonnegut does have a different view of the world than you do, Jon. I suppose if you survived the firebombing of Dresden, you might see things in a different light. Vonnegut and Twain are both gifted survivors. The revolting truth and the revolting beauty they witnessed nearly drove both insane. Cynicism, satire and irony are the father, son, and holy ghost of their church, born of their utterly hopeless love for humanity. Writing kept them sane. Or at least functionable. I listen whenever Vonnegut speaks--he speaks with the spirit of Twain. And they both wrote a couple of good books. 

I’d have to sympathize with Franco Vitella, a fellow high-schooler who finds it hard to read work comparable to Vonnegut’s.  But he and Kent Butts from Texas have trouble finding people who’ve heard of him.  Speaking from Texas, however, I should mention that Mr. Vonnegut is required reading at our high school, and up to a third of our class reads him for pleasure.  I might also mention, incidentally, that I live where according to Kent “The Mexicans have ...[invective,...some more invective]...reclaimed the culture of the state.” Judging from your info and comments, my part of Texas seems like an oasis in a desert of ignorance.  And thanks for all the enlightenment, Mr. Vonnegut.

Dear Mr. V:
Thank you for showing us how to be an American. 

Hey Kurt, don’t worry, the world is not going to wait to be conquered. This junta and their industrailist bosses will bring down the heavens. Maybe, just maybe, our constitution will survive - but it’s going to cost us.

Holy Shit! What an accurate and humane summary. My thanks for the delivery of this.
BRY

great!
Thanks!

Well said

Congratulations on your longevity, Kurt!  It is good that you understand we are not looking to make converts of the conservatives, we have the facts and will be prosecuting them.  Perhaps they should include in the museum “The War Prayer” http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/illuswarprayer.html

I have always enjoyed the writing of Mr. Vonnegut, and this speech brought to mind another great American thinker and writer...James Madison:
“It has been said, that any Country might be governed at the will of one, who had the exclusive privilege of furnishing its popular songs. The result would be far more certain from a monopoly of the politics of the press. “
James Madison to Nicholas P. Trist

Good grief. So “conservatives,î .. on Wall Street .. have stolen a major fraction of our private savings… “ Do you not understand how many liberals control major investment banks on Wall Street? Or that the bubbles in the stock market, dollar, and housing, were all created under Clinton? And began deflating before Bush took office? Or that Clinton bombed Sudan? I don’t excuse the current administration but it’s foolish to think the “conservatives” have some sort of lock on hypocrisy, self-interest, and greed.

Some friends tell me my writing is the best they’ve seen. Then I read missives by people like Mr. Vonnegut and that brings me back to reality.

Vonnegut, Twain, two of my all-time idols. I’d give my right arm to be able to sit down to dinner with them both at the same time. Why can’t we clone these guys instead of sheep and cats and alien babies?!?!?

I doubt they’d appreciate that. Neither one expressed enthusiasm about having been born in the first place. Perhaps that alone is proof of their sanity.

I have hope for my country when Vonnegut speaks and Twain and Lincoln both assist him from the grave.

Kurt is the man

Bravo! Mr. Vonnegut. I have been compulsively reading since the economy started hitting the skids 2 years ago. In all that time, the 2 commentaries that affected me the most were both written by you. Your critique of PP’s and your feelings of having been invaded by space creatures hit the perfect serio-comic homerun. Now, with this essay, I found myself actually crying while reading to a friend and was unable to finish. (Not fair, to quote Abraham Lincoln and you well know it!) He is our secular saint. Lincoln, Twain and Jesus! Not fair. (In fact, I think I’ll make that my new all-purpose exclaimation!) Please, please, please, keep fighting the good fight. 

May Bokono always be with you.  Thanks for being you, and for giving us a laugh and a hope in these most trying of times.  I sometimes think the generation now alive has been cursed with that most terrible of ancient Chinese curses: “May you live in interesting times.”

Not being a leftist ( I never remember hearing of IN THESE TIMES until today seeing a link to INT in Fiendís Super Bear Page <http://www.fiendbear.com/> and having in my youth read Vonnegut’s then corpus I got to read and chuckle at Vonnegut’s “speech” or should I say point of view--which is “no enemies to the left” and “all evil emanates from the right.” Vonnegut has forgotten nothing nor has he learned anything during his aging. He is a lost cause. There may be hope in a few of you younger commie lovers.
Some of you hard core reds should check out Fiendís Super Bear Page to see that ìconservativesî also are not all lock step with ìthe malefactors of great wealthî and those ìconservativesî who have and are raping the American economy as the American economy has actually been raped by the policies of Big Government ( mainly the result of Democrat administrations and Liberal Republicans ) with its Federal Reserve money creation, oppressive regulation, tax policies which are built on envy, a Judicial system out of control and a press that is and has been a cheering squad for the gradual increase of socialism since the Civil War if not before.
While at it check out Lew Rockwell dot Com <http://www.lewrockwell.com/> to see what the true right thinks as its motto is ANTI-STATE, ANTI-WAR, PRO-(free)MARKET

Mr. a. revenant (if that is your real name):

You are certainly fond of your labels and slogans. Why don’t you put some actual thought into your political rants, instead of feeding us a bunch of misinterpretations of other peoples’ ideas?

I’m particularly fond of your labeling everybody here as “commie lovers.” I, for one, don’t love communism. It puts too much stock in human nature, as does democracy. Nor am I a “leftist” or “rightist.” I’m just another shaved monkey with a superiority/inferiority complex like you.

While we’re in the business of recommending other peoples’ webpages, check out www.cia.gov Look into the FOIA archives, and read about the great things your adopted group - the right - has been up to with our tax money.

Also note George H. W. Bush’s threatening message at the bottom of his webpage, telling how he can find things out about you through your IP address, should you make the mistake of wanting to know more about him.

Have a great day,

Ben

Mr. Vonnegut,

I got side-tracked from science fiction into your weird books as a teen, have been warped ever since. Thanks.

Jon,

Our President bombs a restaurant in a neighborhood with families trying to kill one evil dictator, knowing that between a handful and a craterfull of innocent civilians will be killed. Then after Monday’s bombing in Saudi, Our President rants against the evil people who “kill innocents.” There’s a certain kind of blind stupid crazy evil in that. Especially in the assumption that the people who didn’t elect him to office are blind and stupid.

Crazy, bedbug, bullies. Yup. Conservatives also seem to whine and cry a lot when under attack. “Ouch, you liberals aren’t supposed to hit—I’m tellin’!”

Mr. Kurt Vonnegut,

You are a national treasure.  Thanks for the great article.  Thanks for your great lecture in Milwaukee I saw as a teen in the 80s.

And thanks most for your cameo in ‘Back to School’.  It’s one of my favorite movie moments and the line from the teacher who claims the author obviously knows nothing about Vonnegut is pure genius.

Peace,

Bud

re:î I, for one, don’t love communism. It puts too much stock in human nature, as does democracy.î by Ben from NYC

You may not love communism but worship it dressed in new clothing and fresh makeup but Leftism stinks as much as ever under any guise. As for democracy, it is as Aristotle taught: government under the rule of fools which always ends in Tyranny.

Be good, and you will be lonesome on this comment thread.

This is a sad time.

Where is our Lincoln today?

Where is someone willing to stand up to Bush the way that Lincoln stood up to Polk? I don’t see it. I don’t see any courage in the Democratic Party, and I weep.

Kurt Vonnegut is perhaps the finest writer this age has known.  I have followed his career for as long as I have been able to read, and his humor and insight have been a light which has guided me through many a dark times.  I only hope to one day meet and thank this man in person for all he’s done.

THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU!

a. revenant:

I agree - “leftism” stinks to high heaven. I’m sick to my guts of melodramatic hypocrites going around calling themselves “liberals.”

As far as communism goes, I have no idea what you mean by “worship it dressed in new clothing and fresh makeup” - is that some kind of infantile attempt at an attack on my sexuality? I don’t worship anything, for one thing. Second, I’ve said nothing remotely communist in any of my comments. Is that your favorite put-down or your imaginary boogey man?

And there you go again, subscribing to somebody else’s philosophy. Is it Aristotle this time? Wanna throw some Machiavelli and Sartre at me while you’re at it? All those old fuckers are dead, along with communism and democracy.

Grow up.

Best Wishes,

Ben

Mr V,

I started reading your novels when I was ill and laid up as a high schooler. My great fortune is to not have yet read them all.

Thank you for saying what we, the young, have been saying louder and louder every month, every day of this administration. Watching all these old guard so called “left wingers” lecture us on how we have to attack, attack, attack to spread democracy or prevent a nuclear war has made me sick to the stomach. Thanks for showing that having seen a bit more of history in person doesn’t have to harden the soul.

Thank you for saying it straight.

re:"Where is our Lincoln today?"byScott from Rhode Island.

The question is why the invincible ignorance on the left?

Lincoln is an ICON of being anti-war, of civil liberties, of restraint!!!

Lincoln made hay politically during his career wrapping himself up in the flag of his exploits in the Black Hawk War. He destroyed the Republic ìsaving itî in starting the Civil War. He jailed dissenters while President and ìexcusedî the Supreme Court for the duration of the War.

Learn your countryís history. Read:

Freedom Under Lincoln by Dean Sprague (Hardcover,1965)

When in the Course of Human Events by Charles Adams (Hardcover, Jan. 2000)

The Real Lincoln: A New Look at Abraham Lincoln, His Agenda, and an Unnecessary War
by Thomas J. Dilorenzo (Hardcover - March 2002)

We need a new Lincoln as much as Russia needs a new Stalin.

re:"As far as communism goes, I have no idea what you mean by ‘worship it dressed in new clothing and fresh makeup’ - is that some kind of infantile attempt at an attack on my sexuality?” by Ben from NYC.

It is a metaphor. Perhaps, you need a few English literature courses and less courses on feminism. Read Orwell who explains how the left constantly appropriates and changes language: as one face of the left loses favor as its policies bring devastation the forces of the left ìreinventî it over and over. Socialism becomes Progressivism becomes Liberalism becomes Green becomes New Democrat fill in the blanks yourself.

a. revenant:

Recommended reading....

Peer Pressure & Choices: How to Think for Yourself (In a World Where Everybody Wants to Do It for You)

Author:
Jennifer James

Publisher:
Do It Now Foundation

dear ben and jon,
i have an idea!  why don’t we all just waste our time having fictitious dick-measuring contests in cyberspace.  no one wants to think of “liberals” as posturing effetes, and no one wants to think of “conservatives” as defensive warmongers.  both of you.  get help with your self-esteem.  and you think Vonnegut actually reads this shit that we post?  r i g h t.

tun

but just in case…

Dear Mr. Vonnegut,
Haven’t lost a step, have you?  Still the man. 

tun

Boy, you really put us in OUR place!
Who said anything about Vonnegut reading anything here? Are YOU trying to score points with KV with your predictable penis-measuring reference?
Jon and I quit arguing long ago, so don’t pick on him. I’m the only one stupid enough to keep an open dialogue running here.
How’s your self-esteem doing, buddy?

Yeah, that’s it. Go and kiss his ass now. The naiive wit of imbeciles is always a pleasure.

To Mr. Vonnegut,

Last night, my 12-year-old daughter was looking for her copy of Slaughterhouse Five.  It was beside my bed, because I was reading it again.

I want you to know that some of the children (if you could call Molly a child; she’s never been a child, or normal, much to my chagrin and delight), the future generation, are committed to compassion, honesty, courage, and, most important of all, common sense.

The common sense that tells them that bullying behavior is counterproductive.  The common sense that tells them that amassing great quantities of stuff will not help them to acquire a soul, or even a reliable source of endorphins.  The common sense that tells them that fear and hatred are answered, many-fold, by destruction and tragedy.

I’m delighted that you are 80 years old, because so many people whom we desperately need to fight for us die early on in the fight.  My grandmother will be 90 next month, and given her general attitude, she will be here ten years from now.

So you see, you have a great future before you.  And even if you don’t make a century, my daughter’s and her friends’ respect and delight in your writing and the lasting truth of it will guarantee you immortality, whether you want it or not.

Thank you for making those of us who live in Texas and in the South feel so much less alone.  Through the Civil Rights Movement, and the Vietnam War, and too many outrages committed by our government to count, your writing has given me and others like me this assurance:

Be good, and you will be lonesome most places, but not here, not here.

With enduring gratitude,

Beth Moore Henry

Thanks Mr. Vonnegut for all you have given the free-thinkers of the world. We need your writing now more than ever. What the world needs now is another Kurt Vonnegut novel!! 

Kurt, as always remains one of the few lights which seem to be shining out of the US at present, some solace for the future perhaps, perhaps he can be cloned for future use and an army of him brought to bear against the evil bastards which have stolen the reins to your nation, a victory for common sense over pure unadulterated greed. It’s a chilling thing to watch from the outside knowing that the lunatics have well and truely taken over the asylum and the whims of these razor edged hustlers affect every man, woman and child on the planet, not to mention what’s left of our environment. I watched 1984 yesterday evening, it’s arguments become more compleling put into today’s “newspeak” and replacing Big Brother’s inner party with today’s usual suspects.
A nation voyoristically watching it’s own demise at the hands of quite possibly the worst case senario.

“Television is now our form of government.... Smile, America, you’re on Candid Camera.” Elegant, brilliant, oh so true. Thanks Kurt.

Mr. V makes a common error when he attempts to put the blame on “conservatives”.  The sorry excuses running this show are “neo-Cons”.  True Conservatives are as sickened by this War and this administration as any Liberal.  By the way, Mr. V should find another example besides Lincoln.  This country has never seen such a manipulative S.O.B. as him.  It was his war that killed over 600,000 Americans.  It was his administration that changed the direction of this country, and put us on the path that led to the “Liberation of Iraq”.  He quotes Lincoln on 1848.  That was the same year that Lincoln made a speech affirming the right of Secession.  Remember, there is a straight line from Lincoln to the attempted genocide of the Plains Indians, where the Army tried their best to exterminate every man, woman, and child, to the Phillipines of which Twain rightly laments, to our involvement in WW1, to the lies that propelled us into WW11, to Dresden, to the dropping of the first nuclear bombs[on civilian populations], to the lies [Tonkin Gulf] that sent us into another war, where, again, we made war on civilians, to Iraq, Kosovo, Afghanistan, etc., where once again we either target civilians, or we prosecute the war without regard to civilians.  The concept and practice of modern TOTAL WAR began with Lincoln and his supporters and generals.  Other Countries cannot seem to understand that when it comes to killing people in war, NOBODY is better at it than the U.S.
Also, I believe that too much is made of Conservative vs. Liberal and Republican vs. Democrat.  When either of them are in power there are the same:  CORRUPT!  And the rest of us are just in the way.

Yikes!  Lumping Abraham Lincoln in with Mark Twain was sufficiently blasphemous--did you have to throw Jesus into the mix?  Lincoln may well have been “heartbroken and humiliated” by the war on Mexico in 1848, but no such sentimentality impeded his dealings with the C.S.A., which, like Mexico, “had never attacked us.” Yes, of course, every schoolboy knows Lincoln waged his war to uplift Southron society.  Every schoolboy is wrong (for Lincoln’s reasons for the war, see his August 22, 1862 letter to Horace Greeley).  More than this:  Aside from self-defense, no ends can justify such horrific means.  Father Abraham may not have been the Father of Collateral Damage, but he certainly gave it a moral cachet from which we have yet to recover. 

Yikes!  Lumping Abraham Lincoln in with Mark Twain was sufficiently blasphemous--did you have to throw Jesus into the mix?  Lincoln may well have been “heartbroken and humiliated” by the war on Mexico in 1848, but no such sentimentality impeded his dealings with the C.S.A., which, like Mexico, “had never attacked us.” Yes, of course, every schoolboy knows Lincoln waged his war to uplift Southron society.  Every schoolboy is wrong (for Lincoln’s reasons for the war, see his August 22, 1862 letter to Horace Greeley).  More than this:  Aside from self-defense, no ends can justify such horrific means.  Father Abraham may not have been the Father of Collateral Damage, but he certainly gave it a moral cachet from which we have yet to recover. 

Vonnegut is excellent, as always.  An old fighter for the good--like Sam Clemens--he knows how to put the spotlight on bad people. 

All your years of writing fiction and glorifing psychological misfits fits perfectly with your idolation of Lincoln and quoting him as anything but a murderer of his own countymen is indeed fiction.

Mr. Vonnegut, I have been reading your books consistently since I was 13, and at 20, I am sad to learn I have no more published work of yours to read. You are with out a doubt, one of my favorite, most profound authors of my day, and you have truly changed, and inspired my life!! It such an honor to say that I live on the world with you, that I go to school where your brother once taught, and I live so close to where you once did your thing, in that magical town of Schenectady. I ask you to please not listen to what the idiots who condemn you say, they don’t know, they are just children of NBC, CNN, etc. and are unable to grasp the simply concept that simply because we are the richest, most powerful country, that doesnít necessarily make us, or our government inherently ëgoodí. You are the best living American Author of today, and you would share this centuryís ‘top author crown’ (a prize awarded by me) with only John Steinbeck.  Your article, is, as expected, insightfully brilliant, and shows a complex and intelligent understanding of the world, and the country we live in.  I hope one day to have the privilege of shaking your hand, but until that day comes, suffice to say keep up the good work, you are an inspiration to us all, you have done so much good for this country and this planet by sharing your works with us, you have made yourself immortal, as I am sure myself and countless fans will share your work with our childrenÖ

Mr. Vonnegut,
Were it not for your clarity of thought and word, I would be much lonelier. To quote W.C. Fields, “thanks a thousand times.”

Rip Rense
www.riprense.com

Jon,

If you’re still reading this (I don’t know why you’d waste your time in such a manner - as I do - but just in case), I owe you an apology.

I accused you of wanting to start a fight, and the blame for that clearly lies in my hands. 

I’m also sorry for the patronizing and sarcastic tone I took - the gut, emotional response, isn’t always the best thought-out response.

I’ve also said I didn’t care to know what you think, and that isn’t true.  You’re obviously an open-minded conservative, if you read this publication, and I’m really grateful that you do, and that you are willing to engage in discussions in this booby-trapped forum.

Mr. Vonnegut, I’d also like to apologize to you for using your “Reader Comments” section to bully people that make themselves easy targets.

May you both be well.

-Ben

lol, you know, maybe it’s just me, but does “Mr. Vonnegut, after reading all your books in 3 short years, all of which spread over my high school career, it is hard to find anything worth reading.” by Franco (see above) sound right? To me it sounds like he doesn’t quite like Mr. V. all that much.

Before anyone jumps on me, I know he meant it as a compliment. It’s just funny is all. The other high schooler had a similar quote that could be read that way, too.

Anyway, to the main point, I still believe that, leftist or rightist, we’re all just children quaking in the scary night with the blankets pulled up over our heads. We’re all just people trying to make good in bad situations. Yeah, people make mistakes. Yeah, bad things happen. And, you know what? One person’s “good thing” is another person’s “atrocity.” There simply is no pleasing EVERYbody. So, you got to make good with what you can.

It really does no good pointing fingers at warmonger rightist or commie leftist, but, on the whole, I’m content with my country. I don’t like what Bush is doing, but that’s not because he’s a righty. It’s because he’s just not good for the job. As I remember, the first thing he did as President was tour Europe & piss every off by annoucing the US will not sign the Kyoto Protocol. Let’s face it, the guy was aiming for a war on some front. I really ought to thank him (a “rightist” who so perfectly falls into the “warmonger” title). He actually convinced me to vote in the coming election.

As for the US gov, anyone who doesn’t like it can either do something about it like the good Mr. Locke said to do, or get out. It’s that simple, no one MAKES anyone live in the US. There’s a possibility I’m wrong about that. It is my understanding slavery was outlawed.

On a side note, I just love how the US is taking flak for moving on Iraq unilaterally in the west, & taking flak in the east for moving on N. Korea multilaterally. <sigh> Such a great time to be an American. We’re so loved!

Maybe we should have two Presidents, at least when a Bush is involved (they don’t seem very capable at mutlitasking), one Domestic Affairs President, & one Foreign Affairs President.

Well, that’s it for me. I wonder what labels you guys have for me now. I’m looking forward to replies.

We are being too easy on the conservatives!

It’s hard for us foreigners ("aliens" in Amerispeak) to understand the ever-widening gulf between american liberals and conservatives.  The level of invective in your discourse is truly stunning. It seems that your conservatives are notable because they refuse to conserve.  Right wingers then deride liberals as communists because they demand the liberties that are laid out in your constitution.  So you’ll fight and kill for the constitution, just don’t dare use it to actually demand any individual rights.  And when it’s time to go kill a bunch of foreigners, don’t dare to criticize the war because it’s your constitutional liberties that are being defended, and actually using these liberties might screw up the slaughter.  Ooops better not say too much or congress will trump up another trade dispute with my country to “punish” us for our disloyalty.  So I guess I’ll close by saying that we really love you guys, please keep your troops at home!

Don’t mean to shock you but those of us on the Far Right couldn’t be more distraught or horrified by this war or its concomitant drain on our economy at a time when we need every dollar within our borders. To call Bush, his ZioNazi masters or the FoxNews-inhaling rabble ‘conservatives’....well, you hear that rapping sound? That’s Edmund Burke, banging furiously on his coffin lid in protest.

I’ve read a half-dozen Vonnegut novels and could never warm up to his style....a gooey hybrid of John Updike, John Cheever and Dr Seuss, only not so good as any of them. (Vonnegut’s one of an increasingly rare species - the Celebrity Writer with critical cachet - and it’s funny how you can tell that by reading his most sycophantic admirers. They defend him the way a grown man holding a plastic light-saber in public might defend George Lucas.) He makes his points here, clumsily, in his usual hey-lookit-me style. They’ve been made, more forcefully and memorably, by others. I could’ve done without the umpteenth reference to Bernie and the silver iodide, too.

An ineffectual nice-try is how I’d categorize this address. Ho hum.

Thank you for this story. To paraphrase a famous line, the United States will never know peace until a poet becomes president.

Mr. Vonnegut,
In these dark times, i thank the Great Spirit for minds such as yours.  You are a genius at 80, and i hope you will be at 100.  Peace and regards to you and yours.

ceg, Monsieur/Madame “Je Me Souviens,” Pardon me while I switch from “Freedom-Speak” to Amerispeak, or, even worse, English - the true language of Evil, if there ever was one. Thanks for telling us what we dare and don’t dare do, you ignorant, self-satisfied Voice Of Reason. Kindly print out your little witty comments, roll them up, and shove them up your ass. That is if you head isn’t still in the way. You are as much a part of the problem with the US as is anybody else here. Did you or did you not hear your Prime Minister on the radio, grasping for the bilingual words to say he doesn’t have any more guts to stand up to the idiots who’ve hijacked the country, the world, than we do. Maybe your tenth high school reunion didn’t start off with a memorial service for the “Brave Heroes” in your class (40 was when I stopped counting mine) who died as we all felt the end of the world approaching on that terrible September morning. Maybe Rue St. Laurent or the Old City isn’t being patrolled by teenagers with machine guns. Our city is. We had to endure the stench of burning sewage, plastic, people, and god-knows-what-else for over a hundred days, only to see opportunists come along and use it as an excuse to kill a whole bunch of people for Halliburton Oil, while the Patriot Act threatens to arrest us without cause or warrant. Yup, you’ve got us all pegged. A bunch of cowards who love the slaughter of foreigners. 

What a load of bovine waste material.  He has the audacity to praise Lincoln who was the founding father of big government and was responible for the slaughter of more US citizens than all other presidents combined.  It is a travesty to speak of Clemens and Lincoln in like manner, or compare them in any way.

The author asks what made Mexico so evil, I would ask what made the Carolina’s or Georgia so evil that Lincoln would murder and destroy so many?

I LOVE YOU, KURT.

Haha-

I love the recent gang up on Lincoln on this thread.

And no, not every school boy was taught Lincoln did what he did ‘to uplift Southron(sp) society.’ A decade ago I was a schoolboy. Raised in the south, I was always told by my teachers and peers that ‘The war of Northern Aggression’ was about ‘Staytes Raahts’ and despicable Yankees.

Maybe when y’all are done deifying Jeff Davis and putting swastikas on your state capital domes, perhaps you can take a trip to the Potomac, stand below the footsteps of Lincoln’s edifice, read his marble prophecy & legacy (2nd Inaugural Address/Gettysburg.) Then kindly take a dozen steps towards the rising sun, stand where the greatest Southern leader of all time gave the most important sermon in the 20th century. At that point you should stop to consider the promise Thomas Jefferson made to all of his children, and the fact that it took Lincoln and 1.4 million dead Americans to begin to oblige that promise. A promise that to this day remains unfulfilled.

Perhaps your ‘heritage’ causes you to view Sherman’s March in Georgia in the same light as Panzers racing through Europe. If you must look through that prism, perhaps you can reflect on the fact that Andersonville, GA can be viewed in the same light as Aushwitz.

Heritage is not hate, provided the celebrant remembers the ghosts of the corpses swinging from the trees, that he doesn’t use symbols of hate for craven political purposes (ahem Sonny Pur-who?) and the person acknowledges that some very very ugly things happened in the past; things worth celebrating, and others simply not forgetting.

Some people should have listened more closely to Gen. Longstreet.

Excellent post, Mr Vonnegut. I’d like to thank you for your very existance.

80 years old and he still can’t pass a piss test. Something to be proud of. As long as there are ignorant 15 to 20 year olds around, he will make sense. 

Kurt Vonnegut can say the most profound things so simply, so perfectly, that reading other writers after him is like doing Latin translation. It’s interesting, but still a dead language. 

Mr. Vonnegut,

I first read Breakfast of Champions when I was 12 years old.  I have been a big fan ever since. ìMother Night,î ìPlayer Piano,î and ìSlaughter House Fiveî remain among my all time favorite books.  (I also thought that Keith Gordonís rendition of ìMother Nightî was quite well done; how about you?)

Your essay has left me feeling as if I have pleurisy of the heart.  My entire body feels weighed down by the truth behind your words.  When I read Margaret Atwoodís ìA Handmaidenís Taleî I felt a similar feeling.  Now I am seeing her novel actualized.  I fully expect my head to be on a stake at the city gates before much longer.  Maybe Iíll see you there. 

Wow!  Kurt Vonnegut continues to amaze and astound!

Ed

No apology necessary, Ben. I opened myself up to criticism and got it, some of it perhaps deservedly. I’d be happy to discuss philosophy with you in an appropriate forum, but this ever lengthening mishmash of comments is probably not the right place.

Thanks to those who welcome my presence, my apologies to those who don’t.

And I never said Mr. Vonnegut was “bad”. I just can’t believe ad hominem attacks on entire groups of people can do much to improve anything. Left, right, radical or reactionary, no particular philosophy has a lock on the absolute truth, and evil finds a ready home in many places, not just in the hearts of “neocons”, as many here would believe.

Jon, and other “conservatives”.  It’s not a matter of conservatism v. liberalism, it’s all about economics with General George Bush.  I spent 16 years in school including several courses in mathematics and economics and I still can’t find that chapter in any book that explains the math behind a humungous tax cut coupled with deficit spending.  I must have missed class the day this was taught.  What I do know is that President Bush will likely do the same thing that Reagan did with his “trickle down economics”, and that is to bring the country on the verge of bankruptcy while filling his cronies’ pockets with silver.  My father always said that a prerequisite to be President out to the requirement that the person held a job or made a profit in business along the way.  But, we must keep in mind that George Bush is a great advocate for that downtrodden element of our society most in need of his help---the rich.

Jon,

Thanks. Evil does indeed find its home in many places. Within ourselves and within those who feel that God is on their side. In particular within those who feel their clique is fighting “the good fight.”

To have a fight implies the intention that you want somebody to lose. But, if there’s anything to be learned from this sloppy mess of arguments, it’s that Evil, God, and these cliques are whatever we all find convenient to imagine them, to make us feel like we’re not on the wrong side. I desperately hope that neither of us are, because things are bad enough in the world as it is.

I hope you are well, and I too would enjoy conversing with you elsewhere. Perhaps in a forum of your choice?

Best Regards,

Ben

To Jon,

The slings & arrows thrown at liberal thinkers have come relentlessly, frequently and from the highest shouting platforms in America. Yet you blather to this website, advertised practically nowhere, to claim your day was darkened.  Well boo fricken hoo, Mr. Jon. Your point of view is backed by my money.  It is backed by bombs, bombs and more bombs that darkened the day for the entire world with the exception of a pukalani (hole in the sky) over America. Real death, slaughter and unimaginable criminality on the part of our country has darkened our day. Yet you have the unmittigated gall to whine about your “darkened” day because of what Kurt Vonnegurt spoke. Either your threshold for dark days are extremely low or you are being as dishonest as the Bush lemmings dictate you must.  Take you pick.

Knew Bernie Vonnugut when I worked at Arthur D. Little, Inc., Cambridge, MA back in the early 50s.

He also believed that static charges created rain and on cloudy days would get on the roof and operate a static generator.

When I was a Patent Examiner I looked up his patents. One was to concentrate weather baloons with metal wires over an area about one mile square. The concept was to produce static charges on the clouds and cause rain.

Gilbert Wells, Sintra, Portual

After hearing your “President” talk for five minutes, suddenly Caligula appointing a horse as his consul doesn’t seem quite so odd.

There is a woman who comes to our prayer meetings.  We’re in a bit of crisis over her.  She is clearly mad, and fantastically disruptive. She claims to be tormented by demons, yet will turn around and lecture everyone in spirituality.  We hate to eject her, (it seeming not what Christ would do) but she blasphemes beliefs we hold dear as Catholics.  She needs heavy drugs, but more likely an exorcism.  She rambles on about needing to go to Iran to teach the people how evil George Bush is (as if there was no-one in Iran willing to do so.)
Yet compared to this great author, she is coherent, charitable, expert and peaceful.
What’s amazing is Mr. Vonnegut has nothing to say, no insight whatsoever, except blind, ranting hatred.  He simply ascribes evil to hs enemies. Yes, there are many on the right guilty of this to some degrees (Rush Limbaugh, Ollie North), but shouldn’t any decent author have enough insight into humanity as to be repulsed by this?  If he pretends madness to suggest a genius hidden beneath, he doesn’t fool me.  From his works, he knows better than to engage in this.  Some friend needs to give him an “intervention,” as they say in 12-step circles.

Each weapon costs a hundred high schools? Wow, for a million dollar cruise missle you could get a $10,000 high school! Imagine that! No wonder you liberals cannot do math. You went to a high school in a trailer with no teachers.

I am one of those evil, scary conservatives that Vonnegut is laughably, uh, I mean, bravely denouncing.

We are the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy!  Look on our works, ye bed-wetting lefties, and despair!

We are legion, while you are--yet again--on the wrong side of history.  (Don’t you ever get tired of that?)

In the words of one of those Soviets y’all were so fond of, we will bury you.  With extreme prejudice.

But you’ll always have Kurt Vonnegut and that unshakeable sense of your own moral and intellectual superiority.

Bush rocks.  Try again in 2008.  Thanks for playing.

Mr. Vonnegut has clearly slipped into dimentia and paranoia, and mentioning him in the same breath as Mark Twain is an insult to Mark Twain.  Responding to Mr. Vonnegut’s contention that America is imperialist is a pointless endeavor, considering that he and those who bite at that worm have the noose of their ideology so tight around their neck that a pragmatic thought cannot penetrate.  Such polarizing statements, such as Vonnegut’s, have rendered rational debate impossible, turning the participants into either flaming pinkos or heartless fascists.  It makes me, as Twain wrote in ‘Connecticut Yankee...’ that ‘sometimes I’d like to hang the whole human race and finish the farce.’

There is no need for hanging - we’ll all be dead soon enough. Maybe sooner than we expect. If only that would finish the farce, I’d gladly find a way of providing you with rope. Would you like to go first, to prove your sincerity? There’s a nice tree I passed this morning that would be just perfect. Again, I’d gladly supply you with rope.

Vonnegut asks who are these conservatives?  Well, I ask: Who is Kurt Vonnegut?  For 10 months in 1978-79 I lived in Moscow doing research on a doctoral dissertation on Soviet economic history.  I lived for a while at Moscow State University.  It would be hard for any American, even the poorest among us, to bear the drabness and dreariness (and the cockroaches) of life under socialism, even at that elite institution of Soviet higher education.  Except for one day, when I returned from doing research at the Lenin Library to find the university transformed--piles of fresh fruit and soft drinks unseen since I left Chicago were piled on linen covered tables inside the entrance to the main building, foreign books “for sale,” and notices of foreign films to be screened, banners, posters.  The whole scene was of an almost-normal university campus.  The reason for this Potemkin Village “pokazka” (Russian for “spectacle")?  A visit by a group of fellow-traveler writers from the West led by none other than Kurt Vonnegut.  The next day Vonnegut left and the press was full of Vonnegut’s progressive homilies.  But there was no fresh fruit, no more books, and no more films.  Who is Kurt Vonnegut?  A liberal fascist creep if you ask me, a man who in one day did so much to demoralize so many Russians I knew who hoped someday to enjoy the freedoms I would soon be going back home to.  It made me sick. I have hated him ever since.  And yes, I’m proud to be a conservative.

Ha!

This was a good laugh for the morning. It wasn’t for Mr. Vonnegut’s “light humor,” though. It was for his utter stupidity. It looks like Mr. Vonnegut really is suffering from dementia these days.

What’s even funnier is how many people slobber over his thoughts. All the “thank yous” and “you rocks” really make me laugh at the idiocy of his admirers.

This screed by Mr. Vonnegut just reinforces some of my own perceptions:
1. Mr. Vonnegut is a talentless hack. I disliked the stuff I was made to read of his in school, and he isn’t any better, different, or more knowledgable now.
2. Fiction writers, Vonnegut included, are often self-deluded, self-aggrandizing, self-absorbed parasites on the societies that spawned them.
3. The pretentious sh*ts that idolize writers piss me off.

Whew. That’s enough spew for this morning. If anyone is wondering, I *am* a writer which, to me, gives me further evidence of my second point above. 

When I was a teenager I read Vonnegut and thought Iíd discover a great teller of cosmic truths. It wasnít until years later that I realized the reason I had liked Vonnegut so much was that he and had I shared the same naÔve and sophomoric worldview. I was a kid then, so at least I had an excuse.
Vonnegut has written some good novels and short stories but the fact that his political views are so appealing to children should tell us all something. I think he confirms to every teenager who reads him that all of human history has been nothing but a conspiracy to ruin his or her life.
Folks, Vonnegutísí comments are not profound, they are incoherent. Iím sure that Mr. Vonnegut is a nice man but he does not know what he is talking about.
Iím surprised that people are still paying him to trot out his ancient shtick. I think he had already been using these lines for twenty years when I first read him in 1980.
I read ìBluebeardî a few years ago. It was OK. At least it had a happy ending

Kurt V., Norman Mailer, Gore Vidal these upper west side latte liberals seem to be popping up like zombies in Night of the Living Dead.  Look, you had your chance to fix the world’s problems and secular humanism and freudian psychoanalysis didn’t work out on the Osamas and Saddams of the world.  You can go on bleating and whining, just step to the side so the the 3rd ID can get through and rain holy hell on the people who would kill us.  I used to love KV’s work but then something happened, I grew up!  Nobody in their right mind likes war, but I’m afraid the world has certain people in it that will respond to nothing else.  For some reason the left understood this with Milosovic but not with Saddam. 

TJ

You hit the nail on the head. Liberals seem to fit the definition of insanity as doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Keep appeasing dictators, maybe one day it will work.
Big government the answer to all our problems? Sure, it worked in the USSR.

It is funny to read these comments!!  You know, the problem with vast swatches of today’s left (a generic term but you know who you are, and you know what I mean) is that you are totally humourless.  Even your bitter exchanges with “conservatives” are totally drenched with smamry sweetness (see: “Ben"--totally pretentious).  Why don’t you just duke it out with a little humour and wit?  Make it fun for the rest of us to read your ideas?
Ben!?  An attack on your sexuality?  I have to laugh.

How old are you?  No, seriously?  I’m thinking… college sophomore (you know from whence we get “sophomoric”, from the Greek “wise fool”?)

I am a highschool teacher and my students understand arguments better than that. 

So, in closing...enough with this phony (as Holden would say) molasses coated Dowdieness and faux intellectualism it is truly dull.  Dullness, just another symptom of today’s left....snooze.

One of the idiotarians needs to tell Emperor Vonnegut that he is wearing no clothes.  What a sh*tpile of incoherent drivel.  Sigh, sadly you can’t fix stupid.

Now that so-called Communism has been crushed and Capitalism holds sway over the world, it’s about time to start asking for the wonderful dream it promised.  Unfortunately, we now have, “fundamentalist Islamic terrorists”, that we have to spend our taxdollars on and have to wait, “indefinitely”, for Capitalism to come into it’s own, I’m sure.  But then, what is Capitalism but the other side of the coin of dialectical economics?  Are so few people aware enough to realize their money is now worth about half of what it was when Communism, “fell”?  Does no one recognize the state of decay and shoddiness of the products we buy?  Are any prices of basic necessities such as food, health care, housing, education going down?  If you understand what’s going on out there; if you go buy a home for a quarter of a million dollars built in 1963 when it was sold for 15 thousand and think everything is just dandy and the American Dream is still a viable concept...you really don’t understand Capitalism at all.  At least not the way it’s been practiced for the last hundred or so years.  What you fail to realize is that ANY economic system, when coupled with a tyrannical and corrupt heirarchy is basically a means of impoverishing the great populace at the expense of the psychotic avaricious few.  Capitalism works far better at promoting this sort of thing, not that Communism, Socialism, or any other, “ism”, are just as untenable so long as secret cabals of self-appointed demi-gods are able to manipulate agendas.  But take a look at the world now, after more than a decade of Capitalist tyranny.  Are the great masses of people getting their money’s worth of anything?  No.  What you see instead, is, dehumanization and an ever growing gulf between the haves and have nots.  The rhetoric from all sides is but a diaphanous veil of propaganda attempting to sucker the true believers, like some contributors to this site, that what they see with their own eyes and feel with their own souls is not the way it really is.  Believe whomever or whatever you wish.  Next time you look at your credit card statement or make a purchase, try remembering all of this and then try and tell it to the Marines.

Correction: I meant to add: state of decay of our deteriorating infrastructure and it’s dialectical materialism rather than economics as being two sides of the same coin which, through the heirarchical systems of governance used to impliment them, as it would with ANY economic system...lead ineluctably to tyranny.

Dom, Dom Dom. You said: Now that so-called Communism has been crushed and Capitalism holds sway over the world, it’s about time to start asking for the wonderful dream it promised.

The wonderful dreams were promised by communism, not by capitalism. All we capitalists want is private ownership and competition, we never promised you a rose garden.

As he always said - “...and so it goes...” Thank (God) someone for the continuing presence of this thinker/speaker/writer - still alive - thank ---.

Kyle- I suppose you fail to see the irony in your calling someone else’s writing pretentious. I love that.

Dom- So what would you have? Chomsky inspired anarchy? A nice theoretical exercise, but totally unrealistic. Should we not prefer to work with what we have, encourage those we know to educate themselves on the issues and participate in the process? 

Kyle Gladden: Further fuel to the old adage, “Those who can’t do teach.” How old am I? Probably older than you. And thanks for that quote from a glorified pedophile whose pretentions of insight and spirituality are rediculously offensive snippets of garbled, dumbed-down Eastern philosophy. How old are you? 16? Still stuck on “The Catcher in the Rye?” It’s a sad thing that there’s a whole class of high school students being led by a mindless, emotionally-stunted twat. Assasinated anybody lately?

Kyle,

I just can’t resist… The temptation to argue with you, if you can call it that, or at least to return your insults is overwhelming.

I’m sorry, was that an argument I was supposed to be understanding there? I thought it was some of the best humor yet! A staunch “conservative” telling me to go and get a “Liberal Arts” education.

Mr. Book-of-the-Month is of the opinion that reading a book is the equivalent of having written it.

Where’s your humor and wit, Kyle? All I see is a self-congradulatory attempt at being Superior.

Tell us all some good jokes, Kyle. Show us more words you know. How about “pedarast” or “simpleton?”

God Bless You Mr. Vonnegut!

Ben!!

That’s way better!!  Fun, straightforward fiesty… ( although I think perhaps insinuating that because I teach The Catcher in the Rye seeing as it is required of me to do so must mean that I molest my students or attempt to assasinate people is a bit much and a little mean spirited) But keep it up!

Ben

I wanted to respond again because you got to go twice.

So, what other words did you need to know, or want explained to you?  I’ll give it a shot.

Ooh, go to www.Webster.com there is an online dictionary AND thesaurus!!

Kyle,

I’m glad my being mean has made you so happy. What a strange position you take here by saying words spoken in anger, or in response to anger, are better?

Yeah, you can see I’m an angry SOB and it’s easy to push my buttons, so we should be best friends by now. One problem, though - I don’t like you.

I’ve read comments on many columns and opinion
pieces, and find that their most interesting aspect is the variety and
weight of the baggage the writers labor under, and how those emotional
compulsions dictate the writers’ interpretation of and response to that
which they comment on.  No one in any of these pieces took specific issue
with (or discussed) isolated points in Vonnegut’s commentary.  All lauded
him generally (in the broadest manner, and well-deserved in my opinion) or
dismissed him utterly (often in the most vulgar ad homonym manner).  All
comment with great emotion.  Vonnegut’s emotion (though certainly there) is
miles beneath the surface.  His work is a collection of illuminated facts,
truths and opinions, stated simply, clearly, and, often, hilariously.  The
degree of vituperation his work elicits is disproportional to its surface
content (which is mild and rational), and even to its logical philosophic
extension and conclusions (in summary, all people should be Christ-like but
none are).  Disregarding those commentators who obviously lack the
intellectual skills to understand Vonnegut (who betray themselves with
misspellings and bad grammar), the remaining critical crew HATE Vonnegut’s
message with bewildering vehemence.  It seems to challenge their world view
in some fundamental way.  They may not believe that people have an
intellectual obligation to deal with one another fairly, charitably and
honorably.  They may believe with evangelical intensity that it is okay to
prey on others’ weaknesses and reduced condition to order to accumulate
personal wealth and power, and react to exhortations to kindness and
sensitivity as Dracula reacts to a crucifix.  I suppose this is the essence
of unalloyed competition, business without morality. 

(Cont’d.) The church was once
the dispenser of moral caution to business (with some degree of success, one
hopes), and various legal institutions the dispensers of punishment to
businessmen and businesses who/that violated classic moral codes.  The
church, though as large as ever, now seems to have migrated to a fundraising
role that trades on believers’ unfocused fear (everything from fear of an
increasingly complex society, fear of disease, fear of drugs, fear of the
general unknown, in short childish fears) to amass wealth and power.  In
short, the churches have become businesses selling solace (and, at Fall
Clearance Sales, promises of everlasting happiness) to the masses at
whatever price the market will bear (maybe they always were such businesses,
but television has clarified the crassness of the transaction, as television
always does).  This leaves the only the laws, and laws are anathema to the
free competition thinker, as to the bully.  Laws protect the weak, and check
the strong.  They stop the rapist preying on women, the con man preying on
the gullible, the politician preying on the disempowered, the bully preying
on the weak.  Those who would be bullies, con men, rapists and politicians
hate the laws, for without the laws (or without the popular will to enforce
the laws), such men become the tsars, the rulers, the kings, the capos, the
generals, the lords of all they survey.  This is why democracy is so very
hateful to Bush and his gang.  A democracy is a crazy-quilt of ideas,
institutions and procedures assembled to ensure that laws written to
institute the finest moral thought are enforced and remain paramount, and
that such imperious men and their ideas are checked or smothered. 

(Cont’d.) This is
why Bush is disassembling democracy --it’s in his way.  But back to these
angry commentators.  They believe the individual is paramount, that laws to
protect the weaker (such as taxes, anti-trust rules, prohibitions on using
political power to amass personal wealth, and the like) are dead wrong and
violate what is at the core of human nature.  Ask them.  They’ll admit it. 
They applaud the beast within, and think it should be given free rein. 
Ultimately, I suppose, all questions central to humanity boil down to this
eternal death-struggle between that most delicate human intellectual
construct—that decency, equality and respect must be paramount—and the
most adamantine and brutish human compulsion—raw imposition of individual
will and desire.  That these forces are always at war within each of us
would be classically tragic, if it weren’t so hilariously ironic.  We alone
of all sentient creatures possess the tools to understand our innate
brutality, but not the emotional will to overcome it.

Kirk
“They applaud the beast within, and think it should be given free rein.”

This better describes so called liberals who think that the 60’s brought only freedom and good. If it feels good, do it.
Gotta fight that repression. Don’t trust anyone over 30.

Kirk: that laws to
protect the weaker (such as taxes, anti-trust rules,

Taxes protect the weaker? That’s a good one.
As far as anti-trust, I feel much safer now that Microsoft was put through the ringer. Too bad all those working class people with Microsoft stock in their 401K’s had to take it in the shorts.
Well, I guess to make an omelet you have to break some eggs.

I find it amusing that the “conservatives” in the crowd never bless us with an e mail address.  I also find it amusing that “conservatives” never conserve ANYTHING.  We now have a “conservative” dictator (no, he didn’t win the election-his brother bought him that) who thumbs his nose at the world, defies the U.N., beats up on the snotty nosed playground kid (Iraq, repubblikkans) whilst turning his back on the big, mean bully with the third largest armed forces in the world (N. Korea, repubblikkans), and ruining our economic infrastructure.  Now, he’s after oil in our last, greatest unspoiled haven.  He’s the antichrist.  Wake up, America!

As far as I can tell, Kirk seems to think that America and private business intend to harm all of the people who fall under business’s sphere of influence. Using this reasoning, the best places to live would be countries that have very few business dealings with America , such as Myanmar or Zimbabwe. On the other hand, the countries that are most exploited by American business are Canada, Germany, Japan, etc…

Similarly, Mr Vonneguts analysis of the Mexican American War fails to address whether California and other western states are better off as part of the U.S. rather than Mexico, which had its own Civil War, was successfully invaded by France, had a 20th century revolution, and then was ruled by a one-party political system for most of the last century. 

Our heads are round so our thinking can change direction—Francis Picabia.

I’ve found, since 9/11, the above quote more instructive to the world than having stuck to my prior self-delusional Leftist knee-jerkiness.

I’ve read many of Vonnegut’s books several times but couldn’t finish this document for my eyes were sore from rolling. Over and over.

He’s the ANTICHRIST!!!
No, wait, he’s HITLER!!!
Or no, he’s POL POT!!!
Nevermind, he’s SATAN HIMSELF!!!

LOL!!!